OpenAI Abandons For-Profit Plans, Disney and Uber Earnings, and Meta’s “Creepy” AI

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Speaker 18 Scott is speechless, which is excellent.

Speaker 18 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher.

Speaker 19 And I get a call from this iconic media company that is doing, or a reporter there, and I won't say which company, that is doing a profile on Kara Swisher.

Speaker 18 You've had one there.

Speaker 19 And her first question was, what qualities make Kara such an amazing leader? And I'm like, oh, fuck, this is going to be rough. This is, I literally, I'm not exaggerating, Kara.

Speaker 19 I went and made myself a drink. I'm like, okay.

Speaker 19 Okay. This is how it's going to go.
This is how it's going to go.

Speaker 19 And it was literally like getting in a colonoscopy without anesthetic. I just sat there and said, okay, it's going to be over soon.
It's going to be over soon.

Speaker 18 Did you embarrass me? My instructions to you are to embarrass me in some fashion.

Speaker 19 Well, here's the thing, when you do these things, what you realize is it's entirely up to them. They could twist your words anyway.
Yeah. And they could use,

Speaker 19 you know, one or two things I said to support some narrative that was negative. But I definitely got the feeling it was going to, it's going to be a giant puff piece.

Speaker 18 No, it's not. No, I have a very complex, you know, go find somebody who's like, oh, I'm not saying saying you deserve a puppy.

Speaker 18 I gave them recommendations of people who don't like me. I'm like, they're going to give you an off-the-record piece on me.
So you might as well just call them.

Speaker 19 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do the same thing, but I just make sure they're assholes.
I'm a big believer in what FDR said, and that is please judge me by my enemies.

Speaker 19 I love giving out the names of some people who hate me.

Speaker 18 I'm like, here's who's going to say something to me nice on the record, not nice off the record. Here's someone who's going to, you know, I gave them a range of people.

Speaker 18 I think it's focused on me helping people get away from old media. I think that's my impression.

Speaker 19 Yeah, they wanted to talk about the people you've nurtured and all that stuff.

Speaker 18 There's quite a lot. There are quite a lot.
Yeah. Yeah, including you, Scott Galloway.

Speaker 19 Yes, that's right. Although I was never really in media.
I was.

Speaker 18 No, you weren't.

Speaker 19 Look, I always say the same thing. I'm like, the most rewarding thing about our relationship is that it is very purposeful and nice to resuscitate someone's flagging career.

Speaker 19 And that has been very nice for me. I saw that you were struggling.
And I thought, okay, if Tina Faye can do this for Alec Baldwin, there's no reason that Scott Galloway can't do it for Kara Swisher.

Speaker 18 I know. Thank you so much.
I just, I'm in so much in your debt. I was struggling.
I do have to say, often a lot of people are like, I really helped you.

Speaker 19 I'm like, success has many fathers and failure is an orphan.

Speaker 19 I remember working at Levi Strauss and Company in the 90s. And this is the weakest flex in the world, but the fastest zero to billion apparel brand at that point.

Speaker 19 And then the fastest one after that was Old Old Navy. But before that, the fastest one, what apparel brand?

Speaker 19 It's literally the lamest apparel brand in history, but it was the fastest zero to a billion apparel brand. And it was owned by Levi-Strauss and Company.
It wasn't Levi's. You know what it was?

Speaker 18 What, Jordash?

Speaker 19 No, it was like screaming to the world, don't have sex with me. It was, do you remember Dockers?

Speaker 18 I love Dockers.

Speaker 19 Oh, God, don't say that. Jesus, stop.

Speaker 18 Please make her stop. They had extra power.
The thing is, I can totally see that.

Speaker 19 I can totally see you in Dockers.

Speaker 19 Oh, my God.

Speaker 18 They're very comfortable. Oh, my God.

Speaker 18 I literally have the same clothes since high school.

Speaker 19 Anyone who believes being gay is anything to do with nurture. It is so nature.
You were literally born in Dockers, weren't you?

Speaker 18 I was. I love Dockers.

Speaker 19 Dockers in a, I'm not even going to try and describe the kind of lesbian fashion or lash fashion.

Speaker 18 I had extra pockets. That's all I remember.
Anyways, I love those. Back to me.

Speaker 19 I would walk around. Levi Straslinkami was my biggest consulting client or profit for like two years in the 90s.

Speaker 19 And everybody, everybody would introduce themselves as the founder of Dockers because it had been so successful.

Speaker 19 There would be like nine people who were the, not the co-founder, but the founder of Dockers. Everybody decided that they had started this idea.
And it, it, it's so interesting.

Speaker 19 It basically took advantage of this huge trend. And that was casual work Friday was the stay-at-home the work from home trend in the 90s.

Speaker 19 And men had no fucking idea how to dress for it. And Docker said, just trust us.

Speaker 18 I use them as fan. You know, we went to this party last night for Keith McNally.
He has a Manetta tavern here. What a great restaurant, by the way.
And he's lovely, let me just say.

Speaker 18 And it's, he's written this astonishing. It's the best book party I've been to because it was not about the book.
It was, but they read from the book. Richard E.

Speaker 18 Grant read sections from it and everything else.

Speaker 18 And it was great food. They said it was dinner adjacent, and then it was bigger than any dinner I've ever eaten.
And he's, you know, I don't know if you noticed, he had a stroke.

Speaker 18 We chatted about it quite a bit.

Speaker 18 He has much more issues around speaking and one of his sides of his body, but just a beautiful book that he's written. And they had music and food and everything else, really fun.

Speaker 18 But I wore like such sloppy clothes. And I said, Amanda's like, oh, I should dress up a little bit.
I said, no, no matter what you do, I will be more underdressed. And she goes, oh, okay.

Speaker 18 And felt better.

Speaker 18 I show up in like almost pajamas to parties now.

Speaker 19 Yeah, you can get away with that, though. It's sort of your brain.

Speaker 18 I know, I can't. I don't know.

Speaker 19 I don't show it up every once in a while, no?

Speaker 18 Not really. Not really.
I'm going to, I'm going to get my dockers and find them and wear them with you on something we do.

Speaker 19 I think, literally, I think that we should officially, I think if Vogue ever decides we've just fucking had it with this Met Gala bullshit and they want to jump to shark, they should invite us.

Speaker 19 They should absolutely invite us.

Speaker 19 We would literally put an end to that whole thing.

Speaker 18 We would put an end to it. Oh, my God.

Speaker 20 Anna Winter.

Speaker 19 Anna Winter, if you're listening, if you need a reason to retire.

Speaker 18 Do you know what? I'm going to somehow get that message to her that she should invite us. Maybe they'll do a tech one and then we'll show up as like a, we'll dress like Elon or something.

Speaker 19 Back to me.

Speaker 19 So in the 90s when I started Red Envelope, and because I had a shaved head, I was white, had outdoor plumbing and a pretty good gab, I could raise tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars to my crazy e-commerce startups.

Speaker 19 And I'd raise so much fucking money for Red Envelope. And we'd all, you know, I was the brand guy.
So I thought, oh, we got to build a brand. So my.

Speaker 19 college roommate, David Carey, who was the head of magazines, I think at Condonast,

Speaker 19 he'd always been just a lovely guy. We We were friends.

Speaker 19 But I used to fly to New York because I wanted to hang out in New York and spend overspend on Vanity Fair and Vogue magazine, these ads for red envelope.

Speaker 19 And literally the weapon was the coolest place on the planet was the Vogue cafeteria. Did you ever eat there?

Speaker 18 Oh, it's, oh, yeah.

Speaker 13 It was beautiful.

Speaker 19 And it was all these ridiculously beautiful women and hot gay men. And then Cy Newhouse and Anna Winter would be sitting in the corner.
And you'd walk in.

Speaker 19 I remember thinking, I got to move to New York. Yeah.
And I would buy these $120,000 a page ads. I don't even know if they worked or not, but I just wanted to go to lunch with my friend David Kerry.

Speaker 19 I probably spent seven or eight million bucks on other people's money just so I could get a bunch of people.

Speaker 18 And then you got to eat in the cafeteria. Well, that's nice.
That's a good thing.

Speaker 19 I had to come and ask cafeteria.

Speaker 18 Well, we've got a lot to get to today, so we got to move on, including Meta's creepy new AI app, Pete Hagseth, and Tulsi Gabbard's continuing sloppiness around like digital privacy and protection of their stuff and Disney's latest earnings.

