Matt Ebert: Reveals the Leadership Secret to Scaling an Empire

Don't be afraid to give up the control.

And in

my case,

I wouldn't have been able to grow.

I didn't come from money, so I needed capital to grow.

So the only way to do that is being willing to let investors partner with me.

Welcome to Mick Unplugged, the number one podcast for self-improvement, leadership, and relentless growth.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of McUnplugged.

And today, We've got a billionaire on the call.

From a single shop in 1999 to over 600 locations nationwide, he turned Crash Champions into a $3 billion with a B dollar powerhouse.

And he did it all without a college degree.

But what he realized was that when you put people first and you have a burning desire, great things are going to happen.

Please join me in welcoming the bold, the relentless, the visionary, my guy, Mr.

Matt Ebert.

Matt, how are you doing today, brother?

I'm good, Mick.

Thanks.

That introduction makes me blush a little bit.

So appreciate that.

Don't blush, man.

It is all you.

It is all facts.

I meant to even add in there Chicago's finest.

I was just in Chicago a few weeks ago

and I wanted to hit you up, but you know, someone, I'm not going to mention anyone's name didn't give me your contact number.

So, I couldn't hit you up, man.

But just

too bad, missed opportunity there.

But I'll be back in a few months.

So, we'll make sure that that happens.

But, Matt, man, been a huge fan of you, the work that you do, but more importantly, man, the human being that you are.

You do a lot of good in the world and you lead a dynamic team.

And I tell people all the time: you want to see a great culture, just look at the team, right?

Great culture doesn't have to speak, right?

It's shown in the teams and what you have.

When did you know that people and connection was really like a thing for you?

It evolved, to be honest.

It really became a a necessity just because

what we do as a service, right?

Collision repair.

You can't do service businesses typically without people.

And so just

to have any kind of

leverageability where it's not my own hands doing it, you got to involve others.

And so whether it's a team of two or three or in our case now, almost 11,000,

it definitely requires teamwork.

And so I think like I didn't have a big aha moment where I'm like, oh, teamwork's where it's at.

It really did evolve from, okay, I can't do this on my own anymore.

It needs some help.

And then

the biggest thing is learning as we go as to how to keep that culture going when you get bigger.

It's a lot easier when it's just face-to-face, but when you get more distant from the people as the organization grows those are the challenges that have been

tough to meet some creativity because you're depending on others to take carry that same culture through well you do an amazing job brother like i said over 600 locations you physically can't be everywhere all the time but the culture is the same you walk into one shop and it's like you walk into all of them so That speaks volumes of who you are, man.

So, Matt, you know, on our show, we like to talk about your because, that thing that's deeper than your why, that true passion that fuels what you do.

And a lot of times that can change from time to time.

And sometimes it can be different at home than it is in business.

So if I were to say, Matt, like, what's your because?

Why do you do what you do, bro?

Yeah, it's, it's all about the people.

And,

you know, at...

the company today we say we champion people um and it's because we're helping people in a time of need so we get to take care of people.

We also get to help people change some lives, both through some charity stuff and also through career paths as the company has grown.

But, you know, that too has evolved.

If I go back to when I was, you know, teenage years, when I first

got into the collision space, it was out of necessity.

I had wrecked my car and needed to learn how to fix it.

And

what I would say is it kind of started from a place place of making things better.

So I had a problem.

I wanted to fix it.

Even, you know, jobs I had as a teenager from cutting the grass to painting a house, like getting to see something in the before and after.

And then, you know, that kind of evolved to.

just my attitude toward people both in friendships and personal life and in business.

It would surely be great at the end of this all for people to say that their life was better for having known me.

Now, as through the company, we're able to do that at a grand scale where people are in a time of need and you never want to talk to us at Crash Champions until you have a rent car, but you sure do when you do.

And so we're able then to help people in a time of need

because someday Odds are either you or someone you love is going to end up needing us.

And so appreciate the opportunity to do that.

I love that, brother.

So, Matt, we have something in common, right?

So, you were 16 when you had a crash and you decided to fix your car.

So, I'm going to tell on myself, my sister always tells this story privately.

So, I'm going to tell it publicly for the first time.

So, I was 16.

I didn't have a crash, but I backed into something.

And my mom's car was white.

