Shutdown Ending, Trump's Pardons, and Guest Curtis Sliwa

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Speaker 16 This is the live taping of the Pivot podcast with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway.

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Speaker 17 Hi, everyone. Live from the King's Theater in Brooklyn.
This is Pivot from New York Magazine.

Speaker 17 And the Vox. And the Vox Media Podcast Network, I'm Kara Swisher.

Speaker 18 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Speaker 17 And before we start, I want to send a big thank you to our sponsors, Odo and Upwork. Thank you.
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Speaker 17 We're thrilled to have them. We are taping this show for audio and YouTube distribution.
You'll be able to hear it or watch it on Wednesday.

Speaker 17 Our special guest tonight is Curtis Liwa, radio host, founder of the Gardening Angels, and most recently, the Republican candidate for mayor of New York City.

Speaker 17 Give him a cheer. Come on, Brooklyn.

Speaker 17 As you know, he didn't win, which is why he's here with us tonight.

Speaker 17 We didn't even think of inviting Cuomo, don't worry.

Speaker 17 We are not Cuomosexuals. Let's just be clear about that.

Speaker 17 I know this is crazy, but one of the things, besides you loving New York, which is so clear, and the fact that you didn't withdraw was, I thought, took a lot.

Speaker 17 I bet you had a lot of pressure to withdraw, correct?

Speaker 16 Well,

Speaker 16 first they started with the Mula Shmuela and the Skado, the billionaires, you know? Yeah. The masters of the universe that you think they control.
Well, it started at 3 million. Oh, okay.

Speaker 16 Then 5, then 7, then 8, then finally, $10 million.

Speaker 16 Cash.

Speaker 18 Cash. They legitimately offered you $10 million to control.

Speaker 16 These are legitimate billionaires, the masters of the universe. Yeah.

Speaker 16 And naturally, I told them, no, no. I said, you know,

Speaker 16 this is unethical. This is bribery.
This could well be criminal. My wife, Nancy, who is the animal rescuer, but also an attorney, said, Curtis, you can't be taking these calls.

Speaker 16 You got to put them on blast, which I did.

Speaker 16 I said, any more attempts to bribe me out of the race, I'll be wired up like a Christmas tree. And the DA, Alvin Bragg, will be listening to your conversations.
That ended all the conversations.

Speaker 16 Excellent, right.

Speaker 17 But, but, wait, but there's more.

Speaker 16 There's more.

Speaker 16 You see, they take that as an insult.

Speaker 17 you know money rules the world they think right you know what i always say curtis they're so poor all they have is money but go ahead yeah

Speaker 16 so then they figure

Speaker 16 we can't bribe them we'll kill them oh well that's been tried before by the goddess thingy gambinos that didn't work very well five hollow point bullets yeah but they knew go at his wife because that i mean my wife It's the most important person in my life.

Speaker 16 It's saved me time and time again. Threatened her, threatened me.
And for the first time in my life, we had to have armed security because they're not used to being told no.

Speaker 16 And I said, no, no, no, it's not the billionaires, the influencers, or the insiders who are going to determine the next mayor. The people.
One person, one vote.

Speaker 16 They chose Zoran Mandami, the people who have spoken. Right.

Speaker 17 So,

Speaker 17 was there any minute that you thought about it? Not, it obviously doesn't seem like it. I mean, obviously, Eric Adams took the whatever.

Speaker 16 Oh, he was like Bob Barker. The price was right.
One and done.

Speaker 16 But for them, it's tip money, these billionaires. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 18 Ask for $5 billion, launch a meme coin and run for president.

Speaker 16 But I came into this world with nothing. I leave with nothing, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
We need selfless servants, not self-serving servants. This is what people deserve.

Speaker 17 So let's talk a little bit because I thought you actually read a pretty joyful campaign, which was really interesting.

Speaker 17 And I loved you in the middle of those debates because you sort of called out both of them in a really, I think, relatively respectful way.

Speaker 17 But I do want to ask first about your cats. This is the part that I loved.

Speaker 17 And I'm a dog cat person, so I'm pet sexual.

Speaker 17 Scott's a dog person, just so you're aware.

Speaker 17 It was talked about a lot. And let me read you a quote what you said about being a cat guy.

Speaker 17 People think if you're a man with cats, you've gone soft. You're not turgid.
you're flaccid. I really like that you're using these words.

Speaker 16 They're excellent words.

Speaker 17 Now since Scott has written a book, his latest book is about masculinity, I'd love to know why do you think they think it's not manly to have cats? What is your determination?

Speaker 16 They associate it with what they call cat women, like my wife, like others, and they do the majority of the rescuing.

Speaker 16 But they don't expect somebody like me. who can hit you so hard your mother will feel the vibrations.

Speaker 16 So I say, oh, what's wrong with being a cat person? I love cats. You got a problem with that? Oh, no, Curtis.
No, no, no, no. In fact, it goes beyond that.
Pigeons.

Speaker 16 You know, there's a big debate about pigeons. Some people think they're rats with wings.
I do. I and my wife, we love the street pigeons.
You know, they put spikes up to try to impale them.

Speaker 16 So my wife feeds the pigeons in the morning, and people will scream at her. What are you doing? You know, they spread disease, and then I'll come up behind it.

Speaker 16 You got a problem with my wife feeding the pigeons? No, no, no, no, Curtis.

Speaker 17 So you did learn something from the Gaudis. Yeah, you see,

Speaker 16 you have to have men and women joined in solidarity.

Speaker 16 Because look, maybe the greatest man ever to walk the earth, Mahatma Gandhi, said, a society that does not take care of its animals does not take care of its people.

Speaker 16 On the way here, taking the two train to Church Avenue, homeless people in the subways because it's getting colder, emotionally disturbed, many of them veterans. That's a shanda.
That's u discraziata.

Speaker 16 That's a stain on our soul that we don't take care of people in distress because we don't take care of animals in distress.

Speaker 17 All right, Scott, that's where you are. Masculinity, talk about this idea.

Speaker 18 Well, no, I would just if you had been elected and you were given license to do one thing without approval of the legislature or any other governing body, what is the one policy you would have liked most to see implemented as mayor of New York?

Speaker 16 Well, just to stick it to my critics, the masters of the universe, President Donald Trump, Elon Musk, you know, the trillionaire waited. I've heard of him.

Speaker 16 I would have filled up every nook, corner, and cranny of Grace C Mansion with every animal we could rescue from the shelter who would not be euthanized.

Speaker 16 Every animal. I believe in no-kill shelters.
No kill shelters. No animal should be put to death.
And we do, unfortunately, in New York City and other cities. We do.

Speaker 16 We can have a society where we do not put animals animals to death. They are our friends.
They are our family members. They are our equals.
In New York State,

Speaker 16 they are thought of in the law as property. They're not property.

Speaker 16 They are our family members. They are our equals.
And when I say, oh my God, an animal is your equal. What do you have all the furniture upstairs and rearranged in the wrong rooms? No.

Speaker 16 That's, you see, if we would treat people the way we should be treating animals, the society would be so much better. So much better.

Speaker 17 So, Scott, what do you think of his idea about cats being manly? Because you're a dog man.

Speaker 18 I think any love for another mammal is wonderful. And

Speaker 18 I love to...

Speaker 18 What? Is that funny?

Speaker 18 I'm so over my head right now.

Speaker 18 Yeah,

Speaker 18 I think it's wonderful.

Speaker 18 I'm a big fan of animals. Can I ask you a question about the Guardian Angels? You founded it 46 years ago.

Speaker 16 Is that correct? 47.

Speaker 18 47 years ago.

Speaker 16 Up in the bronze.

Speaker 18 And I don't know much about it, but my sense is it does give people, younger people, disproportionately men, also women, a sense of protection.

Speaker 18 And we talk a lot about recently what it means to be a man and trying to create an aspirational view of masculinity.

Speaker 18 And one of the things we talk about is protection and serving in the purpose of something bigger than yourself.

