Health Care with Rainn Wilson

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I'm Jenna Fisher.

And I'm Angela Kinsey.

We were on The Office together and we're best friends.

And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.

We're the office ladies.

Hey, welcome back to Office Ladies.

It is Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fisher.

And we're going to be talking today about healthcare.

Healthcare, one of my favorite episodes from season one.

I love it.

I love this episode because to me, it's the office at its best because it's ordinary people doing ordinary things and it all goes south.

And it's big stakes because having a job that has good healthcare is everything.

So yes, today we are talking about season one, episode three, healthcare.

It was written by Paul Lieberstein, who plays Toby Flenderson.

Yes.

And directed by Ken Whittingham.

I love Ken.

And we love Ken.

Ken is the tall, gentle man.

Like he is just like so sweet and kind.

Oh, you and I would talk to Ken all the time.

All the time.

Yeah.

Probably like too much.

Like he probably at some point was like, ladies, I have work to do.

I kind of have work to do.

And we're like, hi, Ken.

He's just so lovely.

We had Ken back a lot.

Over the entire nine seasons, he directed nine episodes of the office including phyllis's wedding yes you just had a little bit of st louis there i hear it i hear it every once in a while but you said over

oh is that a st louis thing i don't know but you say some words like different i think i think it's st.

Louis.

The biggest St.

Louis thing that I don't do, but that Phyllis does, speaking of Phyllis, is Fardy Far.

Oh.

So we have a highway there called Highway 44.

Yeah.

They call it Farty Far, and you eat with a fark.

Yeah.

Sometimes Rain and Phyllis sat back to back, you know?

Yeah.

And every once in a while, Rain would just turn around to Phyllis and say, Phyllis, say 44.

And she would like, Phyllis, like when she gets really tickled, she snorts when she laughs.

So she'd be like, farty far.

Okay.

All right.

Keep going.

All right.

Well, let me do a summary.

of healthcare.

It's pretty simple.

Jan tells Michael that he needs to pick a cheaper healthcare plan for his employees to help prevent downsizing.

Michael gives the job to Dwight and then hides in his office all day because he knows

no one is going to want their health care slash.

This is classic Michael passing the buck, which you're going to see over and over and over in the lifetime of the show.

So after Dwight picks a plan that slashes almost all the benefits and the entire office revolts, Michael promises us a surprise.

Very vague.

Yes,

which is what you do with your children when you have to give them right bad news, but there's going to be a surprise.

It's so true.

And what I think is interesting is that everyone is skeptical, but also like, well, maybe there is a surprise.

It's so sad.

There could be a surprise.

It's a little bit like Charlie Brown kicked the football.

Like, you know, when Lucy kept doing that, I feel like they're like, there's no way he's going to come through.

But maybe because we hate our jobs so much.

So maybe there'll be something nice.

It's going to happen.

But then Michael has to spend the entire rest of the day scrambling to come up with something.

Yeah.

And what he comes up with is

just nothing.

Just nothing.

Yes.

All right, Jonah, do you want to do some fast facts?

You know, I do.

I know you do.

You know it.

All right.

So my first fast fact is that after the pilot episode, which we talked about was pretty much a word-for-word adaptation of the British pilot because this was a British television show before it was an American television show.

After that, we started writing all original episodes.

So Diversity Day was all original.

It was our story.

And this is all original with the exception of a little wink, a little nod to the British show.

What, Trivia Master?

What?

So in an episode of the British Office, their Dwight character, whose name is Gareth, he gets to lead an investigation into some dirty emails that came into the office.

And so, he takes over the conference room and he even puts a little sign on the window.

And that is the little thing that we stole for this episode: Dwight is going to do that same thing.

He's going to take over the conference room.

Yes.

But in this case, it is to pick a new health care plan for the company.

Right.

So we did that from time to time.

We just do like these little nods to the British show, which I always think are kind of fun, especially because there were people who were huge fans of the original who were then watching our show.

And that was like a little treat.

Well, I like it.

I like where your head's at.

Starting out this episode.

You like it.

Some really good trivia, Jenna.

I like where you're going.

I like it.

I've got my note cards ready, lady.

Do you want to hit me with a note card or shall I continue with fast facts?

No, no, no.

Do your fast facts.

I got some note cards waiting for you, though.

All right.

Well, this is a fast fact, and it's actually something, Angela, that you pointed out.

Oh, it's, is it a Kinsey fast fact?

It's a Kinsey fast fact.

Okay.

That this is the first time we see Devin and Creed at their desks.

Oh, yes, yes.

I love spotting little things in the background.

You are, I'm going to label you our background expert.

No, don't.

I'm not the expert expert.

You are, but you notice those things.

You really notice continuity stuff.

Was it because you spent so much time in the background, Angela?

Is that a dig?

No, we all did.

I'm totally kidding.

No, we did, but I'm like, all right, Miss Front Reception.

Let me tell you something.

Back in a counting corner, we noticed shiitake.

Okay, we noticed things.

No, but you were always lurking back there.

So I thought, maybe now I'm a lurker.

I thought maybe, you know, you're noticing more of what's happening back there.

Some real truths coming out today.

You know what I noticed in this episode?

That Jim has an E.T.

on his desk.

An E.T.

doll.

A little extraterrestrial doll?

Yes.

See what I'm saying?

This is a Kinsey background observation.

He's wearing, he's got a little ET on his desk and the ET is wearing like a blue coat.

I have never noticed that.

I know.

It's at, it's at, for you guys watching, it's at 14 minutes around 35 seconds.

There's an ET on Jim's desk and I'm like, what the heck?

I don't remember that ET.

Okay, anyway, see if you see ET at 14 minutes.

Wow.

See what I'm saying?

You did have a note card.

I have a ton of note cards.

There you go.

I have more.

Okay.

Go.

All right, Angela.

