Is this the year big tech gets regulated? (Probably not.)

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway coming to you from our nation's capital today, Kara.

Are you?

What were you doing there?

I had a breakfast with about a dozen congressmen and congresswomen and a few senators.

And then I met with another senator to talk about big tech.

Let's hear about what happened.

Why were they all together for a breakfast?

I just was in Washington, now I'm in New York City, but what was the breakfast about?

So there's a breakfast that's hosted by the Aspen Institute, and it's every, where are we, Thursday morning for the last, I guess, 30 years where they bring in a speaker on a topic of interest, and you speak for 15 minutes and then they throw questions at you, and it's actually a really nice environment, and this was all about big.

And what was your message?

What was your message to these congresspeople?

Well, you know my message.

My message is that these organizations have become invasive species.

They are Sith Lords who started out benign and then turned to the dark side of the force.

And unless

we arm you, our representatives, with insight and data and the backbone and wherewithal to break up what have become invasive species, that we're going to continue to kill innovation in our country, our tax base is going to erode, the middle class is going to continue to experience flat wages, that

the government is here to serve the governed, not the governors, and these companies have become the governors.

So the Sith Lords, the Sith Lords.

That's really interesting.

I just just had Shoshana Zuboff on talking about this.

She has a book called Surveillance Capitalism, where she has exactly the same messages,

the hijacking of everything by these companies and for more dire, even more dire predictions from her in terms of what's going to happen.

Do they hear you?

Because, you know, I've been banging this drum for a while, too.

So do they hear your messaging?

Well, I'm curious to get your take.

My take, and I'm new to Washington.

I've been here 10 times in my life and five times in the last month.

They hear you, they agree, they nod their head, and they are totally befuddled as to what to do about it.

Because,

you know, the scary thing is, I think they're outgunned.

One, they're outgunned by complexity.

These are difficult problems to understand.

Only 7% of our electorate has a background in technology or engineering.

So they're just sort of intimidated by the subject material.

And two,

Amazon has 88 full-time lobbyists in D.C., and you've written about this.

The one area of each of the big tech organizations' spending that's increased faster than anything, increased faster than RD hiring hiring is lobbying.

So when the

legislation that bans sex trafficking and puts platforms like Backpage out of business and gets a 97 to 1 vote in favor, you think, well, that's bipartisan.

That should work.

There's now an organization challenging that and trying to take it to the Supreme Court, worried that any

inhibition of what a platform could do could be bad for them.

And that organization is a front for Google.

So even when it comes to sex trafficking, Google is willing to spend spend a lot of money to fight it because it's a lot of people who are not going to be able to do it.

Because it's the point.

It's the point, Scott.

It's really astonishing how these people have changed.

Their love of money and power is so profound, and they pretend they don't have it.

It's really quite fascinating.

And they do think it's being better for the world.

They do think they're being better for the world.

And in fact, they're eroding democracy and all parts of it

at a quantumly fast rate.

I'm so hopped up right now after talking to Shoshana Zuboff because I think she's a longtime studier of these issues.

And you start to see it, and we sort of are captive of it and are giving over information in ways that

we don't even realize.

And for free stuff, for sure, but it's also the people that I think at their heart, people do think about this.

It's just not a sexy political campaign topic.

You can't say, hey, I'm going to save your data for you.

Like, healthcare is the things that people care about and things like that.

But this is in a lot of ways more damaging to our, from the bottom that we don't have control and we get manipulated.

And from the top, that we don't,

we're made stupid by this but if we're not smart enough to participate we're we're on the outside of it so it's a really difficult um thing to sell i think from these political point of view

but you brought up a key point and wire did some fantastic reporting on this and that is the traditional argument against the breakup of these guys is that because antitrust is based on consumer harm and the primary metric for determining consumer harm or lack thereof is price and they say well amazon's brought down prices and google and facebook are free for their users but they're looking at it the wrong way.

