Increase Your Conversion Rates

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Mazzee Chevrolet, together we drive. Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz Show.
Today we're going all in on digital marketing and talking about conversion rates and how you can send yours through the roof to scale your business like never before. Andrew Gottlieb from No Typical Moments is the go-to person when it comes to optimizing your conversion rates, and he's here to walk us through his digital marketing strategy that cuts through all the noise.
His impact with methodology is shaking up the digital ad space. Andrew is going to reveal why prototyping and testing are so important before investing in paid advertising, why putting all your eggs in the Facebook ads basket is a recipe for disaster, and how to tailor your conversion strategies to your specific niche for maximum results.
So, enough talking, as the show starts now. Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz Show, where we don't just discuss success, we show you how to create it.
On every episode, we uncover the strategies and tactics that turn everyday entrepreneurs into unstoppable powerhouses in their businesses and their lives. Whether your goal is to transform your life or hit that elusive seven, eight, or nine figure mark, we've got the blueprint to get you there.
The show starts now. Today, we're going to talk about the idea that there's all these ways to scale with Facebook ads or any of that, but we never talk about being conscious enough about how to create your ads to create your campaigns that are driven on both impact and create profit.
And that's why Andrew is here. So Andrew, walk me through your process.
Welcome to the show. Let's get into it.
Hey, Charles. Well, what I like to say is our unique way we approach digital marketing is our impact with profit methodology.
We came up with this a few years ago because we saw some gaps in how marketing agencies, marketing departments were approaching digital marketing. And so we like to focus on conscious creatives.
So are you creating copy and design that really puts the individual in the hero spot versus the company is the hero and the guru? That's one element in making sure all the user experience is very up to speed. I was just auditing a website for my friend's business, one of his competitors.
I went on I went on it, it was loading slow, it looked like it was built in 1995, it had about 300 testimonials on it, it had one of those like loud shouting, you know, buy now style buttons. And that's a just in fly with digital marketing in 2024.
And I see so many, you know, copywriters, funnel builders, who had funnels that were successful in 2010. And they keep on trying to rinse and repeat that 14 years down the line of that, just not how the world works anymore.
So that's the creative element of this, rapid prototyping. So I hate it when people want to just launch a few creatives, few copy, if you're targeting, and set it and forget it like it's a billboard.
The advantage of digital marketing is that you can test so many different elements of your campaign and really figure out the bottleneck of what's stopping conversions from happening for your organization. And then lastly is connecting marketing to a P&L statement.
So how does marketing actually help to grow a business?

Because any CEO who you talk to is not going to care about your click-through rate,

your impressions, reach.

Is this actually helping me generate highly qualified leads?

And are those leads becoming customers that buy?

I love that you went in and you talked about the stuff about time.

Hey, if it worked 10 years ago, that's adorable. We don't live in that world.
We always talk about it. What have you done today? I also love that you talked about getting likes, getting followers and clicks.
It's adorable, but how does it affect your bottom line? No one's in here just to create a relationship. We're just going to talk to people and they're going to come to our site.
No, that's not the world we live. It's about a bottom line.
If you're going to talk about scaling and you're going to do these things in a very effective way that there's very specific ways. So can you give me an example of the streaming billboards and funnels that were there, you know, years ago? Good God.
That are kind of like the, as soon as you see it, like the top three mistakes, you're like, just don't do this. When it comes to it, these are the three things you see all the time that it'll

just save people just just don't do these three things and then we can get into very specific when we talk about creative impact and creating profit going through you know kind of the methodology like hey guys if i if you never interact with andrew ever again do this so you know first off what are the three big mistakes that people just good god why are you doing I'm going to ad-lib a few in here.

So if I don't get around to three,

you know, remind me.

So mistakes that people just, dude, God, why are you doing it? I'm going to ad lib a few in here. So if I don't get around to three, remind me.
And I'll give some recent examples of what I've seen. So one is a project of ours where they had a prior advertising consultant on it and chatting with the CEO, catching up with them, hearing what's going on.
And he was super pissed off because he was not getting reporting from this individual. So getting your data, getting your reporting organized is a must in digital marketing.
If you think just sending an email to the CEO saying like, your campaign was good, or I spent this, you know, this happened.

