Roberts Criticizes Trump, FTC Firings, and White House Installs Starlink

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Speaker 17 I'm sure there are lesbians who have cyber trucks, but I'm not speaking to them anymore.

Speaker 17 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher.

Speaker 18 And I heard you're going on vacation.

Speaker 17 I am, just for a few short days.

Speaker 20 I don't think I've ever known you to go on a vacation.

Speaker 17 I know. I know.
Amanda required it. He didn't require it, actually.

Speaker 17 Two younger kids have different vacations because they're at different schools. And this was the only crossover.
And then Louie's coming too. Alex just recently went on his own vacation.

Speaker 17 So he's not coming. He's got school.

Speaker 17 But yeah, I know I'm going to like not do anything for four days, which is probably not true, but I'll probably be talking to you.

Speaker 22 Well, you may be too old for this to really have any impact on you, but my wife claims that she just loves to fuck on vacation, which is

Speaker 28 kind of a weird postcard to get.

Speaker 17 Dad's good. Oh, my God.

Speaker 29 Where are you coming up with all these bad jokes?

Speaker 17 Did you get a joke book?

Speaker 31 That's good.

Speaker 32 It's called the internet.

Speaker 28 What is the internet for other than watching videos?

Speaker 32 I know, I know.

Speaker 17 But lately, there's been five or six really

Speaker 35 tracking the slow descent into fascism and funny jokes.

Speaker 26 That's it.

Speaker 30 Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Speaker 36 I am so pissed off.

Speaker 18 I believe I'm that dad. I send at least

Speaker 39 two dozen ridiculously hilarious memes to my sons every day.

Speaker 17 And I will see, I will wake, I will get up at two in the morning and find out that they still have not seen them much less responded they don't even open or look at my memes anymore no text you text them my sons don't pay attention oh i didn't read your text i didn't read your text as a wife how can you not read a text i agree i don't even what if the house is on fire i know that well you wouldn't text that would you would you text that uh i don't know

Speaker 17 probably call anyways are you staying wait what's the is it the four seasons of the rich carlton there no no we rented an airbnb by the ocean and so it's near el junke uh amanda loves puerto rico i went there as a kid i haven't been there in a long time it's a beautiful place and so it's near it's on the beach and it's near the beautiful rainforest there so we're going to go hiking get louis to cook obviously because he's now he's now the babysitter and cook for the situation um and just relax for just a few days it's just not very long but it's i need it i think i finally oh you've needed it for a few years yes i haven't vacation in a long time when i vacation i don't vacation for people who need to understand this.

Speaker 17 I don't take time off.

Speaker 39 I'm pretty much on an extended vacation.

Speaker 20 I'm not exaggerating.

Speaker 45 I think I vacation arguably like 15 to 20 weeks a year, and I'm planning to increase it.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I know that. I'm aware.
I'm aware of the entire thing. We're going to have some guest hosts in a few weeks because actually, you're doing a thing with your kid, but that's different.

Speaker 17 That's a little different.

Speaker 30 College tour.

Speaker 47 College tour.

Speaker 17 Oh, my God.

Speaker 43 Where are we going to next that you have absolutely no chance of getting in?

Speaker 30 No, don't say that.

Speaker 17 It's hard to get in, but actually, I heard Harvard was off, like in terms of application.

Speaker 20 Harvard. Oh, my my god but it

Speaker 50 by the way can we just can we just talk for a moment about harvard yes okay harvard puts out this ridiculously you know this virtue signaling of all virtually wokustan meets total virtue signaling bullshit

Speaker 45 okay they announced that anyone any family under that makes less than two hundred thousand dollars has free tuition well aren't they just fucking amazing but here's the thing i think i did the math okay so you have about 1500 students i bet maybe a third come from families that make less than $200,000.

Speaker 56 And of those, they would have gotten some financial aid.

Speaker 39 So call it, call it, I don't know, 500 kids are going to get a $50,000 benefit.

Speaker 42 And that's being really, really generous.

Speaker 45 I think it comes out to about $20 or $25 million.

Speaker 30 Yeah. Okay.
It's not that big a deal.

Speaker 49 So they have a $53 billion endowment.

Speaker 45 If it's matching the market, it's doing about $4 billion a year.

Speaker 42 So they've decided to step up and give a whopping,

Speaker 39 what is that, a whopping half a percent and put out a press release rather than taking some of that $52 billion and stop acting like rejectionist, exclusionary, self-important jerk

Speaker 30 and expand the number.

Speaker 38 And here's what it is: it makes things even worse because this is what's happening in America.

Speaker 19 If you're the son of somebody who's rich or the daughter of someone who's rich or freakishly fucking remarkable, you not only get into an amazing university, you get to go for free.

Speaker 27 But the rest, the other 99.9% of America gets R down to a mediocre school that doesn't have a $53 billion endowment.

Speaker 59 This is nothing but making everything worse in terms of income inequality, and yet they have the fucking nads to put out a thing acting as if they're doing the world a service.

Speaker 48 Here's what you do, folks. You take some of that $52 billion endowment and you make your freshman class bigger than what a good Starbucks serves you.

Speaker 17 I would agree.

Speaker 17 Except for your obsession with woke ascending colleges, because I think they're mostly beaten down by now. So I think we can move along on that issue.
I think that is

Speaker 29 okay. In any case,

Speaker 17 a lot of colleges do do this for people who don't know. It's not a new and fresh idea from Harvard.
That was the thing I was, I was not aware of, and it is true.

Speaker 17 And if you make under a certain amount, you get the whole thing free, right? That was if you get in, if you get in.

Speaker 41 Pricing at elite universities is the following.

Speaker 48 There's the sticker price, which is for foreign students and rich people, so they can charge them a ridiculous amount of money.

Speaker 39 And almost everybody else does not pay the sticker price.

Speaker 62 And the problem with these elite universities that

Speaker 45 hoard this amazing drug called higher education is that they have so much money that it means absolutely nothing for the

Speaker 59 if you get into Princeton or Harvard, it doesn't matter how much money.

Speaker 39 If you have enough money, then don't worry about it.

Speaker 19 If you don't, you will absolutely get financial aid.

Speaker 39 It's the other 99% of our youth that has to go to a university that doesn't have these enormous endowments, that has to go into student debt, end up with a degree in philosophy from a Joey Bagodonitz University that they can't not only pay off, but is one of the few forms of debt that is not dischargeable in bankruptcy.

Speaker 37 And they want to put out a press release acting like, well, fucking smell you, Harvard.

Speaker 66 Aren't you good people?

Speaker 17 Okay. You know, I'm going to Puerto Rico.
Did I tell you?

Speaker 30 Oh, yeah. Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 32 It's really fun. I'm going to say I'm going to.

Speaker 30 La Senblach. La Senblach.
La Reunbloc.

Speaker 17 Some Bloc. They are also under siege by the government right now.

Speaker 27 Under siege.

Speaker 55 Under siege. Yeah.

Speaker 17 Come on, stop it. Trump is acting like a total asshole.

