You’re Missing Her Signals! Dating Expert Talia Koren on How to Tell When a Woman Likes You

how you show up after a first date is really, really important, way more than how you show up on the first date. All right.
Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I'm your host, dating coach Conal Barrett.
I'm the real life Hitch. If Hitch was a skinny, nerdy ginger who has never slapped Chris Rock.

I like to help guys date with confidence, make real connections with women, and do it by being authentic. No sketchy pickup artist moves needed.
And today, I'm always excited to talk to a fellow dating expert. And I love talking to women who either have dated, are dating, or in the case of my guest today, have gone through the gauntlet of dating and have found somebody wonderful because women know so much about what women want.
I'm thrilled to welcome Talia Corrin to the podcast. She hosts the Dating Intentionally podcast, which is a really great podcast.
Go check it out on Spotify or wherever you get your pods. And Talia shares very insightful, no-nonsense advice to help people like you navigate the complexities of the dating world, to not overthink, to have some fun, have some success, and look at dating as an experiment, which I want to talk with her about.
She also has some great yarns to share about going on 64 first dates in under a year.

So we're going to get into that.

Talia, welcome to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.

I'm so excited to be here and thank you for that lovely introduction.

I'm excited to get into it.

Yeah.

We were just talking before I hit record and you said, oh, I just want to help people not

think so much and underthink and have more fun.

So I'm going to try to take that advice on this podcast. I'm going to get rid of all my 84 questions I planned for you.
I'm going to read them all. Actually, no joke.
I used to go on first dates back in the day when I was really bad at this. And I had pieces of eight and a half by 11 paper with all these lines and stories and things to say.
I would go into the men's room in

the middle of a break from the date and look at stuff. Oh my gosh.
It's reminding me of my grandpa

who literally had flashcards with jokes in his wallet. Do you remember? No, they're all the

typical jokes you would get. Just open up any joke book and it's the most obvious thing you've

heard a million times. Grandpa jokes? Yeah.
Nice. I mean, look, everyone has to

Thank you. joke book and it's like the most obvious you know thing you've heard a million times grandpa jokes yeah nice that's that's what it was i mean look if that's where everyone has to start somewhere right if that's where you're starting look at where you are now i mean it's okay okay so 64 first dates this is the one planned question nothing else will be planned you have my word this is my one plan or at least planned topic.
The 64 first dates, I like to look at extremes. Do you remember what was the ESPN highlight moment, the best first date you had? And if you don't say your husband, you're probably going to be in trouble.
Look, I can't say it was my husband. I think that's kind of the point.
Look, on my podcast, I usually women and I think the advice does differ here where it's like sometimes you don't immediately feel the spark or it's just kind of an first date but that doesn't mean that it's not gonna go somewhere but in terms of if we're just looking at first dates my favorite first date was with someone I only had that one date with but we he basically planned uh to pick up a bunch of pastries a cafe he loved. And we had a little picnic where we tried all of the pastries.
And it was just so easy and cute. And it was a nice day.
It was his idea. And we just got to talk about the pastries and try different ones.
And it was very relaxed. I loved it.
That's great. You can't go wrong with pastries.
Oh, it was a great idea. I think you should steal it if you're listening and you can eat gluten and you like pastries.
Did he, were you two talking about pastries leading up to the date or was it something that he just pulled out of his... No, we were talking about cafes in Seattle, I think.
And he wanted to introduce me to his favorite one. What I loved about dating in Seattle was I'm not from there.
I'm from New York. And so dating helped me explore the city more.
That was really why I wanted to date. It was part of my social hygiene.
It was part of my, like, just how do I get to know the city better? So a lot of guys introduced me to great places that I fell in love with. Even if it didn't go anywhere, I learned some new great recommendations.
What was the best pastry you had on that date? Oh, I don't remember. I mean, I love just a plain croissant.
I don't know. I like the classics like vanilla ice cream, plain croissant.
You really can't go wrong. You have to appreciate the simplicity.
I went to Paris this last summer with my girlfriend, Jess, and we took a croissant making class. It takes so long to make a croissant like it's like a four five six hour process if you do it from scratch yeah doesn't it make you appreciate it more yes yeah every time I see a croissant I now think that's so much fucking work and I also think oh my girlfriend and I did that together so I feel very cuddly and warm about it but also like damn i don't want to put that much effort into baking paris so romantic that sounds amazing yeah yeah it was sort of an anniversary trip that we took and and i took up baking for new year's i'm now baking for her almost every saturday that's so sweet yeah did you any, have you made or abandoned any new year's resolutions so far? Oh my gosh.
Uh, I don't, I'm, I know I'm not a resolution girl. I'm a mantra person.
So I every year have like a little mantra to keep in mind. And this year's mantra is very simple.
It's what if I can question mark, what if I can do that? What if I can do the thing I am wanting to do? And that's been a very powerful, even at the gym, I'm like adding on weights to my squat. I'm like, what if I can? What if I can just do this extra 5, 10 pounds? And it really gets me through.
Yeah, it's optimistic. It's hopeful.
Yeah, so that's my resolution this year. I wish that I, back in the day of my dating struggles, which you know a little little bit about you've been nice enough to check out a couple episodes of this here pod i used to think well what if the sky falls when i go up to that woman or what if on that first date she thinks i'm i'm lame or boring so i think it's so easy go ahead what if yeah what if it works out it's like you gotta flip it i think it I think it's okay to have those thoughts.
I think it's fine to go into things being like, what if it fails? But then you have to get into the practice of like, let's flip it. Let's just for every what if it fails, do the counter.
What if it works though? Yeah. What if? Right.
What if she likes me? Yeah. What if I make her laugh? What if it goes great? Exactly.
What if you get married? Right. Or what if it's a disaster, but you have a hilarious story? Yeah.
Which I'm sure you have some. Any good, any good disaster stories or just, boy, that guy was weird stories from your 64? For sure.
So my, my worst first date in contrast, see, okay. The best one I described was like short and sweet.
I love, I love a short first date. And that's usually what i recommend to people for the first date keep it like more like a vibe check it shouldn't be longer than like an hour i mean you can always extend it but go into it being like this will be an hour if yeah the worst first date i went on was a dinner first date and this was someone i had a phone call with before like we had a screening call so we chatted for like 45 minutes before we had our first date and then then he took me to a restaurant.
He wanted to get drinks, appetizers, dinner, dessert, the whole thing. I broke my own rule and said yes to this.
And he didn't ask me one question. No, he asked me one question when we had drinks and didn't ask me another question.
Not only did he not ask me another question, every time I asked him a question, he would start taking a bite of food. And had to try i had to it was so awkward i had to start trying to time my questions around his eating because but it's still like he would i'd be like so like do you have any siblings whatever and then he'd like eat and i was just like hanging in the air it was so awkward it was the most exhausting hold on let me finish chewing this hot dog before i ask you my next question sorry and then at the end of the date we were sharing dessert like i was so ready to go i'm like god damn he wants dessert we're sharing these like churros and i and there's like a little left we had a whole dinner and drinks i'm not gonna i was full and he's like are you gonna finish that i'm like no no like i'm good and he started doing that food pushing thing on me and i hate that like oh don't waste't waste it.
I'm like, I'm good. I'm not hungry anymore.
Why don't you eat it? And it was the worst. And he had the audacity to ask me out again.
And I was like, how are we on the same date? Yeah. I feel like there's these two extremes men tend to fall into, these two extreme polarities of asking only questions, being interrogated like you're in the back room of the NYPD.
Or in this case, this guy just, was he talking at you? Was he talking about himself? Was he talking about how his food was tasting? What was he talking about? He was barely talking. He would answer the question very succinctly and not even be like, what about you?

