The Weird & Wonderful NFC Playoff Race (with Michael-Shawn Dugar)

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Oh, I meant to tell you, yes, yes. Yeah.
On Sunday at the Sam Darnold Show,

on Sunday, he was like, Hey, are you Michael Sean? Say yes.

And then he was like, Yeah, man, I love your stuff. I'm here from like Scotland.
I used to listen to you on Heat the Call. I was like, I love it.
Wow. And just this is just in the line getting coffee.

And now you're back on the show.

Hey, welcome to Heed the Call and NFL podcast.

I should say that's slower for branding purposes. Welcome to Heed the Call

and NFL podcast. That's how you do it.
Feed it into the algorithm.

Ones and zeros, ones and zeros, global growth gaining. Spotify wrapped.

Who are you talking to at this point?

Dan Hans is here.

Mark Sessler. Shows the grave run the ones and twos.

Yeah, shout out to everybody who

is sending their Spotify

rap

info our way, showing their allegiance to the show, their hedonism.

And Mark,

that is very meaningful to us. And also people out there are like, my numbers are a little down this year, but that's because I'm watching the YouTube show more.
However you consume the heroes,

gobble us up, drink us down. We love that too.

I do think we uniquely have one of the greatest listener groups of any show out there.

Oh, yeah.

And it's been, you know, there's a lot of legacy people. Not every one of them are in my

favorites list at the moment, but like, you know what? I love these people that post how many hours they've spent listening to this show. That's commitment.
I know you're doing it at work.

You're doing it on your drive time. We love you.
We love you too. We love everybody.

Coming up later today.

But sincerely, thank you to everybody for

not just the support of us going back to the old days, but especially in this new era. And the show continues to grow and build momentum.

Momentum does exist, and Heed the Call is actual proof of that. So eat it, haters.

Coming up today on the show, speaking of things that we love, Michael Sean Dugar,

an OG of the Heed the Call world,

makes his long-awaited return as we dig into

the

fascinating, the wild, the wonderful National Football Conference, which we have far more affection for than the American Football Conference.

Now, you might say, let's say if the Jets, Browns, and Titans were not three of the five worst teams in football, maybe the show would be singing a different tune if those teams are fighting atop the conference.

But that's not the case. They're in the fourth tier of the HTC power ranking.
So as a result,

you know, we look at the NFC, which has so many interesting, good, and even great teams.

And Michael Schoen DeGar, who covers the Seahawks beautifully for the athletic and has an up close and personal look at that conference, is going to talk about that. And also,

what happens when the darnold hive comes to you yeah

michael showed are never a sam darnold guy we'll get into that and speaking of sam dardold uh you know we all have our moments sest dog on this when you do a show like this

you always you'll have moments that are high and moments that are low where you kind of put yourself out there on hot take island and then sometimes you just you die out there and sometimes you're lifted up and i'll use myself as an example this is this is everyone like for me, for every

Tom Brady is in a gradual decline, and then he wins three more Super Bowls or whatever.

If that's the low point, I would say in the history of our show, my high point was my undying faith that Sam Darnold could be a good NFL quarterback, which I took a lot of heat for over the years.

But I always thought Darnold just needed a better landing spot

and needed better coaching and better surrounding talent, and he could become a real starter. And that's exactly what happened.
So that was a W for the old Zeuser.

Mark has a bunch of W's that he keeps in his mind at all times. And maybe

I don't, I'm not able to track my win-loss record as much.

I can't remember what happened yesterday for the most part.

Actually, I take that back.

To Mark, this is the first podcast he's ever done. This is goldfish stuff with Heed the Call.
But yeah, and along those lines, something I said on

Sunday's show after the Seahawks had that tremendous shutout performance by their defense of the woe-begone Vikings, the team that Darnold helped resurrect a year earlier before going to Seattle.

I did share,

Mark, my thoughts that like

should be worried about Sam Darnold a little bit as he leads. He quietly, I feel like, hasn't played so hot in the last month or so, month and a half even if you look at it.

Yeah, right.

I mean, quietly in the fact that it's not really a talking point because when you win 26-0, for instance, against the Vikings, it overlooks the quarterback, but he does lead the NFL in turnover-worthy plays.

We'll get into that with Michael Sean Dugar, amongst other things. But

I'm just curious. I always knew Darnold could be a good quarterback.
Now, the one thing I never said is, can he be a championship quarterback?

And that's like one of the big questions that we need to find out about the NFC because the Seahawks are otherwise ready to go. And with that said, I decided

as we get into today's Wednesday end around show to unveil the NFC Pyramid of Quarterback Confidence. Like, how I feel, the NFC QB Confidence Pyramid.
That's another way to put it.

And look at this graphic put together by Gravy. Check it out on the YouTube show.
What do you want to do with that subscribe button, Mark? You want to smash it. Smash it.

With your right hand and then with your left hand. Break your keyboard.

We will not reimburse you.

Anyway, so here is, this is how I see when you look at the teams that are currently, there are 10 teams currently in the mix in the NFC, seven playoff spots, right? Seven playoff spots now.

Is that what it's up to? Correct. Yeah, we're getting there.
We're getting up there. We're going to get to 16 eventually.
Yeah, it's going to be the NHL from the 80s at some point.

So the seven teams that are currently in playoff positioning as we head toward week 14, and then the three teams that are in the hunt

right behind that group. So I decided to take those 10 QBs, put them in a pyramid, the bottom of the pyramid, which is where we're going to start are the quarterbacks I have the least confidence in.

And Mark, you let me know, Justin, you let me know if you agree with my NFC QB confidence pyramid as we look ahead to the home stretch of the regular season and the playoffs. Let's do tier one.

of the pyramid.

All right, this is not a disrespectful shot, Chicago Bears fans of Caleb Williams, who I know is progressing, and I know the Bears have won relentlessly this season, but I have Caleb Williams and Bryce Young together at the bottom of this pyramid.

They just have to show it because we haven't seen them in a big spot in December, in January.

I have them at the bottom of the pyramid, but obviously that could change a lot based on the next two months.

I mean, I agree in the sense that if Caleb Williams were in a different tier, I'd kind of ask, why, how do we know that? So, yes.

And Bryce Young, it feels like the whole team is a weekly proposition, and Bryce Young is sort of the symbol of that. So, with you.

Justin, you good with this?

No issues with this.

Thank you, Justin. All right, let's go to the next.

That's what we played for, folks. That was right to the point.
And I like that.

Just cutting out all the fat. No bullshit zone with Justin Graver.

All right, the next tier up. So those guys, they still have to prove something.
All right, so this is the second tier, Brock Purdy and Sam Darnold. I feel like they're a perfect grouping together.

