544: No Such Thing As An Accidental Stuffed Crust

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Hey everyone, before we begin this week's episode of Phish, we just want to remind you that the four of us are heading back out on tour as of this September with our massive 10th anniversary show, Thunder Nerds.

It's going to be so good, guys.

We're going all over.

It's an Earth Sandwich tour.

We're doing the UK, we're doing Ireland, and then we're going to the New World, to Australia and New Zealand.

Those shows are almost entirely sold out in the New World, but old world dates, there are some tickets left, so we're going to be playing Bristol, Dublin, Glasgow, Newcastle, Cardiff, London, London again, and Manchester.

That's right.

So if you want to come and experience the Dorkery in person, it's a wild night.

We record a live podcast.

We include extras.

We've just written and performed our first preview of it.

It was smashing, incredibly exciting.

You're going to meet characters from the archives of our show.

You're going to find out how we put all the show together.

We're going behind the scenes and it's going to be a wild night.

So come.

be with us in one of these big old rooms and let's have a massive night out together.

Just head to no such thingasafish.com/slash live.

You'll find the links to every single one of those shows.

Buy tickets, and we'll see you there.

Yes, we cannot wait.

It's so much fun.

No such thingasafish.com/slash live.

It's the perfect thing to do, or the perfect gift to buy someone you love who likes fish and is happy to see them, us,

on stage.

Cool.

On with the show.

Bye.

Always end strong.

Okay, on with the show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from four undisclosed locations around the UK.

My name is Dan Schreiber.

I am sitting here with Andrew Hunter Murray, James Harkin, and Anna Toshinsky.

And once again, we have gathered round the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days.

And in no particular order, here we go.

Starting with fact number one, and that is Anna.

My fact this week is that in the swimming races at the first modern Olympics, the American competitor dropped out because the water was too cold.

That is amazing.

And how things have changed now because they've had to change some of the swimming events because there's feces in the Sene.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, wow.

Actually, well, similarly, now we have a lot of water events happening in the Seine, which is natural water.

And this was 1896, and the swimming events happened in the Med.

So that was surprisingly chilly.

Very nice.

Yes, I think it was partly because the Olympics had gone three times over budget, and so they couldn't really afford to build proper swimming pools or set up those venues.

Heat the entire Mediterranean.

Yeah.

All that.

The Med is, of course, hotter than your big oceans, but this was happening earlier on in the year, in March or April, depending on which calendar you were using.

And it was surprisingly cold.

It was surprisingly bad weather.

And this competitor was called Gardner Williams.

And this is all recounted by one of his fellow competitors who was there at the time.

So there's some question as to whether this definitely happened.

But his mate, who was there competing with him, said, This is what happened.

And as this guy called Tom Curtis tells it, this guy had won many races in warm American swimming pools.

And he was blissfully ignorant that the Mediterranean is bitterly cold in April.

So a boat took them out.

He dived headfirst into the icy water, and in a split second, his head reappeared.

He shouted, Jesus, Christo, I'm freezing.

And with that shriek of astonished frenzy, he lashed back to the float.

But it sounds like it wasn't even just the coldness.

It sounds like the waves were crazy as hell.

The winner of the match describes 12-foot waves crashing down onto him as he was swimming towards the ending.

Your lanes were only shown to you via hollowed-out pumpkins that were floating in the ocean.

It sounded love tales.

I think it genuinely was really cold because the guy who won was called Alfred Hajos, I think.

And he wrote of this event that the icy water almost cut into our stomachs.

We called him Hajos or Hajos or Hajos.

Oh, Hajos sounds actually like

he was Hungarian, wasn't he?

Oh, there we go.

He was actually known as the Hungarian dolphin, so we could just call him that and save the pronunciation issue.

Brilliant.

So the Hungarian dolphin, he was also later the manager of the Hungarian football team.

He learned to swim when he was 13 years old after his father had drowned in the Danube, and he decided that he should learn how to swim.

And when the Olympics started, he was at the local university, and he really, really struggled to get permission to leave and go to the Olympics.

And in fact, when he came back with his medals, he said, the dean did not congratulate me.

He said, your medals are of no interest to me, but I am eager to hear your replies in your next examination.

Of course, like in those days, the Olympics wasn't that big a deal.

No, it was too big.

It didn't even exist.

It didn't.

It's like the first...

If I just went off to a made-up competition,

if I told you guys, oh, I'm going to be away for three weeks because I'm going to the global haiku slam event.

You would totally believe it.

Yeah.

But if you Google it and there was no evidence of it.

Yeah, exactly.

I don't know.

I think I sort of understand it.

Although, in fairness, Andy, it was in the newspapers.

If you look back in the newspaper archives, you can see that in America they were reporting on it.

They report on this guy that Anna and Richardly mentioned, Gardner Williams, at the start that he's going.

And then you don't really see any mention of him in the results.

So that does bear credence to the idea that he jumps in the water, it was too cold, and he jumped out again.

Yeah.

But I saw one amazing article in the Boston Globe.

This was from the 12th of April, 1896, and they said that when Gardiner Williams arrived on the boat in Athens, he came onto land in his trunks and a purple robe and announced to the press, Leander swam the Hellespont and I will swim this here.

Oh, sentences you regret.

I have a feeling

it might have been satire.

They didn't admit at any stage that this was a satirical piece, but I think it might have been.

Because they mentioned another guy called Hoyt, who was a pole vaulter, and they said that he was practicing over a statue of Zeus outside his hotel and that he knocked the god off his pedestal three times but cleared him at the fourth try.

Wow.

So I can't tell if it's real or not.

I believe it.

I believe there was so much mad stuff happening at these at the first ever games.

As in the 1200 meter event, it wasn't like you started, you got in the water and then you swam along the shore for 1200 meters.

You were taken 1200 meters away from land and then you were just ditched in the ocean.

So it's about surviving.

Yeah, if you don't finish the race, you die.

