The relationship | Lucky Boy Ep2

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Tortoise.

Just a warning before we start. This episode includes descriptions of sexual abuse and strong language.
Last time on Lucky Boy. I mean, everybody knew when Bowen hit Christ College.
Alarm bells started going off because I remember being at school at this time and there being all

these rooms. My heads were close together we were looking at each other and then I just started

kissing. Well she's got 900 kids there and she selects me like I thought I was something special

I was I just didn't know what kind of special that meant.

So, I don't know whether it would surprise you to know that it's been incredibly hard to get people to talk to me for this series.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm not surprised.

Why?

I think most people probably just think it was a long time ago. Different era, things were more acceptable.
The way I found this guy, Gavin, was really just the result of a numbers game. I called so many former Christ College pupils that I was bound to find someone who'd talk to me in the end.
And it's a good thing he picked up the phone,

because I do need people to talk,

to tell me what they remember about Miss Bowen.

It's important to say that Gareth's account seems credible to me.

I've spent hours with him going over his story

and he's frank about what he can and can't recall from the time.

Even so, memory's a tricky thing, affected by all sorts of factors.

Not least that what he remembers was seen through the eyes of a 14-year-old,

a child whose lack of experience and judgement could have blurred context or nuance.

And when he sits in front of me to tell me about Miss Bowen, his memories are almost all he can rely on. There's no ring binder full of hard evidence he can show me.
I've tried to follow leads. There was a painter-decorator Gareth says was working in Miss Bowen's house once and told him he heard them having sex.
I got as far as tracking down the now-deceased landlord's daughter, but she had no idea who her dad might have hired. There are so many avenues like this that just lead to dead ends.
Clues and evidence lost in the passage of time. There is one thing, though, that can help both of us.
Witnesses from the school who could help me work out exactly what happened and why and help Gareth in his quest for justice. And he's adamant there are plenty of them.
I'm calling you because I'm a journalist and I'm working... Given how widespread the rumours about Gareth and the chemistry teacher seem to be I imagined this would be pretty straightforward I could not have been more wrong Almost as soon as I start calling round I hit a wall And see if you might be able to help me a little bit Chloe, I I know who you are now, OK? And I think we'll just leave it there.
Lots of people respond like this. Weird, but I keep going down the list of people I know.
And then friends of friends, until I find Gavin. These days, the work he does helps the police in their hunt for paedophiles and sex abusers.
It's something he feels passionately about, and that's why he's agreed to talk to me. I think it's important that these things are exposed.
The audience that listen hopefully reaches somebody who might be in a similar experience, you know, regardless of who's the perpetrator and who's the victim, there is always a victim in this. Just like for Gareth, the young, good-looking chemistry teacher made a lasting impression on him.
Sally-Ann Bowen came in as a very young, flirtatious, coquettish character. In an all-boys school, she absolutely stood out, got a lot of attention.
And crucially, he remembers her going off with one boy in particular. It was clear that her and Gareth had formed a very close relationship.
And the assumption was that it had definitely strayed into more than just pupil-teacher relationship. So they would certainly go off on their own.
There were parts of the grounds in the schools that you could go to where you could be alone and undisturbed, and you'd see them walking off to those places. And Gavin wasn't the only one who'd noticed.
So it wasn't spoken about, but everybody knew that there was something going on between the two of them. So just describe that.
What would it look like? So the close conversations, so, you know, very physically close to each other, not holding hands, but flirting. You could see them then sort of walking off to areas that they wouldn't be disturbed.
Like where? So either behind some of the buildings or to the north of the school, there was wooded areas. So they would go there independently and then meet up in there.
And you could see that happening? Yeah. Rumours are one thing, but what Gavin's telling me went beyond that.
The relationship between Gareth and his teacher was on show, in plain sight. So there must be other witnesses, and some of them might know more.
If I could, I'd get all the teachers and pupils in one room and ask them, who knew what and when? Did they discuss the fact that it was illegal for an adult to have sex with a child under the age of consent? And did anyone try and stop it? It feels a bit like planning a school reunion for a bunch of people who don't really want to show up. As Gavin says, lots of former Christ College boys think this story's best left in the 80s, a different time when different attitudes prevailed and who knows what really happened anyway.
The thing is, back in 1988 when Miss Bowen first had sex with Gareth, it seems some people did know, and they knew it was wrong. And their failure to act to protect Gareth is still having consequences today.
I didn't know I was going to be abandoned. I certainly didn't know that I was going to make a whole lot of adult enemies that had my life in their hands and decided to sort of like teach me a

lesson if you like um i didn't know any of that

i'm chloe hadjimathay and from Tortoise, this is Lucky Boy.

