Do not say my name | Dangerous Memories Ep 3

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Tortoise.

Just a warning before we start.

This episode contains references to child abuse and to sexual assault.

After she'd bicycled away, and I didn't know where she'd bicycled to.

So, you know, I was in absolute, I was in a terrible state.

I mean, really, really bad, just worrying and worrying.

And did you have any idea where she was or any means of finding out where she was? No, no. No, she never came back.
When Huey's mum, Sarah, watched her daughter disappear into the distance, she had no idea what had led her to leave. What Sarah remembers about the confrontation is how the look on Huey's face changed.
Initially, when she saw Sarah, she seemed surprised, but then her eyes glazed over like a zombie, Sarah said, and then she left with no explanation. What Sarah didn't know then was that under the guidance of Anne Craig, Huey had decided to turn her back on not just her family, but her whole world.
By this point, she was two years in to her sessions with Anne. She moved out of the pub and was living alone.
It was just her and her cat sleeping on the floor of a single room above a car wash. She'd cut ties with her family and she'd stopped speaking to all her friends.
Hughie was now totally isolated and totally consumed by her work with Anne. In fact, she was so consumed that she had no space for a full-time job.
She was short of money, hungry and cold. At one point, she reached out to a homeless shelter for living support.
Of course, there were so many people Huey knew who had plenty of money

and accommodation to spare as well. But accepting gifts or financial support from the people she'd

cut ties with was discouraged. It would interfere with her journey to healing.

I couldn't afford heating in my house. I couldn't, if the gas bottle ran ran out I'd be cold in the middle of the winter so I'd be taken into her warm cozy home I'd be given a warm cup of tea she'd have her soft voice speaking to me and it became she became my only source of comfort and my only source of of homeliness and love and even just a phone call from her, you know, my world would light up and the room would light up and everything would be kind of glowing orange, and as soon as I'd hang up the call from her, I'd be back in cold, blue-toned, negative emotions because I was constantly frightened, constantly alone and had no one and nothing.
Hughie was now totally dependent on Anne. And what I'd like to go across as well is that she did have a God complex.
Her self-confidence that she was the only person on this earth that was light and good and true, was so magnetic that it was really easy to believe her. Anne represented light, and everyone else was darkness.
And now it was just the two of them, alone on their journey, without interference from the outside world. But the world was about to close in on Anne.
I'm Grace Hughes-Hallett, and from Tortoise, this is Dangerous Memories. Episode three, Do Not Say My Name.
She called me one morning and she was absolutely frantic. It's the first time I've heard her really frantic.
And I think I woke up late and there were so many missed calls from her, messages from her saying, call me, call me, call me. And she said one of her ex-clients was trying to sue her.
That ex-client was Phipsy.

While Huey was becoming more entwined in Anne's web,

Phipsy was putting her freedom to use.

By now, her curiosity about what had happened to her,

about whether she had been manipulated into some kind of cult,

had turned to anger.

And she wanted to let Anne know that she was on her case.

So she wrote her an email,

and in it she demanded a refund of the money she'd spent

on the sessions with Anne.

She set a deadline, and if that passed,

Phipsy said she would take further action.

As I said, if I do not have the money in my bank by the 15th of May, I will have to take

further action.

You should also know that I am not alone.

There are other past clients of yours who feel the same and are more than willing to

take it further.

If for some reason you wish to contact me, please do so over...

Anne told Huey about this email.

And she was so panicky about it. It was the first time that Anne seemed to be vulnerable.
But if Phipsy had hoped that her letter would bring an end to Anne's sessions with her remaining clients, she was mistaken. And I think what really stays with me is the fact that she said, this isn't about me.
They're not trying to sue me because it's anything to do with me they're not angry with me it's you they want they want you off the journey Huey they don't want you to get to the light and so it was another part of me feeling frightened of of these people that I'd like let go because I was being told that look at the lengths that they'll go to to make sure that you never are happy that you never reach your dreams you never reach your goals they'll they're prepared to take me down just to destroy you so it was this constant panic and nervous system being in panic mode and and kind of clinging to Anne Moore thinking oh my gosh she's this poor victim that's being attacked by these people. And she's protecting me, and she's the only veil between me and them.
Phipsy's letter had inadvertently fuelled Anne's narrative. It's us versus them.
When Huey decided to leave her friends and family behind, she didn't just stop replying to them.

