#4 Tony

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Pushkin.

Mr.

Driver, come get me outside.

We have to leave in about 10 minutes, okay?

Hi.

This is Khalila from Gimlet Media.

Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein.

I'm sorry, who is this?

Kalila from Gimlet Media.

Please hold for Jonathan Goldstein.

Please hold.

Please hold.

Yeah.

Wow.

Hello.

Hello?

How nice of you to take the call from yourself?

Oh, hey, Jackie.

You seem surprised that you called me.

So nice to hear from you.

I didn't call you.

I didn't realize that I had you on my calendar, but this is great.

How are you doing?

It's been so busy.

It's nice to like decompress and have a normal conversation.

How's it going?

From Gimlet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight.

Today's episode, Tony.

Paul,

how are you?

Very good, thanks.

I was wondering if you would be up for meeting me for an hour.

Okay, well, what about?

I was absent for most of your life, and,

you know, I've always felt bad about it.

Here's something you don't hear every day.

A godfather awkwardly asking out his 31-year-old godson on a god date.

I know you're busy.

I know you're your busy ass life-mouth father or two, and uh but if you can spare an hour like Monday or Tuesday night, you know, I'll bring it up.

Unfortunately, a week in advance, not uh, I don't know what the hell's going on.

The godfather being blown off is my friend Tony.

The realization that he needed to be a better godfather came suddenly.

It was like if Vito Corleone woke up one morning and thought, you know, godfathering should be more than just decapitating horses.

And then picked up a rotary phone and asked Johnny Fontaine out on an ice cream date.

But to explain how Tony got to this point, let's go back to the beginning.

It all started when Tony and I were catching up.

And regarding work, how is that going?

Good.

It's really great.

I'm actually enjoying...

the process of making this film, which is, I think, the really amazing thing about the past year.

This past year has been a hard one for Tony.

He's recently divorced and still adjusting

the house that has been settled.

Yeah, everything is settled.

Everything is settled.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I first met Tony in college when he was a young film student with manic energy, Jean Shallot curly black hair, and gray clothes that always smelt of Greek food.

After college, we became roommates, and on the weekend, his mother would would visit.

She referred to me as Gatso Melismano Evriaki, which I think translates loosely as the alley cat-haired little Jew.

But I didn't mind, because whenever she showed up, she brought homemates benecopita and terra musilata.

Tony would wash down these Grecian delights with copious amounts of booze.

Pretty soon, he started washing everything down with booze.

There's an image from that time that stuck with me.

Tony had decided to join me at the gym after downing a half bottle of vodka.

I remember him wailing on the heavy bag in his undershirt and gray jeans, looking a little like a kid pounding on the floor, fed up with everything.

Eventually, Tony turned to harder drugs, like heroin.

And soon after that, we stopped being roommates.

Tony went to rehab, and after he got out, spent some years putting his life back together.

He had a few relationships, and then he met Natalie.

Natalie was smart and loved to write, and when Tony hugged her, she disappeared into his body.

Tony's a big guy with a thick black beard covering his boyish face, and Natalie was apple-cheeked and glamorous.

I liked being around them.

One time, while walking by a curiosity shop, I saw a comically small ping-pong table in the window.

Immediately, I thought of Tony and Natalie.

I imagined the two of them in their kitchen smacking the little ball back and forth together and laughing.

During their wedding vows, Natalie said, I vow to grow old with you, but most of all, to grow young with you.

And Tony interrupted her right in the middle, eyes welling up to say, me too.

It was like he'd blown his youth, but was getting another chance.

But then, at some point around three years in, things started to get tougher.

Tony spent a lot of time locked in his studio, working obsessively on his movies, and Natalie started to feel hamstrung by Montreal.

Its smallness, the lack of opportunities.

They wanted a baby, but were having a hard time with it.

And then, Tony's dad died, making him the sole caretaker of his mother, a woman who didn't shy away from espousing strong opinions about her son's personal life.

All of this was hard on him and Natalie.

She was not happy.

She was not happy.

She was not happy.

She just didn't want to be here.

Natalie wanted to start a new life in a new place, but Tony felt happily stuck in the old one.

And he couldn't leave his mother all alone.

So when Natalie decided to leave town, he knew he couldn't go with her.

Was there ever a conversation in which you were both trying to envision a way in which you could leave the city?

No, because there was no way.