Speaker 18 But first, tensions between India and Pakistan are escalating after India launched military strikes against targets in Pakistan this week in retaliation for a deadly attack in Kashmir.

Speaker 18 This conflict is happening at a pivotal economic moment. India is doing trade deals with the U.S.
and the UK, and Pakistan is emerging from a years-long financial crisis.

Speaker 18 You've also got China recently

Speaker 18 allied with Pakistan, recently calling Pakistan an ironclad friend and an all-weather strategic cooperative partner.

Speaker 18 For his part, President Trump has offered to help to defuse things, saying, if I can do anything to help, I'll be there.

Speaker 18 Of course, the Trumps themselves are doing some deal with Pakistan too, a personal deal. So there's that thrown in there.
Both countries are nuclear powers.

Speaker 18 In fact, interviewed Christiane Amanpour, so I'm going to channel whatever she says in my comments and pretend they're mine yesterday.

Speaker 18 She had a lot to, you know, it was an interesting interview, but this is sort of the day's conflict.

Speaker 19 Any thoughts? Well, yeah. Whenever there's a border skirmish with nuclear powers, you have to take it very seriously.

Speaker 19 And on a much less substantive level, India is a big trading partner with us on the economy. You could see oil prices and gold prices skyrocket with that kind of instability.

Speaker 19 But when two nuclear powers who border each other start, you know, arguing, it's very scary.

Speaker 19 And it can all be sort of reverse engineered to, of course, the West, specifically the UK, dividing up India into Pakistan in a very sloppy way that's created all sorts of religious and regional tensions and fights over Kashmir.

Speaker 19 And

Speaker 19 China will probably, or China is a very strong ally. They describe themselves as an iron cloud friend of Pakistan.
India has very strong relationships with Japan and Israel and the UAE.

Speaker 19 I just hope the adults show up and

Speaker 19 diffuse the tensions because typically these types of crazy conflicts are real exogenous shocks. It's not the shit you're worried about.
that gets you. It's the shit you're not thinking about.

Speaker 18 Well, you know, Christian was saying that it requires really good diplomacy, and and she's worried about the Trump administration because the U.S. has always been a key person here.

Speaker 18 And she said into a vacuum, something always flows. And so that would be China.
And, you know, there are these complications of the Trump's personal financial interests.

Speaker 18 in the countries and it just makes a big mess of it.

Speaker 18 And she was worried there wasn't someone who could, like, they'll send in that idiot Steve Witkoff or someone like that to deal with it rather than someone more competent.

Speaker 18 And if Stephen Miller becomes the national security, I mean, seriously, so over his skis

Speaker 18 and doesn't like brown people, from what I can tell.

Speaker 18 And so it's a real problem if you don't have the U.S. in real fighting shape among these people to sort of shut the whole thing down.

Speaker 18 And, you know, it's another one of these conflicts. The next one will be possibly Taiwan.

Speaker 18 And so there's going to be one conflict after the next as China starts to really flex its power, especially as its economy is suffering because of the tariffs.

Speaker 18 it won't expand elsewhere, I think. Anyway, we're not experts on this, but I would recommend listening to, Scott interviews lots of foreign experts, and I just did Christian, and so listen to them.

Speaker 18 But still troubling

Speaker 18 for the stock market, for the economies, and for stability in general with all the different conflicts around the world. I thought he was going to be the settle-it president, but I guess not.

Speaker 18 Open AI will abandon plans to place its AI business under control of a for-profit entity.

Speaker 18 Instead, it will transform its for-profit subsidiary into a public benefit corporation controlled by the nonprofit parent, which I think was, they were considering a lot of things.

Speaker 18 The decision was made after talking to civic leaders in AGs of California and Delaware who would need to sign off on the plan. Obviously, they didn't like what was, you know, the possibilities.

Speaker 18 Sam Altman, CEO Sam Altman, said the changes will still allow the company to access $30 billion investment from SoftBank.

Speaker 18 As a reminder, Elon Musk has been attempting to block the company's restructuring.

Speaker 18 His lawyer says the announcement changes nothing, which means he didn't really care about the nonprofit part if this is what they're doing.

Speaker 18 Obviously, he wants his vague because that's what Elon Musk wants. I talked to

Speaker 18 Sam and Brett Taylor about it. And I think, you know, I was like, this is a back walk.

Speaker 18 They were like, no, because we were considering lots of things. And then we got feedback and we made the decision and said that the Musk thing had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 18 And it was evidenced by the fact that Musk didn't pull the lawsuit after they did this. And they felt like they still had enough ability to, you know, to raise money.

Speaker 18 I think their issues, they've got to raise money money and at the same time, reward people.

Speaker 18 And then they have a lot of people feeling they should stay true to their original roots, which was a mission-driven company. So it probably

Speaker 18 will be a good thing for them to get this in their rearview mirror and then move on. But I don't know if you have any thoughts.

Speaker 19 So I'd love to speak to Pre-Purar or someone who's close to the issue, but my general take on First Blush is the following. And that is Elon Musk has absolutely catalyzed this.

Speaker 19 And that is, just as there's law fair, I I think this is what I would refer to as nomenclature fare.

Speaker 19 And that is the judge, a judge, the attorney general essentially told OpenAI that their proposed transition doesn't fit the strict criteria for transition from a non-profit to a for-profit.

Speaker 19 And so effectively what they've done is by saying, oh, no, just kidding, we're one of these ridiculous private benefit corporations that a bunch of VCs could virtue signal and say, I still want on the money, but I want to pretend I'm actually helping humanity.

Speaker 19 I think it's the most ridiculous corporate classification in history.

Speaker 19 They go back and say, no, we're a not-for-profit, but they're lifting the cap on when the for-profit is entitled to the profits of above $100 billion, which I think only three companies have ever achieved.

Speaker 19 So, this effectively, from a mechanical situation or the complexion of the company, the operations or the shareholder governance has absolutely no impact.

Speaker 19 But I think somewhat inoculates them from the kind of

Speaker 19 the white meat of Musk's accusations in his case. I think the lawyers came back and said, okay, fine.

Speaker 19 Tell Musk and his lawyers, oh, just kidding, you win. We're still

Speaker 19 a nonprofit, but it's not going to change anything we do practically.

Speaker 18 No, let me tell you something. They said the for-profit corporation board and the non-profit board will be the same people, right?

Speaker 18 And so, you know, it's usually this nonprofit has hegemony over the for-profit corporation now, but it's the same board.

Speaker 19 It's the same. It's the same.
Nothing changes here except OpenAI's lawyers can say, oh, we are a not-for-profit. He has no case.
That's how I read it.

Speaker 18 Yeah, except he didn't pull the case because he wants the board. Of course not.
He's not.

Speaker 18 He didn't do it to help anybody at all, helped himself to help himself or slow them down. That's what he did it for.
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, so we'll see.

Speaker 18 I think it'll give them, everyone else will back off and he will just continue because he thinks he's owed more.

Speaker 18 I think that's really at the heart of his case is he thinks he created it and funded it and deserves more money from it. When in fact, he walked away.
He walked away.

Speaker 19 He has seller's remorse.

Speaker 19 One of the biggest mistakes ever in terms of just pure wealth is he said, I'm out of here. And he said, he signed away the company, ironclad documents.
He's out.

Speaker 18 Which he did with Twitter member. He was going to buy it.
And then he did.

Speaker 19 My house in San Francisco is next to where Mark Zuckerberg moved. And I bought it for $760,000.

Speaker 19 And 24 months later, when I moved to New York so I could spend more time in the Condon S cafeteria, I sold it for $950,000. I thought it was the fucking greatest real estate investor in history.

Speaker 19 Kara, it is worth substantially more now.

Speaker 18 It is. I live in that neighborhood.
Okay.

Speaker 19 It's worth substantially more. This is absolutely no different in terms of legal veracity than if I went back and said, I want my house back.
I want my house back.

Speaker 18 I want the money. My house is back.

Speaker 19 I want my house back. You owe me.
It's gone up. I know I signed legal documents transferring ownership of this asset and private property laws are pretty detailed.

Speaker 19 But I've decided because I fucked up selling it that I want it back, or at least I want some money.