So I would just pick it up as if he did ask me that and just start sharing my answer.

I'm a pretty good conversationalist. I can pretty much talk to anyone and I can feel comfortable pretty much talking to anyone.

But sometimes it is a struggle and it wasn't fun.

I think my whole thing with dating is I want it to be fun, even if it doesn't go anywhere. I think with women, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves.
We have our biological clock, you know, there's a lot of like pressure to make sure it goes somewhere. But I figured out that if I just focus on being in the moment, having fun, I don't have to worry about that as much.
And I can still just enjoy my time. Great.
Well, what's your blueprint for fun? What's fun for Talia on a date back when you were single? Yeah. I mean, even now with my husband, it is, I think, really talking about things I like talking about and also finding the common threads that we both like talking about is the fun part.
Also, just being in the environment, being in the moment, noticing what's going on around you, talking about that. I think dating is not fun when you go into that interview mode, when you're trying to figure out, okay, what's not going to work about this? Where's the thing? Where's the red flag? Where's the deal breaker? It's the search for what's wrong with us.
When it could just be, what are we going to bond over? What's a weird thing that most people wouldn't know about you? Like that's what makes it fun for me. Common things you're both interested in.
Yeah. And even with my husband now, like I'm going to on our dates and we still date, you know, we're married, we still date.
I'm going to bring up things like Star Trek and things like things that he's interested in because I want to make sure he's having a good time too. And I want to make sure we're connecting on things.
You don't have to just have these deep conversations about our relationship all the time, which is a trap I think a lot of couples fall into. Talking about the relationship.
And the future. Yeah.
Yeah. I think that my girlfriend and I haven't fallen into that trap yet I don't think we will but what I remember about when I first met Jess to your point of of topics that the other person is interested in that's really important empathy and a calibration to okay what are they going to enjoy talking about as much as me and And I let it out somehow.
I'm a huge Beatles nerd. Like I know every Beatles song.
Oh my God, amazing. By heart, pretty much.
And I remember Jess was texting me. We're two or three dates in, still very much courting, but really liking each other.
And we had really good banter. And I remember she would just send me these little Paul McCartney updates.
She's like, hey, look, Paul's touring. Are you going to see him this year? Or, oh, there was a Netflix special for Paul.
And as a dating coach, I knew what she was probably doing with some intentionality. Not that that didn't hurt it at all.
I found it extra heartening because I could see that she was really putting in that effort to make it about things that I cared about. And I certainly tried to return the favor.
That's one of the, I think most underrated way to show interest to someone is by showing interest in their interests. And I think that it's a really great way for anyone listening to show interest in someone without going over the top.
It's, it's so such a warm, fuzzy feeling when I bet you felt amazing when she was bringing these things to you about Paul McCartney and the Beatles because you're like, wow, she listens to me and she's engaging with me. This is a bid for affection right now.
No, it made my day. And I certainly tried my best to do the same.
So I try to take my own advice when I'm single and dating, which it's been a while now. But to your point about topics, and maybe to an extension, that would be the tone, the vibe of a good feeling first date.
I tell my guys, tell me what you think about this. And maybe you have your own tip on this for women.
I'm curious how you guide and instruct women. But I tell my guys, imagine there's a little director in your head.
There's a littlein scorsese there's a little steven spielberg up in your brain watching the date and if it's good topic if it's a good vibe just keep let it roll don't get in the way and if you notice oh we've been talking about politics for 10 minutes or i've been droning on about bitcoin for an hour maybe it's's time to go cut. Let's change the scene.
What do you think about that? Yes, I think having the awareness is really important. It's a tricky balance, right? Having the awareness of both being present in the date, what you're talking about, and also realizing, oh, we've been talking about Bitcoin for 30 minutes or whatever.
Then it's probably time to switch it up, ask a question about them or bring up something you are really excited to talk about. That's something different.
Yeah, I agree. I mean, when I had my first date with my husband, we talked a lot about his work and my work and I published a book.
He has a PhD. We were kind of comparing notes on the notes on like the things we've done and um but i that's like all i remember about our first date you know what i mean like when we had our first date i literally thought i would never hear from him again why why did you think that i don't know i think we had it was a digital it was a virtual first date so it was like like how we're talking right.
It was literally on a computer like this. And he was moving to Seattle from the Bay Area.
And I just had this image in my head of him just lining up a bunch of virtual first dates just kind of to dip his toe in the water to see what's going on in the dating pool out here. And I'm like, I'm never going to hear.
I just had that feeling, but he was very persistent. How so? How did he show that persistence? And yeah, I love talking about this.
I think it's a great example for guys because he was, we texted after, I think how you show up after a first date is really, really important, way more than how you show up on the first date. So we were texting after, he didn't text me every day, but he did text me every few days.
And I was like, oh, I guess he's still interested. I was just kind of surprised.
And I was rolling with it. I wasn't sure.
I was like, I don't know if I like this person yet, but he's persistent. I didn't see any red flags.
So let's keep going. And then he kept asking me on these phone call dates until he eventually moved.
It was like a month of that. and I just really appreciated his confident persistence.