So, I backed into like an industrial trash can, trash whatever.

And there's this big green mark on the bumper of the car.

So, me at 16, oh, all right, I got to go figure this out.

So I go to the local Lowe's and Rochelle, I know you're laughing, but whatever.

And it was at this point in time, Matt, that I realized all white is not the same.

So I go grab a can of white spray paint thinking I can just go spray over this green mark on the car.

Nah, bro.

It was an off-white that didn't match the car.

So my question for you, Matt, is, did you, were you fixing your car because you didn't want anyone to know or were you just truly intrigued that you wanted to fix the car?

Because me, I didn't want anyone to know.

And I went a good four days before my sister ratted me out.

And so then I got in trouble.

So unfortunately, mine wasn't so minor.

So there was no covering it up and hoping

nobody would know.

It had to be fixed and fixed right.

And I was afraid of making an insurance claim because I was afraid then I couldn't afford the insurance.

And for me, the car was not just cool, but it was also freedom.

So the first chance to ride around without my parents and getting to go wherever I wanted,

so to speak, was something I didn't want to lose.

So I was determined to not

make a claim and have the insurance get canceled to where I would lose that freedom that I had just gotten right away.

So it seemed pretty desperate at the time for me.

Yeah, Yeah.

That's crazy, dude.

That's crazy.

So I love that.

And I want to go to the journey of starting the shop then.

So when did you know that that's what you wanted to do?

And then I'm going to have a few follow-up questions, but I want to start there.

When did you know that, all right, this is what I want to do?

Yeah, I.

I always wanted to own my own business.

Again, even in young years, I mentioned mowing the grass.

I would push my lawnmower lawnmower around town and

mow people's grass for a few dollars.

I grew up in a small town in Illinois and

from that small town, I didn't really know anybody.

So opening my own collision business, I was a little bit afraid of, well, where would I get work?

How would I have any cars to fix?

And so I

opened some subway franchises at first as my first attempt in like an official business.

Didn't do so well there.

Ended up going back to work in the body shop business, managing another person's shop.

And he talked me into partnering up with him on a shop.

So, and this was all in my 20s.

So, basically, went from attempting something else that didn't work, coming right back to the collision business.

And the gentleman whose shop I was running saw an opportunity for us to partner together in one.

So, that's how I ended up owning the first body shop.

I like that, dude.

So, you start the first one

walk us through the first couple of years right because you know if if you're like me and i think we're a lot of like

yeah when i started my first business i wanted to be as big and i'm using air quotes for those listening as big as i could but i don't think i could fathom what that really was right so like for me when i first started big was all right i can go from one customer to like a hundred customers and then a hundred customers to like 500 customers right so when for you when it was like all right i've got one shop what is it like to have two or three shops and and i know that you said you were doing subway so you understood the franchise concept and how to grow but when did you realize

man

this can really blow up

embarrassingly it took a long time mick uh i you know i grew up in a a small blue-collar town.

College wasn't talked about.

It wasn't an opportunity for me.

Thinking big was nothing that was presented to me as a kid.

And so I literally was just trying to survive, trying to pay the bills.

In entering business, you know, the goal was just to

make enough money to live

at first.

And then I started to observe.

things that were happening around me.

So this industry is a very fragmented one

and people began to consolidate it, acquire other businesses,

and grow big.

And so, as I was watching that

years down the road, I felt like

there was a need.

That's where the industry was heading.

And so, to me, it was a little bit of survival instinct of if this is where the industry is heading and I want to be around the long term, I'm going to have to think about doing that.

My partner was 20 years older than me, and he wasn't ready to retire.

So had to kind of wait until 2014.

So you're talking 15 years in the partnership in the one shop before I could grow.

And during that time, I spent a lot of time reading,

studying, expanding what I knew.

So I was a little bit

kind of handcuffed and then set free and ready to go pretty fast by that point in time.

It's funny because I thought I had missed out on a lot of opportunity.

Little did I know there's still a huge amount of opportunity out there.

So it took me a while to think bigger.

And then I used to think, you know, and then it started with, okay, a couple shops and then, okay, let's be a strong regional player.

And then COVID is where the whole national view came in because that's when

relationships like insurance partners that refer a lot of work, they change the game even more from it's much more efficient and easier for them to deal with national partners through direct referrals than it is, say, 30,000 individual shops across the country.

