Why So Many Athletes Have Tattoos of the Joker: A Special Halloween Investigation

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

You've permanently put my enemy's face on your body.

Like, do you realize how offensive that is to me?

Right after this ad.

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I'll go first.

Three, two, one.

Clap above the mic, and then Wyatt.

All right.

I'm going to start from six, five, four, three,

two, one.

If you need me to count again,

because

you need it, I will do it.

I just feel upset for you that Pablo has only taught you three numbers.

There's so many more.

I only know six of them.

Wyatt, I'm doing the math on this.

We've known each other for about 10 years, I think, at this point, maybe.

Is that right?

I think that's right.

So, this is the 10th anniversary of

the Wyatt Pablo friendship?

That's right.

Us getting brunch together in Brooklyn ritualistically for like every week for a long ass time.

But wait, that feels like we got to celebrate 10 years.

What is the 10th anniversary?

What is that in a friendship?

Is that it's a podcast guest appearance.

Oh, actually.

Our anniversary is this podcast appearance.

And if I'd known, I didn't bring you a podcast.

Well, I brought something that I do sort of need you to address at the top here because I've been thinking about like, how do I introduce you?

There are many ways I could introduce you.

I feel like I need to start with the fact that

we've never talked about this.

Okay, so Wyatt Sinak has been a multi-Emmy award-winning daily show correspondent and writer, a Grammy-nominated stand-up comedian, an acclaimed HBO talk show host, an actor who's done everything from network TV to independent film.

But also, today for the Pablo Torre finds out Halloween Preview Spectacular,

I needed to ask him about a

different line on his resume.

You once handed a gun to Kanye West.

It wasn't a real gun, to be clear.

But you did tell him to shoot you.

You sure?

I can't.

Oh, shit, I dropped my clip.

That's embarrassing.

Yes, again, not a real gun.

But really Kanye West.

Yeah, when I lived in L.A., I used to do this bit on stage where I would come out as a rapper named Lil Royce.

And the conceit of Lil Royce was that he is the rapper who has collaborated with almost every other rapper in hip-hop.

He's the guy they shoot in the skits in between songs.

So anytime somebody rolls up and is just like trying to do that weird bit of audio tape where they seem hard on an album and they're like, oh, let's get that fool right there.

Lil Royce was the guy who was like, oh, you trying to come hard?

Oh, shit.

Oh, I got a gun in my mouth.

Seriously, we have to work on some real music right now so you can go and get someone else to shoot you.

Because I got to work.

I just can't convince you.

Just one.

I'm just saying, just here.

Put it in your hand.

Just shoot at it.

No, just shoot.

What about this?

What about

if you don't shoot me, then I'll shoot myself.

I love you.

No.

He was working on the graduation album.

I just love the idea.

That amid making one of the greatest albums of all time, this happened.

Yeah, so he was working on the album.

And as it happened, he was in the studio and common happened to also be in the studio.

So I didn't just pull the gun on Kanye.

I also pulled it on Common.

It's the sort of deranged behavior by you, honestly, that I think qualifies you to discuss the thing that I've actually summoned you here to talk about.

Sure.

We've been talking about this thing for like more than a year.

Not me making a weird sketch with Kanye and common, but what we're about to talk about.

Yes, because what we're about to talk about,

I mean, the character at the center of it, that's kind of the sort of thing that the Joker would do.

You have nothing, nothing to threaten me with, nothing to do with all of your story.

Sure, yeah.

If the Joker was really into sketch comedy, he seems more in the prank world.

So I guess, yeah, it qualifies.

Sure.

What's up, listeners?

I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, I certainly dreamed big.

I think when we were all kids, we dreamed big, whether we wanted to be astronauts, presidents.

Personally, I wanted to be a pitcher for the then Florida Marlins.

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So I'm consulting my texts here, my text message history with you.

And this date, August 3rd, 2022, last year, it's not where this story begins, but it involves you sitting courtside at a New York Liberty game in Brooklyn.

Handoff from Howard turns the corner and the foul.

Brex tomato!

When I could still sit courtside at Liberty Games.

So you being banned from Barclay Center.

They didn't have to know that.

They could have just assumed because I'm not famous enough anymore.

Wasn't because of the Kanye thing or the gun thing or any other alleged crimes that you may or may not have perpetrated.

No, it's just me being a misfit.

Local ne'er-do-well.

