The Texas Abortion Ban, Joe Rogan's Covid, and the Politico Acquisition Soap Opera

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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway is taking in a performance of his favorite play, Mamma Mia.

So I'm joined by George Hahn, actor, writer, satirist, and according to the New York Times, urban raconteur.

George.

Kara.

I'm so excited to have you here.

Not as excited as I am to be here.

Well, this is this.

You are the final guest host of the Scott Galloway does whatever the fuck he's doing.

And here you are.

How are you?

So what is an urban raconteur, may I ask?

It's a very

good question.

That's what Hillary Howard was this woman, the lovely woman who wrote this piece on me in the Times.

I think it was back in April.

And that word, because I guess I had gotten some attention for some videos I'd been doing on social media, which were really just sort of like performative therapy for me.

Like New York City's streets are like a fucking hellscape.

I mean, there was like...

people and violence and like looting and fires everywhere.

And like there's just like, I mean, look at the

streets are lined with people doing things like getting ice cream,

gay ice cream, and they're getting like,

there's people everywhere like getting dinner.

I mean, it's like so scary here, you guys.

And then people just sort of enjoyed it.

And I did these morning walks, still do every day live on Instagram with the dogs.

People enjoy that.

And I'm someone who loves the city.

I love city living.

I like New York City living in particular.

And I like talking about it.

I'm a huge fan proponent of sort of the efficiency of city living.

I've always wanted this, and it's, I like, yeah, I love it.

You love it.

Okay, so that's a route.

You were just racant of things that were there, but let's talk about your TikTok struggle.

What you keep getting suspended from the platform.

What is I'm interviewing the CEO of TikTok today?

So let me know

to ask her.

All right.

So here's what's going on.

I do.

These in these satirical, what I do performatively is satire.

You know, I put on this character of these days, it's like a kind of an anti-vaxxer sometimes, not all the time.

It's only an experimental vaccine.

We don't know what's in it.

It's not proven to be effective.

I only put natural things in my body.

And the gist is I'm just sort of lampooning what I think are

very unproductive attitudes during this time.

And

I always break the fourth wall at the end, which I think makes it clear that it's satire.

Right.

So you're not an anti-vaxxer, et cetera.

No, no, no, no, no.

It's like, you know, I'm doing, it's like waiting for government or best-in-show, but at the end, I'm actually winking at you.

You do winking rather well.

Thank you.

There is a rather vibrant, anti-vax, misinformed peanut gallery on TikTok, it seems.

And I'm guessing, because I don't know specifically why my videos, some of my videos have been pulled down and I've been suspended a couple of times.

But one note I got was hate speech.

I was like, really?

So it's a rabid crowd.

And a lot of the, I get mostly good feedback, but the negative feedback.

They are reporting you then.

Yes, I'm being reported.

And the negative comments generally are anti-vax comments like, oh, typical lived hard,

soy boy, which I think is the 21st century term for FAG.

Whatever that means.

Ouch, it hurts.

Don't call me that.

Oh, my God.

And

so, yeah.

We've even called some some things, George.

Yes, we have.

Is this as gay as Pivot has gotten, by the way, host-wise?

No, it's when Scott's here, that's pretty much his gay.

So that's true.

As you know, my mother is convinced he was gay.

He's gayer than you, even though he's not gay.

Are you gay?

That was so fantastic.

Tell Lucky that I've been around.

I've hung out with Scott a couple of times now, and my gay dar does not go off at all.

But he's one.

He's the kind of straight person, straight man we need more of because he's so clearly very comfortable in his own skin and he's not threatened and he's lovely to be around and I adore him.

And he loves products.

That's really pretty much how it goes with him.

In any case,

we've got a couple of topics for banter today.

More drama over Jeopardy.

They fired executive producer Mike Richards.

This week, after two weeks, Richards stepped down from hosting duties

after the ringer, found all those, they didn't find them.

They were in plain sight, those misogynistic and anti-Semitic jokes in an old podcast.

First, they took him off as host and then they, I couldn't believe they kept him on as executive producer.

And then, you know, it's sort of like watching someone

fall down a set of stairs.

So he's first executive producer and then puts himself in the running to be the host?

That's like,

I'm the executive producer of a show, and then I'm going to give myself the lead role.

Like, wouldn't it, like,

I don't know.

Does one, is the right way to go about it to sort of like recuse yourself of your executive producer duties?

He did.

He did.

Yes.

Well, the whole job.

Yeah, he shouldn't have been executive producer at all, but they keep like removing him from things.

At this point, I kind of feel, even though

these podcasts were just stupid, really, it's just sort of Joe Rogan on a light day, essentially.

It was just interesting that

this Jeopardy thing has gotten so much wrong.

And maybe they're trying to do this.

