#25 Becky and Jo
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Do you remember?
Do you remember when you
remember?
Do you remember when you once told me that your we were talking about the blues?
Because you like you were saying how you love the blues?
You know what?
You're just making shit.
No, I'm not.
You said that you really.
You're making shit.
No, you said you love the blues and then you told me that
I said, oh, who's your favorite blues musician?
And you said, Jim Belushi.
I said, Really?
There's so many great, like, blues.
You're such an idiot.
Oh, my God.
From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight.
Today's episode: Becky and Joe.
LA.
All around me cinematic landmarks, the Chinese theater, Hollywood Boulevard, Sunset Boulevard, Sunsets, the Pacific Ocean, Tony Shaloub, the Observatory from Rebel Without a Cause, and the Hollywood sign from the Entourage movie.
Fun fact, LA is what industry insiders call Los Angeles.
Hey, Becky.
I'm in Los Angeles to see Becky.
She grew up here.
Her parents work in the film biz.
They're producers of movies that, if I named, you'd say, I know that movie.
What a nice place.
Becky gives me a tour of the nice place, which happens to be her mom's place, because it is a quiet place.
A good place to talk.
It's so great the way that all the rooms just connect one to the other.
Yeah.
One to the other.
I'm in Hollyweird, all right.
There are windows, too, overlooking a yard.
Oh my god.
Are those oranges?
Yes.
The California dream.
You just like open up the window in the kitchen to fuck out.
On the wall hangs a painting of a boat.
On the coffee table sits a pipe.
Does your mom smoke a pipe?
No.
Just a conversation piece, but worth every penny.
Because as the tour draws to an end, the conversation begins.
The story all started, Becky says, a few months ago while dining at an Italian restaurant with her parents and older sister Joe.
We were at my birthday dinner.
My whole family was there, mom, dad.
Becky's mom and dad are divorced, so the whole family rarely gets together.
Like my parents, they're cordial, but like it's really birthdays.
Their chit-chat proceeded along in that way family restaurant discussions often do.
A lot of remember that person, remember this thing, remember that thing, this person was supposed to return, but never did, and now we don't have that thing or know that person.
It was in this way that Becky came to mention someone the family hadn't talked about in years.
Letitia.
As soon as the name was uttered, Becky could see the power it still had over her older sister Joe, even after so many years.
Becky brought up Letitia.
This is Becky's sister Jo.
For her, the very word was like a gut punch.
But as she looked around the table, Joe saw their parents were struggling to even place the name.
It felt like people were trying to remember Letitia, like it was this hazy thing.
Everyone held little snippets.
Letitia drove a red car.
Letitia had small hands.
Letitia was very beautiful.
As the family batted around half-memories, Joe remained quiet.
Becky watched the emotion sweep over her sister's face.
Across the table in this very loud restaurant, I just got this
wave of sadness about Letitia.
Letitia was Becky and Joe's babysitter until one day, 20 years ago, when she suddenly vanished from their lives.
As movie producers, Becky and Joe's parents worked long hours and were rarely home.
So from the time they were toddlers until they were young teens, the girls were looked after by a parade of babysitters, one after the other.
We had a babysitter named Melissa.
We had a babysitter named Robin.
There was a babysitter named Maim.
We had a babysitter named Candace.
Don't remember too much about Audreana.
16 babysitters in total.
16 young women lurking in the background of family photographs, dimly remembered, each odd in their own way.
Helena, she was kind of an asshole.
She ended up falling in love with this exterminator that came to our apartment when we had fleas.
There was the babysitter who joined a cult.
She just said, now my name is Malie.
The babysitter who performed Reiki treatment on Becky.
The babysitter who lied about a death in the family to scam travel money.
Aislin.
Aislin.
Aislin brought Becky and Joe onto the front lawn one day and taught them, a 10-year-old and a six-year-old, how to put a condom on a banana.
And let us like pick a flavor of condom.
I just remember looking over across the lawn and seeing my sister, who looked so small to me, tasting a like grape-flavored condom.
Also, just the going out on the lawn part.
Like, I don't.
Oh, well, did you have a banana tree outside?
Nope.
Huh.
Becky and Joe's parents were always absent, so all the caretaking fell to the babysitters.
They fed the girls when they were hungry, comforted them when they were upset, became integral to their lives.
