470: No Such Thing As A Walking Stick Full of Bagels

Okay, it's kind of embarrassing how bad I am at budgeting. Let me see your charges.

Fine. You spent over $600 on takeout last month.
I can't cook. You know this.
Yes, I have had your disgusting food, but you're literally paying for a meal subscription on top of that.

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Hi, everybody. Andy here.
Just before we start this week's show, we have two exciting announcements to make. The first is about who our special guest is this week.

She is a brilliant Canadian writer, screenwriter, showrunner, now also a first-time author.

She is Monica Heisey, and her debut novel, Really Good Actually, is out within the last few weeks, and it is unsurprisingly really good.

Actually, it's all about the life and travails of a woman who has become a surprisingly young divorcee. It is extremely funny.
It's kind of you know accidentally

like snort milk out of your nose funny. It's great.
Highly recommended. So we hope you enjoy the show.
Monica was great as you will hear shortly.

The second announcement we have to make is that we are doing a live show of no such thing as a fish. Very exciting.
We are going to be at the Hallowed British Library in London.

They are having a season all about animals and as part of that we are doing a show called Fantastic Beasts. It's going to be Dan, James, myself and a special guest to be announced.

It's going to be on the 21st of April and if you don't live anywhere near the British Library there is also going to be a streamed version of it. So just go to no such thingasafish.com slash live.

You will see there the tickets are available for our British Library show. So check it out.
Okay, that's it. That's all of the announcements.
On with the show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from four undisclosed locations in the UK. My name is Dan Schreiber.

I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Monica Heisey. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days.

And in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Monica.

So, my fact is that in ancient Hebrew times, men could get a divorce if their wife had been alone in a room with another man. And I was really interested in these facts because my

divorce lawyer told me that this may still be true.

I couldn't find anything back enough, but she basically said if he could prove that a man and a woman had been alone together in a room for more than an hour, it could be reasonably assumed legally that adultery had occurred.

I think we should just say that we're not all in the same room at the moment. I think that's very important.

No.

I think people were a bit desperate because it used to be that you could only get divorced for five reasons, one of which was adultery.

And so I think people just could stretch it a bit.

You're really just trying to get out.

It's really, the history of what you needed to say or allege or agree that you had been doing to get divorced is absolutely mad.

For a long time it was only adultery or adultery was the only substantial grounds and then they introduced other ones a bit later on.

But there was one rule where if one of you had committed adultery, then your partner could divorce you. But if you both had, you might not be able to.

Because legally the divorce was kind of an acknowledgement that one person had committed a wrong where the other was being

like an eye for an eye and a shag for a shag and a...

Yeah, and if you'd both done it, then you weren't allowed to lie saying, oh, I've committed adultery,

adulterily, sorry, that's a Ned Flanders version of adultery. You weren't allowed to lie saying you'd committed adultery.
That's perjury. So they made it very, very difficult.

Wow, that's religion for you.

And also, it was a very specific definition as well. Adultery legally is a married person having...
full sex with someone of the opposite gender.

So if your husband had a gay affair and you were a woman, you couldn't sue him for divorce on grounds of adultery, but you could sue him for unreasonable behavior. Oh,

really?

Yeah. Wow.
This thing in the Jewish law, this is from the Mishnah, which is the oldest written collection of Jewish oral traditions.

And the thing is that because if the woman had been in a room with another man, in theory, there can't be any other witnesses, right?

Because it's basically one person's word against another person's word. And okay, you have the perjury thing, but what they would do is they would give you the ordeal of bitter water.

And this was to tell if you were telling the the truth or not. So they would give the woman some water with some dust in it.
And it's not really clear what the dust is. It might be bits of barley.

It might be bits of something else. And the idea is if the woman drinks it and the water is so bitter that she has to like spit it out, then that proves that she was in the wrong.

God's like witch trials. A little bit like that.
So trial by ordeal, though.

I feel like I give myself this test every morning when I try for one sip of the water that's been out by my bedside table all night.

I'll tell you, the worst divorce situation I read about in this research was to do with if you were divorcing the king of Thailand. Oh, yeah.

The problem is, is that if you go to divorce the king of Thailand, you have to obviously accuse the king of Thailand of reasons for the divorce.

Unfortunately, by law in Thailand, you were not allowed to accuse the king of anything.

So when the current king's divorce case was going on, I think he was the crown prince at the time, he went to court and he made all these accusations against against the wife and the wife had to just say,

yep, he was fine, couldn't say anything, couldn't defend herself. Yeah.

So he obviously, he obviously won. I've got a fact about the king of Thailand.
Do you remember The King and I, that

the play or musical play? Yeah.

It's basic, it's about someone called Anna Leonoens who went to work for the King of Thailand.

And the real life Anna Leonoens was the great aunt of Boris Karlov, who played... Was it Frankenstein? or

yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just a fact. Okay.
That's a good fact.

It's just two people you would expect to be related to each other, I reckon. Yes, yeah, that's very true.
Like Ben Elton and Luke Longley are brothers-in-law.

That will mean nothing to no one except Australians. Yeah.
I've never heard of Luke. Who's Luke Longley? One of the great Australian basketball players.

Played with the Chicago Bulls in the Michael Jordan period. You know, he's a legend.
One of the great Australian basketball players. How big is this Cold War?

There's three of them. And

one of them is related by marriage, but not blood to Ben Elton. Amazing.
Gosh. Why didn't you pick that as your headline fact this week, Darren?

I've been pitching it for nine years, you guys swatting it away every week. I found a modern divorce story, which I can't believe that this is true, but it was reported in a bunch of places.

So, this is to do with a Bosnian couple, Sana Klarik, and her husband Adnan.

And Adnan had not been happy in the marriage. And he started looking around for love.
And he went online. And so he started chatting to someone online.

He used a fake name just to make sure that no one could clock onto who he was. He met someone.
He said, I suddenly was in love again. It was beautiful.

I thought I'd finally found someone who understands me and who's in a similar situation in a bad marriage like I am. So they decided to meet up.
No. And they meet up.

And he sees sitting in the spot where his online love should be, his wife, wife who has also gone online, created a pseudonym, looked for love. They found each other.

