Sanders’ Drop, Gorilla Fights and Ben Affleck on Accountant 2, Damon’s Abs and Catching with Brady | EP 137

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And KFC's starting a little holiday debate: turkey or chicken? Not much of a debate, if you ask me. Yeah, let's be real.

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Speaker 1 The NFL season is in full swing, and you know what that means. Time to eat meat.

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Speaker 1 What's your go-to deli platter, Jason? I mean, any of them.

Speaker 1 Dude, anything that combines crackers, meat, cheese, and mustard, it doesn't matter what kind it is. You got Pepper Jack, you got Provolone.

Speaker 1 You got cheddar.

Speaker 2 You got beer cheese.

Speaker 1 You got salami. You got kielbasa.
There you go. Don't be all archy with me.
Ritz crackers. Maybe you could do some of those like whole grain thick boys that are around.
Those are kind of nice too.

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Speaker 1 Travis Kelsey also famously slid from character concerns. So Shador, look no further.

Speaker 1 This could be you. Jason Kelsey, character concerns, found

Speaker 1 the sixth round.

Speaker 1 Character concerns and size concerns.

Speaker 1 We think about that Jason Kelsey guy. Well, I've heard he's an asshole.
He's a fucking lunatic. Loses his temper all the the times and on top of that he's too small let's bring him in the sixth round

Speaker 1 welcome back to new heights ladies and gentlemen boys and girls a wondry show produced by wave sports and entertainment and brought to you by dunkin donuts no way

Speaker 1 what a great sponsor they sent me munchkins

Speaker 1 The wonderful delight that just, it doesn't make you feel like you're eating too bad until the entire box is gone. You're like, oh, shit, that was a lot of donuts I just ate.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's the trick of it, right?

Speaker 1 Just make them smaller. You're going to eat more.
I'm definitely going to go. Breakfast sandwich.
Ooh, what you got there?

Speaker 1 Sausage chicken cheese, English muffin.

Speaker 1 Pretty damn good. We're your hosts.
I'm Travis Gelson, my big brother Jason Kelsey. You out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio.
Shout out to the Cavs, baby. The old Coliseum out in Richfield.

Speaker 1 Cavs swept the heat. Looking to advance already.
Getting some rest days.

Speaker 1 Subscribe on YouTube, OneTree Plus, wherever you get your podcast and follow the show on social media at New Heights Show with 1S. Jason, let the people know what we got coming up.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're going to want to stay tuned. We are going to recap everything that happened in the NFL draft.
Well, not everything.

Speaker 1 We're going to cut the hot spots like usual, answer some of your no-dumb questions, and we're going to get to a great combo with the one and only Mr. Ben Affleck.

Speaker 1 Okay, Tom Out. Is it Affleck or Affleck? It's Affleck, I believe.
I always call him Ben Affleck. That's not it.
You got to say it right. I probably said Ben Affleck as well.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's definitely E-C-K,

Speaker 1 but I feel like everybody pronounces it Ben Affleck. No, no, I don't think anybody does.
I've never heard anybody call Ben Ben Affleck. Never heard that.

Speaker 1 I think I hear it every single time I hear somebody say his name. Brandon, say Ben's name, Ben Affleck.

Speaker 1 You're only saying it because we just went over

Speaker 1 Ben Affleck. How fast was that? How quick on the draw was I with that? Ben Affleck.
That was quick. That was quick.
Am I just in a black mirror episode right now?

Speaker 1 I feel like that the whole, there's like a whole time conundrum thing of multi-university.

Speaker 1 I feel like you've been saying Affleck your entire life, but anybody that actually sees how his name is like wrote and written

Speaker 1 or like spelled,

Speaker 1 they're going to say it correctly. It's like people calling us Kelse our entire lives.

Speaker 1 No, that's that's well, you're wrong.

Speaker 1 Before we get any of that, we're going to get to that thing we always get to. New news!

Speaker 1 New news! All righty, new news is brought to you by American Express. Let's start with some Homage promo.
That's right, we're going to sell you some shit.

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Speaker 1 Oh, my God, what was the name from

Speaker 1 Parks and Rec? Tom Havert. Haverford.
Haverford. He doesn't know what I'm talking about.
Anyways, go treat yourself. Go to Amage.com slash NewHights and use promo code NewHights25.

Speaker 1 All right, guest episode announcement. We're going to be back next week with another episode.
90%ers are going to want to see and tune you for.

Speaker 1 We can say who it is if we really want to. Do we want to say? No, I think we should keep it on ice for a second.
Should we get teasers? Let's get some teasers. Ooh, all right.
All right. All right.

Speaker 1 We can't say this person's name, gender,

Speaker 1 where they're from, or where they live currently. Okay.

Speaker 1 She is somebody's mother. Travis, you can't say what gender it is.

Speaker 1 You're right. All right.
You won that one. God damn it, Travis.
Our mom is joining us. Yep, Donna Kelsey's joining us.
We're going to keep it together. Yeah, no.
We clearly couldn't not.

Speaker 1 It's Mother's Day special. Everybody knew who was coming on.
We're getting Donna Kelsey on the show. It's going to be a fucking blast because that's what Donna is.

Speaker 1 She's an absolute blast of a human being. It's going to be great.
I haven't had Mama Kelsey on in a while, so you guys will get caught up with how mommy's doing. Travis, you're a grown man.

Speaker 1 Stop calling Mom Mommy. Mommy.

Speaker 1 Stop it. Nope.
Stop that right now i'm gonna keep doing it i'm so comfortable with my manhood jason it's not about a manhood travis it's about being

Speaker 1 i don't know but it seems it's it's about being not weird what it is okay

Speaker 1 mommy i mean if you say it like that when you're around her not weird but when you say having mommy on that's weird no it's not

Speaker 1 yes girly

Speaker 1 Oh, no, Jason, you need to correct her right now. She either calls you dad or dada.

Speaker 1 She does not call you daddy. She does not call you daddy.
If she calls you daddy, that's just weird. No, Travis, she's a toddler.
All right, we got our mom coming on. Special episode.

Speaker 1 That's it for new news brought to you by American Express. All right, now we've actually got some NFL news.
Last week was the NFL draft, and apparently everyone tuned in.

Speaker 1 Why is the NFL draft so much better? than the other drafts

Speaker 1 besides the NFL just being overwatch.

Speaker 1 What's the turnover in the NFL? I think there's like there's always like at least like 300 to 400 new players every single year. I don't think it's like that in any other sport.
Yeah. Maybe baseball.

Speaker 1 The chances of the players you're watching get picked in the NBA actually making a difference outside of like the top

Speaker 1 you know what five picks like every year.

Speaker 1 It's like kind of a crapshoot a little bit. Is that what you're saying? I think so.
And I think the

Speaker 1 entire like, I don't know. That's a great question.
I'm trying to like like compare it to other sports, but college basketball, I would assume, is just as exciting as college football.

Speaker 1 And, you know, the anticipation of the greatest players in that league going to the next level. I don't know.
It's a great question.

Speaker 1 I think this is why football is king. Yeah.
All right. And let's look at the, let's look at who the Chiefs picked.
Sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Let's look at it.
Round number one,

Speaker 1 32nd overall pick, Josh Simmons,

Speaker 1 offensive tackle out of Ohio State. 6'5'317.
That's a big old boy right there. Big boy.
How big of a boy are you? This is one of the guys I actually watched a little bit. I

Speaker 1 like absolutely love this guy on tape. The way he moves

Speaker 1 reminds me a lot of some high-level players. The way he bends.
Plays with his ass low to the ground. His arms only say 33, but it feels like he's got much bigger length than that.

Speaker 1 He is big. He's strong.
He moves people. He's an outstanding pass blocker.
This and the Eagles' first-round picks were two of the biggest steals in the draft.

Speaker 1 I'm not just saying that because they're both our teams. I really think if Josh Simmons doesn't tear his Patel attendant, he's the first tackle off the board, most likely.

Speaker 1 The fact that the Chiefs got him at 32 could be like unbelievable value if he comes back from the knee injury.

Speaker 1 What are you talking about, Beach? We're going to have to wait and see how this kid comes back from this injury. No, I don't think he comes back.

Speaker 1 I think it's. I think it's a

Speaker 1 sign of seal delivered.

Speaker 1 This guy's going to be a Hall of Famer. I mean, if he comes back from the knee, there's a very good chance.
This guy was very impressive. If something tells me

Speaker 1 he's already there. He's already there.
Final two. Number 63, Omar Norman Lott.
How about it? D-tackle out of Tennessee.

Speaker 1 First defensive tackle to be selected by the Chiefs in the second round of since. Defensive tackle, Chris Jones.
Oh, hey. Oh, God.
I love being in the same conversations as Chris Jones.

Speaker 1 I've only seen highlights of these guys, and absolute stud. Absolute stud.
Got a revamped offensive line, defensive line with our first two to three picks. We went with Ashton,

Speaker 1 gosh, I don't know how to say his last name. Gelat? Gelati.

Speaker 1 Gelati? You sure? That's definitely not it. No, it's not it.
That's not it. It might be it, actually.
I have no idea. Played at Louisville, though.
Tells me he's got a blue-collar kid, hard worker.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you're going to the third round with the Chiefs,

Speaker 1 you're going to be just fine.

Speaker 1 I know one or two guys that are still on the team. 13 years down the road, they got picked in the third round.
Same defensive line coach as George Karloftis.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm a big fan of these top three picks. I think the Chiefs clearly last year obviously struggled at the tackle position.

Speaker 1 They answered that right away with Josh Simmons, a kid that could have incredible upside.

Speaker 1 And then really, they bolstered the defensive line with the next two picks, which, you know, they needed to do. I think that the defense is very close to being unbelievable.

Speaker 1 And because of Spags and some of the pieces, it was unbelievable last year. But they've needed to revamp a little bit of that size and athleticism up front.
And hopefully, these two kids can do that.

Speaker 1 You know what? Well, we didn't leave the third round without attacking the DB room. Got a cornerback out of Cal.

Speaker 1 Noel Williams led the FBS with seven interceptions. So

Speaker 1 I guess

Speaker 1 you'd already know we could love a good ball in the secondary now. He's got some accolades and, I mean, seven picks.
That's, I mean, you got to love a DB who can catch the fucking ball.

Speaker 1 Jalen Royals, wide receiver out of Utah State. This is how you get on you.
Dude, fourth round, getting a guy that runs a 4-4-2 that just takes shit to the house.

Speaker 1 I saw that he had like 15 touchdowns this year or something like that. He runs a 4-4-2.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's a strong wide receiver now. Round five, Jeffrey Bassa, linebacker, Oregon, tallied at least 45 tackles in each of his first four seasons with the Ducks.
Again, not that impressive.

Speaker 1 He served as Oregon's green dot in 2024.

Speaker 1 Meaning, he helped just bad misses 45 tackles in each of his first four seasons. Their special team is only getting 45 tackles, Brandon.

Speaker 1 He served as Oregon's green dot in 2024, meaning he called the defensive plays on the field. That is what that means.
You want to see the last guy?

Speaker 1 Brichard Smith, running back, smu heard through the grapevine through my guy uh garrick deeter and uh his uh smu uh connects um shout out to diets he was saying that this guy is a baller he's just an all-around baller he had 1977 all-purpose yards which is uh pretty ridiculous he ran the third fastest 40-yard dash of any running back at the combine um so yes it's really really excited about this guy he's a wide receiver i believe turned running back and um yeah excited to get an athlete like that and a guy that could just, you know, get the ball in his hands and do something with it.