They're trying to gin up interest in it, but it's a very popular show.

And it's weird that they're making it so...

I'm hoping they just pick someone and then move on.

But a lot of the people in it are going to be scrutinized now in a way that probably is unfair to some of them.

Well, Katie said it very well in the last episode, you know, especially when you talk to young people, watch what you put online

because you will,

you know, with this situation, what it seemed like as I sort of loosely followed the story is that.

Okay, he stepped down as host and he was going to stay on as executive producer.

And then the show or the powers that be realized, oh, this stink is not going to wash off.

This is not a good look for us.

So let's just get rid of the whole thing.

Yeah, I can't believe they didn't do it at once.

That's a very famous, that's the thing to do is once you're on one trajectory, you got to keep going the whole way.

You're supposed to, I guess, hire, was it hire slowly and fire quickly.

I guess that's the way they say it.

In any case, speaking of firing, Representative McCarthy, Kevin McCarthy, has threatened tech firms and telecom firms that comply with the January 6th Committee's request for information about phone calls during that incident.

The panel asked companies to retain information and phone records relating to the attack, especially around

some politicians up on Capitol Hill.

We know McCarthy spoke to Trump that day, and of course he's changed his story, it seems like, several times.

It was very serious at the time, and now it's not so serious.

And Jim Jordan's been dragged in.

And so he's threatening these companies.

And a lot of people feel like it's obstruction of justice, not just trying not to do this committee, but now trying to actively obstruct justice.

What do you think here?

I think this is McCarthy's reaction and anybody opposed to this, they're reacting like people who have something to hide.

Like, if there's nothing to hide, what are you guys worried about?

Why do you care?

Yep, yep.

Plain and simple.

And this was not a simple tourist visit.

All these ways they're trying to sort of like whitewash this whole thing like it was no big deal.

Like, forget about it.

That's like, you've got to be kidding me.

What do you imagine is going to happen?

They're going to turn it over.

I would assume they're going to turn over this thing.

It's not a court proceeding, precisely, but they have subpoena power and they're going to have an investigation.

Right.

And now Liz Cheney, what do you make of Liz Cheney?

She is something else.

I think she'd be an interesting candidate for 2024 from the Republican term.

Not happening.

Not happening.

Not happening.

No.

I mean, she's positioning herself to be if Trump falls apart.

That's the alternate, you know, essentially the other white meat.

But when

she

I don't, I think that she's people are so angry with her within the current Republican Party for being, for telling the truth, that it's a real problem for her, actually.

Right.

She defected.

defected yeah she can run as a democrat at this point kara i don't know what to make of this i mean i guess we'll get into it later in the show but like i every day is another head scratch and another like this new weird gqp reality

show i do think that republicans who are sort of so fully on board with trump and dare not defy anything that he launches I do think that they are literally scared for their lives.

Meaning, if they go against him, because they've cultivated this rabid following that is, let's not forget, heavily armed.

Right.

Right.

So I think they're literally terrified for their lives to

go against anything he says.

It seems like it.

It's really, this is, I'm like, good luck with the tech firms.

They don't care about you.

They don't care about you.

They have more power than Representative Kevin McCarthy, even though he thinks he does.

But he certainly is.

This guy has shifted so dramatically, as have many, like Lindsey Graham.

And we won't go into that.

But

let's just have a a little chuckle to ourselves.

But

the shift has been so vast and massive.

And it continues.

It doesn't stop.

You'd think after a while, Trump's influence would fall off.

But that's what I mean, Kara.

I think these people, like, what inspires someone to shift that hard and that rigorously is out of fear, literally, for one's life.

What else?

Either their own physical safety or their political survival.

What if if they actually believe it?

What if they actually shifted?

I've seen shift in my family.

They've become like, I honestly can't talk to some of them or don't want to.

No, yeah, I know.

It's real.

No one in my family on that level, unfortunately.

No, I do know it's real.

I get that.

But I'm also thinking about how,

God, who was it?

I've heard people who say, like, Republicans, when you get them in the green room, they say one thing, but once they're in front of a campaign, that's what happened to Ron Johnson.

Ron Johnson did the same thing.

You know, he said that Trump, that Biden was duly elected, and then he goes on camera and acts like the lunatic that it's become publicly.

In any case, media world, last thing.

Politico has sold for a billion dollars, allegedly.

It's one of these Reese Witherspoon numbers to a parent company, Axel Springer.

Well, Vice is SPAC.

It's a Reese Witherspoon.

I like Reese Witherspoon.

I'm glad she made some money.

Me too, but I love the phrase Reese Witherspoon number.

Vice is Spack is dead after its merger talks with 7GC.

Oh, no spacking for them.

That company's sort of fallen from grace grace a little bit.

So let's start with Politico.

