We Found the Secret Album That the NBA's Best Executive Doesn't Want You to Hear

Speaker 3 I'm Pablo Torre, and this episode of Pablo Torre finds out is brought to you by Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities.

Speaker 6 Please drink responsibly because today we're going to find out what this sound is.

Speaker 10 Yo, here and going is Mother Nature's Sass.

Speaker 10 That's why when we are live, we gotta strive and keep on

Speaker 2 right after this ad.

Speaker 11 do not open what's in front of you yet is it a very angry letter from Stephen A. Smith

Speaker 6 is just him being like how dare you not believe that I could be serious about running for president I can say that it is not that although I can't rule out the fact that he might say that to you at one point all right now I'm even more curious the extent to which I've told you that we're doing a kind of different share and tell today in which it's just you you just said hey come do the show no other details so yeah uh batter up yeah and now you got this thing in front of you um with my name on it yeah it has your name on it's very expertly wrapped as always this is our nba finals coverage all right welcome

Speaker 17 but my first real question for you wyatt is whether you know anything about the executive in charge of the oklahoma city thunder a guy by the name sam Presti presti of Sam Presti.

Speaker 6 What else do you know about this man?

Speaker 11 He was from the Spurs organization. Yes.
And then got the job in Oklahoma City.

Speaker 11 And his first name is Sam.

Speaker 1 That's kind of how it goes, I think, in general with Sam Presti, who, by the way, this year did win the NBA's Executive of the Year Award.

Speaker 17 His team is in the NBA Finals, obviously.

Speaker 27 They're playing the Pacers right now, the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Speaker 6 And he is, I think, to the point of of you not knowing much beyond what you gave me, extraordinarily private.

Speaker 1 He is very secretive.

Speaker 13 We don't know a lot about him by design.

Speaker 31 I want to look on national television and apologize to that man for any questions I've had about how exceptional he is as an executive. I'm dead serious.

Speaker 22 I don't apologize often.

Speaker 31 But Sam Presti, on national television, I'm going to say this. I, Stephen A.
Smith, owe this man an apology. I don't give a damn about the championships right now.
I can't win on a Knicks fan.

Speaker 31 I can tell you this.

Speaker 32 To have 15 picks, to have that roster, to have them this young playing at this level,

Speaker 31 this man

Speaker 31 is

Speaker 31 the man is a special executive.

Speaker 13 And all of this means, for people who just aren't familiar,

Speaker 34 that they overcame the loss of the three consecutive MVPs that Sam Presty drafted in his first three drafts.

Speaker 29 He took Kevin Durant, then Russell Westbrook, then James Hardin in his first three seasons as the GM.

Speaker 6 And in fact, while those three MVPs left Oklahoma City for bigger markets, Sam Presti, who has had a ton of incoming interest from other bigger markets, he never did, obviously.

Speaker 13 He never left.

Speaker 17 And so what he did was he stockpiled a Zillian draft picks.

Speaker 2 He traded for Shea Gildis-Alexander, the season's MVP, which is impressive in its own right, 168 games.

Speaker 13 He got a city that pretty much nobody wants to willingly play for back to to the finals.

Speaker 16 And the secrecy of him, the secrecy of this organization, which has been a bit of a black box, has been this way for so long that there is one story from Grantland years ago in which a reporter for Fox Sports said, quote, when it comes to getting a one-on-one interview, it would be easier to get access to the leader of ISIS,

Speaker 5 end quote.

Speaker 11 Didn't ISIS, didn't they have social media for a while? Imagine if that's your job as, yeah, I'm the social media manager for ISIS.

Speaker 4 My real passion is making music, but

Speaker 15 my day job, I am

Speaker 6 managing the ISIS social feeds.

Speaker 11 We've got some pretty fun TikToks.

Speaker 21 All of this is to say, and I want you to be aware of this before we proceed any further. All right.

Speaker 15 That Sam Presti did not want me to do this episode with you, Wyatt.

Speaker 11 Specifically because of me?

Speaker 5 Well, that part I can't necessarily isolate.

Speaker 11 But in general.

Speaker 7 Yeah, he doesn't want this to happen.

Speaker 21 Okay.

Speaker 25 He's also very media fluent, and I say that because one thing I can report is that a little over a decade ago, he actually explored hiring our extremely plugged-in buddy Brian Winhorst away from ESPN to work as an information guy for the Thunder.

Speaker 13 And the question of like, why would he do that? Why would he do that?

Speaker 33 It's because we got to put up

Speaker 33 our windhorse fingers. Yes, that's right.

Speaker 29 The reason that Zam Presty considered hiring Brian Winhorst to kick the tires on hiring him away from ESPN is that information to Sam Presti is currency.

Speaker 27 It is an edge, a competitive advantage.

Speaker 30 And you don't surrender that information.

Speaker 34 And so Sam Presty never speaks to the media on the record during the season.

Speaker 17 He actually, in a very careful way, does it precisely twice a year.

Speaker 25 He speaks once in the preseason and once after the finals are over.

Speaker 24 And he just talks basketball.

Speaker 14 That is his entire allotment of public exposure.

Speaker 6 And so what I started doing in lieu of a sit with Sam Presty, him being the third chair with us on this episode of Share and Tell.

Speaker 11 Right, yeah. We should have still just had a chair.

Speaker 39 Instead,

Speaker 15 what I started doing was I was just grinding Sam Presty press conference archival video, looking for the thing that he seems to be trying to hide.

Speaker 28 And what I found was something interesting.

Speaker 21 Okay.

Speaker 6 Because back in 2012, which was the last year that the Thunder win the NBA Finals,

Speaker 21 Sam Presty, perhaps not coincidentally, showed up at his annual preseason press conference that fall a little more loose than usual, even a little more confident, you might say.

Speaker 40 I like,

Speaker 40 which

Speaker 40 many people in here probably don't really care about, but I'll say it anyway because I am interested in it.

Speaker 40 I like watching, I like music documentaries. VH1 has this

Speaker 40 series called Classic Albums.

Speaker 41 Has anyone ever seen this?

Speaker 40 It's like, I'm totally hooked. And

Speaker 40 if you know where to find the actuals, like set of them, let me know. I can't find them.
So I do most of my viewing on YouTube.

Speaker 40 But they've got like all these, it basically takes you back through how the albums were made. So like Pink Floyd the Wall, Jay-Z's Reasonable Doubt, that was really good.