Speaker 18 Can you talk a little bit about the type of young people that were joining the Guardian Angels and where it intersected with purpose and your observations around young people, specifically young men, and what the Guardian Angels meant to them.

Speaker 16 Yeah, especially when I started in the Bronx 1979, if people need to know, if you needed to identify a period piece about it, just check out the cult classic, The Warriors.

Speaker 16 So they thought we were one of the groups in the Warriors. You know, they would get on the train and say, Warriors, come out and play.

Speaker 16 It was filled with gangs.

Speaker 16 But what you had is dysfunctional young men coming from dysfunctional households in many instances where there was not a good male role model, poor male role models in the streets.

Speaker 16 And I knew we had to create an atmosphere where they could come in and understand that being a man means you don't have a weapon. We don't carry weapons.
It's like a phalix symbol, a weapon, a gun.

Speaker 16 You got a gun, I got a bigger gun, I got a bazooka, I got a howitzer. Hey, let's face off.
High noon. No, no, no, no.
A real man doesn't need to have a gun.

Speaker 16 A real man should be protecting the poor, the infirm, the elderly, the children, people who can't defend themselves. And you inculcate these young men that this is your responsibility in this world.

Speaker 16 Women can take care of themselves, but the elderly, the children, the infirm. No, no, we have a moral responsibility to go out and risk our life to protect them.

Speaker 16 Six guardian angels have been killed in the line of duty, three dozen seriously injured. Some people wonder, why do you wear that pere? I wear this pere in their honor.

Speaker 16 They did it because it was the humanitarian thing to do for people they didn't even know. And that's what our world needs more of.
That's great. Thank you.

Speaker 17 So you got

Speaker 17 7% of the vote in this past election to Cuomo's 41.6 and Mamdani's 50.4. You've been a Republican in one of the bluest cities in America for decades.

Speaker 17 Talk about, is it futile to try to sell any conservative ideas to New Yorkers who keep voting Democratic?

Speaker 16 Well, didn't the president say Curtis Lee, is he a Republican?

Speaker 17 Well, you're not his kind of Republican.

Speaker 16 They don't treat me like a Republican. I'm more of a populist.
I represent working class people, especially in the outer boroughs. So call me I am.

Speaker 16 I was proudest to run on the first ever independent line created by my wife, first in electoral history in the United States, protect animals. I got a lot of votes on the protecting animals line.

Speaker 16 People would say, Curtis, you're a Republican. I can't vote for you, but you love animals.
I can vote for you on that line. In fact, I come from a household.

Speaker 16 My father and mother, my dad was a merchant seaman 50 years. My mother was a dental technician, hardcore blue-collar Democrats.
I'd walk into their bedroom.

Speaker 16 They had Jesus Christ, you know, Blessed Virgin Mother Mary. They had Pope John Paul because my dad was Polish.
They had Barack Obama and they had JFK.

Speaker 16 And I said to my dad, Dad, you grew up in Chicago. You taught me all about Abraham Lincoln.
He kept the country together. I got a $5 bill.
I'll put it on the wall. No Republican ever goes on my wall.

Speaker 16 That's the party of the privileged, the wealthy, the country club people. I was inculcated like that.
My first vote in 1972, George McGovern against Richard Nixon.

Speaker 16 That was the counterculture in the 60s. Don't go your hair long, I grew my hair long.
Don't smoke ragweed, I smoke ragweed. Don't go to a concert, I went to a concert.

Speaker 16 Don't go to the anti-war rallies. I was there a million strong for the inauguration of Richard Nixon in 1972 in Washington, D.C.

Speaker 16 You did not trust authority.

Speaker 16 You didn't trust anybody over 30? And I was raised, always question authority. Always question authority.
Never accept what they say. And free speech is the answer to hate speech.
More free speech.

Speaker 16 Free speech, free speech, free speech.

Speaker 16 How did you become a Republican then?

Speaker 16 It's a good question. My dad.

Speaker 17 Speaking of a Shonda to your parents, but go ahead.

Speaker 16 My dad raised me on Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals.

Speaker 16 Even my dad said, How did you become a Republican? I taught you rules for radicals, Saul Alinsky, which I used effectively. I just identified with some of their policies.
Right.

Speaker 17 I really did. But not now.

Speaker 16 Some, not all.

Speaker 17 Right. Some, not all.
So New York City CEOs and billionaires, as you noted, business leaders spent more than $40 million to stop Momdani, and you too. Bill Ackman spent $2 million to stop him.

Speaker 17 And now, of course, he says, if I can help New York City, just let me know what I can do.

Speaker 17 Grossly billionaire and former GOP mayoral candidate John Casim, I don't care, the Grisides guy, the guy with the shitty supermarket,

Speaker 17 once compared Momdani to Castro. Now he's saying to look to move to business of Florida.
It doesn't seem like he's going.

Speaker 17 A lot of these billionaires have said they're leaving many times before and then they don't. Often they don't, but they threaten it.
I'm like, see you kind of thing. So do you think we'll see that?

Speaker 17 What do you look for in this administration? And what are you, you were the first person to congratulate the mayor-elect?

Speaker 16 Sure, this is what you do.

Speaker 17 Right. What do you want to do to help him and New York? What is your

Speaker 16 well, first off, in any adversarial situation? I remember playing football in high school. It was a team, Monsignor Frau on Staten Island, broke my shoulder.

Speaker 16 I had to end up shaking the hand of the guy who broke my shoulder. You know, this is called good sportsmanship.
Zoran Mandami, and I call them the Zoranistas. They were out there everywhere.

Speaker 16 They were. They were everywhere.
Every time I'd be in the streets or subways, I'd run across the Zoranistas. They worked hard.
They earned this election. They have gotten a mandate.

Speaker 16 You need to call up and give congratulations, hope for the best, because if Zoran does well as a mayor, we all do well as a city. You don't want him to fail.

Speaker 16 But it was also a caveat

Speaker 16 because I said, this is like Le Miserable

Speaker 16 to the barricades.

Speaker 16 If you become wine-dined and pocket lined, like I've seen politicians over the years,

Speaker 16 the only thing different between politics and organized crime, which I battled in my life, is at the end of the day, you don't have dead bodies. Other than that, it's the same.

Speaker 16 I see no difference between organized crime and politics. It's a dirty, dirty business.

Speaker 17 So what are you going to do to help him accomplish that?

Speaker 16 Well, clearly, you want a two-party system. Anytime you have

Speaker 16 a uniparty system, it's no good. You need a two-party system.
So I will be the voice of the loyal opposition.

Speaker 16 You can't stifle my voice because my voice is in the streets and the subways and with the peeps. And I wish him the best.
I hope he has good appointments. But I know what's going to happen.

Speaker 16 They're going to try to institutionalize him. He's a rebel with a cause, but watch how the institution tries to swallow him.
And then all of a sudden, they won't make their deals.

Speaker 16 Like Ackman, what a fake, phony, fraudulent Faghazi, that billionaire, right?

Speaker 16 Yes. Yes.
And then... He's the,

Speaker 16 after just attacking Zoron and attacking me unmercifully, morning, noon, and night, you would think, okay, you know Wall Street, you know hedge funds, but you know nothing about the streets, nothing about politics.

Speaker 16 Plus, you have a midlife crisis that you think you're a professional tennis player and you bum rush into tournaments and people boo you out. It's like, guys, stay in your lane.
Oh, no, every day.

Speaker 16 He's the first one in line. See, the billionaires always back channel.
That's why they call them hedge fund monsters. They figure out the hedge.
Oh, Zoron, I really love you. Zoron, whatever you need.

Speaker 16 Meantime, they got their Pierre Det in Manhattan. They have their main residence down in Palm Beach, Florida.
They got it figured out.

Speaker 16 Blue-collar working-class people, you know what we have in Italian? We have a word for that. Ugats.
You know what that is? Ugats. Bubkis.
Yeah.

Speaker 16 Bubkis. Yeah.

Speaker 17 Yes.

Speaker 16 Bangul. You got that.
That's right.

