Chiefs Matt Nagy on his Mahomes 'Cheating', Rookie Kelces, Andy Reid Lessons & "Swingin' D" | Ep 147

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I'm on Kylie's setup and I thought that Kylie was just gorgeous, which is why she looks so good on her podcast.

You're glowing, dude.

You look great.

The setup she's got, she's got a great setup.

Really highlights her features.

Kylie's going to look good regardless, but I think, I'm not going to lie, I think I'm...

I think I look pretty good in this light.

Get over yourself.

What do you get a tan?

And a wax are you kidding me

and a wax tan and a wax and all of a sudden jason's tan wax and a new studio set up and that's all we need to make me full of myself all right let's go

Welcome to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, a wonder show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Audible.

Why read when you can listen?

We're your hosts.

I'm Travis Kelsey.

This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey, out of Cleveland, Heights, Ohio.

Look at this old school 1980s Heights hat, dude.

This thing's fucking sweet.

That's the Tiger, I remember.

Shout out to Dave, Dominio Day, for getting me a subscribe on YouTube, Wondery Plus, wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on all social media at New Heights Show with 1S.

Jason, tell the people what we got coming up today.

We got another incredible episode for you 92%ers.

We'll pick a film for the final installment of the New Heights Film Club.

We're going to answer some not-so-dumb questions, as we always do.

And we've got an incredible conversation with Chiefs, offensive coordinator, my former quarterbacks coach with the Philadelphia Eagles, Matt Nagy.

That's right.

Let's go, Nags.

It's my guy right there.

We finally get to hear his side of the story on giving Pat Mahomes the answers to the test.

Did he slide him to the test?

Listen, if it's Pat Mahomes and you're that confident, give him the answers.

All righty.

He already has the answers.

We're also going to get his opinions and thoughts on the Chiefs' offense heading into the 2025 season.

But before that, it's time for a little bit of that.

New news.

New news is brought to you by American Express.

And the new news is we are watching Pretty Woman.

Oh,

let's do it.

Latalia's in.

Latalia's in.

Pretty woman

walking down the street.

Pretty woman.

The one I'd like to meet.

Pretty

Woman.

We'll watch the movie circle back.

But that song isn't in that movie, though, is it?

Yeah, guarantee it is.

Guarantee it.

I wonder why.

Okay.

So, who is what's Pretty Woman?

Is that Patrick Swayze?

Who's in Pretty Woman?

I don't know.

I know nothing about this film.

Not Swayze.

It is

Julia Roberts and,

dude, another like 80s

Suave dude.

Kurt Russell, John Travolta.

More stoic.

Steven Seagal.

Oh, it's Richard Gere.

Richard Gere.

I should have seen that one coming.

Old Richard.

I'm a big fan.

All right, here we go.

Pretty woman.

Let's do it.

I'm about to be a pretty big fan.

Dude, I'm just fucking around.

All right, Pretty Woman received over 45% of the votes.

The next closest, Princess Bride.

I almost want to watch two.

Can we do two?

Should we do two movies?

No.

All right.

Pretty woman it is.

I'm just going to watch Jaws just because it's a fucking banger.

They give you more nightmares.

You're fucking sick.

This guy wants to keep informing, like, getting himself right.

I heard a funny ass fucking tweet that said if you watch Jaws Backwards, it's just a really, really heartfelt story of a shark giving people their limbs back.

Oh, nice.

Nice.

There are people giving people limbs.

Well, he fucked that joke up, but yeah, it's funny as hell.

It starts with the shark being reanimated from an explosion, and then he is then whole again, And then it's him just regurgitating

limbs onto

amputees.

Yeah.

All right.

Anyways.

It's a magical shark.

Yeah.

There it is.

Here it is.

Oh, there we go.

Agreeable Greg.

There we go.

Shout out to Agreeable Greg.

Yeah, that's a good tweet.

That's a good tweet.

What does that look?

It reminds me of the joke.

What do you get if you play a country song backwards?

You get your wife back.

That's another good joke.

Those are both good jokes.

Pretty woman, it is.

I'm going to watch Austin Powers then.

If you're going to watch Giles, I'm watching Austin Powers.

Dude, I'm telling you, will you please, if we're not going to do Princess Bride this time, let's negate the whole vote and do Princess Bride for the next film club movie.

It's a fucking incredible movie, and I'm upset that you haven't seen it, Travis.

You'll love it.

I'll watch Pretty Woman first.

All right, fair enough, fair enough, fair enough, fair enough.

All right.

Yeah, we wasted a lot of time getting here, but the 92%ers eventually selected Pretty Woman, which we will watch and review at one of the up-and-coming New Heights Film Club episodes.

But thank you so much to helping us find these videos.

Yeah, thank you guys.

Yeah, we're looking forward to this.

I really am.

I never know what to expect.

I like watching movies.

I love judging things.

So prepare to be judged, Julia Roberts, by somebody who knows nothing about the film industry.

Yeah, I can't wait to judge you, Richard.

Gear.

Some more new news.

Travis attended the Patrick Bacon Charity Golf Tournament.

Nice, yeah.

Shout out to Patty Bakes.

Shout out to Patty Bakes.

Look at that forehead, man.

You can put a fucking satellite dish on that thing.

What does the funds of the Patty Bake

golf tournament go towards?

Yeah, so it's not the Patrick Bacon golf tournament.

It's the Alex's Way Foundation golf tournament that my guy Patrick Bacon runs.

Proud sponsor.

for City Insurance, which is the insurance company Patrick Bacon is in charge of.

Well, that's awesome.

Congrats out to Patty Bakes and everybody involved with that charity.

That sounds tremendous.

Happy for all those guys.

Honestly, man, it's just cool to see

everybody in our in my childhood and Bacon's life come together for a good cause.

He had a family member pass away a few years ago, and they try and raise funds to help the awareness around it.

And it's just, it's an awesome, awesome event knowing

how much of a slappy Bacon can be, but

how much of a good guy he can be.

And the beautiful family that is up there in Cleveland, Ohio that it supports.

And it was just dope.

It was a fun outing up there at Sand Ridge, which I never gave enough credit for how beautiful it is up there on the east side of Cleveland.

But it was a fun deal, man.

And it was cool to see all the family and friends that we grew up around that I hadn't seen in such a long time.

Posted a solid score.

Shout out to Chuck, Charlie Grace, for keeping our score low.

But that was a good deal, man.

Had a lot of fun up there raising some funds for a great cause.

And sure enough,

yeah,

going up there to to support old Patty Bakes, my caddy out in Tahoe.

He's a fan favorite in the celebs and familiar faces that you see out there.

Patty Bakes has been doing this thing for quite a while now.

So it was cool to get up there and support him for his foundation.

And shout out to Forest City Insurance, baby.

Why has he got the calves covered up?

Everybody knows Patty Bakes has the best calf game in the industry.

Those calves, those calves are what get him up and down that course out there in the altitude of Tahoe, baby.

I cannot wait to see him out in Tahoe.

Isn't he just the best, man?

He's everyone's favorite human being, man.

Did he text you?

Patrick texted me in the middle of the week and goes, hey, bro, what are we doing?

He goes, This is why I'm not texting him.

He goes, we're doing a Tahoe episode, right?

I was like, I don't think so.

And he goes, bro, we got to.

I've got so many ideas.

I'll hit you back.

And I never heard from him again.

Yeah, because I told him we're not doing it.

Do you know about this fucking bet that we're doing?

What do you, what's what bet?

What's the bet?

He had been trying to lose weight, so I told him, all right, I'll make you a bet for Tahoe.

If you get down 25 pounds by Tahoe,

I'll give you 10 bands.

Oh my gosh.

And he said, all right, deal.

And I said, all right, but I don't want money.

I want, if you lose the bet,

you have to do a rounded Tahoe dressed as the Blue Man crew.

