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The Heed the Call podcast

is no longer accepting applications for the Darnold mine.

No, you had your chance.

So now you can wait outside in the cold.

Welcome to Heed the Call with Dan Hansis and Mark Sessler.

Yes, the cold.

Maybe not the cold, but the crisp.

The crisp air in autumn.

Now we're talking, Mark.

This is my favorite time of the year

in sports.

You have the baseball playoffs getting into form, kicking off, and then you have the NFL season.

Now it's starting.

You're starting to get a better handle on what's going on and it just gets a little more serious.

And uh-oh, is that a turtleneck I see someone wearing?

The warming or the cooling of the temperature.

It's all the good stuff.

I love October sports.

October is the greatest month.

I think for football, you know, we felt that way after Sunday that you start to to get a real read on some of these teams.

What I love about October is there's an element of, you know, we're not far from the winter months.

There is some darkness to it.

And, you know, back in July, you've got like Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase at like a fashion show and Joe Burrow's like in a backless blouse walking up and down a catwalk.

Well, now

we're, you know, we'll find out on Sunday if Joe Burrow is somewhere very different or not.

Like these matchups matter and like you can't just keep taking L's and you've got to wear the turtlenecks.

You got to wear the corduroy pants.

My child just bought corduroy pants.

I was like, I haven't worn those since about fifth grade, but they make that sound when you walk very special.

Yeah, you try to go to Acroshore Field.

Man, Heinz was so much better.

You try to go to Acroshore with a backless shirt on, and you see what happens, Joe Burrow.

You'll find out.

That's okay.

He could have fashion sense.

He could take risks.

That's fine.

No judging.

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audience only.

Without further ado,

let's welcome in.

And I could tell these are October people, too.

I don't know if they're athletic.

I'd be curious about that too, but I know they work for the athletic.

It is Jordan Rodrigue and Michael Sean Dugar.

What's up, game?

mike have you in your career your amateur career high school career were you a baller

uh i played some like jvc basketball at my high school my high school was pretty tough to make the team uh for what it's worth and i was also five five seven uh at the time we produced a couple nba guys though so like that to put in perspective how tough uh it is to sounds like an excuse but yeah yeah i'm just you know it's or context depending on how you put it but i'm an avid flag football player now i'm in a couple leagues play every saturday now that's my new thing.

Yeah.

How about J-Rod?

Um, I ran cross-country.

I played tennis.

I played basketball, and I was very medium at all of it.

Right in the middle.

Yeah, that's cool.

That's fun.

It makes you relatable, you know, to the kids that were on the higher end and the lower end.

You were a bridge builder.

Yeah, I was like a confidence.

That's who you are now.

I was like a confidence boost for the people who are good at, really, really good at sports.

And then I was relatable to the people who were really, really bad like I just I got along you know you just get along with everybody you know it's people like Jordan on her sports teams that actually make the world go you need those people

all right this why do you not ask me about my athletic career from my youth

I mean I've heard the stories about your athletic career there's a nebulous story about you being a cornerback at some point when you were 11

a dangerous running back at around age 12 but I I never got the vibe, although we never had this conversation, that you played any varsity sports.

It's nebulous.

I was on the team, but that was more to like for the people up in the stands to be like, wow, this football coach who was a bit of an egotist, like he has gotten, you know, flocks of young men to join the team because of his motivational abilities.

And like, I would literally,

as like a sophomore, if you were in like a muddy field, I'd get down to both knees and like

try to just get mud on my uniform to look like I had done anything because it was like crystal clean and you know just come out of my mom's washer and dryer.

So terrible situation.

Hey, Mark,

would you say that it's accurate that you are an athletic supporter?

Yes, I think from a certain angle.

You really nailed him.

Yes, I think from a certain angle, that's true.

Jordan's coming in hot tonight.

I'll tell you what.

All right, let's get into it.

I lettered.

I lettered.

Okay.

Yeah, but everyone did.

I lettered.

Baseball and basketball.

I once, our team was so bad junior year of basketball.

We went 3-17.

We were supposed to play Peakskill in the opening round of the sectionals.

Peakskill, who was anchored by a young center named Elton Brand, who went on to be, I think, the number one pick in the NBA draft.

We opted not to play the game.

That was a decision we made.

And I think it shows its character.

Character.

A certain character.

Sometimes quitting is okay.

Let's get into it.

Week five.

It is not time.

It is not time

to

panic if you're an NFL team.

Or maybe it is, because it is October.

And it's time to start winning games.

And the teams that are off to slow starts, you got to flip a switch.

And there are cracks forming for certain teams.

And other teams.

Something tells me we're going to talk about the Washington Commanders in the top of the show today.

And that gets me so excited.

Are just taking flight.

And it's so exciting.

So let's dig into all of the week five games now.

By the way, the Lions, Titans, Eagles, and Chargers are all on bye this week.

It's the first bye week.

We start, as we always do, with the primetime games, and let us get going with Sunday night football.

The Dallas Cowboys and Pittsburgh Steelers.

Jordan Rodrigue, a classic rivalry, all those Super Bowls, all that good stuff.

But here's a Pittsburgh team finally tasted defeat, but a lot to be optimistic about coming out of September against a Dallas team that has struggled.

They did get a win in week four, but now they're missing Micah Parsons potentially, doubtful with a sprained ankle.

I loved the October talk at the beginning of the show from you guys.

Oh, the leaves.

It really got me thinking about, I mean, that is the perfect place.

That stadium is the perfect October football stadium.

I mean, the bridges and the wind starts to kick up and it's like crisp, but like there's this

just toughness, this physicality that starts to see.

That's what this team is built like now.

And it's starting to come along on the offensive side, too.

I'm really excited about some of the things we're seeing this offense put together.

And it looked a little bit shaky, a little bit ponderous at first.

But Justin Fields is doing a lot of different things that I don't think people expected him to do.

I mean, over half of his throws are still outside the numbers, but he showed he can do multiple things inclusive to those Arthur Smith, Art Smith specials, which is hit the middle of the field, hit the check down.

And he's also running a lot of their different personnels because when he can run those extra running back personnels that Arthur Smith likes, he himself also adds dimension to that because of the threat of the run.

I really, really like how this is getting put together here.

And the defense is just classic vintage Pittsburgh defense to me.

I'm with you.

I think Justin Fields, who has really been pretty dynamic throwing short passes as well, they've done a lot.

Like, they overcame their deficiencies early.

And Dallas is the fifth worst tackling team in the league right now.

You don't have Demarcus Lawrence.

You mentioned Parsons is out.

And it's kind of a bit of an injury game for me.

And I want to see who's healthy that night because Jalen Warren also didn't practice for the Steelers.

Cordero Patterson didn't practice Wednesday.

Najee Harris is there.

They've brought people up from the practice squad to the active roster.

but it's like, I would run at Dallas, and I would use Justin Field as a runner too in this.

I would go full on Arthur Smith.

I kind of feel, there's just, I get a feeling about these games sometimes, not that they come out, but like...

I think people just magnetize towards Dallas.

I think Pittsburgh takes this.

I think they sink Dallas into

the mire, and that would be a huge loss for Dallas.

And I think Justin Fields, it's the kind of night in prime time where we're looking at it in like two rushing touchdowns and sort of devastates Dallas on defense.

I think it's the kind of game where Justin Fields is feeling comfortable finally in this offense.

It looks that way.

And I just don't believe in the Cowboys right now.

I'm struggling with them.

What do you see, Mike?

I think I might need to change my pick here.

This is the top of this segment.

We've convinced you.

Well, I mean, I'm not convinced.

It's a gut check for Dallas, no doubt.

Mike, this is a gut check for Dallas, and they haven't shown much of a backbone overall so far this season.

But if one were to emerge, it would be in the setting, you would think.

Yeah, I'm not super high on Pittsburgh's offense quite yet.

I like what I saw from the Colts game.

I did really like that.

But I guess I'm just not, I agree with the sentiment that Dallas is in trouble, mostly defensively.

I think they're one of the teams, Bengals are another one we're talking about, where like, I guess the Colts fall in this bucket too, where how the team was constructed, you could just see like an obvious issue with that.

The Giants as well, just choosing to not have cornerbacks, you know.

Just some teams are just flawed in that way.

The Cowboys, in this sense, basically, like,

we kind of need linebackers, but not really, you know?

And then what do you know?

They don't tackle well.

Very foreseeable issue.

And then I rewatched the Giants game from Thursday night football.

You know, bless my heart that I just decided to do that.

You're a professional.

If Daniel Jones could throw farther than my daughter, then they would have probably beaten the Cowboys.

You know, I went back and watched that double move Malik Neighbors put on that booth kid.

Like, Malik Neighbors looked like a center fielder waiting for that ball.

Shout out to the homie Dan Duggan who covers the Giants.

He said it looked like Malik was trying to fair catch the ball.

That's how late it was.

You know, he missed it.

Daniel missed another one on a deep shot to Slayton on, I believe it was a free play on offsides.

Like he was throwing arm punts out there.

And you know, I think the good teams, a team like, you're not even a good team, Fields can take advantage of that.

His arm is very strong.

To you guys' point about how well he's been playing.

So

I liked Dallas about three minutes ago.

But as soon as we started getting going, yeah, I feel a little concerned.

I do agree, though.

If Dallas loses this, it will feel like it will specifically feel bad because it'll look like they got bullied.

Like the style of ball that Pittsburgh's going to have to play to beat them will feel demoralizing.

I don't think this will be a shootout.

This will be like, oh, Dallas got its ass kicked.

I mean, just imagine it, Jordan.

If this game goes the other way on Dallas

on primetime.

I mean, forget about like all the talking heads exploding at the same time come Monday morning.

You have a quiet, the question begins to be asked, like, is are certain people in trouble in that building?

Jerry Jones is, I think he's the, I talked about it this week, actually,

on a radio show, JD Bunk is in Toronto.

They do a great show up there.

Great show.

JD does great on there.

Yep.

He said, what's going to happen with Dallas if they keep struggling?

It's like, I don't know.

Like, is Jerry Jones tethered to reality?

Is almost the question.

Does Jarrah see what we all see, that this is a team that has struggled defensively to get stops?

Now you're missing two of your best players on your defensive line.

And we shared the crazy-ass stat on Wednesday, Jordan, that the longest rushing play of the season for the Cowboys is 12 yards by CeeDee Lamb.

So it's like,

I don't want to make it reductive and just say, okay, Dak, you better put this team on your back and find a way in this game.

But on some level, yeah, you kind of need a monster effort from the quarterback and the offense in this game.

Well, you've gotten it from the quarterback.

I mean, it's crazy.

I was listening to Mike Tomlin talk about Dak Prescott this morning.

And he did the thing that that coaches who feel really bad for the opposing quarterback because of all the things that they have to do and work through did where he just absolutely gushed about him and all of the different things, including the leadership qualities that he shows.

And I don't disagree with Mike Tomlin, but when a coach does that so overtly, and they haven't, you know, that he, he mentioned too, he hadn't watched a lot of him this season until they started doing the game breakdowns.

And when a coach does that so overtly, it's sort of a quiet statement about like, hey, Dak, we see see all the things that you're trying to hold together right now.

You know, CeeDee Lamb, that

carry, that 12-yard carry, that's the most distance.

I mean, I'm projecting here, but it's like the most distance he's gotten from anybody at any point this season.

He is second to last in the league in separation rate right now.

And Dak has nobody else to throw to.

Brandon Cooks, you know, who is working through his own struggles right now, and that's concerning the infection.