Speaker 17 Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including more presidential power grabs, the Chinese EV company putting Tesla on blast, and the fast fashion war claims its latest victim.

Speaker 17 By the way, I have a little text thing with Jessica, Jess Tarloff. She'll come to Paris with me.
I'm just saying. Yeah, you too.

Speaker 30 Yeah.

Speaker 17 I'm going to take, I'm going to steal you from her.

Speaker 17 Steal her from you.

Speaker 50 You guys have a little bit of a crush on it.

Speaker 30 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 67 Yeah. No, you guys seem to like each other.

Speaker 30 Okay. All right.

Speaker 17 Okay. No, I just like her.
She was teasing. She goes, I can't believe you won't go to Paris.

Speaker 17 Now, you know that there was a movie where all the people who had affairs with the guy got together and took revenge on him. It's with Cameron Diaz.
And oh my God, what's that movie called?

Speaker 17 Anyway, that's what's happening here. All your exes are getting together and we're going to take revenge on you.

Speaker 33 Well, we could fit all those people in a closet.

Speaker 17 That is correct. That is correct.

Speaker 33 The line is long at lovers of the dog.

Speaker 30 I know. That's right.
In any case. That's right.
In any case.

Speaker 33 Almost all of them still have their teeth.

Speaker 30 Yeah.

Speaker 47 Okay.

Speaker 17 Anyway, let's bring it back. All right.
First, let's speaking of losing, the judiciary is really pushing back on Donald Trump. Chief Justice John Roberts, clapping back against President Trump.

Speaker 17 Earlier this week, Trump called for the impeachment of a district judge who'd ruled against him over the deportation of Venezuelans, which led Roberts to issue a very rare response.

Speaker 17 Let me read part of it.

Speaker 17 For more than two centuries, it's been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.

Speaker 17 The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose. It's a little bit weak sauce, but there it was.
One GOP representative introduced articles of impeachment against the judge.

Speaker 17 Let's listen to what President Trump had to say about it on Laura Ingram.

Speaker 68 We have bad judges. We have very bad judges.
And these are judges that shouldn't be allowed.

Speaker 68 I think at a certain point, you have to start looking at what do you do when you have a rogue judge. The judge that we're talking about,

Speaker 68 you look at his other rulings, I mean, rulings unrelated. But having to do with me, he's a lunatic.

Speaker 17 This is what he said about every judge who deals with him. This is just a typical thing he does, insults the judges.

Speaker 17 Anyway, according to his sworn filing in an immigration and customs enforcement official, many of those deported did not have criminal records. It's really quite amazing.
They just grab people.

Speaker 17 He's lost, I think, six times with judges. So again, appellate courts are the way you win here, Donald Trump.
You tend not to win because what you do is illegal.

Speaker 17 But anyway, this is a major showdown, I think, think, between Trump and the Supreme Court.

Speaker 17 But he's setting up a real fight with the Supreme Court because all of these are going to eventually get to the Supreme Court. Any thoughts?

Speaker 39 Well, this is, I think probably one of the most significant historical events happened.

Speaker 26 Kind of, it got some coverage, but I don't think people realize how important it was.

Speaker 35 And that is the White House essentially defied a court order and

Speaker 45 let those planes carrying.

Speaker 52 carrying the people they wanted deported, some of whom had done nothing but had the wrong tattoo. And then they created what I think is basically a Republican snuff film.

Speaker 67 Did you see the video of them being dragged off planes?

Speaker 17 Yeah, that was by the guy who runs El Salvador, who seems like an asshole.

Speaker 17 But I think that was his with the music.

Speaker 32 I think he put them up.

Speaker 52 I mean, El Salvador is a really interesting situation, what's happened there, but that's another talk show. But

Speaker 50 effectively, if the White House is going to ignore court orders, the question is, well, okay, what power does the judiciary or the court have if they start violating court orders?

Speaker 66 And what the power they have is they could say, all right, if you carry out these, if you actively are the individuals defying these court orders, we can put you in jail or fine you.

Speaker 70 But the problem is the president can then pardon them.

Speaker 33 So if you have, we're in uncharted territories.

Speaker 39 We look, we have a criminal as president.

Speaker 64 And,

Speaker 64 you know,

Speaker 28 this is a convicted felon, someone who appears to have absolutely no regard for the law, who's set or seems comfortable carving up the world with another mob mob boss, another autocrat, who is now defying court orders.

Speaker 52 And if he has the power of the pardon and can threaten judges and appears to be comfortable defying court orders, then folks, you know, it might feel good, right?

Speaker 39 A decent number of Democrats and Republicans have both said in polls they'd be comfortable with an autocrat as long as he or she agreed with their views.

Speaker 20 All right, just wait until that knock on the door comes for you and your nephew or your outspoken

Speaker 27 friend on politics is kind of disappeared, is shipped off, is put on a plane to somewhere where they don't, aren't protected by the law, is incarcerated without due process, has their livelihood taken away and has no recourse.

Speaker 27 I mean,

Speaker 58 it's really interesting.

Speaker 39 They are doing exactly what they said they would do.

Speaker 61 When he said, I will concede the election if I win, that was a blatant, I'm going to be an autocrat.

Speaker 27 And everyone is like, oh, isn't that funny?

Speaker 69 Isn't that cute? He doesn't really mean it.

Speaker 53 He's pretty much done everything he said he was going to do.

Speaker 69 But if the courts are neutered by the power of the pardon or a president or an administration supported by one party that controls Congress, it says it's okay to violate court orders,

Speaker 50 we're essentially done.

Speaker 29 Well, I think that's

Speaker 17 why Roberts did that.

Speaker 17 He's issuing a warning because he's lost in the the Supreme Court several times recently, especially because of Amy Coney Barrett and Roberts together with the liberal wing of the party.

Speaker 17 It keeps being 5-4. And I think that he doesn't seem to,

Speaker 17 the Supreme Court orders, he's has yet to over

Speaker 17 not do. The issue is he's also the enforcer of these things.
And so, and J.D. Vance keeps quoting Andrew Jackson, let him enforce it if he wants to say this.
Let him enforce it.

Speaker 17 What was also, you know, really, it's just, this is what he's doing.

Speaker 17 and he's what he's doing is he's raising he goes you wouldn't you can't do that however we have bad judges the only judge he likes is eileen cannon who does whatever he wants right anything that's for him and she's a she's an incompetent a judge essentially but she gets to stay there until they remove her and she can be overturned on appellate court and that's the whole system which is what roberts was talking about but we'll see how far he goes here like he's already gone very very far down the line and and his little handmaidens to sedition like

Speaker 17 Laura Ingram,

Speaker 17 are really disturbing. Like, it's a disturbing thing to agree that you're going to attack judges.
Now, in other countries where they've tried this, the guys typically they don't win.

Speaker 17 The courts tend to win.

Speaker 17 But we'll see. We'll see what happens.

Speaker 51 Look at what's going on in Hungary.