Speaker 40 Steely Dan Asia. And you go back, like the producer, and you hear what they were thinking and the artists themselves, what they were thinking when they were doing the actual recording.

Speaker 40 It's fascinating. I think it's really, really good.

Speaker 13 Sam Presti, to continue the scouting report, he did play basketball at Emerson.

Speaker 6 And that video, by the way, had 28 views on YouTube for those who want to go check it out.

Speaker 17 And part of what I learned as the 28th person to see this video is just that his genuine and to this point generally undisclosed non-basketball passion does happen to be music.

Speaker 40 Other thing that I thought was interesting,

Speaker 40 or for me personally, I share with everybody since we're on this weird kick.

Speaker 40 And everybody knows I'm like really open about all this stuff.

Speaker 40 You catch me on a good day.

Speaker 4 And at one point,

Speaker 25 Sam Fresni is asked, actually, which music documentaries about which particular albums

Speaker 29 he might like to see.

Speaker 40 Pretty much anything by James Brown, I would be fascinated by.

Speaker 40 You know just to see the dir like just kind of how he guided the the bands because the bands were just so tight and so well put together i'd be fascinated by

Speaker 40 by that um

Speaker 40 kind of blew by miles davis you know to see that history basically coming together um that would be awesome so i'll stop there but that but i can go on when he said miles davis kind of blew it's interesting that he said just that album and not maybe a more expansive Miles Davis.

Speaker 6 Well, now I think it's clear probably why I invited you here.

Speaker 39 Sure, yes.

Speaker 17 Because you, beyond being a person with an actual expansive record collection,

Speaker 2 you are a bit of a musicologist. You would do listening parties basically on your social channels.

Speaker 22 Oh, during the pandemic. During the pandemic.

Speaker 5 And so, yeah, like I am not that guy.

Speaker 21 But what I did in lieu of my musical knowledge is continue to just fall down the rabbit hole on this um i went to the dark corners of youtube and twitter and reddit trying to just like look into sam presty and his love of music yeah and did you find like a discogs account for him well you know multiple friends of his in the nba told me that they knew nothing about this period but in lieu of a yeah a discogs account or anything like that yeah

Speaker 17 I found somebody who did know something about this topic.

Speaker 44 Hi, my name is Dara Mirzai. I'm an attorney.
I've been an Oklahoma City fan since the day they moved in OKC. I was born and raised in Oklahoma.

Speaker 29 And what you should know, Wyatt, about Dara is that he's an Oklahoma native, Thunder Super fan, and I found him while digging through Reddit.

Speaker 28 And Dara, like you,

Speaker 36 also loves music, not unlike Sam Presti, it seems.

Speaker 19 And in fact, like you, Dara does love digging through crates.

Speaker 44 So about seven or eight years ago, I was on vacation around the Boston area and we were visiting some music shops or whatever was left of them.

Speaker 44 And we went into one and they had this extensive discount bin of CDs, which is full of a bunch of CDs of bands no one's ever heard of.

Speaker 44 And so I was looking through them and all of a sudden I stumbled across one and I thought, oh, this is funny. This guy has the same name as the Thunder GM.

Speaker 44 I picked it up and it was obviously a really old CD. And so I figured it was some local musician from 20 years ago.
And so I just bought it. I mean, I've bought CDs for worse reasons before.

Speaker 44 About a week or two later, I finally put the CD in just to hear what it was like.

Speaker 44 And I thought it was going to be like an acoustic album or whatever. And all of a sudden, 20 seconds in, the guy starts talking.
I'm like, I've heard this voice.

Speaker 14 this is definitely sampresty's voice and so wyatt what i'd like you to do now is please open the package in front of you and describe it for those not watching on YouTube, please.

Speaker 21 All right.

Speaker 29 Because what you are doing, what you have in your hands, is what Dara himself was holding almost a decade ago now when he was looking very closely at this strange found object.

Speaker 11 It is a

Speaker 18 CD cover.

Speaker 11 It says Sam Presty.

Speaker 11 The title of the album is Milk Money.

Speaker 11 There's a picture of what appears to be a young Sam Presti in

Speaker 11 shorts of the time. This feels very much, I would say, mid-90s,

Speaker 11 where the shorts are going way past the knee because that was a time in life where men felt they had to cover up their knees.

Speaker 29 So the black and white photo, that's kind of like artistically shot, right?

Speaker 17 Like the foreground woman is out of focus.

Speaker 11 The text is like the sans serif, like red yeah you know it's like a highbrow kind of aesthetic there's someone else who could look at this and say oh this is the design style of like

Speaker 1 seven like indie backpack hip-hop albums of the time right and of that time uh it turns out is sam presti he was a drummer at Emerson College and the voice that Dara heard when he was listening to this thing on loop and started googling all these search terms, it didn't exist anywhere else on the internet.

Speaker 1 No one had posted this.

Speaker 19 There was no audio of this music anywhere else.

Speaker 9 And there still isn't, by the way.

Speaker 44 So a couple of years ago, I actually tried to put it on YouTube. I just thought it'd be fun.
I wasn't trying to make any money off of it.

Speaker 44 And I put online just Sam Presty Milk Money, nothing like Thunder GM's hidden rap album.

Speaker 44 And I put online and got a couple of views. And then a couple of days later, I kind of just started getting some messages of just

Speaker 44 some people asking me to sort of take it down. So eventually I did.

Speaker 33 Who asked you to take it down?

Speaker 47 So I don't know who they were, but

Speaker 44 they were just complaining like, hey, should this really be out there? This was kind of something he did when he was young. And I sort of started talking to them.

Speaker 44 And I don't have any approved of it, but it felt like it was someone who

Speaker 44 kind of might have known Sam or was in their camp and just like, I'm not really sure if we want that out there. And so, you know, I was, I was just like, okay, I don't want to mess with anyone.

Speaker 44 I'll just take it down. I don't want to cause any problems.

Speaker 8 You don't want to be at war with your favorite basketball team over this CD that you found in a crate?

Speaker 44 Yeah. And at the time, I was traveling back to Guilma City a lot.
I didn't want to get banned from Thunder Games or anything either.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I will say that banned for posting Thunder GM's hidden rap album would be an incredible headline.

Speaker 18 That would, yeah.

Speaker 11 I'm looking on the back here, and this is all accurate here, the sort of back production credits.

Speaker 33 I believe so.

Speaker 11 Because it says this was put out on relativity records.

Speaker 11 Is that like...