Here's my last fast fact.

And this is something I learned when I was doing my prep for this episode and I listened to the DVD commentary.

So this is the third episode of season one.

However, we shot it sixth.

What?

Yeah.

So I remember we shot the pilot and then we waited like six months to see if we got picked up.

Yeah.

And then when we did get picked up, the writers had turned in, like they had all their scripts ready for season one because there were only five more to do.

That's right.

We only did six.

We did not shoot them in the same order in which they aired.

So when we finished this episode, we all said goodbye.

Oh my gosh.

Do you know that I remember that now?

That puts a whole different filter on it now, like re-watching it, because I feel like we were really loosey-goosey in this episode.

I mean, we're going to talk about it, but a few of us just full-on laugh and it's in the episode.

But we were really, we were a tight-knit group by the time we were filming this.

Yeah, we were all passing it.

And I think it shows in the episode.

And I think that might also be why I have such like a warm place in my heart for this episode, because when we were filming this episode, we really believed, we really, really believed that this was the last one we would ever do.

Oh, for sure.

I thought we were not coming back at all.

And I had my name, like they, they printed out our name like on paper, but then laminated it, you know, for our trailer door.

Yeah, with a little bit of velcro, and that was on our trailer door.

And I took my little laminated piece of paper that said my name.

Me too.

I still have it.

I still have it.

You know what I did?

What?

I made a mixtape.

Oh my God.

I made a mixtape and I called it something like Scranton

sounds sounds of Scranton.

Sounds of Scranton.

And

I gave it to John, Rain, Steve, and BJ, BJ, along with a tiny homemade scrapbook of some photos.

And then you said, hi, 1994 called.

They want my mixtape back.

I'm sure those guys were like, this is.

And you were like, listen, listen.

Girliest present I've ever been given.

I just picture you giving that mixtape to people.

And some people like, they don't even have a tape player in their car.

No one, it was a CD.

Okay.

It was a mixed CD.

I call it mixtape.

Okay, I pictured it in actual.

No, it wasn't a cassette.

It was a CD.

I am certain if I had to bet money, I am certain no one ever listened to it.

Oh, I listened to it all the time.

You listened to it in your car ride because it was the sounds of Scranton.

It was the sounds of Scranton.

This is real.

So my commute to where we filmed the first season of The Office was very long.

It was over an hour because I lived in the San Fernando Valley and we shot in Culver City.

And if you live in Los Angeles or have ever been here, that is a very long commute in the morning.

And I wanted to, quote unquote, get in character.

So I wanted to pretend like I was driving in Scranton.

So I wanted some sounds of Scranton.

Did you, did you like

research what people were listening to in Scranton?

Like, how did you know?

How do you know these are the sounds of Scranton?

You know what?

I really don't.

I'm going to say I made a lot of assumptions.

And I kind of went back to my college days

and I had some classic rock

and a little bit of Garth Brooks.

But now that I'm saying it, I realize I don't really know what East Coast people listen to.

I was so whatever.

It put me in a headspace.

Okay.

Well, I just want you to know.

I want the sounds of Scranton on our website.

I'm going to look for it.

I want the players.

I bet I still have it.

Also, I want to know if it's going to be embarrassing.

If it was a CD, I want to know: did you make a little cover and write out each song, or did you type them out and print it?

Is there a photo?

What's the cover of the CD?

The cover of the C D is a collage

of different pictures that remind me of Scranton.

Wait, wait, wait.

Wait, wait, wait, no, no, no.

No, wait.

Please stop.

Please stop.

These aren't photos of people on the show.

No.

They're images of Scranton that you got from the computer, you got from the internet.

And it's a collage.

And so they're photos of Scranton.

Yes.

And it's called Sounds of Scranton.

Right.

You're the one who's the one who's the biggest story I know.

And I would work through it on my drive to get into the character of Pam.

Oh, my God.

And then I would go to work.

This is all why I love you.

This is why I love you.

Because I want to be best friends with a person that prints images of places in Scranton and makes a collage.

Well, am I acceptable CD on the bus?

As I'm telling this story now, it's occurring to me that when you live in a city, you don't make a tribute CD of the city you live in.

Like

I lived in St.

Louis my whole life, and I never drove around with a CD called Sounds of St.

Louis.

Well, I'm going to now.

Sounds of Los Angeles.

Ooh, let's make it.

I didn't know what to give as a rap gift.

That's a thing.

Do people know that?

When you finish a series, when you finish a season of a show, it's sort of customary to give out little presents to your cast members or to some of your crew members.

And so I really did not know what to give out.

You know, Kate Flannery, I gave out Sounds of Scranton.

Kate Flannery had these Dunder Mifflin candles made.

Do you remember that?

I have it.

I still have it.

I have it.

Yeah.

And she gave out like a Dunder Mifflin candle, but we really gifted.

We were like, we're done.

I got everyone to sign my script.

So I still have that.

And that's really cool.

And Kate gave me a photo of her and I standing at our trailers because we shared a trailer.

Kate and I had a trailer.

And just the only thing between our toilets was like a plastic accordion door.

So if I sat on my toilet and she sat on hers, our knees touched.

So we made a vow to never use our toilets.

We were like, like, we just can't.

We can't.

That's just not going to happen.

I remember that.

You remember our platform accordion?

I did.

It didn't even really shut.

So we just opened it and just shared basically one room with two toilets.

Well, when I think back to that time, I remember having anxiety about,

I mean, I've just had the most thrilling experience of my acting life.

I had been a struggling actor for eight years before I got my job on the office.

I'd never had a regular role on anything.

I'd done pilots, but they never got picked up.

So this was my first series.

And I thought, well, what do I do?

If this show gets canceled, I guess I just go back to the beginning.

I mean, we could have all had to go back and get day jobs again.

