Does Nikola Jokić Love Horses More Than Basketball?

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

Brushing dingleberries out of a tail.

That's the clinical term.

Yeah, it, you know, made me feel a closeness that I'd never felt for a horse before.

Right after this ad.

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

If you're looking to add something special to your next celebration, try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

This smooth, flavorful cognac is crafted from the finest grapes and aged to perfection, giving you rich notes of oak and caramel with every sip.

Whether you're celebrating a big win or simply enjoying some cocktails with family and friends, Remy Martin 1738 is the perfect spirit to elevate any occasion.

So go ahead, treat yourself to a little luxury, and try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

Learn more at remymartin.com.

Remy Martin Cognac, Feeding Champagne, afforded an alcoholic volume reported by Remy Control, USA Incorporated, New York, New York, 1738, Centaur design.

Please drink responsibly.

So

I,

you know, when I was cleaning the stall, I was stepping in like a lot of fecal matter.

Yeah.

I just like got right into my car and drove like the two hours.

Oh, God.

And

about like five minutes in, I was like, Jesus, what crawled in the car and died?

And it only dawned on me an hour in that, oh, there was like shit all over my boots.

Okay, so we're going to explain that.

We're going to explain how it is that Mickey Duge, my friend, who also happens to be my favorite illustrator, slash documentarian, slash animator hybrid in sports, ended up soiling his Volvo.

Mickey, by the way, is an Emmy-nominated creator of the Netflix series Losers and lots of other cool stuff.

But today, he has just come back from an assignment for me, a reporting assignment for PTFO, and it might be the most absurd assignment we've given to a correspondent to date, which is saying a lot.

But before we get into all of that, I do need you to become familiar with the viral video clip that kind of inspired all of this.

A clip that we here cannot stop thinking about.

Because this video is of Nugget Superstar Nikola Jokic.

One of the most walled-off, press-averse, and seemingly self-loathing celebrities on the planet, insofar as the guy is the best player in the NBA, a two-time MVP, the defending champion, currently facing the Timberwolves in the playoffs, and yet he doesn't seem to like basketball.

What he would rather do, pretty visibly based on this clip, is just be alone, punched atop a tiny cart pulled by this shiny brown horse on a dusty track in Sambor, Serbia, sleeveless, and utterly, confusingly,

serene.

It's a golden age for eccentrics in the NBA, and he's probably the number one.

He bobs and weeps.

He does not let us into

his world.

Or if he does, he gives us little tantalizing scraps here and there.

There's a veil of secrecy, let's say.

Yeah, and he clearly enjoys it.

He clearly, I mean, I should say, I don't even know if he necessarily enjoys it so much as we hate it.

The idea that he's going to win an NBA title

and then say shit like this.

So I'm curious if you're looking forward to a parade coming up in Denver.

Minutes parade?

Thursday.

No.

I need to go home.

How soon till you're back in San Francisco?

I need to.

On Sundays, I have my horse racing in my house.

Horse racing?

I was going to get to that.

The horse racing.

There are two opposing forces in him.

He's one of the toughest, most physically imposing guys in the entire league.

Jokic, that's a slam over James.

Let me just say, too, that he's not your kind of conventional tough guy, muscle-bound at the gym.

Yes, his arms are constantly bleeding as people are trying to like scratch and claw at him.

When I look at Jokic, I see him more as being like kind of like underworld, kind of tough, where I don't know how many dicey situations you've been in, but when like the giant guy with the scars all over his body shows up, like things are about to go down.

And the accent.

Yeah, it's like you're in trouble.

So like you don't want to get on this guy's bad side.

Legitimately one of the most intimidating players in professional sports.

But then there's this other side of him that loves to be around horses.

He's got this total soft side.

And it may sound like we're overstating Jogic's feelings about all of this, but this is what he told his teammate, Michael Porter Jr., on Michael Porter Jr.'s podcast.

After the career is over, how I want to see myself is to be around the family and spend the rest of the day with the horses.

You know,

I have a couple horses outside of Serbia, in Italy, in Sweden, in France.

Go.

maybe race actually that's kind of my secret goal to be a driver like to have fun you know travel the world or Europe and race horses.

That sounds fun.

Come on.

Tells you straight up.

Yeah, but in the meantime, the thing he's using his phone for, he watches horse vids in practice.

Jamal Murray was asking him, like, what are you doing?

No, no, no.

I'm scouting horses.

You're scouting?

How many do you have?

Right now, like seven, eight, oh, ten, twelve.