That's it.

Yeah.

It was only because we are saying the water's quite cold, it was only, I think, about 12 degrees, which is chilly.

But just if there are world swimmers out there, they'll be like, come on, guys, you pussies.

I would say in the med, if people are swimming at the start of April in the med, you usually look at them and go, oh, that's a hardy soul.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Can I tell you guys about my favourite competitor from the 1896 Olympics?

Yeah, go for it.

Please.

Have you heard of Italian runner Carlo Iroldi?

I did not hear of him.

Oh, great.

Okay.

So he

walked to the games.

He was from Milan

and they were taking place in Athens.

And he was a great long-distance runner, right?

He'd done, he'd, the previous year, he'd done a 600-mile race in lots of different stages.

So really good at long-distance running.

He

hears about this marathon.

He thinks, that's a piece of piss.

26, easy.

So he thinks, I'll do it.

But he didn't have money for a train or a ship or whatever from Italy to Greece.

So he thought, I'll just walk.

I'll just walk there.

And he briefly got a boat at one stage, but he did walk or run about 900 kilometers from his home to Athens.

Right.

So what's the comedy thing that happens at the end?

If you're writing this as a script,

he arrives at the start line.

Yeah.

And he's forgotten his shoes and has to go back.

That's good.

That's good.

They've moved the venue back to where he had originally walked from.

Yeah, it's in Milan.

Yeah, yeah.

No, what happened was he got there in time for the games, amazingly impressive.

And then he was asked, Oh, by the way, have you ever competed and won money for athletics?

And he said, Oh, yeah, I did win the Milanta Barcelona race last year, which was hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kilometres.

They said, Oh, sorry, well, you can't run then.

Bye.

No, disqualified for being professional.

That's really sad.

So, your favorite competitor at the 1896 Olympics was not, in fact, a competitor.

That's right, that's right.

He was a cheat.

He was an attempted cheat.

Can I give you my favourite competitor for the 1896 olympics this was sumner payne who was a pistol firer he won the 30 meter free pistol and uh when he got home he arrived a little bit early and surprised his wife with his medal hey honey i'm home early and she was in bed with his daughter's dutch music teacher

and so he chased him out of the house firing his gun, bearing in mind that he's just won a gold medal at the 30 meter free pistol, chases this guy out of the house the guy runs away and the police arrest him and put him in jail and then in the court case later on he was let off because they realized that he was such a good pistol shooter that he obviously hadn't meant to shoot the guy brilliant if he meant to shoot him of course he would have hit him that's so they said that he's shown restraint and he got free i was because when you said he runs out of the house firing his first pistol i'm thinking of him like being yosemed sam do you know what i mean i think there was some of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry, that was too distracting.

Sorry, what was that?

So, listener, what happened there is we are recording this over the internet on a particular system.

And when Andy did his Yosemite Sun shooting the guns in the air, a load of balloons came up.

How do I make it happen again?

I just, I was just like, You have to not be trying.

It knows if you want it.

Wow.

That was incredibly distracting.

I think if I do a thumbs up, it makes a thumbs up on the screen.

There we go.

It does.

Let's not do too many.

Andy, don't take your pants off.

Oh, Andy.

Two other things from the original Olympics that I quite like.

The Greek team won gold in gymnastics.

And they would not win another gold in gymnastics for 100 years.

So it wasn't until the 1996 Olympics that they got their next gold.

And the other thing is the hurdles, they used to jump with two feet over it at the same time rather than doing that one leg and then the second leg coming over it.

Yeah.

So according to what I was reading, I haven't seen any football.

The Greeks did, I think.

I think the American hurdler rocked up and saw the Greek doing that and thought, that's absolutely hilarious.

You're screwed.

I'm going to win this, which he did.

Because the Americans were like all into like college athletics at that time, weren't they?

Competing for like Harvard or Yale or whatever.

Yeah.

And they were like really seasoned competitors compared to some of the other people who literally just rocked up and went, oh, I might just do this then.

Yeah.

In fact, they were largely from, as you say, Harvard, and it was the Boston Athletics Association which was responsible for getting most of them there, which I mentioned because there's a really funny thing that was actually mentioned in this article by Tom Curtis, who was the hurdler who won gold.

He said that they had a chant, which it's hard to know how it went, but I think it was B-A-A, rah-rah-rah.

So Boston Athletics Association.

And according to him, no one in Europe had ever seen cheering in unison before.

So everyone was incredibly excited by this.

And King George, who the king was presiding over it all, like he judged if there was a tie, he was there.

King George was so excited that the Americans did this chant.

And King George's aide came up to the Americans and saluted them solemnly and said,

His Majesty the King requests that you for him will make one more that funny sound, as he wrote it.

And they had to do it again.

And then he gave them a celebratory breakfast the next day at which again he said to the Americans, would you mind doing that funny chant you did again, please?

It was so much fun.

So funny.

Yeah, he was quite involved, wasn't he, the king?

He decided that no one should measure any of the long jumps because he thought that, oh, that's just the kind of thing professionals do.

So we don't want professionals at this.

It's an amateur athletics thing.

We'll work out who's the longest just through looking with our eyes, but we're not actually going to measure it.

And so we don't know what the longest distance was in that Olympics.

We know who won it.

We don't know what they jumped.

Really?

That's really good.

I was actually reading up on how we do find if things are too close and, you know, like a photo finish, you know, what technology is out there now.

But the swimming, they use a very interesting process in the pools, which is they have a pad that the swimmers need to touch.

And I think I've worked out a hack.

Push out a wave that can move at a force of 3.3 pounds because that is the amount of poundage that you need in order to activate the pad to make it clock the timing.

Fortunately, they've worked out.

Sorry, Grad, just to say, yeah, the way that swimming works is you're kind of pushing the water backwards is so that you go forwards.

And if you push the water forwards and make a wave, you're actually going to be sending yourself backwards.