I mean, so Kate Flannery and I both, we did not quit our day jobs for the first season of The Office.

Oh, I remember that.

Kate Flannery was still a waitress at Kate Manalini in Beverly Hills.

And so she would work on the office and then she'd go wait tables.

I remember that.

Yeah.

And I was working at iOS, which is an improv theater, and I was helping run the office.

And I stayed on and would help.

Yeah.

I just would have gone back to helping run a theater and improv classes.

And I ran the intern program.

I fired someone who's now famous, one of my interns.

Who?

Can you say?

He's a lovable person and I love him.

Tell me.

So this was my intern who was always late.

He was always late.

The higher-ups said, okay, you can be late three times and then you you get fired.

And so as an intern, his job was to keep the restroom clean.

He had to come early, set up the box office.

Okay.

Like we needed him there early.

And he was late a lot, but I really liked him.

And then finally, they were like, you're going to have to fire him.

So he walks in one day and his name is Derek Waters, creator of drunk history.

Creator of drunk history.

And he walked in and he was really late.

And I was like, hey, Derek.

And he's like, hey, Angela, are you going to fire me today?

And I was like, I am.

And he goes, okay.

Oh, my gosh.

Angela, he told me this story.

I wrote a book.

Everyone, plug the actor's life, a survival guide.

Check it out.

Nice.

Local flex.

Nice flex.

Local bookstores.

Check it out.

I wrote a book and I interviewed Derek in the book.

And he told me the story of being fired from I.O.

I did not know it was you that fired him.

It was me.

But it's still very much on his mind because he mentioned it in an interview.

I know.

But anyway, I would just go back to running a theater, basically.

I have something, so I know healthcare is about the office, finding a good healthcare plan and the downsizing.

I know the overall arc of this episode, but I just want you to know I have started calling this episode the Pam Sass.

The Pam Sass.

Uh-huh.

And it's going to come up throughout this episode where Pam is super sassy.

Well, well.

Uh-huh.

It starts off right away when Michael comes up to you and you say, I'm not making any copies.

Like, you're sassy out of the gate, lady.

And then you say, oh, do you want me to repeat the messages for the, and like you look to camera.

I have many more as we go through this episode.

Oh my God.

What were you?

Did I piss you off before you watched this episode?

And then you're just looking for sassy moments.

I am not.

Hey, listen, you re-watch it and right away, you're just like, you are here.

I feel you are not here to mess around.

You try having a boss like Michael Scott and see what kind of mood it puts you in.

Well, you were sassy in this.

I was matter-of-fact.

Pam, sass.

Okay, go.

Go on.

What else is there?

That's it.

All right, lady, I think we should take a break.

I think we should, but I think we should tell everyone that when we come back from our break, we're going to have a special guest.

Well, I think you just told them.

I did.

It's going to be a tall drink of water.

Mr.

Rain Wilson.

Yes.

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It's time to break down the healthcare episode.

Let's do it.

All right, we're going to go a little rogue here.

Okay.

We're going to do a phone call with Rain Wilson.

With Rain Wilson.

Yeah, there were just too many things about this episode that were Dwight-centered, and we had a lot of questions from fans that I think we needed to go straight to the source.

We agreed.

We agreed, and Rain said yes, and we're so thrilled.

So we're going to talk to Rain.

We're going to call him.

Let's call Rain.

Hello.

Is this Rain Wilson?

Hey, Rain.

It is Rain Wilson.

Rain Wilson.

It's Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

What's up, fella?

How are you?

Thanks for doing this.

I'm great, guys.

Yeah.

I'm really good.

I'm launching a podcast this week called Metaphysical Milkshake.

Oh.

And I'm doing that with Reza Aslin.

And is this in coordination with Soul Pancake?

It is, yes.

And

it's life's big questions of, you know, philosophy and psychology and spirituality and sociology.

And we're talking to some of the world's greatest minds with some super interesting stories.

I love that that launches very soon.

That is so you, Rain.

That is so.

That is so you.

You are the person I go to with all of those questions in life.

We can tell people, I have called you on occasion, sobbing.

You are my person that I trust with those big life moments.

So, this makes total sense.

That's sweet.

It's true.

That's so sweet.

I call you anytime I have an issue in the kitchen or anything with cooking or bread,

anything yeast related.

I will say this, though.

Rain, you know what I love is that you do reach out to Jenna and I in times when you're definitely like wanting love and support.

And I love that we are all there for each other like that.

It's true.

Oh, yeah.

You guys are like the sisters that I never had.

Oh, you're too.

We've talked about you a little bit, like how you would look at us and say, look at them.

They just like, they're two hens, like cluck, clack, cluck, clack, cluck.

They will not stop talking.

i mean if the listeners could only know what those conversations were like on the side i mean it's just like i made the best lasagna you did i love lasagna one time i went to italy i had lasagna you know you went to italy i've been to spain once i like i mean rain rain so handsome do you like ham i love ham they were they weren't even that interesting rain they weren't even that interesting

that is like way more

fascinating than anything we ever talked about for hours on end

That's fantastic.

It's so okay.

Well, we have some questions for you about the healthcare episode.

We do.

All right.

Go.

So, we're talking to you about the healthcare episode, which is appropriate because this is a Dwight A storyline.

Big storyline.

Your first real big one, right?

Wow.

Thanks, guys.

Thanks for the support.

Yeah.

In 2004.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Hey, you did some great stuff a decade ago.

It's true.

All right.

So

I want to ask you, Rain, just what comes to mind for you when you first think of the healthcare episode?

That was the first episode that I remember that we spent an inordinate amount of time in the conference room.

Yeah.

And I remember saying hot dog fingers.

Hot dog fingers.

Which totally made us break.

And they left it in the episode.

Rain, I full on start laughing.

And then Brian breaks character and points to me and starts laughing.

And it's still in the episode.

