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The Heat the Call podcast

has got your score, Agami, right here.

Oh!

It's funny because I wrote that, I guess, and sent it to Zumwalt or Justin did, and then instinctually I just said, oh, when Jason said, oh, it was like my past and present meeting at the same time.

Welcome to Heat the Call, a tremendous football program.

I'm Dan Hansis with Mark Sessler, and if it is

the midweek show that means Connor or is with us too hey con man

what's up boys long time no see how's everybody doing

great

it's the it's always

it may be my favorite show of the week listen we I love all our shows but when we get to just hang out and and shoot the shit with Connor and

It just feels good, Mark.

It feels like, you know, one of those free agent signings that,

keeps Joe Shane employed.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, there's an ease to these shows with Connor that is inviting to me.

I think it's also important to note that, Dan, you specialize in being on the beat of things in a singular way.

And the scorigami thing, which I noticed on Twitter, and it's like I'm not spending a lot of time on there, but people were trying to

battle back your logic that it wasn't special to create something like a scorigami, but they didn't agree with you.

But like, you're not, you're having none of it.

And I like the way that you, um, that you tangle with the public.

You just simply dismiss them entirely.

Someone

seem seemingly actually angry replied on Twitter, something like, Dan, you just hate fun things.

Skorigami.

That's under your category of fun things.

Again, find a girlfriend,

boyfriend, whatever you want to find.

It doesn't matter.

We like it all.

It doesn't matter.

We like everything.

All right.

Welcome to the midweek show.

As I said, a lot to get to.

We have a Thursday night game to preview AFC North tilt.

We have

a segment that will dig into

the current status of the NFL and a look ahead.

And

we take it from a business angle, which I think is

dangerous because I don't see many great business minds on this program right now.

In fact, we're going to steal elements from a popular, I believe, CNBC financial program that I've never seen before and have purposely not watched ahead of this show, but just going to guess how this certain program goes that has also a show famous for its sound drops.

I don't know if legally we could say the name, but I think people maybe can understand what we're talking about.

I just want to be safe, Mark.

It's a litigious world out there.

My dad watches this show, and so I have seen

probably about 18 minutes of it in my life.

I think we're going to be able to capture the spirit, but yeah, maybe we shouldn't.

Connor, maybe we shouldn't say the name.

I don't know.

We don't want to get into trouble here.

Two years ago, I had like stock options for the first time, and I was like, I don't want these.

And what do I do with them?

And so I thought there's that episode of The Office where Michael Scott just like declares bankruptcy.

And I was like, is that how I sell a stock?

Like, I just say it out loud, like I don't want it anymore.

And I called like, I called like the person in charge of it and he was just like, declare

bankruptcy!

I called the person whose job it was and he was like, it's a really bad idea, like for so many reasons to sell all of this.

And he's like, it could have like, it has like far-reaching consequences.

And I was like, yeah, I just don't want it.

And he's like, he's like, okay.

And I was, you know, know, just this idea of like, I still don't understand how it happened or, or, or the process behind it, but I'm, I'm definitely ready to dig in on this.

It's like one of those conversations.

And Mark and I kind of run our own small business now, which is outrageous.

But

do we?

I mean, we like literally, it's like we don't even

very loosely defined as running the small business.

Connor, but you having that conversation with a financial consultant or whatever, I can imagine it being one of those things where the consultant like, okay, all right, Connor, it was good talking to you.

Yeah, let's stay in touch.

And then he does that thing where he kind of looks at his phone after the call ends before putting it down.

He just mails me like a bag of dog food and he's like, Here's your profits.

Like, you know, he just didn't do anything with the actual request.

Yeah.

But before we get into that, and I did actually get just hear from my lawyer, the program's called Mad Money.

So that, well, and if we have to bleep that in post, we will, Justin.

But before we get to any of that,

a little developing news

developing news: the Jets suck.

My favorite football team has made another huge decision:

parting ways with general manager Joe Douglas, who is

sent

to the history books of

the Jets with a 30 and 64 record during a tenure that lasted nearly the entirety of a six-year contract.

This is a statement from team owner Woody Johnson, who I guess is not yet safely under the warm blanket of the Trump Empire.

Here's Woody.

I want to thank Joe for his commitment to the Jets over the last six years and wish him and his family the best moving forward.

So the Jets, of course, fell to 3-8 after that one-point loss to the Colts.

And I think Connor, Joe Douglas' tenure will be remembered as a failure, obviously, first and foremost, but also remembered as kind of a unique type of failure, a failure where the Jets practiced a lot of patience and they kept the course and believed in the structure of the front office and the man that led it.

And in many times in the league, like that does pay off, having the ability to see a plan through.

But this is the Jets.

And for the Jets, it didn't work out.

So they ended up investing six years of the team history and got virtually nothing out of it, but a lot of losses, no playoff appearances.

And now they are, you know, starting from scratch essentially with no head coach, no general manager, and an owner that might be heading out of the country soon to serve for the next president.

I think that it's okay to say that you fired the general manager after you went 30 and 64.

There's nothing wrong with that on its face.

I think what's weird is escorting the head coach out via security five weeks into the season when you're a game out of first place, and then firing the general manager with six weeks left on his contract.

And I think that those are moves that, you know, unless Woody, and I don't think, I don't put this beyond the realm of possibility.

If he has a plan, if he has people that he knows are going to take this job and to do it in a way that he wants it, great.

But you keep digging yourself into a hole at this point.

Someone will take the job.

But like,

this has gotten to the point where working for this franchise has become such a black hole on your resume that like

very many qualified people are just going to steer clear of it.

And you're not going to go to a place where you know you're going to get embarrassed.

Like, I think Joe Douglas today was probably like a little embarrassed.

That's an embarrassing thing to do to someone.

Yeah, I thought he was,

he's been embarrassed in recent weeks when, you know, his coach was ripped away.

He clearly had no power.

We saw the change in his demeanor, in his visage in that interview about a week ago.

And he is the rare GM.

I don't have a problem with parting ways.

It's a specific Jets element to it that makes it all just more troubling.

But you are the rare GM that survived completely whiffing on a top five quarterback pick on the draft.

You completely whiffed on that.

Then you had a chance to go and bring in a Hall of Fame level quarterback, and you whiffed on that too.

