Diversity Day

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Speaker 1 I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on the office together and we're best friends.
And now we're doing the Ultimate Office Rewatch podcast just for you.

Speaker 1 Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're the office ladies.

Speaker 1 Hello, everyone. This is Jenna Fisher.
And this is Angela Kinsey. And today you're listening to Office Ladies and we will be breaking down Diversity Day.
It's a good one. Season one, episode two.

Speaker 1 This was written by BJ Novak and directed by Ken Kwapis. It was, this was the moment for me I was like, we have a hit.
This is great stuff. Yeah, this was,

Speaker 1 oh my gosh, it's happening to me again. What's happening? I have so many things in my head to talk about this episode.

Speaker 1 It's like the little cards in my head are filtering and I don't know which one to pick first. Oh, like a Rolodex? Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.
That's what's happening.

Speaker 1 And then I freeze up. Then you freeze up and you kind of look like Durin headlights when I look at you.
Yeah, I just stopped talking. I sort of shut down like a computer screen.
You know what?

Speaker 1 The same thing happens to me at a buffet. I love a buffet.
I can't decide. Too many choices.
Too many choices. I'm like, do I want pancakes or do I want like the crab legs or their sushi?

Speaker 1 What buffet has crab legs and pancakes? Like, go to a buffet in Vegas.

Speaker 1 I love a Vegas buffet. Touche.
Touche. Okay, let's do it.
All right. I'm going to start with a synopsis.
You love it. That seems good.
All right.

Speaker 1 In the episode, Diversity Day, the staff of Dunder Mifflin must complete a diversity training seminar due to some complaints to corporate.

Speaker 1 But manager Michael Scott feels the training was insufficient and subjects the staff to his own training. Yes.
That's it in a nutshell. That's it, folks.

Speaker 1 And my gosh, I mean, if I can't, I just, when I re-watched it, like, it was so awkward. It's so awkward.
This is like Michael Scott at his

Speaker 1 most cringy this first season, I feel like. Yeah, they really leaned in.
They leaned in. Okay, Jenna, go.
All right.

Speaker 1 Shall I start with some fast facts? I am waiting. I can't wait to see what you got.
I see. All right.

Speaker 1 So, my first fast fact is that this was the first totally original script of the American version of The Office because we talked about in the pilot that this was based on a British television show of the same name.

Speaker 1 And the pilot episode was an adaptation of their script.

Speaker 1 This was not.

Speaker 1 After the pilot episode of our show, we started writing original storylines for our version of the show. That's right.
Unique to the American, The Office. That's right.

Speaker 1 And the writers referred to this episode as the pilot after the pilot. Ooh, that's good little insight, guys.
That's a little insight. The pilot after the pilot.

Speaker 1 Because they felt like this was establishing what is the American version going to be like. Oh, wow.
Diversity. Boy.

Speaker 1 That's the pilot.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I think when we think about this episode, Angela, we both talked about this.
It is absolutely brilliant. It's brilliant.
People love it.

Speaker 1 And in re-watching it after all these years, I couldn't believe how remarkably it held up. Yeah.
I mean, it's just a stunning piece of comedy, in my opinion. And it was written by B.J.

Speaker 1 Novak, who plays Ryan the Temp on the show. Who also, you guys, is like really smart.
He is one of the smartest people I know.

Speaker 1 One time him and Mindy were having a conversation, like and I walked up and I was just like, hey, and they were talking about sort of like some kind of advanced economics kind of conversation.

Speaker 1 And I was just like,

Speaker 1 okay, bye.

Speaker 1 I think it's why Mindy and BJ became best friends was because they are just two of the smartest people in the world. Or they're the only people they can talk to.

Speaker 1 Well, I just knew in that moment I had nothing to add to their conversation. And I just did the slow fade because I was like, wow, these are two really smart people.

Speaker 1 Well, let me lay something on you about BJ Novak in this episode. He was 25 years old when he wrote it.
Shut the front door. What were you doing when you were 25 years old?

Speaker 1 I'll tell you what I wasn't doing. I wasn't writing a brilliant piece of television comedy.
I was an operator at 1-800 Dentist.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think I was working in a medical office as a receptionist.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Transcribing medical documents.
Well, that's it. Which is interesting work, by the way.
Ew, it sounds a little gross. Well, it was a psychological

Speaker 1 office. So what these psychologists did was if you were applying for an executive position at an important company, you had to go through a psychological evaluation.

Speaker 1 And then these psychologists would determine whether or not they could recommend you for the job or not. And you wrote it all down? I transcribed all of the sessions, all of the therapy sessions

Speaker 1 with the executives. Chenna, this sounds like a HBO series.
Oh, my God. You should pitch that.
Okay, sorry, we're getting off topic.

Speaker 1 Well, I want to say in my time doing it, there was only one person who was not recommended. And it was because they felt he had some violent tendencies.
Okay, well, this is taking a turn.

Speaker 1 But can you imagine how suspenseful it was for me to be typing out that information? I was like, what are they? 25-year-old Jenna was like,

Speaker 1 yeah, well, that's what I was doing when I was 25. When BJ Novak was 25 years old, he was writing this television show.
And this was his first job writing for a television show. I know.

Speaker 1 And his first script was Diversity Day. What the hell is going on? BJ, just settle down on being such an achiever, okay? Can you just relax?

Speaker 1 I had to reach out to BJ because I wanted to ask him, BJ, what was it like? Because here we had the British version of the show that was so acclaimed.