He didn't try to move things forward too quickly. He didn't bring up sex, which was like a huge green flag, huge.
And he just kept asking to spend time with me, which was awesome. Okay.
You probably already answered this question, but I can hear my listeners saying, Connell, go back. She said something I must know about, more about.
You just said that how a guy follows up after a first date is more important than the date itself, the first date itself? Yep. Women are really- Keep going.
This is your TED talk, or I want to hear it right now. Give me a close note.
So here's the thing. I think anyone can do the first date song and dance.
You know what I'm talking about. It's like you show up and you're charming and you can ask questions and you have your story about yourself and all those things.
You can be like, oh, this is so fun. I can't wait to see you again or whatever.
Okay. Then women want to see follow through on that.
So if you're ending a date and you say, this is great, let's do it again. You need to follow through on that and you need to send a text within ideally within like an hour after the date up to 24 hours is fine it says like hey that was great let's do it again that's it that's the text okay devil's advocate but but isn't that needy isn't that trying too hard no connell that that makes you stand out in a dating culture that's full of flakiness but But I don't want to be thirsty, Talia.
No, you got to be thirsty. I say this to women too.
I say this to women too. This is my whole thing.
If you're interested, show interest. You need to get over it.
You need to get over that. And I'm over here.
Look, guys, I'm in your corner. I'm over here telling women to do the same thing.
This isn't like only men need to do this. Everyone needs to do this.
Everyone does. That's fantastic.
Absolutely. So some tips here for the post first date.
Really the real work starts after a really good first date. Yeah.
The important work. So follow up within 24 hours.
Don't be afraid to send that text within minutes or an hour of the date. It's awesome.
It's so attractive when you do that. It's really a huge turn on.
And if, okay, I also want you guys to know, like if she likes you back, it's not going to affect anything. And if she doesn't like you back, it's also not going to affect anything.
So it's like if she walks away from the date being like, I hope you ask me out again, she's not going to be turned off by this. And if she walks away being like, I don't think that was the right guy for me.
Yeah. Like it's not going to really going to change the outcome of her feelings anyway.
So you might as well show interest when you're interested. Yeah.
I think that's a great, that's a great tip. You struggle with dating, right? Sure.
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I think that the sticking point for guys is, well, I don't want to come off as needy. I don't want to come off as too try hard.
And what I say to them is, I say, don't worry about how much you text. Worry about that your texts are at least trying to make her smile.
They're trying to give her something. They're trying to extend the date in a sense.
You're not asking for anything. You're not sending her 12 dick pics.
You're just extending the good vibes and making her smile. And if you're giving her something that she values within reason, assuming it's relatively 50-50, 60-40, back and forth, you can text as much as you want.
I agree. I think the most most important thing though i in addition to what you're saying is get that next date on the calendar no one wants a pen pal i think men and women both do this where we're texting a lot and no one's like making the move to be like so when's our next date and i do think women want the guy to do that which i find very annoying but like i'm i don't like the general aspect of, but I will accept that most women out there who are dating men do want the guy to extend that follow-up invitation for a date too, if there's interest.
Okay. So let's go back to the first in real life date.
Let's go to your first in real life date with your now husband, who I understand is a ginger. Who I got on Hinge.
Oh,, on hinge. Okay, great.
Yeah. And so he followed up after that video date and then was the in real life date next? No, we had so we had four virtual.
Oh, basically, because it was he was a month out of his move. And I would not have pursued anything with him if he didn't already have a job and apartment in my location, It wasn't like he was exploring.
He literally was moving. A lot of people do this.
You're about to move. You get on the apps in the city you're moving to to check it out.
I did that. It's normal.
And good on him for actually making time with me, even though it was virtual. So he moved.
I planned our first date because he was new to the city. I had already been there for three years for two years and we met up at a brewery near my place and if you're listening in seattle to fremont brewery which is amazing great date spot and we had a beer then we took a walk there's like a park nearby and then we got boba after like i wanted to extend the date because i was having a good time talking to him.
He made me feel comfortable and safe. He didn't go for a kiss, even though I knew.
I think there was a moment where I'm like, oh, he's going to try and kiss me. And I'm so glad he didn't because I wasn't comfortable yet.
It takes me a while to warm up always. So I'm really glad he kind of read the room.
He's just really good at reading the room. Nice.
Yeah. So it's just noticing your body language, the overall vibe and sensing, okay, now's the time or now, now is not the time.
Yes. Yeah.
