Tim Cook’s 'data industrial complex,' Uber’s IPO and Saudi money

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Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Shakti Galloway.

And here we are, face-to-face in New York City.

You know, I'd like to think that you've finally decided to invest in this relationship and that you're here because of me.

It may be about someone else.

No, it's no, it's no.

Who are you?

Okay, nothing.

No, nobody.

Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton.

You're literally running to see Hillary Clinton.

You're having lunch or coffee with her?

Yes, I'm going to see her because we have a big interview tomorrow night at the 92nd Street Y.

It's our third interview.

Yeah.

It's a charm.

Third time's a charm.

So, you know who I'm having lunch with?

Who?

Not Hillary Clinton.

No, Mr.

Oatley.

Yeah.

Who is that?

First name, Chip.

Okay, who's that?

Who's that?

Chip Oatley.

Come on.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

You know what?

Chip Oatley.

You know what?

Like, you need to stop.

You need to stop.

Let me just go.

I'm doing Chatteslie.

I was just at Google.

Here's the deal.

I was just at Google at the Google news group.

I was giving a speech

a panel thing.

And I was coming down in the elevator, and this guy was like, I love you and Scott.

That Scott guy cracks me up.

I like when you riff with him.

It was, they were on.

This guy was like a huge fan.

One of my dad

fans?

Listen to it while he works out.

It was all guys.

It was interesting.

But I'm just telling you, we were two times in one place.

It was real exciting.

Thanks a lot.

So they like us.

They really like us at Google, at least.

So big stories this week.

Let's go right to them.

Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, gave an impassioned speech on data privacy in Brussels.

He said that Apple supports a federal federal privacy law in the U.S.

Let's take a listen to some of what he said.

the basis of our likes and dislikes, our friends and families, our relationships and conversations, our wishes and fears,

our hopes and dreams.

And so he said he supports a U.S.

federal privacy law, which there's one in California.

What do you think?

What do you think about this important speech?

Yeah, well, he's got a ton of moral authority.

He's likable.

I think he's principled.

But him taking a stand for privacy is like Sergey or Cheryl taking a stand against devices that are addictive to the young male brain.

It's just

an attack on Google and Facebook.

Yeah, it's an attack on his competitors.

Also what?

Smart thing to do.

It's a smart thing to do.

He's been doing it for a while.

I think it's principled, but where I think he kind of misses the mark or loses the script is when a terrorist uses an iPhone, the FBI says we'd like to get into this iPhone to see if other acts of terror are unfolding, gets a court order, and then Apple waves its middle finger in the face of the court order.

I'm good with that.

I'm on the other side.

You're wrong.

You know what?

Do you think the government is a bad person?

What if it had been a Blackberry?

What if it had been a blackberry?

I don't care.

I I don't think.

I like the stance.

I like the stance.

Okay, one of our kids doesn't show up after this.

I still like this.

Don't do that.

Don't bring the kids into that.

That's a different.

That's an emotional reaction.

That's an emotional.

No.

No.

They should not do that.

Guess what?

The government has other ways.

You have to have search warrants for your house.

If your spouse doesn't show up, that's what happens.

Yes, of course.

Your iPhone.

Oh, so your iPhone is more sacred.

Yes, but they have made a promise with the user of that phone, and get it to the user of that phone, even if it's...

I'm sorry.

If someone is thrown into the trunk, I'm with Tim on this.

If someone is thrown into the trunk of your fiesta, they have a search warrant.

Hold on.

The iPhone, you've bought into this religion where Steve Jobs is Jesus Christ and the iPhone 2.

It's not just.

It is not.

Here's the deal: the government has other ways of catching,

if not getting into an iPhone is the only way the government can catch a terrorist or get it.

It's a story of all information.

No, it is not.

No, there are lots.

It's called intelligence.

It's called the CIA.

It's called all kinds of ways.

They have lots of ways to get this information.

Well, they shouldn't get into my home then.

