What’s next for BP?

Transcript

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Speaker 6 All right, I'm just going to get right to it. Uh-oh.

Speaker 6 That's it. That's the open

Speaker 6 from American Public Media. This is Marketplace.

Speaker 6 In Los Angeles, I'm Kai Risdall. It is Wednesday, today, the 12th of February.
Good as always to have you along, everybody.

Speaker 6 We have heard over the past year or so that inflation's bumpy, that it's sticky, that the last mile, as it were, to the Fed's desired landing at 2% is the hard part.

Speaker 6 Inflation is, in fact, turning out to be all of those things and maybe a little bit more, too.

Speaker 6 The January Consumer Price Index came out this morning, up half a percent month to month, 3% on a yearly basis, not what anybody wants to hear, obviously. And you can pick your favorite villain.

Speaker 6 Energy, hotels, airfare, they all went up. Shelter has been a persistent source of some of that stickiness.
It accounted for nearly a third of that monthly increase in this morning's report.

Speaker 6 And yes, that does sound bad. But as marketplace adjustin Ho reports, rent inflation has actually been coming down a bit lately.

Speaker 7 The labor department's definition of shelter costs includes rents, but it also includes what it calls lodging away from home.

Speaker 8 Just think of that as basically hotels when you go on vacation.

Speaker 7 That's Chen Zhao, head of economics research at the real estate company Redfin.

Speaker 7 She says those lodging costs went up in January, but rents have not been increasing so quickly, according to the Labor Department and Redfin's own data.

Speaker 8 What you'll see is that for the last two, two and a half years, rents have been really flat. And in some parts of the country, rents have even been falling.

Speaker 7 There are a lot of newly built apartments that are finally coming online, says Bill Adams, chief economist at Comerica Bank.

Speaker 10 He says this is happening the most in the Sunbelt, where there's lots of undeveloped land and where home building is cheaper and faster to do.

Speaker 7 But in other parts of the country, the pipeline of new apartments is still pretty constrained, especially in the northeast and the coastal west. And there?

Speaker 10 We're likely to see faster rent increases in markets that are adding less supply where construction is more expensive.

Speaker 7 The numbers of new apartment construction projects and building permits have been trending lower.

Speaker 7 Chen Zhao at Redfin says some contractors don't want to keep building apartments if rents are stagnant.

Speaker 8 Meanwhile, they're also facing very high financing costs because interest rates continue to be high.

Speaker 7 All of that means the supply of new apartments could start to dwindle, says Ben Ayers, senior economist at nationwide.

Speaker 11 You know, a year from now, two years from now, we might be back in this similar situation where we're talking about constrained housing supply because we're just not building enough to keep up with the amount of demand in the market.

Speaker 7 And that means housing costs could start to put more pressure on inflation. I'm Justin Ho for Marketplace.

Speaker 6 Wall Street today, interestingly, not all that upset by that CPI report. We'll have the details when we do the numbers.

Speaker 6 It is one short month from today, March the 12th, that the Trump administration's 25% steel and aluminum tariffs hit. As the president said when he signed the orders on Monday, it's a big deal.

Speaker 6 What's also a big deal are the additional 10% tariffs the Trump administration has imposed on all Chinese imports and the threats of 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico and Colombia and various retaliatory tariffs threatened by our allies in response.

Speaker 6 In short, it has been a month in global trade. Sarita Jackson is the president and CEO of the Global Research Institute of International Trade, that is a trade consultancy.

Speaker 6 Sarita, welcome to the program.

Speaker 12 Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be a part of the program.

Speaker 6 Explain to me, would you, the life of a trade consultant here in February 2025?

Speaker 12 Wow. Well, the best explanation I could say is just kind of being in the middle of a storm, if you will.
Just really staying on top of what those changes are.

Speaker 12 on a regular basis. I would say 24 hours.
Sometimes it's less than 24 hours.

Speaker 6 A woman's got to sleep, right? But look, other than what the heck is going on, what are like the top three things that people are asking you?

Speaker 12 Well, the main thing is what does this mean for my product in a particular market?

Speaker 12 For example, some of my clients are one of the clients, and actually we're scheduled to talk again soon, toward the end of last year, you know, I had worked with her.