Episode 2, The Relationship. Every morning when he's 14 years old, Gareth's mum wakes him up at the crack of dawn.
He wolfs down his breakfast and rushes out the door to do a paper round before school. The extra pocket money comes in really

useful. He mostly spends it on comics and sweets at the corner shop.
Not many of his mates have a job, so he's super proud of that paper round. That's the mornings.
In the afternoons, Gareth's having sex with a 27-year-old woman. After the first time Miss Bowen lets Gareth into her room, it becomes a regular after-school activity.
After that, it was just like pure sex every day. This is happening around the spring of 1988, when he's in his fourth year at school, year 10 we call it these days, or ninth grade in the US.
While other boys are at cadets club or practicing with a cricket team, Miss Bowen and Gareth get the bus together outside Christ College at 3.30 and then they walk up from the stop to the house she shares with other young professionals. Did you tell her you loved her again? Yeah, I told her I loved her all the way through.

When did she say it to you?

I can't remember.

Probably quite early on.

She did tell me she loved me, yeah.

It's difficult to know what Miss Bowen was thinking in moments like this

and whether she meant it when she told a 14-year-old boy she loved him.

And of course she's on my list of witnesses too. I want to ask her directly.
But first, I want to hear the whole story from Gareth's perspective. Was she always the one in control? Was she the one, not only your sexual relationship, but your relationship as a couple? Yeah, for sure.
For sure. Always.
In May, it's Gareth's birthday. He remembers Miss Bowen being really pleased about it.
She tells him... It's not as bad now that you're 15.
I mean, comments like that all the way through. As in, it doesn't sound as bad for a woman of almost 30 to be having sex with a 15-year-old.
Even so, it's clear she has some awareness that this is still not acceptable, because she's careful. Just before 6pm every evening, she makes him leave her place.
But if all you do is take your clothes off and get into bed, without an hour and a 45 minutes seems a long time for a 14-year-old boy.

You never saw any of her flatmates?

No, never. Not one.

Got through that front door, closed the door.

That was it.

She wouldn't even walk me to the tube station.

When Gareth's mum asks where he's been,

he tells her he was with friends near his old house where he lived with his dad in Hendon. His best mate lives on an estate there.
The friend's the only person Gareth's confided in. He hasn't told a single mate at Christ College School.
And actually, it isn't that hard because Gareth's a misfit. He doesn't have a lot of friends at the school.

Perhaps that's one of the reasons Miss Bowen might have picked him

out of the hundreds of boys there.

This woman, she didn't sleep with me so I would go around and tell everyone else.

She slept with me on the understanding that I wouldn't tell everyone else.

And that was a tacit agreement, I suppose.

But it's only a matter of time before they slip up. The only instance I can remember was to do with Ben.
That wild kid from Christ's College who nicked the porno mags. Not the ideal person for them to slip up in front of.

Gareth isn't in any of Miss Bowen's chemistry classes,

so the two of them only really come face-to-face during the school day if they happen to pass each other in the corridor,

which is exactly what happens on this particular occasion.

Well, I was walking, Bowen's walking my way,

and we have her, like, this is, we've been having sex for quite a while now, yeah, and we've had some acknowledgement, but she was always careful not to have acknowledgement with me. Right then, Ben appears out of nowhere.
Ben's walked past her and Ben's interacting with her. Whatever he said, whatever he's doing, he's doing, he's like, look at me, look at me.
Bullshit. and even though they're always so careful not to anything away, Gareth and Miss Bowen look up at each other for a second.
A quick eye roll, a kind of, isn't Ben an idiot? He's got no idea about us. It's just a tiny intimate glance that passes between them.
She's gone off into the main building and Ben's now walking up to me.

I didn't know what to say, I didn't want to...

You know, I'm not giving anything away, but, like, you know,

it would have been from my viewpoint at that time

you're harassing my girlfriend.

Yeah, twisted, whatever.

And Ben just looked straight at me, he was laughing,

and he said to me,

You're fucking her. I know you're fucking her.

Yeah? Oh, my God.

