NFL Playoffs Stock Up & Stock Down (with Josh Norris)

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The Heed the Call podcast.

Dreams of settling down in Bozeman, Montana.

Peaceful.

Wonderful.

Just a different, a change of pace in life.

Hmm.

Welcome to Heed the Call.

Dan Hanses and Mark Sessler.

And our buddy Connor Orr.

With Justin Graver on the ones and twos.

It's the midweek show.

They had a championship weekend.

Can you believe it, Sesta?

Can you believe it?

I would love to settle down in Bozeman, Montana, and just, you know, quietly write a novel and pet a horse.

That's what I do with my days.

It's a fair question to ask, Mark, that

you

actually chose at this stage of your life to move into Hollywood in the hustle and bustle of that region, which is essentially really the opposite of Bozeman, Montana.

Do you see the, I guess you see a future chapter where you're removed from everything?

Wow.

It's been a tremendous success up to now.

So like we let's call it that from all from all fronts.

But yeah, I could see a like a hard right turn into

a pastoral mid-country setting.

Yes, I would do that.

Leading with it's been a tremendous success.

I don't know, Connor,

what that means.

It seemed like, I don't know, it's hard for me to track that one.

Are you buying that, that Mark's going to be in Bozeman, Montana in the next 15 years?

He has yet to really go through his John Mayer born and raised period where the hair grows out and then he becomes increasingly distant.

And I like getting in touch with Mark.

I've always been able to get in touch with Mark, but I do foresee a period of time where that becomes impossible and he's just,

he's out in the ether.

I think that's always been within the range of outcomes with Mark when you think about what's the long-term idea of what Mark is and where he will end up.

That we might just eventually just not even know where he is on the earth, not even know if he's alive, but we just hope.

You just kind of like, wherever he is, I hope he's happy, that type of thing.

So it's certainly with, you know, again,

with Mark, it's within the range of outcomes.

Welcome to Heath the Call.

I don't want to add to that.

I'm just going to let it

sit.

Connor, sorry about your fight in Irish.

National Championship game

did not go exactly as you had hoped.

It didn't, but I will say this.

These are champagne problems to have for a Notre Dame fan where on Tuesday morning we're debating the merits of kicking a field goal in the fourth quarter against the most powerful team in the country or like, oh, we shouldn't have been in cover zero.

The last time we were in the national championship, we lost by like like 120 finging points to Alabama.

Like, this was a game.

And that's all I wanted.

And I'm 100% thrilled.

I'm 100% content.

And I think the program has nowhere to go but up from here.

I will say.

That's dick.

We don't need that.

You dick.

We don't need that.

That was unnecessary.

I would say that I think the Irish end up where they're slotted correctly.

Like the culture of the Irish, they're slotted correctly.

I will say I noticed picked up on this.

Well, we don't need to be winning.

If you're Irish, you don't need to be winning.

You need to suffer a little bit.

And we

part of their culture is to suffer and to tell us about it.

And especially, like, I think about your colleague Bert Breer, like, what a great Monday in general.

Like, that's a big Monday, top to bottom for Bert.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm sure Albert enjoyed himself, and I just don't really want to talk to him until we have to tape the podcast again next week together.

I'm sure that'll be great.

I have one gripe about Ohio State.

Like, in general, you go through all the life cycles during the game where, you know, at first I'm like, I'm happy to be there.

And then we score on the first drive, and then they're beating us by 30 points.

And at that point, that's when like 16-year-old Connor comes out and it's just like, well, none of these f ⁇ ing guys go to class.

And like at Notre Dame, we take it seriously.

And and then like you you come back around to the end and I was so joyful and content but I will say this Ryan Day got covered in Gatorade and at the coach's handshake tried to bro hug Marcus Freeman who is in a beautiful like a white cashmere like zip down dick move like you know he doesn't want to get wet with your Gatorade you know back off

Be a little considerate, you know?

That's just university-issued merch, though, right?

That's not one-of-one or anything.

I don't know.

I mean,

Lou Holtz had a one-of-one on last night.

Did you see that?

Notre Dame head coach Lou Holtz

with the 88 hat on.

We saw it, Connor.

I don't think you can buy that.

I want it to.

Well, you're taking it very well.

That's good.

I'm in a good spot.

Good.

Good, good, good.

Better than I was yesterday.

There's some type of bug going across this country.

I hope those that have caught it, that are listening or watching right now, know what I speak of.

You do not want this.

I don't think I'm the same man that I was 24 hours ago.

It changed me.

It changed my viewpoint on things.

And

I'll just say I'm glad that I'm doing the show right now.

But

the Dan Hansis of Sunday night's show and the Dan Hansis of Tuesday's recording are different people, fundamentally.

Be careful out there.

Clean your hands as much as possible.

All right.

With that says,

what was that?

Says

that said, let's catch up on some news.

What's up, y'all?

Jameis here.

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Am I allowed to just financially capitalize on like the dumbest thing I ever did?

Like a crime?

I'd have to pick between four or five things.

Is Cam Newton going to sell free laptops now?

Like, what are we doing?

Do you know that I was thinking about this when I saw that Jameis Winston selling crab legs or something?

And we're going to, yeah, we're not sure yet.

Looks like we're going to be heading to New Orleans for some of the Super Bowl festivities.

And

can you even imagine how much money, like pocket cash, Jameis is going to make and how many promotional opportunities, how often you will see Jameis Winston?

The man will have a tent set up at Radio Row because I got a feeling he's going to take advantage of this

new image he has as like this smiling pitch man that everyone seems to love.

That's my prediction.

He will be everywhere.

You will not be, for all these shows that do the Radio Row car wash interviews, every show that you watch slash listen to will have jameis winston on the set that is my prediction gary i would say one thing your goal if you're going to do anything like this is to not be boring and he's not boring now you may not buy it

but he's there is a joy to him and like i wish i had i wish i felt joy about um past events in my life the way that he does like i think he there's something about him that i'm like I don't know.

Like, this was a dumb thing that you did.

He stole crab legs from a grocery store, right?

that was what happened when he was by the way if that's the worst thing you've ever done and i i he did other things too like um

that was i'm gonna say like is that like that that as a sin is not the craziest thing we've ever heard no no no of course not of course not all right let's get into it uh the bears make their

decision at head coach naming former Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson as their new head coach.

The team announced it on Tuesday.

Johnson had been the wizard behind all those Lions trick plays for the past three seasons, filling the job vacated by Matt Eberflus, who was fired in late November.