That is your real real laughing.

That's me really laughing.

It's true.

They left in the edit you guys breaking, you guys cracking over these diseases.

It's truly hysterical.

But I do remember saying to Kate Flannery, didn't I say like you had your vagina removed?

And she's like, it was a hysterectomy.

It was my uterus.

I still have a vagina.

Yes, that was in the conference room.

But when you first come out, this is a frequently asked fan question, which is, did you guys improvise the fake diseases or were they scripted?

And I remember that there were scripted fake diseases, but then at a certain point,

just Paul and the director and other writers came down and they were just handing you a piece of paper with improvised fake diseases.

And none of us knew you were going to say hot dog fingers.

It was a complete and utter surprise.

That was not in the script.

Do you remember that?

Yes.

So that's exactly.

There were some very funny ones that were scripted.

And Nano Robot, Micro Invasion, or whatever that one was.

Right.

That was in there.

And a lot of great ones were in there.

But yeah, they kept feeding me other ones.

It was very hard for me to keep a straight pace.

I broke all the...

I know.

I remember thinking, how are we going to have any usable takes?

I did.

We all kept laughing.

You know, you get to a certain point in laughing when you just cross a line where you've just been tickled too much and you just can't bring it back.

Yeah.

That happened.

You know, that happened maybe like, I won't say every episode, but every two to three episodes, that kind of happened for me.

And it absolutely happened

in this one.

But my friend Kevin, Kevin Isola, who's an actor in New York,

he was visiting the set, and he was the one who actually threw out Hot Dog Fingers.

Oh,

my God.

That's amazing.

Kevin.

That's his claim to fame.

Yeah.

I hope he has a shirt that just says hot dog fingers.

I mean, I feel like we.

I am going to buy him that shirt right now send that that would be a really good that would be a really good shirt it would be wouldn't it yeah hot dog fingers rain you have one of my favorite talking heads in this episode i mean there's so many you have so many good ones over the years but this is like the one definitely season one that is like it sort of is like the quintessential in for Dwight.

Yes, it's the lion.

Your whole, like, like your whole rant about in the wild, there is no health care.

In the wild, healthcare is, ow, I hurt my leg.

Should we play it?

Do you want us to play it, Rain?

We have that here.

We're really hyped.

Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, you want to listen to yourself deliver a great talking head.

I do.

In the wild,

there is no healthcare.

In the wild, healthcare is ow, I hurt my leg.

I can't run.

A lion eats me, and I'm dead.

Wow,

I'm not dead.

I'm the lion.

You're dead.

I love that so much.

Oh Oh, my gosh.

The only thing I'll say about that one was, you know, we were really establishing Dwight and his logic and how seriously he took himself and these kind of rules that Dwight started to develop where he's very hierarchical and status.

And like,

this is how things must be done.

But he has a completely different set of rules

than other people do.

Just

how he sees the world and so one of the things i think that has given the character enduring appeal is um he sees the world in a very clear way with these kind of stratus stratum stratum hierarchies of rights and wrongs and moralities and how things work and how they should work and he's they're very severe and this is one of the first talking heads that kind of like dove delved into that world of dwight and it's all paul liberstein he wrote that and he was very happy with he was so excited to kind of help.

He really helped direct.

He wasn't directing the episode, but he was right there kind of getting a ton of notes on different inflections and ways to say it.

Oh, interesting.

Interesting.

Okay.

This is totally random, but Rain, in re-watching this, during that talking head, you're passing out the new healthcare plan.

You're tossing it to people.

You're handing it around the office.

And it looks like you have a lollipop in your mouth.

There is a white stick sticking out of your mouth as you're passing all these panels out.

You should know something about this podcast, Rain, which is that Angela is constantly picking up on these weird little details.

Well, I'm just like, what the heck?

When I rewatch it, I'm like, does Rain, as Dwight, is, are you sucking on a lollipop as you're passing this out?

Because that's brilliant.

I have no memory of that whatsoever, but I think maybe I was.

Yeah.

Well, look around four minutes, 50 seconds.

You like have, it looks like a lollipop in your mouth.

It's just about four minutes, 30 seconds.

No, 50, around 50 seconds, 50 seconds.

Flippantly passing these papers, though, sucking on a lollipop.

I thought it was really cool and powerful.

I don't know.

I loved it.

Well, this leads us into the scene with Jim and Pam confronting you about

confronting Dwight about picking a horrible plan, where he slashed all the benefits.

You have all those other great Dwightisms where you say you've never been sick, that you have an amazing immune system to which,

you know, we ask you, how can you have a great immune system if you've never been sick?

And it's just you have great genes.

And that's when you say that you can raise and lower your cholesterol at will.

Will.

And I say, why would you want to raise your cholesterol?

And you say, so I can lower it.

I remember shooting that scene with you.

And I remember that was the couplet that I couldn't get through.

Why would you?

That was the one that got me.

And that was a question from a fan, actually.

Christopher said, how many times did it take for you and Rain to get through the cholesterol scene?

And I can't remember how many times, but it was a lot, Christopher.

Yeah, it's funny how in history, looking back on the office, there are these quotes that pop out that become like the classic quotes of the character.

And it's interesting that.

you know, for Dwight, there's like 15 or 20 kind of Dwightisms that

stand the test of time and that fans love to, you know, identity theft is not a joke, Jim.

You know, some of these ones and

the cholesterol one is definitely one of them.

I feel like another one of those phrases that people talk about is the count chocolitis,

the scene when you are confronting Jim.

But also something that ended up on the cutting room floor from this were you actually had meetings with a bunch of people in the office.

You shot something where you confronted Oscar.

I think you had a meeting with him, didn't you, Angela?

And it was very short.

Probably.

He asks you if you wrote the fake diseases because he goes through and like interviews people.

Well, in your interview with Jim, you say, Count chocolatus.