Sure, they know, you know, money's hopefully coming back in, but we're digital marketers and we need providing much more in-depth reporting to clients or, you know, in-house, whatever that dynamic looks like. What tools are you using for that? Would you have ones that you specifically enjoy better than other ones when it comes to doing that reporting? So you can give report properly to it? Like which ones you rely on? So we do a lot of Microsoft Excel.
We're a lot of hand-to-hand combat with that. So we have all these custom formulas and everything that we built for years, which is how we populate our data into that.
So we not only produce a report for clients, but then we send a weekly breakdown, analyzing everything that we're working on with not only the data, but then our color commentary, like we're Pat McAfee breaking down everything that's going on. We also include a Loom video explaining that.
And we have a weekly call with all of our clients to hash out their campaigns and talk face-to-face. I think this is one of the things you and I have in common.
The combination of whatever you send also connects it to a room video. Looms are so mission critical.
You can rapid-fire them really fast, and it gets over there, and it saves so much time. Also, I get to cheat a little bit here and take a little bit of a break from the podcast and know that you also have an Excel spreadsheet with your missus because you're expecting a little one very soon.
So I cheating here and saying mazel tov i'm exceptionally happy for you i'm glad that she's mapped everything out sorry back to the podcast here just i thought that was going to be uh everybody here thank you i thought that was going to be a sponsorship commercial not at all i don't do something you know me i'm just waiting to transfer it all right so excel the things, getting the things. So that's one example.
What is another thing that mistakes that people aren't doing other than not getting data and not getting specific reports? I would say another big thing is forcing Facebook ads as the first advertising medium. So we've been around since 2012.
Back then, Facebook was cool. People loved Mark Zuckerberg.
He was a whiz kid. Public perception as Facebook has changed.
Yeah, it's swapped on its head. iOS 14 happened.
Russia hacking or whatever was going on with that. Cambridge Analytica, there's just been so much going on with Facebook over the years that it's not the, you know, just click a button and results happen, which is what it was feeling like for years from, you know, 13 to 20 or whatever that time horizon looked like.
So we really want to work with a brand and figure out what advertising medium actually makes sense for

them. And in some cases, Facebook ads don't make sense.
We just started working with a B2B SaaS organization who has an AI product. And Facebook ads does not make sense in this scenario to get in front of senior vice presidents or presidents of organizations, I believe is our avatar.
we're going a much different route to get in touch with them between some LinkedIn outreach initiatives, email. We're advocating to do a podcast actually as well for that organization.
And we think that's a better way to get in front of presidents of organizations. We're not talking about like your mom and pop trying to get in front of presidents of like Fortune 500 companies.
So we're very much meeting them where they're at and where their avatar is. Let me kind of rapid fire some industries and you can kind of tell, hey, yes, no, yes.
Let's see if that kind of fits in. So if you're selling some sort of goods online, you're digital, you're selling some sort of Amazon fulfillment type of thing, where would you say, hey, this is where you want to look versus not here if you're trying to do something like that? Well, I would say in general, Facebook is great in B2C environments.
When you're getting into B2B, that's where the question can arise. And I have to give this caveat.
So this is a long-winded way for me to answer your question is that I had a friend who worked at a B2B SaaS company and they split tested all the platforms at once. The best results came through Instagram.
So at the end of the day, you have to put it out and test and see what happens. And I don't know the specifics of why Instagram was

their best advertising medium, but it beat out Facebook, Google, LinkedIn, and YouTube through their split testing. Do you have a platform that you've seen just universally that has the best ROI or is it just so unique based on the type of industry that you're playing? B2C Facebook, for sure.

Everything else is so

specific to that

organization and what they've gone on. And also, when you think about another platform, there's other things to think about.
For instance, keyword volume. Is there even a keyword volume level? And are people actively searching for that? So if you have a coaching product, for instance, that might not be something someone is seeking out via a Google AdWords campaign versus we work with this Italian retreat center.
And the keyword volume for like fancy yoga retreat Europe is out of control. So Google does great with them.
And that was actually where we started our campaigns. So it is phenomenally different, but you have to test it.
And what tools and what are the methodologies that, again, these are people wanting to scale their businesses. They want to get to them excellently.
The other people are just starting. The people who listen to this are scaling.
What are some of the tools or some of the ways that you have proven that you can test? And I will go back to one more example that don't do, but I want to make sure we don't lose this. If you're testing, what are some of the tools that you're like, this works really well.
This doesn't work really well. We've had really good experience with this versus that when it comes to testing your products.
In terms of software that you could use to run this split test, that would be a better question for some of our advertisers of the specific software that we're using. Let me bring it back to more variations of creatives.
That would be great. So we'll deploy, depending on the ad spend budget, which is going to influence how many creatives you'll deploy.
So let's say it's a first month of split testing. You're doing three3,000 to $5,000 per month.
We would probably recommend a combination of eight variations of copy and then eight variations of design, motion animated, GIFs, video for that campaign. When you have a much higher ad spend budget, that's when you need to really increase the number of craters that you're going to be split testing and deploying.
By default, you want to start with at least a different variance of that ad copy. In that three to five K per month ad spend budget, that's what a lot of our campaigns look like.
Love it. All right.
So we've got two mistakes. Let's get back to the third mistake.
What is the third mistake that you find that people run into just all the time?