So here we go again.

And there's always, there seems to be a revolving cycle of excitement and then despair with the Chicago Bears.

They're one of those organizations.

This will now trigger, Mark, the latest idea that the Bears are finally going to turn around because, again, same things we were talking about last year before the season started.

There's a lot of pieces here.

You have a talented young quarterback in Caleb Williams.

And now, will it make sense when Ben Johnson takes over this offense?

And not just the offense, the whole team, Ben Johnson to the Bears.

I mean, I guess if you're the Bears, you're saying this is the best person we could have hired in this cycle.

And there's a lot of optimism.

We've got a young quarterback.

And I, you know, I asked Connor a couple of weeks ago, like,

what is the personality of Ben Johnson?

And what I have, you know, what we've discerned and what we've read recently is that he is a bit of a badass.

Like, he will chew you out.

He is someone who's very intense, very driven.

I don't, I wonder for me more what the role of the head coach versus the, you know, in the bunker play caller type person is.

But this is a huge move for the Chicago Bears because I have major questions about who they are as an organization, the ownership on down.

And they got this coach.

They got him.

And it's, you pulled it from a division opponent who knows the division very well.

So, if you're a Bears fan, you have to say this is the best possible outcome.

There's a lot to dissect, I think, from this, but a couple things.

I would be curious to see how much money was on the table from Las Vegas and how much he ends up taking in Chicago.

Very interested to see if that ends up kind of coming out at some point.

Ben was the number one option in three different places: in Jacksonville, in Las Vegas, and in Chicago.

And so, to keep him in Chicago and to not let him get anywhere else, and all along we're talking about, well, it's not aligned, it's not aligned.

I thought this was as good of a job as Ryan Poles could have done to land the plane here.

And yes, there are some guys who are friendlier with Ben in the back office in Chicago who I think helped seal the deal a little bit.

Having probably the best roster out of all those teams or, you know, close to the best roster helped seal the deal.

But like every part of the football operation has their own separate Super Bowl.

This for the the Bears was the owners' Super Bowl, the GM Super Bowl, and the team president's Super Bowl.

They got the most sought-after head coaching candidate since Adam Gase.

And I'm not making fun of Ben Johnson, but Adam Gase is the last assistant that I can remember that had like a three-year run of hype and success going into eventually where he ended up picking.

And Ben Johnson actually worked for Adam Gase.

Yeah, and they're close friends.

And a few weeks ago, we were having this conversation about Ben Johnson and where it made sense for him to be.

And a lot of people said, oh, he's perfect for Jacksonville because

his personality, his temperament put him down there in Jacksonville where it's a little, the temperature's turned down a little, it's perfect.

But then they decided to keep Trent Balky and that changed the dynamic of that conversation.

I guess my only question is some of those whispers that we heard about whether Ben Johnson, obviously a very talented X's and O's guy, now in a more CEO role

in a very difficult, you know, high-profile market, Chicago, obviously, where they're expected to immediately improve and become a playoff team, whether he is going to be a guy that works and thrives in the situation, or if he is not to, you know, pour cold water on things, is he the next Adam Gase,

a guy that was highly sought after as a play caller, but maybe didn't have the right stuff to be a head coach and then got exposed in a big market.

That's the other side of it.

I don't know enough.

You know, Connor, more than I do about Ben Johnson, but just to tell the both sides of this particular affair.

I would say, in that regard, keep an eye on the staff.

And I think that the staff in general is kind of telling the story for us, right?

Who are some of the initial names that surfaced?

I mean, certainly Dennis Allen, so you want someone with head coaching experience on the staff, but some other names that he liked, and I don't know if he's going to be able to land them, but Darren Rizze is a guy that is full of personality.

Someone that we obviously know can command a room.

One of the OC candidates, I think, is going to be Scotty Montgomery, who's the Lions run game coordinator and running backs coach.

And again, what you're doing is you're kind of backfilling for, you know, those dynamic personalities, the guys that you know are going to need to jump out there because it works.

It works for guys like Kyle Shanahan, who have always sought out D'Amico Ryans, Robert Sala, guys who can jump out and set the tempo from an emotional level while he can stay in the back room and craft these magnanimous game plans.

And so I think that Ben is kind of setting things things up similarly for himself in Chicago.

And the Bears did the thing where, obviously, you've got a young quarterback, you want an offensive head coach, so you don't lose your offensive coordinator to interviews year after year.

And they've done that.

And so I think for the Bears, who like to me seem like an, it seemed like an unattractive place to go based on ownership,

it is a huge win for the Chicago Bears and their fans.

I understand the ownership side, but I think it's a very attractive place.

I still think there's a lot of pieces on that roster.

They also have the number 10 overall pick, four picks in the top 72, and $75 million in cap space, which is top five in the league.

Like, all the pieces are there for this thing to finally turning to a winning operation.

Now, that division, it's a tough division.

But also, everybody in that division was cooked by the Sunday of divisional round playoffs, all three of those playoff teams.

So maybe they aren't the juggernauts that their record seemed to paint them as

in the regular season?

In other news.

Paint them as.

I love that.

I invented that expression.

The Colts also make a move.

You mentioned

Dennis Allen making sense as the DC with Ben Johnson.

The Colts hire former Bengals defensive coordinator Lou Anarumo for that same job in Indianapolis.

Captain Lou, as he became known on this show, had some really fine moments in Cincinnati, including one of the drive.

People forget when Cincinnati went to that Super Bowl that crazy year, they went there more on their defense and excellent special teams in that special playoff run than Joe Burrow on the offense.

So he definitely had high points.

Things kind of got into a different place in the past season, which led to Cincinnati making changes.

But the Colts are hoping that Anarumo lights a spark on that side of the ball.

It's hard, too, because I think he was a pure scapegoat, right, in Cincinnati, where where it didn't matter that he didn't become worse as a coach.

You got rid of DJ Reeder and half of your good defensive players in Cincinnati, and now your back's up against the wall.

And if you're Zach Taylor, this is the easiest and most cost-effective change that you can make.

I think Lou Annarumo is going to do great in Indianapolis.

And I think Cincinnati is going to continue to struggle because the problem wasn't the scheme.

The problem was you're trying to turn things over, get a lot of young players in there, but you still had some kind of these painfully old veterans who weren't pulling their weight.

And so it was this awkward dynamic where they didn't upgrade.

