Deebo Samuel Traded + NFL Free Agency Preview with Sam Monson and Steve Palazzolo

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The Heat the Cup Podcasts cannot wait to overpay for your completely dispensable right tackle!

Oh, yeah, cannot wait.

Talk yourself into a, oh, an offensive line makeover

in the spring.

It's like, oh, with all guys that the last team didn't want.

That'll go great.

Welcome to Heed the Call.

Dan Hansas and Mark Sessler.

Mark,

the Combine, the NFL Scouting Combine in the Rear View Mirror.

How you doing, buddy?

I'm doing good.

And I think that your commentary on signing, like on adding an offensive lineman to the mix kind of shows why as front office henchmen, we'd be extremely valuable.

We take it seriously.

We're scouting that person with depth.

Oh, absolutely.

And coming up just a little bit later, we're going to have Sam Monson and Steve Palazzallo from Check the Mike to do our first real deep excavation of this free agency class,

which, yeah, we'll be lousy with,

you know, not just offensive linemen, not just right tackles, but of all position groups.

And there is value, Mark.

There's value in free agency and ways to get better.

But it's the smart teams that go about this the right way and not the dunderheaded way.

And we'll get into all that, both with Sam and Steve and then later in the week and leading up to next week, which is, yes, it's funny how quickly it comes around the beginning of the new league year, which we'll be obviously covering in depth.

I don't have personally, Mark,

a ton of NFL scouting combine takes, being completely transparent with the audience.

Not my favorite time of year, not my favorite league event.

I know there are people that really enjoy it.

And

shout out to you.

And if you really want in-depth coverage of that event, I would suggest checking out Josh and Hayden here at Underdog, who who were boots on the ground in Indy and are all over that stuff.

But I don't know if you had any thoughts on Combine weekend in Indy.

I actually, because I mean, we have complex weekends in lives too, where what I try to do is catch up a little bit in the following weeks on some of these workouts versus I'm not glued to a television for three straight days.

And we bring our show as a hangout.

We bring these people onto our show to discuss and unpack the, you know, we, the Josh Norris and Haydens of the world.

Like, they'll be part of this process, but we just learn a little bit more, but we don't fake it.

We don't act like we suddenly are sitting there with a stopwatch attached to like the Steelers organization.

We are us.

We've been doing this a while.

A lot of people have been here from the very beginning.

Not just this version of the show, but the previous one.

We're not going to bullshit you.

You know what we like and what we don't like and what we know and what we don't.

So yeah, we're going to spend, though, the rest of this

portion of the calendar learning more and more about this draft class.

And

again, like what's right in front of us, though, is the legal tampering period, which opens next Monday, which is March 10th at noon.

And like I said, we're going to be all over that.

And my final thoughts before we get into today's show, hitting some news and then again, checking in with Sam and Steve is Justin can't dunk.

He can't.

And I think it's

more than some could, but not the way that we would imagine it.

Last week, Justin outrageously claimed that he can dunk.

He can't dunk.

There's no way he can dunk.

We have offered him $50

DoorDash certificate if he can prove to us that he can dunk.

But Justin can't dunk.

Hey, Justin, the gravedigger.

Hey, I think that was poor negotiating on your part because I would have made a video of me dunking just for the coolness of like, hey, the producer of Heed the Call can dunk a basketball.

That's cool.

But you can't.

I mean, when was the last time I tried to dunk?

Maybe a couple of years ago.

I can dunk, though.

I believe in my mind that I can still dunk the ball.

And actually, Dan, I believe that.

Well, yeah, but I can.

But now that I've moved back to Texas, I'm around some of the people I grew up with.

They're still here.

And we've actually put together a rec league basketball team that starts in just under two weeks so i'm going to be regularly in a gym playing ball with ample opportunities to get this video proof evidence that

in other words you are regressing as an adult you have you have everything that you have accomplished as an adult is going in reverse now that's a setler take it's okay to be involved with guy friends playing rec league sports in your 30s but i will say that like you know you diving into rec league sports in your mid 30s all of a sudden looking to prove something athleticism I'd say just be careful.

Like, the only like athletic activity I've seen you do in the last, you know, eight months or whatever is ripping from that vape pen, which I don't think helps your ups.

I don't know if that affects my jumping.

Definitely conditioning, probably not in peak.

And I'll pro from that angle, though.

Anyway, it's going to be a big event.

I'm trying to figure out how to address this.

I want everyone in our audience to see the big moment where Justin proves that he can't dunk.

But Justin says he can dunk.

It's not true.

It's not true.

Oh, speaking of dunking, pivot.

You know what I ask myself when I wake up every day?

I imagine.

Does Luka Doncic play basketball today?

There's a reason, and no, it's not because of the gravedigger.

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audience only.

You know, one of the part of the smear campaign from the Dallas organization

was that

Luca drinks too much beer, smokes too much hookah, and chases tail entirely too often, I believe.

Did I add that last part?

It's probably part of it,

the way that the Mavs try to smear him out the door.

These are all things that I also attach to Justin, who can't dunk.

Right.

Chase is too much tail.

Not true.

Luca just had his first baby like less than a year ago, very happily married.

I also.

Oh, well, the pro athlete tells us there's no workaround from that angle.

I mean, that's fair for NBA players, especially.

That's fair, but definitely not.

Does not apply to me.

NFL players do.

A lovely fiancé.

NFL players, too.

We don't talk about that.

We don't talk about that.

Haven't the Lakers just pulled off their sixth straight win?

Like, I mean, it's like, he's too fat and pudgy for us.

Like, I mean, cool state you moved to.

Let's do some news.

How about that?

He broke the tackle of Cam Chancellor, by the way.

Shook him off like a little winter snow on a sunlit, moonlit evening.

What?

Boy, that was weird right there, wasn't it?

Oh, my.

All-time.

ATN moment there, Ron Wolfley,

who is stepping down as the Cardinals game day color analyst after 20 years.

So on a sunless, moonless night, it just got a little darker with Ron not involved on Football Sundays, Mark Sessler.

You know, like when you get back into football in August and you are treated to, if that's the word or the phrase, the local preseason teams that cover these games, a lot of them are just like, you know, volume down, get me through this experience.

But Wolfly, and Wolfley was beloved by Wes, too.

and we you know this is back in the news when you'd be heavily covering preseason and wolfly just stood out as a jesse the body ventura type um voice and like i i he was always someone that i knew about And I'll say it quickly, but if you go back to Belichick's Browns

in the 92-93 season, they signed him after he was a Cardinals player to come in and like batter ram people behind like Ernest Biner and a few other guys.

And Wolfley had the quote of the week every week in the locker room.

He famously said, if you need three yards, I'll get you three yards.

And if you need four yards, I'll get you three yards.

Like

he knew who he was.

But as a broadcaster, like, I'm just someone unforgettable.

Yes.

All right.

We move forward.

The card is.

And one little side note.

Like, I think that, you know, that clip came to us because one of us spent, was diligently monitoring multiple feeds, television feeds, a radio feed, the local radio feed.

And that's how that clip came to to us.

Mark was working as a true professional.

Wow.

Mark working pre-production on the show.

Yes.

Wow.

Well, there's a first-release.

Okay, I see where you're going with that, but like, that's, you know, great job, bro.

You made the show better, and we love you for it.

Let's get into the news.

This went down over the weekend.

The 49ers have agreed to send wide receiver Debo Samuel to the Commanders in exchange for a fifth-round pick.

This is like any trade, it can't actually become official

until the new league

year begins on March 12th.