Speaker 1 Sounds like a dual threat, multiple purpose type running back. Use him in a lot of different ways.
You guys had your back that did that a lot last year was Piran, which I loved. I loved Samajay Piran.

Speaker 1 Third down back. I was a dual back to Cincy, man.
God damn it. That guy was good, man.
Awesome, awesome teammate, too.

Speaker 1 I dug his overall vibe. Richard, maybe he can fill in that role.
That's a crucial role. We lost our guy there, Kenny Gainwell.
He was a big third-down back for us for a long time.

Speaker 1 Moved on this offseason. It's an important piece that a lot of times gets overlooked.
Who's that back that is kind of that jack of all trades, third down,

Speaker 1 very reliable? So they have a chance to compete. Round seven.
I love

Speaker 1 what we did in the draft, though. Handled some.

Speaker 1 We lost some guys on the defensive line, filled those roles,

Speaker 1 got a big old tackle to protect Pat and

Speaker 1 move some bodies in the run game. And then, on top of that, just add pieces left and right in the secondary and on the offensive weapons side, man.
It's uh, I'm pumped, man.

Speaker 1 I'm pumped to get these guys in the building and who knows what else Veech is cooking up with all the undrafted free agents that we're going to see in rookie minicamp next week.

Speaker 1 It's an exciting time of year, man. You get to see

Speaker 1 for those of you that don't know, we're going through all these drafts.

Speaker 1 I don't think Travis or I put a lot of stock in do pre-draft analysis.

Speaker 1 And the reason for that is like, you never know. I mean, sometimes you have a really good feeling about a guy.
A lot of times, teams will feel really good about a number of their guys.

Speaker 1 But at the end of the day, once the guy gets out there, once he gets in the building, that's when you really get to start to know who's who and what guys

Speaker 1 kind of have it, whether it's all the physical stature stuff, the mental acuity,

Speaker 1 the competitive nature. None of that stuff is really going to fully be transparent until you you start seeing them in person against NFL guys out on the field.

Speaker 1 So it's an exciting time to be in the NFL. Like, I think for all the fans, the exciting thing just happened, the draft, right? For players and teammates, now's the exciting time.

Speaker 1 Now we're going to get to see all these guys and all these new pieces and actually see

Speaker 1 who can play and who can compete. And who's going to make the building fun, man? Who's going to come in and juice us up and help the culture be even more exciting than what it is?

Speaker 1 hell yeah let's let's look at these eagles picks man what'd you guys go with eagles first round we trade with you guys how about that go from competing in the super bowl to trading draft picks let me tell you about my best friend the one who let me trade up to stop

Speaker 1 somebody else from taking him uh yeah so we uh traded with the Kansas City Chiefs from 32 to 31, just one spot to get Jihad Campbell from Alabama.

Speaker 1 Love this pick.

Speaker 1 I love this pick because I think the Eagles, what they've done really well the last few drafts that have panned out for them, is they've gotten amazing value at different spots where guys start to slide.

Speaker 1 And they are regarded by everybody out there as being players that are really, really talented that should have been taken higher.

Speaker 1 But for whatever reason, whether there's an injury like what happened with Josh Simmons, or maybe it's a position that doesn't necessarily get rated as highly, or there's times that are cause was a concern.

Speaker 1 The Eagles have done a great job of just picking really good players for value picks where that guy should have gone before that, based on how he was as a college player.

Speaker 1 And I think they got that with John Campbell. He's a linebacker.
For some reason, off-ball linebacker is a position that's been a little bit devalued in the NFL recently.

Speaker 1 Everybody tends to have gone defensive line or DBs with these picks early. I think the Eagles saw last year how much Zach Bond made a difference to the overall defense for Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 He was in for defensive player of the year. The Eagles have great coaches, and they probably have a lot of confidence in their ability of these coaches to scout different players.

Speaker 1 So they end up getting a guy that they really feel really highly about. Now you're going to pair him with Zach Bond.

Speaker 1 And I mean, this is an amazingly amazingly talented second level now in the Philadelphia Eagles with this guy. You can also rush the passer, I guess.

Speaker 1 But no, I'm excited. I'm excited to watch him play.
Round two, pick 64, safety. Andrew Makuba out of Texas.
Don't know much about him, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 Haven't watched a lot of college football, but Brandon Borders, our resident Texas expert, says he's a little guy that hits really hard. Dog.
Dog. You got a dog.

Speaker 1 You got a dog.

Speaker 1 I got a hype with my guy. I got a hype with my guy.
I love it. I love it.
I love it. A lot of hype coming out of Andrew McCuba.

Speaker 1 And I feel like another one. It's another similar pick where it feels like he was slated higher and the Eagles ended up getting him in the second round of pick 64.

Speaker 1 Round four, they go defensive tackle Ty Robinson. And not only are they getting guys of great value, they're getting guys of positions that they need, right? Linebacker,

Speaker 1 they lost a couple linebackers in the offseason. Nacobe Dean's coming off of injury.
They need to continue to upgrade that position. They get safety, Andrew McCoob, after letting CJ GJ go last year.

Speaker 1 Darius Slay, my man, Big Play Slay, is gone. So there's some secondary things that they need to shore up.
And then obviously, defensive line was their big need.

Speaker 1 I think a lot of people were talking about going into the draft. And they finally get to that in round four with Ty Robinson, teammate of Cam Jergens at Nebraska.

Speaker 1 He's, I don't know if you saw this, Trev. He has a pet camel.
Take a look at this tweet. Yeah.
I'm looking at it right now. I don't know.

Speaker 1 He's pretty fucking pumped on that camel.

Speaker 1 Where does he keep that thing? Where does he keep it? I don't know. I mean,

Speaker 1 at his barn, his farm. It's a camel farm.
It's got a camel farm, maybe. Are camels suited for every climate? They're suited for Nebraska, apparently.
There's actually.

Speaker 1 I mean, Omaha, Nebraska does have one of the finest zoos in

Speaker 1 the state of America.

Speaker 1 There's actually a camel. There's a little like petting zoo type farm thing that we took the girls to around our house one time, and they had a camel.
Do you think this guy spits?

Speaker 1 Camels are known for spitting. It's got a big spit in people's faces.
Little Bill Romanowski action to him. That ain't right.
I hope not. We got to play with a little bit more class, but

Speaker 1 same time. Whatever you got to do, you get the job done, Ty.
Don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 And then the rest of the draft, we continue to fill out. Needs on the defensive side of the ball as well as short up the offensive line.

Speaker 1 The offensive line was the position it felt like offensively that the Eagles wanted to continue to fill out the depth. I do think it's interesting.

Speaker 1 They didn't pick an offensive line until round five with Drew Kendall. And that tells me that they're pretty confident with who they have rolling into this.

Speaker 1 They got Tyler Steen at right guard, who has been competing for the starting job for at least one year. Really played a lot my last year, too.

Speaker 1 He's got a lot of upside, especially if he can improve the consistency.

Speaker 1 He's done a lot of good things with the Eagles. And then on top of that, signed Matt Pryor this offseason.
They traded for

Speaker 1 Kenyon Green from Houston. So So there's a lot of competition here.
They drafted Drew Kendall Center out of Boston College. They drafted a couple tackles late in Miles Hinton and Cameron Williams.

Speaker 1 So there's a lot of competition that stouts going to be able to work with in that room. I'm excited to see what these guys got, man.

Speaker 1 I think when you get into these later rounds, it's kind of a crapshoot.

Speaker 1 You're waiting to see everybody, once you're outside of the first round, second round, especially the third round.

Speaker 1 All these guys have some type of weakness, have something that's holding them back that's causing them to go outside of the top three routes.

Speaker 1 And you get to see what their strengths are, where they can improve at,

Speaker 1 which guys

Speaker 1 are going to pan out. And it's just, it's fun to watch these guys compete and get better, and especially watching Jeff Stoutland work with them.
I'm excited to see each and every one of them.

Speaker 1 You know it. Well, you guys also got a QB and Kyle McCord in the sixth round out of Syracuse.
I actually remember watching this dude play a little bit in the ACC.

Speaker 1 And it looks like he's a lifelong Eagles fan from up there in the New Jersey area. A little Mount Laurel.
Who's not these days? Am I right?

Speaker 1 Big fan base. Big fan base.
I saw like a locker room video of him singing a rap song. Look like he's got some swag to him, which listen, we already know.
Sounds like it's

Speaker 1 a locker room guy. Exactly.
If you're a quarterback and you got some swagger to you, you got a little Baker Mayfield to your ass or some like, you're some shit to you. That's a plus.

Speaker 1 That's a major plus. It's always a plus.
A lot of times quarterbacks are very,

Speaker 1 can kind of be beaten to their own drum.

Speaker 1 It's a position that gets pandered to a lot. And a lot of the guys that are really good in college, you know, they're sometimes,

Speaker 1 you know, not as connected to their teammates as you need to be. And I was talking to Marcus Spears during the season, and he said something that I think is just so true.

Speaker 1 If you want to be the quarterback, you want to be like one of the great ones. You got to be the guy that everybody is gravitated to, that everybody wants to talk to.

Speaker 1 You don't got to be everybody's friend, but you have to have this personality that is like magnetic and drives people. And you're a focal point of the locker room.

Speaker 1 Those are what the great ones do, right? And if you're not going to be that guy, you can have all the talent in the world.

Speaker 1 You might have success because you're on great teams, but it's going to be hard, especially when times aren't going well, to be somebody that galvanizes people to play well around you.

Speaker 1 And you're going to have to do that to be one of the best. Yeah.
This is saying, I like that he acted like he had a gun and he was doing his cool thing in the locker room.

Speaker 1 I think it shows that he's got some swag to him, you know. Pew pew, pew pew.
Biggest story out of the draft was obviously Shador Sanders sliding to the fifth round.

Speaker 1 Many people projected him to be a first-round. Some people had him like top 10 picks, right? In some of these

Speaker 1 mock drafts, he was high up there now. Well, he's selected by the Cleveland Browns or Brownies.
I love this for Cleveland. God, I love this for Cleveland.
I really do, man.

Speaker 1 The Browns fan deep down in my heart is just like, fuck yeah.

Speaker 1 You get a swag champ that works his ass off, that has something to prove now. You know, not that he didn't before, but he's got that chip on his shoulder, I'm sure, because of how much he's dropped.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How could you not? Yeah.

Speaker 1 If you're at all a self-confident person who believes in themselves and you're touted by a lot of people and you had the college career that he had, how could could you not be upset that you fell out of, fell this far?

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Still should be happy you're in the NFL, but I mean, there's a lot of quarterbacks that are taken above him. There's a quarterback that the Browns selected above him.

Speaker 1 Who was the quarterback?

Speaker 1 Dylan Gabriel was selected in the third round. A lot of anonymous reports prior to the draft that his team interviews went poorly.
What do you think, Trav? Why do you think Shador Sanders?

Speaker 1 I think whoever's the fucking anonymous person that's fucking saying this should fucking come out and say who they were. Show you what you chest.
Like, what the fuck is that about?

Speaker 1 Like, if you're going to fucking leak that type of shit, fucking be the one that says that, yeah, it just didn't go well for us. You know, don't fucking say that we're anonymous.

Speaker 1 You know, that's so fucking lame. Like, like, I don't know.
I just feel like there's no validity to it. I'm not sure why he dropped.
I'm not sure, you know.

Speaker 1 Whether it was the interviews or whether it was stuff that they saw on film. What I saw on film, I thought he was a way higher pick.
And I think that's all that should matter.

Speaker 1 And I mean, it doesn't seem like he's a terrible person. You know, it seems like he's just a motivated football player that is a part of

Speaker 1 a big football family. And him and his father have kind of taken over the NCAA football for the past three to four years.

