Beverly Hills | 7

Speaker 1 Wandry Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of KO List early and ad-free. Join Wandry Plus in the Wandry app or on Apple Podcasts.
Hi, it's Carl here.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to let you know that this episode includes a description of a sexual assault.

Speaker 1 A young woman with dyed blue hair approaches the front desk of the FBI office in Phoenix, Arizona.

Speaker 1 She's 19 years old and she's got her mother beside her as she gives her name to the woman at the counter enclosed in bulletproof glass.

Speaker 2 The lady at the desk, like, she lets the people know there's someone here for it. Was the first time I heard it phrased as a murder for hire?

Speaker 2 It was like a gut punch.

Speaker 2 My mom and I look at each other like, did she just call it that? Like, that is just freaking crazy. I was like in a movie.
Not a very happy movie, obviously.

Speaker 1 The girl with the blue hair, we're calling her Faye.

Speaker 1 And the reason Faye's here is because the day before, her local sheriff called her and her mum down to the station to tell them that someone had paid over $14,000 to have Faye killed.

Speaker 1 And now the FBI are taking over the case.

Speaker 1 After a short wait, Faye and her mum are ushered into a small private room by two FBI agents.

Speaker 1 It's like they're playing a good cop-bad cop routine. One is mostly taking notes, and the other is quizzing Faye in a way that almost makes her feel like she's a suspect.

Speaker 2 He was intimidating. He was so intimidating.
It was almost like he didn't believe the story or something. And he he was very blunt and very harsh with his words throughout the interview.

Speaker 1 The FBI agent asks Faye who she thinks could want her dead. And for Faye, there's only one answer to that question that makes any sense.

Speaker 1 If you've listened to the show before, you can probably guess who Faye has in mind. It's her ex-boyfriend, who lives all the way in Beverly Hills, California, hundreds of miles away.

Speaker 1 They've had a messy breakup, but it's been weeks since she heard from him. His last words on the subject were, consider the matter closed.

Speaker 1 As the interview wraps up, the FBI agent's demeanor changes.

Speaker 2 His personality just did a whole 180 and he was just like the friendliest guy. He's like, we're going to get to the bottom of this.
You're safe. It's okay.

Speaker 1 The FBI takes Faye's phone so they can go through all of the messages between her and her ex. A job so large that it takes them several days.

Speaker 1 They're looking for signs of violence, anything really incriminating.

Speaker 1 But they need more proof that this guy actually wants to have the murder carried out.

Speaker 2 They call me back to the FBI office, and I'm with my mom.

Speaker 2 And the FBI agent, the same one that was like super intimidating and scary at first, he

Speaker 2 lays out the plan.

Speaker 1 And to Faye, a shy teenager from rural Arizona, that plan sounds completely bonkers.

Speaker 2 He's like, we are going to pretend to be the hitman.

Speaker 2 We are going to fake your death.

Speaker 1 My name is Carl Miller. Since 2020, I've been part of a team working in secret to stop people getting murdered.

Speaker 1 Over the course of our first six episodes, you heard about how me and my team broke into a scam murder for hire website on the dark web.

Speaker 1 As a result of our investigation, we've passed more than 175 kill orders, just like FAZE, to law enforcement agencies around the world.

Speaker 1 More than 30 people have been arrested or convicted so far, with those numbers still climbing.

Speaker 1 And so, we're going to look at individual cases in depth, exploring how the impact of the list ripples out beyond the dark web, transforming people and their lives in profound and irreversible ways.

Speaker 1 If you've already been listening to Kill List, you might recognise Faye's voice. But there's so much more to this story than you've heard.
Faye's case poses a crucial question.

Speaker 1 When the stakes are so high and you're trying to catch an attempted murderer, is it right to ask the victim to lay the trap?

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Do not stay calm.

Speaker 1 Push people out of way.

Speaker 1 From Wondery and Novel,

Speaker 1 I'm Carmilla,

Speaker 1 and this is Kill List.

Speaker 2 So, like, I'm into like anime, Japanese animation.

Speaker 2 The characters are cool, and I'm not sure exactly what got me into it, but once I was into it, it was all over. That's all I did.

Speaker 1 Faye has lived in a relatively sheltered environment for most of her life.

Speaker 1 She was homeschooled with her two sisters and struggled to make local friends. So Faye formed her friendships online, on gaming and anime fan sites.
They see you as small and helpless.

Speaker 1 They see you as just a child. Surprised when they find out that I want real

Speaker 1 to my wild.