Well, that's fine because then you draw.

You just stay at the back of the pool and you just concentrate all your effort, blasting away a wall of water at that pad and then relax.

Or

the final 10 meters, turn around and swim the other way.

Yeah,

that's good.

Yeah, that's okay.

That's another a try.

Next time, Adam Petey.

But it's pretty amazing how quickly these things are logged.

Yeah, the speed is extraordinary.

And I think it's completely pointless because when you're coming down to those five margins, who cares?

It's a draw.

I just think if human eyes can't

just call it a tie.

I agree.

I agree.

If the king of Greece can't tell clearly who's ahead, there's a tiger.

You know,

South America was thought not to have played a part in the first Olympics until very recently when we found evidence that they did.

Chile always claimed they'd sent one after

very chilly in that water.

Go on trillion.

It's like your joke signifier now, Andy, that noise, just so

we know it's happened.

Yeah, yeah.

Anything I say without that is actually meant to be taken deadly seriously.

That's really good to know.

There was a Chilean guy called Luis Subé Casso,

and he didn't get any medals, so there's no written evidence of him being there because they didn't keep very good records.

It was only if you got a medal, really.

And then, I think in about 2014, apparently the forensic Chilean police force, exam it who are like facial recognizers, examined a couple of photos from the 100-meter sprint and they confirmed using their facial recognition skills that that was in fact him.

Now it was the Chilean police.

That's a load of nonsense.

A, just if you're a super recognizer, you can just say, oh yeah, that's that's the guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's him, definitely.

It's so ripe for abuse, this system.

Secondly, slow crime day in Chile, wasn't it?

You caught everybody, have you?

You caught every shoplifter or whatever, and you just, you've cleared your backlog back to 1896.

Let's be real.

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Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Andy.

My fact is that Japan is currently planning a 300-mile conveyor belt.

Is this just for people who've done a huge supermarket?

That's right, yeah, yeah.

How far into planning is it?

Oh, it's early stages.

It's very early stages.

Oh, is it just someone, is it like a Boris Johnson saying, oh, let's do this?

I don't think anyone in Japan is as unreliable as Boris Johnson.

So I think it's already a better plan than all of his.

But I think

it's a very ambitious plan, definitely, because I think the longest conveyor belt at the moment in the world is quite a lot shorter than this.

But the idea is that it would be effectively a road linking Tokyo and Osaka.

And

the conveyor belts would be either along the hard shoulder of roads between these two places or in tunnels under the road.

And it would be in big pallets.

And it's really sensible, actually.

It's not just a sort of kind of wacky plan.

It's because

another difference with the Boris-Johnson approach.

It's because there's forecast to be a really big shortfall of drivers.

Like lorry drivers.

Lorry drivers, haulage, and all of that.

In some remote areas, it's going to be a really acute problem because lots of bits of Japan have falling populations, and it's important to be able to keep supplies going, obviously, to all bits of the country.

So the idea is if you free up drivers between Tokyo and Osaka, they're free to service lots of other bits of the country.

And also,

it's a generally good idea to...

free up roads of freight because the idea you know you reduce pollution on the surface you reduce congestion free up the roads for non-commercial travel all sorts of things so it is currently in the early state it's basically at the moment it's a line it's a long line on a bit of paper right um is it a conveyor belt that goes back around as in if you miss collecting your freight at the end, does it head back to Tokyo?

It's like an airport one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

You have to wait at the end looking out for your Amazon package.

Do we know how fast it's going to go?

Incredibly fast, 400 miles an hour.

No, come on.

No, I don't, no, I don't know.

I don't know.

Because there is a limit of how fast a conveyor belt can go, really.

Practically, there is.

Because if you put something on a conveyor belt that's going more than, let's say, 20 miles an hour, the stuff's just going to fly off.

yeah yeah

i was thinking i was wondering if it was going to go fast enough to be worth getting on it yourself if you needed to get from tokyo to osaka and probably would be wouldn't it that'd be incredible

the um fastest conveyor belt actually i should say is um can you guess how fast it goes miles per hour

is it for people uh no it's for reedish lignite rocks oh okay that changes my calculation okay i think about 20 miles an hour okay

50?

Yeah.

50 miles an hour.

Well, it's going to be a lot, isn't it?

Otherwise, you wouldn't have asked.

Dan, is it somewhere in between?

Are you going to go massively high or massively low?

400.

No, so I think it's got to be lower.

I think lower than Andy's.

I would say 15.

It's 33 miles per hour.

Wow.

50 meters per second.

Wow.

And yeah, again, the reason that it can't go faster, presumably you could in theory make it go faster, but if you put the rocks on, they're just going to fly off.

Yeah.

How are you going to collect your sushi off that belt when you're sitting down for a meal?

Yeah.

That sushi's breaking your teeth.

I think the longest one so far is about 100 kilometers.

It's about 60 miles.

And it's in the Western Sahara.

Well, controversial.

Ooh, great.

Can I just say

that's I always thought that was the longest conveyor belt.

Yeah, as a fly researcher, you just kind of know these things.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That's in your induction pack, isn't it?

But it's that's that's okay.

I'll just say what that one is.

So that's phosphate rock in Western Sahara, and it's a 2,000 tons an hour of phosphate rock is moved along, and it's been mined, and now it's going to be refined.

Yeah, so it is really, really long, but it is made of lots of units, and each unit is only 11.7 kilometers long, and then they attach together a bit like Legos.

But the longest, just one conveyor belt, is between India and Bangladesh, and that goes 35 kilometers.

And it was the only man-made structure built after partition that links Bangladesh and India.

Wow.

Wow.

The The economists tried to follow it, and what they do is they followed this conveyor belt, followed it, followed it, followed it, and then got to within like a few hundred meters of the border.

And the soldiers went, nope.

So actually, no human can go that way.

You'd have to put yourself in a box if you ever wanted to make that journey.

Or a cake.

