A Sex-Charged Share & Tell with Mina Kimes, Dan the Drivers-Ed Teacher, Pablo... and Papi

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

I don't think a lot of people would think of Quinn Snyder as ugly hot.

I think he's aggressively cocaine-y applier of chapstick hot.

Right after this ad.

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Dan looks like a driver's ed teacher.

Has anyone pointed that out yet?

Look at how you please Mina by coming on the attack.

As soon as we're on,

look at you.

Mina, I don't look like a driver's ed teacher.

I don't know why it is that he, why wouldn't you, why would you support that as a joke?

Is it the glasses or the button down or just the general hairied it's also the sleeves rolled up he's like this is

again this is a tailored italian shirt this is made by massimo drive drivers and teachers are are not getting i don't think for their classes i don't believe they're getting tailored italian shirts

fancy well no i'll tell you the true story actually uh at the end at espn when i knew i was going to be gone uh I had one last clothing allowance.

And so I ran out the door and just got a bunch of shirts I would never otherwise get.

You got a clothing budget in your contract?

Oh, wow, Mina.

Mina, you didn't get one of those.

I remember, Mina at the beginning, Mina was

struggling with the daily labors of you kidding me, I have to produce television clothes every single day.

How the heck did Dan get a clothing budget?

And I have never been offered a clothing budget.

And you just wear, you were wearing like t-shirts on highly.

I don't know what's more shocking that Dan had a contractual clothing budget or that Dan specifically wore clothes that were bought with a clothing budget.

That's right.

Spiteful clothes too.

Like I'm telling you that it was, I was not wearing a t-shirt on highly questionable means.

I was wearing a very nice dress shirt and shorts.

That's right.

And shorts and sneakers.

Yeah, dress shirt and shorts.

yeah yeah yeah he had that closet uh

to the side of the studio where i would constantly walk in on poppy changing shorts

right a shirtless poppy changing

yes yes the wife pleaser as they say yes and i would ask him to stop that and he would refuse to stop that and bomani bought him very nice undershirts he continued to wear the ones stained with yellow from whenever it is that he was wearing them when he ran a factory in highalia 25 years ago what What do you think is in that room now?

That room where that dressing room in that studio used to be in the Cleveland Hotel.

Just a big pile of regret.

All right, let's finally do this.

It's not an intimacy discussion.

It is an article.

It is an article from The Atlantic, and it's the death of the sex scene.

And it is, Jonah Hill is photographed in it, and it is

basically about a scene in the movie that Jonah Hill did you people.

And

there was just no,

the relationship went without very much in the way of courtship into

flossing and an exclusive relationship.

And there was nothing on screen to indicate that there had been any kind of sex scene.

They were able to move all around it,

not necessarily that we were all that interested in a Jonah Hill sex scene, but it did make me think of just the general awkwardness that I myself would feel if you asked me to do anything in the way of this kind of acting in front of people.

I am too repressed to imagine myself being able to do for a fraction of a second a sex scene of any kind, even even playfully, even just like a- Even this conversation is making me uncomfortable.

This hypothesizing.

I couldn't make eye contact with the camera while Dan was talking about himself.

I was looking off.

Okay, but okay, but wait a minute.

Forgive me.

I know I come off as repressed compared to the sexually flamboyant never nudes in front of me that I imagine, that I imagine would just both of them would conquer theatrically a sex scene with great confidence because they are so amazingly and confident and in touch with their sexuality.

Yeah, I want to be clear about this Jonah Hill movie first off.

Like part of the whole like story there is that apparently they like deep faked a kiss.

So the issue was like, these people really have chemistry.

They don't have sex scenes.

They don't to the point where they had to computerize using technology, intimacy in the most innocent way.

But I guess there's a larger thing, Vina, going on here where people are wondering in the age of intimacy coordinators, in the age of power dynamics, in the post, or I guess during Me Too sort of ongoing discussion of like, what should we be doing here?

There's a larger cultural question of like, how important is the sex scene in the first place?

And what are we losing if we lose them for movies as actors?

Like Penn Badgley, by the way, who stars in that Netflix show you, is asking, this is the dude saying, I don't want to do these anymore.

It makes me uncomfortable.

And that is a hot man, like an objectively beautiful man.

No offense, Dan, who's saying that?

So

why would I get offended because you found someone objectively beautiful?

Well, you have the same opinion, and you would seem to have different opinions based on certain external

evaluations.

So I'm going to take offense because you meant to offend me.

And just because you say no offense doesn't mean it's not offensive.

Are you implying that because Dan isn't as hot as Pen Badgley, he should be enthusiastically doing,

open to the idea of doing a sex scene with an actress?

