Hot Butts Week 11 Check-In: Head Coaches on the Hot Seat

Speaker 1 Here's the issue, Mark. You and I are aging, and

Speaker 1 it's hard to stop that.

Speaker 2 Nope. It's problematic.

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Speaker 1 Where are we putting him?

Speaker 2 I keep him in this category, but it's like with a TBD attached to it and asking I think that's kind of cheating, though, Sese.

Speaker 6 We gotta, we sese's putting him in a category of I feel pretty good now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, wait a second, I got this. Listen, it's our show, we can do anything we want.

Speaker 3 New category, rule change, rule change.

Speaker 1 Sean McDermott goes into his own category called I feel pretty good.

Speaker 3 Yes, pretty good.

Speaker 2 That feels pretty right.

Speaker 1 Hey, oh, welcome to Heed the Call, NFL podcast.

Speaker 1 Dan Hans is here, joined as always by my life partner, Mark Sessler.

Speaker 3 Ooh la la.

Speaker 1 Mark, is that an overcoat?

Speaker 3 Yes. Daddy likes daddy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm getting, you know, Christmassy around here. I've spent the morning putting up a bunch of Christmas decorations just to adorn the apartment.

Speaker 1 You definitely did.

Speaker 3 I definitely did.

Speaker 2 I don't even own any Christmas decorations, but the idea

Speaker 2 is...

Speaker 1 Like, when December comes around, does the Hollywood dungeon get a little Christmas spruce up, or is that stay like blacked out curtains, chains stay on the wall? Like, is there a tree?

Speaker 1 Maybe it's a black tree?

Speaker 1 Or is that just a different area of your life that you keep? It's secular.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 that would hark back to my childhood. We also,

Speaker 2 we have a cat here, and if you bring in sort of a tree type item, it's just utter chaos, and it's like, I don't need that.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 Another reason to put the tree in the dungeon, because I assume the cat doesn't go in the dungeon, because the dungeon's different.

Speaker 3 Well, don't assume anything.

Speaker 2 Don't assume anything, then.

Speaker 1 Gonna get ASPCA on this case.

Speaker 2 It's a football podcast.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 fun show today. End around Wednesday.
We're gonna have Jimmy Palmer joining us in just a few minutes.

Speaker 1 And we're gonna check in on the Hot Butt coach's carousel carousel on a week where Brian Dable

Speaker 1 met his maker. Love the New York Post.
New York Post has this weird fetish for

Speaker 1 kind of like, you know, how a dog or a pig or whatever will roll in its filth for fun?

Speaker 3 Sure.

Speaker 1 Or whatever the reason is.

Speaker 1 The New York Post will roll in the filth of a coach's bruised or shattered ego after he gets fired. And it's a

Speaker 1 you can guarantee same thing happened to poor Joe Judge.

Speaker 1 as i recall with judge they caught him opening up his front door as like a friend brought in two 30 racks of cores light the day after the giants fired him we had the we had the shot of a you know pissed off and probably you know clinically depressed um brian daybull walking out leaving his house wearing a penn state hoodie which i'm sure he had to dig out of the storage because everything he wore was blue for the last four years

Speaker 2 tough sitch they can't um they can't help themselves And we can't help but looking at it when they produce these covers. And

Speaker 2 it's tabloid-esque, right?

Speaker 1 So you're saying we're part of the issue.

Speaker 1 Like, if we really were, if we thought, hey, where's the human side of this, giving this guy a little space during the most difficult moment of his career and potentially life?

Speaker 1 Maybe don't click that link. But I did want to see what hoodie he was wearing.
So shame on me, I guess.

Speaker 2 No, you should be the person bringing over the 32 Core's lights to Brian Dable, but instead we're just bathing in the disappointment of his career arc.

Speaker 1 Be the change you want to see in the world. Tom Jones.

Speaker 3 All right, now,

Speaker 1 coming up, Jimmy Palmer talking hot butts, checking in on our list from early September, what we got right, what has changed.

Speaker 1 I don't even want to say what we got wrong, and I'll explain why. We'll take no ownership of anything that doesn't look right on that list, and I'll say why in just a little bit.

Speaker 1 And just a reminder, and we're going to hit some news. We're going to do a little TNF preview.
Jets Patriots, the Jets have not lost

Speaker 1 in over three weeks.

Speaker 3 They're on a run.

Speaker 1 I am going to soak this up. I might only have another day to be able to say this, but the Jets are undefeated.

Speaker 1 Three weeks and counting.

Speaker 3 We're going to hit the TNF preview.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Did I mention the news? Do a little bit of news.

Speaker 1 But first,

Speaker 1 I just want to share a program note, Mark.

Speaker 1 We said when we get to 30,000 subscribers on YouTube,

Speaker 1 we will share,

Speaker 1 or I should say, Connor Orr will share his

Speaker 1 story, his scandalous tale involving Broncos head coach, Sean Payton. The 30K challenge.
And right now, where are we, Justin, on the 30K challenge?

Speaker 8 Right now, we are currently,

Speaker 8 I mean, are we close i don't know define close we are 3309 subscribers away at this exact moment of recording so we're over 26 uh 26 000 we need to get to 30

Speaker 2 you need to get to 30 to hear this connor tale of woe involving sean payton so do it it's the sean payton 30k challenge Like in like unless our listeners are friendless or without family, why are you not bringing others in to make this happen very quickly?

Speaker 2 Like it feels achievable.

Speaker 1 And I just want to say, pulling back the curtain, we are a humble, independent podcast. We are in a beautiful, fruitful,

Speaker 1 hopefully fruitful partnership with Odyssey, who have been awesome so far. That partnership, that's all about the audio side of things and the audio podcast.

Speaker 1 So make sure you continue to download the show and listen to it over there. YouTube is kind of its own thing.

Speaker 1 It's in its own bucket, but it's an important bucket for us because I think we do our YouTube NFL program better than anyone else in our business. And that's a credit to you, Justin Graver,

Speaker 1 and a credit to you, Mark Sessler. And maybe Zuzzer over here gets a little credit.
Doesn't matter. We're not saying who gets the most credit, but the show is great.
And it's an important show.

Speaker 1 And so hit the subscriber.

Speaker 1 pound that subscribe,

Speaker 1 leave comments, smash it. Good job, Mark.
And continue to help this, again, humble, independent podcast. Without further ado, let's bring in one of our favorite people.
And

Speaker 1 I think it's fitting because very few people in the industry have a better relationship with Sean Payton.

Speaker 1 Iconically, this summer, Sean Payton sought out one Jimmy Palmer and said, James, I love this team. Held out his big right paw, and James shook it.
And sure enough, here the Broncos are at 8-2.

Speaker 1 And we juxtaposed that against Connor Connor having some dirt potentially on Peyton to share when we get to 30K subscribers. Oh, it's delicious, James.
How are you doing, buddy?

Speaker 6 Guys, this has been too long. This has been, I don't know if the fans are asking for it, but we're giving it to them.
It's been too long. This is more for me than it is them or you guys.

Speaker 6 I am so excited to be back. I've missed all your faces.
I was just around upstairs. I was in between shows.
And I said, because I'm a loaded day today on a Wednesday.

Speaker 6 And I said to my wife, I'm jumping off with the Heath the Call guys. And she said, oh, tell them I said hello.
I go, really? She goes, no, not really.

Speaker 1 so i what we had a great time with her like i thought didn't we not in new orleans yeah at the heat house in new orleans we all we had a great time together that that we did wild weekend she was joking that that's what you that's what you say when you like people so much true tell jokes yeah right absolutely that comfort level is so important james is the co-host of scoop city by the athletic and nfl insider for bleacher report of course he's co-host in 89 with steve smith you got steve under control like where's steve at in 25 is he listen we're also

Speaker 6 yeah, we're also an independent podcast form. So

Speaker 6 we tape when Steve wants to tape.

Speaker 3 We

Speaker 9 do what Steve wants to do.

Speaker 6 No, listen, we're going to break that little Roman Dunes later today. I think him and I,

Speaker 6 it really has been a blast, man. You guys met John, our producer, who's outstanding.
It's just the three of us, man. Just like you guys.

Speaker 6 We're trying to, you know, maybe we should have like a powwow, and maybe we can pick your brains about how to succeed in this crazy show.

Speaker 1 There is no try. There is only two.
There are no reverse gears in this tank. Justin, you had, there's something went viral over on the 89 show.

Speaker 8 Yeah, I was just going to bring it up to give you a shout out. What Steve Smith said about Keon Coleman went like mega viral.

Speaker 3 Let's put the internet on fire. It did.