No, I think

the trade you're making on this is so big later down the line that it's critically important that they have these abilities to increase.

I trust judges more than I trust our people.

I do not trust judges.

I do not trust our government, which is shown to be no.

No, no, you're not what he's deep statement.

I'm not a deep state.

Oh, you're kidding.

No, but I do believe this, he's right.

You're wrong.

You're 100% wrong.

But here's the deal: this speech on privacy, he did this in an interview with me where I asked him, what would you do if you were Mark Zuckerberg?

He said I wouldn't be in that situation.

And then he went to town

on that issue.

You did that interview.

I did that interview.

And he's been on this.

And Steve Jobs was on this, too.

You can look at clips of me and Walt interviewing him, same thing.

They've been sticking to this for a long time, pre-Google, pre-Facebook, pre-anything like that.

So it is a bit of an opportunity for them.

And it is a religious situation going on in Silicon Valley, the tech religious, where people, it's Apple essentially and Microsoft on one side, Microsoft, and then

some others who are just furious at Google and Facebook.

And then at the Google and Facebook side, they think Tim is sanctimonious and that he's lecturing them.

And I'm like, I'm good with him doing that.

Yeah, it'll be,

I think it'll be sort of fun if they start going after each other.

You have a little bit of pushback from Cheryl and from Mark saying it was extremely glib.

I think they're all right.

You know, Apple, in my opinion, Apple has, it'll be interesting to see if Apple holds the same

mores around privacy when it comes to their app store.

And as they start to get into business, they have to be cleaner than, you know, they have to be whatever's

purer than the light.

But that's how the world is bifurcating.

You're either wealthy and can afford a device that only pulls on your data 50 times a day, which is iOS, or you want a a free phone and you have a device that gets to pull a thousand

argument, which is Mark Zuckerberg's argument.

But I do prefer.

I don't think it's a good thing, but that's how the world is buying privacy.

Yes, exactly.

Where you get to buy privacy, essentially.

Advertising and targeting, especially advertising, this isn't a new thing, have become the tax that the poor and the technologically illiterate have to pay.

Yep, it is.

I bet the one thing in common with all your media is it's not littered with ads telling you have restless leg syndrome, right?

You go home on a Thursday night, you can watch Modern Family, you can download it right away on ABC.com, or you can download it and pay three bucks from Apple TV.

And most people in our cohort choose that their time is worth more than $18 an hour, so they download, they pay $3 for a $21 inch bucket store.

Let me ask you a question.

Would you support this U.S.

federal privacy law?

There's one in California.

Obviously, Europe has been rather stringent.

I think California, once Gavin Newsom gets in power, is going to be its own country.

It's going to pass all kinds of laws.

It's the fifth-largest economy in the world.

It's going to.

I think Gavin is, that's the way he's going.

But what do you think about this U.S.

privacy law?

So it makes sense probably to have it done at a federal level such that companies don't have to go through the friction of figuring out

50 different legislations.

I am not a fan, actually, of regulation.

I think the more elegant solution, I mean, what do we want here?

We want to thread the needle between curbing their influence, but at the same time, not kneecapping this incredible machine of capitalism and value creation.

And I think the way you do that is by breaking them up.

So I think this regulation.

That's your go-to thing, breaking them up.

And it works.

When does it ever work?

The problem with GDPR, when you look at Europe, is I worry that it's actually cementing the position of the big leaders.

The big ones, yeah.

Because they have the lawyers.

Complexity favors the wealthy and the incumbents.

So laws, regulations.

This legislation is

complex and expensive.

And some basic, like immediately inform people, give people data transparency, give people data moments.

Notify them when they've been hacked.

Notify them and hack.

Those should, I think, be law.

Like these people have gotten immunity for too long.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Very less.

And I think we're going to get that.

I think, especially if the Democrats get into power, I just wrote about this Internet Bill of Rights, and that's one of the top 10.

Do you think it should be federal?

Yes, I do.

Yes, I do.