Speaker 17 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 16 That's what my mother used to do, Francesca. You got arrested again, Curtis.
Oh.

Speaker 16 Bangul, right?

Speaker 17 So, Scott, you asked the last. This is fantastic.
I'm so so happy.

Speaker 17 We're going to get to this show, but

Speaker 17 I may be voting for you.

Speaker 17 I don't live in New York, but

Speaker 17 last question.

Speaker 16 Cats.

Speaker 18 Now,

Speaker 18 so

Speaker 18 you've dealt with and have been involved with trying to police crime and protect the, I don't know, the disadvantaged or the vulnerable.

Speaker 18 Any thoughts on what do you, how would you describe the state of crime in the city as it gotten better? What do you think of the trends and what do you think of the NYPD and generally policing?

Speaker 18 Just thoughts generally on crime in the city and what you would have done as mayor to try and improve relationships between the community, the police force, and crime?

Speaker 16 Well, this is not the police department I grew up. Remember, I got arrested 81 times, so when I phoned the Guardian Angels, they would give me a wooden shampoo and a concrete facial.

Speaker 16 I'll never forget a sergeant on the number four train who arrested me, and I say, what's the charge, Sarge? And he said, inhaling and exhaling.

Speaker 16 And then they lost me on Rikers Island for a few days. And let's face it, I was staying in a dormitory with 40 guys who didn't love me.
So

Speaker 16 I had to stay awake with one eye open. Feet don't fail me now.
So I know what it's like to be on the abused side, but I also know the police department is different than when I was growing up.

Speaker 16 It's a minority, majority police department now. The minorities are the majority now.
It has changed drastically.

Speaker 16 The one thing we need to give the police, though, is they have this fancy term, qualified immunity. It was really the insurance we give to all civil servants.

Speaker 16 There's 320,000 civil servants, so that if they get sued for anything they did, we're culpable, the taxpayers. They stripped that from the police in

Speaker 16 2021, and so they're very tepid. They don't get involved.
They don't respond. And you need a responsive police department.
I know what it's like when they are abusive.

Speaker 16 Stop and frisk towards the latter part under Bloomberg was totally excessive because he was playing a numbers game.

Speaker 16 And even the PBA chief at the time, Patty Lynch, said, you're demanding that we have a quota of five stop and frisks a day. You're killing us in the community.
And they did.

Speaker 16 They don't care because it's quotas. Just like now with ICE, they have a quota, 3,000 a day.

Speaker 16 when they were going after the drug dealers the ban ombres the sex traffickers and narco-terrorists in the beginning hey people were applauding them then somebody in dc puts a quota quotas are always horrible because these are people

Speaker 16 you don't do that If you have bad people out there who are committing crimes, everyone is entitled to due process, whether you're legal, whether you're a migrant, whatever it is.

Speaker 16 We have a due process.

Speaker 16 There's no shortcuts. There's no easy passes.
So I I think maybe you understand why a lot of Republicans don't like that. I can see that very clearly.
I'm vying for your vote.

Speaker 16 That's a compliment. That's a compliment.

Speaker 17 Them having masks. You never had masks.
You never did that. What do you think of ICE having masks?

Speaker 16 I don't like it because in America, you need to be able to identify who the people are.

Speaker 16 Remember, now they give you business cards. You know, a police officer has to have a business card to give because they cover up their shields.
I remember all the tricks.

Speaker 16 After I did a few wooden shampoos and I was like dizzy and I'm looking for

Speaker 16 the name plate. It was gone.
Everybody's got to play by the rules. But I also realize that some of them get doxxed.
Some of them get threatened. Some of them are on the run constantly.

Speaker 16 We have to find the balance.

Speaker 17 Well, judges don't get masks.

Speaker 17 Judges don't get masks. Politicians don't.
Journalists don't get masks.

Speaker 16 No. But then again, some demonstrators wear masks too.
And I happen to know some of them, you know, they don't want to be identified. They shouldn't be wearing masks.
Take the masks away.

Speaker 16 I'd say, let's take all the masks away. Who you are is whom you are.
You don't need to fear photo recognition technology.

Speaker 16 I know a lot of people are fearful of that technology, but let's get rid of the masks. You have a right to demonstrate.
You have a right to be a law enforcement official. You should be identified.

Speaker 16 We got to get it back to, I would say, a balanced area where everybody's rights are respected. Right now, that is.

Speaker 17 I have one last very quick question. What do you say to Andrew Cuomo what he should be doing now?

Speaker 16 Andrew, ascendamé to siuproiano s fachim.

Speaker 16 That snake will slither back under his rock in the Hamptons,

Speaker 16 hang out

Speaker 16 with his billionaire friends.

Speaker 16 He ran the most dystopian campaign I could ever remember, and that's saying a lot.

Speaker 16 Every time he would speak, I would listen like at 3 o'clock in the morning, because that's the time I would generally break the campaign, and I would say, I feel soiled, like I have to take a hot shower.

Speaker 16 I mean, this guy was like a political zombie. You know, you thought he's dead, and he keeps coming back.
He's more of an ogre than ever before. Could you be any nastier and meaner?

Speaker 16 And by the way, if you were

Speaker 16 30 and younger, he'd be very flirty.

Speaker 16 If you were a senior citizen, don't let him put you in a long-term nursing home unit because you'd be dead. He was slapping fannies and killing grannies, and he should never see the light of day.

Speaker 17 All right, on that note, thank you, Curtis.

Speaker 16 Curtis, anywhere, everybody,

Speaker 17 thank you.

Speaker 17 Everybody, Curtis,

Speaker 17 one more.

Speaker 16 He's close to getting my vote.

Speaker 17 I don't live here again, but no.

Speaker 17 But still, he's fantastic. I love a person who loves New York, and that's the key part, and that's what we wanted to show here, actually.

Speaker 17 Okay, we need to take a quick break, and when we come back, we'll get to some news.

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Speaker 17 Scott, we're back in Brooklyn.

Speaker 17 Let's talk about the shutdown, which looks like it's close to ending.

Speaker 17 Eight senators in the Democratic caucus, none of whom faced re-election, voted with the GOP to advance the plan that funds the government through January only. Snap benefit, I know.

Speaker 17 All right, we're going to discuss it. Snap benefits would also be restored, although the Trump administration is still fighting the battle through SCOTUS and the lower court.

Speaker 17 In exchange, there's a promise of a Senate vote in December on extending expiring Obamacare subsidies.

Speaker 17 Mike Johnson just said didn't promise any vote whatsoever, so that's an issue. The House and the Senate still need to pass the final bill.

Speaker 17 Scott, as you put it on threads, we're winning, we're winning, we surrender.

Speaker 17 Is there a silver lining here?

Speaker 18 Well, sometimes it's darkest before it's pitch black. This is fucking pitch black.

Speaker 18 This is

Speaker 18 such a, just as I began hallucinating that Senator Schumer had these two spherical objects between his legs,

Speaker 18 I am brought back to reality that we are, as Democrats,

Speaker 18 not worthy of

Speaker 18 of representing people who make sacrifices.

Speaker 18 Surrender,

Speaker 18 this is a sense, let me just distill how I see it, and I'm curious what you think.

Speaker 18 We put a lot of people through a lot thinking that sacrifice might pay off like any battle, that there's no moral clarity, but we might have to make huge sacrifices such that we can ultimately have a better nation.

Speaker 18 And

Speaker 18 we folded. And I think the world is driven on incentives.
And what are the incentives now of the Republicans?

Speaker 18 And that is they're General Zodden in the Superman movie and that they've noticed or has noticed, that Superman's weakness or the Democrats' weakness is that they actually care, and that the more mendacious they get, the faster we'll fold.

Speaker 18 So, what happens in the next confrontation? So, essentially, what happened here is we put the American people through 40 days of real trauma for dick.

Speaker 18 Literally, nothing.

Speaker 16 Literally.

Speaker 18 Nothing. And this is just so, I find it incredibly upsetting.