Speaker 1 One of her favourite fan sites is dedicated to the anime show Ruby, spelled with a W instead of a U.

Speaker 1 This intro, with a rousing song by Rooster Teeth, shows a girl in a red cloak rising up against a storm and fighting enemies. Faye applied to be one of the page's administrators.

Speaker 1 After Faye's admin application is accepted, one of the main admins of the group, a guy called Scott Baquette, immediately welcomes her into the various group chats that the admins have.

Speaker 1 Scott is 23 years old and comes across as bubbly and smart. Over time, Faye and Scott start talking one-on-one, first over Facebook, then another app called Discord, and then they progress to texts.

Speaker 2 I was homeschooled, and so I didn't have a big social life.

Speaker 2 And so when he started giving me more nice attention, I guess I

Speaker 2 felt important in someone's life started to fall or get like a little crush.

Speaker 1 It doesn't take long for the pair to become a long-distance couple.

Speaker 1 Faye introduces Scott to her family over video calls and everyone likes him. But they can't meet in person yet.
It's the height of the pandemic.

Speaker 1 And whilst Faye is in Arizona, Scott lives 500 miles away in Beverly Hills, Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 But despite the distance, they grow increasingly emotionally entangled.

Speaker 1 After only two weeks together, Scott tells Faye he's in love with her.

Speaker 1 It's the first time anyone has ever said that to Faye. It means a lot.

Speaker 1 Every day they text and call for hours on end. At night, they fall asleep while still on video call with each other.

Speaker 2 You know, when we woke up, we would be able to say, like, good morning. So yeah, I became very attached.

Speaker 1 For a year, that's how their relationship goes. But as soon as COVID restrictions start to lift in October of 2020, they hatch a plan to get Faye out to Beverly Hills.

Speaker 2 So I saved and I underestimated how expensive the hotels were because he, you know, lived in Beverly Hills. Hotels in that area are

Speaker 2 freakishly expensive. And so we spoke about it, and ultimately, his dad was the one who paid for the hotel for me.

Speaker 1 On Tuesday, 27th of October, 2020, Faye leaves her house and makes her way to the airport. With a healthy dose of butterflies, she's ready to meet her boyfriend for the first time.

Speaker 2 What if he doesn't like me? Like, what if it's awkward when we're in person?

Speaker 2 You know, I just kind of went back and forth, like, this is going to be awesome, or this could be an absolute disaster.

Speaker 1 For Faye, this is nothing short of a rom-com moment. Finally, she's going to find out just who Scott the Ket

Speaker 1 really is.

Speaker 1 When Faye arrives at LAX, she heads straight into Arrivals with her heart pumping.

Speaker 2 It was like an adrenaline rush.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I'm here.

Speaker 2 I'm about to see my boyfriend. I'm on the phone with him and he tells me where he's at and I find him and he gets out of the car and I'm like, so anxious, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2 And so I like ask him like, can I hug you?

Speaker 2 Like, what do I do?

Speaker 1 After an awkward and much anticipated hug, Scott takes Faye to the hotel his dad is paying for.

Speaker 1 Because of COVID, Faye won't be staying at Scott's house, but instead at the Avalon, a four-star boutique hotel in the heart of Beverly Hills.

Speaker 1 Scott though, will stay at his parents.

Speaker 1 Scott helps Faye get checked in. She keeps one set of keys and Scott takes the other.
They head out to get takeaway burgers back to the hotel room. Scott seems like the perfect gentleman.

Speaker 1 When they were long distance, he was always attentive to Faye's feelings, and the two of them were prepared to take things slow. So far, they've only hugged.

Speaker 2 Beforehand, I told him that I wasn't ready for anything like

Speaker 2 intimate

Speaker 2 per se.

Speaker 2 And he agreed with me. He's like, yeah, of course, absolutely.
You know, it was something we agreed on.

Speaker 1 But now with their burgers finished and the two of them alone together, Scott's behavior starts to change.

Speaker 2 He started trying to be like intimate with and trying to touch me and you know all that junk. You know, he asked me, Do you want to do this? And I was just very hesitant and unsure.

Speaker 2 And at first, he would back off.

Speaker 1 They head out for a walk, and things are normal, more or less. But when they get back to the hotel, Scott comes up with Faye to her room.

Speaker 1 It's important to let Faye explain, in her own words, exactly what happened next.

Speaker 1 Just to warn you, it's upsetting to listen to.

Speaker 2 He would start trying stuff again,

Speaker 2 and a lot was going through my head: like,

Speaker 2 what do I do? Like, you know, ultimately,

Speaker 2 I agreed to get intimate with him after a lot of pressure. But, like, during the act,

Speaker 2 I told him to stop,

Speaker 2 and he did not.

