The Art of the Improv Alley-Oop with Ben Schwartz

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

There's a lot to show up to today.

Who you're going to find?

Pablo Torre.

Right after this ad.

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

I'm rolling right here.

I'm going to make sure.

Okay.

This is it.

We're starting.

Now we're talking for real.

We're real boys talking.

Ben,

I thank you for coming onto a show that you know nothing about.

I don't.

I know the person who hosts it, and that much was exciting enough for me.

But outside of that, I have no idea what's going to happen.

I feel like it's going to be Survivor.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

There is a, what is it called at the end?

You get an immunity thing.

What happens?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you can win.

I think you and I obviously both know everything about survivor when we're like you get an immunity thing at the end

All right, so you may know Ben Schwartz from any number of Hollywood things, like The After Party, which he started on Apple TV Plus.

He's also the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog in the Sonic movies.

He was also obviously this moron on Parks and Rec.

Tommy T, you just missed the craziest of crazies.

Clubs, girls dancing, naked, mom, argument, police fleeing the seat, hiding in a dumpster, coming here, crashing on your couch for a week because technically I'm homeless.

Hey, moustache, I'm gonna hit the couch.

You know I'll be.

Ben's also written for SNL and Letterman and Robot Chicken and many, many other things.

But I find Ben most interesting because the thing he loves doing and does as well as anyone I've ever seen is what you might have actual nightmares about.

Because Ben Schwartz loves running out onto a stage in front of thousands upon thousands of people with nothing prepared, nothing scripted.

And he'll just improvise an entire hour-long show with his friends.

Radio City Music Hall makes a noise for Ben!

Show more.

But the way I got to know Ben

was in a completely different context.

You and I got to know each other because in February 2021, we got really into NBA Top Shot.

Yeah, Amir Blumenfeld, I think who you know, is a huge top shot guy.

He was from Jacob Amir from College Humor.

Now they run Headgum, that podcast company.

And he, the way that it started for me was he said, um, he goes, I'm having the best time on this thing.

You remember collecting cards?

And I was like, yeah, it's my favorite.

It's like, I used to love collecting cards.

I have Marvel cards, I have basketball cards.

I still like collect.

And then he's like, it's like that, but on the internet.

For fans who got to witness LeBron James' dunk against the Houston Rockets, it might have been a priceless moment.

But for NBA top shot collectors like Michael Levy, right now that dunk is worth almost $400,000.

They're called moments.

Think trading cards, but entirely digital.

I said, amazing.

He goes, you got to buy this.

You got to buy this Miles Bridges card.

It's going up like crazy.

You buy it now.

I go, what do you mean?

He goes, it's like stocks kind of.

And I was like, okay.

I go, I like the idea of like opening a pack.

And so he said, no, you got it.

So I buy a Mile Bridges card for whatever, immediately lose $100.

Like immediately.

Like the next moment lost $100.

But then I started opening packs and I loved that.

And then instead of holding on to it because who knows how, you know, you never know when things are going to lose, I would trade immediately if I got a good card and I was always able to break even.

So like I made maybe 100 or 200 bucks, but like,

it was so funny the way that I got into it was Amir's like, you got to ride this, like almost like a stock.

He's like, you got to get this Mil Bridges.

And I got it.

And it immediately went down the next day.

Yeah.

Not a great investment, that one, it turned out.

No, and I mean, listen, if you want to get Amir on this podcast, I think he has a lot of money tied up in Top Shot right now, which I don't think is going to be lucrative for him.

So, part of the reason I bring this up is that big picture, I should say, that there was a report that came out this month that announced that 95% of people holding NFT collections, so non-fungible tokens.

This is what Top Shots are.

This is what we're describing these digital trading cards, as well as like board apes and so forth, all that.

Yes.

23 million people, that's 95% of those holding NFT collections, had investments that were now worth $0.

zero dollars.

We got to get Amir on the line.

I know.

We got to get Amir on the line.

Can you call Amir right now?

I can pop him on there if you want.

It'll take one second to get him on the phone.

I mean, let's try.

You want me to?

Yeah, we can put them on speaker.

Let's just see what that's going to do.

I'll put them on speakerphone.

I'm on a

there.

You go.

I'm on Pablo's show.

Okay.

Amir.

He can hear you.

Amir.

He can hear you.

And we're talking about

top shot investments.

So we're just, so Pablo, the stat that Pablo said is that these NFTs

have dropped so drastically that a lot of them have zeroed out.

