#125: Scaling Fails: How Financial Blind Spots Cost Him Big

Speaker 1 I took too long to make the decisions that I know I needed to do. Yep.
It's because I kept thinking like, it doesn't matter. Like we're growing, right?

Speaker 1 The revenue's, you know, increasing, but it doesn't work like that. Like you can grow, grow.

Speaker 1 Are you struggling to scale to the next level? In this episode, we are with Mr. Ulysses.

Speaker 1 This guy has been just an absolute PR savant, been with, worked with so many of the big names, and he breaks down and gets super vulnerable where we talk about his financial situation, what's working, what's not working, how we break it out from a break-even analysis.

Speaker 1 Last year, he scaled too fast, too quick, and left to just like some terrible feelings of fear and everything else.

Speaker 1 And so he's retracted and how we have worked through in this episode to get him to the point where he's going to take the next level of risk, pull some levers, make it happen on this episode.

Speaker 1 Elysees, dude. So what's going on right now? Give Give us like up to date.

Speaker 1 You've been running this PR firm for how many years now? Like seven. Seven.
Yeah. Yeah, dude.
I mean, you've gotten in with some pretty big names, right? Yeah. Give me some examples.

Speaker 1 Recently, we're working with Cody Sanchez. So she just...
Cody's cool. Yeah, she invested into like Resi Brands.
So we did the PR for that.

Speaker 1 And then she has another business that's coming out like this week. Didn't she do like Pinky something?

Speaker 1 It was like a

Speaker 1 window washing company or something. That's the one.

Speaker 1 Resi Brands is like, yeah, they have a franchise of like this window uh like this window cleaning and it's like it's a bunch of home service like uh type businesses yeah yeah i mean we we know a few things about home services a lot of things yeah that's that's good that's good so you're working with cody what what else you got going on um we did work with brandon dawson um you know gary breca things like that so i think like that's like the the the big stuff um you know for the people that we work with but yeah for a long time it's just been pr is kind of honing that in um and been doing it for a long time at first we're doing it for the wrong reasons got a slap on the wrist uh you know which i was grateful for because what were the wrong reasons the wrong reasons i wanted to make a lot of money i wanted to be famous um and that was like the easiest way to make money at the time for me because i did websites before that but the thing with websites like i mean somebody doesn't like the font the the the color the size of something it's like you gotta you know edit that um for like a little bit of money and for pr it's like i mean if you want to get introduced to somebody else it's like the easiest money i can do just email introduction and like i'm done you know like the service is is there so so let me just ask you clarify what is pr like what what value are you giving to these customers so it depends like for the higher people um it's more so connections right um because they can get it themselves but it's just speed for them um and then for people that are not like a cody sanchez um it's more so exposure because for them it's like getting on podcasts like this or speaking on stage like any one of those things could lead to a sale or could lead to business that they didn't have access to before.

Speaker 1 So different things for different people. But primarily, what we do is we help people get booked on stages, get them booked for podcasts, articles and publications, and then TV.

Speaker 1 Like, that's pretty much it. Love it.
Love it. Love it.
So

Speaker 1 let's break down like what. So you've been doing this business six, seven years.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 Initially, you say you did for the wrong reasons. Like, what are the right reasons? The right reasons is like to grow a a business and for me it's to have this be the vehicle for my life.

Speaker 1 Before that it was my life. So like now that I'm a dad I don't care too much about like you know speaking on stage or the limelight anymore.
I used to like only care about getting women

Speaker 1 you know smoking drinking like and all that cool stuff officially.

Speaker 1 But now I don't I don't see it like that. And now my like my clients represent something different than who I was like representing before.

Speaker 2 I can always remember you sharing us, this was what, six years ago, last time we met? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you were talking about how when you were

Speaker 2 wanting to

Speaker 2 find women, you threw out ads. Yeah, yeah.
And I would just target.

Speaker 1 That's crazy that you remember that, dude. Oh, yeah, that's crazy.
Dude, I remember that.

Speaker 1 It was like Instagram ads. Like, look at this guy.
He just made this much money or whatever else.

Speaker 2 But you were able to target the crowd you wanted to date.

Speaker 1 That's so embarrassing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yep. Yep.

Speaker 2 I mean, to me, it's like, that's pretty brilliant. You used your skills to like.

Speaker 1 I want to do it, but hey, get you.

Speaker 1 It's fascinating.

Speaker 2 I was pretty busted.

Speaker 1 I got a lot of DMs when I did that.

Speaker 2 That's awesome.

Speaker 1 You're how old now? I'm 27. 27 years old.
You know, it's funny. When I was 27 years old, right before my 27th birthday, I was filing bankruptcy, right? $2.2 million.

Speaker 1 So it was like filed in January, turned 27. So like you're in my life, like if I'm comparing myself against Ulysses, it's like, man, you're just still starting out, right? So, so like,

Speaker 1 you've got a, you got a head start on us. Oh, dude, I want to have you up.

Speaker 1 You guys, yeah, you guys have crushed it since then. Since the last time we spoke, I mean, you guys were already crushing it when I first met you guys.

Speaker 1 But I mean, from what you guys did in six years is, is, is not something that like most people accomplish when, even if they get a head start, you know? Right. So, well, you know, it's

Speaker 1 as we talk about, right, like the whole premise of our show is that success is a trajectory, right?

Speaker 1 Like as long as you're on the trajectory, you know, hopefully you can change the trajectory and go a little bit faster or whatnot. But as long as you're there figuring out where the next level is.

Speaker 1 So for you right now, like what are the struggles? What,

Speaker 1 so you've been in business six years. Can you give us like a brief, like what has the revenue been in this business over the last six years? Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I know my first year, my first year was like 200,000. Cool.

Speaker 1 And then from then on, it's like plateaued and then, or it stayed around like it grew. But then last year, we did 1.1.

Speaker 1 So we did pretty well. But, you know, I didn't understand salary cap.
I didn't understand margins. So I was growing broke last year.

Speaker 1 I made a ton of money.

Speaker 1 But the good thing is, like, my tax bill is not going to be that high. So, but everything else was not that great.
So

Speaker 1 give me a little more detail. So you did 1.1 million.
What kind of expenses did you have associated with that?