After a procedure internally by the team to help clean up that knee a little bit, you know, that's an issue.

And the

Jalen Tolbert and Brandon Cooks only had 19 targets a piece anyway.

So

this is an offense that's, and the run game doesn't, you know, what are we doing?

It doesn't look like,

you know, I've said all season and in the preseason, the Cowboys feel like they're on the brink of something.

And that's never good if you're a team because you could be on the brink of something really bad and probably not swinging back the other way.

And they just feel like in limbo and in this weird gray area.

And I do think Pittsburgh has every advantage in this game.

All right.

Well, Money Mike now has to be on the other side of that after that conversation.

Let's see if the Pittsburgh Steelers can fall through.

And before I move on, one last point.

Russell Wilson is returning to practice now, and Mike Tomlin is not making any big declarative statements about the quarterback.

But if they win again and they win in prime time and things go well with that offense, I mean, Tomlin doesn't have to say anything.

We know who the QB1 of that team is, injury or not.

Let's move to Monday night football.

The New Orleans Saints coming off a very, very frustrating loss, get beat at the gun on a 58-yard field goal by a team that didn't even score a touchdown in the game, you know, on offense, just a horrible loss.

One of those ones that stick to the ribs of a team.

Their reward for that now, that heartache, is to travel to Arrowhead to get the Chiefs.

And, And Mark, this is a Chiefs team that's going through it themselves right now.

Rashi Rice suffered what at the time was an absolute devastating injury that was thought to be season-ending.

I don't think we have clarity yet, which is a little surprising on if it is a season-ending injury.

But either way, it's probably a serious injury.

And now this Chiefs' offense, which again has been stuck in neutral for the most part this season, loses the one guy that they could really count on.

What version of the Chiefs' offense do we get?

Do we see Andy Reid make some changes to try to jumpstart the attack?

Andy Reid is having to change the version of the offense week to week because they keep losing guys.

Isaiah Pacheca was the engine to this offense, and then suddenly we're watching Kareem Hunt back in the lineup.

This feels weird to me visually.

Marquise Brown was a big part of the plan.

He's not there.

Rashi Rice was blooming into a legit alpha, like a star.

Like I thought he was just someone that could have really changed the trajectory of the passing game.

Patrick Mahomes has six touchdowns and five interceptions.

Like, so if you took the name off the jersey, you'd be questioning him in a different way.

He still leads right now on FanDuel, the MVP race, which I just think it says, like, no matter what happens to Mahomes and the Chiefs.

Yeah, I just looked it up.

It's like, I mean, it's possible.

It's possible because it's Patrick Mahomes, and we, like, no matter what seems to be happening to this team, like, they are undefeated, and we're not

really willing to dissect what's happening to this offense.

I I think they're really like having to figure it out.

But it's because of trust in the quarterback, and it's because of the trust in Andy Reid.

And I think that's very foundational.

And I think this is a defensive-led team that with Steve Spagnola is going up against the Saints offense that looked like the 99 Rams two weeks in.

You lose Eric McCoy.

Early on in week three, and I think that changed a lot.

I really think that this line is in a completely different place without Eric McCoy.

And it's a big test for Derek Carr.

It really is on the road in Kansas City against Steve Spagnola, who no matter what, we could talk about Andy Reid, but we all know that Spagnola is also the guy that

each week finds a way to

take the matchup and maximize his defense.

And I really trust the Kansas City defense to carry this offense until they find their flow and who they are.

One thing I did want to point out on the Kansas City offense is I actually was wondering when I was kind of digging in, watching a little bit, but then also digging into some of where Pat Mahomes has been very, very successful.

And this offense has sort of been spamming

the yards after the catch.

And I almost wondered if this might actually become the Travis Kelsey game that we've all been waiting for, because the one area, this Saints defense

is a group full of badasses.

I mean, three of their defensive backs rank in the top eight in splash plays per snap, which are defined by tackles for loss, takeaways, pass breakup, et cetera, sort of of the make-a-difference plays in the coach speak terminology.

But they're allowing a lot of yards after the catch.

They've allowed the third most yards after the catch overexpected so far this season.

And that area is actually where Pat Mahomes is buttering his bread right now per next-gen stats.

And also, if you go and watch,

it's interesting.

They're almost like getting these receivers up to speed like this before they suddenly can switch gears and kind of start

asking Travis Kelsey to turn it on in the back half of the season.

And And I do think that

one point I wanted to make, too, is I don't think we have clarity on Rashi Rice yet because I don't think they're trying to show their hand because they're going to have to make a move for a receiver.

And if you know that that's a season-ending industry or injury, or that's like very clear and out there and overt by the team, then you're automatically going to up the trade ask if you're an opposing team.

Hmm.

I don't know.

Is Rashi Rice cool with like being, I don't know, his health status being used as like a chip for their.

I mean, it's my theory.

I don't know if it actually is.

That's just my theory.

It doesn't matter one way or the other.

Yeah,

I think the offensive line, Mark, you made a good point there about McCoy and how they had to move some chairs around, and it hasn't been quite at the same level.

Also, I think what we saw from Vic Fangio in week three, you saw the Atlanta Falcons do the same thing in terms of how you plan to

game plan to stop this Saints offense and keep the explosive plays out of it.

That has disappeared the last couple of weeks, Mike.

So once you take that out of it, now all of a sudden it feels a lot more like the old Derek Carr offense.

And as I said last Sunday, I don't know what Taysom Hill's status is, but when he went out of the game in week four, that offense cratered without him, which is crazy that we're still talking about that, but we are.

So the Saints right now are in prove it mode once again on offense.

Jordan's injury conspiracy theory reminds me of, you know, I'm a koog.

I went to, you know, I went to Washington State when Mike Leach was there.

He notoriously didn't talk talk about injuries.

He did.

One time he, uh, our quarterback got taken off on a stretcher, and, you know, he did that like halftime interview thing.

Oh, no, he did the, we won the game.

He did the interview on the sideline, and they were like, hey, what happened to Luke Falk?

And they were like, he was like, oh, we're resting him in the second half.

That's all.

On a stretcher.

On a stretcher.

It was so, so bad.

Anyway,

what happened to the Saints offense after week two is basically what I thought would happen to the Vikings after a few weeks, you know, where the clock just strikes 12 and then, oh, there it is.

There's the offense that we know and love.

Teams have basically figured out

Shahid, excuse me, just basically just does one thing.

He just does it really well, just runs fast by your defense.

But if you plan for it and have competent defensive backs, you can be fine.

I'm actually, I give the utmost, or if I don't know if that's the right adjective, but just benefit of the doubt to the Chiefs' offense.

I really do feel like they could take the five of us, Kelsey, and then that O-line, and we'll get first downs

with Andy Reid.

No, I believe in Mark too.

Excuse me.

Thank you.

They threw a touchdown to a lineman a couple weeks ago.

Like I really think they can get all of us.

Wait, we're talking about the guy that got on his knees and rubbed dirt on his pants.

I believe

we're also talking about Andy Reid.

What a visual.

Andy Reid, who does great work, by the way.

So, yeah, I believe in them.

I think they'll figure it out no matter what.

Not to say it'll be pretty, because Jordan's right, this defense is nails, but I mean,

I don't ever think Patrick Mahomes is going to to lead a bad offense.

I just, I just, I will never, I have to see that first.

I think they'll be fine.

But doesn't anybody else, he doesn't lead a great offense anymore.

And I'm not saying it's his fault, but it's, and now you take Rice out of it, and we're going to get to Devontae Adams and everything.

I was like, oh, maybe they'll go get Adams, and that will be fun.

But that apparently is not in the cards the way that's playing out.

So, you know, options could be limited.

And, you know, maybe if...

Maybe.

I don't even want to say because it could change by the time the show goes up about Rice's injury, but like you needed that guy on the field, I thought.

So you take him out of it.

It's a major problem.

All right.

Let's take a break.

And when we get back, we talk about the games we cannot wait to watch in week five.

This episode of He the Call with Dan Handis and Mark Sessler is brought to you by BetterHelp.

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All right.

We're back.

Primetime games in the rear view.

Let's talk about the games we cannot wait to watch.

And I, you know, I am aware who Jordan's about to talk about, but I just want to let the audience know and the audience that goes way back with us back to 2013 that this has never happened before.

Like when it's like, what is the game we need to talk about?

We got to get it near the top of the show.

The team we're about to talk about has never been, never sniffed this territory.

So historic moment in the history of the show.

Jordan, I trust you to steward this with Grace.

Go ahead.

I'm honored and internally panicking and screaming my head off.

Okay, so I have

Cleveland at the Washington Commanders.

That's 1 p.m.

Eastern on Fox with Jason Bonetti, Greg Olson, and the GOAT Pam Oliver.

It is.

Wait, one second, one second.

Who the hell is Jason Bonetti?

We're going to skim right past that.

It's hard.

So this would have been Joe Davis, but Joe Davis

is doing playoff baseball.

So Bonetti's getting a second chance here.

Least.

These are things I don't know.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, that's a name.

Okay.

Good for him.

Bonetti.

Benetti getting a big call.

Bonetti at a big spot.

Yo, somebody kicked the Bonetti hive because it's about to go off.

All right.

J-Rod, back to you.

I just saw Greg Olson.

I was like, yay.

It's hard to not feel the significance of the obvious here.

This bright, joyful lightning bolt of a quarterback in Jaden Daniels, who right now looks like the future of the NFL, is going to face a Cleveland team that feels leaden and woeful, and you don't even feel bad about it because so much of that is sadness.

You are a factory of sadness.

A team brilliantly exploring its future clashes with a team reckoning with its disastrous present.

At least Nick Chubb practiced this week.

He's great.

It's incredible how the right quarterback can give you hope and the wrong one can fill you with dread.

I also can't wait to watch this game because I can't wait to hear Greg Olson, who will have spent the entire week with these teams and should be in the one spot, by the way.

And like he'll have been looking in and talking with Jaden Daniels.

And I feel like as much as we're learning about this kid and every week we learn something new and awesome, having Olson in the broadcast meetings and at practice and talking to Jaden Daniels and sharing that insight on the broadcast and then parsing and breaking down his game, I think we're going to learn so much about the future from this game.

I can't wait to watch it.

I'm excited.

Here we go.

First of all, Bonetti is in those meetings too, Jordan.

Just so you know.

Don't discount Bonetti.

This is Bonetti erasure.

The Bonetti hive is kicked up like a hornet's nest.

Let's listen to Dan Quinn, coach.

By the way, Dan Quinn,

I meant to say this the other day when they had the locker room after the game, and he was going, you know, ape shit about Cliff.

I'm not saying he pulls off the backwards hat, Dan, but he has, he wears it with confidence.

So while it might, it might appear it's like, oh, suburban dad wearing the backward hat, the fact that he like he's comfortable in his skin wearing it, I respect that.

So can I say one thing?

He's got the right shape.

I, you know, we're at the age where I still have friends that they'll, you'll get together.

I mean, it's just guys or something, like the guy that still wears the backward hat.

And I can think of one guy named Dan Mullen who he's got the right shaped head.

Need it.

So it works.

And so I think Dan Quinn, we've all seen him in person.

He's got the right shaped head for a backwards hat where it just does not work for other guys.

It works for girls really well all the time, but

not for some guys.

And they've got to know that.

I'm feeling very aware of my forward-facing hat right now.

But that's working.

And there's no critique.

When we come back from this sound of Dan Quinn talking about Jaden Daniels' work ethic, Jordan will be wearing her hat backwards.

All right, here we go.