Speaker 1 And you are now tasked with writing the first original episode. The Pilot After the Pilot.
The Pilot After the Pilot.

Speaker 1 He explained the original writing staff for the office was Greg Daniels, the executive producer, showrunner, Paul Lieberstein, Mindy Kaling, Mike Scherr, and B.J. Novak.
What a room, by the way.

Speaker 1 What a room. I know.
And then they had Larry Wilmore and Lester Lewis who were consulting. This room full of writers broke down the plots and storylines of the five remaining episodes of season one.

Speaker 1 And they did this as a group.

Speaker 1 They created outlines for each of these episodes. And then a different writer got assigned a different outline and he got assigned the Diversity Day.

Speaker 1 Okay, so wait, I just want to make sure I understand. So they would take storylines and outlines and break them down as a group.
Yes. And then you would get assigned which storyline was yours.
Yes.

Speaker 1 And then you had to fill in the dialogue and different story points. And, you know, you, you do a good amount of writing on your episode, but the idea for the episode comes from the group collector.

Speaker 1 From the room. Okay.
Right. And also at that time, they didn't know what order they were going to air.
So he did not have the pressure. Yes.
Because that's writing with the first one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that would be, that would be so much pressure. That's, I would freeze up.
And I remember that.

Speaker 1 I remember that when we came back after getting picked up and we were going to shoot these five additional episodes, we had five completed scripts.

Speaker 1 And then they decided which one they were going to shoot. They didn't come out weekly.
They did it collectively before we started the season.

Speaker 1 Which

Speaker 1 I guess that takes some of the pressure off. It would.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I have another fast fact. All right.
You do your fast facts because I've got some delicious note cards waiting for you. All right.
Some Kinsey tidbits over here. I enjoy digesting your note cards.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Digest this first, though.
What? People, a lot of people want to know, where did the idea for this episode come from?

Speaker 1 This episode is based on the real life experience of our writer's assistant, Tom.

Speaker 1 So when they were in that writer's room, they throw out ideas for episodes. And Tom told this story about how when he was in college, he took a class.

Speaker 1 And in the class, they did this exercise where they had to put note cards on their heads that said different ethnicities and then they had to go around and regard one another as that ethnicity

Speaker 1 using the stereotype

Speaker 1 where did he go to school oh my gosh I don't know

Speaker 1 but that happened okay so let that sink in yeah that happened to people that happened well here's the thing I feel like about the show and listen you guys watch it you know there's a lot that happens that you're like oh yeah that something like that kind of happened at my job yeah I mean mean, we had, I worked, when I worked at 1800 Dentists, we had to go to these human resource, like, like resources meetings, and they would act out skits for us about inappropriate behavior.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what? Remember, we used to have to sit through those sexual harassment seminars on the office. Yeah.
The whole casting crew would gather in the warehouse, and once a year, we had to.

Speaker 1 NBC made us do it. Yeah, made us do sexual harassment training.
And then we signed papers saying we'd all behave appropriately. Correct.
But do you remember what happened like in season four or five?

Speaker 1 The video package that they showed us was our show. Was what not to do.
Yes, with clips from the office. Yeah.

Speaker 1 We were sitting there watching clips of our show as examples of ways not to behave in a workplace.

Speaker 1 I've had actually a lot of people tell me that, that it comes up in different ways in their either college or work that our show is like what not to do.

Speaker 1 All right, I've got one more fast fact, and I also have a fan question. Well, okay, good, because then I have some Kinsey tidbits.
Very good.

Speaker 1 What would you like first, the fast fact or the fan question? Jenna, what is happening? Are you going out of order? Who are you? You're right. What am I saying?

Speaker 1 I want the fast facts. Of course.
Finish fast facts. And then go to fan questions.
I'm sorry. I'm feeling very loosey-goosey today, obviously.
All right.

Speaker 1 Final fast fact.

Speaker 1 In this episode, we introduce two new characters. Yes, we do.
Toby Flenderson and Kelly Kapoor, played by two more members of our writing staff, Paul Lieberstein and Mindy Kaling.

Speaker 1 Yes, I do have to say, I love the name Toby Flinderson.

Speaker 1 I love when a character's name sort of describes the character. But like the name Toby Flinderson, like when you see Paul on screen as Toby, you're like, oh, of course that's Toby Flenderson.

Speaker 1 That's who that is. Absolutely perfect.
A lot of people ask why were so many writers, actors on the show? And that was Greg Daniels.

Speaker 1 Greg believed that it would be a good idea for writers to have the experience of acting because it would give them a deeper appreciation of what an actor does, which I have to say is so brilliant.

Speaker 1 And I think

Speaker 1 there are a lot of directors that I know go take acting classes just so they can better speak to actors and understand actors.

Speaker 1 And it completely worked on our show that the writers were immersed with us because they really got to not just understand our jobs, but they got to see us being our characters firsthand.

Speaker 1 They got to see our little improvisations that they would never see if they were just stuck up in the writer's room. And all of that ended up becoming a part of the show.
I think it was so great.

Speaker 1 It really made us a cohesive show between the two departments, sort of the writers, the actors, this creative partnership.

Speaker 1 It always felt like a partnership to me and made me feel safe, like I could try things, you know.

Speaker 1 But, you know, BJ and Mindy were really great performers. They were crossovers, but Paul was not a performer.
Paul had only just been a writer.

Speaker 1 So I know this was like a huge sort of like step out of his comfort zone. And I think he thought it was going to be just this one little line in this episode.
Right.

