#1050: Another Way Not To Cover Alex

Red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert, red alert,

knowledge fight.

Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.

Knowledgefight.com.

It's time to pray.

I have great respect for knowledge fight.

Knowledge fight.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys.

Knowledge fight.

Dan and George.

Knowledge fight.

I need, I need money.

Andy in Kansas.

Andy and Andy.

Stop it.

Andy and Kansas.

Andy in Kansas.

Andy.

Just time to pray.

Andy in Kansas, you're on the airplane for holding us.

Hello, Alex.

I'm a fish in Colorado here, saying I love your room.

Knowledge fight.

Knowledgefight.com.

I love you.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.

I'm Dan.

I'm Jordan.

We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Celine, and talk a little bit about Alex Joe.

Oh, indeed we are, Dan.

Jordan.

Dan.

Jordan.

Quick question for you.

What's up?

What's your bright spot today, buddy?

My bright spot today is that I was getting dressed.

I reached into my old boudoir.

Is that what it is?

A closet thing?

I don't know.

Boudoir, yeah?

Yeah.

Oh, why not?

And pulled out this shirt.

It is an our show shirt.

I think I'm recording an our show show

for the first time

ever, maybe.

Wow, that's from the past.

Well, this is a gift from our Canada show.

A listener threw it from the audience.

And so I was just like, oh, that's fun.

That's serious.

That's great.

So, yeah, I'm wearing our show, a show thing while doing show.

It's meta, baby.

That's very cool.

There's levels.

That's very cool.

So, yeah, what's your bright spot?

My bright spot is

so in preparing to go.

Right,

cleaning the place up.

So when you come back, you know, you don't want to come back to a mess because because then you're just like, ah, now I'm back to place.

Yeah, it's a bummer, right?

And I have this thing that I do and we do now together, wherein something gets, things get regularly cleaned for the most part.

Things get regularly cleaned.

But then something will not get cleaned once, and then it'll be that little pebble.

And then the next time it's like, ah, I'll get to that one because it's more.

And then, and then until eventually it reaches a point where you actively don't want to clean it.

Right.

It's a crisis.

Yeah, or get near it.

Now, I think there's nothing very special about just regular maintenance of your home, you know?

But sometimes when a task is Herculean,

there's a sense of accomplishment upon creating it.

So I'm not saying that, you know, or on completing it.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

I'm not saying that this is a way to live your life.

But there is a good, there's a sense of satisfaction that you get from cleaning up a mess that you've created and left for way too long.

Definitely.

That you would not receive from just clean, from just cleaning up a regular mess.

I don't know.

I think you shouldn't sell short just the small pleasure of cleaning up.

But I get what you mean.

Let's say your stove top or whatever, you let it go for a while and then the feeling of looking at it once you've like, ooh, I'm going to go ahead and take care of this.

On the other side, yeah, that is a great feeling.

Yeah.

What's your specific?

Oh,

we don't need to get into specifics.

Okay.

It could be anywhere.

It could be anything.

It's just a matter of what happens when.

Very much thought that you were

getting too like and that's i cooked the all right i cleaned the oven all right well think of okay so there's cleaning the stables and then there's cleaning stables so dirty that the greeks will never not write legends about it you know

cleaning uh the dog uh bed or something uh it's it's cleaning a toilet okay oh sure yeah it had to be done man i don't understand why you are so precious about this as if like because it's more fun it's more fun to be

listen look i mean what you call it a fuck stick.

I charge you, you know, like, what do you want?

But whenever it's a toilet, there's something very fun about being a demure.

I enjoy it.

Oh, I cannot talk about that room.

Exactly.

Yes, I enjoy.

I don't know why.

It's more fun for me.

Okay.

I don't actually feel any embarrassment.

Okay.

Well, in that case,

I'm not apologizing for drawing it out of you.

Please don't.

Okay.

So, Jordan, today we have an episode to go over.

All right.

We're going to be talking about something

off the beaten path today.

And so we'll get down to that in just a moment.

But first, let's take a little moment to say hello to some wonks.

Ooh, that's a great idea.

So first, I live in Portland and have lived there most of my life.

What is the purpose of me knowing so much about weirdo American fascist propagandists?

Oh, wait.

Poland.

Poland.

Not Portland.

Not Portland.

That makes way more sense.

Way more sense.

You're now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wonk.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Next, I'm the pelican.

Hop inside my mouth if you want to live.

Thank you so much.

You're now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wonk.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

And okay, fine, Patty.

I'll become a wonk already.

Let me know when this airs because I'll probably be three months behind.

Signed, Toaster.

Thank you so much.

You're now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wonk.

Thank you very much.

And we got a technocrat in the mix, Jordan.

So thank you so much to Hobbs, is a Soros globalist who gets all his news from Knowledge Fight.

And he will always be my bright spot.

And he's dying to know what Alex said right after, I don't want to hate black people, but he knows it couldn't be anything good.

Happy birthday, and may you continue to dream of Gene Hackman.

Thank you so much.

You're now a technocrat.

I'm a policy wonk.

Four stars.

Go honk your mother and tell her you're brilliant.

Someone, sodomite, sodomite, sent me a bucket of poop.

Daddy Sharp.

Bomb, bomb, bump, bump, bump.

Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent.

He's a loser, little, little kitty baby.

I don't want to hate black people.

I renounce Jesus Christ.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

So

today, I said, we're going off the beaten path a little bit, and we're going to discuss a little bit of an adventure that I went on.

a little bit accidentally and some of the feelings that came up because of it.

Okay.

So to just start things off, give a little bit of context for how this ball got rolling.

As Alex's bankruptcy case has gone on, I've tried to limit the amount that we cover that subject just for a number of reasons that I hope people understand.

The first is that it largely surrounds issues that I don't know much about and aren't in the lane that I think you and I are suited to cover.

I don't think either of us are particularly good at business, so I think that we're out of our depth when we're trying to get the weeds about the minutiae of business dealings, which is such a huge part of the bankruptcy stuff.

The second and larger part is that different people have different ideas about exactly how this should play out, and the precise details of it, I largely think aren't our business.