I feel like Purdy,

for all the things he does well, and as I've said on the show, the heaters that he can get on where he's almost unstoppable in that Shanahan offense, he's also prone to what happened two weeks ago, becoming very turnover heavy and taking a lot of risks.

And, you know, those bad Purdy games are very much like the bad Darnold games where it's like, whoa, whoa, does he have three, four turnovers?

And wait, if you watch his game tape, could he add like five or six? They're similar like that.

So, so I think that there is a little bit of a higher ceiling and a lower floor here, but the floor is not so low that they're in the bottom tier because they've pruned themselves to a certain extent.

But I got to put Purdy and Darnold together. Where do you stand on that one? Okay, like I think you were really fair with Darnold, and I appreciate that you didn't like put him somewhere else.

Purdy's taken the team to a Super Bowl, He's won playoff games. He's been very consistent for the most part in the regular season.
This year's Purdy is a little more of a mystery.

So I don't have a problem with this year's Brock Purdy being in that.

You know, it's funny. I think this is the same exact Brock Purdy as we've always seen.
I don't see a difference.

I know he was injured earlier this season, but he has always been a little more hot and cold than I think people even realize. I've never been the biggest Brock Purdy fan either, fairly.

I thought they should have thought twice before giving him that contract. I just just think he's, again, if the goal is to win a Super Bowl,

he did have a chance at the end of that chase. I know.
Like, that thing is, he's taken them there and very nearly won a Super Bowl. But

I think Purdy is one of those quarterbacks that are, and Justin, I'd love to know what you think. Like, different people are going to see Purdy through a different lens, and

it's fair. Same with Darnold.
Yeah.

Justin? Yeah. I agree with Mark in the sense that if I had to rank.
I was hoping you were going to have another three-word answer there. It would have been

two quarterbacks

that I would put like Purdy above Darnold simply because of the been there before thing, whereas Darnold last year, when it really mattered against the best teams he faced in those last two games of the season, regular and playoffs, he didn't look like a guy that you should have a lot of confidence in.

Obviously, that could be like matchup based, and we'll give him another chance this year to go prove he can do it.

But I think putting them together based on what we've seen from Purdy this year does feel fair. But I would have more confidence in Purdy than Darnold.

Yeah, and it's, you know, it's kind of heartbreaking. And also, again, when you talk about sports are dumb ultimately,

Brock Purdy's final throw of Super Bowl 58,

when he drops back to pass in the red zone, he has a receiver open for a touchdown. I think it was, who was it? It was Jawan Jennings, but

Chris Jones blows up the play. It forces him to rush the throw.
And as a result, the 49ers have to settle for a field goal. And then Patrick Mahomes does his thing.

If he hits on that pass, if Chris Jones trips on his shoe laces, of course he's not going to be in this tier. Right, but that's exactly how it happens.

It's like 12 seconds of football changed his tier. Yep.

And that's the way it goes in sports. All right, now the next tier.

Pardon me. So here's the next tier is the second to the highest tier.
It's the tier where

I feel

confident that these guys can get it done in crunch time this season, that they will be individuals who can be the difference, not just

be along for the ride, but be difference makers and separating in this very tight NFC.

I have Jalen Hurts, Baker Mayfield, Jordan Love, Jared Goff all grouped together.

I would imagine there's going to be some Eagles fans pushback against Hurts. Not only has Hurts been there, he's won a Super Bowl.
He played awesome in the other Super Bowl. He's proven.

This is not so much an indictment of Hurts, but a little bit of it is. I don't think he's been great this year at all.

This is an indictment of the entire Eagles' offensive operation.

And the fact that they've struggled so much, and the offensive coordinator is getting his house egged, and I don't trust the head coach to have the answers. And we've seen this team meltdown before.

That was enough to take him out of the highest level of confidence that I have in him. So it's more structural than player.

And that's why Hurts is there. Do you have an issue with that, Mark? Big week for eggs.
It's a big week for eggs.

I don't have a problem with it because I think this exercise isn't like a career retrospective. It's like it's where they are right now.

And so, like, yeah, I think Jalen Hurts and that whole weird Eagles offense,

you couldn't put, I'd have a bigger problem if you stuck him in the top of this little Egyptian pyramid.

And I thought about it because he has been nails in the playoffs in the past, but I'm not really looking at the past. I'm looking at right now.

Baker has never really proven anything in the playoffs at a high level, but that's, I do have faith, and I know you feel that way, Mark, that Baker, if he ever gets that platform and can get to that second level of the playoffs, I think he has big moments in him.

He just, he just needs the right team in the right moment in January. We'll see if it happens.
Jordan Love, I really...

Like the way Love is playing right now.

He's a tougher one.

I could have dropped Love to the Darnold.

Doesn't it feel like you could get a stinker out of him, though? That's what I mean. That's the only thing.

This is a little bit of recency bias, but I'll blame it on Bill Parcells, who says the season starts after Thanksgiving or on Thanksgiving. And he played so well.

I just feel like he might be in line for a moment. And then Goff, yeah, Goff has had highs and lows.
He also went to a Super Bowl. He's also had bad playoff performances.

But I still feel like he can, in the right setup, take a team home. So they're all in that penultimate tier from the technology.
As Justin would say, I agree.

So you're good with all those?

No, I think that's, I think it's, it's,

I don't think I'd make any major changes to this list so far. I see where you're coming from.
It's about this season and what's happening in the present right now.

I didn't, I guess I'm just too good at this. I was hoping for a little discourse.
Great. Oh, we did.
We had a little disagreement on the, you know, but. I can't help it.

If I nailed it, what are you going to do? You know, I can't get things wrong on purpose.

Yeah, I wonder about, I mean, it's tough because of what you said. I have always felt that Jalen Hurts is propped up by the team around him in terms of

he's not doing the same things as the top passers in the sport.

But at the same time, like he's been farther than any of these guys in the playoffs. Jordan Love had a pretty good playoff beatdown of the Cowboys not too long ago.
Goff

made it, you know, they lost to the Commanders in a game they were heavily favored. Baker won the first game in how many years for the Browns in the postseason? So you have some confidence in him.

Hundreds be able to win. I believe it was.

But

yeah, I can't disagree. Like, honestly, I think you have done a fine job, Dan.
I mean, let's just call this podcast nailed it.

Goff is maybe the one guy that if we're saying Brock Purdy is below, like Goff is above Purdy. Like, I don't know.
Pardon me is. Take a stand, Mark.

I kind of think Goff belongs next to to Brock Purdy. Okay.

I respectfully disagree, but I see where you're coming from on that, which takes us to the top of the pyramid.