Speaker 18 He threw a fucking tizzy and lost money. And they're pulling way ahead.
I mean, the chat GPT is really, the numbers are really quite startling in terms of the usage.

Speaker 18 They're obviously spending money too. This is really, but it feels like they're really pulling ahead in that regard.
And they're going to get, they're going to get this.

Speaker 18 One of the things, someone was like, why is it so chaotic? I'm like, you were not around for Google and then they were fine. You know what I mean?

Speaker 18 Like, I think they're probably on a Google trajectory and not a Netscape trajectory.

Speaker 18 But Google was a fucking chaos monkey of a shithouse for a long, long time. And before they settled in and

Speaker 18 went. Anyway, before we move on, we're going to be listening to some predictions from listeners today, just so you know.

Speaker 18 We asked listeners to give them predictions because I'm trying to replace you quietly. So let's listen to the first one now because we're already on the topic.

Speaker 19 Hey, Karen, Scott, Matt Maher here from M7. And my prediction is on the AI arms race and which model will win in the long run.

Speaker 19 It's not going to be GPT, even even if it's the superior product, not Gemini, not claw, it will be Meta's Llama.

Speaker 19 It's the only model that is truly open source, which means it will be the technical layer of infrastructure developers and vibe coders can build upon.

Speaker 19 And oh yeah, they can flip a switch and connect your entire social graph through the decades of data they've collected on you.

Speaker 19 So open source plus social is, as Scott would say, the peanut butter and chocolate of AI models.

Speaker 18 That's a good argument. He's right.
I mean,

Speaker 18 when I interviewed AMD's CEO, Lisa Sue, she was sort of, everyone's sort of leaning into the open source model. They definitely are the second competitor.
And I think that's what OpenAI thinks.

Speaker 18 I think they think it's Gemini themselves and Lama. And Lama would be number two.
Scott?

Speaker 19 Yeah. So my

Speaker 19 view is that Meta is the AI company actually of 2025.

Speaker 19 They're the second largest purchaser of NVIDIA GPUs, just behind Microsoft. So they have the most.
processing power other than Microsoft.

Speaker 19 In addition, what is underappreciated is Reddit, which is an amazing company and the fifth or sixth most traffic site in America, generates 1.3 trillion tokens of data.

Speaker 19 And that's really the, you know, that's the, you could argue that's the rare resource area.

Speaker 19 It doesn't, it doesn't matter how much refining capability you have if you don't have the fossil fuel to put into it or the coal to put into the furnace. And so Reddit has 1.3 trillion tokens of data.

Speaker 19 And just to give you a sense for just how much data Meta produces, they have 183 trillion tokens of data. And I think they made the move.
And unfortunately,

Speaker 19 Mark Zuckerberg is as brilliant as he is sociopathic. And I think he decided, okay,

Speaker 19 the train has left the station around a for-consumer subscription model.

Speaker 19 So what we're going to do is we're going to make this open source and we're going to use this the same way we use WhatsApp as a bodyback for data to feed our other paid platforms.

Speaker 19 I think that Meta and Llama, and if you look at Llama, Llama is really frightening because it has, because it's open source and has absolutely, as far as I can tell, no guardrails.

Speaker 19 If you go to Llama and say, how to kill your husband slowly, it literally goes, well, what kitchen supplies do you have? How often is he in the house?

Speaker 18 I mean, it's Mark Zuckerberg, people. I get you.

Speaker 19 It's got no guardrails.

Speaker 19 And it'll start helping you do whatever it is you would like to do.

Speaker 18 Sounds about right.

Speaker 19 And he'll get massive traffic. I think he'll make it free.
And then he'll use all of that data such that I get served ads for, you know, for, you know, hemorrhoid cream at the exact right moment.

Speaker 19 I think Meta, I mean, four out of five people who aren't in China are on a Meta platform once a week. He has more data.
He's making huge visionary investments with the capital he has.

Speaker 18 He made the pivot from the metaverse quite smartly.

Speaker 19 I think this guy's right. And I think Meta is the AI company at 25.

Speaker 18 We like the thing, Matt. I see your point.
I'm just saying right now, OpenAI is in the lead, but you're right. They've got a lot of throughput.

Speaker 18 I suspect that OpenAI will get sold as one of them at some point, or maybe not now, that they're non-profitable.

Speaker 19 Well, just on a meta-level, though,

Speaker 19 a meta, a meta-meta level, I now believe that similar to

Speaker 19 jet transportation technology or the personal computer, I'm not convinced that any one company is going to be able to sequester trillions of dollars in shareholder value. I think the big winners.

Speaker 19 are going to be open source and the general public. I do think that AI is going to make everyone more productive or most electricity.

Speaker 18 Electricity, you're saying.

Speaker 19 100%.

Speaker 18 Electricity. Yeah.
That was a great one, Matt. Thank you.
That's really smart. And the fact that you're using Scott's phrases now is she's not that nice.

Speaker 19 She interrupts me all the time. Just saying I said that.

Speaker 18 I said that.

Speaker 18 Okay. I know you did.
And, Matt, we appreciate it. As we tape on Thursday, President Trump is set to announce a framework of a trade deal with the UK.

Speaker 18 Teasing the announcement on the true social Trump called many other deals will follow.

Speaker 18 And speaking of our allies, Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down for a meeting with President Trump at the White House this week.

Speaker 18 Trump was, of course, asked about Canada becoming the 51st state again. Let's listen.

Speaker 19 Mr. President,

Speaker 19 Mr. Prime Minister, I'd like to get your response to this too.
But Mr. President, you had said that Canada should become the 51st state.

Speaker 19 No, no. Well, I still believe that, but, you know, it takes two to tango, right?

Speaker 19 But no, I do. I mean, I believe it would be a massive tax cut for the Canadian citizens.

Speaker 19 You get free military, you get tremendous medical cares and other things.

Speaker 18 Medical cares. You get tremendous medical care in Canada.

Speaker 19 Canadians are dying for our medical care system so they can be more obese, depressed, and anxious and pay more. And pay twice, twice as much for their health care.

Speaker 19 And pay eight times what anyone else plays for pharmaceuticals.

Speaker 18 We don't have any cares about medical. Anyway, when Trump was asked about whether Carney could say anything to lift the tariffs on Canada, he said no.

Speaker 18 The president also told the room that Canada is a very special place to him and that he loves the country. Speaking of tariffs,

Speaker 18 this is an interesting thing. Internal documents obtained by the Washington Post show that the State Department pushed nations to clear hurdles for Starlink, huh?

Speaker 18 Leading to some, leading to some to believe there would be a tariff relief for following through. Totally by the books, as always, total grift.

Speaker 18 So what I want to just note some things. Matt Stoller, who's a who's

Speaker 18 sort of a person who deals with a lot of stuff like this, noted that this U.K. is hoping to get reduction on 25% tariffs the U.S.

Speaker 18 is levying, but the baseline 10% tariff will remain in place, officials say, in return, Britain is offering concessions on a digital tax it levies on big U.S. companies, big U.S.
tech companies.

Speaker 18 And so Stoller noted, so these trade deals are just cuts in tariffs in return for Google and Meta. Explain how this is an attempt at manufacturing renaissance by demanding consumer sacrifice.

Speaker 18 So let's go from there.

Speaker 18 First, the British thing, then Canadian, and I love Mark Carney. He's such a hunk.

Speaker 18 And the Starlink thing is exactly as I expected. Total pay-per-floor.

Speaker 19 Go ahead. I thought the more insightful and educational clip was how Mark Carney handled the question.

Speaker 19 And I think anyone who's in communications or anyone who handles does speech writing or generally just wants a lesson in how you push back forcefully, but in the most dignified way.

Speaker 19 And you don't antagonize a very sensitive person who's entirely about ego and not about stakeholder value, i.e., the president.

Speaker 19 Mark Carney's comments were just such a masterclass in terms of tone of what he said. And he said, well, you know, because he gave him an opening.

Speaker 19 Trump said, well, I think of it as a real estate deal. And you look at the big, beautiful nation of Canada.

Speaker 19 Let's also play this other clip, which demonstrates the elegant way, forcefully dignified way, that Mark Carney dealt with Trump and his ridiculous comments.

Speaker 22 And having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months,

Speaker 22 it's not for sale, won't be for sale ever.

