Commanders-Bengals & Jaguars-Bills Recap + QB Change in the Desert?

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Speaker 33 the Heed the Call podcast

Speaker 33 would like to solve the puzzle. 7:30 8 Prime Time, Say Jack.

Speaker 33 It ain't.

Speaker 9 You know, Mark,

Speaker 15 back in 2011,

Speaker 34 our second year working together at the NFL, I remember writing a story on the website about Mike Shanahan, then the Washington head coach, who said that he would

Speaker 9 stake his reputation on Rex Grossman and John Beck as his quarterbacks.

Speaker 20 Here's the quote, I believe in him.

Speaker 27 And I've been doing this for a long time.

Speaker 19 And I put my reputation on these guys that they can play.

Speaker 18 It was a ludicrous statement, Mark, proven as such when Grossman and Beck went on to stink out the joint in that 5-11 season for the then Redskins.

Speaker 40 Humbled.

Speaker 35 Well, this is a Shanahan we're talking about.

Speaker 38 Definitely not humbled.

Speaker 42 But undeterred, Washington made a blockbuster trade the following spring and landed Heisman Trophy winner Robert Griffin the third with the second overall overall pick.

Speaker 27 RG3, of course, has a remarkable rookie season.

Speaker 43 Who could forget?

Speaker 45 I think maybe his first touchdown, that long bomb,

Speaker 15 that long touchdown run early in the season where he just got outside the edge and just shot down the sideline.

Speaker 28 He ended up throwing over 20 touchdown passes, ran for eight more, one offensive rookie of the year, even though it was Andrew Luck's rookie year two.

Speaker 3 And we know, Mark, how that ended up with RG3.

Speaker 28 He gets injured. Mike Shanahan shoulders some blame about the downfall of RG3's career, him even playing with an ACL injury that year and was never the same.

Speaker 25 And it's been wilderness ever since for the Washington football team, which makes tonight, Mark,

Speaker 48 so notable and potentially game-changing for that organization.

Speaker 6 What I love about this is that we didn't discuss this prior to the show, and I wrote a note that the last time that

Speaker 6 I watched a rookie quarterback kind of change my feeling about rookie quarterbacks and the league and specifically this team was RG3.

Speaker 6 And I recall the time on Thanksgiving where I got tagged with a Detroit Lions game where Nadamek and Sue stomped the groin of Matt Schaub.

Speaker 6 And then I ran to the airport to get on a plane, but during that airport stay, you know, you have a beer or two, I watched RG3

Speaker 6 light up the Dallas Cowboys.

Speaker 4 Well, I was covering that game.

Speaker 6 And that was the whole point that you were midday,

Speaker 6 you know, not stuck because we love doing what we do, but like you were

Speaker 26 on Thanksgiving, it's very much. You're kind of stuck.

Speaker 6 You're kind of stuck. And you were kind of stuck.
And I was like, I'm glad I'm not Dan right now. I'm like, we've, you know, we can feel that way back and forth.

Speaker 6 But like, the look on Jerry Jones's face recalled another night when I believe they played the Giants on Monday night football. And the Shanahans hit RG3.

Speaker 6 They hit him all training camp. You didn't know what was going to happen until I believe they played the Saints, if I'm not mistaken, in the opening game of his career.
And suddenly he was unleashed.

Speaker 6 And it was like, wait a minute, what is happening? This player is unleashed on us.

Speaker 6 They did not tell us what they were doing on offense.

Speaker 6 And that Monday night game that I point out, the Giants linebacker specifically had no idea what to do with the pistol, which was not an NFL thing.

Speaker 6 I know it's a Jordan thing now, but it was not an NFL thing then until it suddenly was. And he burst on the scene, beguiling defenses.

Speaker 6 And tonight does recall that that to some degree because what Jaden Daniels is doing, what he did tonight for a team that's been in the wilderness for so very, very long from ownership on down,

Speaker 6 was remarkable and it stands out as one of the biggest stories of the entire season.

Speaker 1 Hit the music, Justin.

Speaker 14 Yes, it was the game the Washington football fans have been waiting for.

Speaker 43 Yeah, for 12 years.

Speaker 34 Rookie Jaden Daniels, the number two overall pick.

Speaker 12 Yes, another number two overall pick for this franchise.

Speaker 18 Another bright shining hope throws for two touchdowns, ran for a score, 21 to 23 for 254 yards.

Speaker 52 And the commander shocked the Bengals.

Speaker 14 I mean, there's no other way around it.

Speaker 7 38 to 33.

Speaker 17 And yeah, Mark, Daniels is the story because, well, there's two big stories here.

Speaker 13 It's what the hell happened to the Cincinnati Bengals now 0-3

Speaker 35 and facing a lot of questions this week and a season that was supposed to be

Speaker 19 getting right after the frustrations of the Burrow injury year last year, but instead they're facing down the idea of being irrelevant before the leaves even change.

Speaker 18 But for the Commanders...

Speaker 28 The Daniels performance in this game, every time, every time they needed a big play, this kid was making big plays, and he's not doing it alone.

Speaker 19 And you got to give credit.

Speaker 36 And I know that's not something anybody expected to do this year ever again, but what Cliff Kingsbury did in this game, this offense did not punt.

Speaker 53 This offense was locked in, and when the game was on the line in the fourth quarter, and the Washington had a chance to either play it a little conservative and try to get another field goal and

Speaker 13 get the lead back to, I believe they they were up five, right?

Speaker 13 So get the lead back up to eight or go for the jugular.

Speaker 28 And what happens?

Speaker 29 Daniels drops back and drops it in the bucket, 27 yards

Speaker 56 to Terry McLaurin.

Speaker 1 Good to see you again, Terry, to ice the game.

Speaker 3 That was unbelievable.

Speaker 6 This is a quarterback that's 61 for 76 over two weeks or over three weeks and is 21 for 23 tonight. And

Speaker 6 Cliff Kingsbury, run out of the NFL to some degree, has done a good job coaching him. And in general, like Jaden Daniels, I feel that there's an energy around a lot of these rookie quarterbacks.

Speaker 6 And we've seen it where it's just the moment's too big. And you realize they need another 15 to 20 starts to get into a place where they can kind of be in their own skin.
He's already there.