They didn't have the right guys in there and sort of a little bit of a brain drain going on there in Cincinnati, too, which is something to watch for.

No, I'm with you.

Like you don't, you don't become worse as a play caller on either side of the ball.

And like he, he wasn't the problem.

It was a personnel

personnel issue.

And so

it's a huge hire for Indianapolis.

And like

I think Lou and Aruma, like that's going to be looked back for the Bengals as a big mistake to move on from him because you got to go find someone better i'm not sure they will all right huge hire i don't know huge

i think it's a i think it i i do think it is it's a nice hire i'll give you a nice hire

it's a nice higher and now we're gonna tell captain lou all of a sudden his bill bell check in 1991 i mean yeah i don't think we're saying that but it's well you're saying it you said it was a huge higher

uh question for connor the rumor you say i was having a conversation with mark we weren't done yet

nobody talked after I hit the drive.

I know.

I was waiting for Mark's.

Anyway, go ahead, Justin.

What do you got?

Sure.

Go.

Just to move things along a little bit here, we have a Notre Dame expert on the pod.

We might as well ask him.

Mark just mentioned Zach Taylor's got to find someone better.

The rumor is, and this hasn't happened yet, that Notre Dame defensive coordinator Al Golden is who Zach Taylor has his sights set on.

So I'm wondering if you have any insight.

Well, I hope that Zach wasn't watching the game on Monday when we decided to do a cover-zero blitz against the greatest receiver in the NCAA.

No, but

Al Golden has been one of the main triggers behind this national championship run.

He's a great coach,

and I think it'd be a solid fit.

Again, it's just like, you know,

that wasn't your problem.

You need better players.

And so, I don't know.

We'll see.

Is Al Golden in your

phone?

Is he in your phone contacts?

Al Golden.

Hold on.

Let me check.

This is big.

Drum roll, please.

Well, it would just be So Connor if he was.

Also, if your name is Al Golden, and you're rolling around.

The land of golden helmets.

Yeah, rolling around town.

You got to stay at Notre Dame.

No.

I thought he was.

He's not.

Ouch.

You know who it was?

It could be under Alan Golden.

Al Gro, I thought was the.

Al Gro.

Wow, Al Gro.

That's a blast from the past.

All right, that's what's happening in the news.

Let's take a break, and when we get back, our great friend, Josh Norris, to talk about what's up and what's down in the NFL playoffs.

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All right.

We are back.

All right.

Now, the NFL playoffs, obviously, now we're down to just four teams.

So, with that said, after two rounds, it's time to take a little stock in what has happened so far.

Stock up, stock down.

And to do it,

we got to get a big dog in here.

The director of content and fantasy lead on Underdog.

I didn't even know.

I didn't even know that.

When did this happen?

This is Josh Norris.

Welcome back to Eat The Call.

Appreciate it.

Dan and Mark, you know, I love you guys, but I do want to say, Connor Orr is one of the best in the business.

Connor Orr, I think this is the first time we've ever podcasted together.

So while I will say yes every time you ask, Dan, I'm really here for Connor.

I have to ask, Josh, because is this a bio update on your social media?

About two weeks ago.

Does this mean

are you our boss?

Yeah, that was what I was going to say.

You are boss.

Should we, we will defer to anything that you suggest during this.

If I say yes, is this binding?

Director of content, that changes the entire framing of this conversation.

I got to be real.

Yes, Josh.

Great opinion about that.

Excellent point, Mr.

Norris.

You've done it again.

Not bad.

I mean, I will say, guys, I was like, been an underdog for three and a half years you know employee number 16.

so pretty good we know how big this we basically have 16 people working on the show so you know things have to grow and form and and get bigger as we go along so i'm excited it's a great place did our arrival boost your esteem 100

once you dropped my name it was oh josh is destined for director of content

And in all seriousness, Josh has always been a great guy to us and was a major reason that we joined joined the underdog family.

So this is a great time to be alive.

And here we are with the NFL playoffs stock up, stock down, Josh.

And this could be anything.

This could be a player.

This could be a coach.

This could be anything connected to the NFL playoffs.

Okay.

So why don't you get us going as our guest and maybe boss?

Go ahead, Josh.

I'm glad I'm going first because I'm a little nervous because these were not sent over to you.

So there might be some overlap.

I'm going to kick things off with Cliff Kingsbury.

I mean, this, this man was a proven loser, you know, 35 and 40 in college, 28 and 37 in the NFL.

The Cliff Cliff now looks like it was a Kyler Murray Cliff.

He was fired.

All the jokes were made that he went straight to Thailand for his vacation.

And that proved to be correct.

And then even at his time with the USC Trojans, Caleb Williams, after a Heisman trophy campaign, took a step back and looked absolutely worse.

I mean, you can can even fast forward to this preseason.

I thought the offense looked kind of pitiful.

It was being productive, but like Jaden Daniel's time to throw was 1.9 seconds.

He had the shortest air yards per attempt basically of the last three seasons at five and a half.

I was terrified of what this thing might look like.

And basically for the first two games, it was exactly the same.

And if we, again, reflect back, it was just to get a rookie quarterback settled.

It was to understand what this offense was capable of.

It was not to put put too much on his plate and then remove things as the season went along.

Instead, it was the exact opposite and just adding on over and over again, plus the offensive line playing much better.

Look, we've seen coaches who failed in their first tenure in the NFL, even look at Dan Quinn,

you know, not be successful and then come back, learn from that and be...

come rehired as NFL head coaches.

And it kind of feels like Cliff might be destined for that path, Connor.

I do.

And I'm so glad you did this.

This was one of mine.

And I have a a little bit of a fun bit of informed speculation, if you will, that I think makes this hyper relevant.

So

at the beginning of the season, I was talking to Dan Quinn, and he was telling me about Jerry Jones, giving him his blessing to leave and what that meant to Dan and Dan's relationship to Jerry, all that stuff.

That comes into play right now because the Cowboys have performed a very underwhelming coaching search to this point in time.

We're talking about Brian Schottenheimer.

Cliff Kingsbury wants to wait until the end of the season to start his interviews.

I do wonder if Cliff, who is from Texas, Dan Quinn, is going to tell him how great it is to work for Jerry Jones because he personally believes that.

Do we all of a sudden see Cliff come in and frog splash into this Cowboys coaching search?

Because right now, Kellen Moore is not having a great playoffs.

You know, at least when I was asking around about it last night, it didn't seem like this was a lock for him to just walk right into that coaching job.