Typically, this just isn't our turf, except the parts when Alex very clearly explains his strategy to defraud the courts on his show.

That's where most of our commentary has come in, because Alex is forcing our hand by laying out his schemes with the subtlety of a bond villain.

However, a couple months back, there was a filing in the bankruptcy case that I think helps highlight an important theme that I want to discuss.

On March 17th, a lawyer from Ohio named Robert Wynne Young filed a motion in the case to appear pro-hoc vice.

This is a request that's made when a person who's licensed to practice law in one place wants to act as a lawyer in another place, and the court allows it for a limited time.

Young isn't allowed to just be a lawyer in Connecticut now, but for the purposes of this case, he's in good standing as a lawyer, so the court has accepted his accreditation to to appear as if he were

licensed in Connecticut.

His motion for Prohawk Viche was approved, and the next day he filed a huge motion to intervene actively in the case and requested that the whole process be put on hold so he could present evidence that the judgment against Alex was fraudulent and thus the bankruptcy was based on fraudulent debts that Alex could owe.

I'm in.

Right.

Initially, your thought might be that this is someone trying to defend Alex, and this was just another stalling tactic from the InfoWars side, but it's actually a little bit crazier.

In his filing, Young lays out a dumb theory that Alex and his lawyers intentionally threw the case as part of an elaborate conspiracy where he was working with the other side's lawyers in a plot to destroy the First and Second Amendments.

His basis for the argument is that Alex's lawyers never tried to get the initial case to be heard in federal court, specifically by asserting federal question jurisdiction.

They had tried to move the case to federal court, but only through claiming diversity jurisdiction, and that's the big tell that they were taking a dive.

Diversity jurisdiction is the thing someone can claim when they're being sued in another state's court by a person who lives in that state.

So in this case, Alex is from Texas and he's being sued in Connecticut state court by Connecticut plaintiffs.

So claiming diversity jurisdiction could be a way for him as a defendant to make sure that he's not going to have a local jury or court be biased against him as an out-of-state person.

Conversely, federal question jurisdiction is something that can be claimed when an action at the root of a case is something that's going to involve the Constitution or federal laws.

Young's claim is that this case involves the First Amendment, but the state court can't handle constitutional questions, so the fact that Alex didn't remove the case to federal court shows that he was throwing the case.

The issue is that the federal question jurisdiction is something that the plaintiffs can assert, not the defendant.

As the defendant, it's not Alex's place to claim federal question jurisdiction.

The only thing that he can do is assert constitutional reasons as a protection from the claims being made by the plaintiffs.

It's considered established law that the likelihood of a defendant using the Constitution or federal law as a defense, that's not enough for a defendant to claim federal question jurisdiction.

So even if the plaintiffs in this case would have wanted to do that, like say, hey, our argument is going to be rebutted by Alex saying this is First Amendment stuff, even that isn't enough to make this something subject to federal question jurisdiction.

It would have to be the plaintiffs saying the root of what we're saying is that our First Amendment right was violated in this case.

Then it would become something that's relevant for federal question jurisdiction.

Sure.

Young's argument is that because Alex didn't do this thing that he couldn't have done, he threw the case and it was all a plot in order to make sure that the claims about Sandy Hook would never have to be decided in court.

From the beginning, Alex was in on this, defaming these families because he knew to do so would eventually lead to a lawsuit which he would throw and would then destroy the First and Second Amendments.

Suffice it to say that Young is a mess, but because I was really curious about where he was coming from, I decided to watch his entire almost two-hour PowerPoint presentation that he did with some channel on Rumble hosted by a guy who calls himself Victor Hugo.

Great.

It was all pretty dumb, and most of the points that he brought up could be explained explained pretty easily by him engaging in what seems like very obvious misunderstandings.

But through the watching of this video, I was struck by something I realized that we haven't spent much time covering, which is the criticism of Alex that comes from the conspiracy side of the world.

There was something about how they were talking about Alex that interested me, probably because it was dumb, but also because when I started this show, it was partially because of this kind of vapid, conspiracy-based conspiracy of Alex, and how that was the only thing that seemed to exist.

No one

criticized him except for these kinds of conspiracy criticisms.

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

I was reminded of some feeling that I hadn't really engaged with in years, and it led me to exploring this Victor Hugo guy's channel a little bit more.

I'll just peel off the band-aid here and say that he's a huge anti-Semite, and he has an obsession with saying that he's, quote, noticing things.

Sure.

Noticing is a big anti-Semitic dog whistle and buzzword.

It's meant to say, like, I'm noticing that the Jews run the world, but you don't have to say that explicitly.

You know, you can kind of say, I'm noticing things.

I'm noticing things.

Yeah.

For instance, let's say there's a big business guy like Larry Fink, and you want to talk about how he's Jewish, but you're not sure if the person you're talking to is on the same bigot wave as you.

So you say, I noticed something about that guy.

And if the person gets what you're saying, then you get to talk freely, you know?

You get to just get into the weeds.

All right.

It's a secret handshake.

Yeah, but if they don't recognize what you're saying, then you haven't shown too many of your cards and you can't, like, there's still plausible deniability.

I like that.

I think that's good.

That's what noticing is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stay in your own home.

I can't force you to not do this.

Obviously, we live in this world.

I can't do that.

Well, sure.

I mean, the flip side of it is that it makes it way easier for these folks to communicate in ways that are spreading these, you know, Nazi-ish ideas in plain view that people, you know, it's the same thing that we talk about a lot with crypto language.

Oh, sure.

I mean, I just, just, you know, just keep them in the same place.

Keep them in a little place.

Keep them in a under a dome.

Sure.

Keep them in a hole.

Anyway, Hugo, Victor Hugo, he started the show called The Noticing.

And on the first or second episode of it, depending on if you trust the title or the content of the episode, Victor Hugo had Robert Wynne Young on as a guest to discuss the motion to reopen this Sandy Hook case through the bankruptcy court.

Sure.

In order to unveil this great

cover-up that had gone on.

That'll do it.

It's sort of interesting, maybe,

I guess.

But when I watched the interview, the thing that stuck out most to me was Hugo's co-host.