They've got two guys that I feel the most confident in right now when they get their opportunity in January, if they get their opportunity in January, that they are going to ball out.

Matthew Stafford, who's been

an MVP candidate this year. I know he struggled a little bit against the Panthers, but I'm going to give him a pass on that.
He's been incredible this season.

And Dak Prescott, who who I think is playing the best football of his career, I feel like he's been unfairly scrutinized at times in his career because of who he is, the team he plays for.

But you watch that guy play week to week this year. I just feel like I'll use a baseball analogy, like waiting years and years for Aaron Judge to have his October moment.

And then he played great this past October. The team let him down.
But like, it was like, there it is. That's the guy we've been waiting for in the playoffs.
I feel like Dak has that moment in him.

The team just has to get there and it's not going to be easy.

I can't agree with that one.

Okay. I think Stafford absolutely is

there's, he's like a, he's, he's a cowboy, not a Dallas cowboy, but just like a roaming cowboy who you trust to take care of the day and the task at hand.

I've never really seen Dak do it. Okay.
And it's a Cowboys thing, too. I get that, but I'm putting Dak in the tier below.
So you're those people. He's like, oh, I don't like that.

These cowboys are annoying.

They get too much cut. I think this year's Cowboys.
This guy's a player. This guy's a player in an offense.
You love Schottenheimer. You love Pickens, CeeDee Lamb.

Even Javante Williams on pace for like a 1,400-yard season. This team, Jason, you got Ferguson, the tight end that's on pace for like double-digit touch.

And this team is ready to go if they can just get their defense to stay at this level and win a few more games. I think Dak has

a magical run in him. That's a lot of ifs.

What I'm saying is when I look at that tier and you've got Dak Prescott equals Matthew Stafford,

equals, I cannot use that term. It's Stafford, and then Dak is.

The irony, the way we got into this conversation, Darnold was my big hit years ago. And now, wait till Dak gets in the playoffs and goes off this year.

And I'll be sure to be annoying and call back this conversation. And on the flip side, you could bury me if Dak poops is panting.
Oh, this was a setup.

This was a setup, another setup. All right, that was fun.
Yes, Justin.

I was going to say, I'm kind of with Mark there just because of the past playoff performances of Dak Prescott, where it feels like if this was a regular season tier, absolutely they belong together.

But if you're talking about who am I confident is going to get to a Super Bowl. Ah, but the ball, Noah, looks forward in time, not into the past.

I agree.

But it's a projection for Dak.

It's a projection for Dak, whereas with Stafford, it's like full confidence. So that's where I'm at.
Fair enough. We'll take that out in post.
Cool. All right, let's take a break.

And when we get back, the return of Michael Sean Dugar.

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Is that

I think it is?

That's Michael Sean Dugar's theme music.

An OG of He the Call.

He's a dad again.

That's right. He just put out a book.
Also, right. He's still covering the Seahawks.

Oh, my goodness. And yet he's still alive.

Money, Mike Dugar. Welcome back to Heed the Call, my friend.

Wow, thank you guys for having me. Love the music.
Haven't heard it in a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a father of two now since my last appearance. My book has since dropped since my last time.
Those things happened in the same week. Busy week.

Yep, the franchise, Seattle Seahawks, a curated history of the Legion of Boom era. You can get it on Amazon or wherever you get your books.
What's the response to it?

What are Seahawks fans saying about your book?

Man, the response has been,

it's been really good. You know,

the book is not a linear retelling of the Legion of Boom era because I just found that really boring after like 30 minutes of drafting chapters. I was like, this is going to suck if I do it this way.

So it's like a more curated, I bounce around, very, very inspired by the Last Dance documentary of how you started in 1998, but now we swoop back to like Scotty's childhood and then we come back to this and so I designed it that way and I feel like people really respected that saw the vision with it and got to the end of the book and like oh my god okay it all it all works together I think the real the real one in the last dance that inspired the whole style is how they did Steve Kerr hitting the shot in the finals where it's like all right you already know the story but then like all right we talk about all this stuff with Steve's dad and everything and how that meant to him I think that's also when they weaved him like Mike punching him and then you'd like whoosh back to the finals and you're like,

and you're like almost crying because you're like, wow, that was just incredible.

So like, I, I liked that and I designed it that way and wanted to get at like the heart of what made the team special beyond just like recapping plays that are already on YouTube, you know.

And the fans have really gravitated to that. So that's been, that's been amazing.
I'm also shipping signed copies to people as well. All you got to do is DM me on any platform.

We basically got like an assembly line here. Me and my hardworking wife just we're signing, we're shipping wherever you are.

We signed a couple of Scotland, I think, last week, Switzerland, Ireland, France. Got ahead of the UK going out today.

I would imagine with our strong international following, some of those people were exposed to Michael Sean Dugar and the bills. I'm about to tell you, yes, yes.
Yeah, yeah.

So we want some of the money, is what we're getting at.

Well, you have to talk to my people about that. But I ran into somebody at a Seahawks game, actually, from Scotland, I want to say.
On Sunday at the Sam Darnold show

on Sunday. He was like, hey, are you Michael Sean? I said, yes.
And then he was like, yeah, man, I love your stuff. I'm here from like Scotland.
I just listened to you on Heed the Call.

I was like, I love it. Wow.
This is just in the line getting coffee. And now you're back on the show.

If they ever adapt your book into...

like a mini-series, a prestige sports doc miniseries, I would do the, because you're a cinephile, as we know, Mike.

I would do the film trope that's popped up in the 21st century where the doc starts with Russell Wilson dropping back to pass at the goal line against the Patriots, and then it freeze frames.

It's like, you're probably wondering how we got here.

And then just start telling the story. Honestly, yes, but honestly, in Marshawn Lynch's voice with a lot of profanity.
Oh, and that's the East Oakland dialect.

Yeah, it's like, you probably wonder how the F we got here, huh, bro? All right, let me tell you, and then we shoot back. Okay.

There's an idea. There's an idea.
All right, Mike, listen. Let's start here because we just did the NFC quarterback confidence pyramid.

And if people remember season one of Heed the Call, there was a lot of conversation about Sam Darnold, who I was always a fan of, and his Viking season last year.

And then me trying to convince Michael Sean Dugar to join the Darnold Hive. And Mike, to your credit, you said, you know what? I'm going to just stay outside the hive.

And then Darnold becomes a free agent. And what happens?

Here's Michael Sean Dugar making babies and writing books and covering NFL teams.

And all of a sudden, he looks around and he sees the catacombs of a Darnold Hive forming around him as Darnold comes to Seattle. And I just want to say, like,

what is the Sam Darnold

experience as a beat reporter, taking your personal feelings about his ability

separate to this.

