3 Hidden Reasons Why Women Lose Interest in You—and How to Keep Them Attracted Long-Term! with Johnny Cassell

Speaker 1 you're displaying yourself as this wild, untameable sort of tiger, and you get softer and softer and softer until you turn into like a tubby domestic house cat. And that's when you lose attraction.

Speaker 2 Welcome back to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I am your host, dating coach, Connell Barrett.

Speaker 2 I am here to help you flirt with confidence, get more dates, and get a fantastic girlfriend, and do it with authenticity. No toxic manipulation, BS, none of that.

Speaker 2 And today I want to talk about maybe not just how to get a great girlfriend, but how to have a great relationship with yourself, which is going to help you attract a great girlfriend.

Speaker 2 And we're going to talk about that and other things with my guest today. His name is Johnny Cassell.
Johnny is a London-based dating and lifestyle strategist.

Speaker 2 He's also a student of human behavior, and he specializes in confidence and relationship building. He's got over a decade of experience working with high

Speaker 2 net worth clients of all shapes and sizes in the London area. And he's a big expert in the world of dating and personal development.
He's also the author of a book called Elite Seduction.

Speaker 2 And you might have seen him in the Sunday Times, Sky News, BBC Radio, if you're familiar with life over on the other side of the pond. And he's also on Instagram and YouTube.

Speaker 2 And you can learn more about Johnny at johnnycassell.com. That's c-a-s-s-e-l-l.com.
Johnny, welcome to the How to Get a Girlfriend podcast.

Speaker 2 I charge hourly and I'm very expensive, but I'm open to it. Yeah, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2 I'm always psyched to talk to another male expert because there's a lot of things we have in common and there's probably going to be some fun things that we differ on or just have complimentary views on.

Speaker 2 So Johnny, I want to start by asking you something we were talking about before we started recording, which is the idea of making sure that a single guy first has a good relationship with himself before he finds the right girlfriend, the right woman to have for his partner in a relationship.

Speaker 2 Can you elaborate on that? Why is it important to first be good with you before you attract a girlfriend?

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, I think it's completely unreasonable to be asking for the best of someone else if we haven't got to the best place for ourselves. So

Speaker 1 what does that mean?

Speaker 1 I mean if we've if we're in a bit of a hiatus right now we've come out of a long-term relationship we may have lost parts of ourselves that gave us joy right we dedicated our whole life to the relationship if there's kids involved you know there's that too work you know has took its toll on us we forgot about the things that give us joy so A great hack would be to think, okay, what are those things that actually lift me up, make me feel good, give me that euphoric moment in my life?

Speaker 1 Whether it be music, sports, hanging out with friends, it could be simply just sitting down watching a film that used to watch for nostalgia.

Speaker 1 Whatever those things are, take the time to reconnect with them. I mean, the other day, you know, I went out for a walk by myself.
Right?

Speaker 1 And I think there's a lot to be said on actually taking the time to take yourself out on a date.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 There's a lot of peace that comes with that especially if you live a busy lifestyle so

Speaker 1 we all know the work that we need to do as well a lot of us just kind of put it off um there was a there's a great post fight talk that i saw from conor mcgregor when he was you know having a lot of his fights and um

Speaker 1 it was one of the fights that he lost and you know you know what he's like you know he plays the role he plays the character you know he's a cocky arrogant guy uh it sells tickets right

Speaker 1 and he he said his his quote was

Speaker 1 yeah we all know what the work is we need to do we just need to get on and do it and he himself said you know i didn't put the work in and i let myself down i let my team down i let everyone around i let the fans down so

Speaker 1 Take stock of where you are and work out what those things are to be the 2.0 version of yourself.

Speaker 2 I love that idea. Taking yourself out for a date.

Speaker 2 Finally, a date I know that won't end in the friend zone for me.

Speaker 1 A solo. Impossible, right?

Speaker 1 I know I'm going to get lucky.

Speaker 2 I know it.

Speaker 2 Talk a little, that's a fascinating concept. Why does that help a man with the women he meets? Is it that women can sense a guy who just feels good about himself?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean,

Speaker 1 you know, there's a lot that comes from it. I mean, if I was to think about that day where I took myself out for a walk, you know, I'm being more observational.

Speaker 1 I'm enjoying the small things like grabbing a coffee, walking through the markets, having a bit of a back and forth with the shopkeepers, maybe the charity workers, or the people at the food stall, just seeing if I can find opportunities to have humor between individuals.

Speaker 1 And I'm just having a good time by myself. And I think

Speaker 1 if we look at our interactions and you have this problem of seeking for approval,

Speaker 1 then this is a good exercise for you because it proves to yourself that you can go out and just have a good time.

Speaker 1 You're amusing yourself and inviting other people into that amusement. That's attractive.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 one of my very first coaches helped me approach women, get really good at quote-unquote old school pickup.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 I remember he used to always talk about, you want to amuse yourself. You got to draw your positive state from inside of you.

Speaker 2 Because if a woman feels like you're relying on her to make you happy, that can be repellent to women, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. Absolutely.
We've got to be the value adder.

Speaker 1 We've always got to be looking at ways to add value, whether it's our energy,

Speaker 1 like where we are,

Speaker 1 on the hierarchy in our careers, in life.

Speaker 2 To me, that's the essence of masculinity, or one of the essences of masculinity, is giving. And in fact, I saw a video you did right before we hopped on.

Speaker 2 I was doing a little research because I try to be prepped. And you did a video, it ran somewhere on YouTube, where you said the masculine is about giving and the feminine is about receiving.

Speaker 2 That's nature. And what I'm hearing you say, and feel free to elaborate, correct me if I'm wrong, is the masculine is giving.
And that's a very generous place to come from, right?

Speaker 1 It is, it is.

Speaker 1 And of course, like, if we are doing all those things, you know, like going out,

Speaker 1 making the money you know taking care of the home you know taking make

Speaker 1 doing as much as we can so she doesn't have to adopt masculine traits then you are going to experience a woman that is truly in her feminine the

Speaker 1 the more strain you have on yourself and then you you kind of have to co-operate the household then she's going to adapt more masculine traits. So it's just this, I mean that obviously exists, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it's a polarity in all of us that we have, you know, the masculine and the feminine. But if you truly want a woman to be completely in effeminine, then you have to adopt the masculine traits.

Speaker 2 How does a man convey those traits in a way that is

Speaker 2 authentic, genuine to who he is, at the same time

Speaker 2 good quote-unquote strategy that women notice?

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 one thing we can all do, right, is it's a simple little task.

Speaker 1 When you next go to a restaurant, it's

Speaker 1 taking the leadership of maybe ordering the food, right? Like, ask, would you mind

Speaker 1 if I

Speaker 1 have a few suggestions? Would you mind if I do the order? Cool.

Speaker 1 That's attractive. She's being led.

Speaker 1 You're leading her to the experience. When it comes to dates, we know this, we have this on day one, right? When we meet a woman, we get a number.

Speaker 1 We want to prove to them them that we're the man, right? So you're saying, look, okay, meet me next Wednesday, eight o'clock at this restaurant.