But you, local ne'er-do-well, were watching the Liberty, the hometown Liberty, playing the LA Sparks.

And this game would have been like forgettable otherwise for me, except for the fact that you texted me the following.

Quote, one of the New York Liberty has a Joker tattoo.

And you follow that up as I asked who question mark?

You followed it up with number three, Dangerfield, calf joker tattoo, referring, it turned out, to Crystal Dangerfield, now the Dallas Wings.

What do you remember about the moment that you spotted this in this WNBA game?

Well, I remember this because we had been talking about seeing a Joker tattoo, I want to say, during the NBA playoffs, and it sent me down a rabbit hole of, hey, why does this person have a Joker tattoo?

But then I think we started to see more Joker tattoos.

I now had my radar out for Joker tattoos.

And so then

anytime I saw one, I felt it my duty to share with you that the Joker is in these streets.

Yes, and specifically on crystal Danger Fields, like back right a calf.

Then the same game noticed what?

A second Joker tattoo on another player.

In the exact same game.

This is the calf of another WMA player on the same court, Brittany Sykes of the LA Sparks, now the Mystics.

This is jarring.

Like on the same floor, two different Joker tattoos.

Which Joker do you think this is, by the way?

Because that was a Heath Ledger.

This is.

Why So Serious is also Heath Ledger.

Why so serious?

Oh, yes.

Yeah, so it's two, you got a double Heath.

Double Heath.

Well, I should establish here, right, that like

seeing a single Heath in this context, any Joker tattoo, really, it does feel like an immediate red flag.

Like 100%

in society.

If you told me, Wyatt, I'm seeing this girl now, and I'm like, oh, what's she like?

And you're like, oh, tall, athletic, has a tattoo of of the Joker.

I'd be like, staging intervention.

Yeah, that's the red flag right there.

Yeah.

I mean, it's surprising to me also.

I thought, I would have assumed that all of the people who got these tattoos were like, you know,

incels, I guess.

Yes.

Oh, 100%.

Yeah.

No, the Joker is proud boy number one.

The proudest boy.

Yeah, he is the proudest of the boys.

He's not a hero in any way.

In the comic books, he murders people indiscriminately.

He paralyzed Bat Girl.

And the spine appears to be damaged.

You scum.

He killed one of the robins with a crowbar, no less.

Not even from far away.

It was brutal.

He's a sociopath.

Yep, blew up a hospital at one point.

Blew up a hospital.

Harley Quinn, who everybody loves now, he was a shitty boyfriend to her.

A terrible, abusive boyfriend.

Hi, Quinn.

You're just in time to see the face.

And yet, people say, we gotta, you know, they're good people on both sides.

The Joker Club is more diverse than I realized.

Immediately, I'm just like, gender, racially, like my mind was blown when I got these texts from you.

As we decided to like look deeper, what became very clear, obviously, is that

this army was truly vast.

Yeah.

No, there's a giant Joker army.

And I should admit that when I started looking into this, I kind of assumed it would be like a little trend piece, like a BuzzFeed listicle at best.

But the list of guys and gals with Joker tattoos was

essentially endless.

Like, we stopped.

We actually had to stop finding athletes to reach out to because the number of people on the list was ultimately around where?

Around 20, I believe.

We just cleared 20 with the tattoo that I will reference here in a second.

But like in the NBA alone, Wyatt, DeMarte Rosen has one very prominently.

Yeah.

Yeah, no,

he's got a shoulder Joker.

This is one of the best mid-range shooters in the NBA.

And the last thing you see before he drops like a 15-footer on your head is just Heath Ledger, is jarring to me.

It is.

I feel like he, as a player, is intimidating enough.

So now we're seeing Lamarcus Aldridge's Joker tattoo, which is similar facial expression as the DeMar DeRosen Heath Ledger Joker.

It's also a Heath Ledger Joker.

Under it, it says, ha ha.

There's also a 12, which is Lamarcus Aldridge's number.

And then looking down,

I guess, proudly.

Judgmentally, perhaps.

Yeah, it just seems like looking down, kind of the way that

Drake looks down on his son,

the Joker is,

you know, being sort of proudly doted on by a giant tattoo of Jesus Christ.

And in terms of just like the composition of these tattoos, Odell Beckham Jr., like, this is his right leg.

He has a Joker tattoo.

Well, it says why so serious, but here's the thing.