She effectively went on the run.

After the confrontation with her mum,

Huey started looking for a new place to live,

a new address where Sarah and the rest of the family wouldn't be able to find her. She went online and found an advert on Gumtree.

I'm a single female, aged 25.

I'm a teacher of art as well as being an artist.

A woman called Lee was looking for a lodger.

She wanted someone who could live in her spare room in Kensal Rise

at a discounted rate in return for babysitting her children. I just thought she was absolutely lovely.
She was really open. I never took references from lodgers.
I know it's really weird when you live alone with kids, but I always trust my judgment when it comes to people and I'd never really been wrong and she just seemed perfect. Lee liked Huey's reply to her ad and she liked her when she came round for a chat.
So Huey moved in straight away in late 2013. Me and my producer Gary went to meet with Lee at her home recently.
We sat in the living room right below the room that Huey used to stay in. It was clear pretty quickly that Lee's very laid back and has an accepting approach to life.
But there were things that were odd so she'd burn all this paper and then I kept finding little piles of ash around the like around the garden in the bushes. She was very just kind of blase about it and just said, oh, it's an artist technique that I was taught.
When you want to start painting, you just scribble down all the thoughts in your head and then you burn them and you don't reread them and it just clears your mind and you burn them and get rid of them. Then there the time lee found her in a vest covered in sweat attacking her best sofa cushions with a cricket bat everything she did was quite delicate and suddenly she was kind of beating the crap out of the sofa and she just kind of went oh it's just um it's just a technique to get anger out before you paint Lee wrote it off as the behaviour of a quirky artist at first.

About a month It's just a technique to get anger out before you paint.

Lee wrote it off as the behaviour of a quirky artist at first.

About a month after Huey had moved in,

Lee started to ask her what she had planned for Christmas.

The house was going to be empty because she was heading off to Ireland with her children.

And she said she was just going to stay at hours,

which I thought was odd at 25 to be on your own for Christmas. So I remember, you know, just saying, oh, my God, you know, you don't want to be on your own at Christmas.
And she just kind of went, oh, God, you know what? I've always been with my family. And she went, this year, I think I just really want, you know, the peace and quiet.
I just want to have a day um and be on my own and that was that was probably my very first observation that maybe she wasn't quite such a happy-go-lucky 25 year old she never seemed to go out she never she just went to work came back so obviously that made me wonder what was going on. Like Sarah, Lee didn't have an answer to that question.

Huey kept the details of her time with Anne's secret. Lee had no idea Anne even existed.
And Huey kept herself to herself. She'd found a part-time job teaching art that she would go off to.
And when she wasn't at work, she stayed around the house. She lived a quiet life.
But in the other part of her life, with Anne, a lot was going on. When I was living with Lee, a lot of stuff was coming up about my mum in sessions with Anne, so Anne really started to hone in on my mum.
She asked Huey to focus her writing and thoughts on her mum. She suggested there was something to uncover involving Sarah.
But it was up to Huey to work out exactly what had happened. She was tasked with uncovering the pieces, as Anne them pieces to complete the puzzle and reveal the bigger picture all part of the effort to get to the root of the problem Huey desperately tried to remember what might have happened to her when she was younger but she she just couldn't.
I had no memories of any of it. So it confused me a lot, why can't I remember any of this? But Anne said, would say that, you know, when the trauma is so severe, a lot of children who've been abused can't remember.
But she desperately wanted to please Anne, her only source of comfort. And I had this session this session with her it was like a four-hour session and I remember it got to the end of the session I was in floods of tears I was like I don't know Anne I can't remember anything I can't see anything nothing's coming up in my drawings or my writing and I was crying crying crying crying crying and she was like okay fine I will tell you what happened so it was always anne telling me what happened it never came from me so she was like when your mother and told huey things about sarah that were graphic and extreme of course they were also untrue and we've decided not to repeat them in detail it just just painted this picture of my mum as this absolute monster.
And ultimately, it was Anne who painted the picture, not Huey. Huey had no memory of the scenarios Anne was describing.
But back then, Anne was the only voice she was listening to. Anne knew Huey better than she knew herself, or so she thought.
So she started to believe it might be true. And this feels like a really important distinction between memory and belief.
Huey didn't have any memories of these episodes, but she believed they had happened to her.

