Russell Wilson’s Confidence, Defending Stefon Diggs & Other NFL Hot Topics

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The Heat the Co Podcast doesn't need a pink powder to feel alive unless, you know, you got any.

You know,

you don't really, listen, listen, everyone's different.

You know, you don't,

you don't need to worry about me.

I was a kid

in the late 80s, early 90s, a time when everyone from Nancy Reagan to Mr.

T

to Alf was telling me a single hit of pot

would send me spiraling into addiction and potentially killing one of my relatives in some way.

And then I go, that spins me straight into adolescence in the early 90s.

Many, many days spent in health classes at school where we would watch made-for-TV movies about like one single good night out at a Keger in the woods would land you a terrible case of bulimia and the virus that causes AIDS.

So I come from the pre-internet, baby, and it set me relatively straight.

But I can't, the rest, the youth of today and the children that Justin, you, and the wonderful Jeska will bring into the world one day, they have Stefan Diggs out there in the discourse.

They're out of control.

I wish you the best of luck.

yeah thanks it'll be tough

it is beyond that though too yeah you missed too dan the the constant razor blade in the apple halloween scare which i feel like for you tapped into the idea that even if it was like a powder that someone was hitting like everything was poison and everyone was a kidnapper everything was poison and literally everything that you would drink or eat would kill you in some way shape or form and there was the tylenol scare um

that you know turned the country nuts um and back then like every mother's in mad mothers against drunk driving they're very CERN like you know everyone is just on this issue so Nancy Reagan's going nuts you're right she was a bit of a nuisance so I agree with you and Mark you you and your youth and your adolescence in the 50s they were like nobody does the twist on my watch see I know you probably thought I was around like in the late 60s like I was born I am literally like I was in first grade in 1980 so I mean I am older than you but like i hit that sweet spot of like drug fear and sex fear and every other type of fear like you don't do anything suddenly now this would be a theory that somebody probably has written a paper about and i'm not going to do it because it'd be disrespectful but on top of all the things in these coming of age moments in the 80s and early 90s you had len bias you had magic johnson i saw magic johnson i was at the yankee dodger game on sunday night and i see magic johnson there and i was thinking to myself and he's smiling and he's jacked and he's the owner of the Dodgers and living and he's a billionaire and it if you are someone that was born in exactly 1980 that's a throwback podcast uh callback which is coming back soon by the way everybody uh have no fear but if you are of a certain age

Seeing Magic Johnson today is incredible because Magic Johnson, when he announced in November 1991 that he had acquired HIV,

you were, again, you were taught that once you get that, you're dead.

And sadly, millions of people did die within years of that diagnosis.

And Magic came around and had the resources to get the medicine.

And it all timed up for him.

And here he is

30-some-odd years later, thriving.

But even that

made me think of what it was like growing up at that time.

Isn't the lesson right there that maybe it is and was okay to do everything that he did to get into that fix that he was in?

I mean, I would check with Cookie Johnson on that, Mark, before

I will source it with her and get it okay.

Cookie Johnson is Magic's wife.

To this day, how about that?

Justin.

She stood by.

Justin, Magic Johnson was a basketball player.

I am aware.

No,

I don't want to derail the podcast less than five minutes in, but I heard a crazy conspiracy theory about Magic Johnson and HIV the other day that he missed.

Justin was annoyed.

Before you go on,

do you really want to go on here, Justin?

Just from the show.

I'm going to give you a chance,

take a beat.

Just take a beat, and then we're going to move out of the way.

Okay, go ahead.

If anyone is curious, Google it.

It might blow your mind.

Boom.

Back to the show.

Nicely done, Justin.

Hardcore.

We don't need to use the screeching brakes on the show at the top.

Is that not true about every conspiracy theory, though?

Because like 2% of them are f ⁇ ing true.

And then you can say, like, Google it, it'll blow your mind.

And like, yes, so did, like, you know, Shutter Island, but it was fake.

It's, and that's why it blew my mind.

So I'm not, you know, I don't know.

It's a great movie.

Dan Hansis with Mark Sessler, Connor Orr, and Justin Graver.

He'd in that call on a Tuesday.

It is post

June 1st, which means you could see some NFL activity, signings, trades.

That's a...

That's a well-traveled expression.

Oh, he'll be designated a post-June first cut.

And then like 80% of the people that say it don't even know what the it means.

That might be me, also.

But you could just say, it's like, oh, it's fine.

They could, oh, yeah, they could absolutely make this move because they'll designate him post-June one.

Connor, you are an actual journalist.

You've been trained at the University of Syracuse.

You are a senior writer for Sports Illustrated, only the most esteemed sports publication in the history of the United States.

Can you please explain to people what a post-June 1st designation is?

I sure can.

So after June 1st, when a team releases a player, they are allowed to split up the cap hit evenly over the course of two seasons, which makes it less troublesome, less burdensome on the coming year's salary cap.

Pretty simple.

That's it.

Yeah.

That's all it is.

You don't have to absorb all the pain.

And jack up.

This is for now.

I'm talking to Mark.

Mark, you don't have to absorb all the pain, and it could mess up your free agency cycle and even signing graphics.

You could just spread it out over multiple years.

Just a minor reminder, Dan, that we

wrote and covered football for a decade and a half.

So I am familiar with

the situation as well.

I get that we're a little adrift these days, but

come on.

Aren't we all?

Aren't we all?

All right, we got a bunch of stuff to get caught up on.

I hope everybody had a good weekend.

Let's do some news.

How can you be assured

that you won't get frustrated to the point that you were at the end of last season?

Well, for one shit, I'm doing more, I'm going to church more and I'm doing more therapy more.

And so, I mean, I've been finding that, you know, more on my side lately.

Of course, Tyreek Hill.

Yes.

The moment this guy gets less than five targets in a lopsided loss in September, God will be nowhere to be found, Mark.