Speaker 1 And whether that's something that NFL teams, quote-unquote, didn't want to deal with, I feel like this is going to be such a fresh start for him. And

Speaker 1 now it's going to feel,

Speaker 1 I can see him working his his ass off and becoming the starting quarterback in Cleveland at some point for sure.

Speaker 1 Personally, I think a lot of these interviews went poorly or the off-the-field antics between Dion

Speaker 1 and whatever media stuff Shador's got going on. I think all that is getting blown way out of proportion as a factor for this.

Speaker 1 I think the reality is to me, and the way I look at it, is it's hard to find a great quarterback in this league.

Speaker 1 If these teams really felt that Shador Sanders was a top first-round talent, they would have picked him. That's what I think.
I think if you, you mean to tell me if Michael Vick

Speaker 1 had these same exact off-field things happening or, you know, if Mike, if he was Michael Vick's exact talent, he wouldn't have been taken to the first round. Of course he would have.

Speaker 1 Teams said on draft day, they don't think Shador Sanders' potential warrants being drafted that high at the next level. Okay, now, for whatever reason that is, I don't know why that is.

Speaker 1 I don't even barely want Shador Sanders, but I ain't going to sit here and tell you that like there's too many players with character issues, with concerns every year coming out about criminal behavior, off-field antics, and other things that get drafted in the first round.

Speaker 1 And they get drafted in the first round because they are ballers and the NFL wants great players. The fact that he got drafted at 144 in the fifth round tells me that

Speaker 1 maybe these off-field things mattered a little bit, but the bottom line is teams just do not think the potential of Shador Sanders panning out the next level is high enough to warrant an earlier pick.

Speaker 1 And teams get this wrong all the time. They got it wrong with Brock Purdy.
They got it wrong with Tom Brady. This is not like an exact science.

Speaker 1 And I hope the guy, and I'm happy Shador Sanders is going to get an opportunity to go to Cleveland because clearly Cleveland wants to replace their starting quarterback.

Speaker 1 They picked two of them in the draft.

Speaker 1 So now you're going to get him, a competitive person, motivated to prove a bunch of motherfuckers wrong up in Cleveland, Ohio on a team that clearly wants a new quarterback.

Speaker 1 Otherwise, they wouldn't have taken Dylan Gabriel in the third round and then picked another one in the fifth.

Speaker 1 And when it comes to the potential of a player, I think, you know, it's, I think the higher up you go is you're ready now.

Speaker 1 It might not be that the potential isn't there that you will one day be ready. I think there's just more questions.
There's more questions of what's the maximum potential.

Speaker 1 Where is this player at currently? There's a ton of opportunity and potential that the kid has.

Speaker 1 And there's been tons of players that have been drafted in the later rounds who teams have questions about that end up panning out. And a lot of that comes down to the intangibles.

Speaker 1 A lot of that comes down to, you know, does he just have this it factor? Everybody, and that's what everybody's kind of waiting to see.

Speaker 1 Like, at the end of the day, he's been successful everywhere he's been. He's had throwing accuracy.
Like,

Speaker 1 none of that stuff teams can avoid accepting. But they will find all these other little things to say like, oh, you know, he doesn't have this.
He doesn't have that.

Speaker 1 There's guys like Tim Tebow had a lot of stuff in college too and he didn't pan out in the n of them like they're looking to find these little things that cause them to have concern about why you might not pan out the next level and all i'm saying is if this kid is the dog and the motivated individual he's got a lot of attributes that that lead themselves to being great at the next level yeah and he's in a situation now that you know he's going to get a chance to compete All right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Shadar.
Hit us up if you need any food recommendations out there. Cleveland, big dog.

Speaker 1 Good luck becoming the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, brother. I'm rooting for him.
I fucking hope that. I mean, talk about a great story.
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 Let's root for the guy right now.

Speaker 1 I hope he makes it and he brings all of the people that he brought to him to the meetings, to the contract that he signs after he fucking leads him to some playoff game. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, just, I hope this just happens in the biggest fuck you to everybody around there questioning that side of things. But anyway, let's fucking go.

Speaker 1 Travis Kelsey also famously famously slid from character concerns. Arguably was the best tight end on tape.

Speaker 1 So Shador, look no further.

Speaker 1 This could be you. That's

Speaker 1 Jason Kelsey, character concerns, family. The major

Speaker 1 character concerns and size concerns.

Speaker 1 What do you think about that Jason Kelsey guy? Well,

Speaker 1 he's a fucking lunatic. I've heard he's an asshole, loses his temper all the time.
And on top of that, he's too small. Oh, yeah, he ran a good 40.
Let's bring him in the sixth round. Travis Kelsey.

Speaker 1 The funny thing about Trav is that there was nothing outside of the injuries. I guess you had two things.

Speaker 1 You had had a few injuries, and then you obviously had the marijuana thing stemming from your sophomore year. But outside of that, I only remember people.

Speaker 1 Saying marijuana makes it sound so more intense.

Speaker 1 Why does that word sound so intense? And maybe it's just like... Is it just funny that do you ever stop the thing?

Speaker 1 You probably got drafted an entire round later than you should have. Maybe even, I mean, you could have the tape that you had your senior year was incredible.
So I had only had two years at tight end.

Speaker 1 Well, you really only had one year of playing fully healthy the whole year.

Speaker 1 I just think it's funny sometimes looking back and like there are all these concerns about Travis Kelsey and like everybody who ever knew you knew you were a great kid.

Speaker 1 You just had like a mess up with narrow, like weed. Sorry.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden like like teams aren't picking you for it like think about that today like even back then 75 nfl players were smoking weed what the are we talking about we're gonna like act like this is a death sentence yeah we are just blows my mind no it's crazy man everybody's all good though shout out to big red no worked out great worked out perfect i just want everybody that drops in the draft for like whatever character concerns or whatever if it ever pans out they should just do that exact same character concern like you should have just walked into signing your second deal with a blunt in your hand, smoking it as a sign of the paper.

Speaker 1 So,

Speaker 1 what do I sign this?

Speaker 1 I'm not condoning smoking weed, but unless you sign a multi-million year deal and you want to say fuck you to all the people that doubted you because you did smoke weed, I'm just signing the wrong parts of the contract.

Speaker 1 It's like, Travis, you didn't sign a single line correctly. Travis, we said sign here.
What?

Speaker 1 All right, well, either way, um, the draft is in the books. 2025 draft is officially over.
Now Now we get to see if these guys are actually any good, and it's going to be a lot of fun. All right,

Speaker 1 let's say we get out of this draft and toss it to the old Ben Affleck interview. Yep, Ben Affleck, let's go.
Come on now.

Speaker 1 This is a real good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan, real United Airlines customers.

Speaker 1 We were returning home, and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Captain Andrew. I got to sit in the driver's seat.

Speaker 1 I grew up in an aviation family, and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age. That's Andrew, a real United Pilot.
These small interactions can shape a kid's future.

Speaker 1 It felt like I was the captain. Allowing my son to see the flight deck will stick with us forever.
That's how good leads the way.

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Speaker 1 This one's been in the vault waiting for its moment.

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Speaker 4 this is fucking badass dude it's awesome man it's so it's more fun that like you can do stuff where because like stuff like this hat like people i listen to people what people care about it's really fun to like talk to somebody you know guys i admire and like and i'm like this is great it's so much more interesting and no wonder why that's the shit that people actually want to see instead of the kind of same recycled bullshit that, you know, just gets old.

Speaker 1 I hear you, man. Thank you, man.

Speaker 4 Thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys.

Speaker 1 Okay. Great honor, man.
This is incredible. We are chopping it to bed, brother.
Before we get started, I just got to let you know this is not a professional deal here.

Speaker 1 We're just going to kick it. We're just going to fucking kick it.

Speaker 4 Good, man. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Believe you. That's great.

Speaker 1 I love it. Jason, do the honors, my brother.
Our guest today is writer, director, actor, producer from Berkeley, California.

Speaker 1 He's got three times Golden Globes, two-time BAFTAs, two-time SAG Awards, and is a two-time Academy Award winner.

Speaker 1 You know him from Goodwill Hunting, Armageddon, Argo, Gone Girl, The Town, Justice League, even Dunkin' Donuts, Super Bowl commercials. That's right.
And now

Speaker 1 the accountant too. That's right.

Speaker 1 92%.

Speaker 1 Please welcome Mr. Ben Affleck.

Speaker 1 What's up?

Speaker 1 What's

Speaker 4 I didn't know how that should.

Speaker 1 Of course, man.

Speaker 4 It's good to be here, man. It's really good to be here.

Speaker 1 The first accountant, fucking amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Speaker 1 Jason, Jason, you can go ahead and tell him about

Speaker 1 how you're connected in that world and everything. But I was blown away by

Speaker 1 the messages sent, by just how cool everything came together. And you just felt how it ended that you had to do another one, right?

Speaker 4 It was just so fast. I wanted to thank, first of all, thank you very much.

Speaker 4 I really liked the first one, and uh, it kind of like it did well, and then it like built up, it kind of came out right as streaming started growing.

Speaker 4 And then over time, like, you know, more and more people watched the stuff. And so I was really excited to do another one.
I love the new version. I think it's even better than the first movie.
And

Speaker 4 I appreciate it, man. It's a lot of fucking, a lot of fun.
And it's good to be here to talk about it.

Speaker 1 Well, I know you've been told this before from the first one. And the second one is very, very similar.

Speaker 1 You do such a great job of portraying somebody on the spectrum. You can tell that you guys put so much time and effort into doing that properly,

Speaker 1 showcasing tools for how people that are on the spectrum deal with too much stimulus going on. What are different traits? How do they communicate?

Speaker 1 What is the social interaction like? The dating scene from this second movie, right off the gate. Oh, my gosh.
So good. But my wife works with kids on the spectrum.

Speaker 1 She was an instructional aid for a long time. We do a lot of stuff stuff in the autism community.
So I'd be remiss if I did not say how awesome you do

Speaker 1 and how much you guys have nailed it in both films.

Speaker 4 So well. Thank you very much, man.
I really, that's obviously the most important thing. It's like, look, this movie is fun.
It's tense. It's serious.
It's funny.

Speaker 4 But obviously it kind of starts with like when you're taking a roll-on like this and you're going to kind of talk about like.

Speaker 4 people about whom in particular there's been some like misunderstandings or judgments or whatever like the goal is to for authenticity and respect and empathy and understanding.

Speaker 4 And I did a lot of research for the first one and I got really lucky in my life in the years between because I got to develop some very close relationships with people very much like my character.

Speaker 4 And that's where I got like this people that enriched my life. And I just got to know.

Speaker 4 And then I was like, there's so much joy and humor and wry humor and wisdom and so much beauty in these folks.

Speaker 4 And it's like, it was a great, I really felt like that was the most important thing to bring that humanity up.

Speaker 4 Because yeah, sometimes if you have a more like neutral affect, people might just assume, okay, well, they're very serious or there's not, you know, there's not as much going on or they have the same feelings.

Speaker 4 And I have not found that at all to be true. It's just a slightly different way of seeing the world and approaching it.

Speaker 4 And I really wanted to bring that to this role, both because I thought, you know, it hadn't really been done in that way and because I just came to love, you you know in effect this this this character through the people that i knew so it's like that when i by the time i got into this one i was like no no no i really understand this guy now i kind of guessed and fooled around and researched before and now i have it and i wanted people to to feel it you know and uh so thank you very much and it means the world to me and it's a very interesting um experience because like like you're talking about like you know dealing with social cues like in some ways it's just a slightly more elevated version of what we all kind of experience but hide more like the wonderful things about people in the spectrum is like they're honest with you.