It's a guy named Dustin Nemos, who he introduces here in this clip.

The noticing.

Dustin Nemos, is there anything you'd like to share with the audience on this premiere episode about the Nemos News Network?

Well, first of all, Victor, welcome to the News Network.

I appreciate the backup.

We needed help, and your work and content has been, you know, second to none.

I mean, you're out there noticing, and I appreciate it, and I hope others do as well.

You know, with that said, formalities aside, this particular episode is very important, and what Wen Young is doing is very important because Alex Jones calls himself the most censored man alive, calls himself the tip of the spear, and in fact, is just another controlled opposition Jewish asset, probably Mossad Ran or CIA Ran, and we know he's connected to the CIA, and he's out there giving us 80%, 90% truth, and then making us look crazy, stupid, or even criminal now with the other 10%.

And what he's doing by throwing this case and, you know, basically refusing to call it a First Amendment issue, he is essentially setting us all up to be either afraid of speaking the truth or possibly even have a precedent to actually come after us in the courts for speaking the truth.

So Alex Jones is not the tip of the spear.

He's not the most censored man alive.

He's one of the greatest threats to free speech that we have.

So suffice it to say that Dustin is another anti-Semite who actually believes that Jewish people aren't human.

And he frequently advocates for what he calls the Obadiah 18 solution, which is a reference to Bible verse.

That reads, quote, and the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, for they shall kindle in them and devour them, and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau, for the Lord hath spoken it.

Sure, sure.

Basically, he's a proponent of exterminating all Jewish people.

Yeah, you can dress it up however you like with literary references

if you must.

Sure, and you could use that fun dog whistley thing of like Obadiah 18.

Yeah, it's always fun.

Yeah.

Dustin has some really bad positions, but he doesn't shy away from it at all, other than using these phrasing games like noticing and Obadiah and

that kind of stuff.

So I saw this guy as like, this guy is interesting to me, and I don't know why.

Obviously, they're weirdos talking about Alex Jones, which is, you know, somewhat similar to what I do.

Yeah.

Just a different version.

You know, there's

what I feel this from a lot of people.

This, like, there's a social pressure.

And I think a lot of the times what people are reacting to in this kind of like, oh, the tone police kind of stuff is the anxiety you have towards what if I say something and I discover after the fact that this person is very clearly personally offended by it and I didn't mean it in a personally offensive way, right?

And so I understand why people feel that way.

I don't often feel that way because my first thought when that guy started talking was, if this guy was talking to me, I would say,

you sound like a psycho.

You got to deal with whatever that is before we can continue this conversation.

And then people would be anxious because they'd be like, what if he says, oh, this is how I was born to talk like that?

Then I would say, then you need to change it or not be on this mic.

Like, that's how we do things here.

You know, it's not even about like how he's talking in a way of like, hey, people have different communication styles.

Sure.

You know, it's not some kind of a judgment that you're making about

like something.

He could be neurodivergent or something.

No, no, no.

It is appropriate for, it is inappropriate for now.

Yeah.

But also it's, hey, you're doing a lot of noticing.

You got to stop doing that.

That kind of stuff.

You got to stop doing that.

It's like the way you're communicating is meant to convey something that is far beyond the polite way that you're pretending to talk.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, there's,

I think a lot of people took that, you know, right speech leads to right action to mean like the meaning of your speech leads to the meaning of your action, right?

Maybe just, you know, you're talking wrong.

Talk different, maybe you'll do different.

Who knows?

Maybe.

Yeah.

So Dustin goes on to talk about how Alex will never say it's the Jews.

Yeah.

And this is, you know, a large part, I think, of his criticism of Alex.

Sure.

Is he won't he won't point out Jewish people.

You know, others have pointed this out, but when what you're doing is, you know, it's taking it to the level of legal proofs to show this in a court setting.

Now, I don't know that they're ever going to get in with the courts.

They're probably going to cover this up at some point.

But by then, it's too late.

We'll have gotten the information out.

And Alex Jones is

falling.

He's almost done.

He's no longer trusted.

His credibility is shot since October 7th.

He couldn't figure out bombing babies was bad or that it was even happening for a long, long time.

I definitely, you know, I am curious as to how this is going to go in the courts and what his response is going to be.

But I am going to share my

website here if I can pull it back up.

I have too many options to share, so that's kind of confusing.

So I have a post on Alex Jones.

I mentioned it earlier.

It's called Alex Neverdew Jones.

Limited Hangout Massage Gatekeeper.

Can you guys see this screen?

Yes.

Just checking.

So I'm not going to make everybody go through all this, but I've been working on it earlier to make it a little bit neater.

I have a documentary where I basically show that he will never, ever expose Jews for anything.

He always, you know, Nazis, Chikoms, globalists, whatever, anything but the Jews.

That's why I called him never Jew Jones.

And, you know, obviously that's a side topic, but in the case of modern politics, people in my audience know, at least in my opinion, it's them behind everything every single time.

I think we got why you called him that.

You didn't need to explain the nickname.

Very, very simple and direct.

Unless you mishear it and you're like, neverjo.

Is that like, is that African?

Never jewel is that?

No?

Nope.

Never mind.

Okay.

All right.

So

I stumbled upon this because I was looking into this weirdo who had inserted himself into Alex's bankruptcy case in a weird way that kind of works to Alex's advantage because it's crazy.

It's never going to work.

No.

And it's just going to stall things.

And that's all Alex wants.

He wants to just stall things.

And so there was a part of me that's like, what?

Who is this?

What's going on?

And him being on this show with these anti-Semites, I was like, huh, that's interesting.

And as I was watching it, I was like, Dustin is almost a perfect embodiment of the thing that was unsatisfying eight years ago

when I started asking a lot of these questions and exploring Alex in a more serious way.

And that felt weird.

Yeah.

And then I was like, I'm continuing to watch this.

And now I'm watching more videos of Dustin.

Oh, God.

And I was like, why?

And it dawned on me that you'll see.

Okay.

There's a bunch of things that just didn't seem right with the case

and people are noticing, so to speak.