Speaker 22 But the opportunity is in in the partnership and uh and and what we can build together and we have done that in the past

Speaker 19 and i thought that was such an insightful way to frame it and he said and the owners the owners have told me that uh this piece of real estate is not for sale and that is such an elegant and non-combative way of saying yeah go yourself yourself and then of course trump goes never say never

Speaker 18 Like, so that's he did a great job. I thought Carney was quite a spectacular.
He seemed erudite and approachable at the same time.

Speaker 18 So go to the tariffs, because I do think this is like, they're all like really not tariff deals.

Speaker 18 This seems like a bunch of shakedowns all over the world, including the Starlink thing, which is exactly what I expected and remains horrifying.

Speaker 19 This is a kleptocracy is you figure out a way to ascertain or usurp or attain power, and then you use that power to make a small group of people very rich who have proximity to you who then give you a VIG and everybody else gets less wealthy.

Speaker 19 And that is what is happening across the entire country as we have an individual that is acting like a mob boss who monetizes the United States and the White House. And this is exactly that.

Speaker 19 This is he has proximity to big tech firms. He wants, A, he thinks of them as iconic.
They give him a lot of money. He calls them and they take their

Speaker 19 tariff pricing down. He calls them and they say, oh, we're now in the business of quote-unquote free moderation.
And we call Trump a badass and we give a million dollars to his inauguration. And,

Speaker 19 okay, so we're going to give them a lead over every other tech or media firm in exchange such that we can call it victory. And small and medium-sized media firms are shit out of luck.

Speaker 19 It's like, okay, they don't get this special advantage. They don't get this relief.
And he can claim victory by, and this.

Speaker 19 The Starlink thing is literally like, okay, this guy put a quarter of a billion dollars into my campaign. And so I am going to force countries.
I'm going to, I mean,

Speaker 19 Buffett said it.

Speaker 18 Little countries, too.

Speaker 19 These types of trade wars are a form where tariffs are a form of warfare. So the U.S.
is threatening war in exchange.

Speaker 19 You have to give sweetheart deals, non-competitive advantage to the companies owned by the guy that gave me a quarter of a billion dollars to my campaign. He's literally, and who does that hurt?

Speaker 19 It hurts everyone. We're paying unfair taxes, unfair prices.

Speaker 19 And the small and medium-sized businesses in this country who create two-thirds of our jobs and don't have lobbyists and don't can't get on the lunch calendar of the president and can't donate to his campaign or aren't going to, they lose.

Speaker 19 Essentially,

Speaker 19 look at the biggest kleptocracies in the world, whether Poland was emerging into a kleptocracy, Russia has been a kleptocracy for a long time.

Speaker 19 There are some of the wealthiest people over the last 30 years have been

Speaker 19 generated in Russia. Meanwhile, there's potholes in Moscow.
Senator Warren summarized it perfectly, and that is she said, okay, they're getting rich. You're losing your health care.

Speaker 19 That perfectly describes what happens in a kleptocracy. And this is a kleptocracy.
If they were to say, fine, no tariffs across,

Speaker 19 you have to drop your tariffs on all of our media or all of our tech companies and have a systemic law, that's fine. But when the president starts picking winners and losers,

Speaker 19 effectively everyone loses.

Speaker 18 Yeah, because he loves to be like, I make a deal, I make a deal, but it's always in the interest. The Starling think was amazing.

Speaker 18 Maybe it's the best one, but these countries shouldn't be forced into if you only take our, you know, if you take our salami, you know, you'll, you'll get what you want.

Speaker 18 You won't be like beat up kind of thing. And that's what it feels like, everything.
And of course, it's Starlink.

Speaker 18 And when there's other choices that they could make with European satellite, whatever it matters, that may be their choice in the end, but they don't get the choice of the choice.

Speaker 18 And it's, it's, what the words thing is, it's a lot of small countries, right? A lot of small African countries. It's not just one.

Speaker 18 The post noted, it was noted that it was like Vietnam was in there. I forget the Congo may have been in there.
But, and these are not all the ones ones on the list.

Speaker 18 So this is a policy of the government to sell Starlink. Now, our government does go around and sell our companies, you know, for decades, you know, use Lockheed, use Boeing, whatever.

Speaker 18 But nothing this explicit with someone so close to the president, right? In terms of like, let me get you a deal and giving them unfair advantage.

Speaker 19 Our trade representatives or our head of our commerce secretary will take a group of iconic American companies, but they will also take a representative for small businesses.

Speaker 19 And they will say, okay, we're here with Boeing, Procter ⁇ Gamble, Estee Lauder, Northface, and trade representatives for small and medium-sized businesses and manufacturers.

Speaker 19 And we're here and we go to China and we try and cut a deal and we speak with one voice and talk about

Speaker 19 great American companies. But they don't go over and say, oh, by the way,

Speaker 19 Exxon gave me a shit ton of money. I need you to build an Exxon field here.

Speaker 19 Then everyone in oil and gas but Exxon loses. And what happens is companies start allocating more and more money to the kleptocrat, which their consumers pay for.

Speaker 19 And the companies, it creates just an incentive system that's just a downward spiral.

Speaker 19 And it's a similar incentive system right now, unfortunately, because of Citizens United around companies allocating more and more capital to lobby.

Speaker 18 It's wasting, it's a waste of money. Lobbying is a waste of money.
100%. And then the Trump boys go around the world doing either you, you were on Anderson Cooper, or I think it was last night.

Speaker 18 The crypto stuff, the real estate stuff, they're building a big building in Saudi Arabia, one in all over the Mideast, and just getting like, they're just coming with like a bag of money.

Speaker 18 Like they feel like mob people, like, here, put the money in the bag, and then we'll do whatever you want. Anyway, it's grotesque, it really is.

Speaker 18 Anyway, Scott, and these trade deals, let's watch, let's take them apart very carefully, but most of them are going to be in this genre, giving a favor to someone and not bringing manufacturing back to the U.S.

Speaker 18 That was never the goal. That was a giant lie they were telling.

Speaker 18 And people did these sort of virtue signalings of things they were already investing in to pretend that they were bringing manufacturing back to the U.S.

Speaker 18 So, regular workers are probably not going to benefit very much, as they didn't in the first Trump administration.

Speaker 18 We made all those promises, none of which came to fruition about manufacturing facilities. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.
When we come back, Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Hegg say password fails.

Speaker 18 What a surprise!

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Speaker 18 Scott, we're back. Kelsey Gabbard, the director of national intelligence,

Speaker 18 that's working hard, that word right there, those two words, reportedly has a history of not following best practices when it comes to cybersecurity.

Speaker 18 Gabbard used the same easily cracked password across multiple accounts. I'm surprised it wasn't one, two, three, four.

Speaker 18 For years, according to Wired, the password showed up in multiple data breaches and was linked to her Gmail Dropbox and LinkedIn accounts.

Speaker 18 And it was apparently some nickname she had and some strange group she belonged to.

Speaker 18 During the time the breaches occurred, Gabbard was serving in Congress and sitting on the intelligence-related committees with access to sensitive national security information.

Speaker 18 Then again, not to hold my beer, a lot of beers.

Speaker 18 Defense Secretary Pete Hegg says also had passwords exposed in multiple data breaches, including the one that was reused across personal email accounts, according to the New York Times.

Speaker 18 I mean, this is like worse than my mother, these two.

Speaker 18 And we also learned that he used Signal, Pete Hegg says, even more for Pentagon business, engaging at least a dozen separate chats, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Speaker 18 I mean, I've never seen more promiscuous people when it comes to bad data practices. practices.
And talk about your concerns about this.

Speaker 18 It doesn't like these people do not know how to keep classified information safe

Speaker 18 and even their own personal information at the same time.

Speaker 19 Well, you know what happens when Pete Hegseth takes Viagra.

Speaker 18 What?

Speaker 19 He grows taller, Kara. He grows taller.

Speaker 18 Look,

Speaker 19 when we send our young, our daughters and our sons to serve in uniform, they leave their families for months at a time.

Speaker 19 They forego economic opportunity and they put themselves in harm's way and oftentimes come back severely traumatized because

Speaker 19 they face such intense and incredibly stressful situations.

Speaker 19 And in exchange for that, we have unprecedented ability to deliver violence all over the world that has created prosperity and security for Americans for 250 years. And the reason why the U.S.

Speaker 19 military is the most impressive organization in the history of the West is because from top to bottom, people take it very seriously.