George, can you recap the soap opera for us?

Okay, so I got the reading assignment.

I did my homework because I wanted to impress the teacher.

So like

it's Rich Boy starts a media company and then he pulls these people on board and then it's sort of like it's like dynasty.

It's like I'm imagining Diane Carroll and Joan Collins shoulder pads and everything.

I'm going to leave your media company and I'm going to go start a media company of my own.

And not only that i'm going to take some of your best writers with me yeah and then you can't do that watch me and then look at this it's like girls you're both pretty you're both pretty yeah axios you know i was may i say i was at a dinner with them um it's all britain mr alburton is the owner the rich guy i covered his father who was a banker a local banker he owned riggs bank um and this guy was fascinating he was he was very not tall, I guess we would say.

And he had chairs.

I swear to God, his chairs were lower if you were sitting across from him.

So he would seem taller.

But in any case, he was a real character, you know, real Washington, D.C., sort of local business character.

And then I had dinner with him and

Jim Vanderhey when we were thinking of what to do with Recode.

It eventually went to Vox about merging with Politico.

And I had dinner at Zuni in San Francisco.

And it was like talking to like George and Martha from Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf.

The two of them that we were talking.

And I was like, I'm not merging with these people.

They hate each other.

And afterwards, if you existed, I'd divorce you.

Exactly.

And I literally was like, first, there's the rich guy who's not as smart as the other guy, right?

And then very nice guy, but you know, just like he's, he's, his money is his most interesting aspect.

And then Jim, who's very entrepreneurial, but can be a little edgy.

And, you know, and that's sort of a nice version of it.

And it was, it was the most unpleasant dinner.

And I'm like, I'm not getting near you two.

Like, you're breaking up.

This is, this family is not going to be, I'm not joining a family that's going to be divorced in a minute and then this happens it's really it's it was really something something anyway i like axios i will give

yeah i understand all of that i um and i like axios as well um and all britain to me as i looked at this story it's like

yeah a guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth but didn't do too badly like he did something that we'll never see don jr or ivanka do like no i gotta say i wish i had sold to them now because i would have had Reese Witherspoon money.

But no, I love Vox.

Nonetheless, now I'm like, I should have endured the pain.

In any case, in any case, George, on to our first big story.

The Texas law banning abortions after six weeks went into effect yesterday.

The law prohibits abortions once cardiac activity can be detected in an embryo, which is very early.

The law also allows, this is the sort of twist, allows private citizens to sue abortion providers and anyone else who gives, who helps a woman obtain an abortion in Texas including even an Uber driver who might have given a woman a ride to the clinic the law makes no exception for rape or incest though Supreme Court refused to block the ban or has not materializing a huge threat to Roe versus Wade

so

what do you think under his eye yeah where are we in the handmaids table

blessed be the fruit Blessed be the fruit blessed be the fruit to you

not to joke about something so serious but that's No, but to joke, but to not to joke, I tweeted something yesterday, and that is this, that why men think they have something to say as much as they think they want to say about this when their contribution to the reproductive process lasts six or seven seconds, maybe eight if it's been a while.

And women for the next nine months and then, you know, feeding the baby, breastfeeding afterward, do all the heavy lifting.

All right.

This is the, this is the women's show here.

And men want a piece of this action like they've got something to say here.

It's it's dictatorial.

This is, I think Janet Jackson said it best in the first five seconds of her 1986 Smash album, Control.

Okay, this is a story about control.

Okay, right?

Like, it's about power and control.

This is full handmaid's tale.

That's one thing.

The other thing, as it relates to Roe v.

Wade, as I understand Roe v.

Wade in 1973, also Texas,

with the same issue.

The Supreme Court, as I understand it, felt that Texas's laws or whatever regarding abortion violated a woman's constitutional right to privacy.

This is about privacy.

So, what is it about this new situation that is also not a violation of privacy?

Is it the state saying, well, we can't legally do it, but you citizens, we're going to empower you.

Listen, do a little dirty work for us, violate a woman's privacy for us.

We'll give you 10K

and we'll cover your legal expenses.

Like, am I wrong?

Well, you know,

I think it's just this constant chipping away of Roe versus Way for over the years.

And it's been,

for whatever you think about what they're doing, it's rather clever way to sort of chip away and chip away and chip away Roe versus Way without overturning it because that was not possible.

And so they make it difficult for these places to operate.

They make it difficult to get there.

They make it difficult.

They make them smaller and smaller.

And so they keep continuing to sort of chip away at the ability to do this.

And now this new law, where anyone anyone in the United States can sue these abortion providers or anyone who helps them adds, you don't know who to attack.

You know, you can't, like, before it was between government and these abortion clinics.

Now anybody can sue them.

So it creates a legal liability here.

