Preseason Week 2: It MATTAHS or It Doesn’t MATTAH?

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The Heed the Call podcast

is definitely ready for some damn football!

Yes,

we are.

And, you know, we're two and a half weeks or so away from that actually happening.

Dan Hans is here with Mark Sessler.

We must heed the call.

Episode four.

How are you, Mark?

I'm doing great.

Four episodes in.

Well,

we haven't finished the fourth yet, so there's always the fingers crossed element to that.

But yeah, we are, you know,

it's kind of insane to me how quickly these pile up, because it's soon it's going to be November.

We're going to be episode, you know, 86, whatever.

You know, this is what we do.

This is the job.

Have I described that correctly?

Yeah, the march of time, Mark.

It's unstoppable.

Yes.

And it all ends in one place, but let's enjoy the here and now while we can.

And

I'm not going to do what everybody thinks I'm going to do, which is just bag on the preseason, because that wouldn't make much sense.

Because today's episode is going to be combing through all of the week two of the preseason action.

But I just, I have an economics take, Mark.

You know, this is a new show, and I want to start flexing some different muscles.

My economics background, which I don't have one, but it's time to start digging in and understand that we do run our own business in a way now, Mark, Mark, you know?

Yes, yes, we do.

How are we doing so far on that, by the way?

Give it a grade.

Well, I mean, we have a job, so that's the strong B-plus beginning, but I think that there's some stuff coming down the pike that could make this job even more beneficial to us and to the listeners than ever before.

So B-plus can grow to an A.

Very good, very good.

I was going to say we can't be charging people for these preseason games.

We just can't.

After watching some more this weekend, they should be treated the same way teams handle training camp practice.

Go ahead and make all your money.

Shield, make all the money you want on parking and concessions, you know, get that beer money.

But, you know, that Raiders-Cowboys game in Vegas, they had a big crowd.

And I'm thinking to myself, you know, and maybe that crowd is people who had just four hours to kill before they went to see Tony Wonder at the Luxor or whatever.

But I imagine there's also people there watching football for the first time who think that this is what it's all about.

This is what the prodigal, Mark, we've done a lot to grow this game internationally,

something that was undoubtedly appreciated

in our latest round of contract negotiations.

But

the issue of our international audience is near and dear to us.

And I just want to make sure some honeymooning couple in Tanzania

don't think that that is our export here.

There is more to share.

Yes.

You're not just an economist.

You're looking out, you're safeguarding those that might be caught sleeping from an economical standpoint.

I actually looked up Ram's Chargers tickets a week ago, and it's like on that vivid seats where you can, I just wanted to see how, what is, if I really wanted to go sit in the front row and bring a friend, like, how much is it?

You can get them for nine bucks and sit in the middle of nowhere, but like, I found seats for $23,000.

Now, I mean, an average sports fan is not going to fall for that.

I mean, there were a bunch of these.

But some rube out there or some sort of, you know, if you're from another part of the world and you're like a prince or something, I want to go get the best seats at this game.

And you dropped $47,000 to bring two people.

Something doesn't feel right about

that mission by whoever's selling these tickets.

I mean, someone got hoodwinked somewhere.

Someone always does.

Yeah,

good point.

Good point.

Shout out to Princes that might be listening right now.

I'll just throw one thing out there before we get into it, and we're going to bring on our friend,

a very special friend, in just a minute.

How about this?

Because, no, everybody's sick.

Nobody wants to hear us complaining about the preseason games.

But what if, because we're looking out for the average Joe, what if there was some type of entertainment ombudsman who tracks these preseason games, like PFF, for instance, and they come up with a score.

And if the game grades out at, say, a 50,

you get half your money refunded.

If it grades out at a 21.2,

a real, you know, poop box of a game, maybe you get 78.8% of your ticket value back.

It's just returned.

So I'm just saying, creating jobs, the ombudsman, and protecting the American consumer,

we're building back better, baby.

Thoughts?

I think these are natural roles for you.

You know, I am not surprised that you're able to harness these additional skill sets at this time.

And, you know, I think it's a natural addendum to what you're already working on, which is covering football.

But you like money, Mark.

You like additional streams of incomes.

You got a lot going on.

How about you become the honorary first entertainment ombudsman of the NFL preseason?

I would happily do it.

Considering where we last worked, I'm not sure they would be happy that I was taking on that role, but you know what?

It's an independent pair of eyes.

So, yes, I would take that role, Dan.

All right, good.

See, we're trying to find solutions, not just complaining.

All right.

With that said, there is, while you don't get caught up with necessarily the quality of play or certainly the final score,

there is much to take out of the preseason action if you have a discerning eye.

So we're going to kind of go around the horn a bunch of times and share some takeaways from the games that were played from

Thursday through Sunday

this week.

One more week of preseason games to go, and that's a very hit-or-miss affair in terms of who plays and who doesn't play.

But quite frankly, that's the way it is for every round of the preseason.

And to do this job, we're going to welcome in a friend, and we're so happy to have him hit it, Gravedigger.

Are you kidding me?

Back for his second show on Heed the Call.

It is Connor Orr.

What's up, buddy?

Entertainment on Budsman.

You in?

Yeah,

I think it's a great idea.

I think Mark is perfect for it.

And, gosh, it's just, it's great to see you guys.

Everyone just looks hotter and hotter every episode.

It's unbelievable.

We got those summer tans working.

I know.

And

you're looking great too and tie-dye.

In fact,

I'll go this far.

Connor already did his transformation a few years ago where he went from like your standard journo to all of a sudden it's like, whoa, is this guy like doing decathlons?

So I've gotten used to his new build and his new look.

But there's something warm and inviting about.

you know, Connor in a ball cap and a tie-dye shirt, probably a fish shirt that makes me, or a dead shirt, that makes me feel safe.

So thank you for that.

Just being who you are, Connor.

I know you can really, you can change everything, but you can never learn to dress.

That's possible.

And I'm living proof of that.

Connor and I had

Connor and I had many adventures where, you know, we all know of this place, the Cozy Inn, which was a block or two down from our Culver City headquarters.

And the trick there is because they've got a, you know, jukeboxes now.

It's like four credits to play a song that's two minutes long.

So you go in there and we would play, you know, Find Those Grateful Dead songs that are roughly off some sort of live album that are 19 to 25 minutes long and take over to the annoyance of pretty much everyone in there the bar for a solid hour by playing three songs.

That's how you become an economic ombudsman, too, Dan.

You've got to find your angles.

Yes, make that dollar, stretch that dollar as far as it can go.

Connor, before we get into the preseason games, I think people want to know.

People are dying to know.

We're carrying on certain traditions from around the NFL to this new project.

And something I'm really excited about, and was really the the driving force behind us bringing you on this adventure with us is the Connor Orr Christmas Hallmark special that we do every year.

We want to know,

how's it coming along?

How is your research going?

This is the first tease.

Some people might say it's a little early, middle of August to be teasing the Connor Orr Hallmark Christmas special,

but I don't think so.

What do we got coming up?

Tease it, Connor.

Well, it's actually perfect time.

We're just coming off of Christmas in July.

So had a whole month of Hallmark over the summer, which was great.

It was kind of just back to get my feet wet and get back on the grind.

I will say it definitely, it definitely shored up some wounds for me

just because

I don't know how anyone else would feel about this, but I found out that the NFL was making a Hallmark movie from Tom Pellisero and you know on Twitter.

And no offense to Tom, who's wonderful at his job, but like who's been covering this harder than I have

for the past four or five years?

And it warmed my heart heart, really, that everybody kind of CC'd me on this.

But I would say those of us in the community are really kind of gearing up here.

I think the lineup for this movie is really interesting.

Not what I would have gone with in terms of an actor-actress combo.

And yeah, I mean, I'm really going to be digging in here because I would say that the group here has to prove something to me.

I'm very skeptical, and I'm not sure.

Dubious.

So the casting.

Wow, interesting.

We were just talking about the Madden casting of Nick Cage.

and this even more controversial, perhaps, where you're coming from.

Yeah, so the main

star here, the main guy here is Tyler Hines, and he's sort of your hallmark bad boy, I would say.

He's a little bit more sarcastic, and to me, I always end the movies with Tyler and them

feeling less like he was truly transformed by the power of Christmas.

And then you have other heavyweights,

you know, out there.

