America’s Last Election 5: Trump demands loyalty

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Hello, your episode of If You're Listening is coming up in a sec, but I just wanted to tell you about our podcast.

I'm Julia Baird, and I'm Jeremy Fernandez, and we have a pod called Not Stupid, where every week we chat about the stories we're a bit obsessed with.

It's part news, part internet rabbit holes, basically, Jules.

You're getting a lot of chat about poetry and cake, actually.

It's called Not Stupid.

You can find it on the ABC ABC Listen app.

This podcast is recorded on the lands of the Awabakal, Darug and Eora people.

Nearly eight years ago, one of the most awkward dinner dates in the history of American politics took place in the green room of the White House.

Donald Trump had been president for one week and he requested that the FBI director James Comey join him for dinner.

Comey arrived thinking that it would be a group of people dining with the president, but the table was only set for two.

He was uncomfortable.

He didn't want to interact with Trump more than was necessary.

In a group meeting earlier that week, Comey had tried to hide from Trump by wearing a suit the same colour as the White House curtains and standing in front of them trying to blend in like a 6'8 inch chameleon.

He didn't want to get too close to the president.

It wasn't personal.

He didn't think any FBI director should be buddies with any sitting U.S.

president.

Sitting opposite each other as White House staff served them dinner and drinks, Trump said something that deeply concerned Comey.

Near the beginning of the meal, he asked for it that directly, exactly that directly, saying, I need loyalty, I expect loyalty, or maybe it was the reverse, but he was asking for loyalty.

And what did you say when he asked for that?

I said nothing.

I just stared at him.

Just unbelievably awkward.

I just stared at him while a little voice was inside my head saying, don't move.

Don't say anything.

Don't move.

I mean, Trump isn't a Tyrannosaurus Rex, James.

You can't hide from him just by sitting still.

But in the moment, that was all I could think of to do because I was so shocked by the fact that a President of the United States would ask the FBI director for loyalty.

Trump, apparently still able to see Comey quite clearly, demanded it a second time.

When he returned to it and asked for loyalty again, I responded, you'll always get honesty from me.

And that connected to things I had said earlier.

And then he paused and he said, that's what I want, honest loyalty.

Trump and Comey's relationship ended badly.

Trump sacked him for disloyalty.

He's a showboat.

He's a grandstander.

The FBI has been in turmoil.

You know that.

I know that.

Everybody knows that.

Now, eight years later.

As Trump returns to the White House, I don't think he's going to have this kind of issue again.

His second administration will be very different from his first.

And a big part of that is because of the 2020 election.

This is vote switching in the computer.

Because of the 64 days we've been talking about all through this series.

I said, are you out of your epin mind?

You're going to cause riots in the streets.

Trump has only asked me for two things.

He asked me for my vote, and he asked me to come on January 6th.

Can't you just both agree that this is a terrible idea?

We're nice people, but when you treason our country, we'll drag your ass.

So much is going on.

Those days taught Trump, his allies, and the people he now calls his enemies a valuable lesson.

Loyalty is everything.

In the first Trump administration, senior advisors and people in important roles like James Comey learned that the hard way.

After January 6th, everyone in Trump's orbit knew that is is what they were signing up for.

And those are the people he's taking with him this time.

I'm Matt Bevan, and from If You're Listening, this is the fifth episode of America's Last Election.

So last week, while I was still in Washington, I filmed this whole episode while sitting outside the White House.

But when I got home, we kind of realised the recording was a little bit noisy.

So instead of making you listen to that for the whole episode, we have re-recorded it in the bunker back in Australia.

But imagine I'm outside the White House, okay?

Because I want to talk about Lafayette Square.

If you listen to our bonus episode after Election Day, it's where I met ABC Global Affairs editor John Lyons for a debrief.

There are trees, statues, benches, and chess tables, and when they're not setting things up for Inauguration Day, a clear view of the White House.

And if not for what happened on January 6th, 2021, what happened in that park seven months earlier would have entered the history books as the most memorable moment of the Trump presidency.

It was late May 2020 and Black Lives Matter protests were raging outside the White House.

As you can see behind me, there are hundreds of protesters gathered down here today.

It is really peaceful.

There's a lot of chanting going on, but we haven't seen any sort of violence yet today.

The protests were big and in the daytime didn't cause any concern for authorities.

After dark though...

Everybody's not here to be violent but it's going to get violent tonight.

That's what's going to happen.

Just a block away from the seat of power angry voices echo through the night.