Big cake.

It's not used for that.

I think that's going to stand out amongst whatever they're trying to watch in from the market.

So it's like lignite rock, lignite rock, lignite rock, giant birthday cake.

Lignite rock, lignite rock.

Hang on, go back to.

You had to say, oh, someone down the other end of the line is having a birthday.

That was nice.

I only had to do an emergency stop on it, and Andy just flung out of the cake.

Fully naked.

Oh, dear.

So, Andy, is yours a continuous conveyor belt then, or should we alter your fact to mine a three-mile-long conveyor belt?

I don't think the Japanese system will be one belt.

So,

it'll be a system, won't it?

I think as long as it doesn't have to dismount and then be remounted by a human, I would allow it.

Okay, nice idea.

There's a pitch for one in Britain.

There's the firm called Magway who want to do the same kind of thing.

It would be around London, and it's on magnetic surfboards.

So I think this would be floating parcels delivered around London.

Don't put water on it.

That's a magway, Magway joke.

Oh, that's good.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And it can't carry anything after midnight.

And isn't that a Cinderella thing?

It's also a gremlins thing.

Okay.

The swimming at the Athens Olympics had to happen after midnight because previously all the coaches were floating in the water.

That was laboured.

Jens, I'm born in my jokes

for that.

What was it again?

So I was learning a bit about conveyor belt terminology because I'm sure, as we all have, we've all spent a long time today on websites that sell conveyor belts.

And do you know what the most important bit of a conveyor belt is called?

The rubber?

The belt.

The rubber bit.

Belt.

It's actually, no, it's not the rubber bit.

It's the bit under the rubber, which is made of interwoven fabric, which is responsible for the tension and the weight carrying.

And it's called the carcass.

Oh, lovely.

That's good.

Those conveyor belt websites, they all do nick from each other, don't they?

The history of the conveyor belt.

It's been really copied and pasted quite a few times.

Has it?

It has.

But I have, I think I can tell you the original source, and it is the most important history of conveyor belts ever written it's called Belt Conveyors and Belt Elevators it's by a guy called Fred Hetzel written in 1922 okay and a lot of these copy things seem to come from him so I think 1795 is often cited as the first modern conveyor belt by a guy called Oliver Evans who did it for his flour mills to transport flour around and Evans also invented the first ever car in America but by accident

How, okay.

It's always by accident.

All inventions are always.

Oh, he was carrying the ingredients of a car and then he tripped over and they fell,

assembled themselves on the conveyor belt.

Yeah, and it just drove him the rest of the way.

Wow.

Well, it's this one I've just used by accident quite loosely.

It was called the Oruktor amphibulos, and it was also the first amphibious vehicle in the world.

It was a huge steam-powered machine that is supposed to dredge stuff from the bottom of water.

He built it in his warehouse, but then he had to transport it to the river in Philadelphia in order to show it off and do the dredging.

So to transport it, he attached four wheels and he rigged up the wheels to the steam mechanism for the dredging and he drove it through Philadelphia.

And there, there, by accident, he's made the first car, hasn't he?

That's quite cool, Eric.

That's quite powerful.

Is it Thomas Robbins Jr.

who is largely credited with the sort of the modern conveyor belt that we use these days?

He supplied his conveyor belts to people like Thomas Edison to use in his factories and so on.

And he also was the first, I believe, to use vulcanized rubber.

And there's quite a nice link because Thomas Robbins Jr., his granddaughter, Louisa Robbins, married Austin Goodyear, which must have been a powerhouse couple.

It's like a royal family of vulcanized rubber and conveyor belting.

Wow.

Have you heard of the Trotois Roulante Rapide?

This was at the Montpalas-Bienvenu station.

It was a high-speed walkway.

You know those ones you you get at airports?

Oh, yeah.

Yep.

They go really slowly, don't they?

I think we could all agree.

Oh, I love them.

Sure, we all love them, but they could be gingered up a bit.

Are you the kind of person who just gets on them and then just stands there with all of your luggage just blocking the way so none of us people can walk on them?

No, but I had an accidental layover in Abu Dhabi and I thought it was going to be full of stuff for the kids.

There was nothing.

It all had shut since COVID.

And we spent, no joke, four hours running on the travelators back and forth to tire out the kids.

Well, Dan, you would have loved the Trois Roulon Rapide at Montparnasse Bienvenu because it was fast.

It went at seven and a half miles an hour, which is that's jogging speed, I'd say.

Basically, it was so dangerous, it had to have bouncers at the beginning saying, No, you are not ready for the Trois Roulon rapid.

It's too much for you.

Go away.

There was an acceleration zone at the beginning, and then a deceleration zone at the end.

And it did nine years in service, but there were so many accidents.

Hang on a second.

I have a a question.

If you're on a travelator that's shared by lots of other people, how does it accelerate you at the start without accelerating everyone else along the way?

Great question.

I think it might have been a belt that...

gets you up to a few miles an hour already and then the next zone is going a few miles an hour faster than that first zone

you see what i mean so you don't just step onto a thing going at jogging speed because that would be a bit mad yeah i think we've said that in the past that this was an idea that was put about in america when they first invented conveyor belts yeah

the walkways the walkways where you would like step on one which was two miles an hour and then step onto one that was four miles an hour, then on one that's eight miles an hour, and before you know it, you're going at 60 miles an hour in a walkway.

Yeah, but here's the thing: your one, Andy, with the acceleration speed, is assuming that you're just standing still, and that is the seven mile an hour speed that you're going at.

But as we experienced in Abu Dhabi, when you run on these things, the speed that you get when you're running.

So I wonder what speed you could get on a seven mile an hour travelator.

Wow.

Wow, it would be your normal speed plus seven or seven miles an an hour.

So what's my normal speed, I guess, is the big question.

Yeah.

I mean, the sky's the limit, depending on how good you are running.

I don't think the sky is the limit.

