The Alliance with Phil Shea

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I'm Jenna Fisher.

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on The Office together.

And we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

We're The Office Ladies.

Hey everyone, it's Jenna Fisher.

Hi, I'm Angela Kinsey.

We have a great episode.

It's The Alliance.

It's so good.

I was tickled.

Can I tell you?

I was tickled watching this.

Same.

And I made my note cards, Jenna.

I'm real excited about it.

There are so many inside jokes from this episode for the Office Gang.

We will get to that.

Angela, I'm sorry.

I think we have no time for chit chat this morning.

We have no time.

No, we have no time because this episode is too good.

There is too much to talk about.

But Jenna, I love chit-chat.

I know.

Well, you're going to have to save it.

Oh, well, I have really good day two hair for the ladies out there listening.

I got a blow dry last night.

This is what I said we don't have time for it.

This is literally what I just said.

We don't have time.

I can't tell you how great my hair looks today, and I didn't even brush it.

I mean, the back of it's a hot mess.

Let's, but you know, that's kind of my go-to.

You are so proud of your hair that you had to get it in there, even though I said we didn't have time.

All right, Jenna, get to your dang fast facts.

All right, The Alliance Season One, Episode 4.

I'm listening.

This is written by Mike Scher and directed by Brian Gordon.

A little bit of trivia.

Mike Scher plays Moe's on our show.

He does.

He plays Moe's.

And not yet, but...

Not yet.

And he's also just insanely talented.

I mean, you know, look him up on IMDb.

He's like writing everywhere.

He's everywhere.

Yeah, he produces a million amazing television shows.

If you're watching a television show and you love it, Mike Scher probably does.

Mike Scher's probably doing it.

Yes.

So I'm going to start with a synopsis on this episode.

I know we usually start with our fast facts.

Oh my God.

What are you going, rogue?

I'm going with rogue.

I know.

I'm refusing to allow any chit chat.

I'm starting with a fast fact.

You're like in a black shirt with a black hoodie.

You've got camo pants.

What's happening?

Are you taking a kickboxing class or something?

You know, I took my kickboxing yesterday.

I know, I know.

You're feeling

tough.

I know.

You're very tough.

Okay.

All right.

Synopsis.

So this episode has two basic storylines.

One, in an attempt to raise morale, Michael insists on throwing a birthday party, even though it's no one's birthday.

It's no one's birthday.

The closest birthday is Meredith.

So it's next month, but he insists on throwing her birthday party.

And then at the same time, Jim and Dwight form an alliance.

Dwight is worried about the rumored downsizing.

And so he goes to Jim and suggests they form an alliance.

And this is like candy for Jim.

He's like, oh my God.

Yes.

Oh my God.

This is such a great opportunity to mess with Dwight.

Both of these themes are because people are afraid that the office is being downsized.

This is a big theme of the first season of The Office.

And so Michael thinks the answer is to throw a party and Dwight thinks the answer is to form an alliance and spy on his coworkers.

Yes.

You know, it's not Meredith's birthday, right?

But sort of force this party.

But it is Ryan the Timp's birthday.

Oh, yes.

That's a little nugget at the end of the episode.

That's a great reveal at the end.

Okay, I didn't mean to jump ahead.

Okay.

That's all right.

Well, I'm going to give a little fast fact.

So fast facts, for anyone who's new to listening, these are just a few fun facts about an episode that sort of are overreaching.

They apply to the whole episode rather than just one scene.

And for those of you just tuning in, Jenna came up with the idea of fast facts.

That's right.

And she really loves it.

And I call her keeper of the notes.

And she is keeper of the notes, keeper of the records.

She loves a list.

Yeah.

She loves a list.

Anyone who has been listening regularly knows these two things.

Oh, Jenna just cut some eyes at me.

I'm telling you, the lady is sassy today.

Well, and now we also know you have good hair today.

Okay.

The first fast fact is that this episode was inspired by the television show Survivor.

Yes.

Yes.

The writing staff watched a bunch of episodes of Survivor, and they did this so that they could properly satirize the way people talk about alliances and this idea of, you know, ganging up against other people.

And also, though, you have to mention that our cameraman, Randall Einhorn, and Matt Sohn, their background was Survivor.

Yes, they were camera operators on Survivor, which for me, as a huge survivor fan.

A huge survivor fan.

You guys, Jeff Propes officiated my wedding.

Now, this is something that is true.

This is true.

Now, here's the thing.

If you know Jonah and she's like from St.

Louis, she's a good Midwest gal.

And I remember when you were planning your wedding and you were like, Jeff Propes is going to officiate.

And I was like, the guy from Survivor?

What is happening?

So here's what happened.

My...

Now husband Lee and I, we were at an Emmys party.

Now, I know out there, people think that when you go to these parties, it you become friends with people, but you really don't.

Like you kind of hobnob, you maybe take a picture and then you never see them again.

And you sort of stick with the people you already knew.

Oh my gosh, I just would always sit like next to like Brian and Oscar and you and I like, I was terrified to like go meet people.

You're better at it.

I think you're better at it.

Am I?

Yes.

Remember when you made me go up to Meryl Streep?

That's a story for later.

Yeah.

And Amy Adams and I, I, I said nothing.

I looked like such a a dork.

I just walked up and was like,

we had to meet Meryl Streep.

I'm sorry.

If you have a chance to meet Meryl Streep, you don't let that go.

Well, anyway, that's a great story, but we'll save it.

Okay, good.

I could have been in that.

So I ended up approaching Jeff Probst at this party.

See, you would approach Jeff Probst.

I would never go up to him.

Okay, go on.

And I told him that I was a huge Survivor fan, and I was.

And we ended up really hitting it off, especially Jeff and my then fiancé, Lee, really hit it off because they had tennis in common.

They played tennis together.

Oh, they were tennis pals?

Yeah.

So after this party, they ended up becoming tennis pals.

And then we started going to dinners, couples' dinners.

You know, Jeff's wife is so lovely.