Wow.

Wow.

Has the official Has the official weigh-in happened yet?

No, no, no.

The official weigh-in is the 10th.

We're doing it the 10th.

Is he just going to sweat it out?

And he says he's bringing his scale.

And I'm just like, this motherfucker is going to have that thing.

No, no, no.

He's cheating.

We'll bring our own scale, but he's just going to sweat it out.

He's just going to wrestler style it.

Come on, Pat.

We know you're not working.

He just texts me.

It's your chance, Patrick.

This is it.

We're not calling back.

Nothing.

Wow.

He's saying I'm naked.

Give me a minute.

That's

sounds about right.

Yeah, I would have guessed.

Sure.

So he's, he's, you don't know where he's currently at?

No idea where he's currently at.

He looks pretty thin.

He looks a little lean in that photo.

I'm not going to lie.

I don't know if it's the pants or the jacket.

No, listen, Jason, we're all,

we're on Patrick's side.

I'm just trying to give him some motivation.

I'm definitely on your side.

I want to see him.

Yeah, I'm rooting again.

I'm a hater.

I'm sorry.

I'm not a bet.

I'm definitely on your...

I'm Team Travis.

I want him to do Blue Man Group.

I know.

That's why I made the bet.

I want the Blue Man Group.

That's why I made the bet.

The weigh-in is Wednesday.

Is it in front of you?

No, it's Thursday.

It's the Thursday.

Thursday?

The Thursday before the round?

He keeps trying to push it to Friday morning.

I'm just like, dude, stop.

No.

No.

As soon as we get the Tahoe, you're on the scale and either you're there or you're not.

We're not doing this whole like, you go to the sauna and don't eat anything for a day and just sweat it out.

Like, no, we're not doing this.

Do that shit on your own time.

I'm not fine.

Do you have blue paint for him?

Come on, now I did it the right way.

I went to a clown shop, got the blue paint, got the got the bald scully that you got to put on, and then there's like an accr, like the certain like over-the-top layer that you put on so that it doesn't like sweat and get in the eyes and mouth and shit.

Nice, nice.

He's gonna look like shit,

dude.

There's no way.

He said, At this point,

at this point, I pay you $100,000 to not wear the blue man suit.

Are you kidding me?

This is the most unfair bet ever.

He's a fucking ridiculous person.

Isn't he fucking hilarious?

I love him.

The guy's a spectacle.

In other new news, the new heights reddit page, 92%, want to know if we're serious about the Jets Jake tattoo.

I believe, I mean, we're dead serious.

Why would we not be serious?

All right.

Do you guys think that they'll actually bring someone on the pod if they get the tattoo?

If so, are there any rules on where it has to be?

That's a good question.

I would definitely

go out.

How much do you guys love this show?

What are the parameters of the Jets Jake pin-up tattoo?

Your third leg has to be shown in the tattoo.

It's got to be very

it's

what else?

What else could be Jets Jake?

I mean, it's Jets Jake, so you got to have, you got to have the Jets in there.

Jets have to be incorporated.

Yeah, Jets.

He's also Nick's guy.

Does there have to be like a size parameter?

I don't think so.

I think it just has to be, yeah,

it has to be respectable.

Well, no, it has to be disrespectful.

A respectable size of the man.

I don't think that there's a space that is off limits.

I think wherever you're willing to show the said tattoo.

I'm trying to think, like,

what would a space that somebody would do that I would not want, like, would not qualify?

And I can't think of one.

Can you?

No.

Yeah.

No, yeah.

So anywhere.

I think anywhere works.

What did it say?

I'm not sure they thought that one through because there are plenty of people who would practically get any tattoo to be on the pod.

The tattoo would be a talking point for the rest of their life.

I mean, listen, if people want to do it, I think you deserve to come on the pod.

I respect it.

The problem is, what happens if more than one person does it?

Like, we can only have one person on the pod.

Well, then we just, we put it to a fan vote on the, on the, on the best one.

I think that's fair.

All right.

There we go.

Exactly, dude.

Like, I'm on the way to the parlor parlor as soon as I get confirmation that they really will do this.

Listen, do it.

We'll get you on the pod.

We'd love to have you on the pod.

I can't wait to see what this bit of artwork looks like.

Forewarning, though, if multiple people do it, I can't guarantee you a spot on the pod.

Forewarning.

We will at least show the artwork if more than one person does it.

But to be on the pod, I think you got to, if you're the only person, then you're on.

If there's multiple people, then we're going to have to some divvy up some type of voting system.

All right.

And the last bit of new news, 92%ers, have come to the end of the road.

New Heights is wrapping up for the season.

We will air the last episode of season three, Wednesday, July 23rd.

Yes, we will.

Crazy.

Travis is going to training camp, as you all know.

Yay!

Same joke, same joke, same joke.

Whenever training camp starts, we take a hiatus from the pod because it's nearly impossible to do a podcast while somebody's in training camp.

We're going to have a bunch of good, great pre-taped episodes for you guys.

We have two great guests coming up, as well as Matt Nagy right now.

So we still have some great episodes lined up, but we will be taking a hiatus July 23rd through Training Camp.

That does it for new news.

Brought to you by American Express.

Yeah, buddy.

All right, now let's get to some no-dumb questions.

No dumb questions is brought to you by Perplexity AI.

Discover fast and reliable search with Perplexity AI today.

I like team group chats.

Let's do team group chats.

Team group chats.

Let's go.

Hey, Travis and Jason.

This is Riley.

Love the show.

I wanted to ask if there is a big group chat with the entire team for either the Chiefs and the Eagles, or if there's just a bunch of individual group chats.

And if there are, how active are you both in them?

I missed the question.

What was it?

Are there group chats and are we in them?

There's usually at least a group chat for the position group.

At least for the offensive line, there was.

100%.

We got got a tight end group chat, yeah, for sure.

And usually, uh, there are more people that are active on those group chats, they're usually the more rambunctious or the people that just want to fuck around in them.

But there's also like coaches in there, so I wouldn't say that those ones are the most rambunctious.

I think the most rambunctious are usually the ones that are just like group chats on the side with like a select amount of the team or certain personalities that you just vibe with.

Oh, yeah.

Is that similar for you?

100%.

Yeah.

Coach Tommy Melvin, Coach Melvin, he's the one that kind of makes sure the group chat has the right guys in there.

You know what I mean?

Because sometimes, you know,

you got a bubble guy, and he's kind of off the practice squad, on the practice squad.

You want to make sure that that guy's in the loop and informed with everything that we got coming up, and the group chat is up to date with who's actually in the room.

Coach Melvin does it for the tight end group, but like you said, man, I have so many different football group chats from my team now, from my team

back in 2016.

Like the group chats just keep going up.

And it's the same with college.

I still have group chats with guys from college.

Me and Jason are in a few.

And it's just fun, man.

It's always a blast catching up and just throwing the most absurd shit in the group chat.

Yes, of course.

You have to name the group chats.

Yes.

There you go.

It's the best part of having a group chat.

Oh, what's our

college?

Our college chat.

We can't do that.

We can't, Jason.

No, we can't do that one.

I'm going to say it.

Trailer Light Boys.

All right.

Well, I'm going to politely ask that you don't put this on there, Brandon.

I didn't see nothing.

I didn't see nothing, Travis.

That's a good one.

All righty.

That does it for no dumb questions brought to you by Perplexity AI.

Let's get to this Matt Naggy convo.

My guy, I love this dude.

Can't wait for this.

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All right, Nags, let's have some fun, big guy.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Jason, would you do the honors, my brother?

Absolutely.

All righty.

Our guest today is a six-foot-two quarterback out of the University of Delaware, the 2018 AP Coach of the Year, two-time Super Bowl champion, and the current offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs.

92% is please welcome Matt Nagy.