So the question we wanted to ask you is, how is your top shot collection going?

And do you have any, do you want to talk about it all just for two seconds?

I've made close to eight figures in just top shot.

Eight figures?

You're talking about tens of millions of dollars?

Yeah, well, I started with nine figures.

You started with nine figures.

How much did you invest?

Do you want to talk about how much you've invested or now's not the time?

I'm on the toilet, but I would say I

cryptocurrency, so I feel

sort of justified my position there.

So I should say, Ben, it does look like angle-wise he is on the toilet, truly.

Just for the...

You are on the toilet.

Is this fine to...

You are.

We can take this out, I guess, Amir, but you look great.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, I didn't know this was a live stream.

It's not a live stream.

It's not a live stream.

It's not a live stream.

But he may be.

We can edit it out whenever we're going to be.

No, we're not going to edit that out.

He might be actually live streaming, though,

into his toilet.

I didn't know you were on the toilet.

It's kind of funny that you're on the toilet.

It's sort of a metaphor for Tommy.

Is there anything you want to add, Pablo?

You have to do that.

Perfect point.

Perfect point.

Yeah, I love this show, too.

Congratulations.

Good work on the new show.

Thank you.

See, Amir knows what it is, Ben.

What is it?

He's in my ears.

Explain to me what it is and explain to me what his name is.

You know what?

Don't do that.

That's now awkward for me.

for me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a new podcast.

It's a new podcast.

Okay.

Do you want to plug headgun while you're here?

It's okay.

Okay.

All right.

Have a great day.

Thanks, Amir.

All right.

He's gone.

Well, Amir, Amir provided an excellent segue, which is that it is a metaphor for Top Shot, the toilet he was sitting upon.

I do remember I tried to wire transfer the money out and I tried four times, four separate times, and every time it said it didn't work.

So I don't have any cryptocurrency.

I'm not invested in anything.

The only NFT-ish that I'm invested in is Top Shot.

And I almost always, I just always stayed even.

I didn't want to lose money on it.

So like, I have a little bit of money in there that I'm trying to get back.

And it is near impossible

to get it back.

This was a complaint about Top Shot, it was really hard to withdraw money.

So by the way, I just want to point out that as of February 2021, like Zion Williamson, a 13-second Zion Williamson highlight, did go for like $100,000.

Whoa.

There were people who actually were making seven figures legitimately, buying and selling, opening packs that contained, um, yeah, highlights that anybody had access to, but were presented, framed as digital modern trading cards.

And then

the idea was fun.

Right.

And so we, we, we were in lines together, like waiting rooms together, like digital lines.

I think I went on to be able to do that.

It's because I'm so you're like me.

Yes.

You, you, you loved.

I mean, growing up, uh, it was one of my favorite things in the world to open up a pack of basketball cards.

It was one, it was the best, and like to try to get like, you know, a rookie card or try to get a special hologram card or something like that.

It was like, it was the best.

So, so I thought, oh, this could be the adult version of that.

Um, and it felt like it for a little bit.

Uh, we all would uh FaceTime together and open up our packs together.

Like, we would Zoom and share each other's screens, yes, and then we would all explain what we got, and it was really fun, and then uh, it wasn't fun anymore.

No, then if you're like me, you have an unpurchased Bismac Biombo layup

that I priced out at $50,000 that no one has purchased.

I remember like when I just, the game was then just lowering it to $1 above what it was selling for and trying to just sell my stuff.

But I think I broke even.

And then when all the stuff that I had was really inexpensive, I was just like, I'm just going to keep it because there's always a chance it comes back.

Like it's there.

Yeah.

Instead of making like $5 off of an entire collection, why don't I just, you know, let it sit for a couple years and see what happens.

But I was trying to cash out all the stuff that I sold.

This is mostly a show about getting Ben Schwartz his liquidity, his top shot liquidity back.

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What is wait?

Can I tell you the wait, Pablo?

I'm going to tell you what.

The first time I saw this show, I follow you on Twitter.

Yes.

Someone had posted something, and then right below the post was you being like, my man, why don't you give credit to where you got this information from?

This was sad.

And there was, and there was my boy Pablo.

It was sad.

Just trying to be like, this, so that's literally how I was like, oh, he must have his own show.

I have, for everybody who has blamed me for over-promoting this show, this is why I promote this show.

What was it again?

What was it again?

I was mad.

This is even sadder.

