513: No Such Thing As Upside-Down Space Rain

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Hi everybody, Andy here.

Just before we start this week's episode, wanted to introduce you to our special guest.

This week's guest is the brilliant Stevie Martin.

If you haven't heard of Stevie, you are in for a treat.

She is a fantastic comedian.

Everything she makes is good.

She makes wonderful sketches, she's in shows, she's on stuff.

And if you want to hear more of her after this episode, which you will, check out her podcast, which is called Nobody Panic.

It's a great show.

It contains advice about absolutely everything in the world.

How to do your taxes, how to brush your hair, some even funnier things than that.

Can you believe it?

And it's a great show.

I think I did an episode recently which is coming up for release, but just start listening to that now.

Once again, it's called Nobody Panic.

Hope you enjoy this show.

On with the podcast.

Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn.

My name is Dan Schreiber.

I'm sitting here with Andrew Hunter Murray, Anna Tashinsky, and Stevie Martin.

And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days.

And in no particular order, here we go.

Starting with fact number one, and that is Stevie.

My fact is that Australia is wider than the moon.

Except technically it's not.

What?

Hello.

You can't road back on.

I did some verification.

I think you're absolutely right.

I'm going to back myself more, says my mum.

So it is.

If I was looking at it, it would be.

But if I was like taking into account surface area, perhaps, and the fact that it's a sphere.

That's right.

That's not what you said.

Damn, man.

I said wider.

Wider.

If we moved Australia, so it's in the place of the moon.

Yeah.

It would be

cover it from left to right and then sunk.

Yeah.

Like an eclipse.

Like it could, you could move the moon and it would block the sun.

Possibly.

Would it?

Is it tall enough?

Australia.

It may not be tall enough.

I don't know.

Is Australia quite flat?

Is it a flat boy from the top to the bottom?

It's wide.

I think that you would get bits of moon poking out.

I don't think there's any Australia arrangement that totally covers the moon, but it is definitely wider left to right.

There's no doubt.

You might be able to cut bits off or move Tasmania, for instance, to one of the poking out bits.

They'd love that.

They'd love that.

It's a politically controversial plan already.

Feels like they probably had to put up with a lot.

I don't know.

So the moon is about three and a half thousand kilometers across, and Australia is about, when we look at it in the sky, in Australia is about 4,000?

Yes.

About 4,000, yeah.

Did you know that the smallest moon of Jupiter, which is so small, it's just called Jupiter L-I-I, it doesn't have a name, is the same size as Vatican City?

Is it?

Yeah.

It's almost not worth worth it.

It's not worth it.

Do we know it's a moon?

Does anyone know what the smallest amount has to be for it to be a moon?

Oh, there are all sorts of moons.

Is it the Vatican City?

Is that it?

That's it.

If it can have a Pope, it's a moon.

It's a moon.

That's it.

It's huge.

It's a cathedral.

That question is hugely contentious in that world.

Okay, we'll get emails, just dozens, hundreds of emails now that you've asked.

Doesn't the moon have a bishop?

I'm sure we've vaguely said this in the past, that there is a guy whose role is bishop of the moon.

Oh, yes, yeah.

When they tried to claim it as theirs, yeah.

It got given its own bishop.

I mean, I think self-proclaimed.

Is that like

when I was 14, my mom bought me a little plot of land on the moon, and you get a little deed.

So I've got a deed.

Oh, no.

You do that.

So there's any mineral rights in like maybe a centimetre square somewhere.

You'll get none of it.

I will get none of it because it's not legally binding.

Because I'm sure she bought it like a paper chase.

But if the...

So the bishop thing, I think, checks out.

Imagine if there was a bishop in my bit.

That's incredible.

Well, that's why the Pope Mobile has that dome over the top of the bubble.

Because people own it.

It's so that he can, if he needs to, he can operate in a lunar environment.

Yes.

I also own a small square of the Pope as well.

I'm sorry after my 15th birthday.

Wouldn't it be crazy for the UN or whoever it is to say, right, we are going to divide up the moon, but we've decided that Paper Chase are the people who are going to administer this system.

You do need people to do admin.

You do, you do.

They might have put in the best bid.

You're absolutely right.

I don't think that's too far, a crazy idea.

They've got the paper to make the certificates.

I think it's a really.

It was high GSAM.

There it was.

Here's an interesting thing.

So the space between the moon and the Earth, right?

So that is roughly, because it changes all the time, but like it's furthest, it's big enough that you could take all of our planets in the solar system and you could put them next to each other in one big row and they would all fit between the space between the Earth and the Moon.

No.

Yeah, that is good.

Isn't that extraordinary?

Even Jupiter.

But Jupiter's so big.

No, excluding Jupiter.

Sorry, I forgot to mention.

Not Jupiter.

I always think we don't make a massive enough deal about the coincidence of the moon and the sun and the fact that we can have a full eclipse, right?

Because the only reason we can have a full solar eclipse is the fact that the moon and the sun look exactly the same size to us on Earth.

And that's just a total coincidence.

It's just proportionally the size of the moon and the distance of the moon from us makes it the same size to us.

And then in a million years, when the because the moon's moving away like a few centimetres a year, we won't have full eclipses anymore because it'll be too far away to cover the entirety of the sun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the chances were just infinitesimally tiny, and I think that is evidence for a higher power.

If ever there was it, the fact that they're basically the same size to us.

I like the idea that in the future, when it's when the moon is smaller and it goes across, it'll make the sun look like a bagel.

Yeah, a really stingy bagel, though.

Why don't you get this bagel that thin with a a huge hole?

Yeah, I like that though.

Can I tell you about

the first Australian person to go to space?

Ooh, yeah.

Paul Desmond Scully Power.

Cool.

It's the first ever

astronaut.

I'm calling him.

I have to try and find online if anyone's used that.

I don't think anyone says astronaut.

Maybe because

it's happened to one guy.

Also, it could be like Austrian as well, so it's kind of confusing.

Oh, yeah, that'll lead to heaps of confusion when we see that.

Sorry, I was was confused.

Tons and dozens of, yeah.

But he was also the first astronaut with a beard.

Wow.

In the gravity, his beard would be floating all over the place, like he was a wizard.

Was it like my beard, or were we talking Gandalf?

It's in between.

He didn't have a Gandalf beard, very sadly.

I think even NASA, NASA did try and make him shave, and he said, No, it's fine.

And so he...

They tried to make it shave.

They said it won't form an airtight seal and presumably you'll asphyxiate.

And he said,

it'll be all right.

He's one of those risks.

