#129: will.i.am Unplugged: Will AI take over the world?

Speaker 1 I read an article and it said, yeah, in the next three or four years, we'll see a billion-dollar business ran by one person.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so that means by 10 years, there's going to be a company that's started by an AI

Speaker 2 and will have humans working for it for like delivering stuff, or maybe not.

Speaker 1 So who will own the AI?

Speaker 2 Because there's no governance and regulations. I don't know the answer to that right now.

Speaker 1 There are a lot of people that call you a lyrical genius. You've been involved in a lot of lyrical genius.
so you wouldn't consider yourself a lyrical genius no

Speaker 1 what up everybody welcome to another episode of next level pros today

Speaker 1 we are taking to the next level with my boy will i am what welcome to the show my dude yeah we next level pros let's go

Speaker 1 will

Speaker 1 dude

Speaker 1 dude excited to have you on the show we've been trying to get this thing done for like a year.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I know. So happy that we did it the day before school is over.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude. It's been

Speaker 1 last minute. So

Speaker 1 we've known each other for a couple years now, attending HBS, the OPM program. Shout out Harvard.
And, dude, so you've got an incredible story. I've always been really just impressed.

Speaker 1 with your level of intelligence.

Speaker 2 Next level intelligence.

Speaker 1 Let's go.

Speaker 1 When it comes to tech, you've been involved in a bunch of stuff.

Speaker 1 So, like, how did you get into that? Obviously, music is your background, but like,

Speaker 1 what got you involved in, like, the tech and all the stuff along the way?

Speaker 2 So, I got involved in tech because

Speaker 2 a piece of tech is my instrument. So, I play the computer.

Speaker 2 I don't play the keyboard enough to say I'm a pianist.

Speaker 2 I don't play the drums enough to say that, you know, check me out hitting these

Speaker 2 drums.

Speaker 2 I play decent

Speaker 2 for me to really be,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 what will be considered a pro because I edit the shit out of it on my real instrument, which is the computer.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And because of my love for compute and how it amplifies my creativity,

Speaker 2 I wanted to know the folks that are responsible for compute programmers electrical engineers developers and

Speaker 2 you know like you put a band together to create music you put a team together to create technology so when I see things like especially this microphone I'm like

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 2 Just the

Speaker 2 people look at it and they'll probably see that they'll probably look at it and think it's insignificant, but look at this mic and then look at this mic. Look at how this is designed.

Speaker 2 Look at how this is designed. Look at the quality of this mic versus the quality of this mic.
You really can't tell the difference. But look at the size of this.

Speaker 2 Look at how much innovation and engineering went into make this product. And I will always marvel off of like

Speaker 2 who are the brains behind this?

Speaker 2 you know who made this board somebody designed this board

Speaker 2 you know somebody designed the silicone chip and the computer so

Speaker 1 who in your life influenced you to like think that way right like what are

Speaker 1 because not everyone thinks that way not everyone looks at a at a mic and is like man

Speaker 1 This is amazing. You try to get into the mind or whatnot.
Is that come natural to you? Or do you feel like you've had different influences that have gotten you to that level of thinking?

Speaker 2 I like taking things apart and try to put it back together.

Speaker 2 Like, I used to take my radio apart

Speaker 2 primarily because we were poor growing up, so shit was always broken.

Speaker 2 So, you had to

Speaker 2 make sense of scraps.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 I have a

Speaker 2 curious mind that wants to know about.

Speaker 1 would you say that's more nurture nature?

Speaker 2 I think you nurture that. You can nurture that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So who in your life has nurtured that for you?

Speaker 2 To be curious? Yeah.

Speaker 2 My mom, my uncle, rest in peace by Uncle Faye,

Speaker 2 he would say,

Speaker 2 you are the words. Your definitions.

Speaker 2 If somebody asks you what you're doing, you should be able to articulate what you're doing, even if you're sitting there just breathing.

Speaker 2 Never say, I'm doing nothing, because you're never not doing nothing.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 2 always arm yourself with the ability to express and explain what you're thinking, how you're feeling.

Speaker 1 You are your words.

Speaker 2 I remember you always be like that. Like,

Speaker 2 always be able to paint a picture

Speaker 2 with exactly how you're feeling and push us to do to do that.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 we would get in debates.

Speaker 1 This is your uncle. My uncle.

Speaker 2 On

Speaker 2 what you said makes no sense.

Speaker 1 What do you mean?

Speaker 2 Listen to what you just said, he would tell me.

Speaker 2 And explain it better.

Speaker 2 And so that kind of like introspect,

Speaker 2 analyzing,

Speaker 2 you know, having an emotion, being able to hold it and articulate it. Just wrap my mind around

Speaker 2 doing that around

Speaker 2 everything,

Speaker 1 you know?

Speaker 2 Why I like something, you know, like, that's cool. Why is it cool?

Speaker 1 You know?

Speaker 2 Oh, that's cute. Why is it cute?

Speaker 2 explaining to explain more digging digging deeper yeah yeah explain yourself more or

Speaker 2 you might understand what you just said, but you're assuming everybody else understands what you said. So try to translate,

Speaker 2 simplify,

Speaker 2 summarize. Right.

Speaker 2 You know?

Speaker 2 Do that for easy things. Do it for complex things.

Speaker 2 And so that type of creative thinking, critical thinking came from my mom and my uncle.