Speaker 1 Well, Jenna texted him this morning. I was like, Paul, tell us the dish on how you became Toby.
And he just said, Greg kind of made me do it.

Speaker 1 He said he remembered walking in one day and it had been decided that he was going to play this role of Toby.

Speaker 1 And he really thought it was just going to be this one line. Right.
He didn't think he was going to be a series regular. No, he did not think it was going to grow into what it was.

Speaker 1 But Kevin Riley, who was the head of NBC at the time, saw this episode. He loved it.
He loved the dynamic between Michael Scott and Toby Flenderson. And he said, I want more of that.
I want more Toby.

Speaker 1 And so then Paul officially became an actor on the show. Who was not a performer and who is kind of a quiet person in real life, all of a sudden became a full-time actor and writer.

Speaker 1 I think something we have to talk about too is the transformation of Kelly Kapoor. A lot of fans wrote in asking about this and I'm sure you've got a note card about it, Anne.

Speaker 1 I do. First of all, all my note cards today are green and Jenna has already said they're whorish, but whatever, Jenna.
So I have a note card that's just written. Kelly's outfit.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Exclamation point, because this is hilarious. Anyone that knows Mindy knows that after this episode, she was like, yeah, I'm not going to dress like that.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Because she had on on this like sort of paisley blouse and those pants that went all the way up to her neck I know and her hair up in like an updo and it was just so funny very fussy very fussy and sort of like just like buttoned up and right after like this episode I feel like she was like yeah I'm gonna come in for a real wardrobe fitting and we're gonna change up the way Kelly Kapoor looks I think when she realized same as Paul that this was gonna be more than just a one-off, that she would be appearing regularly on the show, not only did her wardrobe change, but the whole conceit of her character changed.

Speaker 1 And she started writing herself more into the character, the love of Beyoncé,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 the clothes, and the fashion show, fashion show, fashion show. Show at lunch.
And that's all Mindy. The romance with BJ.
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 Correct. All of those elements sort of weaved their way into the show.
But it is true in this first incarnation of Kelly Kapoor, she is very different. Not the Kelly we eventually learned to love.

Speaker 1 And I love the Kelly she became, though, because she was so fun and just added so much, like, sort of like just sunshine to like whatever scene she was in.

Speaker 1 I don't know how to say it, but like there was always, she was just all so bubbly and everything, and everyone else was so drab. So I thought she added much needed energy.
She added literal color.

Speaker 1 Yeah. She was the only person who dressed literally colorfully.

Speaker 1 So do you want my fan question? Do I? Okay.

Speaker 1 Heather from Twitter asked. Hi, Heather.
Hi, Heather. Heather asked,

Speaker 1 since it was only the second episode, what was the atmosphere on set-like filming?

Speaker 1 And I thought that was a really good question because

Speaker 1 we shot Diversity Day about six months after we shot the pilot. We took this really long break because we were waiting to find out if we were going to get picked up or not.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it was so thrilling to be reunited again. I remember when we were watching Diversity Day, people have asked me, when did you feel like you had a hit?

Speaker 1 And I said, it's the moment we were all in the room and we all had those note cards taped to our foreheads. And I was just looking around at all of us.

Speaker 1 And Steve was being Michael and he was being so hilarious. And I thought, oh my God, if any, if we can just get anyone to watch this show, we're going to be a hit.
If anyone sees it, it's so good.

Speaker 1 And it really was in that moment. I was like, oh, wow, this is this is lightning in a bottle.
Now, how do we get the world to watch it? Aw, I love that, Ange.

Speaker 1 Listen, should we take a break? Yeah, let's take a break. I have lots of note cards.
Well, perfect.

Speaker 1 When we come back, we will really break down Diversity Day and get into the scenes and tell you all our stories. You say diversity.
I say diversity. What? Yeah, it's just been bugging me.

Speaker 1 Diversity? Okay, let's go to our break.

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Speaker 1 And we're back. Hello.

Speaker 1 All right, so the Diversity Day episode starts with Michael explaining that today the office is having a mandatory diversity training. Yes.

Speaker 1 We also learned that today is the day that Jim is going to make his biggest sale of the year. He explains he only has to make make one phone call and it amounts to 25% of his total sales for the year.

Speaker 1 But Dwight keeps making it impossible for him to make that call. And so the first way that Dwight makes it impossible for him to make this phone call is that he must shred paper at his desk.

Speaker 1 Oh, Dwight. Which...
I always thought was funny because, you know, Pam has that industrial size shredder behind her desk.

Speaker 1 Pam has a shredder like the size of a Xerox machine behind her desk, which we never use. Never used.
Ever. I never shredded a single thing in it.
And it used to get in the way when the camera.

Speaker 1 You could move it. And it was a big argument over whether or not they could move it, like the integrity of the documentary crew.

Speaker 1 Would they have moved the industrial shredder or not? And so I remember a day we were on set and they wanted to get this shot behind my desk.

Speaker 1 And they said, if we could just move the shredder, we could get the shot you're asking for. And it was like a 30-minute argument over whether or not they could move or not move the shredder.
Right.

Speaker 1 Cause they, they didn't want to like ruin the integrity of the documentary. Yes, this was a big thing all the time.

Speaker 1 They, they decided, you know, you can't move walls, you can't move windows, you can't move furniture. They did agree you could move this one plant around.

Speaker 1 The ficus. You could move the ficus.
They clearly agreed that you could move that conference table out. and the chairs and then all of a sudden the conference table would be back.

Speaker 1 I have had the conference table. Where did they all go?