When you condense that pivotal moment down to a couple of minutes in a podcast, it's hard to understand how that gap between a real memory and a belief in a fabricated one could be bridged. But the way I've started to think about it, it's like those cases of false confessions that have led to wrongful convictions, when, during police interrogation, a vulnerable suspect says they're guilty of a crime they didn't in fact commit.
Research has proven that hours of intensive interviewing with coercive questioning can lead you to say something that isn't true, and even to believe it. And as Huey said, it never came from me.
That the mother she'd adored her whole life was, in fact, her abuser. I've always been so attached to her and loved her so much.
and I just remember just going into this total, by this point, this total space of like collapse. Like I couldn't, I just stopped being able to function.
Huey left Anne's house burdened with the weight of this new information. And she made her way across London, back to Lees.
I tried to sleep and it must have been the stress or the trauma or something but my dreams were so graphic and so vivid that it was kind of like I wasn't asleep. I couldn't really sleep and I had this major headache and my stomach was kind of being twisted into this knot and it felt like there was a knife cutting into my stomach.
I was in so much pain. It was as if Huey was having a physical reaction to what Anne had told her.
And the next morning I told Anne and she was like, oh this is about your freedom. It's showing you that nothing is blocking you anymore, that you found one of the most traumatic pieces you could find,

what your mother did to you, you're now free.

But the pain kept returning.

This is only happening at night because I was abused at night

and this is the severity of the abuse coming out.

My body is kind of purging it all.

Hours into her third night of enduring this agony,

even knowing that Anne said this was necessary catharsis, Huey couldn't bear it anymore. She went to Lee for help.
I woke up one morning and she was in my bedroom and said that she hadn't slept and she was in total pain and could I take her to A&E. I just broke down on her floor and was like, please help me, Lee, please help me.
I can't cope, something's happening to me. And I didn't ask Anne's permission.
It was just something that I had to do. Normally I'd need her permission for everything.
Blinded by the pain, she was too distracted to think about how Anne would react. She took me to the hospital and Anne called me outside the hospital and she said, you know, whatever you do, when you go in there, do not say my name.
Do not say that you're working with me. Do not say that you just say that a friend is helping you, but you cannot mention me, you cannot talk about me.
So I remember being like, why, why? I remember being quite confused. Why, what's she so panicky about? Why is she telling me I can't talk about her? She's always saying that the work she does is so pure and so amazing.
Why, why, why am I not allowed to talk about her? To me, this feels like another indicator of Anne's self-awareness. If Anne believed she was helping Huey and doing beneficial work with her, what did she have to hide from the doctors? Along with Anne's motive, something else I've struggled with through this investigation is whether Anne might actually have believed the lies she was leading or

trying to lead her clients to believe, or whether the truth is something darker, that

she knew she was lying to them. Like the encrypted emails and the instructions

to burn all homework, this panicked order to not say her name feels to me like a covering

of tracks. Which makes me wonder, did she know she was leading Huey down a dangerous

path and was doing it anyway? When Huey got off the phone to Anne, a doctor came into the room to ask her about her symptoms. And they said, you know, who do you see, what's going on, asked me loads of questions.
And I was just probably quite, um, shit, you know, reserved and bit kind of cagey and which they were picked up on and they said well look if you're not going to tell us any details then you know maybe you just have IBS. Huey kept her word to Anne and didn't tell the doctors about what she was dealing with.