Her name is Lisa.

So we just ended up becoming great friends with them.

And at one of our dinners, Jeff said that he was nervous because that upcoming weekend, he was going to be officiating a friend's wedding.

And you were like, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Jeff Probst is.

the type of guy where he is really

caring and he's a like has a sort of just like a spiritual soul.

Kind of like Rain Wilson, right?

Yes.

I'll tell you one thing.

When you talk to someone like Jeff or Rain, you feel like you're the only person in the room.

Yes.

And they're truly interested in you.

They really want to know you.

They care about what you care about.

Like they're interested in you.

And I thought that's the kind of person you want to officiate your wedding.

You want that kind of soulful, caring person.

But then also, he's a host.

So he's comfortable sort of commanding attention from a group of people.

And it was awesome.

You were there, Anthony.

It it was awesome.

I was there.

Here's my one story from your wedding.

Jeff Propes, before your wedding, called me.

He got my phone number from you and was like, can you tell me any stories about Jenna that you know from the years?

And I was supposed to give a speech at your wedding, a toast.

I was going to give a toast.

You had asked me to give a toast.

And I sort of told Jeff some of my stories about you that I was going to have in my toast.

Oh, no.

And he stole them.

He took some of my bits.

And so then, like, when I got up to give my toast, I don't know if you remember, I'm like, I'm going to say a few things.

I mean, Jeff Propes pretty much stole all my stuff, but whatever.

And I like called him out for stealing my bits.

So as you were watching the wedding, all you were thinking was

that he kept stealing your stuff.

Yes.

Dang it, Propesty.

I told you.

And I called him Propesty.

I made up a nickname for him.

I'm sure he loved it.

All right.

Next fast fact.

What?

The original cut of this episode came in at 40 minutes, which is way too long because for a show to air on television.

On network TV.

On network TV, it can only be 20 minutes and 30 seconds.

Well, because you need room for the commercials.

Hey, network TV people, I just have a little tip for you.

And I know you want me, you know, to weigh in on things.

Change up your format.

I know, because they had to cut out like half of what they wanted to cut.

And Greg considered splitting this this into two episodes.

I wish they could take all the stuff they cut out and re-release it all.

Wouldn't that be so fun?

I will tell you, on the season one DVD, they have the deleted scenes

from this episode and they are delightful.

Okay.

I watched them and most of what was cut out were really funny, kind of general office life scenes.

So there was this great bit between Jim and Dwight where Dwight is changing his password where he's going on and on about how his password on his computer is the best.

And Jim keeps guessing it.

He's like, is it Frodo?

And it is.

And it is.

And then there's another really great one of Dwight just cleaning out the fridge in the break room and he throws away Jim's tuna sandwich.

There was also a really great scene that when I was watching this deleted scene, I remembered shooting and it was so funny of Michael coaching Pam on how to answer the phone with a smile.

Oh my Lord.

He said that she sounded really gloomy.

And he then stands by her desk and waits for the phone to ring.

And there's just these long pauses.

Awkward pauses.

And then he does this funny thing where he puts his hands in front of his face and he says, tell me if I'm smiling or not.

Oh my lord.

He's like, Dunder Mifflin, this is Michael.

And she's like, yes, you're smiling.

And then he's like, Dunder Mifflin, this is Michael.

And I'm like, not smiling.

And he's like, you hear the difference?

And then I have this line where I'm like, that was a really great example.

Thank you.

But so there is a place, if you're interested, the season one DVD has all of these deleted scenes on it.

And, you know, by the way, the reason Greg couldn't split this up into two episodes, he thought of doing one episode that was just about throwing the birthday party and one episode that was just about the alliance, the big prank.

And then you could have filled it out with some of these general office life scenes.

The problem was at the end of the episode, we all are have birthday hats.

We all have cake and birthday hats.

Yeah.

And so the end of the alliance part ends with birthday hats.

And so he couldn't do it.

Jenna, I have some trivia on my note cards, but you need to tell me when you're done with your fast facts.

So I have one more fast facts.

I don't want to mess up your list.

I see.

Don't look at my note cards.

I can see one of my fast facts on your note card.

I'll stop looking at my homework.

Well, my goodness.

Well, excuse me, Angela.

Here's my last fast fact.

Okay, do it.

near and dear to my heart and yours this is the first time we meet the party planning committee the pc the pc oh my gosh just years of just lovely memories of us planning ridiculous parties oh my gosh i remember that because I remember that there was just a tiny bit that was scripted.

Yes.

And then Greg told us, Greg Daniels said, guys, just keep planning the party.

Yeah, just we're going to record you.

Yes.

And that's when Phyllis was naming colors, like what color streamers.

And then we did this whole, like we did a whole other tangent about, do we say happy birthday or do we say surprise?

Or do we say happy birthday surprise?

Well, who would say happy birthday?

How happy birthday surprise?

Who would say that?

You're right.

We should start with surprise.

You say surprise first.

And then Pam's just caught in the middle of you and Phyllis.

And I love the dynamic of your subtle bullying of Phyllis.

Yes.

Your famous line, I think green is kind of whorish, is in this episode.

Yes.

And Phyllis is, of course, wearing green.

And then I throw her under the bus at the end.

I blame her for the lame streamers, the red streamers.

I just love all of it.

And there was so much that was there that got cut.

And I know why.

I mean, no one wants to watch like 20 minutes of us trying to plan a party, but it was so fun.

I always, I felt like there could be a spin-off, like a web

series

called the party planning committee.

Yeah, oh my gosh.

What if there was like this cool thing where they like uncovered all of the like unused footage of us planning parties?

Oh my god, that's got to exist in a vault somewhere.

Somewhere, I would totally want to see it, but we did.

We had so much fun, and we we took such long pauses, and it was so boring.

It was so boring.

And Pam was dying inside.

My take on that scene was that I should speak speak very little.

Like how I got roped into being on this committee, I feel like I was forced onto it by Michael.

I don't think I volunteered.

