148: Cheese and laser

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What is the only food that humans regularly eat that isn't produced by a living organism?

The answer to that at the end of the show.

My name's Tom Scott, and this is lateral.

I've got some good news for those of you who are looking to complete their collectible miniatures set of lateral guests.

Let's take a look at their stats.

With charisma 21, constitution 18, and inside leg 30, it's Tom Lum.

This is a visual joke, I'm in my miniature pose.

Visual gag on a podcast.

Visual gag on a podcast that still a lot of people listen to in audio.

And I shrunk down to miniature size.

Help, I'm so tiny.

Incredible skill demonstration there.

How are you doing, Tom?

Doing wonderful.

It's so nice to be back on.

Next, with Dexterity 23, Wisdom 19, and Platform 7, it's Caroline Roper.

Oh, it's me.

That's exciting.

Thank you.

I did worry that perhaps David the Producer hadn't made these stats try to make sense, and I'm happy to report that they don't.

Boo!

Well, let's see what you say for me.

Yeah, beauty 20.

Intelligence 20?

Yeah, these are actually all percentages.

How are you doing, Carol?

Oh, that's

mildly offended from the get-go.

I'm doing okay.

Only mildly.

We've started well this time.

I'll take it, yeah.

And finally, with intelligence 24, strength 17, and gas mark 5, it's Ella Hubber.

I'll take it.

We're easy to please, aren't we?

Welcome back to the show, all three of you.

Together, you are Let's Learn Everything.

What have you been learning recently?

Well, we are a science and comedy podcast.

We learn about science and a bit of everything else as well.

Very recently, we learned about dinosaur diet detectives, how you figure that out, and also the history of podcasts, which I think some of your listeners might know what those are.

There's always the chance, always the chance someone just picked up a phone that was playing it, and they're like, What's this?

I saw your post, Tom, about wherever you get your podcasts, and I really, really agree with it.

Oh, I'm so glad.

No one owns that system.

And I hope listeners who listen to the podcast also think podcasts are cool.

Chances are, this is really, I'm really

screening with wire, aren't I?

Podcasts are good.

Yeah, there's a lot of plugging going on here.

I appreciate it.

Very best of luck to all of you.

Let's hope you roll a nat 20 on question one.

Thank you to Connell Kay for this question.

In what way have a meatball and a worm both been sent to space?

I'll say that again.

In what way have a meatball and a worm both been sent to space?

And I can see Tom Lum nodding already.

You know, you did roll that natural 20, baby.

Yep.

I, if anyone was going to get this one, I thought it was going to be Tom Lum.

Caroline, Ella.

Why is that?

Why is it you thought that Tom Lum would get this?

I must know.

Huh?

Well, there might be a hint in that.

Oh, only slightly.

Only slightly.

A worm?

You're a meatable?

What?

You are some of the most regular guests on lateral.

And just based on many previous episodes, I'm like, I think Tom might get this one.

Okay, so

I would guess then it's something to knowing.

Okay, I'm going to go off Tom's background, which is in computer science, right?

Is that right?

You computer science?

I wouldn't go too inside baseball on that.

Okay, fine.

I was like, maybe it's like

a coding system or something.

One's called WRM and one's called MTBL.

Ooh.

That's a great shout.

My brain went to, maybe they were like projected into space through an explosion or something like that.

And you're like, maybe it's like a coding system's name or something.

Like very different mindsets here.

I think that's a great, I think that's lateral thinking.

Yeah.

Ella, I know you've talked on the pod many times about the many, many animals that have gone into space.

I talked about so many things that have been sent into space.

And I know, I know C.

elegans is a type of worm that's been sent to space, which is a common model organism.

But I haven't, I'll be honest, I haven't ever seen anything about a meatball being sent to space in the traditional sense of like it being living on the ISS in a lab situation.

A living meatball floating around existing.

I guess my question would be: Are these an do you mean, is this an actual worm and an actual meatball?

Is this representative of something else?

And if you tell me that, have I I asked too much of you?

I saw your face.

Okay.

Go on, Caroline.

Do some

on command.

Go.

The only way that I could imagine, like, if it is like a meatball, is for it to be like space food meatball, right?

And obviously, like, you know,

astronaut food, freeze-dried food, maybe a worm ended up accidentally entering the mix.

And, you know, like a lot of food has a quantity of animal product in it.

Oh, we learned that recently, too.

Maybe it's like a.

Ooh, no, but that's gross.

Thanks, Ella.

I feel like that's not a worm going to space.

That is worm going to space.

It's a very,

it's a small but very important distinction.

Yeah.

As the names imply, the meatball is round and the worm is long and thin.

And I'll say this isn't an accident.

