MAGA War Chest, Nuclear Subs, and Texas Dems Flee

Support for this show comes from IBM.

Is your AI built on everyone or is it built to work with your business data?

IBM helps you integrate and govern unstructured data wherever it lives, so your business can have more accurate AI instead of just more of it.

Get your data ready for AI at iBM.com.

That's IBM.com.

The AI Built for Business, IBM.

Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start?

Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to.

Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?

With Thumbtac, you don't have to be a home pro.

You just have to hire one.

You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

Download today.

How do we AI proof our jobs?

How do we fix the deficit?

How do we get our political system working again?

I'm Henry Blodgett and I'm launching a new podcast called Solutions, where every week I'll talk to an innovative enterprising expert to cut through the doom and focus on how to build a better world.

Follow Solutions with Henry Blodgett wherever you get your podcasts.

The first episode will be out Monday, August 18th.

Who's smart?

Who in that administration?

I know you probably are not a Luttnick fan, would be my guess.

Well, I mean, Howard Butnick, Buttlick,

Nutlick, you're allowed to say Nutlick on the paper?

You're allowed, whatever.

Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher, and guess what kicks off today?

Scott-Free August.

That's right.

It's the first week of Scott Free August when the dog's away and the jungle cat gets to experiment with a bunch of different co-hosts.

And today I'm with the one and only Anthony Scaramucci, Mooch, the Mooch, a lawyer, podcaster, founder, and managing partner at Skybridge Capital.

And you remember that he did a quick 11-day stint in the White House during President Trump's first term, but that's in the past, actually.

I don't think about that as much.

Anthony, welcome.

All right.

Well, I'm very flattered.

I appreciate that.

You're never invited into my apartment or my kitchen, Kara.

You'll have to stay in the living room when you come over.

I want to make sure you know that.

No, I'm going to look through all your things.

By the way, that was incredible.

That was A plus trolling, Kara Swisher.

A plus trolling.

He's referring to a video of me in Scott's apartment looking through his things, which I do constantly.

And if I came to your apartment, I'd be right up in your medicine chest, just so you know.

And you would learn that I have a lot of skin products.

Uh-huh.

Okay, lots of electricity.

Semen, what do you have?

What is it?

No, no, I haven't gone into that yet.

I probably should talk to some of the actresses actresses about that.

But no, I just said, you know, just general stuff,

Retin-A and things like that.

Bernova.

All right.

Well, what would be the craziest thing I would find in your closet?

Man, there's too many crazy.

I mean, the craziest thing that you would find in my closet is the original hood from Batman in the 1966 television series.

With Adam West?

With Adam West.

Yeah.

You know, I'm a superhero kid.

You know, I grew up with comics and and superheroes, and I was four or five years old when he was on TV, and I thought he was hip and cool.

I used to own the Batmobile.

I owned the Batman Returns Batmobile, the one where Danny DeVito played the penguin and Michael Peaton

was in the movie with

Michelle Pfeiffer.

She was the catalyst.

I note this.

What do you mean you owned it?

Where did you put it?

Well, that was the big issue.

So I had it for many years.

It cost a lot of money to store it.

What did it cost to buy?

What did it cost to buy?

So that car is probably worth about $30 million now.

I bought the car for $150,000 and I sold it.

$150,000.

Yeah, $150,000.

This is 20 years ago.

I sold it for $300,000.

But if I kept it,

it would have been a great investment.

But you know what?

I didn't keep it and life goes on.

Did you drive it?

Yes, I did.

It's on an F150 frame.

It does not drive well, frankly.

There's a little propane tank in the back uh it's not registered you can't insure it it's a show car but there is a there is a button that you can click and it shoots the propane flame out of the that sounds dangerous that sounds very dangerous you know if you're an overgrown 12-year-old it's one of the funnest things you can own can i ask you a personal question do you put on that outfit the adam west did you get it dry cleaned yeah i'm going to bring my wife on the podcast to let you know i i chase her around in the bedroom with the hood and the cape

i actually don't do that but i wish i wish wish I did that, but I don't.

Yeah, you know what?

I love Adam Woz.

I like when he used to dance.

Remember he used to dance.

Remember the swivel?

Swivel when he danced.

You didn't buy the Robin outfit?

You didn't do that?

I didn't buy the Robin outfit.

No, I'm not.

Burt Ward was obviously a very colorful, fun guy, but

I identified more with the aloof Batman.

All right, when I come over, you're putting that thing on and we're having some fun.

We're having some fun.

I don't know what we're going to do.

I'm definitely hiding that from you.

No way.

That is now that I know.

Anyway, I'm so thrilled you're here.

There's so much to talk to to you about.

You are a very canny observer of everything that's happening.

But we've got tons to get to, including MAGA's war chest, which is huge, nuclear submarines, and the latest on the Epstein saga.

I'm excited to hear what you have to say.

But first, Democratic members of the Texas House of Representatives have fled the state in an attempt to stop Republicans from adopting a redrawn congressional map.

The Republican state legislature has been pushing for a map that flips five Democratic congressional districts in favor of Republicans.

Governor Greg Abbott called the departure of the Democrats an abandonment or forfeiture of an elected state office, saying he would take steps to remove the missing Democrats if they don't return.

And then, of course, a lot of Democratic governors, including Gavin Newsom, are threatening to do the same in their states.

Thoughts on this strategy?

Terrible.

terrible strategy.

They should get together and declare a detente, statewide détente.

People like you and me, it's very important for us to explain to the American people what they're doing.

Okay, gerrymandering, everybody, is when the politician picks the voter.

In a liberal democracy, the voter is supposed to pick the politician.

And so these guys have totally corrupted the system.

The Republicans did this better than the Democrats early on.

There was something called Operation Red Map, Cara.

You probably remember that.

They went into the state, local legislators.

The Koch family was big, big donors to this, and they influenced the local elections to get the local elections to redistrict the congressional districts.

Trump is looking at the map and he's thinking to himself, I'm going to lose the House.

I'm not a popular president.

He's below 40%.

I'm going to lose the House.

He calls up Governor Abbott.

It says, I need five Republican congressional seats.

And this will cause an escalation of complete nonsense.

You and I both know that the American leaders were once public servants.

We're now in the age of public self-servants.

They're serving themselves.

Nice way to put it.

And they're doing terrible things to the American people.

And this is an example that.

So what happens here?

What is the game?

If they do this and they get these Democratic legislators back, they can't take them out of office, or maybe they can in Texas.

They probably can't.

No, but

they'll get them back to force the vote and cause the redistricting, which is legal and is allowable, to cause the redistricting of

the districts, which will allow more Republicans on a percentage basis into those those districts.

And then the Democrats will probably lose those House seats.

And so Newsom is saying, okay, I can do that.

There's some Republican districts here in California.

Let me get the chainsaw out and let me redistrict.

And so,

I mean, this is something people should know.

Very, very bad.

We would need a constitutional amendment, frankly, to end gerrymandering.

Maybe AI could pick the districts, make the districts flat, make the districts even.

It would cut the extremists in the society, but it would also end the

redundancy of incumbency.

Okay, and so that's what's going on.

Right.

So if Abbott does this, should Newsom do the same thing?

Well, he will do it.

No, no.

So if Abbott does it, he will definitely do it.

And then you'll have an escalation and

you'll have an escalating war.

You know, you're asking me if he should.

In a normative world, they should de-escalate.

They should cut the nonsense.

They're not serving the American people.

But, you know, there's something that someday we're all going to have to write about.

Maybe you and I won't be here.