With little to go on, they stepped away.

And in a state of panic, Huey got back on the phone to Anne.

She was in tears, with the doctors unable to do anything for her.

She was very afraid of the pain returning that night.

And then a doctor came in afterwards and they said,

we've heard you on the phone, who are you speaking to? And I said, oh no, no one. They were like, no, we've heard you on the phone who are you speaking to and I said oh no no one.
They were like no we just heard you on the phone who are you speaking who are you crying to and asking for what to say and I was like oh it's just a friend and I started feeling really panicky. I think that's when they said oh we'll bring in someone who can do a more thorough assessment with you and I just asked for sleeping pills basically and they they gave me sleeping pills and a prescription but they kept wanting to know you know what was really going on and I didn't I couldn't say anything it's a measure of how entangled in Anne's web she'd become and how dependent on her permission she was, that Huey kept Anne secret.

The doctors had extended their hands, offering their support, but it would mean letting outsiders

into the protective world that only Anne and Huey lived in. Huey had a journey to complete,

and as painful as it was, she was convinced she needed to complete it alone. So later that day, Lee came to pick her up from hospital, and when they got in the car, Lee started to probe.
The odd behaviour was just getting harder and harder to justify. The way Huey was at home had become increasingly bizarre, like the time when Huey's beloved cat had been bitten by another cat and developed an infected leg.
Lee took Huey and the cat to her vet, who prescribed antibiotics, but Huey ignored the vet's advice. Instead, she started treating the infection with white bread.
She'd keep it in the freezer. She would take a piece out, dunk it in boiling water and then wrap it round the cat's foot and then cling film round the bread.
I do remember many an evening where we were all in the kitchen kind of cooking dinner and in the background here we had the cat pinned on the shelf trying to get this white bread on. She was like antibiotics are really bad for the cat and this draws the poison out slowly and I said where did you get this from? She said something like, oh, a lady that knows a lot about animals or something.
This episode with the cat, Huey burning more and more of her writing in the garden despite Lee asking her to stop. And now this weird hospital trip.
It all made Lee think it was time to start asking some questions.

And I said, OK, so, like, what do they think's wrong?

And I remember just, I really couldn't get much out of her,

but I remember as we were driving up, we were about a mile from the house,

and she just said, I've got a bit of PTSD, post-traumatic stress.

I don't know if she said PTSD, and I said, what from? And she said, oh, something that's happened in my childhood. And I said, oh, you know, really sorry to hear that.
And that's all she ever said about what was going on. Obviously, that made me concerned a bit because she'd been hospitalised and they couldn't find anything physically wrong with her.

I then did kind of start thinking, you know, what is going with you?

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When these big pieces would come out,

Anne would be very loving towards me,

so I'd get a lot of love.

I would get all those stress relieving vibes from her and I guess that made me then just very much want to believe that all this was true, which makes me sound really awful. Perhaps, if she'd had the ear of a single friend or family member, the physical breakdown might have been the moment that Huey pulled away from Anne.
But instead, with everyone in her old life cast into the darkness, Huey started to work even harder. And it was around this time that it started kind of coming out this belief that I'd been abused as a child, but also that the abuse was somehow linked to this wider network of a paedophile ring.
Anne started telling Huey that the abuse she now believed she'd suffered and repressed was part of something

even more sinister, something bigger that Huey couldn't yet comprehend. But it started to more be about using art and my gift and uncovering childhood memories to heal people who'd been raped and to help people, women and children, by suffering myself I could help people to be liberated from abuse and it felt like I was on this, I had this really deep purpose and this really deep mission and I felt part of something which felt so important.
So that was a big shift in my process with her. I can't know what Anne was reading and watching in her moments alone.
But it is interesting that the news cycle around this time was dominated by the Jimmy Savile scandal. In 2013, the same year that Huey moved in with Lee,

the celebrated English TV personality and DJ was labelled a prolific predatory sex offender, following a police investigation that revealed hundreds of sexual offences across half a century, and over 70% of his victims were children.