Because think about the Facebook apps.

Have they improved dramatically?

Are they changed from a consumer standpoint over the last two or three years?

I would argue not a heck of a lot.

But think about the price we're starting to pay around these things.

Think about the price of privacy.

Think about the price we're paying as parents with teen depression.

Think about the price we're paying as citizens that our elections have potentially been contaminated.

Think about the increased price we're paying and not only a violation of our privacy, but the fact, the fear and anxiety that these platforms might be weaponized.

So I would argue, and the argument I made to our representatives this morning, is that the price of these organizations, the price of this product has skyrocketed.

And the reason that

the reason that prices have skyrocketed is because they can increase these prices because they're monopolies.

We just don't see it as pricing in the traditional sense.

And also that the end consumer for Google and Facebook is PNG and Ford.

And look at the pricing to buy keywords or things on Facebook.

So

I find that our elected representatives, and I'm naive, I'm not jaded yet, I find they're earnest, smart, thoughtful people who want to do the right thing.

And I just worry, Kara, I worry that they're outgunned.

Right.

I think so too.

But, you know, we push back cigarette manufacturing.

Remember when they were ascendant or

chemical?

You know, they come back, of course, when the Trump administration, they're rolling back all kinds of, you know, pollution standards and stuff, but they always come back.

The forces of retrograde in this country are so strong and so irritating that we can't stop them.

But I do think, you know, it's really interesting that both Senator Klobuchar and Senator Warren have, when they announced their candidacies for president, whether they win or not, antitrust was one of them.

And a lot of them are hostile, especially the Democrat, Democratic candidates.

And Trump is hostile in a weird way to tech, but not in any effective way.

He just sort of rails on on Twitter, all places.

But all of them have some

questions about tech for sure.

I don't know if they'll do anything about it, but they certainly are saying things, especially Klobuchar in her announcement this weekend.

What did you think of her announcement?

I thought it was interesting from an imagery standpoint, her and the snow.

I love the snow.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool.

I thought she was interesting.

I mean, it was all like, of course, there were all these interesting stories all of a sudden that popped up about, you know, coffee cup throwing, but whatever.

You know what the worst flex in her speech, though?

She's like trying to rile everybody for all the Americans that want liberty,

for all the people that want their children to have a better life, for all the seniors that want access to more affordable prescription medication.

Oh my God, that was the worst flex in the world.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, she's an interesting candidate.

I think she's, you know, she's

one of the, I think the worst stories that came out was that the Republicans love her.

Like, and you're like, no, no, that's bad for the, you know, the Ocasio wing of the Democratic Party.

So that was an interesting, that'll be an interesting fight between the left and the middle.

the left-ish, the left side and the sort of middle side of the Democratic Party.

But I think they all do stand, like Ocasio and others do are sort of anti-tech in a really interesting way

and are bringing up very much needed criticisms.

And even Trump does, but he doesn't, there's no follow-through on anything.

He has a lizard sense of the problem, I think, in many ways.

So we'll see.

We'll see bipartisanship.

So you did a bonus hot take on this, but I think we're done with Bezos and his penis.

I'm just trying to get your attention.

I'm just flirting with people without you, trying to get your attention.

Kara, as Carly Simon said, don't you know I'm beautiful to strangers?

Don't you know?

Notice, Carly.

I think where are we with Bezos and the penis situation?

I think we'll see how it happens, like where it goes, right?

Okay.

So to speak.

This is this stuff.

Well, first off, I think that we need to acknowledge that the problem isn't Jeff Bezos sending out his junk.

It's that the rest of us in technology have not been sending out pictures of our junk.

So I just want to warn you now.

My Christmas card.

My Christmas card, Kara, is from Big Ed and the Twins.

It's coming your way in the summer.

No, no.

That's the problem.

That's the problem.

Absolutely.

Sex as pig.

I will have you arrested.

There you go.

All right.