But as part of the trade that will become official next week, Washington is taking on the remainder of Samuel's contract and paying his full $17.55 million salary for the 2025

season.

So there you go.

And we knew Debo and the Niners were not long for each other.

This had been telegraphed for a while now.

He goes to Washington, Washington, and that makes sense too, Ceci, because the commanders, as we talked about on the show a couple weeks ago, obviously were positioned as the team that was going to make the big splash and have the big win the offseason, offseason, and grabbing Debo Samuel is a big step toward that

completely invisible crown.

Yeah, and I think they believe that Cliff Kingsbury can coax a better season out of Debo Samuel than what we saw last year.

This is a player that, because of the way he's been used, I think he's taken a a lot of punishment as a runner.

He's not like a fly downfield 30 yards, catch it in open air and keep going.

It's like he takes a lot of hits.

He's had some injury issues.

But I would say one quick thing about the commanders.

I don't think they're done because if you look at their roster, one of the reasons this happened or why it could happen even financially, and they got it

for a song pick-wise, and we get that, but like they have three wideouts who are becoming free agents.

Zach Ertz, who I think he piled up like 10 or or 11 catches in their final playoff game and was a big part of their offense, he is a free agent and there's whispers that he may retire.

So

they have to do work on offense.

And this is part of the pairing him with Terry McLaurin and Debo, I kind of think that's the perfect kind of spot for Debo Samuel.

And it's kind of, you could see it as like a bounce back type year if he works in this offense.

Yes, I think it's a very logical trade for Washington.

It's an obvious move for them.

And I do expect them to do more work because, like you said, they have to fill in roster spots and they have a ton of money.

And then all this excitement around the team after they go from the number two overall pick to the NFC title game, all that.

The only thing I'll say about this trade is

it's one of those deals, as we were talking about at the very beginning of the show, like not everything is what it looks like in March.

And Debo Samuel of 2025 is not the Debo Samuel of 2021.

And if, if Commanders fans, and for instance, like, I think here's

one tweet that I got.

I dared to say that, well, you know, watch out.

He might not be the same guy that he was at his peak.

And then we get John Brown writing, you just hate Washington.

Jets suck and always will.

Suck a fat baby's ass.

First of all, gross.

Weird.

There's a lot going on in phrasing.

Secondly, like, it's just funny, NFL fans, like.

You have one good year, and now I have Washington fans saying that I will suck and my team will always suck.

It's just funny how it works out.

I hope to be one of those things.

I think someone

coming at you with suck a fat baby's ass is memorable, creative, and a powerful way to close the critique there.

I think my point more being was, you know, Commanders fans were so down for like 30, 40 straight years and how quickly it changes, right?

But

the overall point being, yes, he looked like a guy, and we talked about it on the show for years.

Debo was the king of, he takes a big hit, he's down on the field, he looks like he's dead.

He's being carted.

And if you had him on your fantasy team, you'd be living and dying.

He's in the blue tent.

And then two plays later, he's out on the field and he's making a big play.

The lack of explosiveness in the last two years is very notable.

He's approaching 30.

And while I think it's definitely worth the gamble for Washington, because it's not much of a gamble at all for a fifth-round pick, and you could afford him,

I'm not penciling him in to be a big-time impact player.

It's a kind of wait and see see for me.

I like the deal, but I'm just saying it's not definitely going to lead to a major uptick for the offense, not for sure.

I'm with you.

I think it's,

let's see what comes of it.

But, I mean, the other side is the Niners.

There's whispers that they would move on from Brandon Ayuk as well.

They've got Ricky Parasol.

Like, they're an interesting, they're at an interesting

Ayuk.

They just signed him to a multi-year deal.

Well,

it was sort of presumed that they were going to move on from one of these guys.

I think at this point, you can't do that, but coming off injury and like they're a different team right now.

I just wonder

what they're thinking inside.

I think they're a very prime candidate to go wide receiver at multiple rounds in the draft and kind of restock Shanahan's offense.

I think I trust John Lynch.

He's a very good general manager.

Shanahan knows what he's doing.

I think this was a good move by the Niners to move on from Debo.

You don't get a lot of value, but you get the cap space.

They love Brandon Ayuk.

They just made him one of the higher-paid wide receivers in the league.

They're going to hope he's going to be able to rehab from that injury.

Ricky Piersall really flashed it at the end of the year.

Juwan Jennings is also under contract with that team.

I think they're going to be okay there.

And now we see if Debo can still play the guitar

in Washington.

Other news.

Oh, one more other note around San Francisco.

Trent Williams, he will be back.

The left tackle stalwart coming off an injury plague season.

He is back with the Niners.

So Debo gone.

Trent Williams back.

Speaking of back, the Rams and and Matthew Stafford, let's put this soap opera quickly to rest.

This happened on Friday.

They agreed to a restructured contract to keep them in Los Angeles.

And we could kind of stick a pin in this a little bit, Marcus.

We're going to have Jordan Rodriguez joining us on Thursday.

But it is obviously notable that after all the drama around Tom Brady and the

ski slope incident and Starbucks Gate and everything at the Combine, that he ends up exactly where I think a lot of people thought he he would end up in a perfect system for him.

And the fact that you're not hearing a lot of financial terms around this means that the gambit probably didn't really work in terms of trying to get him paid.

But ultimately, the idea of playing for some other team was not as enticing as staying in Los Angeles and ending his career on a high, potentially.

Yeah, and we'll hit the Rams side of it hard with Jordan, but like, I guess my overarching question was like, how realistic was it that he ever was going to leave?

Like they kind of gave him the respect to go out and look.

And for me, it just changes the quarterback market because had he ever gone to the Raiders and they pursued him hard or say the Giants, that removes one slot from all of this.

But now those teams are back looking for a quarterback.

And so from that angle, it's a big move for the rest of the league in the offseason.

And it's not lost on me or any of us that Tom Brady was very interested in it making him the Raiders quarterback.

That's not the case.

Tom Brady was very interested in Ben Johnson being the Raiders' head coach.

That was not meant to be either.

So Tommy.

Getting close, but not there.

Taummy dealing with some disappointment at this stage of his life.

Also, the Rams and left tackle Laric Jackson have agreed to a three-year $57 million deal.

$35 million of that guaranteed.

So he stays in L.A.

to protect Matthew Stafford.

That's a nice move.

That is a 26-year-old former undrafted free agent.

When you can hit on those and they turn into players, that is how organizations that are run well thrive.

Also, coming back, Travis Kelsey, he confirmed it.

He, I think, said sent a text to Pat McAfee, who right now is in a war, a border war between Canada and the United States over some comments he made at a wrestling telecast.

But before that happened, Kelsey texted McAfee, said he is back.

He can't go out like he did with that bad taste in his mouth.

So the tight end, now we'll see if the Chiefs feel the same, what kind of role he'll have.

Also, the Chiefs and guard Trey Smith, non-exclusive franchise tag there, which means that any team can match the offer and take away Trey Smith, but they're going to have to give up two first-round picks.

Nobody's given up two first-round picks for Trey Smith.

So I expect fully for the guard to stay there.

I mean, I think the Trey Smith development is equally as big as getting this version of Travis Kelsey back.

I'd like to see him have a comp, maybe a bit of a calmer offseason.

I think he'd be motivated.

It's sort of presumed it's his final year.

He didn't exactly say that.

if I'm the Chiefs, I keep

Kelsey.

If I'm the Chiefs, I keep evolving that offense, though.

Like, where he is part of the offense.

He's not the centerpiece in this morning.

And they, I think the season kind of told us that, but keep changing and evolving.