She'll be be right

he's such he is so Aussie it's brilliant like he said uh going to spice was just one of those things that happened because he started off as a oceanographer and then he because he liked surfing and was studying maths and then he got into the Aussie Navy and then he exchanged over to the US Navy and they said do you want we need to do someone to do a naval study an ocean study rather from space so do you want to you know get on board and he did he's he's founded a drone company called the Ripper Group um he's created shock finding AI Oh my god.

He's just like.

It's in his contract conforming to stereotype.

Is he?

We'll only let you up there if.

I know.

As the shuttle was about to take off, you know, you're sitting like, I guess you're facing the sky, so you're sort of lying on your back within a chest, right?

What did he do?

He fell asleep.

Oh, okay.

I know you were saying he liked barbecue socks.

He stood in a sofa position as it went up.

Absolutely.

And his beard would have been sort of parted as

it went.

Because all you could see is the rocket left the atmosphere.

Two strands of beard.

Anyway, what a guy.

What a guy.

What's he called?

He's called Paul Desmond Scully Power.

What a great name.

Yeah.

Paul Power.

Paul Power.

That's brilliant.

There's just speaking of the moon and Australia.

Yeah.

I found a really cool thing online and it's an interactive page.

And it's created, it's this website that's created by the people who wrote a book called Cosmos, the Infographic Book of Space, which I think has loads of really cool infographics about space in it, as you'd expect.

Whoa!

It's a shame they couldn't nail that onto the cover somehow.

They needed me writing their subtitle.

So shit,

so bad.

Anyway, they've also got a website and they have this whole interactive section.

And one of the interactive sections, which I strongly recommend that you Google, is you can see how high a human or a kangaroo could jump on various celestial bodies.

So they'll drop down you can select human or kangaroo no other things

because they're the two main ones that would go into space and then yeah you can see how high they jump so on the moon we could jump three meters pretty good yeah kangaroo 11 meters better it's always better the kangaroo i was gonna say

it's relative innovation yeah um it's really fun quite a lot it really tricks you and i wasted a lot of time because it has things like some of the tiniest moons in the solar system and it'll do see how high you could jump on this and you click jump and then you sit there as it goes up and up and it doesn't really tell you if it's going to go on forever or if it's going to stop at some point.

So I did sit there for about eight minutes watching it go up and up thinking, I wonder if I'm coming back down.

And sometimes you don't.

Really?

Gosh,

isn't it?

It's a bit sad.

Don't jump

like asteroids and stuff.

You know, the moon looks

too big.

It looks bigger than it is when we look at it.

Too big.

When you look at the moon in the night sky, sky, you think, oh, what a beautiful moon.

Then you take a photo and there's a dot.

Yes.

Oh.

I said that this morning.

Right.

Yes.

And it's really weird.

It's a weird effect.

Yeah, why is that though?

Well, we sort of prioritise it more with our eyes.

Oh, okay.

But I mean, there are various reasons why.

Sometimes the moon looks very big near the horizon because it's closer to things that...

we recognise like you know houses or trees or whatever you know you sort of see it in reference to those and you think you think it's bigger than it is but wait you're saying that it takes you so long to grapple to get your camera that by the time you've taken the photo it's actually moved up into the sky?

No, because even when you look at it in the night sky, it looks bigger to our eyes than it does on a camera.

The cameras are telling the truth.

But there is a way of negating the effect of the moon, this effect of it looking too big, which is to look at it upside down.

Oh.

Yeah.

How do I turn it up?

I do a headstand.

You go to Australia.

You go to Australia.

You put your head between your legs

as you're standing there, and it looks the right size again.

Really?

Yeah, this was a study by two Japanese scientists.

They won an Ig Nobel Prize for their papers.

They're telling people to put their heads between the legs and look at the head.

The perceived size and perceived distance of targets viewed from between the legs.

I

almost want to disagree with them, but it's a fact.

You haven't tried it.

But the next time you're out on a romantic nighttime stroll and a person near wind says, look at the lovely moon, you can say to them, no, look at it between your legs and we'll see it.

But that works only like sometimes, I think it was the last year, you can see Jupiter really well next to the moon.

And yeah, I looked at some planes, but then I also did see Jupiter.

So if I looked between my legs, it would look like like Jupiter.

Yes.

It brings it closer to you.

It looks smaller.

It looks smaller than that.

So I want to do the opposite.

Okay, fine, right.

I want you to have a leg stream ahead in order to bring it to my cup.

Check this out.

I don't fully understand the science of this, but I find it amazing because it's true.

And that is that on a rainy day, if the moon is overhead, it's going to rain less.

I know.

Yeah.

That frightens me on a very deep rain.

If it's a a rainy day.

If the moon is overhead, it's going to rain less.

So if the moon, rather than like, sometimes you see the moon, which is like closer to

the horizon.

Yeah, exactly.

And then you get high in the sky, right?

The moon's

different spots.

When it's there, let's say it's a cloudy day and it's raining, it's going to rain less.

But it's already.

It's a gravitational pull.

Is it sucking?

Yeah, sucking the rain, turning the rain off.

Yeah.

So the rain goes up in the air towards the moon.

Space rain is what happens.

Upside down space rain.

Okay.

Well, so it just doesn't, it just stays within the atmosphere.

Yeah, exactly.

So the gravitational pull with the moon, it's all to do with the kind of pressure that it's creating around in the air as well.

So the pressure can suck up the moisture that's in there.

So it's just kind of,

it's not weighted so that it falls down.

So it will still rain.

But by less.

It does make sense.

It would be freaking bizarre if it just didn't rain in a Truman Show way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's less by 1%.

That's a lot.

Oh, it's not a a lot.

Contrary, it's not a lot.

Sorry, that's a really relevant question.

It's a rain.

I was about to leave my umbrella at home before Dan said it's 1%.

Now I think I'll take it anyway.

Yeah, but you can drill a hole in your umbrella that's 1% the size of it.

And then as long as that's in the right position, then it won't matter.

Yeah.

It's worth awful.

But

they studied it for ages, 1998 to 2012.

They were looking at reports.

And then they looked at meteorological reports that go all the way back to the 1800s.

And they found that on the days where the moon was in those positions.

1% less rainy.

1% less rainy.

I just love that fact so much.

Australia's got its first ever moon rover.

Oh, it's getting its first ever moon rover.

Okay.

This is quite cool.

Yeah.

It's going to go out.

Why?

Why are we doing that?

It's just being included on a future mission.

I think, well, Australia has a space program.

Ask Paul Power.

And it's going to be included.

But I'd just like to see, can you guess the name?

There were 8,000 suggestions

of a name and one winner.

And it's gettable.

And it's gettable.

And it's an Aussie whatever.

Is it Mooney McMoon face?

It's not Mooney McMoonface.

It is something actually Australian.

