#128: A company that helps you automate your profits, isn’t making profit.

Speaker 1 So, the name of your company is Profit Automation, and what I'm looking at here on financials is an unprofitable business. Is that right? Yeah,

Speaker 2 yeah, so far.

Speaker 1 I'll be honest, like looking at your site and listening to your videos, it's a little confusing.

Speaker 1 So, would you say the reason why you haven't spent money on paid or done affiliate marketing is because you just don't know what you're offering? Yeah,

Speaker 3 I have spent you don't know what you're offering, or you don't know how to package it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's I I don't know how to package it yet. I mean, when you asked me what my biggest challenge was, I don't know what I'm selling.

Speaker 1 And I'm just going to shoot you straight if you're good with that.

Speaker 1 Hey, everyone, today we have a special episode with Andrew Schultz. Andrew is a budding entrepreneur that has an offer that helps increase marketing for SaaS companies.

Speaker 1 In today's episode, we dive deep into what is holding him back. We look at his financials.

Speaker 1 We look at his marketing and sales strategy, along with a few different personal things that are limiting him on this episode of Next Level Pros. All right, Andrew, thanks for making the trip.

Speaker 1 Excited to have you. Excited to be here.
Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 So, you know, we've got a bunch of information here about your business. We've got to appreciate you putting this all together.

Speaker 1 Excited. So, you're the founder of Profit Automation? Correct.
Awesome. Awesome.

Speaker 1 Can I point out the

Speaker 1 funny aspect about that? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the name of your company is Profit Automation. And what I'm looking at here on financials is an unprofitable business.
Is that right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so far.

Speaker 1 So far. Good, good.

Speaker 1 I just, I thought when I was reading it over, I thought it was kind of funny. I'm like, well, hey,

Speaker 1 this is funny a little bit. But

Speaker 1 we're going to help you get this thing profitable. So you've been running this business, how long?

Speaker 2 About 20 months. 20 2023.
Cool.

Speaker 1 Is this a full-time side gig? What is it? Full-time. Full-time gig.

Speaker 1 And are you the only income winner in the house or does your wife work as well?

Speaker 2 She works very part-time. Okay.
So it's mostly me.

Speaker 1 So my question, first and foremost, would be like, how are you pulling that off?

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 we have...

Speaker 2 So we I got fired from my job in January 2023. Okay.

Speaker 2 We had gotten a HELOC just before that happened, which allowed me to kind of run in this direction without quite as much stress as we would have had.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So,'cause I mean, what we're what we're looking at here, um,

Speaker 1 you have kind of a basic cash in, cash out type statement, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Um, and it looks like uh when you're when you're referring to cash out here, so this isn't like your typical financials, uh, what is that expenses or is that personal expenses like or are those all business expenses that's everything so that's income for the family

Speaker 2 and any business expenses is it income for the family but is it business expenses or family expenses as well not family expenses just business expenses so i pay right i pay myself in the in out of the business for family expenses.

Speaker 2 But those don't go on business accounting. Okay.

Speaker 1 So is the cash out include you get, what you pay yourself? Yes. Okay, how much are you paying yourself right now?

Speaker 2 It's different every month,

Speaker 2 as you might be able to see from these. But

Speaker 2 I try to do a $5,000 payment.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 And then at the end of the month, we'll look at what the financials are and if I can do another one.

Speaker 3 How much were you making your previous job?

Speaker 2 I was a salesperson.

Speaker 2 I was there for eight months.

Speaker 2 The base was was

Speaker 2 105,000.

Speaker 1 Got it.

Speaker 2 For eight months,

Speaker 2 I didn't have any sales, so it was just that.

Speaker 1 So tell the listeners a little bit more like what exactly you do.

Speaker 2 So Profit Automation is a middle-of-the-funnel-focused marketing agency.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 I do, I call it a growth firm because we're more focused on not just a commoditized marketing service, but bringing specialized marketing and platforms to SaaS companies to help them grow.

Speaker 2 The niche focus right now is product-led growth companies who have a founder brand or a strong corporate brand that drives a lot of traffic for them.

Speaker 2 And we take the free users that they've generated, which are basically for a company like that, they're just leads, and we're converting them into

Speaker 2 paid users.

Speaker 1 Got it.

Speaker 2 Which is generally a pretty low metric for those businesses.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to pull up.

Speaker 1 I got

Speaker 1 right now. So the name of your website is what?

Speaker 2 Get profit automation.

Speaker 1 Get profit.com.

Speaker 1 Automation.com. We're screen sharing it here.

Speaker 1 So I looked at this earlier. It's got, you know, there's definitely, it's well put together.
So when your target audience, like, do they know what you're talking about when you say mid-funnel? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
So, like, who, who are you, who are your main, like

Speaker 2 it would be a CMO or a marketing leader or a demand gen leader. So they could be, they could have different titles.

Speaker 2 Sometimes there's not a CMO depending on the size of the business, but it's somebody who's in charge of marketing at a SaaS company.

Speaker 1 Got it. Got it.
So somebody in charge of marketing at a SaaS company. And how are you getting your clients right now?

Speaker 2 Every client that I have signed up so far in my business has been through word of mouth.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 let me get this straight. So you teach people how to turn

Speaker 1 leads that they already have into clients. Is that right?

Speaker 1 That's just kind of the basic of it. Yeah.
Okay. So because, so I'll...

Speaker 1 I'll be honest, like looking at your site and listening to your videos, it's a little confusing, right?

Speaker 1 Like, and it may speak perfectly to your target audience, but potentially your target audience is broader, and there's like more people that you could go and serve, uh-huh, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I think any of the broader audience would probably be a little bit confused. Like, I understand most marketing lingo.
I consider myself a pretty well-educated CMO type person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and even there was like, I think this is what he's trying to say, but it seemed a little complex. Okay.

Speaker 3 What can you explain your your sales process? So you're talking to CMO or

Speaker 3 one of these guys.

Speaker 3 What does that conversation look like? How long does that take to land a client?

Speaker 2 So I just pivoted to this market this year, and I've really only signed up one client in this market. It's a really good one.

Speaker 2 We had...

Speaker 2 one conversation

Speaker 2 and he was interested.

Speaker 2 We connected on LinkedIn. I commented on something.
I've been following him for a while. Yeah.
Made a comment on one of his posts. He said, hey, yeah, we should talk.

Speaker 2 And we had a conversation and he was interested, introduced me to his team, and we started working together right away.

Speaker 1 So right now, I mean, you're based on your monthly numbers, the numbers have kind of been all over the board. Yeah.
Right? I mean, you've got...

Speaker 1 2,000 month one, 9,000 month two, 10,000, then down to 6, then 8, 10, 4, 6, right? It's kind of like just boom, boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1 And I think you kind of shared a little bit of this. Like you don't necessarily have like

Speaker 1 a package or an offer really dialed in. Would you say that? Is that correct? Correct.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I think that's my biggest challenge is

Speaker 2 not having, I mean, when you asked me what my biggest challenge was, Number one was I don't know what I'm selling.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Being a little hard on myself there. Like I understand the value that I bring, but as you mentioned, I mean, this website is kind of a new iteration.

Speaker 2 There are clients, like the guy that I just mentioned, he just got it already. And he had some of the background that you had.
He knew, you know, some of the marketing styles that I do.

Speaker 2 Whereas a lot of the people that are in my market don't. And so.

Speaker 2 That's why it's like a lot of it's coming through referrals. Like if they get it, they get it.
And then we talk and we work together. But I'm looking for something a little bit more repeatable.

Speaker 3 Let me ask some questions on,

Speaker 3 I think, clients, and then let's go to unit economics. But with

Speaker 3 so, how many clients do you currently have? Two. How many have you had this year total?

Speaker 3 Five.

Speaker 3 Five? Yeah. How many have you reached out to?

Speaker 1 How many have tried selling? Yeah.

Speaker 2 So reached out to would be the wrong term. I haven't reached out to a lot of people.

Speaker 2 I've had inbound, probably

Speaker 2 five more.

Speaker 3 You're saying five people have reached out to you?

Speaker 1 You have to be able to get it. Just because they know that you're offering something? Or how did they, like, why would they reach out to you?