Like, they've changed their offense four years in a row.

You can do it again.

In other news, rap sheet.

By the way, did you see Rap Sheet?

The Rap Sheet

Jordan Schultz

Showdown at the Starbucks, which we hit in depth with Jason Zummalt and Justin on the Friday Fun Show on Patreon.

So go find that if you want to hear our thoughts on what went down in Indianapolis.

But that became such a big story.

It was like the biggest story at the Combine, which

might say something, that it made it all the way to Inside the NBA with Barkley and Shaq.

Let's listen to a little of that.

And Charles Barkley.

Gentlemen, how are we?

I'm in a good mood, man.

Why is that?

Well, because I was at Starbucks today.

And?

It's dangerous in there already.

Those fish flying everywhere.

I was like, see, I don't normally go to Starbucks because that's where rich white folks go.

I used to normally get my...

White folks don't.

Yeah, I love to go with black folks.

At the place with it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Apparently, it's where a lot of reporters go to.

$2 coffee is where you have to be rich.

Ain't no $2 coffee.

They should be drinking folders like the rest of us do.

Oh, my God.

Hey,

you know, we're in the presence.

Hey, Jordan Schultz of Fox verbally accosted Ian Rappaport of NFL Media at an Indianapolis Starbucks on Wednesday afternoon.

June Jordan.

The report was made to NFL security.

You see that kind of word

accost it.

Yeah, accost it.

Whooping his ass.

That's what happened.

Yeah, Jordan.

Hell, good people.

You'll stop talking now, Jordan.

Get that Frappuccino thing right next time.

Hey, you know we're in the presence of a royalty tonight.

What?

You know what I'm saying about that story?

What is?

I've been knowing Jordan for a long time.

Of course, his father's Howard Schultz.

He could have owned all the franchise, but he decided to go a different route.

I've always respected Jordan for that.

But yeah, Jordan, hope you got it.

Ian, Ian, I got Ian in this one.

May 19th.

Let's do it.

Hey, we'll let them go first.

That's a warm-up.

Then me and you go, by the way.

May 19th.

So there you go.

Shaq siding with Schultz in a potential Royal Rumble while Sir Charles sides with Rapsheet.

Where do you come down in that bare knuckle match between the two former guests of Heed the Call and around the NFL.

Well, it's putting me into a bit of a spot.

But like, I mean, one is a former co-worker of ours, and one was on the show like a number of weeks ago.

So, like,

what I would say in general is like, I enjoy any sort of insider tussling and conflict.

It's really for our benefit.

And we've been to that Starbucks many times.

There's not a part of me that doesn't believe that where they were positioned and standing, like, every NFL executive and like 200 reporters are walking by you like it's a train station.

So

was it even done by the two of them for show?

I don't believe so.

That's a little, that's a little like I said.

I had a private conversation with Mr.

Rappaport about the incident.

It was not staged.

And I will tell you that

I think Ian was a wrestler in high school in Westchester County, New York.

And I think he was trash Schultz.

So I'm not afraid to say how I feel.

Mark Sessler may be a little different, but I'll tell you how I see it.

I think Rappaport takes him down with a reverse chokehold.

Well, if you're asking me from who would win in a physical ultimate.

I did.

I literally asked you.

I thought it was more like philosophically, which of the two do I agree with?

Like, I want to, I want, as a reporter, I'd want to hear more about the words that went down, but Jordan towers over Ian, so he'd have to come in low and like take out a knee.

Anyway, Rapsheet.

So who wins?

I'll go Rapsheet because I think Rapsheet probably would get angrier about all of this and have a sort of a holy fury.

If you get in his way from an insider angle, like you're unleashing a different version of that human.

Right.

Prusty's probably got Pellicero and like the Mr.

Fuji role, like throwing sharp in the guy's eyes or hitting him with a steel folding chair while the referee's knocked out.

Sure.

Spraying arrogance perfume in his face, like all that stuff.

Anyway, Rapsheet reported, according to sources, that the Jets are now taking calls on wide receiver Devontae Adams.

They're

open to trading him prior to the start of the league year.

This man has a $38.2 million cap number.

He also, of course, as we talked about, apparently has no agency.

He just needs to go where Aaron Rodgers goes.

And since Aaron Rodgers is not staying with the Jets, that means that Devontae Adams cannot and will not stay with the Jets.

There will be no trade.

There's no market for the Jets.

They have no leverage here.

He makes way too much money under this current salary.

He will be released.

There's no guaranteed money on the deal.

So he's going to enter the free agent pool, and then he will have no choice but to wait for Aaron Rodgers to pick a team and then join that team.

Well,

be his own man once more.

But that would be.

Well, right.

That whole pairing, this like, you know, double individual deal feels a year old and too stale to me.

My favorite two words in this tweet that came from our friend Rapsheet, who would win the wrestling match, is taking calls.

Who is calling about Devontae Adams at nearly $40 million?

Like you can cut him post-June one and save $36 million in cap.

And it's not a lot of dead money attached to it, according to over-the-cap.

So it's like, that's your move, like taking calls.

Like, who is going to do this deal right now?

Nobody.

The Bengals, who, you know, are facing some.

You know, we talk about how Rogers wielded way too big of an axe for the New York Jets during his two-year tenure there.

Now, Burrow, Joe Burrow, is trying on that.

He's got the handle.

He's got the big wooden handle and the cleaver in his hand.

And he's saying, I am going to dictate how the Bengals are built.

And that means he wants his wide receivers back.

He wants his star defensive end back.

And that's going to lead to the Bengals, if they do capitulate to their star franchise passer, they've got to make some moves like releasing guard Alex Kappa, which saves $8 million in cap space.

And speaking of saving cap space.

The Eagles are releasing six-time Pro Bowl cornerback Darius Slay, who will be designated as a post-June 1st release.

The Eagles will save $4.3 million against the cap.

Jordan Schultz, who would lose in a fight with Ian Rapperport, reports that a return to the team remains a possibility.

Philadelphia took a similar approach with Fletcher Cox in 2022 from a cap standpoint.

Slay should have a market, but he'll be selective at this stage of his career.

He told Amon Raz St.

Brown, the Lions wideout, on Brown's podcast, because everyone has multiple podcasts now, that he would be very open to going back to Detroit if it doesn't work out.

I think the Eagles could still bring him back.

This is just sort of like a lever pull thing.

They could bring him back, but he wants to play.

Somebody sent us this tweet, and it just speaks again to

I can't with the cult of Dom.

But let's check out this tweet that was sent

from Zach Berman, who covers the Eagles.

The Eagles were ready to move on from Slay in 2023.

He was ready to sign with the Ravens.

Baltimore offered way more money, and I'm like, like, I just came off the Super Bowl run.

Go chase the bag.

Then Dom DeSandro called, Slay, we need you.

He said, Dom, he's one of those dudes.

He calls me and he's like, I need you because he do it for my family.

He made it right.

Slay stayed for two more seasons and won the Super Bowl.

So are we to believe, Mark, for this latest propaganda around Dom, who's like the security guy for the Eagles or whatever, that Darius Slay was about to make like probably multiple million dollars more.

but then Dom says, hey, bro, we need you.

And he said, okay.

And he just came back.

Am I to really believe this?

Or is there's just myth building unending around this guy?

Well, no, I think there's a lot of myth building here.

This is one angle of the story.

I mean,

if this is all it takes to get players to take a massive haircut to stay, like then I'm going to go hire.