Speaker 4 Yeah, they shoot you straight. We all talk about how we want honesty.
Truth is, people want it if it's what they want to hear. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 They don't really want the truth, the truth.

Speaker 4 There's something wonderful about somebody who will. I'm just going to tell you the truth about it.
So don't ask something that you don't want an honest answer.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 4 And who Cava, that's like we all kind of find, like, look, you know, the whole situation, trying to date somebody and figure figure out like meet people flirt with them the kind of like cues and indications that people get like i think a lot of people have a little bit of difficulty trying to figure that out did i say the right thing did i come off stupid this is just a more kind of in plain sight version of that and what's beautiful about it is like the vulnerability guys like trying to have a connection with his brother really that's the heart of it he loves his brother but drives him crazy you know and So it's about how do I figure that out, you know?

Speaker 4 And same with the relationships. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it's awesome seeing that side of it with like the social interaction and things where a lot of times people in the spectrum kind of struggle with.

Speaker 1 But then you also see the strengths of the character and obviously the ability to like process numbers and like make connections that nobody else is going to be able to do. So it's just so well done.

Speaker 1 Have you, have you ever embodied a character as much as this? I mean, you've...

Speaker 4 I mean, not really.

Speaker 1 There's been a lot of characters.

Speaker 1 You've gathered so many. I mean, you've had so many unbelievable movies, but hearing you talk about this, it sounds like you really like, it was almost like a passion project this second time around.

Speaker 4 It was. It was a very different thing the second time around

Speaker 4 because just because of my life and what I, and the love I had developed. And I was like, so I was like dying to get going.

Speaker 4 You know, I was like, I remember the director sat down with me and he was like, someone talked. And I was like, no, no, this is what this scene's about.
No, this is how he's feeling.

Speaker 4 No, he's not mad about that. You know, and I just.
started to know kind of much more deeply about the guy.

Speaker 4 And that's like, look, as a, as an actor, you try to do as much research as you can, but you just it's like cheating almost when you have real experience with something you just bring a whole other level of of stuff to it and and that's what happened with this movie and and it was fun and also i honestly john bernthal is so genius the guy i love this guy he's a good man he's a great actor he's like good father he's just he's a guy that i really became a very close friend of my love the guy and getting to play the scenes with him and maybe that's analogous to like you know another great player on the team like when you

Speaker 4 have a super high level it just changes everything. Where you're like, oh, he already knows where I'm going to be.
He already can see what I'm doing. He's there.
And you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 It just makes you so much better. And that was a joy every day.

Speaker 1 Well, and is there, it feels like a lot of the movies you're in, there's this incorporation of brotherhood. Obviously, that's a literal brother in this movie, but I mean, Goodwill Hunting, like

Speaker 1 the town, like there's like this idea of friendship and brotherhood. That's something that it encompasses so well in a lot of the films you do.
But Bernthal's phenomenal in this one as well. Yeah.

Speaker 4 He is. He's great.
And yeah, that's a theme that's like really meaningful to me. And certainly,

Speaker 4 look, you know, when I was young, and like a lot of young guys, before you get older and have other kinds of responsibilities, you get married, that kind of thing, like you're oftentimes your male friends are your whole world, like your guys, your crew.

Speaker 4 That's a big deal. And it really means a lot to...
particularly to men and to how we kind of grow into real men and those guys that we're around shape and dictate that.

Speaker 4 I mean, I assume on a like, you know, a football team, it's even more kind of profound.

Speaker 4 And so for me, it was like, I've always been interested in these like very close male friendships and how they can be fucking, they can define us, how they can be hard when it becomes like a conflict or when part of what's going on with another guy, like, you know, is a, is a problem.

Speaker 4 But like for a lot of us, you know, particularly if you, whether or not you have like a dad who was as president or around, like that, the period of time where that's the center of your life and you're socializing yourself in that way and and so that was a big frame of reference for me and i think there's a lot there's like vulnerability in it and there's strength and it's it's a big way that oftentimes i think you know kind of men learn to to grow into who they're going to be and so it's a theme that i that i keep on coming back to it's also very you know very powerful it's like especially when you have like a group of guys like that and like when somebody will is willing to truth or bring the way that things have been going and go like no this is up like that can be i think especially especially for men, those kinds of relationships, like a hugely powerful moment.

Speaker 4 This is the kind of the things that we remember and oftentimes that like define us in my experience.

Speaker 1 You ain't lying, man. There's been so many like iconic, like

Speaker 1 right away. I don't even want to go.

Speaker 1 I hate listing like lines to guys who literally did this, but like the town, like when you go in there and you're like, I'm not telling you where or what we're going for, why we're going there.

Speaker 1 I just need you to know where it's like, deal. We're going.
We're going right now.

Speaker 1 And it's just like every, every guy that has any close friends can relate to that story where it's like dude i got my boys back no matter what is the case you don't need to explain it you don't need to tell me yes it's like we're gonna do something really hard

Speaker 4 you don't know what it is and i need your help yes

Speaker 4 okay dude who's probably gonna take it it's like dude that's the only you know and i was trying to find i remember i shot to that movie i was i was like i need really get a moment where we understand what kind of friendship he has with this guy so that when you know when when it starts to like get a lot of tension applied to it, you understand how strong it is because it's an internal thing, the bond we feel, right?

Speaker 4 The connection. And that, that was like, I found, I was like, he's got to, you know, I wanted something kind of, you know, extreme for that.

Speaker 4 So you go like, oh, these guys will follow each other anywhere. Yeah.
You know, absolutely. You're dealing with something really powerful.

Speaker 4 Like, this is the most important relationship in both of their lives.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 that was, you know, I kind of lucked into that line. It was, and it's kind of funny, you know, and extreme, but it's so damn good.

Speaker 4 It does represent, I think, something that a lot of, you know, you see it, you see it in sports, you see it in the military, you see, like, you see it represented in some way, like, hey, I'll go fight and die.

Speaker 4 Like, I remember I did a training thing for a movie with the Army for two weeks, which, by the way, is the hardest experience of my life.

Speaker 1 Two weeks is a long time training, dude.

Speaker 4 If I wasn't like so embarrassed about this boot camp, I would have quit for sure. I'd be like, I'm going to look terrible.

Speaker 1 You're ringing the bell.

Speaker 4 Yeah, totally. It was no joke, but I learned a lot of respect for it.

Speaker 4 And I remember the guys were like, one of the things these guys would say is like, you don't die for a flag, you don't die for an idea, you only die for your friend, your guy next to you.

Speaker 4 And that really stayed with me: like, oh, yeah, I get that. I get that.
That's how these bonds get shaped and how you get these like teams and units to function this way. You know, it's very powerful.

Speaker 1 We have one last question for you before we move on.

Speaker 1 Could you actually file your own taxes? Do you file your own taxes? Just

Speaker 1 go into, do you go into a glass room and just start writing on the walls or what?

Speaker 4 I mean, yeah, I could file them.

Speaker 4 I might get arrested for TXA management.

Speaker 4 I thought I could do that.

Speaker 4 I'm tempted to do that.

Speaker 4 I write a lot of things down. It's not the right answer, though.

Speaker 4 Oh, God.

Speaker 1 So good, man. Check out Accountant 2 in theaters right now, ladies and gentlemen, 92%ers.
My dog Ben Aflak fucking killed it. We got to get into this sports fandom, though, man.
Ben,

Speaker 1 does the chair you're sitting in kind of lock, like, so it doesn't swivel?

Speaker 4 Oh, you don't want me doing this type of thing we're kind of you're moving kind of in and out of frame oh because it's a third or third or third yeah let me just try to sit still like you know what i mean i can probably manage that

Speaker 4 you know instead of like lock me in the chair you know what i mean hopefully i can manage that i'll i'll try to help you out oh my gosh if that's how you handle most of your guests like can we tie him down

Speaker 4 This says a lot about what's going on. We strap this fucking guy to the chair or not.

Speaker 1 That's how you lock it in. Oh, man.
All right. Let's get to some sports fandom, man.
Boston's sports fan for life, I'm assuming, man. You've uh, and it's all the sports up there, man.

Speaker 1 You got baseball, basketball, football, hockey, all of them. Uh, Boston's been spectacular, um, especially through the 90s, 2000s.
And right now, this is a sports podcast, so let's jump into some.

Speaker 1 Uh, NFL draft will happen by the time this airs. Do you have like a favorite in this draft? Are you that in tune with like the guys coming out?

Speaker 4 I've got dialed in where I'm like, I could tell a fucking guy's combine numbers and shit. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 I just hear about like who looks good.

Speaker 4 Like, I'm not that into, especially kind of like when Tom left New England and that whole thing, I was like, I had to step back from, I was kind of like, I stopped, shit, stopped making sense to me.

Speaker 4 And I kind of didn't know who, but kind of like to start watching NFL, like more casually, I used to be more into like who we're going to get, who's the draft pick.

Speaker 4 And now I kind of find myself a little conflicted. So I can't give you certainly any great detail on the draft, though, although I bet you guys can't.

Speaker 4 I'm curious to know, like, do you think there's like more insight that you have in terms of like upcoming players?

Speaker 4 Like, do you think there really is a skill and an expertise to be in seeing how a guy will develop?

Speaker 4 Or is everybody basically just looking at the same fucking numbers, stat sheets, combined numbers and that kind of thing?

Speaker 1 There's definitely a process and some guys hit it out, they like hit home runs during the interview process.

Speaker 1 Like if you can't show the teams that you're going to be like a great teammate a great professional like you're just kind of like a guy that likes to just play football like but if you can go in there and show that you're going to be professional you're going to have a like a routine you're going to be you know how important is that really like i know you they say that all the time he's a good clubhouse guy all that stuff but like have you seen it make a real difference and does it make a difference to somebody who's looking at player and go this guy's for real you know his commitment all that stuff i think the guys that we brought in in kansas city you know have been those guys.

Speaker 1 The guys that have had immediate success and found a way to get a second contract here, those are the guys that they want. It's the build, the building.

Speaker 1 I've been here from the jump like 13 years ago before Coach Reed even got here. They didn't have that kind of chemistry and kind of like culture in the building.

Speaker 1 It kind of took like five or six years for them to bring in the guys they wanted that had that professionalism and that like enjoyment in the building coming into work every single day.

Speaker 1 And once we finally got that, it just, it's changed the trajectory of the program. And winning helps that too.
When you, the more success you have and the more wins, the more people genuinely buy in.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's one of the things that Bill and Tom did so well for so long in Wingland. Like nobody's going to come in there questioning how stuff's done when you got that type of success.

Speaker 1 So it affords you a great culture, even with guys that might not, maybe if they were at another situation, they wouldn't be the same type of guy.

Speaker 1 But I think for me, I've started to look at guys coming out more because now that I'm done, I try to help out or that's my way to kind of stay involved. I never looked at a lot of college guys.

Speaker 1 It's hard, man. It's hard to evaluate and see guys

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 tell which guys are going to be the ones that pan out.

Speaker 1 As a player, you, you, you watch it and you can't help but think of guys that they remind you of and the way they move.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 times and like the measurables, those are all parameters that you kind of take into account. Like, you know, if there's a center with less than 32-inch arms, that's a red flag.

Speaker 1 If there's a tackle with less than 34-inch arms, you're like, there's a certain like minimum amount that you want. But then after that, I like watching the tape and seeing, like, how does a guy bend?

Speaker 1 How does, what is his quickness? What, what are his moves? What is, how does the offensive lineman use his hands? And then you're trying to think of like, you know, what is coachable and correctable?

