Market Meltdown, Tariff Winners and Losers, and TikTok Deadline Delayed

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Speaker 6 Well, that's unfair. They'd fuck their mothers for a nickel.
I think that's more accurate.

Speaker 19 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher in my new studio without books behind me, but they will have them. Here I am, Scott.

Speaker 6 How do I? Oh my God, could you be any more? Well, you're apologizing for not having books behind you. Well, I'm going to have awards.

Speaker 19 My many awards is what I'm going to have.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 19 Do you like my new studio? It's in my house.

Speaker 6 I'm not sure I like the red chair, quite frankly. Really? Why?

Speaker 19 Does it upset you? Does it threaten you?

Speaker 6 No, it takes me back to an era I think you've moved on. I think you've turned the page on the red chair.

Speaker 19 I like it for now. I'm going to leave it because it upsets you.
Yeah. It upsets and disturbs you.
You mean it's like retro or that I should, it reminds you of Walt Mossburg, who I just had lunch with.

Speaker 6 No, I love Walt. I just think you've moved on.

Speaker 19 I don't know. What color share should I have with you in the Scott era?

Speaker 6 Plaid.

Speaker 6 No, I don't know.

Speaker 19 Black. I'm going to put your blanket that I stole from the Fife Arms

Speaker 19 for your birthday. I'm going to put it on.
Oh, good.

Speaker 6 That'd be nice.

Speaker 19 I'll put that on. Okay.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 19 I'll put it. I'll drape it.
I'll drape a Scottish, a Scott, Scottish thing on it.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I think it reminds us how old you are. But anyways,

Speaker 19 literally, right out of the gate.

Speaker 6 Go ahead. Out of the gate.

Speaker 19 Go ahead.

Speaker 19 You were on your college tour. Tell me, but you were away last week with your lovely guest hosts with Jen Saki and John Lovett.
They were great.

Speaker 6 Jen Saki. Those are both great.
They are great. They were very friendly.
I'd like to be friends with both of them.

Speaker 6 They'd be fun to roll with. We'll see about that.

Speaker 6 She's interesting and attractive, and he's interesting.

Speaker 19 Really? Okay. Sorry.
Sorry, John. Anyway.

Speaker 6 Who's the handsome one? Who's the handsome one? All of them.

Speaker 19 Oh, John Favreau is who you are.

Speaker 6 Oh, he's dreamy. Yeah.
That dude's dreamy.

Speaker 19 I think John Levitt's adorable.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's good looking.

Speaker 19 He was on Survivor. Do you know he was on the show Survivor?

Speaker 6 He was on Survivor. He's way too smart and overthought.
He's out in the second round. Yeah, he was out in the second second.
That guy's too. I don't know.
That guy's, I'm going to do this.

Speaker 6 I'm going to do this. I'm voting John off the island.
Okay, college tour, back to me.

Speaker 19 A college tour. Tell me about the college tour because I really don't want to talk about White Lotus in any way.

Speaker 6 So eight schools in five days, seven straight days of full parenting, cleared everything. Didn't talk to anybody.
I I think I only talked to you once, if that. And it was about the college tour.

Speaker 6 We went to, I like to personify everything.

Speaker 6 And just so I can make sure my kid gets into none of them, I'll personify each of them. So the first one we did was UW,

Speaker 6 University of Wisconsin-Madison. Yeah, when I was at UCLA, the fraternity next to mine was the Phi Caps.

Speaker 6 And the Phi Caps were basically these white dudes from small towns who abused substances who did really well on the SAT.

Speaker 19 Okay.

Speaker 6 That is the University of Wisconsin-Madison, except it's a girl who wears too much makeup, who really likes makeup.

Speaker 6 But they're doing their job. Actually, UW Madison, I rag a lot on higher education.
They're doing their job. They let in a shit ton of kids.
It's crowded.

Speaker 6 They have money, but it's not the Ritz-Carlton Madison.

Speaker 6 They get it. You know, they got the assignment.
I felt really good. I actually met with someone there just like in Virtue Signal.

Speaker 6 They do this amazing program where they train prisoners or they educate prisoners. They do classes at local prisons.
I'm giving some money to it. They're doing their job.

Speaker 6 I was really impressed with them.

Speaker 19 So you like them, but you just insulted them, so your son's not getting in there now. But go ahead and move along.

Speaker 6 There we go. Thanks for that.
And then we went to Chicago.

Speaker 6 Chicago's a dude.

Speaker 19 University of that's what you're saying.

Speaker 6 Yeah, UChicago. I did a session there in the Institute of Politics with David Axelrod.

Speaker 19 He's great.

Speaker 6 Yeah, which is available on YouTube.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 6 imagine a guy in a park.

Speaker 6 They're one of two things. They either win a Nobel Prize.
Everyone who goes there either wins a Nobel Prize or ends up in a park without shoes, feeding pigeons and speaking to themselves.

Speaker 6 I mean, these people are,

Speaker 6 I can't imagine people I would rather not party with than anyone who went to the University of Chicago. Having said that,

Speaker 6 having said that, Anyone that interviews with me that went to the University of Chicago, automatic hire because they're self-hating, they work all the time.

Speaker 6 They're brilliant, mildly depressed, perfect employees. Perfect employees.

Speaker 19 Move it through.

Speaker 6 Okay, keep going. Northwestern.
Okay. This is the gay son we all want.
Oh, okay. This is.

Speaker 19 You should write a college tour book.

Speaker 6 This is stylish, impressive. Yeah.

Speaker 6 Good in theater, but also like takes AP everything and does well. And it's the most, there is clearly so much money there.
It is such a beautiful campus. It is.

Speaker 6 But the lake is just sitting there going, oh, bitch, I'm going to make it so cold about three months a year.

Speaker 6 You may think,

Speaker 6 oh, my God. You can just feel the wind.
You can feel Mother Winter and the wear going, oh, just wait and see what I'm going to do to you. Then we went to Michigan.

Speaker 19 And saw my son.

Speaker 6 Your son is Michigan personified.

Speaker 19 Oh, no. You've got to be careful because he loves you.
And I'm his mom.

Speaker 6 Imagine you're a power forward

Speaker 6 and work all it all the time and a nice kid and you also get 11 million on the SAT. They're like,

Speaker 6 these kids are.

Speaker 6 Michigan is one of the schools. It's arguably the best public school in the nation, maybe tied with Berkeley.
But you can go super deep on social, or you could literally.

Speaker 6 try and split the atom at the building next to the cafeteria.

Speaker 19 Yeah, right.

Speaker 6 You can go deep either way.

Speaker 6 I think Michigan, and it's a big school,

Speaker 6 I like to call out schools that are doing their job.

Speaker 6 They're living up to their mission. They're trying to keep tuition reasonable.
It's not inexpensive. But educating a lot of kids, they're doing their job, and it's a really impressive place.

Speaker 6 And also, you can go deep in sports.