I think Cliff is very interesting in Dallas at this point.

And imagine what would happen if

the Commanders win on Sunday and how, you know, two weeks of Super Bowl hype and celebration and all that.

I feel like, especially in places like the star, Marco Jera, that would even make him more attractive and build up the hype.

And all of a sudden, he'd feel very much like somebody that's a Cowboys hire.

Yeah, that's an interesting nugget.

And like, we went through the swoon with Cliff Kingsbury, where it was like, we thought at one point in this season, like, the offense is figured out, the quarterbacks figured out, and they rose their way out of that.

And so he, I love what you brought up, Josh, because I think he's his star was so low, and now it's like we're thinking about him in a very different way.

And like, he would be interesting for the Cowboys.

Like, I think they need something different and new.

And, like,

I don't know if I'd want him as a head coach necessarily, but I do think this is like someone that could

it could be a very interesting hire for the Cowboys.

Yeah.

By the way, for the listeners, when Mark went out of his way to say, I love what you said, Josh, I saw Josh take out his pen and make a mark.

Must have been a positive.

Well,

I've got to go.

I have to insert comments like that into the dialogue.

This tire is paying off much earlier than I was expecting.

Just real quick on what you were saying, Connor, like to me, he learned from past issues.

And a major part of that was bringing Anthony Lynn along with his staff.

Like dating back to Cliff's time in Arizona, there was just an inconsistent inconsistent running game over and over and over again.

And Anthony Lynn, run game coordinator, being a former head coach on top of it, just seemed to be a perfect fit and maybe balance out some of his tendencies as well.

All right, so stock way up on Cliff Kingsbury.

This one is a little bit atomic, and I almost don't want to bring it up, but I think it'd be irresponsible not to touch on it.

Lamar Jackson.

All right, where to go?

I'm going to say stock down, but just slightly, okay?

Like kind of down, but everybody just chill.

We got a lot of

pushback and blowback after our Sunday show that we essentially let Lamar off the hook and didn't give him really much grief at all for a game in which he, you know, he had two turnovers on back-to-back possessions.

But I just want to point something out to everybody.

And obviously the discourse is...

predictably has been out of control.

I saw Orlofsky on ESPN apologizing.

I don't know if he's apologizing to Stephen A.

Smith or something.

I think he called the bloggers losers and the podcasters losers.

I think we're still doing that.

We're still bloggers and podcasters losers in 2024.

Anyway, or 25.

Here are the Ravens possessions in full in their 27-25 playoff loss to the Bills.

Is this a good time to check the sync on these podcast poses?

Interception,

bad throw.

Didn't see the safe detail of wrap.

Followed by a Bills three and out, I must note.

Fumbled.

And now that fumble is followed by a Bills touchdown, and that is important.

But I just want to say, even that play, if you go back and you watch a play, it's an errant snap where he has to shoot his hand out to tap the ball back.

He messes up the timing of the play.

It just so happens that DeMar Hamlin is blitzing off the edge at that exact moment.

So he's immediately up in Lamar's business.

The play is Fubar, and Lamar, in fairness, doesn't do a great job protecting the ball.

Von Miller scoops it up, blah, blah, blah.

Next drive, field goal, so points.

Next drive, field goal, points.

Okay, then second half, touchdown, and then they are driving into Buffalo Territory when Mark Andrews fumbles, and then they score a touchdown in the final two minutes, and the two-point conversion is dropped.

Obviously, they do not punt in the game.

So, I just, and they got better as the game went along, and he shook off the two possessions.

And one of the possessions was a three-and-out by the Bills after the interception.

I'm just saying, yes.

Was he as pristine as he was in the regular season?

No.

Was Lamar at all the problem with this team?

No.

Is it going to be something people continue to talk about endlessly that he is the new

Peyton Manning or whatever, or even worse, Dan Marino?

Perhaps.

But just the discourse, let's calm it down.

I almost even want to say

that stock up, stop, no, stock neutral on Lamar.

Thoughts?

Does anyone disagree with this here?

No.

No,

but

the way that we talk about sports, if you're just in a tavern, right?

Like, you've got to win playoff games.

That's all we care about with quarterbacks.

You've got to win playoff games.

So, like, that's where I don't disagree personally in our discourse, but I think that the way that people would look at Lamar, it's like, you've got to go win two-plus playoff games, get to the Super Bowl, and be in that big moment.

And yet, that feels like slightly ridiculous at the same time.

It does.

Like if the two first half turnovers were second half turnovers, then I do think the massive narrative switch would be in effect even for us loser podcasters.

I will add, there is something

to talking about with, especially NFL quarterbacks,

just because something hasn't happened so far that it won't happen in the future.

Like you haven't done something already because once you do, then it's on the opposite end of that.

You know, like Matthew Stafford's a perfect example of this.

You know, he went to the playoffs with the Lions, and albeit the Lions are a much worse winning franchise than what Lamar Jackson walked into with the Baltimore Ravens.

23 years old, 26 years old, and 28 years old, whereas three playoff appearances.

And then what we think about Matthew Safford of now, we've always known he's a talented player.

He didn't win his first playoff game until he was 33.

You know, Lamar Jackson has won many playoff games.

He has won MVP trophies.

So it's just one of these things that, yeah,

he hasn't been to an AFC championship game yet.

He will in the future.

And like we are just getting to this point where it should be the peak of his career.

And he already has, what, I don't know, two and a half MVPs under his belt.

So like, yeah,

it is one of those things where I can't point to one thing that has to change just until it does.

And then the AFC is just so freaking loaded at this quarterback position that you're facing off against superheroes every single week once you get to this playoffs.

I mean, that's the thing, right?

It's like, it's like Joe Burrow got there early in his career, career, but if you go back and you sort of peel back the layers of that entire playoff run, there are so many things that had to happen uniquely that Joe Burrow wasn't even necessarily responsible for that got him to that game.

And so, you know, Joe Burrow is viewed differently because he's been there early in his career.

But so I think all of you guys make good points there.

I mean, it's just, you know, eventually Lamar Jackson's going to win the Super Bowl.

Like, why is that our measuring stick?

Or he won't.

Or he won't.

Or he won't.

I'm just saying.

Is it okay if he doesn't, Dan?

Is it okay if he doesn't?

It's okay.

And he'll be okay, and the world will move on.

No, but it's not okay.

Like,

it's not okay

in the discourse of Lamar Jackson if he never wins a Super Bowl.

