Inside the Forbidden Love of Michael Jordan's Son and Scottie Pippen's Ex-Wife

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

I don't have a problem telling someone a f to their face.

Right after this ad.

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Okay, so this episode is going to be

different from the episodes that you might be used to, and I do need to explain why.

There is one specific story that pretty much everybody in my life who is not a die-hard sports fan has been totally obsessed with and asking me about and asking and asking to the point where I became obsessed with it and I started asking other people about it too.

But the whole thing here for me, I must admit, as a journalist, is that it's a little shameful because this story, the story I've been quietly probing for a while now, is all about the romance between Larsa Pippen, a real housewife of Miami who was married to Scottie Pippen for 24 years until December 2021,

and Marcus Jordan, who just so happens to be Michael Jordan's kid.

And so Larsa, age 49, and Marcus, age 32,

they now say a wedding is in the works.

What's the possibility of a marriage happening between you and Larsa?

We're looking for a location.

So, Marcus and Larsa were leaving Jones in Weehoe, and the cameras asked them, like, hey, do you guys have a date?

It's in the work.

Oh, my God.

Which, you know, fair reaction.

Because the other important bit of context here, obviously, is that Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen are the most famous and most successful duo in sports history and also maybe human history.

Now that I think about it, everybody knows this story, right?

The greatest superstar ever, the greatest sidekick ever, combining to be not just first ballot hall of famers, but six-time champions with the Chicago Bulls, the greatest team ever.

As chronicled in The Last Dance, you know, ESPN's massively popular documentary from 2020, a documentary that Scotty hated, by the way, as this excerpt from the autobiography he published after The Last Dance came out made extremely clear.

I was nothing more than a prop, his best teammate of all time.

He called me.

He couldn't have been more condescending if he tried.

Each episode was the same.

Michael on a pedestal, his teammate secondary, smaller.

The message no different from when he referred to us back then as his supporting cast.

From one season to the next, we received little or no credit whenever we won, but the bulk of the criticism when we lost, Michael Jordan would never have been Michael Jordan without me, Horace Grant, Tony Kukoj.

Which is all to say that the ultimate sidekick, the ultimate beta, has very publicly broken up with the alpha of all alphas.

Watching you and Michael on the court, it looked like two best friends out there just crushing everybody.

What was your relationship like off the court?

It wasn't what you saw on the court.

And what we're seeing now is that guy's ex-wife, the mother of Scotty Pippin's four kids, dating the son of the guy he has been feuding with.

A son who last played organized basketball, incidentally, at the University of Central Florida.

And all of it has dragged both Scotty and Michael, who who are already clearly both just incredibly image conscious, into this real-life soap opera, which is unlike anything I have ever seen before.

In fact, this story raised so many questions for me that a couple months ago, I enlisted the help of not one, but two friends to seriously investigate whether this relationship, this whole thing, was even real.

And one of them, producer Ryan Cortez, you already know, Cortez loves reality TV, unsurprisingly.

He loves the housewives, loves vendor pump rules, unironically, all that.

And our other friend, Charlotte Wilder, you may know as co-host of Oddball, Meadowlark's NBA show.

And she also speaks fluent

Bravo-es.

But

before we meet Marcus and Larsa ourselves, I do feel like you should know something else about what Larkis has been up to recently.

And

Charlotte, too.

Charlotte Wilder, first off, I feel like, Ryan, we should say congrats.

Big touch.

You guys, thank you so much for what?

I mean, for finding love in a hopeless place.

Well,

I don't know.

But thank you guys so much.

Yes, I did get married this past summer.

It was lovely.

Very low-key, which is how we wanted it, which is also

a few weeks before is when I got the call from you.

Yeah, I want to apologize as well as congratulate.

Tell me why you're sorry, Pablo.

Because I called you as you were getting ready for,

you know, the consummation of your love, and I assigned you a story about love that must have felt very callous because

I kind of just unilaterally decided that you had to do this.

No, it was one of the better calls I've ever gotten in my career.

For those of you who were not on the phone, which is everybody but me and Pablo, Pablo's like, hey, and I'm like standing outside a fish store and with my mom.

I'm like, okay, you go and get, I have to, Pablo's calling me, and like, there's traffic going by.

And he's like, we have to do an episode on Marcus Jordan and Larsa Pippen and the fact that they're together.

And I was like, yes.

And like a car whooshes by.

And I'm like, what?

And then, and that's how this all began.

Yeah.

And then I think I called you back and I was like, by the way, Cortez is in.

And also, it turns out they have a podcast.

And I was like, let f ⁇ ing go!

I want to cut through the noise of this because what I have asked both of you to do, and

you did it to varying levels of enthusiasm.

Begrudgingly,

Cortez, who somehow loves reality television, but hates this.

I had us listen to all of the episodes of Separation Anxiety, which is the podcast hosted by Marcus and Larsa, who will now get first-name basis with us because we've been living with them in our ears for weeks, months now at this point.

No disrespect to them, but it's one of the worst podcasts I've ever heard.

So, spoiler alert.

Spoiler alert.

No disrespect.

No disrespect.

