2025 NFL Team Optimism Rankings

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The Heed the Call Podcast

announces the 2026 NFL draft will be held in the mind of Mark Sessler.

It's the offseason, baby.

Welcome to Heed the Call.

Dan Hans is here.

Mark Sessler, Connor Orr, Justin Graeber on the ones and twos.

That would be an interesting place.

Especially like day two.

Too long of an event to

be encapsulated only in my mind.

Like I need other people to do some lifting here.

Connor, would you like to be at that event?

Absolutely.

There'd be just, there'd be brown liquor and like tie-dye, and

it would be really fun.

It'd be like the dark end of Woodstock, you know?

Like maybe Woodstock 99.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The limp biscuit one.

Yeah.

I

was a little bit thrown off.

We started a little late because

Justin ran into, you know, Justin moved to Texas, picked up and left us, Mark.

It's a very sore subject still for the show

for a better life.

Wilson trees are on fire in Los Angeles, so it's like, you know, pack up the car.

Living in a much larger property at half the cost.

I call that garbage.

Senseless.

But when you are

now, you know, Lord of the Manor, you're going to have to deal with things like Justin told us he had to stop down his pre-production because there was a man outside mowing his lawn, which, you know,

unbelievable scenario unfolding in North Texas this morning.

Yeah, not something I've encountered yet here as a home living in home renter, not a homeowner, home renter.

Just had to go outside and be like, hey,

what's happening here?

Do I mind

having to mow our front yard?

I don't mind, but

bodyline happens.

Is your chest popped out as you storm through the front door?

How does Justin Graver approach this confrontation?

I wasn't looking for a confrontation.

I was merely inquiring as to what's happening here in front of my house.

So I go up to the guy and the HTC Media Insider actually got a little excerpt of the conversation between you and the area landscaper.

Let's listen in.

You mow my lawn.

Hmm.

I just don't ever want you mowing my lawn.

All right.

I like mowing my lawn.

That's, you know, the picture of masculinity right there.

It was something like that.

Actually, before I even said anything, I just started walking up to him with sort of a confused look on my face.

And before I said any words, he goes, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

Wrong house.

I'm so sorry.

And I was like, you don't have to be sorry.

No, I don't have to mow the front yard.

Thank you.

And Justin noted that minutes later, it started pouring rain.

So if you're the lawnmower guy, like, not a great morning.

You've not been paid.

Of course, Justin paid him no money for what, you know,

but you don't get paid.

And then you're at the wrong house.

You're meant to be next door.

And then it starts raining day over.

I'm sorry, Justin.

did you wait until he finished mowing your lawn to tell him that you did not pay for the service because that would be pretty in terms of like the judeo-christian like methods of being a human that feels like would fall outside the bounds of um just decency well you know i'm upstairs in the office here i don't have a window to outside and We heard the mower going off.

Jessica texted me and said, I think somebody's mowing our lawn.

And I said, what?

What does that mean?

And she's like, yeah, I can see them out my window in my office.

Somebody's mowing our lawn.

And I was like, Should I go confront them?

And she was like, She's like, He's calling him about to get off.

He's like,

She was like, I'm about to get off this call.

I can go talk to him.

And I was like, Okay, good, because I have, we're about to start recording.

And then, like, five minutes later, she was like, I think he's going to the backyard.

And I was like, Okay, I'm going to see what's happening.

And then I went outside, and he had not gone to the backyard, he had gone to the neighbor's house that he was supposed to be mowing.

Got it.

And that's where I, that's where I encountered him.

Shirtless, the guy cut up like Justin Baldini.

You know, one of those situations potentially.

No, he was in like a hoodie with a hat because, again, it was pouring down rain outside.

All right.

Well,

I guess it all ended in a good spot for you.

Justin comes out on top again.

Good job, buddy.

Coming up on today's show,

this is highly, highly scientific.

I spent the morning,

which was not easy because I had a hangover.

I just want you to know that.

I spent the morning using my tabulations,

a data processing

IP that I will not share with anyone.

Remember our old bud Cynthia at NFL Media?

She had, what was it called, Mark?

It was called a.

Well, it was, I mean, I viewed it as some sort of in-apartment motherboard, but it was like

a computerized type.

Yeah, there was a name for it.

It was like, yes, it was like a motherboard mainframe that she said she literally kept in her bedroom.

And I just pictured it as this like big, huge piece of 1950s computer equipment that was against her dresser.

But, you know,

I have that type of thing going on for this to come up with the optimism rankings entering 2025.

Which teams are the most optimistic about their chances for success in the upcoming season?

So I'm going to share those.

But before we do that, some news.

Take back your freaky piece of shit.

You don't move another guy's lawn.

All right.

All right.

Unbelievable.

Consistent issue for Woody Harrelson here.

It's different in Texas.

Like, the vibes are different in Texas.

You don't come on another man's property and not expect something.

And Justin has had to adjust to being that type of individual now.

Seamlessly.

All right.

In the news.

Oh, no.

I feel like Trump is getting in the show a lot lately, but I guess he's getting in a lot of things lately.

The president has announced himself where the site of the 2000s.

We've already established it.

Next year's draft will be in Mark's head, but the 2027 draft will be held in Washington, D.C.

Here is a little bit from the sitting president.

I'm pleased to reveal that the...

2027 NFL draft, that's a big thing, will be held right here in our nation's capital, Washington, D.C., on the National Mall.

And you get a little glimpse of it.

I don't think, I was just saying to Roger, I don't think there's ever been anything like that.

That's a good idea.

In fact, maybe we could use it for other things also.

I have an idea.

It's going to be beautiful.

That took place in the White House.

Josh Harris was there.

Commanders might come up a little bit later.

But that is the latest

for a commanders organization that also was recently announced.

I will be building a new stadium on the site of the old RFK stadium.

So a lot cooking down there in Washington and the draft.

I do like that visual, the idea of it on that grand concourse in Washington.

That will probably be quite a sight and another victory for the NFL.

Are we sure, though, that we want to get that far down with the nation and its politics and its current climate that, like, two years from now, we're projecting that everything's going to be okay and acceptable enough that we're holding a Tedpole event of the NFL, like right outside the White House?

Like, I'm not, this isn't a political statement.

I'm just saying, like, as a country, we're not really like on even keel right now.

So, you know, let's get back to there first.

Maybe it's a little on the nose from that angle.

Though, I have actually been to, I went to school down in D.C.

and I went to a July 4th

evening at the mall and I don't think I've ever seen more people put into one place.

It works.

Like it's a good spot.

I understand where you're coming from, Connor, but it kind of works as a spot.

I once went on a date on the mall and you can take these long walks.

And this was a girl who I found out later that her father had been in national intelligence and disappeared 14 years earlier.

So she had some issues.

You got sex addiction?

You got a problem with sex?

No.

It was not going to work out that relationship.

What gives it the weird kind of angle on that, Mark, is that that actually turned you on more, that that disappeared.

I thought it was interesting.

But it wasn't something.

Well, it was intriguing.

There weren't a lot of, you know, et cetera, apart on some level.

I'll leave it there.

Absolutely.

All right, so that's what's going on.

A lot cooking in Washington right now.

More on them to come.

We had a little bit of contract news that came down on Monday.

The Rams and Matthew Stafford have finally finalized the terms on a new contract.

This per rap sheet, this deal was negotiated back at the NFL Combine.

Stafford will earn $44 million this year with $4 million already paid and the other $40 million fully guaranteed.

Conman, this

makes a lot of sense.

There was a bit of a,

from my perspective, anyway, exhausting element of the early part of the offseason where it's like, oh, Matthew Stafford to be traded.

Like, no, why would they trade Matthew Stafford?

He's a perfect fit there.

He's still playing at a high level.

No one knows the Sean McVay offense better.

This is a year-to-year proposition, it seems like, for Matthew Stafford at this point.

And that's totally fine as a guy.

I think he's 37 at this point.

So the Rams and Stafford do business.

A year-to-year proposition, but also not one where you're even doing the Packers thing, where you're installing some sort of a successor and you're sort of letting him know that there's a concrete timeline here.

The Rams had a great chance to get Jackson Dart, to get the kid from Louisville, to get any of these kind of fringe first, second round prospects.

But the only people that they were trying to trade up for were more weapons for Matt Stafford.

They obviously couldn't get up there that close in the first round, but that's where their head's at.

And I love that.

You know, figure out the quarterback position later.

Everyone wants to play for Sean McVay anyway.

And, you know, McVay...

was on the record on an interview a couple days ago saying that, you know, this took a while, but that they had had really honest talks.

And I kind of think it speaks to, and he kind of was sort of saying that this is his dude.