If not, it's going to be big states like California and Massachusetts and New York, and it's going to be federal, essentially.

And is it GDPR 1.1, or is there?

No, it's got to be more.

You can't have the right to be forgotten here.

It's not going to happen in the First Amendment.

There'll be differences.

But it should be enough that I think the government should sit down with these companies and just say, look, these are the rules of the road, or else they're going to lose all their immunity.

They've had immunity for far too long around these things.

So, anyway, next thing: Uber.

Yeah.

What?

$120 billion.

They're saying IPO at $120 billion.

What do you think of that?

Well, so first- a lot of people disputing their ability to do that.

Let's have some fun with this.

I think Uber is an incredible product.

I think it's amazing.

Think about it.

Conceptually, you have a multi-trillion dollar asset called Cars.

They get 4% utilization.

So 96% of the time, non-utilized, figure out software.

It's literally like, let's come up with an app that lets you and me leverage the U.S.

Navy.

I mean, it's just staggering what they've been able to figure out.

And one of my favorite experiences, and I want to give you, ask you, what is a cool Uber experience you've had?

I go to the Cannes Creativity Festival.

I get off the plane.

I'm about to, I pull up the app.

I want to see a picture of a car, hit it, and I see an icon of a helicopter come up.

I'm like, okay, what the heck?

And I press it and it says, meet us at baggage claim.

They zip me off in a sprinter van.

I get in this lawnmower with a rotor that looks like a kid who's, you know, up from my paper route with a military uniform.

And they fly me across the Cote to Zora and I land in Cannes.

And it was for like 80 euros.

I mean, it was just incredible.

Uber's changed my life.

I love it.

So, you talk about something you love, and I'll tell you why I think it's like.

All right, I'm going to give you my Uber t-shirt because when I wear it, people throw things at my head.

But go ahead, it's the best t-shirt I have.

Well, so you know, it's also a lot of fun.

If you ever are driving up or past a crowded place, just roll your window down and go, Uber, and see how many people come to the car.

It's a ton of fun.

And then look at them like they're just fucking crazy.

Why are you bothering me?

Anyway,

I think Uber has basically cemented.

You're sick, puppy.

But anyway, go ahead.

You know it.

Go ahead.

You know it the most.

I do.

I'm very aware of this.

Anyways, so we have yet to go out for drinks.

So Uber has, okay, so we have a caste system.

We're bifurcating into a nation of 350 million serfs serving 3 million lords.

And Uber is the ultimate example of how we've institutionalized this.

So you're a lord, presumably.

Oh, yeah, because I'm fortunate because I had access to free education and had a shave time.

Am I a duke?

Oh, no, you're definitely.

You're the strong man.

You're the one that says, it will be done.

And then the next thing you know, the person has a headache.

I have different thoughts on Uber, just because I'm sort of furious about this Saudi Saudi thing with the money they've taken and the

okay but but but hold on and tell me if you disagree with this.

$120 billion.

That's the value of

that $120 billion IPO.

That's the value of Airbus, a couple hundred thousand employees.

Yeah, do you think it's worth that?

Do you think it's worth that?

Well, hold on.

Give me some running room for you.

Okay, here.

I want answers.

And then value of Procter ⁇ Gamble, $180,000, more value than the entire auto industry, 12,000 employees.

Only 12,000 people and their investors are splitting $120 billion.

So my question is: how have they figured out a way to turn 2.5 billion employees into quote-unquote driver partners, which means they don't get health care, they're not subject to minimum wage laws, they make on average $10.50 an hour, and they have no participation in that $120 billion.

So my question for Daro is one thing: Are you just lipstick on a pig?

I like you.

I think you're nice.

You've calmed down the waters there.

But should the 2.5 million people who have built this company participate in the $120 billion win for?

They have to.

Someone was just talking about this the other day with me.

But are they?

No, they're not.

They have to.

That would be something else.

Union.

Yeah.

Hey, Uber, driver partners.