No offense, but I guess I should just play how how it begins for people who are not lucky enough to have listened to this show.

Hi, guys.

I'm Larsa Pippin.

I'm on The Real House Lives in Miami.

And I'm Marcus Jordan, CEO and founder of Trophy Room.

And we're here for our first episode of our podcast.

And what's it called, Barn?

Separation Anxiety.

Separation anxiety with Larsa and Marcus.

I love that.

We sound so cute with that.

I love it too.

I am going to hear Marcus Jordan's voice in my head going, ha ha, in my, in when I'm being lowered into my grave.

And then Larsa saying, I love it, babe.

The way they introduce themselves here, she says, I'm Larsa Pippen.

I'm on the Real House of Miami.

He says, I'm Marcus Jordan, CEO and founder of Trophy Room.

What you actually are, the way the public knows you is you are Scotty Pippin's ex-wife and you are Michael Jordan's son.

Yes.

This, I think, is very telling about the whole way they structure this of wanting to, they're trying to like take something back as we will find out.

But that I think is a very, is a big clue.

But this textual reading of this podcast is why I wanted to do this because they are telling their own story.

Yes.

And in depth.

And so Trophy Room, by the way, is a Jordan brand store in Chicago.

Like this is, again, a literal Michael Jordan thing that he is identifying as his thing.

But also what he's identifying is the title of the show, Separation Anxiety, which is about how they can't bear to to be apart.

Marcus tells this story about how they met four years ago in the most romantic place on earth, which is the VIP room of a Jordan brand party alongside Fat Joe.

Anytime there's an event like that, I kind of like to be the liaison for people to kind of, you know, get close to my dad, get in the top secret section.

And so I think it was either Joe or DJ Khaled that texted me and was like, hey, we'd love to see pops.

And you just happened to be with them.

And so I finessed a way for everybody to get in.

I just found myself staring at you across the room and like wanting to talk to you and get to know you more.

Plus, we've got a lot of mutual friends.

Oh, do you?

Who could that?

Who could that be?

Can we talk to you about the like?

We started the pod with their introduction, and he's the CEO of Trophy Room or whatever.

He could also have introduced himself as, hey, I'm a liaison for people to get close to my dad.

Like, that's what he does, dude.

Like, well, this is the part about the mutual friends, right?

It's like, yeah, maybe, maybe mutual friends like Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen, Once Upon a Time, are those the mutuals you're describing?

Um, so all of this is the backdrop, incidentally, for Marcus courting Larsa.

And oh, yeah, it's romantic.

So, every time I would be in Miami, we would say, Hey, you know, I'm in town, what you up to?

Where are you at tonight?

You know, and I feel like it just kind of gradually happened over time.

Yeah, you know, it's crazy because I kind of like thought you were like my homie for a long time.

Yeah,

they spend a lot of time talking about how they weren't dating at first.

Yes.

And how they were just friends.

And it's like a lot of this podcast, a whole something I think of whenever I was listening to this is if you have to say it, it isn't true.

Like the amount they're trying, and it reminded me, this is for you, Cortez, of something Tyler Hero said the other day.

He said, I know my value.

I know I'm one of them ones and I don't need to say it.

I'll show you.

But he just said it.

Right.

Right.

You know, we talked about that on Oddball, Shameless Plug.

Good pod.

Saying the thing without saying the thing while looking like an ass with the headband and the floppy hair.

I love Tyler Hero, but he did say the thing.

He did say the thing, and they just keep saying the thing that they could show, but somehow

don't fully make it.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a lot of telling.

A lot of telling.

Not so much showing.

Marcus Jordan, just to recap here, Michael Jordan's son.

begins to try and win the heart of Scotty Pippin's ex-wife.

Yes.

I just feel like I need to keep saying that in part because they don't say it, but also because

how does that happen exactly behind the scenes?

Let's hear that.

Let's hear it from them.

I don't know what it was, but I felt like at dinner I kind of was looking at you like, God, he's really cute.

And then that night at live, I kind of felt like, no, he's hot as

thank you.

And then it was just kind of like I never viewed you like that before, just because I figured like we, this was like off limits.

Like it was not something I wanted to go to to war for.

Yeah, you know, I feel like you have to pick and choose your battles.

And I wasn't sure that this battle was going to be that's true.

You know, I was kind of skeptical because I kind of felt like, why would you do this, Larsa?

Why would you do this?

Why would you date someone that, you know, just the families, it's just a really crazy situation to be in.

I mean,

okay, she finally says the thing.

I mean, this is like Romeo and Juliet.

Yeah, yeah.

A forbidden love.

I feel like this was off limits.

Like

the two biggest teammates in basketball who now kind of hate each other.

Yes.

And she's like, I felt like it was off limits.

Not somebody wanted to be.

You think?

You think it was a little off limits?

But what changed for her, if you read it, what she's saying is like, but he's so hot that like now it is on limits, which is kind of a crazy, like the delineation factor for her on like what swinged it.

Right.

She's hot as shit, Cortez.

But I mean, just think about making the decision to enter this relationship as either one of these people.

You're saying, I want to be half of truly the most ridiculous tabloid story in sports.