And now it brings us back to Hollywood, Ben, because I had my friend Stephen Glover, Donald's brother, right around Atlanta, all that stuff.

I love Stephen Glover.

I was on an improv team with Donald for

six, seven years called Jobs at UCB.

And his brother would come in

and check out the show, but his brother's a genius.

The writing he's done on his television show, I think, is one of the most incredible i'm so blown away by it and so stephen came on stephen's a friend of mine for 10 years now stephen came on and clarified that the thing they're doing for star wars him and donald oh yes is a movie

we're not allowed to talk about but yes but anyway

i was yelling i remembered exactly i was yelling at some star wars aggregator meme account credit me because they had aggregated it without linking back i saw you underneath being like come on my man my man my man yeah yeah yeah and that's i was like oh, I think Pablo has his own show.

I can't wait to read more.

You saw the equivalent of me standing outside the gates of a manor with like a tin can being banged with a cane.

Just like, sir, sir, please.

Is there a world?

So like you, I feel like you are firmly established in the sports world.

Are you trying, is there.

Is your goal with this to be like, you know what?

Not only do I do this, I want to talk about everything.

I think it's just about my actual curiosities.

And so you've provided me a couple of segues, Ben.

You doing improv with Donald.

So I should say that, like, you two guys, I am, I've been embarrassed to say this to you, even though we've known each other now for a couple of years in this very strange way, that I've been like watching you do improv for like 15 years.

Really?

So I would watch you at UCB Theater in Manhattan, right?

When were you at UCB?

I was there from 2003 to 2009.

Exactly.

So I would see you doing like ASCAT, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And I was an intern.

I was an intern at ASCAT.

I used to hand out tickets and do the garbage to afford classes.

So

I was watching you do improv then.

In fact, I remember seeing Donald doing improv at UCB.

Or I don't know why you maybe, but the point is, I would say you and Donald

are...

Like, again, I haven't seen everybody, but

you, Ben Schwartz, have a superpower.

And the superpower is improv.

You just sold out Radio City doing it, and I'm glad to now tell you that, like, I have many questions about the superpower that you have.

So just to explain to people what improv even is, I feel like long-form improv.

Exactly.

So explain for people who maybe are kind of aware, maybe they've seen like whose line is it anyway, what it is that you do.

Sure.

So Whose Line Is It Anyway is a show that I watch coming up and I love so much.

It's a short form improv show, which you do a a series of games, and those guys are brilliant, like Colin Mockri and like Wayne Brady,

all those guys I remember watching when I was a kid and loving.

When I was in college, I did short form, and then

when I graduated college, I started taking classes at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater, which is a long form improv,

long-form improv theater.

So what that means is you get a suggestion up top, and then we make up an entire show.

So if you're talking about Ben Schwartz and Friends, which is my current show, I talk to someone in the audience, me and three of my friends, and we make up an entire hour-long show based off the conversation that we have with the audience member.

There are no quick games, and if we're doing it well,

if you're doing it well, then it feels like it's written and it feels like almost like a play.

You're like, How are they doing this?

It feels like magic when it's great because you can't believe that we're making it up.

We'll have a scene that ends, but that scene will somehow connect into all the other scenes, and all these characters kind of converge and all that stuff.

So, that's what I do, and it's always been at 99 person theaters.

They call it black box theaters, which are all the walls are painted black, Upright Citizens Brigade underneath Christidis and stuff like that.

And so it's like, it's done for 100.

And what Thomas and I wanted to do when we were touring Middleton Schwartz,

we wanted to show people that it doesn't have to be there.

So we started doing Largo, then we started touring and doing bigger venues.

And then after that, I did with Ben Schwartz and friends.

I started doing more venues and bigger venues.

There was never the goal to do Radio City because it didn't seem possible.

I'm even quoted on Pete Holmes' podcast as to say, like, he goes, you can do Radio City one day.

This is years ago.

And I go, no, I'm not John Mulaney.

I can't sell out Radio City.

And then, you know, cut to literally a week and a half ago, we sold out Radio City.

The first ever long form improv group or improv group to headline that theater ever.

So 6,000 people and every seat was taken up.

So it kind of blows my mind.

It feels too surreal to even compute.

But what I'm starting to learn now is that by doing these shows for so many people, I'm introducing long form to thousands and thousands of people for the first time.

It's crazy.

It's been a very crazy and fun ride, and it's always kind of been on the side for my writing and acting.

Like, this is the thing I do for fun.