Like he didn't want to, and Jordan mentioned it too like last week that McVay was not at the point in time where he wanted to raise a rookie up from the dust that it's like this is his guy and maybe it's this year and next year and maybe it's a year after but Matthew Stafford to me like the seventh best quarterback in football at times and he still has an incredible athletic prowess and arm like he's a perfect match for a Rams team that I think they think they can go to the Super Bowl correct me if I'm wrong they say he loves Trump correct me if I'm wrong is there

ever been a quarterback that sean mcvey has raised from birth as it were since entering the nfl i mean you could say you could say goff was sort of that he took over goff was

i mean goff was there had a terrible year before but he he certainly developed goff um but you're right he hasn't done that stetson bennett would be the closest example right that would be his highest drafted quarterback to this point right and that's not gone well and stafford although that was i think there's more off-the-field stuff with bennett but in 2024, I'm a little surprised.

He did start 16 games, Stafford, threw just 20 touchdown passes,

but all of his metrics are high-end.

He still can play.

He's just, the offense is a little bit different.

It was three years ago that he threw 41 touchdowns for the Rams in 17 starts, but also led the league in interceptions with 17 that year.

So it's a different type of Stafford.

He's asked to do different things, but keep an eye on how this offense continues to evolve, Con Men, because now now you got Devontae Adams and Puka Nakua.

The Rams will be fun to watch, I imagine.

Yeah, I mean, that was always the rub with Goff, right?

Is like, if I design this thing, if I draw it up for you, can you see it the way that I see it?

And when I need you to hit the big throw, which is not going to be all the time, can you do it?

And I think Stafford still absolutely fits that bill, quite possibly better than, like Mark said, I mean, maybe four or five other quarterbacks in the league at this point.

And one little nugget there, like, I do wonder, because if this opened up money, like he'll get more obviously over long term, but is Jalen Ramsey someone that they're looking at?

And is that situation more feasible now?

Because I think they're moving money around to add people because the Rams don't stop.

Yeah, that's

feel like they've been dancing around that for a week now, and it's only a matter of time.

And Ramsey will be welcomed back into the fold.

In other news, oh, it's not going away.

It's not going away, Con Man.

The Abdul Carter

uniform drama.

and I don't understand somebody who is who is not talking to these kids someone talk to the kids about the damn 1986 New York Giants

all right can someone

let can someone let

Abdul Carter know that number one Lawrence Taylor is arguably the greatest defensive player who's ever lived who played his entire career with the Giants.

So asking for 56 was asinine.

You showed your whole butt when you did that.

And then you go for your backup option, number 11, bruh.

Dude, let me look this up.

I know it.

I'm not even a Giants fan, but I could tell you that in Super Bowl 21 in Pasadena, Sims goes 22 for 25, bro.

Broke records.

Yeah.

Broke records for accuracy in a blowout win over the Denver Broncos.

He is, Phil Sims might not be a Hall of Famer, but he is is a legendary giant for that reason.

It's why his number is retired.

So back to the drawing board with you, Abdul Carter.

Stop trying to get after the 1986 Giants legends.

Connor, just give it up.

This is to you, too.

Give it up.

Show some respect for the past.

No, and here's why.

I think what Abdul Carter is doing is he's exposing a massive flaw in the system, which we should all be talking about.

We should unretire all the numbers because this is getting f ⁇ ing ridiculous.

And Dan, I think, is a fan of a team.

It is getting ridiculous.

You're right.

A fan of a team whose premier player wears number 99 in baseball and looks like he's in the Taiwanese league trying to rehabilitate his career with that jersey.

It's ridiculous, right?

And so I, you know, if you do a deep dive on this, the Chicago Bears have so many retired numbers.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen.

They have so many retired numbers that they're running out of jerseys to give people and they can't retire brian urlacher's number and yet

while willie gilmore old willy gilmore from the bears has his number retired like bill hewitt from 1932 like who the knows who that guy is like and my thing is like time is

we're here for just a brief moment like give it up in the self-importance of like i was a big deal in the 80s and now you have to ask me to wear my number Like, just give it, like, that was your time.

You were in high school back then.

You're not in high school anymore.

Just let the dream go and die a peaceful death.

Like, I don't understand this.

Or in Mark's case, he was in college in 1986.

Okay, fair, fair.

You know, it gave a solution though, too.

Yeah.

If you're wearing a retired jersey, okay, a retired jersey number, you wear a, you sew a patch onto the chest with honoring every other person who had that number that was great.

Michigan did this in Jim Harbaugh's first year, I believe, and they unretired all the jersey numbers and made everybody wear the patch.

This is a win-win for everybody.

The NFL can sell the jerseys.

How many more people would buy like an Abdul Carter jersey with the Phil Sims patch or an Abdul Carter jersey with the Lawrence Taylor patch?

Like, forget about it.

And then

we're not worrying about this tributaries to people who have been six feet under for hundreds of years now.

I love the solution.

You're not just complaining because you came up with something that I think is visual and it kind of works for the league.

They gave Malik neighbors Ray Flatterty's

retired jersey a year ago.

So the Giant, Sims actually agreed to it.

And then his wife and daughter came out of the woodwork and said,

no, you're not doing it.

You know, old button-up son, button-up collared shirt son had something to say about it, too.

I don't know if he got involved or not, like the story I read, but he certainly,

all sorts of players are wearing retired numbers.

So to Connor's point, it's sort of dumb.

Like, I guess now you can ask for Y.A.

Tittle's number next.

I mean, I don't know what the next move is for Abdul Carter, but also my thing is if you're a player and you think that you're going to be a Hall of Famer, right?

Why would you not think that if you're him?

Then you take on Lawrence Taylor's number if he said yes, then you're sharing that retired jersey if you get yours retired with another player to begin with.

So it is becoming sort of a...

a Keystone cop scenario here.

It's a little crowded, a bit of a crowded house.

We also need to get ahead of the fact that we're deregulating the jersey numbers.

Everybody in high school and in college wants the same like 10 premier numbers, right?

The cool single digit numbers, the cool upper digit numbers.

And as we go over time, all these numbers are going to have to be retired over and over and over again.

And we're going to run out.

We're going to have like a mass jersey.

Connor, you're going to be dead.

It's not your problem.

It's my problem because I can fix it right now.

It doesn't need to be fixed.

Not everything needs to be fixed.

Not right now.

Here's a question for you, Dan.

Grows up and goes to Yankee Stadium, Dan, and they're taking their kids to Yankee Stadium, and the best player on the Yankees is wearing 69 in his pitch.

You are Yankees.

You don't want to have to explain the fact that this is ridiculously.

You are using the only example in the entirety of team sports where this could become a problem because the Yankees are the most dedicated

problem.

Tenths of the Bears are retired.

Ranchized in the history of professional sports in our country, and they do have a lot of retired numbers.

I have so many issues with everything you just said, including that 99 doesn't look amazing on Aaron Judge, literally the biggest player of the ever.

The teams have 10 jersey numbers retired.

It's a time issue, though, because like 50 years ago, this wasn't a problem because

time creeps on and more and more players retire and have their number retired, and you're losing

20% of your roster numbers.

We don't even need a solution, but here's the solution.

Teams just have to be very judicious about who they choose to retire.

It has to be this very best of the best in franchise history, and they'll have to be more judicious about it as time goes on when we're all dead and buried.

The idea of eradicating retired numbers is so disrespectful to those players and their impact on their teams and the sport itself.

And it just shows like this like cynical modernistic look at society where nothing that happened before me matters.

And the only thing that matters is the here and now.

So let's just clear the past.

It's like the cachet of your internet browser.

That's why I can't.

And like

the patch, then like you're kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth because then now we're doing something to remember them.

And you just said that we don't need to do that at all.

So I know you're saying it's uncompromised, but how about just keep the number retired?

Lawrence Taylor's 56 should never be worn again.

I agree with that.

But then you're giving shit.

We're still talking about that.

I know you're giving Cam Ward Warren Moon's jersey and no one down there seems to care.

Like that's to me is larceny.

That's a giant absurd.

14, 14 retired jersey numbers.

That's it's too many.

And so, what are we gonna do?

We're gonna purge it now, January 25th, 1987.

Giants 39, Broncos 20.

Phil Sims, 22 of 25, 88%, three touches, no picks, 11 yards, an attempt.

People forget they were losing at halftime.

12 numbers for the 49ers.

One, two, three, four, five.

Let's move on.

Eight, eight for the Titans.

I understand you're going to write about this

for Sports Illustrated.

Sports Illustrated.

Is that true?

You're going to be writing about this?

I am.

I can't wait to read it.

I'm going to go to Disney World.

I'm going to send...

Who's your editor?

I'm going to write a...

What was our old...

How did we start, Mark?

The ATL Debate Club?

It was a column that would never exist today called He Said He Said.

You're not getting that into a newspaper these days.

No, no.

Okay.

Moving on.

in other news

diana rossini

uh also

known by certain middle link quarterbacks as that lady uh reports that the 49ers turned down second round

right now 49ers turned down a second-round pick for george kittle the night before the draft niners made kittle the highest paid tight end in nfl history last week in case you missed it and are reported reportedly close to an extension at long last with brock purdy that would put him in the 50 million per year range, which is just

a little touch above Matthew Stafford, just so you have like a little chart in your mind.