I don't know, like Andrew Walker from Bottled with love love on ice and maple valley Christmas and like I think Andrew's a much stronger lead for something this monumental for the brand so I would say trepidation is probably how I'm feeling right now and I tend to think that Tom Pellisero didn't dig in with a thread of tweets that went down the avenue you just did Maple Valley Christmas or whatever that one I that was a controversial entry if I if I recall was that not quite controversial it was sort of the passion of the Christ of Hallmark movies.

Yeah, it was very

rubbed some people the wrong way, but it's undoubtedly connects with others.

The Connor Orr Hallmark Holiday Special, working title, December 18th.

So make sure you tune in for that.

All right, with that,

oh, yes, Justin, how are you, buddy?

Hey, Dan, I'm great.

Thanks for asking.

I just wanted to jump in and say, on the, in the spirit, spirit, like Christmas spirit, in the spirit of carrying traditions over from around the nfl to this podcast yeah uh connor or we introduced him with this awesome riff

but i was wondering if is there a better way maybe to introduce

yeah connor or a theme song let's let's put the call out there

um what i would like us to do because i like to give the audience and such such a great musical audience um a bit of a roadmap and that then let them run with it like wild horses through the field of creativity.

We want it to be in the genre

of

the Grateful Dead.

We want it to have that kind of shaggy,

shambolic,

you know, free spirit vibe.

How would you describe the dead,

Connor?

I'm sure I didn't do it justice there.

Like fleeting, experimental,

you know, from another, from another planet.

Yeah, boundless, I would say.

And here's the, Mark, here is the, because I know you're familiar with this, this genre.

Here's the challenge.

Do not,

do not

make this longer than 30 seconds, which is in

stark contrast to everything that Connor's music represents, where you could go,

you could go to a dead concert and you get there 20 minutes late and they're into Touch of Gray already, and then you come back from the bathroom, they're still doing doing Touch of Gray.

It could be an hour long, these songs, but we need 30 seconds.

And I'm sorry, Touch of Gray was such a basic, dead reference.

No, actually, it roll away with the dew.

What was that one?

That was a good one.

Yeah, but I would say that

Box of Rain is a good reference, actually, because that was one of the few songs, or Touch of Gray, that's one of the few songs that kind of climbed the charts because it was digestible, the radio edit.

And so they had to go do what something they were normally not doing, which was truncate the length of the song.

So a similar challenge to the listener.

And I think, Dan, once again, I don't know what you've been doing all morning, but you continue to hit these triples and doubles and home runs out of the park.

And I would say in that case, it was, thank you, Mark.

Heed the call.

The Grateful Dead were heeding the call.

It's like, we actually need to make some money.

We need a chart hit here.

It's not just about touring.

So let's get on MTV as skeletons.

We want something like that.

30 seconds or less, please.

Where can people send that entry, by the way, Gravedigger?

Send it to HeedTheCall Football Show at gmail.com.

And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see that right now on the bottom of your screen.

God damn, that's a good producer.

All right.

Without further ado, let's get to it.

We're going to kind of share.

It's a segment we call, it matters.

Or it doesn't matter.

Okay?

So we're going to go around the horn a few times, Gravedigger included, and share some takeaways from the preseason action 16 games.

Let's start with the great Connor Orr.

Again, December 18th, the Connor Orr Hall Mork holiday special coming up.

Be there, but let's get to the preseason action.

Get us going, Connor.

It matters.

It doesn't matter.

So I want to start with Seattle and Tennessee, a game I think that almost no one except for Justin was probably watching.

And what blows my mind about this is how different the Seahawks offense looks and how different it needs to look right now.

And I would guess if we're going to put money on an offense that raises eyebrows over the first three or four weeks of the season, it's going to be Seattle.

We have a true college offensive coordinator and Ryan Grubb coming from the University of Washington.

And what I would say about Ryan is towards the end, like when they were going through the playoffs, the end of their last regular season, a few regular season games, they were one of the highest teams in the NFL or NCAA, like top 15 in plays run.

Okay.

And so my curiosity here is, are we kind of going to get a little bit of a Chip Kelly flavor to this?

Are we going to get a little bit more tempo with the offense?

And are we going to see basically like a Rams hyper drive?

And so I was watching a lot of

that game, and there were so many different sort of ways that they were

doing things, deploying receivers in the backfield.

I thought it looked really unique.

And so for me, this matters, baby, because the NFL is copying everything at such a rapid pace.

And here you have a true outsider coming in, melding it with members of the Ram staff and birthing something truly new and experimental.

So I think that very much matters, Dan.

Love it.

You got,

you know, plenty of talent on that side of the ball.

And I was a little bit sheepish about.

moving on from the Pete Carroll era, but now when you just listening to Connor, you explain that and how

a new scheme with Ryan Grubb there, it energizes the entire operation.

And it was time for Seattle to perhaps turn the page.

But you got Metcalf there.

You have obviously Lockett there.

Jackson Smith and Jigba, a guy that makes a lot of sense.

Somebody could take the leap.

Kenneth Walker was getting really pumped up by the coaching staff.

And then, of course, Geno Smith.

If they can get into some shootouts, that would be a lot different than the football we've gotten used to in Seattle.

Yeah, I mean, I think without Mike McDonald, this is not happening, obviously, because he's, you know, recently dipped in the college game, too.

And I guess my question for you would be because

Connor, I'll never forget when the Patriots met with Chip Kelly, like behind the scenes.

This is back when, like, the first year, I believe, of the Peyton Manning Broncos, and they went and played Denver and New England just out of nowhere, because like they were, it was familiar to see them kind of shift their offense from week to week early on, but they ripped off like 75 plays out of nowhere, and like that kind of thing caught the league by storm.

Then Chip Kelly caught the league by storm and off guard early on in his tenure and then it melted away.

But at this point, if they go and do that, the Seahawks, because they're going to unveil it early on,

it could surprise some defensive coordinators.

But isn't the rest of the league kind of caught up to that at this point in terms of a shock and awe?

We've never seen this at the NFL level?

Well, I will long maintain that Chip Kelly was,

yanking him out of the NFL was like pulling Da Vinci halfway through the ceiling painting.

And I will forever lament the fact that this man still is not an NFL head coach.

But I think what Chip was doing, like you saw it towards the end, like right before he got fired, we were calling it the power spread.

We were loading up on these big backs.

And I think the counterbalance to the speed was coming where you want to add a physical element into it.

And that was something that the Eagles never had.

But remember at the end, I think they got like DeMarco Murray and Ryan Matthews and these bigger backs that were supposed to end up kind of milking the clock a little bit more while also having that, you know, one-word play call, speed element where we're fast to the ball.

And I think that maybe this is in a way like picking up the baton and taking it because the effective tempo is still there.

You know, every good NFL offense in some way, shape, or form is dictating what the defense is able to do.

And tempo is one of those things where if you're short-staffed or you're short-handed or you don't have all the things that the 49ers have, you can keep a defense the way that you want it, want to keep it, it, and then you can operate from there.

But I just think, like, watching Sam Howell take snaps over the weekend, he drops back, and there are two or three options immediately to get rid of the ball that are open on almost every play.

Now, these aren't home run hits, but do they need to be when you're throwing the ball four, five, six yards at a clip, and then that makes room for those big shots downfield whenever they open.

Very good.

I like that one.

I agree.

It matters.

It matters.

It's fun.

Adding more elements to the NFC West Stew.

All right.

Let's go to the NFC South.

I'm starting to appreciate the Atlanta Falcons' gonzo approach to roster management and general common sense.

I rarely agree with their decision-making, it seems, but it's not the worst thing.

It gives us stuff to talk about.

That's cool with me.

So I'm not going to rage about Raheem Morris's decision not to play Michael Pennix over the weekend.

He also indicated that Pennix won't play

in the preseason finale either, which means that his rookie preseason will be 16 passes in the opener, and that's it.

Eyebrows were raised across the league.

League takes were had.

Here's Morris stating his side of things.

We've seen enough last week of Michael Pennix in the live stuff, and now we had the chance to mitigate him in practice.

And you know, we give him a bunch of live stuff out there in practice that you do everything that you would do in a game other than get hit.

But, you know, we feel really good where we're at with Michael.

We feel really good where we're at with the other guys that we set.

And we treated that the same way.

But Mike showed us last week enough that we don't have to play him in the preseason.

Okay.

I mean, this a lot of this goes back to what is preseason and what does it mean.

And you are seeing a shift in how teams and coaching staffs value these joint practices even more than the preseason, a slightly more controlled environment.

And of course, the practices.

And there's also some more context to comb through here because Atlanta entered the second preseason game having already lost four players to injury after the opener.