And I just wanted the meeting to be over.

And it didn't, you know, but you have that.

Have you been in those offices?

Oh, my God.

Yes.

I, I mean, come on, you and I both temped and we worked in offices.

And I mean, yes, you've been in those meetings.

It's that, that famous like line that people say, like this whole meeting could have been one email yeah that's that's what it is um you know i have to point out my hairstyle in this party planning committee scene because that hairstyle was bonkers crazy it was like i don't know we took two pieces and we twisted it back to the back of my head and then we did a low ponytail that connected it and i had so many like rubber bands and pins holding it and then i had one piece that kept flopping out and it drove me crazy and by the end of the episode i was like i don't ever want this i i can't do this again i can't have this hairstyle again.

You can do whatever you want, but this weird multiple like rubber band, I can't do it again.

Angela, I feel like we've come full circle here.

We started by speaking about your hair and now we're speaking about your hair again.

It's almost like it's almost perfect.

This must make you so happy, Jen.

It does.

And I take it back.

I think that you were right to have that banter.

I will take that, Jenna Fisher.

Let's take a break and then we'll come back and we'll start to really dive into this episode scene by scene.

Oh, let's do it.

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Well, welcome back.

Welcome back.

We are talking about the alliance.

Let's get into it, Jenna.

All right, the very first scene in this episode is Dwight waiting outside of the bathroom to confront Michael about the downsizing rumors.

And I just have to say, we do this a lot to Michael, and it always makes me laugh.

First of all, how much time does he spend in the bathroom?

And whenever people want to talk to them, they because this already happened.

Oscar

waits outside the bathroom to confront him.

Yes.

We're always bombarding him outside of the bathroom.

Well, I think it's because Michael is always avoiding us.

He's like, he always is avoiding work, right?

Yes.

Unless he has a joke to tell or unless he has good news.

Yes.

Otherwise, he hides.

And so people wait for him outside of the bathroom and he's always startled.

I have a lot of empathy for him because as a mother, I feel like every time I go to the bathroom, someone is literally waiting outside the door for me.

Always, always, always.

I don't understand it.

What is that?

Why can't mothers go to the bathroom without someone outside the door?

I don't know.

You know, I have such like empathy for my parents now in a different way.

I remember my dad going to the bathroom one time and I was outside the door like, and I think I was like messing with the door.

I was like doing like click, click, click, click on the door, click, click.

And my dad was like, I'm just trying to go to the bathroom.

And I was like, hey, dad.

He's like, he just needed five minutes.

Just five minutes.

Five minutes.

My kids slide things under the door.

Always slide things under the door.

Like that drawing couldn't wait.

No.

Or they just open the door.

They just come on in.

I know.

I know.

Okay.

Sorry.

Okay.

Anyway, poor Michael is accosted as he comes out of the bathroom once again.

I have like a fun little Dwight thing that I noticed in re-watching this.

What?

So it is such a joy for me to go back and re-watch these episodes.

I know you're having a lot of fun with it too, but I always thought the first bobblehead that Dwight ever had was the one that my character gave him for Valentine's of himself.

I knew that wasn't true.

What?

Yes, the reason your character made him a bobblehead of himself was because of his love of bobbleheads.

It's just maybe something you want to look into for your character.

Really?

Yes.

Was it a known thing that Dwight loved bobbleheads?

Yes.

Did he have them on his desk?

Oh my God.

Wow.

How did I miss that?

Jimmy is now looking at me like I'm having, like, I might need to take medication for something.

Oh, my God.

That just occurred to you now in the reward.

That just occurred to me.

I thought he was so excited because I gave him a bobblehead.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my lord.

I am a ding bat.

Okay.

I wrote on my note card.

You have to hear what I wrote.

I've been such an idiot.

Dwight has a bunch of bobbleheads.

Exclamation point.

Baseball team.

I counted six bobbleheads.

Are they from the Phillies?

Oh, my God.

How many times did I walk past his desk and I didn't notice that?

Because he collected bobbleheads.

Your character makes him a bobblehead of himself.

That's where your character got the idea.

It's a good thing.

It's a good thing you don't write the show.

I hit my head on the microphone.

Oh my God.

How did I miss that?

I mean, so this, I think, is an example of how fans of the show might know it better than some of the people on it.

Oh my God.

As Angela is pointing out, a fact of the show that that landed on everyone else.

I was so excited.

Look at my note card.

So many exclamation points.

I put six bobbleheads.

They're all baseball players.

I do have some other good note cards coming up.

Here's an, let's see another note card.

Okay.

We'll decide.

All right, sassy pants.

I put an asterisk by this one because I thought it was so good.

Do you know that there is a continuity error?

Aha.

Oh, look at your face now, Jenna Fisher.

All right.

I don't have this in my note.

Oh, I know.

There's a continuity error.

What is it?

And it's in accounting at seven minutes.

At seven minutes, Michael is talking about what he's going to write on the bird day birthday card.

Yes.

And he says, and you know what, guys?

I have set the bar really high.

Oh, Sam, pull it up.

Pull it up on the screen.

Sam is here in the booth.

He's going to show Jenna.

All right.

I am at the copier at the beginning of this talking head behind Michael.

I'm in my beige sweater that I wear through the whole episode with my crazy ponytail.

All right.

And then it cuts to me at my desk during his talking head, and I'm in a white t-shirt, a white button-down with a black sweater vest, and a different hairstyle.

They edited in a different piece of footage to cut to, and I'm completely

from a different episode.

I'm in a white button-down and a black sweater.

I'm looking at it now.

I see.

Okay, beige sweater.

Okay.

Over Michael's shoulder through the window.

At the copier.

Jim wrote, Meredith, I heard you're turning 46, but come on.

You're an accountant.

Just fudge the numbers.

Not bad.

Pretty funny.

See me at the copier?

Yeah.

I don't appreciate condoning corporate fraud, though.

Now, I leave the copier.

I go to my desk.

Go to your desk.

This is apparently when you're changing clothes.