And what's remarkable is that is how they found out that each of them were basically cheating on each other and divorced off the back of it, despite falling back in love with each other in this online scenario.

They looked at it as negative. Reverse Pina Colada Salon.

It's like a Richard Curtis film until the last sentence, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Yeah. Super plot twist at the end there.

there was a guy in new york he was from new york anyway and um he divorced his wife uh in dominican republic uh and she didn't find out for 22 years so he filled in the form and got her to sign something which she didn't know she what she was signing and he got an official divorce and then she only found out when she got a letter through about the house that they owned and her name wasn't on the deeds and she sort of rang her lawyer and said what's going on and he said well it turns out you're not married and you haven't haven't been for 22 years.

But they can't have been living together. Yeah.
What?

He just didn't tell her that they weren't married anymore.

And what she said of the case, and I couldn't find out what in the end happened, but she said that she thought that he'd done it deliberately so that he would own everything.

If he left her in the future, she wouldn't have any rights. That's what she said.
But then he stayed with her for decades?

Yeah, because apparently, I mean, I can't really speak for him, but what she said is that the marriage was kind of happy, but he just did it as a kind of backup in case he needed it in the future.

Oh my gosh! Oh no,

that's bad there, isn't it?

I became really obsessed with unreasonable behavior as a category.

Um, so they changed the law in um in 2022, and now you can have a no-fault divorce in the UK, which means that you don't have to identify a guilty party, you can just both agree that you want to dissolve your marriage.

But prior to that, you had to pick one of these five categories, kind of whether or not there was something going on. And unreasonable behavior is such a very capacious category.

And I think 51% of women filing for divorce in this country, that was their grounds. They're only 36% of men.
And a lot of it has to do with gaming.

People were divorcing because either their husbands were gaming too often, but a lot of them, like a non-negligible portion, were people who were having digital affairs.

So you're basically meeting someone via,

not by Fortnite.

Your Sim's avatar is having sex with someone else's else's Sim.

So what are the, are there limits to this, this, what was it called again?

Unreasonable behavior. Unreasonable behavior.
What are you worried about, Dev?

Excessive Ben Elton memorabilia purchases from eBay? Is that do I need to watch out? I do think it's a very bendy category.

It basically is like a prolonged commitment to behavior that is a problem to the marriage. So that can include like actively building a life separate to your partner.

If you're if you're developing too many not shared interests or you're really going hard on, um, I don't know, you have a new hobby and you're going away and pursuing rock climbing all the time and your partner is no interest in it whatsoever.

Eventually, after a certain amount of rock climbing, I suppose it can become unreasonable. I think uh reckless spending counts as well.
Oh, absolutely.

If you're spending loads of money on Ben Elton, Monabelia down. Damn it! I'm done.
Yeah. Did you guys ever hear of the Brighton Quickie?

No.

This is a divorce practice. And I've done a fair bit of reading about it.
I can't quite work out how real it was. Basically, in 1923, the law was changed saying you could petition on adultery only.

It was the only grounds for divorce. And that led to this thing where it's kind of like Monica's original fact about the being in a room together.
You would go down...

As the husband, you would agree to be the adulterer. You'd book a hotel room in Brighton, because it's easy on the train from London.
You spend the night there with a woman you don't know.

You don't have sex or anything, but there's a hotel receipt saying you've booked a room for two. The next morning, maybe you're witnessed by the chambermaid.
Put two pairs of shoes outside the door.

Exactly, exactly.

And there's all this, there's then a small body of evidence that you can use to get your divorce. And then Tam's link back.

Yeah, you haven't even got to commit adultery, but you will be divorced in due course. But I just can't tell how much it actually happened, if at all.

It's in a few novels and it's written about at the time, but it's not. Also, how important is the chambermaid in this?

Like, are all the the rooms in this hotel packed with people going for a Brighton quickie, and she's got to sort of be

the witness? Yeah, she's the witness for like 40 things a day where she has to.

Was that yeah, no, I saw the shoes outside that door, and then what was it, the pancake?

I took a tea in, they were on the top of the bed, but the there was a pillow on the floor, so that's suggestive.

Yeah, I read that in Delaware and Colorado, you can get your marriage annulled if you did it for a dare.

But in none of the none of the other 48 states is that explicitly in the the rules. Like, probably you still could get an annulment if you said that, but it would have to go under something else.

But in those two states, it explicitly says it is illegal to get married on a dare. I mean, all marriages are kind of a dare.
Father?

Yeah. That's what a proposal is.
It's a big dare. Yeah, I dare you to stay with me until one or both of us dies.
I bet your wife is wishing she shows truth, duh. Yeah,

every day.

I got a thing, which is

one of a really classic Marvin Gaye albums, which was called Here, My Dear, was made within a divorce proceeding whereby Marvin Gaye didn't quite have the alimony that he needed to pay for his child.

And so the agreement was the next album that you do, your wife, who you're now divorcing, is going to get half of the money, royalties and the upfront money from the album itself.

And he decided, well, I don't want her making any money. So I'm going to do a quickie album, basically.
I'm just going to not really do anything good.

It's going to come out and it's just going to be panned by the critics. No one's going to like it.

And then suddenly, he got fascinated by the notion of this album and ended up putting more heart and soul into this album, possibly than any of his other albums. He was really hands-on.

He wrote the lyrics. He never writes lyrics for his songs, according to the stuff that I was reading.

He never really was hands-on with playing the piano, but in this album, he insisted on doing the lyrics, the piano, and it was panned at the time, but it's been, it's one of those albums that's been reviewed by everyone since.

You know, the Rolling Stone has named it one of the best 500 albums ever made three times in lists that they've released and it constantly appears on these lists now.

But it was a it's a pure divorce album. It's pretty cool.
That's the story of the producers, the film the producers done.

We've just done, you've given us a fact which is the song Pina Colada and now you've given us the film the producers, but you've translated it to being about Marvin Gaye. No, no, no.
We see you.

We see what you're doing.

They made it bad. He made this good during the process.
The producers were. I wonder at what point he decided to start making it good.
Like if he was like, oh, I'm going to make it so bad.

And then at what day did he realize, oh, I'm actually very invested. I'm really trying quite hard now.
Yeah, I don't know.