Speaker 19 And that is, they appreciate, even if you're anti-war, anti-military, if you're in a position to help and protect our men in uniform, you do it. And you don't do anything,

Speaker 19 you know, you don't do anything to threaten their safety. And this is especially true.

Speaker 19 It is very hard to maintain morale if anyone within the organization, whether it's the CIA case officers on the ground feeding them bad information, whether it's the person repairing your plane, trusting they're literally sweating all night that there's not going to be a mechanical failure.

Speaker 19 And the idea that the Defense Secretary is being reckless with classified information and putting them in harm's, potentially in harm's way, and you may not even know how this manifests.

Speaker 19 Let's, you know, who should comment on this? Let's use, let's get Pete Hegseth's words on this.

Speaker 19 In 2016, he said the following when referencing Hillary Clinton storing confidential information on an email server.

Speaker 19 How damaging is it to your ability to recruit or build allies with others when they are worried that our leaders may be exposing them because of their gross negligence, of their recklessness in handling information?

Speaker 19 And he then went on to say,

Speaker 19 the people we rely on to do dangerous and difficult things for us rely on one thing from us, that we will not reveal their identity, that we will not be reckless with the dangerous things that they're doing for us.

Speaker 19 That's the national security implications of a private server that's unsecured. I mean, this guy, he literally defines hypocrisy.
And

Speaker 19 then he went on to say, if at the very top there's no accountability, then there's two tiers of justice, said Hackseth.

Speaker 19 Yeah, yeah, Pete, Secretary Hackseth, there appears to be two tiers of justice here.

Speaker 19 And this is,

Speaker 19 you know, these,

Speaker 19 the people in the military have one thing in common. They all,

Speaker 19 the most patriotic people in America are our veterans. And anyone who has kids knows why.
When you make this type of investment and sacrifice in something, you become invested in its success.

Speaker 19 And that's one of the reasons I think we need mandatory national service. This guy does not appear to be invested in our success by virtue of the fact he's just so fucking reckless.

Speaker 18 And then all the planes falling off of aircraft. I've never heard of this.
Like, what in the world is happening? All this sloppiness.

Speaker 19 They'll blame it on Bernie Sanders. They'll blame it on someone.

Speaker 18 I've never heard of blame. Like, when's the last time that was a story? And now it's like a double story.
Like, these people are sloppy in every single aspect of their lives. Anyway, whatever.

Speaker 18 There'll be more of it and we'll find out. I mean, I'm sure our rivals are just loving it.

Speaker 19 And they're really kind of this, this kid named this RO2C kid who couldn't go to college unless it had been for RO2C, Martin Ortiz,

Speaker 19 my fraternity brother. This guy was so irresponsible,

Speaker 19 so reckless, so crazy, right? I mean, we were literally, you know, we didn't shy away from crazy behavior in the fraternity. Everyone was scared of this guy.

Speaker 19 He would come to my apartment because he lived far away from his base, and he would sleep in our room on the floor, and he would wake up at 3.45 in the fucking morning after drinking all night.

Speaker 19 So he could be a half an hour early at his base. Because he knew when it came to, when he came to, when it came to his military service, there was no margin of error, period, no margin of error.

Speaker 19 And this is a guy who couldn't, who couldn't get a D in in basic English and couldn't figure out a way to rally himself to write a paper or whatever.

Speaker 19 But when it came to the commitment to the armed services, the culture they have created is, you have to be near perfect. Yep.

Speaker 18 And P. Tag Seth is not.
Anyway, whatever. It's going to be a constant disappointment until they dump this guy.
And he'll probably get dumped because he dumps planes off of.

Speaker 18 aircraft carriers that cost $60 million each, the money that we're supposed to be saving.

Speaker 18 Anyway, the Gates Foundation is marking its 25th anniversary with a major announcement that will officially wind down operations and close its doors permanently in 2045, decades earlier than originally planned.

Speaker 18 In the meantime, Bill Gates has committed over $200 billion in aid over the next 20 years, astonishing number, with a focus on ending preventable deaths, eradicating infectious diseases, and lifting millions out of poverty.

Speaker 18 The announcement comes as the U.S. foreign and foreign aid faces growing political pressures.
They're cutting it everywhere. Trump administration is.

Speaker 18 Gates has been really, has got to hair up his ass about this for sure, because in an interview, the New York Times, Gates pulled no punches about recent cuts in U.S.

Speaker 18 aid, putting the onus on Elon Musk, saying

Speaker 18 he put it in the wood chipper because

Speaker 18 he didn't go to a party that weekend. Gates went on to say, the world's richest man has been involved in the deaths of the world's poorest children.
I was like, he's been a little bit more

Speaker 18 like

Speaker 18 Trump positive just because he wanted to sort of get the aid back in some way. But now he's like, fuck it.
Like, I don't care.

Speaker 18 This is is what's going on here so uh the fact that the the one of the other world's richest men is spending 200 billion dollars of his money in stuff that the u.s government should be doing um and the fact that he's calling on elon i thought it was good for gates good for gates because i was worried he was sort of modulating himself in a way that i know he doesn't think so what do you think about this There's a popular saying that a society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.

Speaker 19 And Elon Musk is cutting down these trees. And America has been planting trees, the shade of which we will never sit under.

Speaker 19 George Bush, with, I think it was Pepfar, he saved tens of millions of people by making a huge investment and rallying really competent people to try and distribute

Speaker 19 cocktail, AIDS cocktail drugs to people in Africa.

Speaker 19 That had no impact on me. Other than it was nice that we had the ability to do it and we used our scale and our strength and our expertise and our science and our universities to do that.

Speaker 19 Elon Musk is doing the opposite. He's cutting down the trees, the shade of which he will never sit under because his attitude is, if it's not providing me with shade, I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 19 And I'll call it, I'll say that I'm saving money for the government.

Speaker 18 In order to go to Mars. Mars is what we really need to do.
So we make humanity.

Speaker 19 There are certain investments where if you make a small amount of investment, and $75 million is not a lot when you look at the world's issues, you can allocate that capital to places of such need that a little bit of money has enormous ROI.

Speaker 18 Well, this is $200 billion, Scott, for Gates.

Speaker 19 No, I'm talking about USAID, $75 billion.

Speaker 19 My point is, I think Gates, who's one of the most brilliant people and also, I think later in life, as you would hope from a man, really developed a great deal of empathy.

Speaker 19 He thought, okay, what could I do with my quarter of a trillion dollars in wealth? I could create other great companies. I could build the biggest VC firm in the world.

Speaker 19 I could decide who gets to be president or who doesn't. And he said, at the margin of the Efficient Frontier, I can save tens of millions of lives because one small pill

Speaker 19 that

Speaker 19 staves off or prevents a case of malaria is not that expensive in certain regions of the world.

Speaker 18 Or netting or whatever. He was doing all kinds of different things.
Toilets. He spent a bunch of money on toilets.

Speaker 19 He's like, it's not romantic, but if I can bring safe, potable water and sanitation to certain regions, I will literally save millions of children who otherwise would have died of dysentery.

Speaker 18 He's a complex guy and not always, listen, he was a very difficult person. I was there when he was younger and kind of a jerk.
He was a jerk.

Speaker 18 And all kinds of stuff he's done that is not great in lots of ways. At the same time, the transformation of this person into this kind of philanthropy is really something to see.

Speaker 18 And the fact that, listen, it's no small risk for him to call out Musk, who has been, by the way, attacking him relentlessly with fake stuff around vaccines.

Speaker 18 Musk was one of, and Twitter has been the purveyor of this nonsense that Gates is putting chips inside of people's heads, all kinds of like through the vaccine. And

Speaker 18 the fact that this, Musk, all he does is make trouble for this guy and insult him and

Speaker 18 create all kinds of dangerous misinformation about him. And then I'm glad he did this.
I'm glad he said it because it's what he thinks.

Speaker 19 Just real quick,

Speaker 19 one of the most wonderful things about America as a society is we have created a complexion or a gestalt in our society where typically as you become more powerful, there's an onus and an environment that encourages you to evolve, to become kinder.

Speaker 19 Bill Gates has become kinder. I think guys like Mark Benioff and Brian Chesky and even, you know, I interviewed Melinda French Gates.

Speaker 19 You can tell as they've gotten more powerful, they really take it very seriously that I need to evolve as a person. I need to become kinder.