Featuring players of the things that they can do well, which Jaden can do a lot of things well,

but finding those things that the other receivers can do well in different spots, different routes, I think that's some of this.

To think, you know, he would start like this.

No, I don't think anybody would have said that.

But what I would say is that if you're around him, you feel this work ethic.

And there's no you know, magic pixie dust that we're throwing into him.

Like, it is absolutely grinding, working, and a lot of confidence comes from that because he can enter the game knowing that he put the work in.

I mean, he's got a perfectly round head as well.

That's that's important.

He was bald there.

This from Nikki Jahavala.

Honors for Jaden Daniels so far this season.

Rookie of the Week, week one.

Rookie of the Week, week three.

Rookie of the Week, week four.

Nickelodeon valuable player, week four.

NFC Offensive Player of the Week, week three.

NFL offensive rookie of the month in September.

And while Justin looks up the MVP odds of the rookie passer of the commanders, I'll throw it to the sess dog because Mark, Jordan did a nice job there setting it up because it feels like these are teams in totally opposite places.

The Browns, meanwhile, are a team, they're the only team in the NFL with their

2003 million dollar man at quarterback that has yet to have a 300-yard game.

And I don't mean 300 yards passing by the quarterback.

300 total yards of offense in a game.

They are less than DVOA in offense.

It's been a slog,

tough setup here.

Yeah.

And I'm going to remove even my lifelong Browns fandom, which is challenged a lot.

I think Browns fans, which are an incredible fan base, they've been through, they've literally gone down like the seven levels of hell and back like multiple times, almost seasonally.

And this is like unabashedly the biggest disaster offense in the NFL.

This is a team with a lot of good players, and it doesn't look like it.

On either side of the ball right now, they've spent the most money.

They've spent it poorly.

It's kind of like if your significant other went to Jamaica with who knows who on your credit card, nothing good is going to happen to you in that situation.

They've got the most dropped passes in the NFL.

They can't run the ball.

I understand that Nick Chubb might come back, but Nick Chubb is not alone going to save this.

Now, like, we keep saying this every week, but they literally have both their starting tackles on a DNP right now.

They're not practicing.

Their center is not practicing.

Their two backup tackles were limited in practice this week.

So even if they play, you know these guys are not healthy.

And so part of that is what's happening to Deshaun Watson.

The other part is Deshaun Watson.

And it's almost like, what else can we say at this point?

Kevin Stefansky, two-time coach of the year, has only really survived and looked competent as a coach of an offensive team without Deshaun Watson.

So it's like you're in this unfixable situation because you're tied to him forever.

I lost my fearless prediction that Watson would get benched, but I'm not wrong.

And a lot of Browns Browns fans are not wrong.

He should be.

You lost your fearless prediction.

That can't happen.

How was that?

It's okay.

You know what?

And I know.

And I knew going in that was a tough call.

Like, that was a, you know, I even thought you were.

Well, you directly contradicted what we talked about like a day earlier last week that, you know, we something we wanted to see, but wasn't going to happen.

And then you predicted it would happen.

If we wanted to call it like, you know, dangerously logical prediction, then I would have not aggressive.

It was a fearless prediction.

And fearless suggests you're going against the odds, against the storm.

I lost, but they're losing because they didn't do what we all think they should do.

The one thing that could happen that could benefit them is Washington is so exciting right now, but they still have a very bad defense.

They're last in EPA per play, last in EPA per drive, last in EPA per pass, and last in third down percentage as a defense.

So there is a, it's a glimmer, I guess, but you just have this really exciting moment happening on the other side.

It just is, it's going to be a really sour,

depending on who you are, reminder of what could be possible for you if you get it right there at that position.

And by the way, the Browns also have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL.

So it's just a lot of stuff bad vibrations.

They're clicking on all levels.

It's an opposite click.

It's a bizarro click.

You like factory of sound.

I'll give you the last word on this, and I'll just let you know because you are Money Mike Dugar after all.

This surprises me.

According to Gravedigger, Daniels is tied for the eighth highest odds at plus 3,000.

That's 30 to 1 odds.

I mean, are we sure we don't want to get in on that right now?

Oh, that's MVP?

Yeah.

Ooh,

that is interesting.

I feel like Josh Allen has he'll have stats and narrative on his side.

Hashtag narrative on his side.

Daniels is going to have plenty of narrative of his own if he keeps this up.

No, no, he will.

I think that as they play some more competent defenses, things get interesting for Cliff Kingsbury and that offense.

Cause it like

justice for Cam Taylor Britt, the Bengals corner, like he was kind of right about the design of their offense.

It is pretty simple, but like, that's not a bad thing.

You know, they stay on schedule really well.

They don't face a lot of third and longs when they do.

Cliff makes it really simple for Jaden.

And it's not simple because of what Jaden can't do.

It's just simple because of what's best for them to move the ball.

Like, if Jaden has to let it fly, he's proven to be pretty accurate there.

You know, as the Cardinals just learned, trying to do all that like drop eight defense for some reason against them.

He just picked that apart.

I do like this matchup, though, for the Browns defensively.

Like, if they can cover really well, the skill players on Washington are pretty underwhelming outside of Terry McLaurin.

Like, they've been moving the ball, kind of working underneath, kind of how the Ravens beat the Bills on Sunday night football.

Just run it down your throat and then, you know, catch and run, make your DBs have to come tackle.

Like, the Browns can't tackle, so there's that issue.

But like, Schwartz is pretty good.

He's got some really good man coverage.

People, he's got some speed on that defense.

He's got pass rush.

So I think it actually be a really fun game.

I like the over, whatever it is.

But yeah, I don't know about the 3,000 for for jaden i i still think josh is probably where i would put my money that's my money mike endorsement for week five oh there you go you get it and we have to you know we gotta like i said last week i think we need to start checking in on these money mike predictions to see how he's doing because it's part of the brand both for mike and for our show

yes yes we do i don't i i think i had a decent week last week uh but aaron jones aaron jones really hurt me i can't believe he didn't score against the pack they tried in green Green Bay.

Mike, they tried.

Are you kidding?

Everybody scored.

I almost scored.

I tried to get it.

I can't believe that he didn't get in the end zone.

That was a good game, though, by the way.

Yes, Grave.

Four for eight last week on the Money Mike picks.

49ers covered.

49ers Patriots hit the over.

Aaron Jones did not score an anytime touchdown.

Saints, Falcons did not stay under 42.5.

The Steelers did not beat Indy.

The Cardinals did not beat Washington.

But you got the Cardinals Commanders over 50.5, and the Bengals dominated the Panthers covered 3.5.

Are we sure

eight different wagers

hey yeah mike we gotta we gotta make this more uh economic we gotta rein it in a little bit my dad asks for like 10 bets every saturday he wants me to build him parlay so like eight is you know that's that's something but if you go if you split it you know after the vig you're down so we we want to get to that 60 to 70 percent hit rate but we're going to keep working on it we believe in you we believe in the brand i will keep i will keep going so far though my only one this so far this week i got more but yeah i would i would roll with josh allen on MVP until something drastic changes.

Okay.

And I'll go with Jaden Daniels.

And Mark,

just circling back before we move on,

in this scenario, are you aware?

Were you made aware beforehand, did you get permission, your significant other going to Jamaica with your credit card?

What is the background on that story?

Is this an open relationship?

That didn't happen to me.

I'm saying like we've all we all like, you know, anecdotally know that that's happened to someone.

And it's I'm just saying it's never a good thing.

We all know it.

One in five Americans.

It happens to people in a certain situation where they're not.

The old girlfriend jets to Jamaica with another man and my credit card.

Well, no, I said with who knows who.

Like you're probably being told, oh, it's a girl's trip.

Like, nothing good is going to happen to you in that situation.

So, and you're, you know.

Checks and balances.

I'll back you up, Mark.

That did happen to someone that I know.

It was Vegas, though, not Jamaica.

Right.

It's fill-in-the-blank location, but it's not going to be, they're not going there to feed the homeless or, you know,

not a church retreat.

All right.

Mark, what is your game that you cannot wait to watch?

It is Baltimore at Cincinnati.

And I want to start with something that is sort of on my radar.

And it's been going on for years now.

What is this game?

First of all, what is this game doing at 10 a.m.

West Coast time?

Baltimore at Cincinnati, buried in a shallow grave beside Panthers Bears.

But why is Kevin Harlan announcing 10 a.m.

games?

This is a, we've had him on the show in the old days.

This is a literal poet stuck doing early Sunday games.

That is an annoyance to me.

That's where I'll start.

The Ravens are feeling themselves right now.

The blood is flowing to all regions.

They just cracked the Bills like an egg on primetime television.

I think they showed exactly who they can be, and it was pretty powerful.

And if you're a member of the Bills, player a coach, let's not act like the coaches are pure.

We've all been to Indianapolis, but the Bills embarrassed their own wags, okay?

They embarrassed their mistresses, their second mistresses, their DM targets, their out-of-town hookups, their baby mamas, their actual moms.

That's what Todd Muncke and the Ravens exposed.

They bar-fought Buffalo into submission.

Almost like an investigative journalist, the Ravens used their heavyset, distant-era, misdirection-laden ground formations to expose the Bills' organization, announcing we've raided your village, we've burnt it down.

Now it's the Bengals under pressure, a movable feast on defense.

This is the game of the week right here.

I don't know what it's doing.

Early on on Sunday, that's annoying.

There's 14 other games happening.

You can't even pay attention.

The Ravens can sink Cincy to one and four, or the Bengals become very real with a win.

Kevin Harlan, take us there.

I love it, Mark.

You know, can I just say, though, like we talked about, who do we ask for?

Justice for who?

Who was it earlier?

It was for Kevin Taylor Britt.

How about justice for the 1 p.m.

Sunday slot?

Because I know the NFL wants to tell you that that's not essential anymore.

And the NFL wants to tell you that soon enough, Sunday will be just a couple of primetime games.

But I like a nice, full, beefy

set of one o'clocks and four o'clocks and a great game up top and a great game at the four.

I'm cool with it.

That's all I'm saying.

And on Harlan, like, you know, Harlan's going to be ready.

He's going to deliver no matter what time you turn on his mic.

Yes.

I agree with that.

Like Harlan told us that what he does in the hotel room before the game on Sundays, and he has like a two-hour tape or a CD.

I don't know if it's a casset tape.

He's a bit of an older guy, but

he plays NFL films music nonstop at a high volume just to get his heart and spirit and soul and verbalization into the right place.

That is the most wholesome thing I have ever heard.

Jordan Rodriguez, I love,

you know, because it is October.

And have I mentioned that?

It's October.

Love October.

Turtleneck season, SZN.

And it is also Joe Burrow and Bengal season.

We got out of that.

infernal September.

They are now starting to click.

And if you look at at what's happening with the offense, they have something cooking now in the running game.

They have something cooking here with Chase Brown and Zach Moss

in the running game.

And you know what?

T.

Higgins is healthy.

And Jamar Chase is healthy.

And those guys are now looking like...

This offense is looking like the offense that we remember.

Jamar Chase had the long, beautiful touchdown, breaking multiple tackles last week.

T.

Higgins per PFF, 14 14 yards depth of target.

So that guy is spread in the field and is a playmaker.

I think they're really set up here to do some damage.

I don't care if it's the Ravens.

One thing that could be troublesome for them, though, is that this last game, the Ravens defense finally looked like the Ravens defense as well.

So I think these two teams...

are meeting each other at this perfect collision course where they finally sorted some of their personal BS out or whatever.