The other way, but I can see the case now that you just made.

yeah yeah

well i think in doing so you um pablo maybe inadvertently hint at um what is potentially problematic about sex scenes which is this idea that uh

men would be eager to do them because uh

they you know would i don't know be titillating to them in some way or give them an opportunity i don't think that's how actors feel about it generally um i found this article interesting because it laid out the date like it had stats for how few sex scenes there are now.

I think it was like fewer than 1% of movies.

I think that's less about,

just as a moviegoer, I think that's less about sexuality being repressed and more about the fact that there just aren't that many romantic movies made anymore.

You don't see that many like romantic comedies and romances.

And that probably has to do more with Hollywood just not catering to women or like.

privileging the female audience and then being surprised when a movie like, I don't know, Barbie or whatever, does extremely well.

But I do think like something is lost because, you know, a lot of my favorite movies and TV shows of all time are ones that depict like realistic, believable chemistry between actors and actresses.

Like, and I think I don't want to watch a deep fake romance scene, sex or otherwise.

Yeah, I was

a point raised, Dan, in this article that I was struck by, and it made sense immediately in a way that's embarrassing for me to now full-throatedly admit to, as it were, is that

pornography is the other way we model this stuff.

Like truly, like the article points out that like, where, where do normal people, where do people in America, at least, learn like what sex is like when it doesn't involve, you know, like first-hand experience, so to speak?

You look at movies and you look at porn.

And if you seed the space to just pornography, then you're getting a version of it that is actually

disturbing and not looking at the money.

Mina, why are you quit?

Why is it going to be a good question?

Because you can't even, because Dan, the second he said the word pornography, Dan's eyes just went, like, just darted off screen and he couldn't make eye contact with you.

I will tell you, this is, well, first of all, he's telling us, he's telling everyone, he's going with the absolute of the way that people learn to have

all sex, yes, is through porn, which I believe is probably a little too absolute and a little too general.

So I couldn't look at the point that he was making.

But also, you have correctly identified that since I was a young man watching movies at the theater with my parents and Urban Cowboy would come on and John Travolta is waking up in bed with two women, I have been uncomfortable with this happening in front of people, like since I was a child.

So the idea of that.

What was he like in that setting, by the way?

What was he like in that setting for you?

My dad is not.

My father and I, the next conversation that my father and I have about any of this will be the first, okay?

One of the places that a boy does not learn about sex is from my father.

I will assure you of that.

But I'm actually,

the thing that we're talking about here, right, is a loss of intimacy.

But the ability of actors to transport me with the intimacy of that, believably, I believe has a degree of difficulty I'm not fundamentally capable of.

I don't believe that I could do what those actors are doing in faking intimacy.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think of the last.

First of all, my experience is identical to Dan's where, I mean, if growing up, watching movies with my parents, if there was ever a sex scene, I just wanted to die and like disappear into the cracks of the couch and never come out because I too am just,

I just don't paralysis.

I recall the paralysis of just like, I don't even,

I just, I wish I wasn't here, is the main feeling I remember.

But even, and maybe this is a level of repression or something, I probably shouldn't reveal this, but my, even now, as an adult, if there's like a

sex scene, my husband thinks it's really funny to just make very direct eye contact with people.

Because he knows I can't take it.

That is funny.

Dad wrecks him up.

But there was a movie.

So look, as this crowd.

He'll crawl a hand onto my shoulder.

Sorry.

Oh,

God.

Yeah.

Sorry, Pablo.

No, no, no, no.

I was just thinking of like, what's the last sex scene that I came upon?

And not that way.

Don't do that.

I'm not trying to.

It's just happening.

The last sex scene that I saw watching a movie

where I was like,

this is just, it's too much.

Dan, can't pop.

That's too much.

Dan, look at Paul.

I want you to make direct eye contact with him.

I'm going to

run a bunch of fingers up his shoulders.

Okay.

Okay, now it's too much.

Let's go.

No, no, unbreaking eye contact, Dan.

Eyes up.

All three of us, we are staring adultly talking about the sex scene in Oppenheimer.

That's the sex scene that most

brings to mind.

Wait, how would you describe it?

Me to describe it for people who haven't.

Did you see Oppenheimer just before?

No, I'm sure I haven't seen it.

I have not seen Oppenheimer, so tell me about the sex screen.

This is not a spoiler.

If you're listening, this is not going to ruin Oppenheimer for you.

I saw this part before I fell asleep at about the 45-minute mark.

So what happens to the first 45-minute movie?

And Pablo, no,

you cannot punt the description onto me.

You brought this.

You have to bear it.