Yeah, you're my leaf

voice actor, actor, writer.

You have a truly like unrelenting resume.

There are many, many like Hollywood stars, like huge names that have come through the craft, right?

Like Bill Murray, of course.

Tina Fey, Mike Myers, they were all improvisers.

So you're in a lineage, but you're kind

you're kind of introducing it to people, the genre itself.

Yeah,

you're right.

Like Amy Poehler is the person who created the Upright Citizen Brigade Theater with Matt Besser and Matt Walsh and Ian Roberts.

And so like those people to me are like icons.

And they learned from a guy named Del Close in Chicago who taught Bill Murray and all the guys that you named.

So it's like

you're right.

It's been around, but it's now, it's never been toured to audiences of this size.

Part of the reason why I love it is because it is the very thing that I think lots of people, including some comedians, I would imagine, identify as like an active nightmare.

Like you're on a stage.

A lot of stand-ups make fun of it.

Well, the stand-up improv dynamic.

Please explain that.

I find stand-up to be hard, really hard.

I tried it for like, I did like 10 or 12 times and I found it to be so hard and so isolating.

And like when I failed, I really failed.

What was the idea of what was failure like as a stand-up for you?

How vividly do you remember that?

So lonely, really vividly because it's the beginning.

It's before I knew how to be on stage.

So I was doing doing a show at Boston Comedy Club and I did the bringer show twice.

And then they said, you know what?

You can come and you don't have to bring people for the next one.

And I was like, oh my God, this is going to be amazing.

And I got on stage.

I was so tired from work.

I was a page at Letterman at the time.

I came right from work and I hadn't slept because in the morning I write jokes for Letterman 2.

And so I was like,

I got to stage and my first two jokes bombed.

Not one person left.

And I was like, and my whole body, like, I felt like, I felt like I felt hollow.

I felt like bones.

I was just like, I just felt terrible.

I felt terrible.

To fail by yourself was really sad.

Also, to succeed by yourself was not as exciting as I'm, I love playing basketball.

I love being a part of a team.

And like, so to write sketches or to improvise with all of us, together we build something and it's not just what I'm thinking, but this person's going to make it better.

And I don't know what's going to happen.

I loved it.

And my mind really went towards it.

But that part is the part that reminds me of sports.

Like there is, I think, unlike anything else in entertainment, like the argument I want to make to you, and I wonder if it resonates, is that improv has qualities that remind me of sports in ways that nothing else in comedy does.

I think that's exactly correct.

And the way that I pick my teams when I go out is exactly that.

I'm looking for a point guard.

I'm looking for a power forward.

I'm looking for, so like if I bring

different people, I know they have different skill sets.

So it's like, and I know where I can fit and how I can adjust my skills to better help the team.

In improv, I'm always trying to make the person opposite me look better.

That's like my goal.

And like, so if I can make Drew Tarver look better or like, you know, Mary Holland, anything, but I also know what these people are really, really good at.

And I was like, oh, if I mix these, this little, you know, like if I use this person, this person, we're going to get a totally different show than if I get three people who are really heavy on characters, who love coming out as crazy characters.

So I got to make sure that I play with my teams correctly, I think.

Yeah.

Well, look, there's, there's legitimately

unscripted, completely unscripted live action.

There is this team dynamic that you've just described, but the idea of you trying to figure out, okay, to make the analogy to a basketball team, we need people who can move the ball.

We need people

who can finish an alley oop, right?

Like what you're really doing there.

Absolutely.

What you're doing there, which I love, is also like

you're being very sensitive to ego, right?

Like on some level, ego to me is the thing in sports that is so complicated.

Look at any locker room dynamic, that's what ruins dynasties as well as creates them, right?

But for you,

how does confidence and ego fit into how you do the job of professional long-form improviser?

The best improvisers, the ones that I love the most are the ones that can share the ball exactly.

Everybody on stage with me is undeniably funny.

Everybody on stage can be the leader of their own sitcom.

Anybody, you know, like all those, they're all incredible.

They for me, they have to be really good at exactly finishing all the or if this scene means for them to be the straight man, then they have to be the straight man in that scene.

But like if I take three people who are like exactly what i say like if you have so uh someone could be really funny but not the best person to play with because all they want to do is score all they want to do is get every single laugh this is what i was going to ask you ben um can there be in your mind as gm and and player on the team can there be a kobe bryant in improv can there be an iso like clear out i got this like that mentality of i'm the star i need the ball get out of the way does that

How does that work?