Speaker 42 I mean, Viktor Urban, who's sort of the role model or the idol here for how Trump is executing his presidential powers,

Speaker 64 there's enormous protests

Speaker 32 in Hungary, which is actually really hopeful.

Speaker 17 I do too. I saw the future of the GOP right here.
Right here it is. You can only do so much.
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 17 And I think Roberts is a critically important character, even though most people think he's a limp noodle.

Speaker 17 But he did that. And for him, that was like screaming, I think, I believe, according to lawyers I know.

Speaker 17 And by the way, he keeps Trump has lost and lost and lost yesterday, particularly over and over and over again.

Speaker 44 But the question then becomes, does that mean anything?

Speaker 17 when you lose if they just stop if they just start ignoring those those those core decisions right he i think he has started to not ignore them on some things and the others they play fast and cute especially that border czar tom homan what a clown well he looks like he's enjoying a cocktail or two when he speaks to the press but um he says we'll do what we want oh he seems so dumb like and a clown anyway uh president trump just uh fired by the way the two democratic members of the ftc which is very illegal saying their services is inconsistent with my administration's policies that's right because they're democrats just for for people to know, the FDC typically has five members with the president's party holding three of those seats.

Speaker 17 They're seven-year terms. You can't fire them except for gross incompetence, not inconsistent with my administration's policies.
That's the whole point of having two members be from a different party.

Speaker 17 The two-fired Democrats, Rebecca Kelly Slaughter, who I know very well, and Alvara Bedoya, plan to challenge Trump's decision in court.

Speaker 17 Obviously, Bedoya told the New York Times, when people head in the news, they need not think about me. They need to think about the billionaires behind the president and his inauguration.

Speaker 17 And that's exactly what this is. This is a payback to

Speaker 17 the people who sat on the front row.

Speaker 17 FTC is investigating all of these companies, whether you agree with them or not. They'll lose in court if they're not.
They don't have a good case again.

Speaker 17 So, you know, and the guy who runs the FTC is such a unctuous toady, Andrew Ferguson, let me name him. You're an unctu.

Speaker 17 To allow these people, they already had, they're going to have a dominance. They need to add one more person to the FTC, but they're going to have a dominance anyway.

Speaker 17 So I don't know why they need to do this.

Speaker 17 But it really does, it feels like payback to everybody standing up there at Trump, all the tech billionaires

Speaker 17 in terms of antitrust cases and everything else. Even if you didn't agree with Lena Khan, that's the whole point here is the person, the

Speaker 17 party in power gets to decide. And this is just a wholesale giveaway to the billionaires.

Speaker 17 Again, once again.

Speaker 66 Yeah, you have essentially

Speaker 52 what people or what Democrats have failed to do is connect antitrust with lower inflation.

Speaker 53 And that is, it's no accident that Google announced they were going to acquire, it was called Wiz a company last year.

Speaker 52 And the FTC and DOJ said, we have some concerns, and they called it off.

Speaker 64 And

Speaker 55 the Wiz filed to go public.

Speaker 18 Now, had Biden been re-elected, or excuse me, Harris been elected, it's likely that Wiz would have gone public and Google would have had a competitor, which would have meant that enterprises that use these products would have had more options, which results in competition, which results in lower prices.

Speaker 35 But because

Speaker 52 Trump was elected, the FDC and the DOJ have effectively have an entirely different complexion now in terms of the bar or how high the bar needs to be to file an action to block a merger and acquisition.

Speaker 64 And what do you know? Google came back and said,

Speaker 52 let's acquire this company.

Speaker 39 So under the Biden administration, you know, last year was a record low for M ⁇ A, but you're going to see a lot, you're going to see a further consolidation of power.

Speaker 23 And one of the biggest issues facing our economy is really boring.

Speaker 26 You know, it's the boring stuff that moves the needle.

Speaker 52 And it's the fact that across everything from home renovations to chicken to things like fertilizer, much less digital media, there are a small handful of companies that control the entire market.

Speaker 73 And the result is in concentrated industries, they can charge higher rents on corporations and on consumers.

Speaker 70 So if you want, I mean, it sounds really boring, but if you want inflation to come down over the medium and the long term, you want a really robust FTC and DOJ.

Speaker 39 And they're no longer that.

Speaker 44 They're basically there to say, okay, Jonathan Cantor, who I had on the podcast, was more optimistic.

Speaker 52 He said that a lot of people still at the FTC and the DOJ are not exactly, they're not just going to roll over.

Speaker 17 Especially the DOJ.

Speaker 43 We still haven't been able to effectively on the left communicate that MA, while it feels like capitalism and it's more macho and get out of the way of companies.

Speaker 48 There are a surprise.

Speaker 73 We have seven companies basically driving the stock market right now.

Speaker 17 Google bought the Wiz for $32 billion for people who don't know. It's a security cloud company, Cloud Security Company.

Speaker 3 I think it's the biggest acquisition ever. It is.

Speaker 17 It's enormous.

Speaker 17 So it really is anti-competitive because it's one of the most fast-growing software companies in the world right now. So it's taking out, again, a really

Speaker 17 robust competitor, which is really something.

Speaker 59 Well, when companies,

Speaker 33 so it sounds, okay, it's their biggest, it's their biggest acquisition ever.

Speaker 52 It's only a 1.5% dilution to their stock price.

Speaker 54 They have a $2 trillion market cap.

Speaker 45 They can make a $30 billion acquisition.

Speaker 25 I mean,

Speaker 28 these companies are just so enormous and have so much capital that they can, can, I mean, quite frankly, they could afford to buy this, and they're not going to do it here, but they could afford to buy this and do an acro kill and just kill it if they were bothering them.

Speaker 39 Because a 1.5% dilution of the stock price is just not, quite frankly, $32 billion

Speaker 39 is a lot of money.

Speaker 53 A dilution of 1.5% of your outstanding stock is not.

Speaker 43 And these companies, these big companies have such an advantage because the reality is, if they see any sort of strategic reason whatsoever to acquire a company,

Speaker 26 no no one else can compete.

Speaker 39 There's a small handful of companies that have multi-trillion dollar market caps.

Speaker 40 It's like when the kingdom decides they're bidding on the World Cup, no other bidder even shows up because every other country was like, why bother?

Speaker 39 Why even go through the hassle of finding the former governor of the province of Brazil or whatever, putting together a team, putting together a group of people, putting our best foot forward?

Speaker 19 Why even bother when we know the kingdom is showing up?

Speaker 26 And if one of these players shows up for an acquisition,

Speaker 17 it's over.

Speaker 30 It's over. It's done.

Speaker 17 FTC chairperson Ferguson, again, unctuous Tody,

Speaker 17 his new nickname, posted a statement on X saying he had no doubts about Trump's constitutional authority to remove commissioners. Oh, my God.
It literally says he can't remove commissioners.

Speaker 17 It's so weird. It's like them saying, oh,

Speaker 17 someone met her and MAGA are saying

Speaker 17 president can stay three terms. And I was like, the 22nd Amendment says you can't.
And these people are arguing the Constitution says you can't. Literally, the opposite of what it says, they say.

