Episode 615: Vampire Talk with Doug Jones

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Elena.

And I'm Doug Jones.

And we have a very special episode of Morbid today. Woo! Doug Jones is here, guys.
Whoa. Weirdos.
We, I mean, Doug Jones is an absolute icon, to be perfectly be perfectly honest and also we can we can also say that he is the nicest monster in hollywood but a hundred percent we have had to reschedule this pod twice because of just various shenanigans that occur nicest man ever like truly if it was going to happen with everyone anyone i'm glad it happened with Doug. So thank you for being so patient with us.
Oh, and you me. I love you guys.
No, we love you. So Doug has breathed life into roles like the fawn and the pale man in Pan's Labyrinth.
Those are two of my favorites, like all-time favorites. So good.
The amphibian man in the Academy Award-winning film The Shape of Water. His resume includes the roles of Billy Butcherson, iconic from Hocus Pocus, Baron Alphanos on What We Do in the Shadows, as well as the titular role in David Lee Fisher's upcoming film Nosferatu, A Symphony of Horror.
And we are just so excited to have him on the pod today. So again, thank you so much for joining us.
Oh, thank you. And I can't live up to that introduction.
I think we're done here. You already have.
You do every day. Thank you.
So like we just said, your resume is mighty, like one of the mightiest. We have to ask, how are you able to do all that,

to be all that, to personify all that and still keep your feet on the ground and truly be the

nicest monster in Hollywood? Oh, well, thank you for thinking of me in that manner. I don't deserve

it. I love you for that.
You do. I, you know, it's funny.
My resume is long, not because I'm

really that good. It's just because I'm that old.
I've been around a while, you know? Um, so, uh, I, I've been, I, my career has happened because of the graciousness and kindness of the Creature Effects makeup people, honestly. Uh, if it wasn't for their referrals early on, uh, that propelled me to the next project and the next one and the next one, I never would have met the, you know, the wonderful Rolodex of directors I have now worked with, including the ever great Guillermo del Toro.
It's because of those early days being, you know, when you come to Hollywoodland and you're a tall, skinny, goofy actor boy, 6'3", 135 pounds, and you have a background as a mime. And you can also put your legs behind your head.
So your resume says contortionist on it. So that was like my first commercial agent's dream.
It's like, okay, we can do so much with this. So yeah, so they submitted me for all kinds of things that were physical tomfoolery and clowning and miming, of course.
and a lot of those roles that came with that kind of breakdown also came with a look that needed to be glued on to me. So those early commercials that I did, the very first commercial I ever did was for Southwest Airlines as a dancing mummy.
I love it. Right.
How that worked into an airline, I'll never remember. But I think the fares had dropped low enough that i could finally come out of my sarcophagus and go on vacation i think that's how it worked um and then shortly after that i booked a commercial for a world's wonder toys for a doll commercial and i was an alien landing in a kid's backyard and i thought i was making first contact because the doll was left out and it was a talking doll but you know you push it on the belly it's like that tickles whatever so so it was like a funny little oh we're first contact but it was with yeah uh that creature effects makeup designer that made those alien outfits for that commercial then also was doing the the moon head for the mac tonight campaign for mcdonald's i remember those so vividly right well it's set to the the theme song taken from Mac the Knife, but rebranded for McDonald's as Mac Tonight.
I love it. It's Mac Tonight.
Hey. Yeah.
So I ended up booking that job as the Crescent Moonhead guy under this huge, heavy mask, also created by Steve Neal. So I was already getting a taste of, ah, the creature effects world is tight and almost incestuous.
And, you know, and they like, they're very loyal. So if they like working with you.
So the reputation got around town that I'm tall, skinny, move well, and don't complain when there's a lot of stuff on me. You're lovely to work with.
So I guess that's the reputation that got around the creature effects. So, so the referrals happened and snowballed from there.
And here we are 38 years later. Uh, and, um, and it's with a resume that I never foresaw.
I never, I never sought like, I want to be monsters. I really wanted to be a sitcom star when I started.
I wanted to be like a goofy next door neighbor that comes, you know, like on the Dick Van Dyke show. Oh, I love that.
Or being Kramer on the Seinfeld, you know, the guy who comes in and does something funny and leaves, you know, I had very low aspirations for myself. You surpassed all of them very much.
Oh, thank you. So getting swept up by the creature effects world was a surprise to me, but a happy one that turned turned into a career that has been very, very good to me.
And, you know, when you mentioned the likes of Guillermo del Toro, when you are standing on the stage at the Academy Awards, because a movie you were in called The Shape of Water just won Best Picture. And you're there with the entire team accepting the award for Best Picture.
And it's an Academy Best Picture with a monster on the cover. This doesn't happen.
Yeah, it really doesn't. And you happen to be the guy who played that monster.
It's a surreal moment. You can imagine.
I was going to say, how does your brain wrap around that? Like, just being on the Academy Awards stage must be like, what? You're looking out a sea of the most famous faces you've ever seen in your life. And they're all looking back at you with adoration in their eyes.
It's like, this moment doesn't happen to just anybody. No.
It doesn't. That's a pinch me moment for sure.
Totally. Totally.
I believe the alien should abduct me now. This is insane.
That's a good time to die. Happy.
Right. Truly.
You're like, I'm good. It's funny that you brought up the Mac tonight character.
Oh yeah. One.
I vividly remember those, those commercials. So that's so funny, but also our researcher for Morbid, our friend Dave, his father, Jim White, actually directed a lot of those commercials.
So we had like this weird one degree of separation. Isn't that nuts? What are the chances? Isn't that weird? Yeah, it's awesome.
Yes. And I remember us talking about this like a long time ago when he brought up like, oh, my dad directed those things.
We're like, oh, my God, I used to love those commercials. And then we found out you were Mac tonight.
We were like, what? If you didn't get a message back to him that I love him dearly to this day. Oh, we definitely will.
I love that. Thank you.
And we spoke about Guillermo del Toro. And I have to ask because I'm a huge Guillermo del Toro fan I think he's so