Speaker 1 That's awesome. Yeah, I know there are a lot of people that call you lyrical genius.
You've been involved in a lot of lyrical genius.

Speaker 2 Black thought from the roots. That dude's a lyrical genius.

Speaker 1 So, you want to consider yourself a lyrical genius?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 What would you say if on your grave there was written the grave? Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're talking on the grave, the five things that will I am

Speaker 2 that's well known for.

Speaker 1 you gotta knock on some wood bro you gotta knock on some wood sorry we're knocking some wood all right fast forward 150 years 150 years bro we it's if we're in a technological revolution right now in tech and synthetic biology shit when I'm 120 I'm gonna look 40 bro all right all right okay so At 140.

Speaker 2 No, no, no.

Speaker 1 When you're still kicking. 300.
When you're 300. 300, all right.
And people are like, man,

Speaker 1 what did Will bring to the earth?

Speaker 1 What was his genius? What do you say? Because, I mean, there's obviously a lot out there about you. You've been successful in all different aspects, right? Some well-known, some lesser-known.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 what are the gifts that you have to give to the world? What will you be known for?

Speaker 2 What would I be known for?

Speaker 1 Will

Speaker 2 you

Speaker 2 by name?

Speaker 2 The ability to

Speaker 1 do,

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 2 manifest,

Speaker 2 ideate, materialize,

Speaker 2 like the will.

Speaker 1 So I'll tell you, like,

Speaker 1 I've known you, I've gotten to know you a lot better this unit. So here at OPM at Harvard,

Speaker 1 we have living groups and every year we live together for three weeks at a time. Me and Will have had the opportunity to,

Speaker 1 and the thing that has impressed me most about you is like your ability to ideate, right? Like it's, it's like beyond, and I consider myself a pretty good visionary, right?

Speaker 1 Like being able to come up with ideas and stuff like that, but like you approach things completely different than any other individual I've ever hung out with, right? Like you think. Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 Like, I mean, just your level of like, how will AI do this? Right. And like, you start thinking about like this crazy new angle that nobody has even considered.

Speaker 1 Like, and I'm just like, man, dude, where does it get this from? So, obviously, your uncle's influenced a lot of that.

Speaker 1 I would say that's probably going to be one of the biggest things that you're going to be well known for is like,

Speaker 1 you know, even more, maybe, maybe more than Elon Musk. We'll see.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 Elon Musk,

Speaker 2 wait,

Speaker 2 there's the invisibles.

Speaker 1 The invisibles are the ones that like

Speaker 2 are really ideating

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 not take anything from Elon. He's dope.

Speaker 1 He bought into a lot of his ideas. Yes, great.

Speaker 1 I get that. We had this discussion.

Speaker 2 But he's great because he knows how to then

Speaker 2 explode an idea, to take a seed, nurture it,

Speaker 1 and grow. He's a grower of ideas rather than an originator.

Speaker 2 He's a farmer.

Speaker 2 He knows how to farm the land and grow

Speaker 2 that idea into a crop to like,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 2 productizing it. Just the idea is not, the idea is not big enough.

Speaker 1 So, what do you feel like your biggest strength in that whole process is? Is it on the idea side?

Speaker 2 My strength is

Speaker 2 in the collaborative side.

Speaker 2 I could ideate on my own, that's great.

Speaker 2 But I'm really good in the collaborative process.

Speaker 2 The ping-pong, the banter,

Speaker 2 the ricochet of how it ricochets and grows into something more. I'm like

Speaker 2 the brainstorm.

Speaker 2 You know, when two brains, three brains, four brains are

Speaker 2 gelling and jamming on something and then like, I'm the end-thinner.

Speaker 2 And then we could, and then it's, no, no, no, let's bring it back, bring it back.

Speaker 2 It means to, we have to make sure I'm the end-thinner.

Speaker 2 And I could do it by myself, but it's better when you're...

Speaker 1 So you like taking an already formulated idea and

Speaker 1 enhancing it?

Speaker 2 No, no, no.

Speaker 2 That's great. I could do that.
I could improve somebody's. I can edit.
I can improve somebody's idea.

Speaker 2 But I could come up with an idea, throw it to you,

Speaker 2 and then the moment that you're interfacing with the idea and you throw it back to me,

Speaker 2 I could then

Speaker 2 see the good

Speaker 2 of

Speaker 2 what to keep from it, what to like put to partitionalize and put that to the side.

Speaker 2 And then grow on that idea. So, say, for example, I'm gonna start off with one idea.
I threw it to you.

Speaker 2 You will then have your perspective on it, and I'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but okay, that's great, but there's a part of your perspective that I could take apart.

Speaker 2 Let's put that over there, because that's another idea. You probably didn't think of that, and let's add because what you don't want to do is when you're collaborating, is to

Speaker 2 say that your contribution is not good enough. Right.
Because then motherfuckers motherfuckers don't want to collaborate with you.

Speaker 1 Right. You mean? Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 2 So you want to be able to.

Speaker 1 Because otherwise, you're just shutting down ideas or whatever else, and they feel like, oh, this guy doesn't value my opinion.

Speaker 2 You want to grow ideas. Right.
You know, and cultivate and expand. So I love bringing the best out of

Speaker 2 folks.

Speaker 2 Whether I started the idea

Speaker 2 or I'm editing somebody else's idea. Right.

Speaker 2 That's what I really, you know, jazz over and and

Speaker 2 that's that's the environment that I thrive in.