And so, I mean, I don't know what else you need a GM to do to prove that we need to find someone else.

It's just that I don't really trust the Jets to go do that.

And I'd be surprised if Woody Johnson, of all people, who's probably, you know, downing Martinez while on the phone with Trump right now and about to be shipped to Ireland, has a plan.

Like, I don't think he's got some ace up his sleeve here.

That would be my guess, just based on the history.

Just to be clear, Ireland has no affiliation with the United Kingdom, which is the office I believe he would serve, Mark.

Just we have we have I thought it was Ireland, so well, I wasn't tracking that as hell.

I think you're thinking of uh Rooney with Pittsburgh

connected there, yeah.

Um, anyway, so another pure figure: the Jets, the Jets

were actually the subject of an Albert Breer, your colleague Connor Orr,

report on Thursday Night Football on Halloween night.

And he had reported at that time that the Jets structure behind the scenes features too many non-football people that are involved with decision-making and an owner in Woody Johnson who is far too attuned to what's being said on the internet and making decisions that are

thought to be not made from an analytical or a clinical behind-the-scenes way, but just rash decisions, like firing your head coach without consulting the GM right after you lose the London game, like trading for Devontae Adams when it was pretty much clear the season was already taking on so much water that you're going to want to have that mid-round pick when you kind of reboot a year from now.

And that is going to make the Jets job look less appetizing.

Now, I'll just say the flip side on this is that I still think, and part of what made made the Joe Douglas era, which did have to come to an end, it just didn't work.

And it is what it is, but he mixed a lot of big hits with some sickening misses.

You know, I don't, you know, the Rodgers thing for me still, I understood why they did it.

In a vacuum, for me, it still made sense.

It didn't work out.

The Zach Wilson move, which was Joe Douglas's move all the way, obviously a huge, a huge miss.

And the fact that it took them his entire tenure to build even a halfway decent offensive line, that killed the Jets over this long stretch of futility.

But he also had an excellent, still excellent, and I know I've been down on Sauce this year, but an excellent 2022 draft class that brought in Sauce Garner, Garrett Wilson, Jermaine Johnson, Brees Hall.

He had some good finds on the open market.

Guys that were off the radar like Quincy Williams, who's still there.

Obviously, Quinnen Williams is still there.

So I'm just saying the other flip side of this and the Jets who are about to lose anywhere between 11 to 13 games are going to have a very high draft pick.

There's still a core here.

There's going to be a premium draft pick, and they're obviously going to be in the market for a quarterback.

So those are reasons why that it would be a good job.

And also, there's only 32 of these jobs.

And so I'm just spinning positive a little bit and telling the other side of the story, but I also understand why people say the other way, which is like, why would you go near a toxic organization and an owner that is very temperamental and doesn't always listen to his top lieutenants?

So there's two sides of it.

So my only pushback there would be, I think that

the way that he got involved in the team in this particular scenario was an outlier.

And even among like all these other different stories and all these different examples, like this was kind of to an extreme, at least when it comes to like being a detriment to the day-to-day operations of a football team.

We're not talking about like Dan Snyder here, right?

But what we are talking about is somebody who really, I think, impacted the work environment in a heavily negative way.

All these guys talk, and I do think it could end up having some sort of a tangible impact on the process.

Well, and shouldn't we know pretty soon, like in terms of if you really have your act together, one of the reasons that you remove the coach and the GM, you know,

by November 19th is you begin the process now, and we should hear names and whispers and ideas.

And like, I guess my trust in the organization is like, are we anywhere tangible with a big name that matters a month from now?

Because

the next head coach and GM has a lot of big decisions to make, and it starts with Aaron Rodgers.

And I'll ask Jordan about this because she's an expert in these matters:

what it means behind the scenes when, obviously, when you take out the GM and the entire structure of your scouting, like, how did it

help them at all in terms of getting that process on the right track in an expedited manner ahead of a hugely important draft class coming in for the team?

But we'll stick a pin in in that.

But Joe Douglas is out, and the Jets are, in so many ways, just totally up in the air as an organization.

You know, honestly, even as a Jets fan that is

eternally optimistic and some pessimism has crept in in the post-Aaron Rodgers Achilles incident, I never thought it could have gone this bad.

You always give this organization credit for shocking you with how deep things could go.

The fact that we're talking about the season that we entered and now we're talking about it before Thanksgiving, the head coach is gone six weeks ago and now the GM is fired before Thanksgiving.

It's a massive, massive whiff of a season for the Jets and now they start over yet again.

All right, let's head to break and then we will put on our business caps.

Scary thought.

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All right, we are back.

Yes, some of the greatest minds in business.

None of your business, don't ask about how I handle my numbers.

This sounds like a song that might be the theme of Mad Money.

Similar to it, perhaps.

But we're not sure if we could use the term mad money.

So then I was thinking maybe we call this segment Angry Money.

But then I was thinking about, well, then, you know...

Zenfl Network and Good Morning Football are going to have an issue with using Angry in the title.

They certainly seem to be a litigious bunch.

Although God knows we've given that program plenty of ideas over the years.

It's true.

So, how about

Furious Cash?

Is that anybody throw out some ideas?

You want to keep the mad money alliteration crazy cash.

Because

is mad in this usage like mad, like I'm upset and angry or is it mad like oh he's gone mad?

He's he's crazy.

That's a great question.

Control.

It's a great question.

This feels like something we could have workshop before we were talking into microphones, and yet here we are just trying to figure out.

So working title,

Furious Money right now, and we're going to throw out

some things that we're buying and selling on at this point in the season.

I'll get things going

That guitar is really in a groove there.

Yeah.

Kind of sad to hear it go, but we must.

We must move on.

Hey-oh.

All right.

So

I'm feeling

a little bit

bullish here.

And this is a scary buy.

Oh, my God.

This is a scary buy.

I'm going to say it right now, but I'm hopping on this train before others do it.

Mark, you're an older guy and have a vague understanding of baseball history.

All aboard!

Justin has gone into a new corner of the universe.

Every time we give you just a little bit of power,

you just go mad with it.

Yeah, that's the usage of mad.

You hit like seven different clear tropes things there with the

bullish training.

Is it a rule that you have to

hit the red button or whatever he does every time he uses one of those terms, or are you

doing that?