Speaker 2 They came through my funnel.

Speaker 1 And how are they getting to your funnel? Are you running ads?

Speaker 2 Three of those. No, I don't run ads.
Three of those came when when one of my clients who has a lot of

Speaker 2 he has a lot of followers on LinkedIn, he posted that he was working with me and I got three meetings on my calendar right away.

Speaker 3 Got it.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 essentially, you know, you have word of mouth has been

Speaker 1 pretty much it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So, I mean,

Speaker 1 really,

Speaker 1 it comes down to two major issues in the business. One, having to standardize what you're selling, right? Like an offer.
Yeah. And then

Speaker 1 a way to market it. Right.
Like, you know, if you, if you break down marketing, like just jumping over here to the TV, right? Like

Speaker 1 you have paid,

Speaker 1 you have

Speaker 1 referral,

Speaker 1 you have organic,

Speaker 1 and then you have affiliate, right?

Speaker 1 Do you understand the difference between the four? Yes. Okay.
Cool. So it really sounds like the only business that you've had is come through referral.
Is that right? Correct.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 because you weren't paying an affiliate commission to the guy that shouted you out.

Speaker 1 You're not running any paid ads. Correct.
Okay, and you're not really posting or doing...

Speaker 2 I do quite a bit of that.

Speaker 1 You do some, you're organic.

Speaker 1 Where does that organic stuff lay? Is it

Speaker 1 Instagram, LinkedIn? Where are you doing it?

Speaker 2 LinkedIn and YouTube. LinkedIn and YouTube.
And a podcast.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you run a podcast? Yeah.
That's good. Yeah.
Okay. Sweet.
How's that gone for you?

Speaker 2 I started it in January mostly just to start talking. Yeah.
To solve some of these problems we're talking about. Like what, you know, if I can talk and I'm going in public, you know,

Speaker 2 it will help me find my voice and talk about what I'm doing better. And so that's what I do.
I have about 31 episodes.

Speaker 2 all launched except for the last couple.

Speaker 3 Not a lot of listeners, but previously you said that the it's it's good value in the marketplace. You said something along those lines.
What why do you say that? What do you mean?

Speaker 1 How do you know that?

Speaker 2 Most SaaS companies right now are they're in pipeline crisis and it's it's been a really tough couple of years for SaaS.

Speaker 1 What is that? So yeah, when you say pipeline crisis, like that doesn't that that may mean something to me, but I'd say 90% of the listeners are like, what is he talking about? So what does that mean?

Speaker 2 Their pipeline, that's what they talk about when they have leads in the sales process moving towards close.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And so what's the definition of a pipeline crisis?

Speaker 2 It's the ways that they used to generate pipeline using

Speaker 2 their they they did a lot of outbound calling cold calling and cold emailing in the past they had a person named a BDR a business development representative okay who would do that work and that model just stopped working in 2023.

Speaker 3 You're talking about lead gen, bringing leads in.

Speaker 1 So, your initial lead generation. So, but how does your model solve that?

Speaker 1 Because you're saying you're not lead generation, you're mid, you're middle of the funnel, which is like retargeting old leads. Is that correct?

Speaker 2 Not necessarily old leads, but leads that they have right now that aren't moving forward, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, so yeah, just I mean, retargeting, rehashing, re

Speaker 1 yeah, so.

Speaker 2 Well, converting. Right.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 the focus I have right now, the thing that I, where I, my hypothesis is that this is going to be the area where I can make the biggest impact

Speaker 2 is in these product-led growth companies. So their leads are the people that they've signed up as free users.

Speaker 1 And so when you sell somebody something, right, say I'm... I'm a software business that has this pipeline issue, right? And I have a bunch of leads that aren't converting.

Speaker 1 What are you presenting to me?

Speaker 2 You have free users. You're probably converting somewhere between 1% and 3% of those into paid users.

Speaker 2 And now,

Speaker 2 and let me just preface this.

Speaker 1 This is new.

Speaker 2 So this web page that you just saw and this focus, I've narrowed it down very recently. Like just over the last couple of weeks.
Okay. So just so you know that.
Okay.

Speaker 2 But so you have all these free users. You're converting maybe one to three percent of them.
If you're like most SaaS companies who are running this, we want to increase that. And we put a

Speaker 2 we put a conversion program together in your welcome sequence and in the interactions that you have over the period of time when you have a free user who either converts or doesn't convert into a paid user.

Speaker 2 You probably have a specific amount of time where you know what that is.

Speaker 1 So are you just working as like, do you have software solution? Do you have a process? Are you just consulting me, coming in and building out something custom?

Speaker 2 So the components we would put together, and I can put this on software for you if you don't already have the tools to do this.

Speaker 2 We've got email programs, SMS, and then other communication methods like a webinar, like the perfect webinar you may be familiar with,

Speaker 2 or video sales letters or challenges.

Speaker 3 What are you finding? What's different from what companies are currently doing versus what you're doing?

Speaker 1 I mean, there's a lot of people that do SMS, email, build webinars, right? There's a lot of solopreneurs out there that I can go and hire. Why you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Those companies that are doing this, they're all doing a lot of the same playbook. You get a couple of emails.
as you sign up for their product.

Speaker 2 They generally assume that you're here because you want the product, that you want to to buy the product, and that you're seriously considering it.

Speaker 2 I don't really think that's the case, which is why only one to three percent are converting a lot of the time. They come with a problem that they're trying to solve.

Speaker 2 And the approach that most companies are using today

Speaker 2 just kind of presumes like, hey, you're here to buy our product. So they tell you about the product.
They tell you where to click. first and second and third.

Speaker 2 They tell you where to get help and support.

Speaker 2 You know, they welcome you to the family. It's all the It's all the same kind of messaging.

Speaker 2 I tell companies that

Speaker 2 when you have a new user sign up, you should understand that they're there to solve a problem.

Speaker 2 And the more that the burden of placing, the more that you place the burden of finding out, does this solve my problem on their shoulders, the more friction you're going to have and the harder it's going to be for you to convert them to the next step.

Speaker 2 You need to meet them where they're at and say, I know why you're here. You have this problem.
I understand you. And immediately, like as Jay Abraham said,

Speaker 2 if you can describe somebody's problem better than they can, then they immediately assume that you have the solution. That's a much better starting point.

Speaker 2 And then you talk, and then you talk to them about how they can solve that problem. Your software is part of it.

Speaker 3 So if I'm

Speaker 3 understanding you, you're saying that you're able to

Speaker 3 create more clarity around the customer's problem.

Speaker 2 I will help the company

Speaker 2 get more clarity around that yeah communicate in a way that centers on that problem and converts more people

Speaker 3 so your secret sauce is identifying what

Speaker 3 the problem is around their customers and their pipeline so you can pull them into action yeah And why should someone trust that you know how to do that?

Speaker 2 I have a good track record of working with businesses and doing this. So we've had

Speaker 2 some pretty remarkable successes with an adjacent industry of sales influencers who work in the tech space selling their training to salespeople. And times of a cris you know of

Speaker 2 it was a crisis in this industry in 2023. Like I got fired from my job.
And so did so many other salespeople. The market was just really poor.

Speaker 2 And the people I worked with, their buyers were not buying you know for that reason they'd either lost their jobs or they were afraid they were going to

Speaker 2 and um you know just using some of these tools like a seven email sequence we had a client that did fifty thousand dollars and in sixty thousand plus dollars in sales in three weeks from that or another one did 200 000 in a month just from seven emails you're saying these are clients since you've launched your business

Speaker 1 so my my question is if these guys have had this success why aren't they currently with you?

Speaker 2 One of them is.

Speaker 2 And the other one, he had cash flow problems.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So what I'm hearing is you've got a solution, you've identified, or

Speaker 3 you've already been able to implement it and see the results.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, that's a little bit of a different like those are that's a different business that I was serving I pivoted to SAS in January because I've spent my whole career there and I was starting to think

Speaker 2 that sales influencer space just wasn't going to be a market that was big enough for me to grow like I wanted to. And I spent my whole career in software, so

Speaker 2 my plan was to switch to SAS. And that's where a lot of the slowdown has come from.

Speaker 3 So you're trying to niche.