Speaker 19 The worst thing that can happen in a society is where you create a gestalt that, okay, once I become president or once I become the wealthiest man in the world, I digress.

Speaker 19 I become an even bigger asshole. I become even more damaging to the world.
And it's not an, I got to think quite frankly, and this is more of a philosophical question.

Speaker 19 What is it about our society where we are evolving this new species of man in the United States, where as they become more powerful, even the robber barons who were not nice people, once they achieved a certain level of power, they did flip the switch and think, How can I build big projects and big universities that would help society?

Speaker 19 And these guys are not thinking that way.

Speaker 18 Only someone had a book coming out in November that discussed what kind of men we should be. Go on.

Speaker 19 It's more a discussion of what kind of man you shouldn't be.

Speaker 18 It's a sort of telling it. Anyway, we've got to go on a quick break.
When we come back, we'll talk about Disney and Uber's latest earnings. But good for you, Bill Gates.
Good for you.

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Speaker 18 Scott, we're back. Disney is out with its latest earnings.
I'd love to hear what you think about this.

Speaker 18 The company reported $23 billion in revenue, up 7% from a year ago, and $3.2 billion in net income. A big turnaround from the net loss of $20 million last year.

Speaker 18 These numbers were fueled by higher streaming profit. That seems to be doing well.
Good bet by Bob Iger. Domestic theme parks and home video sales of Moana 2.

Speaker 18 I can tell you, I've watched it 109,000 times. And speaking of theme parks, Disney has also announced plans for a new park in Abu Dhabi.
That makes sense. Its seventh theme park resort.

Speaker 18 I thought they had one there. I don't know why.
Disney is often seen as a bellwether for consumer confidence.

Speaker 18 These numbers tell you consumers aren't too worried, or is it just another Commvorest from earnings report?

Speaker 18 I'm going to add in Uber's earnings too. The company reported $11.5 billion in revenue, up 14% year-over-year.

Speaker 18 Not a huge company, but a good solid revenue, but slightly below Wall Street's expectations. Total bookings grew 14% to $42 billion.
That's the amount. And then they have to take out blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 18 They have to pay drivers, et cetera. Uber has also just announced a joint venture with Chinese self-driving car company Pony AI to roll out robo-taxis in Middle Eastern markets.

Speaker 18 It looks like Uber is becoming the partner for all these things like Waymo and what Pony AI is doing around the world. So I'd love to hear

Speaker 18 what you think about it. And then we have another listener prediction around earnings.
But first, Disney and then Uber.

Speaker 19 Well, Uber just sort of barely missed expectations. I would argue they met expectations.

Speaker 19 And what's interesting about Uber is their relationship with all the, they're striking up with all these different autonomous driving companies. It feels like there's an old Hemingway line.

Speaker 19 How did you go bankrupt? Gradually, then suddenly is the answer. It feels like the autonomous wars.

Speaker 19 have been slow and now it feels like it's about we're on the eve of war among uh autonomous whether it's uber doing deals waymo at some point muscle enter it feels like autonomous waymo and uber have a deal like because they're the reservation system.

Speaker 18 Like, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 18 I've always thought Uber was the reservation system for someone.

Speaker 19 And they don't cost you the consumer, and

Speaker 19 you're used to just booking a car on them. But

Speaker 19 that's what I took away from the Uber earnings, but I didn't think they were that interesting.

Speaker 19 Really, the more interesting one was the surprise of the upside from Disney, and that is their stock popped 10%. It's at, after really touching kind of 10-year lows, revenue up 7%.

Speaker 19 The Disney Plus

Speaker 19 not only raised prices, but grew their subscriber base, which a lot of us weren't expecting. Hulu added over 1 million subscribers.

Speaker 19 But the real story here is that I think strategically they're remaining very smart because what are they doing?

Speaker 19 They're leaning into their core advantage and point of differentiation, and that's its parks business.

Speaker 19 Parks was mentioned five times more in this earnings call than the prior quarters call because they realized that Netflix isn't opening a park.

Speaker 19 Alpha, Meta can, it takes 10 years, 20 years maybe to build a park like this.

Speaker 18 Comcast is their competitor.

Speaker 19 Their cruise line is killing it.

Speaker 19 And they also realize, quite frankly, they're probably always going to be a distant two or three, maybe, if they're lucky in streaming, but they can be number one and command unfair margins in their parks unit.

Speaker 19 And their parks unit is just killing it. And to Bob Iger's credit,

Speaker 19 this was the strongest earnings call Disney has had in a long time. And that is, okay, the streaming is no longer a sinkhole of capital.

Speaker 19 And we are, we, our parks business, which is truly differentiated and singular, is killing it.

Speaker 18 So good, good for them. Yeah, I think he's, and then we'll see who he takes over, but he, he's, you know, he's a pro.
This man is a pro.

Speaker 18 Okay, Scott, while we're on the topic of earnings, let's hear from another prediction from a listener. This one about the economy.
Let's play it. By the way, our listeners are so smart.

Speaker 19 Hi, Kara and Scott. This is Rich, an American living in Germany since 2016.
My prediction is that the U.S. falls into a recession, possibly even worse than 2008.

Speaker 19 On the consumer side, tariffs push prices even higher after years of inflation, crushing demands. Businesses cut jobs even more than they are already due to tariffs and AI.

Speaker 19 Then on the credit side, investors demand higher yields after we voluntarily drive our economy off a cliff. Unlike 2008, though, the Fed can't just cut rates in a stagflationary environment.

Speaker 19 We're stuck in a vicious cycle, or Teuflskreis, as Karen knows.

Speaker 18 Teuferskreis.

Speaker 18 Scott, this is, this is, you know, most people can't tell if we're going to run into this recessionary environment.

Speaker 18 It certainly feels like that's what we're being set up for, unless he does something. I mean, this is

Speaker 18 self-inflicted, of course. Well,

Speaker 19 there's sort of the known unknowns and then the unknown unknowns. And it's usually the unknown unknowns that get you.

Speaker 19 But in terms of the known unknowns, the fulcrum here about whether we probably go into a recession or worse stagflation is this nonsense around tariffs and what happens.

Speaker 19 If anything resembling the proposed tariffs actually sticks, you're going to see an increase in inflation, an increase in interest rates, and a decline in the economy.

Speaker 19 The word for that that most young people don't know is stagflation.

Speaker 19 And when you have stagflation, when the economy is shrinking, even as interest rates go up, which is the worst of that's, you know, that's nitro and glycerin for an economy, you have to sacrifice jobs and massively increase interest rates because basically typically what the Fed says is we will opt for lower or higher unemployment versus higher inflation.

Speaker 19 That's the real danger. In my opinion, if we go into recession,

Speaker 19 that's something that's supposed to happen every seven years. It brings down prices.

Speaker 19 Quite frankly, it gives young people over the medium term a little bit of an opportunity to buy into assets at a lower price. I don't think recession is the worst thing that could happen to us.

Speaker 19 If you look at the Fed's notes or Chairman Powell's notes yesterday, he essentially said, we're in a bit of a vibe session.

Speaker 19 And Kyla Scanlon, who I love, this young woman who does a ton of great work on economics, essentially, consumer confidence is at a low since COVID. The uncertainty index is at a high since the 80s.

Speaker 19 But if you look at the underlying data, if you look at employment, if you look at retail sales, if you look at spending, quite frankly, the economy still looks pretty strong right now.

Speaker 19 And so he kept interest rates flat. So this is all about in the short term, unless, you know, if, look, if there's a nuclear detonation on the Indian-Pakistani border, all bets are off, right?

Speaker 19 But in terms of where we are economically right now, the fulcrum or the arbiter will be just how fucking insane, how down crazy road we travel with these with these tariffs. So we'll see.

Speaker 19 But the thing I'm most scared of is not a recession. I actually think that recessions, I think we're due for not an extended recession.

Speaker 19 Housing prices and stock prices need to come down such that people like you and me, Kara, maybe transfer a little bit of our wealth and create some opportunity for younger people who want to buy their own homes and buy their own stocks.

Speaker 19 I don't think that'd be the worst thing in the world. What would be nearly the worst thing for the economy would be a spike in interest rates as the economy goes down.

Speaker 19 And the thing that what's so is any economist under the age of 50 doesn't even know the word stagflation. They don't even think it can happen.
It can happen. It happened in the 70s.