This is something they are proud of.

Yes.

Are they trying to do some sick-ass dance moves in space?

Oh, the worm.

And the worm.

The worm.

And the meatball.

Is that possible in microgravity?

Don't you need something to like bounce off for that?

Well, that's why they're so proud of it, Tom.

Oh, that's.

And the meatball is a space-only dance move.

You go into a cannonball and you spin around in zero gravity.

Okay, but someone actually did that.

Like, someone, I cannot remember the name, but there is a dance, a choreographer, that's the word, who designed dance for zero gravity.

Whoa.

How do you get into that profession?

If I remember rightly, they were married to a science fiction writer.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Okay, so they're proud of it.

Something round, something long.

That's, and not an actual, I'm guessing, not an actual meatball at a world.

No, in in fact, the meatball is predominantly blue.

Oh,

you don't want your meatball to be that colour, typically.

So,

Tom Lamb, is there a reason why you would have gotten this, or is it just something you happen to know?

Just so I know, not to be thinking down those lines.

I could say it's specific to the US astronauts.

Yes, that's true.

Okay, well, that doesn't help actually, so thanks.

Um,

is it something to do with getting the American flag into space?

quite, but you are getting close.

Oh, wonderful.

Oh, is it like some kind of sim

they're symbolic?

It's they're symbolic for something in America that we would be unaware of.

That's why Tom is like, do you have to say that?

No, you're definitely aware of this.

You will have seen both the meatball and the worm.

Is it like how you call New York the big apple?

You know?

In that it's a nickname for something, yes.

The meatball and the worm.

Are they pieces of like technology, like pieces of equipment that are in that shape?

No, you were way closer with the flags.

Okay, okay.

Are they like characters, like

cartoon characters, like figurines of cartoon characters?

Where might you see the flag on a US rocket?

On the outside of it, Tom.

Yes.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

It's just a picture.

It's just a painted picture of a flag on the side of it.

Yes, it is.

Rocket.

What else might be on that rocket?

Well, clearly a meatball and a worm.

Yep.

If I tell you that the four parts of the worm are letters of the alphabet.

My hint was going to be you will see this on a space shuttle, but you will also possibly see this at Hot Topic.

Yeah.

People in the world.

Yeah, you will.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that you'll see it somewhere in the background of one of your books, libraries, things behind you.

Chances are it's somewhere back there.

What

it's it's something that it's like a pictographic, something representative

of the US space program.

Oh, like, oh,

so like the NASA symbol is

round and blue is

that is the meatball.

The NASA logo that you know with the with the round blue ball, the stars, the this kind of arrow going through it.

That's the meatball.

Y'all are weird for calling it that.

Just calling it like that.

Now, the question is, what's the worm?

The worm is NASA, and if you're saying it's four letters.

Yeah.

Have you ever seen the old NASA logo before the meatball from the 70s and 80s?

As we've litigated many times,

we're all very young and fresh, Tom Scott.

Such babies.

The old NASA logo with the just N-A-S-A using a single line for each letter, which I think you will have seen in

the world, yeah,

in archive pictures.

That is the worm, and the blue ball is called the meatball.

Wow.

Well, that's really interesting.

I can't say we actually figured that one out, to be honest.

You gave us pretty much every logo.

Well, well done, Caroline.

And Tom Lum knew it immediately.

Ding.

Caroline, we will go to you for the next question.

This question has been sent in by Mike Sylvia.

Fiona is watching a group of tourists trying to open something.

She has been trained to listen out for the phrase, cheese and laser.

Why?

Say that one more time.

Fiona is watching a group of tourists try to open something.

She has been trained to listen out for the phrase, cheese and laser.

Why?

I know this one.

I feel like I've heard cheese and laser.

All right, so this time it's Ella setting out.

It's on.

Oh no, it's on me and you.

It's on the Toms.

Hey, everyone, welcome to the Tom and Tom Show.

Where you guys

take on these problems.

Okay,

my first thought is Disney.

Cheese and laser and tourists makes me think of Disney World and Mickey Mouse and Fantasia.

And like, I don't know why tourists would be opening something.

But my first thought is like there is some kind of special effect and cheese is like the code name for Mickey Mouse coming out to to celebrate something.

Laser is interesting.

My thought was:

because

it made me think of

the accent reset phrase of rhizoblides.

So I was like,

that's how you get into an Australian accent.

You say razor blades, terrible rhizoblides.

Rhizoblides.

Really?

That's a terrible one.

I just go, nah.

Nah.

So I was like, shot, cheese and and lizard.

So like beer can.

Yeah, beer can for bacon, Jamaican bacon.

Bia can.

You've not heard that one?

Cheese and lizard.