Speaker 6 He's calm. There's an in-controlled demeanor to him.
And, you know, they went out last week against the Giants and author non-stop scoring drives. They were field goals, but he's producing points.

Speaker 6 And tonight they put up three touchdown drives in a row for the first time since 2015.

Speaker 6 He's got the arm. He's incredibly smart on third down.
He can use his legs.

Speaker 6 He beguiled Cincinnati to the point where their pass rush, which is one of their strengths with Trey Hendrickson, was nullified until late in the game.

Speaker 6 And he's putting the heat on a Bengals coaching staff with Lou Onarumo that on the Thursday show, and I wasn't wrong, said that this is a coach that can like find a way to match up with quarterbacks and shut them down.

Speaker 6 And they were completely outmatched tonight. And it's kind of crazy because if you,

Speaker 6 and we'll get to the Bengals, but they actually statistically were really, really efficient tonight.

Speaker 6 It just didn't look like it because of what Washington and Jaden Daniels were able to do drive after drive. They kept going for the throat.

Speaker 16 Yeah, and I think that's what really stood out to me.

Speaker 7 Obviously, the athleticism

Speaker 37 was next level.

Speaker 28 There was a moment in the game where Daniels on another kind of big play in the third quarter juked a linebacker out of his shoes on the way to the first down.

Speaker 19 And just in general, like going back to the game clinching touchdown to McLaurin, you know, that was on an otherwise sterling day for Cliff Kingsbury.

Speaker 18 That felt a little bit jumbled, the situation there where

Speaker 28 the play clock was winding down.

Speaker 22 There was obviously some miscommunications going on.

Speaker 46 And Daniels is the quarterback, as a rookie playing in his third game, you could easily imagine that leading to either a false start or the play clock expires.

Speaker 18 Instead, he gets things calmed down to not just get the playoff, but then throw just a beautiful rainbow touch pass exactly where it needs to be.

Speaker 36 So that type of poise is very unusual.

Speaker 22 So if you have, for a player with this little experience, so if you have a kid that is not afraid of the moment, a lot of people were watching it, and when you combine poise with the athleticism he has, and then sensing obviously

Speaker 29 a flair for the dramatic, we're cooking with something now, Washington.

Speaker 44 So, this is

Speaker 18 a really huge story now.

Speaker 61 And we just talked about it on the Sunday show,

Speaker 1 how Malik Neighbors had that big game for the Giants, and he's off to this great start.

Speaker 13 And maybe the offensive rookie of the year is not going to be a quarterback as it typically is.

Speaker 18 The gravedigger in our preseason predictions did go with Daniels.

Speaker 7 And Justin, I believe you cited his ability to run the football and accumulate stats that would really help him in this type of situation.

Speaker 28 But it might even go beyond compiling nice numbers.

Speaker 46 Like Washington could be a team if this guy's going to be a dog like this week after week.

Speaker 63 Yeah, I mentioned on the Sunday night recap that Malik Neighbors had likely overtaken Daniels as the favorite. And in fact, I looked up the odds after we taped.

Speaker 63 And instead of doing it while we were taping to have the most up-to-date information, I waited till after the show. But in fact, Neighbors did surpass Daniels as of this morning

Speaker 63 for the favorite. But right now, I'm looking at the odds, and Jaden Daniels is back at the top

Speaker 63 as the favorite. So I do think, like, the rushing yards, I mean, that was something I said because that's like what voters love to see a stuffed stat sheet.

Speaker 63 But if this Washington team can win eight or more games, then I feel like he's going to maybe lock up the award.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, it's now it's

Speaker 27 obviously he is in position to do that.

Speaker 28 And why don't we turn now, Mark, to the Cincinnati side of things where

Speaker 1 just an absolute disaster for this team at home in prime time.

Speaker 61 You get T.

Speaker 50 Higgins back.

Speaker 19 Jamar Chase and Burrow hook up for a long touchdown immediately to start the game.

Speaker 15 The celebration is on in Cincinnati.

Speaker 35 And for the defense to have the night that it had tonight, and Luanna Rumo and Zach Taylor, obviously shoulder blame, as do the players, of course.

Speaker 36 That is unbelievable to get beat in this spot and a harsh wake-up call for a team that considered itself a Super Bowl contender entering the year.

Speaker 6 It is.

Speaker 6 It's kind of, it's just these losses on these island games, and I know that it wasn't, there were multiple islands tonight, and we can get into that later, but to lose the way they did and to have a rookie kind of break out and shine is one of the worst losses for a fan base.

Speaker 6 Like I hate when that happens to my team. We know that feeling.
But this is an offense that scored on seven possessions, four touchdowns, two field goals, and there was a missed field goal.

Speaker 6 So they were in position to score.

Speaker 33 So neither team punted.

Speaker 6 There were no punts and no turnovers for the first time in a game since 1940. That stat is going wild, and now that's not breaking news at this point, but that's kind of insane.

Speaker 6 So it just does this, like it tells us that Joe Burrow isn't isn't done. The offense isn't done.
This was a bit of a car crash in a different way.

Speaker 6 I still think, I don't know why with the Bengals, it feels like the friend that has

Speaker 6 a major personal problem. And maybe I'm that friend to some people, but it's like they've got issues where you've got to kind of hold their hand and just assume that they'll get there at some point.

Speaker 6 And it's like, we keep telling each other, like the Bengals, they'll get there. Like tonight was another night where they're almost there, but they'll be there at some point.

Speaker 6 And they're very dangerous. And we love Joe Burrow.
And it's like,

Speaker 6 it wasn't on Joe Burrow tonight.

Speaker 6 I thought it was like the connection with Jamar Chase was extremely promising, but they are on offense a little bit of a, we're going to beat you with our star wide receiver and star quarterback.

Speaker 6 And if that doesn't work, uh-oh, right? Like, it's kind of got to be that. And T.

Speaker 6 Higgins is back in the mix to some degree, but it's like, if that's not working, they're not the Chiefs and they're not these other teams that kind of, even the Bills tonight, we'll get to it, like, find a way to beat you in so many different fashions.

Speaker 6 Like, they do not. They're going to beat you through the air with their star players.