And so seeing that accelerate led to, hey, I think being regional isn't even going to be enough.

We really need to be a national player long term.

And so that pivot came.

in the middle of COVID, just reacting to the marketplace and the world around us.

Yeah, Matt, I love the vulnerability and honesty there.

And I think that's a great lesson for early entrepreneurs.

You know, a lot of times you're going to hear think big, grow big, and all of that is true, but it's got to be stages.

And sometimes those stages are a year.

Sometimes those stages take five to 10 years to get there.

But I think.

The leadership lesson, the entrepreneur lesson, first and foremost is make sure that you and your employees can eat and do enough to make sure that that happens right like when i started my first business at the end of the day matt like this was the truth bro i wanted to be able to get my kids mcdonald's when i could but then take them the apple bees or chilies every once in a while right so literally those were the basic goals and i didn't try to go outside of that until i knew all right i'm comfortable let's get uncomfortable so i can grow more let's get comfortable then let's let's get uncomfortable again so I can grow more.

I'd love for you to expand on that for the, for the viewer or listener that's an early stage entrepreneur, how important it is to make sure that you and your team have food on the table before you really start doing anything else.

Oh, 100%.

The thing is, like you learn pretty quick that cash flow matters.

And so

if

one thing's for sure, I learned this in the subway business.

If you have one that doesn't make money, two, getting two, thinking that that's going to change your world isn't the case.

You need to figure it out with the one first.

But, you know, this goes back to

my childhood, really.

I wasn't naturally gifted at,

I don't think anything other than learning.

So

I didn't have natural athletic ability,

was the last picked in basketball.

They'd picked the girls before me.

They would say, hey, we'll give you Matt.

You know, we'll play one short.

We'll let you take Matt.

But not being naturally gifted at things like that, I think gave me the superpower of determination of figuring it out.

And

so the ability to stick with something and learn,

you learn first how to do it once and then twice and then three times.

But I think that figuring it out.

is super important, especially if you're going to scale it, because

then it has to move on beyond just your intuition, beyond just me being there at the counter, talking to the customer, doing the right thing.

You have to learn how to manage other people into

having them help you do the right thing as well.

And so you need some systems, processes, et cetera, to do that.

Once you figure it out, then you build those and then you can try it a second time, a third, and a fourth.

Yeah.

And the second lesson that you just talked about in there, Matt, is also something that I talk to leaders and entrepreneurs about is you've got to understand your outside influences.

Meaning, hey, COVID's happening.

What's the world doing?

My, my centers of influence, right?

The insurance industry for you, probably some car rental industry has changed as well too, right?

Understanding that what happens today.

isn't necessarily the same thing that's going to happen next week.

And again, I think a lot of times entrepreneurs and leaders get so much tunnel vision that they're they're not paying attention to the market.

They're not paying attention to what influences their business.

Talk a little bit about why that's so important for the entrepreneur leader that's listening.

Yeah, I think it's, you know,

one thing I learned early on is somebody taught me,

and it's probably in many books, but

if you want, the way to get rich is find out what people want and bring it to them.

And so it's simple concept, but really

what is it that people want?

Where is the business need to be tomorrow to meet people's needs?

And if you can do that,

you'll be successful.

So

one kind of blessing and curse for the industry that I'm in is vehicles are changing so rapidly today.

Like it's screamingly obvious.

It's not even gradual.

Like cars five years ago compared to today because of the AIDS systems and the attempt to build them out to be self-driving one day.

All of that is happening so fast.

It's clear to see that there's no way five years from now the business can operate the same as it is today.

Sometimes I think it's more gradual of an evolution than what I'm seeing in this rapid transformation.

Recognizing where things are heading and then what will this business have to be to meet the needs of people five years from now is very much on my mind.

And it seems should be on every business's mind.

I don't want to go the way of the dinosaur.

So

even from what we do as a core, which is fix cars that have been in collisions, they're trying to make cars stop.

having collisions.

Now, there's 280-something million vehicles on the road.

It's going to take a long time before that happens.

But at some point in time, we'll have to to do other services to these vehicles in order to continue.