So Oppenheimer,

among other things, like inventing the greatest weapon in human history, was also super horny, right?

So he is in this scene.

He is having a dalliance, a dalliance.

He is having sex with Florence Pugh's character, I believe, who is not his wife.

And she is like remarking upon the library or the bookshelves in the room.

And

it's just one of the most ridiculous sequences where she asks him to like quote one of the books that she sees.

She's on top of him, right?

She's on top of him.

And he says, as per quoting this tome, I am become death, destroyer of worlds.

And then I presume ejaculates at some points shortly thereafter.

So that's one of those scenes where you're like, oh, Christopher Nolan, who notably had never included a sex scene in a movie before, has this, it was the first time for him.

has this scene and it is the remote it's just the most ridiculous sex scene i think i've seen in uh my, I guess, living memory.

I don't remember it.

She's turned on by Oppenheimer's intellect and ego.

Yeah, definitely a real thing that happens all the time and not a fantasy of men who write and direct movies.

Oh, God.

The worst I had seen recently, I was thinking about this when you said this article, was The Idol, which I don't know if either of you actually watched.

I saw episode one.

HBO.

I saw episode one and loudly, loudly cackled as soon as the credits hit it.

The biggest criticism of that show

I thought that I read was how

over the top all of the sex stuff was.

That is not the worst part of the show.

The worst part of the show is the writing, acting, plotting, and pretty much every aspect of the show.

But yes, the sex is super gross and weirdly written.

And there's a scene with the weekend and the star who's Lily Rose Depp.

It's a sex scene where he's like talking to her and just directing her to like touch herself and whatnot that honestly, I was watching this maybe like eight months pregnant and I was like, thinking to myself, I'm so glad my child isn't alive to see this yet or like out in the world.

And I hope he's not taking any of it in.

All of this whatnot would be very scarring.

Yes.

The whatnot would be a lie.

What is this earth I am bringing this child into that this is what the creativity of the weekend births when he arrives at total artistic freedom?

What is a good sex scene?

Like what is one that

I look at is, yeah.

I did some research for this.

I had never seen the movie Atonement.

Okay.

Kieran Knightley, James McAvoy, British, classy.

There's a literal library.

They're standing up.

It's beautifully lit.

It is,

it's almost like there are these like objects, the library ladder is like in the way of some stuff.

That like feels like,

yeah, like classic.

I'd be close to okay if a parent was in the room.

Like this feels sweet.

And what's the difference?

Well, but what, so you're going for sweet as opposed to like one of the more famous ones.

This is ancient.

It's fossilized, but it's early Mickey Rourke, nine and a half weeks.

It's the floor of a kitchen floor, you know, which I...

I think I can say, outside of the general

thought of most kitchen floors, is a place that I I will never want to have sex under any circumstances,

but,

you know,

to each his and her.

But if there's some crumbs.

That's precisely.

I mean, I really don't.

I really don't want any of that.

I don't want a dirty crumb.

I just like how Mina was like, I know there's a joke here because it's Dan saying this.

I know.

All I got is that whatever there's no joke.

I know, just a fat joke, yes.

Well, if you make it, sure, now if you make it food sex, and I can have a little bit of a muffin from the night before that I tried to snarf at the fridge door, then all of a sudden, yes, obviously you've titillated me at the heist of

you know who I thought had fantastic chemistry and something we watched recently, Mr.

and Mrs.

Smith,

Donald Glover, and Maya Erskine, who

I do not think looks like me at all, but people keep telling me.

Many, many, many disagree.

I text to do that.

But don't you watch the series, didn't you think that they had great sexual chemistry?

Yes.

Yes, I did.

And that felt like, by the way, rom-comie action movie, plausible, but also, you know, like a plot point, like a meaningful plot point that advanced the understanding that we have of the characters.

The other great sex scene I saw recently was an Apple TV show.

And I have a clip if you guys want to see it, actually.

So they stayed together and in the coming weeks they mate frequently

Eventually she'll lay up to fifteen eggs

My favorite part was the was the classy palm frond that's blocking us from dinosaur piece

that was good tastefully done by Attenborough

It looked like she enjoyed it.

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This smooth, flavorful cognac is crafted from the finest grapes and aged to perfection, giving you rich notes of oak and caramel with every sip.

Whether you're celebrating a big win or simply enjoying some cocktails with family and friends, Remy Martin 1738 is the perfect spirit to elevate any occasion.

So go ahead, treat yourself to a little luxury, and try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

Learn more at remymartin.com.

Remy Martin Cognac, Veeen Champain, a 14 alcoholic, volume 40 by Remy Control, USA, Incorporated, New York, New York, 1738, Centaur Design.