Like, it's the one thing he wants to talk about, and the one thing he cannot stop talking about.

And it's the only thing he'll also, like, make advertisements about, basically.

Just like, as long as he has a horse in there somewhere, he's like, okay, he'll consider doing it for the American audience.

You sure this is cool?

Relax, and this place is pet-friendly.

There are probably people who don't know about his passion for horses that only see him in ads, and they're like, why the hell is he with a pony?

This is a pony.

There is actually one ad from Serbia

where it's like him riding on this like cart and someone throws him a basketball

and he throws it over his head as if to say in obvious terms, f this.

I'm here for the horse.

I think a normal person might reasonably ask, like, why does this seven-foot-tall underworld character want to be the largest jockey in the world?

Like, why is that

his obsession?

It's not a jockey.

He wants to be a driver, and there's a distinction there.

The sport of harness racing

is very different than thoroughbred racing.

You don't have jockeys.

You have drivers.

You're not racing on thoroughbred horses.

It's a totally different breed.

You're already

betraying your bias here.

You're betraying the reason why you're sitting here, actually, in truth, because you came at me upon my first conversation with you about this with one of the most contrarian takes that I have ever certainly decided to platform on this show.

It is my belief that harness racing is actually hiding in plain sight as being a much more exciting sport than American basketball.

That's stupid.

I want to make this clear for everybody.

You spend months on assignment to try and prove that Jokic is onto something and that you have this unique insight, at least among my friends, as for understanding where and why he wants to go home as soon as he can, as soon as this postseason is over.

Let's do like a little bit of an A-B test.

I thought we would do a very classic thing and go tail of the tape on this.

Great.

We're going to take basketball on one hand and we're going to compare and contrast it with harness racing, better known as chariot racing.

Let's start with the age of the sport, right?

NBA famously did the NBA 75 a couple years ago.

It's 77 years old.

Harness racing descended from chariot racing.

Chariot racing has a 15,000 year history.

I already resent the fact that you've chosen this theme song to be underneath us as you're doing this exercise.

I mean, it does help my point.

So, we're giving the edge to chariot racing.

77 years, these guys are Johnny come lately.

15,000 is a lot.

Okay, so let's move on to iconic venues, right?

In the NBA, we've got the Mecca, Madison Square Coast.

The most famous arena in the world.

So they say, chariot racing raises you and lays down the circus maximus.

Bam.

Let's talk about notable tactics.

Okay, in the NBA, a lot of talk about the triangle offense, the pick and roll.

In chariot racing, we have a couple tactics called tripping it out and one called right in the two-hole, which I'm not exactly sure what that is.

It sounds painful, but what do you think?

Tripping it out feels like

something that you can now only do in certain states legally.

and right in the two-hole feels like

something that I

a less mature version of me would have made a joke about already.

Moving on to famous practitioners okay in the NBA let's just say Michael Jordan very famous globally known chariot racing King Tut

King Tut Michael Jordan

I didn't realize that you were going to be drafting

throughout literally all of time.

So let's call that one a draw.

Let's call that one a draw.

Yeah, what a King Tut ever win.

Moving on to famous fans, okay?

The NBA, famous for Jack Nicholson, sitting front row.

Lakers games.

Chariot racing.

What about Caligula?

What about Nero?

Also, more recently, slightly more recently, Ric Flair.

Huge harness racing fan.

Wow.

I was unaware that Ric Flair was in the company of the guy who fiddled while Rome burned and the guy who f ⁇ ed that horse.

He is indeed.

And

for that reason,

we're going to give the edge to chariot racing.

Yeah, it's a heart,

a hearty woo

in that direction.

Definitely.

So I don't know what the overall score is yet, but I think chariot racing is ahead.

Moving on, best nicknames.

Barkley has one of the greatest for the NBA, The Round Mound of Rebound.

Yes.

Don't know if he ever loved it, but it is truly memorable.

And on the chariot racing side, we've got Money Man.

The Minister of Speed.

Who deserves that?

Okay.

We've got the Bionic Man.

What could possibly warrant being named the Bionic Man if you're a harness racer?

I'm going to give the edge to chariot racing there, too, which is all to say that the comparison and my claim,

it's bigger and better,

not as ridiculous as maybe you originally thought.

Yeah, the only issue with the case you're making so far is that it is currently situated upon the grave of a guy who died in 17 AD.

And so I think we might need to just have you actually bring us some reporting that's a little more present, a little more contemporary.

I can do that.

I can do that.

Thursday night football is back and it's only on Prime Video.