Speaker 1 So straight away, she's like, okay, this guy's, you know, he's taking care of things, that's attractive, that's that's cool, he's got it.

Speaker 1 But then what slowly seems to happen is, you know, we get softer and softer and softer in the relationship.

Speaker 1 So it's like you're displaying yourself as this wild, untameable sort of tiger, and you get softer and softer and softer until you turn into like a tubby domestic house cat.

Speaker 1 And that's when you lose attraction. It happens to the best of us, man.
Like, it happens to the best, because

Speaker 1 things are nice, right? Things are nice, things are good, things are going well.

Speaker 1 I don't necessarily need to go out and be the planner.

Speaker 1 Once you got the girl,

Speaker 1 the game doesn't stop, it's just a different game.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you start off as a lion, you end up Garfield.

Speaker 1 Exactly. And you wonder why

Speaker 2 she's losing interest.

Speaker 1 It's true. I got a client and

Speaker 1 he had a bit of a hiatus

Speaker 1 coming out of a relationship. And then I picked him back up and

Speaker 1 we literally just had one session. I gave him some suggestions and he went onto the social activity, met a girl.
And he was just getting back into his fitness, right?

Speaker 1 Because he wanted to be, you know, more masculine looking. He wanted to look more attractive

Speaker 1 and i'm keeping my eye on this relationship and i'm starting to see garfield sort of make rear his head out a little bit again you know so it's like come on guys how does garfield come out for him

Speaker 1 well it's obviously you know just being a bit sloppy with the diet being a bit sloppy with you know working working out um lasagna

Speaker 1 yes yes like get a bit too comfortable at home right

Speaker 1 forgetting about the things that made you attractive in the first place right and and also as well which i think is a is a big attraction killer is not having your own life right so we we have we've we got back in touch with ourselves whilst we're single we got the relationship and then we ditch that part of ourselves again

Speaker 1 right so again it goes back to the first point about reconnecting with the the person that you were you lost touch of keep it yeah keep it there because the only source of joy if the only source of joy is coming from your relationship you're doomed You really are, because all it takes is one hiccup there, one argument, and it feels like your whole world's fallen apart.

Speaker 1 But if you've got solace in community and activities, events, you know, you've got access to these things, then

Speaker 1 it's going to feel less hard on you.

Speaker 2 I just had a bit of a flashback to something that happened to me, man.

Speaker 2 20 years ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think you just helped me have a breakthrough.

Speaker 1 Oh, really?

Speaker 2 I realized now. So when I first started working on my dating life, it was 2005.
That was when I actively said, Connell, you suck at dating. You got to get good at this.

Speaker 2 And one of the first incredible women I connected with, her name is Lorraine, badass amazing woman. She's a doctor now.
And when we met, I was this amazing planner. I was Mr.
Lion, Mr.

Speaker 2 Tiger, because I'd kind of read that's what you need to be, but it wasn't really inside of me yet. Three or four months later, she ended it.
Essentially, I'd become Garfield.

Speaker 2 And I realized, you know what, I just wasn't quite enough man for her at that time. So you're just blowing my mind here.
I realized no one.

Speaker 2 I was doing an impression of that tiger, that lion, but really I was still Garfield. And she said, I need a lion.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But we need to feel the pain, you know, in order to us to

Speaker 1 make the change and for it to really be embedded inside us as a...

Speaker 1 a solid lesson.

Speaker 2 You mean we have to understand the problem and feel it before we can make that change?

Speaker 1 Yeah, a lot of us do. I mean, you know, it's like you're at school and it's like, you know, you've got the Bunsen burner burning.

Speaker 1 You know, you know not to put your hand on the Bunsen burner, but you know there's that daft kid that is going to put his hand on the Bunsen burning, ow, what'd you do that for?

Speaker 1 It's like,

Speaker 1 like, but he's not going to do that again. He's not going to do that again.
You know, when I was younger, we had like a rescue dog. And never got on of this dog.
Hated all of my friends.

Speaker 1 You know, my friends used to have to come and, like, my mum used to have to hold the dog back, and they used to run up the stairs and like secretly try to get in my room without the dog seeing.

Speaker 1 It was vicious. And,

Speaker 1 you know, I was young, I was naive, and I was squirting this dog with a water pistol. Right? My dad goes, Don't do that, it's going to bite you.
It's going to bite you.

Speaker 1 Carol's squirt and squirting and squirting.

Speaker 1 My hands in the dog's mouth. I never did it again.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 it's that, isn't it? You know,

Speaker 1 even like you and I, you know, we're in

Speaker 1 a position where we can help many. And,

Speaker 1 you know, sometimes we don't listen to our own lessons, you know, our own teachings.

Speaker 2 Well, success feels good. Results feel great, but they're not necessarily the best teachers.
Sometimes you need to burn your hand on the bunting burner to say never again.

Speaker 2 Or learn, or as Lorraine basically said to me in so many words, you're not enough man for me, Connell. Come back to me in a couple years, maybe.

Speaker 1 It's hard, isn't it?

Speaker 1 I also had a friend that

Speaker 1 he was such a charmer.

Speaker 1 He had landed this beautiful model Russian blonde girlfriend. And

Speaker 1 they had a few years between them. And then one day

Speaker 1 she just turned around and she goes, you know what? It's not going to work between you and I. And he's like, what where's this all come from? He goes,

Speaker 1 you have no assets.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 how are you able to look after us

Speaker 1 if there becomes a problem between us?

Speaker 1 You know, that

Speaker 1 when I heard that story, I was like, wow, I mean, that's hard, but that's a very good lesson. Right? And I remember

Speaker 1 just on the same sort of realm of that,

Speaker 1 I remember being at a pre-BAFTA party. here in London.
This was quite a, it's like going back 10 years ago. And

Speaker 1 it was the who's who of the scene. I mean, I knew a few actors there, but I didn't know all the big wigs, the directors and producers, all this stuff.

Speaker 1 And I was at the bar and I was chatting to this bit of an older lady and had been in that scene for a while. And

Speaker 1 we got talking about how much money a man should make.

Speaker 1 And she goes, well, you know, I tried dating a guy that was earning

Speaker 1 under a hundred grand before. It didn't really work.

Speaker 1 And I was just like, Whoa, I was a young guy at the time, you know, I was like,

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, a hundred grand is quite a lot of money for me, you know, as quite a lot of money, but

Speaker 1 it was an eye-opener back then because she had a point. You know, if someone's, I think a lot of us haven't thought about the money,

Speaker 1 you know, we learned that this whole all the dating stuff, like how to, how to get how to attract a woman, how to be more charismatic, have the right mindset.

Speaker 1 But we haven't looked at about getting our money right

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 what happens is you you can build yourself to be the most charismatic charming guy you know have speak like James Bond and the rest of it

Speaker 1 but if you haven't worked on the core stuff you're just a placeholder for someone else when they come along just like my friend right as he was called out by his girlfriend and just like this woman rightfully said i mean a hundred grand a year it's a lot of money in some districts but depending on where you are, it's probably treble that that you need to make because you're thinking about, well, that's my money, you know.