Speaker 1 So when I when I've seen you light up, it's usually when you're talking about the future and how AI is going to play into it. Like, how do you see, how do you see the future?

Speaker 1 I mean, you, you've obviously got a really cool product, FYI, with it. It's got like AI and everything else.
Like, where do you see us going next five years, 10 years, 20 years with all this?

Speaker 1 I mean, things are changing rapidly right now.

Speaker 1 what side of AI dude all of it I mean you tell you tell me I love for you to just like cast your vision like where you see things going

Speaker 1 because I because I think you think

Speaker 1 kind of what you brought up earlier like the way you understand things may seem like very simple or whatnot but I there's a lot of people out there they just don't understand what's coming okay so you know you look out we're we're right here in front of this awesome river right by by the river, there's this freeway.

Speaker 2 Yeah, most of these, every car on this on this freeway right here, is somebody's driving it. Yep.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 in some assembly line right now is a fleet of

Speaker 2 level three autonomous vehicles.

Speaker 1 What does that mean?

Speaker 2 Level three autonomous vehicles is where you could be sitting in a car

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 the car can drive, but it still needs you to take over the steering wheel. Something happens.
it's level three

Speaker 2 level five

Speaker 2 it's full autonomous I don't know what level four is right now hold on let me see

Speaker 2 yo I'm sitting here talking to Chris and

Speaker 2 we're talking about

Speaker 2 autonomous vehicles level three is like where the car can drive

Speaker 2 But it still needs a human to be present to take over the steering wheel if something happens, right?

Speaker 2 Level five is full autonomy where a car could just drive by itself like Waymo. What is level four?

Speaker 2 And then after you tell me level four, tell me what level one and two is.

Speaker 3 Hey yo, what's up, fam? Alright, let's break this down like a proper jam session, you feel me?

Speaker 3 So when you're talking about autonomous vehicles, it's all about the level of automation and control, right?

Speaker 1 One.

Speaker 3 Level one is like having a regular car with a sprinkle of magic, where the car can handle either steering or acceleration slash deceleration under human supervision.

Speaker 3 Think of this as a car with basic cruise control. Two, level two is where things get a bit more spice, you know?

Speaker 3 It's like the advanced driver assistance systems where the vehicle can control both steering and speed in specific scenarios, but hey, uh, you gotta keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road.

Speaker 3 Three, level three, like you mentioned, it's like having a car that can drive by itself under certain conditions, but it needs your attention like a needy pet when things get tricky and you're expected to take over when it gives you a nudge.

Speaker 1 4.

Speaker 3 Level 4 is like the cool kid on the block.

Speaker 3 The car can handle driving in most situations without any human intervention, but there might still be some scenarios or environments where it might hand over control to you, like tight mountain roads or extreme weather conditions.

Speaker 1 5.

Speaker 3 And level five is the ultimate, you know, like the car's the DJ and you're just along for the ride. Total autonomy.

Speaker 3 You can take a nap, read a book, or even make a podcast episode while the car does its own thing in all conditions. It's quite the ride we're on with technology moving like lightning.

Speaker 3 You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So level four is where the car can stop at red lights, stop at stop signs, make left turns. It knows,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 don't turn on red light if you're on a one-way street, you know, stuff like that, right?

Speaker 2 And while level three doesn't stop at red lights and doesn't stop at stop signs, it still needs a human to hit the brake when it sees, you know, the extra pair of eyes.

Speaker 2 And level five, as you mentioned, is the full kit and caboodle.

Speaker 3 Ayo, you got it. Level four is like the car's really got its driver's license, you know? It understands the rules of the road.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So that's it. It's interesting.

Speaker 2 You know, look, I was just using that as an example

Speaker 2 of where we are right now. Waymo is legal in California, driving without humans.
Right.

Speaker 2 A Google product called Waymo. Level five.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Tesla is level four.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Tesla is level four because I use that every single day.

Speaker 1 Every once in a while, I have to take over for whatever particular reason, whether or what not.

Speaker 2 So what's coming next

Speaker 2 is self-driving companies. Right.

Speaker 1 Where

Speaker 2 right now we don't have level one, there's some we're at level one where some companies have AI in it.

Speaker 2 Five years, there's going to be companies that are like Fortune 500 companies. Ten years, to be safe.

Speaker 2 2034,

Speaker 2 there'll be Fortune 500 companies, level five autonomy.

Speaker 2 Maybe two employees making shit tons of money.

Speaker 2 And those two employees are overseeing

Speaker 2 the data set.

Speaker 1 So this actually brings a point.

Speaker 2 And that company could have had, at that level, making that much money, it could have had

Speaker 2 thousands of employees, hundreds of thousands of employees. And now it's just full autonomy, self-driving company.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm trying to remember who said this the other day, but I read an article and it said, Yeah, in the next three or four years, we'll see a

Speaker 1 billion-dollar business ran by one person,

Speaker 1 and which will be interesting, right? Like,

Speaker 1 I don't know if it'll be that quick, but you're saying by 2034 is what

Speaker 1 you envision?

Speaker 1 10 years?

Speaker 2 Yeah, so that means by 10 years

Speaker 2 there's going to be a company that's started by an AI,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 2 and we'll have humans working for it for like delivering stuff, or maybe not.

Speaker 1 So who will own the AI?