Speaker 18 Even the machinations around getting the people who are not politically vulnerable to vote, yes, because they knew the American people were going to be very upset by this.

Speaker 18 So we have done nothing but put the American people through 40.

Speaker 17 There are some, you know, we were talking about it last night in Boston that

Speaker 17 they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory after that amazing week electorally, where voters were pro-Democrats and anti-Trump and anti-Republicans.

Speaker 17 But there are a couple of people who I respect, Tim Miller and others, who are positing that this is actually a trap. It's a strategic trap by Democrats.
Now, let me walk it out.

Speaker 17 Okay. The idea is two things.
One is that when Congress returns, the representative from Arizona, who's a Democrat, will get seated and they'll release the Epstein files.

Speaker 17 And apparently, they're pretty bad. from what I understand.
I mean, the pictures alone. So that's one thing.

Speaker 17 They get the Epstein files released. That's an important, I'm just saying, I'm just telling you.
The second thing is the Republicans were never going to extend the benefits anyway.

Speaker 17 And these are not what I think, but this is what they've articulated. And so this puts, once the Republicans refuse to pass it, it hangs around their neck for good.
And they own it completely.

Speaker 17 Now, on the other hand, you could say,

Speaker 17 we said, American people, we're here for one and one important issue only, health care. We're here to protect your health care and keep the costs low.

Speaker 16 Oh, we're kidding, right?

Speaker 17 That's what I think most people feel at this point. But there are other ideas that this is a strategic brilliance of hanging it around their necks going forward.
I don't agree with that.

Speaker 17 I think this group of senators who don't have anything to risk just decided to just take a dive. And the others...

Speaker 17 who may have been for this got protected so they could vote no, including Chuck Schumer, who I think orchestrated the entire thing from what I can tell.

Speaker 18 Yeah, look, the American people, people, the real politic of it is the American people prefer strong and wrong versus weak and right.

Speaker 17 Which is Bill Clinton's phrase.

Speaker 18 Exactly. And I see this no different as if we were to say, well, the Russians will actually bomb and shell maternity wards, so we need to surrender.
I don't see how it's any different.

Speaker 18 This is war and the notion that somehow, oh, but wait, the free gift with purchases, we're going to get the Epstein files.

Speaker 18 We told the American public, and this is one of the things I don't like about the Democratic Party, I think releasing the Epstein files is important.

Speaker 18 I think it's going to happen, but at the end of the day, the Democrats opt for social virtue versus actually impacting the material and mental well-being of average Americans. And the basis,

Speaker 18 the basis of well-being right now in our country, happiness

Speaker 18 This isn't going to surprise anyone. I struggle with anger and depression, so I decided to write a book on happiness.
And happiness isn't solely a function of what you have, it's absence of fear of

Speaker 18 things being taken from you.

Speaker 18 And in Norway or Sweden or any of the G7 countries, six of the G7 countries that have socialized medicine, which we absolutely need in this country, when your wife is diagnosed with lung cancer, it doesn't mean you're going bankrupt.

Speaker 18 40% of American households have medical or dental debt.

Speaker 18 Can you imagine as a mother and a father, you got a 17-year-old at home in screaming tooth pain, and you think, I got to borrow money to get a root canal for my kid.

Speaker 18 Almost half of American households struggle with medical debt. And we told them we're going to put a lot of people through a lot of pain such that we can prevent your insurance premiums from doubling.

Speaker 18 And then we fucking caved. Stop the gymnastics.
This was a huge failure on our part.

Speaker 18 AOC, I will give you $100,000 in the next 48 hours if you announce your primary schumer. Enough already.

Speaker 16 Okay.

Speaker 17 All right. We're going to hold you to that

Speaker 17 So

Speaker 17 what goes next? What happens next?

Speaker 17 They're gonna pass this They're going to wait push it off again and not govern until January It's of course all about the midterms all the strategery around the midterms presumably is what's happening here and who's gonna who's gonna wear this mantle because at this point it most people were blaming including independents Trump for all of this Trump the Trump administration the Republicans same thing with affordability same thing with the economy.

Speaker 17 Like some of these new polls coming out are devastating to Republicans. So, as Curtis might say, why not give them a wooden, I mean, a wooden shampoo?

Speaker 17 I love that phrase. I'm going to use it all.

Speaker 18 Does that mean a baton to that? Yes, a baton.

Speaker 17 Hello.

Speaker 18 By the way, never been arrested, arrested twice.

Speaker 16 True story.

Speaker 17 By the way, you don't need to shampoo.

Speaker 16 I'm sorry, I had to do it.

Speaker 18 Who wants to hear a lesbian marriage joke?

Speaker 17 That's coming up. That's coming up.
You'll have a chance.

Speaker 16 Go ahead.

Speaker 18 Look, I think at the end of the day, we're being too cute and too political by half.

Speaker 18 We had an opportunity here, and we made real sacrifices, and we were in the midst of a real battle that had cost a lot of people a lot. You know, our idea,

Speaker 18 I've been communicating with Democrats around this, and my big idea to put more pressure on them, I I thought we were winning.

Speaker 18 44% of Americans held the Republicans responsible, 33% of Democrats, the rest were TBD. We were winning this fight.

Speaker 18 And my idea, and it was getting some traction, I got some calls on this, was the air traffic control system was being strained. They were going to shut down 20% of flights before Thanksgiving.

Speaker 18 I did the analysis, and it was pretty straightforward. 16% of tail numbers leaving airports in the United States are private planes carrying less than 1% of passengers.
You ground private planes.

Speaker 18 You want to see real pressure put on representatives and senators?

Speaker 17 They're doing it. They announced they were doing it.

Speaker 18 Don't need to anymore.

Speaker 16 They're shut down on Monday. That's right.

Speaker 18 We were winning this fight. What? I mean, we didn't check back when we got to Berlin.

Speaker 18 We made huge sacrifices. We didn't step back and say, oh, we're winning this war.
Maybe it's time for us to surrender. This makes no fucking sense to me, Kara.
I can't wrap my hand around it.

Speaker 18 I don't care how many bloggers or bankers from MSNBC try to turn chicken shit into chicken salad. We fucked up.

Speaker 17 All right. On that note,

Speaker 17 speaking of fuck-ups, in other Trump administration updates, President Trump has granted pardons to an array of people accused of trying to overturn the 2020 election, including former lawyer and former mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani, who's next, Julane Maxwell.

Speaker 17 This is just, by the way, most of his judgments are in state courts, so don't worry, Rudy will be paying for the rest of his life. But But

Speaker 17 they're pre-giving people all these because they're expecting to lose and they're expecting more problems, like Sidney Powell, all the others.

Speaker 17 As I told you, several Trump administration people who are rather pleasant at lunch, let me say, although I understand they're terrible snakes, as Curtis said,

Speaker 17 were like, I'm asking for a pardon to me. And I was like, why? And they're like, just in case.

Speaker 17 They're like, even if they've done nothing, they feel that they're going to be, this was an astonishing number. This is 70 pardons.

Speaker 18 I remember once we had, when I first moved to New York, we had an instance where there was someone threatened workplace violence. And so I called a lawyer and I said, you need to bring the cops in.

Speaker 18 And he said, okay. And I'd had almost no interaction with the Manhattan DA's office or the police force.
And they said something really serious. They said, you need to be thoughtful about this.

Speaker 18 And we'll come if you call us. That's our job.
But once you get the law involved, it is a crude, blunt instrument that lacks nuance.

Speaker 18 And that always stuck with me because when you think about the law, there are a lot of people who get off scot-free and shouldn't.

Speaker 18 And I'm bothered by the idea of these pardons of these people who are criminal. I think it's corrupt.
I think it sends the wrong signal.

Speaker 18 What I'm more worried about is that there are somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000 people who have files under clemency review, where somebody from the Freedom Project or another worthwhile organization has said that because of the crudeness of the law, you have people behind bars who, quite frankly, stole a car antenna.