What's up, fellas?

How are we doing, coach?

Love it.

We love that you joined us, man.

There's a lot of ties in here between the Upper East Coast, the Philly connection, the Kansas City connection.

So it's awesome.

And we'll get into all of that.

You already know, man.

No, no doubt.

Appreciate you jumping on with us, dude.

East Coast, guys, right?

East Coast.

Come on, now.

Come on, now.

Ain't nothing wrong with it.

I'm getting accustomed to it.

I'm a Midwesterner myself.

Been stuck here forever, but I'm getting accustomed to it.

Good.

Coach,

how the OTA has been, man?

It's been great.

You've been excited seeing these young pieces come in and

see their talent and everything?

It happens quick.

The guys get in.

You know it.

Travis, you've been in here and you got kind of you get those juices back on again and the guys are rolling.

Coach Reed, man, he doesn't stop.

He's non-stop.

He can't get enough of it.

We love it.

And I think the guys are in a good mindset right now.

Everything that happened in that Super Bowl, we put that aside.

We use it.

And guys are in a good framework, coaches and players.

I know Trav's excited for that long drive, Drew.

No doubt about it.

Come on now.

Oh, no, man.

Who kills it?

He'll bring the best out of you, baby.

It'll bring the best out of you, man.

He kills it.

You know.

Test you mentally.

No doubt.

I would tell everybody this all the time: man, you can train your ass off doing

everything possible.

You could go flipping tires,

running cross country, you know what I mean, running hills,

you can do all of the, all of the training, the perfect like off-season training possible.

There is nothing that will get you ready for an Andy Reid long drive drill.

No, you are going to start that drill and just know mentally that after about 15 to 18 plays, you are going to be fucking miserable.

Yes.

Yes.

There's nothing you can do about it other than just take that misery on with a good attitude.

Yeah.

No doubt.

And I think like, you know what?

It's a funny story.

So last year, two years ago, I was at the airport and I forget what city I was in, whether it was Nashville or where it was, but I ran into Mitch Morse of all people.

And he was in Mitch Morse, baby.

Just retired, man.

I love that guy, man.

Hell of a career, man.

And he was leaving.

Doug was down.

Peterson was down in Jacksonville and mitch was was leaving to go down to jacksonville and it was the offseason he had just got traded there or just signed there and he said you know nags he goes man i'm i'm i'm excited for my my opportunity here and to get going here for maybe one last year in jacksonville but man negs he's like damn it man he's like i do not look forward to these long drive drills i i almost didn't sign here at these long drive drills and i just started dying laughing just thinking of all you guys Dude, it's the best, baby.

I still remember, and I don't know, you probably don't remember this coach, but when Andy, it was, I think, my second year, it might have been my first year, long drive drill.

And we run a screen in the red zone.

This had to be like play 14 or 15.

And Coach had to call a timeout because I just was lying on the field.

I'll never forget it.

Never will I forget that.

He's like, You all right, big fellow?

I'm like,

Yeah, I'll be all right.

He's like, Oh, get back in there.

Let's go.

We got to get

this so good.

Trev, did you know Coach almost played my rookie year?

Did you know this?

Dude, I did not know.

I was just going to say, you said you didn't have any experience at the Andy Drief long drive drill.

I thought you were out there slinging it with him.

Mike Vick got hurt, and we like, I think Vince was having some issues too, or something like that.

And

there's rumblings.

They gave you a workout, didn't they?

They put you out in the field.

Yeah, I actually practiced, man.

It was crazy.

You guys get all these years of touchdowns and Super Bowls.

And, man, I got one day

in the sun.

And yeah, they called me up and they were, I was an intern at the time.

And now I think they have a rule for it.

Like, you know, you see the interns that come to practices in training camp and they sit in the meetings and they follow you.

And that was me in 2008 and 2009.

And my second year, you know, I was there just helping out coaching.

And yeah, Coach Veach Veech was in Philly then.

He calls me up.

He goes, Naz, what are you doing?

Come over here, man.

You got to go talk to coach.

And then coach goes, do you have an agent?

Coach is like, do you have an agent?

Are you in shape?

And do you know the playbook?

And I i was like yes yes and yes and i really didn't know the playbook i wasn't in shape but uh i ended up getting to have one day in practice and then they said you know what no dude you're out you can't do it they nixed it they nixed it they put a rule in

they called it intern stashing oh because there's like a way to add other player like increase your roster size by having like players on like internet

that ain't right man and that was it man on to the coaching world how about that though you and veach man a lot of a lot of i don't know if a lot of people know you and brett veach played college ball together.

You were throwing my guy touchdown passes left and right, man.

Veach was your wide receiver, right?

He was, yeah.

He came in as a running back.

I don't know if y'all know that, but he played at a big program in Mount Carmel.

His dad was the coach, and he was a year college-wise younger than me.

And so he came in as a running back, and we needed some help at wide receiver.

So we bumped him to wide receiver there towards the end of my career.

And I was out there throwing him passes, man, for a couple of years.

And he was awesome, man.

We had a couple plays versus Villanova that we still still talk about to this day and and he was just uh he was a hell of a player hell yeah dog that's so crazy man going to college with somebody like that and then finding a way to to work with them and win championships with them that's got to be a cool connection man between you guys oh there's no doubt and and you know the reason why i'm in the nfl right now is because of brett veach my dog Speaking of coaching and college, you guys are going to be setting to St.

Joe's before sooner or later for a little bit of training camp action.

You guys are getting back Rashi Rice and Isaiah Pacheco

fully healthy this year, coming off of some injuries.

How much both those guys mean when they're fully healthy for you guys up

for Kansas City?

It's huge for us.

And, you know, these guys, I think it's very important for everybody to know.

Like,

people talk about it, and I've been able to witness it, but when they, these guys, they don't understand it.

And Pat went through it with Alex, but they don't understand how lucky they are to be able to have Trav help them and what they do, understanding how to practice, how to run routes you know the little details of just understanding how to take coaching and and so like I watch I watch and I know it's been documented but like when Trav takes them off to the side and starts talking to them in his own lingo of how to run a certain route that's like 10 times his weight in gold versus what any of us coaches are going to tell these guys because it's respect factor that they have and and he doesn't have to do that and he's he's he's the greatest tight end you know to ever play the game jace you're the greatest center to ever play the game I mean, that's an unbelievable tandem.

And for me to be able to coach you guys and see what you guys were as mentors, those two young guys, Rashi and Xavier, what they have with Trab and what they have with Coach Reed and Patrick, it's special.

And it really, honestly, like it makes coaching fun and it lets them just grow.

And like, we see the growth and development.

And that's the exciting part is like to put it all together.

And everyone's so selfless.

Yeah.

And those are the best teams.

The best teams are when the players are also coaching, right?

They're coaching up the young guys.

For sure.

And that's also helping them retain it.

Like, I always felt like, you know, the players coaching like the young guys, it wasn't like I was saying anything different than what Stout was saying.

I'm just regurgitating that, but I'm saying it in a way because we're both on the same end receiving it from Stout.

And when you say it to the player next to you, they're receiving it in the same way you interpreted it from the coach.

Does that make sense?

100%.

There's like a weird thing where like when you both are receiving the information from the head coach, then you have the same frame of reference from how it's taught it's easier then to go off of that and say basically the same thing just in like a slightly different way that the guy understands it maybe in a different way right it's just a little bit more reassuring for the young guys and i appreciate you saying that nags you already know

i'm just one i'm just one of your disciples man i just know i can find a way to to to make it make sense a little bit more and sometimes all it takes is a few extra conversations about what we're seeing out there to really get everybody on the same page man for sure absolutely you keep mentioning uh a guy named pat mahomes though yeah

and i know uh we need to clear something up here we had uh we had we had old patty mahomes on the show and he told us a story uh prior to his draft interview with the chiefs that you gave him

the keys to the you gave him the answers did you give him

answers to the test

you gave him the answers to the test

yeah man fortunately uh it ended up working out pretty good.