Please drink responsibly.

I'm really interested in hearing what you guys think about this.

I sent you an article.

There's been a bunch of articles about Mr.

Beast.

The one I sent you was in Fox, Washington Post, a big article recently.

Times has written about him, I won't say a few months ago.

And the general gist of all of these articles is authors, many of whom are like our age, right?

Geriatric millennials or older, who are basically like, what the F?

Why is this so popular?

I don't understand.

So for those who don't know, Mr.

Beast is, I think, the most popular YouTube creator, unless I'm missing

up there.

And he's built this very huge and successful business out of it.

He has 500 employees, 300 of whom work on the YouTube videos.

They are

really oriented around stunts, I think.

They're very expensive to make

videos where he does like, I think his first one was give a, or first big hit was give a random homeless man $10,000.

It's a series where I just, you know, be nice and just give people some help so uh if you want to take it it's about ten thousand dollars he's done like squid games and so these things cost millions of dollars but then he makes millions of dollars off of them uh so the

what i find interesting about this is there's two things that i think are interesting one the notion that this is just what is successful on this platform that we're all trying to figure out and then the we're all trying to figure out side of it.

So there's the consumer side of it, which I think is interesting.

And then there's the producer side of it, because all three of us

make things for YouTube.

This lives on YouTube.

Dan's shows on YouTube.

My show's on YouTube.

And I think we're all kind of navigating how to do it, whether to do it, like what to get out of it.

And I know that's something I think about a lot.

So I find the Mr.

Beast story really fascinating.

No, the number on dollars that he's spending, it's between three and five million dollars

a YouTube video, which is, and I just want to quote this here, Dan, roughly the same cost per video as any episode from the first five seasons of Game of Thrones.

Right.

So this is, so what we're watching is a guy who became like, who bootstrapped a YouTube channel doing stunts because he had an understanding of like, how can I compel young people to be interested in something?

And he developed this strategy that everybody, us, all of us, we are creators, by the way.

We're not just media people.

We're creators.

It's funny when people say on like comments on my YouTube YouTube channel, one of my favorite creators, which is just like a term I'd never thought of before, but like Mr.

Beast embodies.

Well, thank you to all of the commenters on my YouTube channel.

But what he has created is this whole school of something called retention editing.

And this is the term that has been haunting me, that I am fascinated by while it's haunted me, because there are all these tutorials about how can we retain attention like Mr.

Beast, who has figured it out better than everybody else.

And so there are tutorial videos, like these whole attempts at decoding what he does that works.

And what he did essentially as his style to start, and what he pioneered was his idea of like loud sound effects, fast cuts, flashing lights, like zero pauses.

And all of this is sort of embodied even as he tries to move away from it and does his own like attempt at being Christopher Nolan auteur style stuff.

Because this is another video that he claims is now slowed down and paced much more normally like a piece of cinema.

And it's this one.

We just got dropped off in the middle of an abandoned city and we're going to spend the next seven days here.

And there goes our only way out.

We are now stranded for the next seven days.

Are we doing this?

For content.

So in that, you're like, okay.

And I watched the rest of it just to see what was there.

But the point is that that is budget.

That is retention editing.

That is somebody trying to hook you and never let go.

And he is better than anybody else at hooking you, Dan.

Hooking Hooking young people, at least.

Well, let me ask.

Just keeping them.

Let me ask you some questions because I remember the first time I ended up being fascinated about something along these lines.

I think it was a Malcolm Gladwell book where I was learning for the first time that blues clues was not just some arbitrary thing that somehow...

by happenstance, lured your child into an addiction to the television.

It was all very formulaically orchestrated in order to be able to addict that young person to something like blues clues.

This is a natural evolution of something like that because the thing that made me both feel outside of the demo and worry for the future of the demo is that this person has some of the gifts needed in order to ensnare young people in a way that allows him to, you, those numbers you guys gave are crazy.

The idea that he's got 300 to 500 employees, that each video costs as much as one episode of game of thrones from the first five seasons this is an orchestra orchestrated highly calculated way that this person has figured out over the last 15 years to maximize what is now his identity which is i'm this person that continues pushing the envelope on what evolution is to addict more and more young people.

Jake Paul and Logan Paul got into this business.

They weren't able to do the upkeep of it.

They've got plenty of fame, but they don't have the same growing popularity and stickiness that Mr.

Beast has.

He has a set of things that makes me feel like when I'm playing that damn royal match game on my iPad where I'm clearly addicted from the people who have made that game.

They've made me addicted to a stupid royal match game where I simply cannot stop playing because they figured out how it is to trick a personality like mine.

What is the royal match?

I don't even want to talk about it.