Speaker 2 And I felt very stuck. I felt pretty ashamed.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 2 you know, his freaking dad bought me a hotel room and, you know, he had a key to that hotel room. And

Speaker 2 yeah, I was in a different state. I don't have family in this area.
You know, there wasn't anyone I could call.

Speaker 1 After Scott leaves, Fae struggles to make sense of what's happened.

Speaker 1 She's never been intimate with anyone before, and she really doesn't know how to categorise exactly what has happened, though she knows that she didn't consent to it.

Speaker 1 She doesn't call her family, she doesn't call the police either.

Speaker 1 Instead, she's stuck in a hotel room far from home and only just at the start of a trip that's supposed to be an exciting new experience.

Speaker 1 So it makes sense that the next morning, she carries on as if nothing's happened.

Speaker 1 Scott picks her up and takes her to his parents' large, two-story home in Beverly Hills, surrounded by a big garden and a pool.

Speaker 1 Because COVID was still rampant at the time, Scott's mum doesn't want Faye inside the house, so they sit in the garden whilst his dad makes breakfast.

Speaker 1 That day they go out to the pier and the mall. In the evening they get dressed up for dinner at a fancy restaurant.
On the surface, everything is fine.

Speaker 1 But in the back of Faye's mind, memories of what happened the night before seep through.

Speaker 1 You get the sense that Faye feels obliged to stay and play along.

Speaker 1 She has to get through this trip somehow.

Speaker 1 After three days of an unbelievably strange and upsetting trip with her emotions bottled up, Faye says goodbye to Scott as if nothing's wrong and boards her flight.

Speaker 1 But when she gets home, their communication changes. She starts to feel uncomfortable every time her phone dings with a new message from him.
There is no repairing this.

Speaker 2 It wasn't long after that I had called him and, you know, told him, like, hey, I don't think this is going to work out. You're a good guy.
You know, thank you, but

Speaker 2 it's just not going to work out.

Speaker 1 Did he kind of acknowledge at any point what happened in the hotel?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 No, it was, you know, it didn't seem like a big deal to him. Like, he didn't seem worried about it.
And then finally, we were able to break up.

Speaker 1 Faye asks Scott to give her some space. She wants to move on, and she can't do that if they remain friends.
Well, he doesn't and keeps messaging her.

Speaker 1 It's nothing threatening per se, just some good mornings or stuff about shows he liked.

Speaker 1 But Scott is continuing to push at Faye's boundaries and he remains a small voice on her phone, needling her for attention.

Speaker 2 It became this thing where

Speaker 2 he would see me online on Discord and he would message me like immediately as I got online.

Speaker 1 Faye doesn't tell anyone about what happened in the hotel room. She starts dating a friend of her sister's and the two go out to parties and bonfires together.

Speaker 1 Six months after her trip with Scott, Faye's chatting with her sister, who's teasing her about her new boyfriend. She asks Faye if she's ever had sex and that question hits Faye hard.

Speaker 1 She starts crying and she tells her sister about Scott, the hotel room, the continued messaging after she told him to leave her alone.

Speaker 1 Faye's sister launches straight into protective mode. Unlike Faye, she's clear about what she thinks Scott did in that hotel room.
A sexual assault. And Faye agrees.

Speaker 1 So Faye's sister does what any protective sibling would do. She picks up the phone and makes a call to Scott's dad.

Speaker 1 She tells him that Scott should leave Faye alone. For real this time.

Speaker 1 Not long later, Faye's sister's phone rings.

Speaker 1 It's Scott.

Speaker 2 She told him, like, leave her alone. And then he ended

Speaker 2 that with, I'll leave her alone consider this matter closed

Speaker 2 i'm sitting here like having like panic attack like i'm crying i'm like asking my sister like why'd you do that like i was very freaked out that's when i left finally the facebook page that i had met scott in

Speaker 2 and so then communication was cut officially with scott after that

Speaker 1 Scott does as he promised and finally stops contacting Faye.

Speaker 1 It feels like maybe now she can start to process what's happened, to heal, and she hopes, move on with her life.

Speaker 1 In May 2021, Faye is sitting in her pajamas at her kitchen table when she hears a knock on the door.

Speaker 2 I hear this person ask for me and I'm just like, what? Like, well, I wonder who's here. Like, I peek through the window and there's a cop car in the driveway.