Speaker 1 I need another hundred to maybe retire my partner, you know, or if you know, looking after the parents, whatever, and investments and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 So, I guess, you know, for the when I'm not working with the guys that have already got that stuff sorted out, that's that's also another conversation I'm having with guys, just to make them aware of that kind of things, because otherwise you're just a short-term hold.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 On the topic of money and status,

Speaker 2 one thing I noticed early on in my figuring all, figuring out success with women in my journey was how women notice our behaviors, big, small, nuanced, the way we talk to the bartender, the way we talk to the waiter, all the little sub-communications that come out.

Speaker 2 I just noticed that, I noticed that women noticed. And I made a mental note early on to not always be on.

Speaker 2 I didn't want to get in my head about it, but to just always be aware that, hey, a woman's going to always be noticing how we're behaving, especially in those first few dates, few interactions when she's taking you in.

Speaker 2 And that can convey your sense of confidence, your sense of status, or lack thereof. What's your take on that? Do you agree? Do you disagree?

Speaker 2 What have you noticed in your dating?

Speaker 1 coaching and your dating past absolutely i mean

Speaker 1 i think essentially in communication we're looking to break the expected pattern. When you go out,

Speaker 1 there is an obvious cliche pattern that exists socially, right?

Speaker 1 It's what do you do, where are you from, how old are you? You know, that kind of, like the yawn zone, I call that. Like, come on, man, we can do better than that.

Speaker 1 You know, if we've said to ourselves, I am getting better at this area. I want to improve my communication, you are not going out saying that stuff.
We can do better.

Speaker 1 Okay, if you're bored of hearing yourself say the same thing, the chances are that will then be transmitted.

Speaker 1 It'll be received in that way. No matter what you say.

Speaker 2 You're bored, she's going to be bored.

Speaker 1 Right, exactly. So it's

Speaker 1 we've we've got to get back to the self-amusement, right? I mean, I found myself the other day speaking to a new set of girls, and I was like, hi, are you enjoying the party? Yes, yes, cool.

Speaker 1 I go, oh my god, I'm looking after a cat at the moment. Like, what?

Speaker 1 Like, yeah, I got this, this, I've just been dumped this bloody cat I go well yeah I started getting the pictures out show the videos she I go

Speaker 1 oh what's his name I go bastard

Speaker 1 what goes name bastard I go what do you mean it's called bastard well I go it's called Dee Dee but it's called bastard because he's a he's a bastard like he's running around like he's a he's a jungle cat you know like he's hissing he's clawing me I just want to hug the poor guy you know so

Speaker 1 That is an amazing experience for, you know, just meeting someone. They're going to remember that.
But I'm writing. Why does that work?

Speaker 2 Why did that work? If you could break that down for our listener.

Speaker 1 It works straight away because, like I said, you're breaking an expected pattern. Right?

Speaker 1 She's going to have interactions that lack imagination that whole evening or whatever that social playground is.

Speaker 1 And if you're the sixth guy... that says pretty much the same thing,

Speaker 1 it's just not enough to carry it over the line. You know, it's not enough to make impact.
So, in every social scenario, you've got to think: what's the pattern here I need to break?

Speaker 1 Like, this is one we can all relate to. Like,

Speaker 1 maybe we go to the Starbucks or Costa or whatever it is, and we order a coffee. Your goal is to get a free coffee, right?

Speaker 1 And you do that just by being just by choosing to put a smile on the server's face. Okay,

Speaker 1 you

Speaker 1 can just, you know, we've all got the ability to give give ourselves a silly name on that cup. You know, when she's like oh, what's your name? You put Spider-Man or Snoop Dogg or Silly Bollocks or

Speaker 1 whatever it is, and then she's going to shout that out, right?

Speaker 1 And then you've made her laugh, right? You've made others around you laugh, right? It's so easy to open up whoever's around you because you're the funny guy.

Speaker 1 I never do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do the opposite.

Speaker 2 I do the opposite. I need your coaching at Starbucks.
So

Speaker 1 here's what I fuck up.

Speaker 2 My name's Connell, and nobody gets it right. I get Colin and Connor, Carnell, which is my porn star name, a totally different identity.

Speaker 2 And when I go to Starbucks, when I go to Starbucks, I do the opposite of your good advice. I just, I give them my middle name, which is Timothy, because I just want them to get the order right.

Speaker 2 But you know what? Yeah. That's boring.
I'm going to be Spider-Man from now on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that comes from where? It comes from deciding that today I'm going to go out and I'm going to be playful.

Speaker 1 Or I'm going to go out and fuck with people. I saw a guy

Speaker 1 I saw a guy the other day and

Speaker 1 he was riding a penny farthum. You know like those Victorian big wheel front and like a small little frame and a small wheel on the back?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like 19th century.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did he wake up and think this is the plan today? Like that was his commute, you mean? I don't know. I don't think so.

Speaker 1 I thought, yeah, he goes, he's obviously just started his day and thought, you know what? I'm going to take the bike out today. And I'm going to ride it through a busy district.
That's the plan today.

Speaker 1 I mean, as ridiculous as that is, we've got to take something from that guy. You know, like, we've got to go out and think, you know, what's the plan of the day? How can I have a playful day?

Speaker 1 Because I think a lot of pressure is put on ourselves when you realize that, okay, everything does come from the cold approach. Everything comes from your next interaction,

Speaker 1 your next business opportunity, your next romantic partner, your next useful friendship.

Speaker 1 You've got to break patterns and it starts by you choosing to go out there and be playful and giving people a different experience.

Speaker 2 I love that. I can't agree more.

Speaker 2 You struggle with dating, right? Sure. You have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt.
The apps don't work for you. And sometimes women put you in the friend zone.

Speaker 2 It's frustrating. Hey, I struggled with dating too.
As an introvert and a total nerd, I didn't just live in the friend zone. I owned real estate there.

Speaker 2 But I escaped using the dating philosophy of radical authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love.

Speaker 2 It's what I wrote about in my best-selling book, Dating Sucks But You Don't. And radical authenticity is why Psychology Today called me the best dating coach in America.

Speaker 2 And now I want to personally help you attract your dream girlfriend. So go to datingtransformation.com and book a free call with me.

Speaker 2 On our call, I'll tell you how my one-on-one coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend. And you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and authenticity.
No creepy pickup tricks needed.

Speaker 2 So go to datingtransformation.com, book a free call today, and let my personalized coaching help you. get a great girlfriend.
So the love of my life

Speaker 2 of the 2010s, I dedicated my book to her. Her name is Alex.
Wow, that's cool. Here's how I approached her.

Speaker 2 I'm at a club in Vegas, and I'm thinking, I see this beautiful blonde sitting with her bored friends.

Speaker 1 They're all bored.

Speaker 2 And I just know every guy is coming up and either just hitting on her sloppily or giving her the, what did you call it, the yawn?

Speaker 1 What was it? The yawn zone. Yeah.
The yawn zone.