But the, I think he was, he, he understood that I was exciting the date and that was me showing interest, right? Like I was like, Oh, let's like, I was like, okay, let's want to go do this. do this like want to go for a walk I'll show you this park and I think it's like you don't always need the kiss to show you're interested you know like there are other ways to be like I am enjoying this or I'm enjoying your company fantastic and yeah not to literally make you kiss and tell but when was the first kiss was it the second in real life yeah Yeah, so he followed up for a date too he took me to a tapas place tapas is a great uh i would say second or third date because you can really get a you can get like have a menu plan it's not always fun like when you like have a menu and you're like trying to figure out what to order and you can really learn about a lot about someone by how they're ordering i think i don't know what do you think wait what can you learn about somebody by how they order like you can learn kind of like what they're i don't know i'm a big foodie he's big foodie so it's like what your food priorities are what your flavor profile preferences are like are they really healthy are they kind of more indulgent like and i also like are do they want to splurge they get the most expensive thing or are they kind of hanging out more on the cheaper things? Not that that matters to me, but like you can learn a lot.
That's true, actually. Also, it's collaborative.
At a top-less place, you're doing small plates. You're sharing everything.
So it's like, it's collaborative. On our third date, my girlfriend, Jess, we did a reverse date.
We did dessert first. I love that.
We said, let's get dessert first. And that was fun.
And then we went and we were like kind of full by the time we went to the nicer restaurant. What I remember about her and she's still, this still comes out in her cooking and in her culinary pursuits is she hates, she's like, we can't, we can't throw any of this food away.
It's just wrong to throw food away, but there wasn't enough left to do a take home. So we're basically forcing ourselves to finish all these.
I would not enjoy a date with your girlfriend. Yeah.
Because I'm like, get it away from me, throw it out. I don't care.
Yeah. We were like a couple of geese that were being force fed.
That's so funny. For the foie gras.
But that told me something about her. It's like, oh, I don't want to waste food.
And she loves food. She's a big foodie as well.
We talked a lot about food. Yeah.
Yeah. It's a great topic to get into.
Anyway, at the end of the date, he did go for the kiss and it was definitely surprisingly better than I thought it would be. Because I, again, I wasn't sure about him.
I was very skeptical and neutral and lukewarm on my husband the first three dates. By the end of the third date, I was crushing hard.
It took three in-person dates for me to feel the spark, to feel attracted to him. I did not think he was ugly.
Okay, people think like, oh, you're going on dates with people you're not attracted to. No.
Attraction for women just takes a little bit longer sometimes. It's different for women.
And I think men really need to understand this. We need to feel trust and safe because when you think about it, there's way more at risk for us when we get involved with a man.
And I don't know if all women really realize that either. But it's like you're not going to feel immediately attracted to someone.
And that attraction, even if it it's immediate can go away as you learn about them if they're a huge asshole like you know right so yeah so three interesting i'm not totally surprised but i'm intrigued so he was a in terms of relationship material he was in the maybe category after one or two dates um you know he was i I would say he was actually in the yes relationship material, but it was more like, do I like him? And I had, so my dating journey was focused on my needs. I had a list of five needs that I, that were non-negotiable for me and a partner.
And so my agenda in the first three dates, again, I wasn't discussing this with the men I was seeing. This is my personal internal decision making.
Sure. My agenda was, can I figure out if they can meet my needs? Obviously, figuring that out on three dates is unrealistic, but I wanted to do the best I could.
Yeah. And so by the end of the second date, he's really funny.
So he uses humor to deflect a lot. So cracking into his personality was kind of a challenge for me.
He might be my twin, longer twin brother. It's really similar.
So I think he wasn't opening up a lot. And I think in my head, I was like, okay, if I don't learn what I need to learn about him by the end of this third date, I'm going to move on.
But that didn't happen. I asked him very, asked him very direct questions about what I needed to learn about him.
And it ended up being a fantastic date. We got sushi and we went to a comedy show.
And, you know, by the end, it ended with like a makeout in his car when he dropped me off at home, which was, and then the next morning he sent me a Spotify playlist and I was like, I'm done. Yeah, you knew.
That's great. Can you share one or two of the needs that were important to you? Yes.
So my most important one I was looking for was someone who has a desire and the means for novelty. And that could mean travel and bigger trips, but it also could mean trying new restaurants.
Because in my past relationship relationship experience i have been with guys who were more homebodies who which is fine but they didn't want to like go try new restaurants i was in a relationship for six years and my ex just wanted to literally go to restaurants pick it up and eat it at home and that's just not me so i was really looking for guys who wanted to do fun things locally and also of of course, like travel and had the money to do that, too. Obviously, that was important.
So that was a huge one. And the other one other big one for me was empathy.
So I think that's one on every woman's list should be on every human's list. Just a guy who could understand or at least acknowledge feelings.
Okay. As a concept.
And I'm curious. So some of these things, I assume you were sensing from him, but there sounds like there are others you had to pull out of him or ask him.
Yeah. So the one I remember on the third date was specifically, I wanted a guy, I really need someone who's ambitious, right? I think that's another one that a lot of women have.
And I just didn't hear him talk about his career that much.