And

that is what's going on with the Niners.

That's interesting.

A second-round pick for a tight end.

George Kittle, who, by the way, could get his number retired by the Niners.

He's been that impactful for them.

Interesting.

And a little bit of a look, a peek behind the curtain, Connor.

Like, he's 31.

He'll be 32 in October.

The fact that they they would pass up a premium pick to move a tight end at that age, again, speaks to the Niners aren't looking to go into some slow rebuild.

They're looking to win right away again.

If the Niners retired George Kittle's number, then there would only be seven numbers in the 80s that they could give out.

We got to move on, Connor.

Nine.

We got to move on.

I'm just saying there's too many damn numbers.

Anyway, go ahead.

Do you have any actual Kittle analysis or San Francisco analysis?

I do.

I have two thoughts.

First is it's always a good move by a team to leak that a team wanted to trade a high pick for you and that we didn't do it.

I think that's like a great pivot that a lot of general managers are doing lately.

You see that kind of coming.

I'd like to know who did it because I think that there are a couple teams, especially in the Shanahan tree, that probably needed someone like that and that knew that they weren't going to fall in line there.

Like Mike McDaniel comes to mind out of curiosity.

But I think that he is.

one of the biggest parts of this whole thing that doesn't get talked a lot about.

I mean, he's the guy that makes this work as a hybrid 11-12 personnel team.

He's the guy that blends it all together and exudes that style of play that made San Francisco great, that yards after the catch mentality.

So I think you lock him up as long as you can.

I mean, and it's, it's a, if they are in some sort of shift or rebuild, I don't think rebuild's the word, like it's a quick one.

Like they're not giving up on the future.

I wouldn't have given him up for a second rounder unless you're burning the house down.

Here's the team I think it was, the Texans.

That's just my guess.

It's just my spidey sense that it was the Houston Texans.

What are you basing that on?

A spidey sense.

So it's just an ethereal feeling.

Exactly.

Well, just like a sense,

a concept.

And it fits to the Shanahan tree part of it, but they feel like they could have taken a tight end when it done.

Well, a lot of teams would want to get all that.

Yeah.

Yes.

I was thinking the same thing, Mark, just quietly here producing the show.

I was thinking the Texans would make sense.

They use two day two picks on pass catchers.

They have that Shanahan scheme, and they don't have like a star tight end.

So that was the first team that came to mind for me also.

Spidey sense.

Unbelievable.

Two people.

Does it take away your spidey sense that he had it too?

It's kind of he's on your spidey sense corner in a way.

I feel like it's more like a coalition.

We're on the same page.

Yes, it does a little bit.

It was, it was, you know, it's like kind of hopped on it.

That's okay.

You know.

Thank you, Justin.

Let's check in on the Jordan Hudson Bill Belichick

front.

We talked about this a little bit last week.

Bill came out with a statement after we talked about this.

CBS, I believe, came out with a statement.

Everybody's worried about Bill Belichick.

I'm near the top of that list.

I asked Mark to step in personally and handle this business.

One thing that we didn't get to

from that now infamous CBS interview that

Belichick's young girlfriend lorded over was Belichick's, the horror in Bill Belichick's face.

And if you're watching this on YouTube, you could watch it now.

If you're listening, go check it out.

If you haven't seen it, when he realizes, oh shit, I agreed to take those insane Instagram photos and now a highly reputed journalist is asking it about me, asking about it to me on national television.

Okay, watch Bill's face.

You join InstaFace, as you put it.

I love that.

There's some great pictures of you in Jordan where you're a fisherman and she's a mermaid.

It's charming.

It's a different side of you.

What's the reality been like?

I don't know.

What's it been like?

To have these different sort of photos.

There's another one where you're doing, I know you're not into meditation or yoga or Pilates, but you're balancing Jordan on your feet.

I know I should.

You're doing kind of a Titanic pose.

Titanic.

Yes, so I'm on some of those social media platforms, but I honestly don't.

Follow them.

It also backfires now that he's wearing the old Navy shirt from the 40s that has the holes in it.

He kind of looks like a confused man who was just sleeping in a dumpster.

Like, it's like,

none of it's good.

We need to get in there.

He's got to get some PR flaks, get their hands around this thing.

ASAP.

I find the whole thing incredibly satisfying.

And I guess that a lot of people have pointed this out that I take a lot of joy in

the misfortune of others.

But the breakdown of the Patriots dynasty, which has just culminated in divorce and unhappiness and like all this stuff, just shows that like there's nothing perfect in life.

And so you don't have to just stress out all the time and think like, oh, God, why can't I be Tom Brady or Bill Belichick?

It's like, well, they got their own things going on that are, that would annoy you separately.

So well said.

Well said.

I am at the point where because it's gotten to such a place where he's getting ripped left and right by everyone, that I'm kind of tilting in the other direction.

And I'm like, it's not a dress rehearsal, baby.

Go have fun.

Like we, I think he literally doesn't care about what people think.

And, like, I don't think you want to get caught in the crosshairs on like a CBS interview again, but, like, dude, like, who cares?

Like, people will be a little bit upset about something five hours from now, but it's like, go be with this controlling young person if that's what you want to do.

I'm not in charge of you.

I do love the confidence, I suppose, or the

like, I don't know, she seems very new to the media business, but to tell like 60 Minutes or CBS Sunday morning, which 60 Minutes was previously like the gold journalistic standard of programming on television, and just to be like, no, no, we're only, we're doing a PR interview specifically for Bill's book.

It's just like, yeah, okay, that's not, that's not how this works at all.

Well said.

That's what's happening in the news.

Oh, man.

I got to tell you about Brunt.

Let's talk Brunt.

It's time.

I'm putting on my Brunt hat.

Ooh.

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And I thought I would go outside the front door to get my car, and I'd feel soft.

And

then I got my Brunts.

And now I got these boots, and I walk around with a lot of confidence because not only are they incredibly comfortable, but they deliver the protection and durability you need on the job site.

What job site doesn't matter.

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Don't let people put you in a box, Sess, right?

No, no, no.

I agree.

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Like, that's that's how it operates.

Right, because the man, the man storms out there with his chest out, like Gravedigger earlier today.

He sees you in those Brunts.

It's like, Excuse me.

See what?

Yeah, maybe only Brunt.

Maybe Brunts.

I'm picturing you, Mark.

Brunts cut off jean shorts.

Yep.

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All right.

Let's get into it.

Tabulation time.

I have gone through the entire NFL

and through the process of the 2024 season,

kind of figured that out.

Locked in all the right answers there.

Then went to free agency, studied the moves of all the teams, then the draft process, broke down every, how many picks were there?

250 some odd picks.

Put that data into my machine.

Put it in the algorithm, the algo mark.

We call it algo, people that are inside this type of world.

And spit out the teams that have the highest level of optimism entering the 2025 season.

So let's get to it.

And what I did just to give you a little and just to give you an idea of what Zuzzer, the work he was putting in with a hangover this morning, I went to the into the team subreddits of each of these teams to get a temperature of the way the fans are talking, their level of excitement, confidence, optimism, or, you know, lack thereof.

So what I'm going to give you here is a 10-to-1 countdown, most optimistic teams in the NFL entering 2025.

And then I'm just going to add one.

kind of uh one line for like a thread title in each of the forums that i went through, okay, that kind of give you an idea of where the fans are.

Let's start with number 10.

And you're going to think, oh, this is like the power rankings.

So just put the top 10 teams.

They're the most optimistic.

No.

Optimism is different than team level, skill, and ability in Super Bowl contenders.

Now, in some

cases,

yeah.

And in some cases, you're going to see it cross over.

But in other cases, the optimism is independent of success last season or lack thereof.

So anyway, with that said, number 10 in the optimism rankings right now, the Las Vegas Raiders.

How about that?

Here is from their subreddit: I just don't see a world where the Raiders' offense isn't good this season.

Okay?

So, a team that went 4-13 and missed the playoffs, but has added a new quarterback, Geno Smith, has added Pete Carroll, has built up the team with some interesting players in both the draft and free agency, and

took care of the face of the franchise,

their edge rusher, Max Crosby.

There is a lot of optimism that the Raiders, after a long period of dysfunction and failure, are trending upwards, number 10, the Raiders.

And quite frankly, Mark, they could have been higher.

But that's what the Algo came up with.

Nope, I like it a lot.

We've been banging this drum based on what they've tangibly done versus where Raiders fans in the past were mythologizing the team for no real reason.

I think that's different now.

I can't think of a team in the AFC that probably rose up higher on the algo because I can think of one or two in the NFC, but AFC, this is that team.

And I think it's real.

And I think that that was a fan that wrote that quote that wasn't coming from a

diehards and the subreddit.