Speaker 6 It certainly did.

Speaker 10 He

Speaker 10 doesn't have the ability to be a true number one. And he's not.

Speaker 6 The difference

Speaker 10 is you can't teach a dog how to bark.

Speaker 6 You either got it or you don't.

Speaker 1 Ooh, Bunsen Burner below torch.

Speaker 1 James, of course, I did worry about the brand, the 89 brand, when Jerry Judy put up all those empty stats at the end of the brown season last year, but that's now reverted.

Speaker 1 He's regressed back to the mean Judy for the most part. And once again, Steve Smith is an unquestioned authority at the wide receiver position.

Speaker 6 He very much so is. We came out with our very first mid-season college big board, our five best receivers in the college game right now.
And man, that is people got the opinions.

Speaker 6 They do not like Carnell Tate at number five right now from Ohio State. People are very upset with Steve.
And then I get a text from Steve going, Don't worry, I'm going to change these.

Speaker 6 I'm messing with everybody. So I don't even know if it's a real big board.
But these are the ones that are.

Speaker 1 It's like a terrifying experience co-hosting this particular show.

Speaker 3 We're at it, man.

Speaker 5 We're doing great.

Speaker 3 We're doing great.

Speaker 1 It sounds like doing a show with the Joker from the Dark Knight. Just like, you never know what's going to happen.
Slightly. Man lives on chaos.

Speaker 6 Right. It's the best.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

Speaker 3 Thank you, Justin. Wow.

Speaker 1 We'll take that out and post. Don't worry.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 6 I got it.

Speaker 6 I did a show once.

Speaker 6 I hosted a show called Campfire Convos, where I would sit down with a variety of different people at a campfire from different lines of work. And I sat down with Michael Jai White.

Speaker 6 I don't know if you know the actor, Black Diamond, Michael Jai White. He was also the lead gangster in that scene where the jauper says, Do you want to make this pencil disappear?

Speaker 6 He played the lead gangster. He told me all about his interactions with Heath and that scene.
It was fascinating.

Speaker 2 Wasn't that fire your backyard? I thought it was your backyard fire circle or whatever you later.

Speaker 6 Yeah, with us here, we're kind of hippies. Is the drum circle anything that's called?

Speaker 6 Is what you're alluding to?

Speaker 1 And to be clear, James, you just used up all three of your plugs. So

Speaker 1 we need to move forward.

Speaker 3 Let's go.

Speaker 3 Why'd you guys have me?

Speaker 6 Let's have it.

Speaker 1 Hey, before we get into the hot butts check-in,

Speaker 1 we have one of the great insiders of our industry with us, James Palmer. So let's do a little news catch-up.

Speaker 11 All right, before we get started with the power rankings, a certain top three team just dropped a new uniform. I'm wondering, what's the best alternate uni in the league right now?

Speaker 12 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 I was wondering if we were going to see that cloned zombie dog walking around with two tails wagging at once in the background, but nothing.

Speaker 6 If you're a gentleman, in the public eye who is aging in reverse, do you find it wise to come out and tell everyone that you cloned your dog?

Speaker 6 To me, it just kind of sends a message of I possibly could be a clone right now talking to you. I just.

Speaker 1 It's a fair point.

Speaker 1 There is nothing, there is zero.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you caught Sessler waving at his own face about the aging of the dog.

Speaker 2 No, I just said, you know, like, listen, classy gentleman, you know.

Speaker 1 As we know, Mark. And you do look great today with that jacket.
Everybody check it out on YouTube. Smash the subscribe.
But time is undefeated.

Speaker 1 Brady has used extensive plastic surgery, it appears, since the age of about 25.

Speaker 2 Well, Dan, we were on that case dating back to 2012.

Speaker 1 I'm saying unless you want to go down that road yourself, I would say just enjoy the moment.

Speaker 1 You know, the victory lap there you were doing just then was.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm not looking to clone animals for the moment. It didn't strike me as a hobby, a side hobby.
So I think I'm free of that.

Speaker 1 It is interesting, though, because Brady, I feel like every time I see him do an appearance or this this Fakakta power rankings he does, which is nothing like the authentic one that HTC has as an example, he appears less human, more and more, not just how he looks, but how he speaks.

Speaker 1 Like here's another clip at one point from that two and a half minute video that Fox puts out.

Speaker 11 Two minutes too long. I watched Matt Stafford play video game football against the 49ers on Sunday, and it seems like he can run this offense with his eyes closed at times.

Speaker 11 I guess he's kind of proven that with a no-look pass, right? I should have tried that that more. It looks so cool.

Speaker 1 It's not a human being. That is not a human being.

Speaker 6 I think it just makes us look a hell of a lot better at what we do, guys. Talking to the public, relating,

Speaker 6 just being a regular guy.

Speaker 1 You can see like his eyes burning a hole through the teleprompter.

Speaker 2 Well, it's Botox wanting to get out.

Speaker 6 Does that make you kind of feel like Peyton Manning in these commercials? He's on to something with his comedic economy a little bit.

Speaker 1 I've always been pro-Peyton, and I always disagreed with the rest of the ATN gang on Manning's chops as an actor and I thought he elevated the form quite frankly and now Eli I don't know if you noticed Eli's doing a million commercials now I think Eli is doing more than Peyton I think Eli is I think Eli and Elon whoa Elon's brother Eli is naturally more funny than Peyton Peyton has probably better preparation and comedic thoughts on setting things up, but I think

Speaker 6 he was already comedic

Speaker 2 even as a quarterback. We found him a little bit, there were comedic moments with him that were that Peyton didn't offer.
Like, he's the younger brother.

Speaker 2 There's just a different setup with Eli, but I also, I'm with you. I think he's the higher thespian.

Speaker 3 Um,

Speaker 1 by the way, my one of my closest friends back east, who I'm going to actually see this weekend. I'm flying back to New York tonight.

Speaker 1 Um, I uh can tell you that he lives in the same sleepy, leafy New Jersey suburb as Eli Manning, and they've coached against each other in youth basketball.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 2 Who won?

Speaker 1 And, you know, that's a good question. I'll check it on that.
But he said that Eli's class act all the way and like a real.

Speaker 2 Has he not asked that question when you said that from your friends?

Speaker 1 He probably mentioned it. By the way, I just want to also say, like,

Speaker 1 whoever wrote that script, he opens with that stilted mention about the new alternate uniforms and then never comes back to it. So I guess that was to

Speaker 1 for dialogue purposes, to engagement on the tweet. So again, very robotic.

Speaker 1 He was referring to the Patriots on Thursday night. We're going to get to the Thursday night preview at the end of the show.

Speaker 1 The Patriots is from Schefter. The Patriots' Nor'easter uniforms that they will be wearing for Thursday night football versus the Jets.

Speaker 1 Your thoughts on it, James?

Speaker 6 It doesn't really move the meter. When they put the Patriot on the helmet,

Speaker 6 that's a good look, you know, when he's down there in the stamps.

Speaker 1 As opposed to Flying Elvis, which they're sticking with here.

Speaker 6 Yeah. And I mean, like, when we're thinking about legit, I mean, how many times have you now pictured, like, can we get that old Broncos uniform against that Kelly Green Eagles uniform?

Speaker 6 Can we just have that show down?

Speaker 1 I mean, well, or James,

Speaker 2 Broncos versus Giants. Yes.
Super Bowl rematch from decades ago. Like, that's my two top throwbacks.

Speaker 1 You know, and I was dialoguing on Twitter with the official uniform monitor, Dave Damashek, for that. Is he?

Speaker 1 Yeah, oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 Still holds the position.

Speaker 1 That recent Broncos game where they had the Orange Crush throwbacks.

Speaker 1 And like the Patriots, the Broncos are boxed in by their own history because the ghastly current Broncos getups are where they've had all of their Super Bowl conquests, all three of them, right?

Speaker 1 In 50 and the two with Elway.

Speaker 1 So to go back to the Orange Crush is only to bring up memories of Super Bowls where it didn't go their way or seasons where they didn't get it done.

Speaker 1 Patriots, even more so, Pat Patriot, like as classic as that getup was from the 80s and 70s, they were a testament to failure, essentially, in the AFC, with the exception of that one Super Bowl year where they got crushed by the Bears.

Speaker 1 And they can't go away from Flying Elvis because that's the Tom Brady uniform. So you kind of get boxed in by success.

Speaker 1 I think Tampa Bay in a similar way as well with their getups, which everyone loved. If you were there in the 90s, when they got rid of the Creamsicles,

Speaker 1 it was a celebration when they went to the pewter with the flag. but that feels now a relic of its time.