Is that like, what's the where's the breakdown?

No, he's creating.

I think we know that.

Yeah, I watched about three and a half minutes of this program before we started today, and that's the full extent that I've ever seen in my life.

But it did seem like every time he mentioned one of these types of words, he hit the drop for it.

So, Mark, do you remember, thank you, Justin.

Do you remember a slugging outfielder named Andre Dawson?

Well, yeah, I do.

Yep.

Great.

Andre Dawson in 1987 was playing for the Chicago Cubs, a team that was not a contender that season.

And yet, Andre Dawson had such a tremendous year.

He led the league with 49 home runs, 137 RBIs.

This is before the steroids era of the NF Major League Baseball.

So these were major numbers.

And despite the fact that the Chicago Cubs finished in last place that season, going 76 and 86, the voters of the most valuable player award

went with Andre Dawson, who beat out Ozzie Smith and Jack Clark of the St.

Louis Cardinals to take home the trophy.

He still is, to this day,

the

last player from a last-place team to win the MVP.

In fact, no previous MVP winner had ever played for a team that finished lower than fifth since the baseball writers began their selection process in 1931.

Why do I bring that up?

I think you might be able to figure it out.

I was looking at Joe Burrow,

his stats, the other day.

And

after another heartbreaking defeat this time against the Chargers,

a game in which Burrow dragged his team

back into the affair with three touchdowns in the second half and then got the team back into scoring range twice only for his kicker to botch it with two misses.

Not quite McFearless after all.

So, Joe Scheisty is feeling it right now.

He is, you know, I'm going to pull up for you.

This is what I'm going to pull up.

Joe Burrow

stats.

All right, here we go.

This is what Joe Burrow is on pace to do right now:

percent, 67.2 percentage, completion percentage, 4,700 yards, 42 touchdowns, six interceptions, a 106.9 passer rating.

Um, and uh, I think he could win an MVP this year.

I'm buying on Burrow making history and being the first player.

Um, uh, probably, I would have to check the NFL history of this, but uh, for a team that's not going to make the playoffs, and right now the Bengals, I don't think they're a last-placed team, but they're close to it with all these heartbreaking defeats.

Burrow for MVP, I'm buying.

Anybody have any

urge of joining me on that crusade?

I would buy it based on the fact that he's worthy of it.

What I don't buy, and we were never allowed to be part of the,

we were never one of the voters for these awards.

But

do you buy that the voting public, the national journalists and beat reporters that do have a vote here, would vote for a quarterback on a team that might have five or six wins at the end of the season.

That's my concern.

It's not that he is not worthy.

I'm with you.

But I see the narrative about like

I think it would be like Lamar Jackson in his own division probably has a much better shot

on the playoff team.

Obviously, like Lamar didn't play well this past week.

He would have to come down or suffer an injury.

Same thing for Josh Allen.

I think these are the two biggest contenders.

And if those guys both fall off or one or both get injured and they come out of the contention for MVP, that would open up the lane for another QB.

It's typically a QB award or maybe even Saquon Barkley or Derrick Henry, other guys, but running backs don't typically win this award.

Burrow would then slide in.

I mean, he leads the league in yards, touchdowns, QBR, and I just think he's the best quarterback in the league.

And it's why, like, I still, even though we're done with the fork exercise, I still wouldn't fork the Bengals because this guy is having a historically great year, and it's such a strange season.

I just want to play a clip before I hear your thoughts, Connor.

Burrow, after the game,

he is living it because he cannot figure it.

It's like when

your fantasy team scores 160 points every week, but you keep facing the team that has the high point total of the week.

You could tell he's mystified that he could be playing the position at this high level in a league that is defined by quarterback play, and yet his team sucks.

Here's Burrow.

Nothing.

How do you explain the way this season has gone?

Where it feels like we've been in the spot after so many games, they've all felt one play away, like you've made so many winning plays.

Are you able to explain it?

How do you explain it?

Just got to make the plays.

Just got to make the plays.

And we haven't down the stretch, and

we're not

a good enough team to,

you know, our margin of error is slim, so we got to make those plays.

I got to make those plays.

We all got to make those plays.

And Connor, I saw some criticism of Burrow for the way he answered those questions

by saying there's nothing he would say to Evan McPherson after those misses.

And, you know, we got to make plays very clearly.

Like he's saying, you know, other people have to do better, get on my level.

But I'm cool with the honesty because that's exactly the case.

You know, it's very frustrating, I would imagine, for him right now.

Yeah, which is why I'm siding with you.

So I'm going to try to walk the tightrope here and use the correct lingo.

I'm increasing my position in Burrow based on your take, okay?

And why I'm doing that is because

I do think that there's a narrative out there on Lamar, as you correctly pointed out, and they still have some critical division matchups left.

I think that there could be a little bit of a tank headed in there.

What is that, a bear?

A bear?

A bear market?

It could be a bear market for Lamar.

And the reason that the only reason, and I hate to verbalize this, and the only reason I'm saying this is because I am increasing my position in Burrow.

God forbid there is a Josh Allen injury of any kind, which I think would be the only thing in my mind that stops him from winning this award.

Yeah, I think he might be the betting favorite now

after an incredible week 11, paired with Lamar having a rough week 11.

But Burrow, MVP, that's my pick.

Mark, you're next.

I am buying something as well.

I'm in a buying mood.

And, you know, back in the old days,

you know, you went west to make your fortune.

before the Industrial Revolution roped our asses into a five-day workweek.

What was the guy that created the five-day workweek, like one of my least favorite people?

But you hopped on a wagon back then.

You caught smallpox for a month.

You sought gold.

Nothing has changed.

Justin, I have no idea what is happening with you, by the way.

It has become untenable.

Justin,

let's let him make his statement of intent here on his buy before we bombard him.

You know, Mark struggles in terms of concentration, and I understand you're playing into that a little bit, but you're literally, he's heading toward the edge of madness.

And I'm not talking about mad money.

Yeah, he's going to hop on the wagon so I hit all aboard.

I don't know.

What do you want from me?

No, it makes complete sense, Justin, from a logical angle.

But I talked about you go west back in the old days, but nothing has changed when you understand how money ebbs and flows.

Okay, that's why we're here to help you with your money, with your investments.

And I am hopping

on an absolute steal, okay?