What's he like? Yeah, yeah, well, he's really boring, as most quarterbacks are, though. I mean, that's

there's no different than like Dak seems very boring. Mahomes seems like generally boring.

You know, I mean, the most exciting thing about like that Chiefs team, like this big dynasty, all these Hall of Famers, and the most exciting thing is like who the tight end's wife is, you know, honestly.

So you think about it, like quarterbacks are just generally not that interesting. So he's boring, but he's a really good player.

And honestly, my thoughts on him have aged fairly well. My whole thing with Sam was you take his 20 best throws, put them on a highlight reel, put it on TikTok.

It's the best 20 throws you ever see on the internet. They are like his 20 best are as good as Josh Allen, Joe Bro.

Just you want to go all the way like Dan Marino's best. Like it's the best stuff.
Darnold's got an arm. It's very special.
He does it throwing rolling right, rolling left.

And then I can take like his 20 worst throws. um and like four of them are in the rams game this week this year from week 11.

you know it he just looks unplayable um sometimes you know i think the last time he threw four interceptions in a game was the i'm seeing ghost games when he was with um the jets of like 2019 i believe that was so he's still got that in him i don't i don't really know if guys lose that to be honest that's like my new quarterback hot take like if you got if you got a four interception stinker ghost seeing experience in you.

I don't really know if those demons can be exercised in that way.

Really, you just are in this bucket of quarterbacks who you're just trying to build the best team possible around them so that when the weather drops, the temperature drops, they don't pee themselves.

And I don't think that that's necessarily an insult to Darnell. I think there's a lot of good quarterbacks in that.
I think Jared Goff's in that, for instance. I think Jalen Hurts is in that.

Honestly, like you build the best thing around Jalen Hurts so that if he throws for 128 yards in a playoff game, which I think he's done, you don't lose the game.

Yeah, Jared Goff, same thing. You know, Lamar Jackson might be in that as well.
You want to talk playoff performance

to be honest. So

there's a lot of guys in this bucket is what I'm saying. And Sam's in there and there's no shame in being in there.
But

I think the first 16 weeks of last season convinced members of this podcast and others that he was not in that bucket. And I think the truth is he is.

It's, yeah, like, I mean, I guess that's the trick with Darnold.

And you said it well, and it echoes what we talked about previously on the show with our NFC QB pyramid, confidence pyramid, what we think could happen in the playoffs.

Like when you've got a potentially implosion-oriented quarterback like Darnold, like in the locker room, because you're one of the few people that gets to go in there, talk to players, hear things, talk to others.

Is there a sense that the teammates around him don't even think about that or that they also know that Sam Darnold is one of these quarterbacks that could explode in the wrong way at some point.

Like, is there any, like, how does, how do the teammates deal with that?

They deal with it in the, like,

the inverse and their minds, but they're arriving at the same result. So I'll put it this way.
Their brands are all like, if we do our job, Sam's going to do his, right?

Which is basically what we're the same version of what we're saying. If the team around him is fine, he'll be fine.

But then the O-linemen are like, well, if we let him get pressured, you know, God bless, which makes sense. Again, that's a lot of quarterbacks.
Receivers are like, if we don't get open right away,

it can get dicey, you know, and everyone knows that running backs too. Like, if we don't run the ball and help him out in the whole pass game, it gets dicey.

I think

there's unique perspectives for each guy, though, too. You know, like Cooper Cup is a really interesting one, you know, for a few reasons on this team.

He had 1,900 yards before, so he has really interesting perspective on what Jackson Smith and Jigba is doing, which is really cool to be able to talk to Coop about that.

And then he also was on that Rams team that beat the snot out of Sam in the wild card round. And then there's somebody like Shaquille Griffin, former Seahawks, who doesn't play much.

He's back now, but he was on that Vikings team with Sam. So, and now he's their teammates again.
So he kind of, there's a lot of people who have different perspectives that I feel are valuable.

And yeah, everyone kind of knows we got to do our part. Like, Sam's really good, but he's not.

a superhero. And that's right.
You don't put it on his shoulders.

You're not putting the whole thing on his shoulders. And I guess that's a good way to transition into,

well, first, I'm wondering if part of this with Kubiak and how they handled this home stretch, because he does lead the NFL in turnover worthy plays. But also to your point, he also

has looked incredible at times this season. But

the strength of this team is the defense under Mike McDonald.

And

you wrote a really good piece focusing on Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy. Look at this, Leonard Williams and Sam Darnold.

If only one team could have them together when they were in their early times.

But Leonard Williams has been an absolute monster with Seattle since the moment they got him from the Jets for a second-round pick.

And what we saw against the Vikings, now that was a weird one because the Vikings absolutely botched their entire season because of the quarterback room. And Brozemer had no...

no business being on an NFL field for that. So like that game, I don't want to like get overboard and be like, oh, it's the new Legion of Boom.

But this defense, like, how special do you think this defense is top to bottom? And is it something if they could find the right balance with the offense and the risk-taking?

Is this a Super Bowl winner potentially?

How big are you in on this Seattle team?

I think the defense is that good.

And a stat to

another way to look at what Sam's doing, like, he's still top 10 in EPA per drop back, despite leading the league in turnover percentage as well.

So if we get turnover worthy plays, he's actually turning it over at a higher rate than Tua, a higher rate than Gino, but still, he is still right there with Stafford in terms of down-to-down efficiency.

That shows you how good he's been when he's just not giving the ball to the other team, which is a weird sentence, but I mean, anyone who's watched Sam's career is like, yeah, that makes sense.

He doesn't throw a pick, he might throw a touchdown.

That's how good he is. But it goes to the defense.

I think if Sam just doesn't lead the league in turnover percentage in the last two month and a half of the season, they can be a Super Bowl team because that's how good the defense is.

And I think the defense, when I look at them, I look at like stuff that I can measure on a snap-to-snap basis. Like splash plays are great.
You know, turnovers are great.

But like there's a reason that the Seahawks and the Texans, for instance, have better defenses than the Bears, who lead the league, I believe, in takeaways by a pretty wide margin, I think, too.

Because splash plays are cool, but down-to-down consistency is how you be great. You know, the Seahawks have like the best run defense in the league.

They have one of the best short-yardage defenses in the league. I believe they have the the lowest number of yards allowed to wide receivers.

You know, most teams' best playmaker is a receiver on a lot of these teams. So like they do things on a snap-to-snap, week-to-week basis that makes it hard to get explosives on them.

I think they're like a top five team and explosives allowed too on defense. So that's where these guys are so good.

Like you can, the pick six was great, but I thought some of Ernest's tackles, Ernest Jones, who had that pick six, were way better than either of the two interceptions that really just landed in his lap.