Speaker 3 And you're also trying to figure out what's your package. And then how do you offer?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So would you say the reason why you haven't spent money on paid or done affiliate marketing is because you just don't know what you're offering

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 2 i have spent you don't know what you're offering you don't know how to package it yeah it's i i don't know how to package it yet um i think i'm closest as close as i've ever been with with this new package.

Speaker 1 Okay, so what's what's your package, right? Once again, if I'm if I'm this person, what are you offering offering me?

Speaker 2 So on this page, my main offer for PLG SAS right now is

Speaker 2 a free, free-to-paid conversion accelerator. So they book a call.
We have a kickoff call. They answer some questions ahead of time.

Speaker 2 I do research.

Speaker 1 What do you mean a free paid...

Speaker 2 So the, yeah,

Speaker 2 that's the metric that we're focused on is the free to paid conversion.

Speaker 2 That's what they're looking at in this PLG business. Like how many of our free users actually convert to paid users? So this is an accelerator for that metric, and I'm doing it for free.

Speaker 3 What does PLG stand for?

Speaker 2 Product-led growth.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 Product-led growth. Okay, so

Speaker 1 I mean, you're using a lot of words that are really like

Speaker 1 too sophisticated. Like, I don't even care how sophisticated your user is, right? Like, marketing and sales has to be like very low level sophistication, right? Like accelerator, right? Like

Speaker 1 if you're telling me that you're going to increase my conversion rate, right? Because that's

Speaker 1 what you're telling me, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I will help increase your conversion.

Speaker 1 Or I will add another 2% to your conversion or you don't pay anything. Right.
Like that, to me, is like very basic, very needed, very, right?

Speaker 1 And because what you're trying to do with this funnel, if you will, is

Speaker 1 create interest in your services, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah. The goal is to have a really great offer for

Speaker 2 people to come in, have conversations with me, provide some value, and then upsell after.

Speaker 2 And this is a pretty, like I put a lot into this offer yeah

Speaker 2 so it's I mean there's a lot of value here if I'm communicating it in a way that you know my prospect understands right

Speaker 1 so I mean I'll just I'll just tell you like if I'm gonna be buying something no matter what like the

Speaker 1 like even though I know what KPI is right key performance indicator right like usually that's not what somebody's gonna market something as, right?

Speaker 1 Like, so we'll give you a program to smash smash your free to paid conversion KPI in 30 days for free. Like,

Speaker 1 what?

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So instead of like

Speaker 1 increase your conversion rate in 30 days for free, right? Like that's, that's like something that I'm like, oh, okay, what does that mean? Like,

Speaker 1 or like have have leads that aren't progressing, we'll increase your conversion in 30 days for free.

Speaker 3 Or it's like if

Speaker 3 if you know conversion rates are like you were saying one to three percent

Speaker 3 Yeah, if you double your conversion rate you will forex your profits right Let me show you how or something something that kind of pulls

Speaker 1 So with this particular scenario you're you're planning on working for them for free for 30 days and What does working for them for through free for 30 days mean?

Speaker 2 There are three calls.

Speaker 1 Kick off call.

Speaker 2 They answer some questions before the call. Yep.
do some research,

Speaker 2 come and have a deeper conversation on the call, go away. We give them three, the top three recommendations that we would have right there on the call.

Speaker 2 Then we go away and we build a custom program for them.

Speaker 2 It's recommendations and samples of emails, text messages, whatever we think is best for their market. and the user that they're converting.

Speaker 1 We put that together for them, have an implementation call, let them go and implement it and have a follow-up call for results what would you what would you imagine your target audience is doing in sales on it do you have like a a profile built of what your customer is like your target customer yeah it's a

Speaker 2 i'm i'm not exactly certain where i fit best on the company size scale um a lot of these companies i think that i could work with are going to be smaller what like hold on let me let me keep going here.

Speaker 1 Like, how, how small?

Speaker 2 Um,

Speaker 2 there are a lot of companies I could work with that are sub-1 million ARR. Okay, I don't think that's where I want to be.

Speaker 2 I think they're well, I think they're probably at least 500k to 10 million ARR.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I think first and foremost, it's important to identify like who you're targeting, right? Like,

Speaker 1 um,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 giving away something for free,

Speaker 1 like, it's very gimmicky.

Speaker 1 Like

Speaker 1 business owners, like to a consumer,

Speaker 1 free trials and those type of things work, right?

Speaker 1 Free 30 days of like doing work in my business makes me think, what the freak?

Speaker 3 Typically, if I see that, I'm thinking, I don't have the time.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because this is going to just cause, yeah, this is going to cost me time and I'm probably not going to get results. Like that's literally what I see when I when I look at what your offer is.

Speaker 3 And truthfully, if someone's coming with a higher price tag, I'm actually gonna pay more attention of why are they charging me so much. So there's this perception of like free equals cheap.

Speaker 3 And if I'm paying for something, I want to see the value in it. So I'm more interested in what they're offering.

Speaker 1 Does that make sense? Yeah. Like if I, I mean, the number, you're trying to impact the number one thing that drives any business, sales, right?

Speaker 1 You're wanting to increase conversion rate on sales.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I know it's expensive to do that as a business owner, right? Like training is expensive, top salespeople are expensive, good marketing is expensive, and you're offering it to me for free.

Speaker 1 I'm just like, eh,

Speaker 1 this guy probably has nothing that's worth. And just being completely frank, like this, that's what I hear as a business owner.
So, so with that, I think a better offer that,

Speaker 1 because what you're trying to do with free is eliminate risk, right?

Speaker 1 To the business owner? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I just want it to be easy for them to come in and get what I'm offering and see the value and then move forward.

Speaker 1 So a better option

Speaker 1 than eliminating risk with free is eliminating downside. Okay.
And what I mean by eliminating downside would be something like this.

Speaker 1 I will increase your conversion conversion rate and only take a percentage of the increase.

Speaker 1 For example, if I'm at 2% and you can come in and give me 4%,

Speaker 1 right? And I pay you a percentage of that increase in 2%.

Speaker 1 That's a win for me as a business owner. And it doesn't seem gimmicky.
It just, what it seems to me is like this guy's confident.

Speaker 1 in his product and service. So it eliminates the downside of this guy being a complete bust for me.

Speaker 1 But he actually has something of value, right? He would not be tying what he has

Speaker 1 to the upside unless he was confident he was going to be able to do it.

Speaker 1 Even though it's a similar type thing, what you're trying to offer, like free or whatever,

Speaker 1 it's just complete, it's completely different. And there's money for you to be made right up front.

Speaker 3 Yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 To be honest with you, I have not found a large appetite for performance-based payment in my market. I don't know.
When I negotiate it, they always don't want to do it.

Speaker 1 Have you tried, has that been part of your offer?

Speaker 2 It was a standard part of my offer. Even back in the sales influencer market,

Speaker 2 I'd say to make it,

Speaker 2 so I don't have a huge retainer. It'd be like, it's, you know, the retainer is this, and then you pay me X percent of sales or profits.

Speaker 2 And they would generally not like that idea.

Speaker 1 What about if it was offered up to a certain amount of dollars? Hey, look, you pay me performance up to 10,000 bucks.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I've had

Speaker 2 one person bite on that.

Speaker 1 Have you offered that a bunch of times? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. That's how it always was.
I always had a cap.

Speaker 2 But other challenges.

Speaker 1 Hold on, though.

Speaker 1 This is the thing.

Speaker 1 You're telling me that you haven't had a lot of people bite on this, yet you started this conversation with, I haven't done a whole lot of marketing or talked to a lot of people about it.

Speaker 1 So I find it hard to believe that you have enough data to say that this doesn't work.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's not, I mean, it's not a whole lot of people, but it, you know, it's probably, I've probably offered that

Speaker 2 five, six times in the business. And I've had one person want to do it.
The others wanted to work with me, but they didn't want to pay the

Speaker 2 percentage fee.

Speaker 1 Let's just use what you claim okay so you claim that most SaaS companies are converting at two percent right

Speaker 1 and if you can get them to four percent that's a win right

Speaker 1 and then you just explain to me that you've made an offer to five to six people and it had one convert what percentage is that

Speaker 2 20 20

Speaker 1 you see where I'm going here yeah so but so to say to say that doesn't work when you're getting a 20%

Speaker 1 conversion,

Speaker 1 yet these companies that you're offering solutions to are only getting a 2% conversion, that seems

Speaker 1 like a pretty bold claim.