I don't know, but 50 years from now, someone will write, what the hell?

How did this orange spray tanned maniac get a hold of one of these parties like this, where everybody is crippled with moral weakness, moral depravity, and just literally allowing him to do whatever the hell he wants?

And he does, and he laughs at these.

By the way, I know the guy.

So when they're kissing his ass, Kara, he's laughing at them.

You know, he's picking up the phone.

He's calling his friend Kara Swisher and say, ha, ha, can you believe Governor Abbott is actually willing to do this for me?

You know he's doing that, right?

Yeah, he loves it.

So speaking of which, he said he planned to appoint a new commissioner for the Bureau of Labor Statistics over the next three or four days.

He fired the head of the agency last week following a jobs report that showed weak hiring in July, a major downward revisions to jobs created in May and June.

These revisions happen all the time, by the way.

Trump called the jobs numbers phony and rigged, his favorite two words, and offered no evidence except my opinion.

His economic advisor, Kevin Hassett, who's quite a minion, defended the move in an interview with Kristen Welker on Meet the Press.

Let's listen.

Is the president prepared to fire anyone who reports data that he disagrees with?

No, absolutely not.

The president wants his own people there so that when we see the numbers, they're more transparent and more reliable.

And if there are big changes and big revisions, we expect more big revisions for the job state in September, for example, then we want to know why.

We want people to explain it to us.

They need to be explained to.

We've seen this firing routine from Trump many times, as you well know.

But is he taking it to a whole new level here?

Your thoughts on this?

Because this, you and your Wall Street pals must be freaked out by this one.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, listen, I mean,

I don't think.

I don't think anybody on Wall Street is freaked out anymore.

I mean, that was a freak out moment in 2018.

In this moment, now you're going to expect anything from Donald Trump.

You may remember this.

It's sort of obscure now, but Jack Welch, the very high-profile CEO of GE, questioned the job reports numbers under the Obama administration once.

And so this is a political tactic.

I find those statistics like the CBO to be very nonpartisan.

The numbers are the numbers.

I will say that they can be antiquated, though, Kyle.

You know, like, you know, the cliché statistics are lies.

There are damn lies, and then there are statistics.

We can make statistics look any way that we want.

And so I don't think it's the right thing to do to do that.

He would be better advised to say, okay, how are we getting this data now?

And can this data be sourced better and sourced in real time, given all the great technology we have in the country to make the data a little bit less laggy and a little bit more accurate in real time?

And so he's not going to do that.

But here's the irony, and I push this back to you for a second.

This data supports a rate cut.

And so he's railing on Jerome Powell.

What I don't understand is why didn't he take the data and say this is purely voracious data?

It's absolutely accurate.

And this more emphasizes that the Federal Reserve Chair and the board there is on the wrong side of where rates are.

And so why didn't he?

You know, it's an interesting question because I think his knee-jerk reaction was, oh, shit, the economy is doing way worse than it did under Joe Biden.

And of course, I can't let my minions, because these people will believe anything I say, can shoot people on Fifth Avenue, deny them on the Epstein list.

I can do all these different things.

And so let me keep the narrative going that there's another conspiracy afoot and that they're lying about the statistics because it's an Obama slash Biden legacy appointee and their group in there doing the statistics.

But he would have been better served actually to say, hey, this is accurate.

Where is Jerome Powell?

Why is he not cutting rates?

Because Trump clearly wants a rate cut for various different reasons.

So

that's the irony there.

I'm surprised he didn't go in that direction.

Who could he appoint here that would satisfy?

Will Wall Street freak out about this or not at all?

I don't think so.

I think Wall Street has said to themselves, and this is the weird thing about Wall Street.

Wall Street says that this guy's gone in three and a half years, but I submit back to Wall Street: do you know anybody that builds a $200 million ballroom onto their house and then moves out in three and a half years?

I'm just pointing that out to people.

The guy's making expansive renovations to the White House.

Doesn't smell like a guy that wants to leave anytime soon.

So I think we're going to be up for a potential fight there.

But I think Wall Street looks at this and says, okay, this guy's leaving in three and a half years.

There'll be a cleanup on Isle 7.

He's breaking all the pickle jars at the local supermarket.

There'll be a cleanup.

There'll either be a Democrat that comes in or a non-personality cult member, because I do believe this is a personality cult and it'll die off with Trump.

Someone else will come in and be a little bit more normal, won't be able to get away with the nonsense that Trump is getting away with.

And so Wall Street's like, okay, we can live with this for three and a half years.

Tariffs are ridiculous.

Guys like Jamie Dimon are saying so far, so good.

But you know, they're mumbling in the back room saying, what a disaster.

You know, Jason Fuhrman actually had a great piece in the New York Times over the weekend describing that the tariffs are not going to cause a great recession or a potential depression, but they are slowing down the economy and they are slowing down capital allocation decisions in the economy.

And it's frankly starting to show up in the data.

So, you know, this is the, again, the MAGA narrative is,

ho-ho, still got a strong economy despite our tariffs.

But the real narrative should be, no, the tariffs haven't fully kicked in yet.

Right.

So speaking of that, he's continuing his mission to upend global trade.

He He launched a new round of tariffs targeting over 60 U.S.

trading partners and set take effect August 7th.

They keep moving these dates.

These tariffs range from about 10% to 40%.

Canada is at 35%.

India is at 25%, which Trump says he's going to increase because India is buying oil from Russia.

And somewhat inexplicably, Switzerland is at 39%.

He's already signaling more tariffs to come, including pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, and critical minerals.

The markets initially fell on the tariff news as well as in the jobs report.

They seem to have rebounded as Monday Monday morning.

As you say, they're just sort of a wait and see kind of thing?

Or are they, is Wall Street actually concerned?

Even if they're trashing them behind the scenes?

I think Wall Street thinks that all of this stuff ends up at about 10%,

possibly 15%.

Terrible, but tolerable.

I think that's how Wall Street looks at it.

I don't think that 39% number that you're referencing in Switzerland is going to stick.

I think that's a remnant number from April 2nd.

You remember when he came down?

Is that crazy?

He's like Orange Moses coming down from Mount Evil with the tablet.

You know, he's like walking in.

You know, one knows what the hell he's talking about.

I think that's one of those things that's like left over

the 39%.

And I think that's going to get reversed.

I know the Swiss government is frantic about getting that reversed.

They're working on it right now.

And I think that will.

I think these things settle out 10 to 15.

The person that's handled Trump better than anybody, my opinion, is Mark Carney.

Mark Carney has held the ground there.

There's no way that the American economy can have a 35%

reciprocal tariff with Canada.

It's just not sustainable.

You'll knock everybody out of business.

You have lobstermen that are buying, they're catching lobster in U.S.

waters, but they're sending it across the border to have it processed in Canadian processing fans and then sent back.

So you'll knock the price up 70%

in terms of the way the tariffs work.

You'll put everybody out of business.

You hurt the restaurant industry.

Which most businesses have been absorbing until now, right?

They've been sort of.

They have.

I mean,

look at the GM print.

GM lost a billion dollars by absorbing the cost.

But you know who isn't absorbing it, Car, is Las Vegas.

Las Vegas is not absorbing it because they've lost the Canadian tourists.

They've lost the UK tourists.

They've lost the guys coming in from Australia that used to gamble and go crazy in Las Vegas.

You have no tax on tips, but you have a 50% reduction in revenue for the people that are receiving the tips.

So Trump's nonsense, his rhetoric has really hurt tourism.