He held out nearly 40 players, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

And you have Tyler Heineke,

Taylor Honeke, taking the bulk of the snaps.

He's not going to

rise any further than third on this QB depth chart.

I guess.

I would assume so, but again, you never know with the Falcons.

So you could see that as Heineke

essentially an audition for other teams that might not like their backup quarterback situation.

So there's some logic behind that.

And then there's the broader picture around the Falcons, which is like what good does it do the team for Penix to play in these preseason games and absolutely light up a bunch of backups?

They've created this weird environment where,

you know, the better Pennex does this summer, the more difficult it will make the season, especially if Kirk Cousins isn't playing at a high level out of the gate or the recovery from the Achilles doesn't allow him to be the consistent player that he's been his entire career.

So, in a way, I'm going to put my tin foil hat on that the Falcons are like, let's manage this.

Let's not ramp, let's not juice this guy up too much because we know that could be devastating in terms of a locker room distraction and the way the outside is trying to get on the inside of the team.

So, that's just my general feeling: is that it doesn't matter.

He's still not the quarterback of today, or maybe even tomorrow.

It's down the line, so you don't need to have him playing all these snaps.

But I understand why it's an eyebrow raiser because this team in general specializes in eyebrow raising.

Well, people keep talking about, there was a fair amount of outrage around this message from certain camps.

And you're right.

So many people sat that I think DiOrlando Ledbetter was in there at defensive tackle during part of that preseason tip.

But I, you know, look, like,

I get it.

It's like you want to.

He's a big move, by the way.

He's got a quick first move.

He's excellent.

I can see what they're, I can see what they see.

But

there is this camp that's like, no, we need to, Michael Pennix can log snaps in these two extra preseason games.

Like, he'll have that in his, you know, mind and in his heart to grasp onto and grow from.

Like,

come on.

I mean, it's like, that's fine, and I can see where you're coming from if this was like 14 years ago.

But I think these practices with these scrimmages, and they've seen him throwing for so long, they know what they have.

I think they love him.

I think they're in love with him.

And they were bought in as an organization to make this move.

And, well, they better, but they also, I think, what, you know, you can draft someone and find out, we don't like this guy as much as we thought.

I think there is a lot happening behind the scenes where if you get a weird version of Kirk Cousins, I'm not saying it's Alex Smith and Kaepernick back under Harbaugh, but it's like they're watching this guy with a rocket arm do a lot in practice day after day, stuff that we'll never see.

And there's got to be a fair amount of intrigue on when he'll play,

how quickly, and what Kirk Cousins would have to not do to get him on the field.

I just think it's this lingering.

They created this drama, and it's not because they're never going to follow through on it.

I mean, Dan makes a good point about the emotional.

And, you know, why do you think Joe Flacco is in Indianapolis right now?

The minute that Deshaun Watson started to struggle, you had this legitimate fan favorite guy at that point sitting on the sideline.

And so you dismiss him and send him to, I'm not going to say the World Outpost because Indianapolis is one of the great American cities.

Unbelievable.

I mean, just, you know, come on.

But you send him to one of the great American cities, great global cities, let's be real.

And you replace him with people that, you know, no one is going to Browns games and being like, give me Tyler Huntley.

You know what I mean?

But I do think that there's that element to it.

But to Mark's point, too, if there is this Alex Smith to Colin Kaepernick thing, why would you give other teams two, three games worth of film to dissect and to find weak points on if, you know, if Kirk Cousins gets hurt in week eight, you know, this regime knows that they have to make the playoffs.

Like, there is no other option.

I'm not saying Raheem Morris is going to get fired after a year, but you almost have to make the playoffs.

So, why would you be giving other teams basically a clinic on how to stop your quarterback?

You may just need him to win you one or two games.

Let him be a bit of a mystery and let his weak points be a bit of a mystery for those two games.

It's a double-edged sword there, though, too, because you.

By not giving him the reps in the preseason, and obviously he's not going to be taking the first team reps in practice and all that,

you have to feel really good, and they apparently do behind the scenes that he would be able to step in if Cousins

strains his calf in week two.

So there's a little gamble to it, but at the same time,

again,

I think it serves multiple purposes, including to turn down the heat a little bit.

I think that helps.

Yes, great digging.

Chris Sims had a point on Twitter today, Hook'em Horns, that, you know, maybe the Falcons are a little more worried that Kirk Cousins won't be ready by week one, and they need Michael Pennix to be healthy, and so they don't want to risk him getting injured in a preseason game, which is sort of to your point earlier, Dan, about all the injuries they've already suffered.

But I will take the dissenting opinion here.

I think he needs reps.

I mean, he was one of the more experienced quarterbacks in college coming out.

Yes, he started a ton of games in Indiana and Washington, but the NFL is a different game.

And if...

You are worried that Kirk Cousins may not be ready and you do really need to make the playoffs, as you're saying, Connor, don't you want this kid to get as much work in a live game setting as possible like he can get hurt on his first snap of a real NFL game just as easily as he can get hurt in a preseason game or in a practice or whatever if you're really worried about the injury side then just put him in bubble wrap until Kirk Cousins is gone but I think he needs experience and work because you just throw him like let's say Kirk Cousins week one isn't quite ready and you throw Michael Pennix out there he hasn't played since week one of the preseason like how confident are you that he's actually gonna be effective in in that position One thing that, I mean, I think is really interesting there,

because I'm just going to agree with everybody because that way I'm not wrong necessarily.

That's nice.

Yeah.

Was when you watched Pennix during his first start, he's so much of this Rams offense is play action, play action, play action.

You're always handing the ball off and everything is predicated on a marriage of run and pass.

He was so slow to get out of those handoffs and those breaks that the play was kind of developed by the time that he got out of that.

And then you juxtapose that with someone like J.J.

McCarthy, who was running through handoffs like a car was going to hit him, you know, and he was like terrified, right?

And so from that perspective, yes, like you probably do need more reps.

Like you want that to happen during live game situations.

But if you're a coach, you have to, you kind of have to have that individual thought and feel.

And that's kind of why Raheem Morris was hired, right?

He's got a little bit more of a person, people person reputation than Art Smith did.

So it's like maybe Pendix needs more work behind closed doors.

Like maybe he's the kind of kid that needs to develop this behind the scenes, or maybe there's something that they can do in practice that they feel like they can better replicate that on.

Because the other side of preseason is it's a complete disaster.

And, you know, we'll get to Brock Hurdy in a little bit.

And, you know, there are times when he's just throwing the football and there's no one within, you know, 100 yards of where they're supposed to be.

And so there's that element to preseason too.

All right, Mark, you are up as we roll on here.

Preseason week two matters, doesn't matter.

You know, we were talking about Tayvon Austin last week and how he, you know, he's he's retired and he never really succeeded as an NFL player.

And I think for one of the things that happened, it was like this fascinating college tape, the ceiling of what he could do, never really happened in the NFL to the same degree.

And so when you watch these quarterbacks, it's like Caleb Williams, watching what he did at USC and the most, the magical, spectacular elements of his game, I think it's a incredibly fascinating development for Bears fans to see the high points happening on an NFL field in these preseason games.

And, you know, what you come out of these with, like, oh, you know, Mahomes threw a pass behind his back, and then we saw Caleb Williams uncork this like 45-yard off-platform laser rolling to his left,

spinning away from trouble.

And it's like, wow, this is an exciting, exciting development for a team that has had three top-10 scoring offenses since 1996.

So

you can get kind of swept up in it, where it's like, let's look at the whole game.

And I think he is an incredible prospect and he's going to succeed because of what we know he can do but that game also and he acknowledged it first like he he walked into a sack he had a couple throws that were real wonky he missed some open receivers so it's like I like that I'm not even trying to critique him it's just that there's a lot to work on here still but what he's able to do and when you pair him with Roma Dunce it's like this the what I've thought about the Chicago Bears is completely different but it is a fair amount a fair question to say is all this going to be happening right away in week one?

Because that's where I think some of this melts away when these become real games and you're scheming.

And we do have a lot more tape of Caleb Williams than we would have to the point of Pennex.

So I think that transition from preseason to week one is incredibly intriguing.

But it's also...

I see someone that can do magically things.

And it's already at deployment.

It's like, name three other quarterbacks that can make that throw in the league.

And it's like, he's one of those guys.

But I'd say there's other rookies out there that have put together maybe cleaner performances.

You look at the highs and the lows.