Like this is explosive in ways that are obvious.

It also is so explosive that it feels, again, engineered.

Like, I think a lot of people's hypothesis about this is this is a put-on.

This is fake simply because the incentives are so obvious.

Because, of course, like, this is a tabloid mad lib.

It feels like, what could you do if you were Marcus Jordan or Larsa Pippin and you wanted to get the most possible attention?

Yes.

It feels like, well, obviously, you would get together and talk about getting married.

And

you would also say that it took not as long as you might think for them to

say how much they love each other.

How many days do you think it took, do you remember, for you to tell me you love me?

I feel like I can count it on one hand.

I think it was like three, four days where I was like, damn, I think I love you.

I would run for the hills.

That's the scariest thing.

That's like.

So they started as, by her words, I thought you were my homie, friends without any of this.

Then there was some point randomly where in her head, she knew it was off limits.

And then she's like, he's really hot.

Now it's.

Yep.

She felt it in her loins.

And then three days later, they're in love.

So if you, if people are looking at that and they're like, that's not real, you could see why somebody might deduce that, right?

Like,

how dare you?

Oh, yeah, Cortez.

How many episodes of this?

There were,

at last check, there were, I believe, a Baker's dozen.

I mean, that's a lot.

I started going to speed on this, but

Larson never says Scotty's name, except when she says Scotty Jr.

talking about her son, which feels even more intimate in a way to me.

But she says, my ex, she says, when you break up with someone respectfully for instance i remember when my ex played in portland oregon that i could handle my kids with or without my ex and you know i when i met my ex i didn't even like him my experience with my ex was not bad all the news media is saying that i'm getting half of my ex's pension yes all of that but also in certain ways she doesn't bash him like she will on the same breath say like would you tell your kids to date an athlete and she's like yeah my experience with an athlete was fine or she might even use the word good.

Marcus frames it a little bit differently.

Would it matter to you if your partner had been with several high-profile people before you?

I don't think so.

Do you?

I mean, obviously not.

I think you've been linked to some, you know, notable people in the past.

And so, nah, I don't think that that bothers me.

It's just

part of the game, I guess.

This is where I was just yelling at my phone.

Yes.

Yes.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills listening to this show and being like, I am here for one reason.

And you're not saying the reason.

Say his name.

Say Scotty Pippen's name.

They don't give us details.

They dance around the elephant in the room, even when they're talking about the elephant in the room.

And just for some more context, the way she frames that relationship on The Real Housewives of Miami is more like, I was taking care of everything.

Scotty was away.

Scotty was doing this.

I took care of the house.

I took care of the kids.

So you feel a love of like they're disconnected and so forth.

I just want to point out that's her.

Cortez unilaterally decided to just watch the Real Housewise of Miami.

I'm not asking to do that.

Cortez was like, I'm on it.

I got Real House.

And we were like, okay.

Sucks as well.

They are a bunch of fake Miami people.

She's on Miami, Real House was Miami living in Fort Lauderdale.

Like, come on, bro.

What are you doing?

Oh, well, even I know.

Even the most New England person in the world knows that that's not the same thing.

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This smooth, flavorful cognac is crafted from the finest grapes and aged to perfection, giving you rich notes of oak and caramel with every sip.

Whether you're celebrating a big win or simply enjoying some cocktails with family and friends, Remy Martin 1738 is the perfect spirit to elevate any occasion.

So go ahead, treat yourself to a little luxury, and try Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale.

Learn more at remymartin.com.

Remy Martin Cognac, Fiend Champion, 14 Alcoholic by Volume 40 by Ready Control, USA Incorporated, New York New York, 1738, Centaur Design.

Please drink responsibly.

When you talk about the disconnect, Cortez, the name of this podcast is Separation Anxiety.

Regardless of what you think about this, she is with someone who she is joined at the hip with, and they, he doesn't have to go, he's not playing basketball.

Well, he tried, he's not.

And so they they can just be together.

And maybe there's something about that that is like very, very appealing to her after basically being the CEO of a family while her husband did the incredibly demanding job of being a professional NBA player.

And so I should point out that as you get deeper into this podcast, you know, to me, I actually began to feel because so much of their stories end up being fairly mundane and about how much time they spend together, I was kind of like, I can actually see why they get along.

I was like, I kind of buy this.

I don't think they're like showing up as actors to like goose the algorithm and then disappearing.

I think they're actually spending a whole lot of time together.

Oh, yeah.

And you ask each other questions,

you know, to pass the time, questions like this.

Okay, so let me ask you a question.

What's the one movie that you can watch over and over again?

The one movie I can watch over and over is The Last Dance.

Oh my gosh.

I mean, we don't need to go into that.

So, this is where I was like, I can't even.

Yes, finally.

Marcus, finally.

I was listening to this podcast thinking a lot of the time about how Scotty Pippen might react to what we're hearing.

And that part, if I'm Scottie Pippen, I would have punched a hole in

my computer.

Like the backdrop on this, right?

Like, Scotty Pippen hated

The Last Dance.

No one hated The Last Dance, the giant epic film that ESPN put out with Michael Jordan about Michael Jordan more than Scotty Pippen.