That was a post-thread title, yes.

I think they've moved away from some of the delusional behavior that we've seen from Raiders fans in the past.

So

I'm on this one with you.

Raiders, the only franchise in the NFL who's not retired a jersey number, by the way, but I think that it's interesting that.

The Raiders, really?

That's kind of shocking.

Well, they have a whole different thing going on.

They actually have an even weirder thing that I feel like would annoy you more that any like famous player, any Hall of Famer that ever played for the Raiders has like a big mural in their new stadium.

So like you think of like Jerry Rice, although he had some good years, but any other guy, there is some absurd, like Randy Moss has a huge photo of Randy Moss as a Raider.

That's great.

We're not going to run out of space in the stadium.

But we could.

Based on your logic, yes, we will eventually run out of space in the stadium.

Yeah, it's still in the state.

I better address it immediately.

Randy Moss, I promise it's the last thing I'm ever going to say about it.

But the Raiders did this offseason, I think it's not a complete rebuild, but it's a double your win total quality rebuild.

And what they did was they invested in things that lead to immediate victories.

You have a coach now who can manage games.

And think about how many games just were mismanaged down the stretch by Antonio Pierce that were tight in the third and fourth quarter last year.

You have a run game.

You can control the clock and you have a responsible quarterback play.

All that stuff leads to direct optimism.

And it's more fun to be the sneaky team.

It's not fun to be the dynasty in the powerhouse.

You end up dating a 24-year-old and going on CBS.

It's more fun to be exactly where the Raiders are right now, and their fans are feeling it.

Wait, Connor, life is not a dress.

Jack Prunce, baby!

Life is what?

Life is not a dress rehearsal.

A wise man told me that.

No, I like to be out on an island on the belly stick at this point.

Like everyone's just, I get it.

I get it.

It's an anti-heaven take.

you guys have you guys are you guys got some similarities in life right now you guys do i see it too that's nice that's a drastic um that is a drastically different situation let's be honest

nobody's ever shut down a question to mark though that so i think you're in a much better spot in terms of other elements of their relationship versus your own but we can dive into that on the thursday episode yeah okay um up next number nine the data points they all the algo uh the computations came up with another team in the AFC that had a horrendous 2024,

but trending upward.

Optimism is high for a yes.

The

New England Patriots coming in.

Number nine on the 2025 Zuzer optimism rankings.

Another team that went 4-13 last year.

Over on the subreddit, one post said, crown us right now, Colin, 2025 draft winners.

That is the excitement level.

And again, just like the Raiders, you want to give an instant punch to optimism around

the team and the fan base.

Go get a head coach that people like and respect and has had success in his career.

In Las Vegas, it's Carol.

Here it's Vrabel.

So the idea that Vrabel is coming in, replacing Gerard Mayo, who good dude, he'll get another chance probably down the road, but was overmatched in his one year at the helm.

The Patriots were smart enough to get out of that mistake and go get Mike Vrabel.

Then they have, by all accounts, pretty much unanimously across the football cognizant

that they killed it in free agency.

They killed it in the draft.

They took a big-time premier young passer, potentially in Drake.

May put it all together.

And I think I'd love to see what the higher lower is on their win total because they feel like a team that's going to potentially double their win total this year.

A lot of optimism here, Conman.

Yeah, we did a shameless plug on the MMQB podcast this week, Albert Breer and I.

We did a

surprise division winners, and you take out last year's division winners and you have to make a case for someone else besides the team that won your division last year to win it.

And both of us immediately pivoted, and sorry, Dan, but to the Patriots.

That's the team that I feel like probably has

that probably has the second best chance.

Like imagine some sort of horrific injury to Josh Allen.

Just like picture it thoroughly in your mind.

And then think what other team can actually come in here and fill the void.

And I think the Patriots are probably the next most likely candidate to win the AFCs.

It reminds me of the Raiders in the sense that like, oh, the coach alone tells me we're going to win games that we would not have won a year ago.

And

the one thing that stood out about the Patriots last year, and it's not a surprise to anyone, but like Drake May with nothing around him, looked phenomenal at times to me.

Like it's the real deal.

And so you've got two of the most important things that you could have.

And I, and for Robert Kraft being Robert Kraft-ish and being annoying for years in a row, like to figure out that quickly that you had the wrong coach and you needed to figure that, you needed course correct.

I like when an owner does that.

Like, it's not, you don't want to do it too much, but they did it and got a much better coach.

And I'm with you.

I think that if the bills stumble for some reason, this is the second best team in this division right now to me.

Oh.

Maybe I'm wrong, but like, there's a lot more to like.

And it's a young team.

It's a young team.

Maybe I'm part of it is like, and again, the computation, the fact that I have the Patriots in this exercise shows that I don't have any anti-Patriots leanings in this, but I do kind of like we're getting now to the territory where the Patriot, we're going to talk up the Patriots to the level of being the clear second-best team in that division.

Okay.

Let's see if it all put together.

That's all.

They are the off-season darlings, no doubt about it.

Patriots win total right now.

12, 7.5 wins with a lot of juice to the higher side.

Minus 140 for the higher, plus 125 for the under.

And he's not going to get to seven.

I could see.

I could see them getting eight.

Like,

now the question is: do things really come together in year one with Vrabel and we sneak to nine or ten?

And then, if yes, if there is something that happens down up in Buffalo and the other teams in the East stay where they are, yeah, the door opens.

But very interesting team.

Also, an interesting team.

Wow, straight

three straight afc teams to start this exercise off another one in the afc west here number eight i did the data computations put it through the system double check the algo ran it through again did some handwriting i did the thing on the on the window um like the beautiful mind thing when you scroll on the window like a mad person

just different different um charcoal pencil or something yeah exactly like i did that too to get the denver broncos at number eight in the optimism rankings.

Now, this is a team unlike the prior two that did have success last year.

So they surprised the league.

They went 10 and 7, made it to a wild card game and lost.

Here is a quote from the Broncos subreddit post.

Fun fact, Colin, Denver has averaged one Super Bowl appearance every 10 years since 1978.

2026

marks 10 years since our last appearance at Levi Stadium.

Okay.

So

the math and the pattern indicates the Broncos potentially go to the Super Bowl this year.

I'm not going that far, but the fans love, you know who they really love, Cesee?

They love that quarterback, Bo Nix.

There's a lot of fire around the fan base of different quarterback power rankings out there, and none of them properly respecting.

the

Bo Nicks after his rookie season.

So they think they have a young star there and a defense that got better in the draft.

They had a really interesting draft with, you know, that defense was incredible, and they'll bring back Patrick Sartain, and then they add Talanoa Hufanga and all these other dudes.

It's going to be a lot of fun potentially in Denver this year at Mile High.

Yeah, this particular quote that we're looking at about reaching the Super Bowl this year

is sort of a reminder and an advertisement for the fact that Colorado in general has some of the most pure forms of weed and pot that you'll find in the entire country.

But

it's true.

But

I can see it.

And I think it's kind of like as we're creeping up this list, like the AFC West, which was just a cakewalk for the Chiefs in years past, it's pretty thorny now.

And like you're building a defense that's basically modeled to unspool the other quarterbacks in this division.

That's kind of what I love about them.

They're balanced.

Sean Payton's done a lot quickly to improve the roster, and he's got his quarterbacks.

So I think it's fair to put them on this list list at this point.

I would just, they should just be careful because optimism is fun, it's lighthearted, it's what we're in for.

That quote was douchey.

So just if you're a Broncos fan, just

gets entitled and it's just like we're every 10 years, and it's time for us now.

Yeah, just easy.

Sometimes I'm using these poll quotes, kind of, to express overconfidence, perhaps, from the fan base.

And the fact

to even insinuate that might be a red flag.

But Vance Joseph, what he's been able to do to fix that defense since 70 to 20.

20, they take a cornerback, Jade Barron at number 20, and you slot him in with Hufanga, with Sartan.

Like this is going to be, like, if we're waiting for Patrick Mahomes to start lighting up secondaries again in the AFC West, I don't think it's happening against this secondary in Denver.

No fly zone, part two.

Number seven on this list is, okay, so now we're in a

altogether different category.

Number seven is the Baltimore Ravens.

Now, here's the the thing about the Ravens.

They are in, and some Ravens fans got mad at me for

kind of mentioning the obvious last week that it's like, hey, guys, like at a certain point, are we starting to get a little nervous that we can't get over this hum?

Like, they don't want to even talk, they don't want other people talking about it, what's inside their heads, but that's the truth.

Like, these, every year, the sand is slipping through the hourglass.

And yet, and yet, you look at what they've done this offseason.

This is going to be a team that is going to be excellent again.

They're going going to win 12 to 14 games.

And here's a quote from the subreddit right here, Mark.

This offseason has left us with really no excuses to not win it all this year.

Those are the stakes.

So the optimism is high.