You know, I mean, Veech and I were, you know, we knew how much Veech and Coach Reed liked them.

And obviously, I was in love with them too.

So, like, you go into that process, and you guys know that whole deal with the combine and how it goes.

But, man, when you're convicted with somebody and you feel the way that we all did,

I don't know.

I guess it was better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

One of those type of deals.

I love it.

Yeah, I'll never forget it because we just sat back and we went through off to the side in the deal, like in between meetings throughout the the day.

It was middle of the day.

We actually talked a little bit through August special, Trav.

Come on now, baby.

You know, just a little bit of simple plays, but a few of them.

And we also just said, hey, man, you can't, you got to get one or two wrong here.

It can't be 100% on the tech.

You got to get like a 95.

Yeah, he'll be obvious.

It'll be obvious.

But he killed it in the deal.

And I think it stayed pretty quiet for many years.

And then I guess he's the one that busted it out a few years ago.

Yeah, I love it.

Fortunately, it ended up working out.

Unbelievable, dog.

Well, let me ask you this.

What made you so confident that Pat was the guy coming out to be able to do that?

You know, watching the tape, when we watch these players on tape, you know, you sit there and you can't put the tape down.

You just want to keep watching more and more and more.

And as you're watching it, you just see the plays that he's making and these stupid throws that, you know, he saw so much drop eight in college.

There was so much drop eight.

So it was like part of you was like, he's seeing all this drop eight.

He's trambling around.

And, you know, no one's better than him when he's outside the pocket running around.

around, he can make special throws.

And he was doing a lot of that.

So the question was like, okay, what type of person is he?

And, you know, what's his, you know, football IQ like?

And does he love the game and all this stuff, the intangible things?

And so like, as we all started watching more and more tape, we were like, you know, Coach Reed and Veech and these guys were like, we got to, we got to take these quarterbacks.

We got to bring them into the room and spend like, you know, a good six to eight hours with each of these guys in that draft class.

And really, you know, we knew how much we loved the player, but bringing him in and just seeing him take it to the top with the person side of it was

unbelievable.

And like you could just see like he was special.

And you didn't know it until things were going to happen.

But I mean, my gosh, like we were all on board.

It was all conviction.

And

I just couldn't put the film down.

He was just special.

I hear you, man.

I'm with you on the first time you meet him, man.

That first, what's up, dog?

That first, like, y'all was good.

It's like, it's like your family forever after you get that from him, man.

He's such a good dude.

And I already know he's going to ace that part of the test every single time.

And I'm sure the football IQ was already through the roof when he got in.

The second that happened, the moment it happened, we were super excited.

And, you know, it just was, it was one of those deals where then he came in as the freshman, or excuse me, as a rookie with Alex, you know, and it's like, and Alex taught me as a young position coach, you know, he's one of the most special human beings and people in my life.

And what he did

for that room and for Patrick and for myself and coach everybody that year, well, I'll never forget it.

And I just could tell story after story of that season of how good he was to Patrick and also how well Patrick came in.

Like, like, Patrick didn't come in trying to be like, hey, I'm the future guy.

He came in the best teammate he could possibly be.

No doubt.

And it just took off.

And I think, like, you know,

I'll say this, though, a lot of the times that it's a two-way street, but the veteran in the room usually dictates how that goes.

Because if the veteran is open to it and they embrace this opportunity to teach this young guy and to be a productive room, it usually goes well, right?

Without a doubt.

I mean, Alex is, you know, because of how good Patrick is, people forget what Alex did in the time that he was here.

Especially that year.

Especially that year specifically.

That year, because remember, we all remember, because we kind of took a personal, you know, everyone was calling Alex like a game manager, check down Charlie type guy.

And go back to 17, his last year when Patrick was drafted.

Go back and check out the numbers and tell us who had the lose situation

downfield.

Like he didn't care.

And Patrick, or Alex was just killing it, man.

And he's a winner.

He's a hell of a person.

And like you guys said, man, what he did for Patrick and for me as a coach, coach, I mean, come on, man.

That was unbelievable.

As good as gold, baby.

What he did for me as a professional, his aura in the facility and how he conducted himself as a professional gave me an understanding of what I needed to get better at.

Sure.

And it wasn't always, it wasn't necessarily the attributes.

It was how am I organizing all this information?

How am I making myself better Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday?

Like, how am I setting up that day on Tuesday?

How am I setting up my day on Wednesday to understand the entire base game plan?

You know what I mean?

Watching Alex and just talking to him about football, he gave you that confidence and understanding that he knew everything

he could possibly need to know about the defense he was playing.

And when you have that

trust in

not only the guy that's slinging the ball around, but when you have that trust in somebody next to you, you know, Mitchell Schwartz was the exact same way, somebody that I could, I knew he knew the answers to the test because he was so smart and he understood defenses like that.

And Alex, I would just go up to him and talk to him about pointless backside of the routes where I knew when it was zoned, he was going to the three-by side.

And I would just be in my mind, like, hey, like, is there ever a chance you're kind of like peaking back here one-on-one?

You know what I mean?

I would just go up to him and just ask him questions, trying not to be annoying with it.

But I would just, I just love talking ball with the guy.

And he made me such a better player by just giving me just free wisdom, man.

Yeah.

And he had so much common sense, too.

Like, and like, just like, you know, some guys are super smart.

He's super smart, really intelligent, high football.

Yeah.

But he also had like the self-awareness of common sense of understanding like, you know, why he did certain things.

And I think like to me, I'll like, that's your, your perspective, Trav.

And Pat has his own.

But for me, I was a first-year quarterback coach in 2013.

And I, and the quarterback that we traded for to come into the Chiefs was Alex, his first year from San Fran.

Smitty, yeah.

He had like six or seven different coordinators at that time.

He forgot more football than I knew.

So me coming in to try to coach him, like that wasn't easy.

But again, he was able to like learn how to trust me over time and me, you know, just try to kind of ease my way into it.

Man, he, I'm just so indebted to Alex, man.

He's one of, he's just a special, special person.

I do got to ask this, though, back on Patty Mahomes.

From that, from that rookie year, you had the, you had your, your, your run in, in Chicago and you've, you've come back between those, that, those, that first year and the years now, where do you think he's like changed the most in terms of how he progressed his game from that first year?

Without a doubt, his protections.

You know, he came in his rookie year in 17 and really, I mean, he was just learning how to call plays.

He was all no huddle.

So like take a snap under center rookie year, understanding

coverages on the back end protections.

But now, I mean, you guys know how we do those walkthroughs in the morning.

And as,

you know, in 18, 19, 20, 21, those years where, you know, everything was just, you guys were clicking and like he was learning through the coaches I talked to and through him, like the protections.

If he didn't get the protections right, it didn't matter.

You know, and you got to know where your hots are.

You got to know where you're going with the football, understanding that part of it.

And then you can take like the

ability to make the special throws and just know when that's going to happen.

And now, when I got back in 22 as a quarterback coach and then 23, 24, the last few years as coordinator, I've really gotten to see him understand the student of the game part of not just understanding and being a master of protections.

Now, his leadership, what he's learned through you, Trav, and your guys's time together of like how to how to lead the players, but then also how to lead the coaches like us that are with him, like how the communication part of like, listen, you might be explaining a certain route a certain way to a guy or a young guy, but also this is how I see it.

This is how we see it.

Think about, you know, doing things this way.

And so like, he gets why we're doing the big picture, but from again, a player's perspective, think about it from this way or that way.

He's grown that way.

He would have never done that at his early years.

You know, there's a a lot of things he didn't know.

He does know a lot now.

He knows what he's seeing coverage-wise.