And then, after a couple of months, they usually left.
It walloped Joe each time.
To have all these women come and go and choose to go.
It kind of felt as though, you know, they were hired to be our friend
and then
we were just
too much, or there was something
that was too much to even make money worth being our friend.
I
just really felt like I had no one.
But then came someone.
Neither Becky nor Joe can recall where Letitia came from.
She just showed up one day, as glamorous as a movie star.
Joe, 10 years old at the time, was dazzled.
She was everything that I kind of wished I was in a teenage girl.
Her hair was straight and I wanted to straighten my hair and long nails and I bit my nails.
She wore spaghetti straps and she was like a grown-up popular girl.
And what set her apart was how she made the girls feel like they were friends.
She brought them to her home to meet her mom.
She took them to the beach and to the mall and taught them how to apply lip gloss.
Letitia seemed impossibly cool.
Becky and Joe remember her showing up late one time and explaining that she just crashed into a cop car.
The girls were in awe.
Even her music was cool.
There was one song in particular that she loved to play.
That Aaliyah song, Are You That Somebody?
with the baby sample in it?
You know, that like dirty south, here we go, you know, that song.
Yeah, I don't know it.
I make a mental note to sign up for a Spotify to listen to the song just as soon as I figure out how to connect to the hotel Wi-Fi.
Letitia choreographed this dance for us.
Just like this weird thing that we'd like do with our hands.
In the car, we were seated.
Me and Becky still remember it and we can do it like on cue.
Driving in the car, listening to that song and doing that dance, feeling cool and close to both of them kind of felt like I was like riding along with like two older cooler girls because I always idolized my sister yeah a lot so she was like your older sister's older sister kind of yeah
Letitia would just like lie on Joe's bed with her like kind of like on her stomach like pillow talking sharing secrets or something
I think that Letitia genuinely like really loved my sister
Letitia made them feel like she'd be sticking around.
But in the end, she only stayed a couple months.
And of all the departures, of all their babysitters, Letitia's was the most brutally abrupt.
The last day Becky and Joe ever saw Letitia, they were all hanging out in the kitchen.
And when thinking about what drove Letitia away, this is the moment Joe always returns to.
It was after school, and Letitia was making her a smoothie.
I accidentally, I knocked over the smoothie.
I was just so excitable around her, I think.
And she kind of dropped her knees and I tried to help her pick it up and she seemed pissed and she was like, it's okay, I got it.
For the rest of the day, Letitia seemed distant.
The next afternoon, as always, Becky and Joe waited for Letitia to pick them up.
outside their elementary school.
We just didn't see her car and we were waiting.
She was sometimes late.
You're like, oh, it's okay, like five minutes, she's just really late.
Five minutes turned to ten, turned to half an hour.
Joe took a seat on the grass and then so did Becky.
Other cars came and went.
An hour.
An hour and a half.
As the school emptied out, it took on a faraway, ghostly quality.
I remember the light changing.
also Becky's face changing and looking more to me.
Becky's face to me was a huge emotional compass because she was so much younger than me.
Jo's first impulse in scary, uncharted situations was to reassure herself by reassuring her sister.
She'd explained to Becky what was going on or tell her things would be okay.
But sitting on the front lawn of their empty school as night approached, Jo wasn't sure things would be okay.
I imagine there was nothing more to do than hold her little sister's hand.
Two or three hours went by and we were like sitting on the grass, like both of us just crying.
And like it really setting in that like
she's not coming.
I remember thinking too, like
maybe she died.
I think I knew by her not coming to pick us up that like she was gone.
Like she she was not gonna be in our life anymore.
And she wasn't.
After waiting several hours, the girls phoned their mom, who instructed them to walk to a nearby friend's house.
Maybe in the end, Letitia hadn't loved them.
Maybe it was just a job.
Letitia was gone without explanation, but Joe knew it had to be because of that smoothie.
Whatever the case, by the very next day, Letitia had been replaced.
Becky and Joe's mom had work to get back to.
The problem was solved, the way our parents looked at it, which was, you know, they're okay, they have supervision, but I was just so...
heartbroken.
Even all these years later, When Joe talks about it, it's in the language of a first breakup.
Letitia's disappearance even comes up in therapy.
With each new relationship, Joe's biggest fear is that the person she's with might suddenly disappear.
Just like Letitia did.