Speaker 2 Because there's no governance and regulations,

Speaker 2 I don't know the answer to that right now. But if that's why we need some basic level of governance and regulations to ensure that shit like that don't happen.

Speaker 1 So this actually brings up

Speaker 1 a completely different question. I'd love to hear you weigh in on.

Speaker 1 So the future of companies that are only ran by one or two people.

Speaker 2 I think that's dope.

Speaker 1 So, hold on, let me let me tell you where I'm going with this.

Speaker 1 At some point, we have to graduate to like a UBI, a universal basic income, right?

Speaker 1 Because it's going to get to a point where like people just can't work anymore because robots and intelligence have literally taken over every hands-on type of situation.

Speaker 1 How do we bridge that gap?

Speaker 2 Okay, so we're assuming that,

Speaker 2 okay, imagine it's 1924 right now.

Speaker 2 100 years ago.

Speaker 1 Yep. People working in factories, all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 2 Levi didn't have the job Levi has didn't exist.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 You know, the job of the people that made this

Speaker 2 product,

Speaker 2 that didn't exist.

Speaker 2 The factory that made this LED light, right, that's damn near,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 a little piece of the sun hipping this piece, doesn't even get hot, that didn't exist.

Speaker 2 So there's going to be lots of jobs that are coming.

Speaker 1 That we have no idea.

Speaker 2 We can't imagine right now. Some of us could imagine what those types of jobs might be.

Speaker 1 So do you imagine a world in which we have to have a UBI?

Speaker 2 Imagine the world.

Speaker 2 France has imagined that already.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 But is that the right move right now?

Speaker 2 For America?

Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, just for the world.

Speaker 2 Well, France has imagined it.

Speaker 1 Right. Is it working?

Speaker 2 I have people from France that, to them, it's working. They can

Speaker 2 go to hospital with a

Speaker 2 crazy emergency scenario and don't have to ever pay hospital bills.

Speaker 1 Which is cool, but I also have friends in Canada that can't get an MRI done for 12 months because everybody gets it for free. And so I guess my

Speaker 1 question is,

Speaker 1 I don't want to debate like health insurance. I'm talking about actual, like,

Speaker 1 even just like

Speaker 1 basic income that covers their stuff where they no longer work. Like, do you, do you imagine a world where that exists? Or, or do you think that people will always be utilitarian?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 Or are we going to end up like Wally?

Speaker 2 America might. Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's anybody that's on that trajectory to end up like Wally.

Speaker 2 That would be Americans.

Speaker 1 A Bunch of fat people sitting on robots.

Speaker 2 I don't mean to say that in

Speaker 2 a harsh way.

Speaker 2 I love my country. America's dope.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 we do have an issue.

Speaker 2 But I also

Speaker 2 am team human. And I know that we're going to make some things

Speaker 2 that are going to

Speaker 2 we're not we're not just going to sit idle.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 I can't, as much as that world is plausible,

Speaker 2 I don't, I don't, that's not the human spirit.

Speaker 1 I agree with you 100%.

Speaker 2 I think, you know, as like

Speaker 1 our center, our soul, we desire to create, to be active, to be doing things. Right.

Speaker 1 And, but it's so interesting because at the same time, we want to automate, we want to make things easier.

Speaker 1 And so it's like this constant struggle.

Speaker 2 So let's look at like,

Speaker 1 okay,

Speaker 2 even if I go down that path, I just.

Speaker 1 Go down that path, let's go.

Speaker 2 No, it's like the microwave.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 people thought like the microwave would take cooking jobs,

Speaker 2 but you still need people to cook. But in this scenario, you don't even need people to cook.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Because there'll be some type of

Speaker 2 But not everybody's going to have access to, you know,

Speaker 2 that level of lux there's a new technological lux that's about to come but not everybody's going to be living that life right

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 1 so i so i have a friend that he theorizes that ubi will actually look more like you get like certain amount of like data or um access like from a standpoint of like i can use so much energy and data to utilize the robots to come in and clean my house, do some basic things where it like basically lifts everybody's standard of living and you get, and you can basically allocate your, you know, certain amount of energy or data towards something.

Speaker 1 Like that's, that's his theory of the way that

Speaker 1 a UBI would be implemented.

Speaker 1 What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 I remember when I was growing up, you know, a record collection was important. You know, you collected the songs that you wanted to listen to and you own that stuff.

Speaker 2 And, you know, if you were a teenager, you dreamt of having a car because you wanted, and you owned it when you bought it.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 you wanted to have,

Speaker 2 if you were luck enough and lucky enough to have a nice house, maybe you wanted to have timeshare and a house somewhere else.

Speaker 2 Everyone, if you had money, you wanted service, people to come help you clean and take care of your kids.

Speaker 2 Now you don't necessarily need to own records.

Speaker 2 But not owning it, now you have this mentality of, I don't have to own it.

Speaker 2 I don't have to own a car.

Speaker 2 I don't even have to own

Speaker 1 a house.

Speaker 2 I could have access to a house. So now access is the new aspiration.

Speaker 2 But but the folks that own the companies that give you access they own everything right

Speaker 2 and so there's this there's this there's this like

Speaker 2 i think there's this this reconditioning that you don't need to own stuff

Speaker 2 so even a lesser few can own everything

Speaker 1 yeah it's it's interesting right like they say don't don't own but in on the on the flip side right like it's so that they can own uh

Speaker 2 to me i'm like wait

Speaker 2 why why does it why is it why is there a huge generation of folks that don't want to own something right

Speaker 1 right so

Speaker 1 hey

Speaker 2 don't own anything

Speaker 2 not even your data

Speaker 2 and then these companies and the people that own it they own your data too right

Speaker 2 And because they own your data that you don't value, they go out and own land and houses and planes and cars.