Speaker 2 Well, here's the, I mean, this is the concern I have is

Speaker 2 those other people still wanted to work with me. They just didn't want to pay me that way.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 2 if I'm making that, my offer.

Speaker 2 I mean, I could still make that my offer and then walk it back if they don't want to do it that way i think too like i just don't want to i just don't want to cut out 80 of my market because they don't want to work that way the other and just real quick before you go gerrylow the other thing is

Speaker 2 at a sas company the larger the larger it gets the harder it's going to be to negotiate for that like it wouldn't even be in that audience so

Speaker 1 this this is what i'm hearing andrew um and i'm just going to shoot you straight if you're good with that um

Speaker 1 you're you're operating very much on a scarcity mindset, right?

Speaker 1 Because you're saying, and the reason why you're operating on a scarcity mindset is because you're not taking enough action to get people in front of you to be able to offer products to.

Speaker 1 Right. And so I get it.

Speaker 1 Like if you think that you're only going to have five or six total opportunities to be able to offer a product, you want to be able to capture as many of those people as possible.

Speaker 1 Because, I mean, from the looks on your financials, right? Like you have two clients right now, right? Losing one client is a big deal and gaining one client is a big deal.

Speaker 1 You have to overcome the mentality that one client is a big deal, right? Like

Speaker 1 you have to get out of that, that

Speaker 1 it's a very scarce mindset, right? Like what is your total target market? Like how many potential people could you pitch this product to in the world?

Speaker 3 And I think to

Speaker 3 kind of emphasize that, like the whole concept of 10x is easier than 2x, like trying to double your business is a lot harder than 10x in your business. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Because once you think, okay, I just need to 10x my business, period. What does that take?

Speaker 3 I need it 10 times the leads coming in. I needed 10 times the effort here and there.
And

Speaker 3 that's the same thing. The conclusion I'm getting is like you're trying to swing a home run every time you're up to bat.

Speaker 1 Like, think

Speaker 3 how it happens in baseball.

Speaker 1 And it's not even that you're trying to swing a home run for every time at bat.

Speaker 1 You're just unwilling to go up and take at bats and the very few times that you are at bat that they have to be a home run, right?

Speaker 1 Like it's not even that you're trying like it has to or else I don't feed my family

Speaker 1 is what I'm hearing.

Speaker 1 And so like you've got to like this is a sales and marketing issue, right? Like you've got to ignore Like, you don't even have to have the perfect freaking product.

Speaker 1 Like you've got to just go and get in front of 10 new people a day and offer your services. And if nobody's biting on your service, then you have the wrong offer.

Speaker 1 And then you need to make a little tweak. And then you need to go and get in front of 10 more people.
And if they don't take it, then you need to make a tweak.

Speaker 1 And like that is the foundational issue that we're talking about here. It really has nothing to do whether or not your product is perfect, your offer is perfect.

Speaker 1 You're not marketing.

Speaker 1 And marketing, you can do this in such a very simple way. Like, like, when we're talking about, like, the organic marketing here, right? We're talking about like

Speaker 1 cold DMing a bunch of people on LinkedIn. Are you doing that? I have done that.

Speaker 2 I'm not doing it right now.

Speaker 1 How many times have you done that?

Speaker 2 Um, hundreds.

Speaker 1 Back

Speaker 2 several months ago.

Speaker 1 I was doing it pretty frequently.

Speaker 3 I'd say another thing, too, is like, what services can tie into your service that people use before

Speaker 3 needing your service and what services do people use after

Speaker 1 what you offer? From an affiliate standpoint.

Speaker 3 Because the thing is is like you can start tying in and saying, hey, I got this one solution that takes care of this, this, and this. You fulfill on this.
You've got a company that does that.

Speaker 3 You got another company that does that. You're making a commission off of those.
You're making your money off of this. All of a sudden, you're able to offer something way bigger.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right?

Speaker 3 That's one of the ways I think,

Speaker 3 one, you can piggyback off these guys guys because you create a relationship with them. You're getting business from them.
You're giving business to them. Two, your offer can be a lot better.

Speaker 3 You can say, hey, this is what I offer. You have pricing in for both those guys as well as yours.
Or maybe it's just the before you or after you, whatever you want.

Speaker 1 I think it's a pretty, like, I know you probably fretted a lot. I mean, it sounds like you don't really know what you're selling or whatnot.
Like, you sell conversion, right? Like,

Speaker 1 that's what you sell. You increase people's mid-funnel conversion.
It's got to be that basic, that, and now you just have to have an offer on what that is.

Speaker 1 Look, you pay me performance-based up until 10,000, or just performance-based altogether. I will increase your conversion.

Speaker 1 And now, you need to get in front of people where that's actually going to move the needle. And because, like, once again, going back to just what we've talked about, five to six people,

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 1 you can't like,

Speaker 1 so when we were when we were selling at

Speaker 1 20 28 six million a month okay

Speaker 1 guess how many leads we generated a day

Speaker 2 hundreds

Speaker 1 thousand a thousand that means there was a thousand people that expressed interest in our product that we spent money on okay to to express that interest and then from them expressing our interest we reached out to and took a swing not all those converted into a phone call actually picking up, but when the phone call picking up, we had to convert those into an interested buyer that was going to take a proposal.

Speaker 1 And then from an interested buyer and proposal, certain amount of those were going to close.

Speaker 1 And at every level, there was a metric similar to like what you're helping these other businesses do, right? And you've got to do that for your business.

Speaker 1 You have nothing measurable from a marketing standpoint that is input and output, right? Like you want to go and solve this output. Like, I mean, I would too right now.

Speaker 1 You've lost five grand over the last 14 months. That's no position anybody wants to be in.
The way that you solve this is you have to start marketing what you do.

Speaker 1 And marketing, like start spending like a small, first of all, where are you at? financially to be able to spend money on marketing. Do you have any money?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 So you've been living off of a line of credit or a HELOC?

Speaker 1 Yeah, like when

Speaker 1 we needed it or a period of time. Do you have any money there in your HELOC that you could access?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean

Speaker 1 and so this is this is the reality right? It's like how much do you believe in what you do?

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 2 But like as you've seen today, like I haven't figured out how to communicate it in a way that's just like a no-brainer for people yet.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 that's where I'm trying to get.

Speaker 3 I don't think it's how to communicate it. It's how often you're communicating it.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 3 Because in any sales process, the more repetitions you get, the better you get. You start to fine-tune things.
You see what works, what doesn't work. Your closing percentage is actually phenomenal.

Speaker 1 If you're closing one out of five, one out of six.

Speaker 3 That's phenomenal.

Speaker 2 It's higher than that, but they're referrals. Okay.

Speaker 3 Facts. Okay.

Speaker 1 So then why aren't you asking for more referrals? Why aren't you going and creating more affiliate relationships?

Speaker 1 Most of these things are action-oriented.

Speaker 1 You're going to pay with everything with either time, energy, or money.

Speaker 1 Paid ads is going to be money.

Speaker 1 The other things are going to be time and energy. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 I guess what are you spending your day doing every single day right now?

Speaker 2 I'm doing the organic content. Okay.

Speaker 2 I'm delivering for customers and I'm like working on stuff like this.

Speaker 1 How long does it take to deliver for customers?

Speaker 2 It's up and down because as I mentioned in these documents

Speaker 2 without a standardized offer it's you know it's it's kind of ad hoc or bespoke.

Speaker 1 Are you selling contracts to these people or is it just month to month?

Speaker 2 It's month to month with a minimum number of months to start.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So usually three to six.

Speaker 1 Okay. So you have

Speaker 1 a six-month agreement. It's month to month.
But people, people,

Speaker 1 why would somebody leave you if they're getting results?

Speaker 2 The only time that's happened is because they had cash flow issues in the business.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 And so, I mean, so how much time is being spent every day to fulfill for customers?

Speaker 2 If I were to average it out, I'd say

Speaker 1 probably half the day. day.