Speaker 14 What does this mean to you?

Speaker 11 3.6 Mafia was on relativity.

Speaker 11 Common was on relativity.

Speaker 29 It raises the question of like,

Speaker 14 Why Sam Presty does not want this on the internet?

Speaker 13 Because presumably, like, the question is, is it actually so embarrassing that you would want this scrubbed?

Speaker 21 Right.

Speaker 19 Right.

Speaker 28 And so, what I can tell you is that even though Sam Presti did not want me to do this episode with you, I have done now significantly more than merely acquire this copy of the album Milk Money that he released.

Speaker 2 An album, by the way, that his longtime PR person, Matt Tumbleson with the Thunder, has never heard before.

Speaker 21 Okay.

Speaker 6 I am told.

Speaker 13 What we're kind of doing in this episode, Wyatt, is making our own version of one of Sam Presti's favorite things.

Speaker 29 We're gonna make the Milk Money music documentary.

Speaker 11 Also, one other thing in the production: you said the chap we were talking to, his name was Dara. Yeah,

Speaker 11 so this is written and produced by Sam Presti under Relativity Records and Dara's Dream Publishing.

Speaker 11 It's Sam Presti's nightmare,

Speaker 11 but it seems like it's Dara's dream.

Speaker 17 So, I, at this point, I just want to turn your attention to some of the band members involved in the production of this album.

Speaker 13 Because, again, Super Thunder fan, Dara randomly unearthed this thing in that discount CD bin in Boston. And it turns out that Milk Money was more than merely Sam Presti's musical debut.

Speaker 48 Hey, everybody, my name is Mike Tucker. I'm a professional saxophonist.
I'm a Grammy-nominated saxophonist who teaches at Berkeley College of Music. I'm a professor there.

Speaker 48 And I also tour regularly with trumpet player Arturo Sandoval.

Speaker 2 At the risk of ruining this interview already, do you have your sax nearby, Mike?

Speaker 11 I feel like people meet a comedian and they're like, tell me a joke. And it's like, no.
Or if you meet a dentist and it's like, hey, take a look at this tooth. No.

Speaker 11 But saxophone player, hey, do you happen to be strapped right now? Of course, I'm a saxophone player.

Speaker 21 I'm always strapped.

Speaker 9 For the record, your Grammy-nominated saxophone is Mike Tucker.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Was ready on all sorts of fronts.

Speaker 29 I mean, when I asked him, do you remember meeting Sam Presty, who was again playing D3 basketball at Emerson at the time?

Speaker 15 Yeah.

Speaker 29 He did not hesitate.

Speaker 48 So the first time I met Sam was actually at a rehearsal for this recording when I was a junior in high school. But Sam, you know, he definitely made a real impression on me.

Speaker 48 My friend, Matt Morin, he was a pianist. He doesn't play anymore.
But we both were playing together.

Speaker 48 And Matt went to Conquered Carlisle High School, which Sam attended.

Speaker 51 Yeah, so my name is Matthew Morin, and I used to be a musician, a jazz musician, a jazz pianist. And then I became an ethnomusicologist and a professor.

Speaker 51 And now I'm a dean at a community college in California, Santa College.

Speaker 30 So Sam

Speaker 51 and I went to the same high school. He was a year ahead of me.

Speaker 51 And he was definitely one of the cool kids. There was a band room, and we were really dorky, right? Like we were like losers.
And

Speaker 51 we hid in the band room. Like we would eat our lunch in there and he totally would come and listen,

Speaker 51 you know, and it wasn't fake. He really did.

Speaker 51 Like he was like, he looked up to us as these dorky kids, as like, you know, like a a a really like popular basketball guy with a girlfriend and all this other stuff you know that we we looked up to that was like that was the best you know that was the best and i think it actually did a lot for our self-confidence that we probably never admitted to ourselves that then he asked us to be on this album

Speaker 48 Basically, like his concept was like he didn't want to do anything like specifically jazz or hip-hop, but he was into both.

Speaker 48 So like, you know, when we recorded, we recorded a couple jazz tunes, but then there were a couple like kind of like spoken word kind of rap things in there too.

Speaker 48 I actually just, the other day when you guys contacted me for this interview, I had to, I hadn't listened to the album since we recorded it, basically.

Speaker 22 Oh, wow, wow, wow.

Speaker 48 But I listened back to it yesterday, and it was like probably in like 1996 or 7 that we recorded it. So it was like at a time where like hip-hop artists were collaborating with jazz musicians.

Speaker 33 Are you a basketball fan?

Speaker 48 I mean, man, like I'm not

Speaker 48 at all.

Speaker 19 But why, this era, dare I say, might be very familiar to you.

Speaker 18 Yeah.

Speaker 11 Like he was saying, there was a big connection between jazz and hip-hop, whether you were talking about Tribe Call Quest, but also thinking about Guru was putting out the Jazz Mataz albums and Diggable Planets.

Speaker 11 And so there was this thing that was happening around that time. I think that predates Cornell West's rap album,

Speaker 11 which is a thing that exists.

Speaker 4 That's right.

Speaker 25 You're talking about...

Speaker 7 noted Matrix Cinematic Universe cast member, Cornell West.

Speaker 11 Yeah, you might know him from The Matrix.

Speaker 4 Nothing else, just The Matrix.

Speaker 19 But but again conscious hip-hop right yes was the brand all of which is to say that track one of milk money the introduction

Speaker 9 sounded like this

Speaker 55 music transcends race religion sex it transcends all of that it's a reflection of the human heart

Speaker 56 somebody can just type with that for you you know if you say what it means you take what it means you'll flip

Speaker 56 I mean flip for real yeah I understand what you're saying

Speaker 57 Yeah,

Speaker 57 that's what I tried to do is, you know, because I had all the music in my head that I wanted to do, but I had to track everybody down.

Speaker 57 You know, so the only way I knew how to do it was just get the people that were close to me that I thought could carry out, you know,

Speaker 57 and kind of expand on the things that I was thinking about.

Speaker 11 So I went and I got...

Speaker 57 Mark Panaski from way back, Dave Wolfberg from way back, and

Speaker 57 you know, Jason Reese, Chris Hall both came in and did some hornwork on it for me.

Speaker 57 You know, I got Matt Moore and Mike Tucker just killing them,

Speaker 57 James Blackwell doing some cuts.

Speaker 57 Got Matt Beinfrast up from Jersey with his man Islow up from Philly to flow over track that we did.