Yes.

Really?

So what are you doing back there?

You're putting on a.

People out here are expecting.

I've already set the bar.

See?

Really high.

Oh, look at that.

Look at that.

I'm in a completely different outfit.

Ha ha.

Whoa.

I have something else to talk about in this scene.

But, okay, can you just say, though, okay, maybe I fumbled the bobblehead moment, but I did catch a continuity error.

Okay.

I will not.

Suck it.

Suck it.

Okay.

I'm giving that to you.

I didn't see it.

I didn't see it.

Thank you.

You saw it.

I saw something.

I did it.

So you saw something too.

What did you see?

Well, I'm not going to take credit for this.

This was from Is Rosis on Twitter.

I-Z Rosis, capital I-Z Rosis on Twitter.

Okay.

Mentions that in this moment when Michael's reading Jim's comment, Jim references that Meredith is an accountant.

Yeah.

Wait, we just watched the scene and you didn't catch that.

Because I was looking at my outfit.

You were looking at your outfit.

I was listening to the words and I heard it too.

That's just a dig.

I heard it as well.

So,

you know, her question was, what's up with that?

I thought there were three accountants.

Why does he say you're an accountant?

Just fudge the numbers.

This is another continuity error.

Another.

So here's something that I have at home.

Okay.

That is an amazing thing.

It's called the show Bible.

Okay.

Do you know what a show Bible is for a TV show?

I do.

Okay, you know.

Let's explain it to people.

A show Bible is a giant document.

I mean, like thousands of pages.

It looks like a phone book.

It looks like a phone book.

And in it, it lists every character and every fact about them.

And every episode, if we learn something new about them, it gets put in the Bible.

Yes.

So it says our job, it says our relationships to people.

I have a copy of the show Bible for the office.

Wow.

How I got this, I don't know.

I mean, there's probably only like two or three of them.

Yes, I know.

And I think I borrowed it

because I over the summer.

And you didn't give it back?

Yes.

I think this is true.

Over the summer from season eight to season nine, Greg Daniels came to John and I and asked us if we had any ideas for our final character arc in season nine.

And he said, if it helps you, you can borrow the show Bible.

So, wait, Greg, I think Jenna has your show Bible.

I've got, if you've been looking for it,

maybe I shouldn't be saying this out loud because I really love my show Bible.

I could probably make a copy before I receive it.

I think you should make a copy.

According to the show Bible, Meredith's job is customer service rep slash supplier relations.

She is not an accountant.

No, she's not an accountant.

No.

And Isrosis said,

What is her job?

Because I know she's not an accountant.

So that's your answer.

Also, Kelly is a customer service rep.

And I remember there was a bit of a story where we put her back in that other room in the annex back by Toby because she talked too much.

She was too chatty and she was bothering Meredith.

So they moved her back there.

But really, the reason she sat back there was because she was a writer and they didn't want her to waste her writing time doing background work.

Yeah, so she had to be like

separated so she could get out to write.

But they made it a story point.

You know what greg said one time um we had a new writer one season and he was talking to me they they were gonna they were gonna be giving like food in the episode and they were they handed me like this steak or whatever and i was like well my character's a vegetarian and he was like oh i didn't realize that i was like yeah my character is a vegetarian and then greg was like standing next to me and he was like you know what anything you want to know about each of their characters just go talk to them they know their character they know sort of like the canon of all they've lived every episode and they know their individual character story so well.

I didn't know your character was a vegetarian.

When do we establish that?

It's established early on and then like it's throughout throughout all the years.

Like at Diwali, I was like, I guess I'll just eat non.

What if non?

Like there's like a whole thing.

Oh, I'm going to look it up in the show Bible.

Okay, look it up in the show Bible.

Maybe we should, well, let's get back to this.

Episode a little bit.

We got on a tangent.

Oh, me and you on a tangent?

Get out of town.

Hard to believe.

What What are you even talking about?

All right.

So there's this scene early on where Pam and Michael are stuck in the office together.

And I remember I could not get through this scene.

There's this never-ending drum roll where Michael wants me to announce who has a birthday coming up.

And he also calls you his assistantness,

which I think is hilarious.

Like he has such a grandiose view of his job and who he is.

You are his assistant.

You're not front reception for the whole company.

You're Michael's assistant.

Personal assistant.

You're his personal assistant.

It is not true.

And he does this never-ending drum roll on the desk that was making me laugh.

And he wants me to announce whose birthday is coming up.

And I say, there's no birthdays.

And he's like, well, next one, just who is it?

So then I say, well, Meredith's birthday is next month.

And then I'm just, I am just giving him nothing in the scene.

And he starts swooping his phone across my face to see if he can find signs of life.

Yes.

I cracked up.

Oh my gosh.

He was so funny when he was doing that.

I just remember when I was re-watching this, I just remember losing it.

But that's sort of where we set up that storyline is that we now have to throw a party for Meredith whose birthday is next month.

This is like a real dork thing, but when I watch these early scenes of Michael's office, it looks so different over the years.

You know, like there's that shelf in the corner.

He doesn't have the tall standing shelf with two doors.

It's a different lower shelf.

I don't know if you like look at all that and I'm like, oh, his office.

Like the furniture in his office keeps changing.

This is a super nerdy thing for me to notice, but I mean, I don't notice bobbleheads, but if you're going to notice a major story point, if you're going to move a cabinet, I'm going to notice.

So the next big sort of plot point scene is Rain asking Jim if he wants to form an alliance.

And this produced one of our inside joke lines.

He asks him if he wants to form an alliance.

And Jim pauses and then he says, Absolutely, I do.

And we used to say that to each other on the set.

That used to be a thing.

Absolutely, Absolutely.

I do.

I love, I love this so much because it's just like Jim finally gets to have fun at work.

This is like one of his favorite days, you would think, right?

Like, cause otherwise it's just the monotony of it all.

And, and Dwight does drive him crazy.

And he talks about how crazy that Dwight makes him.