Well, I don't think you can run infinitely fast just as long as you keep trying.

How did conveyor belts really change the world, would you say?

I think

before that.

Like industry, big industrial plants, really.

Exactly.

Assembly lines, basically, isn't it?

Yeah.

You know, it's like the idea was: let's say you're making a car, you're Ford.

What would happen is you'd have your carcass of a car just sort of hanging up.

And then if you're the guy who does the left wheel, you'd have to go over to the car and attach the left wheel.

And then the guy who puts the windscreen wipers on would have to walk over and do that.

But if you have a conveyor belt, then the carcass can move along and everyone can just stand there and do their thing.

And by the time it gets to the end of the conveyor belt, it's done.

So Ford was the first place to really do that.

And that was why they became so massive.

And originally, the conveyor belt was pulled by a rope.

So you would have a person on the end, and they would be pulling the car along while everyone was doing their thing.

And the really interesting thing is that the idea came to them from a slaughterhouse.

So one of the guys who was working at Ford visited a slaughterhouse in Chicago, and they had a thing called a disassembly line, where someone would get an actual carcass and pull it along on a rope.

And then the first person would take out the heart and then the next person would pull off the legs and

they would take all the bits of the carcass off to be used and this was their system and then Ford thought well what if instead of taking bits off the carcass we put bits onto the carcass and that's why it's called a car

we're all dancing around it

conveyor belts are responsible for naming one of the big American products out there literally the conveyor belt suggested the name.

Really?

Yeah, and that is Hershey's Kisses chocolate.

Oh, yeah.

And it was when they were manufacturing it,

the sound that the motion of the machine made when it plopped the chocolate onto the conveyor belt, it sounded like a little kiss.

And so they thought, oh, these are kisses that are coming out.

And so they became Hershey's Kisses.

So yeah, it was literally

suggestedly named.

It's better than Hershey's Plops.

But also, it's like the little tube comes comes down, doesn't it?

And it goes very close to the conveyor belt and then drops it off and pulls up again.

So it's like it's kissing the conveyor belt,

which is not like plopping.

No.

Sounds like it's still, they must have had a wet conveyor belt.

Oh,

I'd never heard a conveyor belt make a kissing sound.

She's gentle wet plops.

We've all had American chocolate.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact.

My fact is that graffiti in toilets is called latrinealia, thanks to a professor in 1966 who thought shithouse poetry wasn't technically correct.

Not all poetry.

It did seem to be, I did like this fact, because it did seem to be that his objection was just that it wasn't technically correct, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's all it was.

He was an American folklorist called Alan Dunns, and it was it was a fine term, but he just thought it's not all poetry, you know so he wrote he wrote by the way this paper which is called here I sit and it's a history of scatological graffiti anything that we found from the ancient world all the way through to current day and he gave us this word as a result which we use now on a daily basis

contribution everyday word

duns had um in his paper he had the theory that the reason that people write stuff on toilet walls is because of they have a desire to smear things with their excrement

And apparently this is the socially accepted form of that impulse.

Right.

Whereas my newly invented turd crayon actually allows you to indulge both impulses at the same time.

Yeah, yeah.

I thought this was from the paper Theses on Feces.

Am I wrong?

Maybe he republished.

Right.

I mean, James is in my book, for instance, was released in hardback under the name Everything to Play For and in paperback.

Oh my god.

A load of old balls.

Jeez.

Do you have a podcast as well?

What's going on?

Actually, now you mention it.

It just felt like a really relevant example.

Yeah, that was really relevant, Anna.

That's good work.

Guys, you're being weirdos.

And look, I don't mind.

We can be weirdos, but.

So sweet of you to publicise Dan's thing.

Yeah.

What a good mate.

So Duns, or Dundee's, I actually don't know how you pronounce his name.

I'm going to say Dundee's just to contradict you guys.

Yeah, go for it.

He was a pretty interesting guy.

He was known as the jokes professor because he made his lectures, you know, witty and funny, included lots of riddles in them.

And he wrote some seriously controversial stuff, like a thing about how the German national character is inextricably bound up with anal erotic fixation, which made him contentious.

In Germany, I imagine.

Yeah, I think

largely in Germany, yes, some of them objected.

Some of them loved it.

Fortunately,

he only wrote it on the back of a toilet cubicle.

In his own feces.

Yeah, so it had limited impact.

But he had this weird moment when he, just before he retired, which was the year 2000, he got a letter which his wife opened and read, which I don't know what the dynamic is there, but she said, gosh, you've got this letter from a former student who says that what I learned in your anthropology classes influenced me every day of my life.

So I'm enclosing this check for you.

And she said, and it's $1,000, darling.

And so he said, wow, that's, gosh, how lovely.

And then she said, hang on.

I don't know how she miscounted.

Maybe she was an idiot.

But she said oh actually there are more zeros than i thought it's it's actually a million dollars

and a former student just left him a million dollars if you've been enjoying this podcast for the last 10 years

feel free which of us is willing to give out a home address to receive that million dollars i will but you have to read my letter to me because i just swamped

That's very funny.

Wow.

One of the things is I think there's been too much academic study written about latrinalia, and we need to pare it down because everyone, every Tom Diggin Harry's written a paper who doesn't know what else to do, thinks, how interesting.

And I can really easily access this.

I'll just go to my uni toilets.

And it's always about the gender difference because obviously mostly you get men's and women's toilets.

But it does seem true that

sex is definitely the most common topic by far.

There was a study in Nigeria which found that 46% of men's and 37% of women's graffiti was about sex.

And women have more insults, but are also more supportive.

Yeah, there was a study that was done in 2016 by a guy called Scott Kelly who works in advertising and he just got curious about it and he had people going into toilets all over London, I think 100 toilets and he asked both men and women to report back on what they found.

So some of the results showed that women were more likely to express feelings of love and support and men were more likely to draw penises.

That was the large opening thing that they found.