brilliant and he seems like just one of he's one of those people that he seems like one of the sweetest kindest just like genuine person what is it is he that person what is it like to work with him he will they say don't meet your heroes but he is one you would absolutely love to meet because he will live up to all of your dreams

and expectations of who he is.

I'd love that.

Can you- They say don't meet your heroes, but he is one you would absolutely love to meet because he will live up to all of your dreams and expectations of who he is.

I'd love that.

You can imagine how often I get asked, what's it like to work with Cameron Soltori?

You've got to tell me that.

Because you're not alone in that love for him.

I hear such love for him everywhere I go.

And when you work with him, you're doing two things.

You are under the tutelage of one of the most visionary, brilliant artists in the world ever. You're also hanging out with like a funny friend who is the self-effacing, hilarious and sassy as can be.
So he's right. I love that he's sassy.
Oh, no, he's got the best sense of humor. And in fact, he's a director that understands his actors better than any director normally does.
He directs all of us on the same project in different ways, depending on our personality and what we'll respond to, because he's already sussed all that out. Wow.
He's brilliant with the human spirit and psychology and all of it. so with with the set of buttons on us that he now knows what to push to get what reaction out of us

on the day, he'll direct like, so from the Hellboy movies, Ron Perlman, Selma Blair, and Doug Jones, very different personalities. So we all got different types of direction from him.
Oh, that's like brilliant. Now with me, it's very simple.
He knows if he can make me laugh, I'll do whatever he says. So one of my favorite examples was from Hellboy 2, The Golden Army.
There was one long tracking shot that he wasn't going to cut away to anything. He had no coverage to cut away to.
So I had to do a lot of physical business while this one camera circled me. And I had to be done with the business by the time the camera stopped.
Well, I wasn't. The first take of this, it's like I was going slow and methodical and like milking these moments visually.
And by the time the camera stopped and just stayed there for a while and I wasn't done yet, finally, Guillermo del Toro, finally he yells, cut! Doggy, you're boring me to tears.

And that's all

he had to say. I was like, got it, got it.

I'll go in a different direction.

So take two works.

Yeah, yeah.

I love him dearly. We do have a shorthand

like that.

I love that. That makes me so happy because it truly is

one of those things that you hear that all the

time, don't beat your arrows. And I'm like,ro you can meet giro there you go i love it but so one of the big things that's happening right now is that we are in the final season of what we do in the shadows yeah which yeah it starts on 21st.
And you obviously play Baron Alphanas. Amazing character.
So good. You are like chef's kiss.
What is it? Has it been emotional to say goodbye to that character in the show? Yes. By the way, the Baron loves you very much too, my darling.
Don't worry about it. Amazing.
Playing Baron FNS has been the joy of my life.

You know, after this 38-year career of mine, you know, that I have behind me with more coming ahead, of course.

But looking back, it's like I've looked forward to going to work a very handful of times over all of the jobs that I've done.

Because I know that a lot of them are very physically taxing.

And I know it's ahead of me. And I'm going to have to go through the process and the thing and the thing, right? Or I have a ton of like science fiction dialogue that I have to blurt out in a monologue with technically talking it.
And I love them, but dread them at the same time, if that makes any sense. Yeah, definitely.
What we do in the shadows. Oh my gosh.
I look forward to it with like, I can't wait to get there.

I love that.

Because when you're doing something that's all for the funny and you are taking vampire tropes and sending them up and like, you know, just like mocking all of it.

The best.

You know, in this age of comedy that we're in now, everyone's being so careful to not offend.

Well, our show does nothing but offend everybody.

And that's what makes it great.

And it's got an old school vibe to it because of that.

We love an equal opportunity to offend her.

Absolutely.

Let's just make fun of everybody and we're all taking care of them. Across the board.

So then nobody's left out and everybody can be offended together.

Exactly.

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They've always intrigued me. And I've wanted to play, you know, a classic vampire.
So years ago, if you had asked

me what's my dream role, it would have been what we're going to talk about next would be Nosferatu,

right? Of course. You know, the dark mystery of him and the horrific look of him.
Yes. Well,

when I was offered the role as Baron Afanas and what we do in the shadows, he kind of was

a parody of Nosferatu in a way. He's the vampire that comes from the old world.
And he sent all of his minions out to North America to conquer the new world, and they never made it out of Stanton Island. So he kind of stays there with them now.
Like, whatever, right? No, we'll just do that. No, I just, I love the, now that I've done the Nosferatu, a symphony of horror movie, and what we do in the shadows, I've had both the light and the dark of this type of vampire character.
That's my favorite part, is that you've touched both sides of the spectrum on the vampire scale. It's so perfectly.
It's so good. Oh, thank you.
And speaking of like just I was just thinking about like how you were saying like some days you would be like, oh, God, I have to go in and like, you know, I'd have to like spew out all this dialogue.