And I was just like, Oh, shit. Fucking big mouth Ben.
He isn't sure who Ben tells, but over time, Gareth's convinced that rumours have spread to other pupils, and even the teachers, although no one actually confronts him about it. But also, I think people might have been too polite to do that.
I mean, who wants to... But it was known.
Nobody came up to me and asked me point blank. Ever.
Not teachers or pupils. Until this one day when someone breaks the silence.
And the thing that really freaks him out is that it's a teacher and a good friend of Miss Bowen's at the school, Heather MacIsaac. I think she told MacIsaac.
I truly do. I think she told her and she knew for certain.
Another potential witness. She's one of the teachers who's invested time and effort in Gareth.
She talks to him with respect and he likes her. So this day, the first time an adult actually acknowledges what he's been up to with a teacher, it's really etched on his memory.
I've still got an image in my head now. I was in the corridor in the upper school, not far away from the headmaster's office.
I'm standing outside, being turfed as usual, probably for flicking something at someone or whatever I was doing. Miss MacIsaac turns the corner and walks up towards him and as she approaches him she lowers her voice.
And she said, I know what's going on. And I was like, I know what's going on with you and Sally-Anne.
I think she actually said you and Miss Bowen. And she says, it's not right what you two are doing.
I don't agree with it. Then she just walks away.
Gareth's frozen. He doesn't say a word.
He's terrified of anything that might risk what he's got going on with Miss Bowen.

But when he stops to think about it later, he realises he's got nothing to worry about.

After all, Miss MacIsaac and Miss Bowen are really good friends.

She's not going to grass them up.

Nearly 30 years later, when Gareth's looking for witnesses,

Heather MacIsaac will say she has no memory of this. That as far as she's concerned, none of it ever happened.
At this point, it's fair to assume that at least some of the teachers had suspicions about what was going on. As far as we know, they did nothing to put a stop to it.
In fact, there's only one person who ever really tried to blow the whistle on that relationship between Gareth and Miss Bowen, and she had nothing to do with the school. What do you think now when you look back and you think about how the school behaved? I think they were disgusting.

Totally irresponsible.

There were a lot of teachers there that knew about it and did nothing.

I think it was disgraceful.

And I thought the fact that they lied to me, you know, they failed in their duty of care to him.

He was only 14 and he was a silly boy, you know.

This is Gareth's mum.

I've changed all the names of Gareth's family members

to protect his identity.

And so I'm calling his mum Philippa.

So, you know, you were quite close.

Very.

And then this thing happened.

Yeah.

And it changed the relationship. It did.
Totally. I could this thing happened.
Yeah. And it changed the relationship.

It did.

Totally.

I could have killed her.

I could.

If I met her now, I think I'd strangle her.

She's ruined his life.

Because, um, things a boy at 14 shouldn't be doing. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm't you make me cry. Take your time.
Philippa's got short, stylish white hair. She looks far younger than her 82 years.
When did you first find out that there was some kind of relationship with a teacher? Do you remember what the first thing was? I think it was my son. Her older son, Freddie.
Gareth's the youngest of four kids. There's only two and a half years between Freddie and Gareth but lots of distance They don't talk anymore and Freddie didn't want to be involved in this podcast One evening, back in the late spring of 1988 Philip has just come home from work when Freddie says he needs to talk to her.
There are rumours going round the school, he tells her. I was worried sick.
So she waits for Gareth to get home and asks where he's been. He says what he always says, that he's been with his mates in Hendon, but she's not having any of it.
Was she shocked that these rumours were going on? Yeah, she went nuts. Obviously, my mum went nuts.
She knew something had changed as well. Your behaviour changed? Well, obviously.
I told my mum everything. My mum was on my sounding board, everything.
I was close to my mum. She replaced my mum as, what do you call it, appropriate adult or if you want to fucking light wave or whatever you want to say.
So you stopped talking to your mum and you pulled away from her? Yeah, obviously. That's why these rumours ring true for Philippa.
Gareth's been acting distant, avoiding her and staying out after school. Until now, she's always put that down to teenage hormones.
Did you then think about speaking to the school? I spoke to the school several times

and they didn't want to tell me anything.

Who did you speak to at the school?

Well, I spoke to Mr Tinch because he was head of year

and he was the only one that really I should be speaking to.

Desmond Tinch, Gareth's maths teacher.