And he finally gets to like really mess with him at Dwight's invitation.

That is the best.

He has that talking head where he says, sometimes it's just handed to you.

I mean, you're thinking, how can I mess with this guy?

And then here, this wonderful gift comes.

So after they decide to form the alliance, he says, don't tell anyone.

You can't tell anyone.

Right.

Jim's like, of course not.

And then Jim immediately comes up to the reception desk and tells me that he's formed an alliance with Dwight.

Right.

And you see Dwight hovering in the background, listening in, and he wants to get Jim away from me.

So he has this line where he's like,

Jim, can I talk to you about

the paper products?

So I listen to the DVD commentary of this.

And I guess in that scene, they have a bunch of takes where Rain, every time, he would change

the end of the line.

And I think it was Mike Scher said his favorite alt of that was, hey, Jim, can I talk to you about the,

he just like mumbles something that you couldn't even hear?

I love that.

I also loved like John, John Krasinski as Jim.

Just, you could just see John, I think because we know him having so much fun, you know, like when, when they go into like the kitchen and Dwight's like, what are you doing?

He's like, I'm, I'm working her, you know, like, he's like, I'm on this.

Okay.

Like, I just saw John, like our friend John, having so much fun in that moment.

And it, it just made me smile.

It's so cute the whole way that he is winding Dwight up in this.

episode.

It happens again where he goes into the kitchen where he's supposed to be spying on Toby and Kevin who are having lunch.

Oh my God, that conversation is the most ridiculous, like amazing, boring conversation.

Yes.

And that produced another most frequently quoted inside joke line on the office, which is when they're talking about the bread.

And then John's take on that line, he says, their bread is very good.

Very good.

We would do that all the time.

And then here you are, the bread maker.

Oh, my gosh.

Full circle life moment.

Guys, my bread is very good.

Thank you.

Also, we cannot not talk about the fact of how eagerly Pam is to join in Jim's prank and becomes a huge participant, like in pulling this prank on Dwight.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Well, this is their opportunity to spend time together.

Any opportunity to team up with Jim.

I mean,

in the deleted scene, we established that the phone rings very infrequently,

which we could probably have guessed anyway.

This is so much fun for her.

She is having so much fun and Jim is just loving it.

And his talking head about like how brilliant you were, that you just came up, Pam came up with that all on her own.

Yeah, when I come up to his desk and I'm like all fraught with it, oh, I just don't know.

Michael's told me so many things and I want to unload all these secrets, but he told me not to.

And I'm doing that all so that Dwight can overhear it.

Yeah, Dwight's like jackpot.

But Jim is just so enamored with Pam and the scene.

And you know what?

I'm a Jam fan, you guys.

I am.

And I love their storyline.

I was just like a total fan of them.

And I remember like every little nugget they had together.

I was like, oh my God.

And this is definitely one of those episodes.

Should we take a break?

I don't know.

Do you want to take a break?

Please take us to a break.

Oh my God.

I remember when I left home and I had graduated college and I was getting my own apartment.

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All right.

All right.

So another big part of this episode is Oscar baiting Michael into donating to his nephew's walkathon charity, but Michael sort of not getting what a walk-a-thon is.

And so he puts in this big bid.

And this is, this is an example also of the benefit of the documentary crew element of the show, because

you can tell at first when Oscar walks into his office and asks him if he'll donate to his nephew's charity, he doesn't want to.

If the cameras weren't there, he would probably say no.

Right, right.

But he can't say no.

He wants to look like a good guy.

He wants to look like a good guy.

And so then he goes over the top and he donates $25.

And only later is it brought to his attention that it's $25

per mile.

Yes, exactly.

And that realization happens in a great scene with Jim at the birthday party.

And there is just this long pause.

I'll tell you what, Steve Carell is better than anyone at letting an emotion wash across his face.

And you watch that emotion of like, oh, crap.

Like, just like, oh, what did I do?

Like go across his face.

And I feel like we see this again in Funrun.

right?

Because he like signs up to do like so many miles and he doesn't realize.

What is something about Michael does not understand the concept of

a walk-a-thon or anything like that?

But no, that is so good.

Well, I did, I added it up because in the in the episode, Michael, once he realizes it's per mile, he asks Oscar, like, hey, how strong is your nephew?

Like, is he in good shape?

He did eight miles.

So Michael has pledged $450.

I did the math.

He thinks he's pledged 20.

25.

But instead, he pledged $450.

I also need to go back.

I skipped something that I think is really a fun thing.

In the parking lot, there's a scene where

Jim and Dwight.

What am I going to say?

It was Phyllis's car.

It was Phyllis's car.

Yes.

Jim and Dwight are standing next to a car and they are comparing notes about everybody in the office and what they've learned.

And they're standing next to a car and it's Phyllis's car.

Yes.

And Rain, as Dwight, keeps kicking the car.

Yeah.

And Phyllis, she didn't care for it.

She was very nervous about it.

And I guess at some point she went up to Rain and said, listen, it's totally fine if you kick my car, but don't kick the car or the hubcap.

Just the tire.

Just the tire.

We used to park our cars in that little parking lot.

Yeah.

And a lot of our real cars have appeared as cars

in the show.

And then they, in seasons later, they had us move our cars.

I think maybe they realized there's like liability or something.

I mean, so, but in those early days, those were our cars.

A very, very, very big element of this episode is the point where

Dwight

ends up in a box in the warehouse to spy.

And more than any other question, when I put this out to fans for questions, the most questions that we got, the most frequently asked questions, were about this box.

Right.

How long was Rain in the box?

How many takes did we do?

How many boxes did we use?

Right.

One of the questions was, there's a scene where where Pam is on the phone doing a fake phone call and the box kind of tips over.

Wait, and I laugh and run off.

Wait, I have a note card?

I have a note card about this.

What is it?

Okay, I know you put it out to Twitter, but this is your BFF.

So I get to

ask the first question.

Jenna question, Sammy Colin.

Did you really break and laugh by the box?