Speaker 2 Well, my mom comes in after talking to this cop, and she tells me, You know, okay, you need to go wash your face, change your clothes, and then get in the car. I'm like, What's happening?

Speaker 2 She's like, I can't tell you. You're not in trouble.
Everything's okay. You just need to get to the car.
We have to go to the sheriff's office, the police station.

Speaker 2 My stomach is in knots. I'm like, what even? Like,

Speaker 2 it was just completely beyond me. I had no idea.

Speaker 1 Faye does what her mom asks and tidies herself up before driving down to the sheriff's office. Shortly after they arrive, they're guided to a private conference room and directed to sit down.

Speaker 1 And that's where Faye gets the news that will change her life forever.

Speaker 2 My mom is sitting next to me and she's like got her hand on my leg. He's like, there's no easy way to put this.
You know, I'll get straight to the point.

Speaker 2 There's been a serious threat put on your life.

Speaker 2 Someone, we don't know who spent thirteen thousand dollars in Bitcoin

Speaker 3 to

Speaker 2 have you killed.

Speaker 2 I start shaking and I'm like tearing up.

Speaker 2 It was so surreal.

Speaker 2 And at that moment, that second on,

Speaker 2 I

Speaker 2 was scared for my life.

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Speaker 1 On the 29th of April 2021, our source Chris Montero sent us a kill order.

Speaker 1 In it, a user who goes by the alias EULA77 describes how they want Faye killed.

Speaker 12 I'd like it to look like an accident, but robbery gone wrong may work better. So long as she's dead.
I'd also like for her phone to be retrieved and destroyed irreparably in the process.

Speaker 1 The messages go on and on. And what stands out to me when I read the many, many messages between Euler77 and the site admin is how detailed they are.

Speaker 12 Attack's just the most recent full-body photo that I have access to, although her profile picture on Facebook and Instagram is the most recent.

Speaker 1 Eula77 is meticulous. They know Fae's nicknames like Chaos Pixie and Rye Bread, and include links to her social media accounts.

Speaker 12 I would like proof of her death sent to me. She has a distinctive tattoo on one of her forearms, but I know the image of it.

Speaker 12 So a photo of her corpse and a photo of her tattoo for identification would work. I'll refrain from sending a picture of the tattoo to avoid doctored photos.

Speaker 1 We immediately pass on everything we have to our contacts at the FBI. All we can do is hope that they keep Faye safe.

Speaker 1 Back in the police station, Faye is still reeling from the shock of the news. But the local cops seem almost excited about it.

Speaker 1 Faye says she hears one of them say, Nothing like this has ever happened in our town.

Speaker 1 But the local force is not running the investigation the FBI is. They want to speak to Faye tomorrow.
And with that, the officer sends them off on a tearful drive home.

Speaker 1 The next morning, Faye and her mum meet with the FBI. She tells them all about Scott.
And after analysing her phone, they lay out their plan.

Speaker 1 In order to prove that Scott really wants Faye dead, An undercover agent is going to approach him, pretending to be the hitman.

Speaker 1 And to convince Scott that the the whole thing is real, the FBI need Faye to play along.

Speaker 1 So together with the FBI agents, she heads to a remote park area near the local zoo.

Speaker 2 The whole walk to where they want to take these pictures, they're making just these jokes. They're making these dark jokes about faking my death.

Speaker 2 So my mom and I were just like, what even is going on?

Speaker 1 They find a secluded spot near a river. The photographer asks Faye to lie down in the mud, surrounded by dead leaves, sticks, rocks, and shrubs.

Speaker 2 She's telling me, you know, stick your arm out, make sure your tattoo is visible.

Speaker 1 The photographer shows the photos of Faye in the dirt to her mum. She fights back tears as she reviews her daughter's proof of death.
But the FBI agents don't seem to notice.

Speaker 2 You can see the photographer's like shoe in the corner of the picture

Speaker 2 and they start making a joke about how it makes it look more real, like that's the hitman's foot in the picture.

Speaker 2 And they're like laughing about it and I'm just like, I just laid in the mud for you so you can pretend to be my hitman and pretend I'm dead. Like, why are you laughing?

Speaker 1 Next, they need a photo of Faye clearly alive. They want it to look like the hitman is stalking her as she goes about her life.

Speaker 1 They offer to get a photographer to do it, but Faye decides to organise the shoot herself.

Speaker 1 At the supermarket, between the electronics and the kids' clothing sections, A shadowy figure stalks Faye as she casually browses the aisles.

Speaker 1 It's her grandmother, who snaps a couple of photos as Faye pretends to shop. They send the photos off to the FBI.