But we're thinking about this thing,

whether he got it, whether it was a brother-in-law, whether it was this, it still was good that he wrote it up.

And obviously, it was a fantastic skit on SNL with Meet the Press and fake the Chuck Todd and the disgusting of the penis.

It was very, very funny.

I know normally high-minded journalists wouldn't talk about something like this, but it does involve the richest man in America and the President of the United States.

So, Jeff Bezos's penis.

What do you think it's going to look like?

Yeah, I'm going to jump right in, Chuck.

Now, when I hear billionaire's penis, I immediately think small potatoes.

You know, it's like they say, if it's small and looks funny, you better have the money, honey.

I find this whole Bezos thing just

uber fascinating on a bunch of levels.

And I think there's two interesting things.

So,

Kara, name the most famous female CEO.

Like, who comes to mind?

Cheryl Sambor.

Cheryl Sambor.

Okay, Cheryl Sambert.

CEO.

CEO.

She's not a CEO.

Probably.

Not a lot of them, right?

Jenny Ramati, I guess.

Not famous, but Indra Nui.

Okay, let's take those two.

I won't even use their name.

What if one of these individuals had been sending pictures of their genitalia out to their boyfriend with four kids and married?

Would that woman have survived that?

Would she?

No, of course.

Are you kidding?

She'd be in the stock.

She'd be in the stock in the main square, and people would be throwing garbage at her.

It would be a very different situation.

So

there's a weird...

We've noticed sexism in our society.

How nice is that?

Just catching up.

Just catching up.

Would you like to know about how gay people have been mistreated or

people like the lesson on that one?

7,000 years later.

By the way, Fox is going after you, and I've decided I am no longer going on Tucker Carlson.

You know why, Kara?

Because I've decided I am of Kara.

They called you a handmaiden.

I am of Kara.

I am with you.

I will jump in front of that plastic bullet called the Tucker weapon.

I am willing.

No, Tucker Carlson's producer, do not call me.

I am of Cara.

What a twit he is, isn't he?

He's ridiculous.

If he was factual, it would be all right.

You know what I mean?

Like, he can say a lot of things about me, but it's all not factual.

The second part is, like, the most elite person, he's just a ridiculous clown.

He's just a ridiculous.

I knew I'd get you going.

Clown.

I knew I'd get you going.

He's just awful.

He's awful.

You know, I tape a little bit right near in Washington, and I always take pictures saying, I'm in the building, Tucker.

I'm around.

I'm here.

I think he has a crush on me.

That's what I think.

I've decided.

He's a crush on me.

Okay, so speaking of dicks, back to Bezos.

No, no, no.

No, HQ2.

I don't want to talk about PZ2.

I want to talk about HQ2.

Something very interesting.

HQ2, is it going to happen?

Something very interesting.

Are they going to, so to speak, get it up?

Are they going to get that headquarters up?

I'm on a roll.

Come on.

I'm on a roll.

Feel me on this.

The other thing that's really interesting.

HQ2.

I promise I'll get there.

The other thing that's really interesting is he said that.

You have only a few minutes.

He said that owning the Washington Post was a complexifier.

It's not a complexifier.

It's a save as acifier because the thing I have noticed about this is that

Bezos is considered a responsible steward for the Washington Post.

There is a reservoir of goodwill towards him from journalists, and every journalist has sided with him.

They see him as a hero.

I can't help but feel like, is this guy really a hero?

I appreciate the fact he's kicking back.

He's like the guy who stole a car, and then the DA tried to get him to cop to a murder deal, and

the criminal said, you know what?

I'm not going to take this abuse, and now this person is a hero.

But let's remember this guy really screwed up.

He's a mixed bag with journalists.

He's a mixed bag with journalists.

You can be that.

You can do that.

That's okay.

I don't love him for the HQ stew stuff.

I don't love him for

the information grab.

You guys are slobbering over Jeff Bezos right now.

No, not at all.