Since that family dinner, Becky hasn't been able to forget the sadness on her sister's face.
But whenever Becky prods her about it, Joe brushes it off or changes the subject.
But Becky knows her sister.
and she can tell she's hurting.
And she wants to help.
As the older sister, Joe took care of Becky.
Becky's now 27 and Joe is 30.
She's still the older sister, but Becky feels the time has come for her to take care of Joe.
If Letitia's out there, Becky wants to find her and ask, what happened that day?
I want to talk to her.
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Becky doesn't know where Letitia came from or where she might have gone.
She's not even sure of Letitia's last name.
Okay.
Which is why Becky has chosen to wade into that swamp of collective memory known as the family storage unit.
I feel like there's only so much time I can spend in here, just like because I know how many rats are in here.
The storage unit isn't lit, and Becky forgot her flashlight at home.
So she uses the light on her phone to scope out the room.
Inside are boxes piled atop each other, containing years and years worth of old school assignments, VHS tapes, and birthday cards from barely remembered family friends.
There's some meets up in here that's like 20 years old.
She's here to find Joe's childhood address book.
When Joe was a kid, the way that some people might collect autographs, she collected addresses.
So every time she met someone new, Joe would scrawl their address into a little book with a hologram dog on the cover.
Becky is hoping the book contains Letitia's full name and an address, any clues to help begin the search.
While digging around in the dim light, Becky finds one of Joe's old journals with entries dated from around the time of Letitia.
She sits down in the child-sized chair she used to use in her family's old living room and realizes a dream long held by little sisters everywhere.
With Joe's permission, she opens her older sister's diary and explores the once carefully guarded pages.
December 21st, 2000, Dear Weibo.
Joe named her diary Weibo after the robot in Flubber.
Bush is our new president.
They told us about a week ago.
Anyways, I have a totally new crush.
It's Justin Timberlake.
He is so hot.
I love him.
She declares on December 23rd, 1999, that her relationship with Leonardo DiCaprio is over.
She says, P.S., Leo is over too.
He is a pardon my French gaylord.
It is the new JoJo and I'm single, exclamation point.
With Leo and Justin, Joe created a fantasy of the perfect boyfriend.
And as Becky reads further, she wonders if, with Letitia, Joe had created a fantasy of the perfect mom, a mother who would always be around for her.
Dear Weibo, mom is going away tomorrow.
I can't believe it.
Again, for four days, which is usually extended to six days.
She never thinks about time with her family.
I love her so much, and she's mostly away from me.
Work, work, work.
And every Saturday night, she goes out with my dad.
I just spend the scraps of time with her that I have.
Fuck.
So sad.
Alone in the dim light of the storage unit, Becky puts the journal down and continues her search.
But after digging around for a couple hours, she gives up.
She can't find the address book.
It seemed like the storage unit had been a dead end.
But a few days later, Becky phones with some good news.
She'd taken Joe's journal home to keep searching for clues, and she found some.
There are a couple entries that mention Letitia, and I...
The first mention of Letitia is from the day she showed up, which was also the day the previous babysitter left.
It says, Dear Webo, today I found out some bad news.
Sylvia is leaving.
I'm trying not to make a big deal about it because I don't want to make Sylvia feel guilty.
The new babysitter is Letitia.
She's really nice and she's 19 years old.
August 3rd, 1998.
Letitia and I have found one thing in common.
We're planning a Leo night.
We both love Leonardo DiCaprio.
Love Joe.
And what else do you have there?
There's
September 6th, 1998.
Dear Weibo, today Letitia's coming to babysit.
I love Letitia.
She's the best.
She's one of those babysitters that actually does stuff with you.
Like, for one, she will take you to the pier.
Two, she goes on the rides.
A lot of my old babysitters weasel themselves off the rides, but not Letitia.
She rocks.
She's coming at one.
But only a few weeks later, Letitia was gone.
And for Joe, her disappearance was so painful that it bled into the departures of the babysitters that followed.
Dear Webo, Aislin and Hillary are leaving.
I don't want them to go.
Well, at least they told us.
Unlike Letitia.
We need to find a babysitter that will actually stay.
I gotta go to school.
I love you, Joey.
And then, in a diary entry written months after Letitia's disappearance, Becky discovers proof that her sister's heartbreak went beyond merely writing about Letitia.
She was also writing to Letitia.