Right below it, something very serious.

It's a black power.

It's one of the guys from the Olympics.

Tommy Smith and or John Carlos.

Yeah, it's the Tommy Smith or John Carlos gloved fist.

That is serious, Odell.

Next to the Joker is Prince and Obama.

Yeah, yeah.

Giant Barack Obama right next to, like standing back to back almost like an lethal weapon.

But wait, Wyatt, does the portrait of Martin Luther King on the calf do anything for you?

Again, why so serious, MLK?

Barack Obama, the Joker,

and Prince, those four proud black kings together.

Well, the whole idea of identifying with the villain here, which is a recurring theme, I mean, it brings us to another football player, George Kittle, the 49ers star tight end.

He didn't just get a Heath Ledger tattoo on his left forearm.

He got it the day before he got married.

And he explained this to Kyle Brandt, I believe.

I go home that night

to my fiancé, Claire, and I'm like, hey.

What are your thoughts on this?

And I'm showing her the image.

And like, I didn't even have the image picked out yet, too.

Like, I had 100 Joker screenshots.

Like, I'm just filtering through them.

I don't know what I really want.

And I found like this one, the scene where he's in the jail cell, just sitting there, um, because he's there intentionally.

And uh, it's like the clapping scene where he's just going like this.

That's such a great scene.

And he, um,

I just like kind of stuck with me.

I was like, hey, Claire, like, what do you think about this?

And I thought she was going to stab me.

I really, I really did.

So many red flags in that answer.

Yeah.

Does that mean the Joker was the best man at his wedding?

Is that why he needed to get the tattoo before the wedding?

And also for the person who was there as the best man, were they a little disappointed that they weren't really the best man?

That it's the Joker just clapping like a seal?

This is the one that Jalen Milro, Alabama quarterback, got made.

The Joker's a terrible teammate.

Look at this.

Why would you want him on your team in your jersey?

Wearing a red, a crimson-tied jersey with a Nike swoosh is, again, Heath Ledger's joker.

You know how he got that jersey?

He murdered one of the team.

He doesn't run a good 40.

He murdered somebody.

That's why he's on the team.

And everyone is just afraid to say anything because they don't want to get murdered too.

There is a

real, like, just dossier of guys who opt into this.

Like, Jamie Collins, the Patriots linebacker who won two Super Bowls, he has a Joker tattoo on his right forearm.

Deshaun Elliott, the Dolphin safety, we found four Joker tattoos, apparently, which is, I think, the record.

Four different Joker tattoos.

Four different Joker tattoos.

Soccer players are doing this, by the way.

Like this guy who played for Shrewsbury Town in England.

Oh, that's my favorite soccer club.

Yep, you love Jason Cummings because on his left thigh is the Joker.

The guy who played for Brentford, Ivan Toney, has one on the back of his left arm.

There was a CFL player, Wyatt, that we found

who didn't get a tattoo of the Joker, but wore Joker makeup underneath his mask and I think played in a game in Canada with this.

Let's have a catch there to get it down to the five.

And a third and probably about a yard and a half.

This does not make any sense to me.

Well, and I guess because there's a part of it where I think about there was a time when athletes wanted to be the hero and it feels like so much of being an athlete is about being the hero.

Shaq famously had a Superman tattoo and then maybe just as famously got angry at Dwight Howard for calling himself Superman.

I don't give a damn what he had on.

It's only one.

When did the tide turn where athletes didn't want to be the Superman anymore.

They wanted to be the mentally unstable man who fell into a vat of acid.

There is one possible turning point that we found in our research because there was a story that the Lakers general manager Rob Palink had told in front of The Rock, by the way.

He told his story to the rock.

To the rock and also to the Lakers about one Kobe Bryant.

There was one time when Kobe, who I worked with for 18 years, was going back to play Madison Square Garden, and he had just seen The Dark Knight.

Obviously, you guys saw that movie.

And he's like, hey, hook me up with dinner with Heath Ledger because he got so locked in to that role.

I want to know how he mentally went there.

And so he had dinner with Heath.

He talked about how he locks in for a role.

And Kobe used some of that in his game.

Pretty sure Heath Ledger wasn't alive by the time this meeting took place.

Yeah.

And in fact, he was not.

Rob Plinka got that wrong, I guess, most generously.

That meeting did not happen, actually.

Or who the hell did Rob Plinka set Kobe Bryant up to dinner with?