The penises that were found on the walls of women's bathrooms had longer penises than the one on the men's walls.

Not sure.

Was that because all the men were saying, this is how big your penis is, you dickhead?

And then taking the piss out of someone.

I think it's because the men were tracing around their own penises when they were drawing the pictures on the wall, whereas women had to do it from memory.

Yeah.

It's how men show support mutually, I think, is insults and scatological.

There's a lot of correcting.

You know, you see someone correct someone else's writing or

repost.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I saw an article about Lancaster University.

So, this was Dialogues in Solitude, and they talked about someone who'd written filed FC,

and then someone else had written our shit,

and then someone else had written hot underneath.

And they went into all sorts.

They were like, here is an assertion made by A with the elocution signaling identification with a college football team.

B contributes a negative evaluation of the group in question, denigrating the identity of the other and consequently ameliorating in-group identity.

There is then support for A by C, shifting this negative evaluation by the addition of hot, which changes shit into an intensifier in shit hot.

If anything proves my complaint about academics wasting their time and ours, it is that.

It is remarkable, isn't it?

I mean, literally,

sketch align.

If that's been done with public money, I'm a little bit vexed about that.

The entry for dictionary in the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica was written by a guy called Alan Walker Reed.

And he was also very big in latronalia.

He wrote a book where he went around the western United States picking up graffiti from toilet walls, but he had to publish it privately in Paris because no publisher would take it because it was so filthy.

Oh, wow.

Trust the Parisians.

Isn't that amazing?

And even then, they only made 75 copies.

And there was a disclaimer on the front page saying this should be restricted to students students of linguistics.

Wow, that's so funny!

Wow, Paris was the place.

Wasn't it Paris that printed Ulysses as well?

Ulysses, yeah, yeah.

It was the place to go if you had something filthy that you wanted to go.

Maybe the Chatealese lover, did that have to be printed in France and then shipped over?

I think so.

You might be right.

I can't remember why.

Paris actually, I think, had the first public urinals in public, as it were.

You know, like the ones we have that raise up the street now that you can do in London.

I think, because I was reading about them, because obviously, you know, this is about public toilets generally and there was an early 19th century prefect of the city called Rambuto who ordered them

like at private schools.

Yeah, he wasn't head boy but people still liked him.

Just go around telling other Parisians to do up their cravats immediately.

So Rambuto, the prefect, ordered the construction of these things because people were weighing on the streets too much.

And it's just so interesting that immediately it gives privacy to people to transgress and being gay was not legal then.

And so that sort of gave an opportunity to be gay in private.

And by 1862, police were recording the locations of all the glory holes in the public toilets that had been made.

They had were keeping a record.

So that's like, again, I didn't know glory holes went back that far.

But I remember probably said it on here, but the oldest glory hole in Australia is in Perth Museum.

Really?

And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Has it been brought in?

Yes, where is it?

Was it just?

No, it was found in a public toilet and they brought it and put it into the collection just the hole not

no you can't

anything is potentially an ex glory hole i'm holding it i'm holding a glory hole here can you see it

um the roman stuff we haven't talked about is there actual evidence of it i know there are sort of quotes about it so yeah well as in graffiti in ancient rome do we have actual walls that were

i think in pompeii they do yeah yeah pompeii they do.

Oh, yes, and that weirdly that got me onto it.

Have we talked ever about the Latin thesaurus that has people have been writing since 1894?

This is amazing.

Okay, this is some people in Munich.

They're making a dictionary of Latin, right?

From 500 BC to 200 AD.

And what their aim is, is every single word...

ever written in Latin ends up in this dictionary.

So this is how I found it.

Researcher Marika Otting said, if a word is just on a toilet in Pompeii in graffiti, you'll find it with us.

So literally every word.

They started doing this in 1894.

The German government set it up.

They might be done by 2050 if they hurry, but they think it's probably actually a bit too ambitious.

Right.

How are they being so slow?

I mean, all dictionaries are supposed to have every word in them.

I think it's every single word has an entry and a branching tree of how it relates to...

all the other words it's related to.

I see.

The most recent work they published was P, the letter P, but they did skip N because it had a lot of words in it.

They have to go back at some point and do N.

It's so annoying.

They have a lot of like,

are they called hapex legomenons or something, where they have one example of the word, they just don't know what it means, right?

Because

if you've only got one example of a word being used, unless that is in a dictionary, say this word means this, it's really hard to ascertain exactly what it means.

Like in future, if all users of the word milkshake are lost in future in 500 years, apart from in the song, My Milkshake Brings All the Boys to the Yard, there'll be feverish scholar debate about what a milkshake was.

What is it?

Yeah, exactly.

You can infer things.

So, if you've only got a word that's on a toilet wall that says X person's name is an absolute questionable word, you know, you can infer

it might be legend, yeah, it might be Arsenal.

I suppose that's a good point, yeah.

I didn't consider legend as a possibility.

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Okay, it is time for our final fact of the show, and that is James.

Okay, my fact this week is that Pizza Hut in Hong Kong sells a pizza topped with ham, mushroom, and snake.

Almost disgusting.

Disgusting.

It's like pepperoni, though.

If you slice the snake finely enough.

Oh, sorry, I was thinking the mushroom part was disgusting, but now I see actually that the snake is the unusual bit.

Yes, so this is Pizza Hut in Hong Kong.

They have done a team-up with a restaurant called Sir Wong Fun, which is arguably the oldest restaurant in operation in Hong Kong.

And this restaurant has lots of specialties, which include snake meat.

And so the Hong Kong Pizza Hut decided, well, why don't we put some on our pizzas?

And I don't know how popular it is.

I wouldn't eat it.

Do you know what kind of snake?

Oh, what a good question.

I do not, actually.