Speaker 57 You know, and it's it's tough because I didn't want to overstep my boundaries because I'm not a hip-hop purist.

Speaker 57 I'm not a jazz purist by any means, you know, but it's music that I love and it's stuff that I wanted to do. So

Speaker 15 what are you thinking as you listen to track one of Milk Money for the first time?

Speaker 11 The first thing I'm thinking is

Speaker 11 there's a real humility that he has that

Speaker 11 I feel like I want to commend him for as both saying

Speaker 11 he is someone who appreciates his music but does not consider himself an aficionado.

Speaker 11 The other thing that stands out to me, as I was listening to it, there was that horn,

Speaker 11 that sort of horn riff that I couldn't place, but I recognized it. And

Speaker 11 I'm still having trouble recognizing it. I feel like maybe it was from

Speaker 11 a guru jazzmataz album. I'm not 100% sure.
But then there was this audio collage of things that were happening. There was

Speaker 11 a piece from the roots from Proceed.

Speaker 11 there was something from you could hear q-tip in there and so

Speaker 11 the thing that was teed up earlier where i was mentioning

Speaker 11 this moment in time and the roots and a tribe and diggable planets and all this stuff it is yes it's he and i were drinking nailed it we were drinking the same water yeah yes yeah this is this is i know you sam he could not be um more clearly a fan of a tribe called quest yeah Yeah.

Speaker 25 And that got Matt thinking.

Speaker 51 I'll just say that the hip-hop influences were his. Like he was really, I think, down that road.
He was picking the genre that had

Speaker 51 less cachet and less like marketability

Speaker 51 because instead he wanted to lean into the harder thing because it really was his creation. It wasn't like Mike and I were calling the shots.

Speaker 51 Because if we were calling the shots, it would have been straight ahead jazz, every single track, and probably nothing but like up tempo.

Speaker 51 And there is a really strong parallel to what he does right now.

Speaker 37 And so, that whole thing about like Sam Presty on this quest to win a title in Oklahoma City, which has less cache, less marketability, again, no star players, demand trades there or sign there as free agents.

Speaker 27 The TV ratings, also compared to the larger markets, obviously worse.

Speaker 11 If Sam Presti were in a larger market, if he were in New York,

Speaker 11 I don't know that he has

Speaker 11 the cachet

Speaker 11 to say,

Speaker 5 hey, I want to stockpile draft picks.

Speaker 11 I want to basically

Speaker 11 go into the basement for a little while and tinker. And when you think about, you know,

Speaker 4 that sort of world of indie or backpack

Speaker 11 conscious hip-hop, whatever you want to call it, I feel like for so much of that, it was, okay, yeah, you're going into the basement and you're just tinkering.

Speaker 60 And I think that exact argument might be embodied in the title of what turns out to be the album's fourth track, which is an original song, titled Nothing to Lose.

Speaker 10 Freeloader, yo, here and going. It's Mother Nature's Sass.

Speaker 10 Now put your minds in it.

Speaker 10 Life's lesson, chapter one Slice to a section From the pop graph, a word craft and mic blessing I said an incline Slipped in the vinyl route Pursued the paragraphs and pulling caps in the loose Lay back, lounge core depth Nothing to lose And it reminiscing blissing as I shifted the crews On paying dues ain't about aggression Well, how you dressing is progression of mind that can't be learned in one session That's why confession to the self is harder than lying.

Speaker 10 Trying tribulation, trying alert, panicle sirens, properties of steels, iron fire, fly towards the back, like a heat, crazy copper feed, blood drenched the map.

Speaker 10 Ask yourself while stamina swing low on the tube through the grassy dew. Situation thicket and glue, snares halopress, detest me.
Feel that the chemistry, ill-rap, distill that, extract the.

Speaker 9 I should just say that.

Speaker 26 He rented a place in New Hampshire himself.

Speaker 13 He donated all of the proceeds from Milk Money.

Speaker 25 And also this live concert that the band performed in, according to Mike Tucker, the saxophonist.

Speaker 13 He donated all of the proceeds from this concert in front of like 300, 400 people in Boston to charity.

Speaker 4 Oh, wow. Yeah.

Speaker 16 And so the charity, all the proceeds went to the Extraordinary Needs Fund at Boston Children's Hospital.

Speaker 4 Oh, wow. That is like a pretty...

Speaker 23 I find it hard to

Speaker 23 poke any holes in that part of this.

Speaker 17 And then they produced another album together, actually, whose artwork has been floating around the NBA dorkweb.

Speaker 19 The album is called All Things Considered.

Speaker 7 It's a black and white photo of Sam Presti.

Speaker 11 That's him in the far background.

Speaker 27 Yeah, so he's like this Waldo character who is just in the back with a chessboard in front of him.

Speaker 9 And again, the metaphors kind of speak for themselves at this point.

Speaker 39 But

Speaker 9 yeah, a guy who had become known for his decision-making is sort of like trying to hide in the background of his own follow-up album cover to Milk Money.

Speaker 14 And time for this band was short, by the way, ultimately.

Speaker 17 Like everybody after these albums came out and then disappeared,

Speaker 33 everyone went off in their own directions.

Speaker 14 Mike and Matt and Sam did not stay close.

Speaker 51 No, there's no, I mean, there really is no relationship, but it wasn't like out of disrespect. It was just like we could, we didn't have the album.
So like you sending me that was like awesome.

Speaker 51 I was like, this is, this is crazy.

Speaker 48 And I had no idea about his career, to be perfectly honest, because like I'm not like a sports person. And then like, I get a random call.
It's like, hey, man, this is like George from

Speaker 48 Oklahoma City Thunder. I work with the Thunder for Sam Presti.
Sam's going to be in town like next week and he'd love to like meet up with you, just wondering what your schedule is.

Speaker 48 And I was like, Oklahoma City. I was like, is that a college team? Is that, I know Sam's like doing basketball.
And then we reconnected.

Speaker 48 And when when he came to Boston, he, he, we met up at a club that I was playing at.

Speaker 48 He was telling me how like has always had a very long vision and he'd just see like talented players who might not be like the the superstar, but he could see something in them and see how he was going to develop that.

Speaker 48 He made all of his players take a financial management and awareness course. He was like, yeah, man, you know, everything's so expensive.

Speaker 48 You know, a gallon of milk is like, you know, so he's still, and he's, you know, Sam grew up in a, in a working-class family. Like his, he grew up with a single mother.
His mom was a nurse.