Speaker 1 So the issue was like a quarter of our business came from referrals and I was giving out like high referral bonuses. Yeah.
Like affiliate commissions. Yeah.
Like it was 30%.

Speaker 1 And then I was giving high

Speaker 1 like commissions to our sales reps. It's like, you know, he was helping us a lot.
So I was like, all right, I'm going to give you 20%.

Speaker 1 Right off the gate, it's like 50% out the back, you know, just straight from there. It doesn't, there's no cost of goods associated with that.
There's no, you know, nothing.

Speaker 1 Because it's all info, right? It's relationships, information. Well, we still have to, we do have to pay for a lot of cost of goods.
So I do a lot of paid placements as well. Oh, you do? Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 the margins were like minimum, you know?

Speaker 1 And then when you have a lot of clientele, you still got to pay for payroll and you know, they don't like just off-board, you know, so it's like you got to continue hiring.

Speaker 1 And anyways, structurally and operationally, I wasn't doing a great job. We were crushing it on the PR side.
You know, thankfully, that's why we continue to get a lot of business.

Speaker 1 But I had a course correct a lot this year. So this year, we're doing pretty similar numbers.
Like I know the last three months, we probably won't hit a million.

Speaker 1 We'll probably hit like 600, 700 maybe.

Speaker 1 I mean, but the margins are a lot higher. Like I've been paying off a lot of debt from like last year.
So like I'm averaging like 10 to 12,000 a month that I'm paying off in debt.

Speaker 1 So like, but that means

Speaker 1 a tough, tough lesson to learn. Yeah, yeah.
And the thing is, it took me too long to learn. It sucked because when things were not going good,

Speaker 1 when we're making, you know, 80 grand or whatever,

Speaker 1 like last year, each month, when things are not going good,

Speaker 1 you can't just like fire the people that you currently have. You still got to have them.
So it's like, if you have a bad month or whatever, it doesn't necessarily matter.

Speaker 1 Like it just comes straight out of the bank.

Speaker 1 And I took too long to make the decisions that I know I needed to do. It's because I kept thinking like, that doesn't matter.
Like we're growing, right? The revenue's, you know, increasing,

Speaker 1 but it doesn't work like that. Like you can grow, grow.

Speaker 2 It's, yeah, there's, there's actually quite a few people we come across who are like, they made a ton of money when they were small, and then they're four or five times the size. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they're broke. Yeah.
Making less money. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Making a lot less money. So I think with us, it's interesting because we had significant growth really quickly.
And so a lot of those issues that you come across.

Speaker 2 They hit us pretty fast and we had to adjust quickly. So we were able to learn without like

Speaker 2 the consequences.

Speaker 2 But it's something that we teach a lot of people is just how like you have to look at your business like five years in the future, if it's beyond what you expect, how would you set it up today so that it can accomplish what you need today and what you need in the future.

Speaker 2 And that's a hard, it's a hard thing to go through, but it's the most powerful exercise for a business that goes through growth.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, frankly, I mean, revenue growth is like

Speaker 1 only one indication of how well the business is doing. And usually it doesn't say any like you can have 100 million in revenue and 110 million in expenses and you lost 10 million bucks, right?

Speaker 1 Like, so it really doesn't matter, right? Like revenue, revenue at the end of the day doesn't matter. It's how much you put in the bank.

Speaker 1 But I think where a lot of people get it wrong, which you kind of brought up, is like they don't build to scale, right?

Speaker 1 Like they don't, they don't look at it from a standpoint of percentage of revenue that's associated, right?

Speaker 1 So like what you brought in, it brought up was like, hey, I still have these employees and I got to pay them whether it's a good or bad month. And from a business standpoint is,

Speaker 1 okay, I got to understand my fixed costs, right? Fixed costs are

Speaker 1 there regardless. Yeah.
And you got to be very meticulous when you bring on a fixed cost. Like you got to understand the risk associated with every fixed cost that you bring on.

Speaker 1 Because when you hire an employee, it's like signing a lease. Basically, yeah.
Right. Right.
I am, I am paying, and it's a minimum lease, right?

Speaker 1 Like, there's a good chance that you're going to have to give them a raise and you're going to, there are going to be other costs associated with this person, right?

Speaker 1 You're going to have to pay for occasional meals and benefits and everything else. Right.
And so, like, that fixed cost, right?

Speaker 1 The thing that we always talk about is a break-even analysis. Have you ran a break-even analysis on your business? I think we did so earlier in the year because we needed to.
Yep.

Speaker 1 So, yes, but I don't know off the top of my head. Okay.
So first of all, what is an average customer worth to you? Like $1,500, $25,000. $1,500 to $25,000? Yes.
Okay. That's a big range.
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 It's because, yeah, well, it'll probably be on the $15,000 side. Okay.
So that, first of all, that's an important thing to understand, right?

Speaker 1 Like, you don't want to, you need to know this is my average customer. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, if my average customer is 15, sure, you can make a 25,000, but you can also probably make a $5,000 or or $10,000 customer. Do you have those type of packages?

Speaker 1 Not on the $5,000 or $10,000 side. So it's like $15 is our lowest.
15 is your minimum. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 if I'm looking at your business, I'd probably be analyzing it from just straight 15 and anything above that is butter. Okay.
Like just so like fixed costs at 15. Is that what you're saying? Well, no.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 let me let me back into this. So 15 grand.
What cost of goods do you, if you bring on a $15,000 customer,

Speaker 1 not talking about your employees, anything else, what is your cost of goods to fulfill on $15,000? It's like $4,000. $4,000.
Yeah, now it is. Think of it.
Okay. Okay.
So $4,000, that's,

Speaker 1 what's the breakdown on that $4,000?

Speaker 1 So it'll be like TV spots, so we pay for TV. TV spots?

Speaker 1 Paid placements, paid article placements,

Speaker 1 and then any like barters that we end up doing that we have to pay fulfillment costs for. Okay.
So do you do you understand

Speaker 1 gross margin?

Speaker 1 No. Okay.
This is great.