We were talking about this, Justin, but I all think it matters a lot because this preseason to me is spicier than any I can recall in eons because of these quarterbacks.

Like, it is functionally like you're learning so much about what they can do right here, and I think Caleb Williams is 1A in that conversation.

Yeah, number one overall pick.

We've talked about him last week, too.

He looked good after one week.

He looked good after two weeks.

I'd be very surprised if they play him in the finale on Thursday against the Chiefs because he's an example.

We talk about Pennex, like what can you take out of the first preseason game,

and then you kind of put him on ice.

And getting two good looks at this guy and the throws that he can make, I really, Connor, I don't know about you, but I do, I feel really confident in a way I have felt with very few prospects, rookies, no matter where their draft standing is.

Maybe, maybe Trevor Lawrence

in the recent times where it's like, I know this guy is going to hit the ground running, and I think it will be an instant impact.

I think he's going to be the story of the season early on.

I really believe that.

And if I'm wrong,

I'll say I'm wrong, and I'll feel bad for Bears fans.

But even if he doesn't hit the ground running, they still have a really bright future with him.

But I do think the way this is set up, Connor, he could be an immediate difference maker at a high level, and that will turn the entire NFC on its ear.

I think he can because so much of this is still like genetic.

And I was talking to someone about this the other day about the Olympics, right?

And so we, over like a hundred years, we evolved all of these things to try to make ourselves faster as human beings.

And I think the hundred meter dash record got like 0.3 seconds faster.

And we used to run with these like leather spikes with claws in the front on ash tracks, you know, and now we run on like springboard basically, you know?

And so Caleb Williams has this thing that is always going to make him, he has a lot of things that are just going to make him naturally better and naturally more gifted as a quarterback.

And one of the things that I was thinking about, I did this story on Patrick Mahomes a long time ago, and I talked to his like personal health guru person, and he was saying that no one has a spine and neck rotation like Patrick Mahomes.

Like it's almost like that of an owl where you can turn your head almost like 360 degrees and you can literally see in the back of your head almost.

And so watch Caleb Williams in these games where he can see things that other people just can't see.

And like, you know, when you're playing Madden, at least the old one, right?

And the quarterback's like facing backwards and the game messes up and he somehow like throws a forward pass.

Like Caleb Williams can do that in real life.

And so the one what if for me is can you pair him with an offensive coordinator that can get him to do that on some degree of schedule like Andy Reid could with Patrick Mahomes?

That's all that matters.

Everything else he has.

We know that.

And I think we can prove that if we were to measure his owlness, for example.

Gravedigger, give us one.

Yes.

All right.

I am.

Tell me if this matters because I was watching preseason football this weekend, punishing myself with some games, you know, like Josh Johnson versus Taylor Heineke.

And I watched the Steelers game.

This Steelers offense is bad.

It's really bad.

Russell Wilson led five drives.

On those five drives, he took three sacks in five drives, two and a half sacks from Greg Rousseau in the first five plays of the game against Broderick Jones, who's a second-year tackle, former first-round pick, who they're counting on to start, dealt with some injury stuff last year.

Doesn't look like he's ready to be a starting tackle.

And the whole O-line looks pretty bad.

Wilson looks like he did in Denver the last couple years.

Their five drives totaled 34 yards, including three three and outs, four punts, one missed field goal.

So they got into field goal range, but even then, they couldn't convert and get points out of it.

Then Justin Fields comes in after those first five drives and played the entire rest of the game.

So you have Russell Wilson and Justin Fields, two guys who are starting, in air quotes, level quarterbacks, and they managed to score three points for the entire game, most of it against backups.

And then to add insult to injury, or maybe to add injury to the insults that I'm throwing out here, Jalen Warren pulls a hamstring.

His status for week one now in jeopardy.

Expected to miss multiple weeks.

Starting center Nate Herbig suffered a torn rotator cuff.

He's expected to miss a significant amount of time, possibly the entire season.

That'll push second round rookie Zach Frazier into the starting role.

I will say Zach Frazier played well.

He was like the one bright spot in this game for the Steelers offense.

But outside of that, I'm deeply concerned.

Cordero Patterson's like mixing in as a running back because Arthur Smith is the obvious coordinator now.

And so how he has to mix in.

Cordero Patterson, I guess.

I'm worried about Najee Harris, Jalen Warren, from a fantasy standpoint.

Jalen Warren's now hurt.

I am very, very concerned that the Steelers could have one of, if not the worst, offenses in the league.

Am I overreacting to a preseason game or does this matter?

Even when Herbig was healthy in that first preseason game, and these guys have been practicing for months, he and Justin Fields had two critical misconnections that caused fumbles.

And so the first look we had of Justin Fields, because you can talk about how electric he's going to be and how it's going to change Pittsburgh's offense and the Arthur Smith and et cetera, et cetera, but it looked like they hadn't practiced together in our first look at Justin Fields.

And a lot of the, you know, we're talking about the stuff that players bring that's the upside, and he's got that, but the stuff that was turning Justin Fields off to Bears fans during that duration of his run there was ever present in the Pittsburgh debut.

And Russell Wilson to me is just like, okay, this is not the same guy that we watched earlier on last decade and before.

It's like this guy is just not the same player.

And there was those interesting stories that came out of Denver that, you know, mid-season through his first season there, that he didn't know what he was doing pre-snap, that there was just confusion, that he wasn't grasping the offense.

And if it looks like that on a new team, and it's not like Arthur Smith's the guy that you could trust to go amp up the quarterback position,

he likes to do a lot of things.

It's not necessarily that.

That's not his hallmark.

And so, yeah, I think there's concern, and especially when you see their offensive line getting dominated, they were against the Bills.

That was their problem a couple years ago.

They put a lot of investment in there, and you don't want to see that when you're still playing a certain level scattering of starters and backups.

It makes me think of a couple years ago, right, when Russell Wilson was literally benched for the field goal kicker at the end of Nathaniel Hackett's first game.

And you think back at what a stunning thing that was to do at the time uh as a brand new head coach in your first game but how it kind of makes sense at this point because he's either lost himself as a player or we've lost what made him good in the first place and i know a lot of those coaches that worked on that offense in seattle and basically what it was was it was the opposite of like you're not you're trying not to let him cook you you don't want him to cook you want to be what's the uh blue not blue buffalo that's the dog food what's the blue apron blue apron you You want it to be blue apron.

You want it to be cooked.

You want it to show up to your door, and you want it to be basically an amalgam of like the eight things that he does really well.

And so either the coaches have lost that trail of breadcrumbs and misunderstand that, or Russell has fundamentally changed the player.

And I think it's kind of a combination of both of those things.

Shout out Blue Apron if you're looking to sponsor Heed the Call.

It reminds me of the old, although I do, I have

interest in seeing what Justin Fields can do in a new setup because I think there's potentially something untapped there.

Yeah, it shouldn't be a surprise at any point if Russell Wilson is this, because he's been this for a couple of years and it reminds me of the old parcelsism: when you have two quarterbacks, you don't have any.

We shall see.

It's too soon to say it's just the preseason, but not a good start.

All right, let's take a break, and when we get back, we'll spin through a couple more times.

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All right, we are back

and we're going to get back into the preseason.

But I did want to, over the weekend, very hectic these summer weekends with the boys and the family and the different things going on.

But I did get a phone call, developing news, in fact.

Did get a phone call.

Was not expecting it.

And it was, Justin, it connects to you.

It was actually a surprise call from

Jessica's father

over the weekend.

Now, for those that didn't know, last weekend, Justin let us know that he had traveled to Switzerland.

Connor

had traveled to Switzerland to ask for his

girlfriend's hand in marriage from the husband,

from the father, excuse me.

And it went well.

From what we understand, there's a language barrier.

But I did get this surprise call, and

I'll just share it with you.

Non mi piase Justin, nes una Yankees poestra, mia figiglia.

Cose communique un un pegno preliminare.

Mark, can you translate that?

Yes, well versed in Italian.

Based on what you just said, it's I don't like Justin.

No Yankee is going to marry my daughter.

What is a pre-engagement anyway?

Quote.

Toughy.

Toughy, I agree.

Yeah.

I mean,

he speaks Italian, but he's not Italian.

He's Swiss.

Give me some Swiss music, because

I'll translate the rest of the message that he left for me.

He said, and this is again, I'm just, don't shoot the messenger, but this maybe is going to help you.

When I was a younger man, I asked her for permission for a hand in marriage at 3 p.m., and she was my wife by dinner.

This adjusted is

too how you say jumpy.