And you're going to kick yourselves right up the eyes of the golden moon spider.

That's good.

So it's a rover.

It's a car.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

A rune rover.

You're so close.

Really?

This is agony.

Kangarova.

What'd you say?

Kangarova.

I'm going to give it to you.

Roover is what its name is.

Why was it way closer?

What did you say?

Rune Rover.

Rune Rover.

Yeah, absolutely not, then.

That was a shocking.

That called me.

Wait, say it again.

What is it?

Roover.

Come on.

You should put Kanga in front.

You said Kangaroo.

It was closer than Rune Rover Rune Rover.

I had to sit here not saying anything, just being like, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Anyway, it's going to be called Ruver.

And it will weigh about the same as a Western grey kangaroo.

Cool.

Or four wallabies.

It's not deliberate.

It's deliberate, yeah.

That's integral to the design.

Poor wallabies, five wallabies.

Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that's my fact.

My fact this week is that as a child, Roald Dahl was used as a guinea pig for a chocolate factory.

Cool, that's very on the nose.

Yeah.

That makes me wonder about all the other books as well.

Like, did he

have a big peach one day?

Was he a twitch?

Yeah, no, he so he went to the school called Repton.

And at Repton, there was a local Cadbury's.

It was either a factory or it was just a base where they were sending chocolate out for it to be tested around the country.

Either way, what they used to do was they used to ask for kids from the school to apply to be guinea pigs in order to test out these chocolates and see whether they were fit for the market.

And Dahl happened to be there at the time.

So he would have been like 13, 14 years old at the time.

Yeah, he spent four years at this place and it had a huge impact on him.

He did think off the back of it, what's going on inside these chocolate factories?

I bet it's a marvelous, incredible place.

And it was the seed for what then became Charlie and the chocolate factory.

God.

Was there a lot of injuries while he was there?

My chocolate had a finger in it.

Marvel.

Wow.

Do we know if any of the kids in that classroom, when the teacher said, have we got any volunteers to test out chocolate in a chocolate factory?

Was there a single child who didn't put their hand up?

Yeah.

It's like a dream for a child.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, yeah, it's a dream gig.

Professional chocolate testers are a thing.

But again, not many of them.

And it's not as good a gig as maybe Dahl made it sound.

You get quite sick, though.

You also develop an incredibly advanced palate.

Oh, so the nothing satisfies you.

You're ruined.

Basically, you get chocolate that's a few hours old.

You know, it's ultra-fresh and

it's delicious.

And you're always thinking whenever you eat anything else, you know, you're ruined for Yorkies basically you can't like it just tastes like trash to you

but one thing they do is that real chocolate experts and tasters they listen to the chocolate okay they what's it saying what's going on there

is that like a phrase like wine has a nose or whatever is it like it literally is they listen to it they listen to the the snap sound it makes when you break a piece of the chocolate they'll give it a listen to make sure is there a thing like with cheese where once i went to a party and someone was like oh we fridged fridged the brie for too long?

And they were like panicking.

Did you like fridge chocolate or not?

You know, because if you put it in the fridge and then you snap it, it goes, lovely snap.

Would they hate that?

Probably.

I'm sure they would hate all sorts of things.

I'm sure the refrigerating chocolate is

probably a deep no-no or something.

It probably is.

You'd be sacked immediately if you knew anyone who'd ever done it.

Probably.

Yeah, it's true.

But they do.

And actually, someone I know went on a chocolate, got a chocolate expert in for the day.

And

as a team building exercise, I think they did a chocolate tasting.

Oh, okay.

Just to their house.

And the chocolate

expertise came about here.

I'm the chocolate expertise.

This is going great.

Not them all, you know, all these quite serious business people who work in finance, and they all had to, they're all sitting there listening to their chocolate.

Oh, really?

Like a tuning fork.

Wow.

Yeah, they do.

Jobs don't come up much sort of publicly for chocolate factories, but occasionally

Cadbury will sort of say, we're looking for new taste testers.

And they did that at one point where they put a sort of open audition out.

And there's so many, 4,000 applicants.

Everyone went.

And they made the point of saying, this isn't going to be easy.

This isn't just you sitting and eating chocolate saying, wow, ho yummy.

Like, it's really intense.

They had to go spend two and a half hours a day having their taste buds put to different chocolate tasting tests.

They had to sit in a soundproof booth.

They had red lasers going around.

Why are they at a sound chocolate?

Why are they at a soundproof?

booth.

To hear the chocolate.

To hear the chocolate sounds.

I guess.

It's a sensory booth rather, rather than soundproof, but it's a similar similar thing.

Sorry, when you said that they said, oh, it's not just about eating loads of chocolate all day, but the first thing you said was they had to sit and have their tastes subjected to loads of chocolate for ages.

I mean, that was just eating loads of chocolate.

No, no, but as in, yeah.

Intensely.

But it's intensely.

I think they're slightly trying to SAS what is quite a nice job.

You obviously have to write down quite a lot of detail, I guess, about what your taste is.

Because they don't like work, they don't like, if you say, like, hmm, carabelli.

They're like, no, no, no.

We want the components.

We want the makeup of this.

We don't know what they're doing.

They should know what's in it already.

Like, I shouldn't be required to retro-engineer their chocolates for them.

I should be saying if I like it or not.

No, because you want to be able to say, oh, that hint of nutmeg is really speaking to me.

You know, you want to

go.

I see what you mean.

Yeah.

You don't want to just go, well, that's caramelli.

My one was shaped like a tiny seahorse, and I love that.

Guillaume.

I once did a for Aussie Shampoo.

I went in and tested their new scent.

Oh.

I just remember smelling one and being like, immediately, they were like, so what are the components?

Can you smell?

And all I could think of was, it smells like a man one.

It smells like a muskie, like a musk man one.

And they were like, yes, because of what?

It was like, because it's like other men shampoo.

And then I didn't resell anything for the rest of the hour because I was like, I actually can't smell.

That's what I discovered.

Unless it's like, yeah, a man one.

So it's like they pay, do they pay you in advance for that job?

they do pay in advance for that job yes thank god otherwise it would have yeah

um well i think it is nice enough that employees at the cadbury's factory and this was a stat from about 10 years ago so it may not be uh true now but they can still eat as much of the product as they like and they do tend to put on half a stone in the first 10 days of their employment ten days yeah and then i imagine you pair back i don't think you keep on gaining half a stone for every ten days i would have thought they'd have a bucket you know you spit it spit your chocolate into the bucket like like tobacco like a cowboy or a bit joyless.

Yeah.

Maybe they do, but then you can eat whatever you like from that bucket at the end of the day.

Like a fondue.

Yeah.