Speaker 6 They were competitive on offense, but it's to me the defense is a concern.

Speaker 4 I mean, they were more than competitive.

Speaker 29 The Bengals outgained Washington by 80 yards.

Speaker 3 They had 1.1 more yards per play.

Speaker 18 They averaged 6.2 yards per carry. They did not turn the ball over, as we said, passed for 312 yards, but none of it mattered because the defense was that bad.

Speaker 17 I mean, the defense had to make one goddamn stop in this game in the second half and could not do it, could not get off the field.

Speaker 19 So, you know, every team has these bad days.

Speaker 32 Every defense has a bad day, and you kind of live with it, and they're not as bad as they look tonight.

Speaker 28 But when you start 0-2, the level of urgency is through the roof.

Speaker 25 And for the defense to lay an egg at that level, now it puts them in a spot where they're in deep trouble.

Speaker 54 Like, I mean,

Speaker 13 obviously, the history backs these things up.

Speaker 21 I'll say this.

Speaker 54 I'm stepping back from on some level being bullish about Cincinnati, but I still don't think they're done. And

Speaker 13 I look at their schedule.

Speaker 18 They go to Carolina next week, and who knows?

Speaker 29 You know, Andy Dalton revenge game, you know, that you never know what could happen now.

Speaker 16 They might be a juggernaut.

Speaker 54 Then they have home against the Ravens, at Giants, at the Browns.

Speaker 14 I mean, the pathway just to get back into contention is there,

Speaker 30 but it does.

Speaker 1 It has to shake the confidence of everyone that sports that team.

Speaker 23 And behind the scenes in that locker room, shit, we just got buried by this rookie in a game in our building in primetime that we needed.

Speaker 25 We might not be so good after all.

Speaker 28 And that is, as the season spins forward, we're going to now have to see whether the Bengals are actually worth a damn.

Speaker 6 Well, and, you know, and this is why I love Gravesigger.

Speaker 6 While we're doing this, he drums up these incredible numbers, but they're 0-3. And so you go back to 1990.
I was a junior in high school. And I'm not saying 1890, but 1990.

Speaker 6 Just 2.5% of teams that started 0-3 made the playoffs. Like, you can't just keep...

Speaker 6 We don't just keep incubating you and growing you out of the crib and waiting for the Bengals to do the thing where a child finally crawls out of the crib and you find them on the carpet and it's cute, even though they're not hurt.

Speaker 6 It's like, no, you've got to find... This was the game that like a couple weeks ago, you think like, oh, they'll slay Washington.

Speaker 6 I think most people thought they would have beaten Washington by 15, 20 points tonight.

Speaker 21 This is why I don't bet, by the way.

Speaker 4 I mean, I love it.

Speaker 4 having fun on underdog, but

Speaker 9 why would you ever get involved when these things can happen?

Speaker 54 Like, everything was pointing to Cincinnati taking care of business, but the league and the teams are so close together and

Speaker 19 performances like the Daniels, we've seen it in the past.

Speaker 6 These things can happen, and it happened again.

Speaker 6 The only thing I'd say, though, is that there was some

Speaker 6 evidence that Daniels was this guy tonight.

Speaker 6 Not to this degree and not in this fashion against a team that we thought was a Super Bowl team, but his performance against the Giants and what he's done in general, this is an accurate quarterback that leads the league in first down

Speaker 6 rushes. Like he's generated more first downs with his legs.
He's been incredibly accurate. He doesn't turn the ball over.
And if that's the case, you've got a chance against any team.

Speaker 6 And when Cincinnati's pass rush completely disappears tonight,

Speaker 6 It's the perfect setting. And this is not a great commander's offensive line.

Speaker 6 I mean, they were fine tonight, but it's like Daniels is going to be that guy that suddenly changes what we think about an entire organization.

Speaker 6 Like, hope is this like airship, this air dirigible now for a team that we thought, well, maybe next year or the year after, but suddenly they're here.

Speaker 6 And it's like the Browns thought, oh, Washington's a win on their schedule. The Bengals thought that.
It's like, not at this point. Like, this team is rough.

Speaker 6 And, like, they lead, they are at the top of the NFC East right now. And I just want to see what happens.
I love football for that reason.

Speaker 6 It's like a team we weren't even talking about, or if we were, we were slashing them verbally. Here they are.

Speaker 35 And just to

Speaker 32 not put any cold water on it, this will be a memorable game regardless for Washington's fans because it will either be the night that Jaden Daniels announced that he was the next star in the NFL.

Speaker 18 Or this is the high point of his career.

Speaker 42 Like, you never know.

Speaker 3 But, like, for one night,

Speaker 36 this was

Speaker 15 the promise of something potentially special.

Speaker 31 And that's pretty dark, but

Speaker 26 saying not be like he'll never be successful.

Speaker 40 Or, you know, we're about to talk about Trevor Lawrence.

Speaker 18 Like, you never know how these guys develop or don't develop.

Speaker 1 But what you always have was that Monday night in Cincinnati when we had this amazing time at the house because Jaden Daniels just tore the Bengals apart limb from limb in their own buildings.

Speaker 6 I mean, you have him running like a dive bar in like northwest

Speaker 35 D.C.

Speaker 6 about 12 years from now. So let's see how this turns out.

Speaker 1 JD's Tavern.

Speaker 33 All right.

Speaker 27 One last thing, because it was great on the telecast.

Speaker 16 I love this.

Speaker 22 I love having a chip on your shoulder.

Speaker 4 I find so much

Speaker 20 of my drive comes from sticking it to people who doubted us or crossed us or I felt

Speaker 30 you have to rise above what people thought of you or believed you could be or couldn't be.

Speaker 51 Well, Jaden Daniels was a star at LSU, but he admitted and acknowledged, and they talked about it on the telecast, that he lived in the long shadow of Joe Burrow, who is a legend down by the bayou and had that famous championship season where he was smoking the cigar in the Superdome and everything.

Speaker 16 Guy is a living legend for that fan base. Well,

Speaker 1 Mr.

Speaker 35 Daniels stepped out of that shadow and into the spotlight tonight.

Speaker 51 So pretty freaking awesome.