It's not.

I agree.

Right.

But, like, Charles Barkley never won an NBA championship.

Yes,

that's something that follows him around, but he's been able to live a pretty good life, I think.

I guess I'm saying, like, the only thing is, like, this year feels like it hurt even more because it was made so clear from the beginning with Lamar, like, how much he wanted it this year.

And then how many peak Derrick Henry years are left at this point?

This felt like this was a big, big chance for them.

Disappointing, but I would not say stock down on

Mr.

Jackson.

All right, who's next?

Sestdog.

I'll go stock down on the Steelers, and it's not like a hard stock down, but it's like...

I forgot they were even in the playoffs, to be honest.

Well, they became forgettable.

I think that's the one thing that I don't like about what happened to them this year is they became forgettable.

and it was a great story that turned into a non-story and a great coach that turned into like we have questions about the coach and we've got questions about the future at the quarterback position like big the biggest questions ever like the steelers now face the same questions that I wouldn't say bad teams, but questionable teams face.

Like, you don't necessarily have a quarterback.

Like, you've got a Diva wide receiver who shows up and then vanishes.

You've got the most expensive defense in the NFL that did not appear as we needed them to appear in the biggest moment.

And you're Mike Tomlin.

I think Mike Tomlin, if you've ever been to an owner's meeting or it's like, Mike Tomlin is one of the more alpha

badass dudes around.

There's no question about it.

But what is the ceiling for the Steelers under this plan and under what they plan to do?

And I think it's stocked down because they kind of feel to me like if you were to point to a team in the playoffs that was exposed, the Steelers feel exposed to me.

They were exposed.

Like for all their, what they were trying to, you know, pretend they had no issues with, like, they were exposed entirely.

And they've got major questions going into this offseason.

A lot of money on the salary cap, like a lot of money to pay for the defense.

And none of it showed up in the right time.

So stock down.

It's not a stock up.

I agree with this because the Steelers are just in purgatory without a quarterback.

And like they are are too good to be on the opposite end of that.

And then you can ask yourself, okay, these teams that have escaped that in recent seasons with veteran acquisitions, you can say Baker Mayfield, for example, but that would have been signing Baker Mayfield after the terrible run with the Carolina Panthers, cut him, then go to the L.A.

Rams.

And that would have been pairing Baker Mayfield with Matt Canada instead of Baker Mayfield with, you know, Dave Canalis and then Liam Cohen.

And then that could have been, you know, Sam Darnold this offseason is the other example of this.

Okay, that's Sam Darnold with Kevin O'Connell, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison compared to Sam Darnold with Arthur Smith and George Pickens, and that's it behind this offensive line.

So even when you could put in the face of people commenting, well, you can just sign one of these veteran quarterbacks to me, Connor, like it just wouldn't have gotten to that point where those guys would be as successful as us using them as examples if they went to the Steelers.

And that's the strange part about their kind of plan in purgatory, right?

Is that, you know, Mike Tomlin still, and I think this is where I kind of buy into Mark's stock down in particular, because when he was looking for a, um, an offensive coordinator and Art Smith, the reason that he hired Art Smith, they were playing the NFC or they were playing the Falcons division the year before that.

And when Mike Tomlin used to show his teaching tape during the week, he would use examples from Art Smith's offense.

And he'd be like, well, that's the way I like to play.

We like to smash people.

You know, this is what we like to do.

And so when Art Smith came available, he's like, great, you could just come and do that here.

And Mike is never going to.

get outside of the parameters of what he wants from that offense.

And so I think until we truly blow this out or until Mike Tomlin, someone takes the steering wheel and is like, you know, you got to hire Nick Cayley from the Rams or, you know, Brian Fleury from the 49ers or one of these like really talented young guys.

Until that happens, you know, we're just kind of repeating the same, you know, record.

And it doesn't matter who, you know, they could get the next Geno Smith and he's going to play like Mitch Trubisky played, you know, it's just how it's going to be.

And maybe this isn't the year to make a move like this, which would be seismic for the Steelers, but reportedly the Bears reached out to the Steelers about Mike Tomlin and a potential trade.

And, you know, do they eventually have to do something seismic to get out of as I called it a week ago or a week or two ago, they're kind of parked in this cul-de-sac of elite mediocrity.

And it's like, how do you get out of it?

And I'm not saying it's Tomlin's fault, but sometimes it's time to kind of blow things up and turn the page and start anew.

And if Tomlin can get you a first-round pick, that you then could turn into a quarterback and hire someone that you feel is exciting and young for the organization, it might just be time.

It might be just time to make that change.

But that takes a lot of onions to use.

I think it's impossible to do, to be honest, Dan.

Like, I don't want to totally connect this to the conversation we just just had with Lamar Jackson, where it's Super Bowl or bust, because I actually hate when, you know, football conversations are, even if it's true, dwindled down to that, because there's such importance to fans and just entertainment perspective of teams getting to the playoffs and being competitive on a weekly basis.

Like, this is how we spend our Sundays watching these games.

But again, the conversation is much different for Lamar Jackson, where you sense, like, there is a chance that this is going to actually all align in one season or multiple seasons, whereas where the Steelers are right now, like there is just no pathway.

There are no steps for them to even get to that point right now that it has to be like a totally different version of them.

I know they're contending, he makes the playoffs, he wins a bunch of games, even when they don't score touchdowns.

Man, I just don't even know how to even get started with that organization.

Beautifully said, Josh.

Beautifully said.

I agree.

I thought Josh did it in an

agreement.

I agree, Mark.

I agree.

You agree in a secondary way.

Oh, wait, he's got to think his pen out.

Yeah, uh-oh.

All right, Connor, give us one.

All right.

This one's sort of a bigger picture.

And I think I have, I'll queue up Justin here in a second.

I actually prepared a visual aid here.

Oh, God.

Stocked down on haughty know-it-all whites who have been relying on the same two boring football truisms since 2010.

Look at that guy.

For the listeners, a photo of Connor Orr's head and face on the screen.

With multiple unicorn/slash horses behind him.

Statuesque.

Cows?

Yeah, with

that.

Yeah.

Unicorns.

And my daughter likes unicorns.

Yeah.

Okay, so we'll

nail the horse type.

Yeah.

You know, so, you know, I've been covering the NFL since 2010, right?

And what have I been saying without even thinking about it for the last 15 years?

You need to

can't make the playoffs with a rookie quarterback.