That's really, you could start to do this on a lot of things.

And from what I understand.

And what's interesting is even,

you know,

Facebook and Instagram hid posts tagging, tagged with the name of two abortion-inducing drugs on Wednesday.

Facebook said the terms were blocked by mistake.

It unlocked them.

On Instagram, some of the posts are still hidden.

And so people are nervous of being liable under this law.

This is, most people, like a lot of these laws, like in Florida, social media companies, et cetera, don't think they're going to hold up in court.

But it's really this way to violate, you know, this right established under Roe versus Wade.

And then not.

Like there's,

if you're willing to do anything, and I think a lot of people said this, that the right has come to play and the left is sort of, or the liberal side is like

letting this happen over and over again and doesn't have a lot of good tools to stop it.

The attacks on Roe v.

Wade are not new.

They're not going to stop.

I think this one

went like if they wanted to get serious traction for the long term.

Go for the haircut or the bang trim.

With this, they want to shave the whole head.

But they've been doing that.

They've been doing that.

But they want to to shave the whole head.

Yeah, a haircut here and there, a bang trim.

But this one, I think, for the long term, I would like to think anyway, it's going to be a bad look.

Well, in the long term,

for Texas and business, like look at the money.

Like, you know, as far as attracting talent, they're doubling down on

vaccine mandates.

They're doubling down on all this stuff.

They're staking out a position.

And whether you agree with that position or not, it's really rather dramatic.

They're making it, you make a dramatic choice, which I think is an interesting way to do this.

And a lot of of people don't seem to,

you know, there were going to be states where things are terrible and there's going to be states where things are not.

We're back to the 50s, essentially.

Well, voting rights, transgender issues, gay issues, they're going to come right back for that.

If you remember, you know, you and I both remember what it was like.

It was very no, but like hit them in the wallet.

You know, didn't TV and production, film production companies like pull out of Georgia essentially?

We're going to take this party elsewhere.

I guess.

I just don't, I think it's a very canny way to handle this: shipping away at things.

And I think what's difficult is that this playbook works for transgender.

They're doing the same thing around transgender issues.

They can move back to gay rights.

Everybody should be able to do what they want around gay rights.

You just can you can just see how this could shift rather dramatically in a way rights we thought we had, like Roe versus Wade or marriage rights, could be shifted.

And I, and I'm not someone who's sort of um,

you know, hair on fire worried, but I, it makes me worried when I watch these tactics.

Me too.

Me too.

Sorry, George.

I'm bumming you out.

No, but I think immediately my head goes to, okay, I hear this.

I've absorbed it.

It's making me furious.

And I just sort of have this sort of gangster reaction, like, okay, how do we fire back and really kick them in the nuts and make it hurt?

Like, I don't know.

Like, hit them in the wallet.

There's an old saying that

with breakfast, the difference between the chicken and the pig.

The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.

So think about it: bacon and eggs.

You got it?

They're committed.

That's true.

They're committed.

They are committed.

The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.

You can take that away.

You're going to steal that away.

You can put it on your rock honour.

That's my takeaway today.

They are.

They will.

I think they play us almost.

You're rather clever.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Do an impression for me.

The chicken is involved, and the pig is committed.

Mr.

Hahn, you're a rock-on-tour.

Where do you go?

I need you to put that

in.

But don't rock and tour today.

Don't go out in the bad weather.

All right, George, let's go on a quick break.

When we come back, we'll talk about Joe Rogan getting COVID and take a listener mail question.

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george we're back with our second big story all things anti-vax and anti-masks we just talked about this uh firstly podcaster joe rogan tested positive for covet 19 five days ago according to his post on instagram i got up in the morning got tested and turns out i got covid Rogan has been skeptical of vaccines and got heat for suggesting younger people may not need it and could survive any problems.

In other anti-vax news, an Instagram user known as Anti-Vax Mama has been charged with selling fake vaccine cards.

It's not unexpected.

She was selling them for $200 or for $250 more.

She said she would enter their name to the New York State Immunization System so they could pull it down digitally.

She supposedly sold about 250 of these.

If this was happening in plain view, how many people are doing this without getting caught?

Obviously, someone did get caught, a woman trying to get into Hawaii, and she's misspelled Moderna.

And then lastly, I know, Moderna.

So on brand, delicious.

It's what my grandma, Dorothy, used to call Madonna in the 1990s, was one tweet I thought was great.

Moderna.

Let's start calling her that now.

In a really unusual move, the CEO of Sweet Green, Jonathan, I think it's Neyman, I've interviewed him, is pushing salads as a cure for the pandemic, saying in this in the LinkedIn post, 78% of hospitalizations due to COVID are obese and overweight people.

This is true.

Is there an underlying problem that perhaps we're not giving enough attention to?