And then, of course, the other things that he's done as well down here with his associations, his connections to the CIA, his refusal to call out atrocities,

like, you know, war crimes and ethnic cleansing of Gaza and such.

Basically, this post has everything you need if you want to talk about Alex Jones.

I don't want to, like, go through the whole thing because it's quite long.

I've been dealing with him for many years.

He hates me.

I'm Voldemort at Infowars, the guy who must not be named.

He's threatened to kill me on air before.

All of it's on video.

Alex Jones does not like me very much.

But that's because I've been exposing him for about eight years now.

And before that, I watched him growing up.

I mean, I know this guy as well as he knows himself.

I've watched him since he was a young person and I was a child.

You know, 16 years basically watching InfoWars, growing up on InfoWars, seeing how Alex Jones operates and seeing when he let us down.

I hate to say this because Dustin sucks a lot, but I would be lying if I didn't see a bit of a funhouse mirror of myself in it.

Yeah, yeah.

This is fucked up.

Yeah, that's very weird.

That's weird.

We both entered into examining Alex Jones with a similar question.

Namely, there's something wrong here, but what is it?

What's going on?

If you watch Alex's show with anything more than a passive eye, you can't help but notice that his actions do not match the character he's presenting himself as.

And even more troublingly, his positions on stuff seem to shift more than it should.

He presents his beliefs as black and white, where he's working with God to fight the devil, but then, on a day-to-day basis, he often engages with news like someone who believes in gray areas and lesser of two evils ideas.

It doesn't make sense as a show, which is fine if people are just listening to it for an emotional fix.

Alex performs the outbursts that are cathartic for the audience, and he insists that his outbursts are rooted in academic research and divinely granted wisdom, so it's unquestionably correct, based on earthly and heavenly standards.

If that's all you want, then his contradictions don't really matter, and you might not even see them.

But if you pay closer attention, his show will bother you.

It'll start to come to your attention that things that you were being sold last year aren't so important anymore.

You'll begin to see that this disaster that the globalists are about to trigger is the same thing Alex was telling you they were going to trigger two years ago, which never happened.

To steal Dustin's favorite word, you'll start noticing things.

And that's a split in the road for that person.

That's what you come upon.

There's just, you have to make a choice.

Because they're able to put their finger on this nebulous thing that makes Alex's show confusing, this person who confronts that fork in the road, they can't enjoy it in the same passive way that the bulk of the audience probably does.

The itch of what's going on here?

What the fuck is wrong?

That doesn't go away.

So if they really are asking questions, then this fork in the road appears and they have to choose a path.

As I see it, there are three paths that split from this road.

The first is the path of just accepting what the mainstream media would tell you about Alex.

You can find plenty of clips about him on sites like Media Matters or the SPLC that are fairly accurate most of the time, but they lose a lot of context and they present him a bit too dimensionally and a little cartoony.

It's a generally correct picture of Alex that gets painted, like he's an angry idiot, he's dangerous, etc., but it also fails to paint the whole picture.

This is what I would describe as the pacifying off-ramp for conspiracy theories.

You can go that path.

It's possible.

The second path is what I've attempted to do with this show.

I took Alex at his word and then assessed the claims he was making.

If he was correct, I would be an info warrior.

If he was wrong, I would seek to understand what he was wrong about and the context that the errors were made in.

Why do you reach the conclusion that you reach based on this misuse of information or this fake thing?

When primary source documents are provided, I would go find them, read them, and then read up on what was going on around the time of that document's creation.

What was this document made in response to?

Who was creating this document?

And most importantly, is this a fake document?

I would call this path a risky, open-hearted path.

You might end up learning that Alex Jones is right about stuff.

Sure.

And you have to make peace with that if you're going to walk down this road.

The third path is the one that Dustin is on.

He believed Alex and the conspiracies that Alex was selling him very deeply for that 16 years that he was listening to Alex's show.

So when the fork in the road came, the only way he could engage with Alex was through the internal language of conspiracy.

He was able to correctly assess that Alex was lying, but it was too threatening to the worldview that he'd created to ask if Alex had been lying about the fundamental conspiracy shit that Dustin had used to understand the world over that time.

The conspiracy worldview must remain intact, but the goal is to now find a way to incorporate an evil version of Alex into that world.

He's a limited hangout.

He works for the Jews.

It's a perfectly simple solution to a problem that, if not resolved simply, could lead to an identity crisis.

This third path is the radicalization path, and it's why a lot of folks who are more extreme than Alex, they still consider his existence a net positive.

Over time, overt neo-Nazis and the like, they knew that a lot of their ranks came from people who were, quote, woken up by Alex, and eventually they grew past him.

They recognized Alex as a first step in the initiation process that some people might never get past, but it also provided a much larger potential recruitment pool than they would have had access to otherwise.

A regular everyday person is not going to gravitate towards media that just screams that Jews are inhuman monsters, but they might dip their toe into Infowars.

If they get into InfoWars, it becomes possible for the neo-Nazis to then start asking them if they notice anything about Alex and plant seeds that draw them closer to the Jews are inhuman monsters type of shows.

Frankly, Dustin's existence is kind of evidence of this.

Without Alex's influence, it's likely that he wouldn't have been in a place where his disillusion with Alex as a white supremacist figure would have led him to create the kind of media that he does.

His explicit bigotry grew out of becoming tired with Alex's cagey bigotry.

So what's the point I'm driving at here?

Essentially, the thing that I want to stress is that the danger of what Alex does exists on the surface level.

And I believe we, you know, covered that in terms of the LA protests recently.

Sure.

But it also has a tendency toward funneling people down these sorts of paths and creating people like this.

Alex is full of shit, and he engages with information in a way that's full of shit.

His lies, you know, in his misinterpretations of data points, he does it in a way to serve

furthering whatever storyline he's using to keep the audience interested and buying pills.

That's a large part of his business operation.

Yeah.

He's also speaking to something very real, which is an underlying feeling that people have that something about society isn't right.

Load-bearing pieces of how our country operates are designed in systemic ways to hurt certain people and benefit others.

Most people feel this way on some level or another.