Speaker 1 This is exactly

Speaker 1 why we want to break this down. Okay.
So gross margin is the amount of money you make before you pay your fixed costs. Okay.
Okay. Yeah.
So

Speaker 1 when you break this down, if you're getting $15,000,

Speaker 1 your gross margin per deal is $11,000.

Speaker 1 Okay. Or essentially about 70% is what that 11 out of 15 would be about 70%.

Speaker 1 So if you're operating on a 70% gross margin, then you need to look at that number and how that pays towards fixed costs.

Speaker 2 So, so, but you also, I'm not sure if you're accounting for like affiliate marketing.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah, yeah, that's

Speaker 1 we'll break that down as well. So, so that's your standard gross margin.
Now, are your costs of acquisition, like your affiliate marketing or sales, is it directly tied to getting that customer?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I have some. Yeah.
Okay. And it, but is it the same regardless? Is it always a percentage? No.
Okay. What's your average cost of acquisition?

Speaker 1 That I don't know. I can tell you how much I pay per month, but I don't know how much it is.
Okay. So let's talk about that.

Speaker 1 How much is that? So I pay, so based off of the software's software is probably around

Speaker 1 like maybe 600 bucks. Okay.
And then the VA that I have to run it is $2468 is like another $800. Okay.
So that's about it that I pay. So you pay $1,400 to acquire new customers every month?

Speaker 1 Yes. To acquire customers, yes.
And do you acquire about the same amount of customers? Yep. Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 how many customers with $1,400 are you able to acquire? Like four to four.

Speaker 1 Okay. Let's call it four.
Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 So if you're, you said we're $1,800 or sorry? $1,400. $1,400, sorry.
I'm jumping around numbers. $1,400 divided by $4,

Speaker 1 which would be $350.

Speaker 1 Okay. So that would be what you'd call your cost of acquisition.
Okay. Got it.
So it's directly attributed to like, this is how much I spend. And it's pretty steady that way.
It is.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So if you went and you spent $2,800 and maybe you duplicated exactly what you're doing, would you be able to bring in eight customers?

Speaker 1 I don't know because it's not paid advertising. It's like cold, like LinkedIn outreach.
Okay. So unless I double maybe the accounts or something.

Speaker 1 But what they're doing is very measurable, right? They're doing a certain amount of cold outreaches, which gives a certain amount of leads, which gives a certain amount of.

Speaker 1 So it probably scales. Probably.
I mean, that would be safe to say. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 to Daryl's point,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 do you understand a P ⁇ L at all?

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 1 we have to to do them, but not really in depth. And that's what we're trying to help with.
Yeah. This is good.
Because I would say most business owners are exactly where you're at.

Speaker 1 They account based on how much money's in the bank account.

Speaker 1 And then they'll look at balance sheets or whatever else afterwards and be like, yeah, I guess I kind of understand this.

Speaker 1 So on a typical PL, you have your revenue at top.

Speaker 1 You minus your cost of goods sold, and that gives you a gross margin.

Speaker 1 So $15,000, we're breaking this down by one account. 15,000 minus 4,000 gives me 11,000 margin.

Speaker 1 Now, if you can directly tie your sales and marketing to like, hey,

Speaker 1 if I continue to scale this up, it's going to always be 350 bucks, then you're going to also add that in and say, this is what I call my CEO gross margin.

Speaker 1 And so what I would look at is your gross margin is grand minus 350.

Speaker 1 You're going to be at $10,650

Speaker 1 gross margin. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 That,

Speaker 1 and now from there, we're going to go and we're going to apply it towards our break-even. What are your fixed costs?

Speaker 1 What do you spend money on no matter what, whether you get clients or not? So payroll?

Speaker 1 Payroll? Yeah, what does that look like? Payroll is like $1,600 a week. So I don't know know what that is.
Okay. So $1,600 a week, that would be $64.

Speaker 1 It would be about $7,000 a month. Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
That's just payroll. And then subscriptions, it's like another $2,000, $3,000.
Okay. Let's call...
That's a big range.

Speaker 1 I think it's like closer to like $2,500. Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 this is good because I think for anybody that's watching this show, like, or listening to this podcast, like

Speaker 1 you need to understand these things meticulously. Yeah.
Right. Because when you say, oh, it's two to three thousand, the difference between two and three thousand is fifty percent.
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 Like, like, that is that is a big range. We're not saying ninety nine or a hundred thousand.
We're saying two to three thousand. That it's a big jump.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So, like, understanding that, let's let's call it twenty five hundred. Yeah.
Okay. So I got seven thousand fixed payroll, twenty five hundred in subscriptions.
That's ninety five hundred.

Speaker 1 What else you got? Um

Speaker 1 do any leases business wise got leases got payments that i rent but that's not that's not part yeah that's um

Speaker 1 so i'm pretty sure i have something insurance business i do pay insurance yep i pay admin anything else that's yeah three hundred dollars uh bookkeeping bookkeeping yep 350 yeah okay damn i should have been prepared for this no this is good this is good this is good um yeah it's all bookkeeping i pay for 350 and then insurance i pay for

Speaker 1 $300. Yep, $300.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Okay. So look, this is what we're going to do.
We're going to break out our calculators. Okay.
So I have

Speaker 1 $7,000 a month

Speaker 1 on payroll. Yeah.
Plus $2,500 in subscriptions, software, different things like that, plus $650 for insurance and bookkeeping. Yep.
What else we got?

Speaker 1 Taxes. Nope.
So taxes, don't worry about taxes. Taxes are what you pay, unless B ⁇ O taxes.
Do you pay B ⁇ O taxes? I'm not sure what that is.

Speaker 1 Okay, B ⁇ O taxes is like here in the state of Washington is like a percentage of your revenue. It's usually like 1%.

Speaker 1 Sales tax? No.

Speaker 1 Nope.

Speaker 1 Do you have any payroll taxes or anything associated? No. Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. So let's just say that's everything.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So we're at, for those that are looking on the cameras, we're at 10,150.

Speaker 1 What was our, do you remember what our gross margin was? 11,000. Okay.
So it was, yeah, it was 11,000 minus, what did we say, 350 of acquisition? 750. So 10,650.
So what does that mean?