Speaker 2 And I said, okay, I'm going to try something more fun. And I've been taking improv classes.
And I've been doing all this character work.

Speaker 2 So I walk over to her, I unbutton my shirt down to my belly button, and I pretend to be like a Latin lover character. And I walk up and I say, hello, I am Armando.

Speaker 1 Sorry guys.

Speaker 2 And she just busts out laughing. It goes great.
She calls me Armando for the whole weekend, which we spend together. And she became one of the great loves of my life.
I'm grateful to convey.

Speaker 2 And I say that not to impress my listener. I'm just saying, you can have fun with this.
You can find fun, pattern-breaking ways to approach a woman or to talk with somebody at Starbucks.

Speaker 2 Just, like you say, break that pattern.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. And I think as well, it's something that I've done a lot with my guys:

Speaker 1 you know, it's just like if you imagine yourself back in that scenario there, you know, where you saw of our friends, there was something you told yourself, right?

Speaker 1 There was some self-talk that was going on, right?

Speaker 1 And a lot of the time, when you get back to that place, it may be something like,

Speaker 1 She's mine, right? Or, oh, I got to give it a go, right? I'm going to take my shot, right? Or it's on,

Speaker 1 and I think what's really helpful is just to come up with that little buzz phrase

Speaker 1 so we can

Speaker 1 press go on that every time we see an opportunity. Because if we don't have that positive reinforcement, we're gonna listen to the other side, which is, oh, you know, what's the point?

Speaker 1 She probably goes for this type of guy or that guy.

Speaker 1 you know, she's not gonna like you, and you'll listen to that,

Speaker 1 right? Rather than bring up Armando,

Speaker 2 right turn it over to Armando yeah

Speaker 2 she called me Armando for weeks so good

Speaker 2 take me into your coaching take me take us behind the curtain do you have any fun stories any great I love the story I love the anecdote you shared about your clients talking to women or you I should say you self-amusing yourself.

Speaker 2 Do you have any fun stories of you and your clients out in the field doing it or your clients out doing it?

Speaker 1 All the time. I mean, you know, we did a workshop

Speaker 1 last month and we got one coming up this week. But

Speaker 1 this guy,

Speaker 1 you know, I was speaking to him pre-a, he's part of my online community, but he's,

Speaker 1 he hadn't done, we hadn't worked together in person before.

Speaker 1 And I thought that

Speaker 1 he would need a lot of hand-holding because he was telling him it was, he was caught up in this dark inner game place where he wasn't filled with positivity.

Speaker 1 it looked like we'd be pushing through a lot of resistance

Speaker 1 but in actual fact like

Speaker 1 he smashed it he he really threw himself at it

Speaker 1 and this this isn't like wow but this is something that can be done which I think is often overlooked

Speaker 1 we did some daytime interactions some daytime approaching

Speaker 1 and he approached this girl

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 it went well I think he was surprised how well it was it was received she was receiving him

Speaker 1 and he I was sitting there watching it go down and just you're taking some notes on what was happening and he comes back and he relays back to me what was said and all this kind of stuff and I go great man you and you you got the number right

Speaker 1 he goes no

Speaker 1 I go okay all right well look I go and I see that she's still in the distance I go look

Speaker 1 you're gonna run back there and you're gonna you're going to get the number.

Speaker 1 I say, listen to me, nine times out of ten, she will give you the number.

Speaker 1 Think about it. It doesn't make sense that you just, you approached her, you had this amazing interaction and you left with nothing.
It's like, what?

Speaker 1 They've let the village idiot out for the day. You know, you just go around approaching people.
Like, no, she can't be left thinking that was what just happened.

Speaker 1 At least give her the reassurance of like, oh no, I was actually hitting on you. You know?

Speaker 1 So he went and did that and he was overjoyed. He got the number, and I think that really sort of gave him a breakthrough.

Speaker 1 And there was another

Speaker 1 guy really wanted to push it that day, and we out in the evening, we were doing some approaching. And you know, we've got comfortable approaching the groups,

Speaker 1 you know, single ladies, and all this kind of stuff. And he was like, give me a bit more of a challenge.
I go,

Speaker 1 all right, well, there's a guy there with two ladies. I mean, I wouldn't imagine he's sleeping with both of them.
You know, like,

Speaker 1 one's got to be available, surely, right? But we need to find out.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 I kind of gave him something to say to go and speak to the guy. And

Speaker 1 the guy turned around. He was like, oh, no, this is my girlfriend.
And

Speaker 1 this is my cousin.

Speaker 1 So it was, we didn't want to kind of like break up the family on that one. But

Speaker 1 I really gave the guy kudos for really pushing through.

Speaker 1 That's scary.

Speaker 2 It can be so scary to walk up when there's a dude there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it can be. It was definitely a breakthrough for me.
And it's an interesting one because

Speaker 1 I've also been in a position where I've been that guy, right? Where I've been the guy with a girlfriend of mine at the time and a few of her friends.

Speaker 1 And then the guy has seen an opportunity. So the guy's gone straight to one of the girls and approached her.

Speaker 1 Now, I've got no reason to have my backup about it, but I observed what I was feeling at the time. I was kind of pissed.
It was like,

Speaker 1 you know, you're not, yes, part of it being ego, absolutely, but it was like

Speaker 1 when you look at those dynamics, it's like a lion and it's pride,

Speaker 1 you know, and

Speaker 1 you can't just go and jump on one of the lionesses.

Speaker 1 You know, you've got to you've got to go and speak to the lion first, you know, you've got to kind of have a chat and see if it's a bit of free zebra going around or something like that.

Speaker 1 And then maybe, maybe he's going to let you know what the story is with the situation.

Speaker 2 Well, let me ask you this. This is a great topic.
I get this question a lot, so I'll ask you to answer it. I'd love to hear your take.

Speaker 2 A man's in a lounge, a bar, and he sees two or three attractive women, and there's at least one guy in the mix.

Speaker 2 Should he go approach? And if so, how should he do it? What are the social dynamics he needs to navigate? Any do's and don'ts there?

Speaker 1 Well, absolutely. I mean,

Speaker 1 the key thing we need to get to is

Speaker 1 what's the story, right? Like,

Speaker 1 your irrational thinking is thinking what I used to think was, you know, I'd look in and go, oh,

Speaker 1 he's sleeping of all of them.

Speaker 1 You know, like, what? What? Like, where's that come from? It's just nonsense. So I don't have to do it.
Right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So. Coming up with a reason to get out of doing something I want to do.

Speaker 1 Yes. So whenever.

Speaker 2 But that's uncomfortable to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But whenever we find ourselves in that place of reaching for an excuse, it's to take note of that and go, okay, well, let's go find out.

Speaker 1 So your excuse actually is your opener. You know, it could be like, you know, dude, I had to come over because part of me was figuring out you were sleeping with all of them.
It's Johnny, by the way.

Speaker 1 You know, so your excuse is your opener. Just like, you know, the girls wearing her headphones.
Yeah, we've all had it.