Speaker 1 I know. I have had so many people write to me like on social media be like, what happened with the conference table? It was there and then it's gone.
Where does the conference table go?

Speaker 1 And I told them, I said, you know what? I would have loved at the end of one episode.

Speaker 1 All it would take is one episode in the whole nine seasons if at the end credits, it just showed like Kevin and like

Speaker 1 Jim breaking down the conference table and Dwight and like stacking it in some storage thing and then having to go get it and put it back together. But just as the credits rolled.

Speaker 1 Yes, I would love to see them carrying the conference table down to the warehouse or something like that. Because where is it? I don't know.
There is nowhere for it to be. I don't know.
It is.

Speaker 1 That is one of the great mysteries of the show. Where is the conference table?

Speaker 1 Every time Michael was like conference room meeting, that they were like, ugh, because they knew they had to break down that table.

Speaker 1 Okay, okay. Well, do you remember that shredding scene where Rain is shredding the paper? Yes.
And he, so he's shredding paper, he's shredding paper.

Speaker 1 So then Rain notices that there's a special slot on his personal shredder for a credit card. And he kind of stopped the filming and he said, guys, I think I should shred a credit card.

Speaker 1 And we were thinking, well, okay.

Speaker 1 And he said, no, there's a special slot for it. I know.
And everyone's like, is it going to work? And so he did it. He did it.
He did it.

Speaker 1 They got him like a fake like credit card kind of thing, the props department. And he did it, but it almost broke that shredder.
It started going like

Speaker 1 I remember sitting there and thinking, is it, you know, is it? What's happening? What's happening? But he was so determined. I also think Rain is like a gadget person a little bit.

Speaker 1 So he was like, oh, there's a thing on here. I need to do it.
Yeah, I need to work this part of the machine. I need to do it.
Angela, would you like to do a card? I would, Jenna Fisher.

Speaker 1 Okay, so this card applies to the opening shot of the whole episode. There is a great establishing shot of the Homer Simpson doll.
The camera is going past Phyllis's desk and it's sitting right there.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it just makes me smile because I know that Greg Daniels wrote on The Simpsons and this was his little like nod to the first part of his career, right? Yes.

Speaker 1 And it sat there all nine years,

Speaker 1 that Simpson doll. So I love that.
That's just like kind of dorky moment. You guys know I love the things in the background.
Well, you know what he did for the main cast. I'm sorry.
I do know this.

Speaker 1 You do know. Are you saying I'm sorry because I didn't get one? Yeah.
Because you're calling me not main cast. Well, we called you supporting cast.
Is this

Speaker 1 as a gift?

Speaker 1 you guys, the rest of us didn't become series regular till Booz Cruise. That's a story for later.
But in the beginning,

Speaker 1 there were just five of us. Well, there weren't just the five of you, but you were the five that were the quote series regulars.
That's right. There were just the five series regulars.

Speaker 1 And the rest of us were just trash

Speaker 1 in the corner.

Speaker 1 No, but we had to do a lot of extra stuff. We had to do press.
We had to do press and we had to do these crazy photo shoots. And we did all this stuff as the show was launching.

Speaker 1 Listen, there is no debating. You guys were the core main cast, and the rest of us filled out the picture.

Speaker 1 And then it grew, and then the cast grew, and then we had all of these series regulars. But I'm gonna give you a little

Speaker 1 you can leave that in, Sam. I'm gonna give you a little shiitake sometimes.
All right, listen. So, as a gift, Greg had the illustrators over at The Simpsons turn us all into

Speaker 1 Simpson characters.

Speaker 1 And it was me, John, Rain, and Steve huddled around a computer. Now that I'm saying it, I realize I think B.J.
Novak was left out of this photo. Sorry, B.J.

Speaker 1 But we were Simpsonized, and he gave us these illustrations in like a frame.

Speaker 1 It's really cool. It's really cool.
It's in my living room. It's like a treasured item from the show.
Jenna is a Simpson. I have a Simpson version of me.

Speaker 1 All right. I want to talk about Pam's free sell, and so does BNG Chris on Twitter.
Well, let's hear it, BNG Chris. All right.
He asked if we were actually good at free sell.

Speaker 1 And the answer is, oh, yes, we were.

Speaker 1 You want to know why? This is one of my note cards, too. We didn't get Wi-Fi until July of 2006.

Speaker 1 And it was such a big deal on our set that a memo went around and i saved the memo it was because for to give you some context we shot this episode in 2004 yes and so it wasn't until 2006 that we got internet so for the pilot they were nothing they were literally like pieces of plastic i have to tell you something angela what my computer on the pilot was real son of a

Speaker 1 i'm so sorry main cast got real computers shut up are you serious

Speaker 1 you and john and rain had actual computers with games. No internet, but you had games for the pilot.
Yeah. Will this ever end? Will it ever end? All these things I'm learning.

Speaker 1 Well, back in accounting, guys, we had a piece of plastic that they made look like. You just had to stare at a plastic piece.
A piece of plastic that did nothing. So we passed notes.

Speaker 1 I haven't known when to tell you this because you've told the story before that our computer. And you have sat silent? I have.
I haven't known how to tell you that all along I had a real computer.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. What else is going to come out in this podcast? I don't know.
Holy crap. Well, we passed a lot of notes and I saved those two.
Oscar can draw.

Speaker 1 He's a really good drawer and he would draw me and Brian as Kevin and Angela. And I saved them all.
So that's what I'm saying. That's what you were doing while I was on my actual computer.
Whatever.

Speaker 1 The answer to that story is yes. We were very good at solitaire because it's all we had to do for like two years.
It's true.