If you are giving Marcus a benefit of the doubt here, if you're saying, okay, if you are acting in good faith, if you do love this woman so much, if you're, if you're not really trying to rock the boat, which I don't think it's mutually exclusive, I think they can be in love.

And he's also, there's something he's getting out of this, something that she's getting out of this.

But

you would not say

the one movie I can watch over and over is The Last Dance, especially because, like, the movie that your ex hated the most, that he wrote a book.

Like, you can't tell me that's not a little bit poking the bear, especially when Marcus is only in like the tiniest, tiniest little bit at the end.

He's an afterthought.

But this is the thing.

What if Marcus Jordan authentically just loves The Last Dance?

And that's the actual right answer.

Like, I think all of these things could be true.

It's that he is both like kind of cheekily poking at Lars's ex.

And also, like, it's true.

It seems to hold up that Marcus Jordan's favorite thing in life is swimming in the mythology of his family.

Yeah.

And so I believe this too.

Again, it feels like the, it finally feels like the juice we're demanding.

And also, like, I think he actually loves this.

I think of him as Kendall Roy.

Oh, my God.

Like, I think there's some obsession here.

Also, Michael Jordan has three kids, two boys, one girl.

Yeah, they were here.

Wow.

Although, although, isn't Marcus the younger son?

Marcus is not the eldest boy.

It's fair.

It's a fair point.

He's not the eldest boy.

But we should point out here as we theorize that, like, we reached out to Scotty Pippen because we are journalists for comment.

He did not respond.

Coward.

All right, just jumping in here to say that I, we, do not think Scotty Pippen is actually a coward.

In fact, I kind of feel for him, right?

Like, this story to me is also about how Scotty is, in some sense, again, getting humiliated by Michael Jordan.

And that sucks, objectively, even if it is not Michael actually doing the humiliating.

And we should also say that we did reach out to Michael.

We reached out to Michael Jordan's spokesperson, and they told Pablo Torre, finds out, that Michael had, quote unquote, no comment on his son's relationship with Larsa Pippen

coward

something I had I'm sorry to get academic on all of you but this is this could not be more Freudian if it tried the definition of like daddy issues that you know Freud wrote about was

the child forms a strong attachment with a parent of the opposite sex and feelings of competition towards a parent of the same sex.

And a lot of this has been debunked.

Like a lot of the, a lot of psychologists and psychologists now are like,

I don't know, that feels pretty simple.

But by this old definition, this is pretty, it's like, oh my, and, and I do not mean to armchair psychologize anybody here, but that it, it just sort of hit, it's Shakespearean, it's Freudian, it's like.

It's everything that myths, the Greek myths, it's like all of the things that you had to read in school.

No, it raises, it demands the of how much of his relationship with his dad is the motive for why you would do this.

There are so many people on the planet, right?

Is your love really so blind that it happened to arrive at the one person that would demand attention, the most possible attention from your father?

And Larsa, the same question in relation to Scotty, like, would you do this to, you know, potentially upset that person?

Right.

And then, and then, guys, after listening to the podcast, part of me is like, yeah, maybe.

Like, maybe their love is that blind.

Maybe they were like, this is the only person in the world I could be.

Like, I have to say it.

I know.

I know.

I am.

And that's like, I was brainwashed a little bit, but also, like, maybe it's, maybe both of those things are all true at the same time.

We reached out to Michael Jordan for comment.

He did not respond, but he did

have this thing in Paris in July where he responded to the paparazzi.

Hey, Mr.

Jordan, what do you think about Marcus and Laza peeping together?

You approve of it?

No.

You don't approve?

Do you approve?

No.

No.

I can't believe it.

It's so, oh my God.

Like, that video is also just

burned into my brain.

Like, I close my eyelids and I see Michael Jordan walking to his car saying, no.

What was the headline after that?

Yeah, the TMZ headline, right?

Is quote, Michael Jordan Colin, hell no, I don't approve of son dating Larsa Pippen.

I mean, he didn't say hell no.

He did not say hell no.

I always try to defend like the salacious headline, but that's tough to defend, like to take a no and to turn it into all.

But I will say this, it felt like a hell no to some of the people involved, it turned out.

Because one of my favorite parts of this entire saga of listening to this podcast is hearing Marcus's behind the scenes accounting of what actually happened

after that clip.

When I heard this, I was walking, as I'm wont to do when I'm on the phone or listening to anything, and I stopped in my tracks and my jaw dropped.

And I was like, he did not just, this was not just his explanation.

He gets asked the question, does he approve of our relationship or something?

Yeah.

And at first he laughed, you know, kind of like how I laugh.

I think I laugh at a a lot of the questions that we go through on this podcast.

But he laughed and then the reporter, I guess, asked him again, and he let out an emphatic no

and then shook his head again as he was walking into the car.

And so, you know, obviously my whole family, we're all competitive.

The Jordans, like part of our DNA is to talk shit.

You know, for me.

Obviously, we knew ahead of time because he texted and called me and wanted to make sure that I didn't take anything the wrong way.