Speaker 12 I said, hey, why don't you consider having your product or part of it manufactured in Mexico as opposed to China because we had these tariff already the tariffs going on and then we're hearing about more tariffs so why don't you shift to Mexico because we have the U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement.

Speaker 12 Well then there were the concern about okay what does this mean for me now that I am

Speaker 12 looking at Mexico for my production and there still are going to be these tariffs. Another issue that has really come up is pertaining to funding.

Speaker 12 Some of these clients, and I just had this conversation yesterday actually, is okay, well, if there's cuts to the funding for the U.S.

Speaker 12 Agency for International Development, and that's how I'm able to expand overseas, what does that mean for me to still continue to remain globally integrated in 2025?

Speaker 6 Do you have many or any companies saying that because of the present tariffs and whatever tariffs may come, that they are going to reshore their production and bring it back to the United States.

Speaker 12 You know, that is one of the interesting things that I was waiting to hear. And as of yet, I have not heard that.

Speaker 12 What has impressed me, and these are smaller companies, by the way, what has really been interesting, at least with the companies that I've spoken with, now maybe someone else may have a different story, but they still are going global or remaining globally integrated and just saying, well, we just need to adjust and figure out the best strategy with the resources that are available.

Speaker 6 Right, right. Two more things, and then I'll let you get back to work because I know you have client calls that you have to get on.

Speaker 6 The first one is just very broadly speaking, clearly now the United States,

Speaker 6 as a matter of policy, is going to be trying to go it alone in global trade.

Speaker 6 And I realize that's out to Moronic because you can't go it alone in global trade, but we're certainly going to pull back a good deal. What's that going to mean for the American economy?

Speaker 12 For the American economy, the one thing I can definitely say is prices will go up.

Speaker 12 The business owner will have to carry those costs, and then guess what? Some of those costs will be passed on to the consumer.

Speaker 12 And then, if you are an exporter, if that's what you depend on to grow your business and you're exporting to countries, and then other countries are retaliating, well, that makes it more difficult for you to grow your business and to enter other markets and provide much-needed goods or service in that market, that has an effect both on the businesses and the consumers.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 And then finally,

Speaker 6 acknowledging that it took decades to build a system of international trade that we have had up until recently, and also granted that there were deep flaws with it, and it did some level of damage, but

Speaker 6 rising tide, all boats. How long do you suppose it takes to rebuild some kind of global trade order if we have three and a half more years of American isolationism?

Speaker 12 That is a really good question.

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 12 something I

Speaker 12 think needs to be discussed even more is the role of the international institutions, the World Trade Organization, the WTO.

Speaker 6 Which you haven't heard mention of very much at all lately, anyway, right?

Speaker 12 Exactly, which just I think people miss. Yes, you see sort of this isolationism or protectionism, but there is this whole international institution that sets rules.

Speaker 12 So for me, it's hopefully not that the whole system will crash, but just that we are going through a unique period where we have some of these shifts, but that you have this international body that can continue to govern so that trade can continue and be beneficial in this so-called global economy.

Speaker 6 Dr. Sharita Jackson, President and CEO of the Global Research Institute of International Trade.
Thank you, ma'am, for your time. I appreciate it.

Speaker 12 Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 6 The digital payment network Zell said today it serviced a cool trillion dollars in payments last year, what the company claims is the highest volume for a peer-to-peer payment app ever.

Speaker 6 According to the Atlanta Fed, almost three-quarters of consumers in this economy use mobile payment of one kind or another, Zelle, Venmo, the cash app, and more than 90% of consumers under the age of 25 do.

Speaker 6 As Marketplace's Megan McCarty-Carino reports, what started out as a convenient way to pay your friends back for dinner is becoming an ever bigger part of transactions all across the economy.

Speaker 15 They're called peer-to-peer payment apps, but often these days they're being used peer-to-land.

Speaker 16 This is too convenient. I don't understand why people bother with paper checks anymore.

Speaker 15 Zianna Bunch rents out a couple rooms in her house in Morgan Hill, California.

Speaker 15 Several years ago, at the suggestion of a tenant, she started accepting rent payments through Zell, and she never looked back.