And so I made sure on the third date to ask direct questions about his career growth and just like, what do you want to do with his life outside of his career?

And that gave me a lot of clarity.

I like that.

I tell some of my clients and just listeners of this podcast, I hear this from time to

time from men.

I hear, you know what? I'm just not, you know, I know i don't have i'm not a millionaire i don't make six figures and i say to them well okay you might not be super wealthy but can you share some ambition or do you have some ambition is that something you can cultivate because ambition regardless of how much money you actually make that's an attractive trait it's an important trait right ambition could even be like i want to build i want to learn how to build a couch i don't know like it could be something that isn't even like for monetary gain like it could just be like i want to learn this i want to learn language i want to master this instrument that to me is ambition as well um it's not just like i want to advance in my career absolutely yeah and it's good if that's coming out authentically, hopefully. It's coming out organically in a conversation.
And by the way, I earn more than every guy I dated. At the time, I owned a different business.
I had a completely different thing. And as a business owner, that was just the reality.
And I didn't really care about salary. think I cared more about competence right in financial is way more important than salary interesting just knowing that they're competent with money and about money yeah okay no this is great I think a lot of men get caught up in the the surface level things about well what do I say how do I keep the conversation going how do I not be? And those are all understandable things to make sure you have handled.
But the bigger, what I call the big life stuff, the big things that we need to be on the same page about that are basically like deal breakers in terms of things that meet your needs, or it could be things like children or no children, same religion or not. I mean, everybody's got their own blueprint.
So I tell them, hey, look, you can't you can't really really you can't you can control to an extent how well you flirt you can improve your conversation skills but in terms of like who you are that what you bring to the table uh it is what it is and there's ways to amplify it but you can't change that inherently or else you'd be be a fraud exactly yeah yeah and it's just sort of like well this is who i am this is my ambition hopefully or lack thereof which would be bad look he is i have more ambition than him but that's okay like i think when you are looking for a partner it's all on a spectrum it's like no one is going to be 100 what you're looking for in any category. Right.
So yeah, I knew that going in. Nice.
A couple more questions about the 64. Did you set out to do that or is that just the number it became? No, that was the number it became.
I was ready to be single for a long time. So I got out of the six year relationship.
Like I broke up with him. Like the day he started talking about rings, I was like, I cannot marry this guy.
I know this is wrong for me on many levels. And I wanted to try a different dating approach.
That was my goal. I learned a lot in therapy, and I have a completely different new view on who I need in my life.
So I set out to practice my skills and just keep going until I found what I was looking for and then stop, which happened. So I was ready to go on 100 more first dates.
I was ready to be single for a decade. I was ready.
You were that ready? Yes. I made a plan for my life as if I'd never met anyone.

That was kind of what I had to do.

And that security helped me have the confidence to just keep going until I met someone I liked enough to focus on them.

How did you keep from overthinking?

How did you keep things simple?

Did you struggle with that?

I didn't because I lowered the stakes.

Again, having that mentality of like, I might never meet someone. I might be single for the rest of my life.
What would the best version of that life look like? Then going into every date being like, I don't need this to work out because I already have this amazing plan for myself. I don't need.
And so when you take that, I need this to work out. I need a partner i'm so alone i'm so lonely blah blah like newsflash you can be lonely in a relationship too relationships don't solve everything like so i think that was where i just i just kind of cared less because and that helped me not overthink things and just have fun yeah yeah you were free from needing any given date or any given guy to be the one, right? And I don't know how it is for guys, but for women, there is that layer, like I said earlier, of the biological clock.
Like I want kids. We are planning to have kids.
Um, but I also was ready to not, right. I was ready to have a version of my life where I didn't meet anyone and didn't become a mom and cool.
Like that is just kind of, you can't control everything, you know? No, for men, it's obviously there's not the same biological deadline. But definitely men, whenever there's a birthday with a zero approaching, it's really a big thing for men.
And a lot of men think, oh, well, you know what? The big 4-0 is here. I guess I'm und undateable now or the big 5-0 or whatever the number is i thought 30 was going to be bad for me let alone 40 or beyond um no i think that for men i feel like in your early 40s it's like the prime time because you can you have like the the widest range of ages you could date at that point I think so.
Well, maybe you can talk to my guy listening to this. Oh my God, I'm too old.
I'm going to be 40 soon. I can't date.
Okay, listen to me. You are a listener to this amazing podcast, How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell.
That means you are already scores above the average guy out there in the dating world.

If you're in your 40s and you're listening to content like this and you're following

what Connell says, you are in amazing shape.

Like there are so many women I talk to every day in the late 30s, early 40s range who are

like, where are all the men?

So you have every opportunity to stand out in this age range.

Thank you. This, the more you know.
Yeah. Thank you, Talia.
I think also, again, if you're listening and you just did this whole series about approaching in real life, every day I get a message where it's like, where are the men? So if you're listening to this, please follow Connell's advice and go out and practice it because women want you to do this. Exactly.
I told a story in a recent episode, this beautiful, I mean, beautiful person. 15 years ago, nervous, handshaking Connell walked up with cotton in my mouth and chatted her up in a Whole Foods in the cereal section.
And said after she gave me after she gave me her number like a pep talk she was kind of like you she's like a coach and she said it's okay you know what you can come talk to us we like it yeah it was like oh my god i feel like you're talking to all men listen even as a married person even when i'm in a relationship men still approach me and i always am extremely like i'm trying to be nice kind approachable because i want to encourage more of it even though i'm taken like i'm not going to shut people down i'm still making eye contact being approachable because i think if a guy comes up to me and has a pleasant interaction even though i'm in a relationship hopefully they'll continue to do that until they meet someone yeah guys are so and i i'm not i'm I I'm not judging them because I had every problem there was in the world to have pretty much for a shy, nerdy guy. But I remember thinking, I don't want to bother women.
I don't want to be that creep. I don't want to be a burden.
But what I learned is actually, you're probably going to be creepier if you just stare at her and don't do anything. Yeah.
Yeah. Either stay away entirely or go take a chance.
My girlfriend, Jess, every so often she'll tell me about a guy who chats her up on the subway and she does it through the lens of keep up the good work. I have a boyfriend.
I'm in a relationship, but keep up the good work. And she's very friendly.
So you can be really nice and say, hey, thanks, but no thanks, but you made my day.

Yeah.

I also don't think that if you learn a woman you're talking to has a partner, that's the easiest kind of rejection there is.

It has nothing to do with you.

Right.

You're not supposed to know.

You're not supposed to automatically know who's in a relationship.

Obviously, yes, I'm wearing a ring.