Speaker 18 I think a horror movie stagflation. I feel like Beset's got the upper hand here, Beset and Rubio, over the crazies, I think, I suspect, a little bit more.
It's the tenure.

Speaker 19 It's the bond. If the bond market starts spiking, they all freak out.

Speaker 18 They all freak out. You're right.
But I'm saying with the terror, with having to do with Trump's crazy, he seems a little more willing to deal besides himself, self-deal.

Speaker 18 in any case, um, we'll see. We'll see.
Great, great, thank you so much, Rich. That was really great.
Um,

Speaker 18 very quickly, the new Meta AI app is creepy, according to a detailed account in the Washington Post. Speaking of these AI stuff that were meta, probably will dominate in many ways.

Speaker 18 The app assures personalized AI and delivers via personal information from Facebook and Instagram, and memory files where details about users are kept.

Speaker 18 Jeffrey Fowler, who wrote the post, the article, found his memory file contained interests like natural fertility techniques, divorce, and payday loans.

Speaker 18 Also feeds conversations back about Meta's AI training system without an option to opt out. I like, I know you're saying they're going to dominate.

Speaker 18 There is the thing I worry about, you always say, oh, I loaded this up, I loaded that up.

Speaker 18 And I'm always like, I'm not loading my stuff up, you know, and you can pay a little more to Chat GPT so they don't train on your data and they allegedly protect it.

Speaker 18 I would not load up like, what I ate for lunch yesterday to Meta. I have to say, I mean, except for Instagram and threads, which I use largely for marketing,

Speaker 18 I got to say, I'm not loading a damn thing up to this person because of the way it was used and the lack of any guardrails.

Speaker 18 I would never use their AI app. I don't know how you feel about it, but you're very, you're much more promiscuous in loading up your information.

Speaker 19 Yeah, my attitude is violate my privacy as long as I can see that my QX60 is one minute away. I could just get high.
I could just eat edibles and order Ubers and watch how close my car is.

Speaker 19 I find it fucking fascinating. I'm like, why is he making a a right turn on broom?

Speaker 18 He doesn't know where he's going.

Speaker 18 I find that shit fascinating.

Speaker 19 And occasionally, I have a moment. I'm like, how do they know? Like, I, you know, how do they know I have prostatitis? How are they knowing? I mean, I find this shit fascinating.

Speaker 18 Mine is food porn, like people making food, tool tips, tip, like little hacks, hardware hacks, and Mission Impossible. Mission Impossible Dockers, which is coming out May 23rd.

Speaker 18 And I'm going by myself. Just so everybody knows, do not speak to me on May 23rd.
I'm going to see the final reckoning and I'm going to probably see it twice. But go ahead, Scott.

Speaker 18 So, so what do you think about this, this, this app? Are you going to use it? You probably will.

Speaker 19 Look, I am, I do a talk. I was just in Hamburg, Germany, and I do a talk on everyone want everyone wanted to know, had two, you know, questions really around two topics in the Q ⁇ A.

Speaker 19 What the fuck is going on in America? And they want to know about AI.

Speaker 19 And I've said,

Speaker 19 I'm an AI optimist for the most part. I don't think it's going to turn on us.
I don't see any reason why AI can't be used to create defensive measures against offensive measures.

Speaker 19 I don't think it's ever going to become sentient. I think in the short run, it'll destroy jobs.

Speaker 19 But like every other technology, it'll create, in my opinion, more jobs than it destroys over the medium and the long term. The biggest threat of AI is that it's going to speedball loneliness.

Speaker 19 And that is, I'm frustrated.

Speaker 19 I don't have friends. I can't figure out the social pecking order.

Speaker 19 I am really upset. I don't have a girlfriend.
So I have this incredible AI girlfriend that's a mix of porn. And maybe I even have an AI robot slash sex doll.

Speaker 19 And I never develop the skills or take the risk to establish a romantic relationship. And this is the fear.

Speaker 19 This is what young men have fighting against them is they have the deepest pocketed, most talented people in the world trying to convince them they can have a reasonable facsimile of life with no human contact.

Speaker 19 You need the community.

Speaker 18 So you're not concerned with loading yourself, which is my question.

Speaker 19 Well, okay, it's too late for me. And not only that, quite frankly, I have economic security and people who love me unconditionally.
So I'm there. I'm at the promised land.

Speaker 19 What I'm worried about is young men who are struggling to find a connection to school, to work, or to other people, and get a reasonable facsimile of that DOPA hit that you get from a relationship from Reddit, Discord.

Speaker 19 porn, Robinhood. Oh, I'm not gambling.
I'm investing. And they spend all of their time in their basement, never going through the hardship of trying to make relationships work.

Speaker 18 Let me say, we have to move on, but Scott, Scott will be everybody's friend, next friend. Just so you know, Scott is everybody's friend.
I'm very unfriendly, but Scott will be everybody's friend.

Speaker 18 Okay,

Speaker 18 I'm not using that app. That's all I'm saying.
All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions, including one more listener prediction.

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Speaker 18 Scott, we're back. We're going to do a prediction now, Scott.
I'm going to do a very brief one. They're giving out Golden Globes for Best Podcast next year.

Speaker 18 I think we need to win, even though we're not in the top 20. You have to be in the top 25 to be in it.

Speaker 18 We have to get to the top 55. The top 25 most listened? Yes, apparently.
Some

Speaker 18 dumb crisis.

Speaker 19 Crazy right-wingers that are in the top 25.

Speaker 18 I know that, exactly. So we need to, we need to log in.

Speaker 19 What about the top 25 revenue? Because the thing is, the people who listen to those people don't have any money unless they're like looking for dental implants or like trucker hats.

Speaker 19 What about the top 25 in terms of revenue?

Speaker 18 So we need to kiss up to the Golden Globe people, all those foreign presidents.

Speaker 19 Let's threaten to tariff them. Let's threaten to tariff award ceremonies.

Speaker 18 We want to come. We are so much fun at a party.

Speaker 18 We would be so good at a Golden Globe. We will drink.
We will cause problems, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 19 So much is doing a lot of work there, but okay.

Speaker 18 You fall asleep on the couch.

Speaker 19 Everyone's wondering who the nine-year-old boy who is asleep on the couch. And everyone's like, who's the guy just at the bar who won't leave?

Speaker 18 That's correct.

Speaker 18 And as I said, I will be at Mission Impossible. One thing I will, I'm going to do a quick prediction.
I was talking to the people at Aurora, which is the self-driving truck.

Speaker 18 Everyone's focused on self-driving cars, but these driverless runs of trucks, they're now going on every day between Dallas and Houston.

Speaker 18 I just think that's something that isn't focused in on. They hauled pastries.
The first driver was hauled transported pastries. This is an area nobody's paying attention to.

Speaker 18 I think that is the real money is that kind of stuff because that's where it's going to be, that's where we really do need these

Speaker 18 driverless things going on.

Speaker 18 And I'm excited by the driverless cars in cities. I am personally, but I think that's where the big money is going to be.
That's where you should be focusing in on if you're interested in the sector.

Speaker 18 All right, Scott, make a prediction.

Speaker 19 This first 100 days of the Trump administration, mostly using the vehicle of the Trump coin, will go down in history is the greatest grift in the history of our economy in terms of the amount of money stolen and the size of it over the shortest period.

Speaker 19 Just some data here.

Speaker 19 So Trump-affiliated entities have made at least $300 million. This is distinct to the value of his stake in Trump coin and trading fees.

Speaker 19 The Trump family's net worth has increased by $3 billion or $1 billion a month since

Speaker 19 he took office. Just some timeline.
The Trump coin launched on a Friday night under cover of dark with all the news about the inauguration. By 3 a.m.
on Sunday, it was valued at more than $70 billion.

Speaker 19 And there were a small number of coins,

Speaker 19 a small number of investors who made large investments on a Friday. Maybe they got a tip or something.

Speaker 19 They made tens, if not hundreds of millions. And then over the course of the next couple of weeks, about 800,000 smaller investors lost billions.

Speaker 19 The Melania coin, two dozen traders made almost $100 million the weekend it came out, right? So one person invested 64 seconds before the project was publicly announced.

Speaker 19 Within 24 hours had made $40 million. But since then, Melania has lost 96% of its value.
Sure has.