Speaker 6 Can I add like

Speaker 6 a Trent squared note here?

Speaker 6 Left tackle Trent Trent Brown for the Bengals.

Speaker 6 Don't like that. Injured.
But then Jaden Daniels' first touchdown ever is to, and

Speaker 6 this is a Mike DeGar shout-out, is to offensive tackle Trent Scott. So two big men named Trent diverge this evening on that fork in the road.
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 37 I kind of like my clothes better, but that was cool, too.

Speaker 6 Factual, but all right.

Speaker 51 Good Trent update.

Speaker 22 Good Trent update.

Speaker 42 All right, let's now move to the other Monday night game.

Speaker 16 The

Speaker 22 real primetime game.

Speaker 17 Even if it wasn't the real story, well, yeah, there are big storylines coming out of Bills v.

Speaker 23 Jaguars, too.

Speaker 52 Let's start, though, with some comments you heard from Shad Khan, owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars, prior to the start of this season.

Speaker 64 Winning now is the expectation. Make no mistake, this is the best team assembled by the Jacksonville Jaguars ever.

Speaker 64 Best players, best coaches, but most importantly, let's prove it by winning now.

Speaker 25 Let's prove it by winning now.

Speaker 33 How about later?

Speaker 46 How about we win later?

Speaker 55 Like October, maybe?

Speaker 38 Sure.

Speaker 48 Is that okay, boss?

Speaker 33 Down the road.

Speaker 40 Down the road.

Speaker 41 Eventually, we'll win.

Speaker 8 Ah, game.

Speaker 28 The Buffalo Bills had no interest in the Jaguars getting on their feet this season in their building.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 56 the Bengals take note.

Speaker 60 This is how you deal with someone that comes into your house with the lights up.

Speaker 17 47-10.

Speaker 53 The Bills drop a hammer on the Jags.

Speaker 18 The Bills improve to 3-0.

Speaker 3 The Jags drop to 0-3.

Speaker 8 And Mark, Josh Allen was an absolute dynamo.

Speaker 8 If we're talking about offensive rookie of the year favorite now being Jaden Daniels, we also saw the MVP favorite in action in Josh Allen, who threw four touchdown passes in the first half alone.

Speaker 19 And the Bills scored on each of their first five drives and then just rolled to the finish line with an easy, easy win.

Speaker 8 So, you know, talk about narratives that get busted up.

Speaker 35 Mark, all the talk about the Bills and did the window close and this is the weakest Bills team yet, all bunch of bullshit.

Speaker 17 And Josh Allen, speaking to guys with chips on their shoulder and

Speaker 54 draw from this idea of being doubted, I think that's cooking a little bit here in this fantastic start for the Bills.

Speaker 6 I mean, I'm one of those people, like dating back to

Speaker 6 the middle. No,

Speaker 6 I was down on the Bills. I thought that they were in a bit of a restructure.
I'm not going to call it a rebuild, but I didn't love the roster going into the season.

Speaker 6 I didn't like the energy around the team. I didn't like it last season.
And I just, I got annoyed with people that just ticketed them for the you know the AFC playoffs or title game, especially.

Speaker 6 I think tonight is a huge victory for Sean McDermott, especially on defense, and we'll get to that, but just the Sean McDermott model, Brandon Bean, for the fact that they put together a team that, and I mentioned it before, it kind of reminds me on some level about the way that I think about the Chiefs, where it's like you thought that they lacked star power, but they found a way three weeks into the season to use a lot of different guys in a lot of different ways.

Speaker 6 Shakir, James Cook, like Kinkade, like Josh Allen is already in sync with all of them.

Speaker 6 And to look at these numbers, because a lot of it has to do with the defense, too, that is missing a couple guys, but you got Von Miller stepping up at halftime, because I've viewed this game over at halftime.

Speaker 6 Tell me if I'm being too

Speaker 6 cavalier there, but

Speaker 6 they had 288 yards to 70.

Speaker 49 It was 34 to 3 at halftime, so I don't think that's what I were really on a.

Speaker 6 Obviously, I'm not alone thinking that, but it was just the ability to drop that kind of a hammer on a team that a couple of weeks ago you would have thought has quality players, has a quality quarterback.

Speaker 6 And when you can take an opponent and put them into an absolute corner of darkness the way that they have with the terrible Jacksonville Jaguars right now and a quarterback and Trevor Lawrence, where Dan, like, I'm like, what is happening with this person's career?

Speaker 6 His career is falling apart before our eyes, and it's attached to a coach, a Super Bowl-winning coach that was hired to turn him into an A-plus higher echelon starter, and everything is spinning into complete chaos.

Speaker 41 Yeah, I think the Jaguars

Speaker 8 have lost eight straight games now dating back to last year.

Speaker 53 Lawrence,

Speaker 17 you know, he just got that huge contract.

Speaker 50 And

Speaker 61 it's not really a hindsight 2020 thing.

Speaker 9 I kept on hearing that, oh, Lawrence has to get paid next, and he'll get paid.

Speaker 15 And I just kept thinking to myself, like, is

Speaker 30 so what is the level that you have to get to as a quarterback to get the contract that puts you in the top five of all players in the league?

Speaker 14 And Trevor Lawrence, to me, simply hasn't done enough to earn that beyond being the number one overall pick and looking the part.

Speaker 54 And he certainly has had moments in his career,

Speaker 28 the playoff comeback, obviously chief among them, a a couple seasons ago.

Speaker 60 But there's also been a lot of evidence that he is not the generational player

Speaker 19 that they thought they were getting.

Speaker 54 And yet, and this maybe speaks organizationally

Speaker 35 to some issues, and that Shad Khan

Speaker 14 speech that you heard to the players before the season and Tony Khan making a spectacle of himself during the draft with the neck brace and

Speaker 9 doing the bit for the Wrestling Federation.

Speaker 50 Like,

Speaker 25 I mean, how seriously should we take this?

Speaker 6 That's at the heart of it, but I hear you.

Speaker 9 I'm just saying, like, but it's all of a larger piece of how seriously should we take this franchise?

Speaker 8 Because it almost, especially when you just look at the results and the way Trevor Lawrence is playing, I mean, he played poorly in this game, and he has not had a good year so far.