Speaker 18 And because it was their third strike,

Speaker 18 they've served 30 years of a life sentence. And there are a bevy of really talented, wonderful legal professionals working on these clemency cases.

Speaker 18 And now all of those have been shoved aside because all of our resources are trying to figure out how to let... out basically this orgy of corruption of people who are favorable to the administration.

Speaker 18 So yeah, these criminals getting out, that bothers me. What bothers me more is it's distracting attention and resources from the tens of thousands of people

Speaker 18 who are worthy of a real thoughtful examination around clemency.

Speaker 18 This is made a mockery of a really wonderful component of our justice system where we recognize the judicial system is a crude, blunt tool

Speaker 16 and occasionally we got it wrong.

Speaker 17 It's a pay-per-flay kind of thing, obviously. And they're letting out some pretty heinous people.

Speaker 17 And if they let out Jelaine Max, well, I don't,

Speaker 17 me and Curtis are going down to Texas.

Speaker 17 That's all I have to say. She's a monster.
She's a monster.

Speaker 17 Anyway, we need to take another break, everyone. When we come back, we'll talk about women ruining the workplace.

Speaker 1 Support for the show comes from Odo.

Speaker 3 Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 9 One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 6 Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business.

Speaker 20 This is where Odoo comes in.

Speaker 2 It's the only business software you'll ever need.

Speaker 5 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 7 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

Speaker 22 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

Speaker 10 And the best part is that Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 25 It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Speaker 23 Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

Speaker 27 It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters: running your business.

Speaker 11 Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you?

Speaker 15 Try ODU for free at odo.com. That's odoo.com.

Speaker 17 Scott, we're back in Brooklyn.

Speaker 17 The New York Times is getting heat for a piece,

Speaker 17 a Ross Duthut opinion piece, conversation, Did Women Ruin the Workplace? My wife calls him Ross asshat, but that's not neither here nor there.

Speaker 17 The title has been changing, has changed, has changed, I think, three times.

Speaker 17 It's now Did Liberal Feminism Ruin the Workplace, but not before a lot of memeing.

Speaker 17 They keep changing the headline, which is hysterical, including one person on threads that joked that the Times had changed the headline again to did liberal feminism rune slapping a prod on the caboose.

Speaker 17 That made me laugh.

Speaker 17 I love the word caboose. Can I slap you on the caboose?

Speaker 18 As if you don't already, little saucy Minx.

Speaker 17 Okay.

Speaker 17 Scott, I thought I listened to the entire thing and the two people he interviewed, he did a terrible job, FYI, as an interviewer.

Speaker 17 It was an insecure and unfunny interview, but and badly done in general, but as a professional. But the people he interviewed were like, they just cannot stop talking about woke.

Speaker 17 They are unqualified to talk about it. They were as reductive as it gets.
They were a mile wide and a foot deep. It was terrible.
The whole thing was terrible as a piece of content.

Speaker 17 That said, it attracted a lot of attention. But Scott, did I ruin the workplace?

Speaker 17 What did you think about this? I don't think you're paying any attention to it, but I don't know.

Speaker 18 Mike, the companies I've started, I mean, in San Francisco and New York,

Speaker 18 27 of the 35 people who've become, I did the analysis, who have become millionaires from my companies were either LGBTQ or women.

Speaker 18 I started, and I realized I'm virtue signaling, but it wasn't intentional. It wasn't like I thought I needed to advance people of a certain group.

Speaker 18 An unlock in the early 90s when I started my first company was giving some very talented people who had exited the corporate workforce some flexibility, which drew in a disproportionate number of women.

Speaker 18 So I don't,

Speaker 18 you know, I don't, I feel like the marketplace is actually working here. 47%

Speaker 18 of our full-time workers are female.

Speaker 18 C-level executives have gone from 18% to 27% female in the last 10 years, meaning in about two decades, 110% are going to be female. I mean, it's on the right trajectory.

Speaker 18 I want to be clear. I don't.

Speaker 18 I don't think it's, I'm not sure it's ever going to be 50-50. And I think equality of opportunity does not always equal equality of outcomes.

Speaker 18 But I've said this, and I realize I'm pandering a little bit, but I believe this.

Speaker 18 I think the best thing, I think a lot about struggling young men and the lack of economic opportunity and how it creates a disproportionate impact on their self-esteem. And also it creates a lot of

Speaker 18 stress in the home because I still do think our society puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on men to be economically viable.

Speaker 18 And I think the best thing we could do for young men right now would be universal child care. Because if you think about, I've unfortunately gone down this rabbit hole.

Speaker 18 If you walk into a morgue, five of the people who've died by suicide, four are men. And the zone, quote unquote, of self-harm among men is most prevalent the year after they get divorced.

Speaker 18 And young people get divorced. By the way, 70% of divorce filings are by women.

Speaker 18 And young people get divorced not because of infidelity or lack of shared values, but because because of economic strain.

Speaker 18 And if you want to live in a place like New York, or if you're really aggressive and you want to be in a high-cost city, the reality is you probably need to have a dual-income home.

Speaker 18 And not having childcare, affordable childcare, just puts tremendous stress on the marriage, which disproportionately... in my view, impacts actually, or as much, men.

Speaker 18 Because what the research shows is despite the cartoon of a woman in her 30s who didn't find romantic love and is crying and listening to Melissa Etheridge looking out the window. Oh my God.

Speaker 18 With cats.

Speaker 17 It's Taylor Swift now, but go ahead.

Speaker 18 That is a cartoon. There's really wonderful research that is pretty conclusive, and it's the following.
Men need relationships more than women.

Speaker 18 So if you want to invest and lift up men, young men who are struggling, quite frankly, you want to remove economic anxiety from families such that they stay together.

Speaker 18 And probably the easiest way to do that, which would create scale and affordability, would be to become the last or finally join the other G6 or the G7 and have universal child care.

Speaker 18 So I think we need to frame it not as a woke thing, not as a female thing, but as something that would really help.

Speaker 17 Or a binary thing, because it's always this binary thing. And I think that creates natural fighting, right? That we're in this.
struggle.

Speaker 17 Now, absolutely, throughout my career, let me just say, as, you know, I tell you things and you're like, I didn't know that sometimes.

Speaker 17 Definitely as a woman, you face all kinds of fucking nonsense every day of the week. When I came back from my pregnancy, I was sort of the top tech reporter at the Wall Street Journal.

Speaker 17 And I'm not going to name this editor, but because he's retired and probably dead,

Speaker 17 possibly dead.

Speaker 17 And I think, I think dead, actually.

Speaker 17 And he said, so you're going to need more time. He said that to me, like, you're going to need more time now.
And I said, for what?

Speaker 17 I need silence. And I was like, what do I need more time for? What's changed? And he's silent.

Speaker 17 And I said, you have three children and you didn't need more time did you why would i need more time what's their business of what time i need and he sort of stared at me and couldn't deal with it and i said if you say this to another woman again i will sue your

Speaker 17 life back to yesterday like you know what i mean like so it was a really interesting moment so we dealt with all kinds of nonsense but to set it up as this woman man thing to me is like wildly offensive like wildly and not just wildly offensive because i'm not like one of these people who gets particularly offended what it is is it's just just stupid.

Speaker 17 It's just, it doesn't make a better workplace.

Speaker 18 But that applies to the other side of the argument, and that is

Speaker 18 the genders have done a great job of convincing themselves it's the other gender's fault. Right.

Speaker 18 And if you look at, for example, Title IX, when it was 40-60,

Speaker 18 male, excuse me, female to male in colleges, and we recognized colleges as a tremendous upward lubricant for income inequality, we weighed in with Title IX.

Speaker 18 And when Title IX was passed, 97% of our elected representatives were male, which is sexism itself, But it also shows it's not men against women. It's what I'd call liberal versus illiberal thoughts.

Speaker 18 There are a lot of women who support the patriarchy. 54% of white women voted for Trump.
So this isn't about men versus women.

Speaker 18 The greatest alliance in history is the alliance between men and women, and I would argue specifically liberal men and liberal women.