Speaker 1 And a lot of people want the old creamsicles, and that ain't happening either because they have multiple titles with Pewter.

Speaker 1 Tough sitch. Classic, tough sitch, Mark.

Speaker 2 A fashion conundrum.

Speaker 1 Yes. And you are the man sartorially on point today, Ceci.
All right.

Speaker 1 Let's roll through this news real quick.

Speaker 1 Jaguars,

Speaker 1 in the rundown, Justin, you put Jaguars star cornerback wide receivers.

Speaker 2 I saw that too. That stood out to me.
It felt like very Dove Kleinman.

Speaker 8 Yeah, copy and paste. I think that was directly out of a rap sheet tweet or somebody, one of the others.

Speaker 1 That sounds like something a rap sheet would say to keep the agent happy. But Travis Hunter is a cornerback and wide receiver

Speaker 1 of, you know, obviously high regard coming out of the draft as a two-way player. He injured himself during the bye week, hurt his knee in practice.

Speaker 1 They thought it was going to be something that he could come back from, but now they decided, you know what, this LCL is a little too jacked up in his knee, the ligament.

Speaker 1 So he has surgery this week, the return scheduled for 2026. So in six months, he should be full football activities, and good luck to him during his rehab.

Speaker 1 Now the question becomes, all right, after this first year, which let's just be real. The Jaguars are never going to acknowledge this, especially after the boy Genius GM,

Speaker 1 stuck his foot in his mouth after the draft and unnecessarily pumped up expectations around this kid.

Speaker 1 It was a flop of first year in the league for Travis Hunter, who didn't make much of an impact on the field and then unfortunately got hurt. Is he going to, are they going to make changes?

Speaker 1 Are the Jaguars going to see this as a sign that we need to take a different path with this very talented young player? Liam Cohen opened some eyes in his presser when he announced the surgery.

Speaker 1 I understand there's a lot of questions about if he'll remain a two-way player and all those kind of things, guys.

Speaker 1 All of that is very premature. And at the end of the day, like every player on this roster, he'll be evaluated at the end of the season.

Speaker 1 And we'll be able to give him his three better, three best, and the things that we need to continue to improve upon and the things we need to build on.

Speaker 1 But right now, our complete focus is on the Chargers and getting a must-need a win on Sunday. All right.
Translate that, James.

Speaker 6 If you go back and remember everything that was said from James Gladstone and Liam Cohen throughout the entire draft process after they selected him, throughout all of training camp, At training camp, Liam Cohen was going out there saying he's going to play 80% of the snaps on each side of the ball.

Speaker 6 He is a two-way player. This is the way we're going to use him.
We're going to give up that much capital to get a player of this caliber that's going to be this dominant force on both sides.

Speaker 6 That didn't sound anything like that.

Speaker 6 It really didn't. And this has been a difficult go so far.

Speaker 6 Was he getting better before the injury? Certainly. People around the league I talked to definitely thought it was headed in the right direction.
This is something nobody's ever tried to do, really.

Speaker 6 And so I do commend him for that. I commend him for the effort it's taken.

Speaker 6 I've been told he's a tireless worker in the building trying to do this.

Speaker 6 But the fact of it was, during the draft process, talking to a number of teams, it was he's not outstanding at either one. So essentially, he has to get better at both.

Speaker 6 It's not like he was like this unbelievable receiver. Technique is through the roof.
Understanding of the receiver position is through the roof. We just have to work on corner.

Speaker 6 Like there's a lot of technique and NFL learning that has to happen at both. And to me, I felt like Liam was kind of hedging his bets a little bit about what our plan is in 2026.

Speaker 6 And Brian Thomas's future, I think, plays a part in this as well, because that was a name during my trade

Speaker 6 calls that was kind of floated out there a little bit and fascinating for a guy who was third in the NFL receiving a season ago.

Speaker 2 I want to know what is happening with Brian Thomas off the field because that is one of the more stunning second-year fall-off eclipse scenarios.

Speaker 2 But his season certainly impacted Travis Hunter's season. There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 2 I think anyone that took this player on, it was going to be a challenge for the coaching staff because it's really not been done in ages and ages.

Speaker 2 There's not a lot of proof concept that this could even work the way that they talked about him early on.

Speaker 2 I always felt like year two, we'd really know what we have with him.

Speaker 2 But now you go into rehab, which is, you know, if you know if you talk to players that have rehabbed, it's a lonely, lost, quiet process. And I hope that he can stay mentally plugged in.

Speaker 2 But I'm with you that, like, it's important they made that Jacoby Myers trade because they are down at wide receiver.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if you're Liam Cohen, what you really think you're going to do with Travis Hunter a year from now. I mean, it's just kind of like a garbled scenario.

Speaker 2 It's not how you wanted this to go. And, Dan, we're going to get hit with a bunch of like off-season summer storylines.
Like, Travis Hunter is plugged back in now, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 You know, I think James is on to something, though. I could see them trading Brian Thomas in the offseason and then saying, all right, Travis is going to be our number one.

Speaker 1 And if he's going to be our number one, he needs to put his focus there. That would be my prediction.
But yeah, it'll be interesting to see, see how it all plays out. All right.

Speaker 1 Finally, this is.

Speaker 1 I want to get your guys' thought on this. Here's a speaking of the New York Post.
Here's a headline. Aaron Rodgers is, quote, Phantom wife, still a mystery to family and Steelers Wags.

Speaker 1 Wags, it's an acronym. Wives and girlfriends.

Speaker 1 Five months after marriage reveal, here is the lead from Jacqueline Hendricks.

Speaker 1 Five months have passed since Aaron Rodgers confirmed he's a married man, and his phantom bride is still very much a mystery.

Speaker 1 That's according to the spouse of one of Rodgers' teammates, one of the few. The Daily Mail recently spoke to about the Steelers quarterback's private life.
She's like a phantom, the

Speaker 1 unidentified wag said. We all want to meet her, invite her out, get to know her, but we haven't met her yet.
We don't even know who she

Speaker 1 is. Mark,

Speaker 1 Rogers Marital Bliss has been shrouded in secrecy for some time.

Speaker 1 Do we want to say the quiet part out loud? Go ahead.

Speaker 2 Well, I think it's interesting to find an NFL player that when you say wags, that they don't have wives and girlfriends. If they've got just one,

Speaker 2 we've already scored there. But like,

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 If I recall, wasn't she sort of like um a new age enchantress or something like um not really like a football-esque like go to the stadium and okay yeah yeah like a late now I like I you know as someone who's had his own personal life um targeted on the subreddit at times it's like I kind of want to leave him alone on this one but I don't know all right Mark like

Speaker 2 I would just say I would just say like I I think that Aaron Rodgers for decades has had sort of a shrouded and bizarre relationship with his own family.

Speaker 2 So I'm not shocked that they don't have a relationship, but who's the wife that came out or the wag that came out and dropped this info?

Speaker 1 Mark's not going the direction I thought he was going to go in that this conversation needs to go in. James, can you say the quiet part out loud?

Speaker 6 I just initially thought of like, is this something we continuously search after the Mantai Teow situation? Thanks. Is this something that now everybody wants to try to see if we have a second?

Speaker 2 So the two of you would believe that she simply does not. She's a phantom.
she's um a scion, she's not here.

Speaker 3 Phantom would have been given too much credit.

Speaker 6 I do get a little bit of a sense of do you remember when George Costanzo had that picture of his fake girlfriend and uh when he was trying to get into the

Speaker 6 nightclub? Uh, because he had a picture of him previously, and then there was just a magazine picture of a woman that he was using to try to get into the uh to the this is my girlfriend here.

Speaker 1 The woman said, That's me.

Speaker 6 He said, Oh, sorry. Um, this is, I don't think this matters, but it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's no wife.

Speaker 3 Why cook it up?

Speaker 1 This isn't a thing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I don't know if this is him, his idea of humor, because he wants to give people a ride,

Speaker 1 get off my corner. This is my private life.
So I'm going to throw this piece of flesh out and then I'll laugh about it later.

Speaker 1 Or if he's just so

Speaker 1 into

Speaker 1 transcendental, you know, meditation or dark rooms that he thinks there is a wife in his life, but that actually isn't true.

Speaker 2 Transcendental meditation is where you went with that.

Speaker 3 Whatever it is.

Speaker 6 This does get more interesting, Danny, because if he plays in 2026 for the Steelers, like he wasn't intending on doing, that just extends the length of his rouge.