Because you've got to, when you want to make an investment, it's not like, oh, we all see it.

You've got to see it before anyone else sees it.

You got to get in early.

And I have been beating this drum all season long, and it's starting to become,

it's coming into fruition.

I'm buying the Cardinals from the desert, from the West, as a team

that pulls off an absolute ceiling zero shocker in the playoffs.

Okay, I am buying the Cardinals as a team that goes into the playoffs and becomes not only just a little cute wildcard victory over some like Carolina Panthers team of old that had no quarterback, they go and drop a hammer and they find their way into the final four in the NFL.

And you get on this deal now because the average consumer isn't seeing what our analysts, our group of money matter experts are seeing.

Okay, these are people who didn't understand that gold existed in those hills back in the days.

They don't know what IBM stands for, international

business machines.

The Cardinals are a fringe today

on some level, but they are going to be something very new.

They are built to throw punches in wintertime.

Jonathan Gannon is the coach nobody's talking about.

Drew Petzing is a minor genius.

They win two playoff games and nobody knows what to do, and they do it with raw brutality.

And you get rich, my friends.

This is the equivalent of a devastating tech stock from like deep Sweden.

Go impress your friends and your lovers.

Get on board today.

And two weeks from now, they're going to say, you understood how to make money, how to manage your money, money,

how to manage your finances.

This is how you win.

Now, I'm just now going to talk history of the show.

I think it's very, very fair to point out

two things.

One thing, what Jason Zumwalt said over the summer about the Cardinals, which is do not, do not talk about the Cardinals.

Don't even think about the Cardinals.

Let the Cardinals do what they do in secrecy.

And so you're breaking that rule of Jason Zummalt, who's bigger than you, Mark.

So he might be searching you out after that.

He's going to travel

Oregon's trail style across country to find you for putting the Cardinals on the radar in such a way.

And then there's the not-so

pleasant history of any team you've done this with historically seems to always go immediately in the tank.

So I want to increase my position on the Cardinals, but I'm worried about some, and I know the finance people out here don't believe in this, but the voodoo magic of the Sessler stamp of approval cratering the Cardinal season immediately.

Yeah, but damn it.

So I got to stay away from this right now.

Why would I be involved with our version of mad money if things that I touch go south?

Like that wouldn't, they wouldn't want me on that.

Because I like everything you're saying, Mark.

I agree.

And I have another one that's coming up, so I don't want to say much more that ties into your bullishness on this.

But there is a troubling history, that's all.

What do you think, Connor?

They still have two games against Seattle that I would love to, so one coming up, I would like to see them play Seattle first.

And I understand that waiting to see them play the Seahawks then makes the stock jump and obviously becomes less valuable.

So I understand that the time is now to buy in.

I made a prediction back in June

that the Cardinals would have a six-plus game winning streak over the late fall, winter months.

And so I've always had

back in June.

Ooh, Mark, he's got you by a few months.

No, I think it was like mind.

And Goldens my feel.

At this point,

I'm happy with my position in Cardinals.

However, I would not hesitate to increase if they let's say they go out and they smash a Mike McDonald defense and they still have the Seahawks again to play.

I would not hesitate for a moment to bang that drum again.

Real dead cat bounce.

Oh, very nice.

I don't know what

that means, but I love it.

Yeah.

I feel like I've heard it before.

Yes.

Maybe a bear hug is in order.

I don't know.

Does that make sense?

I don't know.

Let's see.

At Seattle, coming off their buy.

And by the way, I just went to pull up their schedule.

And on ESBN.com, there's an article.

You know, classic bye week.

The beat writer has got to just knock something out.

I need some ranch, Colin.

Kyler Murray tests New York City pizza during bye week.

Are you f ⁇ ing kidding me?

You're in New York City, the pizza capital of the world.

We do not dip our pizza in ranch

in New York.

That is not something we do.

And the Californians out here, they pile all this shit on top of the pizza until you don't even know what it tastes like anymore.

In New York, if you're at the right shop, or maybe you're like Michael Scott and you're at a Sabarro in Times Square, then yeah, go ahead and get the little side ranch.

But we do not need to be dressing up the pizza, Connor.

We don't,

that's, that actually further makes me

want to put the Cardinals in a bear hug.

Yeah, I think I got that.

I'm fine with everything that you just said, but New Jersey is the pizza capital of the world.

Okay.

Okay.

Now that's a good discussion.

Isn't it, if you think about it, like New Jersey and New York, the idea that like a state, like a fake state line that we created on a map really separates the two like pizza industries from each other is absurd.

It's all the same place.

It's mostly the same people.

I mean,

how do you know that?

It's completely different people.

It's not like there's like a conglomerate of Italians running around just spawning off like tentacle businesses.

check what New Jersey and New York I mean like I like I guess

you're joining the mafia that's what the mafia is Connor I think what you just explained

but they have different pizza places that's the point I love I love me some New Jersey pizza as well and Mark Connecticut pizza also New Haven well no but

that's my whole thing with the tri-state area having grown up in Connecticut like a like everyone just assumes that you like lived on the up like the upper story of like Martha Stewart's house not true and like there are a lot of towns like New Haven's got incredible pizza and New Haven is not that different than most parts of urban New Jersey and large parts of New York again like these are cree we created these lines on states someone little drew it and like that's then suddenly it's a completely different like place no it's not what a take taking down the the state line well I think

wouldn't you say Connecticut of the tri-the so-called tri-state area they're like they're treated like you don't really belong with the two other ones and I get the take but like I get the take, but like,

Connecticut people don't,

because half of it identifies as New England.

I mean, so it's just kind of a weird state a little bit.

That's all.

No, nothing, no shot against you or have you ever seen upstate New York?

It's like, it's like you're, I mean, it's hours beyond Connecticut, and it's still going on.

A New Yorker, what they think about upstate New York, they don't see that as the same place either.

It's a whole, it's a whole thing.

The overseas listeners are like, what are they talking about?

Yeah, the Cardinals schedule is very interesting coming up, and we're going to get a real good look.

They got the Bears at their lowest, and they got the Jets in a tailspin.

Now they get their buy, dipping their pizza in ranch, and then they go to Seattle, to Minnesota, home Seattle.

Okay, let's see.