I happen to be in an industry that's making it pretty obvious at the moment that you need to pivot and grow and change in order to meet the needs of the customer.

But I think every business does.

Sometimes the change isn't so obvious.

Yeah.

You know, Matt, I want to applaud you for something.

that you and your business, your company do amazing.

And I like to say there's probably three or four brands that really do this, but for you, I'm going to say McDonald's, right?

When you walk into

one Crash Champions,

you've walked into all of them.

Meaning, even down to floor mat placement.

I don't even know if you realize that, bro, but like where the floor mats are, what the lobby looks and feels like.

Looking into the shop itself, like seeing the brand, seeing everything that's uniform.

And you can't do that without something you were talking about earlier, right?

Systems and processes.

That makes it easy to replicate who you are and not have to worry about, you know, oh, well, this branch or this store or this region does something this way and this region does it another.

Then there's no continuity.

You can't promote, you can't scale humans when things are different.

So one, I applaud you for that.

Two, let's talk to the viewer and listener about why consistency processes and systems are so important when it is time to scale and to expand.

Yeah, because you because the results matter, because the perception matters, and

appreciate the compliment, Mick, but we're a work in progress too.

Like it's not to the degree that I would love it to be, which is perhaps what it never will, right?

I'll always want things to be better and always want them to get there.

But

you need that consistency.

The McDonald's is the perfect example.

If you couldn't count on the same french fries at every drive-through you pulled in,

you wouldn't treat it the same.

And so I think that's pretty

understandable to everyone that

when you see that name,

you expect it to be the same.

And from our standpoint, our customers are, we're a once-in-a-decade event, probably.

Unless you're in your teenage years, then we happen to be maybe more often.

But

for us, it's more of a how do we get a universal result of a happy customer and a happy insurance partner and a happy employee.

And that's the forever moving target and goal.

Again,

we look at it from a people point of view.

So in championing people, it starts with our own employees.

Can't have a great customer experience

without a great employee experience.

So

how do we make sure that they have the tools that they need?

How do we make sure that they have an environment that they want to work in?

How do we make sure that we treat them well?

You got people in the middle that that varies a little, but as much as you can solve for variances, the more you know that your employees will be happy there, then you know that the customers will get the same experience and they'll be happy.

So it's really looking at it from a customer point of view.

How do you get there?

And consistency is definitely a key part of it.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

another thing that you've mastered really well that i don't think you get enough credit for so i'm going to give it i'm going to give it now because that's what i do is mastering mergers and acquisitions right like i tell people a lot of times you can't you can't scale without some type of acquisition right but but in order to do that you have to know what you're looking for you have to have the ability to not just acquire, but in your instance, fold people into a culture, which is darn near impossible to do a lot of times, right?

Especially with mom and pop acquisitions that sometimes feel like they're going into a corporate.

There's always that little bit of tug, that little bit of friction.

But you've really mastered how to bring people into your culture through acquisition.

So, talk a little bit about that, brother.

Yeah,

again, I would say best thing to do is put yourself in the other person's seat.

And so, I remember early days, for example, the seller would be, nobody can know until the money's in the bank.

And then you're walking in, the deal's closed, the money's in the bank, and you're walking into the employee's surprise.

What a horrible, horrible experience.

And so learn very quickly.

And to this day, hundreds of acquisitions later, we still have to talk the sellers through it.

Like, no,

we want to get the contract firm, get you comfortable, but we have to let the people know early.

Like, they're going to be upset with you, the seller, because they're going to be mad that you didn't trust them.

Adults don't like surprises, kids do.

So

announcing early and having that month to sit down with each employee and talk through what this means for them and what it's going to look like going forward for them is just one avenue of trying to

bridge that culture difference because it is going to be.

it is going to be a bit different.

So the sooner you can talk about it,

the sooner you can start to get their buy-in buy-in and their willingness to give it a try.

And then

you make mistakes and you learn from them.

And that getting in there ahead of time so that their first paycheck goes well and all those things where people get nervous.

You want to make sure to deliver the best experience you can out of the gate.

And then,

you know, the culture, one of the reasons why I'm on your podcast or even started doing any of this is because it's not my comfort zone.

I was a, you know, I'm only a year in, but a year ago, probably a disaster.

And I'm probably still closer to that than a master of doing these interviews and things.