Speaker 35 Um, that they, they just make decisions based on an image of what they believe they have and what they can be rather than what they actually are.

Speaker 3 And that's, that's not going to work in our league.

Speaker 54 And you, you saw that in this game.

Speaker 17 This team is totally unprepared. In addition to the defense not being able to get a single stop on Josh Allen in the first half, they put up 70 yards.

Speaker 62 So, in a game that

Speaker 8 right before the game started, I think it was Dan Orlofsky on the ESPN coverage had a comment where he said, like, this, I think this is the biggest start of Trevor Lawrence's career.

Speaker 15 And the first thing I scoffed and I said, oh my God, these guys are so annoying.

Speaker 54 That's so lame. And then I was thinking about it.

Speaker 36 I was like, hmm,

Speaker 17 maybe I see what he's talking about because this is a player that is now under

Speaker 14 contract for a huge amount of money.

Speaker 62 They're in a big spot on the road in week three at 0-2,

Speaker 18 and they are looking to get their whole fortunes turned around.

Speaker 62 And you needed him to lead them.

Speaker 48 And instead, he shrunk while the other quarterback across the sideline absolutely balled out.

Speaker 23 So it's a terrible look for Lawrence, a terrible look for the Jags.

Speaker 54 And you just wonder what's next there.

Speaker 8 And you wonder if some butts are getting hot because Khan is now being embarrassed, Mark, by the performance of the team that he thought was so excellent.

Speaker 6 Oh, I think butts are hot.

Speaker 6 I think this is, as Connor Orris mentioned, a job that someone else would want because they think they can fix what they see that is clearly broken.

Speaker 6 He's got the second worst completion percentage in the league

Speaker 6 at a time when, compared to years ago,

Speaker 6 you'd have players like now at this point, everyone is like 68, 70% or more completion percentage, and he's not connecting with his wide receivers.

Speaker 6 Like the moment tonight that I thought was just like a sports moment more than just a Trevor Lawrence moment, but they have a chance. They're fighting for oxygen.

Speaker 6 They're trying to get back in the game. He overthrows Brian Thomas Jr., who's one of the bright spots on this team.

Speaker 6 And I really think this is someone they can build around right into the arms of DeMar Hamlin, who goes 19 yards with it to the... into Jacksonville territory.

Speaker 6 I mean, to have that happen on primetime after everything else, else, not couched on some early game on Sunday, but tonight in front of everyone,

Speaker 6 it was a crescendoing moment for the Bills. And also, I think for the Jaguars, like the complete dark mirror opposite of like, what is happening to this franchise? We are falling apart.

Speaker 6 We're falling apart. And I think that hot butts is

Speaker 6 kind at this point. I'm boiling butts.
Butts are boiling, Dan.

Speaker 17 Boiling butts.

Speaker 9 That is disgusting, but potentially accurate.

Speaker 18 Yeah, you're referring to, so it's 20 to

Speaker 8 with four minutes and 13 seconds to play in the second quarter.

Speaker 51 So this was really the last chance for Jacksonville to stay in the game.

Speaker 50 And Brian Thomas, wide open, and Lawrence just airmails him.

Speaker 52 And last year, I think a lot of, you could call it excuses or just explanations,

Speaker 12 but I think in general, people that watch the game and think that Lawrence is a big-time quarterback were quick to kind of wave away how bad he was last year because he was hurt and he was playing through an injury and he probably should have shut it down sooner.

Speaker 17 But there's nowhere to hide now. I mean, the performance that he had in this game and in general, the start to his season is that of a very average quarterback that is being paid like a superstar.

Speaker 36 The Hamlin story is so great, by the way, because obviously

Speaker 8 it wasn't so long ago that he was laying on the turf of that stadium

Speaker 15 dying.

Speaker 35 His heart had stopped, and the staff there saved his life with some quick actions.

Speaker 14 And then he comes back, and it's pretty gutsy to me and still insane.

Speaker 8 All due respect, Mark, to Joe Flacco and the Cleveland Browns that DeMar Hamlin didn't win comeback player of the year last year.

Speaker 36 But anyway, that's beside the point.

Speaker 1 He gets the interception.

Speaker 8 The fact that he came back to play football is a miracle. Here is Hamlin after the game speaking into an iPhone.
Could be an Android.

Speaker 33 Probably an iPhone. It was Mafia.
What up? It's three.

Speaker 66 Monday night football. You was good to me this time.
I appreciate it. Go bills, man.
We got another one. Three and Os.

Speaker 44 That's an understatement.

Speaker 31 Monday Night Football, you were good to me this time.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, because he's in good spirits.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I thought there was an interesting tweet that Trevor Lawrence is the only NFL quarterback who's thrown an interception to someone who died.

Speaker 6 So, and I mean, you know, we can make a joke of that now, but like what is kind of crazy that all of you.

Speaker 48 I wouldn't.

Speaker 4 You know what?

Speaker 27 Mark Sessler made that decision, and that's where you can send the the letters.

Speaker 65 What's that, P.O.

Speaker 8 Box?

Speaker 6 I will provide it up at the end of the show. Yes, I hope to hear everyone's outrage about that.
But, I mean, that's where we're at at this point.

Speaker 6 What an insane like that was the worst deficit in the first half the Jaguars have ever had.

Speaker 6 I mean, like, for Shad Khan to say this is the best team we've ever assembled, like, he's like, what do you say? Hear me now or take me seriously.

Speaker 36 He's an example of owners are best to be seen, but not heard.

Speaker 6 Shadows.

Speaker 3 They have an important role.

Speaker 35 They sign the checks.

Speaker 37 Shadows and the wallets. Shadows and the wallets.

Speaker 33 You don't have to talk.

Speaker 12 You don't have to talk.

Speaker 54 And speaking of, we weren't allowed to say this on the old show.

Speaker 65 No.

Speaker 8 Owners, you don't need to talk. And it's probably better if you don't.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and it's like, you know, that wasn't in a small scrum with two reporters or a private one-on-one. It was like in front of the entire team.

Speaker 6 And, you know, it would shake the confidence of the person running the entire organization if their assessment is what it was.

Speaker 11 All right.