Trump was furious.

He thought that a protest like this on his doorstep made him look weak.

His 34-year-old advisor Stephen Miller started drawing up plans for the military to come in and crush the protests, calling them an insurrection.

But the military wasn't interested.

In the Oval Office, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, quite literally told Stephen Miller to shut the um bleep up, right in front of Trump.

Then, a few nights later, things escalated.

Someone vandalized and set fire to a church on the side of the square, the St.

John's Episcopal Church.

They burned out a big section of it.

Fortunately, they were able to catch it in time.

This is a church built at a similar time as the White House.

Trump demanded that his Secretary of Defense Mark Esper and top general Mark Milley join him in the Oval Office to sort it out.

Mark Esper's low-key vibe and insurance salesman aesthetic hide the fact that he was in the Army for 21 years.

Trump liked to call him Jesper, though Esper wasn't really sure why.

There weren't any nicknames on that day, though.

The president was in a rage.

Mark Esper later told US TV program 60 Minutes that the president was shouting and ranting.

He's using a lot of, you know, foul language.

You know, you all are effing losers, right?

He was demanding that Esper and Milley deploy 10,000 military troops to the Capitol.

to disperse the protesters.

Now, this wasn't their first rodeo.

Secretary Esper and General Milley were used to rebutting insane ideas in the Trump White House.

Less than a year before, the two men had had to tell Stephen Miller that, no, we can't decapitate the leader of ISIS, dip his head in pig's blood, and display it as a warning to other terrorists, because that would be a war crime.

This time, President Trump was demanding something that both military men considered a massive overreach.

Trump wanted them to invoke the Insurrection Act, which would allow them to deploy soldiers against the American people and stop the protests with force.

Esper was horrified at the thought of using the military in this way.

I'm thinking with weapons and bayonets.

This would be horrible.

When they said it was a bad idea, Trump asked if the military could just shoot the protesters in the legs.

Can't you just shoot them?

Just shoot them in the legs or something.

Eventually, Esper and Millie talked him down.

Donald Trump denies this account of the meeting, by the way.

He told 60 Minutes that Mark Esper was weak and totally ineffective, and because of that, he, Trump, had to run the military himself.

Both Esper and Millie were busy guys, and after this meeting, they went back to work.

So, they had no context for the situation that they found themselves in later that evening.

See, that afternoon, pandemonium had broken out in Lafayette Square.

It started with a miscommunication between the Secret Service and the local park police.

They were meant to work together to put a temporary fence up in the square to move the protesters further away from the White House.

The park police would yell at the protesters to leave through megaphones and then march forward slowly and install the fence.

That was the plan.

But there was a miscommunication.

The Secret Service accidentally jumped the gun and entered the square before the megaphone warning was given.

Journalists and protesters were beaten as they fled.

All seven news crew was live to air when they were hit by riot police.

Exactly what it looks like.

We're the state exactly.

Oh, whoa.

Oh.

Amelia, can you hear us?

Amelia, you okay?

As the sound of the clash between police and protesters drifted across the White House grounds, President Trump started giving a speech.

Thank you very much.

He said that he had told state governors to use the police and National Guard to end the protests.

And if a city or state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them.

And he was going to start with the city he was standing in, Washington, D.C.

As we speak, I am dispatching thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers, military personnel, and law enforcement officers to stop the rioting, looting, vandalism, assaults, and the wanton destruction of property.

Wait, what?

Didn't Esper and Millie talk him out of that?

Thank you very much, and now I'm going to pay my respects to a very, very special place.

That very, very special place was the burnt church, and his entourage were going with him.

But Esper and Millie had missed all of this.

The clash in the square, the press conference that followed.

They'd been waiting in the outer office trying to get work done while they waited for Trump.

Then the president emerged and set off towards the square.

No more context, just saddle-up cowboys.

Esper and Millie followed the president out of the White House grounds and into a fog of tear gas.

It's not a long walk.

I followed their route to Lafayette Square.

Immediately, the two men felt like they were doing something inappropriate.

With cameras flashing, Trump marched over to the front of the church and turned to face the media with a Bible in his hand.

He beckoned other members of his staff and cabinet to join him.

Milley had already bailed and snuck back to the White House.

Esper, like James Comey and his curtains, tried to hide in the crowd of media, but Trump spotted him and beckoned.

For a few moments, Trump and an assortment of senior advisors stood awkwardly at the church.

Trump holding a Bible like he was trying to sell it at an auction.