Why did you write that down, Jim?

Is it because you know I love Count Chocola?

But I love the idea that you love Count Chocula, that that's what Dwight has for breakfast in the mornings, or maybe late at night while he's watching it.

Yeah, maybe it's a snack.

Maybe he models himself after Count Chocula.

Maybe there's a, he has an affinity for Count Chocola, the character, the person behind the cereal.

Yeah, yeah, not even the cereal.

Not the cereal.

That's right.

He loves Count Chocolate, the cereal.

He's more just connected to

actual Count Chocolate.

He relates to him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you brought it up earlier.

There's also the conference room scene when

you start announcing ailments and you tell us that if we want it covered, we have to fus up and admit that it's a real disease.

And that's when you have that bit with Meredith where she says, you say inverted penis.

She said, do you mean vagina?

Because if so, I want that covered.

And then

you bring up, I thought you didn't have a vagina.

You had a hysterectomy.

And then she has that great line.

I still have a vagina.

I think I improvised.

I improvised that.

And this is early on we started to kind of like...

Wait, you improvised that she had a hysterectomy?

Did you improvise that?

Because that was his that pays off later in another episode.

No, no, no, no, no.

That's that that was in there, the hysterectomy, but I, that, the line that I thought you didn't have a vagina.

Okay.

That sounds like you.

Isabel has been wanting to watch The Office Rain, and I haven't let her yet, but now like all of her friends have seen it in fifth grade.

And so I let her watch this episode with me.

Fifth grade?

Her friends have been familiar with that.

Her friends, oh my God, they're obsessed.

Yeah, that's when it starts now.

That's when it starts.

Fifth grade.

Fifth grade.

But fifth grade is young.

Fifth grade is young.

And so Isabel hasn't seen The Office.

And I didn't have her watch it because I didn't think it was age appropriate.

And also, I just need to be mom, you know?

But she's getting more curious now.

And so she loves the bloopers.

So we've watched the bloopers because they were on YouTube.

And then I was re-watching this episode and she wanted to watch it so I let her watch it with me and it's so her her introduction to the office is healthcare oh my goodness and

so anal fissures that's it that's it okay so that that scene came up and she was like wait mom that's not a real thing is it what is that and I was like oh god

it is a real thing and then she's like but if you ride on the New York if you ride on the New York subway they have ads up for anal fish there you go read all about them well Isabel turned to me and goes does Brian have anal fissures?

I'm like, no, no.

Brian doesn't.

Brian does not.

Kevin does.

Kevin does.

And anyway, it was just sort of funny to watch the episode with her.

Well, this is a little bit off the topic of health care, but a little on the topic of just how we're friends in real life.

People ask that all the time.

We're friends in real life, right, Rain?

Rain?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, we are, Jenna.

Okay, we've gone to lunch.

We text.

Jenna, do you need one another do you need affirming can i get this in writing affirming no okay no that we're all friends in real life and that we shared so much of our lives uh doing this show for so long i remember that um your wife holiday was pregnant with your son when we were shooting the pilot yes

And then

I remember how she was born during an episode, but Ray and I couldn't remember which episode it was we were shooting.

So

Walter was born during the Hot Girl Purse Girl episode.

Okay.

Right.

So they shot me out the first two days.

They just were like, oh, we'll just shoot all rain scenes on Monday and Tuesday.

And then sure enough, late Tuesday night, Walter was born and it was horrific, ugly, difficult birth.

And

we were in the hospital emergency room and all that kind of stuff.

You can read about that in my book, The Bassoon King.

Did you read about it in your book?

Available.

Now,

no, I wasn't talking to you two.

I was talking to all the listeners.

Listeners, if you want the full story, go to read about it in the Bassoon King.

The Bassoon King.

Yes.

It's a very good book.

So that was kind of crazy.

And then I had a couple days off.

And I don't know if you can see it.

But we shot this.

We shot out of order.

Yeah.

So because

Hot Girl is the last episode that airs for season one, but it was, we shot it in the middle.

Healthcare was actually the last episode that we shot.

And you had a little tiny Walter while you were shooting this episode.

Yeah.

And I remember you had to come back to work Monday.

You only had one

five days off after he was.

Yeah, we spent the whole weekend in the hospital.

We were, my wife was in the hospital for like four or five days.

So we went home from the hospital maybe Sunday night or even that Monday morning.

And I came to work on Monday.

She came to work.

Oh, my God.

And I remember being worried.

I remember just thinking, just being concerned.

And hope that you guys are okay.

Yeah.

Just emotionally with them.

Yeah, everything worked out great.

She's great.

Walter's great.

All aces.

It's all aces.

I remember the first time I met your wife was on when we were filming the pilot.

And I remember how you introduced me to her.

I'll never forget it.

You said,

this is my wife, carrier of my seed.

That's such a Dwight thing to say.

And we were like, oh, nice to meet you.

And she was like, oh, hi, I'm Holly.

Oh, great.

The line blurs.

Yeah, it definitely blurs between me and Dwight.

And I think the line blurs between all of us and our characters.

Oh, yeah.

Some regard.

For sure.

Rain, thank you so much for talking with us on our podcast.

Hey, this was great.

I love the healthcare episode.

And

if you'll invite me back, I'll come into the studio and we can sit down and have high fives and iced tea.

Yes.

Let's do that.

Let's do that.

And you guys, we have to all check out Rain's new podcast, Metaphysical Milkshake.

Yep.

And Rain, that is on what, where do we find that?

It's on the Luminary.

Luminary.

Download the Luminary app and it'll be right on that Luminary app.

Well, I can't wait to listen, Rain.

I love you so much.

Thank you.

We love you.

I love you guys and miss you.

I'm so happy you're doing this podcast and that fans are just going to love it.

All right.

All right, Rain.