Was it?

Like, did he just go to Times Square and get one of the Joker impersonators that's hanging around Times Square and just said, look, I'll pay you $10,000 to just pretend you're Heath Ledger and stay in character and you're going to have a great meal.

There's also this just undercurrent of just like clear

devotion to one Joker above all of the other Jokers.

Yes.

Like the Heath Ledger thing, like throughout the list that we compiled, man, like people love Heath Ledger.

And I feel like I should say that you are not just here because you embarked on this research project with us.

You're here because I think you know more about comic books than anybody else that I know.

I think you are the clubhouse leading authority at Pablo Torrey Finds Out when it comes to just comic book knowledge.

And I guess I should just say, like,

you know, hashtag not all jokers.

They're not, it's more than just Heath heath ledger right there yeah i mean my favorite joker was the caesar romero joker which was from the 1966 batman tv show

hello kiddies meet the joker the tricky trickster he's on wittiness the joker at the moment merely an honest citizen wait this is this is the this is the joker who was in the like kapow yeah era of of batman yeah

Cesar Romero, Spanish and Cuban joker.

The only brown joker.

Not a lot of Cesar Romero's

in our research.

The reason I like the Cesar Romero one is because worst thing he's going to do is put a cherry bomb in your toilet and giggle all the way to the bank.

Like, that's it.

He's not.

He was the clown prince of crime in a way that was actually like

kind of endearing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

His crime was like, oh, I'm going to go to this car dealership and I'm just going to paint all the cars

with polka dots.

And he just is like,

what are you going to do?

And then things escalated in the lineage of Jokers.

Yeah, then.

It got darker.

Yeah.

As

we are in this dark timeline,

as goes Joker, so goes America.

I mean, like Jack Nicholson, by the way, who is, um, now that I think about it, like the Joker who is present at the most NBA games of all, arguably.

Yeah, that's if you want to be a Joker fan, why not the Jack Nicholson Joker, right?

1989 Batman Joker, he does not get any respect.

No, you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

What

I always ask that of all my my prey.

I just like the sound of it.

Rob Polinkin never said anything about,

you know, oh, I set Kobe up for dinner with Jack Nicholson because he was right there.

But then, obviously, Heath Ledger was the real turning point towards the gritty.

And you don't like, I know as your friend, you don't like the Christopher Nolan like era of just hyper-violent Batman.

Yeah, hyper-violent fascist Batman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The Batman that seems to be like pro-capitalism way too much.

I mean, I get like there is a part of it where it's like, oh, yeah, in those movies, Bane and the Joker seem like guys who were, you know, camping out with Occupy Wall Street.

And then it goes to like even just

the weirder, right?

Like the Jared Leto Joker.

Right, you got Jared Leto.

I am not someone who is loved.

I'm an idea.

And then,

yeah, and then you have the Joaquin Phoenix, also known as the Joe Rogan Joker.

They think that we'll just sit there and take it like good little boys, that we won't werewolf and go wild.

Until he has a podcast.

Oh, yeah.

No, he's like, yeah, he's like, oh, comedy didn't work out.

I'm just going to

gin up a bunch of bros and men's rights are important to the joaquin phoenix joker yeah joe rogan never needs a biopic it's just that movie

the journalism of it though beyond your takes what we assigned you wyatt is is an actual um investigative task which is you have a couple favorites among the joker tattoos artistically speaking sure yeah and we needed you to find out like why the f ⁇ are these guys into this like what are their actual point of views as to why they're idolizing an obvious, the most obvious villain?

Right, yeah.

Which, that to me, was the thing.

Again, going back to that idea of Shaq and so many athletes who wanted to be the hero, why do so many athletes today want to be the villain?

Why are they embracing the villain?

And of the villains, yeah, this villain who

is terrible.

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There is this sort of like larger theme I've noticed in sports and in life of

confusing the anti-hero for the hero.

I remember thinking about this with Whiplash, so the movie Whiplash, with J.K.

Simmons being like the truly totalitarian music teacher.

Kobe Ryan, Kyrie Irving, loved Whiplash and identified J.K.

Simmons as the hero of that movie.

They were writing on their sneakers the word whiplash because they were like honoring the philosophies of a guy that was clearly in my mind, the cautionary tale of like how one loses his sanity in the pursuit of greatness.

They were like, that's me.

So for the final father

time,

say it louder!