You need to pair your GM and your head coach.

You have to build a certain way.

You have to eat the crust on your bread if you want curly hair.

All these things that are just like not really meaningful when you look at this field in the playoffs, where we now have only 50% of the teams that are remaining have paired their head coach and their GM.

We have a team with a rookie quarterback who had to trade for their best defensive player in the middle of the goddamn season.

We have a team with one of the highest paid quarterbacks in the NFL that only has four games of 250-plus passing yards and are basically reliant at this point on breakaway runs from a 27-year-old running back who has played only three healthy seasons in the NFL.

We have a team that is starting their guard at left tackle and won 15 games despite not scoring more than 30 points.

Like, the truth is, let's embrace the fact that

shit happens when the tournament starts, you know, and we can't keep coming in and saying, well, now it's your second year with the rookie quarterbacks.

You have to go and do this because this is what the Seahawks did in 2010.

It doesn't matter.

Like, there's a million different ways to win a football game.

So, stock down on that Connor or clown.

Get original.

Let's go.

I think that's fair.

You know,

I think there are what you're saying, Connor, is we have to sometimes buck our own steadfast beliefs.

You know, with Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson getting benched this year, there was a lot of takes of this is why you need to sit all these rookie quarterbacks.

you know, just like Patrick Mahomes in Kansas City.

Okay, if the Washington Commanders did that, they wouldn't be in the NSA championship this year.

You know, like like this is not just a one-for-one take with every single team that applies to every single situation.

To me, it's part of what you said is we just underrate these like totally new and fresh organizations and regimes because we just have no point of contact with them.

You know, like

we all could look back at this point last year and say that the Washington Commanders were the best job that a head coach could go to.

And then they don't land Ben Johnson.

And then they're the last last people to hire dan quinn and that they have all these you know cap dollars and draft picks and then it just felt like this isn't going to work and then here we are and all these teams are now maybe five years going to try to emulate exactly what this commanders organization did during the rookie season their quarterback so we are very reactive in all this stuff

Life is a surprise, and it should surprise us.

And like, and well, even a year ago, we could look at Dan Quinn and say, seems boring, a little milquetoast, like not an exciting hire, doesn't seem like he'd invigorate a locker room.

And then we've played on our show four or five insane locker room post-game fire starter speeches where he's lit up the entire room and the entire team has lit up the country.

So we know nothing.

Like, I am willing to say I know nothing.

The idea that I, and I'm talking to my boss right now, but the idea that I have this job is absurd because what am I going to come and tell you

oh sorry

but yes i know some

let's do an end-of-year review here uh dan what

what what self-scouting can you do what what uh long set opinion have have have you done a 180 on this year no i can't end of your review right now

personally i'll tell you that

um all right

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All right.

Should we go around one more time quickly?

Yeah, I have one that's kind of like this, and it attaches to it.

This

belief that this is, you know, a passing league.

This is from the great Alec Lewis graver.

I'll send you this tweet afterwards so you can post it if you want to.

Where some of the NFL divisional round teams rank in rushing success.

You know, this is for the entire season.

Commanders, second place, Ravens, third place, Lions, fifth, Rams, sixth, Bills, seventh, equals, tenth, chiefs, eleventh.

Guess what?

This now is a rushing success league.

I understand that, like, there can be a lot of correlation and causation stuff when it comes to raw rushing numbers.

And, you know, the great Mike Grable went on during an interview and, you know, the losers and the haters on Twitter said that, how can you say when they run it 40 times that it's 155 and two?

What he was basically saying is series to series effectiveness of running the football is like how you are able to to not force your alien one-of-one quarterbacks or rookie quarterbacks into having to carry an offense every single game.

This is what the bills have turned into, right?

Again, this is the commanders.

This is what, as Connor just mentioned, what the Eagles, it's basically just buying your time until Saquon Barkley gets a 60-plus yard run.

And part of that is the coverages, right?

Now these rushing games are where you get 20-plus yard conversions, 20-plus-yard gains.

If they're going to run two high shells, guess what?

That's why you draft Jameer Gibbs in the top 15 and get Liam Bassett like Brad Holmes did.

But guess what?

Now he's one of the best running backs in the league.

It's why you pay now veteran 28-year-old plus running backs like Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry because these are now where explosive come from.

So I just love that like the league is so cyclical and we're back in this point where it's real damn run the football stuff because it's fun and the game is not figured out like we all kind of thought it was three or four years ago.

Yeah, even if it does tie together.

We get way too, and especially happens August, early September, and it's always funny then to look back at our different predictions and everything, everything that makes so much sense and then everything getting turned on its ear.

That is what keeps you kind of coming back in the end.

And it's true.

Like, look at even the NBA right now, where we feel like it's the end-all, be-all.

It's the three-point shooting revolution.

And then in four years, people are going to be just gobbling up like Shaquille O'Neal people again.

You know what I mean?

And it'll be back to like 1994 Big East basketball.

You know, everything comes around.

Football is completely different than basketball.

I got a couple quickies.

Weather games, man.

Way up.

Buffalo and Philly.

Just a reminder of like how a little bit of snow can go a long way in setting this scene.

The physical safety of special teams coaches, way down.

We did a bad beat on that.

Anybody like D'Amiko Ryans like spoke, and this isn't going to turn into a Phil Mushnick column or anything, don't worry.

But like D'Amiko Ryan spoke on this and didn't even say it was a bad thing that he, that Sam, what was it, Chris Boyd?

Pushed a special teams coach almost to the ground.

That was pretty wild.

Yeah, like that wasn't even bad.

That wasn't even inappropriate.

Mushnik's column.

But I think

I'll go with Tom Brady's scrutiny in the public discourse way up.

Did you guys know, and good job, I read about this.

I saw it everywhere.

everywhere, but then something that really jumped out to me, there was a piece written by Dan Shanoff in The Athletic.

Did you know that Tom Brady is the color guy for Lions Commanders on Saturday night?

And he does not say Ben Johnson's name once.

Yeah.

Think about that.

Yeah.

Think about that.

And this is the same Tom Brady, who is a minority owner with the Raiders, that

was apparently very high on Johnson as the potential next coach of the Raiders, where Tom Brady has a role, obviously, in making that decision.

And I think all the conversation around this is legitimate.

And I think, although I don't think that Tom Brady was bad on Saturday night, the fact that this is something that hangs over us, like we kind of lose.