He knows when the blitzes are coming.

And sometimes, you know, it's our job as coaches to make sure that we don't let that get in the way.

But he's grown in so many different areas.

But the probably the biggest part is the change he hasn't done.

He's never changed as like he's such a good person and he still competes every single day.

Patty Mahon, babe.

And everything he does is Patty Mahon is 100% all the time.

And he's just special.

He's in a great place.

Jason played with my guy, Gardner minshew what was it two years ago

great dude great great guy how's how's how's minshu been in the uh in the qb room he he's sparking it up or is he just he's playing it he's playing it cool right now so when he first came in uh day one you know he he started it was funny um he he basically pulled a prank on our quarterback coach with asking where the quarterback room is at with on girardi man he was messing with him the first day

yeah he got him the first day just messing with him and and uh it was one of the d's jokes so he asked him where room four

he came in he's like man they told me the quarterback room is in four four d like he couldn't figure out where and girardi kind of looked at him like what are you talking about for and he goes four d's

you know

and he kind of swiveled his hips a little bit and he's he's kind of it was it was it was a good icebreaker i'll say that for girardi but he's been really good man he he understands the the game he's smart um he's just a great guy and i think like in the room you know he he really he understands where we're at he understands where he wants to go.

And man, he's just, he is a character, but he, but he also knows when to, you know, lock in and really get serious.

He's studying all the time.

For sure.

Oh, he's a pro.

Yeah, he's a pro.

I got to ask you, offensive line,

you drafted Josh Simmons.

This kid looks incredible, looked incredible at Ohio State.

What do you think he'll bring once he's fully back and healthy?

Yeah, I really love his athleticism.

You're right.

I mean, his, his, um, his ability to really show his strength and athleticism on the edge, one-on-one, being able to recover if he gets beat.

I mean, it's rare.

Dude, it was like flashes of like Jason Peters, like Trent Williams type of movement and bending and redirecting.

I agree.

100%.

Yeah.

Agree, man.

He's going to really put it together.

And I think like right now, just...

Jason, as you know, man, just kind of understanding the calls and all the different calls you can have at the line of scrimmage when you're going to squeeze.

That's what the guard's for.

He's got to block the the man Mountain Dean on the end.

The guard can tell him, you know,

that's right.

That's right.

So he's really, really been locked in, though.

It's been great to see him like in meetings and out of practice.

He's almost sometimes a little bit too serious because he's really locked in.

It's good to see.

That's what blew me away was everybody's talking about how athletic he is.

And you see that immediately

seeing him go through drills and how comfortable he is, how his base, how great of a base he has and everything like that.

But even when he's just like working some of the scout team stuff because his knee isn't just quite back for him to go full go yet, he's dialed in.

He's giving good looks.

He's making sure he's helped.

Like he is, he is a professional already.

He is so bought in and he understands, I think, where what situation that he's in and being that big of a pick for

the Chiefs, maybe.

I think he's actually light years ahead of where I was imagining he could be.

Not to say that I was expecting something else.

I just didn't know what to expect from him, not knowing him that well.

He's a rookie.

Yeah, exactly.

He's a rookie, but he is dialed in and he looks like he's ready to work, baby.

And I love that about him.

He is dialed in.

I will say this, though, and I gotta, you know, Trav, I don't know if I've ever told you this story.

Maybe I have, but the one difference, and there's a back in 2011, I do remember a

sixth-round draft pick coming in as a rookie.

And I got to tell you this story.

I don't know if Simmons has this in him right now, but I'll never forget it for all my life.

So I'm a quality control coach, and we're in training camp in Philadelphia and

it's in the evening and we're kind of in the middle of camp.

Guys are tired or pissed off, angry, whatever, you know, but getting ready to do a little learning at nighttime in the installs.

We're having a special teams meeting at around six o'clock at night.

So everyone's in the special teams room, most of the team.

And then there's a bunch of like quarterbacks and quarterback coaches and assistants and some guys that aren't in there that are just kind of hanging out in the hallway.

And all of a sudden you just hear this cursing and freaking out and like yelling.

And it's this, all of a sudden,

running up the steps, these doors pop open and this big grizzly bear just pops out of nowhere and just starts MFing everybody and just starts just pounding, just pounding on the special teams.

In the middle of the meeting, he's pounding on the special teams door, pops it open, and it's just like, who the F did, who messed with my car?

You cut paper in my car.

You stuck a banana in the pipe.

You've, you saran-wrapped it.

Who the F did it?

And all these, all these guys are in the middle of a special teams meeting like turn around like what are we talking about here's a rookie interrupting the team special teams wanting to kill somebody for messing with his car in the middle of training camp and we looked at each other to the side us coaches we go are you freaking kidding me we got somebody here man you got freaking psycho

looking around i like that that was a positive yeah i definitely remember that

oh you kidding me i definitely don't forget that that was wild that was i was like hit the door first and avant came out afterwards and he was like man, I thought somebody was shooting a gun out here.

I thought there was gunshots going.

It was just you hitting the door.

I'll never forget it, man.

I always tell all the rookies that.

I remember him telling me that story when I was at Cincinnati.

He was like, Yeah, man, somebody fucked with my car.

And I swear to God, if I find out who it is, I'm going to kill him.

And I'm just like, dude, you're a rookie.

And all we care about as coaches was we just loved it.

We're like, yeah, we got a guy.

Six round.

We got him.

He's fired up.

He's fired up.

That's awesome.

Sometimes you just got to show your little nuts, man.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't have an issue with that.

Don't take it there.

Don't take it there.

It's easy when you're nuts.

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So being under Andy Reid or being with Coach Reid for so long, is there any play that is ever off the table?

Have you ever gone to him with something like, man,

I don't know if he's going to love this or I don't know if he's going to, you know, if he's going to think this is too crazy?

You know what?

There's really not, I will say, I mean, even to the point, you know, Kelsey, we put that one play in for Chris Jones that we had him doing a little bit of a pass and he just,

Jason, you have no idea.

This shit was, it was bad.

Dude, Chris, Chris, I love Chris Jones to death.

I don't know what it was, but he just needs to stay on the defensive side.

Yeah, it just, we put it in for him and we had him doing a little throw.

And it just, I mean, usually, coach, we put it in the incubator like with Don Terry Poe.

And you know what to jump to the side?

Just let that thing simmer, baby.

You wish it for a couple weeks.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, this one was called swinging D, and it wasn't working, man.

That play wasn't working.

Swinging D?

Are you kidding me?

That is amazing.

It had the name.

it had the reference it dude it it didn't work we ran it he would check and it was a throw to me every single throw was like five yards behind me at my feet i'm just like coach i don't think this is gonna work

it got canned it lasted about two weeks and then swinging d went out so no more of that that was gone but that's about the only one you know coach man and the when you guys come up with the stuff it means so much more for him and he likes it and stamps it so much better when when you guys do your creativity.

So that's the best part.

I still got one in my back pocket.

I just might need to just put it on a little note card and just

shove it under his door one of these days, man.

Make sure it gets to him.

You got to get it on his whiteboard there.

And he gets that beautiful mind going in his whiteboard, man, and you don't know what pops up.

There you go.

Speaking of coach, what's it like being Andy Reed's offensive coordinator?

Every single day, I make sure that I never take it for granted.

And not just being the offensive coordinator, but just being with him,

being so lucky to be around him every single day i look back to when he first hired me in 2010 been with him you know till 2017 and then when i left to chicago and now to be able to take me back and just get to see it from a different perspective yeah he's taught me so much um of how to you know be a coach but how to handle certain situations um whether it's a a player on or off the field we talk so much life stuff too you know know, that probably a lot of people don't know or understand in the coaching world.

I mean, it's a lot of X's and O's, but we're together a lot.