Okay, come back.

Okay, we love you.

Bye.

Okay.

See you soon.

Bye.

Thanks, guys.

Why is it every time we talk to someone from the show, I want to start to cry?

Like, I'm like tearing up a little.

I don't know.

I think it's just that those relationships are so fundamental to us.

Yes.

They are like family.

And it doesn't, it's a crew member.

It's a cast member.

It doesn't matter.

It's just such a special chapter in our lives.

And just hearing Rain's voice and him laughing at you and I being chatty, it just brought me straight back.

Rain, thank you so much for coming on.

That just, that just made my day.

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Angela, I want to talk about something that was one of our other most popular questions.

And it came from a fan and it's something I was wondering about as well.

When I watch this episode, it has to do with the accounting department.

So this is for you.

Okay.

Paige O'Murphy

asked, I love how you get to see the start of the dynamic between the accounting department and healthcare.

And this is when you're leaving the conference room

and you say, you let him walk all over you.

And I'm like, did you talk to him?

Did you talk to him?

What was that?

I'm like, it's pathetic.

You let him walk all over you.

And then Kevin's like, what are you guys talking about?

And I'm like, nothing, Kevin.

Okay.

So her question is, how much of that was you guys improvising and how much was written?

This is to me like the quintessential accounting department dynamic.

Yes, this is on my note card because to me, this really defined our corner this moment.

Yeah, so let's watch it and then I want to hear.

I want to hear the real story.

Oh, god.

This is not good.

That's ridiculous.

Did you talk to him?

What was that?

You let him walk all over you.

It's just pathetic.

What are you guys talking about?

Nothing, Kevin.

There it is.

There There it is.

Okay, so

we improvised that.

And here's the thing that I learned really quickly on this show.

And I learned it from our B camera operator, Matt Zone.

Okay.

Matt was like, Ange, if you guys have bits, make them quick and they have a chance of getting in the show.

And so we had this moment where we were all walking back to our desks.

And

Oscar and I kind of improvised this moment where I'm like, you know, did you talk to him?

And he's like, what was that?

And then we kind of just had this chit chat on the way.

And our B camera operator got it.

And he was like, guys if you tighten that up it's going to make it it'll make it in i think if you tighten it up so we did we had this back and forth and then of course like i had no idea that brian was already walking up behind us and so he was like what are you talking about so i was just like nothing kevin and it just sort of it just sort of crystallized that you know like oscar and i have this like weird sort of like office like dysfunctional marriage in a way yeah you know yeah and that kevin is like our child that we're like just stay out of it leave him out of it

um and it was just so fun that it made it in for us.

That was really fun.

How did that dynamic come together?

Because I know you guys would have to get stuck in the background.

We've established that, but for real, you did.

And I know you guys are all comedic and broad performers.

Well, Oscar and I had done a show together.

You know, we met well before the office.

I've talked about this before.

We had done a sketch show together called Hot Towel and we had known each other a long time.

We had done the groundlings together.

And I think we just naturally fell into step with one another.

I knew my character was always annoyed.

That's like, that was like a

my baseline is I was always annoyed.

And then just the way that Brian did Kevin, he seemed a little bit like the idiot.

Yeah.

He was, yeah.

So pretty much if I had anyone I could go to about something, it was Oscar.

And I was always annoyed and I was always going to him and he never had the answers I wanted.

And then I just didn't want to even talk to Kevin.

So that just sort of like came about naturally, I think.

And Oscar and I just picked up on all those cues.

Well, I love that Greg and the directors gave our camera operators the license to pick up moments that they hadn't even been directed to pick up.

Yeah.

Like they would keep one eye open on everything that was happening in the background.

And especially Matt, his job was to catch reactions and to catch these little moments that were happening off of the main action.

And Matt went on to direct episodes in later seasons.

Yes, he did.

And our director of this episode, episode, Ken Whittingham, was so great about letting us have that creative opportunity.

So when he saw us do that as we walked away, he was like, yeah, yeah, keep doing that.

And so he encouraged us.

And then, you know, we used to joke that we would have just kept going and going.

And so I'd be like, I'd have to say, I would say all the time to Brian and Oscar, it's not.

It's not our show, guys.

It's not our show.

It's not our show.

And then we had this whole like running bit that we did for years that there was an actual spin-off called Los Los Acantadores, Oscar, and Jala, y Kebin.

And it lived on Telemundo.

That was our spin-off.

Angela, that is actually a really good idea for a spin-off.

Just the accountants.

The accountants.

And Creed.

And Creed.

The accountants and Creed.

The accountant.

Well, I just think Creed has to work in every office.

Yes.

Somehow, right?

Yes.

Like, he's always there.

I actually would like Creed to be in every

phone number.

I need to call someone.

Who are you calling?

I don't know.

I think this is gold.

I actually would like Creed to just show up in every project I have for the rest of my life.

Also, he texted me this morning and he really wants to come on the show.

Well, he's coming on the show.

Yeah, that's happening.

I know exactly what episode, too.

Oh, you've got it all figured out.

Yeah, he needs to come on for the Halloween episode, which is the first episode that he speaks.

No, Jenna, that is not the first episode that he speaks in.

What?

Yeah.

Lady, look at my note card.

He has a few lines in this episode of healthcare.

What?

Creed does not speak in healthcare.

Yes, he does.

Oh, he does not.

Lady, you have to listen.

Okay, so you know the scene when Michael calls the Lackawanna

coal mine?

Yes.

For, you know, he's calling because he's like, hey, is there some kind of ride there?

And there's a voice that's like, well, you know, it's an industrial elevator.

It goes 300 feet into the ground.

Really slowly.

And Michael's like, what is there?

A laser tag down there?

And he's like, nope.

Remember that guy?

Yeah.

It's Creed.

What?

Yes.

The voice of the coal miner guy is Creed.