We lose as football viewers because this is the guy that's doing the color where he has to be this self-conscious about what he says and and doesn't say because of his personal situation and his other side job.

Like,

I think that that is something that I wonder if this, are we all just going to get used to this, Tom Brady?

What he can and cannot say, what he has access to, what he doesn't have access to,

or if it's going to be a situation where eventually the league steps in and says this doesn't necessarily make sense and you're going to have to choose one or the other.

But I think the Ben Johnson really underlined everything that's strange about this setup.

I'm so glad you brought this up because I wanted to talk about this when we talked about Ben off the top.

Wait and see.

I would be very curious what the discourse is coming out of the Raiders' hiring process now that they haven't been able to land Ben and that they might end up going with someone like John Spytek as the GM who Tom Brady wanted and could have possibly cost them Ben Johnson in the first place, even though I heard Vegas was ready to hand Ben Johnson the bag, right?

And to give him the money that he wanted to come there.

And so all of a sudden, now that you're no longer the greatest player in NFL history and you're unscrutinizable, I guess, in that sense, you're not a great broadcaster.

And now you're sort of a fallible executive at this point, too, because you got, you know, you kind of got smoked by the bears on this one.

Yep.

I also don't enjoy a man that gets hotter.

Like we're all, we're in our 40s and

we're up there in age.

And it's like, well, you're not a man that's getting smart.

Let's let's not.

Well, no, I'm even older, but it's like, but I don't enjoy a man that's getting hotter by, you know, you know, ticks and tacks year to year.

Don't enjoy that.

Filler, all this type of stuff.

Yeah, I mean, the weird part of that entire equation was I believe he was also interviewing Aaron Glenn, if I'm not mistaken, or he was a part of this too.

And so you basically cannot criticize or say anything negative about either side of the lion's situation when you're on the call because you might want to hire these guys next week.

Like that just puts you in this uncomfortable position.

I also wonder if some of the Tom Brady scrutiny is because we all know that, like, Greg Olson is right behind him.

Like, if Greg Olson didn't exist, would we all be this negative?

Yes, yep.

Yes, very well said, Josh.

Incredibly well said.

Well,

I think that is a huge factor in this.

Mark, you brown-nosing son of a pet.

Well, it's for you.

You can get used to this.

It's good for you.

It's good for you.

Hayden doesn't treat me like this at all.

We'll discuss it with Hayden.

All right.

Who else?

Connor.

All right.

I have a stock up on one of the most underrated figures, I feel like, in football over the last 25 years, a guy who's not gotten his appreciation for his talents, his play calling ability, or the success that he did have while being an NFL head coach.

But I think a lot of that's going to change, and I'm going to use it to make a little bit of a larger point.

Stock up on Chip Kelly, the former Eagles head coach.

Wow.

Who dialed up a banger of a game plan against my Fighting Irish on Monday night?

But I want to say that to say this.

A lot of conversations I've had over the last couple of days, we've had a condensed coach firing cycle this year.

It's been a little bit smaller than normal, which means we're going to have a bigger one next year.

And we're going to have the same problem where we don't have a ton of great candidates, which means I think we are breaking back into the college game.

And I would take a look at guys like Ryan Day, Marcus Freeman, Steve Sarkeesian, Matt Campbell, and Deion Sanders.

I think all of them will generate NFL interest next year if there's a lot of openings.

And, you know, I think that watching guys like Kelly, you know, I think he's a guy that could be in demand for NFL coordinator positions again.

I know that's what he wants to do.

And I think he could do it.

So I think that window between college and the NFL is getting ever so slim and the taste of Urban Meyer and Matt Rule is out of everyone's mouth.

I think we're going to see it get fired back up again.

What an interesting transition over these last few years for Chip Kelly, who I believe was the head coach at UCLA, then basically basically left that position to go be the offensive coordinator at Ohio State.

Probably felt like I would get more positive buzz just calling plays versus, you know, running a program, which I don't think that that would be something we would talk about five to 10 years ago.

Everyone would just want to be the head coach.

And then now, yeah, like you're saying, I don't know if it's Tampa Bay perhaps who could be looking for a new coordinator, or maybe Chip Kelly goes there, but he, he will,

I don't know.

It was such an rewinding back, I don't know, what, 10, 12 years ago to when Chip Kelly was at its peak and he was telling LaShawn McCoy to eat a certain smoothie.

And hey, the big thing here was we're going to run a bunch of plays and go no huddle.

And like, yeah, now that's just ingrained in the NFL.

Where is the edge with Chip Kelly?

But it certainly is something that he almost certainly will find it.

And I'm excited to see what that is.

Could Chip Kelly happen this offseason, though?

Damn it.

Could it happen as soon as this offseason?

Because I think it's like,

because Connor, I remember back in the day, like you were like, the Chip Kelly think piece was a Connor Orr type of project.

Are we there again?

Like, are we there again already?

I think so.

And if you look at it, if when he was fired from the Eagles, and I know I'm going to sound like a psychopath who's never going to let this go, but when he was fired from the Eagles halfway through that last season, he was creating an offense that he had coined the power spread.

And it was getting these big physical backs and getting these big people to, you know, you're going to spread everybody out.

You're going to lighten your boxes, and then you're going to have guys like, I think it was like Ryan Matthews and DeMarco Murray back then.

But the idea was there.

This is what's happening now, right?

We're doing what the Ravens are doing, right?

We're spreading everybody out, but then we have Patrick Gercard and Mark Andrews and Derrick Henry, and we're going to shove it down your throat.

And that's what he was trying to do back then.

I mean, that's why he wanted to draft Marcus Mariota.

And they tried to get up to number one that year, which is like a very strange time warp of a thing.

But I think that a lot of these guys, it's not just Chip Kelly.

I mean, that's why I lumped all these college coaches in.

I think that the eagerness and the anticipation is there again.

And I think an NFL team's willing to get their heart broken by a college coach again.

According to Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times, the Buccaneers are bracing for current offensive coordinator Liam Cohn to be offered the Jaguars head coaching job in the coming days, perhaps as soon as Wednesday.

So yes, there's one post right there that could become available.

Mark, finish this out, buddy.

I would go, I was going to go arrow down on the NFC North, which I thought was going to revolutionize the NFL this offseason or this postseason, and they did not do that.

But arrow up on the Rams.

I know they lost, but I think they've told a story about developing, growing players, changing their entire defense over the course of two seasons.

Like, you just have to believe in what they can accomplish because of Sean McVay, because of the general manager, because of the way that they

grow a team.