Speaker 1 The second phase of the FBI's plan now rolls into action. They make contact with Scott Burquette directly, not on the Hitman for Hire site, but on WhatsApp.

Speaker 1 They use the supermarket photos to break the ice, exchange a few messages, and then when they call, Faye's suspicions become

Speaker 1 The transcript here is read by actors.

Speaker 16 Hi, you got the pictures?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, so I'm following up on

Speaker 16 something that was started a little while ago.

Speaker 16 I'm just making contact with you.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 14 I was actually surprised to get that through WhatsApp.

Speaker 16 I know. We switch things up every once in a while.

Speaker 1 The FBI are already confident that Scott is the one behind the order. Using the evidence we gave them, they were able to trace the Bitcoin wallet used to pay for the hit back to Scott.

Speaker 1 And with Faye's interview, they have a solid motive for the attempted killing. But what they need is cast iron proof.

Speaker 1 Evidence that will stand up in court and prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Scott fully intended to have Faye murdered.

Speaker 3 Good. All right.

Speaker 16 So my understanding is what has to get done is this has to get done.

Speaker 3 Uh, we're looking at some kind of accident or robbery to have gone wrong, right?

Speaker 14 Yeah, that way it doesn't get traced.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 16 Uh, what is there any part of it you want to see?

Speaker 17 Uh, do you want a video of her not breathing?

Speaker 16 What do you want to see?

Speaker 14 Um, picture of the corpse and a picture of the tattoo to verify. Okay, just so that way, because there were warnings of like, hey, make sure it's not photoshopped.

Speaker 1 So far, so good.

Speaker 1 But there's one more piece of evidence the FBI needs to prove that Scott is really willing to pay money to have Faye killed.

Speaker 1 They already have the Bitcoin payments, but now the hitman tells Scott he needs a sweetener to get the job done. Scott agrees.
and wires the money from a local Western union.

Speaker 1 With this, Scott's fate is sealed. The FBI don't even need to send him the proof of death photos.
They have everything they need to arrest Scott for trying to murder Faye.

Speaker 1 So the last part of the plan is Scott's alibi. But it's not just an alibi, it's a trap.

Speaker 1 On May 21st, 2021, the day that Faye is scheduled to be killed, Scott is filmed by a surveillance camera buying alcohol in a grocery store.

Speaker 1 He thinks this will make it impossible for anyone to believe that he could be involved in FaZe murder.

Speaker 1 But the FBI are waiting for Scott outside the store. And when he comes out with his bag of boobs, he gets a rude awakening.

Speaker 15 A Beverly Hills man has been arrested in an alleged murder-for-hire plot to kill a woman he used to date.

Speaker 2 The supposed hitman Burquette hired off the dark web was really an undercover agent.

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B twenty one.

Speaker 1 When the team took this case, we had a polarised reaction to the way the FBI handled it.

Speaker 1 On the one hand, they're investigating it in a way that is muscular and really proactive and pursuing the suspect. On the other, that approach is also potentially quite a risky one.

Speaker 1 It begs a question that we've asked ourselves many, many times.

Speaker 1 When you're trying to prevent a murder, how far is too far?

Speaker 1 And now that we know more about what the FBI does with our information, I can't help but wonder just how unusual is it for the authority to take measures like this, to even go so far as to pose as a hitman and fake the death of one of our targets.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, it's really shocking, isn't it?

Speaker 1 That's Caroline Thornham, my producer. She's been with me every step of this journey investigating the kill list.
And so she knows these cases inside and out.

Speaker 4 But the undercover element of this case is something that then crops up in other cases too.

Speaker 4 In four that we've seen, that we know of, the FBI have used undercover tactics a bit like this in order to try and catch the perpetrator.

Speaker 4 It seems like this case, which is the first one they do this in, was a bit of a blueprint for them.

Speaker 1 And we know that we were worried because it kind of introduced this new risk, but I suppose the real root question of all of this is, does it work?

Speaker 4 It's interesting. You know, usually the suspects do take the bait, but there was one case we saw where the suspect was hesitant about following through with the hit.

Speaker 4 She was 19 years old and she'd had an affair with an older man. When he broke up with her, she then tried to have him killed.

Speaker 4 But when she was approached by the undercover agent from the FBI, she actually hesitated and tried to back out of the murder.

Speaker 1 Did that make a difference?

Speaker 4 legally speaking that she didn't try and follow through she was still convicted but it might have reduced her sentence she only got three years in prison.