Oh, I've definitely heard that one.

I'm just scared to use it.

Cheese and Liza.

Cheese and Liza.

Kind of along the right.

Actually, you're really along the right lines there, Tom Lum.

Is it specifically Australian?

I want.

So is it one of those phrase?

Oh, oh, wait, wait, wait.

Is it a mispronunciation or something like that?

Like, it's really easy to hear that phrase because it sounds like something in a different language.

Like,

they're not saying cheese and laser, but to English ears,

that's what it sounds like.

Yeah.

You're really along the right lines there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's exactly it.

So, just to be clear, not Mickey Mouse.

No, I really enjoyed listening to you talking about that idea so like passionately, but no.

Can we deduce the phrase or is it in a different language that we don't know?

I'll say it's it's in a different language.

Okay, okay.

It's a different language, so it's not even like an accent thing.

I'm not gonna try and work through every language to figure out what she's on lazir.

Oh, yeah, like why you went French with it, though.

I did.

I'm glad you got what accent I was attempting there.

That's why I said that one.

There was like half a second of silence, or it was just like, oh.

What's the first part of the fr of this thing?

It's when they try to open something.

Fiona is watching a group of tourists trying to open something.

Watching a group of tourists try to open something.

I'm still stuck on like Disney parks and things like that.

There's some kind of hidden door, hidden...

Like when you do this thing,

you have to...

And it's not an escape room because you don't get tourists.

Well, you get a few tourists for escape rooms, but not many.

Like,

it's something that has to be manually triggered because they've done a thing.

Are you sure?

I saw Caroline's eyes fleet for a brief moment, so I'll quickly say my joke, which is that I thought this was like a pull the sword from the stone situation.

That's what I was thinking.

Yeah, something that's manually triggered.

Like

they have to do a thing,

like the sword and the stone gaggart, if you are the...

I don't know which parks this is, but it's remote triggered.

Who is Disney?

There's someone watching it.

Oh, and they do a...

So if an adult goes up and tries to pull it, nothing moves.

But if a kid goes up...

It might move a bit for them.

That's great.

But it's a pickle jar.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You are actually like your thinking is so incredibly close but you've gone down disney again rather than the the thing that you did say you did say something in there which is like was it

escape room it was escape room yeah

do either of you want to put the pieces the final pieces together on that one

cheese and laser watching the people are they like the the like behind the scenes yeah yeah yeah yeah at the escape room and they're waiting to hear cheese and lays.

They hear...

They have to say the magic words out loud.

Magic words are almost making it too complicated.

When you're thinking about an escape room, what might you be...

I mean, I mean, I guess it kind of is a magic word.

Please?

No.

What else might, what might you be trying to open in an escape room?

The door to the exit.

The door to the exit, yeah, the lock, absolutely.

So what sort of thing might you need to be able to open the lock is it like a code a key yeah no you're absolutely right it's a code that is basically exactly it they're listening for the code number

in another language oh

cheese on laser something like that i forgot about the language for a second and i was like how you put the cheese in the laser and it opens up the lock it's like in the anna jones when you you hold up the thing to the sunlight but it's a cheese in the laser and when someone yells that number you know in a few seconds time the door's going to be open and you need to be there to to rescue the people who are now out in the corridor well not even necessarily that because

what's a game master there for other than just to let people out at the end of it when you're watching an escape room happening oh you're

like sometimes technical issues happen and they've got to keep an ear out first.

Oh, so it's like if the goofs up, this is like the manual.

Like if people are like repeating the code because they're frustrated, you have to say, like.

This is exactly it.

You're exactly right, Tom.

She's listening out for that code word, and if the door doesn't open, she then has to do something.

She then has to go and open it for them, basically.

So, yeah, Fiona would be the game master in an escape room, and occasionally people from other countries would turn up.

Chi Chi Senlasa or Chi-san Losa specifically would be around Chinese.

Wow.

So it's a good approximation for Mandarin,

for these Mandarin words for non-Mandarin speakers to listen out for, basically.

And actually, this story is based on a real room that Mike's company runs.

So this is a real world experience thing that's happening as well.

And now you know the exit code if you understand the untonal

Chinese syllables there.

She's going to go to any escape room just being like, hey guys, watch this trick.

Cheese and laser.

Yeah.

And all the doors open.

So yeah, you're all absolutely right.

Fiona would have been listening out for the code in another language, that language being in Mandarin.

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Thank you to Amelia Duchamp for sending in this question.

For years, the citizens of Les Valois, Perret in the suburbs of Paris, found it impossible to use a road leading out of the city.

This was despite the road being in good condition and not obstructed in any way.

Why?

Say that again.