And then now they're both sort of reminiscent of the teams that we're used to watching from these both of these groups.

I like to think that Joe Burrow, you know, remember a couple, you know, was it last week, couple weeks ago, that very quiet press conference where you could just tell he was seething with internal rage.

I like to think something inside him broke that day and he decided, okay, I'm just going to do the goddamn thing at this point.

And everybody sort of has been on his accord with that.

I think the Bengals, this is a real opportunity.

They have to seize this game, but they can't just win this game.

I think they have to assert themselves in a way that sort of sheds some of the issues and the reputation that they came into the season with.

They are going to have some issues against this Ravens offense, the Bengals defense.

Well, Trey Hendrickson is dealing with a neck and a back injury.

That could be kind of a big issue.

He's the only player consistently getting pressure for them along that front.

And the Bengals have also allowed 17 rushing touchdowns and 4.7 yards per carry.

The Ravens run offense is absolutely coming to life with this brilliance with Derrick Henry, 30 years old, and he's number two in EPA per rush right now.

I don't barely remember what I was doing two years ago at age 30, but it wasn't breaking tackles and running downfield at 21 miles per hour.

I know you guys love that.

And

it's astounding.

And I think that this is an epic, could again be an epic disaster for the Bengals defense.

But I have no doubt that Joe Burrow is going to try to go like in full darkness mode again and try to carry this team the way that he's kind of had to the last couple weeks.

Yeah, let's stick a pin in the burrow of all this for a little later in the show.

One other note about the offensive line or the offense in general of the Bengals.

Their offensive line is playing well now, too.

Just

five pressures on Burrow in week four, in addition to the running game working and obviously now the passing game heating up.

So you're right.

You have a great Baltimore, a team that's got to be flying high, coming off their primetime win.

But it is Spangles season now.

Up next, Michael Sean Dugar, what's the game you can't wait to watch?

Yeah, game I can't wait to watch this week.

Buffalo at Houston.

Oh, yeah.

In the early window as well.

Love a good early window game with you there, Dan.

Also, because those are 10 a.m.

here in Seattle.

So you just basically, you damn near just wake up to football.

Have a Bloody Mary and watch some pigskin.

What's wrong with that?

I don't know about the Bloody Mary part, but you know, just...

Nah, you put a big piece of celery in there, maybe a little bacon if you're feeling frisky.

Pickle.

And you just hammer it, throw a pickle in there.

Who gives a shit?

Just throw everything in there.

Throw a tire in there.

Suck it up.

I have intentionally never had Bloody Mary.

It just looks super unappealing.

I just can't.

Put half a bottle of Tabasco sauce in there and like, come on, let's go.

No, I just can't.

I look at people who drink those and I'm like,

I just cannot, cannot do it.

Are you judging them because they're drinking in the morning or because of the actual contents of the drink and the the visual it presents?

Oh, yeah.

No, I spent way too much time living in Pullman, Washington to judge anyone for drinking in the morning.

It is the choice.

Yeah, go kooks.

I have several hats I could put on backwards here next to me.

But yeah, I don't judge anyone for drinking in the morning.

It is the, yes, the choice of the drink.

I watch it and I'm just like, yo, that's not, that looks super unabashed.

It's a feisty drink.

It's aggressive.

That's it.

Throw some glass chunks in there.

As long as there's Tito's, I'm after it.

You are missing out.

I'll just let you know.

On the drinking in the morning part and also the Bloody Merry part.

No,

the morning, like the I was I was drinking, I think, a half gallon of something in 2013 when we, the Koogs, lost the New Mexico Bowl to Colorado State almost over 10 years ago.

We blew a 14-point lead in the final two minutes because Mike Leach can't count or couldn't count or whatever.

So, yeah, I've been there.

I get it.

I'm not there anymore.

Our games are actually actually

out of there now.

But I understand that part, I don't judge.

You had a long week.

It's okay.

It's okay.

All right.

Let's get to the game.

Sorry.

Yes.

Bills at the Texans.

I really think, oh, speaking of like MVP stuff, like CJ Stroud could do himself a lot of favors with a big performance in this game.

It has this, there's, there's several quietly like receiver cornerback matchups on this slate of games that are like really, really, really good.

The London game that we'll talk about next has like some really good ones as well.

This one, I got to make sure I get his name right because I've misspelled it when I was typing.

Is it Christian Benford

for the Bills?

Where is the worst cornerback number in the league by far?

Not close.

It's like 47.

Yuck.

But he is strapping up.

And Nico Collins is on a tear for the Texans.

Like that right there.

I don't know how often they'll go mano y mano.

The bills defense doesn't seem to do a ton of that, or they haven't had to thus far.

But man, that's going to be an outstanding matchup.

We already know this is going to be a great cornerback matchup or excuse me, quarterback matchup with Josh and CJ.

And then, of course, you got a good old revenge game, which I like.

Stefan Diggs, you know, playing against the Bills.

But I love this.

I think this could be, if everyone's down on the Chiefs, you know, I'm not.

But you get a little AFC championship preview right here between these two teams.

Two good coordinators on each side, like offense with the Texans.

Slowick's been really good.

And then with the defense for the Bills, they've been nails.

Like, this is,

I usually pull up, like, I usually leave my house at like 10 a.m.

to go to the stadium to watch Seahawks games.

I might just pull up that kickoff to Lumen Field on Sunday and spend as much time as I can watching this one.

Cause I think this is like good on good, maybe even the best game of the week, honestly, for a lot of reasons.

But really, it comes down to the two quarterbacks who I think there's like some MVP stuff on the line for whoever balls out.

And I don't know if you guys saw the Jeremy Fowler profile with free ESBN.

Jeremy, who does great work.

We're going to break work at some point.

You know, he did

a whole thing on the breakup of Diggs and Buffalo.

And they couldn't get anybody with the Bills to talk.

Could not get Stephon Diggs to talk.

Nobody wants to talk about it.

And then everyone wants to say, like, Josh Allen didn't mean what he meant when he said what he said last week.

I think, absolutely, this is a great revenge game because I think Stefan Diggs is going to really want to stick it to the Bills, who I think he thought marginalized him near the end.

And

that will be interesting too.

Jordan, I can't tell you what's going on on the sideline in Houston, but one thing that I think war on Buffalo, war on Josh Allen, war on the coordinators there was Diggs wanting to get the targets, wanting the ball.

And, you know, that better be a big part of the game plan in Houston for Diggs.

Otherwise, he's going to let you you know on the sideline.

That could be a distraction.

Yeah, I don't know.

I just think that

it's so new still with him in Houston.

I don't know that this game necessarily would be the one where I'd expect maybe some of that.

That was obviously a buildup.

It very clearly looked like a buildup of several, maybe different things or several situations as time passed.

And it's sort of been the pattern with him at previous teams, sort of late in the tenure there or deep into the tenure there.

But it is interesting.

I think that especially because Nico Collins is playing, he's leading the league right now and very quietly doing so.

And I think he's going to draw so much attention.

This is, you know, Buffalo is mostly a zoning defense, but they are going to try to think of some different ways to, you know, to bracket him, to put the safety help over.

And that does give Stephon Diggs some huge opportunities.

And I kind of, I'm very interested.

I think that the Bills,

it might be that the biggest statement we see about public statement that we get from anybody about this situation is specifically how they decide to defend Stephon Diggs.

I mean, these play callers, these game planners, these coordinators, they tell you a lot about what's going on inside their buildings or in other what they think of other buildings by the way that they design plans around top players.

And I think that that's one of these hard-on-the-sleeve games where we're going to kind of see more than we hear them make comments or non-comments or whatever.

We're actually going to see what the Bills thought of Stephon Diggs by the way that they defend him.

I mean, there's just no question that it's different, though, because in Buffalo, Diggs was the clear number one that everyone's planning around.

That's not the case in Houston.

Nico Collins is a lead-leading star.

I think, you know, there's a couple injuries in this game that bear a lot of weight.

Like Von Miller, who, you know, after a season or two of not being Von Miller, was a big reason that this defense was succeeding in winning matchups.

He's gone.

He's suspended.

He's out.

Khalil Shakir, who's been a big part of their passing offense, is banged up right now.

I think it matters if Joe Mixon plays.

It sounds like there's a chance that could happen.

Their best game when they looked dominant was Mixon in week one against Indianapolis, where they ran the ball with such authority.

And I thought that was a big boost to C.J.

Stroud.

This is a team, the Texans, and I picked them to go to the Super Bowl, but they have one win.

one score wins over the Colts, the Bears, and the Jaguars.

And I look at that Jaguars game, and it was too close for comfort.

If you want to be an AFC championship type team, they were wiped out by the Vikings.

They completely lost that matchup from a coaching perspective.

C.J.

Stroud struggled.

This is an acid test because either team that loses this, I think you have a lot of explaining to do.

If in six days the Bills go from what happened against Baltimore and they stumble here in Houston, you are in a place where you have a lot of explaining to do to everyone.

And it's not just about whether or not Josh Allen gets along with last year's wide receiver.

It's what's happening right now.

It's a major opportunity for whoever wins it too.

You sit in the driver's seat as Kansas City's number one challenger alongside Baltimore.

Mark, I love that you brought up the point about Khalil Shakir, too, because I've been screeching about how often Josh Allen has been throwing to the slot in the middle of the field right now.

He's leading the league there in success rate, and that's been his number one guy in that regard.

And I think that Houston's going to try to get him to throw to the perimeter.

And I think on the Houston side of things, everybody...

who,

and I picked Houston to be in the Super Bowl this year, whether they win it or not, I don't know, but I picked Houston to be in the Super Bowl.

And I think that the knock on them, because they were sort of a darling at a certain point in this preseason, the knock on them was, oh, they haven't, you know, they haven't really faced true adversity yet.

They haven't really had to show you what their true problem solving once they've been on tape for a full season looks like.

And you're seeing it right now.

I think that's great that C.J.

Stroud had a loss like that to Brian Flores, who's the ultimate quarterback killer.

Like, I think that it's great that they have a matchup like this right off of a bit of a a shaky win.

I think that this is really going to show, is this team built to really, truly contend the way that a lot of us hope they are and a lot of us think they could be?

But this adverse, this is what it, this is what the adversity that everybody was talking about they needed that's happening right now.

Yes, and I thought that what happened with Buffalo on Sunday night felt like a buzzsaw game in Baltimore.

So I personally, I was like, all right, I'll give them a little bit of pass here.

But to your point, Mark, if they stumble against the Texans, you're kind of back in that muck about what are the bills.

And just for a little more clarity, the von Miller suspension, four games without pay for violating the NFL's personal conduct policy.

The league announced that on Tuesday.

The suspension appears to stem from allegations that Miller assaulted his pregnant girlfriend in November 2023.

So, ugly situation there for Miller, and it comes back to take him off the field.

All right, let us take a break.

And when we return, one more game we can't wait to watch, and then we take a dip.

Keep those headphones in, Jordan.

Man, we just got finished talking Bills, Texans.

I'm really looking forward to that game, and I think it's going to be a great one.

I'm also looking forward to building a pick'em entry on Underdog.

Might have to get Money Mike's help with that.

Playing on Underdog is super easy.

Simply choose higher or lower on player projections, and you can win up to 1,000 times your entry.

So download and play on the Underdog app, sign up with code HTC, that's us, and receive up to $1,000 in bonus cash for our U.S.

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All right, we're back.

Wait, do we have another money mic prop?

What was that, Mike?

You said during the break?

Yes, yeah, oh yeah.

Money mic, bills minus one.