And so I can only assume, because I know my dad loves Sincoro.

He drinks tequila all the time,

that he was a little, he was feeling himself a little bit walking.

He was feeling good.

He's on the table.

He was feeling good.

He was feeling good.

I hate to be so cynical.

I don't know that I believe this.

I don't know because the...

The most animated Marcus ever gets on this podcast is when he is talking about his father reacting to him.

The most animated we ever hear him

is when he's like, and my, and he let out an emphatic no, and it's like triumph.

There's a triumph in it because he's,

he might not have said yes, I approve, but he said he was paying attention.

And almost better than a yes is a no.

They got under his skin.

They affected him.

And if he had just been like, yeah, sure, whatever, I don't think it would be as satisfying to Marcus based on how he has responded to other things.

Totally speculating here than that emphatic no.

He was forced to acknowledge him.

Michael Jordan was forced to acknowledge him.

And not only acknowledge, but have an opinion about.

And then Marcus does the one thing

that they never do,

which he says, he says the forbidden name.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that

obviously he thought of the timing.

His goal has always been to, you know, stay clear of our relationship.

I think, look, at the root of it all, obviously, is my dad's relationship with your ex, Scotty.

And so, you know, obviously we never talk about that.

And I don't think that my dad wanted to comment on that.

Yikes.

Finally.

Finally.

I okay.

He did comment on that.

Yeah.

My dad.

I don't think that my dad wanted to comment on that except for when he yelled, no.

I just can't imagine being in a relationship with someone where there is the entire story of your relationship is based on other people and you don't talk about those other people.

That's insane.

I mean, you guys remember the Hall of Fame induction speech that Michael Jordan delivered?

Oh my God.

Classic.

Like the most iconic Hall of Fame speech ever to me.

Crying Jordan.

Gave us Crying Jordan.

Yes.

It's what birthed Crying Jordan.

But it was.

He took out some people, right?

I don't remember if the specifics.

He criticized everybody.

And inadvertently, or maybe just like authentically, he kind of took out his own kids.

Like in a big way.

Yeah, like Marcus is like on screen when he says this.

Obviously, you see my kids, you know, Jeffrey, Marcus, Jasmine, I love you guys.

I think you guys represent a lot of me, a lot of different personalities.

Your mom, you represent them as well.

You know, I think that you guys have a heavy burden.

I wouldn't want to be your guys if I had to, you know, because of all the expectations that you have to deal with.

I mean, look around you.

You know, they charge you $1,000 tickets for this game, for this whole event.

It used to be $200.

But I paid it.

You know, I had no choice.

I had a lot of family, a lot of friends I had to bring in.

So thank you, Hall of Fame, for raising ticket price, I guess.

And so that's the backdrop for like Logan Roy and one of his sons who wants attention, who's never quite good enough, who wants to matter.

It is so sad to me.

It also makes me think of what we played earlier when he says, you know, my family's competitive.

This is how we interact.

Like,

that's their connection is when they're nagging each other.

I mean, imagine you grew up the son of Michael Jordan.

At some point, you stopped.

At some point, you just began to believe, right, that your dad is not like other dads, that your dad is actually like Zeus.

And all you want from Zeus to return to this larger theory is for him to give a shit about you.

Marcus just opened himself up to this.

Marcus put something out into the world with not quite enough information, but just enough that we can start to try to understand him.

And I don't fully, I don't know, I don't get the sense at least that he fully knew what he was signing up for.

Like, I keep, as we talk about this, not to get too meta, I keep thinking about them listening to this episode.

And how would they feel hearing

Marcus and Larsa hearing us talk about their relationship like this that they ostensibly wanted us to be talking about because they talked about it on a podcast?

About them.

Yes.

How do you think he thought it would play out?

I don't know if he did.

I feel like to get even more meta, I feel like we should probably ask them.

And that's after the break.

Hello, hello there.

I don't know if they can hear us.

Oh, we can hear you guys.

Where are you guys right now, by the way?

We're in LA.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, when Lars is not filming the show in Miami, we're based out of here just because our kids are here.

Guys, I should say that this is a very surreal thing for us because Charlotte and I have, and producer Ryan Cortes, who's hiding behind the glass like a coward.

We've listened to every episode of your podcast.

And this, this is, I'm a little nervous.

I'm very nervous.

It's like being inside your podcast.

Like, you guys have been inside our ears so much that

I'm like, oh my God.

You're excited to be here, you guys.

Oh, yeah.

Let's do this.

Right.

I should point out for our podcast audience that Marcus and Larsa are sitting very

close together, arm around the other, sipping Marcus's, a nice cup of coffee, smiling, radiant.

And behind the glass here, our producer, Ryan Cortez, is one of the, is one of the haters.

Okay.

So he's like, I don't believe this relationship is real this is engineered this is too it's too on the nose guys that's what he says and I've heard that

across the internet so what do you say to such people who still have doubts about this

uh can we swear on here absolutely please I was just gonna say

you know that's that's kind of my mentality is them all because you know I just feel like we compliment each other in so many different ways that like whatever you know, she's having a good day.

I'm there to support her and, you know, and vice versa.