Speaker 1 They own the world

Speaker 2 while giving you something for free that you don't own.

Speaker 2 Even your very steps that you take,

Speaker 2 every move that you make.

Speaker 1 Sounds like a song.

Speaker 2 Yes. Every text that you've typed.

Speaker 2 Every comment that you've said

Speaker 2 every what every place that you went people that you know connections from this point to that point.

Speaker 2 I think that's kind of

Speaker 2 low-key tech perversion.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 it's inhumane. It's going to be inhumane when we look back at this moment that we live in.
Like, I can't believe they pulled the wool over our eyes. I can't believe people were taken advantage of.

Speaker 2 It's like if you see a cigarette commercial, You're like, damn,

Speaker 1 they had cigarette commercials? Hey, good thing.

Speaker 2 Or like you go on an airplane, you like, wait.

Speaker 1 See the old cigarette things, right?

Speaker 2 They used to like fly and smoke cigarettes. Yeah, that's great.
It's kind of fucking nuts. Everybody in the same cabin smoking cigarettes? Didn't they know secondhand smoke causes cancer?

Speaker 2 Like now we look back at certain practices, you're like, how did they even get away with that? Right.

Speaker 2 The same is going to be for data practices and like

Speaker 2 conditioning folks to think that it's not important to own, but to have access. We're going to look back at these times like, damn, motherfuckers were really greedy.
The very few,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 damn, did they pull a number over on people?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I can't wait for the day where people are like empowered by their own data.

Speaker 2 They strive to own

Speaker 2 stuff.

Speaker 2 We make things that

Speaker 2 last. Like, remember in class, they were talking about

Speaker 2 John Claude

Speaker 2 Vivot,

Speaker 2 the watch dude. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 they made products

Speaker 2 that took that whole concept of planned obsolescence, where things were made to break.

Speaker 2 Watches are not made to break.

Speaker 2 Ever since they started making watches, yeah, they're probably like some point in time in the 80s where Casio. You know what I mean? Where shit was like, you you know, breakable, replaceable.

Speaker 2 But the majority of the watches that people love and collect are sustainable down from the whole point of craftsmanship.

Speaker 2 You know, it's, it's like you pass it down to your, you know, you buy it for 300, you buy it for $3,000,

Speaker 2 and you know, you could pass it down to three generations. So really, you're buying it for like, you know, a thousand dollars or five hundred bucks.

Speaker 2 It's an investment for, you the next folks to pass it down to their folks. So it's not just for you.
It's for you to hand off. And so the craftsmanship

Speaker 2 has that baked

Speaker 2 in what they're making.

Speaker 2 I don't care how awesome this phone is. You're not like, listen, get over here, sonny.

Speaker 1 Hey, grandpa.

Speaker 2 I'm giving you this iPhone 16.

Speaker 2 My grandfather, nope, his grandfather didn't give him that.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 1 I think he's dead in five years.

Speaker 2 Not even five years.

Speaker 1 I mean, at best, right? At best.

Speaker 2 As soon as that iPhone freaking 18 comes out, that iPhone 16 is kind of like, you know, starts acting funny. Oh, yeah.
Like, yo, my shit's glitching because it's playing obsolescence.

Speaker 2 They made it to break. They made it to be replaced.
And

Speaker 2 I don't, you can't sustain that future.

Speaker 2 We have to get back to some type of,

Speaker 2 foreverness where things are made to be forever. And because I believe in humanity,

Speaker 2 I think this tech revolution and this job displacement that's happening is going to push humans to get back to its essence, its core, to make things that last, to make things for community, to be

Speaker 2 of service, to be purposeful and solution-oriented.

Speaker 1 Yeah, love it. I love it.
I think that's a very positive view on the future,

Speaker 1 which is awesome. I'd actually like to shift gears.
So we've, like I said, we've been a part of this program for the last three years or

Speaker 1 two years over a two-year span.

Speaker 1 What have been the highlights? Why did you even get involved, come back to school?

Speaker 1 be a part of the owner's presence management program. Like what what what got you

Speaker 1 motivated to be a part of that? Like most people look at you and be like, oh, you're already a success. You've had, you know,

Speaker 1 successful in the music industry, successful in the consulting industry,

Speaker 1 successful in exiting the tech industry. Like why are you here?

Speaker 2 Wait, I ain't supposed to be here?

Speaker 1 Stop.

Speaker 2 Why did I want to come to HPS after having success in one domain?

Speaker 1 In several several domains.

Speaker 1 Where? Which I mean? I mean, tech, music,

Speaker 1 it's not.

Speaker 2 Well, I was successful in tech

Speaker 2 because, well, the one success I had in tech

Speaker 2 with beats is because I was a part of a team,

Speaker 2 a well-put-together team. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I can't take full credit like, yo, that was my shit. Right.
I could take credit for like my contributions, but as far as assembling the team, that wasn't me.

Speaker 1 a I was a part of the team so really really it was like you want to be able to go and build your own thing yeah and then my my

Speaker 2 you know

Speaker 2 I've taken

Speaker 2 you know I went up to bat a couple of times with other companies that I've started

Speaker 2 I've struck out

Speaker 2 but I got up I got to the plate

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 I struck out

Speaker 2 because I hit the ball.