Speaker 6 Your son saved the day.

Speaker 6 It's storming. About 300 people.
By the way, we show up. We've been doing all these tours.
By the way, easy law. It should be a law punishable by death.

Speaker 6 No parent should be able to ask a question in the fucking parents' teacher in the tours.

Speaker 6 They all,

Speaker 6 I was so triggered. None of the students could ask a question

Speaker 6 because the over-parenting, and get this,

Speaker 6 the highlight, this is a true story, University of Chicago. University of Chicago.

Speaker 6 Three women, three moms asked the same question sequentially about safety on campus.

Speaker 6 The threat to an 18-year-old freshman on college campuses is dwarfed by the suicidal ideation of over-protection of parents that don't prepare them for the fucking real world.

Speaker 6 Moms asking questions at parent teachers.

Speaker 19 I don't think they should ask questions then. I agree.

Speaker 6 Parents at college tours are a bigger threat to your kids' safety. All right.

Speaker 19 Okay, moving along. So Alex took you on a tour, I understand.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 6 Anyway, so we get there. They canceled the tour.
The weather was so bad. They're like, we're canceling the tour.
So you have 100 kids and 200

Speaker 6 parents just sitting in the hallway. So I text Alex and he's like, yeah, come, come to the house.
We showed up.

Speaker 6 Imagine you're an animal living inside a trash dumpster.

Speaker 6 And it had Greek letters on the side.

Speaker 6 It is, it smells like

Speaker 6 old beer. There's shit everywhere.
And by the way, it's much nicer than my fraternity. And it's these kids playing foosball.
Some are in suits. Some are studying physics.
There's a way to get it.

Speaker 6 He said you liked it.

Speaker 19 He said you seemed to enjoy being there.

Speaker 6 Oh, it took me back. I lived in my fraternity for four years.
And my girlfriend wouldn't come over. And I'd say, why wouldn't you come over? And she said, it smells like cum.

Speaker 6 I don't want to come over. So I came up with a business idea.

Speaker 6 I came up with a business idea. I'm going to start a candle, and it's either stale beer or cum.

Speaker 6 I think it would work.

Speaker 19 There are probably four colleges in here. Alex gave you a tour.

Speaker 6 That's my Senate piano. He saved the day.
Oh, I'm sorry. Alex saved the day.
And then Alex said, no problem, come out of fraternity. We cruised around his fraternity.

Speaker 6 My son just got the biggest kick out of a fraternity. And then he took us on this, like, this like, I don't know,

Speaker 6 Cliff Notes tour of Michigan and then took us for lunch. He literally, Alex saved the day.
We were in a typhoon with a parent-teacher comp or a tour canceled, and Alex did this whirlwind.

Speaker 6 He saved the day. And my son is very impressed, very impressed by Alex.

Speaker 6 He couldn't have been nicer and more generous. Not easy for a kid to just take two or three hours out of his day.
Anyways, thank you, Alex Wisher.

Speaker 6 And then we went to Boston College, which we were really impressed by. I say that was the biggest surprise of the upside, but it is sort of a

Speaker 6 fallen Catholic. It's a kid that used to go to church, and by the 11th grade, he's selling dope out of his RAV4.

Speaker 19 Is that the AOC College or did she go to Boston University?

Speaker 6 Oh, AOC, what there?

Speaker 19 I feel like Boston University is where she was.

Speaker 6 It's a contradiction. It looks like these kids are waiting to get home and light up and maybe start doing some,

Speaker 6 you know, doing some beer bongs, but there's sisters everywhere. I did not, I still haven't figured out what's going on there, but it's a really impressive.
I was really pleasantly surprised by BC.

Speaker 6 We then went to

Speaker 20 UVA.

Speaker 6 I want to go to UVA. I think it's the most beautiful campus in the nation.
I think if we want to restore prosperity and mating,

Speaker 6 I think men and women should each get a number. And whatever the number is, that's you get married on the spot on the lawn.
Everyone there is nice. Everyone there is good looking.

Speaker 6 Everyone who's there is impressive. Just marry them all off.

Speaker 6 They should all just marry each other. They're never going to find a talent pool like that in the architecture.

Speaker 6 And then we went to UNC. And the terrible thing about teenagers is they start getting these terrible things called opinions.

Speaker 6 We got to UNC and my son was like a dog off a leash in the park. He just started running around and going in buildings and something happened at UNC.
UNC is basically

Speaker 6 the hottest, smartest person or the hottest, most, the most popular kid in class at all UNC schools have one thing in common. They leave North Carolina.

Speaker 6 The second hottest, most impressive person goes to UNC.

Speaker 19 Great schools. They're just

Speaker 6 got a great vibe. Great vibe.
A great vibe.

Speaker 19 Another school people love. The two schools where they talk about it to this day is UNC and Michigan.

Speaker 6 They love their schools.

Speaker 19 They love their schools.

Speaker 6 I'm not exaggerating, and I'm a little bit scared to say this. I don't think it'll impact anything, but he walked to the top of the stairs.

Speaker 6 I couldn't tell the difference between UNC and UVA, except UVA looks like it has 50 or 60 wealthier donors. It's a little newer.
It's a little shinier.

Speaker 6 But they look like the same school to to me. He walked to the top of the stairs, he turned around and he looked out over the quad and he goes, This is my school.

Speaker 19 No, see, you know it. All right, well, don't say anything.

Speaker 6 And all I can think about 8% out of state admissions rate. I don't know if it's your school.

Speaker 19 You need to move to North Carolina. That's what you need to do.

Speaker 6 I literally chat GPT'd that.

Speaker 6 How do you establish North Carolina residence? It's not, it's not easy. You actually have to live there.

Speaker 6 Anyways,

Speaker 6 it's two Republicans, but the governor's a great guy.

Speaker 19 All right.

Speaker 19 I'm going to stop your college tour now because we're dead.

Speaker 19 Good.

Speaker 6 I'm glad. That's my college tour.

Speaker 6 Next week.

Speaker 19 All right. We have a lot to, by the way, when you were gone, things happened, my friend.
Lots of things. Really?

Speaker 6 The world kept spinning?

Speaker 19 The world did not keep spinning. The world is crashing.
We're on a let's get right in. Let's get in.
The U.S.

Speaker 19 markets are on a roller coaster, as we record Monday morning, following an epic two-day dive last week, epic in a bad term, that destroyed $6 trillion in market value thanks to Donald Trump's tariffs, which seem like inane in the way they were formulated.

Speaker 19 U.S.

Speaker 19 stocks tumbled at the opening bell today, briefly surged following a report that Trump was considering a 90-day pause, which many are suggesting to him, including Jamie Dimon and others from bankers and other people.

Speaker 19 The White House quickly called that report fake news, and the current Dow S ⁇ P 500 are currently back in the red. So a lot of volatility, to say the least.
Who knows what Trump will do?