I assume they will just have no teeth, right?

Yeah.

You have to.

But the new guys come again, and they're like, well, you want to be careful about the first 10 days.

You do put on weight, but you save weight because your teeth bleed quite a lot.

It feels like a great job.

Yeah.

So, hey, Cadbury, that was the biggie.

That was the thing that started chocolate off, basically, in terms of this big, global

Willy Wonka-esque kind of world.

Well, for me, that's Cadbury's always been the global brand.

And so it was started by a guy called John Cadbury.

I was looking into him.

He was born in Birmingham.

He's the son of Richard Cadbury and his wife, Elizabeth Head.

Very sad that they didn't take on the double barreled surname because you would have had Dick Head Cadbury.

That would have been a lovely name.

and then check this out his second wife actually his middle name was tapper sounds good anyway dick tapper would you like a nice fruit and nut dick tapper

right what is his wife called balland

so his second wife was called candia he married a candy wow no yeah

so he was an amazing guy john cadbury he was um he was very into animal rights he set up the animals friends society which basically is what led into the rspca eventually coming about It was sort of the forerunner and sort of molded into that.

And then he passed his company on to his sons.

And they set up this incredible place because they were Quakers.

And so they've got this little place called Bourneville, which was given its name because it sounded French and therefore would sound really kind of upper class.

Yeah.

So they just gave it.

Dickhead Town didn't

fly for some reason.

Welcome, I'm the mayor of Dickhead Town.

And yeah, and it's a model village.

It's a model village, and it's still going to this day.

I find the terminology model village quite confusing because it means two quite different things.

He didn't set up a village of tiny houses, but you can't.

Wow,

what a great hobby.

For all the umpa lumpers.

Yeah.

So he said I've just bought like a nice small village?

What was a model village?

It was for the worker.

It was for Cambrie's workers, and it was basically

a village of houses that were built along new architectural lines.

They were designed to be, you know, a development from the horrible slums that you'd got in a lot of urban centers.

Every house had a garden, and every house had a fruit tree, and things like this.

And, you know, people were encouraged to live basically clean, healthy lives.

These were all quite teetotal places as well.

But that's the thing, though.

That's the downside.

It's boring.

Unless it's changed recently, and there's been quite a few people that have been trying to buckle it.

It's a dry town, which is nuts.

I just.

It's because the Quakers were.

Well, the Quakers were behind all three big chocolate companies, which were Cadbury's Fries and Roundtree.

Yes, it was.

And they weren't, they because at the time Quakers weren't allowed in the professions.

You could be a doctor or anything like that.

And they weren't allowed in public office.

So they were in trouble.

Well, if you can't do those two, you've got to go into sweets and protection.

Also, as if they're not drinking, they've not got a lot of good stuff going on.

So like, let's absolutely cane itch on chocolate.

Yeah.

That's advice.

You're actually missing a fourth Quaker chocolate.

And I've got a product of theirs here.

This is by a different company now, but I'm holding it in my hand.

It's a wonka bar.

And the wonka bar was created by Quaker Oats.

You know, Quaker Oats?

Really?

Yeah.

They funded the movie.

They put $3 million into the funding of the movie and they had a deal that they would have the chocolate merchandise that would come off the back of it.

And that's where we started getting wonka bars.

But they had a huge problem because the movie didn't take off to begin with.

It was doing fine, but it didn't go massive.

And this is the one with Johnny

Gene Wilder.

And the chocolate itself, they produced at the wrong temperature, as in the melting point of the chocolate was so inaccurate that when it was being transferred, it would melt in the trucks and so on.

So they had a few problems, and they sold it and sold it to different companies.

But it was set up by Quaker Oats.

So we've got a fourth Quaker company.

Wow.

Did you know that Cabry's once reverse shoplifted a bunch of their cream eggs?

So they sort of snuck them into shops.

They snuck them in, yeah.

I couldn't quite work out why they went to these lengths.

This is in 2018.

You might remember they did a kind of Willy Wonka promo thing where they hid a thousand, about a thousand white chocolate eggs in cream egg wrapping.

And I think if you opened a cream egg, there'd be a golden ticket in there and it'd be a white chocolate egg, and it was really exciting.

And then you could win £10,000.

But the way they did it was they didn't, when they made the eggs, they didn't tell anyone in the factory in Bourneville that they were making the eggs, and they didn't tell any of the people in the shops where they were planting the eggs.

They just got

this crack team of spies to break into the factory overnight under cover of darkness, go in, make these eggs, smuggle them out, and then kind of in disguise, sneak into shops and slip them onto shelves.

How many, do we know how many they made?

They said they made about a thousand.

Yeah.

You can do that in the course of a night.

That's insane.

I think it might have been multiple nights, but also, I think a chocolate factory can churn out, yes, even a thousand.

There's hundreds of thousands of cream eggs a year just for a tiny season.

You're breaking in, you've got to turn on the lights.

I'm sure they created a pretext of an away day.

We're all going on a chocolate listening course, and so no one needs to come to work tomorrow, you know.

And if you notice any white smears around the machinery, just disregard it.

Get on with your work.

So who were the people who were sneaking them under the shelf?

Oh, that's such a cool job.

I suppose you have to be very high up in Cadbury to get that gig.

And also inconspicuous looking.

Very inconspicuous looking.

Like you want someone who looks just like a normal person, I guess.

I would invent a sleeve that allowed me to drop off an egg.

Like lay an egg with your arm.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly that.

So I would be, I would pick up an egg so no one would notice, and I would go and buy an egg, you know.

Yeah.

But no one's noticed the one I've secretly laid in the egg tray.

Can I tell you like a real life Willy Wonker?

Yeah.

This is a guy.

Have you heard of Forest Mars?

No.

Was he responsible for Mars Bars?

He was.

Wow.

Forest Mars.

Forest Mars.

Also, Maltesers.

Invented those.

Okay.

Also, Pedigree Chum and Uncle Ben's Rice.

But those were like

solo albums of his main career was in the confectionery world.

He hands-on invented all of those?

I don't know how.

He invented Rice?

It was a technique with Duncan Ben's Rice.

I can't remember.

In a pouch.

I don't know how on his hands were on Pedigree Chum.

But it's a big deal.

He's a huge deal.

And he did, I think he did with Maltesers.

He took this tiny pellet of dough, this pea-sized pellet of dough, and then put it in a vacuum oven.

You know, exploded it in a vacuum, and then you cover that in chocolate which is how they're made today they're made in a vacuum anyway very cool but forrest mars was very eccentric as in uh he was a bit of a tyrant he would get his executives on their knees praying in meetings he would lead them in prayers saying i pray for milky way i pray for snickers um for the success of it or like literally for a bar of

all the success

so what but he was a tyrant i think domestically as well his adult son john once asked to miss a sales meeting so forrest senior said he had to spend the entire meeting on his knees in prayer.