And Anne wove this scandal into her sessions with Huey. When the Jimmy Savile case came out, which was massive, she was like, this is coming up because of our work.
This is coming up because we have uncovered. And that was such a massive, so there's all these like affirming things that happened to make you believe like, oh, we're changing the world, which is what she was promised we were doing.
So Huey's mission was now about more than just her own experiences. It was just one part of a paedophilia problem.
One that seemed to be embedded in the rich and famous circles of British society, one that Anne Craig was determined to fix. Again, Huey was instructed to find the pieces to make sense of the puzzle.
Anne said that she needed to work out what happened herself to figure out how her abuse was part of something much bigger. So Huey started looking for signs in everything because Anne placed as much importance on signs in everyday life as she did on dreams.
I'd overheard a couple of conversations

she was having on the phone. She was pacing up and down outside and I remember one, I'd heard

an ice cream van go past half an hour ago and I heard her really angrily on the phone to someone.

As the search for the pieces became more intense, Huey's behaviour became harder to hide from Lee. And given she was never on the phone, it was really weird because I'd never even seen her talk to anyone on the phone because she never seemed to have friends.
But I heard her saying, I just need you to tell me what the meaning of the ice cream ban is. And I was thinking, like, what the hell? Like, it's an ice cream ban.
And she was going, yeah, but I've heard it before, and I've heard it again, I heard it this afternoon. Like, what's that? What is that? She had no idea that it was Anne on the other end of the phone, offering her analysis of what Hughie was seeing, fuelling the search.

Those are the kind of pieces that Anne was always trying to get to.

But by the time we were working on the paedophile ring,

I couldn't get to this source of information

because my brain was so fried and scrambled

and terrified all the time.

And then I obviously felt like I was always letting her down because I couldn't give her those answers. When Huey was a young girl, she and her family left London for Monaco.
It's the tiny microstate on the French Riviera, with a reputation as a tax haven and a home to wealthy residents with luxurious lifestyles. But at four years old, Huey was oblivious to that.
To her, it was a turbulent time. She'd landed in a school where the staff and the other children only spoke French.
And she never really knew why they had to move. In fact, by the time she was seeing Anne, she was still unclear.
So all these kind of conspiracy theories started coming out in my sessions with her, me trying to guess and trying to guess why we really moved to Monaco. Huey could recall some memories from that time in her life that she knew to be true.
And Anne told her that one particular memory was a sign. Four years old, I started at school in Monaco, and it's a French school.
Couldn't speak French, I didn't have any friends, I was being bullied. No one was picking up on it, so I was pretty, like, down.
It was a very big school, and so my way of trying to get people to like me is I would take toys from home, and I'd give them to children at the school to try and get

them to like me and then one day I obviously took it too far because we gave the teacher my mum's

camera to try and be like like me please like love me and obviously my mum was like where the hell's

my camera so fair enough Sarah went to the school to get her camera back. But Huey's teacher didn't have it.
So all of the kids in her class were made to stand up and bring any toys they had in their desks up to the front of the class until they found what they were looking for. Huey was mortified and Sarah was upset with her daughter.
And Anne was like, well, why was your mother so angry? What was she really angry about? What was on that camera? Was the first question she asked from just a normal memory. Already a huge suggestion there's something on this camera that your mother didn't want the teacher to see.
And this is where Huey says Anne took control of the narrative and suggested a new idea, the beginnings of a new false memory. My mother was taking pictures of children for the paedophile ring.
And from that story came this other story that the teacher saw what was on the camera. My mother was being investigated by social services.
We were maybe going to be taken away from her, but somehow the truth didn't come out. Sarah's always been religious, and she got involved with the church when they moved to Monaco.