Speaker 1 And we had on-set free-sell competitions and we would compete with the casting crew. In between scenes, the crew would sit down at a desk and they would play free sell.

Speaker 1 And Kate Flannery held the title for a very long time. She was really, very good.

Speaker 1 Phyllis was also very good. Kate is so good, though.
Yes. With the free sell, the competition was who could do it in the fewest moves.

Speaker 1 And yeah. Kate was really good.
I never made the top 10. I would also lose patience.

Speaker 1 Okay. All right.
Get going. What else you got over there, Fisher? What else are you hiding from me that you're not telling me? What other perks did you have?

Speaker 1 Well, this wasn't really a perk, but this was a little sneaky. So during this episode, off camera, there was a whole thing going on and it involved me and Phyllis.
So Phyllis and I are from St.

Speaker 1 Louis, Missouri. And during this time, the Cardinals were in the playoffs.
I remember this. They ended up in the World Series against the Boston Red Sox.

Speaker 1 And in between scenes, Phyllis and I would sneak back to my trailer and watch the Cardinals games. Yes.
And we were rooting hard for the Cardinals.

Speaker 1 And it was very difficult for us because basically everyone else on the set was from Boston. Steve, BJ, John, more people.
Everyone was rooting for the Red Sox except for me and Phyllis.

Speaker 1 And I really for the Cardinals with you. Do you remember that? You don't remember that? No.
Jita, I'm, I'm, you and I are the end of our talk. You know what?

Speaker 1 You and I are going to have a talk after this, lady.

Speaker 1 I did. You brought me onto your side.

Speaker 1 Listen, one of the things I remember so distinctly about that World Series is that at the end of work, we would stay. Yeah.
And we would all go into John's trailer and we would watch the game.

Speaker 1 Angela, if you were in John's trailer, you were rooting for Boston. Oh.
Phyllis and I watched it in my trailer. Wait, I didn't know that.
Wait, you weren't. Oh, right.
You didn't go in John. No.

Speaker 1 Oh.

Speaker 1 We were an island, Phyllis and I. We were an island.
Well, John's trailer was really fun. A lot of people were in there.

Speaker 1 Of course they were. I think I probably stopped by your trailer and was like,

Speaker 1 it was a little sad in here. And I went into the party trailer where everyone was gathered.
Well, also, Boston swept the series four to zero. So it was a particularly depressing.

Speaker 1 I mean, I remember there being snacks and like laughter.

Speaker 1 Phyllis and I were just in my trailer crying. Okay, maybe I didn't.
No big deal. Okay.
All right. We should really get back to the meat of this episode.
Oh, my God, you guys. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 We've gone on so many tangents. This is what happens when we get together.
Okay, back to Diversity Day. All right.
So Mr. Brown comes into the office to run the diversity training.

Speaker 1 And once again, played by one of the members of the writing staff. So brilliant.
Larry Wilmar. Larry Wilmar.
So smart. So funny.
He originally read the part during a table read. Yes.

Speaker 1 Just because they hadn't cast the role yet. They were going to cast the role.
They just hadn't gotten to it yet. That's right.

Speaker 1 Greg loved how he read it so much that he asked Larry to audition because this was a big part. This wasn't just one line.
So you had to audition for a role of this size.

Speaker 1 So they put him through the paces. Poor guy.
But what I loved about his delivery is it was so straight. He did it like so straight.
He put nothing on it, no spin on it. And that's why it worked.

Speaker 1 But this was not the first time that Larry Wilmore has performed. He was a writer performer.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Did you know he had a recurring role on the facts of life? No. Yeah, as a police officer.
Somebody did a deep dive on the internet. And I did.
Want to hear what else the internet told me? Yeah.

Speaker 1 He created the Bernie Mac show for which he won an Emmy, and he was a daily show correspondent. He's very funny.
And I actually emailed him and he wants to come on and chat with us. So oh, yes.

Speaker 1 I know, I know. He couldn't do it for this episode, but we're going to get Larry on.
I'm so excited. We should, because I want to get more of that story of exactly how he wound up as Mr.

Speaker 1 Brown and what it was like for him to to do those scenes with Steve. Oh, was Steve just like, he was just messing with him all day.
And he was stayed so stoic. I know.
He was great. He was amazing.

Speaker 1 I have to say this one story about Larry Wilmore. When this show was going to air, he invited the whole cast over to watch it at his house.
And I had like an apartment at that time.

Speaker 1 So like anyone that had a house, I was like, oh my God, you're like the real deal. Yes, you're an adult.
You're an adult. Well, that's something we used to do.

Speaker 1 We used to watch every week together as a cast, these viewing parties. I hosted everybody for the pilot.
It was before it aired. Greg came over with a DVD

Speaker 1 of the pilot and the cast piled into my living room. We couldn't figure out how to make it work at first.
Do you remember like your sound wasn't like the DVD wasn't working? Yeah.

Speaker 1 We were all freaking out. And we had, well, I also remember we had to like move furniture out of the way and people were on the floor.
I have a picture of that.

Speaker 1 And there's Steve Corell just sitting on my floor.

Speaker 1 He didn't get a spot on the couch, ready to watch the pilot. I have one just like that.
And I remember telling everyone, okay, so my building doesn't have parking.

Speaker 1 So here I am telling the cast, you have to street park. Also, I'm the unit way in the back.
It says 824, but I'm 824 and a half.