I love that this week.

I absolutely love it.

Mostly because I don't think the Texans can exploit the Bills' biggest weakness, which is the run run defense cam makers and my man with the Nigerian last name I don't think that's enough for them to get it done give me Josh Allen MVP leader in the bills minus one look it he's an industry

all right the game I cannot wait to watch

let's go to London Ah, jolly old England.

It's really the home away from home for Heath to call.

God save the king.

God save the New York Jets.

Jets

and God don't have a great relationship, and maybe one day they could patch things up.

Minnesota Vikings are a very interesting opponent for the Jets coming off the drama of just a grisly loss at home.

to the Denver Broncos in week four.

And now you go across the pond and you get an undefeated Vikings team, a Vikings team that's favored in this game, by the way, by two and a half.

And you also obviously have the background of Sam Darnold, who is

in the midst of an incredible comeback player of the year type season, maybe even MVP, the Queen Bee, bitch.

Type season.

Darnold Hive, no one is allowed in entry.

And Mike, that's you as well.

You know, I saw you peeking in.

You had your chance and you didn't come in.

And now it's it's too late.

May that be a lesson, Mike, about being slow to the draw.

About hives in general, you know?

Yeah, I wanted to come in, but you know what?

I'm okay on the outside.

I think this game will justify that.

This is definitely their toughest, the toughest for the passing game for Sam and them.

Every time I watch Sauce Reed, it's like my nickname for them.

I just feel so great about what they're able to do.

It reminds me of what the old Seahawks teams of Brandon Browner and Richard Sherman, as physical as they were, you know, as tough as they were, trash talkie, particularly in DJ Reed's case.

Oh, yeah.

No, I love it.

We'll see.

We'll see how the hive feels after a little trip across the pond to face Sauce Reed.

And that is, I'm glad that, you know, because everyone talks about Sauce Gardner as the man, and he is obviously a tremendous cornerback, but DJ Reid is such an important part of their defense as well.

And yeah, we'll see.

I think the thing about Darnold also, he threw three touchdown passes, obviously, last week in the first half.

I didn't think it was his best game of the year.

In fact, if you, you know, when I went back and watched it, Tava, I said, ah, this is actually probably his worst game so far.

And now he's going to be up against the defense in the Jets that do have a great back end.

So, yes, some of those balls that were up for grabs that Darnold threw might end up hurting him in a way they didn't last week against the Packers.

However, I'll point out that the Jets' pass rush has been very hot and cold this year.

You've had Will McDonald, who's jumped out, and, you know, he had some flashy numbers in terms of sacks, and that's been a good development.

But with Jermaine Johnson out of the picture there, in addition to losing other players in the offseason, John Franken Myers, who played very well against the Jets for the Broncos last week,

this has become an issue on their defense, and

the failure to get a consistent pass rush, I think, is something that I really worry about as a Jets fan.

So, you know, this is, and we'll get get into the drama around the Jets and players not connected to the Jets in a moment.

But for this game particularly, Mark, I think that

the next test now for the Vikings is, yes, a better Jets defense, but one that I think Darnold can exploit with a lot of, obviously, personal,

personal reasons why he wants to thrive against the team that drafted him and failed him.

Well, I think so.

I think, you know, for me, this is a coaching game.

And it feels that way every week with the Vikings.

Oh, don't say that.

Well, that's my concern, is because it's Robert Sala versus Kevin O'Connell.

Okay, but then from another angle, it's Brian Flores versus Nathaniel Hackett.

And

I see very little coming from the New York Jets on offense.

And last week, I know it was terrible weather,

but that's fine.

Outside of that, that works its way out of problems.

And one of the most concerning things that

I watched last week was, and it's happened a couple times, is just seeing Aaron Rodgers.

taking some of the same kind of bone-crushing, vicious shots that he would have taken last year had he survived.

And so you've got to find a way out of that.

You've got to get your star wide receiver and your star running back going.

And like it is on, it's on scheming.

It's on coaching.

You're traveling to a distant land to take on a team that really looks like a Super Bowl-type team in the Vikings, and it's their defense.

They lead, the Vikings' defense leads the NFL and EPA per drive, in sacks, in pressures, and hits.

And I just don't love the matchup for New York.

It's going to take their best effort on offense, and it's going to take something we haven't really seen.

They have lost to Bo Nix and they, come on, they've lost to Bo Nicks and they've like a week ago, I cannot believe that happened.

And there's something jetsy about it too and I'm not trying to pile on them, but like they two years ago lost to Geno Smith.

They lost to Joe Flacco last year.

It feels too poetic that would be Sam Darnold this year.

But coming up after this game, they've got the Vikings, the Bills, the Steelers, the Patriots, and then the Texans.

So if New York does not take care of business here, it's a world where it could become a very massively dangerous situation for everyone involved because I don't feel like this is a team that's completely unified, and it's quarterback and head coach to begin.

And by the way, been there, done that.

We've already lost to Sam Darnold in his first game as a Panthers.

So we checked that box already back in week one, a few years ago.

We handle our business on that side of things.

Fair point.

Yeah, the Jets feel like they're teetering.

They feel like a team that's teetering.

And you have

Garrett Wilson going on the radio and saying that his router isn't developed, which is as direct a shot as you can get at your offensive coordinator without just saying Nathaniel Hackett sucks.

And then you have,

this was interesting.

And I think, and you heard Boomer aside, and Boomer, I love Boomer.

I named my dog after Boomer once upon a time.

But also, he's a New York radio guy.

So I don't know.

He said that he was watching the sideline and paying attention closely.

And he could tell because he's been in that situation in his own career when a quarterback.

doesn't respect his coach and how that could be destructive.

Well, here is a moment after that, the Denver Denver game, where Robert Sala during his press conference said we need to calm down maybe a little bit with the cadences coming from our quarterback because that might have explained some of the false starts and issues we've been having on our offensive line.

And this is how Rogers responded to that when the media made him aware.

The cadence specifically, Robert said, that might be something you guys have to dial back a little bit.

Is that something you think could potentially help the situation?

That's one way to do it.

The other way is

hold them accountable.

I mean, we haven't had an issue.

We've had one false start.

Morgan had one false start I believe until this.

So

you know it's been a weapon.

We use it every day in practice.

We don't, you know, we rarely have a false start and to have, I don't know, five today, it seemed like, four or five.

Yeah, that's, it seems like an outlier.

I don't know if we need to make mass changes based on,

you know, kind of an outlier game.

Yeah, and doesn't it almost appear, doesn't it seem, Jordan, a little bit like, so the head coach said that, but now here's the boss.

The actual boss is Aaron Rodgers, right?

And it's like they, the reporters report what the head coach is not really the top of the food change says.

And then Aaron Rodgers, the boss, is like, yeah, I don't believe what he just said.

And that we're not going to change anything we do.

You just get that energy coming off, dripping off every word.

Yeah.

So the thing that really makes you sort of shrivel up in your seat is when, right after the question is asked, the look on Aaron Rodgers' face, like

what his eyes do, where

you feel like second hand or or third or fifth hand because we're not even close to the situation, but you feel that cringe still because you're like, oh my God, I want to die.

Look at that look on his face.

And that's, to me, says everything.

That says everything.

That says, don't talk about my offense.

Stay on your side of the building.

Don't be in the media like talking about cadences, things that it's almost like sit, you know, kind of a sit-down kind of thing.

Also, don't touch me.

We saw that the previous week.

It was like that that look to me it just

oh that was the most withering i mean and it's just there for a moment and the withering nature of it just tells me everything i need to know yeah and baldy had a great breakdown uh mike of some of the offensive struggles and the um lack of communication uh on field chemistry still between you know garrett wilson uh and aaron rodgers and that's all set against the backdrop now the devante adams drama adams uh speaking of nebulose has a hamstring injury of some kind, which we're told is a very real injury.

But he's not playing for the Raiders.

He wants out.

The Raiders are cool with

him being moved in a trade ahead of the deadline, which is November 1st, I believe, or 2nd.

It's Nebulose.

And here is a tweet sent by Bert Breer, I believe, yesterday.

Teams involved, Devontae Adams market have become convinced the Raiders star is focused on engineering a trade to the Jets.

The Bills and Steelers are among those who've inquired with Vegas on Adams Perse sources.

There was some other reporting that popped up, Mike, that felt like total spin coming from the Raiders side, that the Raiders, yes, it might seem like it's going one way, but the Raiders will not move Adams unless it's for a deal that they love, that makes sense for them.

But it's like, this feels like a player that's...

going to have the power to engineer and make this happen.

And we'll just add another element of uncertainty.

Obviously, a talented player.

But if that happens with the Jets, it will be like, I mean, has there ever been a more all-in team?

Now you're taking on this guy that's become somewhat of a malcontent on his current roster.

Yeah, the Devontae Adams thing has become a great source war, you know, for people who care about that on the social media.

From the Cowboys side, in particular, it's been very interesting.

Basically, just have everyone connected to them, just yelling at everyone.

No, the Cowboys do not want Devontae Adams.

Stop asking.

It's like, all right, why are you yelling, dude?

It's yeah, why would they want a good player?

You know, like, they don't do that.

They don't play that.

They don't do that.

They didn't need Derrick Henry either.

Yeah, it's a very, very weird source thing.

I'm with you, Dan.

This is no shade to anyone who has reported it.

I'm sure that, you know, I understand the business.

You do it, you report what you're told.

It's just like, hey, yeah, Devontae's hamstring is very real.

Okay, cool.

I mean, would you tell us if it wasn't?

You know,

would anyone tell you if it wasn't?

I am of the impression that the thing that will heal Devontae's hamstring injury is a flight to New York.

I feel like he'll be fine by the time he lands.

That's just a hunch on my part, you know, just throwing that out there.

But they could really use him like bad.

Their offense is Brees.

It's the other running back, zero, and it's Garrett Wilson.

Yeah, Allen, thank you.

And it's Garrett Wilson when he's not playing like a really good corner.

You know, Patrick Sertan just had him in shackles in that game.

I watched a lot of that.

Sertan's playing some of the best ball in the league right now on either side of the ball, by the way.

But Dan, I am still with your JETS Jets.

I'm still a believer.

You're right.

I think they're going to lose this week just because Brian Flores versus Nathaniel Hackett.

Brian Flores versus Nathaniel Hackett might be the biggest coordinator mismatch of the week.

I'd have to give that a little bit more thought, but I feel pretty confident in that currently, that that's probably the biggest mismatch by far this week.

So I think he gets his ass kicked, but the Jets ultimately will figure it out because as we've seen, Brian Flores is kind of the outlier coordinator for offenses.

You can look at any team schedule and see, oh, when did you play the Vikings?

Oh, right there.

The game where you didn't score any points, right?

So, but I do believe, I think they're going to get Devontae.

I think it just makes too much sense.

And to your point, I think Devontae will just damn near force his way there.

And I think once he gets there, it's one of those situations where they don't need, usually you need some like time for chemistry to build and all that.

Aaron and Devontae can hit the ground running as well as any quarterback in receiver pairing in the league.

I think it will take them like five days to look like what C.J.

Stroud and Nico Collins look right now.

So long term, not too worried about the Jets as long as they know Aaron Rodgers is in charge and Robert Sala is not.

So as long as that's established and they get Devontae Adams, I think they can be fine once they get back from London.

You could see the timeline.

They get smoked here and then they trade for Adams on Tuesday and then that brings in a whole fresh good vibes.

And then they, I think, get the bills and we'll see what happens.