Speaker 1 What does it take to break even in your business? One client. One client.
Okay. Yeah.
So, and what that means is every additional client is worth how much to you?

Speaker 1 $10,650. $10,650.
Exactly. So, and this is a very simplified version for, there's a lot more complex businesses out there, right? Like, like that require more than one client to break even.

Speaker 1 Like, first of all, congratulations to be able to set it up where it's that simple, right? It's probably works great for a lifestyle business and everything else. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 You know, when, like, for example, when we're running our solar business, there was a point in time where, okay, it took 65 clients or installs to be able to break break even.

Speaker 1 And then our break even as we added fixed costs, it became 100. And then we break it.

Speaker 1 And so, but what's so important as a business owner is that you always are tracking that break-even analysis because

Speaker 1 now I know that is the point that I have to get to every single month, regardless. Like that is my,

Speaker 1 you know, die. But then I can make better decisions based on acquiring these new customers.
Right.

Speaker 1 And what I mean by better decisions, so what is your, what is your average, you're acquiring how many customers a month right now? Like four.

Speaker 1 I mean, I want to say I want to give a range, but let's just go. Let's go with four.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 So based on our break-even analysis, how much profit should you be making on four customers? I should be making $10,650 times three.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Okay.
So now we're on the same page, right? So now we're at $32,000 in profit. Okay.

Speaker 1 now here's the question does your current staff your fixed costs right

Speaker 1 your capital expenditures down there whether you have an office space or support staff or whatnot can they handle more than four clients a month yep how much what is your maximum capacity that that current staff can can uh

Speaker 1 So I know one client manager can handle 10 accounts. Okay.

Speaker 1 So I

Speaker 1 won't, I don't need to, and right now, because we have an overload from last year, we have about four client managers.

Speaker 1 Oh, so yeah, well, yeah, we had a lot because we made a lot of money last year, but I mean, yeah, so it took a time, took some time, but okay, yeah. So, okay, if I'm hearing you right,

Speaker 1 every every client manager can handle up to 10 accounts a month. Yep, that's right, yep, and you have four client managers.
Yep, okay, so what's your maximum capacity?

Speaker 1 I don't know, okay,

Speaker 1 four times

Speaker 1 40, 10, yep, Exactly. Okay.
So now

Speaker 1 let's look at this. I have 40.
I have 40

Speaker 1 capacity. And what's your current, how much of the capacity are you using?

Speaker 1 We're using, I think, all of it right now. How are you using all of it?

Speaker 1 Because we still have clients from last year. Okay.
Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 So you have 40 clients? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So 40 or a little bit more. So you don't have, because this is where I'm trying to get to.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So right now you're bringing on four clients. Right.
Okay. Yep.
How long does a client stay on with you when you acquire a customer? It depends what package, but it could be

Speaker 1 a month.

Speaker 1 Okay. How much is a $15,000 package? They'll stay with us for like 60 to 90 days.
Okay. So they're with you for 90 days.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 over

Speaker 1 three months, that would be 12 clients. Okay.
Yep. So, and one of those one of those people, could they manage all 12 of those new clients or would you need one and a half of those people?

Speaker 1 They could manage those 12, but probably not with like the best quality. Right.

Speaker 1 So, what I, what I'm trying to get back here, so clearly, you're doing some like, some previous work or whatever else, but

Speaker 1 what you have to look at is, okay, what are my fixed costs capable of doing? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 If, if they're able to do 40 customers at once and a client stays on for three months, you want to take the 40 and you want to divide it by three, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's, so that's kind of your maximum capacity that you can bring on every single month. Okay, that makes sense.
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Okay, because if they're staying on 90 days,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 1 And so I bring that down so I can acquire 13 new customers a month.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 if your people aren't able to do that right now, one, maybe their capacity isn't 10 or two, they're not performing properly. Yeah.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or maybe you have like this customer issue or whatever, but you got to get that cleaned up. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, is uh, because part of like, so our, the, the way that we like work is we normally work Mondays through Thursdays. Yep.
And we only work five hours a day. Okay.
So it's like 7 a.m. to noon.

Speaker 1 Okay. And like that's it.
If they had a full, you know, eight hours, we definitely could, but I'm assuming that could be part of the reason why is like limited time.

Speaker 1 Uh, because they also don't do anything Fridays.

Speaker 2 Okay. Are you paying them full time?

Speaker 1 Um, no, these are a lot of these. So I pay people from Poland and I also pay people overseas.

Speaker 1 And a lot of our stuff is like, I mean, by now, six, eight years, like, you know, we have our SOPs down already. So.
Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So if, so right now you would say you're netting about $32,000 a month. And that does sound accurate because I'm on debt that I'm paying off from last year.
Right. It's like 10 grand.
Right.

Speaker 1 And then I know I need like seven to 10 just to live.

Speaker 1 And then, yeah. So it does sound about right.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay. So we're, we're in the, we're in the right numbers.
Okay. So

Speaker 1 what you have to look at is like, if my current team has capacity to do 13 and I'm only doing four,

Speaker 1 you have to scale to hit capacity, right? And

Speaker 1 based on what you're telling me,

Speaker 1 you could go, because each of these virtual assistants, they're about 200 a month? No,

Speaker 1 I wish.

Speaker 1 No, I'm saying the people that are doing the LinkedIn. Oh, yes.

Speaker 1 they're $800 a month. So I pay them $200 a week.
Okay. Yep.
And I only have one guy doing that because a lot of it is automated. Right.
So he's doing, he's $800 a month.

Speaker 1 And then what was the other $600 associated with that? It's like the software associated with that. Okay.

Speaker 1 Is that software, would you need to buy another $600 software to be able to add one more person? Yeah. Okay.
So it's going to cost you $1,400 to be able to get four more clients. Yeah.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Makes sense. Based off of what I'm hearing, you should be spending $2,800 more dollars a month on two more assistants and two more software packages.
To hit capacity. To hit capacity.

Speaker 1 And so what that's going to do for you is this.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 it's not going to increase your fixed costs at all. Right.
Right.