Well, it's a cunning strategy.

I'm sure about that.

At this juncture, it's a cunning strategy because no one can really make fun of an athlete who's turned spiritual.

And we can't make fun of people that take therapy at this point.

It's a nice one-two punch where you kind of silence the questions for a bit.

And in general, can we

just a minor request?

Can we please...

Can we please leave God out of it with this absolute mundane side of things with sports and the minutiae of sports, whether it's Tyreek Hill talking about whether he's going to get along with his quarterback and

play caller, or even Deion Sanders.

Deion is on the Asante Samuel has a podcast.

He's on this podcast and they're talking about how

difficult the Shador Sanders situation was at the draft.

He was supposed to be a first-round pick.

He goes all the way in the fifth round, of course, to the Browns.

And I would think something like that would possibly lead to just a touch, a smidge

potentially of reflection

and

self-awareness and like, what can I learn from that?

What could I have done better?

And that we've all been in that situation.

But with Dion,

he goes a different path.

Let's check that out.

It did hurt.

Man, Coach, what are you talking about?

It hurt.

It hurt us.

It hurt me.

It hurt, coach.

But you know, the Bible says God uses the foolish things to confound the wise.

So it was some foolish stuff that went on.

But you know what?

That gave them

something that they needed.

Yeah,

they needed.

There's no accounting for any mistakes that are made like the reporting out there.

I think he was referring specifically that his son Shador was wearing headphones during the pre-draft process, that he didn't take it seriously, that he wasn't respectful of anyone in the room and completely turned off the entire NFL.

But no, no, no, no, it was the whatever he said, the devil sneaking into the room to the and God, you know, the foolish, or whatever he was saying.

I can't even, I don't even, it drives me nuts.

But can we please, can we please, and this is not a comment on religion and faith or anything like that, whether it's you believe or not, it's just this type of sports,

this conflation of sports in these minor ways with a higher power.

it annoys me, Connor.

It grinds my gears.

So, two things.

One in a sports context.

Angels in the Outfield, classic movie from the 1990s with an all-star.

Danza vehicle.

Danza, Adrian Brody, Matthew McConaughey.

I mean, this play, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, this film is loaded from top to bottom.

But the Angels didn't even help in the playoffs.

So if we think that the Angels don't give a shit about the ALCS or the NLCS, they're they're definitely not going to give a shit about the draft.

At least I wouldn't think so.

And my other thought is that.

Fair point.

Yeah, it just, you know, it nailed it.

But then the second thing here is that during Easter, we all go to, well, Catholics, we all go to Mass, and we hear the same thing over and over again every year, which is like, you know, just, you know, keep, keep God in your heart, but like, don't.

Don't be an asshole about it.

You know, like, let's not go around talking about it all the time.

Let's not go around telling people how to interpret it.

Let's not go around bragging about how godly we are.

Let's just, you know, you know, let's just go do our thing and then we'll let everything else take care of itself.

So maybe we just, maybe we missed that mass.

And that's really like when, you know, Dan, you're involved in a lot of charity work.

We know about that, but we don't know about it because so much of it is done in the dark.

Like you do it without asking for

me building an orphanage somewhere in the south?

Something akin to that.

Great acclaim of a certain head coach in a SCC program, I believe it is.

Yeah, you know, know, and you kept that on the low front in terms of attention, but I would ask you one question.

I think you make a trenchant point about how this can get out of control, and then especially in the Dion thing.

Do you know for sure that God is excited about you asking to essentially lower his PR

rating by removing him from all sports?

Like, we hear a lot less about God.

Do you know that, are you certain that God's like, yeah, I'm cool with a lot less attention as our world spins out of control?

Good job, Dan.

I can't answer that question.

I know, but it's like

you're claiming

we don't know what God wants in this situation.

So just saying, could be a conflict there with a very powerful entity.

I think God probably was totally cool with Shador Sanders like look at me draft party,

expecting to be the first overall pick and the $700,000 Lamborghini in in the driveway and all the other accoutrements.

I think, yes, I think that's probably where he's leaning, that that is one of his.

It's one of his lambs.

That is not a stray on any level would be my guess.

So if that answers your question.

Well, that was just my episode.

God is fully aligned with Deion Sanders in every way.

I think that's right.

It is my job to protect Shador Sanders, apparently, on this show.

Yeah, that might be your greatest PR work yet just now.

So well done.

It would suck if you got all the way to heaven and God was like, you didn't listen to the Dion on Asante podcast.

Like I sent that down there for you, you know?

Shit, I missed it.

Whole thing.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

All right.

Let's see.

Some news, some news, some news.

Surprising news came down on Monday that the Detroit Lions need a new center

because

veteran Frank Ragnow announced his retirement.

This was a little quote from Frank.

Frank, not enough Frank's in the mix.

And we just lost one.

That's a tough one.

These past couple of months have been very trying as I've come to the realization that my football journey is ending.

I've tried to convince myself that I'm feeling good, but I'm not.

And it's time to prioritize my health and my family's future.

You know, good for Frank.

He is a first-round pick in 2018.

He got a second contract.

I'm not sure exactly.

Spot Rack would be able to tell us what his career earnings were, but probably more than enough to retire comfortably and take care of his family.

So, a man that turned 29 in May, spent his entire career with the Lions.

He started all 96 games.

He played three times, second-team all-pro, four-time Pro Bowler.

And now he steps away.

It leaves obviously a hole on the line, and he was a warrior for this team, Connor.

A lot of reporting around second-round pick Tate Ratledge, who was taking snaps at center in their OTA program this month or last month.

So

they have a plan B ready, but

this is a tough beat for the Lions who are in Super Bowl or bust mode.

Played a game and did not allow a sack with a fractured neck.

So just think about that for a second.