And I've been chatted up even with the ring on. They just don't notice it's fine it's it's okay you're not supposed to know um who has who is a boyfriend or whatever or a girlfriend yeah yeah let me ask you about this because i'm just thinking through the lens of what do guys really struggle with and you you're i think you're a great person to address this nice guys do women want nice guys do women not want nice guys do they want guys who are nice but not too nice how do you address the whole nice topic we need to stop talking about nice we want kind there is a difference between nice and kind nice is surface level people pleasing you're probably going to say things you don't mean nice is saying i would love to see you again at the end of a date when you don't mean it or you don't know that's nice we don't want that we want kind which is more considerate thoughtful has more integrity and maybe you're not going to say i had a nice i had a great time let's do it again if you don't mean it that's the kind thing to do yeah yeah there's a poll done by it's a health app called clue and it's about five or six years old but i still send it to my clients to this day 64 000 women were were surveyed and the number one thing they most wanted in a male partner was kindness.
Yeah. Like, wasn't I? Yeah.
I tell people, if you don't, if your partner isn't kind, you need to break up with them. That is not, you can't have a healthy relationship with someone who isn't kind.
And look, my husband, like, he is not, I would not describe him as nice. He is kind.
He's extremely generous with the people in his life. But sometimes he is pretty sharp.
And that's okay. Well, that's the edge.
The realness that can be really human. He criticized me on our second date and I was shocked.
He what? He criticized me on our second date. Well, okay, not me.
But I had this other other business i mentioned and i was showing him the web app that we had built for this business and when i handed people when i usually want to hand people the phone to show them my nothing they're like oh wow this is great no right away he's like pointing out every little imperfection in the web app that i of course know is there and i yanked my phone back and i was like what the hell man so that's an example of like he wasn't negging me he wasn't like trying to rile me up or anything he did but like he was just being honest and yeah just being really real and genuine is gonna fix most of those little problems that like oh i'm too nice well because you're being fake yeah exactly nice is fake and we and i don't think anyone wants i don't think the guys listening want that from the women they're dating either and then there's the overcorrection oh i'll just be some alpha fake pickup type dude which is a terrible overcorrection yeah yeah and i told this story yesterday but yours this will run before i think the other one airs i once approached a woman in miami and i just in a really good mood. I was feeling really friendly and kind and just happy.
And I walked up and I said, you know what I'm going to say? I'm just going to say exactly what I'm feeling in the moment. And I walked up and said, hey, excuse me.
I just saw you. I'm in a really good mood.
I just want to share it with somebody. How's your day going? And her eyes lit up like she won the lottery.
Yeah, it was incredible. She she's beautiful and then because i was there taking a pickup artist seminar i got into my head not in my head i went into my head and i thought okay i hooked her now i'll do my 17 pickup judo moves neg statement of interest pull back this that oh no and i'm watching this all having like an out-of-body experience as i'm doing all this recited pua bullshit and i'm seeing her her go from lit up to to what's going on here i could just see her losing absolute not just attraction for me just social interest and she said after 90 seconds of me talking at her, I just, she said, well, it was nice meeting you.
And she walked away. And that was like an incredibly painful, powerful lesson.
Did you go back to the seminar? Did you learn your lesson? I totally learned the lesson. I absolutely learned the lesson, which is that you can over think, over plan the whole concept of what I say and saying the perfect thing and game it's just it still messes up so many so many men I think when I talk to people women and men about uh interacting in real life it's like start on a friendship level start with kindness and politeness and then you can read the room and see where it goes but like I think everyone just wants to be treated like humans like people you know yeah what a concept treat people treat people like like people um what about so we talked oh let's let me ask you about approaching sure what is your view what do women think about it in general about a guy who comes up is there is some women just going to shut it down right away because they've had bad experiences, are some women open to it I assume it depends on the woman, right? I've done polls on this on my Instagram, which by the way is 80% women and I think every time I poll it's like a landslide women want to be approached in public but they obviously want men to it in in a self-aware way like like you said earlier it's like not staring uh not negging right like you know it's like walking up like a just a human being you know um and you you mentioned so many different ways in previous episodes you've done about oh like just random things you've opened a conversation with based on what the environment is.

But yeah, I do think women want people to approach.

I get approached in the gym,

and the gym is such a controversial place, I think.

But I really think more approaching should happen in the gym.

It starts with eye contact.

If someone is not making eye contact with you,

they don't want to talk to you when it's really that simple.

If they're making eye contact with you several times

or even giving you a smile or a head nod or something they're open to be talking to i think right that's great tip so that's where you want to look for those those subtle indicators of uh some interest at least social interest if you can't catch their eye don't they're just off the table because it's a gym and it's a bit of a more of a and and anywhere i think yeah if you can't make the eye contact they don't want to be talked to you that day that's it okay yeah and if you do make the eye contact then what do you advise men that's that's that's a great that's a green light i would say if you do it a few times um i think a few not too many times but i think two or three times is good and then you can just like you you say in your podcast all the time like you can walk up and introduce yourself it could be that simple what are you drinking what are you reading what brings you here today what are you working on like just that question you know oh i like i saw your jacket all those simple things very very simple yeah and i do all the time and i am also encouraging women to approach

men too by the way so i'm really yes oh my gosh tell me about this out okay they're missing out tell me if i woke if we woke up tomorrow like in a twilight zone episode and it was up to women to approach men what would that world be like what would happen um i think i think a lot more people will be in relationships right now yeah i really do because i think that the modern relationship is more reciprocal it's less of the guy leading i i just feel like in like in your relationship you're not keeping score of who's texting first and who's initiating plans why don't we just start that way yeah you know like why are we overthinking i was just talking to a woman in my d first and who's initiating plans. Why don't we just start that way? Yeah.
You know, like, why are we overthinking? I was just talking to a woman in my DMs and she's dating a doctor and she was like, oh, we had plans, but he stayed late at the hospital. I don't want, he, I texted last.
I don't want to text him again. I'm like, girl, if this is how you're starting their relation, like your dating experience, how is it going to be in a relationship? If you're keeping score, you're focused on the wrong thing.
So I always tell women like, also another reason to approach men is because they don't ever get approached. That's so rare.
And you're going to have, you could be the most awkward, you could be so awkward and it will still work because they're just so happy to be approached. I still remember.
Yes. Oh my God.
You will. I'm confirming.
Am I right? Yes. If any women listening, you will make my year if you just compliment my jacket.
And I'm really trying to help women understand this. Yeah.
We love it, ladies. Oh, my God.
We love it so much. I still remember I was on the subway 10 plus years ago, and I was with my nephew and niece, of all people.
They were visiting me from Ohio here in New York, and they were visiting me. When my nephews and nieces turned 16, I brought them to New York and gave them a fun uncle.
Cute. Oh, my God.
Broadway. I did that with my uncle.
So cute. Yeah.
I'm the fun uncle. And I remember we were on the subway, and a very attractive woman started to chat with me and I remember what she said the conductors is back when there were actual humans speaking over the over the um the speaker system not recordings and the conductor had some kind of exotic accent and she looked at me and smiled and she said something like oh wow did you hear his accent I think it's And it was so wonderfully random that I realized, oh, she's just trying to find a reason to talk to me.
And she smiled, and it was a nice, present conversation. I had a girlfriend at the time, so it didn't go anywhere.
But I was walking around for hours, especially because my nephew saw Cool Uncle Connell. He's like, wow, girls go up to you all the time, right? I'm like, no,'m like no once every five years yeah yeah i don't know um i'm all about it i think i also took that same approach on hinge right i pretty much only went out with men i message first because i am the i want to be the chooser i don't want to be chosen i wasn't trying to be chosen a lot of women are okay i would be speaking of hinge i'd be remiss if i didn't ask you a couple dating app questions before we we wind up and you met your now husband on hinge you said right yeah and you matched obviously and who messaged whom first i messaged him first he said his his profile was pretty boring and basic it It was filled out properly, fully.