For years, the citizens of Le Valois, Perret in the suburbs of Paris found it impossible to use a road leading out of the city.

This was despite the road being in good condition and not obstructed in any way.

Why?

I spent so much of my time there being really impressed with your French words that I wasn't fully paying attention to some of the questions there.

Thank you for hiding the fact that was take three.

It's appreciated.

That's because Tom said his accent practice phrase, cheese and laser.

That's why.

She's in laser.

Yeah.

Not obstructed, good working condition.

Road out of the city.

My first thought is there's some video game reason.

They haven't unlocked that area yet.

That's why classic reasons you can't cross a road yet.

There's a Snorlax there,

other reasons.

So, did you say a year?

I don't know if that'll be

four years.

Okay.

No, no, not four years.

Yeah.

Is it

maybe it's superstition about using the road

or yeah, some kind of rule.

There's a law that they can't use the roll.

The mayor has decreed it.

It's a private road.

Yeah, like what would have changed is the thing after many years that would allow them to use.

My other first thought was like the road just like loops back around.

It's not, it's perfectly fine.

It's just badly designed or something.

It just doesn't go anywhere.

Was there like a broken traffic light that had like a red light there for years?

And no one bothered even trying to go through the light.

That's

they're so polite.

They were just like, oh, I won't keep you.

Oh, man.

Is this a road that

there's like a technology that hasn't been invented yet?

Because I know there's a great story that I think you covered, Tom, about like an elevator shaft that was built before the elevator or something like that.

There's a there was a famous story about a building in Cooper Union that had, that my dad tells me all the time about a circular elevator shaft that they thought, because they thought

elevators were going to be circular.

And then when they were rectangular, it was a really tiny elevator inside the circle.

So I'm wondering, like, is this a road for like, I was thinking like

some electric or mechanical vehicle that can't travel it because it has been made.

Wow, it's a lovely answer, and it's completely wrong.

The closest we've had, I think, was Ella talking about sort of mayoral decrees.

It's not that close, but you were able to walk down this road with no problems.

You just can't drive down it.

You just can't drive down it.

Can you cycle a bike?

Does that make a difference?

I don't think so, no.

Oh, this is anti-to what I just said, but I would love, truly love if the answer was that cars weren't invented yet.

Yeah.

That was was the reason you couldn't track down.

I would have loved that answer.

You also said bikes can't go down it, so it's something to do with wheel things not being allowed down it.

Then I assume.

Can you push a buggy down?

I was just thinking that, yeah.

Yeah, you'd be able to do that.

Okay.

Is it a speed issue?

Like, is it just super windy and scary, maybe?

Um,

couldn't bike in the suburbs of Paris?

Uh, the windy city.

Um,

it's what it's wide wide enough for a buggy, but not

a normal road.

It leads to another nearby town.

I mean, the only thing I can think is just that it's just, you're not allowed to.

Yeah.

Yes, there's a bit more to it than that.

Yeah, so.

Now that's fine.

Well, let me have it.

What's that?

Is it being used by someone?

Like, is it being used for military purposes and therefore the public can't not go on it?

But then you wouldn't be able to walk on it.

The city council here were trying to solve a problem.

Was it always super congested, and therefore they were like, well, to fix the congestion problem, we're just going to ban drivers on there.

And oh?

They didn't want to ban drivers.

Quite the opposite, actually.

They just wanted to make a little bit of a change.

They were trying to solve a problem.

So was the other town.

Oh, they didn't want the towns, they didn't want people from the other town coming in.

So you said you can leave, but you can't, no one can enter, or something like that on this road on car

or something now you're getting very close how would you how would you make that happen if you if you're a road traffic engineer you want to make that happen what what signs do you put up like one way or oh there's a one-way sign on each

but like to block the other direction on each side in each town yes both towns complained the road acted as a bottleneck to other roads in their jurisdiction so they wanted traffic diverted the other way.

So, what happens next?

Oh, did they both put up a one-way sign?

That's what I said.

From both ends?

No, but from both ends, so they know where you're going.

Oh, sorry.

And the thing is,

and the reason I've not said yes is that's not the sign they put up.

Surely they didn't just put like a no-entry sign up.

Both towns put a no-entry sign because, as far as they were concerned, it's one way, the other way.

They just never communicated with each other.

And they never.

Wow.

Wow.

That's great.

This has now been fixed.

Level one were the ones who kept their sign.

Oh, good on them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fought the fight.

I'm sorry for missing your answer, Ella.

I was just so delighted in coming up and hearing it for myself in my own brain.

I was like, wait a second.

I'm so sorry.

Ella, your question.

This question has been sent in by Florence Bourgeois.

How has an addiction for American savory snacks helped to save thousands of lives indirectly?