Mark, is it going to be the kiss of death, or is it going to be you looking like a genius with your angry moments?

Bye bye, bye.

Furious.

Connor, you're up.

Okay,

so I want to,

much like

during the housing crisis, you know, there was the guys who were reading the mortgages and they were seeing things before they happen,

understanding all the tranches and

the B mortgages and everything, people not being able to make these housing payments.

This is what I've done.

I've done a little document diving, and I want to just kind of key you guys in on a critical little bit of NFL contract minutia.

In 2027,

after the season is over, the league's contract with Nike runs out as the official uniform sponsor.

And given that we are seeming to be pivoting towards a heavily like 50 to 70 white male-dominated society, I am wildly increasing my position in Tommy Bahama and J.

Crew and Tommy Hillfiger.

I am holding, I am, I am, as the potential next uniform sponsors of the NFL.

Bye, bye, bye.

Would the uniforms take on the look of a deeply unhip dad in Tommy Bahama?

Like an overly baggy shirt with a button down and then dopey shorts.

They would all, like, it would be

like the uniforms would just be mock quarter zips, you know, and then you would be able to, you'd have like a little, like a little pull string.

I don't know either, Mark.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I love the idea.

I could see a bunch of coaches getting behind that, but would you have a slight revolt if the average roster of players are being asked to wear Tommy Bahama clothing as an outfit?

Right, there's a little of a disconnect between the target audience of that clothing line and the breakdown of NFL players in modern America.

I'm not sure young people are going to get anything they want out of the next couple of years.

So I think we're all going to kind of be stuck with what our parents' generation likes.

And so that's the impetus behind my idea of taking a long position in those three clothing.

Very wise,

interesting look ahead from Connor Orr to a dystopian

sartorial future of the National Football League.

All right, I will

throw another one out there.

And this does tie into yours, Mark.

It actually ties in

a way that I'm in agreement with you.

Okay.

I'm selling on

kind of the NFC, like as

a conference that matters right now when we're talking about who's going to be holding up the Lombardi.

Now, I'm accepting the Detroit Lions from that conversation because I think Detroit, and that's part of the issue, is that I look at the NFC right now, and I certainly don't want to jinx the Lions and their fans.

They've never been to the Super Bowl.

But if they don't get there this year, I don't think it's ever going to happen.

So

I looked at last season's playoffs, right?

The final four, as it were,

in the NFC.

And it was on one side, it was the San Francisco 49ers, and they barely held off an upstart Green Bay Packers team who had upset the Cowboys the previous week at Jerrow World, sending the Cowboys into a doom spiral they've yet to recover from.

So you had Green Bay and San Francisco on one divisional tilt.

You had Detroit and Tampa Bay.

Tampa had dispatched a Eagles team that was obviously in total tatters by the time they stumbled into the playoffs.

You look at that four, and now I look at like who would be the final four in the NFC this year

if you had to guess.

Okay, we could buy on the Eagles right now as one of those lines, obviously,

certainly.

But from that point, I don't know because I'm kind of at this point a little bit of a sell on the 49ers.

I've seen enough this season to really buy into the idea that this is a team that is carrying a lot of emotional baggage from their shortcomings in recent years, and now the physical toll.

And is there a correlation, by the way, all these deep playoff runs with some of these core players breaking down this season?

They're playing so much more football at the most physical, intense level possible over multiple years, these core players on this team.

And now, by the way, even the quarterback, Brock Purdy, has a shoulder issue that he's dealing with.

And then you have

who else?

You look at the Minnesota Vikings, a team that, you know, I'm obviously Queen B of the Darnold Hive, but I think they're good more than great.

The Packers are a team.

I'm a queen B, bitch.

I can't figure out the Packers right now, and I look at their upcoming schedule.

I look at their, you know, in recent weeks, a narrow win over the Texans, barely beat the Jaguars.

They get beat by the Lions.

They need a block field goal to survive the Bears.

And now they have the 49ers at home, the Dolphins at home, at Detroit, at Seattle.

I don't, I feel like we're going to be talking about the Green Bay Packers scuffling quite a bit a month from now and trying to figure things out.

This is also the time of the year when Jordan Love really went last year and became a stud.

But so far this year, Jordan Love has thrown an interception in every game he's played.

He's already matched his interception total of last year

with 11.

So he's been an issue for them.

Their defense with happily leading it has been better, but

inconsistent, especially in the pass rush.

They could not get to Connor Williams for most of the game last week, a guy who's been completely

Caleb Williams, sorry, who's been completely under siege by every pass rush in the league this season.

I know they got to him at the end of the game, but I don't know.

I just don't trust the Packers.

So who are those teams?

Who's going to fill that vacuum if these teams fall off?

The Cardinals could be one of them.

But in general, I just see the path wide open for the Lions.

So I'm selling on the NFC as a team that could

bring any type of heat beyond the team in the Motor City.

So you don't buy the Eagles, which is not a surprise based on our history discussing.

No, I grant that the Eagles

are a representative team that could be in the NFC Final Four.

It makes sense to me.

But do I see the Eagles as an absolute juggernaut?

Like,

when you look at the power rankings, like, I have them at number five, but a clear

number, you know, the four teams ahead of them, I feel pretty strongly that they are in a different category than the Eagles, personally.

I'll say quickly, like, I'm with you on this

selling on the NFC because, you know, the AFC has been top heavier for a number of years in a row.

But for me, it's not so much that the Eagles are entirely problematic or that Washington.

And I don't want to make this an Eagles conversation because I'm kind of sick of talking about how Dan hates the Eagles.

I don't.

I think the Eagles make sense, Mark, as one of the teams that if they get to the second round of the playoffs and they're in the, you know, in a fight for the Super Bowl, they fit.

But like, who are the other two teams?

Like, to me,

like, I'm more saying.

Who else is there?

I'm saying that I'm with you because I kind of am aligned with you on like these other teams in the conference.

I just think that if Detroit, barring some sort of health scenario or injury status problem, like they're, they're rounding into a team that's dominant and it's just going to whack anyone.

Like it's more for me a lions thing.

And I don't see anyone else in the conference that can be as physical as them and can take them down in winter

outside of something we're not seeing yet that happens between now and January.

The House of Fame.

Maybe to kind of drill in a little bit more on it, Connor, like maybe this is just me trying to come to terms with the vacuum left behind by the 49ers' struggles.