Some are able to suppress it and say, yeah, it's the cost of living in the modern world, but others try to seek out explanations for why things are the way they are.

Some of that exploration, it leads people to advocacy and political organizing, but a lot of it also goes to more entertainment-based shit.

For decades, Alex was the leading figure of the media space that catered to the people who wanted to find an answer for why the world wasn't how they felt it should be, and he provided easy answers.

It's the globalists.

It's the globalists.

It's fucking simple.

It's complicated, but it's simple.

It's a perfect and undefinable explanation for why things feel wrong, and it's one you can superimpose onto pretty much any story you want.

If there's a new villain that pops up in the world, It's easy to just say they're a globalist.

If someone who was previously a hero betrays the Patriots, then it's easy to just say that they were a secret globalist all along, or that the globalists got to them.

Alex creates this ecosystem because it's where he can keep people as customers, so long as they don't get too inquisitive.

If they start noticing how his narratives are inconsistent and his actions over time are pretty suspicious, it has a tendency to lead them right to that fork in the road, and one of the paths is way more likely to be chosen than the others.

That third path, the radicalization path, is far more likely to be taken because it's easy.

Taking the first path requires that you blindly accept the information being given to you by sources that you previously considered evil, like media matters.

You're not going to just immediately adopt, oh, they're actually great.

I love them now.

Taking the second path requires you to assess information from a dispassionate position and risk reaching conclusions that the worldview that you adopted is a fraud.

Essentially, each of these options demand that you disrupt the way that you've engaged with the world up to that point, whereas the third option just requires you shift around a couple of your opinions, while allowing you to maintain the same lazy, easy worldview that drew you into InfoWars in the first place.

So, I was watching another Victor Hugo interview with Justin Nemos, and I found one moment that I thought really illustrated this point incredibly well.

I mean, I've talked about all these different persecutions, and I mentioned earlier that they are exempt from military service.

Let me share that one with you, because they now want us to go die for their wars again.

I will not die for the Jews, I will not fight for the Jews, but they are actually exempt from military service.

Here's the document: it's found at NARA National Archives and Records Administration.

I've got a link there and everything, but just pulling that up so you guys can see it here, make it a little bit bigger.

It's got the funny picture on it and everything.

But this is a real Central Committee Anti-Defamation League record where they're basically saying that Jews will be exempt from the wars.

It was unclassified.

We can all see it now for ourselves.

And it says, you know, stupid Goyam nations.

That's what they call us.

It says they support the draft, but they don't want it for them.

So this is, you know, it says, quote, we can repeat our triumphs of 1918 if we maintain our united front and the dumb Goyum will fight while we profit.

End quote.

So Dustin says there's a funny picture there.

And that, of course, is a racist cartoon of a Jewish man that you see on all the cool racist sites like Twitter.

And formerly, it was mostly in places like message boards and Stormfront, but now Twitter, because the world's cool.

So this cartoon is next to a screenshot of a document, which is said to be from the National Archives and Records Administration.

It provides a link to a website called IsraelLobby.org, which takes you to the document.

This is a website run by a group called the Institute for Research Middle East Policy, which houses a large collection of documents that have been released due to declassification or FOIA requests about groups like the ADL.

The link that Dustin's meme goes to is a 126-page PDF of documents from the FBI.

Most of this PDF is a list of contacts inside the ADL that were provided by the group secretary to the FBI with the assurance that these contacts would cooperate with the FBI in investigations that they might be doing.

This was a letter from September 1940, so the mind reels about what the context of their cooperation might have been during World War II.

After a long list of contacts is some stray pages, one of which serves as the basis for the meme that Dustin is discussing.

This is headlined, quote, special notice to all Jews, exclamation point.

It starts, quote, the Central Conference of American Rabbis at the 47th Annual Conference held in New York on June 26, 1937, declared for exemption of Jews from military service in accordance with the highest interpretation of Judaism.

The document goes on, quote, Why should we, the only truly international people, be concerned with the mutable interests of stupid Goyam nations?

We must do everything everything in our power to help the great president who has helped us so greatly in establishing control.

Support the draft law when it is presented to the American people.

Support England and France, for they are fighting Judah's greatest enemy, the Goyam German state.

This was the Conference of American Rabbis, but they were, you know, if they were going to be able to pull this off, they need, you know, a little bit extra push,

which is convenient, because in the document it says, quote, powerful Jews will be in all draft boards, and Jewish physicians will protect you from military service.

Arrangements are already made to exempt you in case religious exemptions cannot be prepared in time.

You are warned to renounce, abjure, repudiate, and deny any of this information if questioned by Gentiles, even under oath, as outlined in the Talmud and justified for the preservation of our race.

It is so nice whenever the people I'm being racist to

just do exactly what I would want them to do.

Man, it's convenient.

So convenient, because it's almost like it completely justifies my racism.

Because otherwise, if you stop and think about it, racism is unjustifiable.

There's really nothing you can do except in very specific circumstances,

such as this one right here.

Yeah, yeah, when your racism is

justified by cartoonish villainry.

Right.

Now, see, now I've always hated racists because I thought racism was bad, but I realize it's just because their reasons were bad.

Right.

They didn't have anything like this.

Come on.

Suede.

Physiognomy?

Of course that's bullshit, but this is real.

It's a document.

This is how you know it.

They had to sign it.

So, this is a pretty obviously fake document because it's written like how a Nazi would imagine a secret cabal of Jews to speak.

Yeah.

A real document like this would be able to control the urge to editorialize about stupid Goyam nations.

But a fake document created to stoke hate and stir up feelings and emotions, it would lean into that kind of thing.

Also, a real document like this would probably not have printed at the end, don't say shit about this.

I mean, if you must lie about this.

The most, the most, if anything like this were real, the most evidence you could have would be something so oblique as to be like, hey, do you have the name of the guy that got onto that voting board?

Like, that would be it.

Like, that would be the only evidence that there is any kind of thing because you do this shit face to face.

You don't write it down.

Yeah.

You don't write it down.

It's like that classic joke, Tammy Pascatelli joke.

It's like talking to her on the phone with her dad.

It's like, I shot a pilot.