And so he's given me a lot of fatherly lessons of like how to understand, you know, with me having four boys and as they're growing up, things that I can do to help to help out and be better.

And

I think like, you know, this is one of the greatest coaches to ever coach in NFL history.

And I don't ever take that for granted.

So like I'm still trying to take in when he gives me a note on a simple play that we've been doing for 15 years.

i don't want to forget that part of it or if he gives me a coaching point of uh you know how to coach a coach right and how to how to handle a situation on how to do an install what am i doing am i saying a few words you know too many times you know little things like that absolutely he's always trying to make us better and trav you know like being together all these years like with whether it's a certain route or whatever or the blocking technique he's always going to just try to help you out and and and it's all for one common denominator as you know too jace more than anybody it's it's that it comes from love, man.

Like, this guy, he loves his players.

And he loves to see them have success, man.

He wants that success for him, man.

He does.

And I think, like, that's where, for me to watch that and be a part of that.

I try to tell these young coaches right now, like, what they, how fortunate they are to be able to coach for him and what, you know, we want to do it for him.

One of my favorites installs ever.

My guy, he was, he's up there and he's kind of talking it through and Byron Pringle, one of my, my favorite, he played in Chi-Town too, man.

Listen, Byron Pringle was a wide receiver for us.

One of the most physical, like, they didn't get enough credit for the things he did for our team.

And Pringle, it was getting, he was starting to catch strides and he had a big preseason game and he made the team and coach was like installing a play and he looked over at Pringle and said, Pringle, this plays for you, baby.

I'm going to get you that chip deal, baby.

I'm going to get you that chip deal.

They all started dying, laughing.

I'm like, Ringo, once you pop the bundle.

Oh, man.

And he did.

He probably did.

It probably worked.

Do you have any favorite, Andy, story before we move on from Coach?

Gosh, there's so many of them.

Ah, gosh, I'm getting caught off guard right now.

The one story that...

that

occurred in my first stint here in 20, I think it was 16 or 17.

It was like a Tuesday night.

We're game planning.

And every evening,

Coach and I will go at around five o'clock and we'll go down to the kitchen, cafeteria, and we'll sit down in between our break for half an hour and we'll grab some food.

And we've done it for many, many years.

And so it was about a 5.30 on a Tuesday.

We're in between.

It's just Coach and I

in the cafeteria.

And it happened to be a steak night.

So we're sitting there and he's eating, he's eating his steak.

And

he kind of, all of a sudden,

I get up and i walk over to the trash can to throw something away and i look over to the table and i see him kind of like sneezing and i'm like man coach is sneezing oh he'll be all right and he just keeps sneezing and i'm i'm sitting there and then he stands up and i'm like looking i'm like yeah i don't want to bother him he's sneezing i'll let him go and all of a sudden he like he kind of like like stops like coughing and choking and i'm like the guy's choking like he's he's choking and i'm not i gotta go and all and he stopped, and he's like, oh, man.

He looks at me and he's like, he's like, man, I go, oh, coach, I thought you were sneezing.

He goes, no, I was choking on a piece of steak.

And I go, what?

I go, like, I thought you were sneezing.

I didn't, I didn't know what was going on.

And so here it is, like, I'm such an idiot because I'm trying to be polite and like not bother him for sneezing.

But the guy is choking on a piece of steak.

And it's just me and him.

If he goes down, it's totally my fault.

You had a chance to Heimlich maneuver Andy Reed.

I've never done it ever.

And I could have just got him and just, you know,

and that would have been quite the story.

But thank God he saved himself.

Thank goodness.

Thank goodness.

Yeah.

Before we get move along from just coaching in general,

from your time learning under Coach Reed and then the time in Chi-Town, from going from, you know, offensive coordinator and everything,

you were even dialing up plays that year, that last year with Smitty and everything.

Yeah.

What was the biggest difference in leading both sides of the ball and being that head coach in Chicago than it was just being a coordinator.

Like, what do you think the biggest difference was?

100% the relationships with the entire team.

So, the defense and the special teams, and then understanding, making sure that those guys know I have the pulse of who they are and what's going on.

And so, like, in 2018, when we got to Chicago,

there just wasn't a lot of energy.

You know, they needed a little bit of positivity going around.

And I think like what we had to do was create that culture.

And the only way you do that is by winning, but you got to build trust and you got to build relationships with the players so they do trust you and the only way to do that is to be around them like you can sit there and talk x's and o's all you want but if you're not around them and they don't know who you are and you don't know who they are um it won't it won't work and i think like for me my best time to do that was to jump into meetings where I couldn't do that as a coordinator, you know, so like as a head coach, I can jump into the special teams meeting.

I can jump in to Coach Fangio's defensive meetings.

And then when we're out stretching, like I would walk around and talk to all the defensive guys.

And then I would meet with some of the guys one-on-one and try to build a rapport with those with those leaders.

And I think like, you know, as the three years after that went on till 2021, where I look back and reflect and say, man, I wish I would have done this better.

It's staying on top of those relationships that we built.

And, you know, like.

New players come in, old players leave.

I probably didn't do a good enough job of creating that bond with those players and sustaining it so that when you hit a tough tough patch, you can get through that, you know, get through the loads.

And I think like that's where I needed to be better.

And I reflect on that a lot.

And, you know, you guys both know me.

Like I'm an outgoing person and I feel like it's, you know, it's important to have a good relationship with guys and let them trust you, but

you got to be able to sustain that.

And so as a head coach, for me, that was my biggest thing that I really look back on now.

I'm like, damn, I wish I would have done a better job there.

And, you know, you learn from it.

You learn from those mistakes.

Oh, yeah.

That's, that's all it is.

You already know you learn from you're still one of the best coaches i've ever had in my career man and i'm so thankful that you've that you've been there for me well i appreciate that man if that double doink doesn't happen matt you might still be the head coach of the chicago like think about it it went from that double doink

to we lost in new orleans barely lost we should have could potentially won that at the end with the drop but it was la and la wasn't like i don't know you guys are rolling towards the end of the year there the defense was good rolling baby we were rolling.

You're right.

And I mean, you look at it.

And then in 2019, you know, we went 500.

And then in 2020, same thing.

We made the playoffs and played, you know, lost to the Saints in the playoffs.

And then in 2021, you know, we just we fell off.

So again, you know, the competitor to me, you want to be better, but I got to use that to learn it, be better.

And everything happens for a reason, man.

And get to be back here with Trav and coaching these guys and win some Super Bowls.

And I'm going to learn from it.

But I appreciate y'all.

You know, we're still having fun, baby.

Yeah.

I do want to ask you one question from that game.

Was it your idea or Vic's?

You guys kept holding the sub-guy, and it messed up all of our game plan-specific runs.

Like, we kept calling all these plays in a six-like goal-line deep.

I'm like, bro, we can't run this play to a 6-1.

Like, what are we doing?

Like, I was getting so pissed off because the play kept coming in, and then you'd see the big defensive lineman right off the hell.

I was like, we can't run this.

We got 11 personnel out here.

It was messing up.

Yeah, it was, it was honestly it was great coaching it was great coaching that was that was all vic and his defensive staff those guys did a hell of a job i i was so lucky you know to to be able to spend a year with him and man we when when he decided to take that job in denver as the head coach um i'll never forget being there with ryan pace and joey lane um sitting at a restaurant with vic and he was so torn because he loved his players so much and we loved him so much and we knew what we had and and um you know hey it was his opportunity to go be a head coach but man obviously he's a he's a wizard.

He's a hell of a coach.

He's a great person, and I have a ton of respect for him.

Hell yeah.

I was going to say, Dayton, you were talking about that 2018 and coming in.

And I just remember, I remember in 2013 when you guys came in, you know, we were such a veteran team.

We had, you know, the team may have just went 2-14, but we had Pro Bowlers.

We had superstars.