This week, the Washington Commanders take on the Green Bay Packers with both teams determined to prove their worth.

Something's gotta give.

Coverage begins at 7 p.m.

Eastern with football's best party, TNF Tonight, presented by Verizon.

Not a Prime member, not a problem.

Simply sign up for a 30-day free trial.

It's the Commanders and the Packers.

Thursday at 7 p.m.

Eastern only on Prime Video.

Restrictions apply.

See amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details.

So I should say that I've casually looked up harness racing in preparation for our conversation here for you to bring me your findings.

And I wasn't very good.

at finding out even the basics about the sport online.

You should know that harness racing is not really an internet thing.

There's like not really an equivalent of even harness racing Twitter, like NBA Twitter.

So what the f is harness racing?

As it was described to me, harness racing is different from thoroughbred racing in that the horses are actually like of a different breed.

They're standard bred horses rather than thoroughbred horses.

The main difference being that they

run at a different gait.

They don't gallop so much as they trot.

And what that does is it allows them to drag, you know, the cart or like the chariot behind them quickly and effectively.

So the visuals on the chariot, I want to establish here because the driver, the chariot driver,

in your terminology here, is fully horizontal, almost like he's on a medieval rack, being dragged behind a horse whose tail is like flapping over his legs.

Hold on, no, you're looking at this wrong.

Are you sure?

Because he's looking at a horse's actual butt.

As the famous poet Snoop Dogg once said, laid back with my mind on my money and my money on my mind.

What is on my mind as I watch this is, am I going to get horse shit

basically thrown into my face?

Or maybe you're a badass, totally leaned back.

coasting to millions of dollars in victory winnings.

You're the coolest guy out there.

Where is out there?

Where is this taking place?

Harness racing happens around the world.

It is most popular in Europe and in New Zealand.

In the United States, it exists from coast to coast.

It used to be more popular.

When was peak harness racing?

I would say between the 20s and the 40s.

Okay, great.

So really

relevant enterprise.

I asked you to bring me Jokic

to make sense of what he finds interesting in all of these conflicting aspects.

And what was his response?

He said no, Pablo.

He said no many times.

How many times are we talking here?

So I will say that his team and actually the Denver Nuggets were really encouraging of this because,

you know, they think that there's more to learn there as well.

Unfortunately, Nicola disagreed and four times he turned us down.

Sad.

So, yes, I failed you.

I failed myself.

We were ready to blow our budget.

The Pablo Doriweza budget was going to be spent on sending you to Serbia if, in fact, Jokic gave you the green light.

And I really wanted to go, though, because that's where his story began.

You know, as a young boy, his dad took him to the races when he was about 12 or 13 years old, introduced him to the sport.

He fell in love with it so much that he got one of his first jobs as a stable boy tending to the horses.

He went to his dad and said, hey, this is what I want to do with my life.

I really want to go even deeper into this.

And his dad looked at him and he was like, Nicola, you're seven feet tall.

Could we, before you go all in on this, could we at least try to have you play basketball?

We think you could be good at this.

Yeah, good advice.

One of the most charming things about Nicola is that in the last few years, on off days during the NBA schedule when the team is crisscrossing America, he will take a day or a morning and rendezvous with people in the harness racing community at different stables, at different harness racing racetracks.

So we've gotten confirmation that at least two times this season, he's gotten off a plane in the middle of the night.

and gone under cover of darkness to meet up with the bionic man man himself, Tim Tietrich.

Well, I knew he liked horses, and I followed that a little bit.

And it was really cool.

He just kind of reached out and wanted to talk horses.

And he, you know, he didn't know anybody in America that knew anything about horses.

You know, he knew that they had horse racing, but he didn't know anybody.

You know, we got to reach out, and you know, that's kind of how it started.

You should first know that Tim Tietrich is harness racing royalty.

He's won over 13,000 races,

which is like a legendary number.

He has career purse earnings of over $250 million.

Oh my God.

And

he's not the money man.

That's a different guy?

Not the money man.

He's nicknamed the bionic man because this guy is such a badass that he's had to surgically replace through the wear and tear many different parts of his body just so that he could get back in that cart, strap the legs back in, and win thousands more races.

I guess I should be not surprised that the guy who has won 13,000 races while in a torture device has had body parts replaced.

He wouldn't tell me all of the parts that were replaced, but

there weren't a lot.

Yeah, what parts are bionic, Tim?

Just to paint the picture here, because Jokic is famously about seven feet tall, 285-ish.