That's crazy. And speaking of like just I was just thinking about like how you were saying like some days you would be like, oh, God, I have to go in and like, you know, I'd have to like spew out all this dialogue.

That's crazy.

Or I have to go in the makeup chair.

Do you do anything specific?

Because I know you probably had to sit in that makeup chair for a lot of these roles for a long time.

Do you have to do anything specific to like get yourself in a vibe to be able to do that?

Well, here's the weird thing about me is that I don't need to do anything specific. Unlike most people, I don't get antsy.
I don't get stir crazy. I can sit still and stare at a wall for hours and be completely entertained.
Wow. What is that like? I know.
That's amazing. Because that's the number one question I get from people is like, I would go crazy if I just sit still for that long.
And it's like, nope, that's the easy part of my day. The makeup artists are doing all the work during that time.
And I get to just kind of sit there and go over my dialogue if I need to. Or we listen to music or we tell jokes or whatever, right? It's a great time of day.
But now that it's on and you have extra heat, weight, stickiness to your person and you have to perform in it all day and keep your energy up while wearing extra layers of stuff and trying to not stick to your chair when you're taking a break or whatever it is, right? That's the long part of the day for me, honestly. I can imagine.
Yeah, yeah. Because that would destroy me.
I'm so heat sensitive that I feel like as soon as I started sweating, I'd be like, get it off. I know.
I delineate between suits and makeups. A monster suit would be something that you slip in to zip up the back, right? And it might involve a head that slips over your head, snaps down to the neck.
And then there's mechanics that are puppeteered in the face, right's a suit makeup would be either glued or painted onto my real person so when you're in a suit there's nothing quite like that feeling of now it goes on much faster you're maybe 30 minutes into the whole thing and you're and you're ready to perform but once it's on it is they're usually very heavy and very hot and you feel that trickle of sweat going down the back of your neck and you can't get to it. Or you feel that trickle of sweat coming down the side of your face.
Is it going to hit my eye? I don't know. Is it going to go, ah, it's on the cheekbone now.
I guess you know, whatever. It's in my mouth now.
Yeah, because salty sweat in the eye, you don't want to do that while you're on camera. Not great.

Not ideal.

I give you credit.

Truly.

I think the heaviest thing I've ever worn is my wedding dress.

And even that at the end of the night, I was like, get this off of me.

I was like, seriously.

Well, you know, people who just wear wigs on camera, it's an itchy mess and they want them off.

I totally get it.

Oh, yeah.

Wearing a wig for Halloween, I'm like, why did I choose to do this? Like, it. You end up ripping it off at the end of the night like, ah.
Right, right, right. Well, going back to our love of vampires, your love and our love, we are so excited, like completely stoked for the premiere of David Lee Fisher's Nosferatu, A Symphony of Horror that is premiering on October 18th on Apple TV+.
So everybody go check it out. But this is a very different approach to remaking a classic film.
It's shot in black and white. It's so hauntingly beautiful.
We got gorgeous. We got to get a little sneak peek.
Thank you for the screener. It is delicious looking.
It's beautiful. So can you tell us a little bit? Do you know anything about like how they really created the film yeah yeah um thank you for setting that up so beautifully by the way uh because uh it's a very confusing time for the title nosferatu because there is another one right on our tail coming out christmas directed by the the wonderful robert eggers and starring the brilliant bill skarsgård in the same role i'm playing now he might be younger hotter and more famous than me more famous than me, but I think we can have both, can't we? Absolutely.
We all want both. Okay, good.
We do. And I'm going to watch theirs with every bit of glee as I'm watching on my own.
Ours, though, what makes ours a little bit different is it seemed foreseen the same movie as the silent film that made it a classic in the first place. So I got to get into not only Max Shrek's role, but I also was in his environment, digitally reproduced from the original film.
David Lee Fisher, our director, is a technical wizard who made this all magic happen. So it might be something as much as when I was out, let's say, when Nosferatu was outside walking around with his coffin under one arm, that would be a complete 100% green screen set with marks on the floor to match exactly where I needed to turn, stop, walk up steps, whatever, right? That we would match then with the laid-in frame from the old movie.
Then the least amount of green screen used might be Ellen's bedroom when I finally get into her. And I'm finally reaching the pinnacle, the object of my desire.

She's the dessert of all the meals I've had over my vampire years.

Her bedroom scene was walls built, furniture in the room.

And the window, though, was green behind it so that they could put in the original movie window behind that.

That's amazing.

There was a green screen element to every scene of the movie.

Yeah. And so that does bring old and new together green screen element to every scene of the movie.
Yeah.

And so that does bring old and new together with a very ethereal kind of dreamlike feel

to it.

Right.

But also ours, that's why we filmed ours in black and white so that we could match the

old movie more seamlessly.

And also with dialogue and sound that fleshes out that silent film story.