And he looked normal.

That's what I was looking for.

I'm like, you look normal and you put effort into your profile.

It doesn't have to be witty.

And it was the most dry profile, but he's really funny.

So he said he liked audiobooks.

I was like, what are you listening to right now?

And we talked about audiobooks for a while.

I was in Hawaii when I messaged him.

So he talked about me being in Hawaii.

And then I kept being like, so what are we meeting for coffee? You're like, I will do that. Because I'm like, I'm not going to message you for weeks.
So if he asked me a question, I would be like, OK, let's talk about that over coffee. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge.
Let's get the plan going. And I had to do that like three times because he was stalling because he wasn't in Seattle yet.
And then he landed on the video date thing. So, yeah.
Great. Well, he finally got the hand.
It took him long enough. Yeah.
Yeah. So he took him a few times.
He was like, let me get your number. We'll go from there.
So that's how a lot of my conversations went i would message first see if they could have a normal conversation without making any lewd comments being rude being weird you know it's like can you just have a normal back and forth without making it weird and if i wanted to yeah go ahead oh sorry i could finish your thought if i wanted to if i if they if they passed that test i would say like hey let's meet and i have no problem i always tell women like stop waiting for the guy just like be like hey let's meet it's just yeah it's just more efficient i think it's just like who has the time to wait for every guy to be like let's go on a date if you want a date just go for it preach it i went to stockholm once as a then student of these pickup dudes one of the better

ones you want a date just go for it preach it i went to stockholm once as a then student of these pickup dudes one of the better ones one of the more more uh gentlemanly if you want to call him that and i was blown away by how women in sweden are just really progressive and take charge and this woman was like hey do you want to go back to my place have a drink i was like, my God, could you please come to America and teach women to do the same thing? I loved it. Yeah.
So anyway, I love when a woman does that. Still, I want guys to lead that dance or at least be ready to.
Yes, it's both. I think both need to step up and step into that space.
And it's not like an either or. It is both.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you mentioned the W word. I hear that a lot.
Weird.

I don't want to be weird. I don't want to be a creep.
I don't want to be weird. What is your definition of weird? Let's, let's, let's talk about maybe messaging on, on a dating app like Hinge.
What's, what's your definition of weird when you hear? It's just any, really the biggest giveaway is anything. If they, you can give a physical compliment, but if it's anything sexual or anything about my body unclothed,

like that's just an immediate no. It's an immediate, okay, you're looking for a hookup, which, hey, no shame in that.
I'm just not looking for that, so bye. And you can look for a hookup in a way that doesn't involve her body parts right out of the gate.
I agree. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
And I did have hookups off the apps. That is totally fine.
No shame in that. No.
So I think also making it weird. I mean, one time a guy sent me a Spotify playlist in Hinge that, again, I was like, I really don't understand.
Is this like a joke? It was just a weird playlist. It could have worked if it was like, here are some of my favorite songs right now.
Cool. We could talk about that.
But that was weird. just we just want normal we just want like a normal let's just talk about and i always tell women like you're making small talk just see just have a couple back and forth messages it doesn't need to be more than like five to ten messages back and forth before you move to a date yeah and you can kind of vibe well not it's not even a vibe in your case they're very clear indicators clear indicators that you wanted something to happen.
Like, let's talk about this over coffee. One of my very first crushes back when I first was intentionally working on my dating life, she would say things like, oh, you're out of town for the weekend.
I guess we won't be able to get that drink until next week. Ask me out, dude.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly i mean yeah i think that's a big frustration i hear from women is like they're not asking me out they're not asking me out so i just i can't control what they're doing i'm talking to the woman in this scenario so i'm like okay say that you want to meet that's all you can do in that moment yeah or you just wait forever and be frustrated so to de-weirdify a guy's hinge conversation or or his profile no sexual talk unless you're both just trust that it clearly it will get there i think some guys are like well what if she's not into sex what it's like just trust that it'll get there you need to make her feel safe and comfortable first you need to be trust first that's the first step is just show that you're a safe trustworthy person because there are so many creeps out there people with bad intentions yeah every woman you've talked to every single one i can guarantee has had a bad experience with a guy so they're on guard and that's unfortunate so that's what you need to remember when you're talking to any woman like yeah yeah so de-sexualize your conversation at least early until they're until it organically builds to that if it does. There's nothing wrong with just sticking to the basics of what's on their profile, what's in your profile, what's in her photos.
Does she have a cool photo where she's standing on a cliff on a hike or with a horse? I don't know. Just ask about the pictures.
Stay away from what are you doing this weekend? How's your week? Those are boring. You don't want those either.

No one wants to talk about that.

Focus on just the thing.

Find a couple of things you can connect on.