So, I think I just pray into making people just get on their knees and praying as a theme.

Lot of prayer going on.

Um, he was so secretive about his life that when he died in 1999, Mars wouldn't even confirm that he died.

Gosh, I know.

So, there is a bit of it's quite an odd um bargery.

Someone once saw him in an airport and shouted out, Forrest, Forrest, Mars, and he marched over and he

made them get on their knees and pray.

That's right.

It was more conspicuous actually.

He marched over and he said, don't ever call my name out in public.

He was so concerned about being recognised or spotted or any of that.

I mean, really an unusual guy.

Why have you called your biggest product after yourself?

Not Uncle Ben.

Okay, it's time for fact number three, and that is Anna.

My fact this week is that the thumbs up emoji is contractually binding in Canada.

So be careful, Canadians.

And this was as of this year.

No, as of last year, 2023.

We're now in 2024.

But this is because of a legal case in Canada, in Saskatchewan.

And

they have the system there where a legal case will set legal precedent.

You know, that will be the one that they refer back to.

And there was a legal case where a guy called Kent Mickleborough, a grain buyer,

who wanted to buy some grain.

So he texted a bunch of farmers and said, anyone got any flax to sell me?

86 tons of flax I want at.

86?

Why 86, Kent?

Is it called Kent Mickleborough?

Kent Mickleborough, that's a nice.

That's a pretty cool name.

Frankly, wasted on a flax buyer.

This guy's litigious.

Flax buying is the coolest career.

Sorry, yeah, yeah.

So he needs the 86th tonne for whatever reason.

He wants 86 tons, exactly, at precisely $17 Canadian dollars a bushel.

And one farmer responded, Chris Achter, that's A-C-H-T-E-R.

Chris Achter responded.

They chatted on the phone and Kent was like, cool, I'll text your contract.

Kent texts him the contract saying, please confirm this is the grain

you want to sell at this price.

And the farmer responded with a thumbs-up emoji.

Fast forward a few months.

Grain doesn't arrive.

Kent's like, where the hell's my grain, mate?

You agree to this contract?

Farmer says, no, I was just saying, I've received the message.

I wasn't agreeing to the contract.

Confirming that he's thumbsupping that this is the contract.

That I am that man.

Yeah.

Yes, that's me.

But he's not signing.

No.

I understand that.

Like, I get that position.

Like, I've received this contract.

Thank you.

But I never signed it.

Well, so these were the two positions that went to court.

I think I'm on Chris Actors' side.

Well,

let's argue it out, as they did in the Canadian courts.

Your side lost, I'm afraid.

And he had to pay $82,000 Canadian dollars in damages because it was determined that that thumbs up, because the guy said in his text message, you said, please confirm this is okay.

And then with a picture of the contract.

And I'm with you.

A thumbs up can just be like, I'm really late.

I can't be asked to respond now, but I'll do something to put them off.

I think it's an incredibly...

I don't want to weigh in with like an opinion here, but I think it is quite a passive-aggressive thing to do a thumbs-up emoji.

I tried, I sent you one earlier this week Dan as an experiment to see how it felt oh yeah I didn't feel great after sending it oh you know really what you felt like it's a bit of a thumbs down I feel like it's a bit of a yeah yeah yeah whatever mate no jog on you know it's sort of a that was a weird response to me telling you my dog does

jog on mate

I like instead of a thumbs up I've started um doing a top hat

instead of a jaunty just like a yeah cool I've got my glad rags on

I think what I'm saying there.

No, I like that.

I would feel a bit special receiving this.

Yes, that's what I like to do.

But also, when my driving instructor,

I have to formally confirm contractually over text, and he'll say, like, this time in this place, confirm.

And I just put a Y, and that means that is like, if I

missed that, and then why aren't we?

And he doesn't seem to think that, no, why, but yes.

And when I do that, I am in this obligation to not cancel within seven days.

And I did have to, because I got COVID, and I was liable for like 250 quid.

And like, so it, but also, isn't it, isn't it?

Because, like, if you...

What's the word?

This has turned into more of a personal complaint about your driving.

I read about a while back, a long time ago, but maybe in 2019, about how like emojis are used in court for like

someone sent their partner or

ex-partner a gun emoji and actually got sentenced for threatening.

because people do use them in terms of words.

If you're gonna, you've got to, I suppose, come down on one side of it.

You can't just go, well, if it's a threat, yes, but if it's if it's a thumbs up because of flax, no.

Yeah.

Like, I suppose it's quite tricky.

You can see, I'm just excited that you have first-hand recent experience of this actual fact.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You've set legal precedent, you and your driving instructor.

Top hat means yes.

Judge Vincent, please.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

It is an interesting point, though.

Like, what if he had sent a heart, for example, in response, you know,

what would be where's the boundary legally binding

and you

exactly

thumbs up has that meaning, I can sort of understand why it went that way as well.

You know, like a it's a sort of it's a yes, it's a sounds conduct, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um,

in fact, that was a thing that was brought up in court because the defense raised concerns that what if you send a fist bump?

Is that a contract, or is that I'm gonna punch you and that's threat, and then you get sent to prison, exactly,

or that lady tango dancer in the red dress.

I would take that as an absolute yes.

We are

going.

We're sending twice as much flax as they've asked.

We're dating now.

We're dating the flats.

Yeah.

No, but I think the judge said, don't be silly.

This is about a thumbs up.

And that's all it is, you know.

Well, just to Andy's point about the thumbs up, actually, in China, you'd be right.

Apparently, the thumbs up emoji in China is bad.

Oh.

Amongst the youth.

Because it is.

But they asked some Chinese people.

Like passive-aggressive.

Yeah, I think.

Um, basically, Gen Z's in China said that if someone sent them a thumbs up, it means I don't like talking to you, I don't want you to go away.

It reads like, um, like okay and no punctuation, that's what it reads like.

Okay, you're like, Are you angry?

If I ever send okay and a full stop, that's as angry as I can possibly express myself.

Like, that's absolutely white-hot with fury.

You know, you know, the Gargas cave paintings in the Pyrenees, the ancient.

Yeah, yeah.

Who doesn't know?

No, can you explain?

No, no.

But there are these cave paintings in the Pyrenees, in the Gargas Caves, and they're very, very, very old.

They're between 20 and 40,000 years old.

They're quite hard to date, but

they're old.

And they're all stencils of hands, right?

Okay, yes.

And

they're amazing images.

If you look them up, they're sort of dozens of hands overlaid on each other.