Say that again.

How has an addiction for American savoury snacks helped to save thousands of lives indirectly?

Indirectly, because my first brain goes to like salt, having iodine and therefore like reducing malnutrition and things like that, but it's an indirect thing, so it's not okay.

I was going to say, because as an American, if it was the

I'll just say the answer is uh savory lifesavers, which we were inventing.

They're meat-flavored lifesavers.

What's a lifesaver?

It's a polo.

It's a little, it's like a mint.

Savory polo?

Whoa.

Yeah, no, that's the joke I intended.

I know I'm the only American here, but that was a joke about it.

Right.

Lifesavers, saving lives, save.

Dove it.

That took a while to.

It's a really good gag.

Just throwing the brain today.

Just throwing the brain today.

It's a good gag for a good chunk of the audience.

Yeah.

I like your

iodine answer, Caroline.

I wonder if it is.

Yeah, like, was it, like, is it a malnutrition thing?

Like, did it?

No.

No, it's not.

Is it something to do with the packaging?

Yes, Caroline.

Oh, my gosh.

What?

Did it have something written on it that...

could be like a good life-saving but it was inadvertently it was indirectly So, it wouldn't necessarily have been deliberate writing.

My thought was in the same way that it's like, oh, the Bible in your pocket blocks a bullet.

It's like the raised potato chips.

That's why they're so full of air.

It's for your safety.

It acts like an air cushion when you land.

But if you're talking American savory snacks,

then Pringles, Pringles.

Like, you talk about packaging.

Pringles tubes.

It's got to be something to do with Pringles tubes, surely.

Why does it?

Why?

Because

this is me looking into the question writer's head and going, American savory snacks and the word addiction.

The slogan.

You pop one, you just can't stop, or something like that.

Yeah,

it's got to be Pringles tubes, but I don't know what you would do with Pringles tubes to save lives.

Because my other thought was: if it was a plastic packaging of some sort and it was like specifically targeted at like hikers or something, could they then use it to transport all the cases?

Oh my god, great answer.

That's not good.

It's Pringle's tubes.

Oh, okay.

How did you

get a cookie?

Because American savory snack and addiction.

Yes.

Some connection lit up in my head.

Fun.

Was it people getting their hands stuck in Pringle's tubes and going to the hospital?

And then the hospital staff being like, oh, whilst you're here, we also found cancer.

You're not out anymore.

That's so, so funny.

Such a wild idea.

I mean, that's why we designed it.

It's to save you all.

It's not that.

It's not that bad.

The way

that you put their hands into the tube actually is important here.

I was so upset about that.

That that helped.

Oh, is there like some...

Is there, would there be some

like if

you can or can't fit your hand in, it's like a test?

Oh, of some.

It's a test of how big your hand is.

Yeah.

Yeah, or something.

I'm trying to think.

Some like hypermobility thing in your hand or something like that that you need to get checked up on?

Or?

No, no, no.

Here's an off-the-wall one.

You can use Pringles tubes as makeshift antennas.

You can do Wi-Fi extension by some kind of hooky.

I do not possess the electrical engineering knowledge.

I've just seen the words cantenna around.

Nice, brilliant.

And Pringles tubes can act as really directional Wi-Fi antennas.

Yes, I'm gesturing like I'm holding a gun and a Pringles tube here.

It's just a Wi-Fi antenna.

It's just a Pringle Wi-Fi antenna.

It's not a gun.

No, I swear it's a Pringle Wi-Fi antenna.

Maybe they could save lives because they're like cheap antennas for communication somewhere, something like that.

I love it, Tom.

I love it.

But no,

indirectly in the question is important here.

The tube itself is not saving lives.

Wi-Fi is indirect.

No, the tube is not being involved

the thing.

How you, what's that like?

People putting their hand into the tube made them realize something about their own health.

No, okay.

No, no, no, no.

Is it because they're, they're, it's hard to reach the bottom ones and it's an unhealthy snack, therefore you're having

less of it and it's saving your life?

You went too far.

You went too far.

You got there and you went too far.

It is hard to reach the bottom ones.

If you can't get the bottom Pringles out, you're way too drunk to drive.

I think before then, surprise test.

No, so the you know, thinking about, think about how your hand enters that tube and uh-huh, you know, do the action.

Let's all do the action, the Pringle tube action.

Listeners, do the Pringle tube action.

You everybody do the Pringle tube.

Yeah,

you kind of like narrow your hand and you slip your whole kind of arm into the tube, right?

Uh-huh.

Like, like helping a cow give birth.

You're not so far off.

Sorry, what?

Okay.

Okay.

Because my brain was going to those sorts of places and then I thought, that can't be it.