I guess if you're an artist, it's going to be really hard to go, I'll just put out a shit album. Like, that must be a painful thing to do, to make a decision on.
I don't know.

Some of them manage, don't they? But I think, like,

I think if he didn't normally play piano and didn't normally write the lyrics, and then he started doing it, he must have not normally done it because he didn't think he was as good as the people who were doing it, right?

Originally.

and then when he started doing it he's like oh this is pretty good actually it's also a little bit self-myth making oh i tried to make an album which sucked and instead i've made one of the 500 greatest of all time

oh that's just me

okay it's kind of embarrassing how bad i am at budgeting let me see your charges fine you spent over 600 on takeout last month I can't cook. You know this.

Yes, I have had your disgusting food, but you're literally paying for a meal subscription on top of that. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

That can't be right. Look, just get Rocket Money.
It shows you all of your expenses in one place and even tracks your subscriptions.

And if there's a subscription you don't want, which for you, there are a lot you don't need, you can just cancel right in the app with a few taps. So you mean I don't have to call anyone to cancel?

Nope. No hold times or anything.
And they'll even try to get you a refund on some of the months of wasted money, which is a lot of money for you. Okay, okay.
And if you thought I was done, I'm not.

The app can also help you make a budget that works for your income. Anytime you get close to your spending limits, it alerts you.
So you know exactly where your money is going at all times.

All right, Emin. What do I have to do? Go to rocketmoney.com/slash cancel or download the app from the Apple or Google Play Stores.
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Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Andy.

My fact is that the same fingers are responsible for the clicks in the Adams family theme, the bongos in the Mission Impossible theme, and the xylophone in the Simpsons theme.

The same human fingers created three of the great artworks of the 20th century. I just think it's unbelievable.
I think it's so great.

Would you say that you play the xylophone with your fingers? I was going to question that, yeah.

His name was Woodfingers Richards, and he

was incredible.

You know, Woodfingers Richards? When he clicked his fingers for the Adams family, did he set himself on fire?

Emil Richards, he was the hero of percussion. I should say where I got this.

It was via a brilliant piece that was published each year by a guy called Tom Whitwell, which is a 52 things he learned each year.

I think I may have mentioned him before, either one or two or three years ago, but anyway, it's a brilliant list. And this is one of the facts.
I just couldn't believe it.

And Emil Richards, it turns out, born 1932, died 2019, in between those two dates, had the most amazing musical career.

He played with Frank Sinatra. He toured with George Harrison.
He was one of the most amazing session musicians ever. The list of people he played with is just.
He played with Charlie Mingus, you know.

He was proppered into the scene of jazz and blues. And then, yeah, as you say, he went on tour and also played on three George Harrison albums.

He was inducted into the Percussive Arts Society Hall of Fame in 1994. That's a very hard Hall of Fame to get into.
Is it harder to get into than the Australian Basketball Hall of Fame? Yes.

I imagine to get in, you have to do a special special knock to get into the Picoster Hall of Fame.

But no, yeah, what an extraordinary guy. It was amazing.
Frank Zach, Doris Day, the Beach Boys, The Bee Gees, Blondie, Ella Fitzgerald, Marvin Gaye. I don't know if it was on the album.
Oh, imagine.

I think Marvin did all his finger clicks on that album. Right, okay.

He was just incredible. I loved this.
His autobiography was called My Life Behind Bars.

Fairy bars.

Oh, you may have come across this in the course of your research. Can you guess what kind of animal he wanted to come back as in the next life? Oh, I didn't see that.
I did not see that.

Something percussive. So,

woodpecker.

Such a good guess. I wish it was that.
Imagine it's just totally unrelated. No, no, no.
It is related to his percussionist life. Oh, it is.
It's an octopus.

Oh, so you can have more experiments of that.

Woodpecker is better, actually, yeah. Six of them are legs in an octopus.

He had the world's largest collection of percussive instruments. Really? This guy, yeah, he had 700, over 770.

I don't know if that's 771, maybe.

He had an ang klung, a bulbul terang, a chimta, a flapamba, a jangu, a mbira, and a pakhavaj.

When I was looking him up, they said he plays the vibraphone, and I went to look up what a vibraphone was, and the first thing that just said, not to be confused with the vibra slap.

And what is that? Always got them fixed up. A vibra slap is, have you ever seen that instrument? It's like a piece of wire bent into a U, and there's a wooden ball on the end, and it hits the box.

So that's a vibra slap. Cool.
And a vibraphone is more, it looks like a xylophone. I don't know how you would confuse them.
They don't look at all alike.

And they're both so obscure that I feel like it's very unlikely you'll be talking about one and not know what the other one is.

Like, either you're not talking about these at all, or there's no risk of you confusing the two.

Such a good boy. What a guy.
So he did the Mission Impossible theme tune, the bongos on that. And I was looking into the Mission Impossible theme tune generally.

So there's this fact, which is that the beat of the song was written to the Morse code of M and I.

Can you give us what it goes like for anyone who doesn't know? Andy, you're a bigger fan. I always end up doing Bond by accident.
Can you do it quickly?

Do you mean the bit that goes bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam? Yes,

yeah. So it's it's dash, dash, dot, dot is the thing for it.
That's great. But the guy who wrote it, Schifrin, he wrote that whole song, he says, in three minutes.
Wow, really? Yeah.

You often hear that with a few musicians where they say, I just banged that out in it just came to me as a fully formed piece. And that happened.
And that happened with Mission Impossible.

So that's quite cool. And the same with

the James Bond theme. That wasn't written in a quick time, but it's by a guy called Monty Norman.

And he actually, which is, I really like this, he was hired by the Bond people to come up specifically with this theme. And they took him out to Jamaica on a holiday.

And he met Connery out there and Ursula Andress.

Because they were filming Dr. No.
Yeah, they were filming Dr. No, the first one out there.
And so he was brought to meet them all and get a vibe of it.

And he ended up just using a previous tune that he had written for a completely different adaption that never got used. It was a stage production of V.S.
Naples' novel A House for Mr. Biswas.

That's the original James Bond theme, and it was played on sitar. Is that the one that goes da da da da da da da da da da?