Speaker 1 So half the day is being spent on that. So you're working

Speaker 1 for

Speaker 1 10 grand a month, 20 hours a week, is fulfilling on that.

Speaker 1 Is that something that could be hired out?

Speaker 2 Yeah, with some training. With some training.

Speaker 1 Okay. I mean.
So

Speaker 1 let's talk about what you love doing. So

Speaker 1 we have this thing called the energy matrix. We have quadrant one two

Speaker 1 three and four

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 and quadrant one is stuff that's low energy low value okay

Speaker 1 and energy is defined by do you love doing it

Speaker 1 and value is

Speaker 1 how much value it brings to the business by you doing it right or how much it would cost to replace what you do okay

Speaker 1 what do you what do you love doing in your business

Speaker 2 I love creating the content. I love

Speaker 2 doing the marketing for my own business or for somebody else's. So I love that delivery piece.
There are parts of it that I love more than others.

Speaker 1 Do you love the sales?

Speaker 1 I don't love the sales. You don't love doing sales?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 So selling two clients, you don't like doing that?

Speaker 2 I like it.

Speaker 2 You don't love it as much as the other stuff. Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay, so what I would put that in, if you look here, so sales I would put in quadrant three, which would be low energy, high value. Okay.

Speaker 1 Low energy means you don't love it, but it brings a lot of value, right? Mm-hmm. Okay, so sales is going to hang out here.
What do you hate doing and would require not a lot to hire it out?

Speaker 2 Specifically for growing the business and sales and marketing. Just anything.
Like accounting would go there. Accounting?

Speaker 1 I don't really do a whole lot of it.

Speaker 2 I look at it every once in a while. I need to.

Speaker 1 What about anything on the fulfillment side?

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's some automation work, technical work,

Speaker 2 building websites or

Speaker 2 just setting stuff up.

Speaker 3 You said marketing is one of the things you love to do.

Speaker 3 What aspects of marketing? Because I don't what we're getting to is like there's not a lot of marketing happening so when you say you love marketing like I feel like there's a disconnect there

Speaker 2 yeah so well when you say marketing I mean I'll split it into two things the marketing that's not happening is lead generation right now in my business and admittedly like that's a That's a weak spot for me that I've always had.

Speaker 2 I don't do lead gen in my business. I don't get leads for other companies.

Speaker 2 And my efforts in my own business you know have yet to produce something that's repeatable and consistent to generate leads

Speaker 2 i'm much better when i have leads

Speaker 2 um the marketing i love to do is

Speaker 1 copywriting email marketing basically the services that you're offering yeah have you have you ever tried to

Speaker 1 Like team up with somebody else that offers a similar service and just do those fulfillment

Speaker 1 The stuff that you love to do? Is that somebody that does the same stuff as me? No.

Speaker 1 Or somebody who does the legal stuff. That could use your services of copywriting, right? Like that type of thing, right? Have you ever tried teaming up with anybody?

Speaker 2 There was one guy who had a very similar business that I talked to partnership with a couple of times at the beginning of this year.

Speaker 3 It didn't pan out, but you guys had similar businesses?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we had similar businesses, which I think is what you're asking, right?

Speaker 3 But I think, too, it's complementary business, right?

Speaker 3 So, for example, someone who's good at the

Speaker 3 lead nurturing generation, sorry, lead generation, not the nurturing. Yeah, so you have someone on the front end, you're right behind them.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 So now together, you guys are bringing in leads, nurturing leads, converting those leads. but then you're also able to offer that service to others.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, and I guess I'm confused. So are you trying to do like a done-for-you business or is it like a consultancy of this is how to do it?

Speaker 2 I want to get to a done-for-you.

Speaker 2 When I started last year, I mean, I started this business without a whole lot of runway ahead of time. I got fired from my job, thought, what am I going to do next?

Speaker 2 I know I'm really good at this stuff.

Speaker 2 I can do this for a business.

Speaker 2 And I spent the first year figuring it, like kind of bouncing around between who do I serve what do I want this to look like do I want to be a consultant or do I want this to be an agency yep I'm trying to avoid commodity areas that are just going to get replaced by AI in the next one to two years anyway yep

Speaker 2 and so those are those are the things I've been navigating so

Speaker 2 the answer I know the answer now but I haven't always known the answer and the answer is I want it to be a done-for-you service that I can sell repeatedly at a higher scale. Yep.

Speaker 1 So, I I mean,

Speaker 1 really you have a sales and marketing issue, right? Like getting clients in the door, because at the end of the day, like

Speaker 1 if you have, if you have increased, if you have sales coming in at the top of the funnel here, right? So you got sales

Speaker 1 and then you have to do fulfillment,

Speaker 1 which is what you like doing. You like doing the fulfillment side of the business, right? Like doing doing the legwork or whatnot.

Speaker 1 But that is also for you to be able to scale because like half your day is being spent to be able to do $10,000

Speaker 1 worth of work a month. And so that really puts your max capacity at like $20,000 under

Speaker 1 your current offer, right?

Speaker 1 And so what I would be doing is I would be contracting with a sales company, somebody that has leads, some affiliate,

Speaker 1 something,

Speaker 1 because they're going to be able to drive you business that you currently, and you give them a commission and you and you figure out okay what am i willing to what am i willing to do this and you got to be able to know what you can hire out the fulfillment for right yeah because

Speaker 1 right now your

Speaker 1 your max amount of money that you're working for is $100 an hour because if you're making 200 grand a year that's a hundred bucks an hour right

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 yeah like that

Speaker 1 you got to figure out how somebody else can do the fulfillment for less than like 25 bucks right have you built out processes and systems to be able to do this to be able to tease somebody else to do what you do in some areas yeah okay yeah so

Speaker 1 first of all you need to solve the sales issue and the easiest way to solve the sales issue is to hire somebody to do sales that gets paid commission only

Speaker 1 right okay because then there's no risk yeah there's no risk affiliated with the uh commission only if they're doing cold calling, right, and just going directly to the source or with affiliate type offer.

Speaker 1 Now, if you're generating leads through paid advertising, there's going to be a little bit of risk. But then you just start doing,

Speaker 1 you know, figuring out what you can convert at. Frankly, if I was you, I'd be spending a little bit of dollars.

Speaker 1 100 bucks a month, a couple hundred bucks a month, nothing crazy on generating leads and see, can you start converting those and if you can prove that you can convert those then you put a salesperson on those that they're going to get paid a commission they have then they start building up because once again going back to what what i talked about is like you're putting too much of your destiny on a very scarce resource.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
Like you're, you're just hoping and praying that when you lose this one client, you can replace it with the client. And from what I read, you've done that for the most part.

Speaker 1 When you've lost a client, you've you've replaced with a client.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was, I mean, serendipitously. It was like, this just happened on the same day, the last two times.
One client left. I signed another client.

Speaker 2 I had been planning to sign the client. The client leaving was a little bit less of something I saw ahead of time.
And so. I was like, I'm growing.

Speaker 1 And I would say it's probably not serendipitous. I think it is just that scarcity mentality of like, you know, you have to always be here and you're there.
Right.

Speaker 1 And I would say most people operate that way. It's not unique to you.
Right. Like, don't think that like, oh, I have this unique problem that nobody else has.
Like most people

Speaker 1 do just enough to

Speaker 1 survive. Right.
And to be able to get to, like, but you've got to get past the survival mode, past this scarcity. And you got to think in abundance.
Like, what if?

Speaker 1 What would it look like to be able to have 20 clients, right?

Speaker 1 Like, and you need to start designing your whole strategy on what it's going to take to get 20 clients, what it's going to take to service 20 clients,

Speaker 1 and that has got to be your goal. It's back to Daryl's point of like 10x is better than 2x.
Instead of thinking, how can I get from two to three to four, think how can I get from two to 20?

Speaker 3 So, an example would be like, let's say in two months, if I could promise you you're going to have 20 clients, what would you do today so you're ready for that?

Speaker 3 What would you do?

Speaker 2 I would need to hire some people.

Speaker 2 I need to have those standard operating procedures built out completely in click up.

Speaker 2 I would need to.

Speaker 3 So the reality is if you're not taking those actions that you know you have to take in order to be at that size, you'll never get there.