I haven't seen this yet.

I think they made them by putting the hand on the cave wall and then spitting...

ochre paint.

Really?

Yeah, it says, yeah.

Gross.

But the weird thing is, about half the hands appear to be injured or mutilated.

You know, they're short a finger or two, or some of them are short all four fingers.

And there's a theory that it's a language about hunting, or it's

an indication of something or another.

But there is a theory that that could be the first thumbs up.

It's either someone who's been tragically, ritually mutilated with the loss of all four of their fingers, or it's the first devil thumbs up for sure.

It's an emoji.

Yeah.

That's fun.

So

it's hard to know.

Are Egyptian hieroglyphs like emojis?

I think they are, because they're open to interpretation.

Yeah.

And they're pictures.

Great, thank you.

Goodbye.

Do you think they actually had a writing system, but it just got so popular with the emoji side of things?

Because that's where we're heading.

They were really frowned upon at first, the hieroglyphs, among the older generation.

Hieroglyphs are passages.

Doming it down.

Right,

where does the word emoji come from?

What does it mean?

Oh.

Emotion and something Japanese.

Bang, you fell right into my trap.

It's nothing to do with emotion.

Oh, wow.

I find this so weird.

So it's from the Japanese words for picture and

character.

So air is picture, emoji is character, right?

That's weird.

It is nothing to do with emotion.

But weirdly, do you remember the emoticon?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like a colon and then a closed bracket is a smiley face.

Yeah.

That is an emotion icon.

And that came first.

That's the first one.

But then emoji came second and is nothing to do with emotion.

This is like the sun and the moon being the same size coincidence.

This is tall falling into place.

This is like a lot of emojis that have got nothing to do with the motion, like a suitcase or like the Easter Island head.

Exactly, yeah.

So that does now kind of check out, doesn't it?

I like what they decide to add each year.

So, like, there was a big uproar because there was no avocado for ages.

And I think there wasn't a seal for a long time.

That really got me down.

And I think there's

a seal like when you seal an envelope.

No, and it's a seal.

I'm right.

Again, Anna, we're getting more of a glimpse into your communication style.

And mine.

Well, a wax seal.

There was no wax seal.

I send it by seal.

Do you know what the least popular emojis are?

Because I really look this up because

when you go to send one and you see this vast selection and you think, God, none of these must ever get a look in, ever.

And there's actually a Twitter account called At Least Used Emoji, which kind of sadly for it doesn't seem to have tweeted since 2020.

But in 2020, the same one had been top of its list for 264 days, which I guess is when it gave up and thought this is the ultimate loser.

Any guesses?

What am I doing with my life?

Even bots get depressed.

Okay.

Is this guessables?

I don't know.

I mean, I guess it's one that you won't have seen very often.

Is it an object?

No, no.

You'll never get it, I've just realised.

The least used one is...

the symbol that is an ampersand, an equal sign,

a musical note, and a percentage sign.

What does it come as one?

They come as a...

What is it?

What does it mean?

Well, I suppose no one's ever known.

Which is why.

Because you don't really get package emojis.

Like, that's like four really unpopular ones that have got together in a supergroup to try and bump themselves up.

Yeah.

It's the opposite of a supergroup, isn't it?

They thought they would be the travelling Wilburys and they, yeah.

Also, the tramway symbol, I really thought, Andy, that you can't have been on Line March in 2020, given that that was the joint least popular

an aerial tramway symbol.

Oh, I do.

I've read something about that, and it was a, it's an it's a sort of hanging railway.

It's a suspended railway.

Yeah.

And I saw someone claiming that there's only one suspended railway in widespread use in the world, and it's in China, which is why the emoji is not used.

Actually, there is one in Germany, the Wuppertal Schweberbahn, which is a very popular suspended railway.

Wow, that's great.

I can't believe that.

And that's, it sounds stupid now.

That's where the train's like underneath the tram.

Yeah.

Right.

I've accidentally used that emoji before and been like,

what's that?

But that is actually real.

I didn't know.

Go to Wuppertal.

And

you'll have a wail of a time it's it's a really good i think they put an elephant in it once i've just had a memory that oh it feels wow unnecessary doesn't it can't can they oh to prove that it clings to the top like you can even put an elephant in it i think

fall off do you know i'm really doubting i'm really doubting myself i've got to find out i've got to find out i'm not sure what you do um

go quiet for a bit and then go oh did you fight is it did you put an elephant in it they did supposedly they put an elephant they did put an elephant in it They put an elephant in the Wuppetal Schreberbahn in 1950 as a stunt, either to promote the monorail or the circus.

Both, I guess.

And I fell in.

Panic had broken out in the carriage, which apparently also had passengers in it.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

This is bizarre.

This is insane.

I'm just on the Wikipedia for it now.

The elephant, who was called Tuffy, was fine and survived another 39 years.

I thought you meant he was fined.

I was going to be like, that's not his fault.

And paid for a ticket, mate.

I'm glad he was okay.

She became famous in 1950.

Oh, she.

She actually accidentally, obviously, fell from the Vuppetaschweberbahn into the river Vuppa.

Oh, no.

But she survived.

Yep.

For 39 years.

So you've got to keep that in mind.

How did she fall?

Did they not shut the doors?

Well,

what it says here is that

she was put on the monorail as a publicity stunt.

Yeah.

Tick.

Elephant trumpeted wildly and ran through the carriage, broke through a window and fell 12 meters down into the river, suffering only minor injuries.

A panic had broken out in the carriage, naturally, and some passengers were injured.

That's a big ass window.

Yeah.

It's a big window.

Yeah.

You're a small elephant.

Small elephant.

Asian elephant, not African elephant.

Depends how you're looking at it.

Are you through your legs?

Okay, it is time for our final fact of the show, and that is Andy.

My fact is that there is a fish that spends its entire life upside down.

Is it trying to make the moon look smaller?

That's right.

This is a fact, it was sent in actually by Kate Blazinski.

So thank you, Kate.

It's about a kind of anglerfish.

Sorry, that does sound like a pseudonym for Anna.

Kate Blazinski.

You're absolutely right.

This was sent in by Anna.

So anglerfish are the ones which they have a tentacle and they have like a fishing rod sticking out of their head and then they use the end of the rod that's got a little glowing ball of light on it and they use that to attract prey to them.

It's pretty incredible.

We say it casually.

It's amazing.

You've got a light bulb patting over your face.

It's absolutely amazing.

Well, and it's bacteria that is lighting it up as well.

It's not like an actual light bulb.

It is an actual...

You've got to feed the rod for them to...

So weird.

Yeah.

But it's genuinely amazing.