Oh, because I know the original lyrics of that are something like, I was born with an unfortunate sneeze, and

my parents said that I was made the wrong way around.

Oh my god, this is a bigger repurpose than Candle in the Wind.

This This is a big shift.

So strange. And I think at the end of the song, he sneezes so much that he falls into a lake or something of that tune.
Oh, right. Wow.

This guy, Monty Norman, he also wrote an autobiography. So Life Behind Bars, very good title.
Do you know, Andy, you look like you might know the title of his autobiography? No, I don't.

Is it Musical and James Bonte? No. Well, I'm not going to get it.
No, it was called A Walking Stick Full of Bagels.

Okay.

Without knowing knowing the context, that is not a good title. Well, I think that must have been a classic phrase back in the day.
You're like a walking stick full of bagels. And what does that mean?

How would a stick be full of anything? There we go. There's so many questions.
I bet they were all answered in the unpublished autobiography, and we are yet to find out.

I think the best autobiography title I've ever heard was Tory Spellings Autobiography. Storytelling by Tory Spelling.

Really good.

Really strong title. I got it.
I got it off that title.

But that doesn't go down well in the divorce case.

Have you guys heard of the village of Kong Thong in northeast India? No. This is a village where every child is given a theme tune.
Oh, cool. So it's a little village.

It's really cut off from the rest of India. I don't think you can get there by car.
I think you can get there by boat.

But it's in the middle of a jungle. And people would forage for broomgrass, which they would sell on.

And so a lot of the time you would spend in the jungle sort of walking around probably alone and the thing is in the jungle it's quite hard to hear people for long distances because it all gets soaked in by the trees and so they came up with this different way of telling people you're around by having a different tune that you would whistle or you would shout or whatever and so when you're born you get your theme tune and then for the rest of your life whenever you're in the jungle people will make this little doo doo doo do you'd be like oh that's me that was the simpsons so

yeah, yeah, I was like, I think lawyers will be in touch with that kid.

He was from the Simpson family of Kong Thung. That is so cool.
Isn't it? That's awesome.

Unfortunately, it's kind of dying out because people now will connect with each other using mobile phones, so they don't need these theme tunes so much.

Again, the internet's ruined it all.

I'm having a quick think about songs that use the old handaroos as a kind of iconic bit of it and obviously if you're thinking theme tunes the friends theme tune i'll be there for you by the rembrandts there's like a clapping bit yeah so

it's four claps um apparently there's a bit of controversy because courtney cox did five claps on a tv show once and it sent the writers of the song mad but the uh song i'll be there for you it was actually a song composed specifically for the tv show and the rembrandts had very minimal input into the writing itself it was the actual creators of friends who wrote the song and it proved to be such a iconic theme tune that everyone was begging for it to be released in the yeah I bought it in the charts when it came out.

So what yeah what that was was they had to go into a studio and write a whole song because there wasn't a whole song. It was only the theme tune bit of the song.

They needed two more verses to be added in. Really? Yeah, so it was a backwards constructed full song that ended up coming out.
That's so interesting. So it was 40 seconds ago.

There was like a time in the 90s when all the theme tunes used to come out and you could buy them for the charts, like the X-Files did around that time as well.

And they all did quite well in the charts just because people thought, oh, I like that song. Yeah, I love it.
I mean, the X-Files is my favorite theme tune of all time.

And it turns out, so the guy who composed that's called Mark Snow. Yeah, Mark Snow.
And David DeCovady claims, I think this is tongue-in-cheek.

I mean, it completely is tongue-in-cheek, but he says there are lyrics to the X-Files theme tune by Mark Snow.

And these are the lyrics.

The X-Files is a show, show, show, show, show.

With music by Mark Snow. Snow, Snow, Snow, Snow.
Those are the only two lyrics that we know of, according to D'ACovny.

Do you guys know what composers of TV theme tunes hate?

I guess. Oh, when they, when, on TV shows, when the continuity announcer goes next up on PC3.

That's a really good point.

I'm specifically talking about the skip intro button. Okay.
Which is very controversial. Of course.

They get furious, those guys and girls, about the skip intro. Because Netflix found out that users were frequently fast-forwarding a bit.

Because, you know, if you're watching three episodes in a night, you don't want to see the theme tuned three times.

So Netflix claims, I can't quite believe this, Skip Intro is pressed 136 million times a day, which cumulatively saves 130 years of human time. Hmm.
We never.

Especially the shows where they've put some proper effort into

the intros. I think you lose quite a lot from not having those intros.

Can you imagine watching Game of Thrones and not having that amazing theme tune with all the stuff happening and then just going straight into the shaggy? That's

yeah, exactly. Yeah, it really sets the vibe.
I think grooving to the Sopranos theme is like maybe 30% of what I like about watching the show.

Obviously the rest of the other 70% is that it's groundbreaking, beautiful human drama. But the theme tune is also up there.
It's a bob. I agree.
We stand up in our house.

We stand in silence for every theme tune.

It's a huge respect in this household. Monica, aren't you showrunning on a show at the moment? I just finished showrunning on a show, yes.
Are you going to get to pick the theme tune?

I think we're going to have proper opening titles. So we're going to have to do a whole, we're going to have to figure out a whole thing.
Yeah.

I've really been shown my own limitations in this area because my description is like, I want it to sound

cool.

I have nulled their feedback at all.

Well, I got some advice for you, Monica, if you're working with the sound person.

Do a secret thing here, which is do actually write lyrics to whatever the theme tune is, but don't put them out because you could then claim 50% royalties on the song.

This is what Gene Roddenberry did with Star Trek. He wrote lyrics for the Star Trek song.
They never used them. And anytime a royalty check came in, he was a co-writer of the song.

So he got 50% of everything. And the song Suicide is Painless, the MASH theme tune, it was used in the Robert Altman movie, commissioned specifically for that movie by Robert Altman.

And he tried to write the lyrics for it, couldn't crack it. And so he asked his son, Michael, who was 15 years old at the time, to write the lyrics.
So Michael did that.

And as a result of that song not only being used in the movie, but then the long-running TV show with Alan Alder, he says, Altman says that he made $70,000 for directing that movie.