Are they saving human lives?

Yeah.

I was going to say, is this saving cow lives?

Not saving cow lives.

What?

Is this

not like doctors training?

No.

Sorry, my face can't stop itself.

What?

Is it training for what?

For helping to give, not helping to give birth?

To assist birth,

that's it.

That's it.

What?

What?

What?

The Pringle manoeuvre or Pringle hand.

Pringle manoeuvre.

Yeah, Pringle Hand is taught to midwives.

It's a technique used by doctors or midwives.

I'm sorry, Pringle hand?

One word?

The Pringle.

No, no, it's just two words.

Everybody, do the Pringle Hand.

Good evening.

This is Jeremy Pringlehand reporting live.

So sometimes...

When there's Pringle Hand, I'm going to be helping with your baby.

Well,

she would be.

Or he.

Let's not get gendered about it.

So

sometimes when a baby's born.

Any gender can stick their hand in the Pringle too.

Exactly.

Sometimes when a baby is born, the baby's head.

I'm.

This is.

We've derailed.

please explain the answer.

I'm genuinely.

I'm so curious.

Oh, wow.

Okay, everyone, take a breath.

Sometimes when a baby is born, the head comes out, but the uppermost shoulder gets stuck against the mother's pubic bone.

So the Pringle maneuver is a way to move the posterior arm.

The doctor inserts a hand into the birth canal, and the hand is like scrunched up as if you know you're reaching for the last Pringle in the tube.

And then the baby can be rotated into a better position to be pulled out.

Wow.

Oh my God.

That's amazing.

It is amazing.

It's really cool.

And all I could focus on was how serious everyone went whilst you were explaining it and how much I wanted to laugh.

There's a lot of hand action in that explanation as well.

That's a real Mr.

Miyagi moment.

The nurses are like,

why are you making me pull 100 Pringles from the bottom?

It's like, you'll see.

You'll see.

So actually, the person who said the question is a final year midwifery student.

And they're taught that this problem

is a relatively common emergency so it gets really drummed into them that they have to do this.

Thank you for realizing during your studies that that was a really good lateral question.

Exactly, exactly, yeah.

Thank you to Richard Sanderson for this next question.

When football teams play at the Estadio Milton Correa in Macapa, northern Brazil, It's sometimes said that both sides are playing for the honour of something much bigger than their team.

How?

I'll say that again.

When football teams play at the Estadio Milton Correa in Macapa, northern Brazil, it's sometimes said that both sides are playing for the honour of something much bigger than their team.

How?

I have butchered the pronunciation of the Brazilian town in there.

Doubtless the emphasis is some other way on that.

Does it matter who the opposing team is in this one?

So what's bigger than their team?

Their town?

Their town name is perhaps particularly important although we wouldn't know because tom butchered it

um right here

macappa it's an m a c and a p and there's some vowels between them and i apologize to the entire nation of brazil

as you should

um is the giant statue of um

jesus christ in brazil is that the one that's the one you're talking about yeah okay that is i don't think northern brazil okay because I was like, that's a big honor.

That's a literally bigger.

If you can kick the ball over it, then that's the big honor that you get.

What's a bigger honor than your town when you're playing for a playing a game, a match?

Being on lateral.

Can I get a hint for that?

When you're playing football, it's bigger.

Okay.

It's football.

You said football, right?

Yes, football teams.

So soccer for the Americans.

Brazilians really love football.

I don't know.

Is something like something on the line?

And also, I wonder if

this is like a small local team.

So this is sort of like they're playing for something, or if this is like a bigger league that

if

somebody sometimes comes to watch, and therefore it's like an honor to almost

perform in front of them.

There's something very special about the stadium.

Oh, the stadium is where somebody

special is buried, and their last request was to be buried in that stadium, and then for that team to win every single time.

Otherwise, it goes against their last wishes.

Wow, could you imagine?

There's, there's a, I live in Cardiff, and the stadium outs just outside the entrance of the stadium, there is a graveyard where they bury fans, like lifelong fans.

Wow.

Wow.

That is,

yo.

That's kind of morbid, but kind of cool.

Yeah, exactly.

So, but so not that, though.

No, not that.

I'm like, is it a feel?

I'm just thinking weird places a football field could be.

I'm like on an aircraft carrier and they have to do something.

But how does it, what was the phrase one more time?

I'm so sorry.

An honor bigger than their team?

The honor of something much bigger than their team.

And yes, that word order is important.

Honor of something much bigger.

I'm wondering if bigger is metaphorical or well, the stadium is much bigger, so they're playing for the honor of their stadium.

Presumably, then the team.

That stadium's location was chosen deliberately.

Interesting.