No, no, no, no.

I think the gimmies for

the correct thing.

I'm totally on the Ocasio side on this one.

I don't know.

100%.

Okay, so you want to talk about that?

We can have two arguments in our head, like and dislike someone at the same time.

You go first.

What do you think is going to happen?

HQ2.

I think it's in danger.

I think it's possibly in danger.

Unless Amazon gives.

And Amazon doesn't like to give.

They don't have to give.

With the Staten Islands offering up Staten Island and stuff like that.

What do you think?

So

I don't know because I don't feel like I'm in touch with New York politics.

I just think Andrew Cuomo is the worst poker player ever.

I genuinely believe that we forget these companies are run by humans.

Their algorithms drive them, but they're run by humans.

And I believe that Jeff Bezos, at 55 years old, worth $150 billion, wants to be within a helicopter ride of the Disneyland for a billionaire who's 55, and that is New York City.

And so I think he's going to figure out a way to maintain momentum in his midlife crisis by having HQ-2A be somewhere within a helicopter ride or,

a town car ride of Manhattan.

About Hoboken.

Hoboken, Staten Island.

He could do a lot.

He wants to be.

It's like if I told my eight-year-old we can live anywhere, he would say, oh, great, we can live anywhere as long as it's within riding distance or a bike ride of Universal Studios.

He's obsessed with Universal.

I think a 55-year-old single man wants to be within spitting distance of Manhattan.

So I think they're going to figure it out.

All right.

All right.

Okay, he seems more like a Brooklyn character to me.

Anyway, when we get back, we are going to talk more about these things.

When we get back, we're going to take a quick break.

We're going to be talking about fails and wins and some predictions.

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Okay, we're back with Scott Gallery, who's down in D.C.

lobbying our various representatives, and I'm in New York City.

Wins and fails this week.

We're here to do that.

I would say I'm going to go up first because I think the win was hashtag Cara Jack, and yet it was also a fail.

So

we can do a rundown of what I learned from him, which was very little, but it was really interesting.

And I don't know if you paid attention to it, but much of the internet did.

And

it was a goat rodeo.

It was a cluster fuck.

It was fascinating.

So tell me what you think of Cara Jack.

So you call it it a a win-loss or a win-lose yeah so i yeah i don't i think i won yeah i like i you know i i don't know there were some things he said and there were a lot of insights when i kept saying be specific and he wasn't i think people understood the difficulties of our job um and uh and i think he did say a few things including i think something that a lot of people were sort of disturbed by which was picking elon musk as his favorite Twitter personality, which I think was an interesting choice, but other people felt it was exactly indicative of the problems because such you know, Elon has such a complex history on Twitter, both bad and good.

So what do you think?

I'd love to know your thoughts.

So you call it a win-lose, and I think you're half right.

I thought it was awful, and I think that it was like watching C-SPAN in Chinese.

It was both boring yet confusing.

I just didn't,

I found the whole thing ridiculous.

I tuned in because I like you, and I was interested to see what he might say.

But the problem is these people realize that there's no defense for what they're doing.

So they employ communications tactics like, I'll testify in front of Congress as long as I can play beat the clock and say a bunch of gibberish for five minutes and then go on to the next one.

There's a lot of gibberish going on.

And he did, quite frankly, I think he played us, and I'll say us, because when you give him questions via Twitter, he can say bullshit like, our policy on hate speech has evolved.

What the fuck does that mean?

Yes.

And you would try and press him.

And he couldn't be pressed because he wasn't sitting across the desk for you.

So

to me, it is obscene that an individual who is responsible for the algorithms that create some of the most important or influential media in the world is shit scared of the media and won't come on your show.

So Jack,

he does not get a pass.

Come on the show.

He said he wants to branch out.

You are the branch.

Come on the show.

I can't hijack him, for goodness sake.

But the thing is,

I don't totally agree.

I think there was one, people saw the lack of transparency.