Unrealistic expectations.

I was not on this call, but I got a debrief earlier this afternoon of someone on their team.

We have brought down their webinar CPL from 15 to 250 in Q1. He thinks a webinar CPL in a Facebook advertising campaign should be below a dollar.
Well, that's what we said as well. He spoke very enthusiastically about how that's realistic.
And I don't know if he worked for Tony Robbins and that what Tony Robbins pulls off, but a completely unrealistic expectation of what's possible. So in each type, and I'll break this down more for Facebook, depending on the type of lead generation campaign you're running, the CPL is going to vary.

So if you're doing a quiz campaign, under a dollar is probably possible. With that, you're going to get a high volume, but people do quizzes all the time and they just take it and leave.
A webinar campaign is a much higher call to action for an individual. And it's a much bigger commitment to put on your calendar, show up for 45 minutes, which is why you're going to have a higher CPL.
So we're thinking $5 to $7 for a webinar CPL is pretty solid in 2024. Under a dollar is completely ridiculous.
Never going to happen. And I love when people are like, well, Tony Robbins.
I'm like, are you Tony Robbins? No, no. See, I hope.
And also, I think it's really important where people are watching that.

When we're looking at the CPLs, again, this doesn't matter.

It's about impact of profit to your bottom line.

That's all that matters.

Look at your P&Ls, your profit and loss statements.

How is this actually?

Are you generating income from this?

And I think that goes into where we've got the mistakes, but your focus isn't on, hey,

am I lowering this to the lowest cost?

Or am I getting the best exposure? One of the things I love about you is like, am I increasing my bottom or how are we helping you earn more money so you can scale your business? So now that we know the three things that are just, don't do that, which the last ones have been shocking. There's no business I've ever worked in that they have unreal expectations.
Nowocking. Now that to do that, if they want to scale and they want to obviously help out their bottom line, what are some of the things and what is your process that you go through that you found that works just religiously? The impact with profit methodology or just in general? I'm going to address that, but also talk through what our three phases of running a campaign looks like, which ties into the impact with profit methodology.
So we made a huge shift in our business model in 2021. So 2021 was when iOS 14 happened.
It's when King Kong and Godzilla, Facebook and Apple started fighting each other. And we were just the fake.
Did you like that metaphor? Yeah, I've heard that metaphor, but now it's going to stick. I'm stuck with that now forever.
Thank you. It's another one of the things.
we were just the Facebook advertising team before iOS 14 so iOS 14 was happening

and we thought we might be out of business in six months. There was about a six month window of a warning.
So we decided to ship the business model to one, hire a team of fractional chief marketing officers to start our client projects and then build up our backend services so we can support clients in a bigger variety of ways within digital marketing. So the phase one with us is consulting with a fractional chief marketing officer.
We did that because I love advertisers. They're our core competency of our business model.
They're also not the right person to think holistically about an entire business. They're also usually not the right person to feel the wrath of a CEO who's pissed that you missed your financial numbers.
So we want that fractional CMO. Oh, go ahead.
No, let's see. This is why when people come in all the time and they're like, well, my CFO is telling this or my bookkeeper is telling me this.

I'm like, your bookkeeper doesn't make decisions about where we're going with the company.

It just tells me what's going on, but do not let him do that.

It's kind of like letting your gardener decide what you're going to eat.

It's not that it's not a good gardener.

It's a phenomenal gardener.

Love what he does.

My landscape looks amazing.

I appreciate you for taking care of everything, but you're not going to decide what goes into my body. And then vice versa.
I'm not the guy who makes my meals decide how my lawns go up. So it's no offense.
And this is important. I know because you gave a little bit of this favor going, I love marketers.
Yes. It's important when you're scaling or hiring or doing anything to stay in your lane.
You've got a lane, know your lane, stay in your lane, double down on your strengths, outsource your weaknesses. It's just a huge thing.
Get ego out of the way. I think that's the biggest problem I run into whenever I'm scaling people's companies when I'm brought in.
It's the owner. They think this is my bany or I know everything.
That's the everything. I'm like, yeah, don't.
My favorite example of this is Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs says, as long as I'm alive, we're never going to do an iPad mini.
We're never selling them. They're never going to take off.
He released the iPad mini and now they sell like crazy and people are dying. So sorry, even Steve Jobs.
Anyway, just wanted to get input on that one because people don't get it. He's not picking on marketers.
Just stay in your lane. Hire people who decide to do this.
X, don't expect them to do Y. And a lot of times business owners or marketing departments don't understand their data.
So it's impossible to scale when you don't understand your numbers. So the fractional CMO in phase one is thinking holistically about really the entire business model and what role marketing has.
So doing historical data gathering analysis, understanding the funnel, the Facebook ad campaigns, the messaging, the branding, the avatar, all of those things that financial forecasting, go-to-market plans. And then we come up with a new go-to-market plan for an organization.
So within that, we have the P&L statement. That's part of that.
The split testing recommendations are part of that. And then the creatives as well.