They weren't like the most amazing defensive plays in the world. And I think that's what makes these guys great.
It's what makes Leo so great. He's leading the league in defensive in sacks right now.

So is Byron Murphy the second, their second year first round pick out of Texas. But both have seven.

Like that's what they do every play, whether run game, pass game, is why these guys are going to be so hard to beat. And that's why even the Rams.

I don't want to say struggled, but like they didn't run away with a game. They had four interceptions.
You know, Jason Myers has a bit of a stronger leg and they lose that game anyway. The Rams do.

So, yeah, I'm in on these guys as a contender for sure, because when you play high-level defense like that, and you do have an explosive offense that they do have, Sam leads the league and explosive pass percentage, you can beat anyone on any field, I think, in January.

All right, so let's look at the rest of the NFC then, because right now at

9-3, Seattle still is the fifth seed because the Rams have the tiebreaker currently.

Of the teams that you've seen up close, who

have you been the most impressed by? And conversely, like who are you seeing a little bit as a paper tiger?

Yeah, most impressed by the Rams. That's a really just well-coached team, I think.
And not, I think, I know.

The NFC West, man, that's I've watched Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay just get guys fired from out of here. Arizona coaches, they got Pete fired.

You know, he just couldn't beat them, so he had to leave. And you can see why.

I mean, look at Kyle Shanahan, what he's doing over there with, I can't even name four 49ers defenders off the top of my head right now. It's unreal, and they're still piecing that together.

So the Rams and 49ers are, I believe, in, I'm not as sold on, let's see, Green Bay. They're really funky.
I'm not really sold on the Eagles.

I just feel like the Eagles have the same problems they had in 2023 with like, it's all behind the scenes. The talent is largely the same.

But then we're just, we're like six or seven weeks away from another deep dive, either from the athletic or ESPN or whoever. On like, here's why Jalen Hurts and uh Kevin Petulo,

yeah, Petulo. Here's why they almost fought each other in week 15, you know, like one of those that's like you can set your watch to that.
I almost got to see something like that is coming.

Uh, so I don't believe in them for that reason. Uh, the Bears, it's just hard for me to buy what they're selling with the Caleb thing.

Like, he just seems to be when I mentioned Darnold's efficiency, like on play-by-play, like, Caleb's like the opposite of that.

Like, Caleb, they're either just running the ball really well, or Caleb's just throwing it in the dirt, or just like throwing guys out at first because

he's like

addicted to playing baseball with these sidearm out-of-the-pocket throws that have like varying levels.

He does very little things like smoothly. Like, he's not like a

easy on the eye compared to some of the more athletic or functionally sound quarterbacks, that's for sure.

But if you're if you're a Chicago Bears fan who's never seen a 4,000-yard passer in your life, um, maybe it looks a little prettier, you know.

Yeah, I mean, and that's why I liked Drake May more coming out of that draft.

I just thought that you could play in structure more with Drake than you could with Caleb because I'm a Pac-12 guy, Pac-10, whatever we are now.

But I watched a lot of Caleb, I guess, is the gist of what I'm saying. I was like, yeah, that guy plays a lot of backyard ball.
It's great because he's faster than every Pac-1.

12, whatever, defensive lineman and all these Pac-12 safety stink. But that's not going to happen in the NFL.

Whereas I looked at Drake, I was like, oh, he can run, but he just likes to just carve people up with his arm from

the pocket. But I mean, honestly, on any given day, these teams, here's how I look at the NFC.

Every team has warts. How fatal are your warts? Like the Seahawks, we just talked, they have a pretty fatal one.
Their quarterback could easily just implode. You know, I think that

the Packers, their wart, one of them is like, if they get behind, what do they do?

Like, how often can Matt LaFleur run a shotgun play to Josh Jacobs on second and 10 when they're down nine in the second half? Like, that's his bag. He can't do that.

The Bears, what if Caleb has to actually throw? Like, on time in the pocket and win you a game?

The Eagles, what if Jalen Hurts runs out of Maya Angelou quotes at halftime and just can't function in the second half of a game? It can go by every team. So that's why I like the Rams the most.

I think their main wart is like, what if they're on the wrong end of turnover variants? That's pretty much it. Like, they can run it.
They can throw it.

They can rust the pass or they can stop the run. They can generate big plays on both sides of the ball.
They got decent special teams now, I believe, too.

So like the Rams and Seahawks, I think, are number one and two. But I think the Rams are like easily the best team in the NFC right now.
There's a team out there that is seven and five.

Mark has a little bit of a fetish for this team, to the annoyance of the other people on the show.

They are the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They have opened the practice window for Mike Evans.
They have opened the practice window for Jalen McMillan. They're getting healthier.

They've got a couple key players back in the last couple weeks. They have two games against Carolina in the final three weeks of the season.
Your belief level one through 10 in Baker and the Bucs?

Maybe like a six. I just think they run on vibes, it feels like.
You know, because Baker's very vibey. Like he's a vibey quarterback.
Yeah. You're right.

And I watched these guys drop 38 on Mike McDonald's defense. So I believe that

they can put up points, but they can also also just be duds.

It's not a fantasy football pod, but I have like two leagues where I have Baker, three leagues where I have Bucky, two leagues where I have Mike Evans.

So I've been watching these guys is the reason I bring that up. I watch them pretty intently every week.
And

basically, my fantasy success is based on whether Baker vibes well or his vibes are bad.

And they've put up a lot of stinker performances offensively because they're running on that. I don't think they have an identity on offense in part because of the injuries.

I think Baker's a gamer. He's one of those guys actually.
I'm

not a good quarterback. Like in the playoffs, I would say Stafford, you mentioned the quarterback confidence.
Like Stafford, I'm confident in in a playoff game.

Purdy, I'm actually pretty confident in. You look at his playoff record, it's actually really good.
He does not play bad in the playoffs.

Baker, pretty confident in him in the playoffs. His playoff record is pretty, his performance is pretty good.
The problem with Tampa is on offense, I don't feel like they have a consistent identity.

And on defense, Todd Bulls Bulls is living in like a,

it's like the bad end of the Flores thing. It's like, if we get you, we get you.
Like, this is a TFL on first down. Now you're living in second and 17.
But if you get us, you just got a 60-yard bomb.

And now we just give up a score. I just don't think you can live in that world, which is why I like Mike McDonald's philosophy so much.

He's like, we can limit explosives, but we can also stop the run as well. That's why their numbers are so good.

So I believe, actually, I honestly think, guys, if the Seahawks or the Rams or the five and they go to the NFC South winner, they're just going to beat the snot out of them.