Speaker 35 Last word we'll give to Doug Peterson.

Speaker 1 Here's what he had to say about the disaster for the Jaguars.

Speaker 67 I'll tell you this, no one's going to feel sorry for us, right? I mean,

Speaker 67 this is who we are right now, and it's not very good, right? And we have to be honest, you know, with ourselves, and I've got to be honest with myself, and

Speaker 67 just keep plugging away.

Speaker 19 As for the Bills, Mark, they are 3-0, and they have a quarterback playing out of his mind, and I cannot wait till next Monday night because we get Bills at Ravens.

Speaker 21 Spicy.

Speaker 33 But

Speaker 33 another double Monday night, though.

Speaker 63 Titans at Dolphins was.

Speaker 6 Right, because they're shoving Titans-Dolphins on us, too. So maybe we, you know.

Speaker 6 Why are they doing this? I mean, I know why, I guess. Why are they doing this? Do they even have to play the Titans-Dolphins game?

Speaker 19 Like, if they didn't play that game, right, and they just do a coin flip to decide who gets W and who gets L, is anyone going to complain?

Speaker 63 I won't. And I'm a Titans fan.

Speaker 6 That also, just in terms of where we're at, is

Speaker 6 one of the worst primetime games

Speaker 6 in a long, long time. Well, okay.

Speaker 4 I think it's a Sajak on Monday.

Speaker 44 I think it's another Sajak game.

Speaker 36 Don't hit us in that Sajak game and think you're going to fool us.

Speaker 33 All right.

Speaker 58 Anything else?

Speaker 63 Yes, the Jaguars night is only getting worse because they're, according to Rap Sheets, stuck on the tarmac and will not be able to depart Buffalo until

Speaker 63 after 1 a.m.

Speaker 44 See, Gravedigger, your team is horrendous, but you're not alone.

Speaker 52 So are the Jaguars, but they're trapped in western New York.

Speaker 15 So things could always be worse.

Speaker 63 One of my favorite tweets of the night was: the AFC South has completed the arc.

Speaker 63 They went from the worst division in football to a division with four exciting young quarterbacks back to the worst division in football in a three-week timeframe. So quick.

Speaker 28 I made that exact point, I think, of the week one recap that this could be a really spicy, fun quarterback division.

Speaker 42 After watching Tony Richardson yesterday and Lawrence today, and you know, we got Mason Rudolph.

Speaker 15 We're staring down the barrel of Mason Rudolph in Nashville.

Speaker 33 Maron.

Speaker 16 All right, let's take a break and we'll hit some news.

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audience only.

Speaker 17 All right, we are back.

Speaker 53 All right, Mark.

Speaker 15 Now we must pivot to the news.

Speaker 6 Must. We talk about news because we've chosen to do, you know, this is our careers.
This is what we've chosen to do with our adult lives, Dan.

Speaker 46 Or did it choose us? You know what I mean, man?

Speaker 40 Yeah.

Speaker 21 Yes, Justin.

Speaker 63 I just want to issue a correction. You know, sometimes publications or news organizations issue a correction if they have something wrong.
Just a quick correction to issue.

Speaker 63 You said the Jaguars have lost eight straight games. Also, yes, I'm going to keep saying Jaguars.
I don't care. The Jags have not lost eight straight games dating back to last year.

Speaker 63 You said that earlier last segment. Trevor Lawrence has lost

Speaker 63 eight straight starts, but they did win the game that he was out.

Speaker 61 Listen, there's so much depressing shit going on in AFC South.

Speaker 48 It's hard to keep track of it all.

Speaker 61 And I'm doing my best.

Speaker 50 So somebody lost eight in a row, but it wasn't the Jaguars because they lost, they won a meetingless game in week 17, you're saying, but they, but the quarterback, the, the, the, the, uh,

Speaker 52 quote-unquote franchise quarterback has lost eight straight starts.

Speaker 63 Right. Not a meetingless game.
They were fighting for a playoff spot.

Speaker 61 Well, I'll issue another correction.

Speaker 35 Mark, how about we don't give Trevor Lawrence a massive historic contract?

Speaker 6 Oh, that would be if you can make bank corrections.

Speaker 6 I, I, I, what I really love the most is, you know, like when you're out in public with friends and like your partner corrects you in front of like your not only your guy friends, but their significant other and probably brandos that think that they could be a better partner to your partner.

Speaker 6 Like, it's great to have Justin fill that role right here on our show.

Speaker 6 Like, just it's that similar feeling of like, I'm going to jump in here and let hundreds of thousands of people know that you were incorrect about a fact that I'm looking at on the internet while you're trying to, you know, freeball verbally

Speaker 36 entertain yeah you know yeah uplift it's beautiful that's a good point you know when my wife and i uh we have a little bit of a lingo uh for that situation or it'd be like yeah you know i'll go hey babe home team

Speaker 6 that's perfect yeah

Speaker 6 and it's you know and it's it's sharp enough and it's um authoritarian enough i think too i think i don't even need to explain to the audience what that means just like babe home team and she goes yeah

Speaker 56 But sometimes she has to say it to me, also.

Speaker 48 But actually, no more, I have to say it to her.

Speaker 57 Equality. Like, we're equal.

Speaker 6 Like, men and women are, they're very equal. So,

Speaker 16 well, that's one way to look at it.

Speaker 15 I, some may say that women are better than men, but you don't say that.

Speaker 36 I do.

Speaker 31 All right, let's hit the news. I'm getting there.

Speaker 69 We needed a bad, you know, because I believe some people are on suicide watch.

Speaker 53 Lamar, man.

Speaker 33 Come on, man.

Speaker 11 Don't speak flippantly about that.

Speaker 47 It's 2024.

Speaker 31 All right, let's get to the news.

Speaker 46 Let's start.

Speaker 27 I thought it was actually funny.

Speaker 13 Let's start with the Raiders.

Speaker 44 This is also funny.

Speaker 18 Antonio Pierce

Speaker 19 is obviously in his first full season as head coach of the Raiders.

Speaker 43 He took over after doing well as the interim coach last season.

Speaker 19 The Raiders had a great win in week two, in which Gardner Minshew played very well and made a bunch of big throws and kind of played like Gardner Minshew, the good version that you expect.