I mean, there's an estimate of about 80 to 90 billion dollars of tourist revenues that have been lost in the U.S.

And so rhetoric matters when you're the president.

These tariffs, though, Wall Street, again, saying 10 to 15%, somebody smart will come in and revise these things.

Who's smart?

Who in that administration?

I know you probably are not a Luttnick fan, would be my guess.

Well, I mean, Howard Buttnick, Butlick,

Nutlick.

You're allowed to say Nutlick on the paper.

You're allowed, whatever.

Coward Nutlick?

Is that what you're talking about?

Is that who we're talking about?

That's who I'm talking about.

I mean, you know, the guy's unbelievable.

I mean, and I, I.

Know Howard a long time.

Yeah, I bet.

But Howard, if you said to me there's a picture in the dictionary of Potomac Fever,

okay, it would be Howard Ludnick, okay?

Potomac fever.

I'm in the mix.

I'm driving around in the Secret Service vans.

I'm an important guy.

I'm an important guy.

The phone calls are coming in, and I'm going to have this very smug, arrogant, jerk-off smile on television every time I'm talking.

I'm going to be pedantic, and I'm going to be demeaning to the interviewers.

I mean,

come on, Howard.

I don't know what you took the wrong pill.

The side effects of Potomac Fever

are career career-ruining, and he's heading in that direction.

He should really calm down and get a grounding wire up his ass, calm himself down a little bit.

Who do you like there?

Who do you think, Besant?

Kevin's a good guy.

Hassert's a very smart guy.

He's a reasonable guy.

He steered the president away from some of the really bad things.

Besant, or how you pronounce his name, I know Scott a long time.

I think he is a person, if you talk to the Wall Street guys that really know him, he's blocked Trump on a few things,

even to the point where I think he said, you know, I can't do this.

And so you may have to find somebody else.

Of course, Trump capitulates when you tell him that, particularly somebody like Bassett, where he needs him.

Remember something about Treasury.

Trump doesn't give a shit about Treasury.

Trump wants the trains to run on time.

He wants the bills for the American government to be paid and he wants the taxes collected.

The places he really cares about are justice.

That's a place he really cares about.

Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense.

Okay, so it's very important to him that he has full-on sycophants in those roles.

But Beset, he's smart enough to know that he needs somebody that Wall Street is going to accept.

And of course, you know, it's been reported, so it's worth talking about.

Jamie Dimon is now in direct

conversations with the president, and he's a very moderate guy, and he's trying to guide the president towards doing doing things that are less stupid frankly that's what he's there for yeah that was an interesting i was like oh i see i like jamie he's probably yeah the smartest of all of us he's probably giving very good advice to him and and and trump probably looks up to him in a weird way or in some level uh has not respect but just is probably thinks he's smarter than him and so we'll listen to him so one of the things though that doesn't feel too smart speaking of state department he's ordered two u.s nuclear subs to reposition near russia just in case that move was in response to a series of fiery social media posts from former Russian President Medvedev.

Medvedev warned in one post that each new ultimatum Trump issues over the Ukraine is a threat and a step toward war, and the Kremlin has responded to Trump's remove saying, we believe everyone should be very careful about nuclear rhetoric.

I would agree with that.

Trump is also threatening sanctions unless Russia ends the war by August 8th, which is

the end of this week.

But Putin has dismissed pressure for a ceasefire.

Talk about what he's doing here from your perspective.

Well, I mean, saber-rattling.

I don't think it's a much ado about nothing.

I think it's a good news story.

It shows his base that he has some muscularity.

I think the Iranian hit showed some muscularity.

This base likes that.

Why he is threatening them when he spent almost both administrations sucking up to them is really interesting to me.

Why now?

Why here?

Well, he doesn't have a choice.

Well, okay, well, I can answer that.

So, so what's happening to Trump is that the

lame duck clock is ticking.

He's 18 months away from being a full-on lame duck.

And there's a little bit of flex by some of the conservative Republicans that are for democratic freedoms.

And there's also some institutional memory in the Congress, particularly the Senate, related to the security guarantees that President Clinton signed in 1994.

The Ukraine government gave up their nukes in exchange for these security guarantees.

So there are a group of institutionalists in McConnell's, the Thunes, that have gone to Trump and said, hey,

you're not being tough enough.

You've got to help these guys more.

We can't have a defeated Ukraine government at this point.

And so Trump is under the gun.

He's afraid of Putin.

I think we have to state that publicly.

I always tell people, if the window's open, Kara, and you hear clippity-clop, it's a horse.

It's not a zebra.

You got to look at the obvious.

They've got something on him that scares the living shit out of him, and he won't move against Putin.

And you have to say to yourself, well, Putin's got a declining country.

His GDP now is 14% smaller than Italy.

He's got a failed Defense Department or War Department.

Just look at what's going on there.

And so, how could a very rich man, which Trump is, who runs the largest military and arguably one of the most powerful nations in the history of the world, be kowtowing to Vladimir Putin?

And the answer is they got something on him, and they got something on him that scares the living daylights out of the way.

And yet he rattles the sabers here.

Why?

Just for because he has to, because I know Trump's personality, so he's a great compartmentalist.

He's got pressure on him from these congressional leaders, and so he has to do something, but he never does the thing.

He'll say 50 days, he'll say 10 days, he'll say 22 days, but he never, never does it because he's so afraid of Putin.

You know, he could he could bitch slap Putin super hard.

He could send those high mars.

He could send more patriot batteries.

He could get permission to launch a few ICBMs into Russia from Ukraine territory.

He could do all those things.

And it would probably collapse the Putin government.

And it would probably cause a replacement of Vladimir Putin.

Of course, we'd have to worry about that from an intelligence perspective.

There could be harder right radicals.

Maybe we don't want Putin necessarily replaced as much as we want him contained.

But there's a lot of things that Trump could do.

He's not willing to do them because he's scared shit of Vladimir Putin.

Okay, Anthony, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, Trump's super PAC rakes in the cash, and we'll talk Epstein as well.

Support for this show comes from NetSuite.

Two roads diverge the yellow wood, and I took the one less traveled by.

Now, that may be a poetic way for Robert Frost to make a decision, but if you're a business leader, you need to base your decisions on more than a gut feeling.

You need actionable data.

NetSuite says they can help.

NetSuite by Oracle is your AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses.

NetSuite by Oracle grants you total visibility from ground shipments to tariff impacts to real-time cash flow.

NetSuite brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform.

With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth giving you visibility and control.

You need to make quick decisions.

With real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com slash pivot.

The guide is free to you at netsuite.com slash pivot.

That's netsuite.com slash pivot.

Support for this show comes from Delete Me.

Even if you haven't personally been a victim of identity theft, harassment, or doxy, you probably know someone who has.

We're We're all online all the time.

And we've all, unfortunately, left a breadcrumb trail for data brokers, those people who compile your personal information and sell it.

But DeleteMe makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable.

I think it's really important for people to do this.

I am a huge privacy person around my stuff, and I have been shocked by the stuff that I found on DeleteMe, especially as they assemble stuff about me

like old addresses, all these things, addresses I've forgotten, and it just sort of creates a profile of me that is actually pretty accurate and also is wrong in many ways.

So, take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me.

Now, at a special discount for our listeners, get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleatme.com/slash pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout.

The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com/slash pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout.

That's joinedeleatme.com/slash/pivot code pivot.

I know it can seem like we're drowning in problems, but the truth is, for every issue the world is facing, there are sharp, brilliant minds conceiving big ideas to solve them.