Speaker 16 Even if they're out of town, they just hit the app and send me the rent, and you get a little ka-ching noise on your phone.

Speaker 15 Zell General Manager Manager Denise Leinhard says the network moved almost $2 million a minute last year. That's a lot of ka-chings.

Speaker 9 We are now partnering with over 2,200 banks across the network.

Speaker 9 And this is enabling their customers to come on and be able to basically go through their daily tasks and be able to pay people that they know and trust.

Speaker 15 So landlords and babysitters, farmers, market vendors, hairstylists, music teachers. But as the dollar dollar amounts grow, so do concerns about mistakes and fraud, says Lisa Gill at Consumer Reports.

Speaker 17 There's a lot of onus on the individual to sort out a problem.

Speaker 15 The quick, irreversible nature of these apps make it easier to send money to the wrong person or fall prey to scammers, says Gill. And there's little federal oversight.

Speaker 17 They are not a bank.

Speaker 15 Last year, the Federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau extended the agency's oversight oversight to include payment apps, and it sued several large banks for failing to protect Zell users from fraud.

Speaker 15 Zell called the suit meritless, saying they provide multiple backstops to avoid mistakes and scams. I'm Megan McCarty-Carino for Marketplace.

Speaker 6 Social media is basically everywhere now, and you can get inspiration from it. You can use it to just kill some time, or you can use it to decide what you want to do with your money.

Speaker 6 As Wall Street has become more accessible, there's a growing subset of influencers who offer financial advice to their followers. Isabella Kwai wrote about them for the New York Times the other day.

Speaker 6 Welcome to the program.

Speaker 14 Thanks for having me, Kai.

Speaker 6 Just generally speaking, who are these financial influencers out there?

Speaker 14 So financial influencers can be really anyone who is online and sharing information about investing or personal finance, or it could be something from a celebrity who has a big profile and is partnering or working with, you know, financial services or products.

Speaker 14 And I think that is something that is really interesting about financial influencers or finfluencers as we're

Speaker 6 finfluencers is that what we're calling okay

Speaker 14 it's very sleek

Speaker 14 you know people have really combined these words but financial influences or finfluencers they really can be anybody and I think that is part of the concerns around them well yeah let's talk more about that because we'll get to the possible upsides but it you know on the internet they don't know you're a dog right wasn't that isn't that the famous far side cartoon right so

Speaker 6 it could be anybody is the point.

Speaker 14 Right, right. And

Speaker 14 one of the issues that makes this field quite difficult is it's so vast.

Speaker 14 There are people who are giving you information who may not be qualified certified financial planners, and there is potential there for misinformation to spread.

Speaker 14 In the most serious examples, you have influencers who have been accused of hyping pump-and-dump schemes or promoting high-risk assets.

Speaker 14 And it can be really hard for your everyday person person or your everyday investor to look at all these different influencers online and work out what is going to be handy information for them and what is potentially dangerous information.

Speaker 6 Right. So let's get the caveat in here that if you're going to follow a finfluencer, I can't believe I just said that, you have to do some due diligence and find out who they are.

Speaker 6 But part of the reason they're so popular is because they're accessible, right?

Speaker 6 They probably cater to underserved groups, people who might have been shut out of, you know, this sort of wealth industry, as it were, right? I mean, there's lots of things that are appealing.

Speaker 14 Absolutely. And what some financial influencers are good at is putting it in everyday terms that people can understand.

Speaker 14 And there are influencers out there who I spoke to as part of the story who, you know, are certified financial planners themselves or certified financial advisors. And

Speaker 14 they do share information that helps people become more literate when it comes to their finances.

Speaker 14 But, you know, whether they are qualified to do that, you know, experts have recommended recommended you really should be thinking about this.

Speaker 6 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 6 Given that social media is, generally speaking, a vast unregulated wasteland, I imagine there aren't too many regulations protecting people from acting on this bad advice, right?

Speaker 6 If you act on questionable advice from a FinFluencer, you're kind of on your own.

Speaker 14 Right. Well, not entirely, but one thing,

Speaker 14 well, one thing that

Speaker 14 is interesting to explore is, well, what's the responsibility here?