Perhaps you should reach out to the UAW, which, by the way, I'm a member of.

No, the unions have been hollowed out, but remove along.

Go ahead.

Okay, but let's restore them.

If I were these driver partners, I would say, look, we need to participate in that $120 billion windfall.

Or, Dar, regardless of how charming and how nice you are, we're going to fuck up this IPO.

All right.

Another way you could do it, again, I'm getting back to Gavin Newsom.

He was talking about changing the ways employers and contractors, contractors, instead of having the old way and we're judging on those, we create whole new ways of work categories that would require these companies to do things like that or give health care or have health care benefits.

Again, something they could do in California, which would impact Uber massively.

Yeah, that's a rune sundaraj and my colleague.

He's done some great work about that.

But how does that ⁇ so at one point, Sears, 25% of Sears, was owned by the employees.

And the question is...

How do you turn these?

And by the way, if you talk to Uber drivers, Fair is Fair, they like it.

It gives them flexibility.

I know that.

They have to own a piece of this.

They have to own a piece of this thing.

This is such a thing built by its drivers.

2% of it, $2.4 billion.

That would be less.

It's like going to the murderous, thuggish Saudi.

$2.5 million drivers.

I'm trying to get dismembered here.

Bone saw.

I feel a bone saw coming our way.

Anyways,

$1,000 per driver, $2.5 billion, to 2%, 1%, or 2% dilution.

You know, Dara, pony up.

I'm starting to believe you have empathy.

All right.

Show me.

I am going to write the entire New York Times column about this, saying this.

Okay.

I'm on your side.

You've convinced me of this.

But I don't think it's worth $120 billion.

You don't think it's worth $120 million?

I've had lots of economists send me the breakdown.

This is not Amazon.

They have no moats.

This is

the whole lift has come out of nowhere, right?

Or not nowhere.

All right.

So do you think they have moats like everyone's like, oh, this is like Amazon later.

Do they have to do that?

No,

it's a very boring economics case of why they're not, why Airbnb will be worth more than Uber, because Uber has incredible supply, but

you and I could start with 50 million bucks, you and I could start a ride-hailing service in DC because we could create local demand and local supply, local drivers and local supply.

That's what I say.

Airbnb has to have global demand because if you're coming in from Austin, it means you're not there.

So if you're from Copenhagen, you need to have no of Airbnb in Copenhagen.

Whereas Uber can have regional competitors everywhere.

And we're starting to see that with DD and China.

Yep.

So the moats are

they think the brand is a moat and the app is a moat.

Yeah, but it's it's probably

10 20 billion 50 billion maybe right exactly having the credit card is good what if they start like you you go into the subway and then you use your uber app to pay for it that's well this is this is what and i want to hear what you think but i think uber needs to become expedia before expedia becomes uber uber should be all right i'm headed to paris next week i type in paris they know my weight class economically i put in the date and they i press a button and it says here is the entire recommended travel itinerary everything from flights to hotels

was trying to do.

But go upstream and downstream, right?

Sort of what Google Maps does.

It tells you how to get there subway walking.

I've never taken advantage of how much I use Google Maps.

I have to say, I only use it for, they don't ever, they do offer me restaurants and things, but I don't avail my, it's not in my face enough.

You don't use it for directions?

I use it for directions, but I don't use it for anything else.

Like I see them offering me things, but it's not in my face enough.

So back to Uber.

They are a wash and Saudi money.

I did not know that.

Oh, $14 billion of their, they own a ton of it.

They put in a 3.5 just recently, and before that, they put a bunch in through either piff or through the soft bank fund the soft bank fund was the latest one with 9.3 billion and the saudis represent half of that and so my question is the following just what would we have them do about that i don't know but here's what i would not want them so dara pulled out of the thing calls and says i'm pulling out of the thing which is fine he obviously had to um but you know here's what i didn't appreciate when travis went over there and he's like hey kara they're letting like he didn't say that directly but like uber did this like hey kara they're letting women drive now and i was was like, they have movie theaters.