On the other side, before we move on, Jordan, you have a banger of a profile coming up in Vikings Land.

What do you got?

Thanks, Dan.

Yeah, I'm really excited about this one.

Been working on this since May.

It's a profile of Vikings head coach Kevin O'Connell.

And it is really, it's something that when you're reporting something like this, you can't talk about the things that you learn.

And you can't be, when you're on, you know, a show like this, for example, you can allude to things that you firmly believe in, like Sam Darnold and Kevin O'Connell's relationship, for example.

But you can't like over, this is how, because you're in the middle of reporting out this profile and the story.

And I just have to say, the teaching progression, the development, the dynamic, it it is almost like inclusive to his hiring of Brian Flores.

Who, you know, most offensive coaches want to hire someone who fully just complements their side of the ball.

Like, we're going to play this style of defense so that we can assert as maximum as possible on offense.

If you are an offensive, one of these like gurus that we're talking about here, and we've seen Sean McVay do this a couple of times at this point.

We've seen Matt LaFleur do this when he had Joe Barry, you know, but Kevin O'Connell went out and hired Brian Flores because he wanted his quarterbacks tortured, like

in the most healthy way that I could possibly describe.

And you see the proof of what this is.

Sam Darnold has a perfect passer rating against the Blitz right now.

And he's facing this defense every single day in practice, building up a tolerance to these types of developing in a much more holistic way than he ever, I think, really got a chance to before.

And Kevin, who was a former quarterback, who was a journeyman, whose career fizzled out but realized hey if i sit back and i really learn from some of the guys i'm in rooms with matt stafford tom brady like these these i can really turn this into something and he has been waiting to build out this type of programming for a quarterback for so long and it's it's not just that it was sam that it's sam darnold who he believed in by the way the first time we talked was way back in the spring and he was adamant that sam was going to have a great year and it's not just sam darnold though because this plan is also in place for jj mccarthy he understands what it could be like to watch someone do this in real life before having to do it yourself.

And the injury didn't phase them as much as I think the outside probably thought that it would, because they already had the plan for JJ's development that's going to stay intact despite the injury.

And they believe in it, and they believe in both players.

I just think that

watching the Vikings right now, and

I've seen it up close, so that's part of the reason I know I'm biased on saying this a little bit, but we're kind of in this golden moment that we rarely get in football.

They could lose every other game after this, and they still have experienced this golden concoction of like redemption and aggression and freedom and ideas.

And like, this is a joyride that we don't get in football a lot.

And with everything that team has been through, with the tragedies that they experienced over the summer,

this is a team that is really together and they are,

they just, they, they believe in each other.

And that really starts with the head coach and Kevin O'Connell.

Well, I can't wait to read that.

I'm super pumped.

I'm happy about that team.

They're the team of Zeus TL.

So

I will be checking that out.

All right.

Moving on.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Oh, man.

So close.

We almost got her.

I was riding a high, and you just decided to shoot me right in the face as I was riding a high right there.

You know, someone tweeted at us

because I asked how far that individual, if it's not Justin, had fallen into the gravy

tub and like boat.

And

I forgot what the answer was.

So that's not very informative on this show.

But I think it was like three stories or something like that.

But judging by how long the person was screaming in midair.

Just to let you know.

Yeah, someone did the math on that.

That was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Mark, you want to to look up the math just to give the audience to take the suspense out?

I will do some research on that.

I think it was like 140 feet.

Yeah, it was something.

It was close to that.

Like, if I'm going to bring up that nugget, I should have had the actual factoid attached to it.

I get that.

That's how this works.

But, you know.

Well, Dan's the one with the journalism mug today.

So, you know, that's true.

The journal news.

It's how you know.

All right.

Into the gravy boat we go.

All right.

There's less games in the gravy boat this week because of the bye weeks, but that's not going to stop us from having some fun in here.

We'll start with Panthers.

Did you write that intro?

Did you just write that?

No, I just

off the dumbed it.

Yeah.

I really liked it.

I really liked it.

Thanks.

Let's have some fun.

Alrighty.

Panthers at Bears.

The Andy Dalton bump lasted exactly one game for Carolina, and now they all face a defense that does a really good job defending what Dalton has done best, which is the quick pass attempts.

Two-thirds of Dalton's passes have been defined as quick passes by next-gen stats, meaning the ball comes out in two and a half seconds or less.

Chicago has allowed the lowest completion percentage overexpected on quick passes this season.

Also, I'm officially on Waldron watch, which means I don't think Shane Waldron is necessarily good.

I'm really concerned about what's happening to DJ Moore's route tree.

If you look up like his charts, his route charts on next-gen stats compared to last year and this year, it's like, I don't know.

Is this the JSN effect?

Mike, I know you know a bit about the Shane Waldron deal with the receivers.

What's going on in Chicago?

What's going on in Chicago is what happened in Seattle.

They had a bunch of talent at the skill positions and it underperformed, you know, and the O-line wasn't very good and they lacked identity.

It's like all of the same things just picked up and went to Chicago.

It was very foreseeable.

I mentioned it.

JSN like awkwardly mentioned it during a Super Bowl interview, Radio Row type thing.

And yeah, now he's now he now Waldron watches a thing.

I got some homies in Chicago.

It's bad.

He's trending down near every game.

Can I ask you a question?

Because I know last week there was the reporting that Bears players went to Waldron and said we want tougher coaching.

And that included Caleb Williams.

But I know it's like an old boys club on some level, but it's like if we, if reporters are reporting and know what you know about Shane Waldron and people, fans can see it, why do you just get the same job somewhere else?

Like, why did the Bears staff decide to go get someone like this?

It just seems to happen all the time.

It's like you knew you were going to inherit this individual who brings these inherent problems to the offense.

Yeah, I think, I mean, I can't totally speak for the Bears, but I know one thing that they kind of fell in love with.

It seemed is the same thing that the Panthers liked about Canales was the work with the quarterback, which is like kind of an oversimplification a little bit.

Like Gino was him.

He was going to be him regardless.

You know, he was just, he's just a good quarterback.

Everyone just saw that on Monday night, too.

You know,

Baker never really sucked.

You know, like the reason he was out of Cleveland was a weird, funky situation, you know, like, and how much was Dave responsible for what happened with Baker in Tampa?

Clearly, not that much.

You're doing the same thing now.

Right.

So I feel like that was a big part of it, what Shane could do for Caleb.

And it also felt like, oh, the Bears, look at all these skill players.

Like, this is great.

Caleb's great.

DJ Moore, Keenan Allen, blah, blah.

And it's just like, nah, guys.

The same thing in Seattle.

you know, it just didn't, there's a reason it didn't work.

The Bears were also interviewing Zach Robinson for that job, who's the OC now in Atlanta.

I think it's very clear that they were

had blinkers on of pulling someone out of the Shanahan McVay

tree.

And there's just, there's a gap right now as other younger coaches start to develop in that system because they've been so flooded out, hired out of that system, the good coaches have, that now there's a gap between who's actually developing up in that system and ascending and who is actually is hireable and should be hired.

That's one among many theories and nuances I have, inclusive to the fact that you can fail sideways a shitload in this league, depending on who you know and

like who your friends are.

Just

for the other side of this debate.

If you look at certain metrics, they have made incremental progress week to week with Caleb Williams and the offense.

And you saw DeAndre Swift

getting him more involved and finding a way, especially in the passing game, give Caleb something, some easier plays.

He has seven catches in the game, so maybe they'll start to hit on something.

Also, Keenan Allen hasn't been healthy.

All that stuff is factored in.

And on the Panthers side, real quick here,

flash up a tweet there, Gravy.

This is from Steve Reed of the AP.

Andy Dalton said, at first, he didn't like the Red Rifle nickname, but grew to like it as the years passed.

And that all made me think, Ceci,

maybe, do you think he's ever heard the nickname we've used for him for 10 years, the Glowing Ginger Man?

And how would he feel about that one?

Is that better than the Red Rifle if he's not a big fan?

It was an upset and a happy one that that got through the edit desk at NFL.com about a decade ago.

So there's been a long standing tradition of us mentioning him through your, you created that through the glowing ginger man.

I mean, the glowing ginger man sort of seems like you have magical or supernatural powers of some sort.

So I would think that

he's got kids.

He's got a wife, I believe.

Someone told someone in his nest, in his hive, that, you know, this is this other name, and it maybe is more powerful than Red Rifle, if you really think about it.

But

I don't have a source on the ground on that one.

It's just speculation on my part.

Shaq Thompson is out.

That sucks for the Panthers, who seem to be missing pieces or losing pieces at a rate in addition to their other challenges.

He suffered a torn Achilles, so they have to go on without Shaq.

That sucks.

All right, next up in the gravy boat.

All right, next up.

Dolphins at Patriots.

Both of these teams come into this game searching for answers, each on their own three-game losing streak.

Ouch.

Two big injury notes for this one.

Dolphins pass rusher Jalen Phillips out for the season with a knee injury.

He was coming back from that torn Achilles, and I don't know if it's related, but sometimes we see the other compensation, other leg injuries.

Patriots center David Andrews, also out for the season.

Gerard Mayo is adamant that Jacoby Brissette is the starting quarterback of the Patriots.

But he also said earlier this week, he reserves the right to change his mind about anything at any time.

Well, yes, that's the head coach.

He also said he's considering bumping up into Antonio Gibson's role in light of Ramondre Stevenson's fumbles.

He's fumbled in every game so far this season.

Remember the old days of Patriots running backs fumbling like one time and then never seeing the field again?

Good times.

Well, you know what?

He would have been on the bench two games ago with Belichick, so I guess it just took a couple extra games in this case.

We'll see.

I mean, he's such a good running back, too.

I really like Stevenson, but if you put it on the ground, it's a problem.

And I would guess you'll see a timeshare.

But if Stevenson can show that that is just a temporary thing, he'll be okay.

Losing the center is bad because they need that running game.

You need the dude in the pivot mark.

You played the pivot, I believe, at some point on an offensive line.

Such a key part.

I don't care about the quarterback situation that much right now with the Patriots because it's going to sort itself out sooner rather than later.

I do care about the Dolphins and what is happening there.

Tyreek Hill, there's some bubbling going on around Tyreek Hill and potential frustrations.

Mike McDaniel has not been able to find a way with these quarterbacks.

Here is McDaniel

this week after another really depressing offensive outing in week four.

So

there's

a multitude of

contributors to it, I believe, but I have to check the tape out.

Bottom line is it doesn't matter what we're doing behind the scenes

on the field that's not even close to good enough.

So

you just have to go back to the drawing board and assess very critically.

Here's my question, Jordan.

Like, all right, I agree.

You've got to make changes.

You can't move the football with Tua on the sidelines, but what are you going to do?

Like, what can they do?

Yeah, I've really enjoyed a lot of the debate points and conversation you two have had about the Dolphins as they've started to spiral downhill.

Inclusive to needing to get a veteran quarterback, needing to have had one already.

That is 100% the truth, but there's another truth at work here with this offense, and that is something I brought up before in that the specific timing of every single thing that they do from all of the pre-snap movement and the way that they align formations and the steps in Tua's drop that pair and coordinate with not only different motions, but also with different types of routes and different combinations of things,

the cadences, all of those things are 100% predicated on Tua.

And you could also make a very fair, clean argument about the fact that you shouldn't be so dependent on a player who has the injury history that he's had.

But

that is absolutely how this offense works.

And so you can't just plug somebody else in and run it.

So now you're going to have to start changing things.