Speaker 1 You know, you've walked around with your headphones in, someone starts starts talking you don't just just just stand there and carry on listening to your music you know you take them off go yeah what's up you know but for some reason we go oh no we can't because she's got headphones in

Speaker 1 i'm often i'm often walking around and my headphones in i'm not even listening to anything

Speaker 1 but anyway but circle back around to that that dynamic is

Speaker 1 we've got to find out who the girlfriend is Right, so you've got to you've got to acknowledge the guy and you've got okay. What's the story?

Speaker 1 So he's gonna go oh, this is my girlfriend, you know, it's it's so-and-so's birthday. So then you know, you've got the information.
You're obviously not gonna step on his toes.

Speaker 1 That's just being an idiot.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if you've got a situation, I mean, one of my favorite stories, this is um

Speaker 1 it's actually gonna feature in a book that's gonna come out soon. Um,

Speaker 1 I was working with this guy who's a bit of like a tech mogul,

Speaker 1 and he was a former Jehovah's Witness, like such a contrast in life that he was moved himself into.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we worked together throughout this week and he was petrified of women, got him very comfortable.

Speaker 1 And we walked into this bar and we saw this couple and what appeared to be this beautiful like Colombian model.

Speaker 1 I'm looking at that and I'm going, okay, well

Speaker 1 She's available. Yeah, she she's she's available like he's she's not part of the She might be part of the couple.
I don't know what dynamic they've got going on, but we don't know that, right?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I look around what's happened. I go, okay,

Speaker 1 they're there, they're drinking white wine. I'm thinking, how should we approach it?

Speaker 1 And she's already looked over a couple of times at him, right? So there's already been that non-verbal interest.

Speaker 1 And I come up with something. I go, okay, cool.

Speaker 1 Here's what we're going to do. Go to the bar

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 get a Malbeck. Like, we were already drinking Malbeck, like red wine, right?

Speaker 1 So it's like, go to the bar and get a Malbeck, then slowly move over to her, hold eye contact, and then slowly remove her glass from her hand and replace it with the red.

Speaker 1 And say something along the lines of, a girl like you, definitely looking like that, definitely should be drinking a red. And then slowly move your eyes off and then come walk back to me.

Speaker 1 Oh, God, it was the, it was, I mean, she did look like a Bond girl, and that is exactly what she needed to experience in that moment.

Speaker 2 You just painted that picture, and I could see the James Bond movie happening in front of me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well,

Speaker 1 I've just had a writer write that, and I do hope it is read in the way that I'm able to tell it, because

Speaker 1 it's a beautiful moment.

Speaker 1 So that then happened, right?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 what we needed from her is to show some availability, right? So she had to then splinter off the interaction in order for him to make this a verbal interaction now.

Speaker 1 And I said to him, I'd like, look, that's what's going to happen next. She's going to move her over here and she's going to

Speaker 1 give us an opening and interaction be able to happen.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's what happened. You know, he was looking over my shoulder.
I was looking over his. I was like, yep, here she comes, buddy.

Speaker 1 And he slowly moved over. And then I think the first words that came out of his mouth goes,

Speaker 1 I don't believe I've met you properly yet.

Speaker 1 You know, or I don't believe we've done names yet, or something like that. I mean, it was just smooth dialogue.
Smooth dialogue. That's so small.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, those are the moments we live for. I mean, yes, there's been amazing stories of marriage and,

Speaker 1 you know, picking people up from, you know, when they've fallen down and all this kind of stuff. But I really like those movie moments that come with this line of work.
You know,

Speaker 1 you feel like

Speaker 1 you've got enough to

Speaker 1 write a good script.

Speaker 1 What about your dating past?

Speaker 2 Tell me a little bit about, I don't know that much about you, why you became a coach or how. Did you struggle with women or were you good at it and wanted to share your knowledge?

Speaker 2 Tell us a little bit about your origin story.

Speaker 1 Absolutely. I mean, there's the conscious level and there's the unconscious level.

Speaker 1 And the unconscious level of realizing why you're on the path that you're on, I think, comes to the surface a bit later in life.

Speaker 1 And that came through certain books that I read about understanding a bit more about psychology on a deeper level and,

Speaker 1 you know, what sort of things we inherit from our parents and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, my early school life, you know,

Speaker 1 if we go all the way back to like

Speaker 1 the sexes, right, of boy and girl, like mixing, my early school life was unpleasant.

Speaker 1 And I so unpleasant that I actually forgot about it. I don't know if it was just pushed down because it was so bad.
Like,

Speaker 1 like it wasn't sort of on a conscious level for me. But I used to go to school at, like, I know, five, six years old, and

Speaker 1 I was getting kicked to shit by girls. Like, I was coming home with bruises all over my legs.
My mum had to go to the school and report it to the head teacher.

Speaker 1 It was a serious thing. Definitely something that you'd be worried about as a parent, you know.

Speaker 1 And it kind of just like that just went away.

Speaker 1 And then I went to, you know, we

Speaker 1 high

Speaker 1 school was like

Speaker 1 an all-boys school. So I did five years there and I did another five years.

Speaker 1 Good time. The whole boys school.
Great, great time, man. Great time.
I mean,

Speaker 1 I think a lot I learned about the social sciences, you know, on the playground more than anything, you know.

Speaker 1 And then I did five years study in motorsport engineering. Okay, so

Speaker 1 those are kind of also important elements because

Speaker 1 I did learn a lot on the playground on a social level about all the different tribe leaders. And, you know, I guess

Speaker 1 I was always satelliting around. the playground every lunchtime, like mixing of all the different tribe leaders.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, kind of

Speaker 1 I take responsibility for it I feel like our year group was quite strong because I behaved that way I was able to kind of pull people together a lot

Speaker 1 but motorsport engineering

Speaker 1 it taught me about being more of a solution-based thinker you know like there's because you

Speaker 1 you have to have an answer you know you have there has to be a reason why

Speaker 1 That thing is making that noise.

Speaker 1 You've put something back together wrong.

Speaker 1 or how do we improve something? How do we make something more efficient?

Speaker 1 So, I never went to do motor sport engineering.

Speaker 1 I loved messing around on fast things, but I just kind of took that way of thinking into what was a newfound passion of mine, you know, the social sciences, sciences.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think, you know, why did it, why was I really interested and passionate about it? Wasn't really aware of it at the time as to why.

Speaker 1 but there was a certain feeling inside when i started going to the book shelf in the waterstones and barns and noble and stuff like this that i was getting when i was picking up these books like it was something inside me that was igniting and i couldn't only really put it down to now was as to well this is a solution this is a solution for me to overcome you know what i'd experienced because every time i was around girls

Speaker 1 I was at that age, I was experiencing resistance. And I couldn't wonder why.
why was this happening to me?

Speaker 1 And of course, it was the early things. And

Speaker 1 mum and dad, I think it's important, you know, we must look at mum and dad. You know, if we're having problems in this area of life, we must look at the relationship that

Speaker 1 we've had with mum and dad or what they've gone through. And what I'd experienced at an early age is

Speaker 1 my mum had always struggled with being a social person

Speaker 1 and I looked at I think why why does she suffer from this never really had like proper friends and all that kind of stuff

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 she lost her mum at a young age you know she she lost her mum

Speaker 1 when she was 11 years old you know her mum was 30

Speaker 1 and she died on her honeymoon from taking the birth control pill it was it was it was it was tragic you know she's getting married to her second husband.