And they have movie theater.

I was like, fuck you.

It's not a favor that women can.

Oh, thank you so much, sir, for letting women drive.

And then they jailed the woman activist who got that, made that happen.

They jailed her for that.

So she's been in jail for years.

It's just,

I just, I'm sorry.

I don't know how they sleep at night taking that money.

I just don't.

But here's the thing.

Companies.

They can't give it back.

There's no way.

And by the way, if the Saudis boy, Saudis own a lot of Snapchat, they own a lot of Twitter.

They did, or through Kingdom Holdings, whoever.

And then the high net worth individuals there, of which there are many, own all these prints.

There's like 150 princes or whatever, how many there are.

They're going to buy this stuff and they can buy it on the public markets.

And I'm not good with that, but they can, you know, they can buy treasuries.

They can buy anything else.

But taking this, anyone who takes money right now from these people going forward to me is just I hear you.

Here's the problem.

As an entrepreneur, I'm actually, I've raised a ton of money and I'm sure I'll raise more in the future.

You're willing to disarm, but you're not willing to disarm unilaterally.

And the question is, I paid 23 cents on the dollar to the government for them to think long-term, and I'm fine not taking their money as long as my competitors can't.

So I think this is really up to the government to step in and say.

It's going to be hard.

Oh, yes.

What are you talking about?

You can't have money from

Saudi into this country.

Freeze their asset sanctions.

Otherwise, it's not going to happen.

They literally killed a journalist, and Donald Trump is talking about

the media's fault that the pipelines show up

at CNN.

I love the most recent excuse.

We drugged him, and we were going to ask him if he would go back to saudi arabia and if you say no they're going to let him go now it's premeditated it's ridiculous it's like the bill costs this is not going to come from our government literally the head of our government right now is is saying it's the media's fault for the pipe bombs that were mailed to it so i just don't even i'm in a very angry mode today about that but again i i will press back on you what do you do you're an entrepreneur it's competitive you need low cost of cap you don't take the money and you let your competitors take it and you hope that your consumers

no if you want a soul you don't take it if you don't want a soul you take it that's so you're soulful you'll you're soulful and unemployed.

Look, all the money is dirty in some fashion, but that's particularly dirty money right now.

It's particularly dirty.

I'm sorry.

I'm just,

I'm sorry.

I have a soul.

I'm going to have to go.

Anyway, we're going to take a quick ad break.

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Now back to our show.

Okay, now back with wins and fails.

Scott, wins, wins this week?

So I had terrible wins.

My first win was Invisalign because I don't know if you've noticed, but I have these trays in my mouth.

I get the sense I'm going to be gorgeous.

You're going to be gorgeous.

I did.

My dentist, Craig Spodak, is like this.

You're doing an ad for invisalign like they're not paying us either what's the deal yeah i can't speak or eat and both those things get me into trouble so there's a lot of benefits to invisalign anyway but my real win of the week yeah and just everyone must know we don't rehearse because you're always like i got to get out of here i'm having tea with butros butros galley or something no so anyways my win of the week

i am but other than that he's doing really well okay other than that he's just fine so my win of the week yeah is i've been thinking about this probably too much

i'm gonna get you out of the fiesta you and i are going car shopping shopping.

What?

I figured out the car for you.

What?

Okay.

The scooters, skip scooter.

I'm not, I'm going to scooter.

We're going to the doors.

It's a big car.

It's a 2011 Matt Black Porsche 9-11.

No.

Oh, my God.

Okay, hold on, hold on.

You fit all the criteria for a Porsche.

Can I just tell you, just because you think I'm a lesbian, you think I like a man car?

No.

No.

Tells me what's going to come into it.

You fit all the criteria.

You want to hear the criteria for driving a Porsche?

Okay.

The first is you're shorter than 510.

All right.

You have to be short to drive or shorter or shortish to drive.

I get into a Porsche.

I look like a Q-tip behind a German automobile.