One day at National Football League, and then at Foxo, now at the Underdogo.

I don't trust him.

So these are just a heads up.

The good news is that

despite the language barrier, I think I talked him off the ledge.

I just wouldn't wait too much longer with this pre-engagement thing because there is definitely a conflict.

Wait, I just got a text.

Okay, I got another text from him.

It says, I don't trust him.

So,

well, now I'm wondering if I can show this bit to Jessica.

You know, as I was pulling music for, I had no idea why I was pulling Italian and Swiss music.

Jessica's like, oh, I can't wait to hear this later.

And now I'm like, are you going to be offended by

this?

Maybe.

Again,

don't shoot the messenger on this one.

I think he still likes you, but there's an impatience that's creeping in about this pre-engagement.

And let's be real, Mark.

This pre-engagement's been going on for multiple years now.

Yeah, well, you know.

Yes, that's true.

I need to get on the proposal.

I'm forming plans, and I'll update the listeners when the ring is on the finger.

You know, parents, as they have children that are adults themselves, are very often laser-focused on the concept of grandchildren.

So, like, an engagement that goes on for half a decade with a lot of, you know, machinations could be probably frustrating to them.

But big spot for Underdoggo.

I don't think they knew that was coming.

All right, let's get back to it.

And you know what?

Let's go from Switzerland to the kicker club, baby.

The grounds of the kicker club is actually, in the offseason, a non-profit

food bank pantry.

Thank you very much.

But we had no choice but to toss all the food in the dumpster and beat up the beat after Brandon Aubrey drilled a 66-yard field goal in the Cowboys' 27-12 preseason win over the Raiders on Saturday night in the desert.

66 yards.

It would have equaled the NFL record set by Justin Tucker of the Ravens in 2021 had it been the regular season.

But here's the thing, boys.

That kick landed in the net.

The GD net.

Tucker, you'll remember famously against the Lions hit the crossbar and bounced over.

This thing hit the net.

In fact,

according to Next Gen stats, the kick had a field goal probability of 8%.

It would have been good from 72%.

And this matters.

And I'll tell you why this matters, because we are seeing it more and more, even from Mark, when you and I started covering the league with NFL Media.

Connor, you around the same time as when you began your career as a beat writer,

how much the kicking game has advanced just in the last 15 years, that we're going to see more and more of these.

And we did.

We saw it last year.

I mean, 50-yard used to be like, hey, you're hoping, crossing fingers, and it's a coin flip.

Hell, when Scott Norwood went wide right in Super Bowl 25, that would have been his longest kick of the year from 47.

Kickers like Brandon Aubrey, they are the new normal.

He's obviously at a higher level, but the idea of a 60-yard field goal is, I think, going to start becoming what the 50-yard field goal was.

And it's not going to be long now before we see the 70-yard.

And that's going to essentially lead to changes in how the sport is played because the athleticism and the advances made in these kickers is going to continue to be a big deal.

And that's set against the backdrop, Connor, of the new kickoff rule.

So I just want to share that with you, buddy.

We always make the comparison between kickers and golfers.

and I think it's apt here, right?

Where we had golfers as a kind of class of people for years, and then you have Tiger Woods, like someone who actually was in shape and worked out and, you know, cared about his body versus like John Daly, and he's like striping 400-yard drives, and everyone's like, wow, this is different.

Now, like, Bryson DeChambeau and all these guys are, with regularity, you know, crushing the, crushing the ball.

They're weight training.

They're doing things that golfers haven't done before.

Similarly with kickers, not only is there exercise, health, nutrition, all all that, but at some point there will be like a Cam Newton-sized kicker, and he will just be able to like blast the football.

And it'll be like Steph Curry in the NBA almost, where it's like

it's indefendable, and that will be pretty neat.

And you're starting to see because of the new kicking rule that, and Justin Tucker, the GOAT himself, talked about how he beefed up this offseason because he knows he's going to be involved in special teams beyond just kicking it through the back of the end zone.

These guys are going to train in college to be bigger for that facet of the game.

It's going to be crazy.

And let me now just move to the other side of this game and we'll move away from the kicker club.

Wait, Dan, before you move away from the kicker club, you should note Evan McPherson signed a three-year, $16.5 million extension over the weekend.

That's cool.

Kickers getting paid.

Worth every dime.

I mean, when you talk about that Bengals Super Bowl run a couple years ago, everybody wants to talk about Joe Burrow and everybody else.

It was McPherson who carried that team to the Super Bowl, and they nearly won the damn thing.

So the race.

one counterpoint to you,

we are trying to speed the pace just

an owl, like an owl head genetic element to these kickers, too.

And I think that's that's true.

The variants are the best of them.

But, and McPherson, I believe, was 40 for 40 on extra points last year, and when he's good, he's good.

But we still have clowns on a weekly basis missing extra points.

So, the lower chunk of these people need to up their game because that is at this point, that is almost intolerable that people are missing extra points when they're then banging in a 55-yarder, a 60-yarder.

I don't have that.

I feel like you came down on them a little hard.

Clowns.

I mean, they're doing their very best.

They're doing their best.

Not funny clowns, but clownish behavior.

Fair point.

Fair point.

The craft hasn't been perfected, not by any means.

The Raider side of things, Antonio Pierce named Gardner Mean Chu, the starter for week one for the Raiders this coming after both Mean Chu and Aiden O'Connell underwhelmed both in the two preseason games that we've seen so far and also based on camp reports.

Neither guy really stood out, but Pierce had a go with someone, and it will be the veteran who's obviously bouncing around the league, came off a pretty solid performance overall with Indianapolis after Anthony Richardson went down.

He looks the part as a Raider Mean Chu, but will he be able to act the part of a true starting quarterback?

Well, he's going to get the chance.

Here's Pierce on that.

Garden Mitchell is going to be the starting quarterback

this 2024 season.

Myself, Tolesco, and Lou Getze discussed it this morning.

A lot of things went into it.

It wasn't based off of last night.

There's a lot of factors.

So we feel like Gardner gives us the best opportunity to get off to a fast start, and that's what we're going with.

We support him.

Our team's behind it.

Our staffs behind it.

Our organization's behind it.

It's going to be tough to really gauge what to expect from the Raiders this year.

We're going to do our our higher-lower win totals, I believe, next week.

I feel pretty good about what direction I want to go with the Raiders.

The quarterback position is just a part of that, but it is an important part of it.

It should be known that Minshew signed a two-year, $25 million deal to join.

Vegas, while O'Connell is a former fourth-round pick who's making less than a million bucks this year.

So it tracks that they would give Minshew the reins, but it would not surprise me, Mark, if you see both guys this year.

Well,

we've sussed this out with teams for so long.

It's like, you know, you're going to see both.

I would say Minshew, if I were to rank him, like, is maybe the second or third favorite backup of mine.

It was a good spot starter.

And Minshew's numbers over the years are spicier than you'd think.

But it's an untenable scenario.

And they got caught in that trap where...

You know, Bonix was taken a pick before them by their division rival, and then six quarterbacks were off the board, and they take a tight end after they took a tight end in the second second round last year.

Those are good.

I like the double tight end combo, but they just got left out, thrown out of a moving car when it came to the quarterback situation and they were not able to solve it.

I don't like it at all.

And I'm with you.

Yeah, I'm with you that Minshew is a guy who knows how to find ways to win.

But also, I know Antonio Pierce doesn't want to hear this, and I'm sure Mark Davis doesn't want this to happen.

Man, a team going 3-14 would not be the worst situation to let them reset and actually get a true prospect at the game's most important position.

Connor, you're up.

All right.

So I.

Oh, what do you just say?

It doesn't matter.

Because I think the Raiders, with either guy, you know, it is what it is.

I love watching the Raiders.

They're a fun team, but I think Raiders fans know this is kind of a strange bridge transition year.

I would say it doesn't really matter.

Okay, now, Connor, go ahead.

Call Ryan Tannehill.

Shoot, Tannehill doesn't have a job.

I do love how Antonio Pierce was like, we met at three o'clock and we had a conversation, and like, like, this, like, this was like a like a conversation like before you like invade a country or something, when really it was just like three or four guys around a table being like, God damn it, like, we have

nothing.

We go.

This really sucks that this, these are the options.

It does set up, it does set up that Devontae Adams trade deadline thing in a real way this year that could be one of the spicier deadline moves that a team makes in a long time.

Okay, what kind of mood do you think he's in?

Move along.