Speaker 1 And then her father,

Speaker 1 my granddad,

Speaker 1 lost interest in the whole family, basically through his, because he got interest in his new love interest.

Speaker 1 So essentially, my mum grew up without any sort of support, you know, with through

Speaker 1 that parents would give you. And it really meddled with her self-confidence and self-esteem.
So I've seen how limiting life can be when you don't have social skills and confidence and

Speaker 1 didn't realize that didn't realize that was an influence for me on my path until later on

Speaker 1 my dad's um

Speaker 1 my dad's always been more of like you know my dad's uh runs his own business um

Speaker 1 and he He's always been fanatical about fitness

Speaker 1 and you know run marathons coach down the boxing gym, all the fitness classes and stuff. So, again, that's something else later in life that I realized where I get the coaching element from.
Right.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 that's the already

Speaker 2 how it's crazy how we

Speaker 2 can see these patterns that emerge inside of us based on our parents.

Speaker 2 I had relationships in the past where I realized, oh my gosh, I'm just like my mom and dad in the sense that we never talk about anything real. We only talk about, quote-unquote, the weather.

Speaker 2 And I thought, I think I need to be a bit more vulnerable and open.

Speaker 2 And it's not to say that's not no judgment of my parents, it's just something that maybe I picked up from them and I needed to make a change there.

Speaker 1 Exactly. It's

Speaker 1 seeing what

Speaker 1 we experience from them and

Speaker 1 build an awareness around it and go, oh, okay, that's why I'm like this.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't mean I have to be like this. It's just why I am like this.

Speaker 1 The same thing why you might be drawn into dysfunctional relationships or you know people that are emotionally distant yeah probably because one of your parents was absent right

Speaker 1 or

Speaker 1 you've been let down from your earliest reference points of who was supposed to give you love

Speaker 1 your parents so you find it incredibly difficult to give your everything

Speaker 1 to someone because you feel that there might be this might be be the second time someone lets you down through a love dynamic relationship.

Speaker 1 So, there's a lot of stuff like that.

Speaker 1 But yeah, like that's that's kind of like

Speaker 1 the roots of it all.

Speaker 1 I found all this stuff and I started teaching my friends, you know, started teaching my friends. Didn't want to to begin with, to be honest, because I thought I found something.

Speaker 1 I was like, wow, you know, I'm going to get all the girls,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I realized I hit a ceiling by sort of keeping it to myself at the beginning. You know, I was going out and I was trying different things

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 I wouldn't normally be doing in social situations.

Speaker 2 Do you have a

Speaker 2 Hall of Fame moment?

Speaker 2 I guess I'm asking you to brag. I'm giving you permission to brag if you want to.

Speaker 2 A night where you went out and approached the most beautiful woman there or you said something that was really self-amusing.

Speaker 2 or just a moment where you just like stepped up and had a hero moment any moments from your dating past jump out to you

Speaker 1 there's been so many you know there really has because um

Speaker 1 like the early

Speaker 1 this like in my early early days like like 20s like

Speaker 1 some of the earliest breakthroughs like I remember there being like going to this club and it would be like this place we'd go every Tuesday. It was marked like an every Tuesday sort of uni sort of

Speaker 1 people, and you know, very sort of young place.

Speaker 1 And there was always these two girls that were like the girls that everyone sort of had a crush on, you know.

Speaker 1 And it might have been that they were more attracted to the guys that were maybe like a year older than you, you know, like and worked out a little bit more, you know, wore a tighter t-shirt.

Speaker 1 You know, I was a part of the tight t-shirt crew, you know, so I had to work it a different way.

Speaker 1 But I remember like we went out and

Speaker 1 we

Speaker 1 went to a friend's gig, first of all. It was at a different place around the corner.
And, you know, I'm always supporting my friend. I've got a big passion for music, always have done.

Speaker 1 So we were supporting our friends and they played. And then

Speaker 1 what the guys wanted to do after the gig was just sort of sit around and just sort of drink and sort of bum around of the band. And I knew next door the place was heaving with girls.
And I was like,

Speaker 1 I was getting anxiety. I was like guys like

Speaker 1 what are we doing here and I said to my friends like look let's get out of here and we went next door

Speaker 1 a few of us came and

Speaker 1 but then we had a little place and everyone's sort of drinking

Speaker 1 and no one was really making any moves reproaching or interacting and I'd always use these sort of social events to get myself out there and practice.

Speaker 1 And I'd splinter off, I'd go right and go into the bathroom. And then, but what I would do is I would approach two women or a group or something.
Something would happen, you know, it'd have to happen.

Speaker 1 I'd need to walk away of something every night, you know, a new experience. So

Speaker 1 I approached these two girls.

Speaker 1 They were the most attractive girls in there, and I can't remember exactly what I said, but I just remember that night being a huge breakthrough for me because I had the courage to approach those two beautiful girls in the place.

Speaker 2 they were together or separately?

Speaker 1 They were together, okay.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they were together.

Speaker 2 That's intimidating for some men. Maybe not you at that time, maybe it was.

Speaker 1 But it certainly was. It certainly was.
And that's why it took me such a long time to have the courage to approach girls of that beauty at the time. You know,

Speaker 1 I just remember walking away thinking, wow,

Speaker 1 it wasn't as bad as what I thought it would as how it would go.

Speaker 1 Like, wow. And then I started thinking, what else is possible? Like, this is crazy.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 2 I love that story because it reminds me of the importance of turning what you think is something scary or fearful and using it to your advantage.

Speaker 2 What I mean is, and tell me if you agree with this, I'd love to hear your view, but I've noticed that women know how hard it is for men to approach them, many of us.

Speaker 2 And so when you approach a woman who's with a friend or with a guy there, and you still have the courage to walk up and shoot your shot, the fact that you're doing a higher difficulty level can really spark some attraction in her because she realizes, boy, this guy doesn't care.

Speaker 2 He just came right up to me.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's an opportunity.

Speaker 2 So basically, the scarier an opening a quote-unquote set is, the bigger the group, the hotter the girls, that's more of a chance to create something because you're going to, you know, high risk, high reward, right?

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 The reality is, I mean, you're absolutely right, you know, because it's giving off clues like, wow, this guy goes through life and gets what he wants.

Speaker 1 I'm going to feel safe around this guy.

Speaker 1 You know, like, he's just going to be handling shit.

Speaker 1 But the reality is of the groups, they're easier.

Speaker 1 A lot of people think, well, the groups, oh, God, there's so many of them.

Speaker 1 It's not difficult. It's just different.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 think of it. They can afford to lose one.

Speaker 1 You know if you hit it off with one they can afford to lose one if it's just two girls, you know, you've got a bit of a situation there. Like,

Speaker 1 they're with each other. You know, you can't splinter one off.