Don't say that over the phone.

This would be like, lie to the Gentiles about it.

Don't say that in the writing.

So further supporting evidence that this is a fake document is that the 47th Conference of American Rabbis was held in 1936, not 1937.

And it took place in Cape May, New Jersey, not in New York.

These are basic details that an authentic document, they would not get that wrong.

And these are often the fingerprints of propaganda around this time that's designed to demonize Jewish people.

This is an obviously fake document, and as it turns out, the reason that it was in the FBI's files that got released is because someone in Cleveland had found this flyer at their workplace and reported it to the FBI in 1943.

You might notice that that date also in the middle of World War II when Nazi propaganda was

popular even in the United States.

Very popular in the United States.

So, this leads me to my point.

By taking the metaphorical third path, a person like Dustin is able to incorporate the new information that Alex is a lying piece of shit, but still maintain the freedom to play the same games with information that he enjoyed doing while he was an InfoWars fan.

All of the taking shortcuts and ignoring the fact that your sources are transparently fake because they make the point you want to arrive at, you can still do all of that stuff.

Because fundamentally, all you've done is replace the target of your escapist explanations.

Alex would tell you that it's all the globalists, but now you just get to say it's all the Jews.

You've added another layer on the onion.

Yeah, you really haven't.

You haven't replaced the target.

You've just, it's the same thing because it's not real.

It's as real as the globalists.

You've replaced the target

in a sense.

You've squinted your eyes a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, like, the problem is, the problem with both of them is at the end.

Okay, so say you do it.

Say you get rid of all the Jews.

You can't because five years later, somebody would be like, I'm Jewish, and you have to say that that's okay because that's how it works you can never get rid of that you can never get rid of the globalists you can never get rid of because it's not real it's all in your head it's all made up and and Dustin does spend a lot of time talking about crypto Jews and so like exactly there will never be an end right there's just who I'm feeling like is the problem right now because it's really like my boss right but that this is essentially what I mean by changing the target exactly is is like it's not really a change but it is an aesthetic change and a little bit of a shift that allows you to maintain exactly what you were doing before.

I'm hanging out with different people now.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This guy's an asshole.

I'm hanging out with these guys over here.

You suck.

Yeah.

Going down this third path is a way to challenge your conclusion.

i.e., Alex Jones is a good guy truth-teller, while never needing to challenge the way you arrived at your conclusions to begin with.

I.e., Alex Jones coached me to mishandle information in strategic ways that benefited him, and now I'm starting to see through.

People like this aren't threatening to Alex, they're just kind of annoying.

They make him feel like people think he's a poser and they have a tendency to chip away a little bit at Alex's audience, but these folks don't fundamentally represent any risk to the conspiratorial worldview that Alex exploits and profits from.

I think the reason that I was able to approach the fork in the road differently and go down this second path, it's not because I have some intellectual or moral character that's better than anyone, or even Dustin.

It's because I didn't inherently believe Alex's shit to begin with.

So, whatever conclusion I arrived at, it wasn't personally threatening.

I liked conspiracy theories, and I fucked around with acting like they could be real when I was out drinking with friends, but I didn't really believe that 9-11 was an inside job.

For someone in the position of an Infowars fan, that calculus is totally different.

And in order to reach the very simple conclusion that Alex Jones is just a dumb liar, you have to give up a much larger framework of things that you believe and have believed for a long time.

It's so much easier to just create a new conspiracy on top of the old one, and it pretty much always goes in the direction of discovering that Alex works for the Jews.

So for Dustin, I fucking hate him, and I think he represents a disgusting ideology.

So fuck him.

It probably felt like I was going to get to the end of this and express some kind of empathy for this guy and encourage understanding, and maybe in another time I might have done that.

But I'm not really interested in that anymore.

I get why he's gone down the roads that he's gone down, and I do think the deck was stacked against him, but that doesn't excuse becoming a Nazi.

Understanding how Alex's media strategy leads people to this kind of place is important, and placing an amount of blame on Alex is correct.

These are fucking adults.

I'm not going to infantilize these dipshits.

Probably wise.

So fuck this guy and fuck this Nazi bullshit.

Yeah.

But

I find it very interesting

to see this guy who also does have a little bit of a mirror of myself.

Sure, sure.

And I think that that is the, I think that a lot of that is the fundamental difference.

I asked these questions sincerely about what Alex is doing.

He thought he was,

but he was unwilling to give up the framework that he entered the question with.

Well, I mean...

The thing about that, though, is that you then, having noticed that, you haven't dealt with what that would mean to then apply to you.

You've noticed that you did not enter with the same framework, which is why you are not ending in the same place because he's unable to let go of his framework.

You haven't analyzed whether or not you've been able to let go of your own framework.

Or if you maintained it.

I have let go of a lot of pieces of things that were fairly important to me prior to

examining a lot of these prior assumptions that I had about the world.

Sure.

A lot of things that I believed

about

power.

A lot of things that I believed about how the media worked.

There was much more naivete than I had

10, 12 years ago.

Sure.

Let's say.

When we were still friends with the SPLC.

But I think a lot of it came from a place of not really caring that much.

Sure.

As opposed to a place where I'm like,

I actually thought that everything in society is built for everyone's best interest.

Right, right, right, right.

I didn't have like a position that everything Alex is saying is not true.

Let's say.

I just didn't really care that much.

And so the examination, the first step of it is really the risky part.

Sure.

Because I could take that step and find, oh, shit, Alex is right.

Or I could take that step and find a lot of this stuff that I previously took for granted or just didn't really care about that requires an updating of how I see things.

Yeah.

Whereas there is no risk in just being like, oh, it's the Jews.

There's no risk.

No.

No, there isn't.

People aren't going to like you, but they didn't like you when you were an info warrior either.

Yeah.

People already thought your beliefs were weird and not fun to be around most of the time.

So you're not really socially ostracizing yourself that much more by being like, oh, I hate Jews now.

Yeah.

You limit your pool of people you can hang around with a little bit, but it's not much.

You know, it reminds me,

I think this is a, I brought it up too many times, but it's becoming more relevant because it's so wrong about everything.