Speaker 17 And it's so irritating. Senator Maria Cantwell and Amy Klobuchar, by the way,

Speaker 17 who serve on the committees that oversee the FTC, even though they don't have power right now, President Trump's dismissal of Commissioner Slaughter and Bedoya not only illegal, but also hurts consumers by undermining an independent agency that Congress established to protect consumers from fraud scams and monopoly power.

Speaker 17 Now, the FTC is moving forward with its meta lawsuits.

Speaker 17 He said,

Speaker 17 Ferguson said they're going to move forward with meta, but we'll see. We'll see.

Speaker 17 I think that's probably their strongest case. And again, they can move forward with these things.
And if they lose, they lose, right?

Speaker 17 So, you know, we'll see how

Speaker 17 much they're going forward. So I guess Mark Zuckerberg's appearance didn't help as much as the others, essentially.
Anyway, let's go on a quick break and we come back.

Speaker 17 Starlink gets installed at the White House. Even worse.
God, it just gets worse and worse. worse.

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Speaker 17 Scott, we're back. Starlink is now accessible at the White House.

Speaker 17 White House officials said the move was an effort to increase internet availability, saying some areas of the property couldn't get self-service. This is nonsense.

Speaker 17 The system was reportedly routed through the White House data center.

Speaker 17 Officials said Starlink donated the service and the gift was vetted by lawyers overseeing ethics issues at the White House counsel's office. So many tech types I talk to say this is dangerous.

Speaker 17 It's like putting Putin's listening device in the White House, but that might already be there in the form of the president. So I don't know.
What do you think? It's also ethically ridiculous.

Speaker 52 Well, it's more just sort of the White House is turning into a giant infomercial for its political allies.

Speaker 39 But in addition,

Speaker 58 I think it's stupid of SpaceX and Starlink.

Speaker 39 Starlink, I absolutely love Starlink.

Speaker 40 I think it's an amazing product.

Speaker 28 It's a superior product.

Speaker 52 And its competitors all of a sudden have seen their stock prices surge and have access to capital to potentially at some point be a competitor.

Speaker 46 I think Jeff Bezos, I think everyone is eyeing this space going, these guys have created an opening because

Speaker 55 of Musk's kind of overt political activity.

Speaker 54 I'm now thinking, how do I get rid of or how do I not use Starlink?

Speaker 26 And

Speaker 43 I just think this is a dumb move for them.

Speaker 79 People are,

Speaker 39 he is alienating 52% of the population overnight with his products.

Speaker 48 And I just want to give a shout out to me.

Speaker 46 I sold my Tesla before it was cool three years ago.

Speaker 71 And

Speaker 48 I don't know if you saw the

Speaker 52 Senator Kelly just did it, just made a big deal of him selling his Tesla.

Speaker 35 This is next.

Speaker 30 Starlink, if you,

Speaker 55 they basically decided to politicize this product.

Speaker 39 And I think just on an economic level, shareholders, SpaceX is one of the most actively traded and most valuable private companies on the secondary market.

Speaker 46 It's also responsible now for the majority.

Speaker 19 It's the largest source of wealth now for Musk because he owns so much of it.

Speaker 21 And it's an incredible product, but

Speaker 52 it looks like it's going to go the same way of Tesla, and that is it's attracting a ton of competition.

Speaker 79 People will catch up and then people given sort of a coin flip or a tiebreaker will opt for the company that's not run by someone whose politics they don't agree with.

Speaker 58 So I think it's a stupid move.

Speaker 17 I just don't know why they, the security issues to me, or whatever.

Speaker 17 They can get whatever they want from this guy, the Russians, but you can imagine this creates a more porous environment, which is maybe the point.

Speaker 17 Another thing they're doing, besides making us less secure, is also, from a technical point of view, is removing information from websites all over the government that is, you know, mentions people.

Speaker 17 And there's two things that really stood out. The first, the HHS has removed the Surgeon General's advisory on gun violence from its website.

Speaker 17 A spokesperson for the agency said the content was removed to comply with Trump's executive order to protect Second Amendment rights.

Speaker 17 Firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens in the U.S.

Speaker 17 Also recently removed, this was heinous, articles about Native American code talkers have been removed from some military websites, including having been labeled DEI.

Speaker 17 The Navajo Code Talkers aided America's victory at Iwo Jima, historically critically important

Speaker 17 group of people who did this.

Speaker 17 And I think they just are removing all kinds of things that, well, some words don't work and they end up removing the wrong thing because they have a list of fucking words that don't work instead of going through this kind of thing.

Speaker 17 They just do this wholesale, you know, cut and paste essentially.

Speaker 17 Replacing this information is going to be very difficult over time because it will be replaced eventually. But between the firearms and these code talkers,

Speaker 17 I feel like I'm living in 1984, like in the book 1984. I don't know how you feel.

Speaker 79 This is, I mean, again, it's difficult to know where to focus because the hits keep on coming.

Speaker 53 But as you referenced, number one source of death for children in the United States, past accidents, cancer, drowning, drug poisonings is now firearms.

Speaker 45 And as someone who left the U.S.

Speaker 52 18 or two and a half years ago, I'm just telling you, a free gift with purchase living in the U.K.

Speaker 26 is you don't have these horror fantasies involving gun deaths or mass shooters. And

Speaker 48 54% of U.S.

Speaker 27 adults report that either they or a family member have experienced a firearm-related incident.

Speaker 28 One in five have a family member who was killed by a firearm, including suicide.

Speaker 53 And then going back to, I always like to ground everything in a personal parable.

Speaker 27 When I sold my first company, Profit,

Speaker 39 there was like a 20-year anniversary of the company.

Speaker 52 I started the company when I was 26, And me and the other co-founder were not invited.

Speaker 4 The CEO wanted it to be all about him.

Speaker 54 Fine, okay, how about it?

Speaker 39 And we used to joke that we were like, that we were living in a fascist state and we were Trotsky being erased from photos.

Speaker 26 And even we heard about them showing up to clients and referring to themselves as the founders.

Speaker 39 Like we were literally erased from the scrolls of history from this company, despite the fact that we had hired everybody that was now claiming they were the founders.

Speaker 48 And to

Speaker 53 go back in history and say to the

Speaker 66 2.5 million African Americans that registered for the draft, the 1 million African Americans that fought in World War II, the 33,000 Japanese Americans who fought mostly in the European theater, despite the fact that maybe their parents had been sent to confinement camps, 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry,

Speaker 44 and then to not at least nod that many of them served in World War II.

Speaker 52 There was 20,000 Chinese Americans.

Speaker 39 There were 44,000 Native Americans.

Speaker 26 Somewhere between 5% and 10% of the entire indigenous population fought in World War II, a quarter of a million Filipino Americans, 400,000 Hispanic Americans.

Speaker 26 And to not acknowledge that is to not acknowledge

Speaker 26 one of the great victories, one of the great civil rights advancements

Speaker 44 in American history that makes our military so

Speaker 61 the U.S.