That's why my friend and business insider co-founder Henry Blodgett, whom I brought to Vox Media, is launching a new podcast, Solutions with Henry Blodgett.

Every week, he'll interview leading thinkers across business, tech, politics, and more to get to the bottom of how we finally put these pressing problems to bed.

Make sure to check out the first episodes of Solutions with Henry Blodgett on Monday, August 18th on YouTube and other podcast apps.

Anthony, we're back.

MAGA Inc., Donald Trump's main super PAC, is currently sitting on a war chest of nearly $200 million, according to a new FEC filing.

Donors include Elon Musk, who gave $15 million to MAGA and the other GOP PACs just weeks after his spat with Trump, venture capitalist Mark Andereessen, who's always creepily around the basket, and TikTok investor Jeffrey Yass.

Contributions also came in from crypto executives, an energy, which makes sense to me, an energy company, and a mother seeking a pardon for her son, who got one.

A spokeswoman for MAGA Inc.

rejected claims that the donations were exchanged for access, saying Trump, quote, cannot be bought and works toward the best interests of the country.

It feels pay-to-play to me.

New York Times had a pretty devastating piece about that.

But does the money go towards helping Republicans in the midterms, or is Trump really considering that third term, which you referenced just a second ago?

Well, I think you have to take Trump seriously about him wanting a third term, and I think you have to take Steve Bannon seriously about him running for a third term.

Now, up against that, he'll be 82 years old.

It looks like he does have some vascular issues.

I mean, they've reported that, so let's say that that's probably true.

And he's got an unsteady gait, and he is getting older.

But I don't think a guy like him lease power

easily.

I just don't think that.

And so, I hope that, and I hope that uh, my buddies who are institutionalists in Washington say that that's the last stand for them, uh, that they'll fight that tooth and nail.

Those are Republicans saying that, who I'm still a donor to several of these Republican senators.

But I don't, I don't know.

I you have to take him literally and seriously when he's thinking about these things.

Uh, I don't think that money goes to lots of people in the midterms.

Trump is for Trump.

He's not for other people.

He doesn't give a shit.

And so I think this is something very smart that he's done, though.

And I think people should understand this.

He's not a traditional politician.

A traditional politician, an Obama, a George W.

Bush stops raising money in their second term for their own PACs.

He didn't do that.

And I think he's now setting a precedent for future politicians to not do that because that will give him, let's say he was a normal politician.

He'd be, oh, I got got leverage now in the system long after I'm lame ducked and I can pick and choose who I'm going to give this money to in different congressional races.

I don't think Trump's going to do that.

Trump will figure out a way to use that money.

I think the pardons are going up now, probably $100 million now for a pardon.

I think they started at the $3 to $5 million level.

And Trump should just put out a retail price list.

You know, say, look, here's the list for all the shit that you can get from me.

You know, you want to come out and dinner with me.

You're a crypto guy, $5 million.

You want a pardon now it's got to be a hundred million because you didn't go to that dinner did you did you go to that dinner no i haven't i haven't seen or been around trump you want to know the last time i talked to trump what when that was it was april it was easter sunday uh april of 2019 he called me i thought he was calling me to wish me a happy easter but he wasn't he was calling me to lay into me because i had written an article that said that it was an open letter to the president the press is not the enemy of the people.

Stop saying that.

The press is there to protect the people, but it's also the font of our financial innovation.

You and I have talked about this.

Being able to speak freely in a society, you teach second-grade children that they can speak freely.

They go on and become Kara Swisher, or they create a Facebook, or they create an iPhone.

Other countries that don't do that, they have to steal our technology.

Trump got really pissed at me, laid into me

and he told me that I was a deep stater and some other shit that he said.

And that was the last time he spoke.

So, no, I haven't been around Trump

since then.

Happy Easter.

Yeah, happy Easter.

What do you say when someone says that?

Okay.

I disagree.

And I think you're being wrong.

I think you're wrong.

I think history is going to judge what I'm saying to be more right than you.

Right.

And then he more or less abruptly hung up the phone.

Oh, wow.

But I got in the happy Easter, by the way.

He did, he did derisively say Happy Easter back to me.

Yeah, he's a miserable dude.

You know, he's a miserable dude.

Let me give a news flash to every pivot listener.

Okay.

Okay.

News flash.

Anybody close to Trump hates his guts, okay?

Okay.

If you're in Trump's orbit, you're in the first electron orbit.

Laura Loomer seems to like him.

Who does?

Laura Loomer.

Yeah, you know, I think Laura's not in the, I don't think she's in the first electron orbit.

Right.

I'm talking about you got to be in the first electron orbit.

You're Melania Trump, you move out of the goddamn White House.

You know, you got to get, if you're Ivanka and Jared, you got to stay away because he eviscerated Jared after the Abraham Accord thing.

And so you got to get out of his electron orbit.

But if you're in the vortex of the orbit, General Kelly,

H.R.

McMaster, you pick the person.

They hate the guy's guts because they see how malevolent of a guy he is.

They see how dishonest and how ruthless he is.

And that shit rubs off on you, Kara Swisher, if you're sitting around it too long.

You start to stick it.

It's toxic.

Sounds like it.

Yeah, you start to stink like it.

Speaking of toxic, let's do a quick rundown of latest happenings with the Epstein saga, which I predicted would continue.

And it is.

Charlemagne the God suggested the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein information is causing a political coup among Republicans on Fox News.

Trump reacted on Truth Social, saying the radio host knows nothing.

Jelaine Maxwell has been moved to a minimum security prison camp in Texas against

sexual offenders aren't allowed there, but she has been allowed.

And Republicans are still split on which side to take as polling shows almost 80% of Trump voters in favor of releasing the files.

I have not talked to you about this.

Thoughts on what's happening and how long it lasts?

Because everyone felt it was a distraction.

I never did because it's at the core of QAnon.

It's at the core of the deep state stuff.

And he himself has fed these toxic creatures for far too long for them to just give up.

I think he's going to survive this too.

I mean, maybe I'm on the other side of this trade than you.

I think he survives this.

Oh, I think he survives it.

I just think it's damaging.

That's right.

Well, I think it's damaging.

And maybe Charlemagne's right.

It sets up a 26

divergence, meaning there could be conservative Republicans that say I'm MAGA light or I'm a little less MAGA.

I'm MAGA without pedophilia.

I see Marjorie Taylor Greene doing it constantly.

Yeah, maybe I'm MAGA without pedophilia.

I don't, that could be a good bumper sticker.

I don't, you know, I'm, you know,

I'm 18 plus.

I'm not 14 and below.

These disgusting sons of bitches.

But, but Trump is, you know, he's where there's smoke, there's fire.

Okay.

You can't see him with Epstein.

You can't, there's smoke, there's fire there.

The letter has got Trump so crazed because the letter plus the doodling on the letter is implying something that Trump does not want out there in the marketplace, which is why he's put a $10 billion speed bump together against Rupert Murdoch and the news court.

But, you know, and Rupert doesn't give a shit.

You know, Rupert hates Trump like everybody else.

And his attitude is: I'm 94, have at it.

Let me drop a few more bombs on you.

We have the bombs.

Okay.

So now,

again, you have to tell me if there's something unthinkably nefarious.

I'm not going to say what it is, but you know what it is, and your viewers and listeners know what it is.

If that comes out and it's incontrovertible, it's not AI generated, it's not any of that, it's incontrovertible evidence of something unthinkably nefarious.

Is that enough to remove Trump?

I think you think it is.