Speaker 48 You know, he really worked hard for everything he's, he's got.

Speaker 64 You just told a story before about Sam talking about like the price of milk.

Speaker 33 That's actually hilarious. Yeah.

Speaker 7 And the album's name is Milk Money.

Speaker 5 But not unlike Sam Presti in the Milk Money era, I also had a vision and I decided to not give this up.

Speaker 11 okay and i tumbled further and further down the sampresty jazz rabbit hole listening to the eight tracks on milk money on like a truly disturbingly endless loop the jazz rabbit hole sounds like that sounds like the the music show i need to make it really does hey everybody welcome to the jazz rabbit hole it's your host why it's anak

Speaker 11 tonight we're gonna go down the rabbit hole of the cti record label that's right you're listening to the jazz rabbit hole with wyatts and

Speaker 9 And on tonight's show, my guest Pablo Torre is going to text Thunder Guard Alex Caruso at 1:15 a.m.

Speaker 3 the night before game two of the NBA Finals, to ask if he knew about his boss's jazz rap albums.

Speaker 25 And he will not respond.

Speaker 9 I'm sorry to Alex Caruso, by the way.

Speaker 37 Like, I get it. It's just, I just couldn't.

Speaker 2 I was like, again, I'm a dog with a bone on this thing.

Speaker 11 Did you go to Alex Caruso because you thought that maybe somewhere somewhere in alex caruso is a is a is a is a is a 20-something white rapper it's interesting you went to him and yeah you know not isaiah hartenstein didn't want to didn't want to you know profile in any particular way sure just uh felt very important that i uh consult alex caruso specifically yeah but i didn't give up i continued to scour the internet to find anybody, musicians particularly, that Sam Presti might actually have stayed in touch with because I wanted to know what happened to that guy

Speaker 19 who got buried by his own design.

Speaker 25 And I spotted another name, a name that I do think Wyatt you would recognize as, again, a musicologist, an expert in this particular era.

Speaker 34 And this mystery guest did, in fact, respond to my request for comment by agreeing to an interview.

Speaker 6 And we're going to meet that person, Wyatt,

Speaker 11 after the break on the jazz rabbit hole

Speaker 11 with my special guest, Pablo Torre.

Speaker 34 You're vaguely familiar with what I do, I guess?

Speaker 60 Yes.

Speaker 62 I found out, yes.

Speaker 5 Amazing. Amazing.

Speaker 60 When I cold tweeted you, I was like, I had the desperation of a man at the bottom of a rabbit hole.

Speaker 65 I don't know if you could smell that on me.

Speaker 4 Oh, man, it was too early for that. I was like, damn, it's 6:30.

Speaker 66 Yeah, I was in the bathroom when I tweeted Branford Marsalis for the record.

Speaker 67 Hey, it works.

Speaker 34 Could you introduce yourself?

Speaker 68 My name is Branford Marsalis.

Speaker 69 I play music.

Speaker 4 Oh, come on.

Speaker 65 That's it?

Speaker 22 Bruh.

Speaker 70 I'm a musician. That's it.

Speaker 65 Multi-Grammy winner, doing the right thing, saxophonist, fight the power, public enemy in 89.

Speaker 58 None of that. None of that.

Speaker 71 Branford.

Speaker 72 You know, it's like Sam.

Speaker 42 It's like Sam.

Speaker 32 So, whether or not you realize this, there are a zillion ways that you may have already heard the legendary tenor saxophone of 64-year-old Branford Marsalis, who, beyond all the other stuff I already mentioned, has played with Miles Davis and Sting and the Grateful Dead and the Tonight Show Band, among many, many others.

Speaker 75 But I also remember Branford, maybe most vividly, from his cameo on The Fresh Prince of Bel Air in 1994.

Speaker 76 Why don't you put that down and come sit next to me?

Speaker 77 Oh my God, 30 years ago now.

Speaker 52 That's pretty cool.

Speaker 77 How's that, everything? Great.

Speaker 32 It worked? Perfect, Branford. Good.

Speaker 61 Good. I'm glad you liked it.
So look,

Speaker 78 I'm off like a dirty shirt.

Speaker 32 Hey, peace with two fingers, man.

Speaker 52 I can hide behind the couch and play.

Speaker 23 Yeah, sure, I can do that.

Speaker 35 But the reason Branford Marsalis is friends with Sam Presti, it turns out, goes a lot deeper than jazz and rap.

Speaker 52 I mean, first of all, it is entertainment at the end of the day.

Speaker 80 But

Speaker 77 there are people in this profession who genuinely love what they do.

Speaker 81 And then there are other people who genuinely love the attention that can be generated for them because of what it is that they do.

Speaker 77 When I'm meeting other musicians, I never lead off with how many records I've sold.

Speaker 52 I know people who do.

Speaker 69 Hey, man, how many units did you sell?

Speaker 68 I mean, are you serious?

Speaker 52 I mean, that's the conversation because, you know, I'm from New Orleans.

Speaker 81 I'm a country boy.

Speaker 77 But New York is a city for very ambitious people.

Speaker 81 And so I would say, so how you doing, bro? How you doing?

Speaker 10 And then they would proceed to tell me every gig that they have that month and then I would say well that's cool but I didn't really ask you what you were doing I asked you how you're doing my passion is for the thing not not for the notoriety

Speaker 23 and that to be clear is also the sort of New Yorker and podcaster that I personally would like to be

Speaker 35 Which brings us back to basketball and jazz, these two institutions that are often compared to each other and happen to be colliding right now as the Oklahoma City Thunder, built by Sam Presti and the Indiana Pacers, coached by Rick Carlisle, are quietly making their case for a very jazz-inflected championship, even more than if the actual Utah Jazz had made it.

Speaker 52 In music,

Speaker 82 there's the visible part, like the solo, people see the solo or the singer.

Speaker 72 But then there's the invisible part, and that's when the musicians have to use their skills to support a person who is in the front.

Speaker 68 Now, that is called comping, C-O-M-P-I-N-G.

Speaker 52 Piano players do it, guitar players do it.

Speaker 84 Sometimes the horns do it, but it's like in horn parts.

Speaker 79 The horn parts support the singer that's comping.

Speaker 78 Thanks to Bruce Hornsby, I have a sometimes physical chat, but a lot of texting between

Speaker 22 Rick Carlisle and myself.

Speaker 32 Out to towns to tie. No.