And so I don't know.

I feel like we're living in our truth and anybody that doesn't, that doesn't, that isn't happy about it can, you know, can piss off.

I guess part of me does wonder, like, when you guys met and you started dating, Larcy, you even say on the podcast, you're like, oh, my God, is this worth it?

Like, I know what's going to come with this.

There's so many fish in the sea.

Do you think any part of you were attracted to each other, to the idea of the relationship because it felt a little taboo or a little dangerous or no, not at all.

Once we started hanging out more and more together, we just kind of like were attracted to each other.

And we are so much alike that it's crazy.

So, yeah, I know aesthetically, it probably doesn't look good.

And I feel like when people see us together and hang out with us, they're like, you know, it makes sense.

But I think just to hear of it, it doesn't like it, it doesn't resonate well with people.

I think the more time that people spend around us, they realize that it's genuine.

You know, well, listening to you guys talk about it at length, that it becomes clear at the very least, if you guys are putting on a show here, you're putting a lot of time into this show.

First of all, you guys, who's got time to?

I already have a show.

Here, a business.

Who's got time for Hocus Pocus?

We don't.

I don't.

I have five companies, you guys.

Like I have four kids.

Who's got time for that?

And we clearly don't need to

fake a relationship for over a year.

Who would do that?

I would never do that.

So the question I have, though, is, because you guys are also and this is the part that extra it extra breaks my brain is larsa you are a reality television star and so the thinking right of the pros and cons take us to the pros and cons list you must have been making in your head when you guys are just now contemplating romance

i mean it you know i think for us because we were friends before i just knew that it would it would be hard for us to date.

You know, I just knew it was like impossible.

Like, how could I date Marcus?

It's impossible.

And then the more and more time we spent together, it was like the pros were, there were so many pros, you guys.

It was like a list of a billion.

And the cons were our last names.

And that's literally what it was, our last names.

I'm not concerned with like my ex or Marcus's death.

Like we're both adults.

I don't ask my ex who he dates.

I've never said one bad thing about my ex.

I wish him nothing but the best.

I feel like for me, the only thing that like I care about is my happiness, Marcus's happiness, and my kids that are affected by us being together.

And I feel like my kids love him and he fits in our family so effortlessly.

And it's just like an easy, you know, it's like an easy relationship.

And I also want to say, and I feel like we have a lot in common.

Maybe because we're both from Chicago, we both grew up kind of in the same place.

Like Marcus was friends with my brother-in-law, played basketball with my brother-in-law, not including me for years.

You know, it's like like his circle like he knows all my cousins yeah i like to say we're cut from the same cloth in that chicago upbringing well also the chicago bulls jersey that literal cloth i mean guys this is this is the part that's i wish i wish i could take credit for the whole chicago bulls like run but i i was i was a um a senior at uyc when scotty played with marcus's dad yeah so i was in college i was like 21 years old when they played together i was only there for one year the last year they played together and i was like never in Chicago with his dad again.

So it wasn't like people think like, oh, she was there the whole time.

I was in high school.

And Marcus, what, did you have a relationship with Scotty?

I saw it, you know, I was looking through Instagram and that he reposted Trophy Room in like 2017.

Has has that been a factor at all?

Oh, no, I wasn't even aware of that.

And, you know, no, I saw him, you know, whenever he was around my dad.

And, you know, that's kind of what it was.

But no, I wouldn't say that we had any type of relationship.

what's it like larsa to

have have you been around michael while in the relationship that you have with marcus how how i want to let you just imagine that if it's happened what can you tell us about what that is like

i feel like i don't really want to talk about mark like i don't want to talk about michael i don't want to talk about my ex i feel like we're really comfortable talking about us yeah I feel like our families just want us to be happy.

And, you know, I feel like I don't want to put too much emphasis on your family or my family other than like us and my kids that are affected by our relationship.

Other than that, like no one's really affected by our relationship, to be honest with you.

I think the main thing for my dad was like, look, you're a grown adult, grown-ass man is what he said.

And is that what he texted you?

Yeah, I mean, exactly.

He was like, you're a grown-ass man.

You can make your own decisions.

You know, ultimately, as long as I'm happy, he's happy.

And so, you know, he's never intervened in my dating life prior to Larsa.

And so he's not going to start now.

So.

But this, but Larsa, and guys, I totally understand you.

This is a diplomacy that I'm impressed by because it feels like as reality television is concerned, you guys are leaving some juice on the table, right?

Like if you guys were messier,

I think the potential of this to be an even bigger tabloid internet breaking story would be obvious to me, Larsa.

And yet you're, you're, you're clearly like not interested in that degree of mess.

Well,

there's no mess.

Do you know what I mean?

I'm not, I'm not like that.

I don't want the smoke.

I don't want, I want none of that.

I just want to be happy.

And I feel like together we make each other happy.

And it's not like, I know I've read things online that basically people are like, oh, she's trying to get back at her ex or, and I'm like, it's none of that.

It's like, I've never been that person.

I would never, ever in a billion years try to.

you know, like do that.

That's not my intention.

But if you meet someone and you have a great connection with them and they make you happy and you fall in love with them, then that's what it is.

