Dangerous Minds: How Stephen Glover Baffled Hollywood

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Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre.

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When we got to to know each other, Steve Glover, you came in with a lot of stories that I didn't know about.

About what you had done.

I'm not here to confront you over whether you had ever driven a car under the police.

Oh my goodness, like the police are waiting outside.

Do you have a power ranking in your mind of like,

young Steve?

Irresponsible.

Man, when I was like,

when I first came into college, I got super

drunk like with my friends.

Is it Georgia Tech?

Yeah.

There was like a club next to it that we like went to.

By the time I stepped in there, I was just wasted just from like pre-gaming.

And they literally threw me out.

They were like, this kid is like a liability.

My friends were like, they like picked me up like jazz from

fresh print.

They like threw me out to the club.

And then my friends brought me back to my dorm and then like my RA like saw them put me in there and he was like, hey, what's going on?

And they just like ran and left me.

It makes you scared for like the future and their own kids a little bit because you're like, oh man, you look back and it's like lucky that you kind of made it.

Like somebody said something.

The other day about like thinking about the fact that you're here is like all these people behind you you like survived, you know, and it's like, that is kind of crazy when you think about it.

It was probably somebody down the line, one of my ancestors who had a similar experience.

He got like super drunk and almost got kicked by like a horse.

He just like barely missed.

He's like, whoa,

that was close.

Like you're just barely making it over and over again.

So the people who have been subscribing to this podcast from the very beginning, remember that my friend Stephen Glover, who was a screenwriter and rapper and actor and producer, was our guest on the fifth ever episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out, in which we found out that Steve and his older brother, Donald, invented the concept of memes as children in the 90s and are also currently working on a secret Lando Calrissian Star Wars movie for Disney, which immediately made news when he said it on the show in 2023.

But Steve is also the guy who accepted in 2017 two Writers Guild of America awards for Atlanta, which remains my favorite television show of all time.

I gotta say, after winning the second one, I'm jaded already.

This town's not that great.

Everybody here thinks they're so hot.

My agent took me to Dantana's.

Awful.

No, I gotta thank my agents at WME, Tom.

I love you, man.

I gotta thank my lawyer, Lev, in the house, Lev Ginsburg, y'all know him, for taking me to a real restaurant.

Jesus.

I'm taking down a lot of people.

I'm sorry.

And so if you've never seen Atlanta, which also won a bunch of Emmys and Golden Globes and also mainstreamed Migos into popular American culture, Just know that what we're about to do here is talk about stuff like Donald racing Michael Michael Vick and casting Liam Neeson, and also this insane project from last year that involved both 21 Savage, another very popular rapper from Atlanta, as well as Dan Lebetard,

you know, my boss here at Meadowlark,

which we'll explain.

But it is not like Steve has been able to make every project that he's ever pitched in Hollywood.

There's always one we talk about where

we wanted to do a trailer for 56 Nights to future like mixtape.

I say 56 Nights crazy.

I think 56 Nights crazy.

Like a movie was coming out basically like about Futures life story.

Like

just the idea of

like if you know the 56 Nights.

Well, please for people who don't know 56 Nights, refresh our memory.

So Futures DJ and friend DJ Esco, well, I guess they were in like Dubai, ends up getting like detained by maybe like customs or whoever there.

And

he's put in jail and he has all of Futures music, I guess, on his hard drive that's also confiscated.

So, Future is without his DJ, and he also doesn't have any of his like songs that he's worked on.

So, like, the legend is he had to like start working,

you know, from scratch.

Like, I like that

Esco is like the guy with the nuclear football for the president.

If you lose this archive, we are fed.

Rappers always have like things like that.

You know, it's like this bag with my

unbacked up, uncloud powered

songs.

$700,000.

So, Future has to start from scratch.

Yeah, he's...

Because Esco

is locked up, and there's no telling when he's getting out.

He did eventually get out after 56 nights, hence the name.

But on Night 55, it was real.

It really.

Night 55,

they almost got a new DJ.

They almost recorded an acoustic album.