When I went to go to Detroit last year to do some reporting on the Lions ahead of the season, Frank kind of embodied the beginning of the Dan Campbell era where it was like he was the one that everyone everyone knew was not okay in any way, shape, or form on a physical level before every practice, before every game.

And Frank was the one that kind of embodied that Dan Campbell mentality, which is like, I have to get through it.

I have to play through it.

I listened back to our conversation before the show.

And one thing that struck me was

he had a young child at the time last year in 24 around the summer.

And just how awestruck he was at becoming a dad.

And I do think that that is a pivotal moment in a lot of players' lives.

Like, I remember Chris Snee, that legendary guard from the Giants, telling me, If I play another year, I might not be able to hold my kids in the ocean, you know, because my shoulders are so screwed up.

Right.

And so I think that there just comes that moment where you have to decide whether this is, you know, I want to keep going or if it's worth it for me to just step away.

And I'm sure Frank will have opportunities in the Lions organization or around the NFL.

I mean, he's truly one of the league's good guys and super smart guy, too.

He, and it's like, he probably also feels like if I can't be the player that I've been health-wise for Detroit, it's not fair to go back into this.

But I think the family thing is absolutely true.

I will say one thing.

Take a look at Tate Ratledge.

We got a photo right here.

I think, let's bring that up.

Like, this is a Lions, a Detroit-looking type of guy.

He's got the mustache.

He's got the

steak.

Yes, he does.

So I think, you know, maybe they draft.

They've drafted so well.

You know, maybe they thought there was a chance we need to find a new center.

He was a guard more at Georgia, but he's been playing center for them in the OTAs.

I actually see a little bit of Sessler in his face.

So, maybe that's part of the.

Yeah, look from the nose to eyes.

Do you see that, Connor?

A little bit, a little bit of

a throw mullet on Mark and about 100 pounds of muscle and guard.

I'd say more than 100 pounds.

Do I look like that?

I need to sleep.

Oh, no, I just did it again.

Now, Mark's not sleeping tonight.

tonight damn it

shit sorry buddy i didn't mean he is manly ragnow made uh close to 58 million dollars during his nfl career so happy trails to you sir you certainly earned it and we'll see how the lions develop without him all right in other news multiple teams this according to uh

friend of the show a little bit strong and rap sheet adversary jordan schultz uh multiple teams have reached out to the falcons about the availability of Kyle Pitts.

Kyle Pitts, of course, was touted as a generational talent coming out of college a few years back, and it just has never really clicked.

And just to that point,

Schultz was told it would take at least a day two pick to even spark serious trade talks.

Now, listen.

If that, if Schultz's reporting is accurate, like the wording of that is always, you could read into it.

It would take at least a day two pick.

So no one is giving up a second round pick for Kyle Pitts, who's been not just underwhelming in his career, but he's been banged up physically.

And there's a lot of talk and speculation about how much he's into it.

And if you listen to some of the quotes we heard from Raheem Morris at OTA's, it was pretty telling if you read into it.

Like Raheem, essentially, I'm paraphrasing here, but he's got to be all in.

He's got to buy in.

He's got to do the things we tell him to allow allow him to be the player and have the focus necessary.

Those are the type of things that the coach speaks that screams to an organization being disappointed in a player.

So

I would think, Mark, that Pitts is the type of guy that

worth a waiver.

He's probably 25 years old, and he hasn't had a devastating physical injury,

just been banged up more than

an ACL or something like that.

But this to me, if you can get a third-round pick, I think you'd be fortunate.

But this could be a fourth rounder and something.

You know, let's say a fourth.

Let's do it this way, Mark.

I know you have that Njoku, who I love.

He's a good player, David Njoku.

If the Falcons called you up and you're the GM of the Browns and said, I will give you

Kyle Pitts and a fifth for a third-round pick, would you do that trade?

I'm going to use the rule that we do when it comes to trades in general: general is take it down another round.

Andrew Berry specifically

never gets fleeced in trades.

He gets fleeced in signing quarterbacks.

I'm not asking Andrew Berry.

I'm asking Mark Sepper.

Well, I would maybe do it if it were for

a fourth.

Because I do think one thing about Pitts, if you look at Pitts and it's like, okay, you were in a discombobulated Arthur Smith offense that never took off with bad quarterback play, and then a defensive-minded coach comes in and doesn't see you, doesn't see eye to eye.

I think Kyle Pitts still remains, to certain offensive coaches, crack cocaine because you see the potential, and you think if I could pair him with another tight end, and we can have him as part of our offense, it's a very juicy comprehension.

So, I would make

yeah, but am I crazy, though?

Like, Connor, like, he doesn't pass the eye test to me.

Like, what we were told what he was in terms of his athleticism, watching his games, he doesn't, half the time it doesn't even seem engaged.

And I just haven't, I haven't seen enough to tell me that there is some great player unlocked in that waiting to be unlocked in him.

My understanding is he was way more beat up

during his rookie season, especially than it led on, right?

And if you have guys that are that size, right, because he had outlier size, there's an advantage to, okay, he becomes this power forward, lanky type player who wins in jump ball situations, or he becomes a guy that presents a massive target over the middle for guys to hit and to exacerbate hip hip injuries, lower body injuries.

You just have more surface area for guys to lay into.

And so I think Pitts would be great in certain offenses.

Justin Herbert prefers taller wide receivers.

Lamar Jackson, in certain cases, prefers taller wide receivers for when a play breaks down and he's just throwing the ball to the highest set of hands.

Those are kind of situations that Kyle Pitts can excel in.

But if you want to tell me that, okay, just plug and play him somewhere else where he's got to go over the middle all the time, it's not going going to happen.

You've got to accentuate what he can do physically without leaving him exposed like he has been over the earlier portions of his career.

The Chargers have been mentioned

in whispers a bunch around this, and the Giants as well.

Fire beware.

Do you see what I mean, though, Dan?

That, like, just because in sports, coaches can think they can fix what someone else is.