If Dom has a brother or a sister, I'm hiring them immediately to help my franchise because this is not how i normally think it how i think it works so

i'll spin through a few more things real quick uh

fowler reports via sources that the cowboys plan to utilize utilize the franchise tag on defensive tackle jump in here justin go ahead and just to check your dictionary i know how to say this but i just want to make sure you do too oh yeah no worries at oh at all oza adigazua thank you if a long-term deal is not reached by tuesday no final decision but that is the current expectation.

The tag is projected at $25 million.

Rapsheet also reports that Devon Godshaw, the defensive tackle for the Patriots, has been granted permission to seek a trade.

They're changing their defensive scheme, and he doesn't quite fit there.

Rapsheet also has that the Packers have had trade conversations centered around eccentric star cornerback Jair Alexander, and they are open to moving him for the right price.

Alexander, he's...

28 years old, two-time Pro Bowler.

He would be probably one of the best cornerbacks on the market.

We'll get into the secondary market and free agency with Sam and Steve in just a couple minutes.

And

finally, Mark, the Buccaneers reinstate John Gruden into their ring of honor.

This stuff always confuses me.

We love Jay, John's brother.

I don't know John personally, and none of us do.

But

I know what got...

John Gruden kicked out of the ring of honor and kicked out of the NFL as a head coach of the Raiders.

I don't recall him being exonerated, so something changed with the Bucs.

I just don't know what it is.

So he's back in the ring of honor.

That story threw me, too.

Because

I think one of the reasons, obviously, that John Gruden was peaked was that, you know, you've got this massive investigation about the Commanders, and

he's pulled out of that and essentially sent to abstentia,

you know, which he probably felt unfair.

But I'm with with you.

Like the passage of time, if you felt that strongly inside of the Bucks organization, well, what, like, what about it has changed other than the passage of time?

And we kind of believe that

forgiveness, I guess, forgiveness.

I guess.

I guess he was just in time out.

He was putting the old.

You know, have you ever heard?

I learned this terminology because I have a lot of people in my world that are school teachers, and

there's a thing called a rubber room where teachers who, within the union,

if you get bounced out of a classroom for whatever reason, but they can't fire you because of the union, they send you to this rubber room where it's just somewhere where you go somewhere in the district and just chill out for eight hours and then you go home.

Maybe that's where John Gruden was in, the Buccaneers version of the rubber room.

I don't get why they're calling it.

Was there any explanation why it's being called like,

you know, the rubber room versus a different

name?

I don't know.

I don't know, bro.

A rubber room is a nickname for a reassignment center for New York City teachers who are accused of misconduct.

Now, I want to let you know that

I don't have anybody in my direct orbit that's been in a rubber room.

I just know that a rubber room exists.

It's part of the

lexicon.

Yes.

All right.

Oh, one more thing.

Hey, you know what?

Yeah, a little seg, a little mini seg, Sassy.

Sure.

I got something to share.

Hit it, Justin.

This guy gets it.

All right.

I want to talk about here on the Media Minute

on this Tuesday morning.

I want to talk about Hard Knocks.

And, you know, I love Hard Knocks.

You know that, Sassy.

I have bottomless respect for the show.

I created a hard knocks beat at NFL Media covering each episode.

I covered, I traveled to press conferences about hard knocks.

I interviewed the showrunners.

I hosted a podcast in later years about hard knocks.

And it's that love, Ceci, of the show that always made me so uneasy about the, I'll call it the aggressive expansion.

of the brand in recent years, which I've been on the record about.

First, there was the in-season hard knocks and then last year's disastrous off-season hard knocks with the New York Giants.

And that, of course, made, why was it a disaster?

Well, it might have made a lot of news and got buzz for HBO and NFL Films, but it came at the cost of the show's reputation amongst the 32 teams because there's been, for years, as long as Hard Knocks has been around, NFL teams always looked at that show with suspicion, some teams more than others.

But the fallout of what happened with Joe Shane, the general manager of the Giants and the Saquon Barkley decision that they made was a stain on the organization.

A Tiffany franchise, a team that had for years avoided hard knocks for this very reason.

And it proved every skeptic inside the league right that hard knocks is not good for the brand, right?

It's like.

So, you know,

all these shows, all these CSI type spin-offs, Cesi, it's like, I just watched the substance, that Demi Moore movie.

where you keep replicating and replicating and then all of a sudden you have a monster on your hands, right?

But that's what has happened.

We kind of got too far away from what was so beautiful about the original conceit of hard knocks.

Here's this great way to kick off the late summer into the season with this look at the preseason and it became so much more and now it doesn't surprise me to learn the reporting out there that the NFL films could not find

a team willing to do their off-season hard knocks this year after what happened with the Giants.

So they pivoted and they went with Bill Belichick and his first year at UNC in North Carolina and his jump to college ball, which could be good.

I'm not necessarily interested in it.

But I think what it really tells me is that I think they might have killed the golden goose with Hard Knox.

I would not be surprised if Hard Knox is gone entirely in the next year or two.

And it's all because of this, again, the CSI

expansion of what I thought was a beautiful, beautiful brand.

And I hope maybe it does have to go away and has to be rebooted.

But in the here and now,

in the here and now,

in the here and now, hard knock seems to be on the ropes.

And it just makes me sad because

it was so obvious to me that it was something they should have been smarter about in the first place.

Dan, you're on the right side of history with this one.

It's a clogged marketplace, and they've moved to unessential content out of desperation.

You've disenfranchised every NFL team.

They see only the damage that could come from this and this minute has been

not only educational, but I think you've steered us back in the right place.

Well, that was very,

thank you for the total agreement there.

No pushback from Ceci, but I think that's because you know that I was always the number one hard knocks fan

within our group.

So that's why it's disappointing.

Others would claim that.

I wouldn't have claimed that.

I was

a critique of the show often, but now it's...

Now it's gone beyond the pale.

Let's be real about that.

So there you go.

I think that's the end of the meeting minute.

It's going to go away.

That's my prediction.

Just watch.

Yeah.

We'll get the announcement in July.

There will be no hard knocks this year because nobody's going to agree to do it.

And this whole thing of forcing teams to do it.

You think the

show is going to go away.

The core.

Yes.

I think they poison the well.

That's my prediction.

I love that take.

That's I hope it's not right because I love the show.

And I really, I don't see that.

I don't say this to be antagonistic or cynical about the way the league does expand itself because it's been brilliant in so many other ways in terms of the brand.

But that show,

that show was so perfect as the beginning of it was for so many fans, both diehards and casuals.

The hard knocks is like, okay, now I'm plugging in.

Okay, training camps on.

They got this HBO show where they drop in F-bombs and stuff.

And you've even seen this edges get sanded off the August show over the past few years as teams became more defensive about it.

So this has been kind of an ongoing thing.

And I think the expansion into different episodes is

that was the thing where it's like, okay, now we're really losing the plot.

And now here we are with Bill Belchick and UNC.

Who cares?

I don't care.

It just all became so unspecial and it became soft.

And

that's when you exit out stage door left.

All right.

Mark, Adread, your turn.

This episode of Heed the Call with Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler is brought to you by BetterHelp.

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Welcome back.

Our next guests,

we're very excited here.

There's a kinship between these two gentlemen.

Mark Justin and myself.

Heroes over at Pro Football Focus for years.

Now in their own renegade pirate ship, check the mic with a 33rd team.

Sam Monson and Steve Palazzolo.

Welcome to Heat the Call, Boys.

Thank you.

It's great to be here.

What an intro.

Beautiful.

It's true, though, right, Sessdog?

We got Sam and Steve right around the same time.

I think it was last August, right?