I think it would be hard.

It's easier to have that in sketch.

I think it would be hard.

Listen, if someone's undeniably funny, you could always do a show with them and I could just always set them up.

You know what I mean?

Like I'll always like, I'll give Kobe the ball every time.

But the magic in the show itself wouldn't be as exciting because we're not all doing it together.

It's just like, you know, something like that.

But I think that's a good question.

I think people could get in the way of the show when they're just looking out for themselves.

I love sports and basketball and improv so much, and there's no place that combines the two.

Like, I've been doing this for 22 years, and this is the first time ever that I'm talking to someone that, like, really wants to learn about it and also loves sports and can see.

I love being on a team and completing something together.

Cause when I'm writing, I'm writing by myself.

And you're like, when I'm acting, I think one of the things that I bring to the table is I love playing in a scene.

I love trying to make the person opposite me look better.

Whatever the scene needs, I can kind of help with hopefully.

But also, I like scoring too.

So, like, if I see a place where I could stand out or steal a scene where it doesn't get in the way of anything and it helps the movie,

I'll see, you know, I'll try to find that stuff too.

My God, I can't wait to see which place rips you off and you're being like, what the hell is going on?

Don't rip this video off.

Ben Schwartz says that Kobe Bryant never would have made it in comedy.

That's me.

I do a show called Ben Schwartz and Friends, and it used to be called Snowpants, and I used to bring people who've never done it before.

The best performer in Snowpants was Blake Griffin.

He did it three times, and he was unbelievable at long-form improv.

Wait, so follow-up question, because I've heard that Blake Griffin is like the funniest athlete, but I've always assumed that we're grading on a curve, right?

It's like, ah, he's funny for an athlete, right?

But you're telling me that.

We did a show, and Zach Woods was there, who I think is one of the best improvisers ever.

We did a show and it was others, first or second time ever doing improv.

And this is when I was hanging out with him a bunch.

And he's like, I find him to be so funny.

And so,

backstage, Zach Woods looks at him and goes,

pulls me aside and goes, it's not fair.

It's not fair that he could like be so good at basketball, but do our nerdy thing too.

He's like also handsome and tall, and he could do our nerdy thing.

He's sincerely very good at it.

He did it twice in a group of six.

And then one of my shows canceled on me and I had nobody.

And I texted him and he came to the theater and it was me, him and one other person.

We did a three-person three-person show for an hour and he crushed.

He was, it's,

he's so, he was amazing.

Like, I know he does stand-up, but he's, man, was he good at improv.

I was so impressed.

It does feel unfair when the person can literally finish an alley oop.

Like, you should be able to do that both figuratively and literally.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I agree with that.

Give me, though, what it's like to listen while you're doing this.

Because to me, I'm trying to like, the other reason I'm fascinated by you and improv is because I think anybody who communicates professionally in any way,

if they're curious or want to get better, watching you work is such an interesting thing.

Because what I watch you do is actively listen.

Like, I want to make this kind of more specific because you're generally describing, like, okay, how do I create architecture out of utter chaos such that by the end of this thing, there is some sort of through line or narrative or callback or breadcrumb that I've dropped that I then pick up later.

What that tells me is that Ben Schwartz is listening with like bat ears all of the time.

Listening is the biggest thing.

You have to listen and you have to be okay with what happens sometimes is it's called an initiation when I start a scene.

So let's say with me and you, one of the scenes that I'm starting is, I have no idea.

Let's say it's, we're about to play basketball together or I'm drafting my basketball team and you want to be picked or something like that.

And I'm like, okay, who do I want to pick?

Me starting it being like, okay.

So, um, all right, so there's only one, we can only pick one more person and then you're on the line, like trying to be picked or whatever.

Like, and I'm trying to figure out who it should be, you know, so that's initiation, me starting the scene.

Um, someone else can come in with initiation as well.

And this happens all the time because when two people come on stage, they both have ideas.

One of them has to just shut up and let their thing go.

Exactly.

Because whoever, whoever talks first wins.

So if I have the best initiation in the world, I'll let it go because this person started and I want to say yes to whatever they're saying.

I want to show them, I got their back.

Whatever they say, I'm going to jump on.

I'm not going to make it this if that makes sense so what i'm doing is i'm listening always and also um if i have initiation in my head and it goes somewhere else i let it go wherever it goes wherever it feels like but also on the back line i'm thinking when i'm interviewing the person in the beginning i'm listening and i'm trying to take nuggets that i can use like characters or or like uh places like or just you know like feelings or them just like understanding what the audience is laughing at.