The mixtape that came out and the subsequent run of music Future had supposedly was like inspired by having to like start over again, which is kind of funny.

It's funny that rappers all have like this kind of same

like Christ-like story.

They would like make like a fake movie trailer for that, but we never got to do it.

Wait a minute, hold on.

You're acting like I'm so wistful for this idea we never got to do, where he made a fake movie for Future and instead had to settle for making a fake movie for 21 Savage.

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I'm Hannah Bruner, and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage.

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Actually, I never think about underwear.

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Same, they're so light and so comfy, and if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.

And the bras, soft, supportive, and actually breathable.

Yes, Lord knows the girls need to breathe.

Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft, and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night.

That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Plus, they're so cute because they fit perfectly.

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Hey, I'm Tricia Hirschberger, gamer, streamer, and Amazon Live host.

I stream about tech, gaming, and the stuff I actually buy right here with my community.

And Amazon Live makes it easy.

Streaming gameplay, scouting new gear, chatting, and shopping all at the same time?

That's my kind of multitasking.

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So before we get to this fake 21 Savage movie, which I've been meaning to get to for more than a year now, you should also know that there is a thing that PTFO does share in common with Steve and Donald and their group of friends that I have been lucky enough to watch flourish in this industry as both writers and honestly cultural critics over the last decade from up close.

Because both of us love stuff that is extremely smart,

but also extremely stupid.

I think that's a good way to put it.

It's like highbrow and low brow.

I think that like best describes like the kind of comedy taste.

Like even you, like me, Donald, it's like, you know,

it's like the Simpsons.

That's why we get along.

It's like we can make a joke about Mark Twain.

We can make a joke about that.

Do you, Huck, take Becky as your wife?

Hey, they done switched to groom with a pig.

No wonder he was pooping so much.

I say melting cheese on broccoli a lot.

Trying to melt cheese on broccoli.

That's what people want.

You got to mix the high and the low, you got to mix the candy with the vegetables.

And sometimes, as PTFO has established as well, you also got to mix in a little bit of levitard,

as you will very vividly see over on our YouTube channel.

Which brings us back to something that, yes, I really did need to find out.

So, the 21 Savage thing, though, me talking about this is so overdue.

These people,

they think we're savages.

It's overdue for a couple of reasons.

One of them is that my boss, Dan Lebetard, friend and boss.

It's in that.

Yeah.

Is depicted in it by a guy who looks, I wouldn't say in a literal way exactly like Dan, but is spiritually exactly like Dan.

Just enough so that he couldn't sue us you know

even if you have time on her feet pretty much that could be anybody

except for the part where you said it's him two minutes ago did i say

i think i i think i meant that with stephen a smith the investigation that i went through on like so how is it that Dan Labetard and Bomani Jones, it turns out, were both depicted in the trailer.

How would you describe what I'm talking about?

What that project was for people, again, who did not get to consume it at the time?

Hey, the way we would explain it to somebody is like

there was a video back in the day

for Coolio

for Gangster's Paradise.

A lot of movies had like the soundtrack, you know, song that was also had a video.

And they splice in, you know, scenes.

Where the musician is also in the movie.

Yeah.

Michelle Viper actually is in the video.

She does the backwards chair.

So they didn't splice Coolio into a scene from Dangerous Minds.

They put Michelle Viver into the Gangster's Paradise.

So that's

Gangsta's Paradise.

The Gangsters Paradise cinematic universe

is the blueprint for this.

As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I take a look at my life and realize there's nothing left.

I like how you're like, explain this to people.

I'm like, have you seen Geeks' Paradise?

If you're like, no, I'm like, okay, there's absolutely no way to explain this.

Which is pretty much how it was.

You try to explain it to somebody.

They're like, what?

You're like, all right, well.

I feel like you and Donald and all of our friends who work with you guys, Swank, Ybra, Fam, Chad, they're all mad when I don't say their names aloud when I listen to podcasts.