We had our long run almost identically timeline-wise as well.

13 years, I think, 14 years we did there.

And we started this enterprise, and you guys started the same thing.

And we're very happy

where we're at here with Underdog and the type of show we're getting to do.

And Sam, the only man in the football entertainment business with a better Irish brogue than me, I'm sure you guys are feeling pretty good about your decision too, because I know the show's doing great.

Yeah, it's been great.

Unfortunately, the Irish accent has kind of waned over the years since we moved over to America, sadly, because now I kind of need it again, right?

There's a game going on in Dublin.

Now's the time I need to ham up the Irish accent that doesn't exist anymore.

But yeah, it was weird.

We'd been kind of working on,

you know, plotting our exit effectively for a while, like

looking to the future, looking to take our show kind of and try and get some ownership over it ourselves.

And almost right as we were prepared to do it, like you guys went there first.

Like, oh, look, other people are doing this as well.

This could work.

It was a weird time in NFL media, right?

Like, we new shows and, you know, just.

I remember at the same time being like, hey, you know, come see our new show, but like, you know, heed the calls going too.

And, you know, go, you know, make sure that you're catching everything, you know?

You guys had the

classic twitter announcement like a lot something big is coming uh you put it out there it was time with ours uh i would say that the one slight difference is that dan and i did not spend a lot of time planning our exit from nfl media it was planned uh to some degree for us so there were a couple uh months there that raised some questions about the future but um i'm thrilled i think all of us would be thrilled to see where our collective shows are here we are a couple months a month after the super bowl and here we are free agency right around the corner now.

And, you know, check the mic.

You guys are all over this, obviously.

And that's why we have you on the show because you guys are experts in this and understanding

what to expect this year.

And I'll start here because we had

Lance Zierline on the show last week, and he called the draft class of 2025 a mudroom draft, which, you know, not sexy, not something that you're excited to have, but important and functional.

I get the feeling, Steve, that we might have the same thing cooking a little bit with this free agency class.

We've had sexier in the past.

Is this a mudroom free agency class as well?

Yes, and it's probably going to get even worse, right?

Like with

franchise tags and all the top names, you know, essentially going back, you know, to their current team.

I feel like the last couple of years have been like this, right?

As teams have gotten a little bit more analytical, I think overall they're making making slightly better decisions it doesn't always show up in the records right somebody has to lose but i think overall the teams are doing a better job of keeping their own not letting big names get to free agency and that's why every year you get to free agency and it's like oh i got some big names but no there's there's not really a whole lot so you got to get that second wave of starting caliber players but not the big splashy names Are we, I just feel like to your point that there's been a shift in what free agency represents for the more modern front office because, you know, we can all remember the splashy like the Eagles' dream team or the year that the Dolphins went absolutely nuts.

And it, you know, it didn't pan out or work.

And they started to leave sort of in-season disaster stories.

Like

the players don't seem to be getting to market.

And you got a team like the Patriots that has a ton of cap room.

Like they're kind of out of luck if they're looking for like four or five players that are going to like change the organization through free agency.

It seems like a different environment to me.

Here's the other part of it, guys.

Like the salary cap has never been higher, right?

All these teams are flushed with cash.

What are the Patriots have like $125 million or something like that?

So I think what we might end up seeing here, Sam, is

on a scale that we've never seen before, because you're having this, like these two things happen.

The cap's never been higher.

And then in this case, you have a free agency class that's a little bit meh, that we're going to see guys that have no business getting the contracts that they're going to get.

And I can't wait for it.

I can't wait for the carnage.

One thing I've been thinking about, and I want, I want to, and we're going to have Jordan and Mike, our regulars on the show on Thursday.

I want to start putting together a free agency Bible.

Like, what's the gospel of how to not fuck this part of the season up, right?

And how to be smart in your spending, make your team better without crippling your finances and making mistakes that lead you to not go after somebody you want a year from now, that kind of stuff.

So it's going to be an interesting, I think, next few weeks from that perspective when you look at those two sides of it.

So

yeah, I mean, I think Mark is right.

we've seen a shift in just what free agency is i keep coming back to remember when albert hainsworth was a free agent right albert hainsworth at the time was arguably the best defensive tackle in the nfl hits the open market and it's like who can throw the most money at albert hainsworth who then obviously disappointed to the like a record-breaking degree by just

downing tools, right?

I've done it now.

I got paid.

I'm done.

That doesn't really happen anymore.

Like those guys do not hit the marketplace.

And if they ever leave the team that they're on, they tend to get traded away.

Like teams are good at getting something out of those guys.

So this whole world now, like free agency used to kind of be the wild west.

Nobody really knew what they were doing.

It was all guesswork.

Teams would spend, they'd go into cap hell, and then they'd reboot and go all over again.

Now, almost everybody has a pretty good idea of what they're doing.

The best players don't hit free agency.

If you want those guys, you're going to have to give up significant trade capital.

And as you said, there's never been more money to spend.

And again, even now, the smarter teams are like, well, you don't go in a spending frenzy and just bring everybody in, but you can spend pretty healthy money and bring in, you know, a series of guys that are going to start, that are going to be useful contributors, that are going to be important players, but are not, you know, you can't like, let's just go buy a dream team right now because we've got $150 million.

It's like, let's take off several important players that we don't have to go find in the draft now, and let's continue to sort of build the team the right way.

And then, what we were talking about the other day with the Debo trade, like having a bunch of cap space is not a bad thing, just inherently, right?

You don't need to get rid of it all and spend it just because you have it there.

It's always useful to have that war chest sitting there so that if a guy suddenly does become available who's, you know, on a bloated contract that a team wants to get rid of, you actually have the ammunition to make that happen.

Whereas other teams that spent all their pocket money are out of luck.

Makes sense.

And let's now turn our attention to this draft class, excuse me, this free agency class.

And, you know, why don't we start at the quarterback position wither Sam Darnold?

So he is obviously the big QB name.

I understand that, and I don't know if it's both of you or one of you, but how scared are we of Darnold being the next really bad contract?

Do you think he's a guy?

Would you run from Sam Darnold if you were running a team and you needed a quarterback right now, Steve?

I'm not running from him, but I don't know if I'm running to him.

You know, I'm very lukewarm.

I'm lukewarm on Sam.

I'm a big, we're data people here, guys.

And we have one great data point with Sam Darnold, which was last year.

But it coincides with this other data point, and that's Kevin O'Connell, right?

And

the Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, T.J.

Hawkinson trio.

I mean, we now have Kevin O'Connell getting the very best out of Kirk Cousins, right?

A 500-career quarterback who he was winning, what, 60%, 70% of his games with.

And we have Sam Darnold with an absolute career year after looking like his career was over.

And so that's the challenge is if you're the Raiders or you're the Titans or you're another team that's like, yeah, we'll do that with Sam Darnold.

Are you trusting for the next four years at 40 million or whatever it might be that you can do that as well?

If you're honest, if you're truly honest.

So that's the challenge with Darnold.

Plus, Sam, as you like to keep highlighting, the last two games weren't just bad, right?

They were like, hey, we're in 2018 rookie year, Sam Darnold bad.

Ghost's bad.

Yeah.

We've seen ghosts against the Lions and Rams.

Yeah, not great.

So lukewarm, lukewarm takes on Sam Darnold over here for me.

I'm trying to think of another offseason where if you're one of these five or six teams that needs to go find a quarterback, that you're almost going to be forced into something that heading into the year,

you are pretty certain is going to have milquetoast results.

Like, you've got the two draftable guys, and

we'll see what happens with them.