They assume that they're a Super Bowl contender.

Now you just got to get to the damn game.

It's...

I think the one thing for all these teams is like, this is pretty AFC heavy.

Like there's a lot going on in the AFC.

You're not just going to

walk into the AFC title game.

This quote is correct, except it's the same quote that this fan could have used a year ago and the year before that and the year before that.

So it is, it does boil down to, and it's a little maybe trite, but it does boil down to, we know you're going to win 11, 12, 13 games.

But then can you be what we think the Baltimore Ravens can be?

Because it's just been like an apocalyptic January over and over.

And that song and dance is a little tired to me.

So you better go be different this time around.

No excuses.

I love that.

No excuses from, you know, Ravenhead 69 sitting at his, you know, desk job and just telling every, you know, like a poor soul who dropped a touchdown or a two-point conversion pass that there's no excuses, according to milquetoast white data analyst over here.

So,

yeah, Lamar, you know, played well at the end of that game, obviously, to look like he was going to force overtime before that drop.

And now they added players to their back end.

Their secondary was a problem for them last year.

Jameson Hensley read this.

They allowed a league worst 14 touchdown passes in the fourth quarter last season,

and their defense allowed 244 yards per game, the third worst yardage allowed in 25 seasons.

So they attacked that aggressively with Malachi Starks.

They add Mike Green at Edge to try to juice that defense.

And yeah, no excuses.

Whoa, here we are.

How about that?

Breaking into our own show to hit a little bit of breaking news that went down shortly after we finished recording, which is

end of the road for the Baltimore Ravens and their kicker, Justin Tucker, the most accurate kicker in NFL history, who is right now being investigated by the league for sexual misconduct.

This comes a week and a half after the Baltimore Ravens, for the first time in franchise history, drafted a kicker, Tyler Loop, in the sixth round.

And now, Sess Dog, as we hit this real quick before getting back to the optimism rankings, uh, Tucker and the Ravens are no more.

You never would have thought a couple years ago that this is how it would end.

I mean, things don't end well between players and teams in general often, but um, this has like a sort of a biblical type downfall to it attached to a player that we thought was this multi-talented human that could do so many different things, like artistically, like there's the special out there where he does all this stuff, and he's gone.

And I guess my one thing, because it's like, you know, there's still more information to come, but like

when we hear about what he's been accused of, and there's another player in the league that went through something similar, but when we hear about that, and the Ravens, they drafted the kicker, the replacement, good kicker.

And then they call this a football decision.

I don't want to preach left and right about it.

This is business and it's pretty cynical.

But like, really?

Like,

what do you know now that you didn't know?

months ago?

No, that's bullshit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's just call it what it is.

It's total bullshit.

Connor, your thoughts.

Yeah, I mean, I think we can see now what it takes to be punished for this crime in the NFL.

You have to be a 34-year-old diminishing player at a non-premium position.

Otherwise, he would have gotten like a five-year fully guaranteed contract extension.

Let's not all be, you know, shallow or obtuse about this whole thing, right?

Right.

Yeah.

He was coming off the worst season of his 13-year NFL career.

13 years, by the way.

He was the last remaining player from the Ravens team that last won a Super Bowl over the Niners way back

when.

And he was a young kicker then, then became the greatest kicker.

I mean, Biblical's right, Mark.

He's the greatest kicker who's ever lived.

And if you followed this show, ATN, and you've followed Heed the Call, like that's how we've always discussed him in almost hushed reverence.

That's how good a football player he is.

He was also a very popular player.

His number nine jersey has to be the highest-selling kicker jersey of all time.

You used to see it all the time at Ravens games.

So, for him now to see his career end like this, I do wonder, and it's not even being cynical, it's just being very aware of the team we're talking about and the Ravens,

that if he was coming off another vintage Justin Tucker season, would they have tried to play this out?

And then, my other thought on it, Mark, is if this is happening because the other shoe is about to drop and the NFL investigation, they wanted to get ahead of it before that happened.

So, it looks like they're not being reactive as they've been in the past with these type of unsavory matters.

Yeah, and they're not alone.

Like it's not just a Ravens thing, but like you go back to the Ray Rice situation.

The Ravens, for all their consistency and we laud them with a lot of compliments about how they run the whole organization,

they're no different and no more pure than anyone else.

And I think you're exactly right.

We are talking about, as mentioned, a diminishing.

Hall of Fame level player who they went and drafted as replacement, and you're calling it what it is, but it's not what it is.

And I guess my last thing is don't try to snow me and us and the rest of fandom under with these statements, these ridiculous statements.

Like, just don't do it.

We all get it.

Just go do it and don't try to pretty it up with a bunch of words.

That's when I start to get, my blood starts to get annoyed at that point.

Annoyed blood.

You never want it.

Yeah, I mean, the statement saying how difficult of a decision it was, it's like, it wasn't a difficult decision.

Like, this guy clearly committed some very serious crimes.

Like

if that was any other workplace and any other person, you would be completely zapped from HR.

Like let's let's be realistic about this.

Yeah, this is the this is Eric DaCosta and the and the Ravens trying to carefully dance through the raindrops of kind of a disgraceful ending to

the Ravens career, perhaps NFL career of one of the greatest to ever play that position.

And yes, in case you've been under a rock, Tucker, who's 35 now, has been accused of misconduct by 16 massage therapists from eight different high-end spas and wellness centers in the Baltimore area.

That was originally reported by the Baltimore Banner.

All of the allegations occurred between 2012 and 2016, which were Tucker's first five seasons in the NFL.

And if indeed Tucker was

guilty of

these misdeeds,

yeah, the bill came due on something that had started at the beginning of his career.

And now the Ravens move forward, and

that's the story here.

Anybody else have anything to add on the Justin Tucker saga?

It's a sad story.

And

kind of obviously for the victims, the alleged victims,

you know, he's getting what he deserves.

But this was the, yeah, again, the greatest kicker in NFL history.

I don't think he gets another job.

I don't see another team going near him.

I think he's toxic.

And this is before that report even comes out.

Would he get another job if it were eight years ago?

That's why I don't buy into most of these.

It's like he's not going to get another job because a younger kicker can do what he can do now and cost a lot less.

But I don't trust these teams.

I guess I'll leave it there.

But like someone else would sign him in a different era, different year.

Sean Watson's going to be working somewhere else in two years.

Let's, yeah.

I mean, let's call it what it is.

Yeah.

All right.

That's that.

Now let's get back to the optimism rankings.

No pressure, no diamonds.

Number six, another team.

No excuses.

Optimism still high there in Western New York for the Buffalo Bills, who enter this season.

They beat, obviously, the Ravens narrowly to move on, but then fell in the AFC title game.

And

the quote I'm using here, much respect to Mr.

Brandon Bean.

And then there was a lot of people.

We got to have something to bitch about.

There was an image of

Bean as a superhero of some kind accompanying that headline.

So there is a lot of, yes, much respect to Mr.

Brandon Bean.

He's doing the cool guys don't look at explosions.

They just turn around and walk away.

And I don't know if that's the radio station that he firebombed with his

verbal barbs last week.

But yeah, Bean is trusted.

Everyone trusts him.

But you could use that same quote, Connor, that the Ravens fan used for the Bills.

You got to have something to bitch about.

I have a problem with format.

I got yelled at once at a press conference for not addressing a general manager formally enough.

And I was like, you're not like in charge of my little peasant village.

Like, I don't have to call you what you think you.

I need to miss you.

It's like when the Jets were trying to get the media to refer to Woody Johnson as Mr.

Ambassador.

It's like, I know, I'm not in your little fief done here.

That said, Bills fans are, their rebranding is cute and not totally degenerate and lost and idiotic.

And I do like the fact that they are getting behind Brandon Bean because I think that he's had one of the best offseasons.

We're still not talking enough about the price that he got some of these free, his own players at, re-signing some of his own guys and just kind of backfilling that roster with quality veteran death.

Like, this doesn't have to be every acquisition doesn't have to be Jalen Ramsey.

It just has to be guys who are going to be in position in December games when the people.

in front of them get hurt.

And I think they did a really good job of that this offseason.

So optimism totally warranted.

And, you know, year after year, this version of the Bills, like the things that work and that matter remain in place.

So I, of course, they're here.

I'm a little surprised.

I would think the average Bills fan, if they were to do this, would say we're more optimistic.

We think we're still right on the cusp of getting to a Super Bowl that there's five teams more optimistic to us is a little surprising.

But I don't think they're delusional, but they're a fan base that it's extremely, they believe in this team as highly as they ever have.

They believe believe and they believe they've caught some bad breaks,

both from the football gods and through poor officiating in the 12-second game.

And then, of course, last year with the faulty spot on the

tush-push play for Allen that got him beat by the number five team, the Kansas City Chiefs.

Optimism still high in Kansas City.

I understand the last time we saw them, they were getting their high knees smacked repeatedly by the Champion Eagles in the Super Bowl.