Speaker 18 But we keep couching it as though men are against this and women are for it. And all men are illiberal and all women are liberal.

Speaker 16 That's just not true.

Speaker 17 It's a team approach. approach, and I think that's dangerous.
Anyway, it was a stupid thing. I watched it for you.
Don't. It's stupid.

Speaker 17 A couple of quick things, and then we're going to get to audience questions. The Supreme Court just turned down a request to consider overturning its landmark decision to legalize same-sex marriage.

Speaker 17 The court declined the petition filed by Kim Davis, the former Kentucky county clerk, who refused to issue same-sex, too bad, Kim, same-sex licenses because of her religious beliefs.

Speaker 17 She has to now pay the gay couple $365,000 for her thing.

Speaker 17 The good news, and by the way, can I just say in the coverage of the media, it's not gay marriage, it's marriage. So like, let's just, it's the law of the land.

Speaker 17 The good news now is we don't need to get married now, Scott. I thought we might have to.
So let's look at a pic. This isn't my opportunity.
Let's look at a pic of my lovely wife in the before.

Speaker 17 That's our second date.

Speaker 17 I know. She's really good looking.

Speaker 16 So hold on.

Speaker 16 So

Speaker 18 my understanding is lesbians get divorced at a much greater rate. So did you bring a U-Haul to your second day?

Speaker 16 We look good. No, we didn't.

Speaker 18 Straight couples get married for kids, gay couples for aesthetics. Lesbian couples get married for that mid-century modern couch they found on Pinterest.

Speaker 18 And

Speaker 18 when they get divorced, who gets the couch? Who gets the Subaru? It's who has the loyalty card name at REI?

Speaker 17 We get along very well compared to straight people. My ex-wife is amazing.
Her name's Megan Smith. She's terrific.

Speaker 17 How it ended with this second date. Go.

Speaker 17 That's our four beautiful children. Also with Megan.

Speaker 17 That's Louis, Alex, who's nine feet tall.

Speaker 17 Lesbian, some very tall children.

Speaker 18 Can I tell my really nice marriage story?

Speaker 16 Yeah, okay, go ahead.

Speaker 18 So I was living in San Francisco, lovely woman, my wife, and I came to New York. I'd never been here before, and people were drinking till 4 a.m.

Speaker 18 and trying to figure out a way to party and make more money. And I went back and said, I want a divorce.
You can have all of our friends.

Speaker 18 True story.

Speaker 17 Does she still talk to you?

Speaker 18 We're good friends. She was like.

Speaker 17 Anyway, we can't get married now. I know you're disappointed.
What's that? Are you disappointed we can't get married?

Speaker 16 Because I would have had to marry you. We can get married.
No.

Speaker 18 What is it, not Utah?

Speaker 16 We'll move to Utah.

Speaker 17 No, we're not moving to Utah.

Speaker 16 There's no.

Speaker 16 I like Amanda.

Speaker 17 We are are never getting married.

Speaker 18 You keep, this is her thing. She keeps claiming we'll never have sex, and yet she brings it up every seven fucking minutes.
Seriously. Seriously.

Speaker 17 I would have to take so much ketamine. It would be like so much ketamine.

Speaker 18 It's like a taffy pull at this point. Just don't worry about it.

Speaker 16 Anyway.

Speaker 16 Anywho, we're moving on.

Speaker 17 Can I ask you a last question? We're going to take questions from the audience now, but

Speaker 17 who is your... Scott has a book called Notes on Being a Man.
It's number one on Amazon. We're hoping it's the number one book.
We gave away some at the beginning.

Speaker 17 Besides me, who is your male role model?

Speaker 17 Obviously me.

Speaker 18 I get asked that a lot. I don't have a good answer.

Speaker 16 I think there's...

Speaker 18 You know, the dude that gets up, works hard, absorbs more complaints than he gives, tries to create surplus value, notices people,

Speaker 18 good citizen, good patriot.

Speaker 18 There's fantastic role models.

Speaker 17 How about in your life?

Speaker 18 In my life?

Speaker 18 You know,

Speaker 18 I had a lot of nice men

Speaker 18 when

Speaker 18 I was clear I became, or when people noticed it was just me and my mom. I had a lot of nice men get involved in my life.

Speaker 18 I had a guy across the hall come across and say, hey, me and my girlfriend are going horseback riding. Do you want to come with us? And he took me horseback riding.

Speaker 18 I had a coach get involved in my life. I had a scout troop leader.
I was a Boy Scout. I wasn't very cool as a young person.
I know that's hard to imagine.

Speaker 18 Buy me my baseball equipment because he could just pick up that we didn't have a lot of money. I had a lot of wonderful, so not celebrities, but I had a lot of really wonderful men in my life.

Speaker 18 And this is sort of a call out and an ask.

Speaker 18 The single point of failure for when a boy comes off the tracks is when he loses a male role model. There's a lot of research, and that is

Speaker 18 we have more single-parent homes than any country in the world, and it's always the mom. They're

Speaker 18 82% to 88% of the time. And what's interesting is, girls in single-parent homes have the same outcomes, same rates of college attendance, same income.

Speaker 18 Whereas boys, the moment he loses a male role model through death, divorce, or abandonment, at that moment becomes more likely to be incarcerated and graduate from college.

Speaker 18 And so getting men involved in a young boy's life is absolutely critical. And unfortunately, men my age and men in general aren't stepping up.

Speaker 18 And as someone who mentors young men, what I can tell you is that it is so easy to add value to a young man's life. They make such terrible decisions.

Speaker 18 And just, I literally had to convince a kid 48 hours ago that he cannot survive on pineapple juice and creatine.

Speaker 18 And

Speaker 18 you just start asking a series of questions and just hanging out. And just if they see that a good man trying to live a virtuous life sees value in him, it's a huge difference.
Absolutely.

Speaker 18 In some, they're just good men everywhere. We just need to step up.
If we want better men, we need to be better men. Apply to be a big brother.

Speaker 17 Yeah, I would agree. So just me,

Speaker 17 I'm your big dick. I'll give you my list.

Speaker 16 Who's your list?

Speaker 17 Louis Swisher. Your son.
Alex Swisher. Your other son.
Saul Swisher, though he's on the bubble today.

Speaker 17 No, Saul Swisher. She's just four.
He's turning four on Sunday. Happy birthday, Saul.

Speaker 17 My brothers, my two brothers.

Speaker 18 I know one better than the other, but they're both.

Speaker 16 Both my brothers, Jeff and David.

Speaker 17 My nephew's here. He's amazing.
Will Swisher is an astonishing young man.

Speaker 17 And

Speaker 17 Walt Musberg and you, I have to say. You're one of my,

Speaker 17 you've done a lot for my kids, actually. For my old, especially Alex.
He's been, Scott doesn't bury about it, but he's been an astonishing help to him.

Speaker 17 Alex really looks up to him, even more than me, which is really irritating. He's always like, you know what Scott said this week? I'm like, yeah, but I kind of said that.

Speaker 17 And he's like, yeah, but Scott, like, he says it. So it's really important and it changed his life for sure.

Speaker 18 Just a comment on that. I don't think masculinity or femininity are sequestered to people born as males, as females.
I think Kara demonstrates fantastic masculinity.

Speaker 18 I've said before, most of my close male friends are very feminine. I'm drawn to men who are more nurturing.
And so when I think of masculinity, I think it can be an outstanding code and

Speaker 18 kind of guardrails for a young man who is more likely to feel easier leaning into those attributes.

Speaker 18 But these are wonderful attributes, masculinity and femininity, that can be adopted, are not sequestered to anyone born as male or female. The point of my book is young men

Speaker 18 need guardrails and sort of a code. This can be a tremendous code.
And then we need to celebrate both femininity and masculinity. In my view, there's no such thing as toxic masculinity.

Speaker 18 There's cruelty, there's criminal behavior, and there's abuse. Those couldn't be any less masculine.