In fact, she started running a Sunday school there.

That much is true.

But Anne led Huey to believe that Sarah

was taking pictures of children at the Sunday school

and offering them up to this elite paedophile ring

as a means of funding the family's life. You've got to bear in mind in the therapeutic situation, you've got someone there, the client who is vulnerable.
This is Chris French. He's a psychologist and emeritus professor at Goldsmiths University in London.
His special interests are the psychology of paranormal beliefs and of false memories. I went to him because I was finding it hard to get my head around how Huey was led to believe such extreme untruths about her own past.
They've gone there with a problem that they want help with. They view the therapist, whether it's a therapist, a counsellor, a clinical psychologist, whoever it may be, as an expert.
They're given a very coherent and plausible rationale,

you know, this idea that traumatic memories will be repressed or dissociated, however you want to put it, and that we've got to recover those memories because that's the only way you're going to get better. So they're very, very strongly motivated to find those memories that they weren't aware of, but they are now convinced must be there somewhere.
And that is a very, very powerful cocktail for the production of false memories. And the techniques that they actually use, we now know from well-controlled experimental work, are precisely those which would actually tend to produce false memories for entire episodes of things that never actually happened at all.
Chris explained to me how the phrase false memory syndrome grew out of a talking therapy boom in the 80s and 90s, primarily in the States, but also in the UK. At the beginning of the therapy, they had no recollection at all of ever being the victim of childhood sexual abuse.
But by the time the therapy was finished, they were convinced that they had been the victims, typically at the victim of childhood sexual abuse but by the time the therapy was finished

they were convinced that they had been the victims typically at the hands of their own parents he explained to me that through experiments psychologists have since figured out the techniques used to produce false memories the most famous example is one that's become known as the lost in a shopping mall technique.

They got a teenage boy and they told the teenage boy that they were interested in his memory for childhood events and that they'd got a list of four things that happened during his childhood and they wanted to just see how much he could remember about those events. The researchers had gathered three true facts about his childhood from his family members.
Now of the things on the list really had happened but one was made up getting lost in a shopping mall i think it's about the age of five and being very upset and then being reunited with his parents and what they did was to see you know ask him what he could remember about these events typically people, people don't remember anything about the false event,

but they say, well, go away and just think about it,

and we'll interview you again in a week,

and we'll see if you can remember any more.

And you repeat this a couple of times.

And typically, using techniques like that,

you can implant false memories for entire episodes

in not everybody, but a sizeable minority.

And again, for some of those people,

it might not be a very clear memory.

Whether she was doing it consciously or not,

what Anne appeared to be doing with Huey

matches up with Chris's knowledge

of how implanting false memories works.

You find out a number of things

that actually did happen to someone,

and onto those true memories, you tag your false one, your lie. Can this happen to anyone? Or is there a certain type of person who is more vulnerable to it than others? There has been a lot of research looking at whether certain people are more susceptible to false memories.
We do have information on various kind of personality characteristics that seem to correlate in a very general sense. And it tends to be things that relate to imagination.
If you are somebody with a very good imagination, there's a concept in psychology of what's called fantasy proneness. If you're a fantasy prone person, as the name suggests,

you spend a lot of time daydreaming,

you're in a little world of your own, often very, very creative

people. That's really interesting

with regards to this story

because this particular group

of young women are all very

artistic and creative.

How interesting.

I think they'd be really interested

to hear that as well. Some kind person gave me the number of a private detective.

Huey's family had no idea about this mission that Huey had embarked on,

but they were doing their best to find out.

They were on their own mission.

I was able to keep track of her through this lovely, lovely private detective.