One, two, they saw that a lot of people understood the bullshit.

It was talked about a lot, how he did that.

Some people had very funny versions of it.

Felix Salmon had a really funny tweet and stuff like that.

But you're right.

They do, they obfuscate and they find ways to get around it.

And I think the medium, one of the things that was very indicative was that the CEO of Twitter didn't know how to use Twitter or couldn't use Twitter or couldn't, it wasn't able to have a conversation.

And their whole focus focus is conversations.

And so I think that was, I think that's to me, you know, for example, in the Mark Zuckerberg podcast, when he couldn't answer the question of how he felt about the deaths in Myanmar and India, it indicated something.

It was a very big moment for people to go, oh, he can't articulate it.

And I think in those white space moments, you get just as much information about these people and little tiny bits of it.

And I get that it's, it's, I get they're obfuscating.

I get they're trying to run away from real encounters with real people and real journalists, but they do, they can't, they don't win.

I don't think that was a win for him at all, though you might know because I don't know.

It was reminiscent of Cheryl Sandberg's talk at DLD, and that is by the end of it, everybody was bored yet angry.

And it just, it didn't do him, he didn't do himself any favor.

So if you want to be, if you want to be CEO of a large media company and you want to pretend to take responsibility, then, you know, then

stiffen up, put on a tie, bring the nose ring and the beard down and talk to Kara and meet of Kara.

Meet of Kara.

Meet her.

Of Kara.

Meet her handmaid.

There are fewer and fewer people who want to meet with me, but that's okay.

I don't care.

I still have some power.

So, but I think it is interesting.

You know, we have done a lot of interviews, and he does show up compared to many people.

And actually, one of the things, the only thing that I thought was relatively, he's not easily offended.

A lot of these other people I have to deal with, they're offense at my mean questions.

And he is not someone who gets offended.

And that's a pleasure, I have to say, compared to other people.

He's a professional in that manner.

I don't think that's going to give him an ad.

I don't think that's a.

Listen, it's just a small.

I think he's actually very offended.

I just think he has a lot of Botox, and you can't register his emotions as well.

You can't see.

You couldn't tell.

He has that nice beard going on.

I don't think you can.

All right, moving on to another fail.

This Esquire magazine cover story profiling the white American boy in the age of Trump during Black History Month.

I had a little few tweets about this.

Any thoughts?

You know, Esquire, let's go grab a high ball with Angie Dickinson after the Johnny Show.

It's just, why do we care?

I like, I think Esquire has done some good work.

I actually like the people there.

I think they've done an amazing job staying relevant, but it's literally like, let's go buy a Cadillac.

I mean, I love, I got to admit, I love Esquire because I like the old school stuff.

But why does Kara Swisher care what Esquire puts on its cover?

Because

it's ridiculous.

They're just like, what I didn't like, I don't like is like how they are like, oh my God, we're being this, one of this editors' DMs was, he DM'd, he publicly did a DM, which is like, shows you exactly how much they love, you know, you're right, Angie Dickinson is right.

Um, what is this internet thing?

Um, and it just was like this typical, like, they just knew, like, can you just like have just some awareness of the modern age?

That's just a tiny bit.

Maybe you start with a black kid on the cover of the first one, like, or whatever, just something different.

And they just, they wanted to be controversial and then they didn't want the controversy, which is irritating.

If you're going to go out there, you know, all these whining journalists about how they're attacked, I'm just like, please, like, I have to deal with Tucker Carlson for fuck's sake.

Like, just suck it up.

Like, suck up

the criticism and expect it when you do something like that.

That's my feeling.

I think I have more empathy for that kind of tone-deaf stupidity that constantly emerges from white male heterosexuals.

Keep in mind, Kara, and I hope this makes you more patient with me.

When I first moved to Laguna,

before my parents got divorced, hold me.

But anyways, before they split up, we got this thing called cable TV.