I say that you guys collectively like it when people are like, so this is a real movie

for 21 savage that you guys are making

memories in my head the devil talking to me it's always a funny joke to us of just playing something so like straight or close to it that it's there for a second you're like wait a second is this real to us that's always just funny and it's it's a lot harder to do

than

i would have originally thought to make it to really get close.

I mean, like the goofy episode of Atlanta, the goofy documentary.

For people who haven't seen the goofy episode of Atlanta.

What is it?

Yeah.

So, gangsters paradise, right?

No,

it's just basically

a documentary telling the origin of the goofy movie at Disney.

And the documentary is named The Goof Who Sat by the Door.

the Thomas Washington story,

which is already just like pretty hilarious.

And why I think on some level, like, we are friends.

It's like, this is both the highest brow and the lowest.

Very, very

like a spook who sat by the door illusion in the name of a fake documentary on a fake black media network about Goofy.

It's a story so unbelievable.

It could only happen in Hollywood.

How did this young, black, unassuming animator from East Atlanta wind up as the CEO of Disney at the company's most powerful moment in time?

We just play it so close.

Like the belief is that a goofy movie is inherently a black movie.

It was just this idea of like, what if it was actually made by a black guy who managed to get in charge for like,

you know, just long enough to make this movie that's the blackest movie of all time?

We all voted for this guy named Tom Washington, but we didn't realize that Tom's first name was actually Thompson, not Thomas.

Thomas Washington was an animator.

People were pretty upset when they found out they voted for the wrong man.

So making this documentary that feels really real

to the point where I'm like, yeah, you know, it kind of does feel like that's the truth, you know?

He knew that people thought Goofy was dumb, but he wanted to show the systemic factors that Goofy was dealing with.

S job, angry kid, and embarrassed by his lack of influence.

Man, it was wild how deep he leaned into all this.

Because

as far as I knew, Thomas had a really solid home life.

All of which brings us to why Dan Lebatard was in the 21 Savage fake movie trailer music video.

He's a part of the culture, whether he likes it or not.

I don't think he understands

his significance enough to have a developed opinion on I don't know how to explain this to Greg Cody

and Stugatz exactly in ways that they would understand.

But the internet, I am told, because we are three old people, the internet has told me that I have beef with 21 Savage.

I think I could say to either Stugat or Greg Cody that his name is Savage21 and they would not know the difference.

But I don't want to be having beef with

21 Savage.

I just remember him saying to me, like, what is this?

Yeah, it's like, sometimes you're just in the right place at the right time.

You know what I mean?

Sometimes the universe comes for you.

And it was like, he had no idea 21 Savage was going to be such a huge thing.

So he interviewed on Highly Questionable.

RIP to a great show that interviewed rappers a lot.

A show that aired on ESPN.

Just to keep keep in mind what everybody's pulling off here.

I love that.

Where Dan and at the time, Bomani, and Dan's dad, Poppy, Gonzalo Lebatard, are interviewing remotely 21 Savage.

Young Savage, why are you trapping so hard?

Why this capping so hard?

Why you got a 12-car garage?

Why are you pulling all these rappers' cards?

Cuz the

and I'm hard.

I turn it into some heart.

I grew up in the streets without no heart.

I'm praying to my glock and my carving.

The background behind him is like, you know, the buildings or whatever, like kind of like a nice view.

He has like a green screen.

Yeah, like a green screen.

A TV fake background.

Nice view.

In a studio somewhere.

But the way like he's like sitting kind of and like spinning in his chair, it makes him look like an evil villain, like kind of, you know, and because

like Tan and Bomani are kind of like you know here's 21 savage like kind of talking to him it's like a little bit like they're a little bit out of their element it kind of feels like they're scared of him because he's like a super villain so it's just a

thing that immediately kind of became like a meme i mean 21 savage has a tattoo like on on his forehead on his forehead between his eyebrows his hair is like an anime character i was gonna say imagine coolio was an anime character and you kind of approximate like a black Saiyan.

Yes.

Kind of, if you watch Dragon Ball Z.

And he is just like, sort of like smiling and holding his hands in a way that has like a Dr.

Claw aspect, like as if he had just rotated his chair around.