Speaker 6 He could be almost done, actually.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was going to say, though,

Speaker 1 it's either a media creation for fun on his part or to enhance his reputation reputation or get him in the newspapers, or like he literally does think he has a wife, but it's not real.

Speaker 2 I do want to know which wag chirped like a little birdie on this one, though. I think that matters.
Like it could pull the team apart.

Speaker 1 I want you to dig into that, Ceci.

Speaker 2 I finally feel investigative and I'm going to go down this road.

Speaker 1 Good, good, good. All right, let's take a break and then we're going to check in on some hot butts.

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Speaker 1 The stomach.

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Speaker 1 All right, we are back. Oh, man.

Speaker 1 James, a lot has happened in the NFL, in our lives, since early September when you were on this program and we diagnosed, as we do every year, a tradition here at Heed the Call.

Speaker 1 who are the coaches in most danger entering the season. And

Speaker 1 now it's time to revisit our initial list, James, and then decide what changes need to be made based on what's happened in the first 10 weeks of the season. That all makes sense?

Speaker 6 That makes a ton of sense to me.

Speaker 3 Okay, great.

Speaker 1 So here's what it looked like. When was this, Justin? September 1st around

Speaker 8 September 1st with an update on September 3rd.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 So this is the September 3rd when I had an initial list and then I was talked into a few changes after we had a collective conversation. But anyway, let's go through it real quick here

Speaker 1 and see what needs to move. So we'll start in the death proof category.
Death proof, by definition, in this exercise, there is no chance that this coach can get fired.

Speaker 1 He is as safe as you can possibly be in his profession.

Speaker 1 Dan Campbell, both Harbaugh Brothers, Matt LaFleur, Sean McVay, Kevin O'Connell, Sean Payton, Dan Quinn, Andy Reid, D'Amico Ryans, Kyle Shanahan, Nick Siriani.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Mark, do you want to jump in on this one first? Because there was a little bit of interesting reporting around one of these coaches that bears watching before we decide where to classify him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'd love to know what James thinks about this too. But Matt LaFleur has suddenly bubbled up.
And I get it that the Green Bay Packers, there was this period, and I added to it in my own world,

Speaker 2 were seen as like a Super Bowl contender, and they've been a hot and cold, slightly disappointing, please-you, unplease-you, week-to-week operation.

Speaker 2 And Matt LaFleur's name has bubbled up as he's coaching for his job, which to me is stunning.

Speaker 1 Where Mark, where is this bubbling up? Tell, give us more detail.

Speaker 2 Matt Steinman from the athletic. But is that like

Speaker 2 that? Stuns me. That stuns me when you look at his overall body of work.
Like, is he the problem? Like, um, James, like, what do you think? Because I just find this to be crazy.

Speaker 2 He'd get another job in two seconds.

Speaker 6 He would have another job before his key hit the door of his car in the parking lot. Certainly.

Speaker 6 Why is Matt saying this? You can connect the dots to some extent. And I'm going to lay it out there.
And then you boys decide if this eliminates him from death proof. Okay.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 6 There is a new president. So there is a new set of eyes on the organization for the first time in a long time.

Speaker 6 Then you have Matt LaFleur and Brian Gunakoos who are entering after this season the final year of their contract. They were not extended before this year started.

Speaker 6 They are going to enter in 2026 the final year of their deals. Obviously, nobody really coaches on a lane duck year very often.

Speaker 6 So after this season, there should be some sort of a determining factor on an extension or where you go moving forward.

Speaker 6 The reason why I think there might be a little bit of suspicion is because of that first part. And the second part is this.
They broke precedent.

Speaker 6 I always pay attention to teams that do something that they never do before because usually that leads to change in some sort of capacity. So, what ended up happening?

Speaker 6 They drafted a receiver in the first round to make this offense more explosive, something they just never do. Go ask Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 6 Then they go make a massive trade for Micah Parsons because they felt like they were, to my understanding, a player away, a closer, if you will, on the defensive side of the ball from being a Super Bowl contender.

Speaker 6 They do two massive moves before the season starts because they think they are this close to a Super Bowl. Where are they as we enter week 11? They are seventh in the NFC standings.

Speaker 6 Where do they finish each of the last two years? Seventh in the NFC standings. So you made these massive moves.
You broke precedent on how you do business, and you're exactly where you were before.

Speaker 6 I do think there's plenty of people in that building that still think the world of Matt LaFour. I don't think he's going anywhere.

Speaker 6 But with everything I said, is there any thought from either of you to move him out of death proof

Speaker 6 if

Speaker 6 this season continues to be as up and down as it is? And I would also say around the league, it's, is this Matt LaFleur or is this still Jordan Love hasn't developed the way everyone expects him to?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that people are going to point the fingers at LaFleur if Love isn't developing into the superstar they're paying him to be.

Speaker 1 I think what was a blessing in August when Micah Parsons landed with Green Bay in that trade now is a little bit added pressure now that you can look at it from this angle, because there's expectations that were raised that he's not meeting at this time or the team is not meeting at this time.

Speaker 1 I think you could see it.

Speaker 1 You could see it on Monday night on the sideline, the pressure that you could tell and the frustration LaFleur is feeling that he can't get this team to play and this offense to play the way he expects it, scoring seven points in your own building against the defending champions.

Speaker 1 Before I have a final answer, though, I would like to hear how LaFleur answered this question on Monday, whether he thinks he's coaching for his job.

Speaker 13 I'll leave that for everybody else to decide. I'll just focus on the day-to-day and trying to do,

Speaker 13 I feel like you're always coaching for everything in this league. You know, that's just my mindset.
It's always been that way.

Speaker 13 You know, you can't ever

Speaker 13 exhale. You've got to always be pushing.
And that's just my mindset. So,

Speaker 13 and that will be my mindset until until they tell me not to coach anymore.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. I'm comfortable moving him down, James, because Death Proof is a special place.

Speaker 3 It's a special place.

Speaker 6 It's a very special place. Yes.
Very special. And man, that makes it feel exhausting being an NFL head coach, didn't it? Just listening to that pressure, man.

Speaker 3 Yes. Oh, yes.
All right.

Speaker 1 So the next tier we had, and this will not be the tier for

Speaker 1 Matt LaFleur, the honeymoon phase. These are first-year head coaches.

Speaker 1 And everyone that was a first-year head coach besides Pete Carroll, who we'll get to, who we moved in based on different circumstances around Carroll.

Speaker 1 Anyway, honeymoon phase, Liam Cohen, Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson, Kellen Moore, Ellen Moore, Brian Schottenheimer,

Speaker 1 Mike Vrabel.

Speaker 3 Okay, this room is pretty easy, sese.

Speaker 1 Let's go one at a time here. Vrabel, move him to death proof.
He is absolutely everything the Patriots could have hoped for.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I think he's the coach of the year.

Speaker 1 Heavy favorite, I would imagine, or close. If he's not, he's right there.

Speaker 1 Schottenheimer, I think he's okay to stay there. Stop me if you disagree.
Nope, crap.

Speaker 1 Ellen Moore, I don't know. I mean, the Saints are such a mess.
I would imagine he's not going to be blamed for

Speaker 1 3-14 or whatever.

Speaker 6 I had a doubting from Tyler Schook the other day.

Speaker 2 I think Ellen Moore has done a good job, actually.

Speaker 1 But we're not going to move him to to death proof, right?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, but I think he can stay right here in this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I agree. Ben Johnson, I feel like

Speaker 1 where things are right now.

Speaker 6 James, I might go to death proof. I mean, I think the returns have been outstanding.

Speaker 6 And not specifically with Caleb Williams. It was being the CEO, head coach of the entire room, the guy who loves to spend time by himself in a closet.
Could he do that?

Speaker 6 That part actually has exceeded their expectations thus far.

Speaker 1 I agree. I agree 100%.
I think let's move him to death proof. Aaron Glenn, three weeks ago, before the Jets just stopped losing, just said, we're not losing anymore.

Speaker 1 I would have said we got to move him, but

Speaker 1 I think that the two trades of their two defensive stars and then winning a couple of games kind of dialed down the heat around Glenn. That's where I come down.
You feel similar to that, guys?

Speaker 6 Yes. Very similar.

Speaker 1 All right, so let's keep him right there. And then Liam Cohn in Jacksonville,

Speaker 1 I'm fine leaving him here. You guys are absolutely.

Speaker 6 Leave him here, but by the way, Crossroads right now where they're at. They've lost three of their last four.

Speaker 6 They're giving up an avalanche of points on defense.

Speaker 6 They're in danger slipping out of the postseason here.

Speaker 1 But not in enough danger to move him out of the honeymoon phase.