I think you did because I know what happens to your shoulders when you really laugh.

This was the question.

This is the question that people want to know.

I think think I faked it.

What?

Yeah, I don't think I really broke.

I don't want to believe that.

I know.

I think because I remember shooting that scene and I remember it was very technical.

Okay.

So it was,

I, it was happening over my shoulder.

Stuff was happening over my shoulder, but there was a way where they wanted

me to break at a certain moment.

So it was kind of technical.

So you had to sort of get out of the way and the box was tipping.

Yes, exactly.

So I remember shooting it a number of times, and I remember thinking to myself, gosh, does this even look real?

Like, do I, it's, it's a really, there are two things that I think are really hard to do when you're acting.

One of them is cry, right?

But I think people would expect that, but the other is to laugh convincingly.

Yes, you know, who has the best fake laugh is Steve Carell.

Steve Carell can do this fake laugh that is the most honest, genuine laugh.

And every time he would do it, I would start to laugh, even though I knew it was a fake laugh.

It was so contagious.

He's the best at it.

I find it's easier to cry than to fake laughs for acting.

It's very difficult.

It is.

The reason I think that I didn't really break is because I remember having anxiety over whether or not anyone was going to buy it.

Jenna, I have a little something on my note card here.

What is it?

I have another note card.

I wrote, this is the first time we see Daryl.

Yes.

Yes.

When rain pops out of the box at the end, Daryl is down down there.

Now, he is not going to have a big scene.

We're not going to hear him speak until the next episode, which is basketball.

Yes, but that is the first time we see Daryl.

So I was very excited.

I know.

And look, my note card came in handy.

I love that about her.

I love how we plant seeds that grow later.

Right.

We don't, that is a person who.

is going to be a major character on the show, but we introduce him just as a guy seeing the rain come out of the box.

Yeah, that is one of the things.

And I know we say it over and over, and we will for the life of this podcast, but one of the things I love about what Greg Daniels did is he starts in the middle.

He doesn't like spoon-feed you information, just the way they design the show.

You play catch-up as an audience member.

You're just like a day in the life, and you're right in the middle.

And I love that.

Yes, I love that too.

Okay.

Here's a big confession about the box.

This is going to blow your mind.

What?

Rain wasn't in the box most of the time.

Who was in the box?

Phil Shay's in the box.

Who's in the box?

Phil Shea,

our prop guy.

Prop guy.

Yeah.

Phil Shea.

Phil Shea is a very tall person.

Yeah, well, so is Rain.

And he was in that box all the time.

So most of the box acting was done by Phil Shea, of course, except for the end where Rain busts out.

And comes in.

So in that scene where I'm cracking up,

Phil Shea was in the box.

Oh, my gosh.

You know what I think we should do, Angela?

Tell me, Jenna.

I think we should call Phil Shea and get him to answer all of our our questions about the box.

What was it like in the box?

Phil Shea, we are about to blow up your phone.

Hello.

Phil?

Yes.

Phil Shea, it's Jenna and Angela.

Hi, Phil.

Oh, hey, guys.

How are you?

Good.

How are you?

Thank you so much for letting us call and bug you.

It's always a pleasure to help out Pam and Angela.

Oh, my God.

Phil, thank you so much.

It's just so nice to hear your voice.

That's what I was thinking.

I was like, gosh, it's so nice to hear your voice.

Hey, what an experience we had for nine years, right?

Yes.

We were the luckiest.

We were the luckiest.

Well, if you have a second, Phil, can we ask you some questions from the Alliance episode?

Absolutely.

So we opened up questions to the fans, and the

overwhelmingly, the thing people wanted to know about was the box that Rain gets into in the warehouse.

So

they wanted to know how long he was in the box, everything about the box.

But Phil, I know you were in the box.

Rain only got in after all the shoeing and the scooching and the sliding and then the tumbling was done.

Yeah.

Phil, you did all of that in the box.

You were the scoocher and the tumbler and all that?

I was.

Apparently, Mr.

Zabornak, our line producer, didn't think we had enough money to hire a stunt guy, so he assigned me to be in the box.

And I remember I had to go out and buy my own elbow pads and knee pads.

And then

I had a loose walkie-talkie in there with me with Liz Ryan who was the first AP shouting out all of Brian Gordon who was our director for that episode command I remember like it was yesterday so Phil can you take me through it from the beginning you you get a script and it says this character has to be in a box so what do you do because you're in charge of getting the box as the prop master so what where do you start on that particular prop like i i sought out greg daniels and i said

do you see rain sitting down squatting in the box or is he kneeling down on his hands and

knees?

And he said, kneeling on his hands and knees.

And Rain is tall.

Rain is tall, right?

And so are you, Phil.

You're very tall.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rain is, I think, 6'1 or 6'2.

I'm 6'1 if I blow-dry my hair.

You do have great hair.

Like, you guys should know, Phil has an amazing head of hair.

He really does.

This is true.

I leased it.

I leased it.

It's a Hollywood fake hairdo.

But

I tracked Rain down and I asked him to get on his hands and knees and I was measuring for this box.

Wait, you made Rain get on his hands and knees and then you measured him to know how big?

That was season one.

Rain was willing to do anything.

Then I went to a couple box cities around Southern California.

No one had a box close to that.

So then I went on to the internet and I looked at box manufacturers in Southern California.

I found a company in San Diego.

named Kent Landsberg.

And you have to understand, as prop people, we have a very short production time and lead time to get all these props.

So I called this Kent Landsberg paper company and asked to speak to the manager.

And in a much more frenetic and hyper voice, I said, look, you got to help me out.

I have to have a custom box made.

I probably need about 100 of them and they need to be the

dimension.

And San Diego, San Diego is like three hours away, too.

Well, and also, that's such a good point.

You didn't need one box.

You need one box.

You needed 100 boxes because you didn't know how many takes we were going to do.

And Brian Gordon, the director of this episode, ended up being notorious for many, many tons of takes.