Speaker 1 And everyone came. It was like so sweet.
And Paul Feig used to host a lot. Oh my gosh.
And Paul and Lori Feig, they would put out a fantastic little buffet. They would.
They are great hosts.

Speaker 1 But yes, we used to watch the episodes together as a cast, which is something we did really for years. For years.
Should we take a break? Yes, I think we take a break.

Speaker 1 And when we come back, Jenna, I have a question about something that's in the background. You know how I love things in the background.
I've really been the background spotter of this podcast. I have.

Speaker 1 You guys

Speaker 1 will hear. As you will hear, because we've done a few of these.
Jenna knows I love things in the background.

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Speaker 1 and use code office ladies at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them.
Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. The holidays are coming up.

Speaker 1 That means a lot of people travel over the holidays, right? A lot. I mean, Thanksgiving is the most traveled holiday in the United States, I believe.
I believe that. I believe that is true.
Yes. Okay.

Speaker 1 Well, how about this idea? While you're away, why don't you host your place on Airbnb and make some moolah? And then also, you're going to have some money for holiday shopping. How about that?

Speaker 1 I like how you transitioned that into shopping, lady.

Speaker 1 Well, here is who this is a perfect fit for.

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Speaker 1 And we're back. Hello, everyone.
Angela, give it to us. What's your observation? Well, I have two.

Speaker 1 First of all, at six minutes around 46 seconds, I can make out the yellow post-it note sprinkles invite that I drew on the partition in Kevin's desk. Really? Yes.
We talked about this in the pilot.

Speaker 1 It's a little yellow post-it note, and I can just see the side of it. And it just made me happy because it was there all nine years, as you know, all nine seasons.

Speaker 1 And then Brian gave it to to me and i have it and i love it but i can spot it and that just made me happy so there you go

Speaker 1 sprinkles post-it note and here's the second thing i observed at around eight minutes 30 seconds there is a cartoon taped to michael's door oh with like a notepad with like some writing on it okay

Speaker 1 that's all i got what

Speaker 1 what is the cartoon i don't know i did take a picture of my tv and i zoomed in as big as i could i i don't know what it is That's it. That's it.

Speaker 1 Your observation is that there is a cartoon on Michael's door. The end.
Okay, well, the way you're looking at me is a little judgy. They're not all going to pay me.

Speaker 1 I mean, I thought you were going to tell me what it was or how it got there, but no. I don't know.
But I bet someone else is looking at it and being like, Angela, I saw that too. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I don't know what it's about. Thank you so much for that one.
Moving on. I need to talk about a scene.
Okay. That contains one of my favorite lines of all time from the show.

Speaker 1 I know it because it's one of mine. I know it.
When Steve does his own diversity training,

Speaker 1 he makes a video. Yes.

Speaker 1 And in that video, he has a line where he says, Abraham Lincoln once said, if you are a racist, I will attack you with the North.

Speaker 1 I love that line so much.

Speaker 1 And I asked BJ, who wrote that line

Speaker 1 because I know there's a collective element to the script writing. So the process is they break down the plot and then a single writer goes and writes it.

Speaker 1 But then they bring that script back to the group and people can pitch jokes. They do joke punch up.
Yeah, they can do joke punch up. And BJ said it was Paul Lieberstein.
Oh, so smart.

Speaker 1 And he said that the people in the writer's room thought it might be like too heady of a joke or that it might not really land.

Speaker 1 But not only did it land, it is one of the most quoted lines from the show and inspired a fan site called Northern Attack.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 It was great. So smart.
So great.

Speaker 1 I also asked BJ about diversity today

Speaker 1 and diversity tomorrow. And he said that he wrote that, that he wrote diversity, that it was called Diversity Today.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, Michael calls it diversity tomorrow because today is almost over.

Speaker 1 But he said his original pitch, which he was very sad to have to lose, was that it was actually called Diversity 360.

Speaker 1 And Michael said in his video that he was from Diversity 365 because diversity should never take five days off.

Speaker 1 But unfortunately, there was a real Diversity 360. Oh, okay.
And they couldn't clear it because it would have seemed like we were making fun of a real business.

Speaker 1 So he had to change it to diversity today, diversity tomorrow. That is so funny.

Speaker 1 I have a little note card here for you, lady. Give it to me.
So there's a moment in the conference room where Jen and I are seated next to each other. And oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 So we were rarely seated next to each other because we would just start laughing. This is what we discovered pretty early on.
But this was an extreme reason. This was an extreme reason why.

Speaker 1 So Steve as Michael, like, you know, we knew he was going to sit into the scene, but we didn't know exactly how. Like he, he hadn't done this in any rehearsals.
So here we are, the camera's rolling.

Speaker 1 And that conference room is small. And so he was right in front of Jenna and I.
Yeah. And he turned, as Michael, he turns his chair around and straddles it.

Speaker 1 And it's like an office chair that was very bouncy. See? It was very bouncy.
Like it like bobbed up and down and he kept bobbing forward and back like kind of kind of very groiny.

Speaker 1 Kind of grinding into the chair a little bit, like leaning forward. And Jenna and I were like, so we were like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 Well, you can see my hand is up by my mouth through most of that scene. And it was because when I started to break, I would cover my mouth.

Speaker 1 It was so hard not to just laugh through the whole scene because he was, he was so brilliantly being this cringy boss who's so inappropriate, but is trying to do something good for the office, like all of his intentions, you know?

Speaker 1 That was the scene that I think I broke the most in for this episode.

Speaker 1 It was, it was that with him just like grinding into that chair, but you were making it worse because you were right next to me. And if you notice, for the rest of the episode, we are separated.