Speaker 6 No. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's move to the I Feel Good, the James Brown, I feel good

Speaker 1 category.

Speaker 6 Still gets me, actually.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we got the long on YouTube.

Speaker 1 We have the wrong James Brown in the graphic, but we have not fixed it yet, but we're getting toward it. Maybe a 2026 project.
All right. Todd Bowles,

Speaker 1 Mike McDonald,

Speaker 1 Sean McDermott, Mike Tomlin,

Speaker 1 Pete Carroll, Kevin Stefansky. Okay, let's go through these now.
Okay.

Speaker 3 I'll move somebody. Let's go.
Cool.

Speaker 1 McDonald's, death proof, right?

Speaker 3 Death proof.

Speaker 6 Death proof. Death proof.
100%. Just

Speaker 1 like Rabel, his program has taken hold.

Speaker 6 10 games as a rookie head coach last last year.

Speaker 1 So McDonald moves to death proof.

Speaker 3 Super

Speaker 1 Sean McDermott, interesting. Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to overreact to

Speaker 1 what happened in Miami. Okay.

Speaker 1 I do think maybe McDermott could be a little bit more nervous.

Speaker 1 This one, let's talk about McDermott.

Speaker 1 Do you feel differently, James, about Sean McDermott's job security than you did on September 4th?

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 6 I feel like it's a little bit more on shakier ground than it was at the start of the season because they had the same issues they had a season ago with the offense. Now, I will say this.

Speaker 6 I mentioned the trade deadline before. I've never seen a general manager more distraught in their

Speaker 6 post-trade deadline press conference than Brandon Bean. Guys, the guy tried everything.
He tried to make so many trades and couldn't get any of them across the finish line.

Speaker 6 I'm not sure that would have totally helped. They actually looked at defensive line much more than people think.
They did look at receivers, obviously, but defensive line was big for them.

Speaker 6 They have only one way they can win. I think that, Dan, is the part that jumps out at me.
They can only win one way right now, and I don't see that changing.

Speaker 1 What do you think, Celsi?

Speaker 2 I keep them in this category, but it's like with a TBD attached to it, an asterisk, where it's like, I think what happens between now and

Speaker 2 early February matters a lot. It also matters.

Speaker 6 See, we can get a

Speaker 6 category of I feel pretty good now.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Not just.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think he's almost like kind of like LaFleur in like his own type of category, but I feel good. I don't think I'm moving on from this guy.
Wait a second.

Speaker 1 I got this. Listen, it's our show.

Speaker 3 We can do anything we want. New category, rule change.

Speaker 1 Sean McDermott goes into his old, his own category called I feel pretty good.

Speaker 3 Yes, that feels pretty right.

Speaker 3 Rule change and change.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 1 You know, what about Tomlin? I mean, should he join?

Speaker 1 Should he join McDermott and I feel pretty good, actually? Yes. I mean, it's this, I feel like he can't feel.

Speaker 1 It feels like to me, Mark, that the Steelers season is trending in the wrong direction.

Speaker 1 And again, while you don't want to be a prisoner of the moment ever, but especially in this exercise, Steelers team that's lost three of four that looked totally overmatched against the Chargers on Sunday night.

Speaker 1 The Ravens are rising up. Joe Burrow's on his way back.
I don't feel great about this season ending any other place other than eight or nine wins right now.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just wonder if

Speaker 1 that would be something that causes ownership finally to say, like, we got to change what we're doing here. This cul-de-sac of elite mediocrity.

Speaker 1 It's time to address it. I mean, should he shift into a different category?

Speaker 2 I mean, it's an organization that's different than any other on this list in the sense that you've had three coaches ever, and there's no knee-jerk.

Speaker 2 There's no like, he like the coach, he's not always the problem, I don't think here. Like, it's about the ingredients he's had, but I feel like now it's bubbling up and it's a little bit different.

Speaker 2 Like, I'd be all right putting him in, I feel, pretty good, in the sense that, like, maybe it is time for a change. Maybe it's a time from time for Mike Tomlin to go somewhere else.

Speaker 2 I think he'd get another job also in, like, before the key goes in the car, as James said.

Speaker 6 James,

Speaker 6 I think the Giants' mouths would be watering if this ended up happening.

Speaker 6 Oh, yeah. And they would be all over that in a heartbeat.
I would say the one thing that makes me go into a little, I feel pretty good. And like, there's a Larry David poster there or something.

Speaker 6 I would say

Speaker 6 they went all in this year. I mean, all in.

Speaker 6 That's usually not the way they do business.

Speaker 6 And they really did.

Speaker 6 Is that part of a tipping point? I'm not sure.

Speaker 6 He always takes a little bit of time after the season. You ever notice that? Where he's always like, I'm so exhausted.

Speaker 6 And then it goes like dark for a minute, and everybody kind of like waits to see what this is the year. It happens every year.

Speaker 6 We'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 All right. So we're going to move him to the Larry David.
I feel pretty, pretty good.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Pete Carroll.

Speaker 1 I'm going to make a case for moving him to the next category. Okay.

Speaker 1 So let's stick a pin in him. And it's Stefanski as well.
So

Speaker 1 let's move to the Chandler Bing Memorial. Could I Be Any More Nervous category?

Speaker 1 We already have two coaches that are. no longer with us in this NFL.
It's Brian Callahan of the Titans. He was fired week six, I believe.

Speaker 6 I thought Graither told us he was safe when we did this last time.

Speaker 1 He did. Actually,

Speaker 1 I think we moved Callahan. Oh, we didn't move Callahan.
We had him in this category. Justin was down on Callahan, but also thought he had a little more security.
Does that sound right, Justin?

Speaker 8 Yeah, so what I was told before the season is that the Titans management really did not want to fire Callahan.

Speaker 1 He was betrayed by his own sources, hoisted up on his own guitar.

Speaker 3 He was a hard sesse.

Speaker 8 What they told me was the only thing that matters is Cam Ward. And if Cam Ward looks good and the offense takes a step, then wins and losses don't really matter.

Speaker 8 But what ended up happening was the Titans were a massive disaster. If you look at stats like EPA per drop back, Cam Ward is last in the league.
The Titans' offense is among the worst in the league.

Speaker 8 And so while it wasn't about wins and losses, which, you know, wins also didn't come. The offense was a complete disaster and Callahan's situation became untenable.

Speaker 8 So the scenario that they said, this is the only way we'll fire Callahan, that scenario played out.

Speaker 1 James, what happens, because Justin is

Speaker 1 young and learning in the industry, when a source betrays you? Like, how do you, is that something?

Speaker 1 Do you have a conversation about it? Or is it more like a live and learn, an internal thing that

Speaker 1 you clock?

Speaker 6 That was a flaming bag of shit on their front porch, man. Yeah, send a message.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean?

Speaker 6 You got to tell them his boss.

Speaker 6 Listen, if you're ever on the fence about something, like now would be a perfect time for me to say this.

Speaker 6 You know, I was talking to a member of the organization week one in the press box, and the debacle before halftime left them pulling their hair out, going,

Speaker 6 We're going to have to talk about that.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 6 Now it's a great time for me to say that. Week one, I was like, Yeah, it's too early.

Speaker 6 We're upset with Brian Callahan and his clock management, but now it's safe. So you got to pick your spots sometimes when you use it too.

Speaker 1 All right, Dable's fired. I actually had him originally in the Maliu and Danger Girl during the Giants optimism season on this show.

Speaker 1 He was moved into this category, but he was fired,

Speaker 3 obviously.

Speaker 1 So he gone. How about Dave Canalis? Dave Canales trying to get something built there in Carolina.
It's just not happening.

Speaker 1 It doesn't feel like it's happening, James, with Bryce Young, that they're just two steps forward, one step back organizationally, sitting at five and five right now.

Speaker 1 Is Canales in the right spot here or should he be moving up? Because they are five and five and that is progress.

Speaker 6 It is. There's actually some positive buzz around him checking around because I do my

Speaker 6 preparation for the show. Oh, yeah, baby.

Speaker 6 There's a little positive buzz of like, no, this guy might be a pretty good coach. And the buzz on the other side is, this might be what Bryce Young is.
Like, honestly, like, this might be what he is.

Speaker 6 Like, you're going to need a good run game. You're going to need a good defense.
He's okay. He'll make a handful of plays.
He's not going to win you games.

Speaker 6 And that's frustrating when it's a former number one overall pick. But I think they're coming to that realization.

Speaker 6 But at the same time, they're coming to the to the realization that, like, Dave is actually a pretty good coach, though.