Like, okay, cool.

We have two things in common.

That's enough.

Let's go to the date.

Boom.

Exactly.

Five, ten messages max.

Let's move forward.

Yeah.

And if you ask and she needs a little more time, that's fine.

At least you're showing that interest or showing that intentionality.

Yeah, I have.

Yeah, some people. And I always tell women, it's on an immediate red flag if they ask for the date like in the first message you can just say like let's chat a little bit more here or let's have a phone call and then we'll see about the date like that's fine yeah do you i'm putting you on the spot a little bit but do you remember do you rememberittiest, or maybe not the wittiest, but a really good creative opener from Hinge that just got your attention back when you were on your 64 dates or other times? I don't, but I can share a dumb line that worked on me for a hookup.
Even better. Go on.
And I don't know if this will work on other women, but it worked on me. So I was talking to this guy from Tinder and he was very attractive and he was like, I think we made out in a bar one time in the Lower East Side.
And he already learned that I was from New York. And I'm like, that could have happened in my head.
Like that definitely could have happened. I used to go out in the Lower East Side okay who did it and I was like I don't know and that totally worked on me was this his opener or was this in the conversation no it was like a little bit more in the conversation nice but I was like did we it was definitely a line but like yeah you know what it was I was definitely and I think some women are going to be in the mood to have that kind of conversation and some won't be and that's okay.
He probably, you know, whatever. What is your definition of a good online dating opener? Let's say a guy matches with you or a single woman on hinge and it's he's going to take that first swing.
Any any quick tip there for our guys? I really think it's about the profile. Show us you've read it and show us you have read the things we wrote, not just the pictures.
Be like, oh, you mentioned you love horror movies. Have you seen, did you see the new Nosferatu? Like, I don't know.
Whatever. So that's, I think, the winner.
Don't say, hey, cutie. Don't say, hey, beautiful.
I think you can use the name. Like, hey, Charlotte, whatever.
Everybody loves your name. The names is fine.
but like don't say hey cutie don't say hey beautiful um i think you can use the name like hey charlotte whatever um everybody loves your name the names is fine but like don't come in with a hey beautiful it's like and also the more specific you make it like women are getting women are getting copy pasted first messages yeah so just if you it needs to be specific so make sure you read it back to make it be like okay is this specific to her profile or could i have sent this to anyone? If you could have sent it to anyone, that's a no-go. Great tip.
I think just having a really good profile makes your opener work so much better than if I tell my guys, it gets so hung up on, oh, the perfect opener, witty, perfect, everything. And I want it to be as good as reasonable, but I don't want it to sound like an opener.
I want it to sound just like a nice, simple conversation starter. But what I i want it to be as good as reasonable but i don't want it to sound like an opener i want it to sound just like a nice simple conversation starter but what i think is going to make it work is oh the overall profile of this gentleman fits within reason what what you what she might be looking for right and yeah you can't you can't take like you're saying earlier you can't tailor your profile to what someone else wants i think you've got to tell your tell your for the person you're trying to attract.
And what you also like, my view on profiles is that they're a conversation starter. They're not supposed to encapsulate your entire personality.
You can't. So pick three things that you enjoy talking about that you care about.
And hopefully you'll attract people who care about those things too, or have opinions on them. Okay.
I'm going to make up some final fun questions for you i'm ready there aren't even dating advice i'm just gonna be stupid okay if you were single who is the male famous person you would love to be right swiping on you and messaging you oh my god living dead anybody it could be winston churchill stanley stanley teaching okay why why he's got it all he's attractive and he's a foodie i mean he's traveled he's classy i think he also has like a bunch of content about going down on women um really stanley titchie does okay yeah i think so or there's some kind of meme about that so that's what that's what came to mind that you know so he'd be a good lover probably um yeah so that's the first person that came to mind i like it what what famous deceased person would you love to have right swipe on you if they were let's say they were alive for me i'm like who's dead yeah who's dead who's dead and hot that's the question who's hot and dead i'm gonna pass i really can't think of anyone that i would really want i it's like i don't i'm not a rock star person like i wouldn't want to date a rock star you know what i mean like those those are the people that come to mind who are dead and like attractive. And like, I wouldn't actually want to, I'm not a party girl.
Like I am more like Austin. I'll adjust the question answer to make it easier on me.
I'm going to go Stevie Nicks, Fleetwood Mac, like in the prime. I like the whole witchy woman vibe she had.
Yes. I'm into it.
Let's play swipe right, swipe i did this with the uh the guy who um invented right swiping uh and it was fun he he swiped right on mini mouse i thought that was fascinating um okay this is just things you like swiping right or left on baking shows right okay like i'm into it i mean british baking the great british baking show is such a fun easy background watch i'm into it yeah okay what about you oh yeah swipe right big time um crime scene kitchen is my favorite show with joel mckale fun also pause here my computer is very low on battery so we should open up soon okay cool because i couldn't plug it in with this and I don't want to like kill it. Cool we'll finish up right now.
Anyway Talia this has been fantastic. I want to make sure that you give my audience a chance to find out how they can learn more about you.
Where should they follow you other than your podcast? Where can my guy get more info and some insight from you? Yes you are welcome to slide into my DMs anytime at dating.intentionally on Instagram. Fantastic.
And please check out her podcast. It's really good.
And I'm going to check out your Instagram as well, which I haven't had a chance to yet. I can talk to you on my podcast soon.
Yeah, I can't wait. We're going to swap.
I want to grill you. Please do.
Be ready. No, it'll be my pleasure.
I can't wait. I can't.
We're going to swap. I want to grill you.
Please do.

Be ready. Please do.
No, it'll be my pleasure. I can't wait to talk to you.
And thank you for

joining me. And thank you for listening.
There are only 9 million podcasts out there. And you

listen to mine for like an hour. Thank you.
That was amazing. Don't forget, your dream girlfriend

is out there. She just has to meet the real you, the authentic you.
So go out there and take action. Carpe datum.
Until next time.