And you know what I watch four times a day, two hours a day for an eight-year-old developing male mind?

Literally, this is not dreaming.

I dream of Genie.

That's what I was raised on.

Yes, master, Genie, get to your bottle.

So I deserve some forgiveness.

I've come a long way.

You get none.

I had to have no problem.

Send my sensitivity training with the Partridge family.

All right, whatever.

Whatever.

You know, I had a long discussion about Ben Shapiro with my 13-year-old, which was a nightmare of enormous proportions.

Like, I'm just saying, this stuff works online.

This, like, sort of bullshit works online.

And it just is, it's exhausting.

All right, we've got to go because we have very limited time.

I didn't get to my wins or my predictions.

I'm going to do what is your wins very quickly.

Wins and predictions.

So my win, I've got five minutes.

The defining era

of this age or the defining art form is television and a TV show that I just absolutely adore as is Modern Family.

And in the midst of all this noise about Amazon, they announced they're going to have their final season next year.

And I am watching all 11 seasons with my two boys and it makes us all feel and feel closer to family.

I think the amalgam of creativity, writing, great acting is just wonderful.

And I would like to play a clip.

I don't know if for example.

I had the showrunner and creator of it, Steve Lebatin on code many years ago.

Genius.

But there's one clip I'd like to play, and it's Jay Pritchard, who

is played by Ed O'Neill.

He's the patriarch of the family, and the episode is about

wearing your emotions on your sleeves or keeping your emotions bottled up.

And in this scene, in this scene, he's talking about when his father passed away.

Feelings.

I didn't even cry at his funeral.

You believe that?

The guy was my whole world.

Not a tear.

Everybody looking at me like I didn't love him.

But he knew.

He had to know, right?

Of course he did.

Son of a bits, that felt good, good night.

Wow.

I know.

They just want therapy.

All right, Scott, what did you get from that?

You know, that show,

at our age, Kara, you know what I want from media?

I want to feel something.

And Modern Family makes me feel something every week.

Okay, well, that's what media is supposed to do, and it's when it's good.

I thought it was supposed to make us think.

I want it to feel.

I'm done thinking.

Well, I went and saw Aquaman, and it didn't make me feel anything except that guy's

this was a lot of movie.

I had to say, I did get my whatever $29 worth in terms of stuff.

It was a big piece of luck.

There was a lot going on there.

But you're right.

You do want to feel something.

You do.

You know, like how you felt watching Black Panther.

Whenever it's done really well,

media is wonderful.

Most of the time, it makes people sick these days, unfortunately.

Predictions.

Predictions.

Okay.

Barry Diller coming in, and he does not wait.

Let me just tell you.

He does not wait.

I am so scared of Barry Diller.

The two of you together.

We're doing angry talk about this thing in the river here in New York.

And he has lots of things to say.

I love interviewing Barry Diller.

Yeah,

that'll be a good one.

So, okay, my prediction: I'm in D.C.

I'm going to send him after you if he's if you're.

No, no, no, no.

I was literally just thinking, say nothing about me.

That guy scares the shit out of me.

He should.

So, predictions, please.

Besides, you'll be dead if we don't hurry.

Okay, so in the next 30 to 60 days, a new candidate for president on the Democrat side announces and becomes the frontrunner or maybe the number two, and it's somebody that 95% of the American public has never heard of.

Who?

What are you doing, Obama?

Who is it?

Well, Bennett's close.

It's Senator Bennett from Colorado.

Oh, I just had lunch with him.

Yes, he's fascinating.

Not lunch, we had coffee.

Yes, he's really interesting.

That's a really interesting man.

He's very eggheady, though.

I like him.

I like his old egghead moves.

Character over charisma, centrist candidate that's not a billionaire.

Colorado is the most likable state in the world.

This is a guy who's genuinely concerned with the middle class.

He's an odd person, married once, wonderful family, school superintendent, wants to double down on capitalism.

And the most important criteria, he checks the box.