Well, if you're in season and

you have to change your offense to that dramatic of a level because everything that was predicated on this other player doesn't work because you don't have that repetition with the skill players or with the offensive linemen.

You're also game planning week by week.

So that's what you're watching right now in Miami.

You're watching a time management issue where you don't have the time in a week to completely overhaul your offense while also game planning for your opponent.

And

they've dug this.

And the thing with Tua is so unfortunate, obviously, but they have built themselves like this.

And this is what happens.

It's a really hard lesson to learn.

This is 2022 Rams had to learn this as well.

And I think that that is where you start to see you learn some really hard lessons as a coach because all of this can be true at once.

It doesn't make it okay.

Next.

Next game, Colts at Jags.

The Jaguars are the last team in the league without a win.

The folks in the desert think that that changes this week as Jacksonville is favored at home against their division rival Colts.

That's very good for Doug Peterson and Trevor Lawrence, who badly need a win.

However, they can get one.

On the other side, Shane Steichen says Anthony Richardson's hip is feeling, quote, much better and that, quote, the plan is for him to play on Sunday.

But we'll see if it's Richardson or Flacco.

One note here, the Colts have had trouble defending the deep ball this season.

Trevor Lawrence has attempted downfield throws at the fourth highest rate.

Is this the week the Jags finally get on track with their $275 million quarterback?

Mark.

Well, I like the matchup against the Colts defense that is, I think, bottom three in the league in terms of failing on third down.

But we've talked about this with Lawrence.

Like he's attempting these downfield throws, but whether it's Christian Kirk or whether it's

whether it's the rookie, it's like,

you're not Brian Thomas.

You're not connecting with these guys.

Like there was just clear miscommunication a week ago.

And Lawrence always.

Outside of that one season ending streak where he was just pristine, like we've seen this from Trevor Lawrence for years, that there just seems to be moments in games where the pass does not go where you want on any level.

It's worse now.

He's devolved under this coaching staff.

And I know that Doug Peterson can say he's not losing the team.

I think if you have to say that,

you've lost the team.

Like, we know that.

And I think there is...

The same way that there's footage of Tyreek Hill storming up and down the sideline on the Dolphins last week behind

a coaching staff that looks flustered.

Then on top of it, you've got Trevor Lawrence weeks in a row.

You know, there's people in the stands taking footage of him, furious, and coming close to his coach, like screaming and stuff.

And it's like the frustration level when it gets to this point, it's like four weeks.

It's about game planning and figuring a way out.

It's four weeks in a row of not figuring out what you're doing.

And so I don't just assume this is half Angelo.

Yeah, I think he would be.

I think everyone is like, I don't just give this game to Jacksonville on any level.

I think the Colts with Joe Flacco, you never know what will happen.

We'll see.

We'll see if Flacco plays or if it's Richardson.

But Flacco showed once again that

if he gets tapped, he will be ready.

Next.

Yeah, just real quick on that, my stance is Joe Flacco is better for the Colts to win right now than Anthony Richardson.

Now, obviously, for the long-term development of your young quarterback, you want him to play and get those reps.

But if the Colts are like trying to dig out of this, I mean, they're two and two.

It's not a hole, but to really get in the mix for the playoffs, like Joe Flacco is probably a better option.

Hey, Justin.

Justin, get back in that gravy ball.

All right, diving back in.

Raiders at Broncos.

We talked a lot about Devontae Adams already.

We said he's not expected to play this weekend either.

The quarterback play in this matchup between Gardner Minshew and Bo Nicks, it's either the most interesting part of this game or it's the most boring part of this game.

This matchup has the lowest over-under total of any game on the week five slate at just 35.5 points.

What say you guys?

Will we see five total touchdowns in this game?

What do you think, Mike?

Yeah, this game should be on NBA League pass, I think, this week.

I might have to be forced.

Oh, this is at the same time as the Seahawks game.

Good.

I won't.

You guys will have to tell me what happens in this one.

We got you.

Yeah.

And that's, I'm a Closet Raiders fan, too.

And this is just such bad ball over there.

I really hope they don't lose.

I think they should win against Denver with Bo Nicks, who I'm not even sure can complete a forward pass.

I don't even know if he did against the Jets.

Maybe.

I don't know if he did.

He did throw the go-ahead touchdown pass to Carlin Sutton.

It was one good drive.

They ran the ball better in the second half, which set up their success.

But yeah, you didn't see much from Knicks at all.

No,

that's bad ball.

Yeah, I will actively avoid watching that.

I think, like I said, I think

the Raiders should win.

They still have good pieces without Devontae Adams at receiver.

I like Tucker.

I like Myers.

I don't like their run game, but you guys know me.

Love the quarterback.

And so I'm picking the team with the better quarterback.

Go Cougs.

Yes, Goku.

Shout out to Gardner Minchie.

Yeah, this is Yucky Black.

Everything I know about college football is just like Money Mike's past.

The Cougars exist.

Yeah.

Jordan, your thoughts.

Okay.

You guys want to hear a not fun but interesting stat?

So only Josh Rosen and David Carr have had a worse EPA per drop back after four starts than Bo Nick's currently has.

That's.

Ooh.

What were those names again?

Josh Rosen and who?

David Carr.

Oh.

Well, his EPA per dropback was terrible because he got sacked on every dropback.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But But big, big, just, we want to talk about the bottom of the gravy boat.

That's where that's what's going on.

I knew you wanted to talk about the bottom of the gravy boat.

Up next, Justin.

Next, Cardinals at 49ers.

I've got to say, I am pretty underwhelmed by what the Cardinals have done over the last two weeks.

Like, this team has a negative point differential on the season, despite a 41-10 win over the Rams.

They've not been good in their other three games.

The offense failed them at home against Detroit.

The defense failed them at home against Washington.

Now they go on the road to Santa Clara as the biggest underdogs of any team on the week five slate.

The 49ers got some key players back last week, George Kittle, Debo Samuel, and have their sights set on a winning streak at home this weekend.

And now a statement from Mark Sessler on the Arizona Cardinals.

Yeah, I wrote this in my online football journal at 2.44 a.m.

before this day.

And my pet team, the Arizona Cardinals, are no different to me than a kitty cat that's gone missing.

You know, and not a street cat, but one of those cats that spends its days and nights slumbering on a hill of thick blankets, on beautiful rugs, comforters that are heated.

And now she's gone.

Did she slip out the door?

Husband and wife are at each other over it.

Husband being blamed big time.

Of course it's his fault.

We know how that works.

That's the Cardinals right now.

A lot of problems.

Cart's got a theme going today, I think.

There's a theme.

We got a hat-trick.

We got a hat-trick.

Okay.

Yeah, this isn't supposed to happen, right?

Wasn't this, wasn't the, weren't the Cardinals supposed to be fun to watch this year?

What happened to that whole thing?

Yeah, they were, though, initially.

They were for one half.

They had, you know, the Rams game.

They played a good half against the Bills, but the rest of it's been total shit.

Yeah, I'm really disappointed in the Cardinals.

You guys know, and I have to, you know, sort of atone here, I think, probably, because I had so much belief in structurally what they're capable of doing, what they are built to do, quite literally.

I mean, getting Trey McBride, who's progressing through the protocol right now, will probably boost this offense in a big way.

But it's so feast or famine feeling.

Like it feels like either they look like this team that is ready to meet 2024 defenses where they're at and capitalize on all of this pass heavy defense that we're seeing right now with lighter defenders.

Or they're just, they just completely implode and fall apart.

Their defense lets them down.

Kyler Murray are like, will they, won't they?

Every single week with, is will they, won't they, every single week with Marvin Harrison Jr.

I mean, it's just, it's such a weird imbalance right now for a team that literally was built to be the most balanced offense in the modern NFL, and they're just not.

And I think that's a huge issue.

And I am disappointed in you, Arizona Cardinals.

Yeah.

And on the other side, the Niners got that rocking chair game against the Patriots last week.

Now we get to see against another opponent that is struggling.

So a nice setup for San Francisco.

Jordan Mason Mason had another big game last week.

He's done a great job in place of CMC taking a lot of pressure off Purdy.

And I want to see, when does Brandon Ayuk start to go?

When does he start to go?

At what point do we start to think there's something more than just he missed training camp because they have not been on the same page.

All right, up next.

All right, two more.

Packers at Rams next.

The Rams defense is struggling right now.

Cornerback Darius Williams to return this week.

That should help the pass defense, but they haven't been defending the pass well.

They have been struggling against the run, and while they are getting pressure, they are not converting those pressures into sacks.

And here come the Packers into town who just piled up 465 yards of offense against Brian Flores' defense last week.

Now, the one thing here, Love did not have his best game against the Blitz, against Brian Flores.

So I wonder if the Rams will try to rattle him that way.

What do you think, Jordan?

Yeah,

they've been blitzing their inside linebackers a little bit.

This secondary, and then Quentin Lake, who's like their slot safety star and then plays deep in their base package, like they have blitzed him a couple times.

There was one of the positive, net positive plays they made last week as a group was sack that should have given the Rams offense an opportunity to go down and score, but the punter completely changed that game

for the Bears.

This is a legendary performance.

You know, this is not, I mean, this is not a good team right now.

Yeah, they're missing a ton of people on the offensive side, but this defense, the players they've invested big money into that they rarely do in the offseason, in specifically these areas,

they're just not, they're not stepping up in the way that you would expect.

They're weak in every level at at least one area, and they're not playing with cohesiveness as a unit.

And then on the offensive side, they can't get the ball into the end zone despite the fact that they've gotten to the red zone 17 times, the second most of any team, only seven touchdowns on those drives.

That's number 28th in the NFL.

I mean, they can't, it's sort of a metaphor, like with the pressure rate not leading to sacks, the missed tackles, the

penalties, the explosive pass plays, and then on the other side, not converting at the end of these long drives.

This team can't finish.

They just can't.

I mean, I feel like you're really in that game specifically.

The Rams should have won that game.

Like that, the absence of Cup and Nakua in the red zone where they went one for four with two two turnovers.

It's just crushing.

And I know they have a buy coming up.

Maybe you get those guys back.

But that lack of playmakers has become undeniable around that team.

And I have a prediction for you.

Oh, go ahead.

So this is a Tony Romo game.

I think that Tony Romo is going to wax poetical as much as he can about Jared Verse.

I just feel like this is going to be a big, kind of late Sunday Jared Verse type of game where he creates some havoc.

I know the Rams are like a total seesaw, and we've all been on a seesaw, not recently, but like that's they're going to do it all year.

But I think this is going to be when you're up, if that's better on a seesaw than touching the ground.

I think it's better if you're up.

All right.

So Jared Vurse has a nice game.

Good prediction there.

I think the Packers are going to roll in this game.

I also think there's going to be 47,000 cheese heads at SoFi, which is going to be sending Matthew Stafford into silent counts and all that.

I mean, just...

Tough, tough sitch.

Jordan, get your earplugs out.

Yeah, they practice on their silent count.

count.

That's how bad it is at some of those home games.

All right.

One more dip in the boat.

All right.

Last game on the slate.

Giants.

Greasy dip.

Giants at Seahawks.

Malik Neighbors is trending towards missing this game with the concussion he suffered at the end of last week as he didn't practice on Wednesday.

And usually you got to go through a practice, see an independent neurologist, go through another practice.

So if he doesn't practice on Thursday, it's kind of wraps for his status this week.

Otherwise, you know, without him, the Giants are trending towards being completely unwatchable.

So this will be interesting.