Oh, no, I agree with you with that.

And there's certainly probably at least one GM coach out there that thinks that, and perhaps there's 15.

I'm just saying, like, I feel like I haven't seen enough of it.

And even more troubling to me is the general energy around him and the way he's spoken of by the team that makes me think.

That part is concerning.

This is a guy that came into the league, didn't become what they expected him to be.

He's already got a guaranteed first-round contract.

Like, what are we getting out of him?

Or is this

late period Darren Waller?

You know, or are we going to unlock and we're going to get early period Darren Waller?

It's worth it.

It's a shot.

I wouldn't give up this supposedly reported day two draft pick to get somebody else's bust.

Sure.

All right.

In other news, Scott Zolak.

He is the

color.

He's a journalist.

He is the color man for Patriots Radio.

He used to be on our show a lot when the Patriots were a good team.

He is also

an

ascentient

36-ounce bottle of Mountain Berry Powerade.

These are all true facts.

And he was on a radio program.

His radio program, in fact, 98.5, the sports hub.

He talked about Stephon Diggs and the controversy around Diggs and the mysterious pink powder and the idea that

Stephon Diggs, who the Patriots are counting so much on and gave a nice contract a few months back?

Is he potentially playing himself off the team?

Here is Zolak.

Do you think Diggs should be cut?

Do I think he should be cut?

You.

I don't.

I do not.

I came to the show yesterday with the

opinion, not opinion, but the knowledge of that it is on the table.

He said that he added that it's not just the boat.

It's not just the boat.

There are some other things that I've heard that put some things in question.

Are you all in

here?

So that's interesting.

And then

I saw Florio, I believe, was wrote on PFT that when you look at his contract, which was,

you know, again, ridiculous.

It was like three years for $66 million and all this other things.

But in reality, he'll never see all of that.

And if he doesn't pass a physical, remember, he's coming off an ACL, there is a possibility that the Patriots could wiggle out of the contract entirely.

Although I would imagine the Players Union would have a major issue with a team-employed doctor dictating whether or not he ever gets paid.

We'll see how it all plays out.

But yeah, Zolak, who, again,

I have feelings about him in terms of serious journalism, Mark, but also he is very close to the team, and it just makes you wonder where they are on him right now.

This is a place where I think Zolak is hearing real things.

And it's also not the most surprising report on this human being, this player.

I mean, it feels like it tracks him almost anywhere he goes to some degree.

I tend to think that if I were going to sign someone to this kind of a contract, I would want to know what kind of relationships they're in in general.

Like, are you a grounded married person?

Or, and, you know, and it's like

we've seen it with our friend Bill Belichick, but like new relationships,

a little bit rocky, can cause problems.

And I'd say that's probably heightened when it's Cardi B.

So, you know, this is suddenly his offseason is becoming one of the bigger.

I'll put this on Cardi B.

Well, I would just suggest I'd think Cardi B might be, it's not like he's dating Holly Hobby, so it's like a, you know, it's a little different.

You know what?

I need someone else's opinion on this.

I think we need, how about the opinion of a woman?

How about the opinion of a Patriots fan?

How about the opinion?

of an all-around American badass.

And, you know, having her on on Pride Month, I mean, that's another thing to do.

And, you know, that's me.

Mark might have pushed back behind the scenes, but I said we have to have this person on.

Erica Tamposi, better known as Ricky Hollywood, joining Heed the Call.

What's up, baby?

Hey, Ricky.

Hi.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Can you turn your mic up, Ricky?

You're a little

far away.

Anything we could do on that end?

Can you hear me now?

Ah, yeah.

Ah, yeah.

Is that good, Justin?

How's that?

What's up, Eric?

Trekkers.

Hello.

You look wonderful.

What a surprise.

Thank you.

Hello.

How are you?

I'm doing great.

How are you guys?

Happy Pride.

Yes.

Yes, Mark.

First of all, like, I have a history of hanging out with Ricky Hollywood in West Hollywood.

I have a history of hanging out with Ricky Hollywood in West Hollywood.

Right, Erica?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but what do you, what do you want me to, yeah, you do.

You're like the mayor of West Hollywood.

I saw you like just like, we were walking.

This was during like the, a couple years ago during the Pride Week, and it was the streets are on fire and like

probably 50 different people came up to say hi to Ricky.

And I was like, who are you?

She is.

She's the president of the Pink Pony Club.

I sure am.

Hey, Rick.

So we got it.

We got to know, we have to know your feelings on the entire Diggs drama.

I mean,

we now, the floor is yours.

Okay, first of all, right?

It's Cardi B.

Um, and don't mind my little robot here.

I think everyone has like different like states that they're holding up an unidentified pink substance right now.

I think

this is my amino acids for like hydration.

Oh,

so like supposedly,

if you're on a boat, right, with Cardi B and no offense, those girls were like pretty thirsty, right?

Yes.

Oh man.

They were real thirsty.

And I think that I think Stefan was being a gentleman and was making sure that they had their hydration when you're out on the boat under the sun.

It's hot.

You're getting a little motion sickness.

Maybe you've had a little bit too much to drink.

Yeah, you got, I mean, it is what it is, you know?

In that case, the Patriots coaching staff would look favorably on his behavior.

Right.

I mean, I think, yeah, could he have maybe been, you know, at the practice, maybe?

Yeah.

But I think we need that kind of energy in New England, don't you think?

A little bit of a

little bit of a bad boy vibe.

Is that what you mean?

Like somebody in there that, yeah, to add some excitement and sizzle.

It's been a good idea.

I'm a great guy.

I'm actually a great guy.

Yep.

That.

Yeah, okay.

I like that.

I think there's a

obviously since post-Brady, there hasn't been a lot of sizzle to the steak up there.

And I know I'm sure you are, because I know a lot of New England fans are drinking the Kool-Aid about Drake May.