You have great hair.

Anyone in a Porsche should have great hair.

You have great hair.

Just your bottom on that one, right?

You have money.

Yeah.

Right.

Most people who drive Porsches have really little penises.

So having no penis qualifies.

All right.

All right.

You know, Scott, sunglasses, gray hair, rich, short.

Boom, Porsche.

There is no substitute.

All right, Scott, we're going to get into other issues.

I'm excited.

Tatsus can build rockets.

They build great.

No, no,

no, no.

N to the O.

I'm never buying another car again.

Come on.

I'm never buying another car again in my life.

There is no one.

That is my promise.

Nobody, I'm never buying another car in my life, ever.

You know what?

I bought my last car.

It's great to enjoy your youth once you're old enough to really enjoy it.

I bought my last car.

I'm making that.

That is my fail of the week, car people, because I'm never buying a car.

Let's get to one fail of you.

Facebook losing its Oculus founder.

Well, Oculus, the whole thing's stupid.

No, it's not.

Virtual reality?

reality?

No, it's not.

I'm not.

No, it is not.

VR?

No, I love VR.

Oh, my God.

That's going to be another next week.

Right up there with 3D printing.

No, VR is going to be a big world.

Two things.

I ran.

Okay, I did a VR.

I put a VR when I was riding a roller coaster in Hong Kong.

I know that's a lot of fun.

There's a lot of commercial applications for that.

I'm just telling you, it was so much.

No, it was great.

It was an amazingly functionality.

And then I did something in the mall, these things, I can't remember what they're called.

Strapped on the computer on my back.

My kids and I had the best time, hours of fun fun with VR in a VR environment, playing with each other, doing different things.

Amazing.

Okay, video games and fun stuff in malls.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's a $500 million industry.

No, it's not.

It's much bigger.

This is the biggest thing.

No, you're wrong.

The empathy things, I think it has not been.

Empathy.

Empathy, things that you want to experience.

I think it's going to be big.

I'm going to go.

I'm going to go on a little bit.

Well, in five years, it's been an enormous stud.

Why?

So what?

Because one of our new Jesus Christs, Mark Zuckerberg, said it would unlock new worlds.

It hasn't unlocked anything.

It could.

It has.

I think it will.

AR.

I'm with you on AR.

Okay, AR.

All right.

Holding up a phone to an apartment building.

So he left.

So you don't think the Oculus founder.

But what I'm thinking more is that all these leaders are leaving Facebook.

That's what I was talking about.

Yeah, but I think on Oculus, it basically said the jig is up.

They realize virtual reality is stupid.

Oculus will probably be closed down in the next 24 months.

All right.

Okay.

We're going to move on to predictions in a second.

Okay.

Then let's move to predictions.

Oculus

is going to move.

This is your predictions our next day.

The next 24 months.

It's too bad because.

What about Magic Leap?

Well, I want to promote Magic Leap because I live in Florida and we only have two real unicorns down there chewy and magic leap chewy I think I think VR is I think it's ridiculous right up there with 3D printing internet of things all these overhyped internet of things why is that what are you talking about you only have one internet of thing your iPhone you don't need to connect your blender to the internet no you don't but I have nest you have these

regulating your house locks things like that sure yay it's not a small thing

all right okay it's not working anyways I think I think uh VR is an enormous set I think it's already dead on arrival all right okay Any other predictions?

My prediction?

I think Uber is going to go public, but it's not at that number.

I think it's a lower valuation.

I do.

I do.

And then what would they do?

I think they would use the stock to go buy a bunch of hotel and transportation companies.

Yes, I think if they have

to get while the getting's good, just the way Apple did.

If they go out at that number, they better start buying things that actually

fill in the blanks.

There's a lot of blanks there.

What do you think happens before then?

Do you think the labor force rallies?

No, I don't think they're wildly disorganized, and that's that's an advantage to Uber.

I wish they would.

I wish there was some great, like,

I don't know, Caesar Chavez of the people of Uber, something that will organize them.