Speaker 19 In fact, he seemed to be sticking by his guns. We'll get to winners and losers from these tariffs a little later, but we've seen overall, we've been seeing Goldman Sachs has raised the odds of a U.S.

Speaker 19 recession to 45%.

Speaker 19 As Larry Summers put it, this is the biggest self-inflicted wound we put on our economy in history.

Speaker 19 In terms of retaliation, China was quick to respond, imposing a 34% tariff on all goods imported from the U.S. starting on April 10th.

Speaker 19 Trump said he's going to impose an additional 50% on China if they don't drop that 34% increase. And of course, the TikTok deal went out the window.

Speaker 19 The EU is expected to present a united front in the coming days with a set of targeted countermeasures. Let me read a couple more things.

Speaker 19 This retaliation moves, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who looks unhappy, said over the weekend that more than 50 countries have started negotiations with the U.S.

Speaker 19 since the tariff announcement, whatever, probably like the penguins, maybe. Though Trump also said, my policies will never change.

Speaker 19 Howard Lutnick, who seems like the biggest clown of all besides Peter Navarro, which are the two faces of this, also offered his take on how tariffs will lead to a manufacturing resurgence in the U.S.

Speaker 19 on Face the Nation.

Speaker 19 This quote, I literally was like, this is the dumbest person I've ever met. So

Speaker 19 let's go. Let's listen to that and then we'll get some reaction from you.

Speaker 21 Remember, the army of millions and millions of human beings screwing in little, little screws to make iPhones, that kind of thing is going to come to America.

Speaker 21 It's going to be automated and great Americans, the tradecraft of America is going to fix them, is going to work on them. They're going to be mechanics.
There's going to be HVAC specialists.

Speaker 21 There's going to be electricians. The tradecraft of America are high school educated Americans.

Speaker 21 The core to our workforce is going to have the greatest resurgence of jobs in the history of America to work on these high-tech factories, which are all coming to America.

Speaker 19 He's an idiot. I don't know what else to say.
The screws, the robots, whatever he said. Last thing, sorry, Mark Cuban said one thing the terrorists are going to spur is smuggling or resurgence.

Speaker 19 Mark Cuban said that

Speaker 19 and noted that maybe that's what the Border Patrol money is used for. So reaction.

Speaker 6 Well, let's just talk about Apple. Americans don't want to go into a factory and screw in little screws.
Americans don't even want to put on a hazmat suit and go to a regular factory.

Speaker 6 This notion that Americans are dying to go back to an assembly line is just not true.

Speaker 6 You can't get Americans to work on a construction site. Do you think they're going to show up for assembly line work? So, let's talk specifically about Apple.
iPhone costs about $1,200 or $1,300.

Speaker 6 With the existing tariffs, they're going to $2,000.

Speaker 6 If we tried to produce them in the U.S., they'd be $3,500.

Speaker 6 They're not. So first off, they're not coming back here.
And all that's going to happen is the following. Fewer people are going to buy fewer iPhones.

Speaker 6 It'll reduce Apple revenues by $30 to $40 billion, say economists. It trades at eight times revenue.
So you're going to wipe out a third of a trillion dollars. You're going to have 401ks go down.

Speaker 6 You're going to have people be less confident in buying things. You're going to have Apple employees and shareholders lose a lot of wealth.
You're going to have,

Speaker 6 I mean, you're in, we're not even talking about the second tier effects, and that is one, we are thrusting people into the arms of China. And two,

Speaker 6 assume it just goes tit for tat.

Speaker 6 Let's stop talking. We know tariffs are bad.
Let's assume that we reduce a billion dollars of Samsung sales, right? I'm trying to think of an analog to Apple.

Speaker 6 And Apple sales go down a billion dollars. Samsung trades at like 1.2 to two times revenues.
Apple trades at eight.

Speaker 6 So you think, okay, it's bad, but we each lose $1 billion in revenue and sales through prices or products that are less competitive because they're more expensive.

Speaker 6 No, we lose $8 billion in market cap. They lose $2.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 the biggest beneficiary of global trade over the last 30 or 40 years has been the U.S. because the products we export are high-margin, high-value add manufactured products.

Speaker 6 We're the second biggest manufacturer in the world.

Speaker 6 But what we do is we take cheap oil from Canada, we refine it, we take cheap products from other nations in earth minerals, and we turn them into very expensive 55-point margin and services.

Speaker 6 NVIDIA chips.

Speaker 6 So, Tesla, another example, Toyota, really well-run company, trades at 0.7 times revenue. Tesla trades at eight times revenue.

Speaker 6 So, for every billion dollars in reductions in trade of Tesla, we lose $8 billion in market cap. They lose $77 million.
So the echo effect here is so dramatic.

Speaker 6 And even beyond that, even beyond that, you're going to see, in my view, over the next five years, a pretty serious destruction in the value of our stock markets. And it's for the following reasons.

Speaker 6 The U.S. market trades at a PE multiple of 28 until Wednesday night.
Now it's down to 26. Germany is at 22 or 23.
Japan at 18, China at 14.

Speaker 6 Now, why do our companies trade at a higher value for the same earnings, the same profits

Speaker 6 as companies in other nations? It's because we have this umbrella called the U.S. brand, and it means a lot of things.
It means risk-aggressive capital. It means entrepreneurship.

Speaker 6 It means great universities, great IP. It means immigration.
It means rule of law and consistency. We're seen as a consistent trading partner.
China doesn't have rule of law.

Speaker 6 They can put companies out of business right away. They can disappear people.
Germany doesn't have as much risk capital. They're not as aggressive.
The U.S. is losing or has lost two things.

Speaker 6 Rule of law. We've now decided to basically ignore court orders.
We're doing one-offs and companies that make no sense. We're deporting people to El Salvador for no reason at all.

Speaker 6 In addition, we're no longer seen as consistent. The epileptic, sclerotic decisions of this guy.
So what are you going to have? You're going to have a re-rating of the S ⁇ P down from 26 to maybe 15.

Speaker 6 And here's the thing: all of our companies could continue to outperform the rest of companies around the world, and their stocks are still going to go down.

Speaker 6 If you invested in Latin American stocks, it didn't matter how well the company did. You cannot outrun multiple contraction, which is going to happen over the next five years.

Speaker 19 So, Seven Europe will point out correctly: like, it's deciding on this one person who has a wrong math and the wrong idea between trade deficits and tariffs and the relationship, every single thing he's saying is actually wrong and has this thing in his head that everything has to equal out.

Speaker 19 That if they buy this, we sell that, like we have to sell exactly. Like, why don't they? And Stephen Miller, same thing.
Why don't they buy American cars? Because Toyotas are better, you dumbass.

Speaker 19 And they make them here too. Like the stupidity is.
outranked only by the, as you were saying, the rule of law, the lack of any consistency, the reliability of the U.S.

Speaker 19 One, what has to happen here? What do you imagine that's going to happen here?