COVID is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

We cannot run away from it.

And now vaccine or mask will save us.

This wasn't well received, given it's coming from a guy whose business sells $15 salads, and he deleted the post.

He was making a point that is not incorrect, but it felt a little bit tone-deaf around the salad situation.

Of course, everybody should

lack of obesity causes all kinds of problems and bad eating habits, not just

making you vulnerable in COVID.

So last one, you wrote on your social media accounts, you've been posting a lot of what you call aggrieved and furious white people spinning out and popping in public, most of over vaccines and masks.

So, there's a lady at a school board meeting.

These are demonic entities, and we need to stick together.

Remember, we have authority in Christ Jesus.

You got a man in the airport.

And a man in the San Diego Board of Supervisors meeting.

Your children and your children's children will be subdicated.

So tell me, this is a lot, George.

I need you to commentate on this, you know, essentially pre-offended, aggrieved, essentially white people in this case.

So please, please go on, George.

Well,

I think part of it is what might be the Trump effect.

I mean, this is like, take away the layer, like take away the pandemic layer that I think has been brewing in the pressure cooker for about six years now, you know, And the Trump effect, Trump didn't create this.

He doesn't get credit for that.

But what he did do is kind of give permission slips for people to act out and exhibit some like bad behavior and foul ideas and bring them into broad daylight.

He validated these people.

You know, you talked to Don Lemon earlier this year on Sway, and he brought up something that still rings in my head, this idea of the death throes of white supremacy.

Like there is this frustration or a fury or even a panic that we're in, where these white people, like mostly straight white people, are seeing a threat to their place in the power chair or their perceived entitlement or birthright, and that they're no longer guaranteed this, like a birthright, like they had been, like it had been for so long.

And the inevitable change of things literally is scaring them.

Our demographics are literally changing and people are, some of these people are freaked out.

And then also throw on the pandemic, which has been an emotional, mental, psychological pressure cooker.

Yeah, it's been a fucker.

And some people are, yeah, walking around like powder kegs ready to blow and just pop.

Like it reminds me of like in Iron Man 3.

People are just sort of converted to like a bunch of people.

I love your references.

You like the Marvel universe, apparently.

I love it.

I love it.

But like for those who haven't seen it, no big spoilers, but like.

The villain has weaponized people and turned them literally into explosives and they just like infuriate, they get hot and then they explode.

And that's like literally what we're seeing.

And then maybe in some cases we may be seeing, and I'm not making it a light or a joke here, but like in some cases, maybe a little mental illness.

I don't know.

I put a big maybe stamp on that.

But still.

How do you change that, George?

I mean, it is.

I call it sometimes people are pre-offended or aggrieved, persistently aggrieved.

I'm not this mad about all the shitty gay shit that went on for me.

And I'm sure you.

I don't know what the solution is.

Like things that don't cost money, but we can like be smarter, be happier, be funnier, be more clever, be a bigger blast on the dance floor, be better in bed.

I don't know.

Is Is that the solution to just sort of like be that example?

Be the kind of person that others might want to be attraction, not promotion, instead of shoving it in people's faces.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I feel like what a lot of them are like, be nicer.

I'd be nicer, be coddling.

I am so out of coddling.

I am so out of coddling.

And it does remind me of many years ago.

What?

Oh, coddling?

Are you a coddler or not?

No, not coddling is, I think, what part of what got me in trouble on TikTok.

Right, right.

It's true.

I just feel like it reminds me of when years ago, ago, my mom bought different presents for someone I was dating versus my brothers.

And I literally, I, I got infuriated.

I know it's a small thing, but I was, it was like one of those every week, that kind of thing.

And, um, and I, at one point, I was like, I, you know, I, she was nice to me about something.

And, and she said, look, I was nice.

And I said, that's not, you know, that's the lowest bar you could have, you know, for.

for me.

Like being nice is not something else.

And I eventually got around to the idea that I don't negotiate with terrorists.

Like, you know what I mean?

I don't like, this is not something.

And some of this stuff

feels like,

it feels like terrorism.

It's, you know, I have a small daughter, as you know, and it makes me nervous, like, why someone would be wanting to do this.

And I get the argument over masks and the controversy over, you know, having to take a vaccination, but

I understand it.

But at some point, really,

I do a little bit, but I don't because we have to do it everywhere else.

So it's, there's no, do you have a solution, George?

I need a solution.

Right, Right.

That's what I mean.

I really do.

You're bumming me out today.

No, all right.

Here, like, oh, God, tough, tall order.

I got, I can lift it.

Lift, Kara.

Lift, Kara.

I gave up.

I gave up long ago relying on getting that kind of comfort from other people.

I gave up trying, like I said to my niece when she went to college and she graduated.

She did super well.