Speaker 1 And it's also.

Speaker 1 not going to reduce your margin at all. That's true.
And because you're, because that cost is associated with acquiring a customer. Yep.
Right. So it's going to, it's going to yield.

Speaker 1 Now, fixed costs, you always got to look at like fixed cost doesn't give me a return, but it takes care of the return I'm already getting. Yeah.
Does that make sense? Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 For variable costs, stuff that's associated with acquiring a customer, cost of goods sold, right? Like that you really only pay if you get something in return.

Speaker 1 And if you're not getting something in return, you got to cut it quick. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 i'm what i'm hearing is if you hired two more

Speaker 1 uh two more virtual assistants plus the software you'd spend twenty eight hundred dollars but you wouldn't even look at that as a line item on your expense because it's going to be associated with your cost of goods sold does that make sense yep okay you following me yep

Speaker 1 yep and you're going to get how many more clients i will get uh

Speaker 1 eight eight more clients yeah eight more clients a month yeah which would be how much money?

Speaker 1 Fuck, I don't know. I'm not taxing.
No, come on. Let's go back to how what's our gross margin? It's $11,000.
No, $10,650. $10,650 times

Speaker 1 eight. Times eight.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, dude, think about this. Like, with

Speaker 1 the amount, like what your staff is already in place,

Speaker 1 going eight. times ten thousand six fifty,

Speaker 1 right? We're talking about an extra $85,000 net. Yeah, just if I focus on the marketing acquisition portion, right? That's it.
Yeah. Right? Because you already have the staff that can fulfill this.

Speaker 1 Right. You already have the process that this can get done.
Yeah. You already have like everything in place.

Speaker 1 This requires no more effort besides taking a little risk. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so, how much risk? How much risk are you taking to get this much?

Speaker 1 Like $2,800? $2,800. Yeah.
Would you spend twenty eight hundred dollars to get eighty five thousand dollars yeah yeah a month

Speaker 1 yep so so like this is like that's oh it went dark on me uh

Speaker 1 you know twenty twenty eight hundred bucks now here's the cool thing you don't even have to do that like go and add one more yeah and test it and test it yeah right like because like

Speaker 1 Too often, like business owners, they're so scared of risk and they don't even know what lever they're supposed supposed to pull yeah right because you're you're basing things off of like well last year i took i went too much action and it caused me to pay this much in debt yeah right is that those are the feelings 100 i'm like i'm like doing the complete opposite of what i did last year so tell me tell me the feelings that are going on in your brain that have caused you not to take more risk right now um what are the thoughts that go through

Speaker 1 Well, last year was very hectic. I didn't have a lot of time to myself and I didn't have a lot of time for like family.
So

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 I'm afraid if I do that again and I don't do it correctly, is the same thing's going to happen.

Speaker 1 And then I also have to like spend a year this year fixing what I did last year instead of like, you know, on the trajectory going upwards.

Speaker 1 So it's like, I just want like what I ideally, what I would like to do now is

Speaker 1 right now we're doing really great, like this entire year because I have margin finally. And it's like, all right, just work with this, you know,

Speaker 1 because I feel like finally it's like the the business model is kind of built better

Speaker 1 to sustain more of like my lifestyle. So it's like, I like that I only work five hours a day and then four days out of the week.
So I like that now, you know?

Speaker 1 So here's here's the cool thing, Ulysses, is like

Speaker 1 this would require no more work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, because

Speaker 1 if I'm understanding your business correctly, you're once you land a client, who's selling these clients?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 right now,

Speaker 1 we have one sale threat. Okay.

Speaker 1 Next week, we won't. It'll be me.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you're

Speaker 1 getting rid of your sales. Or more margin.
Yeah. You want more margin.
Yeah. Why? Because

Speaker 1 I already don't work a lot. Okay.
You know, so

Speaker 1 to get that extra 15, 20%,

Speaker 1 I think would be worth it. Okay.

Speaker 2 So you're, you're contradicting yourself, though, right? Because you're saying I like this lifestyle where I don't work a lot.

Speaker 2 Now you're saying, I don't work enough. I need to work more.

Speaker 2 So there's almost like a

Speaker 1 well, I feel like they don't work enough. They don't, but like we don't have that many calls to close four clients.
You know, it doesn't take that, like, that many. So

Speaker 1 opening up a few more hours in a day, I don't think, would.

Speaker 1 So what if,

Speaker 1 what if

Speaker 1 you were spending $2,800 more

Speaker 1 and you were getting enough leads to close

Speaker 1 200% more, right? Go from going from 4 to 12.

Speaker 2 You had to work another eight hours a week.

Speaker 1 You.

Speaker 1 But the sales rep, like, not you. Yeah.
You kept your sales rep on. Yeah.
And he went and did that, right?

Speaker 1 Would you, would that keep him busy? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So, so I just want to identify like the just like strategy strategy where flaw, right? Right.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 so I guess really understanding like what do you want at your business? You want time freedom. Yep.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Like peace overall. Yep.
That's probably the main thing. Yep.

Speaker 1 So usually that peace comes from time freedom and working on your business rather than in it. Yep.
Right. I'm sure you probably like the sales side too, right?

Speaker 1 It's fun to get on with clients and close deals or whatever else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But you probably wouldn't want to do that 10 hours a day, no, okay. Yeah, if it became 10 hours a day, 100%.

Speaker 1 Like, I would bring back a sales rep immediately, okay, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 So, can I give you some suggestions? 100%. All right,

Speaker 1 so what if instead of getting on the phone and being the sales rep again, right, you work on your business, you pull these levers that are going to help you get

Speaker 1 the additional clients that's going to keep that sales rep busy, which is going to in turn make you freer. Yeah, freer, right?

Speaker 1 But all your, you're still going to spend time working on the business. It's just not going to be on the phones with clients.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's going to be, okay, going and hiring a new sales rep or like figuring out a new acquisition strategy or, you know, making sure that you hire the right VA that's going to go and fulfill on this SOP to be able to go and do the cold reach outs on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1 And, right? Like, like you're just looking at it strategically, right?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 my question is

Speaker 1 who's who's coaching you on this right now?