Speaker 19 Because there's now suddenly Jamie Dimon is speaking about Bill Ackman has suddenly found his balls again and is saying something truthful, although he made sure he sucked up to Trump in the beginning of his screed, which was about a nuclear winter in investing essentially, or in the U.S.

Speaker 19 economy.

Speaker 19 What's your advice to people that are panicking right now and trying to figure out what to do their investments? And then second,

Speaker 19 first, what's going to happen? What do you think is going to happen? And what's your advice for people if it continues in this way?

Speaker 6 I feel more confident in answering the latter than the former. I can't predict Donald Trump's actions.
I think he is so ⁇ look,

Speaker 6 the only adult in the cabinet here that isn't on unsecure phones and apps releasing attack plans to the rest of the world and who has any understanding of economics. I've said this for a long time.

Speaker 6 The adult in the room is the Dow, the 10-year, and the NASDAQ.

Speaker 6 And if the NASDAQ keeps going down, they're probably going to have to respond. They're not going to be able to jazz hands their way out of this.
The argument they're making is the following, is that

Speaker 6 the market doesn't represent the real economy. That's actually a relatively good argument.
The Dow Jones and NASDAQ are dangerous indicators because they give a false signal of prosperity.

Speaker 6 And a lot of people aren't impacted by the markets. They're impacted by things like inflation.

Speaker 6 The problem is, if you were to take minimum wage of $25 an hour or you were to increase taxes on corporations to try and have some fiscal sanity, that would take the markets down, but that would be an investment that would be worth it.

Speaker 6 This is just making products more expensive, making our products less competitive overseas, and convincing the rest of the world to reconfigure the supply chain to not include American businesses or professionals.

Speaker 6 That's just

Speaker 6 shooting yourself in the foot and then taking your gun and putting it in your mouth. So, but I have no idea what he's going to do.
I just don't get it.

Speaker 6 I think if this gets much worse, he's probably going to do some bullshit.

Speaker 6 Like, so for example, Jamie Dimon's suggestion, that's even worse because it's the uncertainty that hurts more than the tariffs. We're going to do the, we're going to pull another TikTok.

Speaker 6 It's just, for God's sakes, we'd be better off if he just came up with some sort of, not this tariff level, but some sort of modest tariff and let people plan their business.

Speaker 6 It's the uncertainty and the unpredictability. It's like being in a relationship with someone who's bipolar, speaking for a friend.
You don't know who you're waking up next to.

Speaker 19 Also, it's incorrect. One of the people who they base the theories on has written a piece in their time saying they got this totally wrong and they did the math wrong and it's a quarter.

Speaker 19 What they should put here is a quarter of what I said. You know, I said a quarter of what they're doing here, which means they don't know how to do math.
That's the part that's frightening.

Speaker 19 They actually don't understand what they've done. Like pushing the nuclear button, what does this do kind of thing? I don't, that makes me more nervous.

Speaker 6 The key to building a business, the team of the best players wins. Greatness is in the agency of others.
Do you know these ass clowns?

Speaker 6 Do you know where they came up with the formula for their tariffs?

Speaker 6 If you type in tariff, give me a tariff that

Speaker 6 levels up our trade debt, which is a stupid, you want a trade deficit. But if you ask the question,

Speaker 6 put in place tariffs against every nation based on bringing equilibrium to our trade deficit. If you put it into ChatGPT, you come back with the exact formulas they came up with.

Speaker 6 Their economic advisors are fucking turning to chat GPT.

Speaker 6 Let's go to your second question, what to do as an investor. This is what you do.

Speaker 6 Nothing.

Speaker 6 And that is,

Speaker 6 whether it's you getting a divorce, whether you lose someone you love, whether you get fired, you do not make big life decisions in the midst of emotional trauma because you are not thinking straight.

Speaker 6 In addition,

Speaker 6 tomorrow morning, he could announce, say he sells all your stocks today, he could announce tomorrow morning that he's removing all tariffs. He's capable of doing that.

Speaker 6 And the markets could rip up 2,000 points. And then what happens to your mental health when you sold at the bottom?

Speaker 6 Probably the worst piece of financial advice given to media was when Jim Kramer, who I don't think is, I don't think he's malice. I think he's a good guy trying to do the right thing.

Speaker 6 He told investors at the very bottom: if you don't like this volatility, you should sell your stocks. Within 14 months, we had recovered all of our losses.

Speaker 6 If you sold when Jim Kramer suggested you might want to think about getting out, you saw your net worth cut in half.

Speaker 6 And even more damaging to your financial well-being was your mental well-being because you saw everybody else get to back exactly where they were, and you were the idiot that sold at the bottom.

Speaker 6 This is what I'm doing. Since Q4 of last year, I just look at the S ⁇ P.
It's trading at,

Speaker 6 Apple's trading at 38 times earnings and it's not growing. I have been selling down U.S.
stocks and I have been diversifying into Latin American and European and some Asian stocks.

Speaker 6 Because if you're just invested in the U.S., you're not diversified. And see above a re-rating down, a contraction in the multiple of U.S.
stocks.

Speaker 6 You may want to think about maybe taking some tax losses, harvesting some tax losses. Talk to people.
Talk to people. Have a kitchen cabinet.
Don't do anything rash or out of emotion.

Speaker 6 But I think if you were to diversify into European stocks, which by the way, you're not buying low and buying, selling low and buying high. European stocks have been hit hard too.

Speaker 6 You're a little bit more diversified, which I think is a vastly underrated strategy.

Speaker 19 DEI, that stock pretty. All right.
We're going to go to a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit more about the losers and some winners from the Trump tariffs.

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Speaker 19 Scott, we're back. The number of sectors took a beating from Trump's tariff, and it's been particularly rough for big tech.

Speaker 19 In two days after the tariffs were announced, Apple dropped 16%, Meta fell 14%, Amazon was down 13. Nice job, boys, of going to the inauguration.
That really paid off for you.

Speaker 19 The two-day drop wiped out $31 billion in net worth for Elon Musk at $23 billion for Jeff Bezos and $27 billion for Mark Zuckerberg. I feel so bad for them.

Speaker 19 How's the investment in Trump paying off now as a reporter of the weekend? A number of these folks want to go to Mar-a-Lago to talk to him about this.

Speaker 19 I don't know if they've done it yet, but this was the rumor that was going down that they are really, and also bankers.

Speaker 19 Elon doesn't seem to agree with Trump on tariffs. And of course, speaking his mind, he said on Saturday that he hoped Europe and the U.S.

Speaker 19 would affect him to zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone. Totally opposite.

Speaker 19 He also had a couple of posts calling out Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor, who's such an idiot.

Speaker 19 This I agree with Elon on. All this, as EU regulators are reportedly preparing to inflict a billion-dollar fine against X for breaking a law to combat illicit content and disinformation.

Speaker 19 That's separate.