And his son has earned more than a million dollars over the years just from that being sold. Those lyrics are good, though, aren't they, for Suicide is Painless.

But G Roddenberry, is he not just stealing half of the credit?

It feels like the workers and the musicians who have done all this work, and he's just like, well, I'll pretend that I've written some lyrics and take half the money. It's quite cheeky.

It's very cheeky. Hey, that's the business we're in, guys.
And Monica,

that's Hollywood, baby.

God, business is business.

Just quickly, Ed Sheeran has written a theme tune to James Bond, despite no one having requested that he do that, which I think is quite sweet. I'm watching that's a very Ed Sheeran thing to do.

But that's, isn't that, I would say that when a new Bond comes out, people submit songs. That's how that's always worked.
No, it's not. You don't send in.

There are so many songs that are out that are rejected Bond songs by bands that submitted a song that didn't get used, which they then used. Is there a process? Is there an open process by which...

I mean, could we submit one? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Do they accept anything?

That can't be true. I thought that they would commission a cool art.
It can't be like a bake-off.

Like the last film, they asked Billie Eilish to do... Yeah.
No, she just got lucky. She just happened to have the best one.
They said in a million. Wow.
And hers just happened to be the best one.

They listen to them blind as well. They don't, you know, they don't prejudice.
It's like the voice. It's like the voice.
It could be anyone. That can't be true, Dan.

Because they always pick the trendiest person in the world at the time, don't they? No, I mean... And Ed Sheeran has consistently been the second trendiest person in the world, and he just

keeps missing it. The reason I say it is I know that Radiohead had a rejected Bond song, so I'm trying to work back from there.
And I'm pretty sure Johnny Cash had one as well.

And I think this is a thing, yeah. But I can't say for sure.

Maybe they ask people to tender for it. Rather than anyone being able to send stuff out.
Oh, yeah. I think they send...
I think they ask a group of people. I don't think it is open.

It's not quite as open as that. Open season.

Because you'd see, there'd be a there'd be a thing every three years wouldn't there yeah exactly um have you guys heard of dusan sestich uh he's a a composer of the bosnian national anthem we spoke about bosnia earlier he entered the competition to um to do the bosnian national anthem he didn't really want to win he just wanted to get like second or third place there was money for it he like was quite into the old yugoslavia he didn't really care about the new bosnia but he thought i'll get some money out of it because i'm a decent composer anyway he won and he wrote the national anthem for Bosnia.

And then in 2009, someone noticed that it was remarkably similar to the theme tune of National Lampoon's Animal House, the 1978 movie. Right.

And when you listen to them both, they are almost identical. Like, there's no difference whatsoever.
But bless him. He went on TV and they were all like, well...

How come you made our national anthem the theme tune to National Lampoon's Animal House? And he said, oh, maybe as a young man, I heard it and it kind of stuck in my head.

And I didn't deliberately plagiarize it. It just so happened.
That is brilliant. This is the problem with big

national policies being decided by write-in contest. This is why Canadian legal tender is called the loony and the toony.

Oh, what?

The $1 coin has a loon on it, so it's called a loony. And then they had a contest to name the $2 coin, which has a polar bear on it.
And the winning entry was the toony.

And now that is all we call it. and it just makes us sound like a joke country

without knowing the other options monica i do think to me is quite good

i think there's a bit of bodie mcboat face to it

yeah yeah we have some haven't they also the loony yeah the toonie the family

yeah it works

Haven't they recently, just while we're talking about money and having mentioned Star Trek, there was the thing where you would spockify your Canadian dollar, right?

The guy guy who was on the picture looks so similar to Leonard Nimoy from Star Trek that you would draw Spock ears on him and you would draw the hair, basically. Yes, it was called Spocking.
Spocking.

And the Bank of Canada had to issue a statement saying that it was legal to do, but inappropriate.

And I think they've from what I read, they've changed his image now on the bill. Is that right? There's a new version of the same guy just so it's less spockable.

I think if you draw that spock on any note, then Chee Roddenberry owns half your money. Yeah, and then a

spokesperson for another agency in Canada, Vangel Agency, said to the Bank of Canada, this is fine. As you say, it's perfectly legal.
And I'm sure Sir Wilfrid Laurier would get it.

Who's the man pictured off the bill who died in 1919?

I've just got one more theme tune I quickly want to bring up, which is The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

So we all know that theme tune. It's a Kraken song by by Will Smith.
And it was a song that he wrote despite not being necessarily asked to write it at the time.

He kind of just did it and he showed it to, I believe it was Quincy Jones, who was doing the music for the show. And they said, yeah, you can go and do it.
Obviously, it's a massive hit.

And when it was released in 1992 as a single, but here's the thing. I don't know if, James, you bought singles, as you were saying back in the day.

In 1992, the Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme tune was only released exclusively in the Netherlands and Spain. And that's where it charted.
That's it. That's really interesting.

Because when you said that, I thought to myself, how come I didn't buy that? Like, I was so sure that I would, if I was around at the time, I would have bought it.

Because I bought WikiWiki Wild Wild West or whenever it was by Will Smith.

Great song. Yeah, I bought all his other crap.
So I was really surprised.

James, did you buy Willenium?

That was a great album. Oh, an album.
No, I was more of a singles buyer, really.

Yeah. It's not a good album, Dan.

I'm sorry. I think enough time has passed that I'm able to have a pop at Willennium.

Keep the name of that album out of your dash.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that in 2024, the first ever theater production of Dracula will celebrate its 100th anniversary.

Unfortunately, fans can't celebrate it in the venue it was performed in because it's currently occupied by an over-18s adult-themed crazy golf course called the house of holes filthy

so

this is in derby a city in the uk

and i was there recently on the weekend for a game of billy golf how was your yeah quick round

i was though i was there doing a ghost story festival and uh afterwards i was hanging out with this really cool guy called chris horton and he said i've got a fish fact for you and he told me he'd he'd pass the house of holes and made him laugh.

And so, yeah, so it is a very well-known theatre as well. It was called the Grand Theatre.
Then it just got repurposed over the years to be something new.

And there was, you know, restaurants in its place and so on. And now there is this amazing crazy goal.
The House of Holes. Yeah.