Like even with your mother to go with you.

Why is that?

No.

Tony's mother is an 84-year-old Greek woman with little English whose only hobbies are meticulously cleaning her toaster oven and wringing her hands while frowning.

And so in here lies the heart of Tony's current problem.

Before they separated, Tony and Natalie were trying to have a baby.

And now he finds himself alone, middle-aged, and worried he's missed his last chance to have a kid.

I...

Don't think there's a point to anything if you don't have a relationship with a young person.

How do you mean?

If I sit here in the dark thinking about it and realizing, you know, I'm 46 years old and I live alone and I'm not, you know, probably not going to have kids.

And who the fuck gives a shit if I live or die?

Aside from my mother and a few friends, but really who gives a shit?

You know,

who's going to feel a loss?

I'm not saying that in an egotistical way, but who do I mean something to?

Whose life have I enriched?

Like, I don't think, I don't understand

what there is to do here if you're not somehow helping or being connected to a younger person.

Lately, Tony's been thinking about three young people he had been connected to, his estranged godchildren.

Tony admits to screwing up those three relationships during three difficult chapters in his life.

Drug addiction, rehab, and divorce.

What if you were to try to get them back in your life?

I'm not sure what difference I can make.

It's kind of like, hey, here I am.

Now I'm ready for you.

Like, I haven't been here all these years, but hey, here I am now.

You know, not hearing my friend give up on himself so easily.

I decided to suggest something bold.

Why not try reaching out to the godkids he lost now?

I mean, I actually do want

to have a relationship.

I do.

You don't know until you at least try, right

i'm i'm i'm open to anything and do you do you have do you have their phone numbers

i get him to tell me about them beginning with the first paul i was 16 years old it was very formal i i held this kid in a greek orthodox baptism ceremony for an hour my arm almost fell off babies are really heavy especially when you have one arm to hold onto them and you have a candle in the other yeah but it was cute you know i was really young and um

i was close to their family um but i was 16 within like two years i was a raving lunatic alcoholic drug addict

i didn't see much of him or anybody at all from the family uh for quite a few years and i didn't think about him much that that that's for sure And this god kid, what's his name?

His name is Paul.

And Paul would be about 30 years old now?

Yeah, he's 31.

And here's the thing.

I've never actually talked to him about how he felt having an absentee godfather, but he beat me at an arm wrestle and I think he really enjoyed that.

And when you say enjoyed that, he enjoyed hanging out and spending time with you, or he enjoyed beating you?

Enjoyed beating me.

For being such a crappy godfather.

That's what I'm saying.

Is there a particular question that you would want to

pose to him or to to all of them?

Do you hate me?

Like, does it mean anything if you that I'm somebody's godfather because I said so or somebody said so or we did something a long time ago?

It can mean nothing or it can mean something.

You know, Godfather is a big fucking deal if you think about it.

It has this spiritual implication: God, right?

It's not

toilet father.

And so, with my encouragement, Tony picked up the phone and reached out to Paul.

Which brings us back to the phone call you heard earlier.

Want me to call you on Saturday, you said?

Yeah, I think that's that'll be easiest.

Okay,

are you up to this?

You don't feel like I'm I don't want to impose on you like

you said, you know, you feel bad.

I don't think you should.

There's nothing to feel bad about.

It's

yeah, yeah, but yeah, give me a call on the weekend and we'll uh try to figure something out.

out.

Okay, great.

I'm about to call you.

Perfect.

Alright, sounds good.

Oh, take care.

Bye.

You too.

Bye.

On Saturday, Tony called.

With no response, he reached out again.

And again.

Eventually, he gave up.

Tony and Paul never got together.

Tony and I reconvened, and I tried to bolster his spirits.

Maybe things would go better with Godchild II, Zoe.

She is the daughter of a rehab buddy

who was actually also a drug dealer here in Montreal when I was dealing in Montreal.

And we met in rehab in Ottawa.

And he asked me, Do you want to be your godfather?

I said, sure.

I said, are you guys going to baptize her?

They said, no, be her godfather.

Okay, great.

And so it was just like that.

That was easy.

Yeah.

But it was meaningful.

I was happy to do whatever was going to be required of me.

And I did see the kid, you know, when she was young.

And then I moved to Montreal.

And so she basically grew up without me.

In the intervening years, Tony's only seen Zoe a couple times.