Speaker 19 This is interesting that he's doing that. The person that's looking more like a genius than ever, Warren Buffett, he didn't kiss the Trump wing.
He's been growing his cash pile in the last year.

Speaker 19 He's currently sitting around $334 billion.

Speaker 19 Never doubt, Warren Buffett, I guess. And then also a few losers, fast fashion brands, Sheehan, a Scott favorite, and Timu.

Speaker 19 Trump has closed the loophole that gave the tariff exemption on goods shipped from China valued under $800. I think it's called De Minimis or something like that.
It no longer applies as of May 2nd.

Speaker 19 A lot of people didn't like this loophole.

Speaker 19 Without the loophole, prices and orders could jump as much as 30%. Amazon might also take a hit because they ran into the low-cost storefront powered by China, Chinese goods, cheap Chinese goods.

Speaker 19 One of the things that was really strange was Scott Besson talking about how Americans shouldn't buy cheap stuff anymore. Too bad.

Speaker 19 And that's too bad for you, Scott, because you can afford cashmere all the time. But that was another message they were sending out is we should get off our cheap goods.

Speaker 6 So no longer shop at Walmart, the biggest employer in the U.S.

Speaker 19 Yeah, right. Whatever.
Like none of your fucking business, dudes. So talk a little bit about tech, because also the last thing is tech, it sells a lot of services into Europe and cloud computing.

Speaker 19 Also, so do the McKinseys of the world. And that's where we have a trade surplus in services, from what I understand.
So talk a little bit about why it's impacting tech and, you know, sort of the...

Speaker 19 You see the real cracks when the Elons and the others. Bezos is probably apoplectic.
Trump Cook is apoplectic, I'm sure.

Speaker 19 and Warren Buffett looks, he's 105 years old, and he's once again the goat.

Speaker 6 It's just okay. So let's look at Europe as the U.S.
We export NVIDIA chips.

Speaker 6 NVIDIA trades at 24 times revenues. For every billion dollars, they sell in additional chips to other markets.

Speaker 6 Institutional investors and employees of NVIDIA register a $24 billion gain.

Speaker 6 California gets enormous tax revenue from the incremental gains of shareholder value. When Mercedes exports Mercedes into the United States, they trade at 0.23.

Speaker 6 If they lose $1 billion in business, they lose $23 million in market cap. $23 million versus $24 billion in lost market cap.

Speaker 6 We have taken global trade has been great for the world. It's been the world more prosperous.

Speaker 6 And to be clear, we haven't done a good job of protecting the people who get hurt, some people who get hurt. There are certain industries.

Speaker 6 South Korea has done a good job of protecting nascent industries, strategic to them with tariffs. Tariffs can be used.
These blanket tariffs,

Speaker 6 or let me put it this way, one of the greatest increases in global prosperity over the last 50 years, it would be hard-pressed.

Speaker 6 You might think, well, it's the world order where democracies have bound together under the umbrella of U.S. prosperity and NATO and military might.
We have kept a peace.

Speaker 6 Wars are very destructive to economics. But at the top of the list would probably be global trade.

Speaker 6 Find out what you can produce best at the lowest price and trade with someone who's really good at producing something else, and you both get better products at a lower price, and you have a greater quality of life.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 it not only reduces the prosperity of the world,

Speaker 6 it massively,

Speaker 6 there's no nation that benefits more from global trade because our products are high margin, high value add. When Canada ships energy into the U.S., we then add value to it.
We refine it.

Speaker 6 We turn it into higher grade petroleum and we sell it at triple the price to other people.

Speaker 6 People, we are in the business of high-value add, high-margin, rule of law, IP driven that creates so much revenue and shareholder value.

Speaker 19 What about this argument that we're going to bring domestic manufacturing back here? And everyone, even the crazy stations are like, that's going to take 10 years.

Speaker 6 if and they're not going to do it it'll never happen it'll never happen it'll never happen and first off first off we're not just we're not just a taco truck with masseuses we're the second largest manufacturer in the world but we manufacture ai chips we manufacture really high value add products that have decent margins we have purposely outsourced low

Speaker 6 low value add low margin low shareholder value products. And American consumers, I'm sorry, American workers don't want to go back into factories.

Speaker 6 98% of businesses that sell into global trade are small and medium-sized businesses, 40 million jobs are related to or depend on global trade.

Speaker 6 And people say, well, 40 million to 355, that's not that bad. Only 150 million people in the U.S.
work.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 the notion we're going to bring back, we don't want to bring back. I mean, you need, what you need are great,

Speaker 6 great middle-class, well-paying jobs, vocational.

Speaker 6 You need more people trained to install energy-efficient HVAC heaters at 30 bucks an hour. We need that.
But there is not a line to go work on a factory floor in Lansing, Michigan.

Speaker 6 This isn't what people do. Try and renovate a house and see how much people want to actually build a home that were born here.

Speaker 19 They don't.

Speaker 19 Who wants to do that, immigrants?

Speaker 6 It's exactly right. So this notion, this notion that everyone's lining up to go work at a factory job in the Midwest on an assembly line.

Speaker 19 It's just, it's such a, it's like an it's like an 80s guy idea of the world. Like seriously.
And they, I get, you know, I do actually get the arguments about,

Speaker 19 you know, sort of hollowing out American manufacturing by doing cheaper goods abroad and

Speaker 19 going too far with free trade and not, you know, retraining people. There's great arguments to be made about trying to figure out new ways for people to have jobs.

Speaker 19 But this way, the idea, we're going to bring back factor. Every time Howard Luttnick gets on the air, I'm like, are you living in a different century? Like, it's just,

Speaker 19 it's been stuck in Trump's head for 40 years. And what's astonishing is the Republicans are like, let's listen to the president.

Speaker 19 Let's not. He knows.

Speaker 6 He's playing 4D shows.

Speaker 19 We just don't know. No, that's not what's happening.
He's stuck in the 80s. He's stuck in some era that no longer exists.
And wouldn't it be great if the women didn't vote and

Speaker 19 there was no such thing as me too? And I could do whatever I felt like. This is a different era.
And

Speaker 19 what kind of amazes me is that it hasn't gotten through to that the Republicans are still sticking with it. It's such a test of MAGA.
I've never seen anything.

Speaker 19 This has got to be the ultimate cult test.

Speaker 19 Will you take the Kool-Aid? Will you actually drink the Kool-Aid kind of thing?

Speaker 6 We're so narcissistic, we refuse to acknowledge that the rest of the world is a pretty interesting case study in history.

Speaker 6 And the 50s and 60s, Latin America embraced protectionist policies. Their economy did not grow.
They opened up. Their economy boomed.

Speaker 6 The last time we had tariffs like this, they weren't even as big as this,

Speaker 6 was in 1930, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Those tariffs weren't as big as these.
And

Speaker 6 what was the impact there? It widened, it worsened the Great Impression. Instead of boosting the economy and creating jobs, by 1933, real U.S.
GDP had dropped by a third.