You know, oh, the McCain thing is going to ruin him, doesn't ruin him.

Oh, we're going to grab him by the, you know what, in the bus with Billy Bush.

No, it doesn't.

Nothing hurts Trump.

It could damage him.

The insurrection.

Yeah.

The insurrection.

I mean, people are dying.

He fomented the violence.

They have him on tape doing it.

They had his former chief of staff

basically was going to be their key witness.

He wins the election.

I think we should stipulate for the pivot people.

He's one of the luckiest son of a bitches on the planet.

Every time he flips the coin, it comes up his way.

So, you know i don't i don't think he gets knocked out by this but i do think

that just ghelain thing is interesting see so the ghlaine thing is like okay let me send my lawyer who i trust hey let me knock on the

ghelane are you there hello are you there okay listen i know you know a lot of bad stuff keep your mouth shut we're going to move you to a minimum security prison we're going to make it easier for you

you listening and then in about six months when this blows over we're going to commute you sentence or we're going to give you work relief or we're going to do something for you but you got to keep your mouth shut it's a it's a great mob move they're doing it right out in the open like the way the kgb would do it so it's keep your mouth shut because if she starts to just tell on democrats that's a problem too correct no no no you got to keep your mouth shut

you got to keep your mouth shut because because

as us italians you and me knows almerta you got to keep your mouth shut that's like a full-on Sicilian move, the code of silence.

And by the way, with Omerta, you keep your mouth shut.

Remember, when a mobster went to jail, keep your mouth shut.

We're going to take care of your family.

And they're going to get VIG from our operations to take care of your sons and daughters and your wife.

And when you come out of jail, we're going to get you a job.

Now, you could end up like Sylvester Stallone in Oklahoma, but you're going to get a job, right?

And so that's what it is.

And that's what Trump and Todd Blanche are trying to do.

I think that's pretty obvious.

And, but this is the thing that makes me laugh.

You know, John Thune, you're an American jellyfish.

I mean, you should write, you write such great books like

Burn Book and shit like that.

You should write The American Jellyfish, you know, starring John Thune and Mitch McConnell, starring, you know, the American jellyfishes.

What are you guys doing?

You're really this big of cowards?

You got a guy that's morally depraved.

He's bringing down your party.

He's a millstone on the morality of the American people.

We always like, when you and I were growing up, we liked to think of America in our patriotism as benevolent and generous and good-natured America that was going to help other nations.

And now we have this morally depraved lunatic in the White House that's stealing our thunder and is reducing our soft power all over the world, okay, which is never a good thing for a superpower, by the way.

You can go throughout 5,000 years of history and know that's never a good thing.

And yet he's doing that.

We're allowing him to do that because we've got a bunch of bozos that are supposed to check him, the American jellyfishes.

What are you guys doing?

And the answer is: no, no, we're going to wait Trump out, wait him out.

We're so afraid of him and we're afraid of his MAGA base.

Yeah.

So why?

When do they turn?

Is there.

Oh, yeah, the midterm.

That's why Trump has got all that money in the war chest.

You know,

he knows they're coming for him in the midterms.

You know, you remember that scene in The Wizard of Oz where the witch gets accidentally hit by the water bucket and she starts melting?

Right.

It's actually like an orange witch, though he's not really like the green witch, but he's like an orange wicked witch of the West Ring.

The water's about to hit Trump.

Okay.

And that's like a November 2026 water hit.

And as he starts to melt, these guys are going to go, oh, you know, we didn't mean this.

Or, oh, we didn't realize this.

Or, oh, we're sorry about if he melts.

If, in fact, he melts.

Like,

let me say this to you.

And I want you to really think about this.

Okay.

They're running around saying they're going to arrest Clinton, Hillary Clinton.

They're going to arrest Barack Obama, okay?

It's all contraindicated from an intelligence report that the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Marco Rubio, signed off on, which was irrefutable, that everything that they're saying is not true.

Why are they doing that?

They're doing that to distract you.

They're doing that to rev up the MAGA base.

They're doing that to say, don't look at the man behind the curtain that's flapping behind the curtain.

Focus on this, which is important to you.

Obama is bad.

There's underlying racism to that, by the way.

I think you know that.

Obviously, I just don't think it works.

I don't think it works.

I think the Epstein stuff is much stronger.

It hasn't worked yet.

He's tried with the Washington Redskin Commanders and the Cleveland Guardian Indians.

He's now going at it with the young woman who was in the Gene commercial.

I think her name is Sidney Sweeney.

And yeah, so he's definitely trying stuff.

You know, he's a, remember, he's the Napoleon of the culture war.

Like the best thing that Trump has going for him are the Democrats because he knows how to drop a bomb on the battlefield and they run towards it.

And then he's doing something over here.

You know, he's master of deflection.

All right, we're going to get to that next, actually.

We're going to go on a quick break.

When we come back, we're going to talk about the corporation for public broadcasting as it winds down operations because there are very real repercussions to everything he's doing with these distractions.

Support for the show comes from Chevrolet.

These days, people everywhere are looking for ways to cut back on spending and keep a bit of green in their wallets.

It's time to check out the Chevy Equinox EV.

The Equinox EV LT is America's most affordable EV to boast over 315 miles of range and an EPA estimated 319 mile range on a full charge with front-wheel drive based on a comparison of MS RPs.

And starting around $34,995, Equinox EV is a steal offering you a value you can count on.

With its bold commanding presence and athletic styling, you're sure to move ahead with confidence, while a massive 17-inch diagonal center touchscreen helps you stay connected along the way.

With style, tech, and great value, the Equinox EV is the smart choice.

Learn more at Chevy.com forward slash Equinox EV.

The manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees, and optional equipment.

Dealer sets final price.

Support for this show comes from Framer.

Kids today never understand what we went through back in the day.

Building a website, for instance, used to be a lot of time and a lot of money, so you only did it if you could afford the overhead and really needed it.

Nowadays, there are incredible tools like Framer that can build the website of your dreams fast, no coding required.

Framer is a design-first, no-code website builder that lets anyone ship a product-ready site in minutes.

That means you have the freedom to build a website that is professional, polished, and uniquely yours, no code, and no compromises.

Built-in AI will handle the heavy lifting by generating starter layouts and then coding behind the scenes.

You'll be able to A-B test your design, set up funnels, see exactly where people click, all from one place.

Ready to build a site that looks hand-coded without hiring a developer?

Launch your site for free at framer.com and use the code Pivot to get your first month of Pro on the house that's framer.com promo code pivot framer.com promo code pivot rules and restrictions apply

choice hotels get you more for your money so you can maximize any road trip like these road trippers making waffles and eating fresh fruit in their natural habitat the breakfast area at a comfort inn i just love seeing a vacation maximized in the wild check into more book direct at choicehotels.com

Anthony, we're back with more news.

The Corporation of Republic Broadcasting says it will begin winding down operations following an over $1 billion cut in federal funding.

The move, it's not a very big, it's about 100 people.

The move will, what they do is they distribute funds out to local stations, a lot of them rural, by the way.

The move will severely impact local operations of PBS and NPR.

Both NPR and PBS say they're committed to maintaining service after the closure.

The CPB told employees most positions will be eliminated on September 30th.

This is a loss of local news and rural communities.

This is a closing not of the big NPR stations or not of PBS stations, but the small ones, which provide all kinds of news and other things like that, and places that don't have them.

And I'm going to link it with

institutions worried about losing funding.

The Smithsonian will restore information about President Trump's impeachments after removing a placard on the topic in July.