Speaker 18 Let's celebrate the wonderful attributes of being a provider, a protector, and a procreator, and lift our young men up and ask them to get more involved and really use masculinity as a code, which requires a commitment and discipline and generosity and a kindness practice.

Speaker 18 But let's stop demonizing it because I think there's a lot of young men out there that feel absolutely lost and are getting a series of mixed messages and quite frankly, just don't know how to behave.

Speaker 17 All right. And that's Scott Calley.
You should read his book. It's great.
So we need to take another quick break. And when we come back, we're going to take questions from the audience.

Speaker 17 So bring some good ones. Last night in Boston, two people, there was a marriage proposal.
So you better keep up here, Brooklyn. All right.
She said yes, by the way.

Speaker 1 Support for the show comes from Odo.

Speaker 3 Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 9 One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 6 Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business.

Speaker 20 This is where Odoo comes in.

Speaker 2 It's the only business software you'll ever need.

Speaker 5 ODU is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 7 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

Speaker 22 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

Speaker 10 And the best part is that Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 25 It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Speaker 23 Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

Speaker 27 It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters: running your business.

Speaker 11 Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you?

Speaker 15 Try Odoo for free at odo.com. That's odoo.com.

Speaker 17 Scott, we're back recording live from New York City in the lovely King's Theater in Brooklyn. This is an amazing audience.
We're going to get to audience questions and we're excited to answer them.

Speaker 17 You're going to come down to the left or the right of the aisles. Please be considerate and keep them very short because we want to get to as we try to answer all the questions.

Speaker 17 You can ask anything you want, but should be short is what I'll ask you, so I will cut you off. So let's start.
Let's go. Hey, Scott and Kara.
I'm so grateful to be here. Julia from Philadelphia.
Why?

Speaker 17 Love seems to be in the air.

Speaker 17 I left you a voicemail asking for some marriage advice for my friend Meg here, big fan, who just got engaged. Oh, wow.
To who?

Speaker 17 To Dane, also a pivot lister and a fellow tech worker, SAS, works on websites, a salesperson. And they met at work, which seems to be

Speaker 16 one of the places to meet.

Speaker 18 One in three relationships begin at work, and 99.9% are consensual.

Speaker 17 So marriage advice. I don't know, Scott.
I mean, both of us have been divorced, so I don't suspect we're the best experts.

Speaker 17 I feel like I

Speaker 17 don't act like me sometimes, I guess.

Speaker 17 I would say probably kindness and

Speaker 17 it's called active listening, I think, like not like listening.

Speaker 17 I know, but it's correct. I know.

Speaker 18 This is why lesbians have a higher rate of divorce because they're both listening.

Speaker 16 No, I'm both listening.

Speaker 17 No, no, what I mean is.

Speaker 18 Trust me, dudes. Just don't listen.

Speaker 17 okay I don't have any advice except really

Speaker 17 I'm still waiting for the calendar environment where my ex-wife of 20 years says we need to talk okay what I think you should do is be kinder to your spouse I just I feel like I could be a lot kinder

Speaker 17 and sometimes I get like busy or or whatever and I think some days I really have got to think harder about being kinder with Beta Can I give advice to the dude I'm not qualified to give advice to you is it okay if I give advice to your fiancé the husband is he

Speaker 18 I've given three best man speeches. They're always the same.

Speaker 18 Here's my advice. Three things.
One,

Speaker 18 and this is the biggest unlock in my life. Put away the scorecard.
Decide what kind of husband you want to be and

Speaker 18 live to that benchmark. Don't keep score.
Don't think, oh, her parents were in town and I spent time with her dad. She needs to spend time with my dad.
I did this.

Speaker 18 Just decide what kind of husband you want to be and hold yourself to that standard because you will always naturally inflate your contribution and diminish theirs.

Speaker 18 So just say, put a vision for yourself. This is the kind of husband I want to be and hold yourself to that standard.
Two, always express sexual desire and affection. Sex and affection say,

Speaker 18 I choose you and you are singular. And regardless of the fact we're in Brooklyn, I'm going to say it.
I think women want to be wanted. I think sex and affection are wonderful.

Speaker 18 And the third thing, and this is probably the most important, never

Speaker 18 let a woman be cold or hungry. Pashminas and power bars at all times.

Speaker 16 All right. That's so spat.

Speaker 17 Thank you for that question. And good luck.
Good luck. We think it's great.

Speaker 17 We love marriage because we've done it so much between us.

Speaker 16 Right here.

Speaker 17 Hello. Thank you for doing this wonderful live show.
I flew from Miami to come see you guys.

Speaker 16 Oh, wow. Thank you.

Speaker 17 So, mine is a parenting questions. We'll come to Miami next.
We'll come to you. Please.
So, parenting questions, slightly different for each of you.

Speaker 17 Kara, I have a five-year-old Julumbia, a little girl at home with my husband.

Speaker 17 How are you? Are you doing anything different with your little girl? And by the way, my favorite host that you've ever had on your podcast was your son. What a wonderful, thoughtful boy.

Speaker 17 And so, are you doing anything different between the two groups of kids and now a girl?

Speaker 17 And for Scott, I've heard you say a few times that you would have loved to have a girl if you would have had a girl. Is there anything that you think you would have done different?

Speaker 17 Yeah, he still could.

Speaker 17 I thought about this a lot.

Speaker 17 I thought this about when we had a daughter. I have two older sons and a younger son.

Speaker 17 And first of all, she runs the fucking show, like of all of them. She runs all the boys.

Speaker 17 She has a lot of what they call executive function.

Speaker 17 And she's also, what's incredible is all my kids, everyone's like.

Speaker 17 uh all your my kids are all so cisgendered it's crazy it's like i was like is there any day thems here no like she's very girly she's very very this. So I kind of just lean in with all the kids.

Speaker 17 And the only thing I worry about is how there's going to be a day when she's going to feel lesser than. I know it, right? Someone's going to say something to her.

Speaker 17 My guy, my older boys are always like, I'm the best thing ever all the time. Like they turn in a shitty essay and I go, this isn't very good.
They're like, I think it's good. And I was like, why?

Speaker 17 Because it sucks. And they had a confidence that was born of being the way the world is to them.
And so I worry a little bit about that. But one of the things I do with her is I try to,

Speaker 17 and all of them, I try to make them feel like what they're, the choices they're making are good choices and I support them. I don't run them down.
I don't tell them they're stupid.

Speaker 17 I don't like rag on them.

Speaker 17 I just feel like they're the greatest things ever. And I think they feel, and I actually think that and it's not a fake thing.
So I think I'll do this pretty much the same thing with her, although the

Speaker 17 K-pop demon hunters thing, I'm about right to fucking here with that.

Speaker 17 But Saul is the same way. And oddly enough, Saul, I wanted to put on Soda Pop for people who know, they know.

Speaker 17 And he's like, no, only the girl band. And I'm like, success.
Like, he likes the girl band, the huntrix over whatever those other ones were called.

Speaker 16 What are they called? Massage of boys.

Speaker 17 Massage of whatever. Okay, they don't like them.
Anyway, Scott.

Speaker 18 So this is a New York story, but it's not a gray one. I was living in faculty housing at NYU, two kids under the age of three.
And I've always been very, very anxious economically.

Speaker 18 I didn't grow up with money. It's just something that's always haunted me, like a fear of not having money.
And my

Speaker 18 three going on four-year-old applied to seven different preschools and for the right to pay $58,000 to play with blocks.

Speaker 18 And we applied to seven schools. At the time, my son was speech delayed, and the story ends well.
He's now, you know, doing exceptionally well. But he got rejected from all seven schools.

Speaker 18 And I remember thinking, like, I've been single and an entrepreneur my whole life. I'm used to rejection, but not for my four-year-old.

Speaker 18 And we left the city and moved to Miami, actually just north of there, Del Rey Beach, where we cut our cost of living in half.

Speaker 18 But that was one of the reasons I didn't want to have more kids was I, we had two wonderful little boys, and I was economically, not strained, but economically anxious.