Speaker 6 Do you know what would happen in the U.S. if GDP dropped by a third? And the unemployment rate, which is at 4%, hit 25%.

Speaker 6 I was really disappointed, really disappointed. I watched all the Sunday morning programs.
Margaret Brennan did a good job.

Speaker 6 The rest of them clearly didn't take an economics economics class because they couldn't ask a basic question. Name a country.
There are 159 countries.

Speaker 6 There are two centuries of economic, modern economic history. Name a country where this level of tariffs has worked.
It hasn't. It hasn't.
It hasn't. It backfires.
It's the ultimate own goal.

Speaker 19 The fact that they're going, let's wait and see. Like, no, let's not wait and see what happens when we inject bleach into our veins.
Let's not wait and see. We have to move on.

Speaker 19 But because, you know, one of the things that I want to talk about is this is a gift to China.

Speaker 6 This is, if china needed a way out of their economic doldrums we've just handed them the key like let me just ask you one question all right i mean this is a sincere question if they can if they can have a conspiracy that in the basement which doesn't exist of a pizza joint hillary clinton is drinking the blood of children they're sacrificing i can go semi-conspiracy theory okay go ahead let's hear it putin and she have each put 10 billion dollars into the trump coin or they've committed to it you're going to be the wealthiest man in history but you need to do the following things.

Speaker 6 You need to withdraw from Ukraine. You need to fragment the strongest U.S.
Western democracy alliances in history to give us license to do whatever the fuck we want.

Speaker 19 So he's the ultimate manchurian candidate is what.

Speaker 6 And we need you to thrust the biggest trade. And China's all about money.
We need you to thrust the biggest trading partners into arms. We need you to get Japan and South Korea to start talking to us.

Speaker 6 So again, if it was not Trump Vance, this is the question. If it was not Trump Vance, but it was was Putin she,

Speaker 6 what would be any fucking different than what has happened over the last two months?

Speaker 19 Well, it seems too complicated. I just think he's stupid.

Speaker 19 We should have hired the smart.

Speaker 6 That's a solid plan B.

Speaker 19 We should have hired the smart woman of colour.

Speaker 6 But that's my question.

Speaker 6 If Putin and she had been president and vice president,

Speaker 6 what would they have done differently? I don't know.

Speaker 19 I agree. I think he's just so stupid.
I just stupidity takes the cake here, and he's stupid, and he's adult. And he's got to go.
He's got to go. I don't know what else to say.

Speaker 6 Let's surrender Ukraine and side with our enemies. Let's pretend you won the Cold War, even though we won it.

Speaker 19 Except he has been talking about this for 40 years. It's been like a hair up his ass for 40 years.
Like he has been talking about this.

Speaker 19 So I feel like he's now like, I'm going to do this finally and see what happens. I'm pushing this button and I'm seeing what's happening.
I don't think it's a conspiracy.

Speaker 6 I'm going to ask ChatGPT.

Speaker 19 I can't do that. All right.
Let's go on a quick break. We come back speaking of China.
The TikTok deadline gets postponed yet again.

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Speaker 26 This is where Odo comes in.

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Speaker 6 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 8 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

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Speaker 29 And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

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Speaker 19 Scott, we're back. President Trump delayed the ban on TikTok for 75 days for a second time.
How ridiculous.

Speaker 19 A steal for the sale was reportedly closed until Trump made his tariffs announcement, causing China to pull out of the negotiations, obviously.

Speaker 19 Oracle, Blackstone, and Andrea Sinhoritz, all friends of Donald Trump were reportedly involved. Trump has previously suggested he could lessen tariffs on China exchange for a deal.

Speaker 19 I'm sure China is just thrilled to hear that.

Speaker 19 I don't know why China would do anything. Like maybe they will if they, if they want, I don't know why you would do anything.

Speaker 19 So talk, let's do a very brief thing about this because it's,

Speaker 19 I think it's just going to sit there in limbo and just. bump along, right? I don't, there's no deal here.
They're going to try to bring it under 20%.

Speaker 19 I think that's the amount, the ownership of China for Chinese, the Chinese government and for Chinese investors.

Speaker 6 Yeah. You go first here.
What are your thoughts, Karen?

Speaker 19 I don't know what's going to happen here. It feels like a story from the 1980s, too.
I mean,

Speaker 19 I think eventually it'll have some convoluted thing that's not going to make a difference or keep us safer in any way. I think they need to make the case of why it is dangerous.
I never...

Speaker 19 I sort of liked the law, but didn't like that. I didn't feel they made their case.
And at the same time, I'm absolutely certain the Chinese are manipulating it. Like, I don't even feel like that.

Speaker 19 So I think it's a, it's eventually a dwindling company, right?

Speaker 19 It will like over time, if it's not focusing on this product, I'm in this new zone, Scott, of like the reason things fail is because products suck.

Speaker 6 Well, the 45 to 95 was the brand era, but digital unlock around product is a new bomb again. It sounds boring, but

Speaker 19 like, I'm like, if, if Tesla made great cars, people would still buy them, even though I need a toad.

Speaker 6 No, they don't advertise. Right.

Speaker 19 I really do think that.

Speaker 19 I'm thinking to myself, I use amazon i don't want to use it because i i'm really irritated by jeff bezos but it's a great product and it's really hard like i think if if it goes

Speaker 19 to starlink to talk call you on face time i know i know um i think it's just really i think the problems that this will suffer as a product because of all this mishigash and so i i I don't feel kids talk.

Speaker 19 I mean, they're going to move on to the next thing. That's what I feel like.

Speaker 19 And eventually they'll come up with some convoluted way where Mark Andreessen gets even richer than he already is and more toxic and it won't make any sense and it won't protect Americans better.

Speaker 19 And China will continue to dominate. I mean, just to me, this has been all of this has been a gimme to China, just one big gimme to a government that does not want us to dominate.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 as it relates to TikTok, I just don't think we would ever let CBS, NBC, and ABC be owned by the Kremlin in the 60s. I think it's fucking insane to have TikTok.

Speaker 6 I think we're raising a generation of civic, military, and business leaders who hate America. 50% of people our age feel good about America, one in 10 young people.
And

Speaker 6 I might even be wrong, but just from a trade symmetry standpoint, there are no media companies in China, and we can't afford to have this.

Speaker 6 The average 14-year-old boy in America is spending 17 hours on a media platform controlled by the CCP. It's just not a good idea.
So it should be banned.

Speaker 6 Now, the second thing, and this goes back to the notion that you can't outrun multiple contraction, which we're about to incur the mother of all multiple contraction, is remember when Trump hated TikTok?

Speaker 6 And then remember when President Biden had a bipartisan law passed? And none of it fucking means anything anymore.

Speaker 6 Because if one of the largest donors to the Trump campaign, Jeffrey Ass, who also happens to be an investor in TikTok and a bunch of crypto bros and Silicon Valley bros are also investors, he can do all this bullshit.