She went to Boston University, got amazing grades, was a superstar on her rowing team.

She's my goddaughter.

And now she's kicking ass out in L.A.

in real estate.

So I said to her, do not ever compromise what you're good at, who you are for the sake of someone else's comfort.

Fuck them.

You know, like, I'm not, I'm not squeezed.

I'm not going to like.

compromise or put a part of myself on the shelf or like get some wrong answers on purpose so that someone else feels better smarter or make them feel less than or something And I just, I kind of don't care how anybody feels about that.

Does that make any sense?

Well, except that it has political power.

Like, how long is it going to last?

When is it going to?

I had an argument with someone when they were like,

none of the elites come out to the Midwest.

I'm like, I don't see you all here in San Francisco in the Castro with me and the naked guys.

You're not trying to understand my life.

By the way, the naked guys in my neighborhood, they're back.

I'm so happy to see them.

That was one moment.

Every time I see them, I'm happy about

things.

When I see them walking around the Castro, completely naked.

Greg Proups, one of my favorite comics, who's out there a lot, had my best joke about that.

He's like, you know, the naked guys, it's never a bunch of people.

These guys are in good shape.

They're always these guys who have a body like...

Yeah, they are.

Oh, they are.

Because like he always said that they always have a body like that, like that map of Earth when it was one continent.

No, don't be a lookus.

Don't be a gay lookist.

They look fantastic, by the way.

FYI.

Right now, you can't be totally naked in San Francisco.

You have to wear something around your little altogether.

And so they wear little gold, like bags, really quite lovely.

But is it attached by string?

Like, is there anything around the waist?

Or is this?

I don't know.

I didn't get close enough to look.

I didn't, I don't know.

George, I'm not, I'm not taking a moment to stare at you.

In any case, a lot of these things, you know, you have someone like Rogan, who is, who is obviously very talented in many ways and very appealing to a lot of people doing this.

And I think he truly believes it.

I don't, I, I don't know what, you know, there's things I like about him, and then there's things that are just appalling.

Um, how do you get someone like that?

I guess he's just not.

He's just going to just do this because he wants to.

You're not.

I don't think.

Like, you know, Scott has brought this up when you give someone, when you tell a young man that he's Jesus, he'll tend to believe you.

Like,

I think Rogan is kind of getting a little bit of a messiah complex, I wonder.

Yeah.

Even he has said, don't take me seriously when it comes to certain things.

And isn't the jury out whether he's been vaccinated?

I don't know.

I just don't know.

I think the jury's out.

And also,

his followers, who will like, are very loyal, as we know, and will kind of do and believe anything he says and does and believes.

Another superhero reference, with great power comes great responsibility.

I think he can be a little flippant with it and irresponsible.

I don't know.

I know that in my own, you know, microscopic climb, as it were, over the last year, I find myself thinking a little bit more before I hit tweet.

You know, like, got to be careful.

The audience is bigger.

Right.

And so

Rogan's not always been my cup of dewormer, but

he does have his following.

And

don't call it dewormer.

I just got lectured by someone.

Don't call it dewormer.

It's used in humans.

It's like not much.

No, it isn't.

My brother's a doctor.

He said it's not.

I know it is.

Invermectin is not designed for humans.

What?

Excuse me?

I understand.

There's a lot.

If you follow certain people, they go on and on and on about it, but I'm not talking about the dewormer.

Just get the fucking vaccine.

Yeah, get the, you know, yeah, and then watch me get in more trouble on TikTok for trying to say the same thing.

But with Rogan, as with Trump, you know, I saw his TikTok or his rather his Instagram video, and he's gotten the best of medical care and he's gotten this cocktail, that cocktail.

It's like, okay, great, but you're a millionaire.

He's a rich guy who has access to things that the average person will not have.

So it's not a fair comparison for like a kid in his college dorm listening to Rogan saying, like, oh, I'm going to be fine too.

Buddy, you don't got Joe's money.

So no, you don't have it.

You do not have, you don't have regenerate the ability to get it.

Actually, these infusions cost quite a lot, and which is really compared to the vaccine, which is very inexpensive.

Anyway, George, we're going to pivot to a listener question.

Roll the tape.

You've got, you've got.

I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman.

You've got mail.

Bonjour, quiet.

My name is Bertrand.

I live in the border between France, Belgian, and Albania.

So very difficult for you to identify my accent.

What is it like to work with such a formidable genius

that is the hound, that is the dog, the expression of masculinity is just strong like both.

Love this show.

Again, this is Betrande.

Definitely Betrande.

Big fan.

Thank you, Scott.

Scott, get back in here.

He's in the other room.

No.

He's in the other room.

That was last night.

And he managed to get

those FC chaps off and get over here.

That's not an accent.

He's trying to talk through a gag ball.