Yeah.

No way.

Well, this is.

Between the two of us, I'm sure someone out there caught this, but I was watching this episode with my daughter and she was like, mommy, that voice sounds familiar.

And I was like, it does.

The voice of the man that works at the coal mine sounded familiar to us.

And I was like, oh my gosh, it's Creed.

It's Creed.

And I texted Creed and he said, yeah, I was so excited.

He said that Ken Kwapis, who was a friend of his, who was our director,

he said, you know, Creed, why don't you read this?

And Creed did, and they were really happy with it.

And he really felt like that helped him sort of down the line for Halloween because they already thought he was funny.

And he is so funny.

He's so funny.

And his timing is perfect.

Perfect.

Yes.

But I want you to know, I said, Creed, oh my gosh.

So that was your first speaking part on the office was as that coal miner guy.

Yeah.

And he goes, no.

What?

I know.

What?

I know.

Three.

I know.

I know.

You don't know this.

And I'm bouncing in my chair because you don't know this.

Okay.

The actual first time that Creed ever spoke was in Diversity Day.

What?

Yes.

So

at the time, they needed some banter.

And our first AD did not realize that Creed wasn't a series regular and didn't have a contract.

That he was just a background player.

Just a background.

You're literally like.

that the contract for background player is you are not allowed to speak.

If you speak, there's a big bump in pay.

And they have to pay you.

Yeah.

Creed said the AD said to him, Can you fill in some banter with Phyllis?

And Creed was like, You know me, Ange.

I'm not shy.

That's what he said.

So he has this banter with Phyllis, and it made it in the episode.

And then they realized they wanted to use it, but Creed wasn't officially under contract.

So then they paid him.

And that is actually his first line.

Well, my mind is blown.

Your mind is blown because Creed actually had an improv line in Diversity Day that made it in the show.

And that is the first time he he spoke.

The second time he spoke was the elevator shaft operator guy on the phone with Michael.

And then Halloween, as we will get to, is his big, big moment.

Yes.

Oh, that is some good stuff.

That was a good note card, lady.

Very good note card.

Okay, Angela.

Well, I have trivia.

Mm-hmm.

I have trivia.

Why are you looking at me like that?

I don't know.

I have trivia.

I'm feeling very smug with my

creed trivia.

Well, it was really good.

All right.

Here's mine.

You know, the scene when Michael goes to the the travel agent where he wants to try to get us the all-expense paid trip to Atlantic City?

Yeah.

Where he says the thing about like, isn't there like bus that takes you there and then you get all your meals comped?

Everything's free.

Everything's free.

And the travel agent is like, yeah, I don't, I don't really know anything about that.

You might want to just contact the casino.

The casino directly.

Do you know who played the travel agent?

Is it his friend from college, Charlie Hartsock?

Damn it.

Angela.

I remember that.

I remember Steve was really excited because his friend from, you know, like his good friend was going to be on set that day.

But you weren't there that day.

I wasn't, Jenna, but Steve is my friend and he shared with me.

Man.

Uh-huh.

All right.

Well, what else have you got?

You got more note cards over there.

You know what, Jenna, when I was watching this, I was like, oh my gosh, this really, this episode in particular, I felt like...

We really saw that peep shot.

And I know we're going to talk about it.

The spy shot, Angela?

I call it the peep shot.

Well, hey, please don't call it that to anyone else.

It's called the spy shot.

Well, you just called it.

The spying.

We're not peeping.

Excuse me.

You call the background actors lurkers.

So we're lurking and we're peeping.

Okay.

But it's just that shot where you go through the blinds, right?

Yeah.

And we saw that a lot in this episode because Michael is hiding.

He is hiding in his office.

And one of my favorite ones, when you're being sassy, the peep.

Oh my gosh.

The Pam sass.

It's the peep and a Pam sass.

So we're looking through the blinds and Michael is just playing with his truck.

He's rolling the truck back and forth.

He's claiming that there's many calls coming up.

Yeah, busy, busy, busy, busy.

And Pam goes, still no one calling.

Yeah.

Still no one calling.

It's matter of fact.

You find matter of factness to be sassy.

No, I think there's a little bit of sass on it.

But yeah, so I thought, I love that you got to see.

how we spy on people through the camera, that we get to see these moments.

They don't know that we're seeing.

Yeah.

And you'll see it over and over.

But when I watched the BBC version of this show and then when I watched our version,

those were the only shows doing that at this time.

We were really trying to employ what you would do on an actual documentary where you want to like catch people when they're not aware they're being filmed.

And we behave differently when we are being, know we're being filmed or not.

And so that was, we would use the spy shot when we needed to catch people.

Or the peep shot.

Okay.

Peep shot, as Angela.

Moving on.

Moving on.

Next question.

Two observations about John in this episode.

The first one has to do with his hair.

John has a full-on bowl haircut in this.

What?

Yes.

Sam, can you pull up a picture of John in this to show Jenna?

I grew up in a small town, and some of these farm boys, they would just put a bowl on their head and cut their hair around it.

What was that about?

I don't know.

Look at that.

Oh, look at that.

Oh, it's 14 minutes and 19 seconds.

That's full bowl.

Full bowl.

Okay.

And then the other thing I notice about John is that John says D White.

He does say D.

White.

He says D.

White.

I say

Dwight.

I say Dwight.

He said, well, he doesn't say D-White.

He says DeWhite.

DeWhite.

Okay.

DeWhite.

John says D.

White.

D-White.

De-White.

De-White.

Oh, my God.

John says De-White.

And I say Dwight.

I say Dwight.

Dwight.

I absolutely love it now because it just makes me miss John.

And every time I hear him say, Don't worry, Dwight, it just makes me smile.

So there are my two John observations.

I have an observation about Jim

in this episode, which is,

and actually, a fan pointed this out as well.