When she comes to town, she doesn't bother looking him up.

Because I remember how I used to see people that were like, never mind, 40s.

Yeah.

Like people in their 30s were crusty,

you know, yellow-tenailed, you know,

old people.

And occasionally, you know, I'll get like she'll likes something on my Facebook page, and I'll be like, ooh!

But Tony wants more than that.

Since Zoe still lives in Ottawa, just a two-hour drive away, I suggest he go visit her.

Maybe it isn't too late.

But after his failed attempt with Paul, he isn't sure she'll even want to see him.

So I offered a road trip down with him for emotional support.

My god, we're just a funny old lady.

You know, the whole purpose of this thing is for you not to be a deadbeat goddad.

I know, I feel really bad.

It's my fault.

It's Zoe's last week of high school, and Tony's arranged to pick her up after her day of finals.

You don't mind driving a little fast, do you?

Don't go like snail-paced grandma style.

That's my style.

No, grandma style.

Don't do that.

When we get to the school, Zoe's waiting outside.

All right.

Here we go.

You feeling good?

I'm feeling good.

There we go.

Here we go.

Here we go.

Hello.

Hello.

How are you?

Zoe is 18.

She's wearing a yin and yang choker around her neck and a pink scrunchie in her hair.

So how's everything?

How are you?

Really good.

Almost done high school.

Yeah.

The final frontier.

So good, let's go to the park.

Okay.

Would you like some candy?

Zoe?

Sure, why not?

As Tony's emotional support system, I thought it might be helpful to bring refreshments.

We drive along chewing in silence.

And then Tony decides to break the ice.

I have a really good disgusting story to tell you.

Oh.

Well, can you contextualize what disgusting is?

Oh my god, I'm only thinking about it because it happened right around here.

Oh no, I don't like where this is going.

A friend of mine has been collecting his vomit for the past 20 years in a gigantic tin, like a gigantic metal drum in the basement.

Oh my god.

What the heck?

I wasn't expecting that.

Me neither.

That's so terrible.

Why would you bring something like that up right now?

It happened right around here.

So like, how did you find out about that?

My head scrolled.

So many questions.

And fun fact, the vomit house is on Ralph Street.

Google map it.

It's right there next to Brown's Inlet, the park we're on our way to.

I've only been to this park once before, and that was a weird day.

Explain.

I started dating this guy and like the first time we ever hung out outside of school was in this park.

We were on those swings and I just remember being like, wow, this is really weird.

Like this is a date.

So I guess that was like my first date.

We find a picnic table beside the playground where young mothers are playing with their babies.

Tony and Zoe sit side by side, she fiddling with a strand of hair, and he staring at the table, sweeping pebbles of sand back and forth.

The two of them catch up.

It turns out Zoe's taking improv classes, and Tony's taking improv classes too.

Back and forth.

Oh, I'd love to see that.

I'd love to see that.

You'd like my troupe.

I think you'd like those guys a lot.

Being both a friend who wants to encourage bonding, as well as a lover of show business, I ask if they might improvise a scene or two.

This is my favorite bench.

It's funny because it's also my favorite bench, and I've actually never seen you sitting here.

But instead of the comedic romp I'd hoped for, I get a sluggish five-minute piece of Samuel Biketti in theater.

So I guess what I'm saying is you'll either have to move to the bench that's beside mine or beside his.

And scene.

I thought like improv was supposed to be like funny.

Well, because it usually is energy and you're on stage and you're like you're doing stupid shit and people are laughing.

You're not laughing.

And in my heart, it feels like Christmas morning on Ralph Street as Tony and Zoe begin to bond.

Yeah, yeah, you look really solid.

So I'm playing to my audience.

I look at the tune.

They're having fun, but Tony's still thinking about godfatherhood.

Tentatively, he brings it up.

I...

because a godfather traditionally well a godfather is supposed to to provide spiritual instruction and

um

i wasn't there when you were really young when you were told when you were young this is tony he's your godfather yeah do you remember that

um

i always knew that you would you had this like connection to my parents that was really valuable So by extension, you'd be valuable to me, even though I didn't know you that well.

Yeah.

What can I offer you at this point, from this point onward, in a formal fashion?

I don't know what you hope for me to provide for you.

To provide for me?

Yeah.

Oh, I mean, it's a two-way street.