Speaker 1 But I will tell you,

Speaker 1 because I've been writing a little bit recently about breakthroughs. And

Speaker 1 another one was, you know, one of my first daytime approaches.

Speaker 1 I never done it. I never really did it.
It was such a taboo. Like, how mad is that? Like,

Speaker 1 I think it's because conventionally, like, you, that's where we meet people in the evening, right?

Speaker 1 Normally, it's, it's not frowned upon to maybe sort of meet someone at a bar, but like to interrupt someone's day,

Speaker 1 you know, be like, hey, you know, I just saw you over there. Like, that was so taboo for me.
And

Speaker 1 I remember fantasizing about doing it. I remember I was on a bus.
I was on the top layer. And I...
I saw these two girls. I didn't see them on the bus, but I saw these two ladies get off the bus.

Speaker 1 And I I looked out the window and I thought, I got to do it.

Speaker 1 I've got to do it. I've got to go down there and approach.
I've got to go and say something.

Speaker 1 You know what? And I didn't do it. And

Speaker 1 I didn't do it. But

Speaker 1 when we were talking earlier about the pain that you have to be

Speaker 1 experienced to be motivated to do or not do,

Speaker 1 that was such an important emotion and experience I needed to fill

Speaker 1 because next time I did do it

Speaker 1 I was in a shopping mall. It did help I was a bit hungover at the time, right?

Speaker 1 I had that moment that we've all experienced, that exchange of eye contact.

Speaker 1 And I said to myself, you know, then we've got to create that buzz phrase of do it.

Speaker 1 I said, Johnny, just do it.

Speaker 1 I went over there and I opened up the interaction and nothing amazing was really exchanged, to be honest. It was just the the impact of doing.

Speaker 1 I got her number. She became my girlfriend for two years.
Wow. It was, and I was, again, I was just like, whoa, another ceiling.
I've just broke through here.

Speaker 2 That's fantastic. So you said never again about not talking to a woman you wanted to talk to.
And the next time you made it right and it paid off for you in a huge way, obviously.

Speaker 1 Yeah, don't get me wrong. I had a lot to learn.
I was very young about girls. I mean, that was, you know, I was an absolute doormat in that relationship.

Speaker 1 You know, there's a lot of things that I learned not to do and how to behave in that one. But

Speaker 1 those lessons were what would have come for me later on down the line.

Speaker 2 You know, I trained, so I, quick story that your story reminds me of this.

Speaker 2 I trained myself through hard knocks to punish myself in a positive way when

Speaker 2 I wimped out.

Speaker 2 And so if I saw a woman I had to talk to, but I didn't, I talked myself out of it, I would notice it and I would punish myself by, i would say all right you now have to do the hardest approach there is to get leverage on myself so i made a park in new york city so this is 10 gosh 10 years ago at this point but there's a woman i wanted to approach i didn't i talked myself out of it she walked away and i said you know what all right i'm going to talk to the most beautiful girl i see i don't care how awkward it is and i saw this vision walking across the street across a walkway she was wearing a fedora pencil skirt very curvy really pretty and i said oh i got the perfect line.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to walk up. And I walked up to her.
The second I got there,

Speaker 1 a

Speaker 2 gentleman who was down on his luck, sort of cat called her, said something like, hey,

Speaker 2 look at those moves, girl. And I immediately switched to something not planned.
And I said, hey, I'm sorry. I just wanted to come over and apologize.
My dad is so rude.

Speaker 1 So good. Yeah, I love him.

Speaker 1 And she lit up.

Speaker 2 She could, she said, and I quote, she looked at me and said, you're way better at hitting on me than other guys.

Speaker 2 So, to me, there are like two quick lessons there: A, take immediate action if you can, if you forgive yourself, but take right action. And then, also,

Speaker 2 it's fine to have an opener, but if you can find something spontaneous, that's usually going to go best. I've found absolutely.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's always

Speaker 2 my girlfriend in six months.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. I mean, that's cat.

Speaker 1 That's the thing. I mean, like, if you look at it,

Speaker 1 people are fatigued with the apps, okay?

Speaker 1 The online landscape, that swipe right-left mechanism. Like,

Speaker 1 we're just seeing it. And let's just say

Speaker 1 there's a group of girls and they're talking about how they met their partners, right? They're going around the tabling. Oh, how did you meet your partner? Oh, he was my boss.

Speaker 1 Okay, you shagged your boss at work. What about you? Oh, we met on Tinder.
Oh, okay, cool. What about you? Oh, you know,

Speaker 1 I was walking down the street. This guy tried to hit on me.
I blew him off. And this other guy told me it was his dad.
Anyway, cut long story short, we've been going out ever since.

Speaker 1 This is my bloody husband now. You know, like, it's the story that they're going to be telling again and again and again.
So however ridiculous it is, that's the motivator. It's the story.

Speaker 1 That's a movie.

Speaker 1 I love that one. It's great.

Speaker 2 And Kat and I were asked that many times. Hey, how'd you guys meet? Her face lit up.
She was like, yeah,

Speaker 2 and that was a big moment for me. Okay, let's finish up with a few fun, quick, short answer.
short question, short answer, rapid fire. I'll even partake in these.
I'll answer my own questions.

Speaker 2 One question I was curious to ask you, because you've been doing this a while, is what is one piece of advice that you used to give men that you no longer believe in or that you've changed your mind about?

Speaker 2 For me, I used to tell guys, oh, women want cocky. Be cocky.
Because when I was coming up, quote, cocky, funny really helped me.

Speaker 2 But then I realized as I evolved as a coach, that works for some men, but it's not for everybody. And I've adjusted that to be more playful or be cheeky.

Speaker 2 But if and only if that's your personality, that's me.

Speaker 1 What about you?

Speaker 2 Anything that you used to teach that you say, ah, I don't believe that anymore?

Speaker 1 It's a good question. I think my mind goes,

Speaker 1 well, we just spoke about it a little bit now, but the apps and the online space. Like,

Speaker 1 I'm very anti-app, to be honest, at the moment. I acknowledge it is a path, right? And I definitely have immediate reference of it

Speaker 1 working for people.

Speaker 1 But the statistics show that, you know, it's 20%

Speaker 1 of people are getting success on there. Right.
So unless you are doing an extraordinary job of marketing yourself, right?

Speaker 1 Which a lot of us that find ourselves get a helper space are not good at.

Speaker 1 it's best to save yourself the frustration

Speaker 1 because it's not a substitute for

Speaker 1 going out there and living a more social life yeah you know and I think I was working with one particular person that's come to mind and the pattern that that person was experiencing was to come out long-term relationship

Speaker 1 built themselves back up

Speaker 1 you know become more market friendly so to speak and

Speaker 1 It was wasn't working out with the guys. This is a lady that I was working with.

Speaker 1 It wasn't working out every time that she was meeting these guys. Like one guy was

Speaker 1 married on the sly, sort of seeing her.

Speaker 1 Another guy just wanted something casual.

Speaker 1 There was no accountability.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I said, you've got to get back to work on your social life.