But the free agent crop is after Darnold, and he's sort of like the chip to fall.

And that's why you're hearing like trade gossip about Matt Stafford that's now gone away.

But it's like, how do you find these guys?

Because I don't think you can sell to a fan base, hey, we're going to roll Jameis Winston out there for 17 games.

Yeah, and look, this is why the Darnold thing is interesting because he wasn't just pretty good last year.

Like, it wasn't just a sort of slight step forward from his baseline and maybe there's some viability there.

He was really good for most of the season and then imploded right at the end.

And it's like, you know, you look at that and you say, well, that there's a season in there.

If he doesn't, like if he doesn't completely melt down right at the death, you're looking at that and saying, perfect, he's the guy going forward.

And you get, you can give him a decent contract and you can be happy that he's going to be your starting quarterback.

And we've answered the question.

Now you saw the very last two games.

You're like, well, at the very minimum, there's a scary element to that, but that it feels like he should get the next one of those Baker Mayfield, Geno Smith type of contracts, right?

You're not getting $55 million a year.

You didn't prove beyond all doubt that you're definitely the guy, but you at least, you know, show that you can be the guy.

And the 15 million discount is the scare factor.

Like, because you melted down at the end, we should get 15 million a year just as insurance back on that.

And that kind of feels where it should land.

I don't know whether it will or not, but that's what I think a team should be trying to get out of him.

Yeah, and I am, I don't know if you're aware, guys, but I am the queen bee of the Darnold Hive.

I always believed in him.

I was so happy to see him have that moment.

It was kind of crushing to see it the way it ended and marred an otherwise brilliant comeback season for him.

But yeah, I think even deep within the Darnold Hive, there's a general understanding that let's make sure Sam ends up in a place that makes sense for him.

Don't send him to Siberia.

Don't send him to one of the New York teams.

Don't have him sign a big contract with a team that doesn't have the right structure around him, or you might end up looking very foolish if you are a team builder.

Now, you mentioned that, Steve, you're data people.

And I'm curious if the data backs up.

Now, this person is not a free agent, but he could become one, or he could be moved in a trade.

Like, this is not just the free agency conversation necessarily.

It's new league year and the trades that will come.

Wither Kirk Cousins.

So here's my question.

He went out there and he let it be known Super Bowl week that, hey guys, like right around week 10, I banged up my elbow, banged up my shoulder, and that explains why I became the worst quarterback in football.

Did the

game tape, did the analytics back that up?

Was he a serviceable or to good quarterback before that injury?

And because I'm thinking he's one guy I got my eye on if you're looking for a bridge quarterback that might give you some real value at a pretty good cost.

Cousins, shot, not shot?

I would not take a shot on Kirk Cousins at this point.

And even, yeah, I think there's something to something happened in the second half of the season.

We all watched that Monday night football game right before he got benched where I think the Falcons were afraid to call a pass.

I think we were afraid to watch a pass, a dropback at all from Cousins.

He had that game against the Chargers with the four interceptions and just some awful, awful turnovers in the red zone.

So my concern with Cousins is I feel like not only has he been a great businessman, but he's also been great at selecting a team with great pass catchers with an indoor environment.

I'm a big dome guy, right?

I'm a big believer if a guy's playing in a dome eight to 10 times a year, that helps a lot statistically.

And Cousins has had the benefit of playing indoors for the last seven or eight years in Minnesota and Atlanta.

And I think he's kind of made those decisions to make sure that he's in those good places.

So if you're Cleveland, there's no way I could be the Cleveland Browns and say, yeah, Kirk Cousins is our guy.

Bring him in.

Pittsburgh, you know, in the AFC North, or the Jets.

I just couldn't do that.

So could Cousins in the perfect environment with great pass catchers still have success?

Yes.

I just don't know if that environment, we're talking the Giants, the Jets, the Steelers, the Browns.

So many of those teams just don't fit the bill for Kirk Cousins right now.

Yeah, Buyer, beware on that.

I'd agree.

You know, the wide receiver group to me is it's intriguing, but also puzzling and without a lot of big answers beyond T.

Higgins.

It's like, I feel like every one of these guys, we're a little concerned about the age.

We're a little concerned about the durability.

Like Chris Godwin is a wonderful receiver, but coming off a massive knee injury.

And I feel like there's a lot of guys here.

It's like, if you're looking for a three, I can give you a three.

If you're looking for a two, I can give you a three.

Like, it's, it's, there, they're patches and there's depth there.

But

is there a diamond in the rough, do you think?

That like there's a good mix of age, health, possibilities?

I mean, I think there's a lot of guys.

Everyone's got something to be scared of.

I think that's another way of putting it.

Like, there's just no sort of super clean prospect where everything's good, they're hitting free agency at the right age, you know, and you've total confidence in throwing money at them.

But I think there's some like interesting reclamation project type receivers.

Like, Marquise Brown is going to hit free agency.

We really never got to see what he would look like in that offense with Patrick Mahomes.

He got injured almost immediately as soon as he got there.

Okay, he made it back, but who knows sort of what version of Marquise Brown Brown that was or how much sort of he missed during that time of getting up to speed with the offense,

figuring out exactly how he would work.

But like, he's a guy that's got speed that can play in multiple different positions in an offense that isn't, you know, crazy old, is still in his prime, mid-20s.

I like if I needed a receiver in this group where you're like, this is not a, it's not a great year for receivers, I'd definitely be interested in kicking the tires on Marquise Brown and bringing him in.

Hmm.

You know, you guys are

going to say we dress alike and agree on the same player.

I mean, I would love to believe in Amari Cooper or Stephon Diggs or New Kopkins, but I did a year ago on all of those guys, but a year happened.

And sometimes that year means a lot in receiver land.

So that's my challenge with those guys.

Along those lines, so T.

Higgins is pretty clearly seen as the guy, the top guy amongst these wide receivers.

You are Cincinnati-based.

You're close.

You got your boots on the ground around that facility.

I'm kind of curious what, first of all, one, where you come down on T.

Higgins, if he were to actually get to the open market and be someone, is he worth paying and emptying the bank account for to be your dude?

And two, what's the general burrow vibe going on right now in your part of Ohio?

How much pressure do you think he's putting on the Bengals right now?

And do you think that's a good thing?

Oh, I think he's putting a ton of pressure on them.

Like, I have rarely seen a quarterback sort of be as vocal and as

direct that Burrow has been towards the organization of saying, we can keep all of these guys.

Here's how we can keep all of these guys.

Like, this is extremely doable.

Get it done effectively.

I can't remember too many instances where a quarterback has been that clear and that direct about every one of these personnel moves that he expects and wants the organization to make.

And because really, it seems like the main stumbling block with the Bengals is it's basically the way they do business, right?

It's the guaranteed money that they would have to lock up, the future guaranteed money that they would have to lock up.

And these are things they don't like to do traditionally as an organization.

And basically, since Burrow has gotten here, he has consistently gotten this franchise to break precedents, to do things that they haven't done in the past.

There's a practice bubble that didn't exist before Joe Burrow was here.

They used to have to practice rain, wind, or shine under an overpass with a train going by over ahead.

Like Burrow changed that.

Absurd.

This is why our late departed great friend Chris Wesling quit and divorced the Cincinnati Bengals.

Exactly things like that, playing under a train overpass, like a big.

And this is the stuff that Burrow has already gotten changed.

So I think he's put a ton of pressure onto them, and I think they should do what he wants.

I think it's the right decisions.

Yeah, that's why I just don't believe that T.

Higgins will ever see market.

I just, I don't at this point.