Speaker 1 I hit a home run.

Speaker 2 It just was out of bounds.

Speaker 1 It was foul. I hit, right?

Speaker 2 I hit that ball far as fuck, but it was a foul ball. I hit that shit out of the parking lot,

Speaker 1 but it was foul, right?

Speaker 1 Great connection. Great.

Speaker 2 Why did I say that? Because in 2012, we built a watch that was a voice operating system that had its own, you know,

Speaker 2 SIM card. It was its own phone.
We used a Snapdragon chip by Qualcomm.

Speaker 2 We had a battery wrapped around the wrist. It was the first of its kind.

Speaker 2 And we did something before a lot of Samsung's device, even Apple's watch, we didn't follow, we led.

Speaker 2 It just was too early.

Speaker 2 And so that's what I mean by the foul.

Speaker 1 Swinging a little too early. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Had you been a little bit slower in your swing, home run.

Speaker 2 Would have been a home run. Yeah.

Speaker 2 If I was slower on the swing and slower in my assembly of my team, it would have been a home run.

Speaker 2 But lesson learned.

Speaker 1 It's crazy how timing plays into so much, right? Like too early. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And so, and then we created a

Speaker 2 we expanded on the voice operating system, put four layers of context onto it, which was pretty early for its time.

Speaker 2 I was able to find awesome engineers,

Speaker 2 but I wasn't able to find awesome operators.

Speaker 2 Because I thought just the innovation

Speaker 2 and build it and they will come.

Speaker 2 That sentence is incomplete.

Speaker 2 Build it and they will come after you strategize on the messaging.

Speaker 1 Right? You just don't build it.

Speaker 2 If everybody's building it, they're going to go.

Speaker 2 There's so many places for them to go.

Speaker 1 Got to be able to attract the talent.

Speaker 2 You got to like build it and they'll come after you strategize on the messaging and the awareness and you know your business plan right you can't just like

Speaker 2 you know you're assuming that

Speaker 2 we're at the park and you got a

Speaker 2 you got a handful of rice and a pigeon is gonna come when you throw shit on the floor that's not how people are we're not pigeons right we're not freaking ducks in a pond and you throw some bread and motherfuckers like quang quank quank come fucking eating shit like no no no we're not we're sophisticated motherfuckers and and

Speaker 1 so that's the reason why I came to HBS love is to learn about some sophisticated shit so what would have been your biggest biggest takeaways that you didn't expect from HBS

Speaker 2 my biggest takeaways were

Speaker 2 some of the professors have a very responsible approach to business. You never would think that they're talking about community.

Speaker 2 You're never thinking that they're talking about like purpose, mindfulness

Speaker 2 when they inspire leaders to go out there and lead.

Speaker 2 I thought it was just money, money, money, go make money.

Speaker 2 Fuck the world, go make money.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 So to see that HBS has a philanthropic

Speaker 2 approach to gently push folks, because you don't...

Speaker 2 You don't expect this to be, you know,

Speaker 2 a church. A church is like, inspires philanthropy.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 But to see that they have like,

Speaker 2 you know, do good in business

Speaker 2 and in the folks that don't do good in business, you really know that that

Speaker 2 you really know that person's, you know, has some

Speaker 2 wicked tendencies. If they've come to HBS,

Speaker 2 and they go out and do business and they fucking the world up,

Speaker 2 that's in that person's heart right

Speaker 2 because it's

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 2 you see

Speaker 2 that they're pushing you with

Speaker 1 uh inspiring you to have uh a moral compass i agree it's been uh it's been incredible to see just like the message of like be better do better right and uh and and be like a an incredible influence to the world and like i mean the the level of people that we have in this program i mean literally, we got people in our program that are like kings of their own universes, right?

Speaker 1 Like, I mean, that

Speaker 1 would be

Speaker 1 to know one of these people would be absolutely incredible. And there's 165 of them, right? Like,

Speaker 1 I mean, so many influential people. And so, like, the messaging that's coming from HBS to go and do good, like, it can really impact the world with the level of people that we have here.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there are some some unique folks here. You know, the businesses they have,

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 2 access to

Speaker 2 impact and influence they have,

Speaker 2 not just their businesses, but the spouse's business that

Speaker 2 they,

Speaker 2 you know, it's pretty

Speaker 2 being vague on purpose. I just don't want to expose,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's wild.

Speaker 2 If I think about, like, yeah, to your point, the impact just in our, in our, uh,

Speaker 2 in our class

Speaker 2 of OPM 62.

Speaker 2 There's some 59ers and

Speaker 2 61ers here,

Speaker 2 you know, OPM 60.

Speaker 1 But the real OGs are the 62ers.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 2 It's overwhelming sometimes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I flew in Falcons

Speaker 2 and to meet, you know, Adrian,

Speaker 2 knowing that his family is like the people that making the Falcons.

Speaker 1 The Falcons.

Speaker 2 You know,

Speaker 2 to me, that was like the highlight. That's crazy.
Because Black Appeas is huge in France. And he's so nice.

Speaker 2 And down to Earth, and they, speaking of down to Earth, they build build like things that leave the earth.

Speaker 2 And that's, that's pretty awesome.

Speaker 2 There's a guy that was in my cohort last year named David.