And phase two for us is overhauling creatives.

This is super important in a post iOS 14 world.

Before iOS 14, a lot of advertising success was based upon your targeting and just pixeling

and following people around the internet until infinity.

That's no longer an option because of iOS 14 and people opting out.

So, creatives are super important.

And we don't want to pass that.

It's like, have you...

What's his...

Peter Thiel.

We don't want to have the Peter Thiel approach to branding.

I don't know if you've ever heard that inside joke.

It's probably not appropriate for this.

But he doesn't know. We'll probably get out with that.
We'll do it after recording. We'll do it in the right.
We'll be four feet early.

Look, so we want to make sure you're having all the right creatives deployed not only in your advertising campaign, the copy, the design, the video, but making sure your back-end sales funnel is actually going to nurture those leads up to the point of sale. And whether that's a B2C

business, that's a completely virtual checkout process via Stripe, PayPal, whatever, or if they're actually being handed off to a sales rep and making sure that's a smooth process. And then for us, phase three is when we actually start running our marketing campaigns.
And whether that's advertising on Facebook, YouTube, Google, wherever that is, there are instances with B2B organizations where we'll do LinkedIn outreach or quote email outreach campaigns. And then from there, yeah, we're aligned on goals, we're running the marketing campaigns and let's run our split testing and start scaling.
I'd like that we've, because you have all these books and I was just going through it, I was boxing up the things and I have all the books that I got from Russell Bronson years and years ago about how to do all these funnel books. I'm like, aw, they're so adorable.
It was kind of like looking at a yearbook that I had when I was in high school. And I was like, aw, okay, that doesn't work anymore.
Things are changing so radically and so impressively. I remember I was down at an event and i was getting an argument with somebody though no but ios the ios dominates the market that is most ios you know there's more ios phones than there are android phones and i was like you want to double check your data because things have changed we have this volume we're just things aren't the way they used to be so So I love that you've taken this approach of going, hey, there was this way and then King Kong and Godzilla showed up and they should radically change.
All right, so we understand what mistakes people are doing. We understand that things have started to change and there's a specific three-phrase process.
And I love that your process doesn't start with, all right, let's just run over Facebook ads and spray and clay and hope that the pixel and we just plot people and become stalkers, which I know this is a surprise that doesn't work anymore. So if you guys are trying to do that and you're trying to scale, stop.
So let's talk about what does create a profit. Let's talk about what does create a profit.
And let's talk about what does affect you. So walk me through that and say, okay, if people are sitting here right now going, all right, I get it.
Andrew knows what he's talking about. I get that I made some of these mistakes, which hopefully you did not make the third one.
That's embarrassing. But hopefully you're in a situation where like, okay, what do I need to do? What are things that I can do right now that I can pull over, take notes and say, okay, these are things that I need to do right now that I can do before I move to the next step.
Be it, you know, start stalking you and bothering you and your team. So what are the things they can do now? I'll just shout out a few.
So one of them is making sure you have your tracking ecosystem set up correctly. We had a previous client last year who had, what were they in? They were in like WordPress and then there were ClickFunnels.
They were in GoHigh level. I think they might've had five different CRM tracking ecosystem.
It was a complete nightmare. So it was actually impossible for us to run any advertising campaign until they cleaned that up.
So when you were doing that and they switched over, what are the things that you took them to? We were like, all right, how are we cleaning this up? What is the process that you do to help them clean that up? Do you have any recommendations of things that they could do? This was too much for us. So we said, you need to pick this out yourself.
No, see, and I love that. Because people understand like, oh, well, he's going to give me this advice.
Sometimes the best advice you could do is outsource that. I am the keen of outsourcing.
I don't outsource everything because I don't need a full-time CEO. I don't need a full-time CFO.
I don't need a full-time CMO. There are times where I just need a fractional person to come in, fix this, and get out of the way.
It's just this per diem type of work. We used to do this all the time when I worked at hospice.