I don't even want to talk about it.

I'm so embarrassed by it.

I'm so embarrassed by it.

It's like a candy crush.

It's kind of like that.

It's embarrassing.

I'm ashamed to admit it, but Mr.

Beast has figured out.

Look, I don't know if you guys feel this.

I talked about this with Stugats the other day.

There's a certain film I have sometimes after watching YouTube where I feel like I've been manipulated down a rabbit hole of my interests.

But that's, Mina, I guess the point is that in this era of everyone chasing audience on YouTube, everyone trying to please an algorithm that is sorting us into various sorts of videos and creators and all of that, there's this thing that's been happening that's fascinating to me.

And I keep on saying that word, but I truly feel this way.

The promise of the internet.

was that it's an infinite universe of different characters and styles and creators and points of origin.

And what we're getting is everyone trying to imitate the most popular person because they figured out something.

And I talk about this with my friend, Wyatt Sinak, all the time.

The internet now is just so much more homogeneous than anybody thought it would be.

We're all trying to be the same thing in this place of infinite possibility.

When you're in the business now of making things as we all are, I'm really trying not to call myself a creator, by the way.

A decision you have to make is, are we going to, in our business, talk about topics that we know are the ones that are doing well on these sorts of platforms that everybody wants to, and I think there's, it can be a little bit excessive to say,

this is totally different from the past.

Like

ESPN, we always talk about the Cowboys.

That's not new.

Right.

And

for similar reasons, which is if you dug into the numbers, you saw that's what people wanted to hear about.

The ratings are great.

The audience is huge.

So this is not that different from that, except for, I I think it's ruling everything

because we are all living in the same space or rather we're working on the same platforms.

We are

reliant on the same set of pipes.

And when that happens, you end up with every creator, every podcaster, every video maker, every whatever writer talking about the same shit.

Yeah, I think the big difference is simply in how strategic and engineered,

even the format, even the graphics, all of it is to keep attention.

So Mina's right insofar as like since the dawn of time, this was the criticism of old media was that, yeah, back then you were just trying to please an editor or a publisher or a corporate, no-name, faceless guy.

He was saying, America needs to know about this.

But now what we're doing is we're trying, and they don't give you the rules of the game.

And so you have to decode it.

And so you use people who figured it out the best.

And what you're doing is seeing people who are saying, okay, look, this is a psychology question.

It's not a content question.

It's not about how good you are at telling a story.

It's not how good you are at the opinion you have and delivering that.

It's okay.

The human brain needs to be convinced to keep watching at every second intervals.

Like literally on TikTok, there's a line here that I read how TikTok has trained users to scroll away if they aren't hooked within the first half second.

And so the flashing lights, the fast editing style, these apps that are now trying to replicate Mr.

Beast, it's about seeing the human brain as a lab rat to be manipulated.

And of course, that's existed by degrees, but this is just so much beyond what we dreamed it would be.

But Mina, it's not just that, right?

I've learned since having to pay attention to some of this stuff now.

The people who are doing this well have armies of

people working on how to do that.

How do they figure out how to ensnare the currency of the day, which is how do I get your attention?

Because once I have your attention, I can have the tentacles in the algorithm that keep your attention as long as I continue to produce good content because the machine works with me to addict you.

Well, this is why it's fascinating to monitor the burnout rates and the regrets of YouTubers who have won the game, so to speak, right?

Mr.

Beast's life didn't feel happy to me, incidentally.

Like

it felt lonely to me reading all that stuff you sent on Mr.

Beast to be this craven in pursuit of this.

Well, I think he's grown introspective over time about the way that he has basically inspired a template for how to make things online.

And so all of these old and young are trying to be him.

And he's saying now, like that clip I showed from before, like that's him.

slowing things down.

He's been tweeting about how we can still get audience if we change our techniques and we don't do all the flashing lights, fast cuts, screaming at you, literally screaming at you from second number one.

And so he is trying to like pivot to like, it's funny, right?

I can imagine all these people have grown tired.

None of them seem happy because of the burnout rate of like just churning content over and over again.

And then you have the guy saying, look, I know everyone wants to be me, but I don't even want to be me the way I used to anymore because that feels like I'm overdosing on candy.

And that to me is a giant red flag as to like where this is all headed from a sustainability perspective.

Yeah.

All of these YouTube stars pivot at some point to something else because of that.

I think about like, what's her, Emma Chamberlain?

I remember reading an interview with her about it.

And she spoke, she was this very extremely successful and popular YouTuber who then turned became more of a podcaster fashion person who has coffee.

I think Mr.

Beast also is a food purveyor.

Selling candy.

Mr.