That would be great.

So $12,000 employees, $120 million.

That's literally $10 million in equity value for every employee.

We've never seen that in the history of corporate.

We've never seen that in a marketplace.

I think they need to be part of it.

I think in the Airbnb thing, he's trying to figure out a way to give the renters of the places equity.

Yeah, some sort of equity.

That's smart.

He's trying to do that.

Facebook is close.

Half of the history is a good thing.

That's because he's a thoughtful, interesting man.

You like him.

I love him.

You develop crushes.

No, I don't.

I think he's, he's just like, he's at least thinking about it.

Like at least like you don't hear it from them until you like hit them over the head with a hammer.

So envision this.

You're rolling down the, what's that?

The 280, that highway out there and Porto or that connects San Francisco.

You're in there, Porsche, and in the back is Evan Spiegel rubbing your shoulder.

Porsche.

No, I like Evan.

Porsche.

I like Evan.

I'm sorry that he's got some troubles, but I like him.

All right.

Scott, I have to get out of here.

I've got to go.

I know.

I've got to go ahead and talk to you about Hillary Clinton, blah, blah.

I I know.

I have to interview her, and I have a little pre-interview thing.

I'm going to go ahead and.

And what's the most important question you're asking?

Well, it's changed this week because of the pipe bombs and stuff like that.

But I was going to talk to her about the midterms, obviously, Russia, because she was right in my last interview about what the Russians had done.

So I'm going to let her take a little victory up on that.

I think the elections, the impact of the Clintons, whether they, you know, this whole, whether they should be around.

I think I have to ask her about her comments about Monica Lewinsky.

Just order the

21-year-old giving a president president a blowjob, non-abusive power lunch special.

I am going to.

We have to talk about it.

We have to talk about that.

But I think this thing today, these attacks on Democratic, it's sort of moved everything to the side.

It's a really disturbing issue.

What are your questions on that, though?

Is that part of the coarseness of our discussion?

No, it's what happens from the coarseness of our discussion.

It's what happens, and it's dangerous, and it's scary.

And the fact that the president of the United States gets up and says what he says is appalling.

And

I don't even understand how someone could do that.

I don't understand how people could work for people that do that.

So I think.

And back to the Clints.

Let me ask you this.

Clints are our problem.

Do they keep doing what they're doing or do they take a victory lap and exit stage left?

I have two minds.

I think they should be able to do so.

I think she should.

I think John Carey gets to talk.

John McCain got to talk.

He ran a very unsuccessful election campaign.

And men get to talk after they lose.

Women have to skulk away and put on the sackcloths and ashes and shut up.

I do get the issues around him, her husband, and and everything else.

But I want her,

the thing she did was say women's rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights.

That took a lot of guts to do that in China back then.

I want that, Hillary Clinton.

Well, the bottom line,

we probably picked the wrong Clinton for president, right?

She probably should have been president.

She's this uber competent, hardworking person.

What a shock.

The men got to go first.

There you go, right?

Scott, thanks.

I interviewed Rebecca Tracer this morning, so I'm in a, she wrote a book about women and rage and anger, and I'm in an angry mood.

You're all those those things.

I'm today.

Today, yes, I am.

Anyway, I'm going to stay angry too.

Thanks.

Looking forward to talk to you next week.

And by the way, if you have questions for us on the podcast, shoot us an email at pivot at Voxmedia.com.

Our show is produced by Rebecca Sinanes.

Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio.

Thanks also to Eric Johnson and thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media.

Join us next week for more breakdown on all things tech and business.

If you like what you heard, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're you're listening.

All right, Scott, see you next week.

This is Scott Galloway.

I've founded nine businesses and eight of those nine businesses.

A key partner has been QuickBooks, which enables the management team to focus on the levers of really driving value and also provides a dashboard to gain insight into the key operations and finances of the company.

QuickBooks has been a pillar of my entrepreneurial efforts.

Check out quickbooks.com.