But this team went 15-2 last year, made it through the gauntlet.

That is the AFC once again before falling in the Super Bowl.

Here is a quote from the subreddit.

All seven 2025 draft picks are likely to be starters in the next two seasons.

Now, Connor, that's an insane thing for any fan to say, even the most optimistic.

The way draft classes work, half those guys will probably never even see the field.

And yet the confidence of the fan base and the organization and Brett Veach and Andy Reid's ability to restock this roster around Mahomes and Kelsey and Jones does speak for itself.

Maybe not this level, but we get what they're trying to say, right?

Yeah, and so I was looking back at their last couple draft classes and saying like, okay, what on earth gives you this kind of confidence?

And I guess you could say like, okay, the 2022 draft class, you had like Isaiah Pacheco in the seventh round and you had like Leo Chennault in the third round and you had George Karloftis in the late first, early second.

Sky Moore never panned out, but at least he started some games for you.

So there is something of a precedent here but i do think that they are just screaming towards worst fan base in the nfl and it's like it's a it's a car that's getting out of control like we need to fix the brakes on this thing i think it's inevitable when you succeed this much because you it isn't i they i have always thought the chiefs had a good fan base and didn't they break like the decibel sound decibel level like uh where we're recording to you know

i've seen a sound decibel broken at a montclair jackals game when my kid was there like screaming so i i don't know how scientific.

So I get where you're coming from.

You're not on board with what happened there in Kansas City.

But like, I'm just saying, like, did you put that on all the pictures?

I want to see the figures.

But that's when they, but that's back when they were like,

like, there was something lovable about them.

That was a long time ago.

Like,

I also think that's a weird comment.

Josh Simmons works out.

This draft is a success right away.

Like, I like that.

But if you're a perennial Super Bowl team, do you really have seven open spots for starters a year from now?

That feels unlikely unlikely to me.

Well, yeah, that's ridiculous.

But I'm curious where you're coming from on that a little bit,

both you guys, that

when you win repeatedly, you become insufferable in the eyes of many.

And to me, when I look at the Chiefs fans, and you maybe have a different experience, Connor, with maybe some feedback you've gotten for things you've written over the years, but I think they've handled success better than most teams that have been in this position.

And if anything, the exhaustion around the Chiefs and, like, oh, I hate the Chiefs.

For me, it's been more centered around how they seem to always get that call in the big game and just the effect of the wearing down of the football fan of seeing the same team playing in February year after year, more than the fans being super annoying and aggro.

Like, watch an Eagles fan base coming off a second title in five years.

The Patriots fan base, how they handled success after years of nothing.

I feel like the Chiefs fan deserves a little more credit credit than that.

I think that they don't stand out as like a villainous bunch.

I just more mean that when you succeed this much, you've got a lot of runoff and residue of bandwagon type fans who didn't go through the tough times.

They hopped on in the last two or three years.

They're not, they don't, I don't look at them the same way as I do the hardcore Chiefs fan of old.

You saw the touchdown love story on Hallmark.

Like those are those are die-hard fans, Mark.

We've watched that film together.

That's a strong argument, Connor.

Two quick things.

Absolutely a villainous fan base.

One was convicted of a series of bank robberies, so let's not let that pass.

Bank robberies are cool.

Yeah, that's that's an when they don't end with violent violence at the bank itself.

I think anybody that robs a bank is cool.

That's just my thing.

You've traumatized everybody there.

Yeah, people gotta, yeah, okay.

Maybe people need to toughen up, you know.

So, oh, you were told to get down and not move.

Okay.

Toughen up with that bank robbery.

You know, you're resting.

From a certain angle, you're resting just on the floor of a bank, but you're resting.

Now, if you go go in there heat style and you start shooting up the place, you're a monster.

But

if you're more in like the Peter Pan mode, or not Peter Pan mode.

Well, I think you're more Robin Hood.

It's not like

Wolf Market.

If you're more in the Robin Hood mode.

Yeah.

The Chiefs Wolf was getting tickets so he could sit next to Brittany Mahomes at the Michelob tent.

Like,

that's what we were traumatizing.

Mickelob.

Like,

this is not an act of heroism.

So now I know what people are thinking, by the way, as we move forward.

Save that for the Friday fun show.

Let's talk more about bank robberies.

Why is it all AFC teams?

Well, the algo is the algo.

Let me hear that.

Like, here's the sound of the algo working again.

This is not me.

I'm not making these decisions.

Like, it's what spits out.

And it actually spits out like the old, remember Conky the robot from Pee-Wee's big, Pee-Wee's Playhouse?

That's what I get it on.

It's like a little receipt that comes out.

Just because it's like, oh, something happened in the past before I was around.

It doesn't matter.

I get it.

Thank Connor for that.

Yeah, deserve that.

Anyway,

NFC teams close out this list, starting with the Chicago Bears.

The Chicago Bears coming off a 5-12 season, missed the playoffs, and they've been off-season champs a couple times.

in a row now.

It's approaching a dynasty in Chicago, but I really sense, I really sense that the fan base thinks this is the year they get up and go.

Here is a title of a thread in their subreddit.

Is Colston Loveland more like Greg Olson or Mike Dika?

We'll see.

We'll see if he's merely an all-pro or a Hall of Famer and one of the greatest players who ever lived.

We will see on that.

But again, here's another pattern.

New head coach, a guy that brings in hopefully an offensive scheme with him from Detroit.

So you hit him twice, a little double hit there.

You make your rival weaker while hopefully changing your offense to get behind Caleb Williams and get the most out of him.

And you look at the pieces they added on offense.

There's a lot of reasons for optimism, Mark, here.

And we'll see if it actually pays off.

But you could not be more excited.

Well, three other teams, according to the Algo, are.

But the level of anticipation around the Chicago Bears is as high as anywhere in the league, just about.

Yep.

I can see it.

I think for me, the biggest problem is your own division.

It's sort of AFC Westy.

It's like, can you get out of your own division?

And

can you, like, with the players that have been on this team for a while and the new ones, become different mentally?

Because they've been waxed by their own division year after year.

And you've got to, in a quick fashion, Ben Johnson on down, reimagine the way that you think about this season.

And the quarterback needs to work.

We need to know that Ben Johnson can be a head coach.

That's not always a complete layup.

But great draft, great free agency.

They built both lines up very quickly.

And I like the way that they're constructed on offense to start to succeed pretty quickly.

So I see why they're here.

I like them here, and I like the fact that even though I was kind of anti the commanders offseason, what the commanders did last year was sort of reverse engineer our thoughts on like quote unquote winning the offseason and the actual real-life implications that that can have.

Like last year, they go get what, Austin Eckler and Bobby Wagner and Zach Ertz and we're just like, okay, that's terrible.

But they go to the NFC title game, largely because of the contributions of three 34 and 35-year-old people.

It just shows that if you can win the offseason and actually win during the regular season, and the Bears are unique in the fact that they've won every aspect of this offseason.

They made the slam dunk coaching higher.

They crushed free agency and they did really well during the draft.

You rarely have this kind of trifecta, and we'll see if they can sustain it.

Yes.

Caleb Williams sacked 68 times last year.

So that investment in the offensive line, I think everything starts right there for Ben Johnson if they can protect the kid for ruining the kid.

Speaking of the commanders, they came in at number three on the HTC Zuzzers Optimism rankings.

This team obviously was the story of the NFC last year.

Winning 12 games, losing in the NFC title game, getting to the final four of the NFL.

One title here on their subreddit, The Crap We Used to Endure.

And And then it was a snapshot of their 2022 Jahan Dotson, I believe, draft class in the old days.

And

I'll just point this out.

In addition to positive stuff like your fan base is hosting the draft, which by the way, I saw in the Ravens subreddit, the fans over there are furious that the commanders who

compared to the Ravens, who've been kind of royalty the last 10, 12 years in the NFL,

we don't get it, but Washington does.

Well, yeah, Washington.

How about building it now?

Build a Washington monument in Baltimore and we'll talk.

Like, I can see why they're doing this.

Like, these two cities don't like each other.

I mean, that's clear.

Since July 2023, this is from Jake Russell, who covers the Commanders.

The Commanders have been bought by Josh Harris, hired a new GM, hired a new head coach, drafted their franchise quarterback, won 11-plus games for the first time in 33 years, won their first playoff game since 2006, went to the NFC title game for the first time in 33 years, and struck a stadium deal to move back to the RFK site.

And I didn't, I've never lived there, Mark, but I do know the whole moving to, where is it, Landover, away from the DC site was something that never sat well with anyone.

So they're doing everything right.

The team is better.

They've added pieces, obviously, and fortified the offensive line.

Laramie Tunsell, obviously the headliner there, but also through the draft and added Debo Samuel to the offense.

I think the Commanders fan and the Commanders expect to win 12 games this year, and that's what makes this so different than a year ago.