But I also do it in my real life.

I love when I'm sitting down with someone, I will listen 80% of the time.

I never have to talk about myself.

If they ask questions, I will, but

I love learning about people.

I was a psychology, anthropology major.

I think that's why you and I like, we like talking to people because we like to learn.

I like, I like human beings.

I like being around people.

So it's like

I'm always ready to listen and only talk when it feels necessary that I can add something.

But the idea of always saying yes, the whole yes and concept.

Could you explain that for people, again, who aren't like familiar with

going to improv shows?

Sure.

So let's say, Pablo, do us, do it.

It doesn't have to be good.

There's no pressure.

Just start any scene in the world and I'll tell you the incorrect way of handling it.

So

start anything.

Don't be nervous.

I know that you've come to a bunch of shows, but it doesn't matter.

Anything you say is fine.

Just don't ask a question.

Okay.

Oh my God.

I cannot believe that I left the stove on.

You didn't leave the stove on.

So if I say no to you, I've taken your idea and it's gone.

The scene is gone.

The energy is gone.

Now you have to pretend like, oh, I guess I didn't.

But if you say, do the same thing, ready?

Yeah, go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I cannot believe I left the stove on.

Oh my God, I had pasta on there.

How long has the stove been on?

Like, so now it's like, I take your idea and I'm explaining like a pasta on there.

Now, slowly we're going to find out why maybe we have a big date tonight or something like that.

But now we're building.

We're slowly building a scene together.

And, you know, as we keep adding, you would say something, we're adding it.

And now we can play with something.

We find what is called, and I think this is what you're referring to.

We find the game of the scene.

Yes, yes.

So within the scene, we find the game of the scene.

So the game of the scene, maybe if we keep going, oh my God, I passed it tonight.

And you're like, oh, it's going to be, you'll be fine.

Dude, it'll be fine.

It's totally burnt.

Like you can make it into blank.

So now it's like, how do we turn this bad thing into a good thing type thing?

Yep.

But

saying yes to it and adding to it gives us a place to go and build a scene together.

Saying no to an idea stops it and makes you makes your partner feel stupid for offering an idea.

So it's like, I'm sure it's the same.

By the way, you have to be so good at that when you're doing your talking heads in the room for all of your sports stuff.

Like you have to be listening.

I was going to say that I think about improv a lot, not because I'm trying to do comedy when I give takes on sports, but because I'm always thinking about, A, the other person who I'm ostensibly choosing.

Okay.

Am I.

arguing, saying no to them, or am I saying yes and going off on hopefully a riff with them that gets us to a place that feels, by the way, like to me, there's this fork in the road every time you do a sports debate on television.

It's, am I going to say no?

And we're going to now hash it out and we're going to make this a thing that jeopardizes either of our egos?

Or is this going to be a thing in which we're going to find the game of the scene in which like, but now we're building on this mutually?

And

part of me feels like, again, Stephen A.

Smith says no a lot.

right in his seats.

Yes.

And he's he's the greatest.

So I don't want to say that's how you do it wrong.

But always love when there's the waterfall cascade of just like, and now we're just making jokes that build on each other.

And that part

there is a, but you're describing, I think, a generosity that I think of, that I aspire to in conversation as a human.

Like, I'm not here to just be a yes man, although we are literally being that in this, in this context.

I think about it being sensitive to how this can be really fun for every person in this room.

So like, what do you, what, what was your like, uh,

what was your statement, your mission statement, your Jerry McGuire mission statement when you started this?

Yeah, I wanted to have fun with people that I like and people that I find interesting.

And so the reason I'm having you on is, is not, you don't need to be a psychoanalyst to like realize why I'm particularly interested in how you do what you do, because that's the version, that's like the spiritual sort of North Star that I have is like, oh, I want to spontaneously

do stuff that feels to people like, wow, that's a high-level version of me

with my friends, you know, just like talking to friends.

Or in Mimir's case, literally

literally, honestly,

yeah.

Yes, yes, yes.

I can't imagine he won't text me and tell me, please don't put that on the air.

Give me the sense of what it feels like when improv is going well.

Because there's no net, right?

This is the other thing about improv, why I'm obsessed with it kind of, is that there's danger.

There is great danger.

You don't have a script.

Even if you do a play, right?

Plays are very scary for actors because they're live performances, but they're literally scripted performances.