Tall and thin, with a no-nonsense kind of attitude. But most boys think he's a pretty decent guy.
He's been counselling Gareth each week in his office, trying to help this bright boy reach his potential. So he seems like the obvious person for Philippa to call.
What would you have said to him, do you think? I'd ask, I'd say I'd heard the rumours and he would say oh no it's a load

of nonsense. He denied it always but I don't know, you can't get to speak to him, you won't get to speak to him.
If you try to get him to say something you won't, you won't get hold of him. Did you try to? Yes, many times.
I can believe that staff might not have had time to bother with every little rumour circulating around the playground. But this is different.
From what Gareth's former classmate Gavin remembers, this is all happening in plain sight. For anyone paying attention, it's obvious.
and anyway now a concerned parent is asking the school to investigate because she thinks there might be something to the rumours about her son and this teacher. You would imagine this would set off alarms, activating some kind of formal process, you know, internal procedures, that kind of thing.
But Philippa says when she does finally manage to talk to Mr Tinch, he tells her he isn't concerned about Miss Bowen and Gareth. He says there's something else he wants to investigate.
What did Mr Tinch tell you? He said, do you think he's on something? Mr Tinch advises Philippa to check whether Gareth's on drugs. He's just been told a member of staff may be having sex with a child and his response is to bat it back and ask if that child is doing something illegal.
But Philippa's desperate to understand what's happening to her son, so she latches on to this. Maybe Mr Tinch is right.
Her son's hostile behaviour, the lies, staying out late, these could all be signs he's on drugs. And that's when I called in Dr Ferris at night.
So she turns to her family GP. And she came straight away late on the Friday night.
Dr Ferris has her medical bag with her and takes out a syringe.

And she took a blood test and we took it up to the hospital straight away that night. And it was clear.
You must have been relieved. Well, yes, but what was it? You mean if it wasn't drugs? Yes, exactly.
the medical note Dr Ferris took that night provides one of the only pieces of hard evidence I've seen from the time. It says in a typical doctor's scrawl, school called mother thought Gareth might be having an affair with female teacher.
Now, according to Philippa, it was her that called

the school and the doctor got mixed up when she jotted it down in a hurry. Either way,

the crucial thing is the note suggests the school knew about the allegations.

I've tried to put myself in Philippa's shoes. I'd do anything to find out the truth.
I'd tell myself I'd have followed my son after school to see what he was doing. But Philippa was a single mum with four kids.
She didn't have the luxury of time to spare. No, I was too busy.
I was doing two jobs. And I came out at half past nine at night and went home and cooked the dinner for the boys.
What about calling the police then? Philippa says back when she was breaking up with Gareth's dad and he was drinking lots, he'd hit her. When she ran to the police station to ask for help and told the officer at the front desk what happened, the police said go home and be a good little wife.
This is the late 80s, don't forget, before there are even laws against husbands raping their wives. It was still illegal to have sex with children under the age of 16, though.
But Philippa has no faith in the police.

And anyway, what would she tell them? She has no hard evidence and Gareth's denying everything. So she clings to the hope that maybe, just maybe, she's worrying about nothing.
Maybe there's nothing more to it than flirting and playground rumours. what I'm trying to get my head around at this stage is what were senior staff at the school thinking? Sure, safeguarding back then wasn't what it is today.
Child abuse was a fairly new idea. It had only become an official term a few years before and mainly referred to physical and psychological abuse and neglect.
It wouldn't be until July that year, 1988, when the first guidance would be published for how schools, local authorities and other public institutions should be working together to protect children from abuse. So the school might not have had specific guidance to follow in cases like this.

But we're talking about something clearly illegal here.

A member of staff hired by the school to educate and protect students

having sex with somebody under the age of consent, a child.

And the school would have been obliged to report a crime. Is it possible that, even with Philippa's phone calls, they didn't credit the rumours? No way, says Gavin, who was in Gareth's class at the time.
They would have known within months of it happening or the relationship starting that something was going on. And you could see that happening? Yeah.
It was like really obvious? Yeah, yeah, everybody knew it. So everybody knew.
There was no secret and it wasn't hidden. So the school would have known, the teachers? 100%.
100%. There is absolutely no doubt,

because there are always other teachers on duty as well,

so there is no doubt that they would have noticed this relationship building. There should have been a discussion, an investigation.
Gareth should have been given support. And to be honest, we've met someone new.
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on a Thursday I can tell you this

for a fact

on a Thursday

we had games

all after On a Thursday, I can tell you this for a fact, on a Thursday we had games all afternoon. Thursday games, I used to go for her house all afternoon and Thursday was like a day I had lots of sex.
One of those Thursdays, Gareth's brother Freddie is waiting for Philippa, his mum, when she gets home from work again.