Can I just,

I'm sure we'll talk more about Crazy Orl. Can I talk specifically about the House of Holes and Derby? Yeah, sure.
I don't mean to cast any aspersions on it. I don't think it's terribly erotic.

It doesn't seem to be from the website. It seems like a lot of it just seems to be novelty.
Because I think that people at home, some people at home, will have an image in their heads of

what it is. Yeah.
But let's sort of give context then through images. One of the holes, you have to hit the ball through a bunch of standing dildos, for example.

Yes, I'm not saying it's totally unerotic.

There's another one where for some reason there's a lot of blow-up dolls that are uninflated hanging on washing lines, just hanging in the vicinity of the hole

itself.

Yeah, the area where you play pool, because you know these places, indoor places, have like you can play arcades and stuff. The button where you play pool is called anal butt.

What? Yeah, and anal has a four instead of the second A in anal. So A N 4 L butt.
What's that got to do with pool? What's that mean? I'm not quite sure. I couldn't get to the bottom of that one.

But it's there. Surely the phrase anal and butt are sort of

achieving the same

feeling a little redundant to me personally. It's definitely a redundant adjective, isn't it? How's your butt? Well, it's very idle.

But I don't know what's in the water in Derby, but there was a newspaper piece a couple of months ago. Derby is now about to get its second erotic mini-golf venue.

It's really popular. The new Glory Holes golf venue

will apparently include risque items and decor and some Derby-themed holes as well. So that's nice.
That's That's cool. That's good.

Can I quickly, just because let's give this fact just a tiny bit of substance before we get into erotic golf.

I just want to quickly say that the production, just for context, was the first ever Dracula production. And it was put on in the early 1920s.

And it was a show that was sanctioned and approved by Florence Stoker, who was the widow of Bram Stoker.

And this was the production that became the sort of official theater production that, as it traveled around the UK and then went international, cast in its lead Bella Lugosi who became as we all know the iconic Dracula in film and weirdly the final performance that Bella Lugosi ever did as Dracula on stage was back in Derby at another theater just around the corner from the Grand some 20 odd years later so Derby does have a real Dracula connection as a result of this

very interesting And Lugosi, so he got the role in 1927 when the play moved to the USA. That's when Lugosi entered the scene.

And then in the 50s it was when he toured again and came back to Derby and did a big English tour of this show.

And he got really upset because apparently the audiences were laughing sometimes because Dracula was no longer the big scary thing. It had been,

it was the early 50s. You know, people have been through a bit since the 20s.

They're not as scared. And yeah, it seems to have prompted the end of his career, which is very sad.
And it was also, this play was also very important for the image of Dracula.

The guy who wrote it, a guy called Hamilton Dean, he made Dracula appear as that more modern, suave sort of coat-wearing, cocktail-drinking kind of character rather than Bram's just all-out vampire, chaos energy zombie-like stuff.

Does it he drink cocktails? Doesn't he? He's a passion fruit martini.

Sorry, he does.

There was actually one earlier theatre production of Dracula, which came out eight days before the novel came out. This was, if you did a novel, someone else could make a play of it.

And there's not much you can do about it unless you put on your own play.

And so what Bram Stoker did was he had a dramatic reading of his book on stage. They had to have it open for the paying public.

So they would put bills up half an hour before it started saying Dracula on in half an hour. I had two people bought tickets for it.

and sat in the audience while a couple of actors sort of just read through the book.

and from them doing that, it meant that no one else could put a play on because he owed copyright on the theater production. How amazing.
Yeah. Monica, have you done that with Really Good Actually?

I should do to stop someone doing a bootleg play.

And that was basically what my experience of doing the Edinburgh Fringe was. It was going out half an hour before the show, being like, anybody, somebody, and then,

you know, mildly entertaining two people.

Chills. Actual chills remembering that.
That's everyone's Edinburgh. Yeah.

Okay, Dan, we've done the draconi thing. Can we go back to the erotic

mini golf now? Let's do it.

I just remembered when you were talking about that that I have played, not played golf, but I've used a golf club shaped like a penis at the Penis Museum in Reykjavik.

They have one, and you can sort of pick it up and play with it. And yeah, it's like it's just the head part of the golf club is shaped like a penis.
But it's not it's not for a serious golfer, right?

As in it's not built for proper play, you know, master's conditions. I don't think it adheres to the official USPGA rules.
It's like a walking stick full of bagels.

You're not going to use it as an actual assist,

as a walking stick.

I think there's a link between the original boom in crazy golf and the current derby-based boom in erotic golf. Okay.
So when was the original boom? 20s and 30s.

Lots of sources say that it completely went out when the Great Depression happened, but actually, it didn't really. It actually boomed during the early 30s.

During that period, apparently the USA built 25,000 mini-golf courses. It was described as a devastating craze in the times in 1930.

And I think the theory behind it is that property value had collapsed, and the value of lots of things had collapsed, and people started their own tiny businesses to generate small amounts of income.

You know, it doesn't have to be anything huge, but it's a small local thing on whatever kind of waste ground or land you've got.

You know, some restaurants turned it, half the restaurant became a mini golf course and the rest of it stayed a restaurant.

So maybe times of financial hardship are when you get a lot more mini golf because you get shops that are closed or empty. So the new Glory Hole Golf is the site of the old gap store in Derby.

You know, you've got retail space available. What is a Glory Hole without a Gap?

So anyway, that's my economic theory. No, it's a really, yeah, it's a really good theory.
It's almost a thesis rather than a podcast, isn't it? Yeah. Mini golf doesn't use golf balls.
Yes, I do.

No.

There are special mini golf balls. They're kind of more rubbery.
They're more rubbery. They bounce more.
And there's a stat.

I find this mad. There's the World Crazy Golf Championships.
I mean, there are a few World Crazy Golf Championships.

One is in Hastings, and normally, apparently, they only get about three overseas players each year. So the extent to which it's World is a bit debatable.
But

they don't tell you at the World Crazy Golf Championships what the ball is until the day before it starts. Okay, but it's always going to be spherical.
It's always going to be spherical.

I'm pretty sure about that. And then other championships, they'll let you play a different ball on every hole.