Like, there's just something about the Rams to me that feel like they're going to be back.

And you can lose the playoff game, and I can feel kind of fatalistic about certain teams that do, like, check you later, but not with the Rams.

The Rams, to me, are different.

And this was like, they keep creating surprise seasons.

Like, we didn't expect this when they start one and four.

We didn't expect last year.

And here they are again.

And I don't, I guess the biggest question is Matthew Stafford, whether he'll be back, whether what happens with him.

But other than that, this is a team that just keeps wanting to survive and exist.

Yeah, they seem to be in a very healthy place overall organizationally.

Their ability to pivot the way they did from FM draft picks to where they are now.

You saw what happened with Jared Verse and Friends just dominating that game

against the Eagles and almost stealing that game.

If Jalen Hurts fumbles that ball in the end zone, it could be a totally different conversation we're having.

Things will continue to change.

Cooper Cupp said in his end of season availability: I will be playing football next year.

That much I know.

Where he'll be playing, that's very fair to ask.

He kind of was down by the end of the season in terms of production at a pretty stark level.

Matthew Stafford, it's up in the air.

I would think he's coming back.

So

there is a lot, Josh, to digest in terms of where they go from here to get to next year.

But in general,

there are a few teams that I trust more in terms of the operation to continue on an upward trajectory.

I think those draft picks rejuvenated Sean McVay.

It is that defensive line.

It's the juice that they have up front that they've built over the last two seasons.

Like if you told me I felt better about maybe the direction of this franchise without Jalen Ramsey and without Aaron Donald, I kind of do.

And like going back to when the Rams and the Vikings were going to face off in the playoffs a couple weeks ago, Think back to where they were, you know, midseason just before the trade deadline and that Thursday night football game.

That was like a crossroads moment for this Rams franchise.

Like they might have traded Cooper Cup.

You know, they might have kind of shut the whole thing down with Matthew Stafford and Company if they lost that contest.

They won.

And then who would have thought that they would have made it into the second round of the playoffs?

So, you know, Sean, it went through this whole cycle a couple years ago of flirting with television and getting a new contract and all this type of stuff.

But then, you know, he basically fires half of his coaching staff and brings in people he can trust and with some responsibility.

So it's not all on his shoulders.

And it just feels like to me that this is the second wave, the second version of the Rams, even in the same Matthew Stafford era.

And hopefully they can still, you know, win with this window to win that they have in this moment.

Anything on that, Connor?

You seem very pleased with the overall discourse.

Nothing to add.

Yeah, it's like one of those, that was sort of one of those like teacher in college moves to see if you're paying attention.

And

I had this class at, uh, I, I, I know what we're talking about.

He doesn't get a mark.

He doesn't get a mark.

Shoot, Mark has a slash throw.

Shit.

Are marks good or bad?

Um, but, uh,

the, uh, I took a class once with a guy who was like the chief policy advisor to like Lyndon B.

Johnson.

And I sat in the front row because I was really excited.

It's a big opportunity.

And I came home late from the newspaper and I just fell the f asleep.

And I was like, mouth open, drooling.

And this guy's talking about being in a helicopter with the Pope and like like diving into like the Vatican and like all this amazing shit.

And I, I fell asleep and I woke up and the entire class is silent.

There's like probably 100 people in an auditorium and he's right in my face and he goes,

can I move on?

And I was like, oh,

shit.

But yeah, no, the Rams are great.

So

Connor, be honest.

How often do you think about that moment?

Because we all recall like these certain things that pop up in our head of maybe peak embarrassment.

Is it a once a week thing where you feel how you felt in that moment.

You're talking to Josh, by the way, so be careful here.

At the time, I fancied myself I was like a dual journalism poly psi, and I was like, you know, I'm going to really kind of change the world with the way I cover the White House, which kind of missed that one a little bit to the right.

But I was like, I'm going to impress this guy.

You know, I'm going to go, we're going to go tit a tat.

We're going to talk about important things in the world.

And then I just fell asleep.

So,

you know, I think about it a lot.

Yeah.

Bad beat.

Once a week?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For sure.

I get it.

All right.

There you go.

Stock up, stock down.

NFL playoffs.

Mr.

Norris, where can people get your content if they're not already ingesting it?

On the YouTubes this week.

We've got, you know, top 36 rankings for fantasy football already looking ahead, Dan, your favorite thing in the world in 2025.

Oh, yeah.

And then next week, while I'm in the great country of England, going to support my Aston Villa football club, we will be posting our top 10 free agents at every single position.

So just go and search Josh and Hayden on YouTube.

You'll find our channel and you'll find those videos there too.

Beautiful.

I would imagine this is something we didn't get to today, and I feel bad because Justin did incredible research.

But the wide receiver

class, veteran wide receiver

free agency class, could be a lot of fun this offseason.

It is.

I mean, it's a bunch of veteran names.

I mean, T.

Higgins, we won't even put in there because hopefully he doesn't make it.

But, you know, you have the Chris Godwins, the Amari Coopers, the Stefan Diggs, the Keen Allens, the DeAndre Hopkins.

Probably one of those guys has something left.

You just have to pick the right one of the five to determine who has some juice left.

Right.

You got potentially Devontae Adams.

Maybe Debo Samuel shows up on the market and won for it.

Maybe Westberg Akina, you know, one of the best deep threats in the league.

You know that Adam Thielen has another 1,203-yard season in him.

Okay.

Exciting.

What's so funny?

What did I miss?

I'm just trying to get Graver in on this conversation with an NWI mention, and even I can't do that 40 minutes into the show.

Even that doesn't pull Graver into this

conversation, director content on the show.

I mean, touchdown maker, right?

He was a fifth and main affiliate touchdowns.

What, what?

This is Justin on the three and a half touchdowns.

I like crossed to Graver's name on this.

Did you say, Did you drop an am I right in there, there, Justin?

This is not

a crossed out favor.

We had a random Zoom request with HR after this.

We do that once before.

We do that first time.

All right.

Josh, thank you so much, buddy.

You've said it all.

You're the man.

Thank you to everybody

for joining us today.

We'll be back on Thursday with our championship weekend preview with Jordan and Mike.

And of course, any head coaching or news of any kind in the NFL that happens between now and then.

Thank you to everyone.

Until next time, do what you must.

Heed the call.

Thanks, Josh.

You were amazing.

Amazing.

Got you, Mark.

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