Speaker 1 And what about Faye's case then in particular, the fact that she participated in these proof-of-death photos?

Speaker 4 As far as we know, this is the only time the FBI have done this with our cases, at least. I can't even imagine what that must have been like for Faye.

Speaker 4 You know, they're already talking to him as a hitman. Why do they need to go to this extra step? How often are they doing something like this?

Speaker 4 The special agent who handled Faye's case wouldn't go on the record for us. But it turns out that there's actually quite a few FBI agents out there with experience of posing as hitmen.

Speaker 8 I've been the guy that delivered the bomb to

Speaker 8 somebody who wanted to blow up a family. I've been the guy to provide a gun to the white supremacists who wanted to shoot up a synagogue.

Speaker 4 This is Scott Payne. He worked for the FBI for 23 years, many of which he spent undercover.
And crucially for us, he's also got a lot of experience posing as a hitman.

Speaker 8 I mean, look, I mean, you can see me, right? I'm the country guy. I'm 6'4.
I got tattoos. I work out and I ride motorcycles.

Speaker 8 I'm in the backwoods with people missing teeth, scratching their skin, and can turn on you in a heartbeat. And I'm like, these are my people.

Speaker 1 This is what my skill set gets me, you know?

Speaker 8 But in my experience, the murder for hires are really quick. You know, it's just two, three meets.
I'm not coming in there to joke.

Speaker 8 I'm not coming in to build rapport with you because I'm coming in as a killer. You're hiring me to kill somebody and that's what I'm here to do.

Speaker 4 So Scott Payne can help us understand why the FBI takes such extraordinary steps to investigate cases like FaZe.

Speaker 4 And it turns out it's not as uncommon as you'd think.

Speaker 4 The FBI actually use undercover agents a lot with cases involving contract killing, and it's especially useful where the perpetrator is hiding behind some kind of online alias.

Speaker 4 That's because what they need to be able to do, essentially, is match up the dark web user with a real life person beyond any reasonable doubt in court.

Speaker 4 You know, all of their intentions, all of their actions. And this undercover operation allows them to do that.

Speaker 8 I mean, it sounds like a great case to me because it sounds like it's pretty airtight. If she's a victim and we've identified her, Faye, and we want to know if Scott is really planning this.

Speaker 8 You're going to try to build evidence. We're going to try to get more conversation.

Speaker 8 And if he is actually trying to get her killed, I want to make sure that you you think I'm the guy and you're not shopping around.

Speaker 8 If this Scott guy gets spooked and then goes, ghost, now we don't even know who he really is or if he's out shopping or if he's like, screw it, I'm just going to go kill her myself.

Speaker 8 Those are all things you got to worry about.

Speaker 4 He also thinks it was a good idea to get Faye involved, which for me is the part of this that I've always struggled to get on board with.

Speaker 4 If you're working on a case where you're going to enlist a victim to sort of play a part right in this undercover sting, how do you

Speaker 4 weigh up how you're going to do that without it being potentially really traumatic for them?

Speaker 8 That's a tough question, Caroline. I mean it's a case-by-case basis.
That's all I can tell you. I'm speaking from my own experience.
I would just have to weigh it out.

Speaker 8 If they come back and go, it's just too traumatic, I can't do it. Well, then

Speaker 8 Every FBI office has a victim witness coordinator. And if I was running this murder for hire case, I would have that person there.
They will give you avenues to contact somebody for help.

Speaker 4 What surprised me the most is that Scott didn't think Faye faking her own death was unusual at all. He told me about a murder for hire case he'd work.

Speaker 4 The target was a woman who was involved in human trafficking.

Speaker 8 We scooped her up quietly. I said, look, I know you do criminal activity.
I know that you move people illegally into the United States all the time. That's not what this case is about.

Speaker 8 I'm trying to keep you safe because

Speaker 8 this person wants you killed. But if you call your son and you let them know, all it takes is one set of loose lips to say, oh, she's really working with the FBI and the whole thing's blown.

Speaker 8 And we told her, you can't call your kids. You can't call anybody.
It has to look like you've been kidnapped. So

Speaker 8 we had to make it look very real.

Speaker 8 And, you know, we put her up in a hotel room and then we ended up doing the kind of deal where we taped her up, you know, to look like she had been killed and took pictures.

Speaker 8 And we went to pick up the $50,000 for the supposed murder of this woman.

Speaker 4 It sounds like something out of a movie, you know, being taped up in a hotel room and made up to look like you've been murdered.

Speaker 4 And I have a lot of empathy for this woman, too, because that must have been terrifying. Just like the experience for Faye sounds like it was incredibly strange and hard to go through as well.