That's like my early hot take. The five is going to smoke the four, whoever it is, whether it's Carolina or Tampa.

All right, before we let you go, Mike,

you mentioned Mike McDonald, by the way.

Let's do a little

into the world of Vegas.

Coach of the Year is a great race this year. I think Mike McDonald deserves

a lot more respect than he's getting right now.

Vrabel's running away with it.

It makes sense.

And anyone that saw my opening to the Monday Night Show might think that I would be angry about this.

But when you go from a top three pick to 11-2, and obviously everything he's done is working, I get it. He's minus 270.
Ben Johnson, all the way at 275. Mike McDonald, 650.

And then everyone else from Steichen to Cohen to Kyle Shanahan, Peyton, Canales, Schottenheimer are all deep, deep long shots.

McDonald has done the job, hasn't he? Mike, like full buy-in over there.

Yeah, and I think that the way I measure coaches,

the job they do, the quality of it is like how much of what you are is embodied in your team. Vrabel really shows.
I knew Vrabel would be a good coach.

That was just the easiest thing in the world when they hired him.

I was like, yeah, they're going to go back to the playoffs because All these guys have these coach speak, these isms, you know, and some of it just sounds crazy.

Like when Matt Patricia says things, they sound stupid. Like, we're not going to do that, Coach Patricia.
That just, no, we don't believe in that.

But like, Mike McDonald has gotten these guys to believe in a lot of the stuff that he talks about. Um, these little Mike McDonald isms that just come to life.

Like, one of them is like, uh, it doesn't have to be close, you know, like they just want to go out there and beat the snot out of people. And what do you know?

You look up, and the Seahawks have the best point differential in the league. I think they're at plus 133.
Um, so you know, it comes to life.

You know, they call one of the things I like culturally, they call the practice squad the ready squad they changed the name they printed shirts and everything hats because they're like you know what coach move classic coach move no that that's great that's good like programming there uh because yeah i want he's like i want all 17 of you guys to feel like when you get your number we're not sitting there like oh damn such and such has to play like no i'm excited that insert backup gets to play because you've earned the right because you stayed ready you know it's just that the messaging i think is really important there and vrabel has a lot of similar stuff on like how he gets his guys uh motivated too.

And yeah, Mike McDonald's just like he's killing it. He's killing it.
I don't know if he'll win it because I actually don't like how Coach of the Year is voted on. It's like wins over expectation.

You know, he's not going to win it. Vrabel's got it in the bag.
Yeah.

And honestly, I think you can make a good argument depending on how they finish for Shotty in that case, Brian Schottenheimer. Because in terms of expectation, like he was getting laughed at.

Like Jerry was getting laughed at. The whole process was getting laughed at.
Although the process was funky, so that's fair. But the result was also being laughed at.

Like, oh my goodness, you did all this and blocked Mike McCarthy just to hire a guy you already had. Well, you know, he looks like a decent ball coach.
Mike, you know,

you know, Justin from last year has some issues with control when it comes to gambling. So he's seeing plus $3,500 and he's going to put down one of his classic $10 bets.
I could tell right now.

I could just see it in his eyes.

If only I didn't live in Texas, you know, I'm limited. I have to like make a trip somewhere to actually.
Well, you willingly moved there. So that you created your own conundrum.
All right.

Without further ado, as we say goodbye to Mike, we can't let Mike go without delivering

one of his famous, iconic.

I mean,

the thing

that will be the first paragraph in his eulogy in many, many years.

The Money Mike, three-legged Olson parlay. for week 14.
Hit it, Justin. What's your name? G-Reg, what you do? Get how you drop it.

Drop my my drawers and let it see my third leg chilling on the seventh flow i gotta let these chickens know we great is in the house and i'm finna make these hoes

quick oh man that is such great stuff come on fellas let's get weed the sheer number of bleeps

you just at certain point you lose the song entirely

Oh man,

what great stuff.

I missed doing the

three-legged parlay.

also this i can't say i miss it because it didn't happen but i missed being on the show this time around because i would have loved to hear the mark diatribes about his browns you know uh because they are they're just so relevant and so topical every week for reasons that warrant a diatribe

i am i am uh physically and emotionally scarred at this point.

And there are verbal rants that occur at times, and we miss having you hear them. All right, let's get into it.
He's a survivor, though, Mike. That's the good news.

You're three-legged Olson Parlay for week 14.

Can I do the Cowboys game?

Can you do anything you want? Does that work? Okay, okay. Full freedom.
Let's see. Yeah, I like, well, I can't believe the Cowboys are plus three.
Yeah, hammer that. So let's go Cowboys plus three.

Thursday night, we're going to get to that recap preview next. Cowboys plus three.
Yep.

Seahawks minus seven. And I'm seeing Texans plus three and a half.
I love it. I love that all the way.
I'm very bullish on Houston, D'Amico Ryan's, all that.

I can't believe they're even dogs, to be honest. Yeah, I'm with you.
We were talking about that in the power rankings. I have the Texans going upwards.
They're putting it together. So there you go.

Cowboys plus three. Seahawks minus seven.
Texans plus three. Was that what it was?

I saw Texans plus three and a half. They're getting three and a half on Bet MGM, which is a partner of the athletics.
So I'm a company man here.

All right, good.

I'm seeing plus three and a half.

All right. Go.
Money Mike. Christmas presents off that.
Three leg. There it is.
You've said it all at Mike Dugar on Twitter. Like you said, reach out to him, buy the new book.

You can even get a signed copy. And whether you're from Scotland or anywhere else,

it's been great.

Great to see Money Mike go fully international.

Absolutely.

Yeah, man. Yeah,

big credit to you guys. You guys are, this heat is like just massive overseas.
Like my guys in London tell me all the time, they're like, dude,

this show is like, it's the number one show across the pond. I'm like, I can't do a British accent or I would, but like, yeah, it's a lot of love.
So I owe a lot of that to you guys.

Like I said, literally just getting coffee on Sunday afternoons. Like, hey, I'm from the other side of the world, but I know you from this podcast.
Nice to meet you. It's like that.

And Mike, we owe a lot to you, too, buddy.

Because when we were, I remember calling you from my parents' house in Jersey when we were just putting together what He the Call was going to be, and

you and Jordan both stepping up and giving us some structure and a little bit of identity in year one of the show was so important. And

it's so great that you're on the show and continue, hopefully, have a presence as we move forward. Maybe Super Bowl week with the Seahawks, you know? Could be.
Hey, yeah, I'd be all for it.

Anytime you need me and the kids' sleep schedules align, you got me.

That's a small window, though, during the week. I get it.