You don't always need a full-time nurse. Sometimes you just them that they're per diem as needed need them.
So it just, it is what it is. Now, going back to the fact that you're about to have a little one, you do need a full-time nanny, a part-time nanny, a night nanny, a nighttime nanny, a per D.
So you need everything. I'm just saying, so you got to make a bunch more money.
So you have a staff of at least 70 to 80,000 people helping you out at all time. You're fine.
All right. So back to the next thing.
All right. So you're organizing data.
So getting the tracking ecosystem all figured out, that's a super important thing. Let me even backtrack a little bit.
And if this is not answering your question, let me know. We think about offer testing in three phases.
I've been very much describing a company who's ready to scale. There are some instances of a client who has a completely new product to market.
They might be bootstrapped. It's just reinvesting profits back in.
Maybe they got some angel money. Maybe it's just a quick loan.
So we recommend one, testing your offer with your email list. If people who know, like, and trust you from your existing audience and social aren't going to buy from you, Facebook ads is not the right thing and you probably don't even have a product market fit.
So let's make sure that's aligned. Second tier is let's make sure this is converting via affiliates.
This is going to give us another vote of confidence that you have product market fit. And then the third tier is really what I've been emphasizing today, which is more of the scale mode for an organization.
So we really want to make sure that there's product market fit. And you can bypass one and two if you have the capital and just go straight to ads and figure out do you have product market fit.
But for a lot of companies uh it's going to save them a lot of headache and uh you know pissed off conversations with their marketing team if they don't actually have a product market fit and they don't have anything differentiated yeah don't don't be that guy that thought it was gonna be a thousand um i don't recommend in any shape or form uh for me personally in my experience even if it's a short window you're going to want to test it you want to if it's a short window, you're going to want to test it. You want to test it with people who are already KLT.
You're going to want to sit there and just interact with them and see what their reactions are. When we started out and we were doing the scale lab and we were creating the lab reports, we created this very detailed, just books, just had walls of information.
And we found out that the information was phenomenal, but we overwhelmed the audience. There was just too many things many things based on our design now if we had gone to market and pushed this all out and gone nuts we would have got i don't we wouldn't have known why wouldn't have known why it wasn't a convert but because we gave it to an environment of people who actually we enjoyed talking to and i exposed it to my mastermind they're like oh love the data it's too much you fried my brain i was like okay what do we do Then I expended out to four or five more pages.
Don't try and jam everything. And we're like, oh, but I wouldn't have gotten that feedback from a Facebook ad.
I wouldn't have gotten that. I would just know it doesn't work.
And I said, no, okay, well, I don't have a product market. I'm just, I'm SOL.
So I think it's really important to go out and reach beyond your friends and family because they're, I'll lie to you. No, it's a surprise.
But go out and reach out and say, hey, this is what I have, this is what's going on, is it converting? It's just going to generate an income stream for me. And I think those steps.
When you're doing this and you're doing this testing, and this is just me kind of finding out, do you have copies or ads or things that are like, hey, we tried this, it didn't work, or examples that I might be able to squeeze out of you down the road, we can put them into the lab report. I'm sure they're in a Google folder somewhere that I don't know how to operate.
So they're in our backend system somewhere. Awesome.
I'm going to, I'll reach out to your team and we'll get exact examples of like before and after and we'll try and get it into the org to help people out. Okay.
You know, it's interesting. I'll give one example of, yes, some split test of ours that we were wrong about.
So we have some clients who can film very high quality produced video. And we told them, let's split test and just take an iPhone and record something.
there are instances where the iphone selfie video actually does better than the highly

produced video as it feels more authentic and you're talking to a friend uh There are instances where the iPhone selfie video actually does better than the highly

produced video as it feels more authentic.

And you're talking to a friend.

I'm not saying that's, you know, all cases, but we had one who her best ads for the longest

time were just her under a tree as it was kind of like a hippie-ish product, just like

iPhone selfie video.