It's like scampy, isn't it?

there's all sorts of stuff in there uh you can eat there's lots of different species of snake that are eaten so i i actually don't know for instance we even ate viper in england really at various times in our history we have a few um cookbooks with viper recipes in them

i actually wonder why we don't there must be something it must not be that tasty otherwise why aren't we eating snake i don't think it's very tasty ken elm digby father of everard digby oh yeah friend of the podcast come up with a recipe for viper wine at some point.

I think he did with cock ale as well in the same book.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Apparently, just on the taste of snake, according to the Oxford Companion to Food, they say generally the obvious resemblance between eels and snakes make recipes for one suited to the other, but snakes are leaner.

So

they taste a bit eel-y, apparently.

Do you know when the best time to eat this pizza is?

And I don't mean in terms of like, you know, 7 p.m., I mean seasonal.

Ooh.

Oh,

snake season, when the snakes are big.

Yeah, so it's when the autumn wind begins to blow.

And the reason is because they've fattened up the snakes at this point in preparation for hibernation.

So you're getting your snakiest topping

when you order it then.

Oof.

Pizza Hut are very good at this kind of regional specializing, aren't they?

Are they?

Well, I found a few other examples from around the place.

These are a bit less visceral.

I mean, Pizza Hut Middle East did a cheeseburger crown crust pizza, which has a ring of miniature cheeseburgers around the edge of the crust.

Sounds great.

Fine.

Well, all right.

How do you think about this one, James?

Pizza Hut Malaysia, which offered a kind of squirting crust.

Okay.

Isn't that a stuffed crust that you've squeezed?

What's it squirting?

Garlic sauce and cheese.

Isn't that just a stuffed crust?

For some reason, it's more impressive than a stuffed crust.

It's more of a blast zone, apparently.

Okay.

I had a little bit of a look at the stuffed crust, and it's a fascinating tale.

Did any of you guys see this?

No.

No.

The inventor of the stuffed crust has actually had a full-on documentary released about him called Stolen Dough.

Brilliant.

He's called Anthony Mongiello.

He invented it in the 1980s, and Pizza Hut stole it.

He once accidentally made a pizza badly, made the crust too big, saw there's this big hole in my crust.

Let's stuff it with cheese.

And he mentioned this to his dad who actually had invented a machine for molding mozzarella so there are big how cheese

he accidentally invented stuff crust after his father invented an incredibly complicated industrial component to mold mozzarella what are the odds i'm so annoyed i'm so annoyed every time yeah it's a collab that's a collab i'm sure he invented it thanks to a combination of circumstances which are not like oh oh you trolling my pizza what can i fill it with well i don't have a snake to hand that's all i'll

like it's incredibly organic than that isn't it?

You've grown up in a family where cheese is a big thing.

You're often talking about it, especially squishy cheese.

Completely.

I'm just saying circumstances are a bigger factor than accident in that.

No one's claimed an accident.

I haven't claimed that he invented it by accident.

He very much invented the stuffed crust intentionally.

Okay, with money in mind.

Not like the invention of the car, which just somehow magically happens.

The crucial thing is got a patent.

Then he called up pizza places.

He called up Pizza Hut and said, look, do you want want this stuffed crusting I've invented?

Pizza Hutt said, no.

Eight years later, what shows up on Pizza Hut's menu?

It's a stuffed crust.

And what did they claim?

They were probably just making a pizza and noticed that there was a hole in their pizza, tripped over, so lots of hella landed in there.

They didn't even attempt to claim that.

They basically offered him 50 grand and was like, well, like, you know,

get stuffed.

That's what it should have been called, this documentary.

The stolen doe is very good as well.

I think Get Stuffed would be the Pizza Hut response documentary in the documentary Rat Battle.

Oh, yeah.

But he decided to reject their offer and sued them for $1 billion.

$1 billion.

Wow.

It's always a great number to sue.

Yeah.

It is really cool, isn't it?

It's very Doctor Evil, but it's destined to failure, which it did.

Oh.

Oh, dude.

He got nothing.

Wow.

Just take what you're offered, guys.

That's the lesson of this.

Just very quickly, do you know how they cook pizzas at Pizza Hut?

Did they put them in a a pizza oven?

They use a conveyor belt.

No.

They do?

They do, really?

Yeah.

It goes on a little conveyor belt and heads into the oven.

Oh.

And it comes out the other side cooked.

Like those things that make toast in hotels.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like that.

That's very hard.

It's silly because you can't adjust the toastedness, can you?

You should be able to adjust the speed.

Well, you can adjust the toastedness.

There are dials.

What?

And also, I mean, the problem is they often only toast one side of the bread.

So you get toast that's charred on one side and bread on the other.

You You guys are going to terrible hotels.

Yes.

Jens, we'll go on tours together.

It's annoying when you go off to the local Hilton with your fancy toasting machines.

In 2012, they launched a promotion, Pizza Hut, where if you were in the American presidential debates and you asked the candidates whether they preferred sausage or pepperoni on their pizza, you would win free pizza for life.

Okay, did anyone do it?

No, because there was an outcry.

I think it was, you know, degrading democracy.

Ha, little did they know.

And they um moved it online and just instead randomly selected someone to win free pizza for life, which I think was also a swizz because what is free pizza for life?

Oh, they always, what they do is they work out the average number of pizzas that someone eats in a year.

And like, that's always down because they include people who just don't eat pizza.

Yeah.

And then they say, okay, well, the average person eats one and a half pizzas a year if we include everyone who lives in Mauritania who's never heard of a pizza.

And so, yeah, they give you a voucher for like 12 pizzas.

Yeah, it was, it wasn't that quite, it was a free pizza a week, but only for 30 years.

I think after 30 years, you are probably done.

I think if you're eating that many pizzas, that probably is your life expectancy.

I would like the right to have 9,000 pizzas now.

Do you know what I mean?

It should be any number of pizzas you want for eternity.

I agree.

Do you know which country eats the most pizza?

Which is so surprising to me.

Italy.

Italy.

Lovely.

I'll accept James's answer as less wrong, but still wrong.