In this case, there is no net.

And so when it's going well, what does that feel like inside of your brain that is processing quite a bit that people are not necessarily hearing?

It's amazing.

The biggest thing is, and I think it's something that you

do incredible with, is you have to be in the moment.

You cannot be thinking of anything else than what is happening in that very moment because you'd lose track of the whole show and there's too much to juggle.

So it's like, when it's going well, it's just the best feeling.

It's like you're getting our laughter when we have shows is non-stop.

It's every, you know, couple of seconds, every five, six seconds.

It's like if we're doing it right, they're just rolling and we're just, we're just rolling.

It's, it's a crazy feeling.

But when I did

Radio City, Josh Groban has done a singer, great singer, has done Radio City a bunch of times.

And he's like,

he goes, I can't believe you're going up there with nothing.

Like, you're going up there with nothing.

What's throwing up a brick in improv like?

Oh my God, it's terrifying.

It's, I feel fortunate that it hasn't happened in a long time, but if you have a scene that's going poorly and you can't get out of it, like it's just, there's nobody's really like back in the day, man, it would happen all the time.

We'd be in a scene, the audience isn't laughing.

It just feels like work.

It feels like hard work.

You're just like trying to find anything to make anybody laugh or care and then you're trying to also if a scene's going poorly you're trying to find any button to get out of it but i have such skilled improvisers with me that someone always makes it hilarious that's where having like

kobe skills helps someone is just so funny that they can make that scene have enough comedy to keep it alive or to give me a place to get the hell out of the scene.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I was thinking of a quote from the NFL this past weekend.

So the Bengals are terrible and their star wide receiver, Jamar Chase, is being interviewed after the game.

And he's like, is it frustrated to not be as open this year?

And his response is, he's always open.

No, I'm open.

I'm always open.

I'm always open.

And the idea of like, so I should retract my previous statement, right?

Like there is a safety net and it's your teammates.

It's having a guy who you should theoretically be able to just throw it to, even if he's super covered, like wildly, seemingly inaccessible.

You just know you can throw it in his direction generally.

That's right.

Help me.

That's exactly correct.

It's like, help, help.

And also, I'm that person that helps somebody.

So it's like,

it always switches.

It's like, okay, what are we doing here?

Let's figure something out.

You know what I mean?

I'm sure you're live editing all the time.

Do you remember?

Can you remember a response that you did that quote unquote bombed or put you in a terrible position where you're like, I hate that I'm talking about this still?

How do I get the hell out of here?

Yeah.

Remember specifically?

Oh my God.

The first, one of the first times I did Around the Horn.

So like one of ESPN's most popular television shows.

And so literally one of the first episodes I ever did of Around the Horn, the topic was the 49ers quarterback controversy.

And it was, this was

a real thing for you.

You're feeling

here.

Oh, so already I'm palpably just sort of reliving the awkwardness of, and this was pre-Colin Kaepernick being a revelatory like race relations figure.

This is just him as a quarterback with the Niners.

And so it's who should start, Alex Smith or Colin Kaepernick.

And I just remember being so nervous on Around the Horn that when it came back to me, the only thing I could say was,

Everybody's ganging up on you.

Boom.

Alex Smith, man.

That's it, Alex Smith, man.

Alex Smith, man.

And then I just shook my head.

I was assuming.

I was assuming one of my teammates was going to come in and just like, I thought I was out of time.

I thought the horn was already sounding, but I stopped short, which is like a

sin to stop short and leave silence and to have nothing but Alex Smith.

How How did they respond?

Everybody laughed in a way that has haunted me for over a decade.

And all I had to respond to someone else was Alex

Smith, comma man.

Hard period.

How do you deal with a public failure?

And then I remember one time

Sarah Silverman came up to me after a show and someone said,

Ben, you had a great show.

And I was like, oh, thanks, man.

I felt off.

I just don't know why.

I didn't feel like a great show.

And she came up to me.

She goes, why'd you do that?

I said, what?

He goes, that person thought you had a great show.

Now you're making them feel like they're wrong.

Like they like what you, they loved the show.

Now you're telling them that you thought it was a bad show.

It's like, I really, that connected with me because it's like, they're not doing improv every day for this long.

I would think about it for days.

I would be sad for

days.

Same.

But what you said, days.

What you said that I really relate to is that sometimes we're not good at self-scouting in the moment.

Is that our standard sometimes is so uncompromising.