Speaker 52 military, I believe, is the most impressive organization in history.

Speaker 41 And across

Speaker 44 many of its achievements and many of its victories, it was also a tremendous means of progress and civil rights, because there's something about wearing the same uniform and being dependent upon the guy or the gal next to you that has a tendency to make you look at each other for your character and your skills and nothing else.

Speaker 52 And the armed services have been an outstanding means of progress for special interest groups. And to remove their commitment and their sacrifice, it's just so un-American.

Speaker 30 It's un-American.

Speaker 17 It's petty and it's cruel and it's weird. It's just weird.
It's just so weird. I mean, especially these,

Speaker 17 the gun stuff is beyond belief. It's just a fact.
And I think what's really, you know, obviously it's yet another attempt, like with the judges. This has a theme, everybody.

Speaker 17 You remove the judges, you remove information. You only tell people, I don't think it works at all.
I honestly don't. I think people are sick and tired of this and they get it.

Speaker 17 And Americans are a uniquely difficult group of people. And so I don't think it works.
I don't think it holds. I think in other countries, sometimes it does.

Speaker 17 But in this one, I think people get furious about, especially stuff like this.

Speaker 17 I mean, literally just to, they have one issue with DEI and they cannot stop. That's the thing.
They cannot stop with one or two things. They've got to completely erase.

Speaker 17 everything, especially this cut and paste of words. Like they, I forget what they took out, some dumb thing.

Speaker 17 But that's beyond belief. This is, this to me is ridiculous and everyone everyone knows that gun violence kills kids.
That's it.

Speaker 17 There's I don't care how many things they take down everybody knows and everyone's aware of it and they will pay the price here for going overboard on almost everything.

Speaker 35 Well, we hope we hope they'll pay the price.

Speaker 30 I think they will pay the price.

Speaker 33 So far they haven't.

Speaker 45 We keep hoping and waiting.

Speaker 53 But just back to the erasing people from photos of history and a really positive part of our history.

Speaker 21 You're going to Puerto Rico, 53,000 Puerto Ricans fought in in World War II.

Speaker 17 I love all your stats, Scott.

Speaker 48 400,000 Hispanic Americans, including 350,000 Mexican Americans.

Speaker 4 These are people who came here, felt really fortunate to be a part of this great experiment called America, and decided to put themselves,

Speaker 39 you know, and risk bodily harm to serve in a uniform to fight for the rights of all Americans.

Speaker 60 And we're erasing them from history.

Speaker 48 It's just, it's very strange and self-defeating.

Speaker 53 And

Speaker 39 how likely are people going to be to raise their hand and say, I will fight for my country, thinking that at some point my contribution might be starched from history?

Speaker 52 It's very disappointing, to say the least.

Speaker 17 And it's very typical. It's not a surprise.
I think karma is a bitch.

Speaker 17 I think putting people in jail that never had a criminal record without due process, everything is, karma is going to be such a bitch here.

Speaker 17 I just believe that because it's one thing after the next where injustice happens. And so we'll see.
Let's go on a quick break. We come back.
We'll talk about BYD's big breakthrough.

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Speaker 17 Scott, we're back. Chinese EV company BYD is promoting a new fast-charging technology that can allegedly add 250-mile range in a five-minute charge.
Woo, I was very excited about this.

Speaker 17 The new battery and charging system will be used in BYD's next-generation vehicles. The company plans to build more than 4,000 ultra-fast chargers across China.

Speaker 17 This puts BYD well ahead of Tesla, whose superchargers currently add around 170 miles on a range of range for a 15-minute charge. It takes longer than that, just so you know.

Speaker 17 BYD shares hit a record high yesterday on the news. The company is up more than 50% for the year with a $160 billion market cap, as Tesla is down 30-some percent, 37%.
some percent.

Speaker 17 It goes up and down, but it's mostly 30% for the year.

Speaker 17 Is this Tesla's deep-seek moment? TeslaSock is currently headed for its nine straight weekly loss. It's now 53% below all-time highs.
Statistically, everybody's gaining, including U.S.

Speaker 17 makers of EVs, all over the place. And Tesla is losing a market share.
And of course, there's the protests that go on across the country.

Speaker 17 Attorney General, but they're trying to, he's trying to get an assist from Attorney General Pam Bondi, is labeling recent attacks on Tesla dealerships an act of domestic terrorism directed at Elon Musk, who was weeping about it on Fox News, saying he's only done lovely things for people his whole life and he's never been violent.

Speaker 17 Well, fine. He's created a situation where people die, but that's whatever you say, Elon.

Speaker 17 Bondi said in a statement that the DOJ will investigate these incidents and pose severe consequences on the people involved.

Speaker 17 There's definitely an organized protest across, interestingly, by the person paying for it is the wife of Steve Jervison, who is Elon's pal. The ex-wife, who's a big Democratic donor, is

Speaker 17 helping get these things organized,

Speaker 17 these protests, which is perfectly within the rights of her and the protesters to do. Obviously, not within the rights are

Speaker 17 violence, but they're certainly allowed to cause all kinds of ruckuses in front of these places and put up Nazi pictures of Elon and stuff like that.

Speaker 17 BYD is doing the innovative things Tesla should be doing if its CEO was paying attention. And secondly, if people don't like Elon Musk, they can protest against him.

Speaker 17 And for the Attorney General to call it domestic terrorism is really beyond the pale. Again, an ad for Elon Musk by the president, his own personal attorney general.

Speaker 53 In the first two months of this year, Tesla sold 60,000 vehicles.

Speaker 27 BYD sold 481,000.

Speaker 69 And

Speaker 25 that represents a 75% increase year on year of BYD and a 14%

Speaker 36 decline for Tesla.

Speaker 52 And despite Tesla losing a third of its value in the last month, it's still,

Speaker 52 if Tesla trades like other car companies that are growing at the same rate, which is declining, now the majority of car companies are growing faster than Tesla.

Speaker 46 That puts its stock at about $14 a share.

Speaker 48 So the notion that somehow Tesla has had some market correction,

Speaker 37 we haven't even seen a correction around.

Speaker 17 Not compared to what it does. What do you think of Bondi doing this?

Speaker 17 And the protests. What do you think of the protests? They continue.
They haven't stopped, which is really interesting.

Speaker 65 I'm of two minds.

Speaker 39 And that is, I don't think people should damage physical property.

Speaker 52 I joke that whenever I get a Tesla, I cancel or I let it wait outside. I have started canceling when I get Teslas, and I try to put it in the notes although you can on Uber.

Speaker 70 I don't think people should deface property.

Speaker 53 I don't think people should feel unsafe in in their cars.

Speaker 28 But protests, peaceful protest, is an American right.

Speaker 17 We're calling it cybertruck owner an asshole.

Speaker 17 If you choose to buy it, I think that's perfectly fine. I think if it is.

Speaker 32 I don't agree.

Speaker 28 You buy a cyber truck.

Speaker 43 I do think there needs to be

Speaker 35 for the benefit of all of us.