And then it was over.

Mr.

President, your thoughts right now?

We have a great country.

That's my thoughts.

Millie and Esper went for a walk along the National Mall to the Lincoln Memorial.

Both were mortified about what had happened and the signal that their presence could send.

They needed to find a way to make it clear that the U.S.

military would not be used against American people.

Esper held a a press conference to try and distance himself from the incident at the church in Lafayette Square.

Look, I do everything I can to try to stay apolitical and to try and stay out of situations that may appear political.

And sometimes I'm successful at doing that, and sometimes I'm not as successful.

All he knew was that the boss told him and the other cowboys to saddle up.

I did know that we were going to the church.

I was not aware of a photo op was happening.

He told the press that even though the president had told the world that he was about to deploy thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers, that would not be happening.

Jesper said no spa.

The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations.

You know, like if a massive mob is attacking the Capitol building, threatening to hang the VP and beating police officers into hospital.

We are not in one of those situations now.

I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act.

When Esper got back to his office, his pal Millie was waiting for him.

Millie told him that he'd done a good job and that Trump is going to rip your face off.

In an Oval Office meeting, Esper got a verbal face ripping.

You betrayed me, the president thundered.

Because of what you did, I can't use the Insurrection Act.

Esper knew that this wasn't actually true.

As president, Trump could legally invoke the Insurrection Act and deploy the military, and there was nothing that Esper could do to stop him.

But Esper didn't tell him that.

He just sat there quietly, just like James Comey.

Trumposaurus Rex moved on.

In the midst of everything else that was happening in 2020, the pandemic, the protests, and everything that happened next, I think the significance of this moment has been seriously overlooked.

In that short period, from the Rose Garden via Lafayette Square and Esper's press conference to the face-ripping meeting in the Oval Office, there was a tiny little coup d'etat in the United States of America.

The commander-in-chief, Donald Trump, told the U.S.

military to do something, and they basically just didn't do it.

This kind of thing happened a lot in the Trump administration.

President Trump made a big effort after he was elected to bring in well-qualified people to fill key roles.

I know the best people.

I know the best managers.

I know the best deal makers.

I know people that will make us so strong.

I know guys that are so good.

And in a lot of cases, he did.

You've got some pretty impressive secretaries, I think.

I think both Mattis and Tillerson, I think both of them are impressive individuals.

According to analysts, it's another appointment aimed at appeasing the Republican establishment.

Here's an excellent choice.

But gradually, Trump asked each one of them to do something that the law or their conscience would not permit them to do.

Sometimes Trump would just forget that he ever asked.

Sometimes he would scream at them.

Sometimes he would fire them.

President Trump fired his Secretary of State.

Trump says he was sacked.

Bolton says he resigned.

Donald Trump sacked the FBI director today, saying he was no longer able to effectively lead the agency.

Jim, I'm sorry.

You're fired.

Get out of here.

He's the 18th cabinet-level official to exit the administration in less than three years.

In the week after the photo-op with the Bible, Secretary Esper and General Milley together came up with four secret rules, which they called the four no's.

No unnecessary wars, no strategic retreats, no politicisation of the Defense Department, and no misuse of the military.

If Trump tried to force them to do any of those things, they would resign on the spot.

They had their letters ready.

Yesper said no SPA to Trump on several occasions between then and the 2020 election.

And when Trump lost, Esper was relieved.

It was all over.

Trump fired him six days after the election, saying that he was not sufficiently loyal.

In a tweet, he fired his Defence Secretary Mark Esper, announcing counter-terrorism chief Christopher Miller will replace him effective immediately.

Esper was surprised that it had taken him so long.

Mark Esper, he wrote, has been terminated.

But General Milley was still there.

On Veterans Day 2020, eight days after the election, there was a ceremony on the steps of the Memorial Amphitheatre at Arlington National Cemetery.

Donald Trump was due to appear in public for the first time since Election Day.

The race had been called for Joe Biden a few days earlier, but he was yet to concede.

He still is.

About 20 minutes before Trump arrived, a man in the crowd started feeling unwell.

He climbed the amphitheatre steps with significant effort.

before collapsing.

Holly Ann Milley, the wife of General Mark Milley, was there.

She's She's a nurse and saw the man struggling, and she went to look at what was wrong and realised that he wasn't breathing.

She then successfully resuscitated him with CPR.

I tell you all this to make it clear that what Mark Milley did next was only the second most incredible thing that a member of his family did that day.