I had noticed it, but I will give some props to the other person who noticed it.

Except I don't have their name written down.

I'm sorry.

Person out there, you know who you are.

Yeah.

Which is that all of this could have been avoided if Jim had just taken 15 minutes and picked a plan.

No, I know.

No, the way he was asked in the beginning of the episode.

Yes.

I mean, he ends up having this fun, playful day with Pam.

But if we're going to get real here, it cost him and everyone else in the office decent health care.

On the other hand, in his defense, I will say the task was to slash the health care.

So I'm not sure he could have done much better than Dwight, but maybe he could have.

Does that make him kind of not as charming?

I don't know.

Well, I think what happens is an argument.

I think what happens in this show is that Michael passes the buck to Jim and Jim passes it to Dwight and it happens over and over.

It does.

It does.

And Jim is just like, listen, I don't get paid enough to do this.

Yeah, well, and I think the argument really can be made that Jim knew it was inevitable.

Like what we ended up with is what we were going to end up with.

Although.

The other argument can be made that Dwight made it worse than it needed to be.

Okay, I have another note card.

Okay.

Okay.

Here it is.

So one of the things I love about our props department is just all the little details in the back.

And a great example of this is all of the motivational posters that you see around Dunder Mifflin.

There's so many.

They're brilliant.

They're brilliant.

I like to think that like...

Michael Scott really thinks they're going to get everyone to like feel affirmed in their day.

So, you know, there's one behind you in reception that just says teamwork.

Yep.

And it's a bunch of people.

They've jumped out of a plane and they're all locking arms.

Teamwork.

Teamwork.

These are all over the office.

So at 15 minutes, 50 seconds around there, it flashes to the clock on the wall.

And under the clock, you just see it says self-affirmations, self-esteem.

And then you can't see what else it says.

But I'm like, what is under the clock?

What are all these self-affirmations?

The detail work in our set design was incredible.

And that was Michael Gallenberg.

He was our set designer.

He was so amazing.

And so many details.

And then the props department would, anytime there was some sheet of paper that we had to look at as a prop, it was a fully formed idea.

You know, if there was a memo, they wrote out like a whole real fake memo.

And they were

stationary.

There's always funny little jokes hidden in them.

And also all around the office, if you're in the break room, the menus, the magnets on the fridge, they're all from Scranton.

Yeah.

They reached out to local businesses in Scranton and they all sent their items and they're all throughout our office.

Also, of course, Froggy 95.5.

Yes.

Local Scranton Radio.

That's what should be your playlist.

You should have just listened to some Froggy.

I really should have.

All right.

This episode ends with Michael coming out of his office.

He's successfully hidden in his office until 5 p.m., after 5 p.m.

And the entire office is waiting to confront him both about the horrible health care plan that Dwight picked and to finally find out, please, what is the surprise?

Because he's come in attempting to surprise us with ice cream sandwiches.

Oh, he about hit me in the head with an ice cream sandwich.

I mean, Steve actually, like, like the look on his face after that take, I was, he was like, Ann, how close did that come?

I was like, Steve, you pretty much almost hit me in the head with it.

And he also announced so proudly, Operation Surprise.

Yes.

And so we're like, okay, what is it?

What is it?

And it's all he could come up with in his whole day was ice cream sandwiches.

So now it's the end.

And then he says that's not the surprise.

It's surprising, but it is not the surprise.

So at the end of the episode, you confront him.

I do.

I love it.

I loved being the person that confronted him because Steve is so funny.

And he turned to me and he's like, Yes, Angela.

Thank you for reminding me.

So you ask him point blank, what is the surprise, Michael?

And then he says, the surprise is.

And then he short circuits.

He just stops talking.

He just stops talking and it just starts to have like upper lip sweat.

Yeah.

And we all are just looking at him.

It is so awkward.

It's so awkward.

And I remember when we did it, like timing it out to that moment where we start to like slowly leave each person.

Yes.

And how long that felt.

Yes.

So long.

It really did as we were standing there.

And they, they had choreographed the order in which we would leave.

And of course, we did many takes.

So we would have to come back and reset.

And I remember thinking, are we going to leave this?

This is a giant pause with no dialogue.

Is this going to be able to stand?

Because that was not something you did on television shows.

In fact, on television shows, especially comedies, it was pretty traditional to have like set up, set up, joke, set up, set up, joke.

And this was like a whole different rhythm.

And so, yeah, I remember this.

And I remember he just had to stand there.

Oh, it was so awkward.

And then when you watch it, it's so like cringy, cringy, but it's perfect.

It's perfect.

It's so good.

And I, there's so many times, like when I watch episodes of the office, where I'm like, how does Michael come back from that?

Like, I say that to myself, like, how does he come back the next day?

We all knew there was no surprise.

We all knew, but man, we made him suffer through that pause.

And then, best last line ever.

After that suffering silence, Rain says, Oh,

Jan wants you to call her.

So good.

So good.

Oh, that's that's healthcare, guys.

That is healthcare.

Thank you so much, Rain Wilson, for calling in.

And it was just so great to hear your voice.

And guys, if we missed anything, remember, you can write us at officeladies at earwolf.com and just

put the episode name in the subject line so that we can easily sort through things.

Put the episode in the subject line, or Jen is going to be ticked off.

I won't be ticked off.

You're going to get some Pam sass.

You're going to get some Pam sass.

You might get Pam sass.

Oh, I'm just going to go listen to the sounds of Scranton.

I'll be right back.

I'll see you guys next week.

See you next week when we do the Alliance.

The Alliance.

Oh, there's so much good stuff in that one.

Not to be missed.

Not to be missed.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.

Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.

Our producer is Cody Fisher.

Our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer.

And our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.

Remember, you can listen to ad-free versions of Office Ladies on Stitcher Premium.

For a free month of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.

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