It is scene for scene the same story, but now with dialogue, you get to hear more of it. Right, right.
Yeah. And it really does have that ethereal quality to it.
It does. It's almost like, I don't even know if this is the right word.
It feels like gauzy. Yeah.
When you watch it, it's this pretty veil. That's a great word.
That is. You know, I don't know why.
It just feels gauzy. I love it.
She's a novelist. It makes sense.
Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Yeah.
Well, you mentioned before that this is a role you hoped you would play someday. So how was it playing this role? Was it completely surreal? Yes, yes, yes.
He had been my bucket list character for many years. And I think I always had a love and fascination with vampires anyway.
And of course i loved billa lugosi as dracula and of course uh all the other draculas over the years that have been played by various wonderful actors but there there there's a certain sexiness about dracula that i thought i don't know that doug jones can pull that off i think you totally bless you bless you for but then there's also the the teenager sparkly ones from that other franchise that I'm like, I'm never going to fit that demographic. That's okay.
That's totally fine. Right.
But the buck-toothed, pointy-eared, scraggly one, yes. Him, I get.
Ding, ding, ding. Yeah, yeah.
So that's why no sparkly. But what I also love about his hideous look is that he's probably not aware that he looks that bad now.
He's a count, right? So he's of nobility. In his younger day when he was a human, he probably was quite fetching, you know? Absolutely.
Right? And he probably was respected by the community. And who knows what story got him, what decisions he made, what position he put himself in to become

a vampire. And now, decades, centuries later, who knows how old he is, he's living with his choice, right? And is he ever satisfied? Is this a satisfying lifestyle for him? So that's why what i loved about him was his yearning for Ellen, the character that I'm after in the movie.
By the way, Ellen was played by Sarah Carter. Sarah Carter and I starred together as series regulars on Falling Skies about 10 years ago.
Oh, my God. Oh, wow.
And it's because of that relationship that I said, hey, Sarah, would you be a dear? Oh, I love that. And she's like, oh, my gosh, I love this.
So that's how we got her into the movie she's like oh play ellen okay is she not a movie star oh my god ridiculous yeah ridiculous from every angle i know i know i know i know i tell you and so her husband in the movie young thomas was played by emery cooper yeah he's a series regular on coronation street now that it's a very british he's from great britain his accent was legit. Oh, I love that.
So he's sent on this journey by his real estate boss who goes crazy. By the way, his real estate boss was the character Knock, played by an actor named Edgar Allan Poe.
Do you believe that? Stop it. I know.
Destined for this role. Should I know that name? I don't know what from.
So, Nock sends young Thomas on this journey to fetch me in Transylvania because I'm interested in buying a piece of property in their hometown right across the street from them. Because something about me, you know, Ellen has been calling to me from afar and I haven't really, you know, known who she is yet or what she is, but I know that I need her.
He comes to me to sign paperwork for this real estate deal. And while he's with me, he's getting creeped out by all that I am.
And I love those scenes when we're at the dinner table and he's eating food and I'm not. And I'm just kind of staring at him or, you know.
I love that so much. So fun.
Right. There was so much dialogue happening in those quiet, silent moments where he's very uncomfortable and I'm very comfortable.
Too comfortable. Exactly.
And one of my favorite moments, too, was I'm about to sign the paperwork and I pause for a minute and say, do you have the time? And he hands me his pocket watch in which was a photograph of Ellen, his wife. And that was like, that was the moment that Count Orlok realizes that's the object of my desire.
That's who I've been dreaming of. That's who I've been wanting all this time.
So he rushes and signs the paperwork and now it's a done deal. So what I love too about this, this story is that once he gets to the town and takes residency across the street from Ellen and Thomas, he doesn't go right for her right away.
He peers at her through the window like a creep. And, uh, and he, other people in town are dying all around them.
They think there's an epidemic that's, you know, wiping, there's some kind of a virus wiping out the city. So he saves her for dessert, right? And by the time he gets to her, this is the ultimate.
This is what, right, the moment, his whole life as a vampire has been leading to this moment. It's his magnum opus.
Right, and I love that David Lee Fisher left the camera on me for a long time while I am on her neck. Yes.
And it's very sensual and very disgusting all at the same time. It's beautifully horrific.
Beautifully horrific. Great way to say it.
So then when he comes to and realizes that the sun is up and it's coming through the window, he's like he kind of overdid it. He overindulged in his addiction.
I think that's when he had his come to light moment. I wanted to add some humanity into him because watching the silent film, of course, it's very dramatic.
And Max Schreck struck that pose when he got in front of the window with a hand on the heart and a hand toward the window, like, no, right so i wanted to strike that that iconic pose as i tried to strike a lot of his iconic poses

throughout the film but give some some backstory meaning and some heart and soul of why he got into that pose oh i love that Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.

For Patty, that friend was Desiree.

Until one day...

I texted her and she was not getting the text.

So I went to Instagram.

She has no Instagram anymore.

And Facebook, no Facebook anymore.

Desiree was gone.

And there was one person who knew the answer. I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch.
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You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps?

The ones that make you really question

and we'll see you next time. Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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You can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. So this moment in the bedroom i'm thinking wow i had my dessert i've reached the pinnacle of my desires where do i go from here is there anything left and did it really truly satisfy me or am i just a pathetic being and do i have any reason to live beyond this so when the sun is coming in the window he knows he's going to burn.
Do I take my chances and try to get out of the room and pass the window? Sure. And if I die, you know what? Maybe I deserve it by now.
I think that's kind of what the backstory I gave him that maybe Max Schreck, I'm not sure did or not. It translates definitely.
It really does. No, thank you.
Thank you so much. That's very, very sweet.
Beautiful and wonderful and intimidating to play this role, too. Oh, sure.
Because there's no way to not compare me to Max Schreck and also to all the other Nosferatus, including Willem Dafoe's brilliant Shadow of the Vampire version. Mm-hmm.
And, of course, Bill Skarsgård coming. I'm sure he's going to be delicious in whatever he does with it, too.
Definitely. Yeah.
Yeah, I could see why that would be an intimidating role to take on, for sure. I love that you put, like, your own, like, spin on it, though, and that you put your own, like, feelings into those poses and everything, because it really does translate.
Yeah, you left your mark on Nosferral, too. Oh, thank you so, so much.
Yeah, I was so happy that our director, too, was on board with making sure we hit all those iconic notes.