Is it something

if we knew about the geography of Brazil or locations in it that we could deduce this?

Or is this something?

Yes, and you don't really need to know much about Brazil for this.

The Amazon is in Brazil, but

that's not as northerly, is it?

That's That's more further down.

Is it near the equator?

Is that a thing?

Is it on the equator?

Is it on and then on our opposite sides of the field

on opposite sides of the equator?

And okay, playing for something bigger than their team, the Earth or their hemisphere?

Correct.

Spoto!

It's a hemisphere duel!

Yes,

each team is playing for a different hemisphere of Earth.

This was originally.

That's metal.

That's so cool.

This was originally completed in 1990 as the Estadio Ayrton Senna.

It is known colloquially as the Zero because the halfway line of the pitch was designed to line up exactly with the Earth's equator.

Great name, too, man.

Yep.

So when the teams play, they are each effectively defending one hemisphere of the Earth.

Of course, halfway through a foot.

Of course, halfway through a football game, you switch sides.

Yes, you do.

So you get to defend both sides of the issue.

You do.

Well, no, and then momentarily, the magnetic field switches.

So it also.

Every time they have a game, when you feel like a weird spinning, like, whoa, what's happening?

That's the game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the compasses spinning around.

It's like, oh, it must be half-time.

Tomlum, it is over to you.

This question has been sent in by Jean.

In the 1984 computer game Karateca, players may find that starting the game a specific way caused the graphics to glitch.

When calling tech support, users were gleefully told to reload the game after doing something that was both logical and illogical.

What was the glitch and what was the solution?

I'll read that again.

No, I'll read it again and we can all simmer on that answer while I read this.

In the 1984 computer game, Karateka, players may find that starting the game a specific way caused the graphics to glitch.

When calling tech support, users were gleefully told to reload the game after doing something that was both logical and illogical.

What was the glitch and what was the solution?

Is it licking?

Licking

licking the CD because we've had a question like this before where you could make the the CD skip by like licking it, right?

So I don't think that would fix the I believe I remember that was for a speed running thing to make the game slow down and stuff.

Tom, I'm just stuck on the fact, like, in the way that you're like Quiz Bull stealing an answer from someone that buzzed early, but

it was licking.

You're like, oh, I can't wait to say it.

You fool, you buzzed in.

It's the right answer, but you buzzed in too early.

Also, this is 1984.

This is not a CD.

This is not going to be CDs.

This is going to be a cartridge or something like that.

Very good point.

But it's also the days when

if you're doing games at home in 84,

it's either going to be some very old personal computer or it's going to be one of the really early consoles.

Either way, there's a lot of weird hardware stuff going on here.

I'm guessing it's not just turning it off and on again.

Yeah, or like blowing on the cartridge and putting it back in again.

I've never heard of this game either.

No.

Neither have I.

Is that important to the.

No, I don't believe so.

I think it's one of those like side-scrolling beat-em-up games, I believe.

Very pixely, but yeah,

I don't believe that'll help you.

Interesting.

I do like the word gleefully in the question.

Like, people called for tech support, and it's like,

this is a joke, this is a prank, this is some, this is the developers saying they're clever.

You are, the gleefully is very accurate to the type of thing that's happening here.

I guess if you're so okay, let's think of the era then again.

84.

What I think the the type of thing

i think the type of thing it's using would make the most sense here because if you you have to do you obviously have to do something physical here so either you're doing something to like the computer it's on or the thing that it's uploaded on

um and it's not like changing the date on the console or something like that we've had that before

there were all sorts of weird copy protection stuff back then because

things weren't always online piracy was easier so sometimes sometimes the manual of the game would contain additional instructions.

There was

a game I remember having where every single time you went in, you would have to go to the manual and it would give you like a little puzzle or a code or something like that.

You would have to look up the answer in the manual and respond.

So yes, you could also pirate the manual.

It's just a photo sheet.

But that's a bigger deal than just putting a file somewhere and copying just a disk.

You wouldn't download a game manual.

You guys are really circling on the era of technology and the gleefulness.

I know, Ella and Caroline, you mentioned something about like turning it off and back on again, right?

It's,

yeah, oh, you guys are, you guys, I think you guys will get it.

What was this a piracy measure?

Because it could be that if the game was pirated, it did something wrong or different, and thus

you were being told, go buy the game, you cheapskate.

No, no, this would happen with genuine copies.

And if you brought it properly, it wasn't a piracy measure.

And is it something like, if you were playing the game as intended, it wouldn't happen?

Or could this happen to like any player?

It's a little bit of both.

Like,

this glitch could happen to a normal person, but if you were doing it properly, it shouldn't happen.

Interesting.

It's not piracy.