And sometimes they accidentally chew their own

tentacle sort of visual thing.

Because they close their mouth and it'd be like, oh, you you know, and then they obviously sometimes they trap themselves.

Ow!

Anyway.

Like biting your tongue, basically.

So this is the whip-nose anglerfish.

And for years, it was just assumed that it went the right way up.

It just went around the right way up.

People assumed that.

Because we've only seen dead ones, presumably, with anglerfish, right?

You don't often see them.

Because they live very, very deep in the deep ocean.

And it was assumed to be upright.

An upright fish, like all fish.

But they got some camera footage in 1999 of one of these swimming around the ocean, upside down with the fishing rod dangling down beneath it.

Very weird.

They thought,

what a weird one-off fish.

But they keep finding these deep-sea drones, keep filming these anglerfish swimming around upside down.

And it appears they spend their whole life swimming upside down to attract prey.

But apparently it is better for it so that it doesn't bite itself.

That's in part of the description of the witness.

Yeah, it's just helpful.

It just gives it a tiny bit more of an advantage.

It's quite cute.

They're very cool anyway.

They're weird.

Anglerfish are insane.

They do this thing, and I know I always get too surprised by this, but evolution.

What a great idea.

So one of the things is that it's got like it's bioluminescent in that rod, but also it will eat a lot of fish that are bioluminescent.

And an anglerfish has a really elastic kind of tummy, very rubbery, so it can eat things that are almost twice its size, right?

And so it goes quite transparent, except it doesn't because there's black lining on the inside, so you can't see the bioluminescence inside it brilliant So it can't attract predators, you know, if there's something inside swimming around that's still not dead kind of like a car that has tinted windows You don't know what's inside the car, but you can you like I did it on purpose so that it's not gone transparent like I went to the gym once and my leggings had gone see-through and everyone could see my knickers and butt.

Right.

That's the opposite.

Yes.

So if you'd had this.

If I was an anglerfish, I could have just made my leggings more opaque, for example.

One of the many reasons to want to be one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That really puts it in context.

It's all the same.

To really bring it down to earth or up to earth.

They are.

This one that you mentioned, Andy, the whip nose, is a classic anglerfish in that it's just the females you're talking about, right?

Yeah.

It's pretty much whenever anyone talks about cool stuff with anglerfish, it's just the ladies because they are way bigger than the males.

So in the whip nose ones, then the females are like half a metre and the males are two centimetres.

And I think there's another kind of anglerfish which has the Guinness record for the biggest dimorphism between males and females and this I find so hard to believe but Guinness says that the females are more than 60 times the length of the males and half a million times as heavy.

That's crazy.

Mating was so wild.

The mating is I think the mating is basically the

male sort of latches onto the female.

Yeah.

Just kind of bites the side of her.

and then fuses and then dissolves into her and all that's left is a tiny pair of testicles hanging off the side.

incredible.

That's basically it.

Their skin and their organs all fused together.

And for a long time, I think they assumed that there wasn't a male in the picture at all, right?

They just thought it was the female.

Actually, you're looking.

That's him.

That's him.

I know there's testicles anyway.

This is great.

Yeah.

We all know couples like that.

Oh, yeah.

Is that true?

I wonder if there's what the perfect distance is, kind of like with the eclipse of a moon and the sun, that you could have the male anglerfish near you and the female, that they will appear to be the same size.

Yeah, yeah.

You get females, don't you, which have lots of pairs of testicles just hanging off them.

Yeah, you get six or seven males will have been fused into one female at once.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

You have multiple.

Have you had many previous boyfriends?

No, actually, don't.

You don't need to tell me.

Or it's like a brownie sash with your banters that you pull out.

Exactly.

That's how you explain this to your five-year-old, which is like brownies.

Oh, no, they're brilliant.

They're so good.

They are.

And they do, when they're larva, they look really cool.

And there's not enough focus on this in the anglerfish world of chat.

When they're larva, they're surrounded by this jelly egg.

So that is transparent.

And so you'll see this tiny little anglerfish.

And then it's got this big see-through pile of jelly around it.

Like absorbing.

Like absorbing, exactly.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's absorbing.

You guys have seen an anglerfish?

No, in person.

Not in the flesh.

No, I've met one.

By the way.

Yeah, yeah.

I met one.

I i met a very famous one um i met the one that basically was in blue planet that was um discovered by all the i can't want my name dropped

anecdotes

so exciting namesdropping

are you a close personal friend of this anglerfish i was at a cocktail party with her we got chatting we were working she doesn't even remember you Danika

how many testicles did she have on

no um so uh years ago I got to work with um Aleister Fothergill he came on Museum of Curiosity and um he's the person who found the hairy anglerfish.

So he went down, he filmed it.

It's a euphemist

and a half, isn't it?

Did he show you his hairy anglerfish?

Flimy.

So they brought it back up and it died in the process.

No, when they died, do their lights go out?

Yeah,

like a Pixar.

They might do, but they would live on, wouldn't they?

They would.

That's even sadder.

This is the nuts thing, is that the bacteria...

Yeah.

And I was reading and thinking, how do they get these bacteria?

Yeah, yeah.

Because normally when hosts have symbionts, you know, things living on them that rely on them, they either find them in the local area or

they inherit them from the local areas.

Bacteria want to live on your nose.

No,

but they sometimes inherit them from their parents with other animals.

But anglerfish never have any contact with their parents.

It would be insane for them to...

That's been

come say hi to your father.

Give them a little jiggle.

A real male role model doesn't matter.

But no, they don't get their lure until much later in life, even.

So they must find them in their area.

They must pick them up from around the place and they have them on the end of their nose.

What if they didn't find enough?

That would be like a Pixar film, like the anglerfish that couldn't find the bacteria.

That's a good one.

That's good.

Maybe edit that out so I can write it.

No, I'm joking.

Please don't.

I will never write that.

Yeah.

I found something that swims, but it can never be upside down.

Ooh.

What could that be?

Something bigger than that.

My vision.

Like a manta ray?

Maybe they're big and flat, but they can't.

They swim, but they...

No, okay.

No.

A starfish.

Not a starfish.

Stupid.

A ball.

You've got to think more like that.

A ball.

A ball has no upside down.

Do they swim?

Oh, okay.

I water boatmen, actually.

Should I just give you the answer?

Yes, you probably are.

The answer is the word swims.

Snooze.

Swims is an ambigram.

You flip it upside down, and it's exactly the same.

I've got a very hot.

Wow.

With arousal.

Yes, I'm incredibly aroused.

That's amazing.

I love that stuff.

That is.

That was really good.

That was perfectly crazy.

Great.

That's great.