And maybe the 49ers finally do turn around, but I feel like their struggles have really kind of turned the NFC upside down in terms of what is this conference other than this

singularly great Lions team right now.

As your therapist, I think that's a wise insight.

And

I disagree with you because I think what we're doing is we're a little bit of a prisoner of the moment.

And I think that we're making the AFC into something that it's not and then that forces us then to by association make the NFC into something that it's not right and so I think the AFC beyond

and even the best team in the AFC is the Chiefs and they're and they're flawed but you have the Bills who okay I mean their best win is the Chiefs but up until this point was just kind of hammering a mediocre AFC East and didn't really have a lot of quality wins up until this point.

And so these teams, their biggest quality wins, are kind of against one another, if that makes sense.

And Baltimore is flawed when Lamar Jackson gets into an unfavorable matchup.

And so a lot of these teams that you're just like, wow, that's unbelievable.

I don't see the AFC as existing on this other plane personally.

Like, I just think, I think it feels that way right now.

But if you are giving up your NFC shares, I am buying.

And the reason I'm doing that

because the Packers, even though they had an outlier turnover number, and so you know that they're not going to get a pick a game from Xavier McKinney, right?

And that's going to have to factor into how the end of the season looks.

They also are the worst, or I think the second worst red zone scoring team in the NFL.

And they've had a lot of bad luck in the red zone.

And if that even turns around marginally, like this is a team that could score like 33 points a game throughout the rest of the regular season.

And I like the youngness of the roster.

I like the fact that we don't know a lot about them.

I like the fact that they could surprise teams.

I think there's a lot of room to grow there.

That's all fair.

It's all fair.

Yeah,

a lot can change

and it probably will.

I mean, and to tie it back to you, Mark, like the Cardinals are a team that I think can benefit from this vacuum and maybe they become seen as a major Titan by January.

The Commanders, we can't.

bail on the Commanders because like we said on Sunday, like, you know, the quarterback hasn't been healthy, and I think that's affected them.

If Jaden Daniels could get back to what he was earlier in the year, they could kind of reassume a position as a team that could make noise in January.

And yes, maybe the Packers are fine, and maybe the Niners figure it out, and the NFC is a major dogfight.

I hope it is.

I hope it is, and it's not just a coronation over a month for the Lions.

Rarely, it turns out that way, but that's just kind of how it feels in the moment to me.

Zessler.

I like the idea that the calling is a Niners vacuum, by the way.

That's well said.

Okay, I think number one, when you look at economists back in history, like they had to create types of economies that weren't created.

So if they sound kind of insane when you bring it up, ideas that were like, wait a minute,

I live in this space where I'm going to help the greater good, and it doesn't seem like good right now.

So I'm buying hard on the idea of a human experiment.

And hear me out, okay?

We've got 32 teams in the NFL, and at times it just feels like we know what we're getting.

We know what we're getting every autumn to some degree, and it plays out.

I want to create a 33rd team as an experiment, okay?

They exist in the NFC East out of Fort Myers, Florida.

The nickname would be the Fort Myers Carpenter Bees, okay?

And here's why I think this works, and what I'm trying to sell to you, and what I'm buying, is we don't allow some stupid-faced white-tech billionaire or a day trader or some absurd mogul to be in charge.

It's basically like the Packers

times 15, okay?

NFL stadium dollars will subsidize the big money items like the stadium itself, okay?

Which will be named, the stadium will be named the Cottage of Hysteria, the Fort Myers Carpenter Bees in the Cottage of Hysteria.

This is a money-making human idea where

for a $1,000 entry fee, so we are clearing out some gibronis.

Like you've got to be invested.

You've got to care about the investment.

A thousand dollar entry fee allows the common man to be a stakeholder.

And the average person is a stakeholder.

And you have the same say as every other stakeholder.

And you all weigh in.

Your hard-earned money has power.

Free agent choices.

You help make them.

Trades, roster cuts, roster cuts, salary cap.

You run the front office as a committee.

We're not firing some...

some pale-faced guy in mid-November.

We are together in this.

You run the front office as a committee.

You hire and fire coaches as a group.

You build the team as a collective.

You go and hammer the Colts 54-3 in your season opener in 2029.

And you, the investor, earn cold cash when the Carpenter Bees slam people where it counts.

And so it creates this whole

entire other dynamic that we've wanted as sports fans where it's not some guy off in a suite with his son-in-law.

It is not that.

It is an NFL team that we create on our own, and we have all the say in it.

And I believe that this is something we could try.

The 33rd team in the NFL, the Fort Myers Carpenter Bees.

You hammer enemies on a weekly basis.

The money comes back to us.

This is finance.

So is it kind of like the

top ready?

Like instead of like the fake Packers thing where you buy the $350

certificate to put in your living room, you actually have a stake and a voice.

It's not that.

It's more, yeah, you have power.

And like it also, you know, it's, it is,

it's kind of like running your own fantasy team, but with thousands of other people that

want it to work.

And what incredible protection?

What could go wrong?

What incredible civic pride there would be when this team is just destroying these billionaire-run franchises?

Everyone, think about all the guys that you've run

fantasy leagues with over the years.

Now, put them all in a position of power where they have to make agreements on things and then watch the decisions they make.

I am selling, I am decreasing my position on the 33rd team in the NFL.

I hate the idea.

I hate the market.

Don't buy.

Don't buy.

I like the idea of people having the power and

billionaires and their brother-in-laws being taken down a peg.

And yet the structure of this feels inherently doomed and perhaps dangerous.

And

so I declined my involvement in this from a business sense or even from a moral standpoint.

And may God have mercy on your soul.

Sorry, Mark, I have to join Dan here.

I'm just thinking, like, logistically.

By the way, if these are drops that are used on that show, thank you for letting me know that I never have to watch that program.

Yes, I pulled all of these from the show.

So these are all real drops that Jim Kramer presses himself, by the way.

Yeah, he's got the post-producer double-duty board.

Yeah.

In fact, you know what?

We could end the drops too for the day.

You picked your limit.

There's just one I haven't hit.

Actually, there's two I haven't hit.

So I'm going to hit them real quick just so we play all of them.

Okay.

And what else?

What's lost?

Okay.