I mean, I can't just like take so much and not give anything to you.

Well, that's the point.

The point, you don't, you know, that's the point is that I'm here for you.

That is the point.

With a God-child,

not so much with a God-adult.

The children's book is called The Giving Tree, not The Giving and Taking Tree.

Children aren't self-conscious.

They don't find it weird to take without giving anything in return, but adults do.

I'm beginning to feel like pushing Tony to reconnect with his godchildren might have been foolhardy.

Tony can't just insert himself into a past he missed out on.

And as for the future, Zoe's getting ready to go off to college.

She's at the point in life when actual parents see less and less of their kids.

Never mind god parents.

She was a little bit country and he was a little bit rock and roll.

That was a song.

I'm a little bit country.

Yeah, I'm a little

reverse.

I'm a little bit...

As Tony sings both parts of a Donnie and Marie duet, Zoe watches him with a big smile on her face.

It's clear they really enjoy each other.

And the afternoon goes well.

But as far as the god-parental relationship Tony wants, it feels like it just might be too late.

I'm really impressed.

I think you've got a pretty fucking firm hold on things.

Well, I mean, if you're ever in dire need for like a caregiver when you're old and can't go to the bathroom or something, like I could help you.

Only one godchild to go.

Will Tony be a godfather or a toilet father?

Is the cat still in the cradle?

And if so, will he scratch Tony's eyes out when roused from his godfatherless slumber?

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Tony's first godchild, Paul, didn't have the time for a relationship.

And his second godchild, Zoe, had outgrown the whole godfather-goddaughter thing.

That left him one last chance.

Nine-year-old Nicholas, godchild the third.

Nicholas, Godchild number three is Nicholas, the son of my cousin.

This one is especially challenging for Tony, because unlike with Paul and Zoe, Tony's not the only godparent in the picture.

Tony's ex-wife Natalie was warm and likable.

When they started dating, she helped him reconnect with his family.

So much so, that when Nicholas was born, his mom, a cousin Tony wasn't even especially close to, asked them both to be his godparents.

Tony and Natalie were together at Nicholas's baptism.

I was holding him, and

he was really upset until I took him, and he was quiet the whole time.

And everybody was kind of spooked by the fact that he was suddenly so quiet

when I was holding him.

So there was this whole kind of energy around, like, oh, why is this power Tony has over Nicholas?

Why is he so quiet?

And everybody seemed to make a kind of a strange impression on people.

And it felt good to sort of be, I guess for whatever reason, had nothing to do with me.

somehow this kid felt

soothed or calmed by

me.

And

we baptized the kid, we had a big party, and then we started, we were there every year, like three, four times a year, which is pretty good.

But it was all good,

but it was all about being with Natalie.

Natalie was the initiator.

She's the one who planned the godparent stuff, like trips with Nicholas to the movies and the museum.

Nicholas loved Natalie and related to her and Tony as a unit.

So when that unit split up, Tony couldn't bring himself to keep visiting Nicholas and his mom.

It reminded him too much of Natalie.

I didn't feel like seeing them.

I didn't feel like going to her house, because I always went there with Natalie.

But Nicholas's mother continued to reach out.

Nicholas really misses you, she'd write.

Eventually, she suggested they all get together on neutral ground, her sister's house.

So we did.

We set up a surprise dinner, which was about two months ago.

And I went over, and

they were really happy to see me.

But at the same time, I noticed Nicholas's first reaction,

he was kind of

shocked.

And I could see that all this stuff went through his eyes.

And then he put on this kind of smiley, happy guy thing.

I could read it all in his face right away.

And you think that was because Natalie wasn't there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tony's afraid that Nicholas won't want a relationship with him that doesn't include Natalie, afraid that maybe he's not the godparent that Nicholas wants.

But he also doesn't want to repeat the same mistakes.

So he screws up his courage and goes back over for dinner, hoping he and Nicholas can connect again.

But before Tony gets a chance to sit down, the very first words out of Nicholas's mouth.

So Tony,

how's Natalie?

Natalie, um,

she's, she's okay.

If you just could get back with her, that would be a relief.

Why would that be a relief?

No, I want to see her again, and I never get to see her.

Yeah,

that's true.

I only see you.

And that's not enough.

You will see her again, and she says hi because she's in Australia.

Actually, she's in New Zealand.

You don't want to be in the place that she is, right?