It's trying to skip forward.

It is.

It is purely gleefulness.

It is purely.

Like, or is it something that the developers have put into the game as like a joke?

And then, so you can do the things that they say, and then

it like fixes it, but it's actually just like for fun.

It's some form of Easter egg or something like that.

Ooh.

Yeah, I would more classify this as an Easter egg.

Although what it causes, users would think is a glitch.

But it is more

like a prank than it is a, it's, it's to delight the customer service folks on the line trying to help people out.

Ah.

And just do all of the games start like this?

Like this game is like, if it's like a deliberate glitch.

This was a deliberate glitch for this game.

I think, Tom, you might have a better insight into some of the oddities of tech of that era.

You mentioned sort of like what was this played on, whether it was a console or PC.

84, it's going to be a very early NES,

or it might be a home PC, like one of the early Amigas or Amstrad.

A floppy disk?

Interesting.

Oh, I think.

I mean, yes.

I don't know why.

It feels better if I say, hmm, rather than saying

'84 is too early for the three and a half inch disks.

This would be like a five and a quarter inch, literal floppy disk with a bit of wobble to it, I think, in 84.

So, what's the solution to wobble it?

That would be so.

I like the pencil illusion.

I will say, like the screen, it turns on and it's wobbly, and they say, wobble it.

So, Ella, you are spot on.

It is a floppy disk.

I think Tom might know the specifics of, because I don't know if all floppy disks

had this functionality, but I believe,

but this was a thing you did with the floppy disk.

Okay, right.

It is time for the non-Jane Z person in this call to remember floppy disks.

I'm a millennial.

If it's a five and a quarter inch floppy disk, the old school ones, then

technically you could turn it upside down, but that would be

own.

What would that do to it, though?

What would that do to it?

There were double-sided floppy disks.

Oh.

Oh, my God.

Okay, wait, I've got an idea.

The glitch is like that it's it's on one side they have the game upside down, the other side they have the game the right way up, and they tell you, just turn the disc the other way around.

And so you put it in and you get the right way up.

That's exactly it.

That's cute.

It's

lovely.

So wild that they were like, we have some space on the back.

What can we do?

Yeah.

Yes, so the glitch is that the game was upside down.

The solution was to turn the floppy disk over to side B.

The developers of the game discovered that they were able to make the graphics turn upside down by changing a data table, and that gave them the idea to put a second copy of the game just upside down.

That's so fun.

Give this joke and this note, which is so great.

Because the labels only on one side of the disc.

You would have to make a mistake.

You would have to put it in the wrong way.

No one would do that deliberately unless they knew about the glitch.

At which point, your game is upside down.

I cannot, what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall for people being like, turn upside down and go, oh, okay, that worked.

Wait, what?

So the developers of the game discovered that they were able to make the graphics turn upside down by changing a data table, which gave them an idea to put a second copy of the game on side B of the floppy disk.

And if any player loaded this version by accident, the game's graphics would appear upside down.

And so occasionally a tech support rep would have the joy of telling puzzled users, oh, you inserted the game upside down.

Just please turn the floppy disk over and reload the game.

And the game was created by Jordan Mechner of Prince of Persia fame.

Which brings me to the question from the very top of the show.

Thank you to Harry Niall Levinson for sending this in.

What is the only food that humans regularly eat that isn't produced by a living organism?

Anyone want to take a quick shot at that before I tell the audience?

Is it salt?

Is that

salt?

Spot on.

Yes.

That's just a little science fact.

It is.

It is.

I remember some child in, I must have been like year two or year three at school, like really young, and the teacher saying that everything we eat goes back to living plants and then goes back to sunlight, everything.

And some kid going, what about salt?

And that kid, Albert Einstein.

And everyone clapped.

Thank you very much to all three other players.

Ala Hubber, where are you all from?

We're from Let's Learn Everything, a science and miscellaneous podcast.

We talk about everything, everything.

Things like Tom Lum.

Well, we talk about some silly things occasionally.

We just had a big bonus episode where we did a game show, where we each hosted a game show, including a friend of this podcast, Sabrina Cruz, joining us, and also Tom Scott for a guest surprise question.

Very brief question.

Very brief, but so funny.

So funny.

And where can people find you, Caroline Roper?

Anywhere that you can listen to podcasts.

You can also find more details about all of us at letslearneverything.com.

And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own ideas for questions.

We are at lateralcast basically everywhere.

There are regular video highlights at youtube.com/slash lateralcast and full video episodes on Spotify.

Thank you very much to Caroline Roper.

Oh, I'm out of breath just watching that.

Come on.

I'm going to hold my breath until the next episode.

And Ella Hubber.

Bye-bye.

I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.