But he does need, yeah, as you drink from still now a mysterious pink liquid.

We're just.

You know, we're going to assume that is what you say it is, which is a hydrating agent.

Yeah, like, but you're saying adding a little bit of a someone that's not so boring and buttoned up in a post-Belichick world is not the worst thing, okay.

I feel that, yeah, I think it's not the worst thing.

I think it's also a sign of like horrible things to come at the same time,

so it's like also um very concerning.

I think, yeah, the internet is obviously blowing that up.

It doesn't really seem like Vrabel really cared that much.

He's like, Yep, we I talk to my players every day, like I thought he seemed pretty pissed.

Yeah, maybe I'm just like so desensitized that I was like, oh, it's fine.

You can't prove anything.

Like let the boys play.

Well, they could drug test them just as a side concept.

Right, right.

But also you're dating Cardi B.

You have to maintain,

you know, you have to live up to that.

You can't, you got to stay hydrated.

You just got to.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

It's a tightrope to walk.

You know, you're a post-30-year-old wide receiver.

You're coming off a

reconstructive knee surgery, but you also, you have to be on a lot of boats and you got to be on a lot of red carpets and you got to be courtside.

Maybe, and thank you, Erica, for giving us this other perspective.

Maybe we should be more understanding that to be a professional athlete and also Cardi B's newest boy toy is a lot of pressure and a lot of stress.

And there's got to be different ways to relieve such stress.

That's that's really

yeah.

Coming into the to the division, you're going to face your,

you know, your old breakup with the bills like I think there's a lot more going on with him than we give him credit for and I think he kind of you know got shut out, you know in the past with his injury and then it didn't really go that well, you know, I think I think we need to all just realize that he's struggling and it's like really

we should all the new Erica Tamposi.

We should be more empathetic and I think understanding of they're not just players, you guys.

They're people.

Applause, Justin.

You got to hit the applause on that one.

See, that, listen, former producer, current producer.

Should have had the applause teed up for her on that one because that was a smoldering take of empathy.

Yeah, that's going to be great.

Clipped off, yeah, for sure.

That's a total clip off.

That's a total clip.

So to sum it up, Erica, an extension should be in order for the Patriots and Stephon Diggs at this point.

Absolutely.

Drake May is going to be, I think he's going to just totally take off under Rabel.

I'm excited.

I think to have a superstar with Cardi B on the sidelines talk about the Taylor Swift effect.

Let's get Cardi B to Boston, baby.

Let's go.

It's going to be great.

She's a New York girl.

I don't know if that's happening.

Yeah, it's probably not going to happen.

She's never going to go.

Yeah.

All right, Erica.

It's great seeing you.

So good seeing you.

Mark apparently has seen you in West Hollywood, so maybe he'll see you again soon.

He has it.

He's just using it for pride, Clout.

That is not true, Mark.

Thanks for your text over the weekend by the way yeah you're welcome where were you guys i don't know i was out of state actually oh really okay mark where were you this weekend

right here

all right this is i'm getting awkward and we should end end this section yeah this is i'm i gotta go i'm i'm going out on a boat today um but i hope you guys have a great rest of you

okay man some these are some troubling uh breadcrumbs we got to get nancy reagan's ghost on the phone.

Ricky, thank you very much.

You're the best.

Love you guys.

So good to see you.

There she goes.

The queen.

The queen, one of the all-time greats on Mount Rushmore.

Justin, you always feel Justin getting a little tighter when Ricky shows up.

Big shoes to fill.

I've been trying to fill them for, you know.

One year on, one year off, another year on, right?

Because I left and came back.

Jesus Christ, Justin.

Yeah.

about 18 seconds before she appeared I saw Justin take a massive vape hit so I think we're getting some of the runoff there

all right let's take a break and we'll be right back with the rest of the news

hey oh mark did you know that there are some people that are fans of our show that have yet to interface with our patreon.com slash heed the call brand

I find that distressing and yet sometimes with human nature you can't rely on anyone, everyone, to understand what's happening here.

Why would you not sign up and be part of this?

It's one of the more exciting things occurring at the moment.

We do.

We love doing the content on the Patreon.

It allows us to do different things and stretch our legs a little bit and be creative in a different way.

We have shows like the Friday Fun Show, which is an extension of the Heath the Call brand, where we're a little bit loose and fun in a bite-sized version of the regular show.

We have Rolling Thunder, of course, with Mark Sessler and Jason Zumwalt, which was in 10 seconds or less.

Mark, how would you describe that program?

It is multifaceted.

We go on long rambles and rants and discussions about a topic that's going to be different every time.

And it's a nighttime show.

We film it late at night.

Very fun.

There's also the Throwback Pod, which is coming back after a hiatus.

Me and my bosom buddy from high school, Bob Castrone, breaking down our favorite music from our coming of age years.

And yes, it's new.

It's fresh.

It's a hit.

It came from the subreddit, a monthly program where we dig in to the fan reaction to Heed the Call, and we

get in the discourse.

We dig our hands into the subreddit for Heed the Call and talk about what the fans are talking about.

That and so much more is on patreon.com/slash Heed the Call.

So, make sure you're involved.

There are different tiers of involvement that allow you to access

our content and also help the show and help us in a way that I don't know allows Mark to

get braces for the daughter that he befriended on the streets of Hollywood.

That is precisely what I plan to do with the money.

Yes, exactly.

Check it out.

Eat the call on Patreon.

Bye.

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All right, we are back.

Let's get back into it.

And

I can never, ever turn down Russell Wilson sound bites.

It's I can't quit them.

Wilson, by all accounts, Connor, is, you know, maybe, oh, and this maybe is something we should revisit very soon.

The Dalton line of quarterbacks.

He's either below it, or I don't think there's any way he's above it.

Or maybe he is the line at this point.

The retirement of Derek Carr.