Speaker 17 Things didn't go as well, and an ugly loss to the Panthers on Sunday, a stunning loss, really, considering everything that was going on around the Panthers before that game.

Speaker 19 Minshew ends up on the bench in favor of Aiden O'Connell

Speaker 9 for the fourth quarter of that game.

Speaker 5 And on Monday, the reporters ask the head coach, is a change of quarterback possible?

Speaker 36 Here's what he had to say.

Speaker 70 What did you see from Aiden in his limited spot duty? I know you talked yesterday about just giving him a shot to see what he could do.

Speaker 15 But is there any chance whatsoever that that gives you pause going forward?

Speaker 71 Well, I just think, you know, you look at how the game went.

Speaker 71 We're down by two scores or so. Let Aiden come in, see what he could do with the offense, move it.
We're just trying to look for a spark.

Speaker 70 Could that mean anything going forward? Or is it still Gardner still the guy?

Speaker 71 I think we got to give it the players and just evaluate everything from yesterday first.

Speaker 61 Mark, I don't understand.

Speaker 42 I'm just, I don't want to pile on, and everybody that's listening to the show knows I'm already, I've had my doubts about Pierce since the beginning, but you know, they beat the Ravens on the road a week ago, Sunday, and

Speaker 17 Minshew was great.

Speaker 15 He was nails down the stretch, and he was connecting with Devontae Adams.

Speaker 17 He's not a star quarterback, but he's obviously someone that can be proficient

Speaker 17 when playing the game under control.

Speaker 25 How is Antonio Pierce now after one loss all of a sudden acting like he didn't know what he had in the first place with Minshew?

Speaker 17 Like this seems like a coach who is way, way too

Speaker 61 given to change on a whim, and that's not how it works.

Speaker 17 And I have very, my doubts continue to mount here.

Speaker 36 I guess I'll just leave it at that.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I mean, he didn't, you know, I think it's like, I would imagine the change isn't going to come now. Rappaport, Ian Rappaport said that it's not definitively happening at this point.

Speaker 6 I don't know why you go here, though. I'm with you on this.

Speaker 6 You kind of knew what you, this is like one of the most obvious subplots of the 2024 season. We were going to come to a juncture where

Speaker 6 Antonio Pierce is going to waffle between Aiden O'Connell and Gardner Minshew. You are the organization.
You are the coach.

Speaker 6 You are the front office that went into the season with two guys that you're not building your future around. I don't know why you move off of Minshew or even verbally, even conceptually

Speaker 6 considerate to reporters.

Speaker 6 You're coming off the wind two weeks ago. This wasn't a good Sunday.
He is sixth in yardage, fifth in completion percentage, twelfth in yards per attempt.

Speaker 6 That's pretty good compared to some of the quarterback play we're seeing early on in this weird season. Like, why are we even toying with this? You've got to deal with your locker room too.

Speaker 6 I don't know why if you're pierced that you're even entertaining this. You stick with the guy until it gets so bad that there's nothing else you can do.

Speaker 20 Just to clarify on the rap sheet reporting, he wrote on Twitter, the Raiders are sticking with Minchu.

Speaker 1 Sources say, so no Aiden O'Connell just yet.

Speaker 19 So, yeah, Minshew will be on the field, but I don't know.

Speaker 19 It feels to me that

Speaker 9 Pierce is probably now itching to make that switch and be careful what you wish for. And don't be surprised if we get a flip-flop where we see these guys going back and forth.

Speaker 55 I just,

Speaker 36 my feeling about the way way Pierce is presenting here is overly reactionary, which is the worst thing you want from a head coach.

Speaker 18 Like, fans are allowed to be that way.

Speaker 1 But when your coach is that way, that makes me nervous, and I think it should make Raiders fans noises.

Speaker 59 All right, in other news.

Speaker 21 Speaking of quarterback news, let's talk some injury news.

Speaker 18 Sam Darnold coming off four touchdown passes

Speaker 1 for the Vikings and that blowout of the Texans.

Speaker 62 He got his knee rolled up on in that game.

Speaker 19 He had that knee checked out today, and there was no structural damage.

Speaker 18 It's a bone bruise, so he's expected to be part of the buildup and practice this week and full speed ahead in his big comeback season. The Chargers are not so lucky.

Speaker 9 Justin Herbert obviously aggravated that high ankle sprain.

Speaker 1 So we're going to see what that means.

Speaker 36 I'd be very surprised if we see Herbert next week.

Speaker 35 And who knows beyond that?

Speaker 15 They also lose offensive tackle Rashawn Slater to a strain peck.

Speaker 15 Their rookie tackle, left tackle Joe Alt, has a sprained MCL, and both will miss some time.

Speaker 17 And also, safety, Derwin James, he will miss one game.

Speaker 19 Suspension, though, not an injury, for repeatedly breaking player safety rules.

Speaker 11 When you do that, they start, they put an eye on you, Mark, and then

Speaker 9 you hit a certain number of infractions or eye in the sky fails in the view of the league, and they come to get you.

Speaker 27 So they came and took a game check, and they lose their big-time safety.

Speaker 33 And yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 6 Well, the game check doesn't affect us.

Speaker 6 These are all key players. Like Joe Walt is taller than some

Speaker 6 lean twos and TPs that you'd find in the woods, in old school woods. And like he's very, he's been awesome for them.
They're a grinded out type of team.

Speaker 6 You take away two tackles, potentially, and Justin Herbert. Not loving that.

Speaker 44 I love even at 50 years old, Mark.

Speaker 3 You continue to surprise me with your awe and wonder for how big offensive linemen are.

Speaker 33 You just

Speaker 16 comes up a lot more than one would expect on an NFL podcast that we've done like 1,700 podcasts.

Speaker 44 It's still something that sticks with you.

Speaker 40 It's like I have an uncle, my uncle Stu, that whenever he sees fireworks, he cries.

Speaker 51 It just gets him emotional.

Speaker 19 And that's what I'm, for you, I would imagine when you see an offensive lineman and you see all six foot seven, 320 of them, a tear runs down the cheek.