I have a preseason game that matted Dan for like a million different reasons, and you can just tell me to stop when you want me to stop.

I'm just very excited about this.

So, New Orleans and San Francisco.

So, you have Brock Purdy, a guy that they're preparing to pay $55 plus million dollars next year, playing against a starting defense with none of his starting offensive line or skill position players, and Kyle Shanahan not calling the plays.

How many quarterbacks that you're completely certain of do you do that to?

And the amount of frustration that was in Brock Purdy's face when he's just chucking footballs and no one's there and the narrative is that he's playing well when in reality, he just doesn't have Brandon Ayuk and Debo Samuel and Christian McCaffrey and Kyle Shanahan calling the plays.

And I do think Brock Purdy's good and that's for a conversation for another day.

But the reality that you're allowing this narrative to build is just fascinating and amazing.

And then the flip side of this, guys, we have a Kyle Shanahan protege that's trying to run this offense with nothing.

And it's one of these things where all the other Kyle Shanahan proteges had really special things, right?

Like Mike McDaniel goes to Miami and has speed unlike anything else.

And that can dictate the defense and put them in position where you want to.

49ers have the most, you know, dualistic players in the NFL, like five different guys who could play two positions.

The Saints are now throwing Taysom Mill at fullback to be like, let's see if this shakes him up a little bit, like a 32-year-old, like in pain, you you know white guy just blocking people you know and like let's see if that matters and so i loved this game i loved this game for a hundred reasons and i watched like way more of it than i should have so dan it it matters baby all right connor taysum hill turns 34 in four days

He was

like a fullback the whole game.

Like,

he must be in so much pain.

We need to help.

He needs some.

Yeah,

It looked like a 1970s ground game.

I mean, it was just sort of insane to watch.

He did throw some awesome blocks in that game, though.

He really did.

I mean, they're getting their money's worth.

A lot of people thought it was an overpay of Taysom Hill

relative to his actual worth as a gadget player.

But, man, they find a way to use him.

Mark, do you have it?

You are the

supreme leader of the Brock Purdy Army.

Do you not like the idea

that the Niners went through the lengths that they went through to hung him out to dry a little bit in this game on some level?

Very weird.

I'm with Connor 100%.

It's baffling because I think everyone has been absorbed by the Brandon Ayuk thing.

I'm with myself also.

That was not me.

Trent Williams is in a, like, is holding out.

Trent Williams is like, they were trying to figure out where he was.

He was like out playing golf somewhere during all this.

It's like, I don't like that situation one bit.

You got to find a way to pay him because their offensive line is pretty hot and cold.

This is not like a five-guy across wall.

And without Trent Williams, and if you ever were to be missing Brandon Ayuk, like the team, everything that made Brock Purdy special, because I think, to your question, Dan, I think he's way better than a lot of people think he is when they try to trap him, that everything needs to be perfect around him.

That was a dire situation he was put in.

I mean, I like him a lot, but you start to strip away pieces, and Brock Purdy will have some of those games last year.

We started to question where he was going.

All right, I'll tinfoil it and then we'll move.

But, like,

what is the average salary per year for you know a top five quarterback now?

What are we talking?

50?

What is

55 million?

Maybe, Shanahan, it's not anything to take too seriously, but it's just something like, let me throw a little test out there for this guy and see what he can do in this situation before you make him, you know, like what the Dolphins, for instance, did with Tua.

Like, maybe there were unanswered questions, but they had to make a decision.

This gives them their one last look at Purdy before they change the franchise forever with a giant contract.

It's, I think, one of the better sub most interesting subplots of this year: the Niners, who keep getting right to the precipice of immortality.

And then they also now have to figure out some of the financial sides because they have so many star players, starting with the quarterback.

Ayuk, of course, continues to hang out there.

He's probably just going to come back.

Mark, you're up.

I was at a child's soccer game, my child's soccer game,

watching this indirectly on my face.

I'm just going to clarify, because nobody wants the voice.

Nobody wants the guy pulling up in the van and then watching somebody else's kids' soccer game.

So that's cool.

That's fair.

That's fair.

That would be disturbing to many of the parents there.

Look, I'm tracking what is happening

to Daniel Jones.

Most of my memories from the preseason, like when they would roll Aaron Rodgers out for like a drive drive or two drives, he'd just go eight for eight for 126 yards and two touchdowns and look like he was made out of gold.

And so when you get, you know, you're four or five years into the league,

there was a natural expectation that your veteran quarterbacks out there with a bunch of your starters, that's about as good as they're going to look against a bunch of non-schemed backups half the time.

And I'm watching Daniel Jones on the first pass of the game against the Texans.

Lucky this wasn't a pick, throws it right into the bread basket of Derek Stingley.

It's dropped.

Next possession, and this was the play that made the rounds, and then I saw it, and I was just like, I'm watching children play soccer with more skill than what I'm observing here.

He is in the end zone trying to avoid a safety, and instead of just whipping the ball out of bounds,

he unfurls a totally mind-boggling, panicked anti-dart that is picked off by Jalen Petrie.

Okay,

so then

later in the game, he whips a deep ball downfield, and this time Derek Singley's like, yes, I will intercept it.

Thank you very much.

Now, I will say this, because the Daniel Jones experience is

such a multicolored rainbow that he also had an incredibly athletic run.

He started to pick up the pieces and throw a lot better.

I think

the glass half full for a kind of weird Giants team, minus whatever you get from

Daniel Jones, is that Malik neighbors watching him in this game, hearing Connor talk about him, what all the practice reports.

This might be the biggest development on offense for the New York Giants in 10 years.

I really think that

he's going to have to work around some of the non-functional aspects that they might go through.

But this is a special player, and it's like you saw it in that game.

He wasn't perfect, but it's like what he had to do to catch some of those balls that were not on target.

Like, wow, I think Malik Neighbors is like, you're going to see about 7,000 Malik Neighbors jerseys in the next time they play in New York.

Can I ask, and there's no way to, you can't,

considering the amount of money Daniel Jones is making,

going out there in your first three possessions, you should probably throw in three interceptions and two pick sixes.

That's bad.

But maybe just a little bit of grace.

It's his first game back after the ACL tear.

Obviously, everybody's like, oh, he's year five by now.

He shouldn't be making it.

I mean, let him get his feet back under him.

I think that the Giants, it's the Giants' fault more than anything else.

And it always jumps out to me that

that run at the end of the regular season a couple years back and then beating a super overrated Vikings team that was nowhere close to what their record was that season in the first round of the playoffs.

overinflated Jones's price tag.

And the Giants, who are a smart organization, I'm often jealous of the Giants as a Jets fan because they just make better decisions than that.

And they paid him based on that late season run and not the greater picture.

He seems like an average to potentially a little better than average QB that is obviously not able to, that can make mistakes and is not far from a perfect product.

Like a guy that best case scenario is maybe right at the Dalton line.

So when everybody gets on him, it's because he's this high-paid guy and they picked him over Saquon.

But like Jones is what he is, and I don't think he's a big-time player, so he's going to make mistakes.

But also, to your point, Connor, Malik Neighbors, he like

Caleb Williams passes that immediate sniff test is like, oh, this guy's a superstar.

I think Slayton, there's definitely something there.

Dable getting a chance with a potential alpha dog wide receiver to make magic.

I'm not counting out the Giants or Daniel Jones in this offense.

So it does matter because you want your quarterback to give you something more than that.

But I'm just not hitting the panic button on it.

I'm not either.

That first pass to the one that Derek Stingley almost picked off, my immediate thought was that's a route that they're going to run like a hundred times this year.

And what you're basically saying to Malik neighbors is like, this is how I'm going to throw it.

And you have to wrestle this guy off your back.

It's a very physical route.

And it might be something that neighbors just isn't necessarily used to.

Like Stingley went like through his armpit to make that play.

And it was a phenomenal play.

And I do think it was one of those good moments for them where they can go back and be like, all right, this is how this is going to look moving forward.

But to your point, I mean, I've always said this, Daniel Jones needs to run in order to be successful, but he's not built as a running quarterback.

And Brian Dable needs him to at least have that faint threat of like a Josh Allen type movement in order to run the offense the way that he wants.

But Daniel Jones gets hurt when you run him like that.

And so this was really a big preseason for him to be like, high volume reps.

It's all 11 on 11.

See if you can become that quarterback.

And it didn't look like it, but

Jury's out for me.

I'm still open to believing that Daniel Jones can do this, even though I predicted that Drew Locke would start a majority of the games this season.