The bionic man is measuring at what?

He's 5'9, 150.

So

slightly different.

They're like a harness racing version of twins like that old man.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But this Danny DeVito ends up being the guy that Jokic actually is not just enamored with, this is the guy that he'd rather be.

He explicitly said to Tim,

hey man, you've got my dream job.

And when I talked to Tim, he described the first time that they got together, which was at a farm.

We met at one of the local farms there in Mid Jersey.

I said, I'll be here.

And I told him the address and he met us there.

He got out of the, you know, his, not limo, but his car service.

Just Tim, he kept out of the back seat of the car and he had his, you know,

sneakers on and stuff because he didn't really bring the right clothes.

Tim described that he just came out with a sweatshirt and a stocking cap.

He wasn't wearing boots.

He was just wearing sneakers.

And Tim said that he had this like crazy, infectious enthusiasm.

He talked to me like we were been friends for years.

And, you know, he kind of thought I was the king or the champion, you know.

He said, all right, I want to go in the bar and hang out with the horses.

He just wants to get into

the stables.

He's like really, really, really into this.

And Tietrich grew up as a basketball fan.

He grew up in Illinois during like Jordan Pippen era.

And so he's like kind of in awe.

It's kind of funny.

Like, I like to talk about basketball, you know, and because all I do in my life is race horses and talk about horses to my owners and trainers and the fans that want to do it.

It's all about horses.

And for me, when I got with him, I wanted to talk about basketball.

And he's like, no basketball, just horses.

Let me read you a quote from Jokic himself about his love of this world.

Since I started falling in love with the horses, it put me in some other dimension.

and makes me feel some connection and there's not many people around

And you can just relax in the nature and the horses.

I mean, spend a little bit more time in them.

You can find a way to talk to them.

That's what I want to do when I finish my career.

And that's what I want to be around my whole life.

It's a pure love.

End quote.

In that.

poetic language, right, that Jokic used there, this other dimension, this pure love.

I do want a better sense of what that actually looks like.

What did Tim tell you about Jokic's interactions with his surroundings?

Tim didn't use like the exact same poetic language.

Like, we were in the paddock, and we have a grandstand where you can host the people go to watch the races.

He wanted to go to the paddock.

I said, Do you want to go upstairs and set a really nice, you know, box and have dinner and stuff?

He goes, No, I'm here where I want to be.

I'm right down in the slum.

I was kind of surprised.

I'm like, Do you want to go eat dinner and hang out with the big wigs upstairs?

And he goes, No, I'm from down here with you guys.

I want to be with the horses.

I want to smell the horse poop and be around it.

You know, I just want to be in with the horses.

This is a sensory experience for Nicola.

He loves to be there.

He loves to smell it.

He loves to dip his hands, you know, Amali style in the horse feed.

This guy, he's like mind, body, and soul into this.

The one night at Metlands, he went there.

We were there.

He was there by six o'clock an hour before the race is starting.

And we sat around there till 1.30, just hanging out and talking.

All the catch drivers stayed, and there was probably 15 of us that stayed in there.

And he wouldn't leave.

He said, I don't want to leave yet.

Because I said, You know, you've got a game tomorrow in New York.

He goes, I don't care.

I'll be fine.

This is my dream right here.

This is my dream.

And I was having fun.

And, you know, all the guys were great.

We had a few beers and told stories.

And, you know, he was just, he wanted to be one of the guys and didn't want to, he didn't want to be seven foot tall.

He just wanted to hang out with the horse people.

Yeah, this isn't like the Kentucky Derby shit

where you're wearing a fancy suit and you're cheering for your horse and you're surrounded by celebrities.

This feels like actually definitionally the opposite.

We

tend to project our fantasies onto people

like Jokic thinking that, oh, if we had that level of prestige or money or fame, that we would be, I don't know, out on a yacht somewhere or something.

But there is a difference between fame and fulfillment.

And I think for laymen like us, there are probably things that we could point to that are really labor intensive, that give us a feeling of fulfillment too.

I mean, if you're thinking about a live animal too, there's also like a pet component of this too, right?

It's like you have this amazing animal that's really an athlete that you're coaching up that's like winning races.

And

there are many, many levels to why this is super satisfying.

Right.

There's a level in which this is a Pokémon to Nicola Yokic.

See, if that's what's going to engage you with this sport, I'll take it.

Nikolai Jokic just wants to catch them all.

This is beginning to click for me.

So I mentioned that his family has a stable, the Jokic family.

Yes, the brothers, of course, infamous for beating up people.