Speaker 1 There's some of guys that you watch, you can almost tell that they're smart players by the angles that they take. Like, oh, this guy gets football.
He knows where the ball's going and he's advanced.

Speaker 4 And other guys are just they look like they're running in the middle of the field like dude do you have any idea like what's happening right now like you just it's really interesting to hear you guys talk about it because it actually does remind me because i thought it was completely different and it reminds me a lot of of of directing movies actually which seems weird maybe but like like when you said hey yeah establishing some success goes a long way towards buying where like it was more difficult for me to convince people like hey come on down this road i know early on i know what i'm doing because i can see the guys kind of like fuck you, no truth.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, I fucking know what you're doing.

Speaker 4 And you might be leading me down the wrong road, you know what I mean? And kind of get us all fucked up.

Speaker 4 And I kind of, like, I noticed that as the movie come out and people like it and stuff, it was people came to me with more openness.

Speaker 4 You know, I don't know if Randy Moss would show up with the same openness that he showed up in the movie with. But you started to get towards that.

Speaker 4 And the other thing is that thing of like, I really do believe that there's a kind of a flow state with act, with sports, all that stuff. And a part of it is that thing of like, am I comfortable?

Speaker 4 Am I at ease? Do I feel like I can kind of do my thing? It kind of basically that kind of buy-in that you talked about, you know, in Kansas City about creating a culture.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 I do think that that makes a huge difference. And sometimes I see people look at me like I'm crazy if I'll say, like, you've got to have not just a great cameraman, like great dolly.

Speaker 4 You got to have an environment where all the people there are kind of filmmakers and they understand what's important.

Speaker 4 And everybody feels like they share a culture of valuing like certain things about what we're trying to do.

Speaker 4 And I guess it's interesting because I often thought those things were kind of cliches that guys said when they had to talk to the media or whatever.

Speaker 4 But to hear it articulated by two professional guys who've done it actually made a lot more sense. I'm like, oh, this is the same thing.

Speaker 4 Like you want people to share certain values, unrecognize what's important here, how we do this here.

Speaker 4 I get that. And I wonder, though, about like...

Speaker 4 with with football or you know even other sports it seems to me that part of the trick is figuring out who's going to keep growing and developing, who's going to stay kind of static.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? Have you noticed any particular attributes?

Speaker 4 That is it people who can like, who can tolerate, like, who can't tolerate failure, but can get back up when they fail and get after it again? Is it like, is resilience the principal thing?

Speaker 4 Is it just like some people are lucky and they just keep getting better? Like, have you found any common traits?

Speaker 1 I feel like you just, you, I think a lot of that is dealt with when you have great culture, great coaches in hand, because then you got somebody that they respect, the person that needs to grow as a player, they have somebody that they respect that is challenging them.

Speaker 1 Like a guy like me, I had Coach Reed since the beginning of my career sitting there just kind of hitting me on the head telling me, don't do this, don't do this, keep doing that, keep doing that. And

Speaker 1 you slowly start to find your own. professionalism inside of the culture, right?

Speaker 1 And then now you know how to add to that culture and you know how to like build that culture culture even more once you start to figure out the rights and the wrongs and what you should and shouldn't be doing.

Speaker 1 But at the same time, Coach Reed has also grown a lot since I've been there in terms of letting the players kind of be more of themselves off the field.

Speaker 1 He would have never let me fucking do this podcast at the beginning of my career.

Speaker 1 He would have told me, yeah, no, how about no? How about you just focus on football, bud?

Speaker 1 But it's definitely,

Speaker 1 I feel like a lot of that is, you have to have that drive and that love for the the game to want to keep getting better.

Speaker 1 And that goes along with guys that are coming into the building or guys in the draft.

Speaker 1 You got to see it on the field. You got to see them love to compete.
And then you have to see them love to work

Speaker 1 on their craft throughout. And that's kind of where it comes

Speaker 1 more of like a juggling match is like you only know that word of mouth. You don't really know what they're doing behind the scenes.

Speaker 4 How much of a hardcore fucking like

Speaker 4 coach

Speaker 4 do you respond to? Because I like

Speaker 4 that. Like, do you want a guy who's like, fuck, get right in your face and be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Don't you?

Speaker 4 Or do you want somebody that's giving you that like, hey, you know, you can get better here? Like, where do you think that sweet spot is for you?

Speaker 1 I can respond to either one of those. I think coaches should be genuinely who their personalities are.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're a fired up dude and you kind of motherfuck and that's kind of how you do it, and I can respond great to that.

Speaker 1 If you're like very reserved, but you're honest and articulate and you communicate really well, I can respond well to that.

Speaker 1 The big thing is, like, I want to be coached. Like, I want to be told when I'm doing things.
Like, what can I do to get better? And I think to your point of like, how do some guys improve?

Speaker 1 How do, uh, you know, some guys amaster potential? Like, Kobe Bryant came and talked to the Eagles one time.

Speaker 1 And one of the things he said was, like, one of his notes to all the young guys was be curious, keep asking questions, keep trying to get better.

Speaker 1 Like, this, there's some guys that come in with just like this insatiable appetite to become better, even though they might have downturns and they might have to like have that resiliency.

Speaker 1 And like, we've all dealt with that in our careers, and it sucks in the moment, but you realize at the end, it makes you so much better because you learn from it and you learn, like, dude, why was I using my hands that way?

Speaker 1 If I just would have done this this way, like, and now I'm doing it and it's leading to more success. And,

Speaker 1 of course, there needs to be great coaching and potential there to begin with, but that trait of like just this, this insatiable desire to like be the best version of a football player you can be is like the biggest thing to me.

Speaker 1 Um, and that's hard.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's hard to pick of guys coming out. Like, who knows? Those are those intangibles where it's like you kind of lean on coaches that you know that know them.

Speaker 1 Like there's you talk to people in the, in, in the, in the, in the, in the universities that they're at, like, hey, I know this coach there and I know he will be honest with me about this guy's temperament.

Speaker 1 But that's a, that's a tough one to gauge.

Speaker 4 That's a hard thing, too, because you're calling somebody up. They're in the spot where like like what they're going to tell you is going to dictate somebody's future.

Speaker 4 It's like, you know, been experienced where somebody calls you about a job recommendation for somebody, even if you're like, I don't know if he's, but it feels bad to say that.

Speaker 4 And like, what I used to do is like say good things about everybody because I felt bad. And then I have people come back to me, man, you told me this guy was

Speaker 4 now, oh, I know.

Speaker 4 I'm not doing you a service. You know what I mean? So you have like.
I had to learn that lesson.

Speaker 4 One of the things I see like in our line of work is the people who I really respect the most, who I think are the best, have this combination of the wanting to be great, which is a sense of like, yeah, I can be great, but also a certain humility that's like, I got to keep looking at my mistakes.

Speaker 4 Dude, you're not willing to look at your mistakes.

Speaker 1 I have said this so much.

Speaker 1 Self-eval, baby. I have said this so much.
Every great player that I know is the right amount of insecure.

Speaker 1 Like they aren't happy with like, it's not like they're not happy with who they're, but they're like, I don't like, I need to improve this. I don't like me, this version of me here.

Speaker 1 I don't know if I've ever watched the game where I'm just like, nice, I'm satisfied. I've always watched a game like, you fucking idiot.
Yeah, why didn't I just do this better? You fucking suck.

Speaker 4 That's the biggest thing is like, there's people who are cool with good enough and people who didn't make the choice. I'm like, me, it just drives me crazy.
Yeah. People are like, oh, we're good.

Speaker 4 I'm like, it's not good. You know what I mean? It's not, it just makes me feel.

Speaker 4 No, and then when you get next to somebody else who also has that kind of demand, you know, and that maybe it's coach or it's another person that you're working with, you kind of feel like, okay, this person's going to go on this ride with me.

Speaker 4 And I do think it's just some person that some people are like, I checked the box, I did what I had to do.

Speaker 4 And there's a kind of, I like in the great athletes that I've had a chance, opportunity to know, like, sometimes I feel like it's a little bit of a curse because they know, they still don't feel happy.

Speaker 4 Like they are always guys who feel like whatever it is isn't enough. And they kind of, like, they don't seem like the most comfortable, happy people to me.

Speaker 4 So I'm like, I love the idea of being great and I admire, I wish I was like, who this guy?

Speaker 1 What are you talking about? You're coming.

Speaker 4 I wish I could dig about something.

Speaker 1 Fair enough. All right.

Speaker 4 I wish I could do, though. That looks awesome, right? I feel as like anybody who watches sports, part of that's like, it'd be awesome if I could do that.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 Like, that's at the root of it. You've done something.
You know how hard it is. You see you guys doing that that level of excellence.
You really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 And for me, I've, you know, that's the thrill of it. You know, why you want to see the top level performance, why people are obsessed with winning, because it represents who the very best are.

Speaker 4 And I think that goes to the root of our like evolutionary nature. Like, I'm going to go hunt for your food.

Speaker 4 You want to go, you know, like, you're going to find the best hunter because that's survival. You know, that's right next to that person.
Your team is your tribe. It's your village.

Speaker 4 You know, it's a... It's tied to whether you live or die.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And the great ones, they're like unhappy with where they're at or a little bit insecure with where they're at, but they also have the confidence that they can achieve it.

Speaker 1 You You know what I mean? Like, there's this level of like, if you think you suck, but you don't think you have the confidence to get there, you're never going to make it.

Speaker 1 And if you think you're great, but you don't really know where you're at, you're going to get your ass kicked eventually.

Speaker 4 Exactly. Like, I'm a genius.
I'm nothing to lie.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 4 But also, we just don't go to snow. I was like, okay, it's like, I don't know if you guys drive a motorcycle, but I was doing this like motorcycle school.
They taught me this thing about

Speaker 1 you sitting back on the harley or what dude

Speaker 4 mostly like race bikes you know what i mean like oh yeah okay and it teaches you like as you're in a turn you have to look through the turn in other words you can't look at what's in front of you you have to look where you're where you're gonna go and if you if you actually the way guys get into accidents a lot of time is they get into a turn it's steeper than they thought you get scared you're gonna hit the wall so you look at the wall and then you do hit you know what i'm saying so to have that confidence to like look all the way through even when you get halfway there and you're like they're like the bike can do more than you think it can trust it and look all the way through it there's always that moment like you say of like I believe I can get there even if it's really hard you know what I mean absolutely that is I think a key part of it and you probably experience or develop that belief because you've you have to have done it a few times oh I can get better oh i can and maybe that's rooted in talent or whatever but there's definitely that those i i find it fascinating those kind of intangibles and and i think there's you know you've got to ask the guys who are great themselves because I think those are the people who really understand.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, speaking of the great ones, getting back to some of this Boston fandom, baby, the Celtics are,

Speaker 1 you know, defending their title. Obviously, Boston sports everywhere is amazing.

Speaker 1 It has been amazing. Who's your favorite athlete, Boston athlete of all time?

Speaker 4 Of all time? Of all time. It's hard, man.
Like, I get, you know, Brady is definitely,

Speaker 4 he'd have to be, I don't know how you do a list that he's not at the top of, but also when i was younger you know when i was a kid like that's when you're like i mean you i was live or die oh yeah hell yeah you know crying if they lost the game and that was like larry bird larry legend

Speaker 4 and my son's always like larry birds suck what are you talking about

Speaker 1 listen i'm i'm

Speaker 1 turning on some film back in like all these all the hey day these old guys are looking at what the new basketball looks like i'm like i don't know a son of them could play larry could play Larry could easily have made the transition into today's basketball.

Speaker 4 For Boston, that was such a big deal because they were, it's like this basically, like a small town with a kind of a small town mindset.