You got them all out?

I'm good.

Go ahead, Connor.

Just picturing like a Carpenter Bee's draft, and like a team offers to there's like five minutes on the clock and a team offers to trade up for like your third round pick like to move up like 11 spots and you have to consult like 600,000 owners via like a quick internet vote to decide.

Okay.

Right.

And then there's like a tie and then it's the and then the tiebreaker is Sully, the guy that delivers pizza in your neighborhood that's had 12 DUIs and isn't allowed to vote.

It's like he's deciding who makes the pick.

Would you agree?

I'll agree to know what the Jets are going to come with.

Obviously,

would you agree that great ideas are often declined by the masses out of the gate, as has just happened on this show?

That it's too scary of a concept.

Yes.

Absolutely.

I'm willing to be on the wrong side of history on this one, though.

Justin.

I like it as simply a test case of can football fans manage a team better than these drunken owners who manage it?

I called it an experiment.

Like I didn't say it's like it is a human experiment.

All right, let's, let's, can I offer a swipe, like a

tweak?

How do you pronounce it?

Is it coven?

Is it coven?

C-O-V-E-N?

Like a coven of vampires?

Yeah, like if we could have like a coven of people that represent

the fan, but these are, these are people that maybe even they run on a platform.

We could

like a board, like a board.

Essentially,

essentially, it's, I think, similar to how the Packers are run.

Again, I think this connects to the Packers a lot, but we come up with, yes, these are fans, straight up, first and foremost,

but they're fans that we could trust to make decisions and then see how they fare against these oligarchs throughout the NFL.

I think that's a fair, because,

you know, I didn't, you know, we spend the morning preparing for these shows.

It's possible I didn't investigate um intellectually every angle of this plot and so i think connor made a good point that like when you're trying to cook up like a draft day trade and you're working with

probably 700 000 relatively drunk individuals that could go wrong so you're right i think a board or a a representative

intellectuals yeah

but yeah but average shows yeah yeah not to go too deep on this this should be relatively average

it that's a prevailing like there uh i listened to this talk that this like sociologist gave on

he started running school elections that way as a social experiment because typically like anyone who runs for a leadership position basically has the same disease or mania, right?

Like and crave for power and ability to corrupt.

So what he started doing was they would just go to the school and they would just pick five random kids out of the auditorium and they were like, you are the president and so you guys vote and you have to talk about everything and hammer out like a common sense solution.

And it's like by far the most effective form of government that this guy has ever come across.

So,

five random people.

All right, we came all the way around, Mark.

Well, we put our heads together, and I feel like we're in a good spot now.

Connor, close this out.

So, um,

just talking about stocks, like it makes me feel like

you ever see the H.

John Benjamin thing, the comedian where

he does a jazz album, but

he gets all these really expensive jazz musicians into the studio, and then he's like, oh, shit, I don't know how to play piano.

And then like they so, like, they're playing a jazz intro, and then they just kick to him on the piano, and he just starts banging on the keys, and all these very serious people just look at him like, what the Christ are you doing?

By the way, H.

John Benjamin, I've been told dozens of times, is my voice doppelganger.

True story.

That could have been where I came up with the idea.

Yeah.

So I feel like a little bit of a fraud talking about this, but when you watch some of these shows, they're on while I'm at the gym sometimes doing like the Peloton.

And so what a lot of these investor people say is like they're looking at the bones of something, right?

And so

what is the fuel source of this thing?

What is the employment like?

What is the turnover like?

And so right now I have a unicorn stock.

I have a massive position in Riz.

Okay.

I am all.

Oh, Justin wants to hit a drop so bad right now, but he can't because he's used them up.

No.

Leave that out.

Go ahead, Connor.

So I am all in on Riz,

Darren Rizzy, the Saints Special Teams Coordinator.

Two wins in a row, very popular.

But you look at the inside of the company.

You look at the bones.

What is the fuel source of the Saints right now?

A 34-year-old white Mormon with injury issues.

That's concerning.

What about the coach himself?

Bathroom issues, which we've talked about before the game.

Does intestinal gut issues, does that impact him?

Was it more a plumbing issue?

But okay, go ahead.

I mean, if you had to offer enough to the toilet to clog it, right?

You know what I'm saying?

Right, sure.

Like, it's a presentation issue, you know?

And so that is why I am decreasing my position.

I am shorting the Riz.

So interesting.

Yeah, I'm shorting Riz.

Oh, I thought you were going in a different direction there.

Nope.

Well, if there is the famous Basatia bump,

rarely has carryover beyond two weeks.

I do think

Riz, if I can answer this in a more serious manner, I think he has been the benefit of the schedule.

God's two home games once against a false flag waving Falcons team, the Browns, who are obviously the Browns.

Let's see.

The Rams.

Well, you know, then they got the Giants.

If they can beat the Rams, all of a sudden we're talking about

a chance of the Saints, a team we forked, by the way, being very much in playoff contention if they can then beat a Giants team led by Tommy Cutlitz.

But then you get commanders, at Packers,

after that.

So there is a path.

There are some gimmies on the schedule.

The Raiders are also ahead.

I know it seems crazy, but

if this team is starting to believe and, you know, the why not us vibes start to build,

the Mormon quarterback,

who I think who's somebody sent it on a text thread today, is the number three rated quarterback according to Pro Football Focus right now.

Well, no, yeah,

that was going to be one of these topics I brought up that, like, and, you know, I think PFF, like,

they're courageous in what they do.

They just say, this is us, you got to like it or not.

But, like, I was looking at a couple ratings, and like the idea that Derek Carr,

I can look, let me check it, let me check this out here.

I kind of love it because it gets people so mad when Derek Carr is painted in any type of positive light.

It gets the internet big mad.

It's not just a Derek Carr thing, nor is it keeping me up at night.

I get that they've got their own things to do, but they have Jameis Winston ranked above Baker Mayfield right now.

They've got Aaron Rodgers ranked above Jared Goff.

Matthew Stafford is down at 29.

And they have Kenneth Walker ranked higher than Saquon Barkley.

And Joe Mixon nine spots lower than Bucky Irvin.

Okay, and Jamar Chase is six spots lower than Josh Downs.

So I just say you you can find examples where it's like, what are we doing here?