All of us Democrats are going to come to the conclusion that there's only one criteria, and that is who can beat Trump.

And 70% taxes and Medicare for all is a way to re-elect Trump.

This guy is a capitalist.

He's got business experience.

He cares.

He's into the middle class.

I like, I like Senator Michael Bennett.

I do.

You know, it was interesting.

My son yelled down from upstairs yesterday.

Do you know this Michael Bennett person?

I just watched his speech.

You know, when he was yelling at whatever.

Cruz.

Oh, my God.

Oh, that was amazing.

These crocodile tears that the senator from Texas is crying for first responders are too hard for me to take.

They're too hard for me to take.

Because

when the senator from Texas shut this government down in 2013,

my state was flooded.

It was underwater.

People were killed.

People's houses were destroyed.

Their small businesses were ruined forever.

And my son was like, I like him.

And he was, my son who's voting in 2020 was liking the Kamala.

He liked Kamala.

Now he likes Michael Bennett, which was really interesting.

That was really Louis likes Senator Bennett.

Let me do full disclosure here.

His brother is James Bennett, who I work for at the New York Times.

He's the head of the United States.

Is that disclosure or name-dropping?

I like that.

Name-dropping, hidden in disclosure.

No, you have to, it's going to be an issue.

It's going to be

run the opinion section of the New York Times in the middle of a presidential election.

It's going to be an issue.

So you and I are going to host a fundraiser for Senator Bennett.

And you're going to have interesting people, and I'm going to invite hot people.

And you know why I like to have hot people at parties?

I would be happy to have coffee with him and give them my thoughts on the internet, but no, thank you.

I'm not raising any money for that.

come on thank you very much come on no i am of cara

look look at me yeah well you can go

all right i have to go scott i have to go talk to barry diller i'm going to send him your way or his people or his minions don't do that you'll never be here you'll be in the hudson under that island he's i will take on tucker not barry send tucker you are out for the

you are go deal with tucker for me okay go on that show and slap him around all right scott you're gonna be out for the next couple of weeks globetrotting so we'll have some guest hosts in your absence who will be I'm sure, much better than you.

Lobar.

Anyone?

Low bar.

Where are you going?

Where are you going?

I'm going to Dubai, Kenya, Tanzania, and Rwanda.

Oh, my God, you're going to Dubai?

Did you see that story about that?

I don't know.

Are you shaming me?

Should I not be going?

I'm going to go and spend a lot of money and meet a lot of nice people and eat some great food.

You need to read that story about them.

They're so interesting.

Do you think women?

They're so interesting.

A, I'm not that interested.

And B, if I read it and they

catch it on me, you might not

hear from me again.

You need to read it.

You need to read it you're i'm going to send it to you you're going to read it before you go and then where else are you going to

go to again

dubai's like vegas minus the charm no i don't want to talk no you have to read this story i'm not going to speak to this story so what's the other kenya tanzania and rwanda

yeah wow that's a great trip fantastic are you taking your kids uh it's my wife's birthday and she's always wanted to go to africa so no kids all right bring back some tech and media stories i want you like yes i bring back some tech and media stories about what the how they're using the internet and stuff like that there i would like to of the

global perspective i don't want homework what okay global perspective from those horrible dubai and and those places okay all right i would love to hear that rebecca sinanas produces this show nishat kirwa is the executive producer thanks also to eric johnson thanks for listening to pivot from box media we'll be back next week more of a breakdown of all things tech and business if you like what you heard please subscribe on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening thanks very much

Hey, everyone, this is Rebecca, Pivot Producer Extraordinaire.

So, as soon as we got out of recording this episode, news broke that Amazon is pulling HQ2 out of New York.

So, Kara and Scott are going to come back in for a bonus episode hot take on what all of this means, and it'll be in your feed later today.

So, stay tuned for that.

And, Bezos, if you're listening, quit messing with my production schedule.