It's not like, you know, it's not like we're hurting anyone.

It's not like, you know, we're just both happy.

So I think people should just be happy for us.

Yeah.

The same way I would be happy for someone that found love.

Like I am a romantic person.

I would be happy for that.

Charlotte just got married, by the way.

I did.

Yes.

Congratulations.

When's the wedding, you guys?

And

speaking of which, how about you guys?

Exactly.

It's in the works is

my go-to saying right now.

You know, I don't think we have like a date.

We're still talking about locations and party size and all of that stuff.

So it's not really concrete yet, but it'll happen.

Marcus, do you want your dad to give a toast at your wedding?

How does this work?

Yeah, you know, look, I was the best man at his wedding and so, and the best man at my brother's wedding.

And so obviously we'll keep that tradition going is my thoughts on it.

I want, I want in.

I want video cameras there.

Now that, you know, I've been on the on the housewise in Miami.

You know, all the producers are inquiring around, you know, when's the wedding?

Are we going to film it on TV?

Yada, yada, yada.

And so that's another thing that we're kind of playing along with is whether or not it'll it will air.

What are you leaning towards?

I mean, and what is it like being on that show?

And, you know, your love is

so real, but you guys also are so intriguing because of who you are.

So what's the balance there?

you know i obviously look i'm we're very private people the jordans and so if it was up to me i think we would do maybe multiple weddings one private for our family and friends and then maybe there's one that's a little more public but uh you know i guess time will tell i guess time will tell yeah i'm noticing larsa is very diplomatic about this subject as well

You know, it's not my story, you guys.

I don't, you know, when you were talking about I don't give up names, I kind of don't feel like, you know, I don't really want like, if it's my story about me i'm very transparent i'm very open but when it can when it's someone else i feel like i try to be sensitive to someone else's feelings you know yeah and so i don't like to like use people's names unless they're present in the room and they can defend themselves in their story because there's two sides to every story and i feel like when it comes down to marcus's family like i don't want to talk about that i i'm not the person that should be talking about that or saying how Michael feels.

Like, I don't want to be a part of that.

You know, I feel like for me, the only person I can talk about is myself.

Like, that's, yeah, I'm really open about like how I feel and what I'm doing, but I don't have a problem telling someone a f to their face.

I'm good for that.

I just feel like when I'm talking about people, I kind of feel like I'm, I'm sensitive to like how they would feel if they heard it or whatever.

If they're in the same room, then we can talk about whatever.

I'm not going to talk about Marcus's family.

Like you talk about them, you know?

So now I'm going to be incredibly invasive, as invasive as I can possibly be, because I want to know about

your potential kids, you two guys.

Marcus, I saw this Instagram photo you just posted, the second slide.

A lot of people are talking.

Investigative journalist, you were sort of like palming as your dad would palm a basketball.

You two were palming Larsa's womb.

So, what was what was up with that?

I'm always holding her tight.

And so there's nothing there.

You know, I did see some comments on IG about that, but nah, you know,

if it's in the cards, it's in the cards.

But right now, we're just taking it day by day.

What's the last name going to be?

If, in fact, we get to that point?

How does that work?

You guys must have done the math on this.

Yeah, that's easy.

It's going to be Jordan, 100%.

Jordan, no hyphen.

There's no Pippin dash Jordan.

If that happens, obviously the wedding date, she's Jordan.

And then any kids would be Jordans.

You know, my kids being Pippin also, I feel like unless I got remarried, I wouldn't change my last last name.

But if I do, you know, obviously when we, when we do get married, I'm going to change my last name.

Yeah.

I mean, I got to say, like, I am struck by the normalcy of you guys amid the abnormality of what this is on paper.

Like, to me, I, so, okay, Larsa, what, what already are you responding to there?

Yeah.

I know, I get it.

It's, you know, it's, it's awkward.

Like, it's weird.

I get it.

But to us, it's not weird.

It's probably weird to the world because our last names are known for, you know, basketball history.

And it's also

the context of

like the history of duos, right?

Like, this is part of why this is so delicious and irresistible is that Jordan and Pippin is the most famous tandem maybe in human history.

And so I imagine when it comes to like the internal dynamic of your relationship, right?

One question that I have, Charlotte hates this question.

She hates that I have this question, but the question is simple in that, in that way.

Who is the Jordan and who's the Pippin of your relationship?

I'm sorry.

I tried to find it.

Go ahead, babe.

No, I'm Michael.

He's the Jordan and I'm the

I hadn't anticipated that that that

out.

That's a very easy out that you guys took and I appreciate it.

It's yeah,

you guys are very good at this.

I'm very, I'm very impressed.

You guys don't understand.

I feel like for us, like we work together, we work out together.

We like, we spend so much time together that I think that like, I think people don't understand that.

Like I can finish his sentences and he can finish my sentence.

Literally.

So I think it's just like, for us, it's like an easy, what's the word?

Like, I don't know.

It's just like.

Or like peanut butter and jelly.

Yeah.

Another famous QO.

But I think had it been where Marcus's dad or family said, hey, never see her again, we probably would just continue being friends.