Speaker 54 Rebound fought for. Loose.
Bridges has got it. Clock is ticking.
Out of bounds.

Speaker 31 It's Indiana's ball with point two to go.

Speaker 69 So after game one against the Knicks, I wrote Rick and said, man, I've never seen anything like that.

Speaker 77 You know, your kids are amazing.

Speaker 49 And he writes back and says, you really like these guys.

Speaker 23 They love comping as much as they love soloing.

Speaker 77 And I was like, this is the hipest dude on the damn planet.

Speaker 62 That's just not something you're going to see

Speaker 62 in a conversation with somebody outside of the music business.

Speaker 79 But he's a smart cat, man.

Speaker 67 He always has been.

Speaker 17 And so I'm finding out so much already, which is to say that the NBA finals of the year 2025 AD are also the Branford Marsalis finals because you have this weigh-in to both sides.

Speaker 42 Yeah, it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 33 But this is the scent I've been tracking is that you had a connection to Sam Presti because of the research and the amount of just rabbit hole diving I've been doing.

Speaker 60 I didn't realize that you also knew Rick Carlisle.

Speaker 69 Yeah, Sam's a jazz fan, and Rick is a music fan, but Sam's, he's a music fan too.

Speaker 69 He's a jazz fan, and we struck up conversations, and he's also talked to Wenton about jazz and the relationship between team building, like building a team is very similar to building a band.

Speaker 62 You have to identify the strengths and weaknesses of each player,

Speaker 77 and you have to set up a construct so that you challenge the musicians to eliminate their weaknesses, where

Speaker 77 the impulse will always be to double down on one's strengths.

Speaker 52 Because it is certainly much easier to enforce what you already know than to go through the painstaking reality of addressing the things you're not very adept at.

Speaker 52 And it's pretty amazing when you look at both of those teams and how they've been constructed.

Speaker 52 We keep inventing ever since, you know, LeBron went to Miami, the big three.

Speaker 4 They don't really have a big three.

Speaker 8 No, that's the other story of this finals beyond the jazz is literally this.

Speaker 47 They're teams.

Speaker 21 Correct.

Speaker 87 Because even though Shay is the MVP, he doesn't have the persona where he's like, I'm the straw that stirs the drink.

Speaker 69 He's not on that vibe.

Speaker 66 The big three thing was the basic math.

Speaker 63 It was top heavy.

Speaker 19 And what you're seeing in a way that I didn't consider actually until you articulated it was the way in which jazz as a metaphor is actually even more meaningful.

Speaker 43 Because Because jazz as a metaphor, historically, in my understanding, had always been basketball is free-flowing, improvisational,

Speaker 83 all of the sort of like flowery language.

Speaker 63 You're talking about something interesting, more interesting than that to me.

Speaker 60 You're talking about guys need to get a hold of their ego and sublimate themselves for the greater mission.

Speaker 58 Absolutely.

Speaker 62 And it's free-flowing as long as everybody understands what the construct is and what the rules are.

Speaker 52 In jazz, you have a basic chord.

Speaker 49 It's the same chord you hear all the time, like G7. Every song has a G7.

Speaker 72 And then there are notes above that where you can extend the harmony.

Speaker 52 And piano players are doing that. And I'm like, why are you doing that?

Speaker 23 He goes, well, man, it's in the harmony.

Speaker 84 He said, but it's not in the song, bro.

Speaker 49 Harmonically, it's correct.

Speaker 69 Musically, that was some dumb shit you just played.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 69 they tend to be pissed off when you say it because they only know how to play one way.

Speaker 17 By the way, now I get why you and Rick Carlisle get along.

Speaker 21 I get it i know enough about rick to know how you guys may be bonding man he's smart as hell and he don't care i love him he's brilliant and he does not care those are the two scouting reports i often get on coach carlisle

Speaker 21 love him

Speaker 49 what kind of a critic are you i'm the worst ask my colleagues they hate when i show up But I've learned to keep my mouth closed.

Speaker 52 So they like me more now. But, you know, they used to come and say, well, what do you think?

Speaker 72 And I'd tell them.

Speaker 59 them, and then they'd be like, man, you're an asshole, get out of here.

Speaker 62 But if you ever went to a string quartet concert and watched, they are making constant communication with one another.

Speaker 69 It's like if you watch the NFL Combine and they say, this guy can run the 40 in 4.2 seconds. That's amazing.

Speaker 33 And his vertical leap is four.

Speaker 58 Can he play football?

Speaker 85 And that's the music thing.

Speaker 72 It's like, man, can you play music?

Speaker 69 It's great that you can play the hell out of the saxophone.

Speaker 62 There's a lot of saxophone players who play saxophone better than me.

Speaker 70 I'm not trying to be humble.

Speaker 67 I know this to be true, but I play music better than them. So

Speaker 58 I win.

Speaker 28 It's part of why Sam Presty is fascinating, because Sam Presty, beyond his discretion and privacy, which is now very well known, I actually am curious as to your read of him as just a guy that you had never met before.

Speaker 49 Sam loves his job, first and foremost.

Speaker 52 He doesn't love what it brings him. He loves that job.

Speaker 85 And the thing I love about him is if you didn't know what he did, you wouldn't know what what he does.

Speaker 52 He wouldn't introduce it.

Speaker 85 He'd never bring it up.

Speaker 84 That's my kind of dude right there.

Speaker 52 They were coming to New Orleans to beat up on my lowly Pelicans.

Speaker 52 The play-by-play announcer, Joel Myers, is a buddy of mine, also a big jazz fan.

Speaker 62 And we spend a lot of time talking about records.

Speaker 72 And we were going to meet for

Speaker 72 dinner. And Sam found out and said, hey, man, I'm coming to dinner with y'all.

Speaker 12 I'm like, wow.

Speaker 85 Don't you have more pressing matters to do, like what you're doing now?

Speaker 72 And, you know, and he was in New Orleans and he came through and it was great.

Speaker 84 And we had a meal and we talked about nothing about basketball.

Speaker 52 And

Speaker 52 there's nothing else to the story.

Speaker 7 What is your scouting report on Sam the musician as you've come to understand it?

Speaker 78 He's never come in and sit in with us.

Speaker 52 So there's no way to judge.

Speaker 69 I mean, I just know he's a big fan of the music.

Speaker 64 I didn't even know he played drums.

Speaker 63 Perfect example. He never brought it up.

Speaker 81 He never brought it up.