Speaker 6 And I think he's pretty,

Speaker 6 I mean, with that owner, I never want to say safe,

Speaker 6 but it seems like it's shaking out that he's relatively safe.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 the owner is paying like three coaching staffs right now. So I don't, and that doesn't matter because he's a billionaire, but like Dave Canalis to me, every other week the Panthers look pretty great.

Speaker 2 So I don't, I don't, I just think Dave Canalis probably should have the opportunity to pick and choose a new quarterback if he needs, but I like Dave Canalis. I think he's a good coach.

Speaker 1 Let's move him to I feel good.

Speaker 3 Let's move him. Let's be bold.

Speaker 3 I would.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 He's been moved. All right.

Speaker 1 Raheem Morris, the younger

Speaker 1 coach of the Atlanta Falcons.

Speaker 1 This team seems, again, another one of those teams that can't seem to quite get it going. And Arthur Blank is an aging owner.

Speaker 1 I feel like they need a pretty strong finish, I think.

Speaker 1 That's my vibe on this one, James. Where do you come down? I don't think,

Speaker 1 put it this way, I don't think eight and nine

Speaker 1 is going to cut it. I think there has to be real reason for optimism, or I could see Blank looking in a different direction.
What do you think?

Speaker 6 I think it's still early. I think it's beloved in the building.
I know his staff thinks the absolute world of him.

Speaker 6 I think they thought the quarterback was going to be better heading into this year.

Speaker 6 I mean, some of the stuff that I was told out of that building heading into this year, I mean, they were over the moon. And now that

Speaker 6 that conversation that I have has shifted a little bit. And now it's like, man, he still does some great things, but there's some other things that are like,

Speaker 6 and they can, they can happen. I mean, he's still in his first year as a starter, obviously.
He played three games last year.

Speaker 6 I think he's fine. I really do.

Speaker 6 Cause they fixed the defense.

Speaker 6 And there's certain games where you're like,

Speaker 6 yeah, like this works. But they've had a number of injuries on the offensive line, which also has hurt Penix as a young quarterback.
So I think he's fine, though. I really do think he's fine.

Speaker 2 And James, I'd ask you this because like

Speaker 2 some of these guys, and it's, you know, less and less, but he's defensive minded. And like his job was to come in and fix the defense.

Speaker 2 And the Falcons' defense looks very different than it had for a very long time. It's like, so hasn't he sort of done what was advertised?

Speaker 2 If you're Raheem Morris and the offensive side, is it someone like, you know, the offensive coordinator is the one that goes.

Speaker 2 It feels like a scapegoat situation where the coordinator gets slashed, but Raheem, to me, feels like what he's good at, they're showing that as the Falcons.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I'd say real quick, I don't think Zach's going anywhere, Dan, but I would say I wouldn't be surprised if like another staff move happens.

Speaker 6 Remember, they fired their receivers coach like a few weeks back.

Speaker 6 I wouldn't be surprised if there's some more tinkering

Speaker 6 on the coaching staff by Raheem.

Speaker 3 Gotcha. Okay.

Speaker 1 Oh, Zach Robinson. Yeah, I think there's been a lot of criticism around that scheme.
I think you guys have convinced me we should, you want to move him into I Feel Good as well? Shall we?

Speaker 1 I feel pretty good. Okay, let's move him to Larry David.
I feel

Speaker 3 pretty good.

Speaker 1 All right, how about another Zach, Zach Taylor?

Speaker 1 These things tend to have mechanisms to them, right, James? And you have a disappointing year, and then as a head coach,

Speaker 1 you have another disappointing year, and then you have an option to like pull the trigger on a protection move. In this case, it was pushing Luanarumo out the door at D.C.
last year.

Speaker 1 They bring in a new D.C. The defense is somehow worse than it was last year.
The team is disappointing. The quarterback gets hurt.

Speaker 1 I wonder if this still is a good spot for Taylor, because Joe Burrows could be back by the end of this month. Could Burroughs save Taylor's job by leading the Bengals to a strong finish?

Speaker 1 I feel like he's still in the right spot. What do you you think?

Speaker 6 I think he's in exactly the right spot. I got nervous for a minute there when the locker room was kind of cracking,

Speaker 6 specifically after that debacle against the Bears. But I go back and go, wait a minute, he brought in Joe Flacco.

Speaker 6 They traded for Joe Flacco. And since Joe's arrived there, they have the number one offense in the NFL in EPA per play.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 1 he deserves credit for that.

Speaker 3 That is fair.

Speaker 6 That's remarkable. Like,

Speaker 6 I think that might, the Joe Flacco success, even if they don't do anything more with it than they already are, I think might save his job in all honesty. That's his side of the ball.

Speaker 6 Like, that's his side of the ball. But there are some other things that I question, and the contract is coming up.
And we know the way the Brown, the Bengals do business.

Speaker 2 Well, and think about how, like, if you're Mike Brown, you kept Marvin Lewis on a bland Bengals team there for like a Mesozoic era length of time. Like, there were no changes.

Speaker 2 And it's not like the kind of owner that's just going to flip-flop between coaches.

Speaker 2 And I would say one thing about Zach Taylor, like he's had to deal with the absence of Joe Burrow, it feels like endlessly.

Speaker 2 It's whether it's been for an entire season or half a season or chunks of time and survive. And it's like, you're right.

Speaker 2 We mentioned the EPA thing on our previous show that like when you get a functional quarterback in there, that offense and the parts there absolutely work. It's the defense that's been an issue.

Speaker 1 Okay, let's keep him right where he is. How about Jonathan Gannon in Arizona?

Speaker 1 That program is just not achieving flight. I think the question here, Mark, will be:

Speaker 1 does the coach survive because you decide it's the quarterback who's the problem?

Speaker 1 They played a lot better. Obviously, it was a tough, tough Sunday in Seattle, but overall, the offense has looked so much better with Jake Briskett at the controls.

Speaker 1 I tend to think this is a good spot still for Gannon

Speaker 1 because of that.

Speaker 1 If they could finish and

Speaker 1 be competitive, keep them right here. What do you think?

Speaker 2 I'd agree. They were eight and nine a year ago.
So, record-wise, it may be a step down. I think we've got a big quarterback change on the horizon, obviously.

Speaker 2 They've played teams really close up until this last disaster. They really have.

Speaker 2 And so, it's like, if you're Monty Austin Ford, if you're the owner, like, does this, do you keep this together to see like what you might be?

Speaker 2 And you know, my one thing with a lot of these, like, oh, if you're not there in two or three years, we just fire everyone. It's like, and then what?

Speaker 2 Like, what if we stick with a coach for six or seven years? Like, that's not the trend. But, like, Jonathan Gannon, I feel like, deserves a little bit more time.

Speaker 2 He inherited an absolute bundle of disaster, and they're still messy, but I'd give him more time. I'm keeping right here.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think Kyle Murray's a perfect scapegoat, James. I think

Speaker 3 that's how it's going to play out, too.

Speaker 6 The coaches have been the Kyle Murray scapegoat for a number of years, and now I think it may flip. And I think it may flip for what Mark's saying.

Speaker 6 I think they built this thing the right way over the last couple of seasons. And you've seen the players they've picked, the positions in which they play, and the way that they've kind of built this.

Speaker 6 This was the first year they were able even to do anything in free agency, like anything, because of the spot that they were in. So I do believe he's relatively fine.

Speaker 6 I'm just fascinated by this Kyler Murray situation after the year. I mean, just absolutely fascinated.
It might be this time the coach wins out. And then I don't know.
He may go play baseball.

Speaker 6 Like, I'm not sure what Kyler Murray's future is. He still has, I think the athletics still have his rights.
But could you see him being a backup somewhere? I really can't.

Speaker 6 So I don't know what the landing spots are if they end up parting ways with him.

Speaker 2 A Twitch star. Go on Twitch and just perform the way that you do what your heart's desired.

Speaker 1 The way the NFL works is guys come and go, right? They age out of the league, but there's always somebody to replace. Those guys that age out, and maybe he's now the new Russell Wilson.

Speaker 1 Maybe he has a couple couple-year window where he jumps around and lands in places. You know, I don't want this to happen, but look at the Jets as an example.
Let's say the Jets,

Speaker 1 Justin Fields is not the answer. Maybe they don't want to take their quarterback in 26 draft.
They want to wait till they have the three-first and 27, where it's supposed to be a great draft class.

Speaker 1 We need somebody. Okay, let's go get the new Russell Wilson, which is now Kyler Murray.
Like, I think he'll find a starting job in a new uniform next year, whether he's going to be successful or not.