And that still frame

inspired Donald to play the role of 21 Savage in that interview.

The casting, a big gap in the understanding that I had as to how, how much of an homage this was to this specific HQ interview was me then asking around to our group of friends that made this and being like,

like, oh my God, like, I would love to talk to the actor who played like Dan.

I got to get him on the show.

And I believe, I think it was Pham who was just like,

that guy has no idea

what role he was playing.

He really doesn't.

It was funny.

I remember that guy specifically was kind of like

an actor who's like there, like doing a role.

He has no idea of

the context of what we're doing.

That was also funny.

You saw me having to explain to you what this is.

Yes.

So trying to explain.

Your life is repeatedly being asked by people to explain the weird thing you're working on.

And that includes the people who are starring in various parts of the thing that they are helping you make.

This is the hardest part about creating anything.

You know, it is it starts off as an idea to you.

So you have to translate this into the real world to other people.

It's like, all right, so you're this Cuban guy with a dark goatee and you wear a suit behind this desk next to this old guy and this black dude on the other side and you have like buttons unbuttoned and you're kind of like, you're that guy.

And also,

I remember Bobani's complaint that he voiced online.

They thought that I would get on TV without no jacket all, just with a shirt, a dress shirt with the undershirt out of it, the out the pack joy.

We had to do just enough to be like, it's not you guys, you know?

And the old man in between them.

I remember that day specifically.

We're kind of behind.

So you just got to give them the fastest things.

I didn't give them the whole Coolio speech.

I didn't have time.

You know, we were moving fast.

But that ended up being a thing that people eventually realized.

Oh, this isn't actually a movie.

That's how you know it's a good prank when people are sad at the when you're mad that you didn't get the fake movie that this advertised.

But that's the thing.

Like, you already know what this movie is.

That's why it works so good.

You know, if they're like, we're making the 21 Savage movie, like, you already know what the highlights are and how Hollywood is going to twist that.

Have you ever seen the like.

Do not ask me if I've seen Gangsters Paradise.

Coolio's video.

Have you ever seen the biggie movie that came out a couple years ago?

This music you got going on, it don't come around every day.

When you make it, we all make it.

If I don't make it, not going back on the block.

What cracks me up about that movie is

I think he's there's like a catchphrase in it.

He keeps being like, Can't change the world unless we change ourselves

that Viggie is saying, like over and over again in the movie, where you're like, There's no way Biggie ever said that, right?

Like

I don't think he's ever said that.

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Hey, I'm Paige DeSorbo, and I'm always thinking about underwear.

I'm Hannah Bruner, and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage.

I like to call them my granny panties.

Actually, I never think about underwear.

That's the magic of Tommy John.

Same, they're so light and so comfy, and if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.

And the bras, soft, supportive, and actually breathable.

Yes, Lord knows the girls need to breathe.

Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night.

That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Plus, they're so cute because they fit perfectly.

Put yourself on to Tommy John.

Upgrade your drawer with Tommy John.

Save 25% for a limited time at tommyjohn.com/slash slash comfort.

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I remember getting a text.

If I'm just going to throw Ibra under the bus, I think it was Ibrah.

Ibra Ake, who is, again, not to dwell on who Ibra is, but just for people who don't know him, artist curmudgeon.

Professional.

Now, professional New Yorker.

Who lives in France now?

Yeah, exactly.

In the most New York way possible.

Creative director guy who's worked with

Beyoncé now.

I'm just like, what's the, the resume is actually crazy the more I say it aloud.

No, Ibrah is like a real artist.

A real artist.

A snob.

Professional snob Ibra.

Got a good text from him.

Just to give you a sense of the high.

He's the highbrow, you could argue.

He brings highbrow credibility.

He definitely does.

From now, Paris.

Can I get Stephen A.

Smith's contact info?

We're thinking of casting him in an episode of Atlanta.

Atlanta what was the role for Stephen A.

Smith it was probably season three

of Atlanta this is the flamethrower episode of season three

I'm going to donate a million dollars to your school and I'm changing the name from that degenerate slave owner to one of the richest black men this side of the Mississippi From now on this school is going to be named the Robert S.