I get it. Shut it down, too.
That's what I say. Money, Mike, Dugar.
Thank you, buddy. Thanks, Mike.
Let's take a break.

Hey, Sass Dog, how's your Christmas shopping going? Have you even started, Mark?

Well, no, I've not gotten going on that. I should.
Yeah, well, I'm all set over here. But if you're like Mark, still hunting for the right gift, I got you covered.
Aura Frames.

It's the gift that makes it look like you planned it it all along. Thoughtful, personal, and easy.
Basically, the holiday trifecta.

Yeah, I always struggle to find a, I guess, a truly personal gift for the people closest to me. It's like it has to be meaningful, but not another useless item that ends up in someone's closet.

Don't have time for that. Exactly, Mark.
That's what's so great about Aura Frames. Last year, I gave an Aura frame to my parents, Deb and Keith.
They absolutely loved it.

I preloaded it with a bunch of family photos, some vacation shots, even a few funny ones of the kids. Now it sits in their living room rotating through memories all day long.

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What's good, y'all? It's Yvonne Miller, Super Bowl MVP, SAG Master, and now your host of Free Range. This is where NFL meets real talk.

Every week, I'm bringing you inside the game, from locker room stories to league-wide headlines. You want football IQ, locker room insight, and real conversations with the people shaping the league?

Welcome to Free Range with Von Miller, where nothing is off limits and every down counts. New episodes every Wednesday.
Listen and follow Free Range with me, Von Miller, wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, Mark, have you heard of Gold Belly?

Well, yeah, from you, but I don't know if our listeners have heard about it. Okay, for anyone who hasn't heard of Gold Belly, know this.

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You should have seen how impressed my family was when we brought out a red velvet cheesecake from Juniors that I had ordered through Gold Belly.

I think it was the first time my dad was truly proud of me. It completely stole the the show.
Well, that's a positive story. I mean, yeah, it sounds great.

I've always been a little skeptical, though, about ordering food online, right? Me too, Mark.

But from the moment our Gold Belly order arrived, perfectly packaged and tasting exactly like it would, straight from the bakery, I was blown away.

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All right, we are back.

Yes, I sincerely meant what I said. I always mean what I say on the show, but

what Jordan and Mike brought to year one of Heed was so important for us.

So it was so great to have Jordan still in the mix and to get Mike back on the show and

really get a chance to dig into the Seahawks

with Mike, which we've never really had a chance to do.

They're number two in our power rankings. And like what he was saying

about, you know, darnold and i feel like there's a a slight

put it this way sese i feel like there's a a slight adjustment that they need to make in terms of reining in the quarterback and protecting themselves and i think they could win even with even with um the wide receiver not being on pace for 2 000 yards there's it there i think they could level up which is a dangerous and scary thing to think

yeah i mean he made it and one thing i love about mike is that he's covering the seahawks but his takes are reasonable and measured like he's not swept away by them, which is his job, but he does a good job of that.

But, like, he talked about the fact that like Darnold had that meltdown against the Rams, and they nearly won that game. Like, they feel right there.

And if you can just get him under control in those key situations, and I think that's very possible. This is not like a, he's not a wild man.
It's just there's variance when he goes a little south.

But

I think we're going to have Mike on again because I think the Seahawks are one of the biggest stories in the NFC, in the league, and an NFC title-type team. Yeah, and throw it.

Can you throw up the standings board in the NFC as we get to Thursday night football, which is excellent, which is Cowboys versus Lions?

And if you look at it now, currently the Cowboys on a three-game winning streak at 6-5-1 are the ninth seed. Detroit's right ahead of them at 7-5,

the 8th seed. So both on the outside looking in.
And you can make a case, a very strong one, in fact, that the team that loses on Thursday night is probably going to be on the outside looking in.

It feels, it's not going to be an elimination game necessarily, but it'll feel close to it. The team that loses, almost you would imagine, is going to have to come close to

winning out to make it. And we'll start with the Cowboys side of it, Mark, because

as we said again, after that Raiders' Monday night win, here is the big test. And then they beat both Super Bowl participants.
And now they finish up with the last test.

If they pass this one,

and back to the Dak Dak thing, I know you guys aren't as high on Dak as I am.

If Dak and the Cowboys sweep this big three-game test, right?

Who are you going to pick against?

Can you pick against the Cowboys against anyone going down the stretch? Because they will have aced this test in every way. Well, and yeah, and they fixed

their biggest concern, or it looks fixed in terms of their defense.

That's changed. And so so the Cowboys, on offense, we always trusted.
And Dak Prescott, I mean, I think what Justin and I were saying was like playoff Dak Prescott versus regular season.

He's been pristine in the regular season. He, in the last three weeks, has had fantasy football finishes of number three, number three, and number nine.
And the Lions have given up.

the ninth most fantasy points to quarterbacks in this season. It's not just about fantasy.
That's telling you about production.

And it's great to see someone like Malik Davis make a play like he did last week. Like they're adding weaponry.
CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens are both looking unstoppable at the moment.

And that's helping Zach Prescott too. It's like it's Detroit who doesn't have Terry Aaron Arnold this week, a cornerback.

It's a big task to try to slow down an offense that right now is like absolutely blowing the doors off of people. And Detroit to me feels a little bit more, they're under more pressure.

The Cowboys are a surprise right now. I agree.
I I think there's an enormous amount of pressure.

That's why I like Detroit in this game, because I think Campbell will have this team ready and will have properly expressed to them the urgency in which how they, if they approach this game is a do-or-die type game.

And that said, there does feel like there's something off in the mix with the Detroit Lions this year.

And the injury issues are mounting again for the second straight year.

So you had, we didn't really hit on this because it all happened very quickly during the holiday week, but Frank Ragnow, who is, you know, such a great pivot in the center of their offensive line, but could never stay healthy, he announces he's coming out of retirement.

And then a couple of days later, it's announced that he has a grade three hamstring injury. I think grade three is when like your like hamstring explodes essentially.

And I was like thinking to myself, like, how did that even happen? How do you come out of retirement? And then you go to take your physical and you have a grade three hamstring.

Did it happen in the workout for the physical that his hamstring like exploded?

I didn't see, I don't know if there was an updating on the reporting, but I remember thinking it's quite odd that you that all happened so quickly in the news cycle.

And what shitty luck if that's indeed what happened, that it was working out ahead of or for the physical for the team. And then that happened.
So he's not unretiring. He's back in retirement.

You mentioned Arnold,

likely season over, shoulder injury. So he's on IR.
And then Imam Ross St. Brown, who got rolled up on on Thanksgiving.

He has not practiced as we record this this week, but they are labeling or indicating that it's a game time decision, which I'm not totally buying.