Like when he's in the bowels of the ship in transit and the captain comes down and sees him standing up from his coffin, stiff as a board, right?

So good.

That took some engineering, by the way. I bet.

And then also that famous shadow going up the stairs on his way to Ellen's bedroom. So spooky.
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, of course, like I said, the grabbing of the heart and the hand out to the sun when it's time.
Classic. I love it.
Classic. Classic moment.
Yeah. It's awesome.
Going back to the look, you mentioned, like, does he even know that he looks like this? Yeah. What was the costuming like? Like, was it very heavy on prosthetics? How was that for you? Yeah, good question.
This was, as far as prosthetics go, again, I've played creatures that are rubberized from head to toe. This was not that.
This was head and hands. Thank heaven.
Nice. With a very specific wardrobe to match the original wardrobe.
And there was a bit of a hump built into the back because he was hunched over in the original film. I think I probably stand a little straighter than Max Schreck did, but they still did have some extra built into that hump area of the back.
Oh, okay. With this long double-breasted coat.
And that was gorgeous. And the prosthetics, though, were...
I wore more prosthetics than the other Nosratus have. Really? Including Max Schreck was very smooth.
It was basically his face with a bald cap and, you know, some ears and some funny swaths of hair placed just so. I was more wrinkled and elderly looking.
Yeah. Which was a design choice.
And here's the fun backstory of that look. Michael Izzaldi, a very talented artist who owns the Creature Shop Spectral Motion that did the Hellboy movies with me and the Silver Surfer movie with me.
And he, as a garage project at home, started sculpting a Nosferatu decades ago on a life cast of me, my bust. Oh, wow.
He added clay to me and started sculpting what he thought Nosferatu might look like in his dreams. And he came up with that.
That's amazing. Once it was done, they had prosthetic pieces made of it.
And just as a test, fun makeup test one day, he called up and said, would you ever want to put this on just for a Saturday afternoon fun photo shoot shoot i said yes it's like manifesting yeah right so we went and did that and this is again a good 10 years before this movie came up oh this is my movie yeah so when david lee fisher uh who i'd worked with before on a movie much like this we did uh we did a reimagining a re a remix of the cabinet. Caligari, that 1919 silent film that we made into

the same thing, old movie, new movie put together with dialogue, sound, musical score. So David Lee

Fisher calls me up one day and says, hey, if you don't want to do this, I won't do it. But I have

this idea. Would you want to ever do Nosferatu like we did Caligari? And I was like, you have

been reading my dreams. Yes.
Right. So and I, and I said in that same phone call, oh my gosh, I know exactly what makeup I want to wear doing this too.
So we went back to Michael Izzaldi and his design is what Moe Meinhardt and Ben Plowman then put on me on the day. It took about four hours a day.
And those four hours also included appliances on the back of my hands to make them more bony and veiny. Right.
And also to add those long, delicious talons to my fingernails. The acrylics.
Right. Talk about Lee Presson nails.
That was a, yeah. That is so cool.
It was like you were manifesting this 10 years in advance. That's amazing.
Yeah, for real. Isn't that whack-a-doodle? I know, I love it.
Just love it. See, it was meant to be.
Yeah, that's crazy. It really was.
So speaking of all these vampire things, because vampires are so much fun and it's spooky season and Nosferatu, a symphony of horror is coming. Like, why not talk about a funny, stinky vampire legend really quick? We thought.
Oh, okay. I want to hear this.
Yes.

All right. I've got a stinky vampire for you.

Okay.

This case of vampirism brings us all the way back to Pench Silesa, a section of Poland.

It was the ye old days of 1582.

Oh.

And Johannes-

That is ye old.

It's ye old.

Johannes Cunchess was out with one of his horses.

They were all trying to repair the horse's shoe.

It was him and a couple assistants.

Now, something went wrong where the horse got upset and actually ended up kicking Cunches, knocking him unconscious.

Also, I swear that's his name and I'm not swearing right now.

Yeah, Cunches went unconscious.

Yes, exactly.