Speaker 1 You

Speaker 1 well right now, yes, this is, but like in in in real life, or you no one, okay, no one, okay, yeah, I did have uh when I was struggling with the the finances thing, I did hire somebody to like just you know, consulting, be like, look, what the, like, what am I doing wrong, you know?

Speaker 1 Um, and I was like, there's just, yeah, I couldn't figure out how to profit from like the business that that I had.

Speaker 1 I mean, but once that got solved, thankfully, it's like, yeah, I'm in a good spot now. There's really not too many core things that I'm focusing on.
I also don't work too much in the business.

Speaker 1 Like I'm on those five hours, but I'm not directly communicating with clients.

Speaker 1 I'm really just managing the team that is doing it. But now you're getting rid of the sales rep, so you're getting ready to dive back in.
Yeah, yeah. And to speak to prospects.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which I think.

Speaker 1 If I'm in your shoes is a, you know, like, you don't want to do that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, not, not that you're you're not willing to get back in right like you should always be willing to get back in the game yeah like no no business owner should ever be high and uh you know haughty enough where he's not willing to make the sacrifices when necessary right right right

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 fundamentally

Speaker 1 dude you can keep the sales guy on just give him more opportunities yeah to be able to go and close and not only him more opportunities like figure out

Speaker 1 how you can take this thing dude you've got a a model that works. Like if I'm fundamentally looking at your model and knowing that I have a just on a per account gross margin of 10,650, okay?

Speaker 1 But it does sound like you're paying a commission on these deals too. No.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, with the sales route that I have, yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 But like, I don't have what I had last year where I was paying like 30, 50. What is your commission with your current sales rep?

Speaker 1 So it depends. If if they bring a client in it's 20.
if they don't bring a client in um it it ranges from like 10 to 15 percent okay okay so let's call it 15 yeah

Speaker 1 15 of 15 000 is how much

Speaker 1 like 1500 200 250. got it okay

Speaker 1 i'm not that good at math that's fine that's fine that's why i'm in this position it's like i wasn't good at math this year this is good so if if it's two thousand two hundred and fifty like because you really should be asking yourself yourself, how can I scale what I currently have, not get rid of sales reps and take more margin?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
Yeah. Because like taking more margin,

Speaker 1 like 100% of $1 is not a lot of money. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 How do you scale? How do you scale profits?

Speaker 1 How do I scale?

Speaker 1 Yes. And so now let's go back to our original math.
$10,650 is our gross margin, but now we're going to subtract what we're paying a sales rep. Okay.
Because fundamentally, you need a sales rep.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't be the sales guy. I got it.
All right.

Speaker 1 Let's not do that. That's a mistake.
Okay. So we're going to go $2,250.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 Now we're at $8,400.

Speaker 1 So what was our fixed cost again?

Speaker 1 Fixed costs.

Speaker 1 What's the nut we have to cover every single month?

Speaker 1 It was like $10,250.

Speaker 1 My question is. Oh, yeah.
It's a break-even. It was a break-even analysis.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Thank you. Do you have the sales commission in this?

Speaker 1 No, that's what we just took out. I just took out $250.
Now it is.

Speaker 1 Now it does.

Speaker 1 Now it does. And so now

Speaker 1 this is actually representative of your real gross margin.

Speaker 1 I know where your mind was. You're like, oh, I'm getting rid of him so I don't have to calculate that anymore.
Right, right. But let's not go there.
Let's go. Let's go here.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So I'm $8,400, $400, which means I need one and a quarter clients to break even. Yep.
Okay. So if I need one and a quarter clients to break even and I go and I sell 12 clients, okay?

Speaker 1 12 clients minus one and a quarter clients is how much?

Speaker 1 10. 10 and a half.
So 10 and three quarters.

Speaker 3 Okay.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to times that by my gross margin. Yeah.
Okay. Cause that's my, because what.
Because one and a quarter is to break even.

Speaker 1 10 and three quarters is to make money. So now my real, if I continue,

Speaker 1 so 10.75, if I continue

Speaker 1 to pay a sales rep and I max out everybody to their capacity, you're going to go from working in the business, making $33,000 to working on the business and making $90,000 every month.

Speaker 2 So now basically what's going on here, right? Chris is creating a formula to apply. Yeah.

Speaker 2 As you apply the formula, you're going to be like wait that didn't that didn't equate right and you'll start to tweak and you'll start to learn assumptions that you were making that aren't true right you also identify other opportunities that you didn't realize and so this is where when you can understand these numbers when we understood our numbers like and we knew how we could it was it was how high can we go yeah right and then that's where we could scale at 300

Speaker 2 and not be like not sink the ship yeah what people often do is they have some success and they're like, let's just scale this without knowing their numbers. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, now those numbers all change because they're not even aware of where they're at and they don't track them.

Speaker 1 And they don't track them.

Speaker 2 And so things start to get misaligned and you don't realize it till, hey, the money's gone. And then you get in the scarcity mindset of, oh, crap, I need to back up.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't want to lose my lifestyle.

Speaker 2 I liked having what I have.

Speaker 1 I got to pay all this debt back that I buried myself in a hole doing $1.1 million.

Speaker 2 So then you go back to retreat, right? And then you just stay hunkered down.

Speaker 2 And this is a very, very common thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that's where I'm at.

Speaker 1 And that's why I was thinking first is like, well, just make more margin. Cause if everything stays the same and I just make more margin, you know, then

Speaker 1 it's better than what I have now, you know? But that makes a lot of sense because I'm really only spending $2,800 to like test. And it doesn't even have to be $2,800.
It could be $1,400.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it could be $1,400.

Speaker 1 To add

Speaker 1 one more person. And so let's say that you decide to do that right you spend the 800 bucks plus the 600 in software yeah and it does

Speaker 1 contribute four more clients right

Speaker 1 how much is four more clients worth to you now uh 16 like 32 000 something yes exactly 8 400 times yeah times uh four yeah right yeah so it's 33 600 right so now you're like holy crap this works let's get one more on there let's get to max capacity Now, now here's where it gets fun.