Speaker 6 Yeah, because I'm not sure that, you know, 40 years from now, these humans will be able to do this job because it's like those people right now are being weaned on like, you know, video screens at age six.

Speaker 6 They're not like, there's like, oh, it was a corn-fed boy from Iowa. Like, no one's corn-fed at this point.
No one's doing farm work. Like, they're on screens.
They're gaming.

Speaker 6 So it's like, I'm not sure where, I'm not sure offensive linemen exist to this degree

Speaker 6 a couple decades from now. How about that?

Speaker 15 What an ominous postscript there from the sest dog in a big spot.

Speaker 53 All right.

Speaker 27 In other news, the Niners, I mean, this is, I do not like this.

Speaker 58 I mean, let's head to Germany.

Speaker 19 Head into Germany for an injury update.

Speaker 14 Never something that you want.

Speaker 44 Christian McCaffrey is seeing a specialist

Speaker 21 in Germany to look at his troublesome Achilles issue that he's dealing with.

Speaker 69 We will figure out what's wrong with your Achilles.

Speaker 39 that's probably a conversation he's having right now yes uh but ominous speaking of ominous

Speaker 8 that doesn't sound great jordan mason obviously is filled in well for mccaffrey but the niners need their their dude the reigning offensive player of the year also javon hargrave is out for the year a season ending triceps injury and brock purdy who by the way played damn well yes he did completely lost in uh the rams comeback and another niners collapse there on sunday at sofi but purdy played great in that game he is day-to-day with back tightness, but hopefully he'll be all good.

Speaker 8 That's what's happening in the news.

Speaker 6 I like the idea of going to Europe to have your body looked at. I think that

Speaker 17 the way you say it, though, there's something almost,

Speaker 40 I don't know.

Speaker 6 Just

Speaker 72 it's a it's a it's a maintenance scenario, and I think you're a sex addiction, you got a problem with sex, sex, you're addicted to sex, the sex addiction or something?

Speaker 6 The two of you trying to come from that angle is concerning to me because I think it's like there's a long storied history of traveling across the ocean to have the best possible care.

Speaker 38 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 51 I'm sure, Mark.

Speaker 8 Where do you like to go? Amsterdam?

Speaker 6 You know, like, I'm not even going to entertain the question. This is a sports analysis podcast.

Speaker 6 That's what I'm talking about, is

Speaker 6 athleticism in sports.

Speaker 38 All right. By the way.

Speaker 6 We're going to smoke your weed.

Speaker 8 By the way, this is obviously just the beginning of another week for Heed the Call. Connor Orr will be back with us Wednesday morning.
We'll preview Giants, Cowboys, and

Speaker 14 have some fun with Connor.

Speaker 8 Then we'll have the Thursday preview show with Jordan and Mike, TNF recap later that night.

Speaker 9 And you get a little double header from Heed the Call.

Speaker 8 And of course, the Sunday night flagship program with Connor and Gravedigger.

Speaker 61 And also, do not forget that Heed the Call has a Patreon offshoot, patreon.com slash heed the call, and you can get the Friday morning

Speaker 8 draft of the games we will cover. We have a lot of fun doing that.
Also, you have the latest throwback podcast exclusive now to the Patreon where we looked at the 2009 VMAs coming up later this week.

Speaker 19 I think Rolling Thunder is making its debut, Mark.

Speaker 25 Is that correct?

Speaker 6 I believe it is.

Speaker 38 Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 6 Yeah, no, it's going to be a nice surprise. I also have a newsletter that will appear at some point.

Speaker 6 You know, that's crept up on me during the busy NFL season, so I'll be working on that as the midnight oil burns. Maybe hire like an intern to help me write part of that.

Speaker 6 But that's going to be released as a significant thing.

Speaker 8 Usually, when people hire someone to ghost write their content, the whole idea is not to share with the audience that it's ghostwritten, but now the cat's out of the bag, thus lowering potentially the value of the article itself.

Speaker 35 But, you know, what's done is done.

Speaker 8 It cannot be edited. Justin, anything else?

Speaker 63 Yeah, you know, you mentioned the throwback podcast, looking at the VMAs.

Speaker 63 And I just wanted to say on my drive back from Vegas, late, late Saturday night slash early, early Sunday morning, driving back from Vegas at 2 a.m., four hour drive, deliriously tired.

Speaker 63 The thing that got us home while I was driving was listening to the Throwback podcast, starting with that episode. And it is a great listen.

Speaker 33 Highly encouraged. Highly recommend it.

Speaker 15 Thank you, Justin.

Speaker 8 You know, it crossed my mind. You mentioned that on Sunday night before we taped.
You said, hey, I'm driving back from the desert, we were listening to Throwback Pod.

Speaker 8 And then you mentioned that you had done like a Britney episode. So we found that and listened to that.
But Mark, he didn't mention like we enjoyed it.

Speaker 17 He just mentioned that he listened to it.

Speaker 8 And I was like, well, did he not, did he not like it?

Speaker 35 But now I have the proof.

Speaker 8 He now has followed up with a comment that they enjoyed it. So now I feel much better about that.

Speaker 6 Justin, can I just give you a piece of advice? When you discuss anything regarding Dan's activities, accomplishments, artistic endeavors, or personality, be very thorough.

Speaker 6 Be very thorough because he's spent the last day plus, that was more than a day, of experiencing enjoyment.

Speaker 6 He was thinking about, he was parsing your comments, and I could tell they were complimentary. Something about Dan did not

Speaker 6 allow it to go to that place.

Speaker 63 Obviously, if we listened to the entire podcast and then went back in the archives and found another one to keep listening to you guys, and I would say

Speaker 8 you cracked the door open just enough where the doubt had flooded into my room and into my thoughts.

Speaker 14 But now I'm so happy to hear that.

Speaker 8 And maybe you, the listening audience, will also enjoy the Throwback Podcast with Bob Kestron and I.

Speaker 65 So thank you, Justin. It's very nice of you.

Speaker 33 Of course.

Speaker 33 All right.

Speaker 13 That's it.

Speaker 35 See you on Wednesday.

Speaker 35 Congratulations to Commanders fans.

Speaker 15 Jaguars fans.

Speaker 50 Sorry about your bad luck.

Speaker 57 Till next time, heed the call.

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