And it felt like a friend was introducing you to the brand and it felt more personal versus the highly produced video and video team and hair and makeup. People in our belief just didn't feel as connected to the CEO and their vision.
So that's a test that didn't work for us. Yeah, I love it because it's those little idiosyncrasies that matter.
For example, we were doing I was working with a client and we were trying to get better interaction and get better impressions, get people to spend more time. And we changed the titles.
We had you, how you can earn more money or how you, we added you, the power of you. We then took that and we said, okay, but we're going to personalize this in a white paint.
We're going to sit there and say, hey, this is what you need to do. Because at the time I was doing tech, we're like, this is how you need to install it.
Maybe you have not done this or you haven't done this. And we got poor feedback.
They hated that. So we feel like you're attacking us because you don't think we know how to install a printer paper.
And we're like, wait, what? So what works over here in the social media world of having how you can make money or make it a very personalized message to you, just like your client did with a cell phone and felt like you're talking to a friend, that doesn't always work in other environments. So this is why it's so important.
You know, you talked about having about eight tests. It's so important to test and understanding that what might've worked six months ago doesn't work anymore.
You know, a great example of that is COVID. COVID changed the market.
It just, it is what it is. Things do not operate in the same world because the environment has changed.
So it just isn't. You have to constantly be testing.
You have to constantly be talking to someone like an Andrew that's going to help you through that and say, hey, I live and breathe this stuff. This is my world.
I love marketing. Bless you guys and scaling and what you guys do.
God bless you guys. It's kind of like when I talk to my accountant and new tax laws comes out.
He gets excited about it and he tells me about it. I try my best not to fall asleep in the middle of lunch, but it happens.
Hire someone smarter than you. Get out of your way.
Understand what worked this month isn't going to work next month or a little bit. So when we've got that, we're doing these different tests.
We're making it personalized. We're trying these different things.
You're testing on your own before you spend all the money on Facebook and we're going to show some examples

of what works and doesn't work.

Where do we go from there?

What is our next step?

If we're sitting at home

and they want to try something,

what is the next thing they can do?

I would say,

and I'll bring it back to someone

who might be more in the,

do I have a product market fit?

And then I'll get into,

you're ready to scale.

So do you have product market fit? I'm going to bring it back again to test your offer via your existing social media you know fans and community your email database find some friends who can do some affiliate mailing one of our clients he had awesome success with his docuseries going around to some people in his very specific niche on afterlife communication and trying to get them to host screenings of his film in a donation-based model. So he did that, you know, rinse and repeat however many times it was and build up enough data that we were able to go to an organization with a 600,000 person email database with his exact avatar of a person and say, hey, this is what we've done in all these tests.
If you mail for us, you know, with a, you know, two or three emails, this is a revenue we think could come back to your business with, you know, copy and paste this, mail it out. And you could just be making money like that.
I'm oversimplifying this by that. And then went to, then went to the mega affiliate partner who then did the mailing for them.
And I love that it was a stepped approach. They didn't just go to the mega affiliate partner and said, spray and spray.
They were like, okay, I know exactly who my audience is. I know exactly how they respond.
I know exactly what words I need to use. I have my offer flushed out.
I know my offer works, which is a huge problem that some people have. You'll drive the people to the site, to the funnel, to whatever it is, or to the person on the phone.
And it just won't convert if you haven't perfected that process. Overnight success takes over a million years.
So it just, it takes time to do it. So I think it's so important.
It's going to save you time and it's going to save you money when you're scaling this, to have data that has been analyzed with a fine-tooth comb so you know what works. I know it sounds crazy, but when you send messages out matters.
Not only the text, not only the content, not only the copy, but when it's actually been set out, morning, afternoon, Saturday, Tuesday, all of these things matter when you're scaling. And each one of those, as we talked about before, it's different.
It's different based on your niche. It's different based on your offer.
And it's different based on your product and market, if it just makes sense. There's so many different little things.
And since you've done that for so long, are there certain tests that you're like, you know what? These type of tests or these type of things, we know when in doubt, if the person only is going to get one type of swing of this and they can only do one or very small swings, do these type of tests first versus these other type of tests so that we do create that impact and we do create that profit lines for them. Let me bring it back to kind of the phase one report is we really want to understand what is the bottleneck to scale.
And this can be a lot of different situations, and I'll give you some use cases. And I hope this answers your question in a roundabout way.
So we just had a recent client who came on board. And as we were analyzing, why can't they scale? They had a live launch in the fall.
They really think they could double it. What's the reason? And a big part of that was simply because they had the wrong person in the right seat.
Or is that wrong person in the wrong seat? This person was not right in any scenario. He was a very junior marketer trying to scale a campaign.
So it was really in that situation, you just made a bad hire. And if

you want to scale, you need to bring in these marketers to take this to the next level.