This was reported by the Washington Post.

The museum says the placard was removed after a review of legacy content, which was demanded by the Trump administration and was meant to be a temporary addition to a 25-year exhibition.

The exhibition in question notes that only three presidents have seriously faced removal, Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton.

It's not true.

A person familiar with the plans told the Washington Post the content review took place following this pressure from the White House to remove an art museum director.

So museums altering history, closing down of long institutions, which is something Republicans have wanted for a while, but it will actually affect

the small local news and rural communities more than anybody else.

This is more than a distraction because it actually, things happen.

Things actually happen.

I mean,

this is Trump.

He's the, you know, look, there were certain rules in Washington.

The sacred cow of the left was the

public broadcasters.

Ronald Reagan railed on it, but he never did anything.

Remember, Ronald Reagan railed on Roe v.

Wade, but never did anything.

And Trump has come into town, and he's basically now saying, hey, those sacred rules where we rail on you're on the left and you rail on something on the right and

you don't do anything and vice versa.

We're ending that.

And again, I think it makes for a coarser society.

If you're asking me practically, will the society survive the end of that?

It will.

Does it suck for those rural areas?

It does, but it will survive it.

Okay.

And could something else creep up or could there be a publicly funded or non-publicly funded, a charitably funded replacement?

It's all very possible.

But I think

to me, it's more about the rules, Cara.

It's more about, okay.

We're going to smash people.

We don't want any civility to our government.

We don't want anybody having lunch in the cloakroom or the cafeteria.

They can barely work.

Apparently, they can barely work out with each other in the gym now.

They're in separate areas of the gym.

And it's just bad for America.

That's not how we got here.

The idea was that we were going to have some consensus, we're going to have some compromise, and we're going to have some civility with each other.

And Trump doesn't like that because remember, there's nobody that Trump hates more than himself.

Nobody, which is why he's always got three things of a self-hater.

Humiliation rituals for people that you're insecure around.

That's every world leader.

He tries to bring them into the White House and ensnare them in some type of humiliation ritual.

Public humiliation.

Or, yeah, or he'll bring them to Scotland, even though he's the head of state.

Kirstarmer, he's showing up as a guest in his own country to be humiliated, where Trump is railing on the London mayor.

And so, what self-haters do is they create and foment hatred.

They excoriate and try to humiliate through humiliation rituals.

And then the third thing they do is they want to leave a stain and legacy of that.

They want people to be turned on each other because it makes them feel better.

They get satisfaction out of seeing people turn on each other.

Trump gets off on the idea that we're going after each other.

He likes.

So those are the things.

He's a, I mean, he's, he's a, he's a, you know, a lot of weird things about the guys.

He's like a weirdo, but like the self-hatred thing, do not underestimate the self-hatred, you know?

It could be the side effects of all the orange shit that's going into his bloodstream.

You know what I mean?

You, you, everyone talks about these are distractions.

You said it several times.

These are actual things that happen now.

Like we're changing things in museums.

We're closing down this.

And so I was at a

book fair this weekend, and Jeff Goldberg, who has had some good licks in on Trump at the Atlantic, was saying, you know, that he does all these distractions.

And I almost got him and said, well, here's six things that actually happened because of the distractions.

They weren't, they're not minor.

We use that term a lot, like, but they're actually distractions with results, right?

Like, this is something that the right has been trying to close down PBS for years or the corporation for years, decades.

Okay, but let me just take the line.

Think about what I'm saying, though.

We're going to close down PBS because it's going to make people sore.

And it's a sacred cow that the Republicans always talked about, but never did anything about.

So now we're going to drop a bomb here to widen the divide between us.

I see.

Trump wants to do that.

So you have to understand that, yes, there are distractions, but there's also, I want to leave a legacy of disrepair and hatred.

And I want you guys to hate each other after I leave.

You know, because by the way, Jackie O, F her, I'm going to pave over her rose garden.

Okay, because why am I going to do that?

Because you're going to get triggered and pissed about that.

And I want you triggered and pissed because I hate myself so much that I want hatred to be an exponential force for my personality.

Like, you know, Monroe had a doctrine, stay out of the Western Hemisphere.

Truman had a doctrine, we're going to contain

communism.

The Trump doctrine is a manifestation of his own self-hatred.

And once once you see that prism clearly, and you see, oh, okay, he hates himself.

So, this is what he's going to do.

Oh, wow, he's really afraid of Putin.

Putin must really have something on him that's scaring the living daylights out of him, which is why he's immobile and paralyzed against a guy that's running a failed state with a declining population and high alcoholism.

But I'm going to go, I'm going to go in that direction.

But everything is through the prism of self-hatred.

So, if he can hurt you, Cara, he will.

If he can humiliate you, he will.

If he can put JD Vance in a meme where he looks like a big fat Cabbage Patch doll riding in a separate clown car from him as they're chasing Obama on the freeway in the OJ Bronco, he will.

And by the way, JD says, ha ha, this was funny.

He's crying on the inside.

He's crying on the inside.

That's another episode.

No, but Cara, you have to understand this he, because Trump is going to put him through.

You remember that scene in Fargo where the guy's going through the wood chipper?

That's J.D.

Vance.

Okay, Trump is going to throw him so definitively into the wood chipper because

he doesn't want a younger guy replacing him when he leaves.

No, he wants there to be a total fiasco in Civil War.

Who does he want?

Just very briefly, who does he want?

If you had a guest, who would he pick?

Nobody.

No.

Remember when he fired that blonde girl, I can't remember her name, the blonde woman from the first season of Apprentice, he replaced her with Ivanka.

Remember, she got a few speaking gigs.

It pissed him off, right?

And so then he put Vavanka.

So if Ivanka and Don Jr.

are not replacing him or Eric not replacing him, nobody.

You know, remember, remember what it, remember what I know, I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler, but just remember this piece of history.

When they told Hitler he was losing, he said, okay, great, flood the coal mines, bring down the electrical grid in the country.

And they looked at him and said, what?

Yeah, well, if there's not going to be a thousand-year Reich,

let's destroy the whole thing.

If you were to pick one of the kids that he would pick to run, which one would it be?

Well, you know, Ivanka's very smart.

She's very talented.

She's capable.

Eric is a very smart guy.

You know, when I listen to Eric talk about things like the blockchain, he understands it.

Okay.

But the heartbeat of MAGA is Donald Trump Jr.

Okay.

They like him.

Okay.

And so I don't know, you know, I don't know which of those three, but I think Trump would be happy with all three, but they're three different flavors.

You know, Ivanka is basically basically a democrat right so you know probably no on her uh eric is not politically motivated uh but he's probably smarter you know than most people think but it probably it would have to be don jr don jr is beloved by the base if you if you ever see him with the base you'll know uh they hold him in very high regard and do you okay so I have a peace agreement with those guys.

You know, when I got into the fight with Trump, I always got along with them.

And my agreement with them was, don't say anything bad about me on Twitter.

I won't say anything bad about you.

Kara Swisher is going to ask you about me on the Pivot podcast five years from now.

Don't say anything bad about me.

And I have lived up to that agreement, and they have lived up to that agreement.

So I'll simply say, I get on with those guys.

Eric wanted to come to my Bitcoin conference in Wyoming.

I invited him.

No problem.

I think they know that their father wants to pick fights with lots and lots of people.

And I don't think they want to be fighting with all the people that their father wants them to fight with.

God, that makes sense.

All right, Anthony, one more quick break.

We'll be back for wins and fails.

Talk about stepping up and fighting!