Speaker 3 And what's interesting, and we've learned this, is like once you understand taking those big actions, like

Speaker 3 having a big massive goal will change you and make you think differently than if you're just waiting for something to knock on the door and be like oh there's my big opportunity yeah because it usually it is a knock on your door yeah like you've got to go find it but putting yourself in a mindset to find it is thinking and in the future what's the vision how are you getting there if it comes to you are you ready to go yeah and if you're not you're just gonna let it pass by you right and that's what most people do yeah

Speaker 2 so the hard part is hiring

Speaker 1 with this

Speaker 2 right like how would you how would you approach that

Speaker 1 so so again the least risk that you can take right now is going and hiring salespeople that are commission only or going and hiring affiliate partners that are essentially going to bring you business for a percentage okay right like that's going to be the most expensive it's actually the most expensive you think that the other way is the most expensive but the most expensive is giving up a percentage of commission or a large percentage to an affiliate partner yeah right But it's a way to be able to get money in the door.

Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then the other thing is like, you've got to be willing to take some risk, right?

Speaker 1 Like, and if that means diving into your, your HELOC or selling some assets or, you know, being able to like get it down, like most people are unwilling to sacrifice their lifestyle.

Speaker 1 for what they want, right?

Speaker 1 And we, we just think that we, and this isn't necessarily you, but most people think that they deserve the watch the house the the cars the every everything else where in reality is like they've got to match the action to be able to get there um and so like hiring is a slow process but it has to be done right like you you've got to make the the moves have got to be okay i got to generate revenue and if i'm not willing to generate revenue i got to bring somebody in that will generate revenue um so up here i have the disk analysis which we had you take.

Speaker 1 Hold on, just really quick.

Speaker 3 So one of the things you just said is we call RGAs, revenue generating activities. If you're not spending 80% of your time on RGAs

Speaker 3 right now, like that's all you need. You need more revenue.

Speaker 3 And what happens is, is as you're stuffing revenue, as you're stuffing clients in your business, you're going to have a bottleneck to fulfill, right?

Speaker 3 That's a lot easier to solve than

Speaker 3 building out all this stuff, perfect processes all the hires or whatnot so you need to stuff business into your yes you need to stuff revenue into your business and then the pipeline you'll figure it out it's like packing on a on a big trip you don't pack till the day before right but you always get what you need and and you might miss a few things but it's never a big issue yeah stuff the revenue in your business don't worry about how you're going to fulfill because you'll figure it out

Speaker 1 and it's way easier to hire and figure it out once you have the revenue than the opposite, right?

Speaker 1 Because you're trying to solve this like, oh, how am I going to be able to grow and hire all these people when I have no revenue? Go get the revenue. Right.
Even though you hate sales, go do it.

Speaker 1 I don't care. Like, go figure out how to get in front of people, ask for referrals, do affiliate relationships, spend a few hundred bucks a month on ads.

Speaker 1 Like start getting in front and perfecting exactly what that offer is.

Speaker 1 Like we don't know exactly what the perfect offer is going to be for your business because we're not in your business, but just understanding like like just simplify it,

Speaker 1 make it very simple. Solve a problem.
Identify the problem that you're solving, provide a solution and charge appropriately for it. And be the most expensive, right?

Speaker 1 Like do not, do not cheapen yourself. You could probably be charging these people 20 grand a month instead of 10 grand a month or whatever, whatever you're doing.

Speaker 1 And, but yeah, the worst thing you can do is have all the eggs in one basket, counting on one, one client to be there forever.

Speaker 1 You've got to get out of that mentality.

Speaker 1 So the other thing, just when hiring people,

Speaker 1 going over here to the disc analysis, we had you do a disc and you're a D,

Speaker 1 which dominant personality. And this is what I'll tell you about dominant personalities.
They're not very personable

Speaker 1 from a like they get crap done. Right? Like they they are drivers, they can get things across the finish line.
They're very goal-oriented, everything like that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 there's no like flowery anything, right? The I is the influence side, which you're lacking, which is fine. Guess what?

Speaker 1 The biggest thing that you need to understand about a disc is that the I, the S, and the C, you have to hire out. You have to find people that are going to bring the balance.

Speaker 1 There's no such thing as perfect people. There's only perfect couples, perfect teams, and perfect like groups.
And the way you do it is by balancing the disc.

Speaker 1 Like if I'm hiring a salesperson, what I would be looking for is somebody that's a high D, high I. They have both that influence and drive.

Speaker 1 Like those are you're going to be your top, your top salespeople in an organization. Deep personalities can do it.
They don't necessarily love it because they don't necessarily love people, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And then just so you know, like you can, you can fulfill all those roles, the I, the S to C, but naturally you're going to reserve back to that D. That's like going to be your default.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so eventually you get tired of being the I and the S and the C, and you want to go back to that D. That's where you just want to keep going.
And so back to what he's saying.

Speaker 3 You can fulfill all those roles, but eventually like...

Speaker 1 You have to have a team that balances you out. And so I would be focusing on going and finding a DI that can go and do some sales that's going to

Speaker 1 push revenue. And until then, to Daryl's point, like you've got to be at least 50%, 80% should be the target.
At least 50% of your day has to be an activity that is potentially generating revenue.

Speaker 2 Not fulfillment.

Speaker 1 Not fulfillment. Okay.
Not fulfillment. New revenue.
Yeah, new revenue. Because like you're going to get done the fulfillment.

Speaker 1 The problem is you're probably allowing that fulfillment to take a good portion of your day because you're putting off the actual revenue generating things or other things that you know you need to get done.

Speaker 1 And it's easy to do this. Yeah.
Would you agree with that? Yeah.

Speaker 3 And the other thing you could think of is you're like, man, I can get more revenue if I treat these clients really, really good and deliver a top of the line product. Yeah.

Speaker 3 The problem with that is it's not how the world works. Like you've got to do the activity that's bringing in more and more clients.

Speaker 3 If you, unless you want to barely survive, keep doing what you're doing, right? But you've got to shift your mindset to like, I've got to bring in 10x

Speaker 3 revenue generating activities. I've got to be able to stuff my business with revenue where I have a problem on fulfillment.

Speaker 1 How many hours are you working a week right now?

Speaker 2 60.

Speaker 1 So what what's the day look like? Is it sit Monday through Saturday? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's how many hours you're saying four hours a day towards fulfillment?

Speaker 2 Yeah, not on Saturday. That's generally like special projects day, doing stuff like building that new funnel or

Speaker 2 creating content for the podcast or LinkedIn, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 1 what I'm hearing, you're doing a lot of marketing that isn't marketing, right? Like

Speaker 1 podcasts and videos and funnel, like these are all cool things, but it ain't driving traffic.

Speaker 2 No, it's not.

Speaker 1 It's not lead gen no and you've you've got to do lead gen activities yeah if that means you going and knocking on these software's doors like physically or if that means cold calling them or dming them or whatever else like that is the work that you're avoiding and has to be done like i don't care how beautiful your your funnel is i don't care how great your podcast is if nobody's listening to that dang thing or landing on that dang thing you ain't gonna get a dang new client, right?

Speaker 1 And it has proven, like your only traffic has actually come and come through somebody saying something about you, right? Which is, which is awesome. And let's get more of those.

Speaker 1 That's a traffic driver. Like let's get more people shouting you out on their, on their LinkedIn.
Like, how do we, how do we do that? How do we get more affiliates?

Speaker 1 How do we get, like, that is, those are the true

Speaker 1 revenue generating activities.

Speaker 1 You're doing revenue capturing activities. Do do revenue generating activities.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 that's going to be the big, big changer. And because, dude, I don't care what your offer is.
If you have 20 people, 20 clients, it's going to be way, way better than what you got going on right now.

Speaker 1 Because if you lose one client at 20, no big deal. Right now you lose a client,

Speaker 1 you're struggling. It's a big deal.
You're sweating. Correct.
Yeah. And yeah, we've got to get away from that.

Speaker 3 So let me ask you, what are your takeaways? What are your actions? And where do you feel like you, why haven't you taken some of these steps?