It would be sort of a stunning development.

Does he deserve to be?

Do you think Higgins, like the, what is the going rate, like a $30 million price tag?

Like, what is it going to cost Higgins?

And is that on the subject of like being smart about your team building when you're going to eventually lock in Jamar Chase?

Does it make sense to have two guys at the highest paid level of the position when you got a franchise

top five quarterback already, I just don't know if it's smart business.

That's the thing I keep on coming back to with the one team that needs help.

I'd say one quick thing.

We know that it works.

They're not gambling on someone that we don't have proof positive.

And it's like, I wouldn't break this up at all.

That's just me.

Well, Define works since the Super Bowl.

Well, I mean, they have one of the more compelling offenses around.

They even won without Burrow at times.

Hang on.

Mommy and Daddy are fighting.

I'll let you guys hash it out.

What do you guys think?

I mean, I always view it like this: like when the Chiefs locked up Patrick Mahomes, and it's like, all right, we know we have him for the next decade plus.

What do you want to do with the next three contracts?

Right.

So, you know, you can afford

at the time, it was like three $20 million players.

Now we're $30 million players.

What do you want to do with the next three?

And most teams would say wide receiver one, a tackle, and an edge rusher, right?

And so the Bengals have this opportunity to make it receiver one in Chase, receiver 1A in Higgins, and maybe a Trey Hendrickson as an edge.

Like they have the people in-house to say those next three contracts are good, and we feel good about them.

Hendrickson's in his prime, and Chase is in his prime, and Higgins has some injury concerns.

That is a concern, but we could lock that up and then say, okay, now from here on out, we have to draft well.

And that's where the Bengals have been missing out.

So I'm with Mark.

Like, I think it's worked as in this team can score 30 points every single year if they're all healthy.

And now you have to hit on some draft picks, and you just need an average, mediocre defense.

So if they find a way to keep that trio intact, we have one of the best offenses that can compete with those teams in the AFC, the Chiefs, the Bills, the Ravens, whoever it is, year in, year out.

Now you have to do better in the draft.

Justin, can we cut out, I agree with Mark and Post?

Thank you very much.

Moving right.

Goes a long way with me.

Hey, on the defensive side of it, let's talk a little free agency and defense.

Do you guys...

Now, this is like a once-in-a-decade type situation, but is there another Zach Bond out there?

And in general, what do you think about, you know, Zach Bond being a guy completely unheralded that becomes a defensive player of the year candidate?

Probably not.

But in general, like when you look at the defensive side of the ball, what are the areas that are most plentiful for teams in need?

The funny thing is, we might get Zach Bond being Zach Bond again.

I'm not sure the Eagles are going to have the...

Well, they have the ammunition.

I'm not sure they're going to want to do it, though, given the contract price tag.

So maybe a team can get a second crack at Zach Bond at a dramatically different price tag this time around.

I think there's a ton of defensive linemen this year.

Like, I think they're not, again, they're not the flashy names, like the best defensive linemen in the NFL.

But I think there's a lot of guys in this world of everyone has a rotation.

You know, everyone's got six or seven guys that are going to play snaps on the defensive line.

You can get people that are going to come in and be significant parts of that.

And half of them are coming from the Eagles.

Even if Dallas, you know, franchise tags a Diggy Zua, you've got Milton Williams, you've got Josh Sweat, you've got the cast off that is Bryce Huff, who was a healthy scratch, but this time a year ago was like the game's most efficient

situational pass rusher.

Like these are all guys that I think are going to end up being available and not necessarily bank-breaking contracts.

Second wave, second wave players, Levi Anzarique, that type of guy.

I mean, it's challenging, guys.

Like you mentioned this earlier, Mark, about some of the price tags on these guys.

Like some of these guys have to get paid.

Milton Williams goes from like, hey, this dude's underrated and, you know, really nice part of this Eagles rotation.

And it's like, boom, 22 million, right?

That's going to happen soon.

And so I struggle with that.

It's not my money.

It's just you're playing the cap game, right?

You're trying to fit all these guys in.

I struggle with that.

So I think that's second wave.

The Anzariques.

could be

the Zach Bond for this year, not defensive player of the year, but at the end of the day, at the end of the year, you're like, hey, this guy had eight sacks and they just paid eight million for him when other guys were going for 22 i think those are the types of deals that you keep an eye on in free agency maybe another position group that feels strong to me is um i think there are a lot of it's like guys that can help and there's secondary guys like carlton davis um treverius ward javon holland i mean these guys are either veterans depending what kind of team you are they can come in and change your locker room as well and these are the that's the kind of addition that i want i think would you agree that that position group's looking pretty solid at this point

and I think

the Lions have done this really well in the last few years.

Like free agent corner, free agent secondary in particular, I think is a really good group where you can get a guy to just stop you having to draft a first round corner or safety or whatever.

Like just plug a hole.

Somebody that you think, this guy can start.

We might not want him starting for the next three years, but he can start right now and allow us to just go best player available in the draft.

And I think you're right.

Like there's a ton of those guys for basically any scheme you want at any position in the secondary.

And safety in particular, there's so many safeties in this free agent group.

I think the market is going to be awful for those guys.

Like, I feel bad for safety.

It's already a depressed marketplace.

Now, half the really good ones in the league are hitting free agency at the same time.

It doesn't feel like they're going to get paid big money.

So if you need a safety, I think it's a great year to go just go nuts, grab a couple of guys in free agency for bargain prices.

Where are you in trouble if you're looking for a position group in this free agency class?

I mean, receiver one, as we just talked about with Higgins, receiver generally, but the NFL has done a great job of putting twos and threes into the league the last couple of years.

College has supplied a lot of receivers, so I don't think there's a ton of teams in huge demand there.

I would say

really high-end tackles, right?

There's Ronnie Stanley, and he might not make it to the market.

And then it's like, all right, well, Cam Robinson, you're worth 20.

and it's like all right you know that might not be the best price tag there um

so i think

looking for stars man you know if you need stars on your team you're certainly not gonna just be like open the checkbook checkbook next monday and and things are good yeah they like the

obviously saquan barkley and the reason the eagles you know obviously are champions now is in addition to having a solid base, then they supplemented it with a really great draft and some all-time moves in free agents.

We mentioned Bon, Saquon Barkley.

Obviously, there's not a Saquon Barkley out there, but as we've talked about on our show,

how underlining being strong up front and having a running game to really balance out your offense, like who is, Najee Harris is a guy that comes to mind.

It's like, if Najee Harris was on a better team and a better setup, potentially, could he be better than what he's been so far?

Which is fine, not good, not bad.

Is there any guy that, is Najee Harris a guy that would interest you in the right setup?

A la Sam Darnold as a quarterback?

In general, is there any running free agents that you guys are kind of like you would you want to grab if you were running a team and they might not be at the top of the radar of some teams?

Morgan Moses every year.

I'm just going to bring our own shows jokes to the list today, right?

Because Morgan Moses has been a great, dependable right tackle.

And I thought it was a great move by the Jets.

It led them to the number seven overall pick this year, as you can see.

But

Morgan Moses, if you need a right tackle, that dude's going to come in and start and probably not get hurt.

So that's my guy every year.

I know you also love the barbarian.

Yeah.

Dennis Kardak.

You've mentioned him quite a bit.

Steve, who I could see in a barbarian outfit 3,000 years ago and would fit right in.

Can we pull one out?

Ron Wolfley is retiring, and he was like the one reason why I listened to Arizona Cardinals' preseason games because he sounds like Jesse the body and I just wanted to hear him talk about the barbarian and everything.