Scott, knock it off.

Water later.

What's your safe word, George?

The safe word is maybe.

Oh, Scott, we miss you so much.

But seriously, what's it like to wear with a jug?

What do you, what you guys have actually met in person?

You and I have not met in person.

What, what was that like?

What was that like?

I honestly, Kara, I was actually nervous the first time I met Scott.

And I thought, like, what's this going to be like?

Because we would joke on Twitter, like, my future ex-boyfriend.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How's that going to fly in person?

I have a lot of tension.

I have a lot of sexual tension.

Lots of sexual tension.

Like, is he going to

climb all over me?

me is it gonna be weird no i scott and i i feel a very nice rapport with him i think he's genuinely a very smart guy i know he's talked about like maybe not doing media after a few more years but you know speaking of joe rogan who's got this influence over young male minds I think Scott has the same kind of jujus, if you will, but in a much more positive way.

You know, Scott to me is someone who is, he's got the money and he knows how to make the money.

So that's impressive.

There's the honey that draws these bees in.

And then he will talk about things that relate to the soul and his humanity.

You know, you get him to talk about his mother and he gets emotional.

This is like, this is a guy who cares.

And that's very touching to me.

He's got a depth.

And I'm not just blowing smoke here in his absence or whatever, but that's genuinely how I really feel about him.

I think he's a good egg.

There's a lot there.

There's a lot there.

We're being out of there.

There really is.

There is a lot there.

And it's really, people always ask me.

It's interesting being back in San Francisco because we have a lot of fans here too and i haven't been here in two years and people literally are like what's he like what's he actually like and it was really you know or i like when you stick it to him and this and that and i was like and they asked me what surprises you i said he's actually a really lovely man yes lovely man also an asshole but still yeah

yeah anyway um scott thank you for your

question that was a fun question want to hear more if you've got questions you're curious about go to nymag.com slash pivot and submit it for the show.

All right, George, one more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions.

This month on Explain It To Me, we're talking about all things wellness.

We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well.

Collagen smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes and fitness trackers.

But what does it actually mean to be well?

Why do we want that so badly?

And is all this money really making us healthier and happier?

That's this month on Explain It to Me, presented by Pure Leaf.

Charlie Sheen is an icon of decadence.

I lit the fuse and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be.

He's going the distance.

He was the highest paid TV star of all time.

When it started to change, it was quick.

He kept saying, no, no, no, I'm in the hospital now, but next week I'll be ready for the show.

Now, Charlie's sober.

He's going to tell you the truth.

How do I present this with any class?

I think we're past that, Charlie.

We're past that, yeah.

Somebody call action.

Yeah, aka Charlie Sheen, only on Netflix, September 10th.

Okay, George, this is a portion of the show where you have to seem very smart.

I want a real prediction.

Give us this week's prediction of something you think is going to happen.

The mullet will make a comeback.

No.

It never left.

It never left.

Good.

Joan Jet forever.

I've been to, since the movie theaters opened back up, I've been to the movie theater four times.

And I think this sort of

I listened to every almost everything YouTube.

I saw A Quiet Place 2.

I saw Black Widow.

I saw

the new Matt Damon situation.

Yeah.

And

yep.

And I saw, oh God, I saw Candyman.

I don't know.

I'm still, which was not, I, I like horror when it's done well.

And you literally risked COVID for Candyman?

Okay.

All right.

All right.

Go ahead.

And by the way, they weren't, they weren't checking vaccinations when I went into the theater.

No.

Yeah.

But that doesn't go into effect, I guess.

This is a tough thing for businesses.

But here's the thing.

They haven't heard San Francisco.

They do check them.

Okay.

Go ahead.

But I do like going to the theater.

And also, I think people are going to want to dress up again and get out of like the clothes that adults are wearing in Wally or the humans are wearing in Wally because that's what everybody's dressed like.

I don't think my prediction is that I don't think I think the 25 screen multiplex, the sun is setting real hard on that.

You talked to your guy from Arclight.

No, no, it was Alamo Draft House.

Pardon me.

I knew that.

Alamo Draft House.

Yes.

I think we're going to have a nice balance.

Yes, I love streaming at home.

I've tricked out my own system here with Masonos surround and my my nice screen TV.

But at the same time, I got to get out.

You know, I'm not,

and I like going to the movies.

I like movies and I like the smaller scale ones.

I really look forward to going to the movies.

What you're saying, do you think they'll be smaller or what do you, the sun has set or hasn't it set?

I think the sun has set on the big multi-screen multiplexes.

Just not worth it.

Just not worth it.

Yeah.

Like I used to live in Hell's Kitchen and our nearest theater or one of them was the AMC 25 on 42nd Street, which you dare never went near on a weekend.

That

there's no way that that's going to be able to survive.