So you were right to cover your bases and get 100.

Yes.

Right.

And we shot that scene in the Dunder Mifflin warehouse.

We wanted to have some boxes on the shelves.

Oh, right.

Just ones that he didn't bust out of.

Yeah.

Right.

Of course.

It wasn't a prop box.

It just appeared out of nowhere.

So we had to give some legitimacy to where it originated from.

Look at all the detail.

Look at all the detail.

So how did you do it?

So how'd you do it?

This guy said he would do it, no problem.

And then, how'd you get them?

Well, I talked to him.

He said the lead time is usually a month and a half.

I said, Yeah, four days.

Oh, no.

I need the boxes in four days.

And I said, It was for a TV show.

He says, for the office, which is a remake of the British version.

And he probably said, I'm sorry, I'm a huge fan of the British version, and I'm not

a show.

It's like you guys were listening into the phone call.

That's exactly what he said.

No, no, he said he would be glad to make an exception for a TV show.

So he made it happen.

We got the boxes delivered to Culver City, which is where we shot that episode in our first season.

And then they put the graphics on the box and we had them back two days before we were filming.

So we had it all done and rained fit in the box fine.

And then it was just about coordinating where the holes would be inserted by Navy and I'm inside the box with Dwight's Swiss Army knife.

And

it was a great scene.

I mean, I remember we shot that down.

I think it was a Friday night we shot that scene, but it was fun.

Everybody was laughing.

The crew was always laughing on that show.

And

it was a great scene.

And

Fans love it so much.

Oh, Phil, thank you so much

so much.

I'm looking at a picture that I'll email you that Michael Gallenberg gave me.

I'm going to send you a picture as soon as we hang up of me getting ready to tape up the fist box.

And I don't know if you have the

picture on the podcast, but I'm going to take a picture.

We can put it on our website, May.

Yeah.

Okay,

I'll take a picture.

And you can see by the expression on my face after about take 50,

you were like in a sweat lodge.

Oh, Phil, thank you.

But, Jenna, you were there, and you remember the last take when Brian Gordon said one more.

I hope you remember this, where he had me do all this stuff.

And then, when I cut myself out of the box, everybody had went and hit.

Oh, remember,

I came out into the warehouse and

so he at least played a practical joke on me at the end to make me laugh.

So, that was pretty funny.

We did.

We left you in the box, and we pretended like we were still filming, and then you just were there for so long.

That is horrible.

That is kind of horrible.

Why were we so mean?

Phil, I would have, if I was there, Phil, I would have come up and said, Phil, get out.

They left.

It was so funny.

No, it was funny.

It was very funny.

It was embracing.

Phil, I do.

Can I throw two questions at you really quickly before we let you go?

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

So after

getting this box sounds like it was a massive undertaking.

Phil, your job is sounding really fun.

Like you read an episode and then it's, you have to come up with all these weird objects and gags.

It sounds fun and stressful, Phil.

Like, like, how do you get 100 boxes in four days?

It's always fun.

It's always stressful.

And it's great to be, like I said, a small part of production that resonates with viewers and fans across generations, as the office did.

So it is fun.

It is stressful.

But it's our...

It's a real joy to do it when everybody laughs and everybody enjoys the prop, then it adds a little value to the scripted scene.

And then we all go home and laugh and had a good day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, we sure appreciate you, and we are going to be calling you a lot, the office lady.

So thank you.

Thanks for taking the time, Phil.

I have vivid memories of all the props we made for the office.

So anytime you guys want to call me, can we?

Okay, because anytime.

As you were talking, I had like eight questions about different episodes down the road.

So I did too.

We will definitely be calling you back, Phil.

Thank you so much.

We miss you.

We're going to keep Dunder Mifflin going.

I I miss you as well.

And let's keep Dunder Mifflin relevant for the next 30 years.

Yay.

All right, Phil.

Well, have a good day.

Yeah.

Tell everyone we say hi over there.

Okay.

I will.

Thanks, Jenna.

Thanks, Angela.

All right.

Bye.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye.

What's next, Jenna?

Well, three note cards left.

Well, now we need to talk about the cake.

Oh, yes.

The ice cream, the mint chocolate chip ice cream cake.

Yes.

I got so sick.

We ate that cake.

This is the second most frequently asked question was about the cake and what the cake was like and did we really eat the cake oh we ate that cake you guys and guess what you start filming we would start filming at 7 30 a.m so at 7 30 a.m you you're gonna eat ice cream cake someone hands you a plate of ice cream cake at 7 30 a.m and you're gonna eat it for five hours all day and then they're like let's break for lunch and you're like i want to puke yeah let me say something about prop food oh do it bj novak loves prop food mindy kaling loves prop food food.

I also kind of like it.

I get real excited when I have to snack in a scene.

I do not because I know it's going to turn on me.

I know.

And it's going to turn on me every time.

Every time I still make the same mistakes.

Every time I would see Ed Helms, Mindy Kaling, you, BJ, be like, ooh, prop food, and get so excited.

Yeah, like, guys, base yourself.

It's going to get gross.

We'd have a party in the conference room and they'd have like pigs in a blanket.

And you just, me and BJ would be over there.

I'd be like, guys, slow down.

No.

You're going to have to eat that for four hours.

I know.

Well, this was the first time that I made the mistake.

And I started wolfing down ice cream cake.

And then you have to match that in every shot.

So, whatever you do in that first shot, you then have to match it.

So, continuity-wise, it all makes sense.

And here's the thing: I'm in the background of most of the ice cream eating scenes.

What do you mean?

So, I was wolfing it down in the background.

She didn't have to.

She was in the background.

I was in the background.

And then, by the time it was time for my close-up, I was so sick.

I didn't want to eat the ice cream cake, but then I had to.

I'll tell you this.

I had a slice and Michael walks up to Phyllis and I.

And when he walks up, poor Steve is like wolfing the cake down

as he's talking.

He would eat a full piece every take.

Oh, man.