But that book about brainwashing, right?

Like,

in another way of looking at it, you could describe any act of learning information that is not the same information that you currently hold, but would occupy the same space in your brain as being a painful process of removing the old information and then putting the new information in its place.

Right.

So that could be what we describe as brainwashing or just regular learning.

You know, it is a process of risk, as you put it, to go, well, if this is wrong, I have to remove it entirely.

I can no longer have this piece of information and it must be replaced by information that could then alter everything else that I know.

And that's dangerous.

Sure.

And it's not purifying.

Like, it's not.

No, it doesn't feel better.

But also, it feels exactly the same.

Doing that about one question

doesn't mean that you've done that process for everything.

There are blind spots and shit that you don't even know you need to re-examine

that

you don't become aware of it until it gets brought up.

Sure.

It's a constant process of re-examining and taking the risk of opening up that part of your brain to like, hey, I might learn something new that's a little bit threatening to

where I was comfortable.

Totally.

And I think that what this represents is the resistance to doing that.

I think that this is,

as opposed to taking that risk, you're,

I don't know, putting a hat on it.

Sure.

You know, you're just like, oh, no, I'm a cool guy.

I'm a cool, different kind of guy now, as opposed to really fundamentally examining.

If Alex is full of shit,

what does that mean for the past 16 years that you've been watching the show?

Sure.

What all do you need to clean up?

Because he just works for the Jews.

Doesn't do it.

No.

It doesn't clean up the clutter of that 16 years.

You think it does, but that's just because you put a hat on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because, yeah,

you got to go back.

You got to dig.

Because it's a root problem.

You know?

Yes.

It is a.

It is a full-on, whatever information that you are talking about right now is not the problem that needs to be rooted out.

It's a bud.

And that's why I think the handling of that Jewish people don't have to join the army thing is so illustrative of what the digging that's not being done is.

Alex uses sources the exact same way.

Yep.

Total bullshit.

Out of context.

It means nothing.

This is just something that is used to prop up whatever the storyline he's telling is.

Dustin is still still doing the exact same thing using this source to prop up the storyline that he wants to tell, which is Jews are behind everything that's evil and wrong.

So the digging would probably be indicated by him not using a shortcut like this, not cheating, not using a source in an InfoWarsy fashion.

Sure.

And to me, that

I think is a marker of

non-effort.

Sure.

I mean,

I suppose non-effort in the direction that you're angling for.

I think effort is not necessarily the same thing.

You know, like, I'm sure he does stuff.

Sure.

Oh, yeah.

Ton of videos on his rumble channel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

No, I mean, but I mean, it is interesting to go back and like to listen to something that he said in the context that he said it, which is like, oh, he hates me.

He's threatened by me.

And then, like, because I stop and think about it.

And of course, he's not.

But also, he's not threatened by the SPLC or anything.

And then it's exactly like, it's exactly like power.

The people that have it, you don't need to mention them.

The reason the people he's threatened by, he will never speak our name.

Sure, but I know I'm not interested in having a pissing contest with this Nazi.

No, no, no.

I'm not saying that, like, oh, you think he's afraid of you, but he's really afraid of me.

I have no interest in that.

Sure.

I don't think that we are actually even threatening to Alex.

We've been around for eight years and it has only affected him in infinitesimal ways.

Right.

I think that second path, the awareness of that, and the awareness that this third path is bullshit, that's threatening to Alex.

And it's also threatening to this guy.

Right.

Yeah.

Because they operate and profit off the exact same

abuse of information.

The same lazy shortcuts and and bullshit nonsense.

That's what's threatening.

It's threatening to both of them.

Right.

Sure.

I'm just thinking about, as far as the root analogy is concerned,

we are what it looks like to try and get to the root and not just deal with shit.

Like when you describe, oh, this is how Alex uses sources.

He made up complete bullshit.

It doesn't mean anything.

And it fits whatever story they're trying to tell.

That's also what is being told about Alex.

That's also the media talking about Alex.

Bullshit, nonsense, doesn't mean anything, and using it to tell the story they want to tell.

Sometimes Alex has remembered that he's apologized.

Sometimes he's not doing it.

You know, like it is a matter of narrative for them, what is being crafted.

And again, it's in a similar way.

If they actually go down and try and get to the root of what they're doing, they'd have to change.

I think, yes, in much different ways.

Yes.

In much different ways, but that's, but again, it's the root.

It has to be the root.

And if you're not dealing with that there,

then this is where we are.

Yeah.

I agree but disagree with your assessment of the root being the same.

Sure.

Because I think that both roots of like bullshit media, like Alex and this guy, and mainstream media, both have problems, but they're different problems.

Sure.

The things that you would want to address about them, you can't use the same pesticide on both in order to protect the roots.

Right, right.

Well, it's a different fungus.

Let me try and alter the point of view that I'm trying to express here.

Okay.

It is to me that

Alex exists as the problem in the media.

Alex is the media's problem.

The media exists, and where it fails, Alex grows.

That's where, so the two of them are are not, I don't think they're the same, but they are a system that works together.

An ascendant, useful, accurate media by its nature pushes Alex down.

Bullshit allows Alex to flourish.

Right, right.

And I think that if I could, I'll piggyback on what you're saying a little bit, I think.

And that is the point that I was making about Alex, like, he is touching on something that's fundamentally true, which is the world is disorganized.

Right.

The The world is not organized in a way that works to all of our benefits.

Right.

And there are intentional choices that entrench power and entrench

going along to get along.

Exactly.

And

because of that, Alex is able to provide a bullshit answer that's satisfying and easy for people.

Sure.

And that's what he offers.

And he can only offer that because the media can't offer a good answer.

Right.

Partially because the truth and the reality of the world is deeply complex.

And there is no headline that you're going to be able, yeah.

I'm not saying nearly the whole thing.

And partially because a lot of those media companies, they have their vested interest in the maintenance of that power and access to power.

So, like, yeah, obviously that is probably a much larger piece.

But even if that wasn't the case, you and I couldn't boil down something into a headline that is gonna is gonna explain why the world is complicated.