And the only rule is that once you've started a hole, you have to play the same ball all the way through. Normal golf.
Is that true?

How about local? If I was playing mini-golf, like we play in Narrabeen in Australia, they're using special balls? I think they'll be more rubbery for sure.

If you check them. Yeah.
Who would have thought this would be the fact that blew my mind most? This whole run of nine years. Golf again.

Go on. This is, I'm afraid it's back to the.
It's back to a tangent from the original erotic mini-golf thing. Oh, yeah.
Just that it was on, you know, this new place opening up.

It's going to be called Glory Holes Golf. And we got an email in the fish inbox recently,

subject line Gibbon Glory Hole Action. Oh my God.
I know this story. This is incredible.
This is a Gibbon in

a zoo or a sanctuary. This was a female Gibbon, and she was living on her own, and

she got pregnant. And it was basically a virgin birth, and it was so exciting for the scientists.
They thought, I can't believe this.

Anyway, they did a bit of an investigation, and it turned out, obviously, it was not a virgin birth.

In between her enclosure and the next door neighbor male Gibbon's enclosure was a nine millimeter hole through which they had managed to successfully breed and become parents.

Nine million. They were just sort of both mushing up against the wall? I'm afraid so.
Life finds a way. Life finds a way.
Wow. That's a scene I don't want to see in Jurassic Park.

I would like to hear David Attenborough do one of his little jokes, but you know, when he sort of makes the animals a fool? Where he's like, a nest is as good a place as any.

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it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is James.

Okay, my fact this week is that in 2009, an aide to the Canadian Prime Minister called 10 Downing Street to offer condolences for the death of Margaret Thatcher. In fact, she wasn't dead.

It was a misunderstanding due to the death of the Canadian Transport Minister's cat, who was also called Thatcher.

Superb. Yeah.
Really good. What a cool.
What a call.

At that call. A Moggy, not a Maggie.
It says a lot.

Oh, brilliant. Brilliant.
Was that you, Dan? No, someone else. No, no, that's the headline of the Guardian article.
Yeah, that's right. Amazing.
So, yeah, this was a Black Tide dinner in Toronto.

2,000 Canadian Conservatives were there, and many of them got a text message saying simply Thatcher has died.

And Dimitri Sudas, who was the aide to the Prime Minister, who was Stephen Harper at the time, he was sent to write a letter of condolence.

And he ran Buckingham Palace and 10 Downing Street to kind of work out what they should say and, you know, and offer condolences as well.

And then he found out that they hadn't died. And it turned out that Transport Minister John Baird had a 16-year-old grey cat called Thatcher.

And sadly, that cat had died.

But he denied sending the text later on. But there definitely was a text that was sent to all these people about the cat.

This is like an international incident version of David's Dead on Big Brezniker. Yes.

It's the greatest TV moment ever.

There was a famous David who died. David Bowie.
Yeah. Bowie.

Does someone in the building know who? I don't know why I'm telling this story. Everyone knows it better than me, apparently.
Monica, you can tell it. Mono.
No, no, yo, please you tell it.

I've actually only seen the clip.

Okay, so in the Big Brother household that year was Angie Bowie, the first wife of David Bowie, and also in the house that year was David Guest, who was Liza Minelli's ex-husband.

Angie gets called in while David Guest is having a sleep in his bed. Everyone knows he's having a sleep, so he's not around.

And she gets told that David Bowie has died. So she is,

obviously, she didn't like her ex-husband, but she's also very distressed because he was a huge part of her life. She comes out.
She's trying to keep it secret.

And one of the other Americans who's staying in the house comes up and says, are you okay? And she says, you can't tell anyone, but... David's dead.

And this other woman immediately freaks out because she thinks it's David Guest who's died, but Angie hasn't made the connection.

So Angie's kind of going, God, I didn't think you were that big a Bowie fan. I can't see how this has erupted.
And it causes chaos in the house for five minutes. It's TV at its finest.

Well, imagine that, but with 2,000 Canadian Conservatives. Yeah.

What a scene it must have been. The true patriot love tribute dinner.
Oh, is that what it was? That's what it was called. Military families honoring thing.
But Canadian politics, Monica, is fabulous.

Is there a.

Well,

I feel like there is a list of political scandals in Canada on Wikipedia and you know some of them are pretty dry like the usual grift you know or bribery or slightly dodgy dealings but there are some there are some fun ones.

Tuna gate might be my favourite.

Tunigate. Were you involved in TunaGate, Monica?

Not to my knowledge, but I'll never admit it if so. You'll never catch me.

Tunigate, actually, think about it now. Tunigate way too long ago.
You're clear. You're clear.
You're clear.

Basically, there were a million cans of decomposing tuna that was that was the central problem right and it wasn't really really really unsafe but it had started to go off before it was put in the cans the firm involved was called starkist and they said no you just these inspectors they just don't like fish that's their problem and they said and we'll close down our plant and you'll lose all these jobs and you know and that's when it becomes a political thing because then the fisheries minister said oh yeah it's probably it's fine yeah all this stuff it's great it's actually good and he got a panel together uh It's just like, look, can you just assess this tuna, please?

And they said, yeah, this is rotting tuna in these cans. And he says, okay, I think we need a different panel.

And he got a different panel together who eventually said, yes, these million tins of rotting tuna are fine. And then he resigned.
Yeah. And I don't think much of the tuna was eaten in the end.

And then the phone went bust anyway. So that's a very classic Canadian scandal where it's like it threatened to really kick off.
And ultimately, they just, nobody really consumed the tuna.

And it was sort of fine. That's like the other great Canadian political scandal, the Fuddle-Duddle incident.
What's this?

The Fuddle-Duddle incident in 1971 happened to the first Prime Minister Trudeau, our current Prime Minister's father, who was accused of having spoken or at least mouthed unparliamentary language of the House of Commons.

He seemed to have been caught mouthing the words, fuck off, but when pressed by television reporters, he would only admit to having moved his lips.

So they were like, what were you thinking when you moved your lips? And his response was, what is the nature of your thoughts when you say fuddle-duddle or something like that?

Implying that he had said fuddle-duddle instead of fuck off.