We had guys

that were at the top of their game, like Eric Berry, Justin Houston.

When Alex came in, you know, Jamal Charles, you know, we had, we had studs

on both sides of the ball.

And the Tomba Ali and Derek John, I mean, I could keep going.

We had guys, right?

Goes on and on, yeah.

Dude, the defense when you first got there was insane.

Stacked.

I mean, you already know.

Probably one of the most stacked defenses I've ever seen.

Yeah.

I agree.

It was ridiculous, man.

Brandon Flowers.

We had a whole bunch of studs.

And it was crazy to me that one this team went two and 14 the year before but two when coach reed came in i can tell the difference to this day of coach reed's demeanor in having to come in and break that culture yeah it wasn't necessary and don't get me wrong they like i have no idea what the situation was with the coaches before that or anything but i heard guys complaining nonstop about how much and how hard we were practicing and nowadays you don't hear anybody complaining.

You guys, you just hear guys accepting that.

I've never

hear that out of me.

I don't believe it.

I'll be the first one to put the pads on.

All right, all right.

Yeah, I would confirm that, man.

You guys, you, and I just say this real quick, the reason and a huge reason that you guys bought in early on and you guys have taken the torch and you've just, you've done this with it.

And everybody sees it now.

You can't not because of you guys wanting to do it.

It's not a complaint.

There are times it's like, man, we got to fucking do this again.

Like, there's that, but it's the acceptance of this is the system.

This is how you become great and it works.

Right, you're doing it.

And you're

whether it's the right thing to do or not.

It's a completely different situation back in 13 on the veterans that we had in there and how they were used to working and doing things and how Coach Reed came in and gave them a new perspective on it.

And I really think that would, that's that turnaround with that talent, you saw it immediately.

We won the first 10 games

right off the bat because of how much those veteran guys knew the game of football played well together when they when they had that work ethic and and how just i don't know everything came together but i'll tell you what man i i can only imagine how tough it is to go in there and demand that that discipline and that trust in trying to break a system that hadn't been working no doubt and i'll i'll never forget the the first meeting that coach reed had that year you're talking about and and just painting the picture again he coach reed for the very first team meeting in 2013, we had our first team meeting.

The entire team was in the team room.

And those doors opened and he came walking in and it was quiet.

And I remember I was sitting in the corner and I looked over and in the front row was all those dudes you just talked about.

Tom Bali, Justin Houston, Eric Berry, Don Terry Poe, you know, Dwayne Bo, Charlton Dramalch.

It goes on and on and on.

Oh, yeah.

They were literally sitting up in their seat with their hands on their knees and their eyes were huge and they were just staring at this guy.

And the second I saw that, I was like, they believe.

This is what they needed.

They believe.

And then coach just took it from there.

And you remember we did all that no huddle this first couple days.

Come on, no.

Come on.

That was crazy.

And it wasn't just, it wasn't the long drive drill.

It's different when it's 18 plays of huddle.

Yeah.

Oh, for sure.

It's a completely different experience when it is a no huddle long drive drill.

That is where you're fucking, you just want to just, you look at Alex is like, just check it down.

Just throw it, just throw it immediately to the check down so we can get to the next play and get through this thing, man.

Please.

Secretly, for the O-line, I'm kind of all about it because the D-line's only good for the first few plays.

It's a big lead fist after that.

Hey, Jay, so coach comes in the first, and he doesn't even, and Trav probably doesn't even know this, but he has us working all offseason to get ready for this, this, this OTAs, that first year in 2013.

And all of a sudden, before the first couple practices, he walks into the staff room with the coaches and he says, all right, fellas, and he puts the playbook down and he goes, here's what we're going to do.

These first six practices, we're going no huddle tempo every single play.

We're like, what?

We have the play scripted.

And he's like, no, it's, we're going no huddle.

Every play is no huddle.

And we didn't know it at the time.

Yeah, why?

That was his way of making them think mentally, trying to break them down,

condition them, but make them get tired and see how they respond to some frustration.

He was like a wizard, man.

I'll never forget going back to that.

And then, like you said, we went 9-0, 10-0, and ended up making the playoffs.

That's amazing hell yeah baby speaking of first impressions what was your first impressions of travis kelsey we talked about me i want to know what you thought of travis yeah when you first got to know him no man i'm telling you what so he gets in his his first year

And like, you just, you see this guy and you can just, it's the same, same way with Pat.

Like you, you know, watching the tape, what he brings and what he did.

And then, you know, he's got that quarterback background.

But I always start with the person.

Like, I could, you could just tell the competitor that he was and just the the the like the fire that he had to be great from early on from day one.

And I'll never forget like just getting him in the OTAs, getting him in practices.

And then when when things really took off then when you got in there

and that, what was it, the

Cincinnati game?

Oh, that second, second preseason game.

Second preseason game.

Second preseason game because you had your injury there.

The second preseason game, you ran an August special where you nodded the guy, guy, caught it up the seam, and went like 70 yards and outran a corner and a safety linebacker.

And we all looked at each other on the sideline and we just said, did we just see that?

And of course, Trav goes and he just dives into the end zone and does like a somersault into the end, just like sprawls.

And we looked at each other like, this is going to be fun.

And then every game, like you just keep seeing the growth of like, you know, what he was able to do.

Like the one year we got New England into base defense a lot.

So we would go to 13 personnel and get them in base and put Kelse out there and let him run bubbles and RPOs.

And like, okay, you want to go big?

We're going to throw the ball.

You want to go little?

We'll run the ball and block.

And so like playing that cap mouse game for all those years, but like just to see now, I mean, this man, he has routes that are named after him.

I go and talk to these college coaches and they're like, man, we're running the Kelsey route.

They're like, what the hell is the Kelsey route?

That's what I want to know.

And he starts showing all these routes.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's this route here.

But man, he just put, and then we talk about like seven different routes we have in the playbook and Kelse puts his own spin on it.

And it's just like, it's rare.

There's

no one else like it.

And him and Pat, what they've done

is just, and then you put the fire, the competitiveness, the loyalty, the trust, the love, the passion, like everything about that.

You know, Jason, I mean, you guys are blood, man.

You know what I mean?

So it's like, it's just, it's, it makes you such a good coach.

I love it.

I love it.

Man, I'll tell you what.

I'll ask you about Jason, but you already told us your first impression of him was him being a fucking psychopath.

You knew exactly what you had in your back pockets.

Psycho, but you know, it was always with Jace, it was, you know, here's a guy that comes in, sixth-round draft pick that comes in, but you could tell right away, he had so much damn trust in his ability and who he was, and he was going to outwork everybody.

He was going to be so coachable, and he was just going to fight you to the end, man.

He was just, he was going to fight you literally.

And that's what you both have.

Like, you both have that.

And it's like,

that's a DNA thing.

Not all kids have that.

You guys have it.

And to do what you've done, like for your parents raising you the way they have, like the bond and the kinship that y'all have.

But watching you out to, I was, you know, I'm like Coach Reed on a lower level.

I got to see both of you come in as rookies.

I got to be with you guys, you know, throughout this journey.

And I'm so lucky because like that, like you guys took it to the, to the max.

And not only that, but like I'm real big on just being yourself in this journey.

And you guys are yourselves.

Like you show your emotions.

You love each other, man.

You just, you're there for each other.

I'll never forget after that Super Bowl when we won against you guys the first time.

Like, I'll never forget that hug and that embrace and that look that you both had for each other.

And like, it's powerful.

And like, you just, here it is to this day what y'all are doing.

It's just, I, I, I'm lucky to be able to know y'all.

And I just, I love you guys, man.

You guys are special.

So it's not to get too cooky on here, man, but I just got so much respect and a lot of love for y'all.

Come on, baby.

You already know where emotional sons are.

No doubt.

Let's jump into it.

This is one of our last segments, but one of our favorite segments.