Speaker 42 That's wild.

Speaker 84 Had no idea.

Speaker 21 Okay.

Speaker 63 So I'm going to do something,

Speaker 6 Granford, because what I've been doing at the bottom of this rabbit hole, maybe you now know where this is going.

Speaker 4 I don't know yet.

Speaker 49 Okay.

Speaker 83 So I've been scouring the earth and the internet.

Speaker 62 Oh, you found something.

Speaker 7 I just want to play you something.

Speaker 8 Yeah, man.

Speaker 5 And again,

Speaker 33 you're you,

Speaker 43 unvarnished nightmare critic for anyone who sees you in the audience.

Speaker 19 I'm going to play you something.

Speaker 30 And I just like us to both listen and then we can discuss.

Speaker 5 So would you mind?

Speaker 52 No, I would not mind.

Speaker 53 Sam, I'm going to rip you, bro.

Speaker 52 I'm ripping you, man.

Speaker 70 Got to do it.

Speaker 83 So I just need to acknowledge here as a human being who makes things, how absolutely terrifying what I'm about to do must be for Mike Tucker and Matt Morin and Sam Presti and the rappers in that recording studio in New Hampshire in the mid-90s.

Speaker 5 Because asking one of the greatest living musicians to critique the long-forgotten music that you had made before you were legally allowed to rent a car is kind of a nightmare, I must admit.

Speaker 61 Especially if you are an extraordinarily private NBA executive who never wanted anybody to hear this.

Speaker 25 And especially when Branford Marsalis' self-scouting report as a critic, once again,

Speaker 35 is this.

Speaker 49 I'm the worst. Ask my colleagues.

Speaker 85 They hate when I show up.

Speaker 50 But now it is time for Branford Marsalis to find out.

Speaker 13 The album is called Milk Money.

Speaker 50 Sam Presti is the artist, and this is the introductory track.

Speaker 12 Excellent.

Speaker 55 Music transcends race, religion, sex. It transcends all of that.
It's a reflection of the human heart.

Speaker 84 I mean, that was like some buddy rich.

Speaker 79 He was just firing, going all over.

Speaker 21 So he can play.

Speaker 56 If somebody can just type for that for you, you know, say what it means and dig what it means, you'll flip.

Speaker 56 I mean, flip for real.

Speaker 78 Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 57 Yeah, because that's what I tried to do is, you know, because I had all the music in my head that I wanted to do, but I had to track everybody down.

Speaker 57 You know, so the only way I knew how to do it was just get the people that were close to me that I thought could carry out, you know,

Speaker 57 and kind of expand on the things that I was thinking about. So I went and I got Mark Pananski from way back, Dave Wolfberg from way back.

Speaker 5 What's running through your mind?

Speaker 52 Sam understands what the job is and he keeps the beat.

Speaker 4 but there's a few guys that would play that groove and add extra things

Speaker 81 really nerdy extra things like playing

Speaker 52 parts on upbeats or playing against because it calls attention to them in a certain way and all the musicians go woo

Speaker 67 you know so and every time I hear it I'm like why are they doing that just play the gig bro James Blackborough doing some cuts

Speaker 57 Got Matt Beinfrast up from Jersey with his man Islow from Philly to flow over a track that that we did.

Speaker 57 You know, and it's tough because I didn't want to overstep my boundaries because I'm not a hip-hop purist. I'm not a jazz purist.

Speaker 72 It's more R ⁇ B,

Speaker 77 but it has solos and it uses interesting chord structures.

Speaker 52 So it falls more in line with jazz than anything else. But the

Speaker 52 you know, the trumpet player was clearly has been checking out Miles because he has the muted trumpet and he's playing it the way Miles plays it.

Speaker 68 I just love the fact that Sam can keep a groove.

Speaker 72 That sounds like the 90s, the 90s vibe.

Speaker 6 I demanded to mention that you played Saxon Fight the Power.

Speaker 49 Oh, yeah, I was, you know, that was Spike Lee's idea.

Speaker 69 And Spike called me.

Speaker 81 We were neighbors.

Speaker 72 And in Fort Greene?

Speaker 42 Yeah.

Speaker 52 I think the most important part of it for him is that we were friends and neighbors before he became famous.

Speaker 78 And he said, I want you to play on this song with Public Enemy.

Speaker 70 I'm like, you kidding? Okay, great.

Speaker 31 It's going to be great.

Speaker 63 It's going to be great. It's called Fight the Power.

Speaker 9 But it was Spike's idea.

Speaker 7 Man, I got two more tracks to play for you if that's what

Speaker 38 our next track in music class with Branford Marcellus.

Speaker 43 It's titled 16 Baltimore Ave.

Speaker 26 So, Two songs, both by James Brown.

Speaker 79 One is called Cold Sweat, and the other one's called called Super Bad.

Speaker 52 And it's kind of like a mashup of those two.

Speaker 68 The saxophone player was a big fan of Mike Brecker's.

Speaker 12 Michael Brecker was a guy that he used to play that.

Speaker 85 Way too many notes though for that groove.

Speaker 68 And when I first got to New York, I was more of an R ⁇ B player than a jazz player.

Speaker 52 And there's a scale called the pentatonic scale. And that's all I could play was the pentatonic scale.

Speaker 79 And the first thing he played was the pentatonic scale.

Speaker 52 And I went, oh, that's me.

Speaker 22 That's why I laughed.

Speaker 8 You're at the front of the class and this band now looks to you and they say, Professor, what did we just do here? You say.

Speaker 58 I would play records for them.

Speaker 77 They're more efficient ways to do what you're doing.

Speaker 23 And I would certainly play the James Brown records.

Speaker 68 There's an instrumental record that James Brown's band did.

Speaker 77 It was the JBs.

Speaker 52 That was the name of the record, the JBs.

Speaker 84 And they had a song called Pass the Peas on there. It was really great.

Speaker 79 And then there's another record that the trombonist Fred Wesley did called Fred Wesley and the Horny Horns.

Speaker 58 And

Speaker 77 they really do know how to play that style of music and still leave enough space for the music to breathe rather than flood the zone with flurries of 16th notes.

Speaker 77 But the rest of the band was very disciplined.

Speaker 52 I mean, Sam played the parts. He didn't really try to deviate.

Speaker 49 The bass player stayed with it.

Speaker 52 The piano player.