I have such a standard for what I'm doing that I will notice something that is off and I will let it infect everything such that the entire experience was poisoned.

I think it's insecurity, I guess, or something like insecurity masquerading as

just being, you know, mamba mentality like if i don't think this is good it's not good in reality you're probably too mean to yourself i think the biggest thing you said which i'm sure people that are listening can relate is i will let

a small thing get in the way of me enjoying the entire thing i think that's really smart of you to say and it's so bad to do that there's like a post-coidal joy to like a long-form improv show going really well.

I guess it's a, it's a post-coital orgy sort of sensation of like, we we all,

we all got our shots off.

And it was beautiful.

When everybody has a great show, it's my favorite thing.

What, what's, where does this go, Ben?

I mean, so there's, I should say that there's something that you can't say, which is that, and I, I, I am free to say it, which is that you produced a Netflix special, which has never existed before in the genre of long-form improv.

And, and, and that is, that is unprecedented in this genre.

Uh, what,

what do you want to do next within the world of improv specifically?

Like, where does this go?

It's crazy because it's the thing I do for fun.

It's like the fun things.

There's no end game because also there's never been

the stuff that I'm doing with this tour hasn't really happened before.

People don't do long-form improv in 3,000-person venues and stuff like that.

So it's always going to kind of be the thing that I do for fun on the side.

So like my writing and my acting takes precedence, writing, acting, you know, my real life stuff takes precedence.

And then if I have time, I want to make people laugh as much as I can.

I want to get on stage as much much as I can.

It brings me such joy and I feel like it keeps me sharp.

But there isn't a thing.

Maybe I'll do some, maybe I'll record some more

Ben Schwartz and friends.

I've been slowly recording all the audio of all my tour shows.

That's kind of a secret, but it's like, so I have it.

So I could release it as like a Patreon thing or as a podcast.

I could do that.

So I own my stuff, which is great, but I don't have any video.

I don't have an endgame yet.

I have some ideas, but I don't have an endgame.

And I just want to, I was talking to some the other day being like, how old can I be till it's not cool for me to be like a wizard jerking off a dragon on stage?

That was my last question.

That was going to be my last question for you.

That's

literally that one.

It's like,

it's like, I don't know how long.

Also, I don't know how long people are going to keep.

People are selling these venues out.

Like, I'm selling these out.

How long is that going to go on for?

I have no idea.

Wait,

what you are concerned about at the very end here, Ben Schwartz, is that your improv career is a lot like NBA top shot.

You did it.

You brought it all back together.

You crushed it.

You belong on stage.

You belong on stage.

Is there going to be a moment when I'm on stage when

my Jalen Brunson reverse layup is worth zero cents?

Well, I should say that at the very end of the show, we go around the room and we say what we found out today.

Great.

So, Ben Schwartz, what did you find out on Pablo Torre Finds Out?

Wow, what a great question.

I found out kind of, first of all, I found out that you're a fan of comedy and improv that I had no idea about, that you're really here to like show people what you can do as a intelligent Filipino gentleman who loves sports and also comedy.

You want to express your passion in the way that you want to express your passion.

You don't want to, you want it, you want it to see what it feels like when you have total control.

Yeah, what did you learn today, Pablo?

I learned today.

Oh, also, we learned what Amir's toilet looks like.

We did.

We learned that Amir Blumenfeld will let us record him while he's taking a.

We gotta, when, when we stop recording, we gotta call him and see if he's okay with sharing that because, I mean, that's obviously gonna be the clip you post.

I was gonna say, we're gonna, we're gonna circulate that widely.

Yeah.

Um,

what I also learned is that, I don't know, I feel like

I kind of want to put a quarter into the Ben Schwartz improv monkey machine and just like, sing our theme song, Ben.

Sing us out.

Can you do that for us?

Absolutely.

What's the name of the show?

Oh, God.

It's Pablo Torre finds out.

I hate you.

I deserve that, but I hate you.

Okay.

Too many?

Yep, go ahead.

Pablo Torre, will you join me?

Perhaps.

We'll find out.

There you go.

That makes sense.

There's a lot to find out in the world.

Who you're gonna call?

Who knows the answers?

There's a lot to show up to today.

Who are you going to find?

Pablo Torre.

What do you think about that?

You are somebody that I greatly admire.

So sincerely, thank you for plugging in a microphone and doing this with me, man.

Thank you, bud.

Bye, buddy.

This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metalark Media Production.

And I'll talk to you next time.