This time, he tells her he's seen Gareth and Miss Bowen walking together miles from the school during school hours.

They'd gone for a drink in a pub near Gareth's house.

She tried to buy me alcohol, but they weren't going for the school trousers and white shirt business they clocked up as a kid. I mean, you've seen pictures of me.
It's not hard to know I was a kid, whatever I was dressed in. So she gets him a glass of Coke.
When they get up to leave, he does something on a 14-year-old's whim. He opens up his school bag and slips both their empty glasses inside.
Mementos from a romantic afternoon, perhaps. He remembers thinking his mum might be quite pleased with a couple of new glasses.
I don't know, I'm going to say something that embarrassed my mother. Maybe we were light on glasses in the house or something.
I don't know why, why I took these glasses home, but I did take them home. The pub's round the corner from his house, so he pops in to drop off his school bag and he leaves the glasses in the kitchen sink.
Then he rushes back out to meet Miss Bowen again and they spend the rest of the afternoon in bed round at her place. So when he gets home later that evening, he has no idea what his mum knows.
Did you see your brother? No, I didn't. Philip has gone to the kitchen sink and seen these glasses sitting in there.
Glasses she knows aren't hers. And one of them had lipstick on.
Yeah, one with lipstick on. So that sent her into fucking palpitations,

obviously, because she probably thought we were having sex in the house. And so when you got home that night, you got into a...
I got that, yeah. That night, I did get it.
And he said that they hadn't been in the house. And I knew they'd been in the house.
Because glasses were there. You know you said you were angry with him

Did you try and get him to confide in you? I tried so often, but he wouldn't have it. He wouldn't tell me a thing.
Philip is feeling desperate. So the next morning, she picks up the phone and tries Gareth's head of year again, Mr Tinch.
This time he has some big news for her. And he said to me, well the problem will now stop because she'll no longer be teaching again.
And these are the specific words Philippa remembers him using, that it doesn't matter now anyway because Miss Bowen's leaving at the end of term. And I'd been assured that she would never teach again by Mr Tinch.
For Philippa, this seems to be some kind of recognition by the school. No member of staff was admitting anything and she hadn't been sacked, but it felt like a sort of wink and a nod that the issue had been quietly resolved for her and for the school that evening philipa tells gareth about the call with mr tinch and tinch said to her oh it doesn't matter anymore imagine this right it doesn't matter anymore she's leaving anyway and she'll never work again that's what he said she'll never teach again she'll never teach again yeah that's what

he said so it's all right that he's been having sex with your son because we got rid of her and she's never going to work again but the law of the land was that you couldn't have sex with 14 year olds in 1988 yeah so hang on a minute did he confirm it to her well if if that's not confirmation if she rings up and says i definitely know they were seen in edgware together and he says to her, it doesn't matter anymore.

What doesn't matter anymore?

What's the issue she's Confirmation. If she rings up and says, I definitely know they were seen in Edgware together and he says to her, it doesn't matter anymore.

What doesn't matter anymore?

What's the issue she's raising with you, right?

Which is that she's having sex with my 15 year old son at that point.

So yes, I'd say that was confirmation.

If ever there was confirmation from the school, I would say that was confirmation.

It's a really big deal, this allegation,

that the school was warned that a member of their staff was committing a serious crime, sex with a minor.