Speaker 5 We'll see.

Speaker 1 Pete Carroll, is this a spot for Carroll? As the Raiders are having a disappointing year,

Speaker 1 is this fair to him to put him in the could I be any more nervous category, James?

Speaker 6 I know that speaking of some people there this past weekend, I think they've loved what Pete has brought and love what he has done.

Speaker 6 I just find it fascinating that like John Spytek's contract is far different than Pete's in terms of length, in terms of the way it's set up.

Speaker 6 I don't know if he wants to go anywhere. He still has a big say, but he still just wants to coach.
He's letting John Spot Dick kind of handle things to my understanding. But

Speaker 6 I don't think he wants to be one and done. I don't think the Raiders want him to be one and done, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's like two and done.

Speaker 6 And maybe he gets it more into the right direction and pushes it off to somebody else.

Speaker 2 Like, does he feel like the problem? Not to think about like, yeah, it's like, I think you're right. It's like the age,

Speaker 2 the career arc, where he is, like, it's going to be a short tenure, but I don't know why you fire Pete Carroll of all the people on this list. I, I'm with you.

Speaker 3 Larry David?

Speaker 3 Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Sounds good. Larry David.
Um, all right. Let's move to Molly, you and Danger Girl.
Mike McDaniel. Anything change there, James?

Speaker 6 Molly, you in danger, girl. Well, I think they want to keep him.
I really do. I think they want to keep him.

Speaker 6 And I think we saw that with the change with Chris Greer, but

Speaker 6 if you move on from him, you're just stuck in this Tua situation in 2026 that's just brutal. Like he's guaranteed $54 million no matter what.
I think nobody has gotten more out of Tua than Mike.

Speaker 6 And I don't know if anybody else can in terms of what Mike can do.

Speaker 6 They tried the soft rebuild and it's almost like he got to fully rebuild it. The roster has no identity.
I think that's a big issue. And I think that shows you why they made the move that they made.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 I could literally see him staying, but I think he's in serious serious danger, but I could see him staying.

Speaker 6 What I think, and this is the point I wanted to get in before I bounce out of here, guys, is this.

Speaker 6 I

Speaker 6 really do not think there's going to be a lot of openings this year.

Speaker 6 And I'm curious how this plays into it because there are a lot of thoughts around the league that there aren't a lot of openings and there's not a lot of top-tier candidates.

Speaker 6 And does that change the thinking of some teams going, is the grass actually greener or should we hang on to this for a year? I think that would be similar to the Michael, the Matt LaFleur situation.

Speaker 1 And last thing before you go,

Speaker 1 Kevin Stefansky.

Speaker 1 Is he in the Molly U in Danger category?

Speaker 6 An absolute mystery. I think Mark said it perfectly.
I could see him losing his job and getting the Giants' job immediately. Like, I could see that happening, and that's fascinating to me.

Speaker 6 But I just feel like the way they approached this draft and the way him and Andrew Berry went about it,

Speaker 6 it was in direct correlation with we're going to be here in 2026. Now, again, with that ownership, you never know.

Speaker 6 When people are jumping ship for the Rockies,

Speaker 6 you're starting to go, man, what's happening here behind a closed door?

Speaker 3 Absolutely not.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 honestly, if he becomes available with what I just said, with the lack of top-tier candidates, he would be highly sought after if he became available.

Speaker 1 All right, let's move Stefanski to Could I Be Any More Nervous? Shane Steichen, we had in the Molly, You in Danger Girl. Oh, no, we didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 1 He was in a lot of danger when the season started. He was.
It was. But then, with each win, as the season got more and more impressive, he moved up a tier.
And now he's all the way to death proof.

Speaker 1 How about that?

Speaker 1 That's a lesson for everyone.

Speaker 1 James Palmer.

Speaker 3 I'm happy for him. We're all happy for him.

Speaker 1 I mean, that is quite a, that's a climb. Somebody get him the information about our show.
He stuck it to us. James Palmer, go follow him at The Athletic.
Check out his podcast. Check out 89.

Speaker 6 Check out. That's what I'm going to do right now.
I'm going to do 89 right now.

Speaker 1 Don't tell Steve that you're late because of us. That's all.

Speaker 3 Just please don't tell me immediately.

Speaker 6 Do you remember these guys? I'm going to hold up a picture of us from the Super Bowl. Do you remember these individuals?

Speaker 2 He's like, I don't remember them.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 6 I know he planned to stop by the house one time.

Speaker 3 He didn't. Almost.
He planned to.

Speaker 1 James Palmer. All right.
We'll be right back and we'll hit the TNF preview.

Speaker 2 Okay, guys, it's 2025. Those days of only going to the doctor for emergencies are over.

Speaker 2 No more waiting until, you know, the night sweats turn to all day sweats or your fingers go numb texting, I'm fine, Dan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I remember those texts in the old days, Mark, but no more. It's time to take our health seriously and get things checked out when we need to.
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Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, the other week I woke up with a sore throat. It seems like it happens to kids, happened to me, an adult.
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Bang, A to Z.

Speaker 7 Think about that, Sessler's vocal cords were in danger.

Speaker 9 He's a podcaster, he's a very important person.

Speaker 1 Anyway, stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.com/slash heed to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today. That's z-oc-cd-oc-c.com/slash heed, zocdoc.com/slash heed.

Speaker 14 What's good, y'all? It's Vaughn Miller, Super Bowl MVP, SAG Master, and now your host of Free Range. This is where NFL meets real talk.

Speaker 14 Every week, I'm bringing you inside the game from locker room stories to league-wide headlines. You want football IQ, locker room insight, and real conversations with the people shaping the league?

Speaker 14 Welcome to Free Range with Von Miller, where nothing is off limits and every down counts. New episodes every Wednesday.

Speaker 14 Listen and follow Free Range with me, Von Miller, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 6 Thanks, Mark. I appreciate that compliment.
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 All right. We are back.

Speaker 1 Always great to have James on the show. It's like family, Ceci.

Speaker 2 He really is. Well, you know, we spent a week together down in New Orleans and got to know each other better.
Did meet his wife, so I don't know what the,

Speaker 2 I guess it was a light jab at us, but you're right. That's that's that shows actual relationships.
But

Speaker 1 James. That's classic human bonding, Mark.
That's just, you know, Josh Marie.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I don't understand how that works, but like don't take it personally.

Speaker 1 I know that's eaten you up a little bit because I think you thought you had made a connection with James Wife. And then for her, that dig, though.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I say I made a connection, but like we were, it was a friendly group, you know, atmosphere.

Speaker 1 All right. So there you go.
That's the hot butt update.

Speaker 1 And we'll see how the rest of the season plays out. And just, you know, a reminder that every year without fail.

Speaker 1 Just like I was saying with my point about who's going to become the new Russell Wilson or the new Justin Fields bounces around getting starting jobs for a couple of years before settling into a full-time backup or retirement role.

Speaker 1 Like five to eight coaches are going to go. It's just the way the league operates.
And

Speaker 1 right now, we're already at two on November 12th. So let's see what happens.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 I think he's right that it gets closer to five than eight this year. This might be just a few less this year.
Because if you look at that list that Connor created, created,

Speaker 6 though,

Speaker 2 but I normally would tilt that there's going to be whatever they say, but I think it's a little, just maybe a couple less this time.

Speaker 1 All right, real quick. TNF preview.
Jets at Patriots.

Speaker 1 It doesn't set up well for the Jets. I am going, like I said, I'm going to New York.
I have a flight. The flight gets out of here.

Speaker 1 What's going on with these airports, Mark?

Speaker 2 We don't know. We love airplanes.
We love airports. Do it my way.
Okay.

Speaker 1 I'm going to.

Speaker 1 Nice little Thursday setup, actually, Sese.

Speaker 1 We're going to record our show. I'll be recording from my buddy's apartment,

Speaker 1 Bob from Throwback, my bosom buddy, in Murray Hill section of Manhattan. And then I'm going to meet up with my brother, Kevin Danger, Hansis, and we're going to go to a...

Speaker 2 Two great guys.

Speaker 1 He's a great guy.

Speaker 1 A taping of the tonight show, where Bob is a staff writer for Fallon. They're going to check that out.
And then we're going to bounce out of there and we're going to go watch the Jets at a tavern.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 Mark, you're going to hold that down on the Thursday night recap. We'll jump in.

Speaker 2 Yes, Connor and I will. Connor and Justin and I will

Speaker 2 set sail, and then we'll

Speaker 2 fly you in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, give me a buzz.