It's time to level up your game, introducing the all-new ESPN app.

All of ESPN, all in one place.

Your home for the most live sports and the best championship moments.

The electricity is palpable.

Step up your game with no annual contract required.

It's the ultimate fan experience.

Level up for more on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com.

Sign up now.

I'm Ashley Graham, and as a parent, I know the back-to-school transition can be a lot.

When it comes to wellness, Ollie supports me and my family through it all.

Kids Multi is big in my house.

It supports their immune system, and they love to take it.

A win-win for everyone.

Shop these products at Ollie.com or retailers nationwide.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Today explained Shop Robinson outside the Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C.

to ask, would you want to live on Mars?

No, I wouldn't want to live on Mars.

No.

I just think simply it's just too dangerous.

Yeah.

Oh, hell yeah, of course.

It'd be cool to see something different and be pioneers.

Even with the risk involved?

I mean, we risk our lives when we walk out here on the streets.

No, I would miss my family.

They're all here.

I would not want to leave them behind.

If I got paid for it, yeah.

How much did you want to get paid for it?

$10,000.

That's it?

Yeah?

You got to ask for more.

Okay, $1 million.

That's more like it.

No, because the risk of death is too high.

What are the risks?

Have you seen The Martian?

With Matt Damon?

Yeah.

Thank you.

Living on Mars on Today Explained from Vox.

Okay, Anthony, let's hear some wins and fails.

You go first.

Okay, so

wins, I'm going to say this.

You're probably not going to like this, but I think Elon Musk is winning.

I think he's backed into business.

I think he raised a lot of money on XAI.

I participated in that.

I will fully fully disclose that I'm an investor.

But I think Elon Musk is winning.

And I think so much so, and I think Donald Trump is so afraid of Elon Musk.

He must be that.

He started the Epstein thing.

The Epstein thing, and he tweeted out, oh, I love Elon.

I'm not coming after his businesses, you know, blah, blah.

Okay, so I think Elon Musk is winning.

So that's a big win.

He got, he just, so people know, Tesla just granted shares to Elon worth of $29 billion, describing the business.

So

that's another big win, less than the $55 billion.

That's correct.

I was like, well, it's a a half.

Yeah.

But, you know, that's also a win.

But I think Elon's winning, whether people like that or not, I think that's a definitive objective win.

So you invested in XAI.

You think that's a winner?

Or I think

he's a real behind.

He's really quite behind in the race compared to Google or ChatGPT.

You think he's behind?

I don't know.

I put $300 a month into Super Grok.

I think the thing is phenomenal.

Okay.

And I think it's distinctive.

But again, that's me.

I'm not an AI expert.

I'm just, I used it for different things i i'm i'm a i'm a cloud claude i guess it's called subscriber yeah chat gbt subscriber use them all use them all i i do i do spend a lot of time if elon goes and does his businesses he's better off that's for sure but i do think he is quite involved he was the one that started the epstein stuff so he that was a warning to trump so i'm i'm gonna tell you i'm gonna tell you another winner i'll give you three winners and i'll give you three losers okay another big winner with controversial jerome powell uh because jerome powell's legacy is intact.

Okay, the guy's done a decent job, not perfect.

He got transitory inflation wrong.

It was more secular, but he's done a decent job.

He's a good human being, and he's one of the few guys that have stuck.

stuck it to Trump a little bit.

And he's done it in a very diplomatic way with some level of aplomb.

And I think people need to learn about it that way.

And then

the third winner, believe it or not, is actually the UK government related to the U.S.

Because they got the deal.

They moved first, took advantage of Trump's love affair with

the monarchy and the Anglophile nature of Trump and his mom from Scotland, and they got a 10% trade deal done before anybody else.

And I think that they're a winner.

I think the three failures, okay, are Vladimir Putin, huge failure.

He's coming to the end here, Vladimir Putin.

I don't think Vladimir Putin will survive what's coming because you can't do what he did, declare war on Ukraine, lose the war, and stay in power in Russia.

And you say, well, he hasn't lost the war, but he also hasn't won the war.

And it's three years into it.

And, you know, he may be able to stalemate this because of the compromise he has on Trump till 28.

But I think you'll see Putin out.

to the great surprise of people.

So he's a failure.

Another big failure is the American car industry is going to be slammed around by these tariffs.

They won't be able to absorb all the prices.

They're making good cars, but they're not making great cars.

The tariffs on the European cars are not going to overly help them, frankly, because a lot of Mercedes and BMW are being made in the country now.

And so I think there's a problem there for the American car company.

I think that's on the side of failure.

And last but not least, The biggest failure that I've seen in the five years, what I would say, if he's put out the yard markers and said, okay, last five, there's been 10 years of Trump.

Who's been the greatest failure in the last five years?

That's the American Congress.

The American Congress had a responsibility to check and balance the American system.

And to use an Italian expression, they did Ugats.

They did Ugats.

Okay, and your viewers and listeners could look up what Ugats means, but they've really done nothing.

And they're going to be judged very poorly by history.

So those are the three winners.

Those are three failures.

All right.

I'm going to do mine.

I'm going to do just two failures, actually, that were really striking in two different places.

One, the Israeli government just votes to remove the attorney general, who's a Netanyahu critic.

I think they have done more to diminish their standing, especially among young people.

And they have only themselves to blame, especially with what's happening in Gaza.

More and more people are calling it a genocide.

We can see with our eyes what's happening there.

And so I think this government is hurtling towards illegality, you know what I mean, in the things they're doing.

And I think the thing that holds up a country is a country of laws.

And, you know, you believe in the stock market, you believe in the laws, you believe in the courts.

And I think they're,

he's going to see a lot of pushback from people in that country at some point.

And I think they've done it to themselves.

They have lost a generation of young people who would have been supportive of Israel.

So I think that's that, especially this voting to remove the Attorney General, which is, i think the at the heart of things like that because because he's a netanyahu critic and netanyahu's sucked up into corruption that is so obvious um and he's bad at it by the way trump is quite good at corruption um and uh and netanyahu's bad at it the other thing is nancy mace running for uh governor of um south carolina i think i've never seen a politician just sort of run herself into a wall on so many things.

Someone who seemed promising for sure has become really a joke to everybody in Congress that I talk to.

I think she's looking for her exit to try to run for governor.

She'll certainly be ahead in the beginning because of her name recognition and the antics that she pulls.

But I think she's probably like a lot of

men can do it a little better, but they're not necessarily.

And I think she has ruined what could have been a really interesting political career.

But I think she's got a lot of personal problems that are on top of that.

If I had to say, I agree agree with you about Elon.

If he gets back to business, I think he's, I think Trump should be, everyone was talking about him being, he should be scared of Trump.

I think Trump should be scared of him.

That's my feeling.

I think he is, he's not Omarosa, like I say.

He's not Omarosa.

And he, he is the first person who mentioned the Epstein stuff.

He has enormous power around the world.

And so I think if he gets back to business and

focuses there, he has a lot of levers to pull.

Not to interrupt, but just remember this one tweet, which was very insightful.

Elon said,

you're going to be around for three and a half years.

I'm going to be around for the next 40.

Correct.

Correct.

And I think Elon, whatever his weaknesses are, and I'm sure we all have strengths and weaknesses.

He's got a lot of weaknesses.

Okay, but you're very kind to him.

I think we have to stipulate that he's a smart guy.

Absolutely.

And he sees the egg.

He sees the hair on the egg, particularly as it relates to.

And by the way,

I told his buddies he was going to get blown out of there.