Speaker 1 You know what? Like, I genuinely don't feel like morally particularly conflicted about the FBI using tactics which draws a potential killer into an incriminating conversation.

Speaker 1 I think that the kind of imagination and proactivity that we see here,

Speaker 1 if it were me, I would much rather that than the kind of languid, feckless, no result investigations that we've seen all too many other times around the world.

Speaker 4 Sure, but I also think that that just because they've got a result here doesn't mean we shouldn't pay close attention to what it's like for a victim going through these processes.

Speaker 4 Because I think that's something we've seen time and time again in the cases that have gone through the courts is that even in cases where a victim has got some kind of justice at the end, which is obviously what we would hope for, they've often been let down along the way by processes that are just not set up to be sensitive to what it's like to a person who's already gone through something unbelievably traumatic in the crime and is now being potentially like re-traumatized over and over again by the system that's supposed to punish someone or get justice for them.

Speaker 4 And I think, I don't know, I think I have questions about this because, you know, they didn't even ultimately use the photos where they made Faye fake her in death.

Speaker 1 The whole thing is horribly traumatic. But what's more traumatic than anything else is there not being an end to this.

Speaker 1 and not ever being able to feel safe because the person that's put you on the list is still out there somewhere in the world.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, you certainly can't say that the FBI here are being inactive, right? And I guess it really comes down to fundamentally whether that gets results.

Speaker 4 So after Scott is arrested by the FBI, he's taken to a detention centre pending trial. And this is where his defence team really kick into overdrive and where the legal drama begins.

Speaker 4 I've been going through the documents and they're filled with letters from Scott's family, vouching for his character and trying to get him out on bail.

Speaker 4 There are lots of different family members describing him as a really good person, someone who would drop anything, basically, to help his nearest and dearest.

Speaker 4 The evidence that they're using feels at times a bit jarring considering how serious the allegations against him are.

Speaker 4 For example, in one instance they say Scott used to give his siblings the biggest slice of cake when they were children.

Speaker 1 The biggest slice of cake?

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's coming down to cake. And there also is another anecdote from his college years that really feels quite weird to read, given what Faye says happened to her.

Speaker 4 The words here are read by an actor.

Speaker 17 Scott was friends with a group that maintained an unofficial safety escort patrol for female students walking alone late at night.

Speaker 17 His group would not drink and would stand by near the fraternities so they, as a group, could walk female students safely to their homes if they were walking alone late at night and wanted to be escorted.

Speaker 17 The group never dated any of the students they escorted. They were only out to help protect them.

Speaker 1 Given the crimes that Scott's been accused of, this self-appointed late-night escort service seems like a particularly weird thing to draw out of his background and put into a legal document.

Speaker 4 It's really quite strange, isn't it? And I know, I mean, when I was a student, if I'd run into a group like this, personally, I would probably avoid them, to be honest.

Speaker 4 And given all the context here of the case against him and the nature of the allegations, it doesn't feel that convincing to me.

Speaker 1 So does all of this then mean that Scott doesn't get bail?

Speaker 4 Well, you would have assumed that, but the defense were fighting really hard to get him out of prison, and the prosecution had to fight back very hard as well.

Speaker 4 It's a close-run thing, but then Scott makes a massive and frankly quite unbelievable mistake.

Speaker 1 What does he do?

Speaker 4 So while Scott is at the detention centre, he asks another inmate who's about to be released if they will scrub evidence of his own crime for him.

Speaker 4 Scott offers this guy $10,000 and writes down detailed instructions on a sheet of A4 paper for this person. It's like literally chock full of scribbled instructions.

Speaker 4 He gives this inmate all of the login details for the murder for Hiresite and tells him to send the admin a message suggesting that ULA77 is actually some other person who'd been hired to frame Scott.

Speaker 4 He also asks this guy to wipe as much information as possible off the site. But then instead of helping Scott, this inmate goes straight to the prison authorities.

Speaker 4 He turns Scott in in return for good favour on his own record. And at that point, it's pretty much curtains for Scott.
Like he's sealed his own fate.

Speaker 1 Gosh, I mean, that's so self-incriminating to leave a written record of instructions for the destruction of evidence.

Speaker 4 Yeah, and I think it speaks to this thing that we see so often with these criminals, right?

Speaker 4 That on the one hand, they're really genuinely dangerous, but at the same time, incredibly naive in how they go about it.

Speaker 1 And I'm no lawyer, but I can imagine that once the authorities learned of this, it doesn't just sink Scott's bail attempts, but actually his entire defence.