Speaker 4 And for the Celtics to be, and that's, you know, going back obviously to like Bill Russell days and all that, like the Celtics were the

Speaker 4 Boston's original entrance into like the national conversation. That, you know what I mean? The Red Sox always lost.
The Patriots were fucking terrible.

Speaker 4 My father, like, basically was a football bookie at a bar and was used to come up my first VCR washing machine he was like

Speaker 1 two pocket you know

Speaker 4 worked on quarterback in the nfl and we put a bet on new england and he's that was a definitely

Speaker 4 like when i grew up they blacked the games out on tv yeah because to get up to get people to go to the stadium yep yeah they were like fuck you can't watch it on tv if you don't go down there so you couldn't even watch the games it was that like it was a grind of an era for football you know um but it was but but so though that's the era that i really you know when all these like childhood sports memories were kind of formed and and i love those celtics but i also love that like you know that the that celtics team that came out and won the the championship out here and obviously tateman's team incredible

Speaker 4 you know well red sox 04 that was a big big

Speaker 4 one you know what i mean and and that was huge

Speaker 4 especially after 03 they got they got they lost to new york and the playoffs and it was humiliating and uh and that was a great team and that was right at the time where i was still young enough i was like going out i knew some of those guys you know i hung out with them a little bit Show experience of being like, oh, this is what's really going on.

Speaker 1 Big Poppy. He's like, yeah.

Speaker 1 Big Euclid.

Speaker 1 There you go. Euclid.

Speaker 4 Yeah, Kevin Euclid. Yeah, yeah.
And they were great guys. And so it was like, oh, I know some of these guys.
You know, it was always at a distance. And it's a great sports town.

Speaker 4 I mean, it's probably tough to play in because they'll, you know, they turn on you in a minute. There's always somebody, you know, complaining about a game if they lost.

Speaker 4 But I feel like the guys that really want to play and win are like, okay, hold me to that standard. That's the standard I hold myself to.

Speaker 4 At least that's what I tell myself. I don't know.

Speaker 1 All right. There we go.
Boston, do they live and die by the Celtics? Like, what's their biggest fandom of all the major sports?

Speaker 1 If you can get one championship for one organization, but the next three don't win for a decade, which one are you going? Damn, that's a good one. Or which one would make Boston the happiest?

Speaker 4 That's tough. I mean, it's different.
It's interesting because there are fans, first of all, since the Patriots became so successful, they became like more than what Dallas was in the 90s.

Speaker 4 Like, oh, they win and they are killing teams. It was like, it got a little spoiled.
Because the thing that I thought built character about New England was that it felt like they always lost.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean? So if you were a fan, you were a real fan because

Speaker 4 they'd have these heartbreaking losses. And you had like a few teams.

Speaker 1 Like growing up a Browns fan.

Speaker 4 Real scrappy fucking teams like Bobby Ward. You know,

Speaker 1 Bobby Wood, baby.

Speaker 4 And it was like, that was back when they played, you know, hockey hockey with no helmets and just fought half the game, like slap shots.

Speaker 1 Missing all their teeth.

Speaker 1 Exactly. The fucking best.

Speaker 4 And so there's different parts of the city and the state and stuff that kind of go towards different

Speaker 4 that like hockey fans are kind of a certain sort of group.

Speaker 4 And then football is kind of, I mean, the Red Sox were the original one, but I definitely, what's happened now, I think, in the last, in my lifetime, is that for better or for worse, I mean, I think this is true.

Speaker 4 I don't want to like, you know, but baseball is not the national pastime anymore, except the NFL. Like that has displaced it.

Speaker 4 Right now, I mean, you could don't have to look any further than the football team. Like, what do the teams sell for? What are the TV? The TV rights, the NFL, and now everything.

Speaker 4 If you're a television network and you don't have the NFL, you don't even really have a teacher

Speaker 4 because you have no reason to watch. you know, your like appointment fucking television.

Speaker 4 That's why they're spending all this money on, and yeah, the college college basketball and football contracts and stuff. Like sports have become more important in a way.

Speaker 4 And I think football, the NFL is, I think, without question, like America's sport. And it's, and it, and that basketball is huge, too.
I mean, it is really like the NBA.

Speaker 1 We were trying to tell LeBron this during the Christmas games. We were like, the NFL fucking took that shit over.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 4 You know why, though? Because they have 82 games.

Speaker 1 That's a big thing.

Speaker 4 That's the other thing. It's like it becomes baseball, 162 games.

Speaker 1 It was the first time we had played on Christmas, so everybody was kind of excited to watch the nfl on christmas no but i think you're right i mean the the nba uh nhl major league baseball they all came up when the the way to make money was having more games because you increased ticket sales and now all the money is who's tuning in and if you want people to tune in you could sell no tickets to nfl if that makes this you know it's not meaningful because now baseball teams you talk about like a lot of these baseball teams in local markets like even like Kansas City, you know, their rights that they're selling their games to the television networks has shrunk to like pretty surprisingly low numbers.

Speaker 4 So they're making all their money at the gate. That's it.
That's that, I think, you know, it's part of it's because the fan base is growing older for baseball.

Speaker 4 And football and basketball, you know, really attract new and younger fans. And I think they've displaced it.
And I think New England's no different. I think the Patriots probably became...

Speaker 4 certainly with you know Tom and Bill and that team they they were the the dominant uh sports and the Red Sox right there because they won the World Series in 407 and stuff but

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 4 I think basketball, I think basketball is probably like a very close second.

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Speaker 1 At Raising Canes, we're hyper-focused on being the best at what we do and getting it right every time.

Speaker 1 Hook to order chicken fingers, cane sauce, crinkle-cut fries, coleslaw, Texas toast, iced tea and lemonade. It's our one love.
But is the hype real?

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Speaker 1 All right. Well, we're going to get to this.
We got an ask section we're going to do here. We just kind of rapid-fire questions at you.

Speaker 4 Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 You are not, I mean, you can, you don't have to answer. You can tell us the fuck off.
We kind of appreciate it.

Speaker 1 you famously refused to wear a Yankees hat in the movie gone girl is this still something that you refuse to do on screen like will you

Speaker 4 what is it gonna take to get you I would have I would not be interested in doing that like

Speaker 4 you know what I mean like I love it I mean also to be fair I was I was explaining to David like it just it's gonna become like he's a big football fan he's not as tuned into baseball right it's obsessed with football and Madden and like the dude's the greatest Madden player David Fincher that I've ever seen which is fucking weird to me but But I was like, okay, I guess he's great at everything.

Speaker 1 That's amazing.

Speaker 4 I was like, it's going to be a distraction that you don't want. Like a stupid side story of wearing a Yankees hat.
Trust me. And he was, he kind of, I think he was kind of fucking with me.

Speaker 1 Man, that's fucking hilarious. Well, all right.
Well, if you were to wear maybe a Chiefs or Eagles hat, which one would you wear?

Speaker 4 Don't put me in the spot like that.

Speaker 4 I will say,

Speaker 4 I have to say because Billy Goldberg upstairs is who is my editor that I've along with Chris Ross that I've worked with my whole career and is probably responsible for a large part of my career is the biggest Philadelphia fan yeah baby

Speaker 4 does not

Speaker 4 be a Philly football game it's I have to say Philly has the at least Boston like it's for me Philly has like the the intense fucking tradition where I'm like and like Bradley Cooper is a friend of mine loves to Philly so I'm like I'd have to go with the with the Phillies on that hell yeah go birds go birds baby also the Philly fans will kick your ass if you don't wear it you know what I mean in Kansas City they're like oh, that's cool.

Speaker 4 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 You got to kind of stick together. They're way out there in the middle of the country.
Like,

Speaker 1 have some good time. They want to see some intensity.

Speaker 4 They're like, oh, polite and Midwestern and shit. They'll be nice to you.
Philly doesn't fucking chain stomp you.

Speaker 1 Oh, gosh. We heard that you once got to run routes with Tom Brady.
All right. What was it like? What was that like? How many completions did we get? What were you running?

Speaker 1 What kind of routes were you running?

Speaker 4 I won't lie to you. I don't know if they have a name.

Speaker 4 I'm sure I disgraced every receiver that's ever run a route. But to this day,

Speaker 4 aside from the birth of my children, that was the greatest ever.

Speaker 4 I was like, dude, are you? He was like, I need someone to play catch with. Happened to be on vacation at the same place with him.
And he was like, you want to come down?

Speaker 1 And I was like, oh, this was. So this was legit.
This was as legit as it gets. That's

Speaker 1 helping Tom get ready for the season.

Speaker 4 I don't know how much I was helping him. I think it was like, he was like, I'm going to fucking blow this dude's name.

Speaker 4 Work. And we literally got down there.
And first he's like, you know, I'm going to, he's like, okay, go out here, turn around, turn around.

Speaker 4 And I'm like, Lord, run as fast as I can. Turn around.
I fixed it. Look at him look.
He's been waiting 45 minutes. You know, he fucking guns the ball.

Speaker 4 I'm like, I caught it because I was afraid of breaking my nose more than anything else. And then after a few of those, he's like, all right, we'll put some hair on it.

Speaker 4 I was like, like, No, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 It's already playing fast.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That was what I was about to ask you. That's what I was about to ask you.
Did he actually spin it? Like, he ripped you a couple?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 4 You know what I found was that, like, in a way, you catch it out of self-defense. I didn't even think I was too.

Speaker 4 I was wet, you know, and I found myself with the football just out of like, yes, fighter reflexes.

Speaker 4 But the greatest moment of that experience was he was like, after we played, you know, he had me running around. I'm, you know, he throw me the ball and it was amazing, right?

Speaker 4 It was like a like i felt like a 10 year old kid he's like okay come here and i get to him and he's like it's the super bowl fourth quarter we have 23 seconds it's fourth and 18. i love this

Speaker 1 he's like just run dude this is this is why he's the best this is why he's the best this is the mindset dude it was amazing dude

Speaker 4 He goes, and just run straight. Don't turn around.
And I was like, he's like, I'm going to get you the ball in the end zone. I was like, don't turn around.
He was like, don't look back. So I am like,

Speaker 4 and I believed it. He told me, I was like, I'm in the Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 Nobody wants to speak with it. So he's like, look, look, calls it out.

Speaker 4 And I start running. I don't look back.
I'm sure to him, it seemed like this. He's like, I've never seen somebody run in slow motion.

Speaker 1 To me,

Speaker 4 I was.

Speaker 4 Fast as you can go. And I could keep it.
I'm like wondering when's this ball going to show up? And I look, I just feel it like right out in front of me. And it was a little far for me.

Speaker 4 I think he was like, he probably adjusted back.

Speaker 4 And I reach out and I have to go off extend. I fucking catch the ball.

Speaker 4 Turn around like I won the fucking team.

Speaker 4 He's running at me like that.

Speaker 4 It was incredible.

Speaker 1 I called everybody I knew.

Speaker 4 For two days, I was on the

Speaker 4 way to call me. And I went down to God's business.

Speaker 4 I think they thought I was lying to to him, so they got, but it was like the nicest thing anyone's ever done for me, and I lived a full life of dreams, right, in that whatever it was, hour of playing cash.

Speaker 1 You had a real life sandlobot, you had a real-life sandlot over. You were small, dude.

Speaker 1 Put that glove over there.

Speaker 4 All right, I'm gonna get it to you in the end zone. I mean, and it's like when you look at it, it felt like this is exactly what he looks like when it really is.

Speaker 4 Well, you know what what I mean? Like, and he's one of those guys going back to that thing. I was like, I've often wondered, because he seems so relaxed, like oddly relaxed.