Well, I don't want to be in New Zealand because it's far away from everything that I do.

My mother is here.

My mother's an old lady, she's 85 years old, and she needs me.

She can't live alone.

So I can't go anywhere.

So, if Natalie doesn't want to be here,

it's over for you.

It's over for you, old sausage.

It looks like that.

But you never know.

I'm not in love with anybody else.

They sit down on the couch, and Tony faces the thing that's hardest for him to talk about.

Even with adults, let alone a child.

So are you going to be sad if you don't see her again?

A bit.

A bit.

I can't just kidding a lot.

Is there anything

you want to ask me about Natalie or anything?

Did you feel like a part of your heart broke up to pieces?

Yeah.

You did?

Yeah.

Very much.

A lot.

Do you miss her a lot?

Yeah.

I do.

Well, you should have said you should have said this.

Come back whenever you come

you could come back whenever you want.

Or just say

or just say sorry or something.

Yeah.

I did.

Okay.

I said sorry, and so did she.

She had things to be sorry about too.

And then I said come back.

For a long time I said come back whenever you want.

And

I think

I think she's decided not to.

I think she's decided.

Maybe it's because Post-Canada takes a long time to get a note.

Really long.

No, but I write her on the internet.

Oh, internet?

Oh, that makes more sense.

I thought you brought it from Post-Canada.

Tony's putting away his own feelings and focusing on Nicholas's, which is a very godfatherly thing to do.

And Nicholas, for his part, seems to be straining on his emotional tiptoes to try to reach Tony.

And together, they meet somewhere in the middle.

Do you remember when

I baptized you, right?

Yeah.

And you were crying, you were really upset.

I had to pick you up.

When I picked you up,

you went totally quiet.

And everybody was like, you're so quiet.

And

everybody said,

you made him calm.

And I thought, that's cool.

Maybe that's what Godfathers are supposed to do.

They're supposed to make people calm and be like, everything's okay, don't worry about it, you know?

But let me ask you something.

Yeah.

What kind of godfather do you want me to be?

I wanted you to be the same thing as you are right now.

Which is what?

You're a really good

godfather.

I am?

Yeah.

You're pretty good.

Thanks, man.

I appreciate that.

That's very nice of you to say.

It's not a coke.

You're really good.

I'm good.

You're a godfather.

Thank you.

That's awesome.

Cool, man.

What can I say about him?

And with that, Tony was a godfather.

Because when your godchild tells you you're a godfather, you're a godfather.

When I talked to Tony a couple weeks later, he'd already seen Nicholas again.

They went to visit Tony's mom.

He says she liked having a kid around, to wait on, to serve spinnicopita.

She's laughing in her heart.

This is the best day that I ever had.

And it's only just begun.

Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home

Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit Take this moment to decide

if we meant it if we tried

but felt around for far too much

from things that accidentally touched

Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Chris Neary and Kalila Holt.

The senior producer is Wendy Dorr.

Editing by Alex Bloomberg and Jorge Just.

Special thanks to Emily Condon, Anna Azimakopoulos, and my delightful pal, Jackie Cohen.

The show is mixed by Haley Shaw, music by Christine Fellows.

Additional music credits for this episode can be found on our website, gimletmedia.com/slash heavyweight.

Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad ad music is by Haley Shaw.

Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at heavyweight at gimletmedia.com.

We'll have a new episode in two weeks.

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You've probably heard me say this.

Connection is one of the biggest keys to happiness.

And one of my favorite ways to build that, scruffy hospitality, inviting people over even when things aren't perfect.

Because just being together, laughing, chatting, cooking, makes you feel good.

That's why I love Bosch.

Bosch fridges with VitaFresh technology keep ingredients fresher longer, so you're always ready to whip up a meal and share a special moment.

Fresh foods show you care, and it shows the people you love that they matter.

Learn more, visit Bosch HomeUS.com.

Top Reasons Your Career Wants You to Move to Ohio.

So many amazing growth opportunities, high-paying jobs in technology, advanced manufacturing, engineering, life sciences, and more.

You'll soar to new heights, just like the Wright brothers, John Glenn, even Neil Armstrong.

Their careers all took off in Ohio, and yours can too.

A job that can take you further and a place you can't wait to come home to.

Have it all in the heart of it all.

Launch your search at callohiohome.com.

This is an iHeart podcast.