Beast literally sells candy now, by the way, feastables.

The pressure of

continuously like

getting numbers and making these things and making, and they're long.

And I mean, I'm just reading this list of the videos, Beast, Mr.

Beast, I can't believe I'm calling this human, Mr.

Beast.

Donaldson is his name.

Anyways, that he's made.

Dan, which of these would you be willing to do for youtube.com slash Levatard show?

50 hours buried alive.

Oh, God, no.

50 hours in Antarctica.

24 hours trapped in ice.

30 days without food.

I don't know how that one worked.

Seven days alone in a padded room, or a week on a small raft, or paying a bounty hunter to hunt you.

I

think

that I had the largest recoil in order.

Buried alive was the largest one.

But same.

But no one.

But

I might surprise you with second because my second on no way I would do that.

A week on a raft?

A week on a raft.

I'd rather be in a padded room.

The question would be: in the padded room, does Dan still get to play

Royal Match, which I had the people behind the glass look up, and it's apparently a game that looks like this.

Yeah, I'm embarrassed.

I'm embarrassed by this.

And it's

a Turkish company.

They kept giving me these ads.

Look, Valerie,

look, I'm glad you put that up there because Valerie will walk by me and derisively say, Are you pleasing your king?

And also,

is it intentional that the king kind of looks like Dan if he grew a beard?

I am.

Well, I have a beard.

It's if I grew a big white,

fuller, white, fuller beard that does not look anything like me.

The fact that he placed it on his iPad makes it so.

I can't believe I admitted that.

I cannot believe that I shared that vulnerability with anybody.

That was just for me and Valerie.

Oh, God.

Thank you, Your Highness.

All right.

So speaking of faces,

the story I brought today is actually a series of stories that I've noticed over the years.

Because

there is a thing that I have now just called beauty analytics.

And I say that because every year you see stories about like this celebrity, according to science, has the most beautiful face on earth.

That dude from Bridgerton, Reggae John, something, something, that guy.

Show with many sex scenes, by the way.

Yes.

Should have mentioned that.

Yeah.

Sorry.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

That guy.

She said that really.

She said that was very, he was perfect.

He was viewed as the most physically perfect facial male, correct?

Reggae Jean Page is officially a smoke show.

Bridgerton alum deemed practically perfect by science, according to People magazine.

And then in 2022,

there are just a million headlines like this.

They're just all clickbait about like science says that this is what beauty looks like.

And like Amber Heard was the person in 2022.

And then you look into this and you're like, oh, like the main source on all of this stuff is a plastic surgeon.

And it's this guy.

What is the definition of beauty?

Now we all know a beautiful face when we see it.

But how do we actually evaluate that?

Well, we took the golden ratio and we used it to analyze the human face and create an objective measure of beauty.

The golden ratio, also known as phi, is a mathematical number, 1.618.

It is a proportion.

Now there are 12 key features that we could identify that we can measure in the human face and we can equate each of these to the golden ratio and this can give us an objective score.

It's Dr.

Julian Da Silva and his whole thing is there's a golden ratio.

Are you guys familiar with the golden ratio as a concept?

Only now because you sent us this story on how it is your face is supposed to be proportioned.

Right.

So mathematically, I guess the Fibonacci sequence has blah, blah, blah numbers, which you got to know is this.

In the golden ratio, there's this thing, a secret formula that is alleged where there's this number, 1.618, having to do with proportion, that your face should be balanced in such a way.

And so, yeah, this guy is like the Kurt Goldsbury of beauty.

He's like, like, I've mapped the human face.

Here are the zones you got to get better at.

Here's all this stuff.

And of course, he's a plastic surgeon.

But the idea that there's just analytics behind this has led to all sorts of things, including the ability for all of us to test ourselves and our beauty according to the math of the golden ratio, which I want to do with you guys.

But, Mina, when I say all of this to you, your reaction to this is fundamentally what?

I think there's a pretty strong like incel component to all of this that I've

just to say that's the only people I've seen on the internet talking about it are yes

men who use it to

on attractive women to mean as credit Dan the website in question the URL is

www.incel.tech

and is it a joke is it not a joke I it's I'm leaning towards this is unfortunately disturbingly real

but you take a photo of your face and you submit it.

And so what I had Cortez do, because I don't want any of us to just pick our best photos, I had Cortez submit our official headshots to this thing.

I had no control over this.

Oh, wow.

This is what Cortez did.

And so this actually is the Dan that we got.

If we can play.

Let's see it.

So that's the, again, at the Clevelander desk.

Highly questionable.

You can see the squares, the arrows, just mapping Dan's face.

And the results

are, yeah.