Most recently, one of them punched a fan in the first round of the postseason.

A TikTok video captioned Jokic Brothers Going Wild appears to show his brothers pushing their way through the crowd.

They exchange some words with a man in a blue shirt before one of the brothers punches the man in the face.

You can see Nicole.

That same family.

Their father has become the head of the Serbian Trotting Association.

So he's really, really involved

in all sorts of stuff,

trotting-related things in Serbia.

All of this sounds very ominous.

He was going to give us an interview, but said that he couldn't participate because he had a cracked kneecap,

which is not something that I've ever heard as an excuse.

But it seems like for this family, there are a lot of cracked things, cracked skulls, cracked kneecaps.

Yeah,

I would ask you how the knee got cracked, but I don't think I want to be legally liable for knowing any of it.

Yeah, I don't think we want to know.

No.

So to recap here,

we didn't get to interview Jokic.

We didn't get to send you to Serbia.

But you have befriended Jokic's best buddy.

And so,

what did you do next?

I had to shovel some shit, Pablo.

Finally.

If you're looking to add something special to your next celebration, try Ramy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

This smooth, flavorful cognac is crafted from the finest grapes and aged to perfection, giving you rich notes of oak and caramel with every sip.

Whether you're celebrating a big win or simply enjoying some cocktails with family and friends, Remy Martin 1738 is the perfect spirit to elevate any occasion.

So go ahead, treat yourself to a little luxury, and try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

Learn more at remymartin.com.

Remy Martin Cognac, feeding champagne at Fortune Alcoholic Volume, reported by Remy Control, USA Incorporated in York, New York, 1738.

Centaur design.

Please drink responsibly.

So, we value journalistic fidelity here on this program, Mickey.

How did you seek to retrace the steps that Nikola Jokic took with Tim Tietrich,

his best buddy in the world of harness racing?

So, we planned an epic day.

We were going to start the day at a horse farm, which was actually the exact same horse farm that Tietrich and Jokic first met at.

This morning we're at Gateway Farms.

This is one of the biggest stables and housing facilities for harness racing racehorses in New Jersey.

We're here being given a backstage pass into

this sport that has enchanted Nicola Jokic.

We're here to discover its secrets.

I really couldn't be more excited even though it's cold, wet, and the air is thick with the smell of horse poop.

Turns out it was the worst possible day to do this.

It's like pouring rain.

How much do you really love this thing?

Is what God is already telling you?

The plan was for me to live out my stable boy fantasy, do

barn chores, do free labor.

That's the weirdest fan fiction imaginable.

And, you know, I was really there to discover the hidden charms of harness racing.

Who was your guide as aspirational stable boy?

So there was a guy there named Kyle who was a horse attendant, and he walked me through the paces.

Here we are.

Hey, Kyle.

Hi, Mickey.

How are you?

Very excited to be here.

Who do we have to work with today?

This is Line'em Up.

She is a six-year-old mare out of betting line, which is where her name comes from.

She started racing as a two-year-old, and so she's raced every year since then.

So the last four years five years this is year five does she win yeah yeah she's got a couple wins on her card she seems very chill she is very chill hopefully talking about winning hopefully she can win today that would be nice

I want to get the full

experience here I want to get like immersed in this so of course if you don't mind I would like the full stable boy experience here.

Yeah, so first we'll get her out.

We'll get her out.

We'll put her in some cross ties and then you can clean your stall.

We'll get you a wheelbarrow and off you go you can back it into the stall don't mind me um

you know cool cool your heels you're you're in good hands

that's a that's a pile right there

it's kind of like a giant litter box you know just thinking about nicola who's obviously one of the richest and most famous athletes in the world i think people get surprised that he would want to come to a stable to do this kind of work there's peace like there's peace in it.

Yeah.

You know, there really is.

I'm not sure I'm feeling it quite yet.

Well, what do you think?

How did Shoreboy do?

I think he did a pretty good job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Solid eight out of 10 for sure.

I'll take it.

We're headed this way.

What happens kind of like the morning of the race to prepare?

One of the big things is making sure they look good when they get to the track.

And that involves brushing.

We start with their mane.

I think she likes it.

Yeah, she does, for sure.

And then once we're done with her mane, we'll move to her tail.

She's not going to kick me.

She's not going to kick you.

No, you don't have to.

Poop and like.

You don't have to worry about that.

And then the last thing we'll do is just brush the rest of her.

So you just kind of start up here and

then brush her all the way down and then go to the same side and do it again.