So luckily, like I said, he wasn't working out there alone. So they picked him up, they brought him inside, laid him down in bed.
Now he slipped in and out of consciousness in the following days. But in the moments where he was with it awake, some dark, dark secrets started to come out.
Uh-oh. Cunshus was very, very worried about dying because the life he led wasn't really the purest.
He was a well-respected alderman in his small community, but he admitted while laying on his deathbed that his life had been full of various sins. Some even claimed that he admitted to making a deal with the devil.
That's a big one. That's a huge one.
That'll send you straight to Yeah. That'll send you straight to the east.
Life-altering. So the story goes that the deal was made around the same time that Cunchess's young son disappeared.
And many believe that he actually sold his son to the devil for money, which right after his son disappeared, he fell into a great sum of. That's the biggest sin you could do, I feel, selling your son to the devil.
That's damning evidence, too, isn't it? Yeah, that's very damning evidence. The timing is suspect.
The literal receipts are there. And that's the sin of all sins.
Money has exchanged hands. Exactly.
Hands, claws, whatever have you. Whatever happens.
So while he lay dying in his bed He would call out, woe is me How do I burn and I'm all on fire And he would repeat Over and over again that his sins Were quote, bigger than all of the world Besides And we all agree, yeah, and everyone said They said You sold your son Cunjus. What did you expect? Yeah, that tracks, yeah.
It did. So the night that Cunjus actually did die, he did eventually come to his death.
The great unconscious is what he became. The great unconscious.
That was great. Yeah, thank you for that.
No problem. So the night that he did die, his son, his oldest son that didn't get sold to the devil, was sitting in the room with him and later said that a black cat slinked into the room, jumped upon Cunchess's chest and started scratching at his face feverishly, almost like the cat was trying to erase him from this world, the son said.
And this was right before he died.

That's poetic.

He wasn't completely dead yet.

It is poetic.

He's not dead yet.

His son said that as the cat suddenly disappeared from the room,

Cunshus breathed out his last breath.

Ooh.

So he did erase him from the world.

He did.

The cat said, my job here is done.

You're okay.

He licked his paws and left the room, right?

Yeah, he said, you're welcome.

He said, peace out, you guys.

So the moment that Cunchess did die, a great storm was said to have started, and it raged on all throughout his funeral.

Henry Moore wrote,

No sooner Cunchess was dead, but a great tempest arose, which raged most at his very funeral, there beingshus's burial. his friends and family all felt you know they had heard of his sins but they said maybe he was just you know unconscious

and talking crazy a lot of moving pieces surrounding Cunshus' burial. His friends and family all felt, you know,

they had heard of his sins, but they said maybe he was just

you know, unconscious and talking crazy.

They said, I really think he's a

great man and he deserves to be laid

to rest in a hallowed place.

So they all got together and pooled their money

to make sure that he was buried to the

right of the church's altar, which I guess

in ye olde days was the

best place to be. Primo spot.

Primo spot.

Like rock star parking.

Now, apparently, very shortly after he was put to rest there,

little splats of blood started showing up on the church's cloth,

which was right above where his grave was.

That's so metal.

And listen to this.

People around town started claiming that they were seeing Cunchess roam the streets. Uh-oh.
That would be, you know, well and fine. Like, cool, be a ghost, be a specter.
But Cunchess wasn't just a specter. He was a menace to the town and a straight-up criminal.
According to OccultWorld.com, when Cunchess started roaming the streets again, he was going wild. His specter, quote, strangled old men, galloped around the house like a horse, wrestled with people.
This is my personal favorite. Vomited fire.
Like we said. That is menacing.
That's menacing. There's more, though.
Like we said. Oh, Cunshus.
Spotted the church's altar cloth with blood. This is horrible.
Bashed the heads of dogs against the ground. Oh, straight to jail.
Straight to jail. Turned milk into blood.
Ew. Drank up supplies of milk.
Sucked cows dry. Threw goats about.
Devoured chickens. And pulled up fence posts.
Oh.

Just a few of the activities that he was up to.

Right.

Threw goats about.

Threw goats about.

And also pulled up fence posts.

Like he was like, bah, your fence.

Whilst vomiting fire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Right.

That was his own personal workout.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Calisthenics, right?

Right.

So he was getting all of that. You know, some of that was like not so great.
Most of it, you were just like, okay, conscious, you're getting crazy. This is where it gets dark.
He was also getting very frisky and inappropriate with the women in town. That's so like conscious.
It's so conscious-y. Shortly after his death, he was said to have returned to his own home, which neighbors had seen physically shaking in the days leading up to this incident.

And he supposedly just walked right into his wife's bedroom and demanded that she move over so he could get into bed with her.

Whoa.

Now, obviously that would be horrifying enough, but to add insult to injury, this specter conscious had the most foul breath that this woman had ever smelled in her life. Oh, this poor woman.
Poor dear. Poor dear.
Loses her husband and he comes back all stanky wanting to get into bed. Right.
With halitosis. Exactly.
The worst. Horrible.
Lost her husband who sold their son to the devil. To the devil.
Yeah. And now has come back.
She had some issues to work out in therapy, didn't she?

And then he's like, move over.

I'd be like, no.

She rode a horse to her therapist first thing in the morning and said, honey, sit down.

So, now she wasn't the only woman whose bed that Cunshus was trying to get into.

Oh.

Cunshus.

Yeah.

Many women in town were reporting seeing his specter appearing to them, touching them

without permission, and stanking up the surrounding areas.

Thank you. Many women in town were reporting seeing his specter appearing to them, touching them without permission, and stinking up the surrounding areas.

He would stink.