Yeah, let's talk about it.

You know what?

Let's talk about that next week.

We're going to hit the Dalton scale next week.

But Russ hasn't been a big-time quarterback for several years now.

He was on 7 p.m.

in Brooklyn, a podcast.

Everybody's got a podcast.

With Carmelo Anthony, Mello, the former Nick.

And here he was talking about how he still sees greatness in his NFL career.

I've been here before.

You know, when you walk into a stadium, into a locker room, and you know, like my locker is the same locker I had when I won the Super Bowl.

And so for me, when I see that, I'm like, When I walk into that stadium, I'm like, I've been here before, like, not just been here, but like, like, we did this before.

And so I fundamentally believe it's possible again in terms of just being successful again and being at the highest level.

Connor, is there, can he surprise people?

I know we've had this conversation before, but playing in a new offense, playing with Dable, playing with a potential superstar, number one receiver in Malik Neighbors,

it's not going to be easy.

He's got Winston in there.

He's got a

first-round draft pick or a second-round draft pick there.

No, first round draft pick, excuse me, in Jackson Dart.

Is there any path?

I think so.

I mean, so I think we need to kind of adjust our,

we need to go back and look at what Russ was when he was Russ in our minds, right?

And peak Russ was 26 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 26 touchdowns, 9 interceptions,

34 and 8, 21 and 11, 34 and 11, 31 and 5, 40 and 13 at its absolute best, right?

In Pittsburgh.

Well, and there was also the rushing side of it when he had that athleticism.

So he kind of gave you that as well.

Just want to throw that in there.

Yes.

And he did extend more plays, which I think is something that he's figuring out.

But even in a full last full year under Payton, he was 26 and 8 and then 16 and 5 last year in 11 games.

The actual passing numbers are not that bad, especially when you're looking at

when you get below that top 15 of starting quarterbacks.

It is an absolute disaster scenario in terms of, okay, are we grasping at Spencer Rattler or are we hoping for one more year out of Joe Flacco or Daniel Jones or all that?

And I would take Russell Wilson over the lot of those guys because, I mean, listen, Russell's got to figure out how to be Russell without the athleticism and escapability in the backfield.

Like, I don't, I think he can always pick up a first down with his legs.

What I don't know if he can do is evade rushers and extend plays behind the line of scrimmage like he used to be able to do.

If he can find another gear in that sense, and now he's had two years to work through it, I mean, 26 and 8 for the Giants in terms of touchdowns and interceptions last year would have been a game changer for a quarterback like that.

I mean, you know, so I don't know.

It depends on what we mean by another gear.

Can he have a late season,

a late career spoon where he latches onto a half-decent team and makes a couple of playoffs?

I think so.

Yeah.

He's turning 37.

So a lot of the game is.

He's getting old, right?

It surprises me that he's entering his age 37 season.

Well, especially when we were

engaged covering the sport when he was a rookie and basically surprised everyone and was the starter.

I wonder what the coaching staff's plan is.

Is Jackson Dart someone that you want to get in there and see much more of earlier than later?

He could be derailed by that kind of situation.

I think Russell Wilson of last season was...

Like we're saying it, he's fine.

Do I think he's going to kick up a gear and be like the Russell Wilson of age 26?

No, I don't.

But I don't think he's expecting that.

Yeah, I think that's what's, when you watch him,

that's what's missing the most is those young legs and that ability, like you're saying, Connor, to extend the plays and then go scramble for 20 yards.

And he, and, you know, and in fairness, and it's not a shot against him, but he was also in the ultimately, the ultimate, like, QB friendly setup in his heyday when he had one of the best running backs of his generation behind him in Marshawn Lynch and arguably the greatest defense of the 21st century in the Legion of Boom Seahawks.

And then he was just a perfect complement to that.

When you take him in this situation where he's probably going to be playing on a Giants team where the defense isn't going to be on the high-end side of things, although they have talent on that side of the ball,

you're asking him to do more and he has less to work with.

So I think he does, I think it's, to me, I still think he's the quarterback coming out of training camp, but I do think it's Dart by week five.

And

what Wilson has to speak this way because that's how he's wired.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up that there's some fountain of youth scenario happening here.

I would take the over on it just because, in terms of I think he will hold the job for longer than five weeks.

That's my over four and a half starts.

I think he'll double that.

Okay.

I would take the overall.

What if Dart lights it up in training camp and in preseason, and then you've got a coaching staff fighting for their lives.

I mean, I, you know, there's all sorts of what-ifs and different scenarios that can present themselves.

But I keep thinking of, I remember talking to people on the

inside the Dave Canalis circle when I was profiling him when he was in Tampa Bay, and now he's in, obviously, in Carolina.

And that same group was the group that was kind of the brainpower behind the Let Russ cook years where, okay, he didn't win an MVP, but he's throwing 40 touchdowns.

And I think what Russ may end up having with Brian Dable this year that he hasn't had since then is, you know, and it goes both ways.

You have to have a coach that's willing to pick him apart and install things that are only within his realm of capability, right?

But then you have to have Russ trust those coaches to know that, like, I'm not going to go rogue here and I'm not going to go outside of the realm here.

I'm going to stick within my heat map here and I'm going to play within my heat map.

If Brian Dable can get him back to that, I think a good player is still in there.

I mean, I think we still got something.

Subplot for the 2025 regular season.

All right, pivot.

Jason Kelsey.

What a guy.

Everybody loves Jason Kelsey, the retired center from the Philadelphia Eagles.

Last time he was in the news, he played a role, we're told, a vital role in saving the tush-push with an impassioned speech.

And now, to his credit, and this means even more to me, Conman, last week, you and I were at two opposing ends of the discussion around this idea of the flag football team that would represent the usa in the summer olympics here in los angeles i was of the opinion that hey

just get the the most the biggest most athletic guys from the nfl give them a runway and let them destroy everyone 92 dream team style you said no no no no These guys are trained in a specific version of football that is totally different from the version you see on Sundays, and you're much better off going with these amateurs.