It was great.

So

Cardinals.

The worst part of that is I forget about it every year and it's like a nice surprise come free agent time.

It's like the sound comes on.

It's like, oh, I forgot.

Jesse the body announcer is on.

It's like the best part of free season.

You got a dude, Sam, that you love and conversely that you would run from in free agent?

I would be, I think guys like Darius Slayton in the right team.

Like Darius Slayton is, there's a lot of these guys.

Jacoby Myers was this previously, where when they're forced to be like the top option, it's like, man, this guy is like a

poster for what's wrong with this team, right?

When Darius Slayton is one of your best receivers, it's awful.

But if you actually find a good receiving core and you're like missing a number three that can go vertical and make some big plays, like Darius Slayton, I think, could be a really nice addition to a couple of different offenses in the NFL.

And suddenly you're talking about, wow, how did they let, you know, this team end up with Darius Slayton?

Look at this guy.

I think there's a few guys like that around.

People that I would be, I think there's so many free agents, this group, that it's not that I would run scared from them.

It's that there's something to be scared of, right?

So, you know, Makai Beckton, right?

Great season for the Eagles.

Even that season, we're still dealing with injuries and his injury history generally would be something to be pretty scared of.

So the Chiefs, if they tag Trey Smith and all of a sudden Makai Bechton might be the top guard on the board, I mean, are you giving Makai Bechton like high-end guard money with his injury history?

I'd be pretty scared of that.

Oh, we got some developing news.

Rap sheet, the Bengal have, in fact, franchise tagged wide receiver T.

Higgins a second time?

Per T.

Higgins.

So maybe not per rap sheet.

No surprise since he wants, obviously, we just talked about it with Burrow putting the pressure on the organization.

He has

a second tag now.

He's very expensive.

We'll see now if they can turn that into a contract.

Could it be moved in a trade?

I don't know.

We shall see.

But the Bengals are going through the motions at least to keep this guy around.

So there you go, boys.

At least one more year of seeing them, right?

So that's

at least buys you time.

Second tag, one more year.

And

I was a Jermaine Burton fan last year for the Bengals.

Character issues, but the upside, like if he hit all of his talent, he would make T.

Higgins expendable.

I'm interested to see if they draft another receiver and say, okay,

now we can make T.

Higgins

expendable.

So that'll be interesting in the draft if they could find a replacement potentially and then let him walk finally.

Or, you know, they can trade him.

I mean, this is like

Philadelphia when they acquired A.J.

Brown, you know, that was a first-round draft pick.

I don't think that T.

Higgins is that good.

I don't think he's in that category, but you let him walk, you know, you're saving some money, you're getting maybe a comp pick out of it.

You tag him, you could potentially trade him for a first-round draft pick

right up until those first-round draft picks are spent, right?

So, sure, they can definitely keep him, and that might be the most likely scenario, but I wouldn't rule out the idea that this is that he might not be there this time

or come the season.

They might still move him,

Steve, Sam, you've said it all.

Tell people where they could find Check the Mike.

Everywhere.

Everywhere.

You can listen to podcasts, YouTube.

We've got a new studio being built soon, so you can see us on YouTube and our new studio very soon.

But yeah, anywhere you listen to your podcast, search Check the Mike.

Sese, that feels like a little bit of a, if we are on parallel tracks, we got to start breaking ground on a studio.

How much space do you have in that Hollywood setup of yours?

I would call it a studio, like maybe if you were a Lego figure, a collection of Lego figures, but not for actual-sized humans.

Guys, we're very happy for you and the launch of your enterprise.

And

it's so good to connect, and let's do it again soon.

Have a great day.

Thank you, guys.

Thank you, guys.

Amazing what you guys have created as well.

It's awesome.

It's a love fest.

Thanks, guys.

There goes Steve.

And Sam, check the mic.

Yes, get them anywhere, anywhere, and be smarter about football if you do.

All right, moving on.

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audience only.

All right.

Mark, that was great.

Sam and Steve, just the beginning of our content and breakdown of the free agency class, which unveils, obviously, when the new league year kicks off next week.

But we got some one last thing we want to share with the audience.

We're very excited about our Patreon,

patreon.com slash heed the call, which has all sorts of bonus content if you love our show and want more of it.

We have our Friday fun show which I know people really seem to enjoy Ceci.

Yeah, I think it's one of the easiest in a good way things that we do all week because it's

just us being

hangout-ish.

And I think people, if you get behind that paywall, you're going to find out why it's a hit.

Yeah, so you got the Friday fun show.

And just to give people that are curious about the Patreon, we're going to make the Friday fun show this week available for everyone.

As long as you go over to patreon.com slash heed the call, you could do a free tier sign up, and that will give you access to Friday Fun Show.

We, of course, have a new,

new, a brand new

I Dream and Red newsletter,

which is something you cannot miss.

I'm sure there's all sorts of interesting content in there.

Also a new throwback podcast with Bob Castrone and myself, breaking down the, I believe it was the winter of 1996, top 10 on the modern rock charts.

That's a fun conversation.

And big announcement, Justin.

La la la brand new show on the Patreon.

It's called It Came

from the Subreddit

hosted by yours truly where the

He the Call subreddit, which is popping off.

I believe there's over, what, 11,000 people on that and growing every day.

A lot of dialogue, sese on that place.

And, you know, I've been on the record that there are good things about the subreddit, and sometimes it's a real sewer.

And I decided, why don't we have a forum where we could check in and

communicate with these people, in some cases these serpents, and really get to the bottom of the things that people want to know about the show.

It's a little bit of an inside baseball program every month.

That's exclusively on patreon.com/slash heat the call.

You've got some hardcore psychotes on there, and I mean that in a positive way in terms of their devotion to the whole thing.

And I can only imagine the questions and debate that will come from it.

I will actually be tuning into that just to find out what unfurls, because I think it could lead to

some of Dan's best moment.

I mean, you're going to, you're going to, is this sort of like a late-night, overnight radio host type situation where you're,

working with, you know, the viewers.

I think it's going to be a nice, yeah, like that kind of schmoozer, Steve Summers, just me in the audience talking about things that we might not talk about on Heed the Call proper.

And if I need backup, like in a cop movie from like, you know, Lethal Weapon 2 type situation, I need backup.

Maybe Ceci, you jump on an episode and we tackle certain issues together.

But make sure you check it out.

It came from the subreddit.

Just the latest offering.

Ceci, any final thoughts?

Well, only my only concern, because I know how the subreddit and most subreddits work, it's like, oh, is the show better without Mark on it?

Like, that's the one kind of trapdoor you could find yourself as the other person falling into.

Like, I kind of think the show is a little more functional when Dan's just operating solo and Mark's.

You're the mind.

The way the mind operates with you sometimes, Seci.

I think you get where I'm coming.

Like, you, like, whenever someone's like on vacation for a week, it's like, is the show better without fill in the blank?

Because they're like in the Hamptons or or something?

You know?

Who's in the Hamptons?

Well, not us, but I just picked a vacation place.

I don't think that's a good thing.

What's up?

Did Mark fall?

Did he hit his head during the break?

No, no, no.

I just like, I'm saying that we know how this corner of the universe works.

We've all

been in the crosshairs.

So,

okay, good.

So, yes, check it out.

Patreon,

heed the call.

And yes, all the calls.

I'm sure one of the questions are about merch, Mark.

Merch is coming.

Yep.

Merch is coming.

Thank you again

to Steve and Sam.

We'll be back on Thursday with a brand new episode.

Until then, do what you must.

Heed the call.

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