Speaker 30 I don't do it.

Speaker 19 I think we err on the side of civility.

Speaker 73 Quite frankly, I didn't like it when J.D.

Speaker 26 Vance gets booed on a ski mountain with his family.

Speaker 74 It tickles my sensors.

Speaker 52 But I think that in America, ideally, you want to err on the side of giving people some grace when they're out in public, including driving their car.

Speaker 56 I'm turning into an old person.

Speaker 17 You are, because I think that's exactly what it is to be in America. And I think Americans do that.
I think you probably, I didn't mind

Speaker 17 when all the Christians went nuts about Disney. They can protest.
I didn't love the Nazis.

Speaker 53 I'm not saying you can't protest.

Speaker 31 What I'm saying is if someone is out skiing with their family, if someone is driving a car, I don't think verbally assaulting them or verbally screaming at them, that's your right.

Speaker 59 I'm not saying it's not legal, but it doesn't mean it's right.

Speaker 39 And I think one of the nice things about America is that we do have a certain level of comity or respect for each other.

Speaker 41 I was at a party, an F1 party in Las Vegas, and someone showed up wearing a MAGA hat.

Speaker 39 And that individual, a woman, was kind of immediately surrounded and people started shouting at her.

Speaker 52 I did not think that was right either.

Speaker 42 They should be able to wear a MAGA hat.

Speaker 39 And I think we have to err on the side when we're out in public, err on the side of civility.

Speaker 38 You have the right to say things, but calling someone an asshole because they get out of a certain brand of car,

Speaker 61 we're just a slow burn into an erosion in everyone's quality of life.

Speaker 17 I don't know.

Speaker 17 I think it's sort of a long tradition of the United States doing this. I think you're living in a country that doesn't.
I mean,

Speaker 17 I feel like I don't love a lot of it, but this Cybertruck in particular is somewhat offensive to my eyes. And that's probably one of the reasons it compared to a lot of cars.

Speaker 17 But, you know, you've been in a, in a line, and some dick douchebases drives up in a Ferrari who obviously is just rich and it's compensating. And everyone goes

Speaker 17 like this under the breath, right?

Speaker 41 Yeah, but they don't start screaming, hey, you little dick weirdo.

Speaker 63 They just say,

Speaker 39 let him or her get his or her coffee and get about their day. I don't.

Speaker 46 True.

Speaker 32 True, true.

Speaker 17 I don't know. I think the protests

Speaker 17 in front of these Tesla showrooms are fine. I think that's the way you express your...

Speaker 47 I agree.

Speaker 64 I think there's a difference between that and yelling at people while they're going about their day.

Speaker 62 I don't, anyway.

Speaker 17 I'll stop yelling at you, Scott. Okay, fine.
You want to fine?

Speaker 32 There you go.

Speaker 30 There you go.

Speaker 45 I have to pay women to yell at me.

Speaker 17 I should do that to you. I don't know, Scott.
I like your like niceness, but I think it's okay if people want to express themselves. I think people get the message.

Speaker 17 Obviously, a lot of people are selling them because they don't like being called.

Speaker 52 Yeah, but Kara, there's places in, there's very Republican-dominated, MAGA-loving parts of this country that I think you and I can go to, go about our day, and people generally say, I don't agree with their politics.

Speaker 62 Maybe I don't even think they're, maybe I even think Kara and Scott are bad for America, but I'm going to let them get on with their day.

Speaker 17 See, you live a different life than I've been called a dyke in so many southern states. I can't even tell you.

Speaker 34 And that's wrong.

Speaker 30 And that's wrong.

Speaker 17 I am fine. I'm like, whatever, dude.
Like, and I always, I always have a line. They'll say something and I'll go, you're the alternative.
And then it tends to shut it down.

Speaker 42 i always have a line and i feel you should be able to have a certain confidence that in america you're going to be able to live your life without worrying about being verbally assaulted or treated with a lack of respect or dignity that's what that's what you do in a civil society that's what you do

Speaker 43 would be nice for all of us who aren't some people but it doesn't happen well again i don't have your lived experience but don't you generally feel that you're that you're fairly you can go about your day and i mean is that the case you really feel like in in a lot of places.

Speaker 30 I don't know if there's places I don't go.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I keep telling you this. I feel uncomfortable.
I feel like if I say something about my kids or Amanda and I express any affection in public, I'm very worried.

Speaker 17 And especially comments, it's always comments. And I,

Speaker 17 you know, I, it's something you think about in the back of your mind. And I think a lot of people, very different people, think about it all the time.
Women walking down the street at night.

Speaker 17 You know, it just is, it's a very different lived experience. But I, I, I always have a line back.
I always, you know, because I've gotten it so much. I always have, like, are you the alternative?

Speaker 47 Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 17 I have a bunch of them that I do. And it feels like it's like breathing.
You know,

Speaker 17 you endure it all the time. One time

Speaker 17 it happens when I was the kids. Who, you know, who's the, not who's the mother.
That's another one people looked. Who's the dad? They always like to do that one, which is fine when I'm just ignoring.

Speaker 39 For people driving a certain car and for people of a different sexual orientation, I think that we should shame anyone that gives us people a hard time.

Speaker 27 I don't.

Speaker 17 What about a lesbian in a cyber truck?

Speaker 28 There you go.

Speaker 24 You do that.

Speaker 52 If you'd said a lesbian in a Subaru, I would have said, well, that's redundant.

Speaker 30 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 17 See, we don't mind. We're fine with it.
I don't care.

Speaker 17 But I'm sure there are lesbians who have cyber trucks, but I'm not speaking to them anymore. I don't think so.
I don't think so. I've never seen a lesbian.
And you'd think that would be a car.

Speaker 17 No, it's a really ugly car. It's just an ugly fucking car.
Every time I see it, it offends my eyes. And I don't say anything to them.
I think, what an asshole.

Speaker 17 And they always take up and they always go first at the stop sign, these people consistently, but I don't yell asshole to them.

Speaker 17 This Tesla backlash is not going to stop. And Scott's right, it's going to extend to Starlink next.

Speaker 55 Well, the thing you got to be really fearful of is that the LGBT starts a militia and they call themselves Al Gaeda.

Speaker 17 Oh my God, it's Militia Etheridge. That's right.

Speaker 46 No, that's right. Sorry.

Speaker 30 That's right.

Speaker 17 Anyway, Algaeda, that's very funny. I like that.

Speaker 17 So this is one that's sort of in your wheelhouse. Forever 21 filed for bankruptcy this week.
The second time in six years, this time, putting the blame on fast fashion retailers.

Speaker 17 Timu and Sheehan in the court finding Forever 21 noted non-U.S. retailers selling products at drastically lower prices made it difficult to retain a core customer base.

Speaker 17 Company plans to liquidate while looking for a buyer for its business or its assets.

Speaker 17 Sheehan and Timu are facing their own struggles with Trump's tarot, though he delayed cracking down on the loophole that exempts low-cost items from getting taxed. He probably won't delay on it.