I'm upset!

Carl.

That doesn't seem good.

Hey, guys, maybe just watch Ted Lasso.

Why don't you go get yourself a Ted Lasso tattoo?

It is disturbing the idea of

I want to be him and him is a super villain.

And so the first, I mean, I guess the first ostensibly good guy you talked to who had a tattoo of the baddest and not Mike Tyson bad, although debatable.

The bad guy who is adorning his body.

Who is the guy that you talk to first?

I sat down with Von Miller, who is a lovely guy, an amazing football player.

I got my very first tattoo when I was 18 years old with my mom.

She got our very first tattoo.

I got my very first tattoo.

And yeah, just

doesn't take himself seriously, not in the Joker way.

But yeah, just a great, great, great guy, but also has a Joker tattoo.

I think I remember telling you that there was just one rule that I had for you in conducting this interview with Von Miller, a future Hall of Famer, two-time Super Bowl champion, eight-time Pro Bowler, Super Bowl MVP, which was Wyatt.

I'm trying to do a serious journalism show.

Just please do not do your famous Batman impression.

I mean, that's, you know,

the people want it.

You've permanently put my enemy's face on your body.

Like, do you realize how offensive that is to me?

Like,

he shot Batgirl.

He killed one of my Robins because I have multiple children who work for me.

I would say, Batman, I really understand where you're coming from, but I can see myself in both of you guys.

I see the Bruce in me, and I see the Joker in me at times in my life.

And I need both of you guys to really channel to be the best Von that I can be.

That's really offensive, Von.

Having the Joker is like, that's my N-word, Von.

I just asked for one thing.

Yeah.

And

you got it.

You got hard-hitting journalism.

From the bat.

If you're not watching on the DraftKings Network or on YouTube, Wyatt is wearing his...

I assume this is yours, your Batman

cowl?

It's a cowl, yeah.

Ah, it's my Batman cowl.

I took it from a child.

Whose parents got it at a Spirit Halloween pop-up store?

I can only hope.

There is like a durag aspect, though, to the cowl now that I think about it.

It's also how I get my waves.

This is my wave cap.

Just so happens that my wave cap is also a Batman mask.

Why, Wyatt,

Batman.

Why did Von Miller get a fing joker tattoo?

He seems like a nice guy.

So Von Miller got a Joker tattoo because

he had ankle surgery.

When everything was stitched up,

Von Miller thought that the scar kind of looked like the Joker's smile.

So it started with the scar, this curved scar over like his, I guess it's an ankle bone.

Yeah.

And he tattooed the eyes over the mouth of the scar is kind of awesome now that I am seeing it up close.

Yeah, no, it's a it's it's it's a cool idea.

I should say that the ankle in question, it was a tendon, a torn tendon in his left ankle,

hurt it in the preseason, September 2020.

I imagine that you got to be in a pretty intense emotional place to be like, I'm going to turn this scar into the Joker's face.

Yeah.

Well, and also when we talked, he talked about how much he likes Batman, so much so that he got a car that he customized into a Batmobile.

He loves the Joker and also loves Batman.

Yeah, he's trying to have it both ways.

How does he explain this?

How does he square this circle?

Me

being the best player on the football field that I can be and me being the best teammate that I could possibly be,

they are two different things.

I think to Von Miller,

for him, the Joker is

something that he feels he needs to turn on or turn off.

in-game situations.

So for instance, on the football field, I'm going against whoever.

During timeouts, I'm going to ask you about your kids and how you're doing.

He knows a lot of other players.

He knows a lot of other players on other teams.

He's friends with them.

He knows their families.

So, I would say that that's the

Bruce in me off the football field.

But then, when the game starts, that person is not your friend anymore.

Being the Joker means, okay,

I can turn that off.

And if I demolish you, that like

I'm not thinking of you as my friend.

I'm trying to like take your head off, and I want to win at any means necessary.

On the football field, I have to be Joker.

So there are times where I have to be vocal.

There is, when I listen to that, there is like a Mamba mentality parallel.

Yeah.

Isn't there?

Like Kobe becoming this evil all-three ego to be the best version of himself.

Yeah.

Which again,

it's interesting that

the way that that mentality has been created is through villainy.

I guess it would be similar because

Kobe, from the stories that I've heard and the research that I've done,

he would say these little things or do these little things in the psychology that he had.