So that's not a small amount of work to be done.

It takes a lot on race day.

You know, if she wins tonight, I'm going to probably take a little bit of credit.

Of course, as you should.

So good.

Yeah, as you should.

Crossing the finish line.

Yeah, as you should.

He was actually very excited that someone else was going to

brush the horse.

I'm not sure there was a lot of competition for the credential that you got to do this.

Brushing dingleberries out of a tail.

That's the clinical term.

Yeah, it

made me feel a closeness that I'd never felt for a horse before.

They put me to work and they made a man out of me.

I actually pulled out a piece of paper and did something I'm much more comfortable with and did a nice little portrait of our deer line him up, which she stood for and seemed to appreciate based on this footage.

Yeah.

Got the finished drawing here.

What do you think, girl?

You like that?

That's you.

It actually looks like she's looking at it.

I know it does, doesn't it?

You like that?

Yeah.

I'll just leave this here for her.

Leave that there for her.

You can set it right there.

As far as I can tell, it's still hanging there in her stall.

So we bonded.

We bonded.

Aside from drawing her, you know, I gave her some final words of encouragement.

What's the motivational speech post-Stingleberry brushing that

you're giving line them up?

Well, I wanted her to really, you know, give her all, even though it was a really gross day out.

You know, I told her that the cameras were rolling, that we were all, you know, placing heavy wagers on her.

The super boost, the line-em-up super boost.

We were taking full advantage of this.

And the last turn, I want you to really turn it on.

No mercy today.

We're going to win.

And then marched her up onto the

trailer where she was loaded in for the couple hour drive to Poconos Downs.

I think we're set up for victory today.

Let's go.

And so now you're leaving South Jersey for the

mountain range, the glorious mountains that are the Poconos and Pocono Downs.

That's right.

And that voyage, I imagine, is just epic.

As I mentioned to you before, the entire cabin of my beloved Volvo was thick with the smell of horse poop from my boots that I didn't wash off.

So that was the mystery.

Some things you learn the hard way, I guess.

But we get to Pocono Downs.

As we walked up to the grandstand, I was like, oh my god, this is happening.

Still in the cold, still in the rain.

We come to you now from Pocono Downs, aka the Circus Maximus of Pennsylvania.

The grandstand is behind me.

Can't really hear the crowd from here, but we're all really excited to be here to cheer on, line them up.

to Glorious Victory, where she will prove once and for all that harness racing is a better and more exciting sport than basketball.

Seeing the homemade artisanal flag that you brought that says light them up on it getting soaked is

it saddens me, man.

It was a saturated felt.

For sure.

How would you describe the crowd that we're seeing on this video at this point?

I would say that calling it a crowd would be a gross exaggeration.

It really was a ghost town.

There was nobody around.

I think there's one person that

sat one dude with the umbrella who was just kind of doing a thousand mile stare into the mountains.

There were a couple people inside who seemed to be also just gazing with, you know, blank stares at screens of races that were like happening in New Zealand.

And they were, you know, smoking

their cigarettes down to the butts.

And I was just like, man, it is

it is a weird scene uh there was a strange energy i was mostly thinking like where where was everybody

so speaking of everybody where are the people that you're supposed to be interviewing the plan was for us to kind of flank around to the side where there was this like gray concrete building that looked like it had razor wire on it like like a jail And they were like, That's the paddock.

That's where all the action is.

So, you know, just it was kind of like, hey, walk out onto that pier.

Like, where's the bionic man?

Oh, he's, he's in, he's, he's in the, he's in that prison style building.

Yeah, they're just like, just, just keep walking.

And they have me go down there.

And it's in that building that they said, hey, in there, you're going to meet Line'em Up's Trainer.

And that's where

you're going to rendezvous with the Bionic Man.

There are like a million more people in here.

This is where all the action is.

Here we are.

Look at her, ready for racing.

With us here is Jen Bogiorno.

She's the trainer.

of

Line them Up, this beautiful steed that we saw this morning.

And with us also the legendary, globally famous Tim Tietrich, one of the great drivers of all time who will be driving Line Em Up to hopefully victory today.

You know, on paper, she looks like she fits right in here.

She's just one good drive away from happiness.

What's like the plan for victory today, if there is one, given that it's like really sloppy out there, and I don't know.

Seems like it could be a free-for-all.

You know, once the gate opens, a lot of things change.

I like to go in with three or four audibles.

Okay.

No set plans, things that I want to happen, but you know, we want to win, and it's,

you know, I'll park my mom for the right horse.