And instead of referring it to the authorities

and launching a proper independent investigation, they quietly just made it all go away. Any kind of formal process would have entailed the risk that news of this relationship would travel out beyond the walls of the school.
And that would not have been good for an institution with such a good reputation. At the beginning of this podcast, I said isn't that story and for the most part that's true but it does fit into a broader pattern.
We know now that in so many historical cases in boarding schools, children's homes, the church and other establishments people did cover up abuse and shield abusers in order to preserve reputations. I need to know what the teachers remember about all this.
And at this point, I'm trying very hard to reach them. But most are in their 70s and they don't have a big online presence.
So I find myself getting out pen and paper and writing lots of old-fashioned letters and then waiting for a response. I'm not going to get to speak to any of them any time soon.
Former pupils are a little easier to track down, but even then, I'm hitting one dead end after another. People just don't reply, and those who do say they'd rather not get involved.
Hi, Chloe. I've heard about what's going going on and I've no interest in a witch hunt on a teacher about something that happened 30 odd years ago.
At some point I move on from friends of friends to WhatsApp groups where old boys stay in touch. I'm starting to work my way through them sending messages to one person another, until it comes to the attention of the administrator.
Evening, gents. Just a quick one.
My friends forward me the voice memo he posts to the group. A lady called Chloe has been trying to get in touch with some of us.
Over the last couple of days, some of you have been in touch with me about it she is fishing for stories about school i'm not particularly interested in it happened a long time ago and it's not my problem anymore so totally up to you guys what you want to do i even managed to get hold of two former pupils who are headmasters today neither of them want want to be part of this podcast, not even anonymously. The problem is that Gareth was a misfit, an outsider, and he wasn't much liked by many of his classmates.
As far as these guys are concerned, Gareth was lucky enough to end up with this teacher that they all fancied, and now he's complaining about it. So even if they do know something, they aren't super keen to corroborate his story.
Of course, there would be no need for witnesses if the school had carried out a proper investigation into the allegations back then. But maybe they did investigate informally.
Around the end of June or beginning of July 1988, Gareth meets Miss Bowen after school as usual, but on this particular day, he finds her white as a sheet and really shaken up. And she was just like, they know, they know.
And I was like, what do you mean they know? Like, how do they know? Like, what do they know? And she said, no, they know, they know. They called me in for a meeting.
Miss Bowen tells Gareth the meeting was with four men. The headmaster, but also Des Tinch, the yearhead who Gareth's mum's been trying to engage with.
There's another male teacher there and a man she doesn't recognise. The four of them confront her about the rumours and when she tries to deny it, they say, don't bother because we know.
She can finish the last few weeks of the summer term, they tell her, but after the summer holidays, her contract won't be renewed. And then when we're walking,'re walking, she's, like, looking behind her and, like, she said, I think someone followed us.
At this point in the conversation, Miss Bowen and Gareth are on their usual route, walking from the bus stop to her house. And I kind of said to her, like, don't be silly, like, because I wasn't a stupid kid.
I said to her, all they've got to do is pull up in that road right there, outside your house, watch me come out, with all my hair ruffled and my shirt out, and I've been in there two hours, and bish bash bosh, guess who's a genius? It doesn't take a genius to work that out. And when I said that to her, I could see on her, oh, fuck, yeah, that's true.
Well, it was true, and that's probably what they did. So you think that they went and stood up?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got no doubt about it. The way she said that they were so definitive

in knowing that that is how they knew. Because it's fucking simple, isn't it?

This account about the meeting comes third-hand, is what Gareth remembers Miss Bowen telling

him. But an agreement does seem to have been reached in that room between the male teachers and Miss Bowen.
You leave quietly and that will be the end of the matter. If that meeting did happen as Miss Bowen described it, I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall.
Did they ever even consider reporting Miss Bowen to the authorities? Was she panicking at this point? Yeah, at that point there she was panicking, big time. But the thing is, nothing came of it.
So it just all calmed down and we just carried on. Just a few days later, Gareth finds himself alone in a room with one of those men who told Miss Bowen she had to go.

It's his weekly counselling session with Mr Tinch.

What would you talk about in the sessions with Tinch?

Um, I don't know. I can't even remember.

If it would have been general things like my behaviour or my work or what I expected from life or what I wanted to do with life. Did you like him back then? Yeah, probably, if I'm honest.
You see, the thing is, again, I always come across it and I have to try and be really disciplined with myself in the sense of what I felt back then and what I feel now.

So Gareth walks into that office with his heart pounding because he's sure Mr Tinch is going to ask him about it all.

It's their final session of the year and at the end of it,

Gareth says, Mr Tinch looks him in the eye and asks,

is there anything else you want to tell me?

Gareth says no and that's the end of it.

There were so many times

responsible adults could have intervened.

That day in his office

Mr Tinch had an opportunity.