But it started from how do people get, because it's so many people, how do people get to know us or about us?

And so putting.

putting content online that anybody can check out is a great way for people to get to know us.

That's how this all started.

Amen to that, dude.

Amen to that.

You know, earlier you talked about not being a dinosaur, right?

And your industry, just like many, are seeing a ton of innovation, which means, you know, I know you're a great learner, right?

Like, that's your thing is to always learn and to always do some self-knowledge.

How has innovation in the automobile industry impacted what you all have had to do, right?

You've got electric cars that are coming in now, some self-driving cars.

Like, is it becoming more of a challenge to stay up to date with everything?

Oh, very, very much so.

It's both tooling and training.

And then it's a bit of a research paper before you repair a vehicle because there's so many different type of metals and the technology.

You know, I describe it when I started.

You would get in the car, and if you left the keys in it, when you got out, it would ding, ding, ding.

And if you left the lights on and the keys in it, it would ding faster.

Like that was the, that was the technology that in the AM FM, you know, cassette radio.

Nowadays, we know the car helps you park.

You got, it helps you not change lanes.

All this technology is crazy to the point of, look, there's, I think, about 15 million lines of code in a 777 airplane.

And in today's modern vehicles, there's 150 million lines of code.

So if that gives gives you an idea of the complexity of today's cars, it really is a chase to keep up

with where they are.

It's a challenge for the industry, especially when it's shorthanded anyway, which is why we do so much talking about what a great opportunity there is in blue-collar work, not just ours, but other trades as well.

But there's abundance of opportunity for people because there's so much new to learn and so much new to do on these cars.

It's not what you imagined it to be 20 years ago.

So, you know, that's a great point because there are a lot of industries that are struggling to get new talent, right?

But you're saying that you have a ton, not just you specifically, but your industry has a ton of opportunity for people coming in.

What is unique about

the collision business, the automotive side that should be attractive to people?

And I'm not just talking young people.

I'm just talking people in general.

Well, I think the technicians get paid better

than people think.

And that I don't think was always the case, but it finally has gotten to a respectable wage.

You know, our average technicians make six figures now.

And it's just something that I think young people should know as an opportunity because there's stereotypes and stuff that have come with our industry for so long.

And I'm sometimes might sound anti-college, which I'm not at all, but it's not for everybody.

And so

if that's not a path that you can take and working with your hands is something you love to do, there's nothing greater than watching a car transform from wreck to

back to new, you know, after

just a couple days, you get to see a big transformation.

So I just view it as it is a great opportunity that people should be aware of.

There's many other opportunities in the world for sure.

I just think this one has been stereotyped in a wrong way in decades past.

I get it, man.

I get it.

So you talked a little bit ago about, you know, always wanting to improve.

For the listeners and viewers, how does a $3 billion company improve?

What are you looking to improve on?

Yeah,

all those systems and processes are always a work in progress.

The culture, it's always a work in progress.

You know,

we

first, first I think you want to be the best and then you continue to grow and being the biggest is a cool thing to shoot for one day.

But that work to continue to work at being the best is what I think consumes the day-to-day and then the growth comes naturally as part of the as part of the business plan, even though you do it intentionally.

You know, it's concentrating on making sure you're the best that you can be makes the growth possible.

That's how I view it.

You know, an industry under consolidation,

from what I've read and observed and studied, you know, will continue to consolidate till it's 65, 70% consolidated.

And our industry is, say, 30% consolidated today.

So it's, you know, not quite halfway there.

So I see,

you know, once that happens, then there ends up being maybe one, two, or three, three national players, probably.

And so, you know, I want to make sure that Crash Champions is one of those two or three left standing.

So

that's kind of what I see as kind of the next phases of continuing to improve.

And you never know,

there's other services we can perform.

There's other geographies we could look at.

There's all kinds of opportunity out there as long as we continue to do things well.

I love that, dude.

I want to get your advice.

I want you to give advice to the listeners and viewers, especially those

founder-led business owners that are trying to balance control and growth.

What's a piece of advice you have for that?

Because again, you've mastered that as well, too.

Don't be afraid to give up the control.

And

in my case,

I wouldn't have been able to grow.

I didn't come from money.

So

I needed capital to grow.