Lee High School

here are the other actors who I guess were being considered for the role.

Steve Harvey was our first choice.

Then Denzel and Spike and Kevin Samuels.

I am going to pay every single senior's college tuition.

Who's black?

We had wanted it to be Steve Harvey.

And I think

Steve Harvey seemed like he was into it and like he wanted to do it.

And then he kind of, I don't know, at the last moment, dropped out.

He might have been.

Do you think he read the script?

I don't even, I don't know.

Actually, did he ever get the script?

Maybe that was it.

He read it.

It was like, uh-oh.

He's like, I can't host Family Feud after this.

I was going to say, I think he was shooting Family Feud at the time.

I think he was like

shooting family feud in Africa or something at the time.

That might have been what?

Welcome back to the feud, everybody.

The Sadira family won the game.

And now it's time to play.

As somebody who has met Steve Harvey,

when I, you know, became the owner of the greatest comeback in the history of Celebrity Family Feud.

Name the greatest breakfast food ever created.

Bacon.

name someone you should never call when you're drunk your mom name a coin you throw into a fountain to make a wish a penny we got a shot i should have made you ask steve harvey why he didn't do our episode if i knew the backstory in full then

his voice would be right here trying to get people in atlanta it's like

That's pretty much what it was.

You would just kind of be trying to work your network of like, hey, does anybody know?

Does anyone know William Deeson?

Okay.

William Deeson thing

is one of my favorite things that a celebrity has agreed to do.

Eyes open.

Once again, kind of towing this line of like realness and like the strange that we love, you know.

Again, inspired by an actual interview a celebrity gave to someone.

Inspired by a real interview that he did.

I remembered an incident nearly 40 years ago

where a very dear friend of mine was brutally raped.

But I

had never felt this feeling before, which was a primal urge to lash out.

I asked her, did you know the person?

It was a man.

No.

His race?

She said he was a black man.

I thought, okay.

And after that, there were some nights I went out deliberately into black areas

in this city looking to be set upon

so that I could unleash physical violence.

Liam Neeson says he's not racist.

That's in quotes.

After a controversial interview.

Liam Neeson has denied, this is from the BBC.

Liam Neeson has denied he is racist after admitting he once set out to kill any black man who provoked.

Yeah, no, I mean, you know.

So just

sit in that for a second.

And so then you guys are like,

we have an idea for Liam Neeson.

I mean,

and by the way, the quote that I just read in all of its bluntness and discomfort is kind of where there is a place to actually understand why Liam Neeson would want to do this and actually benefited from doing what he did with Atlanta.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think,

you know, shout out to Liam Neeson because it was, it was great for him to do this and to even like hear us out.

Talking in the Atlanta writer's room, we were like,

we were talking about it.

We're just like, it's kind of funny because he's doing the thing that we kind of want him to do, you know, is being honest and like telling these, like, this real thing, you know, and it's like, yeah, it's like maybe uncomfortable, but it's like, this is the truth.

And like, we're all better for it.

And like, he should be like applauded.

But of course, nobody, the headline is just, you know, taking him down, which we just thought was funny.

We always joke like, you know, you go to like a restaurant, you accidentally like.

you eat somebody else's food, you get the wrong order.

And like a white guy there, like that's enough to push him over the edge to racism.

He's like, I hate all black people now.

You know, all he has to do is have one bad interaction with a black person.

And then you might, uh,

quote, go out deliberately into black areas in the city looking to be set upon so I could unleash physical violence, end quote, from Liam Neeson, which again, the honesty in that, he's like, I'm going to actually express what was going through my mind.

And

we are, in fact, better off when people are able to express how they honestly feel.

So, the episode, again, to fill in the blanks here, it's the season that, and the episode, particularly in this case, takes place in Amsterdam.

Yeah.

And there's a club, a seemingly hallucinatory club, where you go in and everybody who's in there has been canceled.

How did you get here?

I just followed a local.

What did you?

What's me?

Up-to-date strangle a fan, a shaggy a teenager.