There's tangible reasons why they sit here.

And beyond the football team, this was one of the great sports fan bases in America and the world.

And an owner took all that away and basically destroyed the franchise.

And if you go back to the fact that they're like building this new stadium where old RFK used to be, it's almost, there's almost something spiritual to that because I know, and I'm not, I get that Connor doesn't believe that the 1980s were a thing that happened here in the country.

But like those old Washington teams were dominant.

Those fans were incredible.

And I think that it's all kind of happening together at once.

So if we're talking about fan optimism beyond just the players and all that stuff, it's like, yes, I think they've gone through like a purification process.

And you just got to be careful, right?

Because Dan Quinn and Josh Harris and all that, they're like the

hot police officer that marries the single mom whose ex-husband used to like huff spray paint, right?

It's it's good immediately because the quality of life improves drastically.

But then after that, there's a whole life to live.

So now we have to live with the ups and downs.

Now we have to live with the Jaden Daniels like regressions a little bit.

Now we're going to have to deal with, oh, he gets hurt maybe and he can't scramble or he can't do something.

He throws a couple picks in a bad game.

Now you have to live with the rigors of life because we've done the hard part, but now there's the rest of life to look forward to.

There is, and this crosses over to every sport

When the team has a young core and it has like a transformative presence at the front of that core and they have the, holy shit, we just shocked the league season.

It's very hard to top that.

This isn't just the fan exercise we're talking about.

It's more like where the organization's optimism is.

But like that was a joyride for the Commanders fan and the Washington fan that ate shit for as long as they did with Snyder ruining the entire organization.

Now, expectations arrive, but right now, I think

the team believes and the fans believe that they fortified the roster to make them more than just a flash in the pan.

And we'll see.

You are the ultimate commander.

So,

who said that?

Who was that?

That was Josh Harris, too, our president.

Oh,

God.

You are the ultimate commander.

So,

they say he loves Trump.

Where's Joe Deisman on this?

I need a Joe Thuiseman comment, ASAP.

Christ.

I imagine we'll be tackling all this in the next edition of Silver Hoses, Mark.

They say he loves Trump.

Big like 9-11 font, like across, splashed across.

If you were to read any of those.

A lot of commanders in Washington, D.C.

in the Pentagon.

We got you.

We got you, Justin.

Thank you.

Number two, it's going to feel a little chalky, but it's a computer.

It doesn't have any sense of the moment.

You cannot show me.

You cannot judge the algorithm.

It's literally a computer.

So let's not put it in a box.

It was in a box when I bought it.

The Lions are number two on the Optimism rankings.

The Lions, both internally,

and this is, of course, they lost both their OC and the DC, and they've had the window has been opened up.

I think not getting to the Super Bowl last year was the first misstep for their grand plan.

It was supposed to be their year, but really the football gods, I think I agree that the football gods got in the way on that.

And the injuries were just crushing to the Lions.

And not taking anything away from the Eagles, because I I think the Eagles proved they were, you know, they could have beaten the Lions with the Lions at full strength.

That's how good the Eagles were down the stretch.

But that Detroit team with their defense, especially headlined by the Aiden Hutchinson broken leg, but also like the secondary, they just got dismantled.

The fact that those guys are back.

I think there's an unfinished business that is different, Connor, than the

place where I would say the Bills or the Ravens are in right now, where there's maybe a little bit of doubt creeping in as like, are we taking advantage of this moment in time?

I think the Lions can use as a motivating factor, and I think they will, that last year was taken from us.

This year, that's not going to happen again.

And I think as a result, the team and fan base is loaded with optimism going into 25.

Yeah, I would say they're my favorite fan base in the NFL and are well deserving of this.

I spent a week in Detroit reporting on the football preview issue cover story last year.

And the stories of like grown men who would literally go up to Dan Campbell and just cry and hug him and say, I wish my dad was here to see you coach.

Like there's a very, there's a beauty to that fan base.

There's a richness to it that I don't think exists in other places.

My only problem with the massive amount of confidence and optimism is the fact that you've endured a bigger brain drain than any other NFL team this offseason.

I mean, it's really, really hard to get back no matter what.

It's even harder to get back when you lose your offensive coordinator and your defensive coordinator and you play this extremely physical taxing style of football that we saw its limitations a year ago.

I believe because there's no reason to not believe Dan Campbell, but I'm more am protective, right?

I don't want to see these poor people get their hearts broken because I do have a lot of love for that fan base.

And I think the more that we learn about, and Hard Knocks help, but like with about Aaron Glenn, the person, and Ben Johnson, the mind and the person, that the brain drain is tangibly massive because these guys are like they were the brains behind a lot of this.

And I think that Campbell's successful because he's so good at delegating and allowing people to be what they are.

And so that's a huge question mark.

The division's tougher.

For me with Detroit, if there's one optimism, and Dan, you pointed out, so I won't rehash it, but

to go 15 and 2 last year

with all the injuries, it just shows like the...

the toughness, the gritty kind of fortitude that the Lions are.

And it's not just when they're healthy, but it's what they had to get through.

And so do I trust that they're going to pile up more wins this year?

Yes, but I think it's very fair to wonder about the staff changes.

That's just an unknown.

Yeah, I think they could be a better team and not go 15 and 2.

15 and 2 is that's a monster season, but making a deeper playoff run, obviously disappointing the way it ended in one and done fashion.

But yeah,

the fact that you did lose your coordinators, again, is another kick to the groin that you had everything in place last year.

Double kick.

I'll just say it, like the Jared Goff of it all still hangs over things a little bit for me.

It's the one thing that nobody wants to talk about.

Yeah.

Please, Dod.

And finally, number one, and again, it shows how magnanimous I am, how, like I said, how I had, you know, there were some misconceptions around me and the Eagles.

Look who's number one in the optimism rankings.

Of course, the Philadelphia Eagles, 14 and 3, coming off a Super Bowl photo.

Great shot of Nick Siriani, Justin, who did incredible pre-production work.

As always, here is the quote.

Did I say the Lions quote, by the way?

Did I not say the Lions quote?

You did not.

What is it?

Let's just cycle that one back real quick.

Let's see if it was worth it.

Oh, yeah.

Quote, there is less time between now and the next Lions game than time between now and the last Lions game.

If that makes sense.

Don't try to take our offseason away, but I can see where you're coming from.

So they are ready and excited to move forward.

Now back to the Eagles at number one.

Yeah, a little snapshot via the subreddit.

No Midnight green Cooper DeGene, Super Bowl jersey on NFL shop.

It's almost done.

Life is good.

Life is good.

It's a type of some nature.

Life is good for the Eagles and their fans.

And even, you know, losing

talent, losing their offensive coordinator, losing talent a lot on defense.

the amount of trust in Howie Roseman.

There's a nice little video floating around out there from

draft day in the war room.

Do we not call it the war room anymore?

I'm sorry.

We were told to stop calling it the war room one year and NFL media is

because it was culturally insensitive.

Yeah, well, okay.

Yeah.

I think they, if you look at it now, they call it draft room.

But it was.

What was it like the picking place?

Like, what did we have to do here?

Anyway, in the war room,

Howie desperately calling, picking up the phone, trying to get somebody to trade with him.

Nobody wants to trade with him because everybody knows that Howie, or the understanding now is that Howie is going to take you to the cleaners.

And then he learns he had been trying to trade up in the first round.

He got Jihad Campbell as his guy anyway, but because that's just where the Eagles are right now, it's just everything's coming up aces.

But when he learns that the Falcons gave up a first-round pick to move up at the end of the first round, he was like, oh, no wonder nobody's taking my calls.

Because obviously is insane that somebody would do that but it's beside the point anyway howie roseman eagles they've lost obviously a lot on defense but they've they've proven through their depth that they should be able to handle that and they got vic faggio is still in the house uh connor so arrow up optimism at the highest possible place for this uh super bowl champion Yeah, two thoughts there.

I think Kevin Petulo, in terms of just like coaches that I've heard about coming through the pipeline, their new offensive coordinator, this guy could be like a white-hot head coaching name at the end of this season, is far more than a coordinator and name.

I mean, this guy has been instrumental in the build, came with Nick Siriani, does a lot of the stuff behind the scenes that no one sees.

It's a big deal.

And the one thing about Howie that I found interesting, Bleeding Green, which is the Eagles fan site, does an awesome job.

They went back and they looked at all the big, like Howie slam dunk drafts, and all he does is take the consensus highest player on the board, essentially, every time.

And

it's such a great, like self-fulfilling prophecy because it's just an aggregate of the best players, and you just keep taking them, and everyone celebrates because it's like, oh, that guy was 16th on Mel Keider's board, and we're getting him at 32nd, and this is the best GM ever.

And he just keeps doing that.

I compared it last week, Connor, two weeks ago, to when you're doing a fantasy draft and somebody's not there to do the draft.