Today is Veterans Day and on the 11th day, In the 11th month at the 11th hour in 1918, the war to end all wars came to an end.

Milley had been getting calls from several cabinet members who were extremely concerned about Trump's refusal to concede the election.

The CIA director called him to say that she was concerned that there was a chance of a right-wing coup.

General Milley was determined to make sure this wouldn't happen.

And he used his Veterans Day speech to make this point clear.

We do not take an oath to a king or queen, a tyrant or dictator.

We do not take an oath to an individual.

We take an oath to the Constitution.

If there was going to be a coup, the military would not be involved.

As the weeks marched on, of course, Trump turned away from people like General Milley.

He brought more conspiracy theorists into the fold, people like Rudy Giuliani and John Eastman, who were supportive of his attempts to overturn the election result.

A cabinet member told Milley that the crazies are taking over.

Egged on by these people, Trump demanded that his Attorney General launch an investigation into electoral fraud.

When nothing was found, the Attorney General told the public there was no fraud, and then he resigned.

It turns out that many people in Trump's White House had their own secret list of no's, different from Esper and Millie's list, maybe, but along a similar line.

Vice President Mike Pence certainly had his, undermining the peaceful transfer of power, big no.

Trump demanded his vice president refuse to certify the election results and when he wouldn't go along with it, Trump sent a mob of his supporters in Pence's direction.

A capital riot was apparently on the no list for a bunch of the officials who were still in the White House come January 6th.

In the wake of the violence that day, four cabinet secretaries, the National Security Advisor and a wave of other people resigned as well.

The attack on the seat of U.S.

democracy has shocked the nation and caused a flurry of resignations from Donald Trump's own administration over his incitement of the riot and failure to condemn it.

It's clear that most of these people believe that Donald Trump's political career was over.

In the past four years, many of them not only detailed their time in the White House for the hearings into January 6th, They've also given frank interviews and written tell-all memoirs.

When Trump ran for re-election, several former members of his cabinet publicly called him a fascist and urged people to vote for Kamala Harris.

Through Donald Trump's time in the White House, he alienated the people who gave a check to some of his more extreme ideas and impulses.

It's worth noting that aside from Trump himself, the only person in this story who is headed back to the White House is Stephen Miller.

He of the pig's blood and protest crushing.

He's been named as Deputy Chief of Staff.

But Stephen Miller won't be enough.

Trump's got a whole administration to staff.

And the selection criteria this time are clear.

In fact, there's only one.

Trump isn't looking for impressive resumes.

He's not looking for people to challenge him or to appeal to his better angels.

He wants people who will not slow walk or refuse his orders.

People who won't try and hide in the curtains.

People who will just do what he tells them to.

I need loyalty.

I expect loyalty.

That's it.

So, what does a second Trump presidency look like when you have people like Stephen Miller in the room and no one left to tell them to shut the F up?

We'll find out soon because for millions of voters in the United States, Donald Trump has not crossed their no list.

Nothing he's done to date has been disqualifying enough to stop them from voting for him.

But why is that?

Why was January 6th a line for so many of the people around Donald Trump, but not for voters?

That's next, in the final episode of America's Last Election.

If you're listening, is written by me, Matt Bevan.

Supervising producer is Jess O'Callaghan with Cara Jensen-McKinnon.

Audio production this week is by Anna John and Marcus Hobbes.

If you have watched any of the episodes in this series, you've probably seen my little Donald Trump bobblehead popping his head up out of my mug.

Have a look at the video version of this episode if you want to see him on my desk while I'm squinting into the sun outside the White House.

Oh my goodness, my eyeballs.

Well, right after we stopped filming this episode, a German couple came over to ask if they could take a closer look at him.

I handed him to our video producer Murray to show them, and guess what happened?

Oh,

Murray!

That little guy has come with me all this way.

Rest in pieces, Donald Trump Bobblehead.

I'll see if I can glue him back together for the last episode of the series next week.

I'll catch you then.

No way.

That guy,

that little guy has come so far with me, and Murray smashes him after the last take.

Auckland Harbour, 1985.

Two explosions destroyed a Greenpeace ship, the Rainbow Warrior.

Her last voyage would be the evacuation of the people of the tiny atoll of of Rongilap in the Marshall Islands.

Across six episodes, discover the story of a people dispossessed, the legacy of nuclear testing in the Pacific, and one man's fight for justice.

The last voyage of the Rainbow Warrior.

Find it in the ABC Listener.