I dig it in

Thank you now.

You don't have to say it's fine.

It's your business.

I mean not to spoil the episodes.

What the f are we talking about?

Some people haven't seen Steve spoiler alert.

Okay, we can speak freely now.

You've been warned.

You've been warned.

Well, now I feel that way.

Because you tried to ruin my career.

Didn't succeed, mind you.

However,

I'm sure one day I will get over it.

But until then,

we are mortal enemies.

I'll see you to Ryan Vickland.

I presume there are people who have not seen this, and they should go and watch it, and they should come back to this to find the analysis that we're providing.

I now realize, by the way, for the record,

whenever we meet up, I have no idea what we're going to talk about.

It turns out that I've just realized what Atlanta was through this particular lens, which is a show where you had to at one point ask Michael Vick to be on it.

Yeah, Michael Vick out here racing people.

He taking bets, too.

Yeah, boy.

Is he?

Is he doing okay?

Oh, he fine.

It's just some good hustle.

Yeah, drunk people just want to race.

This is his sixth race in the 10 minutes I've been standing here.

That boy good.

Anybody else?

Anybody?

3-1 odds.

It's fair.

I kind of want to see this.

I'll do it.

Sometimes you just got to stun on people.

The shooting of it, in terms of like just

how you guys

told the story of the race.

As in

stops right as Donald seems to like get ahead of Michael Mick at the starting line.

And then like the

motif of the

kind of like rocky music.

The whole thing of we don't need to show the race.

Yeah, you don't need to see the race, but it's like, how much of the race do you need to show?

It's like just him getting a jump on Michael.

Vic is enough to make you laugh and like, oh, maybe he's actually going to do this, you know?

And then

the car

and there is no music.

It is

dead silent for several seconds.

And you don't even know the outcome, except it's now obvious what the outcome is.

And then she says, It's Michael Fick.

Which is the truth.

You know, that's what's so funny, too.

It's such a great economy of showing.

And I mean, in this case, obviously, like in writing, it's show, don't tell.

This is the inversion of that.

It's don't show either.

Like, don't show and don't tell.

It's kind of like

horror movies, you know?

It's like the less you show sometimes, it's like the better.

You know, let people's imagination work a little bit, you know.

I mean, Donald always had a philosophy on the show, too, of just like, we don't need to explain everything to the audience.

We don't need to like hold their hand through everything.

Like, they're going to get it.

You know, TV sometimes you're like too worried about like explaining everything.

You know, it's it's like I gotta bring dangerous minds.

It's literally the exact opposite to what I've been forcing you to do

for an hour.

Exactly.

Michael Vick, man.

An Atlanta legend.

Can you take us inside the origin of that scene?

Do you remember how it originated?

I remember me and one of of the other writers on the show, Jamal, aka Swank.

I remember we went to like Complex Con one year,

like out here in LA.

And like you go into like the bathroom and it's like

a hundred dice games going on, like full moti.

It's like a Star Wars casino in the back

in there.

And that's what's kind of like funny about like Atlanta.

Like, you know, the strip club or like the parking lot even it's like there's like a million things like going on other side hustles and side adventures happening you know all throughout this place it's like a pool game going on over here for thousands of dollars you know and it's just this idea that michael vick could like raise money whenever he wants you know just for racing drunk people which to be fair is a pretty great thing i mean if i was in atlanta and michael vick was in a parking lot and people were racing him i would definitely be interested i mean i feel like that's actually a wildly that's like hot ones now that's hot yeah yeah yeah that was hot

i know i know

still hot it's a it's a weird show i know

that's like a that's a complex youtube franchise actually speaking of which man we should talk to michael vick and see how if he wants to race people he interviews people like they're like stretching he's like kind I'm like, so like, what's the movie about?

Like, they're both at a starting line.

And he races them.

He's like racing.

You have to answer while you're racing him.

It's like long distance.

Like they're going to race him for like a mile.

That's the equalizer with Michael Vick.

If you can run for a long time, you know, that's how you beat him.

What was the

pitch to Michael Vick?

Was that a hard?