And I know they're adding all these different analytics up together and that it's not just based on passing with the quarterbacks, but still, like, when you go to that main board, like, it feels like a little bit of an LSD trip based on some of the spots.

There's too many losses still on the schedule, Connor, to believe that the Saints have a playoff run in them.

So, yeah, that would be a Riz extinguisher, I would think.

Just to clarify, by the way, Taysom Hill was the person I was referring to.

I don't think Derek Carr is Mormon, nor do I think Mormonism matters in terms of quarterbacking, so I don't want people to conflate that.

I was just, it was more of a funny question.

You called him a white Mormon, which I don't even know if you need to do that.

That seems,

you know,

somewhat redundant, like in terms of

somewhat.

Good to hammer at home.

All right, good stuff.

Let's really quick.

Let's move out.

Good job.

I hope everybody gets rich off whatever whatever we just did because it feels like some sound financial advice was doled out.

Let's quickly hit Thursday night football before we say goodbye.

The 8-2 Pittsburgh Steelers hit the road to face the 2-8 Cleveland Browns.

This game looks like, obviously, a big-time mismatch on paper.

And yet, and this was interesting to me, if you go in the desert, this is a line that opened at only four and a half points

Pittsburgh was giving here, and it's down to three and a half.

So,

you know, the Browns playing well at home on Thursday night doesn't seem crazy to me.

So now I'm just going to try to talk myself into it, Mark, that the Browns and Jameis Winston and throwing the ball around the yard, perhaps at home,

they put a scare or maybe even shock into the Steelers.

We end up watching a exciting back-and-forth game, but it also could very easily be 23 to 3 and that wouldn't surprise me either.

The latter feels more realistic to me, but I do I think you're like

with these Thursday night games between division foes

Yes, I think it could be a tight game.

I've got a couple major problems with Cleveland and it starts with the fact that like they lost Dawan Jones who is a second year tackle for them, a massive bodied guy who was playing pretty well at left tackle.

I mean, better than Dedrick Wills, who they basically benched.

So you've got major issues at left tackle.

Jack Conklin has allowed more quick pressures than any tackle, than any right tackle in the league, and you're facing a proof-of-concept TJ Watt-led Steelers defense that wreaks utter havoc on wanting offensive lines.

And while the Browns played well in that Ravens game, there was none of that that showed up in the contest since.

And so

there's one other little thing as a Browns follower that I was listening to Cleveland Radio this morning,

and they were talking about the fact that, and this is rare for the Browns because this is a great fan base, and they show up no matter what the team is doing, but that there are a lot of tickets available for this game, and they're available for very little money.

And Pittsburgh is like a two-hour drive away or something.

And like, I think that this becomes a Steelers crowd in Cleveland.

And I'll add one other little nugget: that Mike Vrabel back in the offseason said that he had no intentions to be more than sort of a consultant who never wore an earpiece during games.

And as of last week, he had not only sound an earpiece, but was very, very vocal on the sideline.

And I wonder if we are getting close to a regime change where the Ohio-based Mike Rabel is being courted and tested as a head coaching candidate for a team that is in utter freefall and fighting with itself behind walls.

So we'll see.

I think this could be one of those games where the Browns look a lot different a couple weeks from now if this goes very ugly because when you lose the Steelers, that's it.

It's like we talked about last week.

You could either let Kevin Stefanski go and you know that another team would sign him and that would take care of the offset on his contract extension.

Or really, if you think about it, if you're that determined to make this thing work, you could trade him.

And you could recoup some of the massive troph that you sent to the Texans for Deshaun Watson.

Like, you might be able to get, I mean, the going rate for a good NFL head coach right now is like a one.

So you could get a one.

Right?

I don't know.

Interesting.

But

so on this game, I think the one thing that is interesting is that even though the Browns look helpless, since Jameis Winston's taken over, they've allowed the sixth fewest quarterback pressures in the NFL.

And while it would not seem to make any sort of sense, like the offense does seem to run with some semblance of timing.

And maybe if you don't allow TJ Watt to wreck the game as he normally would and to just tear the face off of your quarterback and allow Tomlin to play that game, you have some athletic people up front still in Cleveland.

Russell Wilson is still one of the most sack-prone quarterbacks in the NFL.

Like, why not?

Like, I do, I legitimately think this game gets weird.

All right.

Yeah, I think it's certainly possible.

I did, it was popping up.

Somebody sent it to me and my mentions, the idea of Justin Fields being the quarterback of the Steelers, but only in the 20s on each end, and then Russell Wilson being the quarterback in the middle portion.

I mean, Mike Tomlin's a guy that probably would try that.

The Princeton Tigers do that.

My friend,

Coach Bob over at Princeton, amazing head coach, has run a three-quarterback offense before, which is so cool.

I went and did a story on that when I was at NFL.com, but he had like a Teebow-like quarterback, and he had more of like a traditional drop-back passer.

And he would run the Teebow guy from the 0 to the 20, and then the 20 to the 0.

And then you'd have the drop back guy between the 20s.

And it was so cool.

So, yes, somebody please make that happen.

That's an exactly

Madden team right there, too.

Whenever we'd hear Connor tell us about his Madden teams, like wild stuff's occurring.

Hell yeah.

If you can get to Cleveland before Thursday and then be there for presser availability just to put the idea in Tomlin's head, in case he hasn't thought of it already.

Like, you know, you might not get credit for it, but if it could lead to it happening, that would be cool.

Yeah.

Dig it.

Cue the Arthur Smith face after Russell Wilson's red zone in their shit.

It's just like, why are we doing this?

This is a horrible idea.

All right.

Good stuff.

Good stuff.

Thank you to everyone, of course, for watching.

We'll be back on Thursday with

the great Jordan Rodrigue and Michael Sean Dugar of the Athletic to preview week 12 in bulk.

I think it's a big bye week, and I know this only because my fantasy opponent this week is like

projected to score about 44 points because he has 11 guys not playing.

I was like, oh, this is going to work out for

Daddy Rich this week.

How many bye teams this week,

Justin?

Six.

Oh,

Falcons, Bills, Bengals, Saints, Jets, Jaguars.

Like that.

Like that.

All right.

So fewer games to break down on Thursday, but we'll give them all the love in the world.

Connor, Godspeed, man.

Always great.

See you on Sunday.

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