Speaker 4 I've often wondered if that's part of it.

Speaker 4 Like, just not, you know, when everyone else has that anxiety, because it's, you know, whatever, 20 seconds to go in the fourth quarter, if you can have that, like, calm and awareness.

Speaker 4 I think it's a huge, huge advantage. There's a story, I don't know if it's true, about Joe Montana, that the Super Bowl, he threw the cash to White Clark.

Speaker 4 And the play before before that, he got into the huddle and he was looking into the stands. And they, and the team came back, and they were like, What? And he goes, Hey, look over there.

Speaker 4 Is that John Candy?

Speaker 4 And there's a car to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 4 And they just like turn back around, but he was like looking over and be like, oh shit, that's John Candy. All right, fuck it, let's go.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, he was just casual.

Speaker 4 And I feel like that always made sense.

Speaker 1 If you've ever met Joe Montana, that's a smooth son of a buck right there. He's a cool cat man.
He's he's a laid-back dude.

Speaker 4 I believe it.

Speaker 1 Are you sick and tired of having to look at Matt Damon's abs?

Speaker 4 Damn, every, I just did that, went to the premiere. Every interviewer, like, they were giving me something like that they found the secret of life.
They're like, whips out an 8x10 on Matt with his ab.

Speaker 4 It's like, this dude is

Speaker 4 out there. One time he got in shape.
And the whole world

Speaker 4 worked out one time. He's out there flexing his nuts off with his app, you know.
But, you know, listen, it looks good. It ain't easy.

Speaker 1 easy we just touch 50 but you boys will see i hear you man he's calling everybody tell him where he's going i'm gonna be on this beach this time he's like meets

Speaker 4 i'm about to have a big man

Speaker 1 so good dude you guys you guys lived together in boston your first year or growing up i should say i say first year but growing up we were friends in the same box we lived together in la we've been friends since we're little kids yeah dude that's so cool me and me and jason uh we're living together at cincinnati and obviously, we grew up together.

Speaker 1 I know what it's like to hang out with your homies and be in the same houses.

Speaker 1 How fucking cool. Were you guys just fucking throwing cool ass ideas back and forth to each other?

Speaker 4 I don't know how cool they were.

Speaker 4 We weren't just fucking dumb enough to think it would work out for us.

Speaker 4 You know, that's that kind of like belief that like, yeah, that's part of the gift of being young is you don't really see that like this could end bad.

Speaker 4 No one hires.

Speaker 4 Like we it might not work. We always kind of had a certain like, hey, we go out there.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 It was a combination of not knowing anyone who had done it or it seemed very far away and also going like, yeah, fuck it.

Speaker 4 We're going to move out to LA and this, we're going to try this thing and we're going to go after it. But

Speaker 4 I'm curious because for me, I found that I see a lot of other people who've had success and, you know, the kind of sort of light turns on you and all of a sudden it's a very different experience day to day and people act different and shit is weird, especially like I, you know, when people, this that first at the beginning of that transition, and I really credit, you know, my ability to kind of stay sane to having like my best friend who was doing it too and being able to be like, is this fucking bananas or what, man?

Speaker 4 Like this is just crazy. And someone's going to be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, why are you acting like that?

Speaker 4 Or whatever it is, you know, because other people want to, might want to kiss your ass or whatever it is.

Speaker 4 I wonder if you had the same thing, you guys, like, you know, NFL guys, and you're like, but, you know, you're not the only one in your town that, you know, that that's that one kid who becomes a big star and everyone, you know, like you had each other.

Speaker 4 Did that, yeah, was that?

Speaker 1 I was lucky I just got to follow this guy's footsteps. I was just doing whatever the fuck he did.
And I was benefiting from the guy already paving the way for me.

Speaker 1 But it was definitely cool once we got to the league, how we could bounce things off of each other, especially because we were in two different cities, two different buildings.

Speaker 1 And it's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 We also had Coach Reed.

Speaker 1 He got drafted by Coach Reed in Philly and then I did in kansas city so it was really me just like confirming that what i was doing was the right thing to do to jason jason was kind of just you know figuring it out as he went did you think that because he did it made it easier for you because you were like oh if my brother can do it 1000 jason came in and was like one of the most professional guys in philly i've heard the stories through everybody in that building because half of them came to kansas city and they were like man if you just lock in and do what your brother did, you'll be just fine.

Speaker 4 I think that's a big deal, man. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 Guys are fucking.

Speaker 1 You just got to follow his footsteps. Stop.
All right. But I really do think you're onto something with like you and Matt going through it together.

Speaker 1 And like Travis and I, like, you know, as you know, as you have more success, there's more people that come around you that don't really know you and they just want to like tell you how great you are or whatever.

Speaker 4 Because you represent like a job or some status to somebody or whatever it is. So they're going to tune into that because they want it, you know?

Speaker 1 Or they see you on camera or they see Travis and I doing this or on

Speaker 1 TV and they think they know us.

Speaker 1 But like to have these relationships that predate all of that other stuff is like, it's hard to like replicate that with like whether it's friends, family members, and you end up really holding on to those and they end up meaning a lot more.

Speaker 1 And it helps you kind of keep your sense of self for sure, undoubtedly.

Speaker 4 Absolutely, man. It's that is true words were never spoken.

Speaker 4 Like it's very hard to have the same quality of relationship in a way with somebody and trust like because it's a big difference like the people that i grew up with who were their relationship i know those relationships were based on me and that person they didn't have to do with anything else and that's never a thing that you can take for granted after that point which isn't to say i think everybody's trying to but it changes things and and part of it maybe it makes us wonder more like okay why does this person you know want to be like i remember i had the best thing that ever happened to me was i got successful and then then I hit a really

Speaker 4 like bad patch. Like I had a bunch of movies that didn't work.
I was in a bunch of tablets and I was like, it was, I was, I thought, okay, this may be over for me.

Speaker 4 And what happened was a lot of that shit went away. And I was like, oh, I'm not that funny.

Speaker 4 I don't have that many friends, actually. Like, you know, it was a whole, I used to say this, something like this, and people would laugh.
Like, the world changed. And I could feel I didn't.

Speaker 4 represent the same thing to people. And I recalibrated and was like, okay, I get it.
These relationships are largely largely what they are.

Speaker 4 You know, they're not really authentically based on the, you know, me and this person. And that's okay.
You don't need that many friends. You just need a few really good friends.

Speaker 4 And not every relationship is going to be really authentic, close friendships. Some things are just like work relationships or whatever it may be.

Speaker 4 That helped me kind of get it. You know, and it was a really, it was just a really helpful moment.

Speaker 4 And I think sometimes people, like in sports, you look at, you tend to have this, this career trajectory, like, come in, it goes great, everything's amazing.

Speaker 4 And like the last couple of years, okay, all right, now I'm gonna retire.

Speaker 4 And then, after that, like, some guys I come across, you know, more, maybe you could tell me if it's true or not, like, have a hard time adjusting after that because they're like, wait a second, you know, this life is so different now.

Speaker 1 A hundred percent that's legit. A lot of guys, you got to try and find a uh

Speaker 1 a career after sports while you're still doing it, man. But speaking of work relationships, we got some

Speaker 1 donuts here, man. God, dude, that's

Speaker 1 the Super Bowl commercial was fucking legendary, dude. Yes.

Speaker 4 Thanks, dude. So good.

Speaker 1 That thick-ass Boston accent. That shit was fucking gold.

Speaker 1 If I go to Duncan and say, I want the Affleck, what's the order?

Speaker 4 Get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 4 No, my order is the iced coffee and a lot. I like the chocolate glazed donut, but

Speaker 4 I don't think they've memorialized it as my order. You know what I mean?

Speaker 4 But it was fun.

Speaker 4 It was like the nice thing about that with Duncan was like, they let us and we our our company our secretary became the ad agency and started building this commercial stuff and now we kind of broadened it out to a couple of other brands as well and we they kind of were like okay you know because my belief is like you want to get the connection with whatever the culture or the person is like and this is in theory not having to do with me like but let them have a voice in what they're creating so like let them participate so you know when we had like ice spice or kristen wig or or tom great like i wouldn't come at them with script and lines and was like, you know what your fans want, you know what people connect to about you.

Speaker 4 Like, bring that to this thing. And people are so much more comfortable and better because they like, you know, lock people into some stupid line and posing with the product.

Speaker 4 And it just, and now people know that shit is just artificial and it doesn't work. You know, so I could not agree more.
That's awesome, man. Excuse for them letting us fuck around and act stupid.

Speaker 1 No, but you're right. It comes across so much more authentic.

Speaker 1 And like, even like, you know, when we've done advertisements, when, when you, as the person behind it and the face a part of it, when you're actually contributing to like what the thing ends up being, it feels more real to you.

Speaker 1 So, of course, it's going to feel more real to the people watching it. So, that makes a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 It's your taste. Like, that's in for athletes, whatever it is, like your persona, yourself, like, that's the thing that that means something to people.
They're connecting to you in that way.

Speaker 4 And, like, you kind of want to be like, if you're not consistent with it, because brand is trying to foist something on you, people vibe it.

Speaker 4 They're like, that's not why I like this, this guy or this woman. I don't, you know what I mean? And so it, it doesn't even work.
But it's fun when you get it right and you have to get some hell yeah.

Speaker 1 Fuck yeah. Well, it fucking killed it.
And I'm not gonna lie, I'm fucking smacking some munchkins every time. They got those new blueberry ones.

Speaker 1 They're doing blueberries.

Speaker 1 I didn't even know that. I was thinking they're a fucking game changer.
Kylie had a box of them. Kylie had a box of them the other week.
And I was like, you know what? I've been on this diet.

Speaker 1 I've been trying to slim down, but I couldn't resist. I reached that.
I was like, I took a bite. I was like, they make you feel good about eating.
I took a bite.

Speaker 1 I didn't even know that blueberry existed. I was like, what the fuck is this?

Speaker 4 I decided by the first one the other day, and I I was like, damn, this is fucking good. I thought I knew all the shit.

Speaker 1 They got that shit figured out.

Speaker 4 New discovery.

Speaker 1 They'll probably be like, it's been there for years, and I'm just a dumbass that hasn't had it. But anyway, exactly.

Speaker 4 Exactly, me too. They're like, well, look, you make commercials for them.
You didn't know.

Speaker 1 Didn't know about the blue.

Speaker 1 Hey, Ben, thank you so much for joining us, man. This has been awesome.

Speaker 1 I know you got stuff to do.

Speaker 4 It's a pleasure, man. I'm such a big fan.
You guys are the best. And

Speaker 4 it's really a pleasure. And honor, so much fun.
Like, I can't tell how much I'd rather be hanging out and talking with you guys than kind of just doing the same old thing. This is great.

Speaker 1 Dude, awesome, man. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Let's do it again when you have another one that's hitting. We got so many more questions.
We don't even have to do it on camera.

Speaker 4 It was your pleasure. Just chopping it up with you, man.
I'll get better answers off coming.

Speaker 1 Awesome. You're the mad dog.
Ladies and gentlemen, Ben Affleck.

Speaker 4 Thank you, fellas.

Speaker 4 Thank you. I'm out.
Later.

Speaker 1 Ben Affleck, dude. What a legend, man.
You ain't lying. I mean, I've always been a fan of him as an actor, but then you get to talk to the guy.
You get to see how driven he is.

Speaker 1 You can tell just talking to him how much he cares about just everything he does, how much he's always trying to figure out how other people have success. It was just an all-time combo.

Speaker 1 And his mind works so much faster than mine. Yeah.
His neurons are fucking

Speaker 1 connecting. They're firing quick.