Speaker 18 And it's one of my biggest regrets.

Speaker 18 I didn't know at that time i would end up having more money but um i really my biggest regret and my partner wants to strangle me because she wanted a third and i said no we let's cash out while we're ahead but i yeah if i are you the same way i really wish i'd had more kids i have four

Speaker 17 yes i actually wish i had more kids i do i wish i had gotten pregnant a second time i had louie um and i love being pregnant so

Speaker 18 60 of 30 year olds 40 years ago used to have a kid in the house now it's 27 i don't think it's it's because young people don't want kids. I think it's because they're responsible.

Speaker 18 And I think, I don't want to have the economic strain that this inflation economy

Speaker 18 that keeps transferring money from young to old. But

Speaker 18 I don't have a lot of regrets. I've had a charmed life.
I really regret not having a third.

Speaker 16 Yeah.

Speaker 17 I wish I had six kids. I do.
I'd like a Brady Bunch for sure. And then all I know is I'm thrilled that I have one more child than J.D.
Vance. But

Speaker 17 he like lectured me on how liberals don't believe in the future. And I was like, Well, you have half the kids I do at the time, so I believe twice as much.

Speaker 17 And if you need any help, lesbians are good at having children. Go ahead.

Speaker 18 Hi, I'm Yossi from Mexico,

Speaker 16 and you guys rock.

Speaker 18 My question is: given the negative sentiment around AI, and like it seems like we're kind of sleepwalking into our Mageddon,

Speaker 16 why are we actually doing that?

Speaker 18 That's number one. Okay.
And two, what is the steelman case for optimism in this AI-driven world? That's great. Sorry, that is not like we're going to cure cancer kind of thing.

Speaker 16 That's a great question.

Speaker 17 I interviewed Jeff Hinton today for about two hours. So he is obviously the godfather of the AI.
He's been calling. He's not a Doom scroller about Doomer, but I interviewed him for a long time today.

Speaker 17 And he's, of course, the one that's in his Nobel Prize. He won for his essentially pushing AI forward.

Speaker 17 He talked about he's been the one warning, and it was quite a dire prediction, largely because he's been asked about it.

Speaker 17 I think my big issue is why is it being run by seven companies of homogeneous nature, of huge power, driven by politics and driven by the ability to hand Donald Trump money to build this ridiculous, grotesque ballroom?

Speaker 17 This is not how we should be running AI.

Speaker 17 And so, one of the things he said that struck me, and I'll just leave you with that. There's all kinds of things.
We should have all kinds of regulations and laws.

Speaker 17 It will not hinder us against China to have basic guardrails about things. We don't want killer drones.
Probably agree on that, right?

Speaker 17 That autonomous killer drones. We don't want AI to be able.

Speaker 17 He was talking about getting the stuff we're in alignment with globally, we should start passing rules about. And there's dozens of things we're all in alignment for.

Speaker 17 The things we won't be in alignment are weaponry, are misinformation, because China kind of wants it. We kind of want it, right?

Speaker 17 We want to be able to misinform each other's populace in order to win whatever war we're in.

Speaker 17 And one of the things he said is the thing thing I would like to have happen, and it was really interesting that he said this, was a maternal,

Speaker 17 not AI going to kill us. AI is going to try to control us.
The AI is going to try to take control, all of which could happen, by the way. And he's just laying it out.

Speaker 17 We've got to build an AI that has a maternal,

Speaker 17 he used the word maternal, which was really interesting. It has a maternal sense.
And he says, the one relationship we should think about is a mother and a baby, right?

Speaker 17 And so we're the baby and AI is the mother.

Speaker 17 And he said, that's a relationship where the baby controls the mother for all kinds of hormonal, all kinds of parental reasons, all kinds of emotional reasons.

Speaker 17 We have to train the AI to think of us as the baby and they will do anything to take care of us. And I thought that was, it's totally possible.

Speaker 17 And the stuff, I'm working on a secret CNN documentary, which I always call it the secret one, but it's coming out in April.

Speaker 17 And it's great. And it's about longevity.
And one of the things, AI in healthcare is going to be mind-blowingly amazing. You will not die of cancer because of AI.

Speaker 17 So so many of the applications are astonishing. And so many of them are disturbing.

Speaker 17 And I think Jeff is one of the great thinkers that we have to do it without having to pay off Donald fucking Trump on AI, that we again, as citizens, have to rise up around safety.

Speaker 17 around guardrails, especially with young kids. I've interviewed a lot of these parents whose kids have committed suicide, I believe, because of the AI chatbots.

Speaker 17 And so we have to start at a place like of safety and then move on from there. That's a long-winded answer to that.

Speaker 18 So you're smart to ask what could go right, because as a species, we have a tendency to catastrophize because we want to protect against the downside.

Speaker 18 But from an investment or a society standpoint, the optimists over the medium and long term have vastly outperformed the pessimists.

Speaker 18 So the steel man or the what could go right optimistic view of AI is the following: and that is every technology in history has ultimately created growth in the economy.

Speaker 18 And if it's an enduring technology, it's created more jobs than it's destroyed. Everyone was convinced automation was going to decimate labor in the auto industry.

Speaker 18 And in the short run, it did clear out some jobs in the factory floor, but we didn't anticipate heated car seats or car stereos. And now there's more people working in the automotive industry.

Speaker 18 The steel man is that AI creates all this incredible margin and new opportunities in healthcare, in robotics, in senior care, and that it creates thousands of new startups that create employment.

Speaker 18 There'll be different jobs, more higher skilled. Some people will lose their job.
The biggest fear I have about AI is not something we talk a lot about, and that is loneliness. And I worry that 10%

Speaker 18 or 10 companies, which represent 20%, excuse me, 40% of the SP by market cap

Speaker 18 have unwittingly but

Speaker 18 observably connected the success of our economy right now. Our economy is a giant bet on AI right now.
If we didn't have those 10 companies, NASDAQ would be flat, GDP would be flat.

Speaker 18 So we're a giant bet on AI. And essentially, these companies have an economic interest, invested interest, in evolving a new asocial, asexual species of young male.

Speaker 18 And I worry that with synthetic lifelike porn, and relationships and friends and mentors, we're going to slowly but surely start to sequester young people, specifically young men who are having trouble establishing relationships, are more DOPA aggressive, that we're going to continue to see a trend along the following.

Speaker 18 Men aged 20 to 30 now in America are spending less time outdoors than prison inmates.

Speaker 18 And I worry slowly but surely you're going to stop seeing men, young men at things like this because they think, I'm not attaching to work. I don't have money.

Speaker 18 I'm not willing to endure the rejection and the effort and to demonstrate excellence to establish a romantic partnership. And I have what feels like 4K lifelike porn at home.

Speaker 18 So I think we have to be very careful. No synthetic relationships for anyone under the age of 18.
I think, similar to content, any minor should have an entirely different set of AI rules.

Speaker 18 No social media for anyone under the age of 16, and no phones in schools. Loneliness and sequestering young people from society is our biggest risk of AI.
All right.

Speaker 17 Thank you so much for all your questions.

Speaker 16 We love, we love, love, love our fans.

Speaker 17 Now we're going to say goodbye. You can catch selected shows from this tour on YouTube and in your podcast feeds.
That's all the time we've got for today. Scott, read us out.

Speaker 18 Today's show was produced by Larry Naman, Joy Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Your Todd entered this episode.
Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Bros.

Speaker 18 Miya Severo, Dan Shalon, and Kate Gallagher. Thanks also to Trish Harnito, Kelly Schwanter, Kaylin Lynch, and Nico Alvarez.
Nisha Coraz, Vox Media, the Zegger Producer podcast.

Speaker 18 And a big shout out to the Vox Experiential team: Tara Riley, Courtney Given, Abby Aronofsky, and Kate Lynn Burla. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.

Speaker 18 Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nmag.com/slash pod.

Speaker 18 We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. My life changed dramatically to the upside with one decision.
I moved to New York. You are so lucky to be here.

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