One of the first calls Sarah made after Huey cycled off into the distance was to a private detective. Hughie hadn't told anyone where she'd gone.
There were no leads to go on. But this guy said he could find her.
I remember being told that she was living in a house opposite the bush, the Shepherd's Bush Common. He tracked her down to where she was living with Lee.
They'd found her. Part of the mystery was solved.
Now they could devise a plan to get her back. Get her to explain what was going on and come home.
I think most parents would have the same reaction. Find out where your child is and do everything in your power to get them back as quickly as possible without really stopping to think about how.
And this decision of Sarah's would lead to a series of attempts to try and get Huey back. Because when we heard Sarah say she didn't see her daughter for six years, she hadn't quite finished.
The last time I saw her, in six years, except for three times when we ambushed her. By now, Lee was watching Huey unfold in front of her.
She was much more keeping herself to herself during this time. This was all, you know, very and one day when lee was alone at home a woman knocked on the door and answered and she said is huey here or does huey live here it was huey's aunt is huey here and i said she's not here and she said where is she and i said I honestly don't know I'm assuming she's at work I said she comes and goes as she pleases and and then she said do you know Anne? and I said who? and she was like do you know Anne Craig? the family had become suspicious about the only person Huey hadn't cut out of her life, Anne Craig.
And their persistence paid off. Lee was intrigued, so she started to talk with Huey's aunt over a coffee.
The aunt showed Lee photos of Huey when she was a younger, happier version of herself. And then she told me all the kind of things that they'd'd found out about ann and all the kind of strange behaviors that they weren't allowed this and they weren't allowed that and i don't know just slowly everything was falling into place sarah huey's mum knew that the family had to be careful that approaching huey uninvited might not end well.
But they kept trying, hoping to drag her out of this world she was spiralling deeper into. Over time, they tried again and again.
And a couple of times, they managed to get Huey as she was leaving Lees. So I would just start screaming at them and asking them to move aside and they'd move aside and I would just cycle off as fast as I could.
Huey's brother also went to Lee's house. Sarah and Henry tried too but it always ended in the same way.
And so they thought to themselves maybe they'd been confronting the wrong person. One morning I was going to Anne's house for a session and suddenly I just see this woman standing in the middle of the pavement with her back to me and her hands on her hip with a phone.
And I was like, that's my mother. Why is my mother outside Anne's house? And I went, she didn't see me, so I went around the back of the house I called Anne I was like Anne my mum is outside your house you know what do we do and as I was on the phone to her I heard this knock knock knock really loud knocking on the door which was my mum and Anne just said I'm calling the police yeah this is when it all starts to It just get really crazy.
Coming up on Dangerous Memories.

He said, I just want to let you know that I am going to be investigating your family, but I'm also going to be investigating Anne. And it just suddenly felt like the world came crashing down.
She was like, write it down, what is it?

And what I got was, I want to destroy you,

as in destroy Anne.

In the past, Anne Craig has issued categorical denials of any wrongdoing. She has denied responsibility for mentally abusing or psychologically manipulating clients.
She has said she is the victim of a campaign of harassment. If you're looking to speak to a reputable therapist or know someone who is, you can search the therapist directory compiled by the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy, or BACP.
Only registered members accredited by the Professional Standards Authority are listed, which ensures they meet high professional and ethical standards and are fully trained and qualified. Just go to bacp.co.uk.

If you'd like to get in touch with us about your own experience, you can send us an email.

It's dangerousmemories at tortoisemedia.com. app.
And you can listen to our previous investigations right here on Tortoise Investigates. Or to hear more podcasts from our award-winning newsroom, search for Tortoise wherever you get your podcasts.
Dangerous Memories was written and reported by me, Grace Hughes-Hallett, and by Gary Marshall. The producer is Gary Marshall.
Additional reporting and production

from Imogen Harper.

Additional editing from Claudia Williams.

Fact-checking was by Xavier Greenwood.

Sound design and original composition

from Tom Kinsella.

The theme music is

Far Gone, Don't Leave by Pictish Trail.

Podcast artwork by Lola Williams.

The commissioning editor was Basher Cummings.

The executive producer was Kerry Thomas.

Tortoise.