Speaker 2 So the takeaways are

Speaker 2 just to have to have a much more intense focus on growing the business with new leads

Speaker 2 and then converting them through sales and marketing.

Speaker 2 I've got this marketing piece down, but I'm not putting anything into the funnel to test it and iterate to get to the right offer and then closing more people

Speaker 2 that's a mindset thing

Speaker 2 and

Speaker 3 I think what you got to realize is like you've got a product that has been built off of referrals yeah so you've got a good product yeah so now it's how do I take this product how do I get in front of more people

Speaker 3 and truthfully the way that I look at entrepreneurship and business is like if you've got a good product and you're not getting it in front of people like you're missing missing your calling in life.

Speaker 3 Your calling in life is to help other people. You can only help people if you're getting it in front of them.

Speaker 3 And if you're not doing that, like you're missing out on what you're supposed to offer the world.

Speaker 1 So it's like what Robert Kiyosaki says in Rich Dad, Poor Dad when he's referring to books, right? Like best written, there's best written books all the time that don't sell. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 Like who cares how good your product is if it's not a best selling book, right? You need to be a best-selling project. And so going back here with the

Speaker 1 four quadrants, if you want to just look over your shoulder here. So marketing and sales, like, and specifically lead gen

Speaker 1 clearly exist in your, in your third quadrant, which is low energy, high value, right? Like these things are what are going to drive the most value to the business.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you may hate doing them, but quadrant three, you cannot hire out before quadrant one.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 When you're building a business, quadrant one has to be your first hires. These are the things that you hate doing and do not bring a lot of value.
Right.

Speaker 1 And you meaning that you can hire them out for cheap, right? I can go and hire somebody in the Philippines for three bucks an hour or whatnot.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 instead of instead of putting off quadrant three or trying to hire that out, say, this is the short-term sacrifice that I need to make until I get all the quadrant one things off my plate. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then I can focus focus on getting the quadrant three. So then eventually you're going to hang out here in quadrant four and quadrant two.

Speaker 1 So quadrant four, this is the things that you love doing and bring a ton of value to the business. And then quadrant two would be low value or sorry, they'd be high energy.

Speaker 1 And low value. This would be things like with your family, right? Like you could hire them out like a nanny or whatnot, but you love doing it.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 this is where you want to hang out for the rest of your life is in quadrant two and four. The things that bring the most value

Speaker 1 and you love doing, and the things you love doing that you could hire out, but you're not going to because you absolutely love doing it. Right.
And so focus in this quadrant three.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm going to bite the bullet in the meantime. I'm going to do the sales, even though I don't love doing them.
And then eventually I can bring in a sales guy.

Speaker 2 Like.

Speaker 1 That is what's going to push this thing forward. And sales, I promise you, will solve all the issues.
It solves all the heartache. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, do you,

Speaker 1 I mean, you want to go a level deeper or are we out of time?

Speaker 2 Yeah, we got it. So it's not that I hate those things.
There's,

Speaker 2 I've done a lot of

Speaker 2 work this last 20 months on me.

Speaker 2 And a lot of that went through the world of Tony Robbins. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the challenge with those activities, I think, and I've worked a lot on this and and it still keeps showing up is that I have a strong need for certainty

Speaker 2 and so my desire to

Speaker 2 and and I and I'm aware of this you know up here my desire to go into areas with that are uncertain in doing things like lead gen like dropping a thousand bucks on ads which I did I dropped several thousand dollars on ads in January and and it didn't pay off because I didn't have the right offer you know but waiting out into January dropped several thousand you said okay so first of all never go and just drop several thousand okay always start and test always always be really low

Speaker 3 that's what I did but it was it was December what and January over the course so you let it test too long yeah I let it test too long let me jump in here because when you start talking about this I have all kinds of thoughts so when you say certainty You've got to realize where you're wanting certainty.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Right now, your certainty, you know the results you get. They're not the results you want, but you know how to get the results you're getting.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 3 So you're certain in getting below par results.

Speaker 1 Right?

Speaker 3 Now, if you truly think of what you want,

Speaker 3 what is that?

Speaker 3 What do you want certainty in?

Speaker 2 I would like to be,

Speaker 2 I mean, I don't think the certainty is the thing at that point. Like, I would be uncertain, but what I want to do is go get results, any result that I want.

Speaker 3 Yeah, be more specific. What result?

Speaker 2 For my business growth.

Speaker 3 Personal.

Speaker 1 Personal. Personal.

Speaker 3 Well, it'll come from your business, right? But what's your personal goal?

Speaker 2 I want to be

Speaker 2 a highly successful business owner.

Speaker 3 Okay, so that's making $50,000 a year.

Speaker 2 No. How much is that? It's

Speaker 2 a $100 million valuation business. Okay.
By 2029.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 3 So if you want certainty,

Speaker 3 a certainty is if you keep doing what you're doing, you will never get there.

Speaker 1 Right. Right?

Speaker 3 So you've got to figure out how to change your focus on what you're certain in. Because I've gone through some of my Tony Robbins stuff, right? And a lot of times it's pain or pleasure, right?

Speaker 3 So certainty gives you pain or gives you pleasure. And you've got to shift it.

Speaker 3 But a lot of times the pain's not painful enough so you keep going back to that and so you got to realize like where does this lead you if you don't make the change like where where does this lead you where does it lead your family and your kids

Speaker 3 not good places and how much of that do you want to have how much pain do you want to continue bringing into your life none none

Speaker 3 And so the question is, is what can be a plan, which I think Chris is getting to, what can be a plan that you are certain in that'll change that but give you what you want?

Speaker 3 And going back to

Speaker 3 some of the principles that we teach is having a vision that you believe in

Speaker 3 is certainty. It's just we're not taught how to use it in that way.

Speaker 3 Doesn't mean you know every step, but you know the outcome.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, I mean, it's great and grand to say, hey,

Speaker 1 I want a $100 million business. But if you don't have a roadmap to be able to get there, like you've got to you've got to be able to get there.
Yeah, and so there's,

Speaker 1 there's only one way that you can build a hundred million dollar business. It's with a team.

Speaker 1 And the only way you can afford to hire a team is you have to have a sales and marketing process that works. Yeah.
Right. Like that's, that's it.
And the only way like you get a sales and processing,

Speaker 1 a marketing and sales process that works is you've got to spend time, energy, and money on those things. Right.

Speaker 1 And so like first like game plan is to be like sales and marketing.

Speaker 1 that's it like that's that's got to be your focus there's there's nothing else like it I don't care how cool you're like you you want your team to look or whatever else like number one has to be a sales in sales and marketing game plan and I think you've got to specify RGAs right what are the revenue drivers in sales and marketing Because I think there's a lot of stuff you can do in marketing that's not going to produce any revenue.

Speaker 1 So yeah, let's break this down.

Speaker 1 so we're going to say daily so how much time are you going to commit to revenue generating activities every day well you're saying it should be 50 of the time so it should be four hours i have a question but but let's let's keep going it's probably better for a minute so yeah and let me just point out your your numbers aren't enough you're telling me half your day is four hours that means eight hours a day that's not 60 hours a week oh

Speaker 1 okay

Speaker 1 but uh but uh

Speaker 1 we'll just point that out there. Okay, so you're going to say you're going to do four hours a day of revenue generating activities.
Okay, so four hours a day

Speaker 1 RGAs. Okay.

Speaker 1 Once you have something that's scalable, meaning that you're starting to generate, you need to hire salespeople.

Speaker 1 And then once you generate enough revenue, you need to attract other talent.

Speaker 1 And the way that you're going to do all these things is like what Daryl's talking about. You have to have a vision and direction.

Speaker 1 Like you have to, and certainty is more in yourself than in what your offer is, right? Certain that you're going to do whatever it takes to make sure this thing is successful, right?

Speaker 1 Like for me, I'm a very certain person. The reason I'm certain is because I don't lie to myself.
Right. When I say I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 5 a.m., I'm going to wake up tomorrow at 5 a.m.

Speaker 1 And the way that you build more confidence and certainty is just not, is those little things of not lying. Like if I say, all right, I'm getting up every day at 5 a.m.
Every time I get up at 5 a.m.,

Speaker 1 it reestablishes, I am, I am what I say I am. Therefore, I will do what I say I'm going to do.
And I'm going to, I'm going to be that, right? Like that's how you make little wins.