We gotta ask, but you don't have to answer.

Nags, you can tell us to fuck off.

You can just tell us to kick rocks if you don't want to answer these.

All right, all right, all right.

Who is the toughest defensive player to game plan for

in your career, in your coaching career?

Who have you like watched on film?

It's just like, man, I don't know how we're going to deal with this guy.

Yeah.

In all the career, huh?

I'm going to stay somewhat

somewhat current, and I'm just going to give a ton of respect to Max Crosby, man.

I just,

I mean, he's, and he's all over the place.

I mean, Kelsey, you know, there's times where they put him out and butched you

by the sideline.

And that's okay.

And you want to talk about a guy that'll fight you to the fucking end.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter what that score is.

Max is coming off the ball and he's going to fucking punch you in the mouth, man yeah i love competing against that dude but you're right he is he's unstoppable man he's one of the hardest to ever game plan for yeah and i you know i go back to the the philly days you know and those some of those rushes that we used to see from some of that that giants defensive line and the cowboys with demarcus ware back in the day i mean oh my gosh yeah right i mean and and so and and the guys on the inside there's so many but just just because i'm so current right now and losing my train of thought that's that's probably crosby's early on there there you go all right all right Do you still keep the BU on the play sheet?

No, I don't.

I don't.

No other reason because I just, I, uh, uh, I did that in Chicago and, and I, I haven't done that here, but I, I do, I do use that every single day, man.

I live by that thing.

Oh, yeah.

I hear it every day.

My oldest son, man, he told me that.

And that's, that's something that at the time, a 15-year-old told me.

And I'll never, you know, I think that's powerful, man.

Just be yourself.

Don't try to be someone different.

And that's something that, I mean, mean, Andy has always presented.

That's one of the things I've always loved about Andy everywhere he's been.

He wants guys to be their personality show, wants them to genuinely be themselves.

So I think I'm with you 100% on that.

Yeah.

That's the beautiful thing of a team.

I love how Coach Reed says this, and then he has all these rules that you got to like abide by, like tuck your shirt in.

Well, it's be

show your personalities within the confines

within the team.

You know, you don't know.

He finally figured out why he does all these things.

And yeah, I mean, he has like kind of that, that, that understanding of the military and how everybody has to, you know, present themselves with the right way and have that discipline aspect of like being one unit.

You know what I mean?

There's like, there's reasonings to it.

You guys know he doesn't miss a thing either.

Like he sees everything in training camp, the practice, like everybody, he sees peripher on everything, no matter who you are.

It could be a single thing.

Just when you do everything he's looking, man.

Yeah.

And my first year, I was back doing the cards in the back end and I had a hat on and I had a pencil in my ear and I heard this whistle from, and I'm a first year coach and I hear this whistle and I'm like, and I don't react, and I hear it again.

I look, and he's looking at me, and he points to here, and he goes, like, this, get rid of the pencil.

That was in 2010.

Never again in my life was there ever

on my hat.

Never, there never will be.

Wow, so good, man.

You gave Bears new head coach Ben Johnson this advice: win and beat the Packers.

What's the best coaching advice you've ever received?

The best coaching advice I've ever received was win and beat the Packers.

It was Coach Dikka.

Dikka!

Baby!

He told me that.

And unfortunately, we were one and seven against the Packers and Aaron Rodgers.

That's a tough draw.

Yeah, that was tough.

So

I wasn't able to do that.

So that's why I gave Ben that advice.

There you go.

As an offensive coordinator, do you think the average person could get one yard in the NFL and like running the football?

Or like just, you know what I mean?

Just back downside zone, get them a nice little screen out there.

I'm going to say

no.

I love it.

I love it.

You would have to get awfully lucky, dude.

Hey, listen, I'm not, that's no criticism.

If I was out there, I couldn't get a yard.

I used to think that, you know, the offensive line could get the average person a yard.

And Mitchell Schwartz actually gave the best rebuttal to this because I was like, The offensive line blocks it, like, anybody can just run behind them.

But Mitchell Schwartz said, You want to get it, man?

They're going to be so slow to get to that hole, like if they're going to be so out of phase with you, you know,

how to get to it.

This is a good point.

I never

know how to set up their blocks, yes, you know what I mean?

Like, they either got to catch the toss or they got to figure out the open pocket for the handoff.

What was your welcome to to the NFL moment, coach?

For me, it was probably

my first year coaching in Philadelphia, and I was in charge of the scripts.

Oh, yeah.

Making sure the scripts in training camp are done the right way.

And you guys remember Juan Castillo, obviously.

Oh, hell yes.

Juan became the went from the offensive side to the defensive coordinator.

And the guy knew how to get into the system and figure out what the plays were for training camp with an offensive play.

This has been alleged for a long time.

I didn't know it was proven.

Okay, all right.

Yeah, so me and Eugene, me and Eugene Chung were in charge of the scripts.

And one day,

yeah, man, coach Marty Morningweg called us into the office as the OC at the time, and he shut the door and he said, hey, man.

And he just read us the riot act about not letting, how the heck are you going to let Wong get into the system and see our plays?

This is BS.

This doesn't happen.

And I mean, I'm talking about he chewed our asses out.

And we walked out of there.

And I'm like, I had one job to make sure that the defense doesn't get the scripts.

So now, like, we have such a high-tech system right now, like, you're not finding what plays we're doing.

Like, Spags isn't finding training camp scripts anymore.

Like, we've, we got our quality control guys ready, but that was my welcome into the NFL.

I was like, man, I got to get this right.

So good.

I will say, this is always alleged, though.

Like, every time the defense is kicking our tails, the coaches got the scripts.

Oh, you just know you're going to be in split AA against this exact play.

Like, it's like,

that's always fun in training camp.

No doubt.

Let me ask you this.

It's not on here, but but I'm just curious.

So it feels like the NFL over the last couple of years, it always goes in waves.

And the Chiefs were such a high-powered offense for a long time.

Really, NFL offenses were high-powered.

It felt like points were up.

Recently, defenses have kind of felt like they've been getting the upper hand.

What have you seen change, I guess, that you think is leading to defenses having a little bit more success?

What are they doing differently?

You know, drop bait became a phase for a little while.

I think that's gone away a little bit.

I think that from the offensive perspective, for some teams,

you know, the running back position/slash plays aren't, you know, I don't know that 100%, but I feel like sometimes right now, like those downfield chunk plays, and we've talked about it here internally, you know, like the last couple of years of being able to try to get downfield.

You see more shell, you see teams saying, listen, man, we're going to bend, but don't break, and we're going to make teams be great in the red zone.

And I think like when you look back at the coverage schemes from these defensive coordinators back in the day, 10 years ago, even just 15, 12, 10 years ago, yeah, it was much more single high.

It was more predictable to understand what they were in.

And now you're seeing all these crazy different fronts and adjustments and blitz and back end stuff that, you know, you want to be able to try to take shots downfield.

And sometimes they're not going to let you, but, you know, it's real.

It's there.

And I think that right now teams are okay with like saying, you're not going to go downfield and then we're going to make you be great in the red zone and self-inflict with turnovers, penalties, etc um so it'll be it is the league cyclical i mean it's always it's always kind of changing and and maybe the run game comes back for more and there's there's bigger runs there and and then it brings more guys in the box to take shots but that's what i feel like nice all right makes sense baby makes a lot of sense to me 92 percenters one of my favorite coaches of all time

i appreciate you man you guys are the best dog coach thanks so much for joining us yeah man appreciate the time, dog.

Appreciate the stories.

Appreciate y'all, man.

I'm just lucky.

Appreciate y'all.

We'll see you in a few weeks at Minicamp, Coach.

You got to get back after this thing.

That wraps up another episode of New Heights, guys.

Thanks to Matt Naggy for joining us on the show.

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