He was very smelly. Hey, weirdos.
I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers. And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster, and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck.
My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe. From the company's negligence to the victim's harrowing stories, we explore how this strange event reshaped industrial safety laws and left an indelible mark on Boston's history.
And the Boston molasses disaster is just one of many fascinating stories waiting for you on American History Tellers. We take you to the events, the times, and the people that shaped our nation and show you how our history affected them, their families, and affects you today.
Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to both American History Tellers and Morbid early and ad-free.
Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. Now this went on for months and months.
People were seeing and unfortunately smelling conscious everywhere. He appeared to old friends, old enemies.
His specter was returning to his house and scaring the shit out of the servants. People were also seeing flashes of lights at all hours of the night coming from the house.
And people saw him on horseback a few times. You know, he goes for a ride every now and then.
An evening stroll. So obviously something had to be done about this, am I right? Yeah.
You're so right. Get him out of here.
But what were the townspeople to do? How do you stop a dead man? Eh, no. Well, they started by going to his grave.
And when they got there, they saw all these little holes in the ground. So they said, oh, that must be it.
You know, he's like oozing out of the earth. So they said, well, fill these up and maybe that will put an end to things.
It did not. And the little holes just kept reappearing.
So after going back to the drawing board, they decided something more had to be done here. They had to exhume his body and check it out.
So, they set out to do just that, and when his coffin was opened up, somehow, after six months of being dead as a doornail, Conscious's body was perfectly preserved. Uh-oh.
But I bet it stunk. It did stink, definitely.
But it had to stink, though, yeah. Can't confirm.
Had to stink, definitely. Yeah.
It's even said that they handed him a staff, and he was able to reach out and grab it. So they were like, this rocked their worlds even more.
They said, what are we to do here? So they actually went to a judge and had asked him what they should do. And he said the best thing that they could possibly do was burn conscious his body so they said okay all right let's do it he's a vampire he's a vampire they said you're working with a vampire here you gotta break yeah so right they tried to they tried to light him ablaze but his body wouldn't stay lit oh conscious said no it's like awful birthday candles.
Yes, it's like trick candles. They got the idea from Cunchess.
You didn't know? You know, yeah. If you look on the back, it actually has this legend on the little package.
It does. It's just more condensed.
That's all. So they said, well, we got to do something about this.
So they ended up cutting him into smaller pieces. And when they made the first cut, they said blood spilled from him like it was still flowing freely throughout his body.
My goodness. After six months of death.
After six months of death. But luckily, they ended up being able to fully burn the body once it was cut into smaller pieces, and nobody ever saw or smelled conscious again.
Damn. Well.
What a crazy tale, right? That was quite a tale. And so I have to ask, so are these true accounts? Is this fictitious? Where does this story come from? Polish folklore, at least, right polish folklore and it's based off of henry moore's uh version of events of this tale that he wrote and it was basically uh something he was writing against atheism whoa oh okay okay yeah oh interesting man he was like conscious it happened he said let me there's actually you can read and'll link it in the show notes.
You can read this tale in much greater detail because Henry Moore told us a lot about conscious. Oh, really? Okay.
So you gave us the abridged version? This is the abridged version. I didn't want to keep you here.
I know you have other roles to get to, Ducky. I want to play conscious now.
I was going to say, your next role is right here. I'll send you the link to the detailed version and you find somebody to make that movie.
Okay, it's a deal. I'm surprised it hasn't been made yet.
I know. This comes from 1500 something.
Yeah. Just start practicing throwing goats about and vomiting fire.
And taking fences up by the pegs. Yes, just throwing fences up.
Just skip the other crappy stuff, like, you know, the dog beating and the woman. No, I don't want to toss.
I don't want to toss. Great.
You know. Milking cows and turning them to blood or whatever.
Yeah, maybe skip that part. But, you know, throwing goats about is fine as long as you're not hurting them.
Yeah. If they can land on their hooves.
Yeah, just holding their hooves and running around with them. Yeah, there you go.
But, yeah, that's the tale of conscious. Man, I like that.
Wow, thank you for that. That was a story I'd never heard before.
I'm so glad. To tell Doug Jones a story he's never heard.
Yeah. About a vampire.
About a vampire. About a vampire.
Well, we would end on conscious, which would seem appropriate, but we do have one little thing that we would love to end on. We love to do a little short game with guests a lot because these tend to be fun to hear answers.
So we would like to know who out of these three characters that I'm going to list would be most likely to do these certain things I'm going to ask. So who out of Billy Butcherson, Baron Alphanas, and Nosferatu would have compete? Which one would have won the Hunger Games? Okay.
Okay. Oh, not Billy.
I don't think he has any powers to last very long. No.
And the mouth so shut would be not great. Between Baron Alphanas and Nosferatu, I'm going to say it's probably going to be the Baron.
The Baron will have lasted longer for The Hunger Games because he tends to show like supernatural powers more often, right? Where he flies, he zaps things with his hands. He could take them.
He could take them all. I think so.
I so, too. And he's charming.
Yes. He could do the alliance thing really well.

Yeah, he's good at gaslighting.

Yeah.

I agree.

That's the perfect answer.

Yeah.

So the next one is out of those three characters, who would take over the world successfully if given the chance?

Oh, poor Billy.

I'm going to have to leave him out of this one again.