Do you remember if it was a hard ask, if he got it immediately?

If he was like,

yeah, I'll do that.

I think he was pretty on board.

He was actually like, sure, yeah, no, it sounds cool.

Like, I remember he was like into it and fine.

I mean, with that shot in particular, I'm like, that's just like a

perfect

kind of picture of like doing comedy, especially too, of like

the script, whatever's in the script there, it was not what it was there.

You know what I mean?

It's like you gotta find it, you gotta find the comedic timing.

Sometimes that's there, sometimes it's in the editing.

I realized that too, like first season.

People would read scripts and they would be like, What is this?

You know, kind of like, what are we doing?

You know, by the time, wait a minute, Justin Bieber's black, yeah, exactly.

Wait, it's cool, it's cool.

This is me,

this is the real Justin.

I'm not

always funny with the Justin Bieber episode.

I remember we literally sent it to FX the script and they were like,

are we going to be able to get Justin Bieber?

Like, that was like the kind of the first ask, because

that's how hard it was for them to understand what was going on.

Script.

So you guys want us to get Justin Bieber.

They're like, so...

Donald's going to get Justin Bieber, right?

Because we're not going.

We can't do that, you you know but look the term from literature to be highbrow right is magical realism like that's spanish literature it's like they don't they're not explaining either yeah like why why is there this mysterious man on a bus eating like a peanut butter sandwich resistance is a symptom of the way things are

not the way things necessarily should be

Actual victory belongs to things that simply do not see failure.

Let the path push you like a broken branch in a river's current.

Nah, nah, I'm not going out like that, but thanks for the advice.

Fight this out

at the end of the book.

They don't tell you, by the way, that was an allegory.

Do you think it's harder or easier to make Atlanta now

than it was compared to when you guys actually did make multiple seasons, critically acclaimed and also very at times subreddit aggravating?

It's hard to answer that question because

in some ways, it's like, yeah, it would be hard to get it made.

But at the same time, I think people are just as thirsty for this type of thing.

So in some ways, the climate is like perfect for it, you know?

I, I, you know, yes, yes, that's, that's the argument for it is that we are, whether we can articulate this or articulate it enough, we are starving for stuff that actually does make us think

as well as make us laugh at the same time.

And doing shit that's smart, but again, has some cheese melted on the broccoli.

Exactly.

Is

we just don't have enough of it, even as we're starving for it.

Even when people are asking for it, the timing's got to be right.

You got to be able to like find a way to cut through.

I think our show was able to cut through.

And like in an age where everybody's also like, look at me, I'll do anything to cut through.

It's like, how do you subvert that?

It's like, well, you just be good, I guess.

I do like how the lesson at the end of this, like, what did I find out today?

I guess you should be good at making things.

I would bet on whoever is actually like skilled.

You definitely should,

you definitely should, you know.

I mean, it's like

I'll go to the

like farmer's market, very LA sort of thing, you know, and there's like this bread-like place that's there, like just kind of like French bakery that comes out there.

And all the bread is like, every time you like come, it's like most of it's gone.

Cause I guess people are coming at like six in the morning to get this bread or whatever.

You're going to be like, there's no way this

croissant is that good or whatever.

And then you like get one, you get like something there, and you're like, oh, this actually is pretty good.

And you're like, yeah, you know,

like you said, betting on the people who know what they're doing.

You could, you could think like man i'll just go to vons and get a croissant but it's like

you're gonna pay for that no you and by the way what you need are people who have maybe the ability to like communicate and then teach this to younger people even if they may seem like a strange person to listen to which does remind me of the movie dangerous minds

man

we got maybe we'll just update dangerous Dangerous Minds.

I'm thinking Lando, the Lando movies, just kind of like Dangerous Minds.

What if Lando

was Michelle Pfeiffer?

There's a space school in Cloud City.

There's a lot of these like inner Cloud City

aliens.

They got to pass this test, but they don't believe in themselves enough.

You know, they got a lot of issues with their alien home life.

We'll pitch that to Disney.

This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metalark media production,

and I'll talk to you next time.

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