That's really lovely stuff

who would have thought the riddle's in

finally

you can stay you've passed the audition i said a boat

that's why i'm going to host this podcast they don't swim and they can be upside down

famously

just Another thing on how fish swim.

Do you know how to tell if a fish is depressed?

Oh no, no.

It's not too sad.

Okay.

Well, Because we've got a cure.

Great.

There you go.

What a roller coaster.

I know.

So you only saw the fact yet.

Please.

That's the cure.

Come on the podcast.

Raise your spirits right up.

What's the cure?

Well, antidepressants.

And we only have a cure because we've trialled human antidepressants on them to make them better.

But

how do you know that they're depressed?

So they swim at the bottom of their tanks.

So depressed fish swim low, and happy fish swim at the top of the surface of the water or the top of their tanks.

And this is actually really useful, according to scientists who do trial antidepressants, because it's a really obvious sign that they're depressed.

So we can trial antidepressants on them and we know if they're working.

And they just go higher.

Because they just get higher and higher.

So you go, oh, Prozac, that's doing the trick.

Look, it's like in the air.

Oh, the water, yeah.

Is it true, or have I just like made this up in my brain that like goldfish like

grow to fill their tanks?

If you actually give them a bigger tank, they just keep going.

That is true.

And that's so sad in retrospect because, you know, like when you, when when I was growing up, we had just like a little tank with three fish in it.

You're like, God, we were sort of shrinking.

Yeah.

And that's the thing when people throw them into the wild, into little lakes and so on, they just turn into these turbo sharks.

Yeah, exactly.

You were doing a public service by keeping them from, you know,

taking over.

Upside downness?

Sure.

This is a very weird thing.

Which is better for a rhino to be?

Upside down or

not upside down, lying down?

Is it in the circus?

It's not in the circus.

It's not.

Let me take you to the Vuppetasch Freema button.

No, okay.

It's better for a rhino to be upside down than it is for it to be lying on its side.

Isn't that weird?

How does it get there?

Why?

Well,

I think we might have mentioned a while ago.

We've done this about the rhinos.

They transport rhinos to new areas by putting them in a helicopter, stringing them up by their ankles.

No, no, not in the helicopter.

No.

They hogtie them.

Right.

They

lift them up upside down and then they fly to the new nature reserve where they have to get them to.

It's the easiest way to transport them.

It takes like 10 or 15 minutes.

It's really fast.

And

regardless of whether they go

and on traffic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But they're normally not taking them like from South Africa to Tunisia.

You know, it's normally a short journey.

But nobody had checked how their hearts and lungs actually cope with this journey.

And a team of scientists led by Robin Radcliffe from Cornell realised, oh, we should probably look into whether or not they're

like crazy upside down.

Yeah, yeah.

And

so they held 12 rhinos upside down by their feet for an experiment from a crane.

And they're all sedated, obviously, but they were just testing their heart and lungs.

And it turns out that it's much better for it to be upside down because when a rhino's on its side, their lungs are a bit distorted.

You know, the gravity means

the lungs are not getting equal amounts of oxygen for the air exchange and all of that, gas exchange.

But when they're upside down, it is equal because they're just upside down.

Lovely.

So when they sleep, do they go upside down now?

They go upside down, yeah, yeah.

Like on their backs?

Like rhinos, yeah, yeah.

If you go for a walk in certain bits of Namibia, you'll look up in the trees and you can see hanging from the trees.

Stop it.

Yeah, yeah.

That just seems to be wrong on the back.

That's all I meant.

I don't think

they lied.

They should.

They should.

There were like rhino articles on the web.

You've been sleeping all wrong your whole life.

There is another fish that swims upside down.

Well, it's not actually a fish, it's krill.

Not technically a fish, I suppose.

Forestalling the letters, very nice.

Antarctic krill swim upside down in the Antarctic when the water's covered in ice, so that they can graze like cows on the underside of the ice.

Gorgeous.

And they eat algae that grows on the underside of the ice.

And they live such a weird life.

They migrate, have quite a weird migration, but up and down.

So they graze on algae swimming upside down and then they get quite fat and heavy from it and then they sink because they're too heavy and they have to fan themselves out like a parachute and they sink about 50 meters down and then they think, oh god, I'm really hungry again.

So then they've used up all their food supply.

So then they have to swim up to the top again, eat and then sink and that's their lives.

And they do it about three times a day for their whole lives.

Wow.

And then they die.

But I go to the fridge more than three times a day.

You know, I'm just saying I empathize.

That's my life too.

Is that your whole life?

Upside down.

Going back and forth for a food source.

Yeah.

It kind of is when you think about it.

You're so right.

That's what we all do, isn't it?

I'm at work.

I then go downstairs.

I guess food.

Andy's always got a plate of something that he just comes up with.

Something on the go.

Oh, I thought you, Dan, were saying that is kind of our lives.

I thought you were saying girls on the street.

I thought that was a good idea.

The only reason they don't have a podcast is it's too wet for all the equipment.

Something that's no longer upside down.

Girls near Richard Branson.

So

please explain that.

He confirmed in 2022 that he would no longer be inverting girls for publicity purposes.

On planes, is it?

Just all over.

I mean, often near planes.

He used to do this all the time when he was doing PR photo shoots.

He would just have a next to a model and then he'd lift her up and, you know, sort of lift her.

Pull her upside down, would he?

Yeah, he wouldn't leave her there.

I mean, he would.

It's like the skirt comes up and you can see the knickers.

I don't know.

I was more thinking.

Probably in swimwear.

Here's my theory.

You do an upside down handstand with your legs open.

You're making a V for virgin sign.

So it's a publicity thing.

And that looks good.

Yeah, I don't think that's why.

Are you sure this is going to work, Dan?

Absolutely, Richard.

Nothing can go wrong.

Yeah, and he said he used to do it like all the time.

It was never out of the papers of just turning girls upside down.

And he said in 2022, I doubt you'll see me turning girls upside down or picking up ladies today, whereas 38 years ago, if I didn't didn't do that, I wouldn't get in a newspaper.

And then he said, I can still turn girls upside down.

Simply insisting.

I still do it, but times have moved on.

Good.

I love the fact he felt the need to say, I can still do it.

Don't get me wrong.

Anytime I like.

The BBC report on this said, Branson's last believed public inversion of a female model

was in 2012.

Good year.

Good year.

Olympics.

And then that.

That's That's right.

End of the Mayan calendar.

That was a big, yeah.

That's what that film was about, wasn't it?

Okay, that's it.

That is all of our facts.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our Twitter, our Instagram, our threads, or any Facebook.

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Mastodon only.

No, I'm on Twitter and Instagram at Stevie M.

The S is a five.

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Right.

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Goodbye.