He also had the skill of being great, but he used psychology to really play mind games and mind tricks on people as well.

One could maybe argue that yeah if you're more concerned with your own psychology and the psychology of your opponents and

less focused on the psychology of your teammates

then

you're probably going to be playing a lot of hero ball oh yeah absolutely you're going iso yeah at the end of games i mean this is where by the way this is where like that Rob Polinka, Heath Ledger, tall tale, again, to be generous,

it's where I realized

it actually wasn't entirely made up.

This is actually the story Rob told that he got confused about the Heath Ledger stuff.

Yeah, because I stayed up watching Batman and watching Heath Ledger.

And then I went and started researching about Heath Ledger and how he got into character and how he just became all-consuming.

I was like, that inspired me to go into my garden mode.

Where I go in there, I don't want to say hi to the Janet.

I don't want to say hi to these people.

I don't want to talk to nobody.

Everybody leave me alone.

I feel like the thing, though,

I don't remember,

I don't remember all of it with like the Heath Ledger all-consuming thing,

but I feel like there was an element of it that isn't great for your coworkers.

Being a method joker.

Yeah.

I know with like Jared Leto, there was the story of he maybe sent a horse's head to somebody or some, you know.

That tracks.

There was something that was, oh, it's all-consuming, but it's, it's an HR nightmare.

Talk to Margot Robby, it turns out, who Jared Leto sent a dead rat, just to clarify that record.

And I do wonder for a lot of the people with Joker tattoos, if they were mic'd up, is there a game where there's just seven people with Joker tattoos, and the only thing they're saying anytime they do something is, why so serious?

So you're just hearing like, why so serious?

Why so serious?

Why so serious?

Just, and that's it.

And then just one of their teammates, hey, can you just, you know, can you just stop?

Yeah, we got a good, you got an interception.

Why so serious?

All right, all right, please.

Please.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's, it's not helping right now.

This Joker multiverse does bring me to

wonder, like, what was your favorite Joker tattoo of all of the Joker tattoos that you saw?

Of all the Joker tattoos I saw, my favorite probably had to be Juan Toscano Anderson's Joker tattoo.

But you saw more than 20 Joker tattoos.

And so why, why Juan Toscano Anderson?

Like, I know he won a championship with the Warriors.

He was the Lakers last season.

He just signed to the G-League team in Mexico City, I believe.

What about his tattoo gets the gold medal for you?

So Juan Toscano Anderson has three Jokers playing poker.

It's clearly, I hope, inspired by the dogs playing poker painting.

I would have to believe.

It's on his calf, and it's from left to right.

It is the Heath Ledger Joker, of course.

The Jack Nicholson Joker, which for a guy who played on the Lakers last season,

that should have won him a lot of curried a lot of favor.

I agree.

Also, the Jack Joker is wearing sunglasses.

Yeah, so it is like he is courtside or just came from courtside to play this game of poker.

The third joker is the Jared Leto Joker, the one who thought it was a nice idea to send a rat to Margo Robbie.

I'm just going to hurt you

really,

really

bad.

So what about so this approach, though, I'm going to honor the lineage of jokers.

Sure.

This is rare.

We don't see this, Wyatt.

And this is something I talked about with Juan.

I did watch a lot of superhero movies.

I did watch a lot of cartoons growing up.

And I'm familiar with the majority of older cartoons and superheroes.

What was his explanation as for why these three jokers were three things he needed tattooed on his body in this way?

So he saw the image and thought it looked cool.

And here's the thing about tattoos.

You know, not all of them have a serious meaning.

Sometimes people just get tattoos to be a little silly.

And it felt like this was a mix of, oh,

there's a bit of whimsy here, but it also speaks to that Joker mentality that he feels

drives, has driven a lot of.

His career and the path that it took for him to get to the NBA.

Sometimes as athletes, like

we are the villains and there's a little bit of f you

that we want to say, but us being role models, we really can't.

Us being on a platform and, you know,

being in the public eye, there's just a lot of things that you can't say and you can't do.

And I think

just the art itself and like being able to like,

you know, relate to the Joker, it's like, it's our way of expressing ourselves.

So that feels a little bit like

Nicholson, like a Jack Nicholson joker.

Sure.

Like he's a famous guy who just wants to wear shades and occasionally say f you to people.

Yeah.