We had a different use case with a client where they just simply weren't willing to test enough

creatives. The campaign had plateaued out, which happens when you're scaling in Facebook world,

and it can be a lot of different situations. Their target audience was hit up way too many times with the same creatives.
They need to do a lot more testing and stop outsourcing to Asia for $10 an hour because we know it's cheap, but it's equally as crappy. Or would you be sometimes...
Yes, exactly. We had another use case of a client from a few years ago where they had an in-house marketer who was the right person in the wrong seat.
Different scenarios, that first one. He was great at copy, email marketing, just overall marketing strategy.
He picked up doing Facebook ads for them just because he was

a marketer. So he got it to 3K a month in Aspen and could never break through to the next level.
So he delegated out to us, seasoned marketers and marketing agency. And we've spent anywhere from 10 to 60-ish per month, depending on offers and all those things.
So they really just needed to get this guy into a zone of genius. And yeah, he built the campaign to 3K, but he wasn't the right person to go from 3 to 50K per month in ad sped.
You always use the example, the analogy of Tarzan. When you're swinging through the vines, you're holding another one vine, and then you grab another one.
Sometimes you got to let go of the one that's really safe and secure, and you got to let it go in order to keep that momentum. And in this case with this marketer, a marketer is not a scaler.
Sorry, marketers, I'll tell you, you're going to try and kill me for that. You're not scalers.
And your scalers aren't systems guys. Sorry.
And it's just important to get out of the way and fix these things and to understand that what person who got you here isn't going to get you there. And there's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with this person. Just as you said, let them sit in their zone of genius when they do these type of things.
So this is what it is. One of the things that when you talk about your genius, what are the things that you're like, wow, this is what my agency does better than anybody else.
This is what it is. One of the things that when you talk about your genius, one of the things that you're like, wow, this is what my agency does better than anybody else.
This is our model. This is what really, really, you know, we know the mistakes.
We know the things that people are making mistakes for. When you sit there and say, hey, when we show up, okay, Andrew, holy crap, this is what they do better than anyone else.
And this is the stuff that you know you're getting consistent results with. One the things that you have found that you're like you know what this is why we do what we do this is the stuff that these are some of the things that without giving away the special sauce but the stuff that i get you know this is it we found out that when we put flamingos on babies and make them run around in circles it took work whatever that whatever that narrative is I would say for us

what we're most well known for is uh media buying or online education organizations uh so it's an organization coming to us who wants to grow and scale their you know facebook google youtube we don't really like linkedin and tiktok never had great success but we know how to operate those platforms. And their product stack tends to be books to courses to events, certification training programs.
What am I missing? Maybe there's one more, but that whole product stack, we'll take on clients who won't be in that vertical from time to time. That's really a game time call with us.
We worked with a pro soccer team a few years ago as a lifelong soccer player. I wasn't going to pass that opportunity.
I've mentioned some B2B SaaS organizations we've worked with. That's very because I have a few individuals on my team who have a B2B SaaS background, and I know they could come and deliver in that situation.
So really, the clients come to us because they have that scaling problem with our media buying campaigns. And they don't know why they can't go from three to 50 K per month or whatever that looks like in that situation.
Or they're at a big launch and they need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. And you're like, how the heck do we do this? And yeah, stop outsourcing to the Asia for $10 an hour.
Sometimes a premium. There are some people in Asia that are phenomenal, but like my VA is in the Philippines, and that's kind of that Asian environment.
She's phenomenal. I love Christine, more than I could possibly tell you, but Christine will tell you, I'm not a Facebook marketer.
This is not what I am. So find a person, not saying that there's not people who can, but find the person again and be willing to pay for it.
Because from what I found is whenever I tried to go cheap, whenever I, especially with marketing, it always bites into me. So what are some things that if you've got someone that's like, all right, you know what? I get it.
I know I'm going to have to drop a couple of bucks to get this done. What are some of the things that I can do now to prepare myself before I get on the call, before I drop XYZ dollars that I can get my ducks in a row that someone can do before they go, all right, I'm here.
What's going on? We already talked about doing some of this testing in your own network with people already that KLT you. We already talked about doing that.
But when we're talking about writing copy or we're talking about doing creatives, are there certain places that are like, you know what? I really like these are the people who are doing creative and reading really well. I don't recommend.
Take a look at that. Other than just your competition, these are some of the places that have some really great resources that we can kind of give people who are listening to the podcast, like, okay, I get it.
I got to get my ducks in the row to save time before I do so. Yeah.
Let me clarify. I have nothing against talent from Asia.
That was not a hate code. That was trying to say, don't just take the cheaper route because it's cheap.
Just making that disclaimer, nothing against Facebook advertisers, nothing against anyone. We're going to divide your home address address and your home phone number, and we're going to send it to all of Asia, and they're going to come find you.
We're going to give them the gate code so that they can get in, and you get to talk to them directly. So I would say if you're in the coaching-oriented space product mark product stack that I mentioned,

I always say check out what Tony Robbins is doing. I think his team is top of the line in just everything that they do, not only from the virtual conferences they put on their creatives.
I think they're very top notch. What you can also do is go to a website called Facebook Ads Library, which allows you to see all ads run by any Facebook page.