I wonder if that's a smokescreen to get the Cowboys to have to prepare for St. Brown.
But the idea that you would bring him back would surprise me when it was a significant ankle sprain.

And then on top of it, Mark, I would say like on the flip side there is...

To my earlier point, like this might be the season for the Lions. And maybe that's going to get this special wide receiver on the field, but he might not be himself.
He probably isn't.

And that's a problem because

you take St. Brown out of this lineup or that version of St.
Brown.

You saw once again with Ben Johnson in Chicago and Dan Campbell trying to figure this thing out on the fly on the sideline that the lines aren't special on offense this year. No, they're not.

They don't look like what they had formed themselves into. It was promising to see Jamison Williams go absolutely nuts last week.
Like,

that was the plan. That's what Dan Campbell talked about.
They've got to keep that going because I think to your point about Amon Ra, it's like,

even if he's playing, which I tend to think that that's not happening too,

is it like half the snaps or limited time share or work share there? Like, they need Williams to be what he is. They need Jameer Gibbs to step up.

It's like it's this game where it's probably not happening.

And you're dealing with the defense that's. I trust Gibbs to step up.
That's the one guy I definitely trust. It's can they get this offense to consistent functionality?

Can Jameson Williams have put him in a more prominent role? Can he be an approximation of St. Brown if he ends the game, if he's out of the game? And if Jameson Williams has to play more of a St.

Brown role, like we saw last Thursday, who's the guy that's taking the top off the defense if he's handling a different type of role?

There's a little bit of depth issues on their offense, which I never would have thought going into the season. Right.

And they just have flat out, it's one of these teams that we always try to assess when you lose coordinators um will it have an effect will it be all right will someone like dan campbell keep it all together i think there is definitely like a talent vacuum here in terms of like the coordinator position like i just i see it with these lines and they're trying to work their way through it and i trust dan campbell as much as i trust any head coach in the league to keep the emotional side of the team together and that's still intact but they they just look less punishing um they look different to me and you're getting the Cowboys at the worst possible time.

And also, Kendallis handled the biggest spot they've been in all season. It is the, we need a Thursday night game of this magnitude, and here it is.
Yeah, it's going to be great.

I mean, after seeing what the Cowboys

have done these last two weeks, I think the stage isn't going to be too big for them. It's just a matter of: can you keep this going against a Detroit team that I think

remember, like the Detroit Lions to me are the Buffalo Bills of the NFC. Like,

not even, it's not about even getting to the playoffs. The idea is to get to the Super Bowl.
And I just think, and this is when I do put a lot of this on coaching, is that

Campbell's going to have this team

with its hair on fire in this game at home in this setting.

I'm not going to lock it up because I don't want to do it on a Thursday game and mess up our show at all that way. But I feel very good that the Lions

get right and they bring the Cowboys back down to earth because as much as we have praised Dallas' defense for its improvement at every level, it's a little bit different to be in the spot against Detroit when they're as desperate as they are and they're facing their mortality.

It would be a huge letdown if Detroit doesn't even make the playoffs this year. I mean, that would be crushing.
So I expect huge games from the playmakers on this team that are healthy.

A big game from Hutchinson. I I could see that just giving Dak Prescott hell.
Gibbs and Montgomery doing damage. Jameson Williams making a big play.

Jared Goff playing well in the dome in this setting.

I like the Lions a lot in this game. Where do you come down?

They need Goff to play. It's a big golf game.
They need Goff in that tier that you put them in the pyramid.

I think they'll get it. They are just a different, he's a different player at home in Detroit.

I think the Lions

win a thriller over Dallas 31-30. Ooh, okay.
I like that. I'm going to go 38-27

Lions. It's the number 12 Cowboys in our power rankings against the number 10 Lions.

Saucy.

I got an update on the Ragnow thing. Oh, you do?

What you got? How did he hurt his hamstring?

Well, I don't know how he hurt his hamstring, but Eric Woodyard reported for ESPN that Ragnow had disclosed that he was dealing with a hamstring issue during the discussions with the Lions about coming out of retirement, but he and they didn't know the severity of the injury until he took that physical.

You know whose fault this is? It's not Ragnow's fault. It's not the Lions' fault.

It's the big mouth agent who wanted to throw a bone to one of the insiders, and it's like, could we have waited for a little bit longer?

If we knew there was a hamstring issue, we could have avoided all this. We wouldn't be talking about this right now.
Shame on you.

I'll pick the Cowboys to win because I'm a Cowboys fan now. I know

there he is. He's full Texas now.

He's got more guns in that house than Dom DeSantro

by three.

We had zero. Good stuff.
Good stuff. Great stuff.
Blah, blah, blah.

Remember, Heed the Call merch is available. Heed the CallPodcast.com.

And ooh, Patreon announcement. We talked that we teased at Buffalo Bills' Bills' love story, the Christmas special put out by Hallmark.

We will be doing a live watch of, what is the exact title, Justin? I want to give respect to the filmmakers involved.

Do you? Yeah, sorry. Holiday Touchdown, a Bill's love story.
Poster appears on screen. It's a festival.

Paradise. It's a holiday touchdown.

So make sure you, if you're not signed up for the Patreon, we'll drop that one into the first paid tier. And it's going to be all of us.

Everybody associated with the Patreon is going to drop in on the show and maybe even a couple other surprise guests as we do a live watch of that on Tuesday.

Next Tuesday. At what time, Justin?

Have we set a time? What are you guys? What are you going to do? I'm putting it all in your left.

Let's say, like, I don't know, 5 Pacific, 8 Eastern.

Yes, 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 Pacific, next Tuesday, holiday touchdown, a Buffalo Bill's love story.

We'll watch it. Mystery science 3,000, that bitch, and have a good time doing it with a little eggnog, with a little spicy mix in it.
How about that? Join the Patreon, patreon.com/slash heed the call.

All right, we're back on Thursday. Connor will rejoin us.
We'll break down all of the week 14 action to come and recap the game we just previewed. Mark, final words.

I want to say one more time, thank you to the people that listen to this show.

We're getting close to our 30,000, right? How close are we? 30k challenge on subscribers. Absolutely, Mark.
What a surprise to come for the listener if we hit that. We better hit it soon.

Smash that button. Smash it.
Mark demands you smash.

Till Thursday, do what you must. Heat the call.

Kishana wanted to pay homage to her son. I lost my son to cancer when he was just 14 years old, and I came to United Healthcare to make a difference.
She instantly made an impact on others.

Anything that I could do to honor him, I understood I was once that person on the other side. Through her work, she's been able to turn her pain into purpose.
I took it from my boy.

He gave me so much. Hear more stories like Hishana's at UHC.com.

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