And one of the things he talked about

when he was saying, you know, sometimes we become the villain,

he was talking about it on a few different levels, one of which was

the moment you get to the league, whatever professional sport you play,

that you have a lot of people from your life, from your hometown, from your neighborhood, who start coming around and they might look at you like a meal ticket.

I've gotten to a point where I can't really tell my side of the story, so I'm always going to be the villain.

Um, and I feel like when you're

in a place of success, and more often than not, you're the wealthiest person in your circle and in your family, like you get vilified for you know, saying no to people, you know, doing certain things for yourself.

And there's a certain amount of,

oh, I can't, I can't save everybody.

And it does feel like Juan Tescano Anderson, hearing your conversation with him, is kind of frustrated by the fact that he's on this crazy roller coaster trajectory.

My

feeling of the Joker, like, when people like shit on me in real life, because like, I don't have a deal right now.

Like, I'm a free agent right now.

I mean, I've been cut by teams.

I'm an NBA champion.

I've started in the NBA.

I've been on the bench in the NBA.

Like I've gone through every, you know, emotion.

He won a title.

He was with the Lakers.

Now he's trying to get back to the NBA through the G-League in another country.

Right.

And he sort of feels alone.

Yeah.

But when like people who are not in the NBA, when they on me, I'm just

talking about me about like not playing or like, oh,

you got lucky, you made it to the NBA.

I'm like, man, I was just walking around the streets of Oakland and, you know, X, Y, and Z city, just being a normal citizen, just like you were.

I just decided to like do X, Y, and Z to get to this point.

And that's where I feel like my Joker also comes in life, where it's just like,

y'all, because

y'all, like,

you know, I worked hard to get here.

You did it.

You sat on your ass and didn't put the work in.

But I can't say that publicly, you know?

I can't go on my platform and say that, or I can't say that to people who message me.

So, like I said, my way of self-expression is

that, and the Joker helps me.

So, just for the record, Juan Toscano Anderson,

you are always welcome to say f you to whoever you want on Pablo Torre finds out.

And he wasn't that, you know, top 10 draft pick.

He wasn't someone that people had been tracking.

And so there is a little of

that

thing of the Joker as this underdog.

Yes, and this misunderstood weirdo who sees the world a little differently and thinks he is right.

And

granted, for the Joker,

his version of what is right is chaos,

you can see how someone who has had the path

that Juan Toscano Anderson has had might see their presence in the NBA as a bit of that chaos.

That I'm not the person you expected to be here.

And now, look, I'm here.

I have an NBA championship.

I've accomplished all of these things you didn't think was possible for me.

And

I also have to deal with continually

getting doubted by

people online who

still don't think I belong in this place.

See to them.

You're just a freak.

And so, yeah, there's a bit of kind of

having to say,

yeah,

I

notice me

and notice me, Batman, because I'm here.

I mean,

in that sense, the Joker is kind of the ultimate undrafted free agent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, yeah, that's the thing is the Joker, the Joker wasn't one of Batman's drafted villains.

Yeah, The Joker didn't go to Duke.

No.

Oh, God.

He was not a blue chip villain at all.

He's, I mean, even everything in his background is,

you know, struggling comedian who winds up, you know, falling into a thing of acid

because he's doing petty crime.

And it's not, and it was just to make ends meet.

Like he's just, he is very much a G-League player and then he becomes the Joker and it allows him entry into the pro sports version of Gotham crime correct and and now yeah he is he's dropping 40 in the Arkham league yeah he's Jon Starks he's you know he is that guy that oh yeah nobody they were just yeah you were just bagging groceries and now you're like I feel like now you're dunking on Superman yeah I feel like those are the people

who should get the Joker tattoos so that's the thing about want to Scano Anderson Wyatt now that I think about it right so there is this element of bootstraps pulled myself up by them sure but also respectability politics basketball absolutely but also it's the idea of like him I love that he's unapologetic about this like he's he's on some level saying a very clear level f you I don't like you.

And I want to signal that.

It's the idea.

It's the original concept we talked about.

He wants you to see this as a red flag.

He's like, by the way, I'm the guy with the fing joker tattoo.

There are actually three Jokers on my tattoo.

Yeah.

Stop asking me for money.

Right.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he also has a second Joker tattoo.

Wait, what?

Yeah, that was something I learned while we were talking.

He has the three Jokers playing poker, but then he also has a Joker Smile on his thigh.