Even if Gareth had denied it

which by the way he admits he probably would have

Mr Tinch could have at

very least let him know he would be there when he was ready to talk. But he didn't.
Years later, Gareth will turn to Mr Tinch, hoping he'll act as a witness. But Des Tinch will say he never even heard a rumour about him and Miss Bowen.
what's amazing to me is that

that meeting from what she said to you sounds like they felt they had incontrovertible evidence. Yes.
And they never came to ask you about it. No, that isn't that interesting.
And they never stopped the relationship continuing. No, they didn't.
So, Gareth and Miss Bowen stopped looking over their shoulders. Because it's obvious that, despite the confrontation by senior staff, no one's going to do a thing to stop them.
No one's protecting Gareth. Just before the end of term, Gareth gets really bold.
He sneaks up the school tower to the science block. It's during break when he knows no one else is there.
And he corners Miss Bowen in the chemistry lap and he kisses her. It's the only time he's ever dared be physical with her on school grounds.

But at this point, he feels that nothing and no one's going to come between them.

In that summer, it was me and her, right?

Against the world.

Like, we were powerful, right? This is Chloe, Chloe Hatch Chloe, hi It's a bit of a blast from the past, I'll explain but is this a good time to talk? This is a former Christ College boy who was a couple of years above Gareth at the school He's someone I used to know fairly. At one point he was going out with a good friend of mine but I haven't spoken to him in years so I'd almost forgotten all about him.
When I call he says he's happy for me to use what he says over the phone as long as I don't use his name or his real voice. And what he does is try to set out for me what he and many other former Christ College boys think about all this.
I know the person you're talking about, but, you know, this is my line. Whatever happened was completely consensual between the kid and her.
I mean, it wasn't like there was nothing sinister about her at all. Sorry, so you're saying it was completely consensual between this 14-year-old and the 27-year-old woman? Well, he knew what he was doing because, well, at 14, we knew what we were doing.
There was no, like, there was nothing abusive. It was just a very opportunistic 14-year-old, you know, who fancied a teacher because all the boys fancied her.
And I don't think he in any way has been abused by her. I mean, I find that ridiculous.
And if the school's covering it up, I think it's maybe because they think it's not a big deal, personally.

That's my take on it.

I mean, this is, what, 1986?

I mean, we were living in a different time, weren't we, compared to now,

when this is, like, you know, considered abusive.

But at that time, it was just like, I don't know, it was a different world.

I'm trying to think of the word. It was a much more innocent time.
And there was nothing malicious at all, in my opinion. It's a strange way of putting it, an innocent time.
When an adult, a teacher, could have sex with a child and it wasn't thought of as abuse. Honestly, it feels like the reverse to me, like innocence being stolen in a lesser wear time.
But that's how lots of pupils saw it back then and still see it today. And maybe it goes some way to explaining the attitude of the teachers to all this too.
But a lot can happen in 30 years.

Time weighs heavily on guilty consciences.

I can't help but wonder whether one of the teachers might be ready to talk.

You'd have to, that's not a question for me to answer, is it?

That's a question for them to answer.

Next time on Lucky Boy.

It was just like, wow, what kind of school is it?

There's a closing of ranks then and now.

What's the point in lying at his time of life? I mean, I think the school was terrible if they allowed Miss Bowen to go on and teach for 35 years. Sally-Anne Bowen denies having any kind of sexual relationship with Gareth.
She also denies she was asked to leave Christ College School. Lucky Boys reported by me, Chloe Hadjimathay.

The producers, Gary Marshall.

Additional production from Rebecca Moore.

Sound design is by Hannah Varrell.

Original music by Tom Kinsella.

Podcast artwork by Lola Williams.

The voice actors in this episode were Robin Edwards,

Andrew Butler and John Jones.

And the executive producer is

Basha Cummings. If you or someone you know has experienced the issues covered in this episode, there are places you can reach out to.
If you have any concerns about a child, then you can contact the NSPCC's helpline by calling 0808 800 500 or emailing help at nspcc.org.uk or visiting their website. Children can contact Childline and talk to an impartial counsellor.
No concern is too big or small to discuss. Simply call 0800 1111

or visit their website for a one-to-one chat. For general concerns or talk, adults can contact

the Samaritans on 116 123 or email joe at samaritans.org. That's joe at samaritans.com.
Progressive Casualty Insurance Company. Coverage provided and serviced by affiliated and third-party insurers.
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Sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com slash podcast. Hey, I'm Brad Milkey.
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