Speaker 14 And, you know, in the US, the SEC, for example, has pursued some high-profile celebrities for not being honest about whether they were paid to promote an asset or not.

Speaker 14 But ultimately, one big challenge in this is jurisdiction.

Speaker 14 People can be following advice from someone in the US while they're sitting like myself in London.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 the question being, would this fall under UK jurisdiction? And that makes it difficult for regulators to pursue some people who are perhaps spreading misinformation.

Speaker 6 Right, totally. No matter where you are, caveat emptor on your finances, I'm telling you.
Isabella Kwai with the New York Times. Isabella, thanks a lot.
Appreciate your time.

Speaker 14 Thank you so much.

Speaker 6 Coming up.

Speaker 18 We had to cut our evening short as the band was screaming profanities.

Speaker 6 Let's have some control here, people.

Speaker 6 First, though, let's do the numbers.

Speaker 6 Dow Industrial is down 225 points. Today, a half percent, 44,368.
The NASDAQ ticked up six points. That's less than a 10th percentile, 19,649.

Speaker 6 The SP 500 slipped 16 points, about 3 tenths percent, 6,051. DoorDash posted first quarter results and beat expectations.

Speaker 6 Company said it expects demand for food delivery services to increase as it adds more grocery stores to the business. Shares up 4% today.

Speaker 6 Chevron announced it's going to lay off up to 20% of its workforce. It's a cost-cutting measure.
The oil company says it needs to reduce between $2 and $3 billion in costs by the end of 2026.

Speaker 6 Chevron, off one and six-tenths percent. You're listening to Marketplace.

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Speaker 2 Find an agent at CINFIN.com.

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Speaker 6 This is Marketplace. I'm Kai Rizdahl.

Speaker 6 Crude oil drooped today, both benchmarks, Brent, North Sea, and West Texas off about 2.5%, low 70s a barrel for each of them, which I mention because one of the stalwarts of big oil is rethinking things.

Speaker 6 BP, Once Upon a Time, British Petroleum, says it's going to start a, quote, fundamental reset of its business strategy later this month. Profits were off more than a third in 2024.

Speaker 6 And while one might think that that reset would involve renewables, not so. And in point of fact, BP has company.
Shell and the Norwegian producer Equinor are doing pretty much the same thing.

Speaker 6 Marketplaces amid the field has more.

Speaker 21 Just five years ago, oil companies were announcing big investments in renewable energy projects and setting climate goals.

Speaker 22 Oil and gas companies are trying to make money, and they have been following the political wins.

Speaker 22 Severin Borenstein at UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business says a few years ago, those political wins were pretty clearly blowing towards having more emphasis on renewables and potentially restrictions on oil drilling.

Speaker 22 That's changed.

Speaker 21 In Washington, the Trump administration is now encouraging more oil and gas drilling and rolling back clean energy incentives. Christopher Kinitle at MIT says that's changed the calculus.

Speaker 23 These companies are publicly traded companies that have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder wealth and the profitability of oil and natural gas is increasing.

Speaker 21 And not just because of shifting political winds.

Speaker 23 Natural gas prices in Europe are still high since the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Speaker 21 And oil prices have stayed pretty high too, he says. So these companies can make good money doing what they're good at.

Speaker 23 Getting oil and natural gas out of the ground. That's what they've done for the last century.
Whenever you pivot to an alternative product, there's a learning curve.

Speaker 23 You may lose some of your comparative advantage that you enjoy with the old product.

Speaker 21 That's why Hugh Daigle at UT Austin says policy and public investment matter.

Speaker 24 When you look at the history of any kind of emerging technology that has gotten a lot of initial government support early on, it takes a long time for it eventually to become profitable.

Speaker 21 And until it does, for-profit companies don't have much incentive to invest on their own. I'm Samantha Fields for Marketplace.

Speaker 6 2023 was the all-time high for North American concert ticket sales, Beyoncé, Taylor, right? All told, better than $6.5 billion for the top 100 grossing tours, should you be curious.

Speaker 6 2024 was good too, and that's one reason the concert promoters are looking to grow the market, expanding into parts of the country that are typically underserved by the big tours.