What would it be?

I think it must be.

Do you mean per capita or per capita, yes?

Okay.

I think, and it's quite hard to explain why, and no one has adequately done it.

So, my theory is that this place perhaps doesn't have access to that much good, fresh food.

And because of its geographical location,

you're quite far away.

It's not a problem.

Easter Island.

Oh, okay.

Norway eats by far the most pizza.

So 11.4 kilos per person.

Next is Canada 8.9.

So that's so much.

Most of it is frozen pizza that you buy from the supermarket and half of those are this brand called grandiosa.

And they really want a Norwegian to write in and I because I think

when we went to Norway,

maybe I'm...

Maybe I'm conflating two places here, but I feel like there was quite a lot of like these 7-Eleven places where you could just buy slices of pizza all the time.

Oh, that's good.

I think that might be part of it.

Buying bad slices is good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

Is it good pizza that they're?

I think it's not.

I think they like it to the extent that when the company that makes grandiosa, which is called Staburet, when they produced a pizza-themed song called Respect for Grandiosa in 2006, it was at the top of the country's music charts for eight weeks.

Oh, my God.

I also think it's not particularly good pizza.

Yeah, that doesn't prove it, really.

It doesn't prove the taste thing, does it?

No.

Should we mention proper true true pizza from naples yeah because it's it's very serious in naples so there is the associazione verace pizza napolitana and this was set up in 1984 by the 17 most eminent pizza clans in naples

so

sound rough on the 18th most eminent i know i know

and there's a guide to neapolitan pizza what it needs to be to become accredited so if you even if you're anywhere around the world you can make a proper neapolitan pizza but you have to adhere to this guide.

It's 27 pages long and it's incredibly strict about the kind of things you need.

What is it?

Is it like just like literally cheese, tomato and basil or something?

There are, yeah, there are

lots of rules about the dough and the scorch marks and that kind of stuff.

And this dimensions, like maximum dimension is 35 centimeters across, all of this stuff.

Even they claim that even Roman and Sicilian pizzas are just sort of bastardized for catchers.

I mean, they're probably very proud of it.

Well, I think like modern pizzas were invented in America, really, weren't they?

Because like basically what happened was Italian emigrants or immigrants to America had this thing called tomato pie, which is basically like a pizza, but the cheese would go on the bottom and the tomato would go on the top.

What?

And then they kind of over the years, especially in New York, they kind of added toppings

and they swapped the cheese and the tomato around and they created what we would now know as a pizza.

Oh, sorry.

I thought you meant the cheese went on like the underside and the tomato went on the top side.

Like a sandwich, a bread sandwich.

Yeah, how do you hold this?

That's disgusting.

And so then what happened was American tourists would go over to Italy and they'd want pizzas like they knew at home.

And so Italians would start making pizzas in this American Italian style.

And so that's why now, even in Italy, most of the pizzas will be this kind of modern style of pizza.

That's very interesting.

You know what's so weird?

You mentioned New York.

It wasn't until September 20th, 1944, that pizza got its first proper mention in a newspaper.

And even more exciting, the article uses what they say is the rare use of the plural of pizza, which is pizza.

Pizza.

Oh, yeah.

That's nice.

Yeah, yeah, we'll do that from now on.

Pizza.

I actually, I did find another mention in from 1935 from New York.

Oh, yes.

About a pizza restaurant, describing it excitedly as this new invention.

Yeah, so I think it might have come up a little bit, but it was like a calzone, I think.

It was stuffed, which I think they often were at this time.

And it said that pizza is best served as a side to roast beef.

How in that?

Because you know, calzone used to mean sausage wrapped in a tube of dough, was a calzone.

Like a toad in a hole.

Well, like a sausage roll, basically.

Oh, yeah.

And then eventually it became a folded over pizza.

But really, a true calzone should be just a sausage roll.

Sausage stuffed crust.

That's interesting.

The word pizza originally was pita, like pita bread.

Oh

and it gets a name from the old word for pitch, you know, like a pine pitch that you might paint onto a ship so that it doesn't

so that it's waterproof.

And is that because you're painting the tomato pitch onto the

boat, which is the pizza in this instance?

No, it's because when you paint pitch onto wood, it kind of comes into layers, and quite a lot of breads and cakes are quite layered.

And so you have in lots of different languages, you have pitch cakes and pitch breads.

In the Middle East, it became pitta, and then that came to Italy, and they called it pizza.

That's great.

The 2024 World Dominoes Championship

Pizzas.

So the game, the game Dominoes, is sponsored by Pizza Hut.

Pizza Hut.

No,

is it?

And they've run adverts.

They've run adverts.

People who like dominoes love Pizza Heart.

That's so funny.

Very clever.

That's

a good one.

Domino's.

Very true.

Okay, that is it.

That is all of our facts.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this show, we can be found on our various social media accounts.

I'm on at Schreiberland on Instagram.

Andy at Andrew Hunter M.

I am also on Twitter, like Andy's Andrew Hunter M.

And my Twitter is at James Harkin.

Yeah, and Anna, where can they get to us as a group generally?

You can go on Twitter at no such thing or Instagram to at no such thing as a fish or you can email podcast at qi.com.

Yep, or you can go to our website, no such thingasafish.com.

All of our previous episodes are up there, so do check them out.

You can also get access to club fish, the secret members club, where we put up bonus episodes.

And you can get access to the Discord as well, where lots of the fish listeners get together, chat about episodes, random things, make friendships.

It's a great place to be.

So, do check it out.

And of course, you can find on our website our tour dates.

We are on the road in September through to November.

We are going to be going all over the UK, we're going to Europe, we're going to be going to Australia, New Zealand.

So, do check out if we're coming to a city near you, get your ticket, and we'll hopefully see some of you there.

Otherwise, just come back next week because we will be back for another episode, and we'll see you then.

Goodbye.

Let's be real.

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That's washablesofas.com.

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