Speaker 6 I'm in, I'm out. I'm your girlfriend.
I'm not your girlfriend. I want to break up.
I don't want to break up. Why would anyone take us seriously? Why would

Speaker 6 China? China is like,

Speaker 6 yeah, fine. China's not going to back down to the U.S.

Speaker 6 Unless they can figure out a way, unless they have all sorts of assets, which is Latin for spies within Oracle, and they feel like they can keep the asset in the U.S.

Speaker 6 as an espionage and propaganda tool and have their cake and eat it too, they're just going to play slowball because this guy will change his mind next week.

Speaker 6 Or maybe General Atlantic Partners or Sequoia Capital,

Speaker 6 who would have sex with their sisters for a nickel, will put pressure on Trump and offer me.

Speaker 19 What are you on that? I knew you'd bring in White Lotus, but go ahead.

Speaker 6 Well, that's unfair.

Speaker 6 They'd fuck their mothers for a nickel. I think that's more accurate.
Anyways,

Speaker 6 these folks now run the White House. And

Speaker 6 so this is TikTok just sort of represents

Speaker 6 one, a national security threat that we just don't take seriously because our kids like it and we don't understand it.

Speaker 6 And Biden, I remember when you took me to the White House, I remember thinking, and they were like, oh, we're not on TikTok. I'm like, that's a bad idea.
You don't realize what's going on.

Speaker 6 You don't see what's happening to our kids here. Your kid can see a beheading and then a dance video and then something showing,

Speaker 6 you know, viewpoints on Hamas and Israel or viewpoints, a bunch of people like, I'm even part of it. I see my angriest videos get the most play on TikTok.

Speaker 6 They get dialed up. And that's not just TikTok.
It's everything else. But why on earth, why on earth would we allow missiles to be planted on an island, Cuba, 60 miles offshore, the U.S.

Speaker 6 coast, even if they claim they will never use them against us? Like, no, we're just not going to put up with that. And then again, it's the inconsistency that's going to take our prosperity now.

Speaker 19 Does it matter? Because we're giving them advantage in this tariff thing. Now we've given them an even bigger tariff.

Speaker 6 Oh, biggest winner here.

Speaker 19 Winner. Biggest winner.
Winner winner, chicken dinner. China.
China, China. And they were

Speaker 6 really losing. Biggest.
They were really losing. Biggest winner out of all this.
Hands down. All of a sudden, Canada is like, Chinese are mining up all the real estate in Vancouver.

Speaker 6 This is what every, China, every Chinese

Speaker 6 diplomat and businessman is working. I've done a lot of business in China.
They're all working overtime, and they're going to European capitals.

Speaker 6 They're going everywhere and saying, they may say, you may not agree with us, but you know what? We're good partners.

Speaker 19 Lifeline for China. This has been such a gift to China anyway.

Speaker 19 That's our feelings.

Speaker 6 It's an unbelievable gift to Vice President Xi.

Speaker 19 All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

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Speaker 19 Okay, Scott, we're gonna do wins and fails. I think I shall go first.
I think when

Speaker 19 I really enjoy, I love a protest. I thought these hands-off protests were everywhere, every city was full.
I love seeing them in Turkey. I love like people turning out.

Speaker 19 I don't know if they work or not, but D.C. and New York, 100,000 attendees each.

Speaker 19 Amanda went down, I did not. And like average people, it was not like the professional protesters that you might see.

Speaker 19 Themes were administration's attacks on Social Security, the layoffs, deportations, Elon Musk, of course. I love the signs.
They make me laugh. IKEA has better cabinets, which

Speaker 19 they really do. Wisconsin hates Elon so much, it could be one of his kids.

Speaker 19 Abort, unwanted presidencies, we're all the couch now.

Speaker 19 Trump, of course, spent the weekend golfing. I mean, just the visuals couldn't be any better.
And I kind of just like it. It gets people in Bolden.
I don't know if protests matter, but this one

Speaker 19 had a real

Speaker 19 momentum feel, which is nice. And we'll see if that matters or not.
For the fail, so obvious. 60 Minutes, which is, you know, people talk about the decline of traditional media.

Speaker 19 People who do real reporting, really, we owe them a debt of gratitude.

Speaker 19 They did a story on Sunday on Venezuelan migrants who got deported to prison in El Salvador, and their reporting found no criminal records for 75% of those migrants.

Speaker 19 These people were taken off the street, many of them with legally here and put in a prison. It's literally like a, you know,

Speaker 19 a movie. It's a movie.
It feels like a movie. This is so cruel.

Speaker 19 And the people who are doing this to people and putting people in prison without any criminal record and sending them to another country they're not even from,

Speaker 19 I hope they go to jail themselves at some point and pretending they can't take them back. This is grotesque in every single way.
Grotesque. So that's a, it's like such an embarrassment.

Speaker 19 And people aren't paying attention because of all this stuff about the tariffs and the stock market. But boy, what a human rights disaster for us, our country.

Speaker 19 We have no ability to say we're a good people if we're doing things like that.

Speaker 6 I like both of those.

Speaker 6 I'm an ageist. I think all of these old people need to go away.
I think that

Speaker 6 Biden's inability and the people around him,

Speaker 6 their lack of backbone to acknowledge that biology always wins

Speaker 6 is

Speaker 6 if we've decided the prefrontal cortex of a 34-year-old is too immature to have that person have access to nuclear weapons, and for God's sakes, an 80-year-old shouldn't have their finger on the button.

Speaker 6 And my win is the market is responding. Democrat, I think it's Saikat Chakrabarty, who was the comms director for 35-year-old former boss, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,

Speaker 6 has decided that he's going to challenge Rep Nancy Pelosi, or

Speaker 6 he did challenge her. For Chakrabarty, 39-year-old software engineer, turned political operative.

Speaker 6 I like seeing young people rising to the challenge. In Los Angeles, 37-year-old Jake Rakov announced last week that he was running for the seat of his former boss, Rep Brad Sherman, who's 70.

Speaker 6 Brad, Representative Sherman, you served your country well. Now collect a gold watch and go play fucking golf.
You're too old.

Speaker 6 In Michigan, state senator Mallory McMorrow, 38, launched a bid for a state's open U.S. Senate seat by talking about her experiences as a millennial.
I mean, there are young people stepping in.

Speaker 19 I saw her at MSNBC. I was on Jen Saki's show on Sunday, and I ran into Mallory.
She's really impressive.

Speaker 6 Very impressive.

Speaker 6 And in Illinois, Kat

Speaker 6 Abugazala. That's the problem with all these young names.
Names are too fucking complicated. Change your name to like Smith.

Speaker 6 Change your name to Smith. You'll get more votes.
You'll get more votes.

Speaker 6 Anyways,

Speaker 6 Kat, I like that. That's what I'm going to call it, Rep.
Kat.