So I know a lot of horses, they like make a real big kick at the end and have breakaway speed and things like that.

Is there anything that we should look for in line them up that might be like an advantage for her in the right place?

Well, right now she hasn't been finishing as well as I would like her to.

So it's kind of been her weak spot.

She's been getting a little hot.

So, you know,

we made a few minor changes and we're hoping Tim will be able to either have her on the front where she's not getting grabby behind another horse or you know keep her more calm and come from off the pace that way but she actually finished up better last week so I think you know maybe she's getting back to figuring it out a little bit I've never been more invested in a race than I am today I'm like really nervous is there anything like Good luck wise that we should do or like think about as we're like sitting and waiting for the race to go up.

I actually brought you a special horseshoe because in racing we say that horseshoes are good luck charms.

So my gift to you.

I'm going to clutch this very very closely.

Well I can go pick you out one.

Hoping for the best today best of luck and we'll we'll be cheering from the stand.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So we brought a little something for you as like a good luck charm from the Pablo Torre Finds Out team.

Awesome.

It's a little sticker.

Pablo is an insufferably proud alum of Harvard.

So we're just going to stick that on the back here.

Good luck.

A little Ivy League.

Good luck charm.

Never have too much luck.

I figured that out.

That's looking pretty good.

I like it.

And, you know, just in case, got another one as well.

If you can't have too much luck,

can't have too much Harvard either.

There you go.

Love it.

Thank you, man.

I appreciate it.

Go get them.

Thank you.

Yeah.

We couldn't lose Pablo.

Vicky is waving around his felt pennant in his left hand.

In his right hand is the same horseshoe

that he was given.

And I have never felt, I know the Harvard stickers were meant as a joke, but I actually just now feel this in my bones.

Sport is winning you over, Pablo.

I've never been so invested in any animal before.

And I just feel like the two of us, yeah,

there's a Jokic brother dynamic here.

I will fight a fan for this, for this horse.

For line him up, I will do anything.

This is the right kind of energy that led us right into the race.

This Harvard graduate and this Ukrainian illustrator with an impossible-to-pronounce surname are about to kick the s out of you if you dare lay a finger on this horse.

So, just to remind everybody, I believe you spent six months chasing down this story for us.

Yeah.

All of which culminates in what we're about to watch here.

Yeah, as I was sitting there waiting for the 11th race to go off,

which is the one that Line Him Up was in,

I was thinking about the bizarre quality that this sport has, where

for all the expense and labor and prep that goes into it, how it could even exist with like virtually no fans in the stands.

Yeah.

I came to understand that

most of the people watching the race and betting on the race that day were doing so via simulcast from places like New Zealand and Sweden.

So

it was counterintuitive that for a sport that everybody was telling me that its main currency is to be experienced in real life, working with the horses,

smelling the textures of all of this and that.

This dimension is a sensory dimension.

Exactly.

That's really the thing that gets its hooks into you.

That for all of those things,

this sport was essentially just like a TV show that most people were watching from thousands of miles away.

But luckily, that's our comfort zone, baby.

You say there's a weird TV show watched by vague amounts of people in which lots of things are happening that are worth seeing?

That is where Pablo Torre finds out comes in.

I don't know how this race turned out.

We are saving this reveal for right now.

What did you have riding on this personally?

Because of course my ego is fully now invested.

Well, emotionally, I had a lot riding on it, but safe to say that not only me, the entire crew that was there that day got really swept up in things.

So

I would say each and every one of us wagered financially on line him up, which we all saw as a sure thing to win.

We all put our money down and we rocked out.

Yeah, the music, that music.

Now finally deserved.

So Pablo, do you feel your heart fluttering?

I'm already surprised that, okay, there is a truck that like let them sort of off at the same time, so to speak.

All right, forget about that.

Our boy and girl are

with the yellow wheels.

Oh my god.

There we are.

Second place.

Yep.

Charging ahead.

Looking great.

I mean, striding through the mud and the rain.

It's feeling good.

Okay, Forgot the wallet.

A is currently leading the race, and right behind him is our girl.

That's right.

And behind her is Big Big Plants.

So, so, you know, Jen, the trainer, she told me, she was like, all right, this horse

needs to stay up near the front of the pack.

I'm feeling great.

Yes.

So, Forgot the Wallet A,

the green horse here,

is a big favorite, one to five odds on winning this thing.

And line him up with the Harvard Insignia right there,

reflecting the mottled light of the betmohegan.com broadcast upon Pocodon Downs is a 7-2-2 chance.