Wow.

That's fascinating.

And I think, you know, I would never want to be with someone who, I don't, I would never want to be in a situation where I'm destroying someone's family or causing major turmoil.

That's not my intention.

Would never be my intention, you know?

So I think had it been like that, you know, I think when people think about your dad, I'm like, if he didn't want us to be together, by the way, we wouldn't be together.

No, I mean, we would not be together.

Just like, it just wouldn't happen.

I would never want to be in a situation like that.

Yeah.

And you know, my dad is a notorious trash talker.

I was going to bring this up, Marcus.

The most gripping episode of your podcast was, of course, the no episode.

Right.

Where your dad is in Paris and the paparazzi find him and he's asked the question that Larsa was just alluding to.

Do you approve of this?

You approve of it?

No.

No.

And then gets in the car.

Yeah.

Well, first he laughed.

And I think that's the most telling of what his mood was is that obviously he took it in stride and he kind of chuckled and then let out the no.

And so for people that know my dad knows, he likes to talk a lot.

And so I took it in that moment as like, obviously he's kidding, he's joking.

Maybe he had a little much, a little bit too much to drink in terms of Sincoro that night.

And Larsa was like, absolutely devastated.

And she was like, what is this?

Because it just.

It painted this narrative that like he obviously wasn't on board when we knew that he was.

and so you know for me i i i knew where he was coming from but it took some explaining for her to kind of understand that like look obviously she knows who he is in terms of his personality but you know he never uh misses an opportunity to kind of throw a jab or two that's kind of our relationship is like we we both like to give it to one another and obviously if you dish it out you have to be able to take it and so you know i think he was being lighthearted and joking and you know he texted me right away and was like hey look you know obviously i didn't mean that.

You're an adult.

You can do, you know, you can do as you please.

I'm just here to support you.

And he actually even took it a step further to say, like, you don't even need my approval.

You're a grown man.

So, you know, I just think

it was blown out of proportion.

Maybe he shouldn't have said it, but it's all good, you know.

So I just want to summarize what I've found out here today, Charlotte, with Larsa and Marcus, because what I'm hearing is the story, the testimony of two friends who are living not inside of a reality television show, but inside of a rom-com.

Yes.

It's like, what are the odds?

What are the odds that these two crazy kids specifically would fall for each other against the wishes, the Romeo and Juliet wishes of the public, right?

I do think, though, that, you know, a lot of the commotion is really based in the fact that like people haven't really seen our dynamic together.

And it's one thing to hear it in the podcast, but I think as the Housewives of Miami, you know, starts to air, I think the more that people see us interact together, they'll know that it's like genuine and authentic.

I think once people read the headlines or, you know, see things in the media,

it's a different take.

you know so at the end here guys what do you want the pip and jordan dynamic that you guys are establishing to signify?

We know what it signified with Scotty and Michael.

What do you guys want people to think of when they think of you two?

We're kind of on the greatness path too.

So even greatness too.

There we go.

He was greatness.

Just just another ring in the works is what I'm hearing.

I mean, of course.

Thank you guys so much.

I really, I do feel also you're, you know, it's one thing to to listen to the podcast but talking to you there

i feel bad about some things i said i'm gonna say that right now what well i mean i listened to it

yeah tell us what you've said

now i'm uncomfortable at the end of our so we taped a conversation before we talked to you guys to say to be like here's what we took away from the podcast and here and and i think it was with a very skeptical

it was about like incentives it's like look how how good an idea a business plan this would be to get, it got me hooked, right?

Jordan and Pippin, the reboot?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and, and of course, through that, I am a cynical person.

And so I think we, we, we did not appreciate the degree to which you two would be so proudly boring as just a couple.

Not boring, but like not trying to be messy.

And I said, I was like, I really, I was like, I wish they would have given a like if I want.

Charlotte wanted more mess.

I wanted more mess.

I just feel like people tend to judge people that are popping.

That's how it is.

Can you, oh, by the way, last note is that Ryan Cortez, producer behind the glass, is still a skeptic, guys.

He is still shaking his head.

I'm like, Cortez, you don't believe them?

He's shaking his head.

No.

So what do you want to say to him at the very end here?

Follow and subscribe.

I feel like, you know, if you.

I don't know.

I mean, we're not out to prove anything.

You know, it's just kind of like if the question arises, then we'll address it.

But, you know we're out here living our life so you could tell you could tell him off yeah you could just say that again so i feel like if he is in a position that's like a liar thinks everyone's lying he that way so for us

misery loves company right

so for us i feel like we're authentic we're real we're truthful we're honest we're very open and if you can't see it, then you're blind and it's all good.

We hope that you get your vision back.

You could say he's a coward.

Yeah.

I mean, he's probably a coward and a pig.

I don't know.

I don't know what he is.

Trash talk-wise, I feel like you guys are both Jordan.

Probably.

Yes.

Fellow podcasters.

Yes.

Larsa Pippen and Marcus Jordan.

Thank you for

joining Pablo Torre Finds Out.

Thanks for having us.

Bye, guys.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metal Arc Media Production, and I'll talk to you next time.