I think you guys talked about this when you talked

about

Alamo Draft House.

Like when I went to go see, I had only seen the movie Network, for example, like at home by myself.

And then I went to go see a screening of it down in Houston, got a film for him

with an audience.

It was a much different experience.

Same thing happened to me when I saw a 70 millimeter restored print of Vertigo at the Siegfeld.

Glorious.

You cannot have that at home.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

And also, for those of us who have yet to pair off, we got to get out of the house.

Why aren't you pair off, George?

You seem like a very attractive man.

Oh, you're sweet.

But Grinder has been taken over by closeted married men and the clergy, so I need other options.

George, I'll think of something.

You know, I'm very many married.

I'm a many-married person.

yes indeed and i keep

super you seem super happy and in such a great place my wife is great my wife is amazing i love watching i love how you talk about her and the golden child and how you tweet it's just it sounds so delicious

lovely she really she's wonderful my wife is wonderful just so so much better than me i have to say um in so many i don't understand it in any way because you know i'm not getting prettier um but uh but i've been lucky in that regard i've been very lucky i think you're fantastic Stop telling yourself that.

George, I appreciate it.

That's good.

I like your prediction.

I think you're right.

I do think it's going to be, as you know, I've been angering.

The reason Tim Lee came on Sway was because he disagreed with the column I wrote saying just this thing.

But I do, I agree.

It has to make.

I was thinking the other day of going, taking my son here in San Francisco to the movies.

And then I just was like, there's nothing good enough.

If it was Bond, maybe.

As you know, you and I have a great love of Bond.

If it's Free Guy, I love Ryan Reynolds, but not that much, right?

I don't like him that much to like, do I really want to risk something, you know, the possibility, not that I think I'm going to get COVID.

I'm not sort of one of those people, but I also.

Also note that, like, all, all kidding aside, like, if I were coupled off and I had someone to like hang out with and spend my nights with,

I might have a different attitude.

But I, single guy who does a lot of things alone, like doing things like that just to get out

of my cocoon.

Because left to my own devices, you know, I can be a big isolator and that's not good for anybody.

Yeah, you're the the original social distancer.

Anyway,

George, thank you so much.

Are you going to get on the view?

Is that going to happen?

Is that a serious thing?

Are you just making it?

It is a joke.

And then people were, people, it got traction without any help from me.

And I loved what you and Stephanie, Stephanie, my other favorite media dominatrix.

Yeah, she is a dog.

She really is.

She's got whips and everything.

So anyway, not me.

She slapped me so hard one night about something that I had tweeted in like one of my videos.

Why do I think she could have actually done that physically?

But go ahead, keep going.

I believe she would have if she were in front of me.

But like I had tweeted something that Megan Kelly had spun out.

It had to deal with like Chris Cuomo tweeted it and then Megan Kelly caught wind of it and then it got ugly.

Yeah.

As do many things.

Stephanie pulled me aside.

She had pulled me aside in the private messages and just gave me like a, yeah, a verbal slapping.

She's like, listen.

Yeah.

And I was like, she's right.

Yeah.

You'd be good on the view.

Well, they need a conservative.

I think there there was, was a rumor Condi Rice is going on it.

There's all these rumors of who's going to be the

conservative person.

I find it a little bit reductive that this is the way you have to do it.

Like one, one wrestler who wears all black, one wrestler who wears all white.

I find that kind of strange and reductive, but nonetheless, you would be good.

I do think it's reductive.

I guess that I agree, and thank you for your vote of confidence.

And I think I would have a lot of fun with it.

I do think I'd be very good.

I think it's right for a shake-up, probably.

I'm not calling the shots.

If I were in the room where decisions were made, I would say, listen, let's at least try something new.

But so far, I've not even been invited to have a conversation.

Oh, let me see what I can do.

Anyway, thank you, George.

You can check out everything George is working on at georgehan.com.

That's H-A-H-N.

The link is in our show notes.

And as always, you can submit a question to the show at nymag.com slash pivot.

And we'll only have one episode next week because of the holiday.

And guess who's going to be back?

Scott, Galloway, he's back.

Daddy's home.

Daddy's home.

Daddy's home.

I like saying that.

He is kind of a daddy.

Anyway, enjoy the long weekend, everyone.

George, I want you to read us out and I wanted you to do it with flair.

I'll do it with pleasure.

Since German companies are buying up all these media companies, I'll read it in German.

Oh, no.

Thank you, Sergeant.

We want to buy your blog.

Today's show was produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin.

Ernie Indradott engineered this episode.

Make sure you're subscribed to the show on Apple Podcasts.

Or if you're an Android user, check us out on Spotify or frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from Fox Media.

We'll be back next Friday for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Under his eye,

fantastic.

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