They eventually got a bucket, though, they could spit in.

which is also disgusting.

It's called a spit bucket.

It's called a spit bucket.

But he would walk up eating the cake and he was talking to Phyllis and Meredith and my character.

And I was just going to take one bite as he walked up.

And by the end of the five hours of doing this scene, when I would scoop up that one bite, my hand would start to shake because I was anticipating it.

So I was like,

Yes, your body was rejecting it.

My body was rejecting it.

It was like, please don't put that mint chocolate chip ice cream in your mouth one more time, ever again for the rest of your life.

I can't eat it.

I can't eat it.

I can't eat it now.

My daughter loves mint chocolate chip.

I don't want it near me.

I loved ice cream cake in general.

No.

And only it was last year for my son's seventh birthday, I finally ate a piece of ice cream cake again.

But that's, it had been like I'd gone on like a 15-year moratorium.

So the final thing I think we should talk about

with this episode

is the scene with Roy coming into the office and confronting Jim.

You guys are so busted.

I remember like being over in accounting and being like, oh, and also David Denman can be scary when he wants to be.

He can be intimidating.

He's such a teddy bear in real life.

I know.

He's so snugly.

When he came in like that, he's a big guy.

He's a big guy.

And I think he turns my character on because he's such a man.

Like, you see that play out later where I do.

I'm clearly like enamored with Roy.

But in that moment, I was like, oh my God, Roy's going to kick Jim's ass.

Yeah.

Your character, Angela, likes a beefy alpha male.

For sure.

She just does.

That's true.

So I remember this scene.

I remember breaking it down.

We shot a ton of versions of this scene because we really didn't know how big of a reaction Roy should have.

So the first thing I remember was that somehow in the scene when Jim and I are giggling about our accomplishment, we had to find a way to hold hands.

That there had to be like an organic way.

An organic way where his arm is around me.

There had to be something because Roy has walked in the door before and seen Jim standing at reception talking to me.

So we had to come up with this reason that John would come around the front of the desk.

He's so excited.

Yeah, he's so excited that he jogs around.

So instead of coming up to me with the desk between us, which is what you've seen in the past, this was a big moment.

He breaks that barrier.

He comes around the desk.

He puts his arm on me.

We end up kind of holding hands and giggling.

And I remember us really struggling to make sure that it looked real and organic and not stage.

We didn't want to do something so out of the ordinary that you would be expecting something to happen.

Right.

And I think we, I think we accomplished it.

And then when he burst in the door, there were a couple of takes where he pushed Jim up against a wall where he like got really more physical with Jim.

And so we shot all these different versions so that we could get it just right.

Right.

And that, and the version they went with is the best.

I think if Roy had gotten too physical there, it just would have taken us all out of it because we'd be like, whoa.

But I think just how ticked off he was and then i thought john was brilliant in that moment he was so believable when he was like i don't even know how to explain this because he realizes how ridiculous their whole day has been yeah and how do you explain what they've been doing yeah um and and they're so busted though like

it just it it is a moment that made me totally cringe Yeah, and you know that Pam and Roy had words about that.

Oh, the car ride home.

The car.

Yes.

Yes.

Car ride home.

That was a tough one.

My husband and I always talk about that.

Like if we'll be like at a dinner party or something and you see like a couple have like an awkward exchange, I'll like lean over to my husband and be like, oof, car ride home.

Car ride home.

That's going to be a rough one.

So that's it.

That's the alliance.

Can I say one more thing?

I want to say one more thing.

This episode has a special place in my family's life.

Why?

Because while we were shooting this episode, they got me out early so that I could go home for my my sister's wedding, my real sister's wedding.

I had to travel.

So she got married while we were shooting this episode.

And this year, she celebrated her 15th wedding anniversary.

Isn't that sweet?

So when I was watching this, I remembered that.

That's like a fun full circle life moment, too.

I know.

Well, this is the thing you guys are going to hear a lot as we do this podcast is, you know, this show spanned 10 years of our lives.

And so much life happens in those 10 years.

And we really do have all these special memories of our own lives mixed in with what was happening on the office.

And I feel like it shows because we all became so invested in each other's lives.

We are our own misfit family.

Like the cast of the

people that play the characters on the office in real life have a lot of shared life moments and memories.

And I think it just makes the show special to me.

So when I watch it, I remember things too.

Yeah.

And it's, it's just so, I love that you shared that.

Yay.

Okay.

That was the alliance, everyone.

That's right.

Don't judge me for the bobblehead moment.

Don't judge me.

Jenna's already judging me enough, so just, you know, you can rest.

I judged you and then it was over because then you pointed out that great other fact about your airfit.

Thank you very much.

You earned back my restaurant.

I redeemed immediately.

Okay, so you guys, we would love to hear your questions.

Or if we get something wrong, if we miss something.

We might miss a few things.

For sure.

I mean, we get chatty, Jenna.

We get a little chatty.

And we miss things.

We miss things.

So write us.

Yes, you can contact us at office ladies at earwolf.com.

If you have questions about an episode, put the episode title in your subject line.

Do that for Jenna.

Please.

I like organizations.

That'll really help us organize your questions.

Please do that for Jenna or you can call me invent.

You can put general Q ⁇ A if it's a general Q ⁇ A question, but if it's assigned to an episode, we want to make sure that we flag it for that episode.

You know what else you can do?

What else, Jenna?

You can send us an audio memo.

Oh, oh, yes, do that because then we get to hear your voice and it's kind of fun.

And can we wait?

Can we play that in the episode?

I think we could.

you guys so we may that's so much fun so there's a lot of options that is officeladies at earwolf.com we sound official we really do we've got an email we have an email i'm excited next week is basketball basketball one of my favorites when we became best friends we became best friends and basketball while shooting the basketball episode and we're gonna tell you all about it we'll tell you all about it all right see ya see ya

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.

Our producer is Cody Fisher, our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

Remember, you can listen to ad-free versions of Office Ladies on Stitcher Premium.

For a free month of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.

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