Speaker 1 Okay. So now you get to max capacity, right? You have all your fixed costs being fully utilized, right?

Speaker 1 Your client managers, is that what you're calling them? Your client managers are fully utilized and everything else. And you're like,

Speaker 1 hey, let's grow this thing. What's it going to now? Once you're fully maxed out, what's it going to take to grow your business? I hire a new client manager.
Yes.

Speaker 1 So I hire a new client manager, which is capable of bringing on how many customers? I think he said 12, 13? So, no, 10, but 10 divided by, because a client stays on with how long? 90 days.

Speaker 1 So you got to divide it by 3.

Speaker 3 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 1 So one client manager

Speaker 1 can handle how many new clients a month?

Speaker 1 I don't know. 10 divided by 3.

Speaker 1 3.3. 3.3.
Yeah. Okay.
Now, here's, now what we've realized is there's a ratio. For every client man, a client manager can essentially do what an acquisition, your $800 acquisition, right?

Speaker 1 Because they're bringing off four a month, and this person can do about 3.3. Yeah.
Okay. So that's pretty dang close.

Speaker 1 Hopefully, you can increase the efficiency of a client manager where they can take on four new clients a month. Yeah.
Right. And so essentially manage 12 over a period of 90 days.
Okay. You follow me?

Speaker 1 Yep. Okay.
So if you can get that on a one-to-one ratio, then this becomes a very easy game.

Speaker 1 Literally is hire a client manager, go and get an acquisition person, spend the money, get the new clients, do it again.

Speaker 1 Now, along the way, you're going to max out this sales rep. He's going to be busy.
Right now, you've gone the opposite way.

Speaker 1 You've got it to where he's so not busy that you're considering letting him go and stepping in and doing the jobs yourself. Okay.

Speaker 1 So one day you're going to come, you're going to walk in, you're going to walk in and you're going to be like, dude, we had all these leads, and you didn't close all these deals.

Speaker 1 You're not being able to keep up. Oh, I need to go and hire another sales rep.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I got my client manager, I got my acquisition manager, and then once I maxed the sales rep out, I bring on another sales rep, which means I need to do another client manager, another acquisition manager, until I get him to capacity.

Speaker 1 Along the way,

Speaker 1 the only time,

Speaker 1 where am I adding fixed costs?

Speaker 1 When it gets to the client manager portion. That is the only time I'm adding fixed costs.
Okay. Because my sales rep is purely commission, right? Yep.

Speaker 1 And my acquisition manager should be able to be directly tied

Speaker 1 essentially the same as a sales rep. Yeah.
Right. As a variable cost rather than a fixed cost.
Right. Right.

Speaker 1 So I am just stair-stepping up my break-even analysis. Yeah.
Today, my break-even analysis says I need 1.125 customers, right?

Speaker 1 And so, if I add another client manager, how much do you pay a client manager? I pay them around the same, $200 a week. $200 a week, yeah.
So, 800 bucks, okay.

Speaker 1 $800

Speaker 1 would take your break-even analysis from like 1.25 to like 1.35. Yeah.
All right. So, literally,

Speaker 1 like almost no difference. But, but how much is a client manager manager worth to you?

Speaker 1 Not at all. A lot of money.

Speaker 1 So let's back it.

Speaker 1 How much, what can the client manager do? How many clients?

Speaker 1 You said three a week?

Speaker 1 3.3 a month. 3.3 a month, yeah.
Right, but we said we should probably get them up to four capacity. Yeah.
How much is four clients worth to you?

Speaker 1 15,

Speaker 1 60? Like 60 grand.

Speaker 1 Nope. That's 60 in revenue.
Remember, we don't

Speaker 1 ever think in revenue. Yeah, so that's like the 33,000, I think it was, yeah.
Dude, $33,600.

Speaker 1 So literally every time you bring on $800 in monthly expense, you're getting $33,600 in profit as long as you're utilizing them. Right.
Right? That's the key. The key is how much capacity you have.

Speaker 1 Are you getting max capacity?

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 once you

Speaker 1 charge up your marketing marketing and sales enough to get to max capacity, then you grow that again.

Speaker 1 And so, dude, literally you have a business here that could be made, like you, you got to think bigger, bro. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 like, dude, I'm sure,

Speaker 1 you know, your quarter million dollars a year that you're making in Tri-Cities is cool, right? Like, that's, that's awesome. You pay the bills, but dude, it's 2024.

Speaker 1 Biden economics, they're kicking us in the, in the freaking teeth. Yeah.
Right? Like, quarter million isn't what a quarter million used to be.

Speaker 1 That's true. So, like, we got to think about this: like, how big can we go and do? So, currently, you have how many client managers? Four? Yes.
Okay.

Speaker 1 So, you have four client managers for every, for five, six, whatever, dude, we're talking about literally every client manager you add on is going to net you 360,000 more a year. Yeah.

Speaker 1 yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 Dude, that's pretty wild. That is pretty good.
That is pretty wild. And like,

Speaker 1 bro, like, the last thing you should be doing is retracting.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm definitely going to, I'm definitely going to try out the marketing portion. Yeah.
You know, see how that ends up going. Because it does make sense.

Speaker 1 You just do exactly what you're doing already, add another account.

Speaker 1 And then just run it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, it's, it's funny.

Speaker 1 I think a lot of times business owners don't realize how much of a science business is right like we get caught up in the feels the emotions the fear the retraction the excitement uh of of it all the what's in the bank account or whatnot instead of just thinking okay logically let's just dial this back and let's see

Speaker 1 what we have and like if you can understand that game and dude what i would recommend to you is like get somebody in your corner because

Speaker 1 you have a unique talent to be able to go, like you've built an awesome personal brand, right? Like people know you as the PR guy, right?

Speaker 1 So you've got that down. Now go capitalize on it.
Yeah. Like go make real money, not just appear to make real money, not the rented Lambos or the rented mansions

Speaker 1 or the fake girls that you've picked up on Instagram or whatever else. But like you've got something that you can build off of that is like literally all it takes is just, oh, plug and play.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Input and knowing which lever to pull. Yep.

Speaker 1 What were we going to say?