But look at us.

We're stalking Pablo.

Yes.

Look at this.

Oh my God.

It feels like, look at where the horse is basically

flattering everywhere.

This weird...

This weird horizontal angle never looking

more regal, finally,

aerodynamic.

And you're there watching this.

And how are you feeling as you're watching?

I mean, they're separating.

Well, at this point, I'm thinking Tim's got to make a move.

Yes.

The Bionic Man needs to live up to his name.

Bionic Man's got to do something here.

We heard line em up doesn't really have closing speed, but right.

Come on.

Oh, come on.

Tim.

Oh, God.

No.

No.

It's a photo for the place between Big Big Plans and Line Em Up.

Elysium Sealster was third for God.

The wall at the Aussie does it again in 154 flat.

It's actually hard to relive that.

Second place.

Second place.

That's what we got.

You know, you get swept up in it where, of course,

you want to watch this horse that you cared for be victorious and celebrate with her.

And you also want to kind of

have the labor that went into all of the prep be in some ways paid back to you with like a little bit of positivity.

All those dingleberries.

Yeah.

I wanted some kind of, and not just financial payoff, but some sort of,

you know, feeling that we did something.

Right.

But instead,

feeling like Nikola Jokic ended with a scene that was a lot like the problem we were presented with, which was

a wall.

We're obviously here in America obsessed with results and winning.

I do think that the things that draw him to this sport are these like intangible process things, the sensory things, the journey of the preparation and the teardown, more than the winnings.

For all that we have heard about Nicola and all that I've heard secondhand from people that know him, never has there been a part of his passion that has anything to do with him wanting to make a lot of money in this sport or have his horses be these like,

like, you know, crazy champions.

That is kind of secondary.

So as I sat there with my pocket lightened a little bit after wagering on line him up to win, I just thought like, as much as I'm upset about losing, that that really wasn't the point of this.

If I really wanted to see and kind of embody what it was, what it is that Nicola loves about this sport.

Yeah, I will confess that like the ending of this episode would have been a lot better if Line'em up,

if Line Em Up delivered for us.

But now I, I am, I am sort of just like wrangling with a strange feeling, which is you converted me into somebody who really gave

a significant shit about what was going to happen in this weird sport that I actively thought was terrible.

But now

I got to confess, I still don't feel like Ben Hur.

The scene that you've painted for us leaves you feeling what about

what this sport actually is.

I started this journey really asking the question:

is harness racing a better and more exciting sport than basketball?

Yes.

For all its charm, for all the things about it that are completely unique, I have to say that I don't think that you can really say that with a straight face.

Thank you

for your journalistic integrity.

Listen, I wanted to pressure test that.

And in the end, as I sit here and I think about, oh, this quest to learn to love something

that

probably the greatest basketball player on the planet loves more than anything.

It dawns on me that maybe we were asking the wrong question, that it's not how and why this sport is superior to this other sport that he plays.

We should really be thinking about how this sport that he loves so much

actually helps make him the all-time great that he is.

And how for people who

play in a league like the NBA,

very wildly visible billion-dollar broadcast deals.

Gossip, soap operas,

Instagram stories, right?

Like it truly is the case that the NBA is on one side of the spectrum.

Yes.

And on the other side is the thing we've been talking about now, all episode.

It's probably for someone like Nicola, who has

talked about how harness racing is

something that he does to recharge his batteries, that these things actually exist in harmony with each other

in him.

There's really something there to learn for all of us.

As we see footage of Nicola out in Sambor without a helmet on, you know, with

the tank top, you know, riding on the back of his cart, just looking out into the distance as the birds chirp and the butterflies are fluttering past.

Yes, having that kind of familiar now, sort of like middle distance kind of gaze into nothing.

Yeah, I mean, that looks pretty great.

I would actually bet the farm that Nicola goes whole hog into

the racing world after he hangs up his sneakers and that we'll probably not see very much of this guy.

But even though we aren't going to see him, we should know, Pablo, that somewhere Nicole is out there riding on the back of a cart, just doing laps on a dusty oval somewhere in the Balkans.

And this man is out there as the happiest man on earth.

Mickey Duje, thank you for your reporting.

It was a

genuine sensation, Pablo, in so many ways.

I'll never be the same, actually.

Neither will your car.

You should also be aware, by the way, that Mickey has a new short film titled Confessions of a Jumbotron Addict, which is excellent, premiering at the Tribeca Film Festival next month on June 12th and June 14th.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.

And I'll talk to you next time.