Speaker 1 Dude, he's a special human being, man. That show is awesome.
Make sure you go check out Count 2. It's a pretty damn good movie.
You'll enjoy it. Yes, you will.

Speaker 1 All right, now let's get out of the house. Man, we haven't hit this segment in a while because Jason just had his fourth child.
That's the first time

Speaker 1 he got out of the house in a long time. This is all true.
Jason, how was it? What'd you do?

Speaker 1 Travis, I was with you. What are you talking about? We both went to.
Oh, we're talking about that. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, we headed over to one of my favorite golf tournaments of all time at the Justin Timberlake 8 a.m. Golf Tournament in Viva, Las Vegas,

Speaker 1 where I just can't seem to lose. I just never lose in Vegas, man.
There's something about Las Vegas. It's just, you know,

Speaker 1 it's kind of where I feel at home.

Speaker 1 It's been good to you, especially at the wind, especially at the wind. More so at the wind than anywhere else.
And oh my gosh, look at those jugs.

Speaker 1 You gotta show that.

Speaker 1 Wow. I didn't know.

Speaker 1 I didn't know that's what it looked like.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 It's a

Speaker 1 solid seek up.

Speaker 1 D's, maybe.

Speaker 1 Those are my nipples? Were my nipples hard? Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Why are my nipples hard? Dude. Oh,

Speaker 1 my goodness.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh. Dude, those are your nips.
In fairness, I think it it was a little cold. Those are just the thermostats working.
It was a little breezy that day. That's why Santino's got the sweater on.

Speaker 1 Dude, you might need to go get some tit reduction, dude. No, no, no.
I'm a fan of them. I've always.

Speaker 1 Oh, man, dude, that is hilarious. That's aggressive.
Oh, it is. God, damn, that's just maybe my day.
What was your favorite part of the weekend, Jason? My favorite part of the weekend? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, getting to hang out with my brother, a bunch of awesome people. No, it was a fun event.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, you're at the win in Las Vegas at like this unbelievable golf course playing with a bunch of the coolest people on the planet. It was freaking awesome.

Speaker 1 And, you know, we got to meet Justin Timberlake,

Speaker 1 a million other people that were there to all

Speaker 1 be together and have a good time. And it was just, it was done right.
I always love going to these golf outings. We're 8 a.m.
in particular for this outing.

Speaker 1 The people at the Tahoe outing, they just do such a great job at organizing it, getting everything set up. Oh, yeah.
It was just really well run, combined with great people. So, yeah, I had a blast.

Speaker 1 Dude, so much fun. You got thrown into a group with

Speaker 1 two of my favorite human beings on the face of this earth, Taylor Parsons and Blake Griffin. And I was with another one of my favorite people on this earth, Andrew Santino.

Speaker 1 And I'm not going to lie, man, Santino was, he is a stick. He's good.
I haven't seen him play this good

Speaker 1 in a while, while, man.

Speaker 1 There was a few shots where he was just absolutely dialed in. He was sinking putts.
It's fun to watch. Dude, he was sinking putts.
I was not sinking putts. Me, Blake, and Chandler had great vibes.

Speaker 1 I was really struggling. My first putt, I think, was like a 10-foot putt that I putt legitimately five feet.
To the point that everyone audibly laughed behind me.

Speaker 1 Like somebody legitimately said, that can't be serious. It was like

Speaker 1 it was straight from Happy Gilmore. Like, I hit it, and I was like, oh no,

Speaker 1 that thing is going nowhere. And it doesn't help it out that you have that putter.
What are you talking about? It's a Scotty Cameron freaking. It's a like it's the best putter on the planet.

Speaker 1 I'm not trying to hear this. That putter is from the beginning of golf.
Okay. That's how you know it's good.
It's made, it's survived for a very long time. It's a great putter.

Speaker 1 Survived? Why?

Speaker 1 Just because nobody lost it? No, people have been playing it, and it's a putter that's stood the test of time. It's classic.
Yeah, it'll only get you halfway to the hole, though.

Speaker 1 Well, that's if you're a Jamoke like myself and you haven't ever, you didn't practice any putts before, though. You hire out.
There you go.

Speaker 1 One of my favorite experiences from the weekend is always the karaoke night. They always do a great job of getting everybody to go up on stage and sing a great tune.
And

Speaker 1 we all know your karaoke song. yeah we didn't execute it as well as i thought we were going to

Speaker 1 turn around

Speaker 1 never now and then i feel

Speaker 1 turn around it was tough on stage hearing the audio and the words weren't synced up as perfectly as i thought this is after also after a full day of uh Garage beer on the course.

Speaker 1 So it was not the best performance.

Speaker 1 It did A for effort and entertainment value. Listen, the first like, probably like 10 to 15, maybe even 20 seconds, was you guys were for the most entertaining crew up there.

Speaker 1 And then out of nowhere, it was just like a scream off

Speaker 1 of you and

Speaker 1 the other two. Just yeah, absolutely trying to like get the wheels back on the track.
We tried.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Ali. That was fun.
Absolutely hilarious. Shout out to JT.
Shout out to Jessica.

Speaker 1 Shout out to everybody over at 8 a.m. And the wind.
It's one of my favorites, if not my favorite, casino out there, man. They always do it right

Speaker 1 and hook it up during the 8 a.m. And

Speaker 1 that's one of my favorite golf courses out there. Let's get on to one of our favorite segments each week, and that is No Dumb Questions.
No dumb questions is brought to you by Perplexity.

Speaker 1 For those of you that don't know, that is an AI search engine we will use occasionally to help us answer some of these no-dumb questions or questions that arise from the no-dumb questions or any type of questions we have during the show.

Speaker 1 The entire internet has been debating a no-dem question, and we have been asked to weigh in. From at BDFGHK LNPQVWXY.

Speaker 1 This is a bot

Speaker 1 at Brandon Borders at Jake Chatsky. I'm going to need Jason Kelsey and Travis's opinion on this.

Speaker 1 He quote tweeted, I think 100 guys could beat one gorilla. Everybody just got to be dedicated to the shit.

Speaker 1 Shout out to Dream Chase and Mike. We got to answer some questions first.
Are we allowed to use tools? Because I could beat a gorilla by myself. I got the biggest gun.

Speaker 1 Be over real quick, right? So I think we're talking about hand-to-hand combat, I'm guessing. Yeah, I think we're just talking hand-to-hand.
Exactly. Gorilla, don't scare me if I got a big ass

Speaker 1 magnum fucking whatever. But what are we talking here?

Speaker 1 Exactly. Do we

Speaker 1 do we are we talking like what's a win? Is a win like death? Yeah, you're fighting to the death. That's what a win is when you're fighting a gorilla.
How do you how do you kill it?

Speaker 1 That's what I'm saying. That's my thing.
Kill a gorilla. You're gonna need a tool.
You can't kill a gorilla with your hands. No, yeah.
I don't know. Do you choke it out?

Speaker 1 I mean, it's gonna be yeah, that's gonna be a tough sell right there. I think 100 guys could do it because the gorilla would get tired.
But he's gonna go through about 98 of them.

Speaker 1 He's gonna go.

Speaker 1 Somebody's getting fucked up. Yeah.
And I don't know if I want to, that's why he's saying, I think 100 guys would be one gorilla. Everybody just got to be dedicated to the shit.

Speaker 1 The shit is, you're going to get fucked up if you're one of the first people to go at this gorilla. I think one of the reasons these questions are terrible is because humans don't fight hand to hand.

Speaker 1 Even, I mean, you go back to looking at, you know, people back in the day, everybody's using the tools. I'm going to pick up a big ass rock.
I'm not going to go fight this gorilla with my hands.

Speaker 1 I'm going to let you distract him. I'm going to stand in the tree.
And then when he's not looking, I'm going to drop a boulder on his head. We're not fighting fair.

Speaker 1 That's why human beings fight, right? If you're smart, if you want to survive. That's how, now that's dedicated to the shits.

Speaker 1 I'm going to sharpen a stick and then poke that big motherfucker and not have to go and fight it with my hands. In which case, it's going to be a lot less than 100 guys.

Speaker 1 Might be one guy if you got the right tool. But yeah, if you try and go fight a gorilla with your bare hands, you will die.
I'm not fucking with that. Yeah, I mean, it's too strong.
It's too powerful.

Speaker 1 I don't even know how you would kill it. How would you kill a gorilla? Dude,

Speaker 1 what?

Speaker 1 I don't know. No,

Speaker 1 you're not choking it out. You like try and hold it down.

Speaker 1 I just would like

Speaker 1 20 people jump on it just to hold pin it down.

Speaker 1 But even then, I don't think that's going to work.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I think they're 20 strong.
They're 20 times stronger than us. That's why it's a dumb question.
All righty, that's no dumb questions brought to you by Perplexity.

Speaker 1 That wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you to Ben Affleck for joining us.

Speaker 1 Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube to the New Heights channel and follow New Heights on the Wondery app or wherever you podcast. Special announcement.

Speaker 1 We will be back next week with a special Mother's Day episode. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I wonder who's going to be

Speaker 1 a part of that one. It's going to be Mommy.
God damn it. Once again, New Heights a Wonder Show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment and brought to you by Duncan.

Speaker 1 Ooh, these little munchkins. Where to put them?

Speaker 1 Follow the show on all social media at New High Show for

Speaker 1 with OneS for fun clips throughout the week. And thanks to our production and crew, you guys are going to have your hands full this time.
To the 92%ers, please keep tuning in.

Speaker 1 We'll get good at this one day.

Speaker 1 When I'm confused about a name, I just try to go as fast as possible. I think everybody in their right mind says FLAC.
Jake, put a poll up. Put a poll up.

Speaker 1 Jake, just take it to the audience. Put a poll up.
I've never heard one person in ordinary conversation up for you. How often does that? Not often, not often, but it's always been affleck.

Speaker 1 Never been affleck. Is that just like the Philly accent getting in there? No, it's just

Speaker 1 you're overdoing it. You're overdoing it with the

Speaker 1 Ben Affleck.

Speaker 1 You're either saying Affleck or Affleck. Affleck is

Speaker 1 saying the same. Affleck.
You're saying like affect. No, I'm not.
I'm saying it's either afflecked or affleck. You added a T on one of those.
I swear to God I heard it T. I definitely add T sometimes.

Speaker 1 And that's for sure wrong.

Speaker 1 Listen, if it wasn't for football, I'd be just like Ben Affleck and Goodwill Hunting. You know what I mean? I'd be just working the docs.

Speaker 1 What docs?

Speaker 1 He was like, doctor's a construction.

Speaker 1 What docs?

Speaker 1 What docks are you? It's been a while since I've seen that movie. What are you, Danny Green, who work in the fucking docks at Lake Erie?

Speaker 1 It's a major shipping hub, Travis. Mom and dad, mom and mom, dad and dad, whatever.
Parents, are you about to spend five hours in the car with your beloved kids this holiday season?

Speaker 1 Driving to old Granny's house? I'm setting the scene. I'm picturing screaming, fighting, back-to-back hours of the K-pop Demon Hunters soundtrack on repeat.

Speaker 1 Well, when your ears start to bleed, I have the perfect thing to keep you from rolling out of that moving vehicle. Something for the whole family.
He's filled with laughs. He's filled with rage.

Speaker 1 The OG Green Gronk, give it up for me, James Austin Johnson, as the Grinch.

Speaker 1 And like any insufferable influencer these days, I'm bringing my crew of lesser talented friends along for the ride with A-list guests like Gronk, Mark Hamill, and the Jonas Brothers, whoever they are.

Speaker 1 There's a little bit of something for everyone. Listen to Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.