So you get like dad,

three perfect, three perfects, three perfects.

So Dan is perfect on uh, Dan.

Can you see that?

Horrible, yeah.

There's a because they do a horrible, and you didn't get any horrible.

Noticeably close together eyes.

It does horrible.

It puts horrible as an adjective.

There are some horrible scores.

Yeah.

That's the worst possible score.

So it's a chart with like 11 different criteria.

It's mid-face ratio.

Dan has a noticeably long mid-face, a 0.96, which is short of the ideal, which is 1 to 1.05.

It's like looking at like looking at a second spectrum chart or like whatever you, you know, whatever advanced football analytics thing you get.

Like you get all this broken down.

And Dan, it turns out,

his canthel tilt is perfect.

Just like green font, perfect canthel tilt.

What's a canthel tilt?

Hold on.

It's how your eyes are, I think,

because I also have the perfect eye-to-mouth angle.

Perfect.

Yeah, so canthil tilt refers to the angle or slant of the outer corners of the eyes in relation to the horizontal plane of the face.

So Dan Labetard is a specimen when it comes to the...

This is a big upset.

This is a big upset.

I think science has proven that while not perfect, while clearly not perfect, clearly not horrible.

Well, I wish there was like a total score here because that just was like on a scale of one through 10.

Well, how did you do, Mina, Miss Beauty, Miss Perfect Face?

All right, this is

Mina's headshot.

Which headshot do you guys use?

Processed.

Cortez picked these.

These are just like off of

ESPN, I guess.

It's kind of old, but you know, it's cool.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

And Mina scores.

Oh, look at all those perfects.

Jesus.

So here's the thing.

Mina, if you want to assess your own score here, there's a lot of horrible.

I got a horrible.

But Mina perfect on facial width to height ratio, chin to

filtrum ratio.

I love that.

And hilt.

I'm delighted.

I did not think I'd be this delightful.

Wait, is my

horrible lower third height?

Does that mean I have a weak chin, basically?

It says you have horribly short lower third.

Yeah, yeah.

So the lower third of your face is.

Yeah, you have a short, you have a short chin.

Less than perfect.

4.06.

It's two-thirds of your face is perfect, and the lower third of your face is horrible.

So I got five perfects and one horrible.

You have noticeably uneven lips, according to Richard.

You also have a noticeably long mid-face.

I like that.

I like this informing the replies that Mina might get on Twitter.

Significantly too narrow jaw and too close together eyes.

I think this, I mean, that one's kind of rich.

It feels racist.

All right, Dan.

Pablo, let's see what Pablo got with the.

All right.

Okay.

I hate this headshot of me.

I hate that Cortez chose it.

I dislike it as a principle.

This hair.

And Mina's.

The hair is not even studied very well.

It's too vertical.

I'm looking

this guy on a bus unsuccessfully selling real estate

on either a bus seat.

Oh, God.

He's the junior partner at the law firm who just stays way too long at the Christmas party.

That's the vibe I'm getting.

I have this is supposed to be tied.

There's a lot of perfects to it.

Tied and perfects.

I don't like that.

I like how Mina is all.

Mina's like, I wish there was an overall score.

And instead of which, she's just tracking how many perfects we all have.

And she's like, immediately.

And I finished last place in the perfects.

I was feeling good when I came out of the box.

But my chin to filtrum ratio, I have an extremely short filtrum.

I'm going to look up what filtrum is because I don't really.

It's the vertical groove between the base of the nose and the border of the upper lip.

Anyway, all of which is to say that this thing has the the ability to, yeah, assess beauty and grade us in ways that

science allegedly claims.

While you were doing this, I uploaded the most beautiful person I could think of on short notice, who is Margot Robbie, who is maybe in my mind because I was talking about Barbie, and we all outscored her.

Wow.

Which suggests maybe that

the tool is not quite not to insinuate that Margo Robbie is hotter than yeah what's her filtrum like though you know it's extremely short according to this yeah extremely short eyes horribly wide apart horribly wide apart are you familiar with the term ugly hot Dan I am not

it's a term that people use to describe people who like maybe aren't

attractive to everyone, but are attractive to them.

And, or like, there's just something about their face that you find really appealing, even though they're not like, I think I would not put Angelia Jolie in this category, or certainly not Margo Ravi.

But we all have our peccadillos.

I'll throw out one that Pablo is aware of.

Quinn Snyder, man.

Oh, God.

So I was going to go, so okay.

So I was going to go like, yeah, Adam Driver.

Adam Driver's ugly.

Hot boats.

Adam Driver's a great example.

But no, let's not move off of Mina's example because I'm on a group chat with Mina and she keeps on making the case.