Speaker 19 And this market manipulation, this what would technically be called insider trading by the SEC, we'll never know because on April 8th, Trump's deputy attorney general ordered the DOJ's crypto fraud investigation arm to disband.

Speaker 19 The next day,

Speaker 19 the next day on April 9th, the same day that Treasury Secretary Scott Besant affirmed that it was Main Street's turn to get wealthy, Trump posted on Truth Social, this is a great time to buy Donald Trump media at 9.37 a.m.

Speaker 19 Between 1 and 1.10 p.m., there was a huge increase in bullish zero-day

Speaker 19 S ⁇ P 500 call options. And then just eight minutes later, Trump announced a 90-day pause on all of his tariffs and the market soared almost 10%, one of the biggest one-day gains in history.

Speaker 19 So someone knew what was going on. Of course they do.

Speaker 18 He calls them.

Speaker 19 That's called insider trading. The market gained $4 trillion while Trump media closed up 23%.
Trump's 53% ownership stake in the company increased his net worth by $415

Speaker 19 million. On April 23rd, Trump announced that the top holders of the Trump coin would win an exclusive dinner with him and the coin surge over 60%.

Speaker 19 A small group of investors have generated massive returns. Just 58 wallets made more than 10 million apiece, totaling approximately 1.1 billion in gains.

Speaker 19 Meanwhile, 800,000 wallets of mostly smaller holders have lost money on their Trump coin. And this isn't just a vessel for corruption.
It's an open invitation for foreign manipulations.

Speaker 19 Three-quarters of the token value held among the top 220 wallets are believed to be held by foreign owners.

Speaker 19 So if he's hosting a dinner

Speaker 19 for his Trump pack and it costs a million and a half dollars, and say you're hungry and you want to get rid of these tariffs, don't you pay someone, have someone a proxy go, spend the million and a half bucks and go, oh, just FYI, let the president know as a gift to him, we're going to buy.

Speaker 19 $50 million in Trump coin this week, which will increase the value somewhere between half a billion and a billion, which means he'll get somewhere between $400 and $800 million.

Speaker 19 And we're really hoping he's kind to us around the tariffs.

Speaker 18 I agree. I've been talking to a lot of investigative reporters right now.
And by the way, a lot of techies are keeping

Speaker 18 tabs of this stuff. I have to say,

Speaker 18 in a couple of years, there's going to be a massive investigation. He'll probably be not too old to put him in jail for it.
But boy, is this a griff. You're absolutely right.

Speaker 19 Well, it gets worse. Now, the kids run on it.
World Liberty Financial, a crypto firm run by Trump's sons, Eric and Dant Jr.,

Speaker 19 60% of it is owned by Trump-affiliated entity, and they are entitled to 75% of its revenue.

Speaker 19 It's raised more than a half a billion dollars from investors who purchased the World Liberty Financial Governance token, and now it's being leveraged to facilitate pardons for criminals.

Speaker 19 Justin's son, a crypto billionaire, was under SEC investigation for securities fraud under the Biden administration. After investing $75 million in World Liberty Financial, guess what, Kara?

Speaker 19 The SEC dismissed his case. That's correct.

Speaker 18 This is a crash. It is really, this is the story.
I keep telling reporters, and you've talked about it quite a lot. This is the story.

Speaker 18 The absolute kleptocracy, and it's in plain sight. Absolutely.

Speaker 34 This is what fucking infuriates.

Speaker 19 I'm a real politic guy. I don't mind a little bit of corruption as long as it's good for all Americans.
I don't mind a little bit of strong arming.

Speaker 18 But here's the problem, or the tragedy.

Speaker 19 If Trump bought, if Trump brought half the competence, expertise, and elegance to governance as he does to grifting,

Speaker 19 the country would be in a much better place.

Speaker 18 He's good at criming. This is what we have.

Speaker 19 This will be my last statement here. Okay.

Speaker 19 We have a mob family running the country. That's the bad news.
The worst thing, the worst thing is that Michael Corleone is managing the crime and Fredo is managing the government.

Speaker 18 It's like, for God's sakes. That's a good analogy.

Speaker 19 You are so good at stealing. Can you bring some of that elegance, that timing, that expertise to the government, to actual government?

Speaker 18 Mobsters are usually smart.

Speaker 19 Fredo is in charge of our fucking military right now. And Michael Corleone is in charge of the Trump coin.

Speaker 19 So I forgive everything if you take the people managing your grift and put them in charge of our military and

Speaker 18 this is just, I get it, but they're not even smart. I don't even think they're smart.
I think they're stupid and they're just putting their bag out and say, put money in here.

Speaker 18 Mobsters are notoriously stupid. They just are just muscle.
And that's what's happening here.

Speaker 19 Anyways, the prediction is the biggest grift in history is happening as we sit here right now.

Speaker 19 In five years, 10 years, when this all comes out, and it will, this will be the greatest grift in an economy over a shorter period of time that has ever taken place.

Speaker 19 This will make Putin blush.

Speaker 18 Yep, absolutely. Okay, Scott, you've made your prediction.
Now it's time to hear one last one from a listener. This one is super serious, so please try to focus, okay? Let's play it.
Okay.

Speaker 19 Hi, this is Mike from Oakland, California.

Speaker 19 And I think my prediction is if Scott isn't already shaving his balls, he's going to start doing that because I think there's nothing more depressing than gray ball hair.

Speaker 19 And that's really my prediction.

Speaker 18 Okay.

Speaker 19 I am speechless.

Speaker 18 Excellent.

Speaker 19 I occasionally clip my whole body so I can feel like a jungle cat and then I put lotion all over my body and I just love me.

Speaker 19 Yeah,

Speaker 19 I'm not a big manscaper. I like Big Ed and the Twins to have a little bit of a beard.

Speaker 18 Yeah, I got to say, it's a big business. It's a big business.
No, it all. They have good names.
They all have such good names, all those manscaping things. They have really funny brand names.

Speaker 18 Anyway, I am not going to say how I know this, but I do.

Speaker 19 My junk looks like an aging anteater. It just looks sad.

Speaker 19 It just looks sad.

Speaker 18 Well, I don't know what to say.

Speaker 18 Scott is speechless, which is excellent. Thank you, Mike.

Speaker 19 No, I'm not. I'm not.

Speaker 18 I think clipping is good.

Speaker 18 Keep it clean for the ladies, Scott. Keep it clean for the ladies.
This is what I tell my sons.

Speaker 18 Keep it clean for the ladies.

Speaker 19 My wife came in, or actually

Speaker 19 came in on me while I was manscaping once, and she asked me what I was doing.

Speaker 19 Apparently, meal prep was not the right answer.

Speaker 18 Okay.

Speaker 18 Keep it clean for the ladies. That's my advice to all men.
Ladies and men, let me be clear. We want to hear from you.
Send us your question about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind.

Speaker 18 Go to nmymag.com/slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551-Pivot elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week.

Speaker 18 This week on Prof G Conversation, Scott spoke with Ann Applebaum, one of my favorites. Pula is a prize-winning historian.
She's so good. And she's so good.
And Staff Grader at The Atlantic.

Speaker 18 Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 34 Donald Trump is somebody who's constantly

Speaker 34 seeking to shape reality to his own benefit, and he feels no need to be accurate.

Speaker 34 And so anybody who does, anyone who cares about telling the truth, or who cares about making policy based on reality and not on this fiction that Trump promotes, is uncomfortable.

Speaker 34 And that means that all the people around him are either they're simply manipulable and they're willing to just do whatever he says, or they're people who have made a big, a kind of moral sacrifice, you know, who are doing something they know to be wrong.

Speaker 18 Hello, Marco Rubio. Anne Anne is terrific.
And that's, I can see why you're in the grift mode right now because she talks about this a lot. She's an expert on this.
I love her. I love her.

Speaker 19 I love when, I love when, unfortunately, I'm like, it's terrible. She's having a moment.
It's like if someone writes about famine, I hope they don't have a moment, but she is having a moment.

Speaker 18 She is. She's great and well worth reading.
Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot.
Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.
Scott, read us out.

Speaker 19 Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Ratod engineered this episode.
Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Siberio, and Dan Shallon.

Speaker 19 Yeshua Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.
Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

Speaker 19 You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care.
What economic theory opposes manscaping? Laissez-fur.

Speaker 19 Golden clove, Golden Globe winner for best podcasts.

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