Speaker 1 Sure. And maybe I'll pick up on FaceTime.
We could have a little conversation about the game, which I don't think obviously will go very well for the Jets,

Speaker 1 who, despite...

Speaker 1 beating the Browns. The Browns obviously beat the Browns more than anything else in that game.

Speaker 1 In fact, I think Justin Fields threw for 59 yards, if I'm not mistaken, and 44 of those yards came on a scream.

Speaker 2 Yeah, on a screen that

Speaker 1 Brees Hall caught on an all-out blitz for the game-deciding touchdown. So the offense is still a mess.
Brees Hall is doing his best.

Speaker 1 Garrett Wilson re-aggravated that knee injury, so he's out for another month, potentially.

Speaker 1 And now the number 29 Jets have to go to a place that's been more or less a house of horror for the the last 20 years, excepting one very

Speaker 1 special playoff game under Rex Ryan. They go to Foxborough to take on the number four Patriots playing out of their minds.
This feels like a game that Al Michaels will be talking about, you know.

Speaker 1 special nights at Dukes in Malibu by the third quarter. I don't know if it's going to be competitive football.
I hope it is, but I'm bracing for the worst.

Speaker 2 Well, it's like, so if you're going to a tavern to watch this, I was going to say, if they ever pulled it off and beat the Patriots, you would be heavily underwater alcohol-wise, but you might be either way because I think it could go very much in the other direction.

Speaker 2 The fact that we talked about all this coaching stuff back in September 1st, right? The idea that the Patriots are number four in our power rankings

Speaker 2 is a startling development. I think we knew that they'd be solid and thought they would be, but the fact that they're sitting right here

Speaker 2 speaks so much. And this is the night, I think, if you are just a casual fan, where the Patriots go from leaving that non-stop 1 p.m.

Speaker 2 Eastern window for their games to becoming a national, not fascination, but we understand that something is happening here. This team is growing.

Speaker 2 And even last week against the Bucs, to see what Trayvion Henderson did, what Kyle Williams did, this young class that they brought in, like if that continues to grow, and if that happens again on Thursday night like this is a very very dangerous team and it's like maybe Tom Brady has cloned their quarterback as well like it's um all right slow down slow down well I'm saying Drake May is little legitimately

Speaker 2 by the eyes of Vegas by the eyes of the desert an MVP candidate and he's playing that way and it's right there's nothing about it that isn't solid or real tom Brady's the greatest player who ever lived I'm just saying you know I don't know if we're I'm not ready to say that about Drake May I need to say well that was wordplay I don't actually think that it was width.

Speaker 1 I enjoyed it. I just think it's great.
But I'm just trying to tamp it down a little bit because the schedule has overall been soft. Of course, we give them a lot of credit for what they did in Tampa.

Speaker 1 But what's going to end up happening

Speaker 3 and the Bills.

Speaker 1 Here's what's going to end up happening. They're going to beat the shit out of the Jets on Thursday.
They're going to go to Cincinnati, and Cincinnati is not going to be able to get a stop.

Speaker 1 So they're going to beat Cincinnati. So that is eight wins in a row, nine wins in a row.
Then they're going to welcome the Giants on Monday night football.

Speaker 1 I mean, this is nice. They're going to win again.
They're going to be on a 10-game winning streak when they welcome the Bills into their building

Speaker 1 with a chance to essentially clinch the division because they're already up a game and a half now.

Speaker 1 That means the Bills have to just keep pace if the Patriots take care of their business in the next three weeks. If they beat the Bills, the division's a wrap.

Speaker 1 That would mean that they would be up at least two and a half games

Speaker 1 with the

Speaker 1 head-to-head tiebreaker in hand. So it's all set up for the Patriots to not just win the East, but potentially get the top seed in the AFC.

Speaker 1 So make no mistake, the Patriots are very much in position to be a Super Bowl

Speaker 1 contender and potentially even favorite in the AFC.

Speaker 1 And all they have to do now, Mark, during this stretch, after they checked that box in Tampa in an impressive fashion, is just take care of business and stay healthy and just keep beating the teams you're supposed to beat.

Speaker 1 And the Jets are one of those teams.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I think the Jets, you know, to smile on the Jets a little bit, like they've run the ball really well and they can do that.

Speaker 2 But the Patriots have held in four of their last five games teams to under 100 yards on the ground. They put up 1,200 yards of offense in the last three games.

Speaker 2 It's just, it feels, this feels like where the Jets trade deadline losses, where, you know, the stories of it, oh, well, they did that and then they go beat Cleveland and they've not lost in whatever it is, 20-something days in your world.

Speaker 2 But, like, this, this is maybe where that comes from.

Speaker 1 Not in my world.

Speaker 2 Well, in our world, in the world.

Speaker 1 The Jets have not lost.

Speaker 2 Just as a selling point, like, you know, if you want to look at, you know, I'm saying it's

Speaker 1 since you brought it up again,

Speaker 1 let me just check in on this.

Speaker 1 Let's see. The Jets lost the Carolina Panthers

Speaker 1 very dark day on October 19th.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 if we can knock off the Patriots, if we could shock the world, we're going to go a full month without a loss. I mean, this is historic shit.

Speaker 1 Hell yeah. Speaking of which, on that note, and again, I do think they're going to get crushed,

Speaker 1 but it'd be cool.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 1 Aaron Glenn continues to spar with the local media, and I don't know if he quite realized this is not the thing to do, but he continues to do it. Check this out.

Speaker 12 I'm going to

Speaker 12 pass on talking about injuries

Speaker 12 since Rich, he's not here, has all the answers, so you guys can get all the injuries from Rich.

Speaker 12 Is Garrett a candidate for IR or is that not something you want to ask Rich? I'm asking you. Well, I'm telling you to ask Rich.

Speaker 6 He's not here, though.

Speaker 12 A.G. Well, you better call him.

Speaker 3 No disrespect to me, Rich, but like, we want to hear it from you. You know, like, that's not a problem.

Speaker 1 You guys have been hearing it from me, but now since we're just reporting stuff, you know, that I haven't said, then maybe you should ask you thanks everybody see how i feel i mean listen it's kind of fun and the verbal sparring between coach and reporter is kind of a lost art at this point in the nfl but there is something that doesn't sit well he's referring to rich rich meany longtime beat reporter for now espn who reported that garrett wilson is expected to miss three to four weeks with a right knee sprain and apparently that didn't sit well with glenn but you know listen you're the head coach it's your job the other reporters there are just trying to be real with you and be like, hey, we're trying to get it from you.

Speaker 1 Everybody's trying to do a job here. And I think Glenn is not realizing that he's not in a position to present himself.

Speaker 1 And this is, I think, a recurring theme in Glenn's first year as a head coach, and it's been rocky.

Speaker 1 Like, you have to have a couple pelts on the wall as a head coach to even have that type of energy with the press. There's a give and take to it.
And if it's done with a wink, okay, it's one thing.

Speaker 1 But I think Glenn sometimes has taken the wrong lessons from people in his past, Bill Parcels,

Speaker 1 most notably, when it's like, dude, just this is meat and potatoes head coach stuff.

Speaker 1 Just have a good relationship with the media because in some ways they will decide whether you live or die in that big chair.

Speaker 2 Right. This isn't year three, year three of Rex Ryan, where we understand that this is allowed.

Speaker 2 Like, but I do think that Aaron Glenn, oh, that kind of made me laugh, but Rich Samini, who's been through hell 14 times with this team and is a great reporter, you know, he doesn't deserve that.

Speaker 2 But secondly, if you're Aaron Glenn, like you're passionate, we get it. I'd see a lot of fire and passion from him.
It's got to be hard to be losing the way that they have.

Speaker 2 You've got to, as a head coach in 2025, keep that. passion down in these situations.
Just do. And he should know that better than anyone.
He was a New York jet. It's like he was bathed in New York.

Speaker 2 But, you know, it's like it's playful and then it turns until it turns ugly. Coax 11 wins out of this team and then jab with Rich Samini.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 1 Anyway, they're on a two-game winning streak. They haven't lost in almost a month.
Good luck, Jets. I'll be at a bar drinking one way or another.

Speaker 3 You will. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. Good show.
Thanks again to James Palmer. Tomorrow, Connor Orr rejoins us for the week 11 preview.
How about that?

Speaker 1 And the Thursday night recap of the Jets Patriots. So make sure you're there for that.
Thank you for your support. Remember, 30k subscribers on YouTube gets the story of the century.
Connor Orr v.

Speaker 1 Sean Payton. We're not building that up at all.

Speaker 1 Okay, until tomorrow. Do what you must.
Heed the call.

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