Speaker 1 That's where you meet people. That is where it happens.
And I think we get caught in that trap of just using online as a substitute for

Speaker 1 living a social life.

Speaker 2 Great advice. I see it as a second funnel to bring more dating options into your life.
Almost like a business needs multiple funnels of clients, customers.

Speaker 2 Your dating life, when you're a single guy, it's good to have multiple leads coming in. And online dating is a great source of leads if you can create a profile that does that.

Speaker 2 But I never want a guy to feel like he has to

Speaker 2 stay in the online dating ghetto. You want to have the freedom to meet people out in the real world.
I believe your social circle should be wherever you are.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, as I said, like one of the first things we spoke about was reconnection with yourself.

Speaker 1 Maybe write down five of those things that you enjoy and then go off and find communities around that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, that was going to be my next question, which is, apart from dating, apart from dating advice and dating strategies, what are some non-dating related skills or pursuits that you you recommend our listener consider to just make him more holistically, socially healthier, happier, which will indirectly help his dating life, but are just about being a more holistically social guy?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's off the back of what I just said, really. I mean,

Speaker 1 if I was to think about something that I lost touch with, right? It was music. I used to be very passionate about music,

Speaker 1 particularly dance music,

Speaker 1 supporting friends in bands and stuff, even making music.

Speaker 1 And I got so work focused over a certain period of years that that kind of fell to the wayside. And it wasn't until a friend of mine invited me to an event

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 the music that was being played had certain aspects to stuff that I used to listen to. And I was so thankful for him taking me there

Speaker 1 because it opened up a whole new community and group of friends for me.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 what that then did, it put me in landscapes where I could, you know, I was meeting women off the byproduct of doing something I was already enjoying. Yeah.
You know?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it just kept on snowballing.

Speaker 1 It just did. But

Speaker 1 if you don't have that, then it's going to be hard. You know, I'm speaking a lot about that with the guys I've got in my online community, and we

Speaker 1 and one guy he's a he he wants to be in a band. And I said, Well, look, and he's struggling to find people to be unreliable people.

Speaker 1 You know, they're like, They're waking up, and they're supposed to do a band practice. One's got drunk the night before, or got high, or waking up in some bird's bed, or something, you know, so

Speaker 1 unreliable. I go, listen, what you want to do is go to the

Speaker 1 open mic nights.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we, I did a bit of scouting for him actually because I found that world quite interesting also.

Speaker 1 And so now what he does, he goes around to these open mic nights and he's making friends there. You know, he's,

Speaker 1 you know, and again, being in that world,

Speaker 1 he's got confidence. He's got wisdom.
So he's got status. He's more attractive.
Yep. It's just the play.

Speaker 2 I can't agree more. For you, it was music, it sounds like.
For him, it was open mic night. For some of my guys, it's been stand-up comedy,

Speaker 2 cooking classes, music, taking up instruments. I took improv acting

Speaker 2 for over a decade, and I essentially didn't realize I was doing it at the time. But I was buying into this wonderful community of people, like-minded nerds like me, who liked comedy, who liked improv.

Speaker 2 And I found a tribe, and I met some women there and dated some of them, made a lot of friends. And it just added so much value to my life having that, finding my tribe.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and

Speaker 1 let's just say you actually do date someone from those communities.

Speaker 1 There's more accountability because

Speaker 1 on the apps, you can just go, you know, you can meet someone,

Speaker 1 they can decide, you know,

Speaker 1 I'm going to be a dick.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm going to be a dick. And, you know, I'm going to get away with it.
Because there's no person, there's no mutuals between us. You know, and a lot of people encounter that.

Speaker 1 But when you're dating someone in like communities and stuff,

Speaker 1 you would have thought you're not going to be seeing

Speaker 1 too much of the worst of someone because it's going to come back. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Last question. I typically end podcasts by saying to my listener, hey, talk is cheap, information is overrated, action is underrated.
Here's something I want you to do this week.

Speaker 2 I'd like to ask you to do that if you're okay with it. I'd love to give that.
job to you.

Speaker 2 Is there one specific action or step that the guy listening to this episode should do this week that will help him either in his dating life or his overall social situation to become a more attractive guy?

Speaker 2 What would you like our listener to do?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 say yes to your next invite, right? I think we get invitations every day. Like I've got an invite to something today, and part of me inside is like, oh, you know, can I be bothered?

Speaker 1 Do I really want to go?

Speaker 1 You know, like, oh God, it'd be a bit of an effort, you know, but just give yourself a 10 10 bit of effort to be the shitty person that you were yesterday and I guarantee the best nights or the best social experiences often come from those things that you push yourself to do

Speaker 2 you are so correct quick story to support I swear I swear listener that Johnny and I did not plan this

Speaker 2 here's a story Many years ago, I felt exactly the same. My friend Eric said, hey, come to this art gallery thing I'm being part of.
He was a curator.

Speaker 2 and I'm like I'm so tired I'm so I don't know but I said yes to it and I met a woman named Rachel who became my long-distance girlfriend for about a year I loved her and we had this incredible conversation that night about art next thing I knew we were on a date two nights later and having a Boston New York long-term but really connected relationship and it started with me saying yes to that invite amazing That's damn good advice.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much, Johnny. This was a blast.
Oh, I forgot to ask you, have you ever seen the Jim Carrey movie, Yes Man? Speaking of yes?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 The whole movie. Yes.
The whole movie. He has to say yes to everything.
Yeah, well, there's another go-away and do.

Speaker 1 Watch Jim Carrey, Yes Man.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a really good movie to

Speaker 2 talk about taking the concept of saying yes to invites. He goes a little overboard, but hey, if you end up meeting Zoe Dachanel, that's a pretty good.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Or your Zoe Duchanel, that's a pretty good outcome.

Speaker 2 Johnny, for the gentleman listening to this who is like, hey,

Speaker 2 I want to know more about this Johnny Cassell. How can they find you? How can they potentially work with you or learn about your coaching or your content? Where should people go to find out more?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's johnnycassell.com. So you've got all our offerings on there, like programs, online community, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 At London Dating Coach. I'm mostly active on that social channel more than anything.
And if you punch my name... Instagram? Yes, Instagram.

Speaker 1 If you punch my name into YouTube, you'll find content on there. I mean, we've got over like, I don't know, was it like over 200 videos now? So

Speaker 1 there's lots of stuff you can learn for free.

Speaker 2 Nice. JohnnyCassell.com

Speaker 2 at London Dating Coach. Is that right? Yes.
At London Dating Coach on Instagram. Johnny, thank you so much for being here.
It was a blast, man. Great stuff.
Really great.

Speaker 1 Thank you, man. You've been a great host.
Really, really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 I try. I do try.
I've had a lot of coffee today. That helps.

Speaker 2 And thank you for listening. You have about 19 million podcasts you can choose from.
You just listened to me and Johnny for an hour, which is freaking awesome. Thank you.
I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2 Don't forget your dream girlfriend. She is out there and she is going to love you, but she's going to have to meet the real authentic you.
So go out there, take some action. Carpe datum.

Speaker 2 Until next time.