Elon lasted 12 Scaramucci's.

He did.

Okay, 12 times longer.

By the way, it was exactly 11.8, but I'm the official scorer of Scaramucci as I think I should be.

And I'm a generous guy.

I round up.

So he lasted 12 Scaramucci's.

And that was 12 times longer than me.

But here's the thing.

Elon has seen the malevolence because you don't write, you're on the list.

If that's a code for, you're a really bad FG.

You're a really bad FG.

Yep, I agree with you.

I think he's someone who's going to endure.

And if he cleaned himself up, I mean, a lot of what he's done is unforgivable, but he will be forgiven, especially if he creates economic value.

And he will be around a lot longer.

I don't think that's necessarily a win, but I think he definitely is in much more of a commanding position than Trump realizes.

And I think he was wrong to

fight, to do what they did to him.

I think there would have been a nicer way to part.

But you can't do that with Trump.

You can't do that.

You can't do it.

That's right.

I would see Trump maybe embracing him again.

Anyway, I don't know if Elon will embrace Trump, though.

I think he's moved on.

We want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.

Go to nymag.com/slash pivot, submit a question for the show, or call 85551-PIVOT.

Over on On with Kara Swisher, this week I spoke with former Labor Secretary Robert Reich

about why Democrats are struggling right now.

Let's listen to a clip.

The reason Democrats are so unpopular is they don't have a coherent and authentic message that translates

to average people as authentic and real, because the corporate Democrats, the financial Democrats, the Wall Street Democrats don't allow them to.

You know, a lot of Democrats I know are scared.

They don't want to bite the hands that feed them.

I think you'll probably agree with that, Anthony.

I agree with that.

He is a former professor of mine.

I have an enormous amount of respect for him.

But he also gave an interview in one of the Sunday news magazines.

I can't remember if it was the New York Times or the FT, but I read the interview.

And he's calling for the Mondamis and he's calling for these sort of harder left people to coalesce the party.

I think that'll be a 1972 McGovern-like nightmare for the Democrats.

And I think it's a big mistake because it's a center-right country.

We have religious orthodoxy in this country.

You and I might be secular.

I'm not saying you are, but I'm more secular than the religious Orthodox.

But I think that Europeans in general don't understand this because they, by and large, now the majority of the population is secular.

But this country has a lot of religious ferocity to it still.

And I think the Democrats have really missed the mark on that.

You know what Trump once said to me?

This is an important thing to tell your viewers.

Trump said to me on the campaign plane, he says, you know, you're an idiot.

I said, yes, I know I'm an idiot, but why am I an idiot?

He said, well, you're a Wall Street guy.

You're fiscally conservative and you're socially liberal.

Am I right?

I said, yes, I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

He says, my base, Anthony, my base, fiscally can, fiscally, excuse me, my base, Anthony, fiscally liberal, socially conservative.

He's correct.

That's how, that is actually, I just was talking to Kristen Celtis Anderson.

She said that exactly.

It is true.

That is true.

Yeah, by the way, he said that to me in 2016, the Democrats wake up, wake up.

He understands his base.

And believe it or not, a lot of his face used to vote for you.

Okay.

And so wake up and get in the middle before it's too late.

Well, I have a different take on this.

I think everybody should be who they are and authentic of where they are.

If you're Abby Spanberger, you're a centrist right in Virginia or Mickey Sherill in.

in New Jersey.

And if you're Mom Donnie, be mom, be yourself.

I think be yourself is, and it may be different across the country.

And I'm not sure anyone should stand for anything with the Democrats.

I think they should stand for a lot of things.

And I know that sounds crazy, but if you're genuine to who you are, I think you do well where you are.

You're always looking for someone who represents everybody.

And that's impossible in this day and age.

I think it's well said, but I just think if you're going to go hard left in this country right now, particularly with the wokeism ending, go hard left, you're going to lose elections.

That's what I think.

You may win in New York and you may win in Minnesota.

You may win the mayor's race in Minnesota, Minneapolis, but you're going to lose the big general election.

And it's going to be very popular.

If you're not, for the general election, for the larger country, that's absolutely true.

But we'll see.

We'll see where it goes.

Can I ask you one last question?

Please.

Right now, I want to do a prediction.

Who are the two presidential flights in 2028?

So I think Newsom is going to be the nominee for the Democrats.

I think he'll pick a Midwestern moderate.

He'll probably pick a white guy.

I know that sounds crazy, but I think he probably will.

It'll end the virtue signaling that's going on on the left, and you'll get the same policies, and they'll be more acceptable to some of the anti-woke moderates that are out there.

So I think it's Newsome.

Not Westmore.

Not Westmore.

No, I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I think, you know, I mean, I don't know how honest you want me to be on this podcast, but I think

I think Obama has hurt the ability for an African-American to get the nomination.

I don't think people realize the existential damage that Obama did.

Van Jones called it a white lash.

That was the apotheosis of Donald Trump.

And so I think the way Obama handled the presidency has hurt that, if I'm just being brutally honest.

And I think the last two women that were the nominees for the Democrats have hurt the women's standing in the party for now.

And people could be very mad at me for saying this.

I'm talking about this as a realist, as an analyst,

not a normative thing of what ought or should be.

I'm just talking about what actually is.

I think Newsom gets it.

Newsom has shown some muscularity.

Newsom did a good job in LA in terms of the way they defended themselves against Trump's brown-shirted lunatics.

And Lucom is standing up on the gerrymandering.

And Lucom is putting a finger in Trump's eye.

And he's doing a better job trolling him in social media.

He's doing a great job.

And I think he was.

And by the way, I was on Gavin's podcast.

Yeah.

And I read to Gavin.

He's gotten to every white guy, but I joke with him.

I'm like, another white guy today.

How interesting.

The other thing I would tell you just quickly is that it will not be, it will not be Marco Rubio.

It will not be JD Vance.

But I think there will be a candidate that comes out of the woodwork that surprises people.

I know this is crazy.

It could be a Charlie Baker, who's now running the

NCAA.

He was the former governor of

Massachusetts.

It could be a Jon Thune, okay, although I think he's a jellyfish.

I think he's a well-regarded.

President jellyfish to you.

Go ahead.

Yeah, president jellyfish to me, but I think he's a guy that could

help the Republicans get back to something that's more normal to their principles and their philosophy.

But I don't think it's going to be Vance.

And I don't think, remember, the MAGA ends with Trump.

It's a personality cult.

The people have more or less accepted that, even though they don't like pedophilia, they're holding their noses, lots of them.

But they won't be able, Advance won't be able to command that or Rubio.

And so I think it's like a Thune Baker sort of a guy going up against Newsome.

It'll be white males.

Yeah, white males as far as you could see.

Going up against white males, Carol.

Males are as high as an elephant's eye.

I can hear the derision in your voice, but I just think that's what's going to happen.

Yeah, I agree with you.

I have to say I do agree with you.

Although I'm not sure it's Newsom, but there's a number of choices in that regard.

Okay, that is the show.

Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back on Friday.

Anthony, as usual, thank you for joining us.

Appreciate being on.

Give my regards to Scott.

I will.

And thank you so much.

I will read us out.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver.

Ernie Enderdott engineered this episode.

Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast.

Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/slash pod.

We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

And Anthony, I'll be right over to look in your closet and put on your Batman outfit.

Thank you.

You could fit in my Batman outfit.

You know, you have the same facial structure as me.

Goodbye.

Me and Adam West have a lot of fun.

Goodbye, Mooji.

Talk to you later.

All right.

See you.