So the only way to do that is being willing to let investors partner with me.

It's really about what each individual is trying to accomplish.

I started to think pretty big at the time that I brought in private equity investment.

And so for me, a smaller percentage of something much bigger

was the path I wanted to go.

I probably could have had a much easier life if I just stayed in a regional,

you know, a regional kind of play and did it through debt and let the business kind of finance its way to maybe say 20 shops or so over the next so many years.

But I also looked at it as like, okay, then what?

Because I was always putting all the money back in the business, still am.

And so if all the money keeps going back in the business, what would be the plan to maybe get paid one day?

And I viewed that as a risk for me because

it's a consolidating industry.

By the time I was ready to sell, would they already be done?

And would they want to buy and pay a good price for it?

So it was just looking at

maybe working backwards from the end game of, yeah, if I want to just do this.

And I'm not worried about an exit and I'll run it forever,

then

great.

Or if I want to do this and this is my exit point, just knowing that, I think you just need to know where you want to end up.

For me, it was looking at meeting the needs of the industry, not being able to do it on my own.

Letting a partner in has been a great thing.

And, you know, transparency, I'm very much a cards on the table kind of guy.

So

being very transparent with the partners as to what I was wanting to accomplish, keeping the relationship in perspective has been great.

I view view it as the investment is a tool for them to grow their money and our business, and they're a tool for us to grow our business.

And keeping it in perspective has been great because then I don't get any delusions about what the relationship is about.

If the business quits making them money on their investment one day, then the money is probably going to go away.

And I think,

again, the transparency builds trust between you and the partners.

And it's been a great relationship for me.

Not everybody has had that experience, but I think the best way to set yourself up for it is to be honest and open about your goals and theirs at the outset and work toward them together.

Love that, dude.

Love that.

Matt, you've been so gracious with your time, man.

I know how busy you are.

So I appreciate you doing this.

I want to end this with our quick five.

So I ask you five rapid-fire questions.

You ready?

Yeah, sure.

All right, let's go.

So you're a Chicago area guy.

What's your favorite Chicago food?

Oh, food.

Man, we got great food here, period.

But pizza, I guess, comes to mind right away.

All right, deep dish, thin.

Thin.

See, I tell people all the time, Chicago pizza is actually thin.

Like, it's not the deep dish that everybody promotes.

Yep.

Yeah, that's more like a casserole.

You'll have that one every once in a while, but thin all day.

Yep.

There you go.

There you go.

What was the biggest lesson you learned uh leaving subway

um

i didn't like the business for one so don't do something you don't like but also again cash flow matters

love it i love it what is

a car in the shop that you love just seeing come in

oh

anything high-end is cool to look at and see.

So we've got some luck shops now where you see some pretty pretty unique vehicles from Lamborghinis to

Rolls-Royce's to McLaren's to any of those are pretty pretty impressive cars.

Okay.

All right.

Now, the flip side of that: what's the car that comes in, and everybody in the shop is like, oh man, here we go.

Oh, I don't want to say that.

We'll prejudice people against it.

You know, I would say anything older because older gets rusty or gets,

you know, more.

So, anything older is less appealing than newer okay i dig it i dig it three words that define matt eber

uh

transparent

uh trustworthy

and um ambitious confident you asked for three i gave you four but see there you go four words that describe matt ever

I love it, dude.

I love it.

Matt, man, where can people follow and find you?

And I'm going to make sure that we have links to the main site so people can see the crash champions near them too.

So for me, Matt Ebert CC is all the social media, any of them.

Matt Ebert CC.

CrashChampions.com is the company website.

And then there's also MattEbert.com.

So any of those avenues, reach out.

I got it.

Matt, I'll make sure we have it there.

Brother, it was an honor to spend time with you.

Thank you for letting me pick your brain personally because I asked you questions honestly that I wanted to know.

So, thank you for being authentically you.

Thank you for being transparent.

And just thank you for the soul that you are, Matt.

I appreciate you, brother.

Hope it was helpful to the listeners.

It was fun, Mick.

Thank you.

It totally was.

And to all the viewers and listeners, remember, you're because is your superpower.

Go unleash it.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mick Unplugged.

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And most of all, make a plan and take action because the next level is already waiting for you.

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Until next time, ask yourself how you can step up.