Right. That's good.
No one's heard you. Yeah.
You know, you're across the room from them. Well, then in 2015, his son actually stated on the record that his dad had not said fuddle duddle.

And this is a big scandal. Minor scandal, but that's sort of the scale.
It's like someone,

that's always the scale. It's always a little bit funny.
Like someone threw a pie in Jean-Cretian's face in the the 90s, and that was quite

cool. The pies were actually a coordinated, ongoing assault by a group called the Entartistes, who were a Canadian satirical political group.

And they even released a hit list of people they wanted to get with pies,

including Celine Dion and Conrad Black and Chrétien. And then they were successful in pieing Chrétien.
twice.

Oh, that's got a sting. The pies,

were they the kind of clown pies where it's like just custard or is it actual like apple pies? Cream pies. Like it was just cream pies.

It may even have been shaving cream or just like what you guys would unfortunately call squirty cream.

Squirty cream. It's not a nice thing to say, and I'm sorry to say it.

Speaking of shaving cream, I can't believe we managed to get out to shaving cream.

William Lyon Mackenzie King, who was Prime Minister of Canada for 22 years.

Well, I'm not surprised because he did seances and stuff, right, Dan? Yeah. But he also also used to see symbols in his shaving cream in the morning, which he thought would predict the future.
Yeah.

Wow. What an extraordinary guy.
I mean, he was prime minister for 21 years, which possibly is still the record length for anyone to do it. He had quite a tragic family life.

He lost all of his family during the war. And so as a result, turned like many people did to spirituality as a thing.

But what many people didn't realize at the time was he was taking that spirituality into

the office with him as a prime minister and getting guidance from the spirits of Leonardo da Vinci and his deceased dogs.

The shaving foam thing, he would shave and then the shaving foam would go into the water in the sink kind of thing.

And at one stage he saw a polar bear and an eagle. And the polar bear was supposed to represent like Russia or the Soviet Union, I should say, and the eagle supposed to represent America.

And they were kind of fighting in shaving cream.

And then a dog appeared in the shaving cream, which he thought symbolized Canada. And then it came and helped to push the bear off the eagle.

And that was kind of him thinking that he, what side he needs to be in the Cold War. He needs to be on the Cape.

As if he didn't know what side he should probably be on in the Cold War.

That probably just confirmed his suspicions. I do feel like a polar bear would be fairly easy to see in shaving cream.
Like I'm wondering

if the shapes he was seeing were sort of like, you know, I saw a vision in my shaving cream of a cloud meeting sort of a fog.

Yeah.

Oh my God. What a crazy thing.
Yeah, amazing.

I was having a look through the old fish inbox, podcast.qi.com. Really good fact we got in from John Ford.
So thank you, John. This is something maybe you've done it, Monica.

It's that Canada flies a new flag over its parliament every single day. Every single day there's a new flag.
And they give the used one to a Canadian. And you can apply to get your own flag.

And you think I have done this?

Well,

I guess it's possible.

I feel like you haven't anymore.

I haven't quite. No, but if I say that I have the option.
Well, you have the option, but unfortunately, you won't get the flag. So this is a mad thing.
The current waiting time is 100 years.

It's more than a century because so many people have applied. So, and they mention this on the website, like it's a totally normal thing.

Yeah, they say the current waiting time is more than 100 years. And so you can either log on and make a request, why would you?

Or you can change your details if you made a request, you know, five years ago and you're moving house now. Just to keep it updated.
But why would you do that either?

Are you allowed to do it for your next generation? Couldn't you? Exactly. Can it go to the descendants?

I don't think I'll know any of my hundred-year-from-now descendants well enough to care whether or not they get a flag.

It's also not hard to get.

It's not very special. It's only been up over Parliament for one day.
Yep. You could just get your own flag.
That's the kind of shit I buy on eBay. Don't knock it.
This is

all part of my divorce. That's giving unreasonable behavior to me, actually.

Have you been reading about William Amos from the Liberal Party in the last few months?

Very recently, he was on a Zoom call, parliamentary Zoom call,

and he had to apologize because because he said I urinated without realizing I was on camera.

And

the amazing thing was that the month earlier, he'd also been recorded in the nude during the virtual session of the Canadian Parliament. So, twice in two months.

The first time he'd been out for a jog, and he was kind of getting changed while the session was going on.

And they could see it all. Yeah, see the right honourable member.
See his loony and his as toony.

I can see myself not falling for that, just I can see myself doing that. Twice in a row? You quickly show.
Maybe not twice in a row.

I think one's better than in this case, right? Yeah, I would definitely get a post-it for the camera after the first time.

Or would I? I don't know. No, you would think I couldn't possibly do that again.
That's what you think. That's what you think.
Oh, my God. That was the stupidest day of my life.

No more mistakes on that front. And then you just go along and, you you know, do you say it was urinating into a cup or something?

I don't know. As far as I can tell, because this kind of thing has now happened, you know, we're pretty deep in the pandemic.
It's now happened a number of times to some fairly high-profile people.

And it has, as far as I'm aware, never happened to a woman. It's just men

who I don't know, haven't thought it through or aren't worried enough. Yeah.
I can't even believe that you're saying that you think this could happen to you. This would never happen to me.

There's no world in which I would be like, okay, I'm doing a work Zoom. I'm going to quickly get fully nude.
No one has to know.

Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts.
Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our Twitter accounts.

I'm on at Schreiberland, Andy at Andrew Hunter M, James, at James Harkin, and Monica at Monica Hazy.

Yep, or if you'd like to book a round of golf at the House of Holes, you can head to at houseofholes UK. It genuinely has amazing reviews.
Do check it out.

So everyone loved it there. Everyone loved it.
Or you can go to at no such thing, which is our actual Twitter handle, and you can get through to us there. Or you can email us at podcast at qi.com.

Also, do check out our website, no such thingasafish.com. All of the previous episodes are up there.

But the main, main thing that you need to do is get to a bookshop or an online bookshop and get really good actually by Monica Heisey. It is storming the charts here.

As we speak, it's been in the Sunday Times bestsellers list for four weeks. It is an absolute rocking book.
It's incredibly funny. So do get it now.

And otherwise, come back because we're going to be back with another episode next week. And we'll see you then.
Goodbye.

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