No, so even in perfect uh situations, there's still a market share that Alex could have, um, but

uh, we're out of balance, we are out of balance, it's a Koyanoscotzi situation.

It is, it is, of, of all the things, you don't have to be a specialist in balance to look out and go, like, if there was a balance, this ain't it.

You don't need to be Rodney Mullen to understand that this isn't balanced.

We're not doing that.

I don't want to do that.

Just because it's your turn, you don't want to do it?

You can't come up with another example of someone who balances?

I don't.

I just got so many gymnasts in my head, and now I'm like, you don't need to be Miles 2 to get, and it's just not going to, it's not going to go far.

You don't have to be that guy from the documentary about the tight wire between the buildings.

Was it the Twin Towers?

Shit.

Love on a Wire.

Was that the movie?

No, I think it's Man on Wire.

Man on Wire.

Man on Wire.

He had good balance.

He did.

Or did.

Wait, did he die?

I don't think so.

Okay.

There's one now that's like roof crawlers, rooftopers, a love story, which is like,

but then

everybody dies.

Like, they all fall.

In real life, people climb up high things.

Yeah, yeah.

And they're like, ah, look at me.

And then they post it on Instagram, but sometimes they fall.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a risk.

Yep.

I think that I know that I saw a man on wire,

and I think I would remember if it ended with him falling.

I feel like that would be a huge memory.

But who knows?

Exactly.

Anyway,

I thought

that this was interesting.

It was a subject.

And it's, you know, something we can pre-record to have while you're going on vacation.

But also,

here's the thing that I found

notable about the entire experience.

I started down this road because of Win Young and this filing in Alex's bankruptcy case.

It's led me to this anti-Semitic channel and this guy who is a distorted reflection in some ways of the path that I've gone down with my life.

I understand

what this guy's doing, you know, like in terms of the methodology of misusing information and all this shit.

Sure.

The disillusion with conspiracy leading to adding a layer of conspiracy on top of it.

And I realized the deeper and the further that I went down watching this guy, it's exactly the same thing with Win Young.

Like,

there's a simple explanation for Alex's court stuff.

Yeah.

That's he's a criminal.

He's doing illegal shit.

That does tend to, it does tend to solve things whenever you really cut to the quick.

He was hoping to kick the can down the road to make it too expensive for these people to continue suing him.

It's not like

Sandy Hook didn't happen and he's part of an elaborate conspiracy in order to make sure that he loses this case in order to make sure that no one ever has to know that Sandy Hook was fake.

Like, this is

your conspiracy hit a dead end.

There's a very simple explanation for it.

And instead of challenging what led you to the stupid conspiracy to begin with, you've added a new layer on top of it.

And Wynne's doing that, Dustin's doing that, and that's

it's an it's an interesting inverse.

I don't know if this is a true story, or maybe it's apocryphal, but it's the story of Richard Feynman.

Some lady's like, ah, the world's on top of a turtle.

And he's like, oh, well, but what's underneath that?

And she's like, it's on top of a bigger turtle.

And he's like, oh, what's underneath that?

You know, you do the thing.

And eventually she says the famous line, it's turtles all the way down.

I like this because this is the inverse like oh it's turtles all the way up buddy what's on top of that more fucking turtles yeah i mean like honestly the ultimate conclusion is is like dustin

just uncovering evidence that he's jewish or something yeah i mean it's either everybody or nobody right you know like either he reaches the point where he's like wait genetically we're all Jewish and then it dies or he goes Jews aren't even real and then dies.

I mean it more that like

his co-host on this show has got to turn out to be part of the conspiracy eventually.

Oh, yeah.

You know, like, it's

it,

you'll never reach the end

and any kind of meaningful information unless you kind of ask questions a little bit about how you got to the point where you become disillusioned.

And I think, uh, yeah, I think that

what I was feeling about watching these things is a reminder and a hearkening back to the disappointment that I had when I first asked some of these questions about like, the fuck's going on with this Alex Jones guy?

Sure.

This is kind of the stuff that was available then and was around then.

And

I honestly feel like I don't know if it's much better.

Now, I think it is a little bit.

There's a more robust conversation in non-insane circles, and I think that's good.

That's a positive.

But

I also think that there's a danger, and that is that

I don't think that these people,

like Augustine, like Victor Hugo or whatever,

I don't think these people think Alex is necessary anymore.

I think they would be fine if he went away.

Yeah.

Twitter and the social media space,

a lot of these video sharing sites have become

such easy radicalization pipelines that

Alex isn't necessary.

Yeah.

That time

when people would need to dip their toe into Alex in order to get them acclimated to the point where they would accept deeply anti-Semitic shows and like explanations of the world,

I don't think that exists anymore.

Yeah.

You can just go cut the middleman out.

And I think that that pretends a fairly scary

thing.

Yeah.

Alex was just conning people.

These guys want extermination.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That is the danger when you con believers is that eventually you have to deliver on something and everything they believe in is not good.

Nope.

It's bad.

Nope.

That's why we get the Crusades.

Yep.

I'm not really God's child.

I'm just a guy.

You put a hat on me.

Let's go kill the Muslims.

All right.

So I think that this was a bummer, a little bit, but I don't know.

Something to talk about.

Yeah, it was fun.

It was fun to see the light carnival to your juggalos, dark carnival.

Whoop, whoop.

So, do you know what a juggalo is?

Is there a thing that they say that I should know if I did know what a juggalo is?

This kind of guy who put nuts in your soup.

There we go.

God, gotta give yeah, you know what?

Not to the Somali pirates, but you gotta give it to the juggalos.

Yeah, you gotta give it to the juggalos.

Whoop, whoop.

So we'll be back with another episode.

But until then, we have a website.

Indeed, we do.

It's KnowledgeFight.com.

Yep, we'll be back.

But until then, I'm Neo.

I'm Leo.

I'm DZX Clark.

I am Mysterious Professor.

Woo, yeah, woo, yeah, woo.

And now here comes the sex robots.

Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.

Thanks for holding.

Hello, Alex.

I'm a first-time caller.

I'm a huge fan.

I love your work.

I love you.