Speaker 6 Rep Jan

Speaker 6 Schaikowski.

Speaker 19 Oh, my God. Really? You're not doing this?

Speaker 6 Who is 80? Oh, wait. He's running for the seat of Rep Jan Schaikowski, who is 80.
Go home.

Speaker 19 Influencer. Yeah.
Go home.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Go home, Rep Jan Schaikowski.

Speaker 19 80. Good congressperson, let me say, for many years.

Speaker 6 Go ahead. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 19 Okay, so I'm out of here.

Speaker 6 Senator Schumer.

Speaker 6 Senator Schumer, you're 74. Someone this weekend offered me 10 million bucks if I put in 10 million to run for president.
I'm like, I'm too fucking old. You need someone who's going to work 19.

Speaker 6 Bill Clinton slept five hours a night for eight years.

Speaker 19 All right. Okay.
So fail.

Speaker 6 He was in his 40s.

Speaker 6 Oh, people. Okay.
We need my win is young people stepping up to the plate.

Speaker 6 If you're, and I always like to put accident behind a word, if you're a young, a young moderate running against someone who just is only there because they're a fucking incumbent, email me, scott at stern.nyu, and I'm in.

Speaker 6 I'm in for the maximum campaign contribution. I'm voting for youth and new ideas and vigor.

Speaker 6 Okay, my fail is the following.

Speaker 6 On Thursday and Friday, I lost,

Speaker 6 I don't know, somewhere between six and eight million dollars.

Speaker 6 I got some of it back because I'd shorted AI stocks, so I probably lost four to five million bucks. That's the bad news.

Speaker 6 The good news is, I am so blessed and privileged because of the underpinnings of an America that offers prosperity, offers opportunities to the children of single immigrant mothers who lived and died a secretary, rule of law, great entrepreneurial culture.

Speaker 6 It really doesn't matter. I'm fine.
I know it matters to a lot of people. I'm knowing flexing and bragging about my wealth, but it does have a a point.

Speaker 6 My disappointment is that, okay,

Speaker 6 we now live in a nation

Speaker 6 where we've decided to side with autocrats, not democracies pushing back on autocrats.

Speaker 6 We now live in a nation where it's possible that you can go to jail if you don't narc on someone who is planning to get an abortion.

Speaker 6 We live in a country where it is feasible where a 14-year-old who is raped has to carry her child to term. We live in a country where a woman could die of sepsis in an emergency room parking lot

Speaker 6 because she's bleeding out, because the medical professionals are too scared to perform a necessary abortion.

Speaker 6 We live in a country where we now have a president who's opened a Swiss banking account where anyone can put money in in exchange for political favors and not have to disclose it.

Speaker 6 That is the country we are in.

Speaker 6 And here's what money has done.

Speaker 19 You left out law firms, but go ahead.

Speaker 6 And we can intimidate law firms into agreeing, into agreeing not to represent the president's adversaries. I mean,

Speaker 6 that's the whole point of the, that's the whole fucking point of our legal system. Paul Weiss, go fuck yourself.

Speaker 6 Jesus Christ, don't call yourself,

Speaker 6 you should never call yourself an American law firm. Your headquarters is fucking Moscow meets Mar-a-Lago.
What cowards. And by the way, guest speaker, Bob Iger.

Speaker 6 That's the country we're in. And where do people turn up? Where do people decide, that's it, we have to go to Mar-a-Lago? Is when the markets are down 10%.
Well, guess what?

Speaker 6 That's about number 30 on my fucking list of what terrible things have happened to this country. So look, I'll take it.
I'll take it.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 when it's all about the markets and not about people's rights, not about humanity, not about coarseness and cruelty, not about the whole point of a constitution, the whole point of a democracy is you protect the lower 50.

Speaker 6 You and I are going to be just fine. And I understand your concerns about your family.
I think that is, those are real concerns. The majority of people in the top 1%,

Speaker 6 We're going to be fine. The whole point of a constitution and a democracy is you have to protect the bottom 50.
And what is all of a sudden the red line? The NASDAQ is down.

Speaker 6 That's what has people riled. That's the red line.

Speaker 19 That's the red line. Right.

Speaker 6 That's the red line. Yep.
Yep.

Speaker 6 All right.

Speaker 6 We're okay with murderous autocrats and 14-year-olds carrying babies to term. But if a NASDAQ goes down, that's too much.
You know what?

Speaker 6 On Thursday and Friday, the market's going down, I could give a flying fuck. I'll go

Speaker 6 take the markets down another 10%, start protecting the lower 50. I love this, Scott.

Speaker 19 The lesbian from San Francisco, Scott Gallery, I give you people. All right, we want to hear from you.
Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.

Speaker 19 Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51 pivot. I love your verb, Scott.

Speaker 19 Elsewhere in the Scott and Cara universe, this week I spoke with Jeff Lawson, owner of The Onion. Oh, what a great guy this guy is in terms of what he's done there.
Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 40 We have worked to create an environment where people will come to defend us in a way that they don't necessarily come to defend the New York Times.

Speaker 40 Because it's believed the New York Times can defend itself. It's a big organization.

Speaker 40 The little old onion, when you go after satire and it shows just how small, I'm going to make a penis joke, just how small your penis is when you come after satire,

Speaker 40 I think people rise up and they say, that's enough. Like we're going to defend this little thing called the Onion because satire is highly protected speech.

Speaker 40 And the onion is a beloved brand and a beloved publication.

Speaker 19 Anyway, really interesting guy. He's, you know, he's trying to keep it.
I love The Onion. I think they do a great job.
And he's sort of saved it in a lot of ways.

Speaker 19 Anyway, his name is Jeff Lawson. It was great.
And he loves Scott Gallery. So he had to make one penis joke.

Speaker 6 I love The Onion. Yeah.
I know. He's like,

Speaker 6 the hard part, though, is occasionally I read The Onion. I'm like, is that actual news? I know.

Speaker 19 They're doing all kinds of cool things. And

Speaker 19 he really did save it in a lot of ways.

Speaker 19 Just a small little contribution. He's a billionaire too.
He was at Twilio. He had a big activist investor thing, sort of toss him out, but really interesting guy.

Speaker 19 Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot.
Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We will be back on Friday.
Scott, read us out and be very indignant. I like it.

Speaker 41 Today's show is produced by Larry Amon, Soy Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kate Gallagher. Ernie Intertod entered into this episode.

Speaker 31 Julian Villard edited the video.

Speaker 23 Thanks also to Drew Bros, Ms. Severo, and Dan Shulon.

Speaker 6 Nashak Caro is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 41 Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

Speaker 35 You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod.

Speaker 6 We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Don't you often see someone and think, what's their story?

Speaker 32 What's their life?

Speaker 6 How did he end up on a park bench without shoes, feeding pigeons and speaking to himself?

Speaker 31 University of Chicago.

Speaker 6 I was on a college tour, Kara.

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