Speaker 1 We're separated. Also, I don't know if you noticed, but I try really hard not to look at you.
Like, because I was like, I couldn't look at you, but I could see your shoulders shaking. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Or I could like sense you shaking. And then I would just start laughing.
And I didn't want to laugh because I was like, oh, God. I was still like every day like, please don't fire me.

Speaker 1 Please don't fire me. Yes.
Please don't fire me. We are trying to be professional.
We're trying to be professionals.

Speaker 1 and Steve is so professional, but I want to challenge you guys if Steve Currell turned a chair around backwards and started kind of like leaning into it. Leaning into it close to you.

Speaker 1 It was so close to us. It was very close.
I feel like the scene itself doesn't properly communicate how close. It doesn't.
Well, I did a little bit of background looking. Oh.

Speaker 1 And there is a reflection of us in the television screen

Speaker 1 when the shots are on Steve. Uh-huh.
And I think if you look really closely at the reflection, you can see me break one time.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 You and I have become like obsessed with our own show. It's so ridiculous.
It's a little odd. It's a little odd.
Okay, I have a quick story about those note cards we had to tape to our foreheads.

Speaker 1 Oh, yes. Okay, so here's the thing, guys.
Imagine taping a note card to your forehead because it had the double stick tape so it would stay in place.

Speaker 1 Imagine putting that on at 7:30 in the morning and not taking it off till like 5 p.m.

Speaker 1 which is what we did which is what we did i mean you we did take it off at lunch for 30 minutes but then we had to put it back on at the end of the day of wearing that double stick tape on my forehead when we took that note card off it had peeled off all my baby hairs on my forehead yes and i had a strip like a

Speaker 1 like a bare strip on my forehead and so the next morning when we went into hair and makeup the makeup would not adhere to my forehead it was like you had wax waxed your forehead in one tiny rectangle spot and a few of us had that a few of us like i mean i'm so fair that like my skin like shows everything but i had kind of like this like this rectangle hickey on my forehead of where that note card had been there all day well i remember us walking around backstage uh-huh getting snacks they didn't want to reach

Speaker 1 no because then they'd have to you know it was a continuity thing even they didn't want it to be in any way different yeah they took photos of us to make sure it was always in the exact same spot it wasn't too high or too low and once they taped it on they were really like guys please don't take your note card off your forehead so imagine being like oh we have a 15 minute break i'm gonna get some pretzels and a cheese stick but i'm eating the cheese stick and pretzels while wearing you know a note card on my head that said jamaica That's how we walked around.

Speaker 1 Like we went to the bathroom. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh my lord. A lot of people asked about the note cards.
Like, was there, did we have any say and what our note cards said? No. No.
It was all scripted. It wasn't random.

Speaker 1 A lot of people asked questions about how much improvisation happened in the scenes with the note cards. All that was scripted.
All scripted. Dwight saying, oh, man, am I a woman? That was scripted.

Speaker 1 There was even a deleted scene in there where Jim pranks Dwight after Dwight figures out what his race is. Jim gives him a new card and he's like, here, here, you should have this new card.

Speaker 1 And Dwight tapes it to his head and what Jim's written on it is Dwight. And so I remember filming scenes where he's walking around the room and we're all saying things like, oh man, you're annoying.

Speaker 1 You're difficult to be around. Yeah, yeah.
And he's guessing all these different things. And then really, it just says Dwight on his forehead.
Okay, so I heard there was a deleted scene.

Speaker 1 And guys, I bought the DVDs, okay? I bought the DVDs at Target, but I don't have a DVD player. This is your problem.
You're very close to being able to enjoy this DVD. I know.

Speaker 1 For one major step, one major step.

Speaker 1 I forgot we didn't have a DVD player anymore.

Speaker 1 So I have them, but I read that there was a deleted scene where Devin, Devin who sat in the background with Creed, has a note card on his forehead and you see it. I think he's outside.

Speaker 1 And as Michael walks in, he's outside. And his note card says West Nile.

Speaker 1 I don't know that. Is that true? I don't know.
That's so funny. If you get a DVD player, will you come back and tell us? Yes, I've got to get to the bottom of that.

Speaker 1 I do want to talk about one scene because when I put it out on Twitter that we were recording this episode, the most frequently asked question was about the scene where Mindy slaps Steve. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 People had a lot of questions about that scene. And I remember filming that.
And the reason I remember filming it is because Mindy could not stop laughing. Mindy could not stop laughing.

Speaker 1 She laughed every single take. Every take, and we were all standing there watching.
Yes. And

Speaker 1 every time it was time for her to slap Steve, she would laugh. But then right after she slapped Steve, she would laugh.

Speaker 1 One thing we should say, and a lot of people wondered, was the slap real or fake?

Speaker 1 Well, I remember we shot that so many times and the majority of the time it was fake. Fake.
It's fake.

Speaker 1 She made no contact with him because people wanted to know, oh my gosh, did he have a big red mark on his face or anything like that?

Speaker 1 And no, she, and thank goodness it was fake because she kept breaking every time. It was like unusable.

Speaker 1 I feel like I do remember Steve, and I don't know if you remember this, Jenna. I do feel like I remember him in one take saying, I think you, you know, just go ahead and hit me once.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Go ahead and hit me one time. Right.
So I think there was one where she made contact with him. And there was also

Speaker 1 one time she didn't laugh. And that's the time it's in the episode.
That's it. That's it.
But I think if you look really closely, you can see, I mean, we know Mindy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think we, I can see her, her eyes

Speaker 1 a little bit. Or she does a thing where she doesn't close her mouth all the way, and that's because she's about to laugh.
Yeah. And she's trying not to.
Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 We got to know each other all so well that I know everyone's tell before they break. Like it's just so like clear when someone's about to laugh.