Speaker 1 Like, hey, I'm going to do 10 push-ups. I do 10 push-ups.
Then, like, it's just those little things that build up the confidence over time. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 And, and then what, when I say I'm going to work four hours a day on RGAs, I work four hours a day on RGAs. And the second that I don't, I have to audibly say I screwed up, right?

Speaker 1 Because what most people do when they start screwing up is they ignore it and act like it never happened.

Speaker 1 The day I didn't wake up at 5 a.m., I don't admit it to myself that I screwed up. So I got to go and look at myself in the mirror and be like, you didn't wake up at 5 a.m.

Speaker 1 Tomorrow we're going to get this thing figured out and we're going to get back on track.

Speaker 3 The other easy thing to do is just not tell yourself any of those things. So it doesn't matter what time you wake up.
Going back to what Chris is saying, you got to be specific in your vision.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm good at that in a lot of areas of life.

Speaker 2 It's in those things

Speaker 2 where I don't have a lot of certainty. And

Speaker 2 this is where the question came in.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 what I have found, and I wonder, I'm curious how you did this in in your business.

Speaker 2 So I could say, I'm going to go do four RGAs, four hours of RGAs every day.

Speaker 2 And what I will do, just knowing myself and my habits and the way I operate, I'm going to go get, within two weeks, I'll be in a pretty deep rut of, all right, I've got a routine.

Speaker 2 I'm doing my four hours of RGAs a day.

Speaker 1 It's not working,

Speaker 2 but... I'm doing it and I'm comfortable with it now.
I'm certain in this thing I can go do these four hours.

Speaker 1 We're talking about revenue generating activities, not activities that I think might generate revenue. Okay.

Speaker 1 So if it's not working, change it. Do something different that generates revenue.
Because I guarantee you, if you are doing things that actually generate revenue, you're not going to get in a rut.

Speaker 1 Right. And so we're not telling you a specific way to go do that.
We're saying go and work and try and figure out until something works. Right.

Speaker 1 And there's a million different ways that you you can market yeah a million so go figure out which ones work and fail and try again and fail and try again and fail and try again until you find something that is a vein that works and then do it again and then I mean that's that's all success is it's crawling, falling, crawling, falling, take a step, fall, take a step, fall, start to walk, fall, take a start to walk, fall, start to run.

Speaker 1 Like that, that's all success is.

Speaker 1 But it won't be if you continue to try to crawl. Right? Like you have to continue to try the next step, the next thing that's going to be able to generate that success.

Speaker 3 And I think one of the powerful tools that you might need is a partner. It sounds like you get caught up in your own head and then you go aimlessly in a different direction.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Well, in that same direction. So I'm thinking back to the time where I was doing all that DMing, right? Like I would do this process and I'm on this precipice, like, should I change it?

Speaker 2 It's not working, or have I just not done it long enough?

Speaker 2 And,

Speaker 2 you know, I can feel good about doing it at the end of the day. Like, I did it.
I said I was going to do it and I did it.

Speaker 1 Was it getting any results? No. If it wasn't getting results, then it wasn't working.

Speaker 2 But I would expect pretty low conversion rates on that, right? So like, I mean, I don't know how.

Speaker 1 Did you have any conversions?

Speaker 2 I had several conversations,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 no sales okay so I think two is you're trying to say okay I'll do this that didn't work I'll do this you need to do 10 things at once okay you need to do this this this you need massive like massive action and and frankly I think you're probably not working 60 hours a week and you probably need to work more right like like until this thing launches so like when we launched soul gen

Speaker 1 Eight hours a day, my day was dedicated towards working in the office, setting up, working working on the business and then I spent every evening in customers homes closing deals every evening I was working 12 to 14 hours a day six days a week until that thing got off the ground right like you're probably just not taking enough action And the action that you're taking is just busy work to tell yourself that you're taking the action.

Speaker 1 Like, because there's a lot of people that do that, right? Like, we want to lie to ourselves, like, well, I'm working and it's just not working. No, bullcrap, you're not working.

Speaker 1 You're just, you're, you're not even like, like

Speaker 1 mentally there, right? You're just there hitting DMs and expecting different results.

Speaker 3 It's it's usually you're finding an activity that keeps you busy so you don't have to do the other activity. Right.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so that's where, like, if you can't hold yourself accountable to that, that's where you get a partner involved.

Speaker 3 A partner that can compliment you, has at least an I, you can have a DI, ISC, whatever it may be,

Speaker 3 probably someone who's more dialed in on the marketing lead gen side. And this is where you say, hey, I'm going to do this, hold me accountable to it.
And there can be a lot of power in that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a ton of power in partners. And there's a variety of ways that you can get partners.
You can either have an equity partner, you can hire a consultant, you can hire a coach, right?

Speaker 1 Like these are all different ways.

Speaker 1 For us, we've always preferred the partner approach that we can be able to like bounce things off of each other. And,

Speaker 1 you know, even when I'm not 100% certain, there's like different certainties and different ways. But yeah, there's a big balance in

Speaker 1 abilities and character and everything else that's going into it. But then on top of that, it's paying to be in the right rooms.
Right. And now I get that you can't afford you.

Speaker 1 uh to to be in the right room right now but like

Speaker 1 you should be doing everything you can to make additional money so that you can pay like there's two things that I would recommend to any person once they started generating a profit one you got to do all the action possible to be able to start generating a profit and then once you start have profits there's two things that you invest in one is more marketing more paid marketing because all none none of it should be going into your pocket it should all be going into building your business and two is paying to be in the right rooms and you know you've done some of this obviously you had some tony robbins and whatnot but like, dude, like, that's, that's where you've got to be.

Speaker 3 What do you think? Yeah, what are you hearing?

Speaker 1 You're right.

Speaker 1 So what are you committed to doing?

Speaker 2 I'm committed to creating that space of time for doing revenue generating activities. The way you talk about that, to me, like the words are being more resourceful.

Speaker 2 I've got to find the ways that are going to work. in my business, in my market.
And

Speaker 2 it's not doing it for a month and then looking at results. It's every single day,

Speaker 2 you know, where's the money today? Where could I get money today?

Speaker 3 It's a scientific approach. You test, you measure.
Test, you measure. You test, you measure.
You're not getting a result. You need to do a new test, a new structure, a new program, a new opportunity.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So you're committed to doing those RGAs? What else?

Speaker 2 I'm committed to doing the RGAs. I'm committed to...
What else do we talk about?

Speaker 3 We talked about partners, we talked about lead gen, talked about standardizing your offer.

Speaker 1 Hiring salespeople, standardizing your offer.

Speaker 2 Which is, yeah.

Speaker 1 Simplifying your offer.

Speaker 2 That's already, yeah, that's already a work in progress. I will continue to do that.
Salespeople, I think, will... I think I'll try to go the...

Speaker 3 How do you know you'll have the right offer?

Speaker 2 When it's a no-brainer for my market.

Speaker 3 I think one thing I'd do is I'd reach out to people that are potential clients, say, hey, can I run something by you?

Speaker 3 I'm trying to set this up, structure the right way.

Speaker 3 Would you be interested in something like this? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or if you were in my position, how would you structure this offer?

Speaker 3 Get market feedback.

Speaker 3 People will give it to you. If you reach out to the right people in the right way, like

Speaker 3 there's so much information, so much value in what people are experiencing, and most people will share that pretty freely.

Speaker 3 And if they won't, they're usually the type of person you don't want to hear from anyway.

Speaker 1 All right. All right.
Well, Andrew, we appreciate you coming in, making the trip up from Utah, coming to the studio.

Speaker 1 Hopefully what we've been able to provide has been of value and that you have a strong game plan forward.

Speaker 1 And, you know, the biggest thing is just realize, you know, you talked about things that work like in your fitness and everything else. Like these same principles apply in business.

Speaker 1 You just got to do it. Like you know it works in fitness.
You just got to work until you know it works in business, right?

Speaker 1 And so, uh, like that's that's really the key in allowing you know the same principles to impact the side of the business. So,

Speaker 1 appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us on the show.
Yep, thanks. Thank you.