So if there are people in your vertical that you want to do some competitor analysis on, go to Facebook Ads Library and they'll be able to show you everything that they're doing.

Exactly what they're doing.

And then those are the ones you create those kind of eight tests from.

You got to test that. Okay, well, this is what I goan's my competition you know i really think that she's doing great you can actually put that up and start working with your team and then again when you go and you do find someone who clearly is not from asia at this point i'm still sending them your address um you can give and say hey these are the people that are in my niche these are the people that are in my vertical.
This is what they're doing. Here, let's talk about it.
This is what I've got. And that'll help out.
This is what we try to create. And before you start getting in the environment, because again, this is, you know, seriously, when you get to this point and you're paying the five, six figures at ad spend and you're doing these campaigns that are at that level, you want to make sure you're as effective as possible.
And that doesn't, for me, happen at the five to six figure level one. That happens when you're lower and you're doing these baby tests and you're doing it with people you already know, just like the example I gave earlier.
So I know you've got to wrap it up and we've got to get going here. If there's one thing that you could tell someone, please don't do this.
And one thing you could tell, please do do this. Do do.
They're going to be used to that very soon.. You got a little one coming, so get used to that.
What are the two things in those two divides? And again, mazel tov, I'm having a little. So thank you.
Don't do this. Absolutely do this.
What are those two things? Do this, incorporate video into your marketing, whether that's in your advertising campaigns

and your landing page or email sequences,

just more video, the better.

The example I gave earlier of the split test

between the selfie video and the highly produced video,

just know you can get by with a lot

just on your cell phone.

So don't do... I'm gonna go back i was gonna go back to the whole unrealistic expectations the way we um break goals with clients is we reverse engineer back uh instead of just you know pulling something out of thin air of like $1 CPLEs on a webinar funnel,

that makes no sense.

That's never going to happen.

Or clients who want to have...

I was just chatting with someone last week

who wanted 40 booked sales meetings per week

to go from zero to 40.

And so I was like,

yeah, I was like, okay, that's a look great.

Yeah. It's really good

to watch things. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.

All right. Last question, because I didn't

wrap it up here. Is there one

book? It doesn't even have to be

related to what you're doing. One book, you're like,

this book absolutely changed my life.

I highly recommend it. Is there one book you have?

Charles's book,

which I don't know the name of, but I've never read. I'm just kidding.
Thank you. Look away for free.
That doesn't care. I was going to go look over here real quick because I have a really good book I want to bring on camera.
Go for it. By the way, as you guys can tell, completely unprepared for this.
I like doing this. I like dropping random questions for those of you guys who follow.
Sorry, Andrew was not prepared. So what do you got? I'm only half the way through with this.
Whoa, you can hear a little audio issues there. So I'm only half the way through with this.
It's called Fanatical Prospecting. Because I had such a huge influx of sales meetings, I started to book.
I put a pause on it. I was like, I've done so much already.
I can see I'm not even halfway through. I'm like an eighth of the way through with this book.
This is fantastic. It was recommended to me by a friend who's a fractional VP of sales.
And a little fire under my butt. It was one of those like, oh, I'm a POS.
I'm not doing nearly enough of what I need to do. So that was a great book that I'm in the middle of reading.
And so what was the name of the book again? It is Fanatical Prospecting by Jeb. I was going to say Blunt, but Blount.
Close enough. Alright, all right perfect thank you so much andrew for jumping on the podcast we'll get all those resources i will have my team reach out and reach out get some of those trades for you so any last things you want to wrap up before we go away i just want to say goodbye to people i'll just say goodbye and adios shabbat shalom andrew straight up killed it with his impact with strategy.
If you're an entrepreneur who's been dying to increase your conversion rates or give your outdated knowledge a serious upgrade, then this one's for you. Head over to notypicalmoments.com and dive deep into Andrew's world.
Explore all the ways he can help you crush your goals and take your skills to new heights. We also want to thank Andrew for being such an amazing guest.
His insights are like the holy grail for digital marketers everywhere. And to all of our listeners out there, we can't thank you enough for being part of this wild ride with us.
I also have to give thanks to the legend himself, Jason Allen Scott. He has been an absolute rock star in taking the I Am Charles Schwartz show to where it is now.
If you're ready to jump headfirst into the podcasting game to crank your business up to 11, head over to podcastingforbusiness.co. Jason and his crew of experts are locked and loaded, ready to help you create a podcast that will make you the king or queen of your industry.
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