The substance of Joe's letters was always the same.
I miss you, and I'm sorry.
I wrote a letter to Letitia.
It says, I still love you.
And today I got a letter in the mail, but it turned out to be an advertisement.
I really want to track her down.
All told, Joe wrote Letitia about a half a dozen letters.
Letitia never responded.
And now, 20 years later, it's Becky who wants to track her down.
According to Joe's diary, Letitia was 19 and attending a nearby college when she became their babysitter.
So present-day Letitia would now be 40 years old and possibly an alumna of the local college.
Armed with this, I start dialing Letitia's by the dozens.
An excellent dialer, I dial with confidence, leaving dozens of messages but receiving no responses.
Until.
Yeah, I just received a call from this number.
Oh, hi, yeah, I'm I was looking for uh Letitia.
What is this call pertaining to?
Uh, well, I uh while strong at the dialing part, my weakness has always been the part that comes immediately after.
There's a couple of
people who wanted to reconnect.
She was a part of their past.
Is this the right phone number?
Sorry?
Who would that be?
Who would that be?
She was their babysitter in the late 90s.
Oh,
okay.
That's interesting.
Okay,
I will pass the message along.
That's great.
So
this is Letitia's
number.
No, it's not.
It's my number.
At any rate, if you're in touch with her or what have you, you know, she could give me a call.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you.
Okay, thank you.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Was the hedgy owlman going to deliver my message to Letitia, or was he merely some basement apartment bachelor taking a break from opening cans of chili to have a little fun at my expense?
Because I have no other leads, I wait.
And then, one afternoon, a week later, I get a call back.
So once again, I unholster my trusty dialing finger and get ready to deliver some news.
Hey, Joe.
Hey.
Uh, Becky?
Hi.
So, uh I have some news to share.
I ha uh found Letitia.
Holy fuck.
What the fuck?
Holy shitballs.
After the break, the holiest shitball of all, Letitia.
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With built-in security on the first nationwide 5G advanced network, you keep private data private for you, your team, your clients.
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Hi.
Nice to see you all.
We've arranged to meet at a place near Letitia's house to talk about what happened that day long ago.
It turns out that Letitia still lives in the same neighborhood where she used to babysit Becky and Joe.
The sisters are the first to arrive.
So, uh, Letitia is supposed to be coming soon.
Um, do you want to sit there?
Sure.
And because I thought I would sit here and then I.
After detailing my elaborate seating chart, I offer refreshments.
I
have some water
and glasses for the water.
We fall into a nervous quiet.
Joe, swimming in decades-old emotions, seems especially unsettled.
When you said you found her, I was like, wait, I don't know this person at all.
It's so like the last time I saw her was the last time I saw her.
Like, it's so weird.
Like,
and then we wait
and wait.
And wait.
Becky and Joe sit on the couch side by side, listening to the cars pass by.
Five minutes turns to ten minutes, ten to fifteen.
Until finally, a knock at the door.
Hello.
Hi.
Hi.
Letitia has a warm smile and blonde highlights in her hair.
Jonathan.
Letitia.
Oh, it's nice to meet you.
Come on in.
Becky and Joe are here.
Oh, great.
Hi.
Oh, my God.
Was that the last time I saw you?
You were just kids?
As per my seating arrangement, Becky and Joe are on the couch.
Letitia sits down on the chair opposite them.
So I maybe we can...
I don't know how to...
to start exactly, but maybe...
What with all my planning out the seating arrangement, which so far seems to be working like a charm, I hadn't come up with a plan for how to actually begin a babysitter-babysated reunion.
So, I figure we should begin at the beginning with how Letitia came to be hired in the first place.
Do you remember like there being an interview?
Do you remember initial impressions of
so I think I found a posting maybe on Craigslist, I want to say.
I did.
I interviewed with your mom.
What didn't come up in the interview, Letitia says, is how big the job would be.
It wasn't just looking after Becky and Joe.
She also had to do the cooking, laundry, and house cleaning.
Letitia was barely out of high school and clearly in over her head.
It was the beginning of a tumultuous period in her life.
When I started to work
with you girls, it was like I was going through like a breakup and like just my whole world kind of felt like it was just, you know, unraveling.
You know, it was just like it was overwhelming.
I remember it being so difficult for me to get out of my car and like walk across the street because I felt so
uncomfortable under the glare of like the people just looking at me crossing the street.