It's again, it's the one with Mia and Mike Scher and Alan Yang.

And it's Mina just arguing

to us dudes that Quinn Snyder actually.

Can we just, we'll put this photo up, but Quinn Snyder, who looks like put a good photo of him.

Quinn Snyder has some of the same architecture.

uh that her husband has i believe i i sort of he doesn't have the slicked hair but he he has nick does not have the slicked hair of a uh frazzled detective in a batman movie like no i don't think i don't think a lot of people would think of quinn snyder as ugly hot i think he's aggressively cocainey applier of chapstick hot um like but i i don't think i think i think a lot of people would look at quinn snyder and sort of understand the charm well wait a minute the jazz did that to him this is an older version of quinn snyder who's sort of been he's been eaten up by my millionaires he doesn't understand who don't want to play the game that he wants to.

And he that's coaching gobert for four years when Donovan Mitchell doesn't like him.

He's just saying

feels good to me.

He had the Sally Jesse Raphael glasses on.

I don't think that

looks like

that doesn't look like Nick 15

years.

Nick 15 years from now.

Nick 10 years from now.

He doesn't have to be a son of a man.

It looks like he's willing to be about to strangle someone with his hands.

That person can be me.

Okay, who are your guys?

Dan, if you thought the sex scene talk made Dan uncomfortable

for you saying Quinn Snyder strangle me.

This episode ending with you aggressively telling Quinn Snyder to strangle you.

On that note, let's call my father and have you talk to him and let's break to him.

I want to ask him whether he knows that

he was taking his shirt off behind Mina and that he knew that Mina was looking into a mirror when she was getting ready.

Boppy!

Hey!

How are you?

Hello.

Hello, Boppy.

Thank you.

What do you need?

Mina wants to say hello to you, and we want to ask you a couple of questions to see what you remember about Highly Questionable and how it is that you would get dressed for the show.

Are you ready for Mina's questions?

Yeah, yeah, sure.

I'm ready.

How are you?

Hi.

I miss you, Poppy.

I think Dan is the one who's going to be asking the questions.

Okay, that's it.

Mina's sitting this out.

All right, Poppy, I will ask the question.

She tossed that right back at me.

So the question is the following, Poppy.

When you were getting ready for the show and and you would take your shirt off and Mina was in makeup, were you aware in any way that Mina could tell from the mirror

in front of her that

you were taking your shirt off in public and that people could see your hairy belly?

No, I was unaware of that.

You know, I'm very sensitive to my privacy.

So if I had not that, I'd probably have gone someplace else.

Poppy, would you like to file any sort of toxic workplace or sexual harassment claim against Mina because

because she was clearly peering at you through a mirror when you were not expecting to be seen.

She was taking a free ride, you know what I mean?

That didn't come

very cheap, you know.

I gotta jump in here.

I gotta jump in here.

Uh, Poppy, you say you're sensitive to your privacy, but I can count the number of times you took your shirt off at highly questionable.

And I think it's over 10 at least.

At least 10?

Gee, I thought that was much, much bigger than that, the number, but that's okay.

I never keep track of that stuff.

Mina got a free ride.

Most people have to pay for it.

She got a free ride.

That's right.

All right, Poppy.

Good catching up with you.

One last question on the way out.

Would you let Quinn Snyder choke you for pleasure?

Well, I don't want to get into that.

He choked me for pleasure.

I don't know, but I'm an old guy, buddy.

God.

So Dan got up.

I guess at the very end here, I should say what I found out today.

What I found out today, Mina, is that in a world of great change and uncertainty, various technologies, various incentives are trying to make us all the same.

This is the story of Mr.

Beast.

This is the story of facial analytics.

This is the story of sex seeds.

We are led to be molded by the same thing, free of all of these other

disruptions and peccadillos, as you called it before.

And

also, I learned that the three of us cannot maintain eye contact when talking about sex for more than three seconds.

I found out

that

Dan is going to get scammed any day.

Now, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

If you are a scammer and you listen to this podcast, I would target him.

Yeah,

I did not know know that I, before coming to this microphone, would share that with anybody publicly.

So

you forced something out of me.

I learned something about myself today that

I was willing to share a private shame so that Pablo Torre can find out.

What I found out is that my boss

is trying to please a virtual king.

But Mina was leering at a real one.

But as for the people who prevent me from being scammed every day of my life, Pablo Torre finds out happens to be produced by Michael Antonucci, Ryan Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rachel Miller-Howard, Ethan Schreier, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Chris Tumanello, and Juliet Warren.

Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our post-production by NGW Post, our theme song by John Bravo.

We'll be back on Tuesday.

Thank you for listening.