Poor Billy. Bless his heart.
He might win the next one. Yeah.
Yeah, he probably will win the next one. Okay.
Okay. So why don't we, I'm going to say probably, let's go with Nosferatu on this one, because I think that Count Orlok, his subtleties and his sneaking around the back door kind of personality might be what gets him to take over things with no one knowing about it.
Whereas the Baron is very out there and very presentational. And yeah, right.
Yeah. He does it with a flourish.
And so you see it coming and he would be stopped before, but the count would be more shifty about it. Yeah.
Good point. Good point.
I agree with that. I love the thought put into this.
That was a good a good one. And the last one, I'm thinking about it, and it might not be Billy, but possibly.
Okay. Who would have the biggest TikTok following of the three? Well, no, honestly, it is indeed Billy.
I was going to say, I felt like he was going to win, but I didn't know if the Baron could edge him out. Well, the Baron would love to be the most famous of all of them because he's very such a narcissist.
But I think Billy would win because a scene that you did not that you never saw or a moment you never saw from Hocus Pocus 1 that we did film but was cut from the film was. Do you remember the the costume dance party? Yeah.
Where Bitt Miller gets the witches get up on stage and say, I put spell on you iconic yes iconic moment right well bill my character billy butcherson was in that scene and i i broke into the and i fit into the costume party nobody really noticed me because everybody was done up as something and so oh look the fun zombie right right so i'm i'm uh i'm roaming about the crowd looking for the kids and trying to, you know, do my deed. And once Bette Miller sings, you know, I put a spell on you and then the whole crowd gets in a trance and starts dance, dance, dancing until the spell is broken.
I'm not under the spell, but I thought it was kind of fun for me. So there was a scene where you come, the action continues outside the dance party, but they come back to the dance party to show everybody still dancing a couple of times.
Oh, I love that. One of those coming back to the parties was going to be Billy hopping up onto stage and dancing once he had an audience.
And I tell you something, I threw my legs about in such tomfoolery. I bounced up and down on the floor.
I'm so sad we didn't get to see this. Oh, my God.
So it was it was I that was a raging TikTok video before TikTok existed. OK.
You are correct. I think Billy would have the dance videos that could end all all dance videos if he had a TikTok.
Wow. I think that footage needs to be released and somebody needs to make Billy Butcherson a TikTok.
Yes. Yeah.
Come on. Oh, I love knowing that.
Thank you for that. That was such a good one.
Don't talk about that very often. So you might have gotten exclusive there.
I love that. Doug Jones forever.
We always have so much fun with you. We do.
Me too. You.
So thank you so much for coming on today. We love sitting with you.
You are always welcome. You are one of our most favorite, most treasured guests.
And plug, plug, plug, whatever you have now, upcoming, feel free to shout it from the rooftops here. Well, let's go down the list we talked about, of course.
We have Nosferatu, A Symphony of Horror, coming to Apple TV Friday the 18th of October and on Amazon Prime as well. I'm also told it's on Fandango and Roku.
And so look for it on whatever your device is. Also, October 21st starts the new season, the final season of what we do in the shadows.
Baron Afanas does return for a few episodes. You'll see me on the first night i think that they think they told me they're going to show three episodes on the first night so you're going to have a lot of shadows to start the season up nice um also uh billy butcherson as we've talked about is in hocus pocus one and two all month long on the freeform channel playing as a double feature on various nights and days and uh other than that uh i have i have more movies coming i've been doing a lot of indies and shorts over the last year and a half playing a lot of humans exciting yeah i'm loving this phase uh and one of them is a funny movie called operation taco gary's it's a zany comedy right uh two brothers are on a road trip across the country and when they get to their destination uh this can they find themselves in the middle of a conspiracy with an earth takeover by aliens and i might happen to be the alien trying to pass as a human who's the leader of all this yes i'm amazing i'm in that yeah so operation taco gary's is going to be playing at the austin film festival octth.
Awesome. You have an exciting October, Doug.
I know. It's quite a month.
It is. Yeah.
And then next week, I'm actually going to North Carolina to film an episode of Blue Ridge, which is a – this is a turning of the page for me. I'm going to play a guy who lives in the mountains.
And what happens with me is yet to be discovered. But that's a show that's led by Jonathan Sheck, if you remember him.
He was the lead singer of The Wonders in That Thing You Do. And he was also the young hottie in a movie with Winona Ryder called American Quilt.
That was kind of his breakout back in the day. I remember that movie.
He also played Houdini in a tv movie of houdini which and he was brilliant as as that character uh and he also played jonah hex in um in dc's uh oh gosh which which dc show was that oh god i'm so i'm so bad at these yeah i know i know right so anyway so i all my scenes are with him and i can't wait to to play that out. That's this coming week.
I'm going to be filming that.

So that will come out on the Inspiration Channel and the Cowboy Way, I think, when their season two finally airs.

Oh, that sounds awesome.

Man, you are busy.

Yes.

We're doing it.

We're doing it this month.

All good stuff.

Getting after it.

I love it.

Yeah, seriously.

Well, Doug.

Thank you again.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

And again, you are welcome anytime.

Oh, bless you all. Thank you so much for having me.
I adore you, too. Don't ever change, okay? We adore you..
Yeah. Thank you so much.
And again, you are welcome anytime. Oh, bless you all.
Thank you so much for having me. I adore you too.
Don't ever change, okay? We adore you. You either.
Okay. Okay.
Loving you so much. Oh, we love you so much.
Thank you so much. Bye, Doug.
Well, guys, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. Unfortunately, you'll never be able to keep it as cool as Doug Jones, but never.

I meant to say keep it as weird.

You'll never be as cool as and you'll never keep it as weird as Doug Jones.

Love you. So please tell the children that Billy Bennett loves them very much.
Would you do that for me? Amazing. I was just going to ask you to do that.
All right. Thank you so much.
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