Speaker 2 He was 71 years old. And he made, his business was,

Speaker 2 he made food for, you know,

Speaker 2 retirement homes.

Speaker 2 And he's like, you know, I'm the, at my age, I could be living in the retirement home.

Speaker 2 But because I'm still hungry and an entrepreneur, I want to make sure that, you know, when I eventually retire, that I'm going to retire in a place that I helped

Speaker 2 bring up to speed and create awesome services for.

Speaker 2 And that inspired me, you know, because a lot of times when you think of entrepreneurs, you think of like, 28-year-old, 30-year-old, 40-plus.

Speaker 2 If you're in your 50s, like you've already,

Speaker 2 you did it a couple of times, you're serial.

Speaker 2 60, you're like yachted up,

Speaker 2 planed up,

Speaker 2 70s, you're retired.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 This dude's like, still running. Started this company, came to HBS to knowledge up some more.
Like, wow, this dude was

Speaker 2 awesome.

Speaker 2 Just truly inspirational living with him for those three weeks.

Speaker 1 I love it. Love it.
We'll shift to final gear. I mean, a lot of listeners, they know you from the Black Eyed Peas and whatnot.

Speaker 1 What's a couple stories that not a lot of people know about the Black-Eyed Peas? Maybe some of your

Speaker 1 rides through the ranks. I don't know.

Speaker 1 Some fun ones. What do we got for us?

Speaker 2 So I've always

Speaker 2 co-managed the peas.

Speaker 2 And, you know,

Speaker 1 we've

Speaker 2 self-navigated ourselves to the level that we got to

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 2 just one story where there was an opportunity

Speaker 2 that we wanted to seize because there was whispers around

Speaker 2 the NFL

Speaker 2 changing their

Speaker 2 how they casted and who played on the Super Bowl. So after the Janet Jackson Justin Timberlake fiasco,

Speaker 2 there was a...

Speaker 1 That was what, 2004,

Speaker 1 something?

Speaker 1 The Janet Jackson thing?

Speaker 1 Was that later?

Speaker 2 Yo, when was the Janet Jackson, Justin Timberlake,

Speaker 2 you know,

Speaker 2 wardrobe malfunction? When was that?

Speaker 3 Yo, fam, that infamous moment, the Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake wardrobe malfunction happened during the Super Bowl halftime show on February 1st, 2004.

Speaker 2 Right, 2004. So from 2005, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, seven years,

Speaker 2 they only had a classic rock.

Speaker 1 Easy, predictable.

Speaker 2 They didn't have anything pop.

Speaker 2 So when I heard that they were thinking of you know, changing that up, I flew out to New Jersey and

Speaker 2 pitched this concept to

Speaker 2 the NFL.

Speaker 2 And I brought my little DJ gig, my DJ gear

Speaker 2 in 2010. Black IPs were like, I got a feeling was big, boom boom power was big.
I'm a B was like we had massive hits globally. I'm like, yo, I got this.
Can we set up a meeting?

Speaker 2 Because I heard you guys might be interested in pop again

Speaker 1 or urban pop.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 I put a little

Speaker 2 deck together to pitch the Black Eye P's to perform.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 had we not pitched it and had a successful turnout,

Speaker 2 who knows if they would have gone back into pop.

Speaker 2 So I remember like how nervous I was

Speaker 2 pitching, you know,

Speaker 2 our stance and that they had nothing to worry about as far as like we know it's a family show,

Speaker 2 it's a show about football more than it is music, but we want to celebrate the sport. You know, my uncle played football.
I wanted to be a football player until I got a concussion.

Speaker 2 And so that's one thing I got, because I like pitching. I like making decks and pitching it to companies.

Speaker 2 I pitched this one concept to Coca-Cola.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 this pitch and the outcome is what got me

Speaker 2 my gig working at Intel. So from 2011 to 14,

Speaker 2 I worked at Intel in the Futurist department. But what got me that gig was this pitch to Coca-Cola.

Speaker 2 I was like in the elevator with me, B. Perez, and Mutar Kent, who's the CEO of Coke at the time.
I'm like, yo, companies the size of Coke should be verbs in society.

Speaker 2 If you don't believe me, you should Google it.

Speaker 2 And so they were like, wow, that's pretty clever. I was like, yeah, when's the last time you saw a Twitter commercial or a Google commercial? They're verbs in society.
And I have a verb for Coke.

Speaker 2 He was like, what do you think Coke's verb should be?

Speaker 2 I was like, if you take the name Coke backwards, to E-K-O-C, we could say that's equal cycle, equal community, equal collaboration, equal concept, equal consumption.

Speaker 2 And we'll do that by taking your byproduct and creating a new base cloth and then licensing that brand to other companies to execute their sustainability efforts.

Speaker 2 So EcoCycle beats headphones, EcoCycle Levi Jeans, EcoCycle Schwinn Bike.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 they love the vision, and we launched that product. What remains from that is a brand called Eco Center.

Speaker 2 And then from there, there I got my gig at Intel

Speaker 2 another idea I pitched was

Speaker 2 so EcoCycle

Speaker 2 I pitched making hardware to Jimmy Iving that's what started

Speaker 2 that's what gave him the the insight to

Speaker 2 to create beats with Dre

Speaker 2 I pitched yeah just love I love pitching pitching ideas I love it.