Seattle's defense has been very good defending downfield passes, although, you know, last week's game against Detroit, notwithstanding, Daniel Jones, on the other hand, has thrown more interceptions than touchdowns on downfield throws dating back to the 2022 season without Malik Neighbors to bail out his quarterback.

I'm kind of interested to see how Brian Dayll tries to attack, and tries to move the ball at all on the Seahawks defense.

Mike, this is a perfect opponent for the Seahawks after, I thought, you know, a very tough primetime loss where I agree with you, Geno is balling out,

but the defense was just a mess.

What happened to that defense in that game?

Yeah, that was really uncharacteristic.

They just looked like they all just met.

You know, it's like when we play pickup flag football on Saturdays in Seattle, and then I gather up our team.

It was like, all right, you play corner, you play safety.

I don't even know everybody's name, and we're just trying to figure it out.

You know, that's what it looked like on Monday night football.

It's a Mike McDonald defense.

I wasn't expecting to see them

out the way they were.

They were missing a bunch of people.

Yeah, but the people who played bad weren't the backups, really.

Other than Travis Gibson, number 50, like he should probably not play anymore.

But everyone else was a regular, and it wasn't a bunch of rooks out there either.

It was all veterans, except for like one guy, their inside linebacker, Tyrese Knight.

That was really bad.

That was bad.

Bad, bad, bad.

Foreseeable bad a little bit.

Like, I thought the Lions could roll them.

Just because defending the middle of the field has been an issue for Seattle, even with the previous regime, this current regime.

I've seen it a lot in the division.

Jared Goff's been cooking them there, and I've, you know, I saw that happening again.

So, yeah, but I think this is

to go back to college football analogy.

I've been doing that a little bit.

Do it.

This feels like when Bama schedules LSU and then their next game is against Youngstown State or something.

You know,

this is that for the Seahawks.

Like, Detroit was the juggernaut, so to speak, at least, you know, for their defense.

And then this week, man, the Giants are just real stinky.

They can't run the ball very well.

Daniel Jones can't throw it very far.

He's throwing it kind of accurately, just not very far.

This should be a beatdown.

I think, honestly, looking at the afternoon schedule,

this could be just bad ball all around.

Some good quarterbacks on the schedule, Brock, Jordan Love, Geno Smith in that back end window.

But otherwise, I think we should be looking at four.

at least three ass whoopings, maybe, maybe four.

Get the rocking chairs out on the wraparound wraparound porch and some rocking chair games uh on the horizon uh in week five all right crawl out towel off and uh take a break you get back fearless predictions here's a towel everybody take one

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All right, we have previewed all of the games, and now it is time to check in on our Fearless Predictions battle.

Remember, a major trophy, a major award is heading to the winner of the Fearless Predictions for Heed the Call.

So after four weeks, where are we at?

Let's start with a Zuzer.

At least one starting quarterback loses his job for performance reasons ahead of week five.

Did not get this one.

You could hit me with a.

You could do that, Justin.

Okay.

I'll need to pop one of those and add it in post.

Nice, really.

Nice.

Okay.

All right.

So

I thought I had a chance, but all the coaches, a lot of, there are certain coaches that are just not accepting reality yet.

It will happen in time.

I'm looking at you, by the way, Gerard Mayo.

Let's go.

Michael Sean Dugar.

So I'm 2-2, so I'm okay.

If I get out of September at 500, that's a victory in Fearless Predictions.

Mike, at least two tight ends will have 100-plus yard receiving games this week.

What do we get?

we got zero

big doughnut yeah that was unfortunate i think i only got close with one it was travis kelcey yeah man the tight ends dude what a what a strange uh year it's been so far at that position group uh so mike falls to two and two but still tied for first place as we enter month two of the season the gravedigger at least 10 of the 16 games hit the over

Oh, he has that sound effect.

Yes, that's the only ding we get this week.

I'm the only one who got my prediction right.

Spoiler.

See, now you're also spoiling the people who don't know about the other two.

Yeah, but now how many games hit the over this week?

How many hit?

Exactly 10.

And I had to sweat this out because, so Cleveland, Vegas missed the total by half a point.

They had a missed extra point in that game that would have put it over.

Buffalo, Baltimore missed the total by one and a half points.

Tyler Bass missed a field goal in that game that would have put it over.

So we entered Monday night football, needing both games to go over for me to get to 10.

And if anyone actually watched the Titans Dolphins game, I know it was pretty boring.

Can you put the Rudy music underneath this?

That's

a real inspirational tale.

Go on.

The Titans-Dolphins game, it was like seven minutes left in the fourth quarter, and I still needed nine points.

And I even texted Dan and Mark.

I texted you guys like, man, if we can somehow get nine more points out of this game, I can hit the over because Seattle is going to be a little bit more detailed.

We got multiple texts about this development that was.

And now we're getting a whole story about it, too, on the show.

Yeah, Seattle-Detroit was like over in the first half.

That one was super easy.

But then that weird, the most insane play of the season, the botched botched on-site punt attempt that didn't land in the landing zone and put the ball at the Titans' 10-yard line.

I was like, hey, they actually just need a field goal and we're going to hit this over.

And then it's fourth and six, and they're still on the field with the offense.

And I'm like,

oh my God, is this actually going to happen or not?

Tony Pollard scores the touchdown on fourth and six.

And we did it.

We hit the over.

So yeah, it was your

team, your Titans, like running up the score so they could say, oh, we finally scored 30 points.

I mean, just disgraceful all around.

Yeah.

And we got job, though, buddy.

We did it.

Jordan Rodrigue, there will still be at least two no-win teams and two no-loss teams in the NFL after week four.

Where are we at on that?

Joe Flacco.

I did not factor the Flacco scenario.

That Flacco ain't no Fluco.

He ruined my chance for my first win.

Also, as Justin was sharing and sharing.

And sharing, I felt like the meme of

the girl at the baseball game, that meme where the guy is talking into her ear and gesturing

wildly as she stares with dead eyes into the distance.

That's what I felt like.

Yeah, Joe Flacco.

That's what you want to hear, Justin, about your broadcasting.

Tabby here.

Ruined my first.

I'm salty because he ruined my first chance at my first win.

I did not get this.

The Jaguars are the only.

I got the wins.

There are still multiple undefeated teams, but I did not get it.

I could rely on the Jaguars, could not rely on the Colts.

Finally, Mear, Sessler, the Browns benched Deshaun Watson.

We already hit that.

I mean, just the bad, it's non-competitive.

It's unserious.

And Mark is 0-4, like Jordan.

Well, hold on.

One thing.

I see how you spell my name here.

I get it.

It's funny for everyone.

But

you've paired that with my record,

which is a complete disaster and a car crash.

But also the fact that as a Browns fan, I'm actually dealing with Deshaun Watson in real life.

That was the time to to go down that road and start to poke fund in.

And I'm assuming, unless Justin went and did this on his own, which we've got other issues.

So someone's in trouble.

You're saying I was behind the spelling of your name there?

I absolutely was not.

All right, well, then I'll take this up with Justin at a separate time, but that's unpleasing to me.

All right, fearless predictions for week five.

I'll start.

Let's knock this out.

I am really hot on Joe Burrow in week five.

I think they're figuring it out.

I think it's Bengals season.

Here's a quote this week, Burrow on the matchup with the Ravens.

I'm going to have to play damn near perfect.

That's how I'm preparing.

So it's an exciting opportunity.

This guy loves it.

This guy's an animal,

and he wants to show the world that he's back.

The Bengals are back.

His wide receivers are back.

So 300 yards, three plus touchdowns, at least three touchdowns, and the Bengals beat the Ravens in week five.

Fearless.

Next.

Next.

Next.

I'll go.

Because it's a copycat league.

I think we saw it this last week, but I think this week we see two skilled players attempt touchdown passes and at least one is completed for a touchdown.

Love it.

So two attempts.

That's interesting because if you get a touchdown.

Oh, I'm aware, Dan.

I'm ready to be hurt again.

That's what makes it fearless, and that's why we love you.

J-Rod, does anyone call you J-Rod?

Against my wishes, yes.

Okay.

Good to know.

Good to know.

You shared your feelings, and now I will adjust as host.

Money, Mike Dugar.

Did we get two attempts last?

I know we got one.

Did we get a second attempt last week, too?

I can't remember.

Oh, on a trick play from a skill player.

I'm not sure.

But this

is what Diggs ran his in.

Well, yeah, Diggs ran for one.

On what was set up to be a pass.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I like that one.

I am going with, oh, damn, what do you have in front of me?

Oh, yeah.

I remember now.

There will be a game with at least

as many or more defensive and special teams touchdowns as there are offensive touchdowns.

At least one game where we go crazy in that way with the defense and special teams.

This has been a good thing.

So you go full sink.

It's written all over it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a few games.

You guys know me.

I go by the games.

There's a few possibilities here.

Patriots, Dolphins.

Yeah, it's going to get messy in the gravy boat is what you're saying.

So you got to find some of those morsels that have been just down there for you know hours and hours, dig them up, oh, yeah, yeah.

Honestly, the bottom of the gravy boat, the least the noise the guy makes, that also sounds a little bit like whatever happened when they took Mark's credit card to Jamaica.

Spot on, got him.

All right, uh, uh, finally, Mark, uh, Mark, trying to get in the competition, trying to get on the board.

What do you got?

I have that at least four

underdogs just win outright.

I'm not talking spread or anything.

Like, four underdogs just win outright.

Four dogs win.

What's the average this year on dogs winning?

Isn't that always happen?

I don't really care if it's always happening.

It's been really good this week.

Dogs have been really good this week.

Even the heavy ones have been winning straight up.

I don't have the number in front of me, but dogs have been

four dogs not just cover, win.

Outright wins for four underdogs.

I don't think I could just say cover.

That feels like I don't find this to be a very intriguing proposition.

I just think that.

I feel like you've lost your spirit.

You're like a horse that was broken.

Well, I'm harassed for my normal ways of doing this.

So I'm trying to get on the board.

I'm just getting it on your way.

Let's let him get a dub.

Let's let him get a dub.

That is fearless quote around it, but it's you went for it.

Justin, sorry.

Finally, Justin Graver.

All right, so I'm looking at the point spreads for the games this week.

There are only two spreads

that

are even close to a touchdown.

Seattle, six and a half point favorites, and San Francisco, seven-point favorites.

This is the lowest, highest spread we've had, like the lowest, highest spread.

Does that make sense?

That we've had this season.

I think we're going to have a couple blowouts on our hands.

I say two games or more finish with a final score.

The winning team wins by more than two touchdowns, 14-plus-point wins for at least two teams this week.

I thought you were going to say 20.

Doesn't 14 seem a little

bit 14 seems a little low.

Yeah, that's come on.

A little weak.

Am I getting a little bit of a teacher?

That's okay, Justin.

That's the road you want to go to.

Justin,

I mean,

you have to live with it.

It's a mirror check, but I would say plus 17, I'd feel like

three full touchdowns, 21 points.

Oh, we were going to give you something now.

I used to go tell Jessica that.

That's a good picker proud.

All right.

Now that's fearless.

That's a man.

That's a man in a chair.

All right.

Good stuff, everybody.

Thank you, of course, to Jordan and Mike for what you give us every Thursday, which is high-level analysis and fun.

Fun and analysis.

Finalysis.

And make sure on Sunday you come back for the flagship program where we recap every game that we just previewed.

And yes, if you want more hype around the week to come on Sunday, check out the Patreon, patreon.com/slash heed the call, where we will do our draft of the Sunday games.

That goes up Friday morning.

Thank you to everybody.

Until next time, Heed the Call.

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