So they put it on auto draft and you end up getting annoyed because all the humans are missing an obvious pick, but then the robot nails it.

They get their algo.

And give Howie his flowers for that.

Think where we were a year ago with the Eagles, real quick.

Like, is Jalen Hurts the right quarterback?

Can the coach get along with his own players?

Like, are we looking at the end of another regime in Philly?

And then

now when you come off of a Super Bowl hammering of your opponent, yes, you can sit at number one with all those problems fixed.

You could not.

And it really is a credit to the organization.

And I guess I'll give it to Siriani too.

But

no team, I think, cratered in recent memory as hard as that Eagles team, both at the end of the regular season and then in a total, gutless no-show against the Bucs in the playoffs, to then literally do the opposite the following January into February.

Man, the NFL, change happens quick, and it helps.

Who's calling the Eagles a Super Bowl contender?

DJs.

Real quick, Mark, on the other side, flip side.

Justin, yes.

Before we move off of this optimism list, I put together a little underdog NFL season-long pick'em entry based on the optimism rankings here calculated by the Algo.

And I just pulled from some teams on that list, and here's the ones I like the most.

Ashton Genty.

Higher, lower, 1,049.5 rushing yards.

Give me a break.

This is the favorite to win offensive rookie of the year.

Pete Carroll is going to feed him the rock.

I think he goes way higher than 1,049.5.

Patrick Mahomes, I've got him higher than 4,074.5 passing yards.

Now, he was just under this number last year.

I think he's going to be higher this year.

He was higher than this number in 2023.

Rashid Rice is coming back.

Legal situation pending.

I think this is going to be a bit more explosive offense.

We've been saying that for a couple of years, but I think

improve it mode with the Kansas City Chiefs passing attack.

That's my stance.

You mentioned the tougher defenses in the division.

That could be an issue, but I just feel like Mahomes is due for a big passing year since it's been a few seasons.

And the last one here is

tied to your Patriots' optimism.

Drake May, his higher-lower passing touchdowns is 21.5.

They've just added so many weapons around him.

He threw 15 touchdowns and 12 starts last year.

Way higher.

Crap around him.

I think he can easily throw 22 touchdowns.

My only concern with this one is Mike Vrabel.

52 and a half.

That's where I would go with Drake May this year because I just don't see any scenario where they score less than 500 points.

Well, that's fine, but my only hesitation, Mike Vrabel does like to run the ball, especially in the red zone.

So we'll see if they let Drake May throw it down there.

Not when you have a combination of Joe Lontana and Tom Brady as your quarterback now.

So you have to kind of reconfigure that for your algo, Justin.

Yeah, that's true.

So anyway, I'm taking the higher on all three of those.

You put $10 on these three pick'em,

one pick'em entry.

Standard play pays $60.

That's 6 to 1.

Or you can make it a flex play if you add

a fourth play in here.

You make it a flex play.

You only have to hit 3 out of 4.

Gives you some insurance.

So anyway, just scan the QR code on your screen to get started or sign up with the code HTC for our U.S.

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All right.

Mark, what are the

five teams that have negative juice in terms of optimism going into 25?

Right.

And I didn't have access to the computer, to your model.

So

well, that's okay.

I went through just, and I want to say one quick thing.

Like, I feel like in years past, it was really easy to go find like the five worst teams in the league.

It's not that easy right now.

Like, I think teams are smarter.

They're drafting smarter.

Their plans are better.

Whatever it is, like, I almost feel like kind of weird naming some of these.

But I would say, can I just, before you do it,

are you just naming the five worst teams in the league or we're talking opposite teams?

I think it's where I think that there's...

An absence, there are big questions and a little bit of an absence of hope that proves positive.

Let's hear it.

So number five, and this is, this may throw some people off, but I'm going Dolphins because I think if you're a level-headed Dolphins fan, you're wondering right now: like,

do we have the right quarterback?

Like, why do veteran players want to leave this team?

Like, is the Mike McDaniel experience run out of gas to some degree?

Like, there's just not a lot of, like, hey, we're on the cusp of winning the AFC.

It feels like it could go in the other direction.

So, optimism, it's not how I'd feel if I'm a Dolphins fan right now.

I'm with you.

What's for?

Four,

Titans.

It's hard.

Oh, I disagree with this.

Okay, but here's my question.

I think you've got something really exciting happening at quarterback, and that's the reason for optimism.

But I have big questions about there's no proof that you have the right coaching staff, and that could cause a lot of tumult and change down the road.

So it'd be just a thing that sticks in my mind.

Yeah, but they love this quarterback, and he's the number one pick.

He also has to go do it, though.

People organization catch.

I know, but where we are now.

Organizationally, I feel like they're like, we just got the most important piece of all of this.

And to me, that pumps a lot of optimism into a building.

I agree, but that's hard.

There's not like five total floating trash bags here.

Three, I go Giants because it just feels like

I like Brian Dayball and stuff, but is like one, one bad season?

And does the owner go crazy?

And is this thing combustible?

I almost went Jets here, but I think the Jets have said we've already recycled and we're.

Oh, the Jets are very optimistic right now.

That's the thing.

I think the Giants, it's kind of like, well, what are we and who are we?

And let's hope it works.

Two Cardinals, just because I think it's a pessimistic fan base.

It's another one where it's like, I like what's happening there.

I like what's happening there from my angle, but like, again, like, is Kyler Murray?

The doubt around Kyler Murray is, I think you're onto something there.

I think that has crept into the probably, I know the fan base, but I'm wondering about the organization too at this point.

Yeah, like just, again, change ahead.

Number one, not to dump on them every show, but like the Saints, I think, like these are Saints fans typically strike me as optimistic but smart.

And I know a couple that are going kind of nuts at some of the stuff that's happening.

The quarterback situation with Carr is a mess.

Like, I don't know.

Like, Kellen Moore seems to have hit at the perfectly wrong time.

Like, where are we two years from now with this team?

What's the direction?

I feel among any team the most direction-free.

Hmm.

Any thoughts, Connor?

So.

I'm surprised the Browns didn't make that list.

But they're very optimistic.

They could be delusional, but I think they are.

I do see that.

They would have been at, they're in the top seven or eight, though.

Yeah, I thought I was surprised the Giants didn't make most optimistic.

I do think they would have had them closer to that side than this spot.

There's a lot of Jackson Dart heat,

at least here on the radio,

when you listen to it driving around.

And oddly, I didn't realize how connected the Jackson Dart heat is to Brian Dable because I didn't really realize Joe Judge, former Giants coach, but also former assistant with Brian Dable, was on that old miss staff.

Charlie Weiss Jr., who is the son of obviously Charlie Weiss, another big mentor in Brian Dable's life, had some connections to the old miss program in Jackson Dart.

So there's a lot of like, I think, optimism and hype that this is actually Dable's guy and just wasn't the next best quarterback available.

And then to nail the Abdul Carter pick was, I think, significant too.

And Steelers on the not optimistic end.

I mean, I guess your fans are always like perpetually optimistic, but you're it's sort of like a mid-level thing i don't sense a lot of like somebody aaron rodgers do you yeah who's somebody who lived through late period aaron rodgers one of the thing that's annoying about him he does kind of suck you into that idea is like okay we just need somebody that can

i i to cover his point though when you have our friend dave damashek um openly flinging salt into the wound of the steelers like online that's not that's not how he's really ever approached that team well he hates aaron Rodgers, too, and has always had a Rodgers fixation.

So, this has kind of been like a worst case scenario for a buddy Sheck.

But I have like five Steelers fans, and like they,

I guess maybe for their own mental health, like nothing sways them at all.

Like, they just think they're going to the playoffs no matter what.

Like, they're not.

It's not a, you know, some of them can't read.

That was a real thought-provoking list, Mark.

Thank you.

Well, of course, the subreddit, you know, thread about my being like a mental midget with this list is already been, you know, already being written by someone.

I appreciate that.

I can't even negative.

If that happens, Mark, I will address it head on

with your help, if you'd like, on the next episode of it came from the subreddit, which is the latest offering over on patreon.com slash heed the call,

breaking down everything that's being discussed on the heed the call subreddit.

And there is

that plug.

And thank you to everybody

for checking out this edition of the program.

Connor,

we're just never going to be on the same page about this retired number thing, but I think what we can do is we could take it offline now and have a deep conversation privately about it.

I'm looking forward to it, and I'm looking forward to in eight years the Jets drafting their quarterback savior finally, and he has to be number finging 47.

And so I'm sorry about that in advance.

The Jets are one team that don't have a lot of numbers that need to be returned.

They do, yeah.

But God forbid, if you ever put a man on the field wearing number 12, I'll send Keith Hansis after you, Connor War, if that ever happens.

It would look beautiful on a patch.

Sown on the chest.

Broadway Joe, nobody will wear that number ever again.

In green and white.

All right, that's enough.

Till next time, do what you must.

Heed the call.