Speaker 2 I was going to say, yeah, it's just measuring your inputs and outputs.

Speaker 2 But I think what you got to realize is like what you've gone through is like what most people go through. Yeah.
Right. It's a really common thing.

Speaker 2 And to break that ceiling, it's really understanding the game, the science of what business is, and then just apply. Yeah.
Apply, tweak, measure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, dude. It's, and, and what I, what I, to Daryl's point, like, don't beat yourself up.
Like, don't be like, oh, man, like, I,

Speaker 1 what, what have I done? I have this great thing and I haven't utilized, like, don't beat yourself up about that. Like,

Speaker 1 get somebody in your corner, corner, like, hire a mentor, hire a coach, hire somebody that can actually push you and hold you accountable because

Speaker 1 it's costing you severely

Speaker 1 financially in a lot of ways by just not understanding these levers to pull. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because, dude, I would say, you know, we talked about earlier, like, hey, the last time we met was six years ago, right? And like,

Speaker 1 you, you saw what we've done in six years. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 the large reason for that is because we spent a lot of money to have people in our corner.

Speaker 1 And so Daryl and I have,

Speaker 1 so personally, I've spent over a million bucks coaches, consultants, masterminds, and not just to look good, but actually to have guys in my corner that actually help me understand these things so I know the levers to pull.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
Like, I mean, I still go back to like holding the mastermind up at my, my lake house. I got Russell Brunson there.
I got Alex Ramose there.

Speaker 1 And Alex is like, dude, you need to run a process, but before you run a process, you need to hire a CFO, right? Like, that's what Alex told us.

Speaker 1 We went back and made some big adjustments to our business based off of that conversation.

Speaker 1 And it helped us understand where we need to do to be able to run a process, which is the the process of selling your business. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, and it's because I was in the room room spending the money to be with the right people. Right.
Like that is just like one small instance that I can even think back.

Speaker 2 I'll give you another one for me. An aha moment was I went to a business conference and the reason I went was because I felt like

Speaker 2 I didn't know how to run a business. Like every time I turn around, there's another set of problems.
And I'm thinking like, maybe I'm just not meant to do this. I'm just struggling.

Speaker 2 The biggest thing I learned from that conference was that every business has problems at every stage of, and they just change, right?

Speaker 2 So your strengths and weaknesses are always changing as the business grows, but they never go away. You always have problems, right? Always.
And so once.

Speaker 1 It's really the next level formula, right? Like the fact that no matter where you're at, there's always a next level. There's always a new set of problems.

Speaker 2 And then once I did that, I was like, oh, yeah, cool. Stop beating myself up.
Realize what my set of problems are. Solve those so I can get ready for the next set of problems.
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 And so then all of a sudden I was like, okay, I understand understand it's a game. Where before that, it was like, all like inwardly, like, I'm not good enough.
I can't figure this out.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to

Speaker 2 succeed.

Speaker 1 It all felt like fires. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 It all felt like fires.

Speaker 2 I was like, what am I doing this for? When reality is like, no, this is what businesses go through to like scale up.

Speaker 1 In fact, I remember when you came home from that conference, right? Like, there was this PDF sheet that you had, and it was like this cycle of business, and it showed like infants, right?

Speaker 1 Like toddler.

Speaker 2 It mimicked the life cycle of a human.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And it said like at each stage of your business, these are the problems that you will face.

Speaker 2 So predictable. Wow.

Speaker 2 It was wild. It was like the fact that it was that predictable and the fact that it was so obvious where we were at and it's so obvious what we just went through and what we will go through

Speaker 2 at the time was like, it blew my mind. I'm like, all right, settle down.
Let's go.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Let's get some, let's get to work.

Speaker 1 What are you hearing for yourself, man?

Speaker 1 i think i resonate with that a lot you know because i think at first um my the first issue i had was i just didn't know how to like i had to do everything myself so then i had to learn how to hire a team that was like the first issue that i had then i had too many clients i didn't know how to service them correctly then that was the second issue i had then i had a team remember when i had that uh like the team but they were all commission based so it's like honestly these are all the things that listed it was like one-man show then it was like managed by crisis yeah i mean you're you're just going through the stages but keeping yeah and that so i had that team, but I mean, nobody was on payroll.

Speaker 1 So it was like chaotic the entire time. You know, I didn't handle that well.
Um, so it's just like, yeah, there's just cycles.

Speaker 1 And this last cycle, I'm probably the most grateful for because it's like, it's a, the finance thing, you know, and I feel like, all right, um, I'm just, I'm, I'm grateful right now that I, that I'm able to like pay off the debt and I have like left over and I'm not worried, you know, so I feel like I got that part down.

Speaker 1 Yep. Um, so I like, I'm in a place now where I'm comfortable enough to like take those risks.
I can spend the $2,400 a month

Speaker 1 tests and things like that. So

Speaker 1 yeah, that's where I'm at along that cycle.

Speaker 1 Yeah, man.

Speaker 1 Like I said, I think there's just so much power having the right people that are in your corner working with you, not being afraid to ask.

Speaker 1 I would recommend, dude, if you got questions, don't be afraid to come and ask us. Hey, this is what I'm thinking about doing or whatever else.
So

Speaker 1 local Tri-Sidians, we got to, we got to, we got to stick together, you know? Yep, yep. Good stuff.

Speaker 1 Sweet Ulysses, man, I appreciate you being willing to be vulnerable, opening up and like just discussing like these things because I think there are so many people that are listening to this that are going through the exact same things that are trying to scale, that are trying to make the right moves, that are either, you know, starting out for the first time or they went too fast and now they're retracting and they're scared and whatever else, right?

Speaker 1 Like there's a lot that can be related to. And so I appreciate you opening up and being vulnerable.
I do. Thank you.
I appreciate it. Appreciate the help.
Awesome. Awesome.

Speaker 1 So if any of our listeners are wanting PR services or they want to follow Ulysses and what you got going on, what's the best channels to do so?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they can follow me on Instagram or like any social media at Ulysses

Speaker 1 and they can talk to me there. Awesome.
Awesome. Appreciate it so much.
Until next time.