Speaker 4 I mean it certainly hasn't helped his case. At this point he's pretty much out of options.
So on April 27th, 2022, Scott pleads guilty.

Speaker 4 He's sentenced to five years in prison and a three-year period of supervised release. But even so, to Faye, it's not enough time for what she's had to go through.

Speaker 2 I don't think I can move on this quickly. Like,

Speaker 2 he's going to get out and I'm going to feel unsafe again.

Speaker 2 It was both a relief that he was finally sentenced and it was finally kind of over, but then also just another thing to anticipate.

Speaker 1 Is it clear, kind of, how to heal yet?

Speaker 2 Right now, I struggle to see that there's any sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 2 Some days it's easier to see, like, okay, well, I'll move on from this, it'll be okay.

Speaker 2 And then other days, I'm just like,

Speaker 2 you know, it's not ever gonna be over. It's always gonna be something that

Speaker 2 affects me.

Speaker 1 To me, this case stands up as a challenge to every police force in the world that still has one of these open cases set on their desk. This shows that it can be done.

Speaker 1 Each and every single one of the 175 cases we passed over could be competently investigated.

Speaker 1 So, in many cases, I think police forces that have been befuddled or confused or overwhelmed or intimidated by the dark net element.

Speaker 1 Like they think it's a dark net, it's too technical, and what on earth do you do? Well, here's what you do: get the case and take it off the darknet, put it onto WhatsApp, put it onto Western Union.

Speaker 1 You know, create a direct contact. That's how to investigate these cases.
And I do not know why it hasn't been done more often.

Speaker 1 Next time on Kill List, we're in Berlin for a case where the lines between fact and fiction, delusion and reality, become utterly blurred.

Speaker 3 I'm willing to pay 10,000 for killing by stepping for 12,000 if it is made look like a robbery gone wrong.

Speaker 18 I'm still in the area of the potential victim. I'm just around the corner from his house.

Speaker 1 Really not feeling unsafe. I think he he doesn't know anything about the threat.
That's bad. That's really bad news.

Speaker 1 If you like Kill List, you can binge all episodes ad-free right now by joining Wandry Plus in the Wandry app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.

Speaker 1 Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wandry.com/slash survey.

Speaker 1 From Wondery and Novel, this is Kill List.

Speaker 1 Kill List is hosted by me, Carl Miller. The reporter for this episode is Caroline Thornham, and it was produced and written by Anna Sin Field and our series producer, Tom Wright.

Speaker 1 Additional production by Amber Singer. Kill List is also produced by Jacob Tayevich.
Our assistant producer is Amalia Sortland. And our researchers are Megan Oyinka and Lena Chang.

Speaker 1 Additional research from Chris Montero. For Wanderey, our senior producer is Mandy Gorenstein.
Fact Checking by Fendor Fulton.

Speaker 1 Our managing producers are Cherie Houston, Sarah Tobin, and Charlotte Wolfe for Novel. Sarah Mathers is our managing producer and Callum Plus is our senior managing producer for Wandery.

Speaker 1 Original music by Skyler Gerdman and Martin Linebell. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander, Max O'Brien and Caroline Thornham.
Sound design and mixing by Nicholas Alexander.

Speaker 1 Additional Engineering by Daniel Kempson. For Novel, Willard Foxton is Creative Director of Development.
Our executive producers are Sean Glynn, Max O'Brien and Craig Strachan for Novel.

Speaker 1 Executive producers for Wandery are Marshall Louie and Erin O'Flaherty.

Speaker 19 I'm Raza Jaffrey and in the latest season of The Spy Who, we open the file on Morton Storm, the spy who lived inside Al-Qaeda.

Speaker 19 Unfulfilled with his life in a notorious Danish biker gang, Morton Storm is lost. One afternoon, he stumbles into a library looking for answers.
He finds them in the form of a book about Islam.

Speaker 19 The towering ginger-haired Dane doesn't know it yet, but that moment will hurl him into a world of radicalism and see him rise through the ranks of militant Islamist organization, Al-Qaeda, only to suffer a huge crisis of faith.

Speaker 19 He turns from devotee to spy, tasked with rooting out some of al-Qaeda's most feared generals.

Speaker 19 The CIA and MI5 bid for his allegiance as he loses himself in a life of cash-laden suitcases, double crosses, and betrayal.

Speaker 19 Follow the Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can binge the full season of The Spy Who Lived Inside Al-Qaeda, early and ad-free, with Wondery Plus.