Which Joker Smile sounds like it should be a Hollin Oates, like a weird Al,

a Weird Al cover of Sarah Smile by Hollin Oates,

which if there's any way that Pablo Torre could find out whether Weird Al

would do Joker Smile, I feel like that would be a great button to all of us.

Yeah, we're on it.

All All right.

We're on that.

I have to wonder how much of Weird Al Yankovic's life is just politely nodding as

people suggest songs to him, songs he can parody, where they're just like,

hey, Weirdo,

you should do formation.

You should do Beyonce's formation, but

it could be

rotation, and it's just about rotisserie chicken.

Come on, man.

You should do that.

And he's like, it's very nice to meet you.

Thank you.

I'll keep that under advisement.

What weird Al needs, you know what he needs in response to that to keep those people at bay.

A Joker tattoo?

He means a Joker tattoo.

The idea of Joker as like, again, this is very on the nose for our episode today, Joker as inkblot test.

Yeah.

Rorschach test of like, you see what you see.

Von Miller sees one thing, Wontoscano Anderson says f you to that thing, sees his own thing.

George Kittle sees, you know, not helping out.

Yeah, just a day before his wedding.

His fiance.

Yeah.

I mean, you've now become the world's foremost expert on Joker tattoos.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for that.

I know

you've been working your whole career

towards this designation.

It's not the Emmys.

It's not.

It's not the Grammy nomination.

Yeah, nope, nope, nope, nope, none of that.

It's none of that.

It's the fact that you now, Wyatt, get the power of the Pablo Torre finds out graphics budget.

Like,

what Joker tattoo would you design for yourself at the very end here, now that you've done this survey of all of the possibilities?

I mean,

A,

while I understand it, I wouldn't want a Joker tattoo.

So I just want to preface it with that.

You have your principles.

Right.

But in this new world order that we are all going to be trapped in, where everyone has to get a Joker tattoo.

Correct.

That's what I'm imposing upon you.

That's the condition of the title you got, unfortunately.

Well, and also it seems like in this...

As the Joker grows, it's just going to be a thing that babies will be born and they will be given Joker tattoos.

They won't be given names.

They'll just, it'll just be a thing where we identify one another by Heath Ledger Joker tattoos.

That said,

if I was going to get a Joker tattoo, I would get Cesar Romero.

There was an episode of the old Batman show where Batman and the Joker got into a surfing contest.

And

that is, that's the Joker I like.

That he just just showed up.

There was a surfing contest, and the Joker showed up and was like, I want to enter.

I'm going to surf in a full suit.

Joker's shuffling.

Now he's coming back to meet the curl.

He caught it.

He's riding the hook.

Batman can't be Joker.

But watch him proxy squad.

Look there!

The shot!

And so if I had to get a Joker tattoo, it would be surfing joker.

On where?

Like you're talking chest tat?

I gotta now actually put it somewhere.

It's okay if you want to say it's a tramp stamp.

No, I mean, now that you've offered Joker tattoo surfing as a tramp stamp, I mean, the other option is you go kind of Tupac style over the belly, like, you know, wait.

And so, and, and so it just,

that is obviously the right answer.

Yeah, I think it's just kind of like surfing over my tummy.

Only Joker can judge me around around the belly button.

Yeah, I think, I think it's, I think that, that could be a fun one.

Wyatt's an Ak, thank you for

hanging 10 with us.

On, I think,

the dumbest show we've ever done.

Hey, and you've done a number of shows at this point.

That is a high watermark.

I am on behalf of me and me, Batman.

We're both very.

I just left for a second.

What happened?

What?

This is all very visible on YouTube and the Draftings Network.

He was here.

We do know he was here.

And you know what?

I found out today, Wyatt, at the very end here, is that there is one thing that batman who we met today yeah and caesar romero's joker both love

surfing they love waves yeah

underneath the do-rag cow yeah oh yes oh those waves yes sorry oh my gosh i normally pride myself on being

being uh being alert and you got me yeah so proud of it that was a good one yeah oh

geez.

Oh, shit.

That's, I feel bad.

That was you.

You

stuck the landing there, and I

it took me a second.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Metalark media production.

And I'll talk to you next time.

Julian Edlow here from DK Network.

Tune in to DKN Daily Bets Monday through Friday, a fun, quick-hitting podcast where we bring in knowledgeable guests from across the sports betting industry to break down our favorite bets of the day.

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