I don't know.
I felt very like vulnerable in the world.
Letitia began to overeat compulsively.
And when she gained weight, it filled her with self-hatred.
To Becky and Joe, Letitia was the definition of cool, but in reality, she was barely keeping it together.
Even the awe-inspiring story about crashing into a cop car was less a middle finger to the man and more a symptom of being trapped in her own head.
I remember like breaking down in tears because for some reason, I thought I was going to like go to jail or something because I hit a police officer.
When Letitia stopped getting her period, she knew something had to be really wrong.
So finally, she went to the doctor.
And it was the doctor who told me, you know, I think you're depressed.
And suddenly, when he said that, it was like, oh my God, yes, of course, like, that's what's happening.
Eventually, Letitia would crawl out of that depression, but it would take her a decade to do it.
I mean, I wish I would have had the courage to come back and speak to you both in person.
So I was really excited and happy to hear that, you know, know, you guys had reached out.
For Letitia, the day she didn't pick up the girls from school was just one more bad day and a long blur of bad days.
But for Becky and Joe, it's the day they keep coming back to, one of the worst of their childhood.
Even if Letitia was depressed, why did she have to abandon them without a word of warning?
Didn't she care that they'd be left waiting all alone?
Joe can't bring herself to raise the question.
So Becky steps up and tries to explain the day for both of them.
We sat together on the grass and I just remember like the last car, like
and then sort of this panic setting in of like
we're alone and like
yeah, we waited a really long time and I remember being worried that like you were okay.
Becky looks over at Joe.
Just like when they were kids, they study each other's faces, looking for direction, trying to figure out their next move.
Tentatively, Joe weighs in.
Yeah, I mean, that is what happened.
But Letitia looks confused.
She offers her version of the day.
She'd been unable to get out of bed for most of the morning, telling herself that she had to go to work, and yet, she couldn't possibly go to work.
This was when she picked up the phone.
and dialed Becky and Joe's parents.
I called them and told them that I was going to be, and this was before your school ended, that I was sick.
But I did call, of course, I called and told them, and this was before your school was out,
that I'm sick and I'm, you know, I wasn't going to come in that day.
And that wasn't that day.
That was that day.
No one ever told us that
at all.
We really didn't know.
And it's been, I'm a 30 years old.
I mean, like, I've gone my whole life thinking that that was not a part of it.
The fact that you called
that
she knew that you weren't coming is so absolutely bonkers to me.
I think I felt at the time
like it was, it was me and Becky, like we were just too much.
Becky and Joe reach out for each other's hands as Joe continues.
According to the, I mean, my mom was like, I don't know what happened.
Like, truly, that's what we thought happened.
We thought that you just disappeared.
Letitia tells them that she'd only meant to call in sick for one day, but that their mom had grown so upset that Letitia, in her fragile state, felt like she couldn't ever return.
And so began Joe's letter-writing campaign.
I, after you left, wrote like countless letters to you.
And I remember my mom had all the stamps
and
she would mail my letters.
Joe looks at Letitia.
Again, she struggles to ask the thing she really wants to know.
Why didn't you ever respond to me?
But before she has to come out and say it, Letitia jumps in.
I didn't get any letters.
I never received any letters.
Joe takes in Letitia's words and speaks in a whisper.
That makes me so mad.
Like, it's just genuinely confusing.
I mean, anger, but like, I'm just like, why?
Why hadn't Becky and Joe's mom mailed the letters?
And why hadn't she told the girls girls that Letitia had actually phoned that day?
That
is not my memory of what happened.
I reach out to Becky and Joe's mom, Julia, to ask.
Her memory of the day is foggy, but she does not remember getting a call from Letitia.
As I remember it, I just got a call from someone at school saying nobody came to pick up your kids.
And that that felt like the worst thing I had ever done in letting my kids down.
Julia also doesn't remember being given any letters to mail.
Regardless, she wouldn't have been mailing them in the first place, she says.
Joe knew where the stamp drawer was.
Julia remembers the time of Letitia's employment as one of worry and stress.
She was producing about a half a dozen film projects at the time.
and was always exhausted.
She kept long hours during the week, and on weekends, she read the scripts that arrived at her doorstep in a huge pile.
I didn't feel like I had to apologize to my girls for having a career, but I did see that they kind of resented it.