I was expecting better with the beard after we talked about it last week.

He went from the beard five to a 7.1 looks-wise.

And, Mark, I know that you are not saying this.

That's not what your conceit was, I don't believe.

But there is a general vibe out there.

Like, I saw some headline, I think ESPN, what's their morning show?

Get up.

It was like

Orlofsky on Daniel Jones, Colin.

It's over.

It's like,

Evan, chill.

Let's chill it out.

Let's chill it out.

Let's give him a little more time.

Right, because I think the trap with some of these,

you know, these topics, it's like, I'm not flaming Daniel.

I've probably been higher on Daniel Jones for what he can do athletically than some people were.

I just thought it's like, to Connor's point, that it's a big off-season, a big training camp, a big preseason for him.

Like, you kind of wanted to get out of this exercise without being, like, without all this giggling happing about who you are.

It's like, and you're just, you know, so I feel kind of bad for him.

Because the one thing he mentioned after that, after the game was he went out of his way to thank the training staff and thank everyone that helped him through a very trying offseason.

And that kind of just tells me, like, or raises the question, like, mentally, do you feel fully comfortable out there?

Or is that in the way of all your already existing issues as a starting quarterback?

for me, it raised some flags, but I'm not like, I'm not, you know, I didn't like set my hair on fire and burn down my apartment building over it.

You know, there's another week here.

I think, yeah, I think that's a great point.

There was a, for him, maybe Daniel Jones, a success and totally understandable.

That's a devastating knee injury, reconstructive knee surgery he had.

Getting back on the field.

Okay, that's a huge check mark.

Did he play well?

No, but he has time.

And Dable

with a quarterback who could move like Josh Allen, with a true wide receiver one potentially, like you once had with Stefan Diggs.

Let's just see what happens.

Let's just see.

Giants fans are looking to see, but they're also noivous.

They sure are.

Justin, go ahead.

All right.

I'll take the low-hanging fruit for my next one here.

This is probably the top topic on every other podcast, recapping preseason action, but I haven't listened to any of those because I don't want my takes to be influenced.

So I'll just do it now.

Everybody, this

epics off the charts.

I appreciate it.

Patrick Mahomes threw a behind-the-back pass in a game.

Does it matter?

I think it,

let's listen to it because I thought it was interesting

his conversation when asked about it.

Let's listen into Pat.

Long story short, Travis didn't run the route he was supposed to run, and then it was kind of a behind-the-back pass, kind of because I was mad.

I was pissed off at Travis.

He was supposed to run a flat route.

I don't know if you can hear me on the broadcast.

I'm yelling at him, and then he doesn't run it.

So out of spite, I do a behind-the-back pass, but now it's going to be a highlight.

All right, we're going to play part two next because I want to we're going to listen to this, and then I have a theory I want to throw your guys's way.

Throw it back to the telecast.

Oh, that's awesome because you just improvised it.

Is that what you're telling us?

Is it just all improv?

100%.

That's what I've been trying to say to everybody.

It can't be planned.

It's got to be just naturally happening, kind of in the groove of things.

And so I actually forgot about it until halftime.

Someone actually brought it up to me.

And it wasn't like I planned that at all, or it wasn't a call to play.

It just kind of happened.

All right.

You're with me, Connie.

You don't believe that for a second, do you?

I'm sick of like this.

Okay, this made me mad for so.

I don't, I, I, this is a genuine emotional reaction in the moment, I swear.

Uh, and it just touches like a chord for me because, um, being a poor athlete for my entire life, when you hear like a very gifted athlete be like, I didn't even remember doing that, it's like it really pisses you off because you know that they did, right?

And you know that he's going to talk about it in like his Michael Jordan documentary when he retires, and they'll be like, Yeah, I know that that pass changed the game that day, you know, or whatever he's going to say.

But

the whole thing is dumb because every quarterback in the NFL can complete that pass, but no other quarterback is secure enough in his financial future and in his status as the starter of the team to be able to do something so asinine in the middle of a football game.

Like, you know, and I appreciate it.

It's a very neat thing.

I'm very happy that Patrick Mahomes can do that.

There are, you know,

gosh, like, I'm trying to think of like a great example.

Like, the chief political reporter at the New York Times can show up in a bathing suit and flip his desk over because he's the most well-sourced political reporter in the country.

If my first day as an intern there, if I were to ever walk in there, I'm not able to do that, even though I could flip a desk over and wear a bathing suit.

What a weird analogy that was.

I was with you, a track, the whole time.

Does it make sense?

So I appreciate it, but like every quarterback in the NFL can throw a behind-the-back pass, every single one, and can complete it to Travis Kelsey in a game, but none of them are allowed to do that.

I think you made a great call.

And Mahomes, he's kind of in that Steph Curry zone where he's ascended to such a high place and he can do things that no one else can do, even if your point is right.

Anybody could do that.

They just don't have the ability to do it.

That he has this ability to do it and everybody just kind of laughs it off.

But if Daniel Jones did it, Dan Orlofsky's head would explode on live television in front of the Hudson River today.

So it's just like, it really matters who you are.

I think what I was going to say, and I thought where you were going with it, although I'm happy where you took it, was that I think it absolutely is in the playbook.

I think it's something that maybe even he's a little annoyed after the fact he's like, oh, we should have saved that for a game that counted.

And I will say that it's going to happen again this season because they are at the point, Mark, where

how many mountains are left to climb?

I mean, you've won three out of five years.

Mahomes has already secured his place amongst the all-time greats.

Kelsey, the same thing.

We might get a Chiefs offense that starts to just have some fun.

Yeah, I mean, and I can't wait for the

deep state metric that shows, you know, five years from now which quarterbacks have

accrued the most yardage with backward passes.

I mean, it's also not surprising because Kelsey has been doing this in practice reportedly

for eons, that they're constantly improvising.

For like three years, they've been practicing the behind the right.

They're like a couple of jazz musicians on like five whiskeys at this point.

So

it's not surprising and I'm not surprising they pulled it off.

All right.

One more note on this game before we move on.

Xavier Worthy, I know there was a lot of concern about him weighing less than I do, but he had a really nice 39-yard connection with Mahomes on the first drive and then came back on the second drive, had that like across the field sort of slot fade-ish type of route, not really, but deep post maybe.

Hits him with a stutter step and then just explodes to the corner of the end zone.

Carson Wentz just lofts it out there for him.

He is going to be a problem.

I don't care that he weighs 160 pounds and he's going to have some press coverage issues at times, but he's also just going to be the guy going in motion at the snap almost every time to avoid that.

And there is going to be a highlight reel worth of deep plays this season between Mahomes and Worthy.

I guess my concern is, yeah, what happens when the safety smokes him as you get back up.

But that is like the

exciting.

And we talked about it last week.

Who's going to step up?

We still don't know what's going on with Rashid Rice.

If Worthy could be an instant difference maker, that's fun.

How about we go one, go around a little 8 o'clock delight to wrap things up here?

Does that work for everybody?

A little 8 o'clock delight.

And we're going to start it with the Sess Dog.

All right.

Well, here's what matters

is the performance of Bo Nix over two games.

And I think for the Broncos fan out there, it's been a wilderness under center.

He fits really well in Sean Payton's system.

What doesn't matter is Sean Payton being very Sean Payton-y at the end of the game, trying to sell us on the idea that he doesn't know who his starting quarterback is yet.

Yes, you do.

All right, for all the belly aching about,

you know, the Patriots not playing Drake May much in the first game, he plays quite a bit in the second game, and he does well, and he shows things that he can do that Jake Brisket, quite frankly, cannot.

His athleticism making plays off-platform.

He didn't take any reps with the first team to this point, but I still think he's going to be their starting starting quarterback sooner rather than later because what you saw there is a team that's in developmental stage that has a young quarterback who's going to be able to make things happen, get him on the field sooner rather than later.

Connor.

All right, I think nobody's talking about the fact that Jaden Daniels is throwing his receivers open probably better than any other rookie quarterback in the preseason.

Saw this against really elite defensive back play when they practiced with the Jets and it saw it again with the Dolphins this weekend.

1.9 snap to throw time.

And Jaden Daniels told me this before the draft.

He used to wear these vision goggles at LSU that had the opposing stadium that he was going to play in, the playbook, everything, and he used it to almost robotically increase his decision-making time and speed.

He is a technologically built cyborg and he is going to take over the NFL.

Gravedigger.

I'm taking Jaden Daniels' early offensive rookie of the year pick.

A couple tiny, tiny things.

Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, Mac Jones started the game, but Parker Washington looks like a guy who's been been getting a lot of camp buzz.

He disappointed as a rookie, but he had a pretty good game in this one.

And then there is a player that I've never heard of named Jose Ramirez, a second-year former sixth-round pick of the Bucs, had three sacks in this game.

Also, we didn't talk about the fact that Randy Gregory was signed by the Bucs this offseason and then mysteriously just never reported or showed up to camp and he's been cut.

This Jose Ramirez guy might be important to their pass rush.

Three sacks.

I know it's preseason, but three sacks.

And I'll close with Trey Lance, quarterback, Dallas Cowboys, QB1, 2025.

Talk about it, Orlofsky.

No.

Anybody else?

No, he played well.

He played well, but, you know, it's Dax team.

I got one quick one.

Anybody else?

Anything else?

I got a quick one.

Time's running out.

So.

Cleveland has no left tackle.

Jed Wills is hurt.

Jack Conklin on the POP coming off.

He's missed 29 games in three years.

In this game against Minnesota where they barely played any starters, they did not escape.

They did not get out of the woods.

James Hudson, Jermaine Ifetti, Hakeem Adenerjee, all tackles, all hurt in this game.

Status TBD.

Not a great situation when you're a couple weeks out from the regular season.

Also, Minnesota signs Stephon Gilmore.

Well done.

Well done.

Sorry to Cardinals and Colts fans.

You didn't make it in.

Maybe next time.

Zumwalt's fired up.

Sorry, Jay.

Hey, new social handles.

A little housekeeping here.

At Heed the Call.

Pod on Twitter and Instagram.

Also on TikTok now.

The YouTube channel.

You can watch every episode at Underdog NFL.

Be sure to subscribe to that channel and like the video.

Our subreddit is, I think, approaching around 8,000.

How about the 10K challenge this week?

If you are a fan of the show and you like to talk about the show, the subreddit is the place to be.

We want to get that thing to 10,000 by the end of the week.

And if we don't, I would say Mark might fire off a sternly worded letter.

Does that sound right, Mark?

Yeah, maybe even, well, I don't want to, I'd say on the subreddit, but then maybe they don't add up just to get that shenanigans going.

I would be displeased with our audience if we can't get to 10.

It shouldn't be hard.

Please leave.

Thank you, Mark.

Please leave five-star reviews wherever you listen to your podcast to help us climb Dem charts.

Someone sent it to me.

I wish I could give you the shout out.

But on the day the Premier League season launched, we were the number one sports podcast in the UK, which is freaking awesome.

So thank you so much.

And finally,

if you want to support this new show, make our bosses happy, that's important.

You can start by playing on Underdog today,

where it is available in your region.

Download the Underdog Fantasy app, sign up with the code HTC, and receive up to how much, Justin?

$1,000 now as of today in bonus cash.

So,

Dan Williams.

Shout out Dan Williams.

He's the tweeter on the Premier League.

Oh, good job.

Thank you, Danny Dubbs.

For our U.S.

audience only, by the way,

and thank you.

And once again, we need the Connor Orr theme song.

We're looking for something in the vein of the Grateful Dead.

30 seconds or less.

What a challenge that is, but I know you people have it in you.

What a musical group.

Connor, you've said it all.

Anything else to add?

No,

this is great.

I'm loving this, and I hope to be back soon.

Mark, what do you have to say?

It's a surreal dream to be hanging out with Connor and all the guys.

Say that again.

Sorry.

The rapturous applause drowned you out there, Mark.

I just suggested that it's been a surreal dream to do that.

I'm not doing that again.

I'm not doing that again.

Okay, well, maybe, maybe, maybe next show.

Hey, speaking of next show.

Speaking of next show, one of our favorite recurring segments.

We're going around the AFC and the NFC in an

undetermined amount of time.

On Wednesday's show and also Friday's show, we'll start with the AFC with very special guests to come, somebody we know you guys like.

So make sure you're there for that.

And

that's that.

Anything else, Gravedigger?

Housekeeping, we're good.

I think, yeah, we're good.

Juju Brenz hurt his nose, Colts fans.

There you go.

Don't say I hate the Colts.

Bang.

Got him.

All right.

What about the Cardinals?

Cardinals, Clayton Toon started.

Who cares?

All right.

Oh, I have an item before we say goodbye.

There was a retirement.

There was a retirement, a Cardinals-ish-related retirement.

And how about that?

So

quarterback Colt McCoy, who starred for those hook'em horns and then played 14 seasons with five teams,

and Mark's son is named after that man.

I love him.

He has announced his retirement and,

you know, he is going into broadcasting.

Where is he broadcasting?

Has that been announced?

Yeah, it has been announced.

He's actually going to be a colleague of ours.

Oh, underdog.

Underdog.

Sess dog.

Sess dog.

Wait a second.

I mean, Colt McCoy.

Yeah, I love it.

There are whispers.

I am experiencing enjoyment.

Justin is on acid right now.

We're right back where we started.

There are whispers that we may at some stage be going out for dinner with Colt McCoy if we can arrange it.

And that literally brings a tingle to the whole body.

I did name my son after him when he was a Browns quarterback.

They had that famous game where they executed the New England Patriots, where I'm convinced Tom Brady was drugged that day.

Browns offensive coordinator, Eric Mangini, was Brian Dayball for that game.

So a lot of future destinies tangling.

But Call McCoy, one of the more

interesting, lovable backups in the league for many years and a great teammate, and now one of ours.

So I'm a little nervous.

I'm fanning out a little bit.

I did follow him on a couple social media platforms and have not received a follow back.

So monitoring that closely in there.

He's probably busy.

Big day for him.

Connor,

what really we need to get

cameras on is it's more than whispers.

There is a dinner that's being organized by Tim at Underdog

for a lot of the new people.

No, not Belichick.

That's notable now that I think about it.

Maybe we could reach out and see if we could get Bill at this dinner here in LA.

But you got Gravedigger, who's like the biggest Texas Longhorns fan you'll find.

So the Colt McCoy legend is strong.

You got Sess Dog, who the warm and fuzzy feelings you just heard,

the idea of Colt being seated in between the two of them, or maybe Justin pulls a move where he freezes out the Sess Dog and Sess is on the other side of the table.

You want to bring back the quiet storm.

That will do it.

There's going to be a lot of drama about the scenic arrangement at this dinner, and I'm just going to be there for it, you know, eating buffalo wings and drinking Tito's and soda.

I'm i'm going to stay out of the way and just see what unfolds you're in the best possible spot because there's nothing worse than going to a dinner like the benny hana episode of the office and you're concerned about your proximity to the person that you need to talk to um

so that uh that's a really that's a really good spot to be just titos and and titos and some boneless and you know even bring your air pods i mean you don't really need to be logged into this one it seems like that no no hold on though see that this is a situation i can already see what's going to happen like Justin will get his, like, Texas lines in there, and, like, I'll try to talk to Colt a little bit.

Like, Dan, because there's no pressure on Dan, and like, there will be a number of tumblers of Tito's being served.

He's going to star, and he's going to star, and like, Colt's going to be like, that guy, I don't know, those other two were a little pandering, but that guy was a joy to talk to.

Mark's going to wait until the very end of the dinner and just be like, I name my son after you.

Like,

I just had to get that out, you know.

You're right, Mark.

Mixing some Tito's with a no-pressure scenario will put me in the best.

But I will say, because Mark, you're one of my best friends, and I love you, that the original idea that was put out there was that we might be going golfing.

And

I knew Mark was like, didn't want to do that.

Would not put him in the right greatest light because you're not a golfer.

I was interested in the idea.

But I got on board with you, Mark.

I said, I don't want Mark to feel uncomfortable in that type of setting.

So this dinner setting, while it's fraught in its own ways, is way better than you taking out the driver for the first time since 1997.

Oh, not even 97.

Like, I have no memory of ever actually playing golf ever.

So I, I, you know, we are business partners, Dan.

So having us go out there, and let's say you played a serviceable game.

I know you golf a little bit, but then I am like an absolute mental patient and they're like, you know, 10 minutes into it, and I have a sunburn and don't even know what I'm doing.

Like, that doesn't help you either.

So

I think we got on board in the correct way there.

No, that, yeah, you're right about that.

I think this will put us in a much better position to make a good first impression.

So we'll have all that for you in a couple of weeks.

I'll tell you how that dinner goes.

Thank you to everybody for listening.

Until next time, you know what you must do.

Heat the call.

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