Here comes, Connor.

Here comes Jason Kelsey with a solution.

This was said on the latest or recent episode of the New Heights podcast he does with Travis.

I kind of am on board with these guys playing.

Let's just have these guys play an NFL team that's picked and maybe the best team win.

It represents the USA.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Hey, I have that Wayne's World hat that Travis Kelsey is wearing.

It's so dumb.

So, wait, let me just add a little more background on it, Connor.

His theory was take the guy that kind of runs the flag football team and have him scout the NFL and find the players that are the best fit physically for the style of game.

And then once that team is selected, then you have them play.

The winning team goes to the Olympics.

I believe that is not only a fun event that I would watch, A, so NFL has a chance to make some more money, so it checks that box, then maybe it does ensure that we know which team should be going to

the Olympic Games.

What I don't understand is why we can't come to the sensible solution that you identify one or two players, and my number one flag football NFL player would be Amon Rao St.

Brown.

I think he would be the best flag football player in the NFL.

Why can't we identify like one or two of those guys and put them on the roster and make it nice and package them with the flag football guys and move forward without creating a scenario where we have a flag football team full of professionals who are coming off of an 18 17 game season this is their rest period and now we're asking them to ramp up at a in a way that they're not used to physically to learn a new sport to do all this stuff i mean we've been over this before and it's made me far too angry but the common sense solution was to always take one or two of these guys and to add them to supplement on the roster.

I have a list of these players.

I've looked it all up.

Like,

I've thought way too much about this because it makes me incredibly upset.

But, like, Cooper DeGene, for example, high school quarterback.

Because so, here's the thing: let me back up.

Dude, because there's going to be 15 of those guys that you could pick.

This is the NFL.

Come on, pepper them in there.

I like that.

Okay, so I went back and I watched our gold medal game against Austria and re-watched it.

And what sets the U.S.

apart from other teams.

So Austria had this very beefy Ben Rothesberger-looking guy guy at quarterback who takes a deep shotgun snap hangs back and just fires the ball downfield right interesting it's it's like schoolyard right you're just so we could have like stafford who was asked about being on the team he was like oddly a coach but if they want me but but somebody who is just a pocket passer with absolute precision no no no we don't want that so what the u.s has are like five guys who can all throw and all catch and what it does is it adds a completely different dimension to our offense because you can't, a quarterback can't sneak unless he is first given the ball as a declared ball carrier.

And then

he can give away the ball, get it back, and then break the line of scrimmage, right?

So like for all these people saying like, oh, Lamar Jackson, perfect, whatever.

No, because you have to scheme him to be able to break the line of scrimmage as a ball carrier.

So what's great about the U.S.

flag football team is everyone can throw and everyone can catch.

And so you want this across the board, amoebic talent.

That's why we keep winning gold medals.

That's the thing.

Like we keep

winning gold medals.

I kind of can't believe we're back here.

Here we go.

Connor, listen, listen.

This actually makes me concerned about your take a little bit because if you're so confident about this,

why would we take the half measure of putting some guys on the team?

You know, the like supplemental.

Use my Simpsons analogy.

So now Homer can't play, right, because Dow Strawberry is the only guy that wasn't felled by some mysterious bad luck.

Like, let's either go all in or not at all.

And if we just,

if we have the NFL versus the amateurs, then we will be good.

We'll know and then we just go for it.

None of this like half in, half out stuff.

It's terrible PR for the NFL if this flag football team beat them.

We can't live in our fears.

We can't.

We cannot live in our fears.

We have to have the faith that the NFL has the greatest collection of athletes this country has to offer.

There is one other little thing that I've noticed about all this because it's like, oh, the Olympics are popping up in the news.

Just give us a second.

We'll grab the attention back, says NFL.

Like they've found a way to get, oh, we're interested in the Olympics.

Like, no, no, no, this is an NFL story.

It's a fair point only because of Connor's point, which is also a fair point, that we're already winning the gold medals with our amateur guys.

This isn't like the dream team of 92

where the U.S.

was falling short and it was like, enough of this.

We invented basketball.

I feel that.

And if this is an NFL-driven thing to, again, as we've been tracking in many ways for years now, like, how do we win

when is it one of the Olympics?

August?

How do we win August in a more thorough manner?

There's a cynicism that's allowed to creep in here.

But I'm just

straight from the Jason Kelsey fun little talking point on his podcast with Trav.

It sounds fun to me.

I just want sports to be fun and watch fun things, and that would be fun to watch.

Yes,

I don't want to spoil it, and I won't get into it.

I read a lot about the 2004 men's Olympic basketball team, which is one of the most disastrous dream teams ever put together and the politics behind it.

And I think the one thing that is worth mentioning is that, so Roger Goodell, as the commissioner of the NFL, places board members onto the head of USA football.

So he has a say in basically the USA football's say in flag football.

If we allow this to become a political shitfire mess, mess, we are headed down the same road as 2004 when we had a mismatch collection of superstars and developmental players, and it didn't work out, and we'll be embarrassed.

So, mark my words.

Which would be kind of fun too, wouldn't it?

Yeah, that's dark.

The NFL got a little egg on its face.

Would that be the worst thing?

If the NFL had a little bit of ego death, if Roger Goodell looked bad, that's all kind of fun business, too.

If we think that Deion Sanders was going to learn his lesson about ego death, do we think

the NFL is going to?

No, I don't think so.

Quick football note here on the transaction side, the 49ers are finalizing a trade with the Eagles for Bryce Huff for a mid-round pick.

This is the type of stuff that happens every year in the NFL.

A player, in this case, Bryce Huff was a

really good situational pass rusher for the Jets when Robert Sala was the head coach.