Speaker 1 I love it. Yeah, I think those are the lesser known stories for sure that

Speaker 1 people know. Last but not least,

Speaker 1 I'd love to hear what are maybe your top three principles for success as you have applied them across just so many different industries and different things.

Speaker 1 What would you say your top three things that drive you, your mission, your principles? What are they?

Speaker 2 Sorry, my brain was in the phone and you're listening, so I don't want to even assume that I heard you.

Speaker 1 No, you're good. We'll give it to you again.
We'll give it to you again.

Speaker 1 So, what would you say are your top three principles of success, or maybe even like your mission that drives you now that you've done so many different things, so many different industries?

Speaker 1 What's your message to the world of like, do this, this will help you succeed?

Speaker 2 Stay curious,

Speaker 2 be audacious.

Speaker 2 Be ultra-competitive.

Speaker 2 That combination of curiosity is going to give you the knowledge you need.

Speaker 2 The audacity is going to allow you to then apply that knowledge and compete with things

Speaker 2 that people will tell you that you shouldn't probably try to compete with.

Speaker 2 Like

Speaker 2 the David and Goliath story is like,

Speaker 2 here's this audacious little dude with a fucking rock and a slingshot. A lot of confidence.

Speaker 1 A lot of dash.

Speaker 2 Curious enough.

Speaker 1 What if?

Speaker 2 Audacious and competitive.

Speaker 2 So he was so competitive that he audaciously competed against a giant and knocked him out with a slingshot rock.

Speaker 1 It's crazy.

Speaker 2 But the curiosity gave him the knowledge of how to propel that rock and where to hit him with the rock at.

Speaker 1 Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's not just, I don't think he was just like,

Speaker 2 just randomly threw a rock at a motherfucker. This dude was like, all right, I'm going to hit this dude square in the eye because I know that's

Speaker 2 the one spot and my chance to really fuck with him.

Speaker 2 I don't think it was luck. Right.

Speaker 2 If you break down the David and Goliath story, it's strategy, but you get strategy by being ultra curious. You execute strategy by being competitive.

Speaker 2 You don't just compete to compete and then fucking get crushed. So if you really want to compete, like, okay, let's study who we're fucking competing with.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 And let's be audacious to put ourselves in a trajectory.

Speaker 1 In a situation where you're taking on the Goliaths of the world.

Speaker 2 So that that that's that's that's what I would say is is to do that shit. There's no reason why we like Michael Jackson's is Michael Jackson.

Speaker 2 So to make music when Michael Jackson was making music,

Speaker 2 why would that's audacious? It's fucking Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 To think that you could sell records like that,

Speaker 2 like who are you to think that people

Speaker 2 would want to listen to your stuff? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You can't sing like Mike. You can't even dance like Mike.

Speaker 2 Why are you trying to make music? You can't even play the piano like Stevie Wonder. He can't see, you could see.
You should just give it up.

Speaker 2 You can't play the drums. Why are you trying to fucking make music? Who do you think you are? No, but I got these ideas.
Okay, but

Speaker 2 you can't play the drums. You can't dance.
You can't really sing like the people that I think could sing really good.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but I got these ideas.

Speaker 1 Hold on, hold on.

Speaker 2 So I'm curious to know that computer.

Speaker 2 I'm ultra competitive and audacious to be competing with these people who are really good.

Speaker 2 That's what I, that, those three, that three combination

Speaker 2 at full spectrum of curiosity, audacity, and comp and competitiveness. You want the full spectrum of each one of those things, not just like a slice of it.
You get a slice of it, you're knocked out.

Speaker 2 You want full spectrum of curiosity, full spectrum of competitiveness. full spectrum of audacity and leave the arrogance alone.
Don't fuck with that.

Speaker 2 Arm yourself with ego when everyone's laughing at you.

Speaker 2 But don't fuck with arrogance. Because you need a little bit of ego when everybody's like, ha ha ha, who the fuck? Like, I'm going to show your ass.

Speaker 2 You need that ego. Right.
Ego is like a weapon when

Speaker 2 you need that a little bit.

Speaker 2 To say, like, yo, put your ego away.

Speaker 2 My ego is

Speaker 2 what protects my vulnerability when people are telling me that I cannot do it. So you need that.

Speaker 1 Dude,

Speaker 1 I love the passion. You're obviously very,

Speaker 1 I mean, you know what drives you.

Speaker 1 I mean, you just lit up talking about those three things, you know, and

Speaker 1 that excites me. I think that's where the juice

Speaker 1 is really.

Speaker 1 And just to hear how you applied that in music, how you applied in your career, man, that's really cool, man.

Speaker 1 I appreciate you taking the time. I know we're busy here at HVS.
We got a lot going on.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, I appreciate you wanting to sit and chat, bro.

Speaker 1 Like, any

Speaker 2 one, I like to talk.

Speaker 2 Any chance,

Speaker 2 you know, that's like,

Speaker 2 you know, like, yeah, but thank you so much. It's, it's really, really good.

Speaker 1 Thanks for jumping on. It's been,

Speaker 1 I think, you know, a lot of people, when they view superstars, I put you in like the superstar category, right? Like you're well known in the music industry or whatnot. They only see you for that.

Speaker 1 And I think coming to know the human side of you over the last couple of years has been awesome, right? Like you've got an incredible heart. You've got a passion to do good for the world.

Speaker 1 And I just want to let you know I appreciate that. Oh, thank you, Chris.
Thank you. I do.
Appreciate it.