Speaker 6 Think mid-size American cities. There's a company in Colorado trying to meet that rising demand, and their product is the venue.
Colorado Public Radio's Dan Boyce has more.

Speaker 13 For a long time in Colorado, to see a big epic concert, you had to go to Denver, maybe to Red Rocks, an an outdoor amphitheater surrounded by sandstone cliffs.

Speaker 13 But last summer, the state's second biggest city, Colorado Springs, got its own venue.

Speaker 13 A homegrown band called One Republic was the first to play at Ford Amphitheater. The outdoor concert space has room for 8,000, and it's kind of a boutique concept.

Speaker 13 People can sit around gas fire pits while big names play the hits as the sun sets behind the Rocky Mountains.

Speaker 13 The Colorado Springs company behind the amphitheater called Venue wants to bring basically this exact high-end event space to dozens of mid-sized cities.

Speaker 25 Since there haven't been new amphitheaters built in quite some time in general, let alone in these areas, the company is being very, very tactical in terms of selecting where to create something new.

Speaker 13 Dean Budnick writes about the live music industry for magazines like Billboard and Variety.

Speaker 13 Venues pitch to cities is that these outdoor amphitheaters can bring millions of dollars in economic activity. The company often gets tax breaks or other incentives.

Speaker 13 And Budnik says it's a smart model.

Speaker 25 Venues are expensive to build?

Speaker 13 Big promoters like Notes Live and AEG Presents are building new concert spaces too, but they can't build everywhere.

Speaker 25 While it might be optimal to own the venue if one had the resources, it's, you know, there's a lot of value in just operating the venues.

Speaker 13 And that's the case here. AEG Presents brings in the bands that play the Ford Amphitheater.

Speaker 13 Colorado Springs was venue's first project, but the company has five more under construction in places like Oklahoma, Texas.

Speaker 13 But plopping a concert venue in a place that's not used to concert sound can cause problems.

Speaker 18 My family and I were enjoying our last night of summer with the kids outside before they started school on Monday.

Speaker 13 This is Resident Cherie Hutchison speaking to the Colorado Springs City Council. She lives close to the new venue.

Speaker 18 We had to cut our evening short as the band was screaming profanities that were blaring at us at over 70 decibels.

Speaker 13 She's one of hundreds of neighbors who have protested venue's amphitheater. Some residents say they can hear song lyrics loud and clear in their living rooms miles away.

Speaker 13 Budnik, the concert industry writer, says this is pretty common with new event spaces, that it can take some time to calibrate the sound levels at an outdoor amphitheater.

Speaker 13 Butnik says the venue's decibel levels might be legal.

Speaker 25 But still could be just absolutely striking to the folks who live around the venue and never anticipated that. And that can become a flashpoint.

Speaker 13 Venue is trying to be a good neighbor. The company plans to spend $3 million on sound mitigation measures like additional walls and speaker system changes.

Speaker 13 The issue makes headlines in Colorado Springs on the regular, but Venue's CEO J.W. Roth says lots of other cities are not so concerned about neighborhood noise.

Speaker 26 They want my business there and they want us there. And so many of them have gone completely out of their way to make it easier for me, not more difficult.

Speaker 13 He points out two new hotels have sprung up next to the Ford Amphitheater and five new restaurants.

Speaker 13 He's hoping residents eventually get used to the sound of the concerts and appreciate the business they bring. In Colorado Springs, I'm Dan Boyce for Marketplace.

Speaker 6 This final note on the way out today, that sound you hear is the Federal Reserve's next interest rate cut leaving the station.

Speaker 6 The central bank was already all but saying it is not looking to cut rates real soon. Today's inflation report pretty much sealed sealed that deal.

Speaker 6 Chair Powell wrapped up his two days on Capitol Hill today. The relevant quote from the morning's hearing goes like this: We want to keep policy restrictive for now, Powell said.

Speaker 6 Our media production team includes Brian Allison, Jake Cherry, Justin Dueller, Drew Jostnet, Gary O'Keefe, Charlton Thorpe, Juan Carlos Torado, and Becca Weinman.

Speaker 6 Jeff Peters is the manager of media production, and I'm Ky Rizdahl. We will see you tomorrow, everybody.

Speaker 6 This is APM.