Speaker 17 I don't know. I just think Forever 21 sucks.
But what do you think here? I just think it sucks.

Speaker 30 It sucks.

Speaker 17 And the other two don't. And the other two don't,

Speaker 17 even if they have advantages in China.

Speaker 52 Look, I've said this, that

Speaker 52 a de minimis loophole that favors foreign retailers over domestic, fine.

Speaker 67 I think there's an argument that they should do away with it, create a level playing field.

Speaker 52 I get that.

Speaker 55 But Forever 21, I grew into a group of specialty retailers whose value proposition I would identify as dressing 15-year-old girls up like sluts.

Speaker 72 I just, I,

Speaker 17 that, I know that.

Speaker 19 It was an entire genre of retailers who literally like, send your 15-year-old and we'll make her look like a slut.

Speaker 69 I mean, that's essentially what the fashion was or the genre.

Speaker 46 It was, you know, anyways, I don't.

Speaker 47 I totally agree.

Speaker 17 I had, I, I would, I used to, I, I get some, even today, a lot of the girls' clothes are really questionable and the boys' clothes rock. They're like so cool.
They're like so interesting.

Speaker 17 And the girls' clothes are always like, some of them are like, ooh, no, no, no.

Speaker 49 I think it's Instagram. I think it's the algorithm sexualizing your own.

Speaker 30 I'm talking about five-year-olds.

Speaker 17 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 39 look, there is, I mean, if you look at what's happening, and I love this, that if you look at over the past 20 years, inflation-adjusted clothing prices have dropped about 50%

Speaker 26 and unit consumption has doubled.

Speaker 36 And this kind of connects back to antitrust.

Speaker 39 The clothing and apparel industry is globalized.

Speaker 66 It's relatively tariff-friendly.

Speaker 37 And it's incredibly robust, meaning there's a ton of competition.

Speaker 25 What does that mean?

Speaker 44 It means that Americans can buy more at a lower price.

Speaker 55 On an inflation-adjusted basis, the price of apparel has been cut in half.

Speaker 44 And by the way, folks, when things get cut in half in price, it means your prosperity skyrockets.

Speaker 70 We want competition. We want, and

Speaker 62 if you don't realize what tariffs are going to do, about 99%

Speaker 30 of our clothes,

Speaker 61 no, I'm sorry, 97% of our clothes are made abroad.

Speaker 17 What's a good U.S. retailer that competes with Shein and Timu?

Speaker 17 Who would you say? I mean, they're all the expensive ones, right? The gap sort of doesn't.

Speaker 52 Oh, there's no low-cost maker.

Speaker 17 There's no low-cost. There's expensive ones like Hannah Anderson Rocks, or there's all kinds of really wonderful higher-end children's clothing, for example.
I'm just thinking of children's clothing.

Speaker 17 But it's, I mean, I'm trying to think. HM, I like a lot.
I like

Speaker 17 the other one.

Speaker 34 H ⁇ M's not U.S.

Speaker 19 Yeah, no, they're not U.S. The iconic U.S.

Speaker 39 fashion specialty retailers are, in my opinion, urban outfitters.

Speaker 52 Urban and Free People are two of the hottest brands.

Speaker 62 But the majority, if not all, of their manufacturing is abroad.

Speaker 52 I remember in the, I always love an opportunity to have a professional flex.

Speaker 79 The first, one of the first consulting clients I had.

Speaker 65 One of my mentors was a guy named Warren Hellman of Hellman and Friedman.

Speaker 52 And he said, I have a great assignment for you.

Speaker 39 I was like 27, and I'd started this quote-unquote strategy for him.

Speaker 52 He said, I want you to come to Levi Strauss and Company board meetings.

Speaker 44 I don't want you to talk to anybody.

Speaker 52 I want you to listen to the entire board meeting, and then I want you to stand up and give your view.

Speaker 39 And it was me and a guy named Lee Klow from Chiaday got to do this for four board meetings.

Speaker 52 And one of the first things I said was they had back in the 90s, Levi-Strauss and Company still had domestic manufacturing.

Speaker 62 And the Haas family, who are very paternal and really civic-minded, were very committed to keeping domestic manufacturing.

Speaker 64 And the CFO got up there and I, you know, I can do math.

Speaker 52 I said, what is the cost per unit producing domestically?

Speaker 43 And it was like, I think it was 11 bucks a pair.

Speaker 52 And the cost to bring in the same quality from just across the border in Mexico, or I forget where we were, Honduras, was $3.80.

Speaker 39 And so I'm like, okay, but just to be clear, what you have decided is that you're giving people unnaturally, artificially high wages that once they're laid off, there's going to be nowhere else to go.

Speaker 35 And eventually, of course, they outsourced all of their production.

Speaker 27 We are meant to go to the lowest cost provider for more prosperity.

Speaker 52 We need to maintain a certain level of domestic production.

Speaker 52 For example, the shoe industry has these ridiculous tariffs claiming that if we go to war, we need domestic manufacture of boots, which is just stupid, right?

Speaker 35 We could spin up a factory to build boots pretty quickly.

Speaker 52 But the clothing industry is an example of an increase in prosperity because we've globalized it and we don't have massive tariffs.

Speaker 52 So, I mean, it's striking how Timu and Shein, like one out of five things purchased over the holidays were from those two companies.

Speaker 48 But Forever 21, you know, it just, like you said, it just didn't, it just couldn't compete, nor should it.

Speaker 21 I like it when nations compete for our dollars.

Speaker 17 It just sucked. Oh, I never could go in that store.
It was like terrible. And I like a cheap clothing store.
In any case, we'll see what happens with the others.

Speaker 17 But obviously, as Scott said, it's global. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question.
The question comes from Kyle. Let's listen.

Speaker 57 Hey, Scott, Kara, it's Kyle from New York, big fan of the show. I had a question about Trump's proposed federal income tax elimination for anyone making less than $150,000 a year.

Speaker 57 I've heard a lot of discussion recently about how Trump's economic policies really only benefit the wealthy and harm. the younger, less wealthy portion of the population.

Speaker 57 This policy seems like it's in response to that discussion. I'm curious from your perspective, is this a moment where credit is given or credit is due, or is this more hand-waving?

Speaker 57 Curious, your thoughts. Thanks, guys.

Speaker 33 I would like to see a tax holiday on

Speaker 52 anyone making under a certain amount or people under the age of 40, similar to what Portugal's done.

Speaker 79 The problem is, will this come at the cost of Social Security?

Speaker 44 We need to hear more.

Speaker 52 I hope it's not populist bullshit. I need to

Speaker 45 do more analysis.

Speaker 52 I think it makes a lot more sense in this ridiculous no tax on tips. The waiter gets a tax cut, but not the dishwasher.

Speaker 52 And the reality is the majority of people in the services industry don't pay any taxes anyways because they don't make enough money. But I just need to understand more about this.

Speaker 31 We'll see. Yeah.

Speaker 17 Yeah, we'll see. I mean, in concept, it's a great idea.
And, you know, again, what's really the point is rich people need to pay more taxes.