Speaker 78 soloing leaves a little bit to be desired but everybody you know it was man it was good it was good i enjoyed it i got one more track for you all right this one i think you may be familiar with

Speaker 8 so so now i feel

Speaker 38 like a cruel scientist.

Speaker 52 Yeah, I want to know. Yeah, I want to know what you think.

Speaker 85 Let me know what you think.

Speaker 1 I mean, look, so here's what I know, right?

Speaker 83 That's Coltrane. train um

Speaker 35 yes this is a standard this is something that as i listen to it i began to feel bad playing it for branford marcels wow i'm imagining them in the box that i'm in watching your face and i began to just sweat a bit um so because you're also by the way for people who are not familiar of course with what you have also done rearranging that song could you just fill us in i'm demanding that you fill us in on your familiarity with this song.

Speaker 59 Oh, yeah, well, it's a song I wouldn't play, first of all.

Speaker 22 Because

Speaker 33 it's just,

Speaker 22 it's like one of the running jokes we have in the group is that bands that lean towards rock and roll

Speaker 81 or RB,

Speaker 77 every time that they play what is considered a jazz tune,

Speaker 52 it's always in a minor key.

Speaker 81 I don't know why.

Speaker 77 But it's either Mr.

Speaker 49 PC or it's the Miles Davis song, So What?

Speaker 1 What about the drum solo in that one?

Speaker 52 Well, the thing that was most interesting about the drum solo is that that was called, that's a thing we call trading force.

Speaker 62 Like the, because the song is a 12-bar form, I'm trying to simplify it, and it's in four-four.

Speaker 87 So, for you folks out there, if you count one, two, three, four, when you get to the next one, that's a new bar. So, it's one, two, three, four, two,

Speaker 79 three, two, three, four, four.

Speaker 82 And they were playing four-bar phrases. The saxophone play would play for four bars, and then Sam would play for four bars.

Speaker 49 Now, a lot of times, when drummers would play that, they always make this big sample crash on the first beat that the saxophone starts to play again.

Speaker 77 I thought it was really cool that he didn't because the other way is just super cliche to me.

Speaker 77 And it was really cool that he didn't. He just went

Speaker 22 swinging.

Speaker 22 And it's like, oh, that's kind of cool.

Speaker 67 That was a great idea.

Speaker 70 I mean, Sam, go ahead, man.

Speaker 33 We had to think it through.

Speaker 69 But it's good, man. I know he's going to be mad at you for playing this for me.

Speaker 62 It's cool, man.

Speaker 70 I'm going to cop the record. Milk money.

Speaker 67 Milk money?

Speaker 29 Yeah, it's going to.

Speaker 17 I might be the only supplier on the internet at this point, but I'm going to get you that coffee, man.

Speaker 23 Bro, I know you now, so you got to hook me up. It's cool.

Speaker 74 But there is one more aspect near the end here that Branford brought up that I do think is worth mentioning.

Speaker 38 Because a story about an executive's secret former life as a drummer at a liberal arts college also relates to something that Branford and his late father Ellis, the musician who most inspired Branford and his brother Wyndon,

Speaker 71 would talk about a lot.

Speaker 73 And it feels especially relevant today.

Speaker 12 The

Speaker 35 essential destruction

Speaker 86 of the liberal arts college in the United States was one of the worst things that he felt could ever happen because in the 1950s there was no such thing as pre-law.

Speaker 86 So a lot of these lawyers were taking theater and reading Shakespeare. And it brings a whole different side out of you.

Speaker 86 But now it's like, you know, pre-law, law, pre-med, med.

Speaker 86 And then they say, oh, doctors don't really communicate like they like, like they used to.

Speaker 67 Well, they don't learn the stuff that...

Speaker 86 they used to. They don't understand the value of poetry and the value of

Speaker 86 a liberal arts arts education.

Speaker 52 And liberal arts colleges are dwindling everywhere.

Speaker 86 The fact that Sam is an executive and he also had this music career where he was playing music, it's going to make him a better executive. You know, because everything you learn, you carry with you.

Speaker 38 All of which reminds me of something. Something else that Dara, the Thunder Super fan, the crate digger who found this physical used C D and enabled this entire episode, had found out.

Speaker 44 We always say like impress who we trust, right? He makes a trade, he makes a draft pick. We just sort of blindly believe it, even if going into the draft, we had no idea who this guy was.

Speaker 44 But on the same sense, like we don't know who he is as a person.

Speaker 44 Everything he says, it sounds like he's rehearsed it over 20 times. I like this album because it's sort of him personally, to a certain scent.

Speaker 8 Like, yes.

Speaker 44 I hate to say this, but I think like Daryl Maury, if this was him, he'd be like, should I re-release the deluxe edition or something?

Speaker 71 You know what I mean?

Speaker 44 This is some guy that he's been the only constant in this organization, but I don't think I've ever really seen him laugh at anything, you know?

Speaker 73 Yeah, and to be honest, I have no idea how the NBA's executive of the year, one of the best executives in all of sports, is gonna react once he hears this episode that he did not want to exist.

Speaker 66 And I have no idea about that because Sam Presty, as was entirely expected, did decline to comment.

Speaker 35 Which brings our music documentary here back to how we started.

Speaker 11 What'd you find out today, Pablo?

Speaker 9 I would like to tell someone that I know in real life, hey, do you have that sax on you?

Speaker 9 And to immediately be serenaded by.

Speaker 11 All right, well, you asked for it.

Speaker 27 That is so much better than I thought it would be.

Speaker 65 We've turned the tables on Sam Presti now.

Speaker 7 We have scouted the young Sam Presty.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 26 Thank you for doing that, Branford.

Speaker 84 I hope he's not mad at me.

Speaker 67 Well, I hope he's not mad at you, but it was a pleasure to do it.

Speaker 77 It was a pleasure to listen to the music and talk about my man.

Speaker 84 So that's cool.

Speaker 28 Yeah.

Speaker 17 Another line in your bio is that you're now officially a Pablo Torre Finds Out correspondent.

Speaker 5 I see that.

Speaker 84 I drag about.

Speaker 47 And I see that.

Speaker 52 That's the thing.

Speaker 69 I name drop that shit.

Speaker 52 Everything else, nah, but I'd name drop that.

Speaker 11 You've been listening to Pablo Torre Finds Out, a subsidiary of Wide Snacks Jazz Rabbit Hole.

Speaker 18 Wait a minute.

Speaker 11 Brought to you by Metalark Media.

Speaker 8 Oh, there it is.