And then he left and got a big contract with the Eagles last offseason.

Out of Sala's defense, fish out of water with the Eagles, did nothing for Philly.

It was a really bad deal.

So Philly is going to cut bait, and he sends it back to the San Francisco 49ers.

Who have a new defensive coordinator named?

Wait for it.

Robert Sala.

So one of those things.

So you get a depressed asset.

You bring him back to the system where he once thrived.

And these things work a lot as well.

So as long as it's not at a high cost, that's another smart and sensible move by San Francisco.

Leonard Floyd left.

They needed to amp up that position.

And you'd think if you were Bryce Huff a year ago, there's no better landing spot for me than the Eagles.

Like, just because of the way they do things, they're smart at they picked me up.

It's going to work.

And it went south.

He had injuries.

I mean, there's a wrist injury, all this other stuff.

And like, he was deactivated for the Super Bowl.

It went very badly at the end.

This is the best fit for him because he's with someone that knew how to turn him on.

And so if I'm him.

I love what's happening here.

Mm-hmm.

And

finally,

in the news,

we end on, we mentioned ego death.

We're going to end on mortality and death.

I was waiting for Justin to hit the drop, but he was drinking out of a shake of some kind.

Wait, you want me to start this?

I was going to ask, is that a milkshake?

What is that?

It's a smoothie.

Jessica just made it.

We have been on a smoothie lunch diet.

What's in it?

What's in that?

The banana, strawberry.

Can you hold it up again?

It's a sizey smoothie.

Is this part of the show?

Yes.

Welcome to the off-season, baby.

That looks good.

We don't know what's in it.

Banana, strawberry.

Is there pink powder in it by any chance?

Well, it is pink.

No, I didn't know if you were going to tee up the song or if you just want me to hit it.

Go ahead.

yes we end today's show with a funeral

dove climan rest in peace you know i

we've been tracking dove for a while here dove some call him

but it is this tweet from a few weeks ago

Around Michael Pennix

that

led to Dobb Dobb dying.

Falcon star QB, by the way, where's this?

They don't even have the like inspirational colon.

He's just getting sloppy on top of it.

Falcon star QB Michael Pennix Jr.

has the tightest balls you will ever see.

Hands on the face, howling emoji, the definition of a perfect spiral.

And it was at this point where

I knew, Connor, that there's nothing,

there's nothing about Dav that you could even defend at this point.

You don't put a Titus Balls tweet there without

obviously begging for engagement.

And I know that was always part of Dov's game, but now he's lost the nuance of it.

He's lost grip of the art

of this shitpost.

And

as a result, on this show at least, Dov is dead.

Long live Dav,

but he has passed away.

Any words to share on this very difficult day?

I'm generally down on

society and our ability to discern real information and truthful information from bad information.

And so I'm glad that we're calling attention to it.

I would say now that the ripple is what I'm interested in.

Now that we've identified him as a shit poster, we've identified the potential financial implications of him shit posting and how well he does it.

Now it's the amount of time that it takes for the rest of the world to catch on that will really kind of measure my concern with society in general.

And it's just kind of a microcosm of like football loving society.

But how long will it take for the rest of us to just get him out of our lives and stop him from gaming an algorithm for his own financial gain?

That's my question.

It's perfectly said.

Like,

you know, the Dob of old was always a bit of an agitator and an annoyance.

Like, I always found him to be a little bit of that.

But he really had, I think, in the last calendar year, like a John Lennon in LA year when he broke up with Yoko and he just went absolutely crazy.

Like, these posts have become more insane.

The darker part of me believes that we've just sent an AI bot into the ground and one that has no feelings or anything and not attached to any sort of

human lifespan.

But Dav, you're out there somewhere and you're not out there anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that was.

I tried to respect the game, but once he stopped respecting the game, tightest balls.

You stood up for him before it turned crazy.

Yes.

I respected his aggregation and the effort he put into becoming a big-time figure.

There were other elements of him when the reporting came out and he was scrutinized that seemed less glamorous.

So sometimes it was difficult to defend Dav Kleinman.

But now, after his Titus Balls tweet, we must come to grips and terms with the idea that Dav is dead and we have to find someone else that can do this job a little better.

So, sound off in the comments

and share your favorite Dav memories.

There's like 15,000.

Memorable colon.

That's a good call to action.

There's like 15,000 UK listeners that are like, thank God they're going to stop talking about this guy who we don't know who he was to begin with.

Israel weeps.

Dav is dead.

Long live, Dav.

All right.

Good app.

Inspirational.

Colin.

Back from the dead?

Colon.

Tomb empty, colon.

We'll be back on Thursday with another ep.

We've been sending out a few mailbag prompts.

And we send, you know, hit us up.

Both a mailbag and the voicemail.

If you want to go ahead, Justin, jump in on that.

I just want to say we appreciate the over 90 mailbag responses we've gotten.

But guys who are responding and gals or whatever you define yourself as, we need good questions that we can use on the show that aren't like, give your top 10 players at every position across the league, like, can we, like, let's get these questions into a place that, like, helps the show and isn't going to be like a 45-minute conversation answer.

That's my producer.

Why are you guys yelling at these people?

I don't know, but I love it.

You know what?

It's because we know, Connor, we have the relationship in the bottom of the listeners that we could push them to be the best version of themselves, even in the mailbox.

Prod them a little.

Yep.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's like good coach.

Any good athlete appreciates good coaching.

Any good listener appreciates tips on how to make the mailbag.

Just a little better for us so we can actually use because we you want your tweet right on the show, right?

We want to read it just better for us better for us concise exactly yes all right so new uh episode coming up on thursday of course friday fun show at the end of the week as well over on the patreon uh thank you to everyone uh for listening and until next time do what you must heed the call

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Insurance.

Financial services.

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Financial services.

Now when I say nationwide, you say is both.

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Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finrick, Columbus, Ohio.