Speaker 30 Like, I don't know why that corporations.

Speaker 17 Corporations. That's really.

Speaker 53 We're paying the lowest amount of GDP as represented by the taxes since 1939.

Speaker 52 People, it's worth noting that Americans in this income range who make less than $150,000. They pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes.

Speaker 30 And soon tariffs.

Speaker 17 Yeah, so hand waving for right now. Anyway, you've got a question of your own.
Go to nymag.com/slash pivot, submit a question for the show, or call 85551-PITOT. Okay, Scott, one more quick break.

Speaker 17 We'll be back for predictions.

Speaker 82 We all have moments where we could have done better, like cutting your own hair,

Speaker 82 yikes, or forgetting sunscreen so now you look like a tomato.

Speaker 83 Ouch.

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Speaker 17 Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

Speaker 39 Look, I'm going to go off script here, and I'm going to, I don't have a prediction, but I'm especially slow today because I was up till 4 a.m.

Speaker 35 binge-watching all four episodes of what I think is so far the media property, other than the White Lotus, of course, the media property of 2025 or the media achievement.

Speaker 26 Have you seen Adolescence, Kara?

Speaker 47 No, I haven't.

Speaker 17 No, I haven't seen it at all. I've heard about it.
I've heard it's amazing and depressing and upsetting, but everyone, I've heard several people talk about it.

Speaker 21 It is really powerful.

Speaker 53 So I'm not going to give anything away here.

Speaker 52 It's a British crime drama miniseries from Jack Thorne and Stephen Graham and directed by Philip Barrentini.

Speaker 18 It's about a 13-year-old schoolboy who's arrested for the murder of a female classmate.

Speaker 56 And the interesting thing from a creative standpoint is each scene is shot in one take.

Speaker 53 And it is so powerful. It brings up social media.

Speaker 54 It's, you know, obviously

Speaker 53 violence, crime, father-son relationships, families, the impact of social media.

Speaker 52 the anxiety and depression that young people are dealing with.

Speaker 4 It's like if you wanted to explain to someone the stress that young people or adolescents are under and facing and what it means and how it ripples out in so many negative ways,

Speaker 52 it would be really hard to do it more efficiently than watching this four-part series.

Speaker 17 Can I ask you a question?

Speaker 17 Because I tend to avoid these things now, even though I've heard a lot about this show and also euphoria or any of these. There was a documentary about teens.

Speaker 17 There's all kinds of these things. I kind of avoid them because they're so upsetting to me.
How do you deal with that? Because you're writing a book on it, obviously, which comes out when?

Speaker 37 I'm moving it up.

Speaker 41 I'm turning in my manuscript early.

Speaker 39 I'm hoping that it'll come out in November.

Speaker 52 It was supposed to be streamed next year, but I feel like the moment is going to pass if I don't get it out soon.

Speaker 72 No, you should.

Speaker 17 You've been the leading.

Speaker 73 Josh Holly's writing a book on masculinity.

Speaker 18 I mean, I got to get it out.

Speaker 17 You need to dare him to a fight. But how is it watching these things? Because I think I have noticed I have tended towards happy things when I'm watching things.

Speaker 17 And Severance, because it's so good, by the way, season ender this Friday.

Speaker 17 I just, it either has to be really astonishing like severance or very happy like running point, right? I can't talk a little bit about this because you're writing a book on it. These topics are dire.

Speaker 17 How do you manage to feel hopeful watching it in this? And that's one of the reasons I avoided adolescence.

Speaker 59 Well, it's easy, Kiera.

Speaker 20 I've leaned into my anger and my depression.

Speaker 61 I mean, I'm not the person to talk to about maintaining a positive outlook.

Speaker 55 I struggle with this shit.

Speaker 39 And what you, one of the things you referenced, which is a social norm, which is kind of interesting, is that in boom times or positive times, tragedies and dramas are more popular.

Speaker 79 And then in depressing times, romantic comedies are much more popular.

Speaker 39 People want to get out of the mood they're in.

Speaker 17 Or like White Lotus, something that's like...

Speaker 52 That's just pure entertainment with some, you know, some subculture. By the way, Sam Rockwell's monologue from last week is incredible.

Speaker 32 I heard. I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 52 But this is, I mean, it talks a lot about, it talks a lot about school bullying via social media centered on incel subculture and people don't realize how powerful that is this week's post i'm writing about porn which i think is playing an unfortunately increasingly important

Speaker 69 large role in young men's lives but this if you if you want to if you've read about this stuff but don't understand it and wonder want to see how it's really impacting people on a ground level in an exceptionally compelling and gripping way.

Speaker 39 So, but you asked me how I deal with it.

Speaker 48 To be honest, Kara, I'm having trouble dealing with it.

Speaker 52 For the first time in my life, I was thinking about this the other day.

Speaker 43 I've always been able to disassociate from the news.

Speaker 39 Since this last election, I'm having trouble disassociating.

Speaker 39 I'm that guy who's that fucking downer at a dinner party that turns everything into, well, yeah, has anyone.

Speaker 17 You are posting happy things on, I've noticed that.

Speaker 55 I've got to.

Speaker 17 You really have. A lot of them are delightful, by the way.
Oh, thanks.

Speaker 64 Yeah.

Speaker 39 But yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 35 So the answer is, how do I, how do I handle this shit?

Speaker 56 The answer is not well.

Speaker 17 But this is such a powerful piece of media that it is, it's so satisfying because you feel as if you've learned and you can't i watch i watched i i turned the thing on at midnight uh and i was up till four in the morning i just couldn't there you go couldn't turn away from it all right adolescence is a recommendation and a prediction i guess okay elsewhere in the cara and scott universe this week on prof g conversation scott spoke another happy thing with dr fiona hill a senior fellow at brookings chancellor at durham university and former white house russia expert also testified during the impeachment hearings.

Speaker 17 He's a really smart person who worked for us and now does not. Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 29 The big difference between Trump and Putin is Trump is a totally one-man show. He's destroying the state.
Putin operates within the state. He's a creature of the deep state.

Speaker 29 He's not dismantling the Russian state. That was already dismantled, you know, under Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin.

Speaker 29 For Trump, he doesn't really pay any attention to any of the people around him. He uses them as emissaries and envoys, but he doesn't do his homework.
They can't actually advise him on anything.

Speaker 29 And that makes Trump very unpredictable. So I think if Putin's looking at his own crystal ball, he also can't say where this is going to go.

Speaker 17 Well, that's heartening.

Speaker 17 That's an interesting thing to say. She's brilliant, actually.
She's really brilliant. I'm glad you had her on.

Speaker 17 Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot.
Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Tuesday.

Speaker 40 Scott, read us out. Today's show was produced by Larry Aminsoy, Marcus, and Taylor Griffin.
Erniner Todd engineered this episode.

Speaker 4 Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Miss Severo, and Dan Shallan. Nisha Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

Speaker 40 Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 69 Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

Speaker 4 You can subscribe to the magazine at nmindmag.com/slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business adolescents on Netflix.

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