Speaker 1 Another thing more than one person asked, I guess there's a controversy. Is Steve saying cookie cookie or googie googie? He's saying googie googie.
Googie googie. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm glad we could solve that.

Speaker 1 I have some note cards, my lady. Let's do a note card.
Okay. All right.
This is a very sort of dorky actor moment, so just bear with me.

Speaker 1 But I thought John, as Jim, did such a fantastic job on the phone with Mr. Decker when he loses his sale to Dwight.

Speaker 1 Oh, it is one of the hardest things in the world to have a fake, one-sided phone conversation. That has hills and valleys of emotion.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Where you're reacting like this, he's excited, then he's disappointed, then he like figures out what happened. And there's no one on the other line.
No one. There's no one speaking to you.

Speaker 1 John is just doing that on his own. And I just sat there and I re-watched it.
And John, I just want you to know you crushed that phone call. I thought you did such a great job.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, I have done films or I have done things where someone is on the other line.

Speaker 1 For example, in season nine, when Pam breaks down crying at her desk, they figured out a way to wire in John Krasinski live so I could hear him in my ear.

Speaker 1 So there are times when there's a really emotional scene or a scene that really requires you to speak to the other actor, but like 90% of the time, you are just pretending someone.

Speaker 1 There's no one there. Yeah, exactly.
And so John was just talking to Mr. Decker who wasn't there.
And I just thought he did such a great job. So anyway, I just had to give a little love to JK.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And after that scene, when Jim finds out that he has lost the sale, that Dwight stole the sale, that is 25% of his income.

Speaker 1 He goes back into the conference room where Michael is wrapping things up and everyone is bored to tears. And that is when Pam falls asleep on Jim's shoulder.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 we filmed that about, oh my goodness, like 15, 16 times that scene, because this was our Jim Pam moment of the episode. This was it.

Speaker 1 And they really wanted to get these little Jim Pam moments just perfectly.

Speaker 1 I looked up this scene in the script and there is a piece of stage direction that BJ Novak wrote that I want to read for you because I think it is so perfect.

Speaker 1 He wrote, Jim reacts to Pam falling asleep on him like a butterfly has landed on his shoulder. Aw.
Isn't that so poetic? That's so poetic. That is so sweet.

Speaker 1 And so that's what John had in his mind was that was his, you know, inspiration for how to react to that.

Speaker 1 That is so so like how special to have a butterfly land on your shoulder and you don't want to move and

Speaker 1 you don't want to disturb it. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, that is so sweet.
Well, I wrote, you know, this is equally as just insightful, you guys. I wrote on my note card, what a great jam moment at the end.

Speaker 1 And Jenna's skin looks flawless. Well, thank you, Angela, because I did notice in an earlier shot, there is a shot of my skin that looks just terrible.

Speaker 1 Well, we didn't have like any makeup on, really, like at all, like barely any makeup. Powder, blush, and a little mascara.
Right.

Speaker 1 And I had one strip of powder that wouldn't stick to my forehead anymore. So I don't know, Jenna, I thought your skin looked flawless.
Well, you know what?

Speaker 1 To wrap it up, why don't we do one last fan question? Okay.

Speaker 1 Alexia asked if there were any scenes that were taken out that we wish had made it in.

Speaker 1 And I picked this fan question because my answer is yes. Okay, which one, Jenna? I was in it.
Well, what is it?

Speaker 1 All right. So you remember earlier in the episode when Mr.
Brown starts his training, he explains what a hero is and it's an acronym.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then Dwight explains what he thinks a hero is. Yeah.
Well, after all that happened, there was a scene where Michael stands up and creates his own acronym for sensitivity.

Speaker 1 And his words are inclusion, new attitude, colorblind, expectations, sharing, and tolerance. And while he's saying these words, Dwight is writing them on a whiteboard.

Speaker 1 And I look at the whiteboard and I say, Michael, that spells incest.

Speaker 1 And then Steve tap dances and says, but it still works because incest is bad and discrimination is bad. But also incest is something that happens in your family.
And the world is our family.

Speaker 1 Like it just is crazy ramble. Just back away from it.
Yeah, but he won't let it go. And then Pam has a talking head that says if he just rearranged the words, he could have spelled insect.

Speaker 1 And I just, I,

Speaker 1 I just remember shooting that scene.

Speaker 1 And every time I had to raise my hand and very matter of factly point out that it spells incest, then there was just this silence in the room as everyone took it in.

Speaker 1 And I was sad that went on the cutting room floor. That's very funny.
So thank you, Alexia, for your question. All right, everybody, that was Diversity Day.

Speaker 1 And next week, we're going to be talking about health care. Angela, what do you think about when you think about health care? Hot dog fingers.
Hot dog fingers.

Speaker 1 We're going to talk about hot dog fingers with our first special guest, Rain Wilson. Yes, that tall drink of water is calling in, and we are going to talk about the episode with him.

Speaker 1 So be sure and tune in.

Speaker 1 Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fisher, and Angela Kinsey.
Our producer is Cody Fisher. Our sound engineer is Sam Kiefer.

Speaker 1 And our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. Remember, you can listen to ad-free versions of Office Ladies on Stitcher Premium.
For a free month of Stitcher Premium, use code Office.

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