And
I could understand why, because it did take me away from them.
Julia herself understands what it means to grow up with an absent mom.
Her own mother was a New York talent agent who was always distracted with work and handed her off to a series of housekeepers.
And I had my own memories of what I
resented.
Like my mother did not get up in the morning.
She liked to sleep late.
And so she didn't get up in the morning when my brother and I went to school.
So our lunches were always made by the housekeeper.
I just remember wishing that my mother had made my lunch herself.
You know, when I became a mom, I think I hoped I would do better, but when I got there myself, I saw how hard it was.
But she was always sure to make the girls' lunches herself, taking care to drop a note in saying she was thinking of them, that she loved them.
As for the other household chores, it seems like a lot of that fell to the young women she hired.
For Julia, being responsible for the cooking and cleaning while working a more than full-time job was too hard.
And it was made even harder by an agreement struck with her husband early on in their marriage.
My husband, I mean, it was clear he never wanted kids as much as I did.
And I think he loved them once they got here, but it was my deal.
And I was fully 100% responsible for all child care duties and everything.
And that was
something that was a bit of a problem in my marriage,
you know, which ultimately ended in divorce.
Julia says that when she envisions Becky and Joe sitting on the school lawn, embracing as the sky turned dark, she can't help but remember the day she sat her daughters down to tell them that she and their dad were divorcing.
Becky was 18 by then, and Joe 22.
Julia remembers them holding on to each other.
while she broke the news.
Well, Julia thought, at least they've got each other.
And I felt like they're together.
They're going to be okay.
I think 10?
Yeah, you were 10.
I remember because.
After hearing what their mom remembers, Becky and Joe say that there's probably no way to ever know for sure what happened.
Back then, Julia was just trying to survive.
And so was Letitia.
They each remember things differently.
And some things, they don't remember at all.
I remember making a smoothie with you and spilling the blender.
And I thought
that that was the reason.
When Joe brings up the spilled smoothie, this painful regret she's carried with her well into adulthood, Letitia tells her that she has no recollection of any smoothies at all.
And so Joe pulls out another pivotal memory.
I have a question.
Do you remember that Aaliyah dance?
No.
Or doing it?
Letitia shakes her head.
She doesn't remember, but the sisters do.
It's another moment that they still carry with them, that only they share.
Like, I remember that,
East Coast family.
The sisters mirror each other's hand movements.
They fall into the dance automatically.
They're enjoying themselves and each other.
And then it just went again.
That was so funny.
It's awesome.
In the Aaliyah song, Are You That Somebody?
Aaliyah poses a question: Are you that somebody?
Because of a hotel Wi-Fi situation, I've yet to listen to the song.
So I don't know whether Aaliyah ever gets her answer.
Five, six, seven.
We were never really dancers.
But watching Becky and Joe, it's clear they've gotten their answer.
Becky and Joe's somebody was neither babysitter nor parent.
The one constant the sisters always had was each other.
I care a lot about my sister.
Yeah.
And I mean, we're closer now than I think ever.
And Becky's one of the closest people to me in my life and
my hero.
Thank you.
Hello, Ishiio.
Yes, Ishio K.
Letitia gets a call from the hedgy man,
who, it turns out, is also her husband.
Their 19-month-old daughter is having a meltdown, and their six-year-old daughter needs to be picked up from school, so Letitia has to rush off.
They all make plans to get together soon.
But for now, Letitia needs to take care of her daughters, and Becky and Joe, for their part, head out together into a beautiful LA afternoon, doing their best to keep taking care of each other.
Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home
Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit, take this moment to design
if we meant it, if we tried,
but felt around for far too much
from things that accidentally touched.
This episode of Heavyweight was produced by Kalila Holt and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Stevie Lane and B.A.
Parker.
The show is edited by Jorge Just.
Special thanks to Emily Condon, Lulu Miller, Anna Sullivan, Kate Parkinson Morgan, Mathilde Urfalino, and Jackie Cohen.
Bobby Lord makes the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K.
Sampson, and Bobby Lord.
Additional music credits can be found on our website, gimletmedia.com slash heavyweight.
Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Haley Shaw.
Follow us on Twitter at heavyweight or email us at heavyweight at gimletmedia.com.
You can listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
We'll have a brand new episode next week.
This is an iHeart podcast.
